Since Trump won and he's going to MAGA can Space Elevator please come back. We're not a cynical as we were under Obama and the election is over.Also if he was able to sticky a thread and have some sort of mod status I'd be up for that. Imagine coming to /pol/ and having a Space Elevator sticky filled with inspiring dreams about the future of mankind and scientific breakthroughs that will change life as we know it. If you support him reply with:Space Elevator please!
He had a thread about a week ago, so I know he still comes around occasionally.
>>107622370What the fuck I missed it?He needs to be able to sticky his threads. This place moves way too fucking fast now.
>>107622120Space elevator would slow the world down. Increase wobble
PLEASE
>>107623359Not if you build two exactly opposite globally and erect them simultaneously.
>>107622120SUMMON THE ELEVATOR
>>107622120>>107624452I am in agreement.
>>107622120>inb4 muh flat earth
GET THE FUCK BACK HERE PLEASE
How the fuck would that work? Building the equivalent of a skyscraper to space seems a bit ludicrous if you ask me. I mean the highest we get isn't even a mile. And you want to go how high with this thing? I doubt there is even enough material to build it. And even if there was how the fuck are you going to get to and from work building it? A fucking space helicopter? No. It's silly
AFTER IT'S COMPLETED, CAN WE SHOOT THE NOGS AND MUZZIES INTO SPACE AND MAGA?
>>107624835Like thisIt's not one space elevator. It's actually a ring.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qezLhypA0Y
I'll get right on to that for you, Mr Vulcan sir !
>>107622120One interesting thing about the Space Elevator concept is that it serves as a mechanism for proving whether Trump is legitimately on the side of the American people or not.Is it possible to build a space elevator today?Yes:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qezLhypA0Y [Embed]The key idea is the Orbital Ring version of the space elevator, not the geosynchronous tether concept you are familiar with.See, for example, Paul Birch's writings:http://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-I.pdfThe orbital ring only requires tethers about 300 kilometers long which is technically feasible with common material like steel, but ridiculously straightforward with better and already available material like kevlar.
>>107625186There are some important questions. First, how much would it cost to do something like this?We need to send about 160 million kilograms of material into space (See Birch's boot strap estimates in part 2: http://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-II.pdf)We have rockets available at $2000/kg costs to LEO today in "mass production" mode, which is only about 10-20 launches per year. Compared with the couple thousand launches necessary for a space elevator, $2000 is an unreasonably high upper bound for launch costs.We also need to include the cost of materials. A space elevator is about 98% steel and aluminum, 1% kevlar, and 1% other such as superconducting magnets. Most of the mass (98%) cost around $1/kg, with an average cost per kilogram of no more than about $10 per kilogram.Summing the above up, we get about $430 billion in launch costs plus another $1-2 billion in material costs.In other words, we can have a space elevator for less than $450 billion - significantly less than one year worth of DoD spending, one bank bailout, many times less than a variety of pointless wars, etc. This is well within our reach financially in other words.
>>107624835We can build much higher than that. We just don't have a reason to.There is some discussion in the Arab oil rich states of building a 2 and even 3 mile skyscraper. The main problem is not a matter of engineering, its of filling the building up with useful stuff and getting people moved quickly and in mass between floors.
>>107625246What do we get in return for this $450 billion investment?Virtually unlimited value. For example, with a space elevator we can reliably launch our nuclear waste into the sun. We've spent $100 billion building a waste repository in Nevada, but it was ultimately decided not to even use it. Now it costs only a dollar or two per kilogram to get rid of all of the nuclear waste in the world.Second, we have immediate access to viable asteroid mining industry. Because the cost of delivering payloads to LEO drops to about $1/kilogram, we can not retrieve asteroids with trillions of dollars worth of minerals for mere tens millions of dollars in addition to having an easy viable way of returning those resources back to the surface.We acquire the ability to deploy profitable solar power in orbit above cloud cover and with the ability to return said power back to the surface with near zero loss by running power transmission cables down the elevator.Just how profitable?With increased luminosity in space, enhanced exposure time, and the ability to deliver base loads, solar panels pay for themselves in only 1-2 years while having a 20 year life time.In other words, if you put $5 trillion of solar panels into space, you get your $5 trillion back by the end of year two and a $5 trillion income stream each year thereafter.In other words, the US could cut everyone's taxes, both personal and business, income, capital, death, or otherwise, all to 0%, not even cut any benefits or current spending, and pay off the national debt within a decade.
>>107622395I know you
>>107625265It should already be obvious that the entirety of the political debate spectrum is cointelpro.Are taxes too high or too low? Irrelevant, we don't actually need taxes.Is social spending bankrupting us? Irrelevant, we can retire the national debt without cutting spending all while having no tax whatsoever.What does this have to do with taking the red pill?We've had the technological ability to undertake such a project for decades.That means all the squabbling you have heard your entire life, money, debt, spending, taxes, scarcity, whatever, is all bullshit. Not only is it bullshit, anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the world has known that it is all bullshit for all of this time.In other words, once you come to understand the such a project is and has been technically feasible for decades, you have to reevaluate many things.Why is there nothing of this in the conspiracy media? They are not really trying to expose or solve any problems. One hundred percent of it is cointelpro. From the Young Turks to Infowars or whatever, they are all completely full of shit because solutions to our problems not only exist, are easy to carry out, but this has been the case for a very long time.Similarly, you now know that 20%+ annual GDP growth is possible. If Trump gives you 3-4% instead of Obama's 2%, he is simply working with the establishment to try to placate and subvert a rising tide. If we see the easily achievable 20%+ growth rates, it is at least possible that he isn't a subversive. Anything less and you know he is a fraud.
>>107623359No, the end of the elevator will be in geosynchronous orbit, so that's wrong.
>>107625006Meme calculations. Do you have any possible idea what multiple steel towers the size of what was put forth were would cost? We're talking on the order of tens of trillions of dollars at least, multiples of the world's liquid GDP, especially when you factor in how much steel/whatever material used would skyrocket in price due to the ridiculous and unheard of demand generated.
>>107623359because of the change in angular momentum? why would it increase wobble?
>>107625265>implying there arent solar arrays with 2-3 year payback that dont require 5 trillion in capex>implying we need asteroids in 2017
>>107622120He is not coming back.>>107622370Was that not an impostor just having a "space elevator" thread, if not pls gib archive link.>>107623359>>107624835>>107624979lurk more
>>107625265> $5 trillion of solar panelsAnd what exactly do you plan on doing with this energy generated? At the moment there's no infrastructure whatsoever to allow us to constructively use it. It will just go to waste on power stations in space or go into batteries of spacecraft. Do you plan on beaming the energy down to earth? Well that's trillions of dollars worth of infrastructure we'd have to build in the first place, not to mention the potential accidents of frying large portions of the earth and killing untold numbers of people by mis-aiming a microwave beam by tenths of a degree.
>>107625246Omg yaaaaaaaaa! I love you so much! Please get a mod login and make a weekly news update for us!Yayayayayaya you give us dreams and hope!
Main problem I see is this will be a huge terrorism target.
>>107626016That's why we gotta kill all the muzzies first.
>>107626016Not hard to work around, considering the investment would be so mandatorily huge many nations would be involved in the construction process and after completion would likely provide an entire military fleet to defend it from land, sea, air, cyber, etc. attacks.
>>107626016just imagine the cost, government projects always go over-budget.But it wold be pretty easy to make if it was made in a disguises as an asteroid replant or some shit, heck i think in today's world even crowd funding is a possibility, you could use the orbit shifting elements as pro asteroid protection means. When the normies start to eat it up it wold be completed in a decade or less.
