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File: eltajin.jpg (71 KB, 640x480)
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Lets learn and share Architecture of the indigenous people.

This is El Tajin site, from the Totonac people
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City is from 900 a. C
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How it would have look back then
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"Kåta"
Constructed by the indigenous people of Scandinavia.
Rather good for a Nomadic people north of the polar circle.
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Where is this? Mexico?
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>>983893
Forgot pic.
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>>983895
Just looked it up myself, yes, it's in Veracruz
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>>983869
I ike the aztec floating islands.
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>>983880
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>>984079
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>>983920
Chinampas
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>>983886
You sure this is naive american?
Looks like a PS1 game to me
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El Mirador, the late Preclassic city. By c.150, most of the Mirador basin cities had been abandoned during the Preclassic collapse. Giving way to the Classical period.
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>>984183
Cahokia
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>>984227
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>>984238
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>>984242
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Obligatory
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Calusa societies.
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>>984258
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>>984082
The main feature of the pyramid is its relation with a nearby mountain. During the dawn, the sun illuminates the 365 niches progressively from the top to the base while all the other buildings remain in darkness.
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Chan Chan the Chimor capital
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>>984347
I'd love to see a reconstruction image of the site
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>>984358
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One of the 250 pyramids at the valley of Tucume, X-XVI centuries.
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>>984501
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>>983880
>900 bc

Bullshit, prove it for fuck sake.
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>>984183
La Danta was big
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>>984691
>La Danta
doubt.jpg
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>>984768
What do you mean?
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I don't understand why you'd build your pyramids in a rainforest
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One thing I have always wondered, because this is not really my specialty, is why did the American peoples so scarcely use metallurgy? There are exceptions, but you don't see things like bronze armors, swords, spears, etc. It seems all weapons are wood, obsidian, etc and armors are organic materials?

I understand that some cultures never reached the populations necessary for metallurgy to really take off, but I just wonder why we never see something like a panoply or mail in the more advanced cultures.
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>>984783
lurk more
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>>984691
>>984777

Bullshit
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File: Sayil.jpg (191 KB, 1299x773)
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Sayil. Mayan city from Yucatan. This building looks like an oriental palace
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File: calakmul.jpg (917 KB, 1434x1000)
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>>984783
Because it looks cool.
And also to control key positions, either in a pragmatic or a religious way, since many pyramids were designed to be aligned with certain stars.
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>>984803
Guns germs and steel
Seriously.
There were only 3 places in the Americas conductive towards intensive agriculture and high tier civilizations. Only 1 of them had access to metals
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>>984685
He didn't say bc anon.
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>>984227
>>984896
I've always thought these temples were super cool. They just look so awesome.

Some thing with Zigguarats.
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The Great Pyramid of Cholula
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>>985170
And the many phases of it's construction.
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>>985211
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>>984381
Thank you !
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Mitla, a city of zapotec people still with original colors in walls
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A crawling serpent is projected in the staircases of the temple during the spring and autumn equinoxes.
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Who else incamasonryboo here?
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>>985699
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>>985732
I love the way Inca carved huge boulders to fit so perfectly together. Those structures will last for thousands of years.
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>>985699
Looks armenian/byzantine.
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>>985511
City of the Dead. I heard this was a holy city where the uijatao (great seer/oracle) who was like their pope dwelled.
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>>984803
Stop trying to summon /pol/ stupid asshole, you already know the answer is that NECCESITY CREATES NEED
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>>985748
Unless they get destroyed by an earthquake or something they could easily last for a million.
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>>986527
Erosion
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>>985511
This one is so beautiful...
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>>985646
Imagine falling from those stairs
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>>984288
Cool as fuck.
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>>984803
Dude Inuit spread across the arctic in search of meteorite iron and cold smithed it on ivory tusks

Like literally it's just opportunity + weighing in the input vs output
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>>983869
I tried studying native american history (cuz my grandmother is native) and I was pretty disappointing.

Basically, during the Mississippian, there were major cities where shit was getting done and it looked like the natives were starting to organize and possibly advance, But for largely unknown reasons, it all began to collapse.

Everything fell to shit and reverted to tribes again. By the time Europeans showed up, the native civilization was already on its way out the door.