>>107625435I think we'll hit 8% growth for the first time in a long time. With all our energy potential being unleashed and some regulatory rollbacks.But we really need to keep pushing the limits of science in order to change the world and economy, like we did in the 1990's with the .com explosion.We're so distracted as a public with social media that when a probe lands on Mars or something no one even pays much attention. We used to be captivated by these things. Why can't we have a permanent moon base? Or walk on Mars?
>>107625980First off, your post contains obviously wrong information, i.e., the need to beam power back down. With a space elevator in hand, you have the ability to connect the power grid to space based solar arrays.Second, there are endless applications for additional energy in the economy. Laser ablation of waste can solve our trash / recycling power. Abundant energy means we can shift farming indoors and prevent nutrient run off into the oceans, reversing a worrisome trend of increasingly depleted soil around the world. We can name countless pressing problems for mankind that are solved by higher energy throughput in the economy.Alternatively, we can think of the benefit in terms of cheaper energy. With virtually unlimited high EROEI sources of power, anything with energy as an input (your home, car, food, gadgets, whatever) can fall in price - that is to say, you get more stuff and are better off.
>>107624835drain the water from your head.>not enough material. u fuking fool
I think he went back to mexico
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedorminey/2016/11/14/trump-space-policy-to-aim-for-mars-and-beyond/#655fadd4130atfw it may be possible in 8 years to have a justifiably reason to build a SE in the first place. This is the greatest age to be alive.
>>107626839With all that power we could afford massive amounts of salt water desalination to support the fresh water needs of future human populations.
>>107627169It could potentially make rearranging atoms (turning lead into gold etc.) Economically viable as well since the cost of the energy is the main thing holding it back$230 of power for less than $1 of gold iirc
>>107626696Building a space elevator will actually lead to a terraforming of Mars rapidly thereafter. Once you have an elevator on Earth, it is cheaper to send an elevator to Mars than it is to send a small manned mission to mars currently.Material costs for the elevator are only about $1 billion, the main expense being the $400B in rockets you need to get it into space.But, then you have cheap access to space and can put all the materials needed for an elevator on Mars into orbit for less than $2B. We can put rail guns along the orbital rings to accelerate our payloads to Mars, requiring rockets only for slowing down / insertion into Mars orbit.In other words, the few tens of billions projected as a cost to for a one time mission to Mars today could instead buy us a space elevator on Mars and therefore make colonization including return trips to Earth cheap and trivial.
>>107625552I think the towers are supposedly made out of kevlar.The guy does all the calculations. You don't even need that huge amount of raw material. It's less total steel/aluminum/kevlar than was in the world trade center. The cost is all in launching it into space.
>>107627169That is correct. Mankind's need for energy is orders of magnitude higher than current production. Most of our major problems, conflict drivers, and uncertainty about the future are all mediated by the construction of a space elevator and the moving of mankind into a much higher energy throughput economy.
>>107626839>we can shift farming indoorsphooeyFood should come form outdoors, think free range chicks etc. Plants need soil and connection to earth and natural weather. No chance to mimic this indoors.
>>107626965kek, if he was smart as he seems he probably is making some top 10ns on youtube and getting massive bux.I wonder why no anon has taken up his mantle, how hard would it be to go trough all the scientific happenings of the week and make a qucik summary of them here with sources and up beat handwriting or grim warnings
>>107627509whats the cost for clean up when muslims fly a jet into it at 400mph
>>107627423Have they worked out how to deal with wind shear forces on it? Would be a shame for a tornado or high winds to topple it.
>>107627540This is simply not true. Indoor farms present obvious benefits like the ability to prohibit undesired cross-pollination due to a controlled environment, more efficient water and nutrient use (no run off), the ability to deliver the exact amount of desired sunlight on any schedule, and perhaps most importantly, you no longer need pesticides and such. Being unexposed to the outdoors, a couple of bug zapping lasers and modest decontamination protocol entering the growing ozones is more than sufficient to prevent any pest infestation.
>>107627540Look up hydroponics, aero ponics and their industrial applications.It removes the biggest restraints that have always plagued farming: lack of space and uncertainty
>>107627762Its on a barge that can relocate
>>107622120>space elevator thread>people actually discuss the feasibility of a space elevatorfucking newfags
>>107627540>Plants need soil and connection to earth and natural weather.You don't actually grow anything, do you? Without the threat of bad weather, pests, and with a perfectly controlled environment plants can thrive. You won't need to worry at all about leaf blights or other fungi. The only thing you need are pollinators, and even then most vegetables are self pollinating, or you can pollinate them with a paintbrush if need be.I've literally masturbated plants with a fucking paintbrush when I needed them to pollinate. Plants don't need shit but good soil, light, and water.
>>107627762A steel jacketed kevlar elevator has sufficient material strength to withstand placement in permanent Cat5 winds.However, even if this were not the case, it wouldn't even prevent the idea from being viable.The orbital ring can support dozens of elevators. Rather than the system being permanently locked in place (as would be the case with a ~40,000 km geosynchronous elevator), the orbital ring supports itself and the elevators can be detached and/or moved along the ring.For example, the first 20 kilometers of the elevator could be supported by an inflatable structure that is retractable. The final ~180 kilometers to the orbital ring can detach from the first 20 kilometers in the event of bad weather, the first 20 kilometers being retracted to the ground for the duration of the storm.
Even ignoring all the challenges associated with building one in the first place, I've gotta ask, what exactly makes a space elevator better than a rocket, anyways?
>>107622120This was the only tripfag I ever liked.
There is Japan Space Elevator Associationhttp://www.jsea.jp/
>>107622120It's a stupid idea.We would first need to clean up all the debris around Earth before we even consider this kind of project.Even if we did that, it's not like this would make it magically super cheap to move things to space, because it still takes the same amount of energy to move stuff up there.Not to mention keeping such a thing up there, even under ideal conditions, is unfathomable with current materials. It would be fucking huge! The elevator would be many miles high, and if connected to a larger ring, would need to encompass the earth. And to keep the whole thing in place would require massive, massive, MASSIVE support structures, many of which would have to extend far below the ocean floor, just so it can anchor the damn thing (orbits decay over time, idiots). The sheer amount of material required to make it would be staggering.Then there's the ongoing maintenance on this monstrosity.
>>107627879vertical farming all the way, baby
>>107626946What? Where are you going to get all this steel and whatever the fuck else you need. Screws and rope etc. This isn't some magicians pocket you can just pull anything out of. There probably isn't enough Steele in the entire galaxy to build this thing.
>>107627951whut
>>107627859I do not agree that indoors is better.The problem is most efficient farming systems are largerly forgotten. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160616105901.htm"A global study, led by the University of Sussex, which included anthropologists and soil scientists from Cornell, Accra, and Aarhus Universities and the Institute of Development Studies, has for the first-time identified and analysed rich fertile soils found in Liberia and Ghana.They discovered that the ancient West African method of adding charcoal and kitchen waste to highly weathered, nutrient poor tropical soils can transform the land into enduringly fertile, carbon-rich black soils which the researchers dub 'African Dark Earths'.From analysing 150 sites in northwest Liberia and 27 sites in Ghana researchers found that these highly fertile soils contain 200-300 percent more organic carbon than other soils and are capable of supporting far more intensive farming.Dr Dawit Solomon, the lead author from Cornell University, said: "What is most surprising is that in both Africa and in Amazonia, these two isolated indigenous communities living far apart in distance and time were able to achieve something that the modern-day agricultural management practices could not achieve until now."
>>107628233Why on Earth would you want access to orbit for $1 / kg instead of thousands of dollars per kilogram?Jokes aside, even if we had infinite money to waste on rockets, we would actually still want to build a space elevator. Why? Because rockets are just controlled bombs that no one has been able to build more reliable than about 97-98%.That means that a few dozen trips to space gives you >50% probability of dying on a failed rocket. On the other hand, it is a trivial exercise to parachute down given a space elevator failure, meaning that people could take hundreds or thousands of trips between the surface, space, other planets, moons, and so on with better reliability than operating a car or some other mundane and relatively safe task.Space elevators invite regular and reliable access in a way that rockets never will.