There honestly isn't that much to be proud of when considering native history. It showed a little bit of promise at times, but nothing ever came of it.

I'm talking about natives in what is now the USA by the way, not south america and shit.
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>>984896
Also large areas of the rainforest were cut down to help develop the mortar for pyramid building.
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>>985646
And if you stand in front of El Castillo and clap your hands, the sound of a bird call reverberates back to you.
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>>987320

The Mississippians were round when the Europeans arrived, but I think were not too welcoming. Just like these guys: >>984258
>>984266

Most likely it was disease that forced them out, and they eventually morphed into the cherokee after all their knowledge and history was gone.
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>>987381
No. Those were the LATE-mississippians. The late-mississippians were a shadow of their former self.
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>>987381
but the second part of your comment is correct.
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Indigeneity is a social construct. There are no true natives. We're all migrants.
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>>987437

Maybe, But some of us are more migrant than others.
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>>987320
Though not really great civilizations and such I always thought the Southwest Pueblo peoples were pretty fucking cool at least
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Wish there were more surviving examples of Aztec architecture.

However, the Maya have plenty.
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File: Cliff-Palace-in_1891.jpg (977 KB, 2126x1543)
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Mesa Verde Cliff palace, upon being discovered.
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>>988602
And a modern, cleaned up and reconstructed view.
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>>988620
The House of Many Windows, located near by.
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>>988630
You can see the house just a little above the center of the picture.
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>>988637
The Square Tower House. For centuries, the tallest building in Colorado.
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>>988649
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>>988666
Long House Cliff Dwelling.
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>>988678
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Do you guys have some info about the pyramids of Aridoamerica?
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>>988944
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>>988946
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>>988637
Rad view, was it just a house or perhaps something else, like an outpost?
Who lived there?
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sorry wrong picture.this is just ur..here is technoticlan
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Do any of you guys know if this drawing would be accurate? I see this and many like it all the time but I doubt cities like this were build without scholars making it a daily topic in history classes
(or at least hearing more about it)
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Gonna post some Sinagua/Ancestral Puebloan ruins from around Northern AZ
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>>989103
Tuzigoot is on a hill looking over the Verde River near Cottonwood, AZ
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>>989116
Montezuma well is a sinkhole north of Camp Verde. There are ruins inside the well and around the rim, as well as irrigation ditches.
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>>989125
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>>989127
The ruins were used as a tourist attraction before the park service got a hold of them, hence the graffiti from the 1800s
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>>989133
Montezuma castle is in Camp Verde and is extremely well preserved. People used to be able to climb up to the ruin and go inside.
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>>989144
Another shot of the castle with a park ranger dude to show the scale
I thought I had more pictures of the ruins around Flagstaff but they're all shit.
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>>989059
The city looks pretty accurate.
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>>989159
The ceremonial precinct at the center of the city.
>>989151
Really cool.
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>>988968
Aren't the Guachimontones still part of Mesoamérica?
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>>989164
Moctezuma II's palace
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this place must've looked hella aesthetic when its walls still stood
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>>989175
My bad. It's somewhat close though.
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this looks so confy.
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Incan fortress
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>>989059
Albeit they should be studied with some skepticism, the Spanish accounts have provided key archaeological clues.
Here are some interesting passages of the second letter of Cortes to Charles V:

>"(About Montezuma II) He possessed out of the city as well as within, numerous villas, each of which had its peculiar sources of amusement, and all were constructed in the best possible manner for the use of a great prince and lord. Within the city his palaces were so wonderful that it is hardly possible to describe their beauty and extent ; I can only say that in Spain there is nothing equal to them."

>"The city of Iztapalapa contains twelve or fifteen thousand houses; it is situated on the shore of a large salt lake, one-half of it being built upon the water, and one half on terra firma. The governor or chief of the city has several new houses, which, although they are not yet finished, are equal to the better class of houses in Spain –being large and well constructed, in the stone work, the carpentry, the floors, and the various appendages necessary to render a house complete, excepting the reliefs and other rich work usual in Spanish houses. There are also many upper and lower rooms–cool gardens, abounding in trees and odoriferous flowers; also pools of fresh water, well constructed, with stairs leading to the bottom."
(...)
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>>990357
(...)
>"There is also a very extensive kitchen garden attached to the house, and over it a belvidere with beautiful corridors and halls; and within the garden a large square pond of fresh water, having its walls formed of handsome hewn stone; and adjacent to it there is a promenade, consisting of a tiled pavement so broad that four persons can walk on it abreast, and four hundred paces square, or sixteen hundred paces round; enclosed on one side towards the wall of the garden by canes, intermingled with vergas, and on the other side by shrubs and sweet-scented plants. The pond contains a great variety of fish and water-fowl, as wild ducks, teal, and others so numerous that they often cover the surface of the water."

(...)

>"On their route they passed through three provinces, that, according to the report of the Spaniards, contained very fine land, many villages and cities, with much scattered population, and buildings equal to any in Spain. They mentioned particularly a house and castle, the latter larger, of greater strength, and better built than the castle of Burgos ; and the people of one of these provinces, called Tamazulapa, were better clothed than those of any other we had seen, as it justly appeared to them."

And here are some other accounts by Bernal Díaz del Castillo, chapters LXXXVII and XCII of the True History of the Conquest of the New Spain:

>"The next morning we reached the broad high road of Iztapalapan, whence we for the first time beheld the numbers of towns and villages built in the lake, and the still greater number of large townships on the mainland, with the level causeway which ran in a straight line into Mexico."
(...)
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>>990370
(...)
>"Our astonishment was indeed raised to the highest pitch, and we could not help remarking to each other, that all these buildings resembled the fairy castles we read of in Amadis de Gaul; so high, majestic, and splendid did the temples, towers, and houses of the town, all built of massive stone and lime, rise up out of the midst of the lake. Indeed, many of our men asked if what they saw was a mere dream. And the reader must not feel surprised at the manner in which I have expressed myself, for it is impossible to speak coolly of things which we had never seen nor heard of, nor even could have dreamt of, beforehand."

>"When we approached near to Iztapalapan, two other caziques came out in great pomp to receive us: one was the prince of Cuitlahuac, and the other of Cojohuacan; both were near relatives of Motecusuma. We now entered the town of Iztapalapan, where we were indeed quartered in palaces, of large dimensions, surrounded by spacious courts, and built of hewn stone, cedar and other sweet-scented wood. All the apartments were hung round with cotton cloths."

>"After we had seen all this, we paid a visit to the gardens adjoining these palaces, which were really astonishing, and I could not gratify my desire too much by walking about in them and contemplating the numbers of trees which spread around the most delicious odours; the rose bushes, the different flower beds, and the fruit trees which stood along the paths. There was likewise a basin of sweet water, which was connected with the lake by means of a small canal. It was constructed of stone of various colours, and decorated with numerous figures, and was wide enough to hold their largest canoes."
(...)
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>>990381
(...)
>"In this basin various kinds of water-fowls were swimming up and down, and everything was so charming and beautiful that we could find no words to express our astonishment. Indeed I do not believe a country was ever discovered which was equal in splendour to this; for Peru was not known at that time. But, at the present moment, there is not a vestige of all this remaining, and not a stone of this beautiful town is now standing."

>"(About Tlatelolco) After we had sufficiently gazed upon this magnificent picture, we again turned our eyes toward the great market, and beheld the vast numbers of buyers and sellers who thronged there. The bustle and noise occasioned by this multitude of human beings was so great that it could be heard at a distance of more than four miles. Some of our men, who had been at Constantinople and Rome, and travelled through the whole of Italy, said that they never had seen a market-place of such large dimensions, or which was so well regulated, or so crowded with people as this one at Mexico."
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>>984255
Gotta do the inca trail when you do it, shits intense.
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>>985732
I had sex on the giant outlying rock beyond the tunnels there. Good times.
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>>990068
I had to climb that shit high and its bigger than it looks. Hardest shit i have ever done.
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>>984227
>>984238
>>984242
Very cool.
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>>983920
this is pretty cool and looks very comfy
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>>984803
>but you don't see things like bronze armors, swords, spears, etc