>>107628233reaching orbit is half the trip, and with a space elevator, you essentially skip this step.super duper cheap space travel, that is what this is about
>>107627762Even if it broke at the base, the whole tether is in orbit. It wouldn't topple the whole thing; rather, the part below the break would fall and the part above would rise up into an elliptical orbit, dipping back into the upper atmosphere with every subsequent perigee. Depending on the strength and safety factor of the tether, you may be able to capture and reattach it.
I'm down... was thinking today about your other post and how it's scarcity/fear that drives the way the world is and switching to abundance and love (which would help if we remove scarcity) would be a good solution. Anyway, let's do this. Where do we get started? Want to see more positive stuff on /pol/ ... we all know the world sucks, let's make it better and weaponize that autism for good.
>>107622120Main problemis the carbon nanotubes. We can only produce a fraction of an inch long ones. We would need thousands of miles of cable. Aslong as we can not figure this out there will be no space elevator.
>>107628767did they not solve that with the spider web shit?
There is no material that is strong enough, light enough, and durable enough for the construction of a space elevatorSorry mate
>>107627879Indoor farming is the future. Been saying this for years, but everyone.just kept brushing it off. I guess they're all too enamored with FUCKING RETARDED-ASS SPACE ELEVATORS!
>>107628310> because it still takes the same amount of energy to move stuff up there.This illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of why space travel is so expensive right now.When you send something to space on a rocket, what you are doing is sending 1 kilogram of payload and 100 kilograms of fuel to an elevation of say a kilometer, then 1 kilogram of payload and the remaining 99 kilograms of fuel to two two kilometers, and so on.In other words, you are paying the price to lift far more than your payload because you carry your fuel with you.With an elevator in hand, your payload fraction is easily an order of magnitude larger than any rocket can achieve and therefore your energy requirements in excess of an order of magnitude lower.
>>107626839No, you don't know what you're talking about, assuming an orbital ring made of construction grade steel, you can't beam the power down unless you incorporate a power system directly into the elevator structure, which will make it ludicrously more complicated, invalidating your idea that it will be cheap. Do you know how poor steel is for just beaming energy down? Especially steel used in industrial construction.
>>107628767Orbital ring space elevator does not require carbon nanotubes because the elevator only needs to be a few hundred rather than 40,000 kilometers long.In fact, you could build a space elevator with tapered steel using the orbital ring design. There is no reason to use steel rather than lighter materials with higher tensile strength like kevlar, but it is in principle strong enough.
>>107622120Space Baiter please!
>>107628871No. The spider web shit is not strong enough anyway and for the orbital ring we would need to carry alot of mass into space every day we would need to start multiple rockets for decades.
>>107627585JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS
The small-minded fools at NASA rejected my space escalator idea.
>>107622120Do we finally get Mobile Suits too?
>>107622395bro ur img is watermarked with the pedo symbol
Why ?Mass produced housing unregulated is needed here on earth first!
>>107628156>Without the threat of bad weather, pests, and with a perfectly controlled environment plants can thriveTotally wrong. You get biomass, sure. That's all.
>>107629061How many million tonnes would we need for a ring. It also needs to go around the earth.
>>107628992>incorporate a power system directly into the elevator structureThat's right, you just run electrical lines down the elevator and tie into the grid. It is no different than connecting solar panels on your roof into the grid. High voltage DC transmission lines exist on Earth that are over 1000 miles long, far in excess of the length of the space elevator. Easy stuff.
>>107627509Do you know how fucking expensive kevlar is? Not to mention you're completely ignoring the economic externalities associated with this. If we produce an entire space structure out of kevlar then we are literally producing more kevlar than has ever been produced on the planet by orders of magnitude. Do you know what this increased demand will do to the price of kevlar? It will increase by possibly tens of times, meaning that the rudimentary calculations can't reasonably be expected just to be trusted at face value.
>>107628468Indoors is better for the simple fact that your growing season is now "yes" instead of "sometimes." This is useful for any crop, but affords especial utility to high-margin foodstuffs like strawberries and tropical fruits.
>>107629196hell the fuck yeah
>>107629196If digits then we will by the end of the year.
>>107629251You need about 200 million kilograms of material for a small orbital ring. By 'small' we are talking about able to support ~20 different elevators around the world each with 300 kg/sec throughput capacity or 200 billion kilograms per year.
>>107629260Calm down kid literally noone here has any idea what they're talking about and we don't care
>>107628460The idea is that because a large portion of the elevator is in space it supports most of the weight enabling you to have your choice of foundations.Apparently the most feasible one is a barge in the ocean.
>>107629260A single elevator would weigh about 100,000 kilograms, not all of which is kevlar.In comparison, annual production is in excess of 50,000 tons - about 500x what we need for an elevator.As is usual, the naysayers are simply slinging outright lies to try to discredit the idea.
>>107622120DAILY REMINDER THAT /POL/ HASNT BEEN THE SAME SINCE SPACE ELEVATOR LEFT
>>107622120Fucking carbon, it doesn't work (so they say.)
>>107629257Well then you're completely lying about the costs being so cheap then, that dramatically increases the costs of the project, it's one thing to just build massive steel support structures, it's entirely another to build entirely self contained power cables. Not just this, but incorporating DC lines into the structures themselves will decrease the tensile strength of the structure overall meaning you'll need more steel or stronger, more expensive materials and the costs will further increase.
>>107622120Space Elevator please!
Well, this thread shows how new most of /pol/ is.
>>107627553wouldn't be the same due to the inevitable bias that would show through somehow
Id love to see this pretend, not very good, Space Elevator imposter arguing with a contractor about going over bid on his remodel :)
>>107628920The "Grow Local" movement is helping to agitate for food growing buildings in cities. Some hope a few skyscraper vertical farms could be operated inside cities allowing a city to actually feed itself, rather than be dependent on food being shipped in from around the country/world.
Space Elevator!
>>107629729But the increased cost would be offset by the ability (theoretically) to generate amounts of power limited only by your imagination.Profitably too
>>107629657The problems with such a giga-engineering project (the elevator isn't the problem, it's the rocket infrastructure, as you mentioned) isn't purely economical. The legal issues alone are a big deal for the contract-crazed USA.
>>107628582>$1 / kgAre you fucking high? Energy costs alone put you over $200/kg. By comparison, the propellant cost of a Falcon 9 is only around $15/kg.>Because rockets are just controlled bombs that no one has been able to build more reliable than about 97-98%.No matter which way you go about it, you're dealing with a massive amount of energy here, and very narrow margins of safety.>it is a trivial exercise to parachute down given a space elevator failureNo, it isn't. Atmospheric reentry at hypersonic speeds is only possible at a shallow reentry angle. If you fall off a space elevator from more than 1000 miles, there is no way you can possibly survive.
>>107629657You're an idiot. Do you know how little 100,000 kilograms is? Do you know how much skyscrapers weigh? The Sears Tower weighs 200,000,000 kilograms. So you're telling me a structure unimaginably larger weighs over 1,000 times less? You're talking completely out of your ass.
>>107629729Is this a joke? DC voltage transmission lines are far less than $1 million / mile, or a few hundred million dollars to tie the array into the grid on the ground. It isn't even worthy of being called a rounding error, changing the cost by something like one part in 10^7
>>107629814well at least this thread is creating some quantum level autism
>>107628128kek
>>107629325Indoors is not better, and should not be promoted as a mainstream. Read the SD link I posted above. Why are we not doing farming this way?>two isolated indigenous communities living far apart in distance and time were able to achieve something that the modern-day agricultural management practices could not achieve until now.We are not doing it this way because Big Agra, Big Money...But in general I agree that indoors techniques and know-how should be explored and maintained, as kind of a backup. Global volcanic winter, for instance, would be no fun. Indoors farming would not save all the mankind in such a case, though.