i posted a similar comment a while ago out of geniune curiosity and I was told that the Incas used bronze and copper
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>>987320
They didn't collapse for unknown reasons, it was due to European diseases. When the Europeans began colonising, the survivors of the collapse of Mississippian civilization became the five civilized tribes.
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Pre-Inca fortress of Kuelap
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>>991904
they believe that it was a religious settlement rather than a fortress
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>>991930
there is not a scholarly consensus
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>>984183
that picture looks really over the top. Did they really have that many pyramids and so many that were that tall? The tallest we have today don' tseem to even come close to what' portrayed here.
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>>992023
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>>992023
It's still unknown if La Danta was built over a natural hill, nevertheless it's the tallest pyramid of Mesoamerica with 76m.
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>/pol/tards getting butthurt with this thread
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>>992066
Dang. The maya really are the "mystical" of all the american civilizations. The fact that they had these giant cities but when the europeans arrived they were already almost extinct and many giant cities abandoned and nature had already taken over.
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>>990357
>>990370
>>990381
>>990405
very cool, thanks for sharing
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>>992077
I still don't buy that a civil war simply destroyed entire cities, it was either a large cataclysm, famine or aliens.
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>>992096
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE
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>Mfw sitting here with a cup of coffee, listening to the populous the beginning soundtrack and reading the accounts of cortez while looking a the vast cities of the maya long ago claimed by nature
https://youtu.be/Qs02P3Rhd0U
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>>992096
I think this image is confusing meters with feet. La Danta is 72m if iirc, not 170
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>>985170
The temple-pyramid complex was built in four stages, starting from the 3rd century BC through the 9th century AD, and was dedicated to the deity Quetzalcoatl. It has a base of 450 by 450 metres (1,480 by 1,480 ft) and a height of 66 m (217 ft). According to the Guinness Book of Records, it is in fact the largest pyramid as well as the largest monument ever constructed anywhere in the world, with a total volume estimated at over 4.45 million cubic metres, even larger than that of the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, which is about 2.5 million cubic metres. However the Great Pyramid of Giza is higher at 138.8 metres (455 ft).
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>>985177
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>>992099
tbqh mayas cheated since their pyramids were constructed on top of hills and they never truly stopped building, so each year the structure keep getting taller and taller.
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>>992110
The estructure on which la danta stands >>992066 (number 15) is also a human made pyramidal structure, it kinda depends on from where you decide to start measuring.
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>>992118
Cholula was contemporary to Teotihuacan and one of their main trade partners.
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>>992495
And remained relevant during the time of the Spanish arrival. And it still has inhabitants living in the city today which make it one of the longest continuously occupied city's of the Americas.
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Why do the aztec ruins always look so much more ''ruined'' and desolate compared to other structures from those time periods
Like did they built their houses out of mud and twigs like the africans did or something and then build a gigantic rock pyramid in the middle
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>>987320
>There honestly isn't that much to be proud of when considering native history.

Not everything is about fancy buildings. Anyway pride worths nothing.
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>>992745
Some structures were left intact (see: >>985511
) while others were buried. Pic related is Teotihuacan prior to its discovery.
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>>984691
What the fuck is up with the scale of that picture?

That camel nigga at least 30m tall
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>>992495
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>>992960
Archaeological researches suggest that a group of nobles followers of Quetzalcoatl succesfully managed a coup d'etat in Tikal after they were exiled from Teotihuacan.
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>>992960

Still don't understand why they chose such an obnoxious watermark
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>>993305
Please elaborate this is in my interests, I'm doing a Mesoamerican comic with some parts set in the Classical period.
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>>993614
Can't find the documentary, but I remember they analyzed stones at the temple of Quetzalcoatl using a thermoremanent magnetization method because they noticed that the structure was burned.
It turns out that right after their exile the king of Tikal was overthrown by a person who is mentioned with a glyph of Teotihuacan.
Additionally, the murals at the Complex of the fantastic animals suggest that the followers of Quetzalcoatl fought against the other 3 dynasties ruling Teotihuacan.

If you speak Spanish you could find this helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRpkMvEtau4
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>>987437
semantics
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>>990357
>>990370
>>990381
>>990405
>Therefore, we should destroy this civilization and keep little to no record about their greatness because of reasons.
>tfw you'll never visit Precolonial Mexico
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>>992105
Tlaocoya as fuck
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>>994677
It's still debated if the glyph of the Spearthrower Owl is a metaphor or is representing a historical figure since it has been located in 3 other temples at Tonina, Yaxchilan and Uaxactun. However, the depictions in the first two cities are anachronic by a couple of centuries so it's unclear if they refer to the same person.
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>>995730
Current researches indicate that the temple of the Smoking Mirror of the Sky at Tonina may reach 80 m tall, rivaling with La Danta at El Mirador.
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>>995376

>keep little to no record about their greatness because of reasons.