>>107629997Still giving even today
>>107629893This is one reason why no private enterprise can deliver, but an act of Congress takes care of all of these problems overnight. We use the government to build the highways in a straight line or clear the way for the Hoover dam - this is no different.
>>107625246>$2000 is an unreasonably high upper bound for launch costs.You can't just magic numbers lower.If you want cheaper access to space then you need a better system than chemical rockets.Space guns with tiny rocket motors for the last push drop the price down to what is reasonable. Your link is 35 years out of date and it's prices are crazy low even in 1983. You could raise the price by a factor of 1000 and still be low balling the true cost.
>>107624835>I mean the highest we get isn't even a mile. And you want to go how high with this thing?Because it wouldn't be raised from the ground, it would be lowered from geosynchronous earth orbit.Don't forget that geosynchronous satellites are not fixed statically in place, they spin in a figure of 8 orbit in a relatively tightly confident space.They still need propellent to keep them in a geosynchronous orbit, so the same would probably be true of a space elevator platform.It is physically and technically possible with nano-materials, but would be challenging and expensive.Still, it is the breakthrough needed to massively reduce the costs of getting supplies into orbit.Humans would still have to be shipped by rocket though as the space elevator would be weight restricted and unable to provide decent radiation shielding for a journey through the Van Allen radiation belts.
Listen fuck holes, what we need to do is build a muxh smaller elevator and launch platform that balances partially in space and partially in pur atmosphere, which is held to earth by a large carbon fiber rope. That way a cargo helicopter can fly the rocket up to the elevator and it can be raised to the launch platform, which is in space. Although i would gladly throw away all the money for this project and in exchange get tied up and brutally assfucked by anita sarkeesian while ana kasperian fucks my face with a giant black dildo
>>107629930>Energy costs alone put you over $200/kgEscape velocity of Earth is 11.2 kilometers/second, far in excess of the energy requirements to LEO.Go somewhere like wolfram alpha and type in:1/2 * (1 kg) * (11 km/s)^2 in kwh * $0.12/kwh and observe the answer of $2.09.Then come back and tell /pol/ you are sorry for lying and don't do it anymore.
>>107630066Indoor farming is a good use of excess industrial capacity, solving two problems: having giant unused empty factory space and feeding the cities to which they are on the periphery of.
>>107624979>AFTER IT'S COMPLETED, CAN WE SHOOT THE NOGS AND MUZZIES INTO SPACE AND MAGA?Waste of technology. Just wall up Detroit with all the niggers inside and let them kill each other. The last one standing would be crowned King Nigger and deported to Africa.
>>107630272Shield the people on their way up, then. Make 'em wear radiation suits. Rockets suck.
>>107628957That energy isn't lost, though. It's effectively stored as kinetic energy in the remaining propellant. And a lot of this energy in turn is subsequently transferred to the payload itself when that propellant is expended. Lrn2OberthEffect.
>>107625006>It's not one space elevator. It's actually a ring.That's just one possible design.
>>107629953not when you account for the increased other materials needed, the whole cost of this is essentially unfathomable, although it was never really serious anyway, the Space Elevator threads are just /pol/ fun so I understand this all.
>>107630377That would make a really good modern coliseum-like sport Set up cameras all over detroit and watch the endless chimpout
>>107622395>>107629218ANOTHER PIZZA THE PUZZLE
>>107629942I dropped a zero on accident converting from scientific notation. The correct figure is 8*10^6 or 8 million kilograms.
Memes aside I do wish we spent more money on exploration, deep sea and space It's about time we found some solid evidence of a meaningful existence
>>107628957If the engine driving the elevator is on the ground, it means you have to move the elevator and the entire apparatus that connects them. If the engine is on the elevator itself, then you're just carrying all the fuel with you, again. I guess you could use electricity, thus eliminating much of the weight problem, but then you'd need all that electricity, and likely a way to store it, which introduces a whole slew of other problems.Still looks like a pipe dream. Would be more efficient to build stuff in space, with materials from space, thus circumnavigating the whole gravity well issue, minus the initial launch.
>>107630613Yeah obvious bait is obvious
>>107625265>Because the cost of delivering payloads to LEO drops to about $1/kilogram, we can now retrieve asteroids with trillions of dollars worth of minerals for mere tens millions of dollarsIdiot. If it cost tens of millions of dollars to retrieve it, then it could not possibly be worth "trillions" of dollars.Economic arbitrage rules apply (cost in location x versus cost in location y + transport costs)Learn2SupplyAndDemand
>>107630203Falcon Heavy is commercially available for $2000/kg. It isn't a speculative price - it is already available. The only direction you can even argue is less than $2,000/kg, which of course would be the result of mass manufacture, but is ultimately not worth arguing over. Even at high end of $2,000/kg or more, say $10,000/kg the elevator is a no brainer.
>>107630702All of you are idiots. You can make a space elevator pulley. Technological marvel yes. Impossible no. Planetary waste goes up, space mining raw material goes down. You stupid fucks still don't understand simple machines and the concept of gravity. Thanks public education.
>>107622120Wtf I hate trump now!
>>107630736The figures come from here:>http://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-II.pdfPage 117, second column.
>>107630312https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator_economics#Cost_estimates_for_a_space_elevator>The gravitational potential energy of any object in geosynchronous orbit (GEO), relative to Earth's surface, is about 50 MJ (15 kWh) of energy per kilogram (see geosynchronous orbit for details). Using wholesale electricity prices for 2008 to 2009, and the current 0.5% efficiency of power beaming, a space elevator would require US$220/kg just in electrical costs.
>>107630312Your problem is that the labor costs is going to turn it into $100/kg or higher.Government has its own way of doing things. Most of these things don't have a damn thing to do with the job at hand. For instance, sensitivity training requirement, 4 times a year. Slips, trips, and falls prevention training, 3 or 4 times a year. Having 2% of your workforce claiming to be openly gay and/or not heterosexual. Having 18% of your work force to be primarily African America. Having 6% of your work force to be primarily "native peoples". Having 60% of your work force be female. Having at least 2% of your work force honorably discharged veterans. Etc etc etc.If you never worked for the government, directly or indirectly, you cannot imagine all the bullshit that is involve when the government is involved or the client.This only gets worse when you discuss an ORBITAL ring. Now all the nations that travels over will require all sorts of treaties and involvement, because you are "blocking" their space access, and they are "allowed" their own orbital facilities, etc etc etc.It is never the material and engineering that is against any such project. It is always the humans and the government bullshit that is in the way.
>>107630702Electricity costs of delivering 1 kilogram to orbit is about $1, 3+ orders of magnitude cheaper than rockets. This is exactly why we build a space elevator if we are a rational species.
>>107625980>And what exactly do you plan on doing with this energy generatedUse microwaves or lasers to concentrate the energy in orbit and transmit it to receiving stations on the ground.You would get power loss in the translation / transmission, but it would still be pretty cheap.Your receiver stations could be mounted outside cities in semi-urban or rural farmland areas.
Hey, wouldn't a space elevator get fucked up by all the spacejunk flying around in orbit?
>>107622120Man has reached it's critical limit this playthrough, we are past our peak and will only go backward from here. This planet must be wiped clean before galactic imperium can be established. Stop wasting your fleeting breathes on transhumanist shit and start preparing to kill everyone you love for water, band aids, and anything you can salvage before God cleanses this prison in his purifying flames.
>>107630702You use gravity you fuckwit. It's called a pulley. It's not even that hard, you can use thousands of pulleys all the way to the ground and then gravity is your engine. Quit thinking in terms of stupid and start using your fucking brain. Why the fuck would you pay for fuel when you have unlimited gravity? All you need is to set-up one space mine and then the elevator becomes free. Just because you can't think of the answer doesn't mean everyone else is retarded.
>>107631107If the space junk bits were that big we wouldn't give two shits about global warming. Not that /pol/ does either way, but you know what I mean.
>>107628416Apex kek. Is this the product of american education?
>>107630753>not understanding that that's the fucking point
>>107630753It is true that asteroid mining would reduce market costs dramatically at first until the economy expanded to meet the influx of new supply.The point is that trillions of dollars of present day value can be delivered which are not available otherwise. Of course, the economy will rapidly expand in response to cheap inputs and prices will rise in response leading to some sort of semi-equilibrium over time, but this is far from a criticism - it is precisely what we want: a rapidly expanding economy that leaves mankind better off.
WHATS the DEAL with SPACE-ELEVATORS? I mean you ride em up and up and uuUUuup but once you get to space you just keep rising! *laughtrack*
>>107631046Orbital ring doesn't lower gravity enough to make it as useful for spacecraft. Return on investment of a space elevator is far higher than the orbital ring.
atlantis 2.0 please go
>>107630975>power beamingExcept that isn't what you do when you have an elevator - you can be tied into the grid the whole time. You are off by a factor of 200 because you don't know what we are talking about, or are simply obfuscating on purpose.
>>107631076Why not use gravity of payloads being offloaded to Earth as a pulley system? Gravity is free. Why use energy that costs money?
>>107630393>Shield the people on their way up, then. Make 'em wear radiation suits. Rockets suck.Perhaps.The problem is that the initial space lift might be quite limited in weight (limit of nano-technology, limit of crawler technology), so might be only 50kg payload per trip.Equally, what happens if the crawler breaks down on the way up? Rescue might be impossible, unless they also have parachutes and specialist training, plus this adds more weight.Future designs might encompass multiple tethers around a central ring allowing the crawler to climb up inside a ring of tethers and allow more weight and more flexibility, but the initial implementation would have to be a single thread tether prototype.
>>107630499
>>107631046If you would like, I'd be happy to add a $100/kg surcharge to the price tag for hypothetical government inefficient. It now costs ~$460B instead of $440B and remains a no brainer.
>>107631626because the payload would be in orbit, it wouldn't just fall straight down
>>107630123>an act of Congress takes care of all of these problems overnightExplain how you are going to persuade Congress. When has Congress supported the right thing (supposing the orbital ring is the right thing to do) the last time? Remind me.
>>107631626Of course we would do that once the asteroid mining business was underway, but you can't expect that to be in place on day one. $1/kg to space is a high end estimate, as are all the other figures given. It isn't hard to see a wide variety of ways that the system would in fact be better in actual practice, but the point of the current exercise is to demonstrate feasibility rather than get bogged down in the details.
>>107631107obviously its not that fucking big, it's just a photo, but the size is irrelevant. Objects in orbit travel around 6000km/h and an object travelling at that speed of any size has tremendous force, basically wrecking the lift.
>>107631046If we actually do get to a point where we're seriously contemplating building a space elevator for rational engineering/scientific purposes I assume we'll have progressed rationally to the point where we won't be running our governments retardedly like that. China's a good example already, it's essentially run technocratically and doesn't give a shit about PC bullcrap even if it's corrupt in other areas or whatever. Really at some point governance will be heavily dependent on smart computers and algorithms which will mean that we can scrap a lot of the stupid affirmative action based government crap now in favor of efficiency and pragmatically getting things done.>>107630943Learn to read, I mentioned that literally directly after positing that question.
>>107631417That wasn't the point. The point is you have to have this ring above OTHER NATIONS. They aren't going to accept that without shittons of bribes, inclusions, and other things. Some will deny you just for spite. North Korea and Iran would require constant pay offs just to not kill it.And then you are in danger of operations destroying it cause different countries have different attitudes about safety. For instance, the Russians have nearly destroyed the ISS on at least 8 times, and they just don't give a shit. Only quick action by US operations or pure luck has saved the ISS from total destruction from Russian stupidity and not giving a shit. Now apply that to all the little countries that have zero experience with space. Hell, 1/4 of those nations you are going to have to include in your project believe in black magic, and that if you get aids, you can cure yourself by raping a new born girl. If you have erectile dysfunction, just go rape a crocodile, its an age old proven remedy. Need something special to shake off depression? Hold on while your local doctor chops up some albino human, using some of their brain, blood, heart, and liver to permanently cure you of the Monday blahs. Hell, they still kill women for practicing witchcraft and making their milk curdle or masses of insects eating their cash crops.So unless there's going to be a crusade to seize control of all those "inconvenient" nations, you aren't getting an orbital RING done and keep it operating.
>>107625980death star?
>>107622120GL getting 80 mile CNTs faggots, I though they stopped researching them because 2mm is the most they could get.
>>107630975>Using wholesale electricity prices for 2008 to 2009, and the current 0.5% efficiency of power beaming, a space elevator would require US$220/kg just in electrical costs.Initially perhaps, since you'd be using ground based lasers to power the crawler, but you would quickly build a space station with massive solar arrays at the orbital end of the space elevator and switch to powering the crawlers by laser from that.Since this is in geostationary orbit, it would be in sunlight (unimpeded by earths atmosphere) for far longer each day than an earth based solar power farm and could produce all of the power necessary plus electrical storage when the station was eclipsed by the earth and therefore in darkness.The economics of the space elevator would change rapidly as we get more technology into orbit.We could rapidly build orbiting manufacturing stations (using material from captured asteroids) to build vast power stations in earth orbit and supply earth directly with cheap renewable power.A space elevator is like the steam engine, it becomes the trigger to whole new realms of technology and solutions which are currently too difficult or too expensive to access.
>>107622120Haven't seen any space elevator threads for years. I fear he is gone for all times.>>107623359Newfag
>>107632431I reckon he was a poo in the loo, he left around the same time that meme was peaking
>>107631139So the miles long pulley and cables system is going to be taking on all that stress? And then there's the friction of such a huge system you'd have to fight against, as well. This thing would need to either accelerate very slowly, or be able to stretch a shitton, just so it wouldn't break.
>>107629196>was going to post some 00 shitMy nigger
>>107632558Lmao. I believe he never really was a memer himself, but I could be wrong.
>>107631781It will be a lot more expensive then that, once government really gets going.Remember, the costs of the shuttle launches were not 1.2 billion because of the material. It was the cost of all the PEOPLE (labor) involved. That's why "mass flights" was supposed to reduce the cost to LEO to $5/kg or $10/kg--- because you have to pay all those people for 1 flight a year or 1000 flights a year. So you are spreading out their "overhead" and actual work instances cost.Whatever the material costs for a space elevator are, multiple that by at least 1 million, and you are finally getting all the human labor and inefficiency costs into it.Now, if you just had a private venture do that, you could avoid a large portion of that. But you can't do an orbital ring at that point--- which is why the geo design is what is talked about on a serious front. Then you just need 1 country and its geo slot, plus some minor international political bullshit involved.Until 1 world government, we are stuck with a big bean stalk as the only politically possible design.
>>107632191kek, Death Elevator
>>107631107You are correct that we would want to clean up space. An orbital ring enables overnight deployment of lasers that can begin blasting all debris in orbit near Earth. Because they are tied into the grid via the elevator, we have more than enough energy to clean up space.Your picture makes space seem very crowded, but in fact you know that it really isn't if you stop to think about it. We've had a space station in orbit for years doing just fine. To give you some numbers to think about, the cross section of the ISS is about 5000 square meters. The cross section of the orbital ring would be significantly greater, close to 1 million square meters - about 200x more.In other words, if the space station can reliably survive for years then we can reliably expect the orbital ring to have weeks to clean up debris in its vicinity from very basic common sense math.The actual expectations of collision are significantly less than this first order approximation, but already you see that we have ample window of opportunity.