The reason they were burned was because people prayed to the idols depicted in them.

Mesoamerican hieroglyphs are a very inflexible language to write in and they can't convey a lot of information. Spaniards did have many codices burn but they also commissioned new ones to be written in the Latin alphabet by the indigenous priests who had committed their peoples' myths and legends to memory and in better detail than the original codices ever could. Further the Aztecs cooked most of their own books and those of conquered peoples about 50 years before Columbus set sail when Itzcoatl held a bit of an iconoclasm as part of a religious reformation.
>>
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>>992745
Aztec houses were confy as fuck if you ask me
>>
>>995860
>in better detail than the original codices ever could.
Have you read Nahua poetry?
The Aztecs not only preferred to write using images, they also preferred to speak by using images rather than abstract concepts.

You hardly find a word that needs to be defined in their poetry, their speech is mostly made by images and things known by everyone. It was part of their way to learn and teach.

>A Plain Spring Song

>Flowers descend to earth, Life Giver sends them, sacred yellow flowers. Ohuaya ohuaya.

>Let all be adorned, princes, lords. Life Giver sends them, these wailing piles of sacred flowers, these golden flowers. Ohuaya ohuaya.

>What do our hearts want on this earth? Heart pleasure. Life Giver, let us borrow your flowers, these golden flowers, these wailing flowers. No one can enjoy them forever, for we must depart. Ahuaye ohuaya ohuaya.

>Though they may be gold, you will hide them, though they may be your jades, your plumes. We only borrow them. No one can enjoy them forever, for we must depart. Ahuaye ohuaya ohuaya.

>O friends, to a good place we've come to live, come in springtime! In that place a very brief moment! So brief is life!

>I, Yoyontzin, say, Here our hearts are glad. Friends, we have come to know each other and each other's beautiful words. Yet they are also dark. Ohuaya ohuaya.

>Yes, I suffer, grieve, I am joyless, inconsolable on Earth. Ohuaya ohuaya.

>I am a hawk. My heart longs for Life Giver God's glory. Here on earth lords are born and they rule through his glory. Ohuaya ohuaya.
>>
>>995885
where's the bed?
>>
>>995901
The green or white rug inside the house. The beds of the commoners were made of woven palm, while the nobles slept in one made of feathers.
>>
>>995901
its that green mat on the floor behind the screenwall
>>
>>995887

I didn't say Nahua was inflexible, I said that their hieroglyphics were.

They could not write down poetry like what you just did without the Latin alphabet, their pictographic and ideographic proto-writing did not record words but images representing elementary ideas like man, jaguar, avocado, and death.
>>
>>992105
>aztec
>Facial hair
>>
>>995957

motecuhzoma had a mustache
>>
>>995931
That's natural misconception by people who are not familiar with the language.

At 33:30 there's a clear example of their writting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB-V_vDReNM


Translation:

>Este asiento tiene un borde liso ocupado por el color amarillo Coztic, contiene el signo de la estera tradicional, Petlatl, Petate, asiento se designa Icpalli, estas palabras se combinanpara trasncirbir la frase: "Petla Icpalli Coztic Icpalli Coztic Petlatl", aquí se asienta, gobierna y juzga.

>This seat has a smooth edge painted by the yellow color, Coztic, it contains the sign of the traditional mat, Petlatl, a seat is called Icpalli.
These words and its syllabes are combined to transcribe the sentence: "Petla Icpalli Coztic Icpalli Coztic Petlatl", in other words, here is settled, here is ruled and here is judged.
>>
>>995931
Eh, written Chinese started out the same way.
They still had poetry
>>
>>995957
Bernal Diaz del Castillo about Montezuma:

>"The hair of his head was not very long, excepting where it hung thickly down over his ears, which were quite hidden by it. His black beard, though thin, looked handsome. His countenance was rather of an elongated form, but cheerful; and his fine eyes had the expression of love or severity, at the proper moments."
>>
>>995860
>Spaniards did have many codices burn but they also commissioned new ones to be written in the Latin alphabet
It's hard to believe that these new documents have no sort of censure considering how active the Inquisition was at that time.