>>107631509Virtually every expert on the matter disagrees with you. Few consider conductors along the tether to be a viable means of powering a space elevator, mostly due to weight constraints.http://images.spaceref.com/docs/spaceelevator/SE_Ideal_App_for_FEL.pdf>The cable proposed in Edwards, 2000, would have a cross section of 3 mm2. The resistance of each wire just to geosynchronous would be 100 kΩ. Trying to send electricity across such a resistance would result in 99.5 percent line losses for any conventional use and require a variable voltage from several thousand to several hundred thousand volts. If the line size were increased to 3 cm then the resistance would be 1 kΩ and line losses would be 67% but the total mass of the cable is now 9.2e7 kg.
>>107632692>we can't do this because $100/kg government inefficientOh, but actually the project is still obviously in our interests even if we grant that.>oh really? well actually the number is way higher thenYou can go ahead and admit you are just shilling against the advancement of mankind at this point, since it is obvious enough to everyone.
>>107632692By the time a space elevator will be built there won't be many humans working anymore, one engineer will be multiple times more productive as an engineer now, same with a scientist, and technology will basically make most administration beyond direct low-level management obsolete. You could have small technically competent teams able to do this stuff.
>>107632779>An orbital ring enables overnight deployment of lasers that can begin blasting all debris in orbit near EarthSure, but you wouldn't blast them to get rid of them, you'd fire lasers at them to slow them down so that they fall into the atmosphere and burn up surely?
>>107632893All of this math is done for a 40,000 kilometer geosynchronous tether attached to a counterweight, which is in no way related to what we are talking about.Instead, we are talking about ~200km tethers hooked to orbital rings.
>>107632675Are you him? Why did you stop man? WHY HANS
>>107632032China, the land where a flash mob forms to hang people or toss them out of sky scrapers because they were reported to be CHEATING ON THEIR WIFE? That China?Algorithms run most of the world now. But as long as humans are actually human, you are going to have all that bullshit that comes along with humans and their local society. Whether its "government workers and government contracts must equal or exceed the population's racial and other measured elements make up" or "Can't start work on a Friday. Bad Juju. Can't finish work on a Monday. Bad Juju.", humans will always be the worst and most expensive element in the system.It doesn't matter how technologically advanced humans get, as long as humans are humans, they will be superstitious and irrational in their beliefs and behaviors. And humans will definitely rise up against you if they find out you are trying to make them more rational. Silly beasts.
>>107632404>but you would quickly build a space station with massive solar arrays at the orbital end of the space elevator and switch to powering the crawlers by laser from that.That helps for the top half of the climb, but that's a small dent in exchange for a very large investment, since the lower portion of the climb (where apparent gravity is strongest) is by far the most energy-intensive.
>>107624794we were working on one but you kikes killed the man in chargehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Bull#CARDE
>>107622120Call it babel
>>107633021Yes, of course, I am only demonstrating feasibility rather than going into extreme levels of detail.For very small debris, we might just blast it into dust. For larger debris, you might want to send robots to capture it - a cheap and economically viable thing when your cost to LEO has dropped to $1/kg.
>>107633316>That helps for the top half of the climb, but that's a small dent in exchange for a very large investment, since the lower portion of the climb (where apparent gravity is strongest) is by far the most energy-intensive.It depends on the amount of energy available and the loss in translation through the atmosphere.If top-down laser power wasn't possible then an approach where the first part of the lift was powered by a ground based laser and only switched to the space based laser when it reached a specific height.This would also allow for a backup if either the ground-based or space-based lasers failed.Powering the crawlers would likely always be a balance of cost of power versus practicality anyway.
>>107633236> People doing stupid things in a country somehow means that their government is ran on superstition and is just as stupidTheir government is composed of technocrats and the Chinese state isn't religious whatsoever, the top bureaucrats are all materialists trying to optimize the country in a particular direction based on the data they have.
>>107633439>For very small debris, we might just blast it into dust.Christ, I literally couldn't think of anything worse. Even paint flecks travelling at orbital speeds have done enormous damage to the space shuttle and ISS.Better to force it out of orbit than fragment it into small particles as the collision between the Fungyun FY-1C satellite and the Russian BLITS nano-satellite demonstrated.
>>107624835it wouldn't be an actual elevator made from a strong enough material (carbon nano tubes), it would just be a cable.Because the cable is so high it would stay up right from the force of the earths spin, much like how when you spin around with a piece of a rope the force keeps it straight.Now that allows for two things, to get material up into space, where you can build in space. ( things can be prefabricated on earth before sending it up) You can also use the end of the cable to slingshot spacecraft a certain direction if you wanted too.
>>107634053A tiny piece of space junk (a paint fleck) damaged the window of the space shuttle during the STS-7 mission (Photo: NASA Orbital Debris Program Office)
>>107622120Space Elevator please!Don't let the Japs beat us!
>>107622120I am quite undecided about this thing. On the one hand to envision an great future is a very good thing on the other hand dreaming about a better future actually hinders you to pursue it.People may learn to live more consciously in the moment while fulfill their day to day task. You actually make better progress than with pure envision of it. It remains a tricky thing though a space elevator would most definitely help to access an almost infinite amount of energy and harvest them more easily plus to help shield the earth and cool it. Megaprojects on infrastructure are in addition only positive if their are in the hand of the public and not in the hands of investors. There are many things to think about the best actual step towards it would be most likely to start study serious engineering yourself.
>>107632779Now you are just talking shit.First off, we can use ground lasers to blast most of the smaller but identifiable bits of space trash out of orbit. Air Force is already tasked with this. You don't need to vaporize anything, just subtract a minor bit of orbital velocity with each pass of the debris. The debris will fall out of orbit then. But we'd have to clean out the orbital space first before any construction, and maintain very pristine operational space after starting to build an orbital ring. Can't just blast stuff in space, you will just make more bad junk that comes at you.Second, whenever the shuttles flew after the first couple of years in operation, they had to be heavily armored because they always struck orbital debris. It was one of the many "unplanned" elements of the project, because the original designs didn't take into consideration, having to add and replace "orbital armor". The forward facing windows showed the damage the most, but the entire orbiter got blasted by micro-meteorites (from space junk) constantly.Third, the ISS gets hit by the same junk. It gets holed regularly, and has to be fixed/patched/replaced on a regular basis. The ISS is not very good at dodging that shit, because the tiny stuff cannot even be detected with current technologies. Too small. But the energy it packs is tremendous. The ISS dodges things like old satellites, lost gloves, and lost wrenches.And we've been lucky no one on the ISS has been hurt in these collisions, yet, but its been very close many, many times.If we are going to do a space ring, then its got to be man free, and purely robots. But that is a good thing, since it reduces the requirements and the associated costs.
>>107631225Yesplease forgive us, we know not what we have done
>>107622120>carbon nanotubesThe string-theory of chemistry. I don't think you can get any more popsci than this
>>107632967I am just thinking of the natural retardations to the construction process. I'm all for building a bean stalk, whether its an orbital ring or geo.And I'd have to think some more on what the actual mark up from human labor and human graft and human stupidity would be on the project. But it is a tremendous mark up. And the more nations involved, the faster the costs grow.
>>107634153>ou can also use the end of the cable to slingshot spacecraft a certain direction if you wanted too.However, static and moving space elevators would have to be separate as they work very differently.To differentiate them, orbital transfer elevators are more typically referred to as "sky hooks".https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_(structure)
>>107633168>orbital ringsAh. Well that's quite a different story.Losses with an orbital ring based launch system are mostly associated with accelerating the payload to orbital speed, not lifting it. How were you proposing to do that?
>>107622120>Build space elevator>Religion of peace decide it's offensive for reasons>Plane of peace diversifies space elevatorI'd give it a month.
>>107633009Oh, I see. So this is singularity fantasy land then.Well, in that case, by that point, humans will have devolved so much, they'll use nukes to destroy your space ring because they fear it will "cuck" them and make their wieners smaller.Silly me. I thought we were talking about things that could be done now < 10 years from now, if we could just get a few companies/governments to buy into the project.
>>107622120You people don t take into consideration the fact that the earth is actually flat.
>>107622120>Trump won and he's going to MAGA can Space Elevatoryeah... when his flat-earther, Punce is whispering "intelligent designs" into his deaf ears
>>107631669Two tethers as a starting point could provide stability and safe redundancy on the initial run. Additional tethers could be added in pairs around the existing crawler to boost capacity over time. Maybe combine multiple "completed" small elevators into a larger one later down the line or keep them separate for more flexible schedules?
IN future we will use cheap atomic power from thorium to melt sand into houses.....and glass is an outstanding insulator!
>>107634339Solar Roadways
>>107634587You see only the obvious anon.Actually you may or may not acknowledge it would be something like:>Big corp, Energy, Oil companies, (((share holders))),... getting afraid of loosing money and influence of goyish consumerism and souls>(((They))) decide to activate their 5th Collum, proxy, terror group, whatever>Act out a devastating attack against space elevator>Goyim should know their place >Energy is only allowed to stay within the hands of few not many.
>>107634721> Thinking a space elevator could be built between now and 10 years from nowWhat timeline are you from?
I guess space elevators would be a thing once we can travel through the stars, then there would be a point to build one on a star we are mining or something
>>107633861But the Chinese bureaucrats and leadership still have to worry about what the population takes into their head.Hell, the whole first space race was because the American public shit itself when it found out the Ruskies had put a small metal sphere into orbit that overfly all of America. The US government then had to make a big show of force and power.Any government of the masses always has to worry about the masses taking it into their heads to just storm the government workers homes and kill them outright. So all governments try to avoid actually going so against its own people that they will turn into a violent mob. Governments where the leadership get elected to their office worry about what the masses THINK and FEEL, which means they don't care about logic or science or efficiency, just what keeps the masses from tossing them out of office or hanging them from a tree.But then, you said were talking about AFTER the singularity, and the machines just look after the humans like fat happy cows in a zoo.
>>107634256>It remains a tricky thing though a space elevator would most definitely help to access an almost infinite amount of energy and harvest them more easily plus to help shield the earth and cool it.- It would allow the building of both in orbit solar power farms (either LEO with multiple transfer points or geostationary with a fixed transfer point)Megaprojects on infrastructure are in addition only positive if their are in the hand of the public and not in the hands of investors. - Regardless, it would be a capital investment with a near infinite return as it would allow outward expansion into the solar system and capture and return of solar system resources.>There are many things to think about the best actual step towards it would be most likely to start study serious engineering yourself.- As the Apollo programme spurred on science education, so making access to space would similarly spur on those whose horizons are limited at the moment.Outward expansion would also provide a risk reduction capability for humanity as a whole, since being spread out among the solar system rather than all on a single planet would make total annihilation less likely.Admittedly it would take a long time before off Earth bases and cities became self-sustaining, but it is a reasonable ambition and would be a good stretch-goal for scientific and engineering minds.Lots of guys would try a lot harder in school / university if it meant they had a reasonable chance of going into space for an extended period.It would potentially lift the whole of humanity.
>>107635227China's government doesn't give a shit about its people or what they think for the most part.
>>107634968Space Elevator was talking "We have the technology. Look at this orbital space ring design."Well, if you have the technology to do, then we should be trying to figure out how to start doing it, shouldn't we?Humans need to get off this planet. if we don't get out into the solar system, and then eventually out into the galaxy, then nothing matters. Not being an ubermensh, not finding yourself a nice white Christian Nazi girl to stuff up with a couple of dozen kids, or ancapping or anything.We have the technology to feed every human on the planet, right now. Hell, we have the infrastructure to do, and have since the end of WW2. And we only need the farming output of Kansas and any of its 2 neighboring states to actually grow the food if we meant serious business to do it. BUT, no nation on this planet is going to let us feed their people without them having total control of the food and food distribution. Which is why "we" (the US) have never bothered to try. If we don't conquer the world to make it basically 1 world government (under the US), "We" (the US) wouldn't be able to do it. And "We" don't have the political will or capability to conquer the entire freaking world.Now, Space Elevator says his project can't get done until after the Singularity. Well, after the Singularity, we will have much better tech available. And no need to send humans out into space. Why would we? We'll basically turn into sentient machines, and those can just be launched. They aren't as delicate as humans. Heck, they might just get railgunned into LEO. Why bother with all that unnecessary structure? You have SINGULARITY!Besides, once humans evolve into a sentient machine race (or we invent them), the aliens will then come around and everything will change. They've been waiting for us to evolve into sentient machines, just like them. Why do I say that? Because machines are best suited for space exploration and travel. Not delicate organics like us.
>>107636206>1 world government (under the US)I literally cannot imagine anything more horrid.You haven't been in a coma for the past 18-months have you?
>Republitards.>Scientific advancement.Bush didn't even like stem cell research.
>>107636556Bush loved Stem Cell research. He funded millions of government research into stem cells. He just didn't like embryonic research because that was a result of abortions.At the time, there wasn't anything valuable ever found in embryonic stem cell research. Actually, I don't think there has been anything found to date of this post, but I could have missed something.Adult stem cell research has been incredibly promising though.
>>107636995>Adult stem cell research has been incredibly promising though.Especially where they use adult stem cells from a patient to treat him/her-self. Transplantation of bone marrow stem cells to treat brain damage being a prime example.Likely to cure lots of degenerative diseases by the use of genetic manipulation of gene cells before they are reimplanted in the patient (ALS et al)
>>1076364571 world government does suck. But it is basically what Space Elevator is predicating his build on--- a rational, reasonable world entity that will proceed. It is often considered an emergent benefit from singularity. After all, why would intelligent machines not cooperate to meet their goals? That's the thought. But that doesn't take into account all the programmed to kill military machines out there. Singularity might have too much military leaning, and just eradicate all "others" to meet its programmed base goal and secure all the resources for it and its "side". People hope Singularity would handle that thorny issue magically without any significant hostilities.
>>107636457>>107636206>1 world government (under the US)This. Nothing more horrid.The notion that the US would miraculously turn 180 and suddenly steer the whole world towards bright future is totally naive and dangerous.
>>107635355mathemagical d.ubs of Fibonacci spoke. I am totally in, though as I pointed out it is a ridge walk between dreaming about the "conceptual" future and experience and work within the moment to actually achieve your dreams. To live in the past as well as to live in the future are only imaginary processes hindering you the full appreciation of the moment as it is and actual working towards those goals. In the end it is a comfortable dream but it stays really hard work to reach the goals.Many people loose a lot of their "life" by hunting after the concepts of a future, society has set up while forget about the now and here. I would propose that is it worth trying to see things as they are or better as how you experience them. The gist of all this. First step to all of this is consciously awareness. To be consciously aware inherently means the pursue of improvement of yourself and hence to positively influence "reality".