>Further the Aztecs cooked most of their own books and those of conquered peoples about 50 years before Columbus set sail when Itzcoatl held a bit of an iconoclasm as part of a religious reformation.
But we don't know how much and what did he burn, some scholars suggest that it was the documents that legitimized Azcapotzalco as one of the pilgrim tribes of Aztlan. Some also suggest that it was a punishment for the assassinations of many kings of the Valley of Mexico at the hands of the tyrant Maxtla.
>>
Native American philosophy?
>>
I always wonder what it must of felt like for an indian who lived a teepee to see a euro build a house from trees for the first time and be all like whaaaaaaa, you can do that?!
>>
>>994677
Excellent, thanks!
>>
>>996399
Check out the works of Miguel Leon Portilla: "Aztec Thought and Culture" and "Fifteen Poets of the Aztec World". Also Jim Maffie's "Aztec Philosophy".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uaIeY-FGpI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Uu8-LngEI
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>>995957
Where did the idea that Native Americans can't have facial hair come from?
>>
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Why the pyramids of western Mesoamerica are distinctly more different? Were influenced by the Capachan or Aridoamerican cultures? What is the relation between their ceramics to those found in Ecuador and Peru?
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>>997886
>>
>>984973
ac = antes de cristo (before christ)
or perhaps anon fucked up
>>
>>985535
wtf
thats amazing
>>
>>997886
>>997888
This kind of structure makes more sense given the climate.
>>
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>>997886
Look somewhat similar to the moche pyramids.
Like pic related.
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Moche city.
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Paramonga city fortress. An important border city of the chimu empire.
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>>985732
Sacsayhuaman aerial view.
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>>999348
Sacsayhuaman reconstruction.
>>
>>999360
>>
>>999363
>>
>>999348
I heard that the current floor is 5 m above the original one
>>
>>999386
Idk, but currently you can see about 20% of what it was.
>>
>>985785
Romanic style built over incan foundations
>>
>>997519
I'm also curious. Anyone know?
>>
>>997519
>>999454

The overwhelming majority of non-mixed native American men can't grow a beard worth a damn. When they didn't have middle easterners and Europeans to put their beards to shame they didn't have to care about how thin and wispy their whiskers were.
>>
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Tipon, an inca town

>>999454
I guess most natives don't have much facial hair as others races and shaving is common in those who do have. Is just an assumption, though.
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>>999577
Tipon irrigation channels.
>>
>>997886
It's believed that at least the P'urepecha of Michoacan migrated from Ecuador.
>>
>>996871
thx
>>
>>999629
Source?
>>
>>999760
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/tsaconf/590/

It was also in the book "Ancient West Mexico art of an Unknown Past." But to my knowledge it is only a theory.
>>
>>984227
>>984238
>>984242
>>984249

I'm pleased to see Cahokia mentioned in this thread. The Mississipian civilization doesn't seem to get the same attention as the native South American cities and such. I've been to and climbed Monk's Mound before. Was a memorable experience.
>>
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>>983869
>“Mayan clade” composed of Mayan-speaking
populations from Chiapas and the Yucatan pe-
ninsula in the southeast (orange labels). Intro-
ducing migratory edges to the model connects
the Maya in Yucatan to a branch leading to the
Totonac, whose ancestors occupied the large pre-
Columbian city of El Tajin in Veracruz (15). This
result points to an Atlantic coastal corridor of
gene flow between the Yucatan peninsula and
central/northern Mexico (fig. S9), consistent with
our IBD analysis. Indeed, the only Mayan lan-
guage outside the Mayan territory is spoken by
the Huastec, nearby in northern Veracruz, sup-
porting a shared history (16).