>>107637434I wasn't saying we "should" have 1 world government under the US, just that the only way the US could make sure that no human went hungry unless they wanted to, would be to turn the world into a 1 world government (under the US).I don't know if the world will ever have 1 world government, and I don't think I would want one. After all, if you don't like how things are done in Alabama, you can just move to Florida, Colorado, New Year, or California. But if the whole world is the same government and you don't like it, where can you go to find a different government?I think any 1 world government would probably have incredible hubris and incredible corruption. But that's just my life experiences pointing me that way.
mars elevator when
>>107637255>1 world government does suck. But it is basically what Space Elevator is predicating his build on- Nope a global consortium of government and private enterprise could build and operate the space elevator quite easily.--- a rational, reasonable world entity that will proceed.> Which is where it breaks down because you always get some level of irrational behaviour from governments. Unlike the current arrangement where I can expatriate a world government would be impossible to get away from.> It is often considered an emergent benefit from singularity. After all, why would intelligent machines not cooperate to meet their goals? That's the thought. But that doesn't take into account all the programmed to kill military machines out there. Singularity might have too much military leaning, and just eradicate all "others" to meet its programmed base goal and secure all the resources for it and its "side". People hope Singularity would handle that thorny issue magically without any significant hostilities.Your paternalistic fantasy is many peoples worst nightmare and is the nightmare that many of the worlds population explicitly rejected in the USSR.
>>107637759>I wasn't saying we "should" have 1 world government under the US, just that the only way the US could make sure that no human went hungry unless they wanted to, would be to turn the world into a 1 world government (under the US)When you're in a whole, quit digging.You may see the US government as a wholesale benevolence, but from the outside looking in it appears elitist, capricious and cruel.I have no problems with Americans, but the US government is a fucking nightmare of epic proportions.I am sure I am not alone in thinking this.
>>107638241* whole = hole obviously.
>>107637759>to turn the world into a 1 world government (under the US).Where's the difference? Look what you (= the US) have done so far, see the Middle East and elsewhere.
>>107638241You are projecting. I never said the US would bring utopia or even be a nice boss to the world. I was saying that due to human politics, if the US took it into its leaders heads to get serious about "feeding the poor of the world", that it would require changing the governments of the world to do so.I think that, due to similar reasons, any orbital ring that is going to provide a panacea of free energy and free raw materials from space would face the same issues, namely that the local governments would look extremely unkindly on this unless they had complete control over all that free energy and material--- and so nothing would change for the masses, but the local government leadership would get damn rich, fat, and happy.
>>107622120how do you intend to keep building once you reach the firmament?
>>107638378Hrm. Well, frankly, if the US actually tried to have the total world under it, I presume they'd really fuck it up. Right now, I think it is more of a mix of competing countries, companies, and individual people making the current stew we have.
>>107622120muh static electricity. Please delete this thread.
>>107639624>if the US took it into its leaders heads to get serious about "feeding the poor of the world""Feeding"? Another joke. Right now, your (= the US, again) notion of "food" is GMO junk, depleted of nutrients.
>>107622120just flip the wall vertically once you're done with it and use it as an elevator instead lol
>>107639624>You are projecting. I never said the US would bring utopia or even be a nice boss to the world. I was saying that due to human politics, if the US took it into its leaders heads to get serious about "feeding the poor of the world", that it would require changing the governments of the world to do so.I am not fucking projecting you Amerifuck idiot. That would be literally like the United States invading the rest of the world.Did Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and the rest of the list of US military blunders teach you nothing?The rest of the world is sick and tired of the US sticking its nose in where it is not wanted.Keep your boots off my fucking lawn you cunt.
>>107622120There is no material strong enough to make it work. Which is why its dead.
>>107641568>There is no material strong enough to make it work. Which is why its dead.Nope. We're getting there, but we aren't there yet.http://isec.org/website-2017/pdfs/2017-01-StatusOfTheSEConceptFinal.pdf
newfags ITT showing their newfaggotry because they think we mean a LITERAL space elevator
>space elevatorI loved the threads but come on the idea is retarded.One on earth will be like the Holy Grail of muzzie bait. Every towelhead aged 2 and above will be trying all kinds of methods their minds can conjure to cause it's structural integrity to fail.Not to mention the ride will be quite slow.
>>107640592lost.
>>107641086as much as I hate to say it, I agree with that sentiment.The US needs to go isolationist for at least a few decades imo.
>>107622120But what about space debris?Isn't it that one piece of metal the size of your hand could rip right through it?
>>107641824>newfags ITT showing their newfaggotry because they think we mean a LITERAL space elevatorWell I mean something like this (see pic)
>>107642069>Isn't it that one piece of metal the size of your hand could rip right through it?The tether would have to be immensely strong to support its own weight, but would simultaneously be very narrow.Chances of it being significantly damaged by space junk during construction and early usage would be very low (but not zero)One of the first technologies deployed (after downwards power), would probably be space junk detection and avoidance system and a laser powered mechanism to provide a de-orbit burn to all the junk it can.Space junk is going to be a problem anyway for the next few decades until we have a meaningful way of either capturing it, pushing it into earth's atmosphere or both (tar-baby approach)
>>107642587Alright I see.Also this article from 2015 states that Boeing is working on force fields. These are 'just' for absorbing shockwaves but who knows how far away they are from creating ones who deflect actual objects.http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a14683/boeing-patent-plasma-shield/(also I like to see more Space Elevator threads. but please with more topics than space elevators kthx)
>>107642116a person, or identity, a thing.
>>107637958>Vietnam and Laos not pictured
>>107643339>>Vietnam and Laos not picturedSure, it might not be a complete picture, but the point was made and understood. It was drawn for comic effect as much as anything.
The problem the space elevator is trying to solve will be solved by other means long before its able to be created.
>We need to get payloads up and down from space quickly and cheaply>Space elevator>Weighs millions of tons>Thousands of KM long>Cost trillions>Wont be built for 50-100 years>Could collide with the ever growing amount of satellites and space junk>Giant, ugly earth dick >Re-usable rockets>Small, light>Cheap>Being built and perfected right now.>No giant, hazardous earth dick.>2100>"We can finally build the space elevator!">"Yeah we solved that problem like 80 years ago, we don't need it anymore"
>>107625265Nice to see you old friend. glad it wasn't me that summoned you this time!
Space elevator threads aren't strictly about space elevators, election period newfags.
>>107622120>a space elevator sticky>only the most recent posts will be shown>older posts will be deletedIt'll just be a shitposted nightmare like any other sticky.
>>107628582The idea of this of antigrav/acoustic levitation to a platform are the best ways forward. How to get stuff into orbit can be argued as maybe a rail gun might be a better option for the top down building materials.
>>107622120Is the space elevator from gundam 00 viable?
>>107642587>The tether would have to be immensely strong to support its own weight, but would simultaneously be very narrow.i never got this. the tether would either act in tension or compression and we don't need a super-material to do that, we just need to find a way to counteract the force to a degree at the counterweight to take off some of the stress. if you could design the forces of the tether to balance at zero then again it's a non-issue. it's a better pursuit of research other than hoping those materials engineers get off their asses and deliver new products
MARS COLONY 2020
>>107622120National debt doesn't matter when you own the entire world.
Not until we fix our nonwhite problem. Niggers would end up messing it up
I am all in favour of the orbital ring to yield energy for production, transportation etc. But why the focus on indoor farming?>>107630335>Indoor farming is a good use of excess industrial capacity, solving two problemsTechnocratic wet dream. Solving "problems" while there were none if farming was done the right way. People have forgotten how to do it correctly.Read 1491 by Charles C. Mann"Before it became the New World, the Western Hemisphere was vastly more populous and sophisticated than has been thought—an altogether more salubrious place to live at the time than, say, Europe. New evidence of both the extent of the population and its agricultural advancement leads to a remarkable conjecture: the Amazon rain forest may be largely a human artifact."
>>107648000>the Czech can't into modern farmingguess that explains why you're so irrelevant in geopolitics.
>>107648232>modern farmingEducate yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Os-ujelkgw