>In the Yucatan peninsula and the
neighboring state of Chiapas, we found what we
termed the “Mayan component” (orange in Fig.
2B, bottom panel), found primarily in Mayan-
speaking groups. This Mayan component is also present at ~10 to 20% in central Mexican na-
tives, consistent with the IBD and migration edges
connecting the regions. This relationship between
the Yucatan peninsula and central Mexico, seen
in both recent shared IBD and genetic drift–
based models of allele frequencies (TreeMix and
ADMIXTURE), suggests that gene flow between
the two regions has been ongoing for a long
time. In contrast, Mayan admixture is not found
at appreciable levels in highlanders of the south-
ern state of Oaxaca (Triqui and Zapotec), where
mountain ranges may have acted as geographic
barriers to gene flow.
>>
>>988944
La Quemada never gets mentioned, I'm suprised to see it here!

I grew up about an hour south of there. There are tons of unreported ruins around the area. People find artifacts and trinkets all the time that unfortunately aren't given over to museums. (example: I own 2 intricately carved stone axe heads, mother found a beautiful pot, cousin found a gold snake bracelet, etc). We'd go and play in some of the ruins as a kid. Like the "cerro de las ventanas" hill.
>>
>>985732
That's a big stone.
>>
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>>996399
Two of the main concepts that are observed in the central Andes throughout history were duality and ancestor worship.

Andeans believed strongly in the duality of things. It was represented in one of the most sacred symbols of them, the chakana, which is 5000 years old, and basically was a representation of the world and its four cardinal points that are complementary and oppose each other.
Andean duality was understood as the image of someone in a mirror, the opposition, the adverse side but rather complementary to the individual. From it is that the tripartite and quadripartite arise in the political, religious, geographical aspect, etc. of the andean societies.
This concept of "duality" existed throughout the Andean world. In the Inca for example, the noblesse was divided into Hanan and Hurin (high and low) Cuzco, so was their villages and cities even their empire was also divided in Hanan and Hurin (Chinchaysuyo and Antisuyo were Hanan and Contisuyo and Collasuyo were Hurin). The Inca officials were always in pairs and had to compete with each other in order to win a promotion.
Research suggest that the inca system of government was a diarchy, ie, a shared government in which two people govern at the same time. One principal, (Hanan Inca) responsible for the administration and achievements; and other subordinate (Hurin Inca), which exercised religious functions.

The veneration of the ancestors was also a daily occurrence in the Inca and pre-Inca society.
Throughout the Andes, people were divided into ayllus which were family clans who shared a common ancestor from which they cared for, respected and followed his way of life, they also had a paqarina or a place of origin; generally ruins of huacas of earlier cultures, caves or lakes (the Inca paqarina was the Pacaritambo cave that is near Cuzco, for example); that were sacred and venerated places from which their ancestors originated.
>>
>>999812
Someone did some Mississippian architecture set for Age of Empires to be used in a mod. No one picked it up though unfortunately. Would be cool to play them.
>>
>>1000467

Huh. That's a shame.

I guess the Mississipians just don't have the same glamour as other native American civilizations. They didn't leave any great stone works behind; all their structures were wood and mud, and the city and it's people were essentially gone by the time Europeans reached the area. Hell, it took people a while to realize those mounds weren't natural formations.

But when you stand on that big hill and realize it was made before the combustion engine by a people with no significant metallurgy, you can't help but be impressed by the dedication.
>>
>>1000549
Damn son you are being overly dramatic.

It's been a long thread and mesoamerican pyramids are fascinating.

Missipians made fantastic houses and I rather live in one of those than in a oversized pyramid.

Looks comfy.
>>
>>1000442
Fucking weird how similar it is to Chinese society.
Yin and Yang, ancestor worship, Religious bureaucracy, and the 4 cardinal directions with the society in the middle
>>
>>1000549
I'd love to learn more about them. Do you recommend any books?
>>
>>1000602

Nothing off the top of my head. I'll have to look around and get back to you with that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia

A little wiki starter for ya.
>>
>>1000602
Forgotten Centuries: Indians and Europeans in the American South 1521-1704 talks obviously about Late Mississippian but has a bit of retrospect on the archaeology of the Southeast as a whole, which includes Miss. same goes for another major Charles Hudson work, Knights of Spain. if you're a uni student, you can probably find the Smithsonian Handbook of North American Indians, Volume... 13? 14? of which is all about the Southeast and has great intro treatments of Mississippians. a recent volume called Recent Developments in Southeastern Archaeology is also a good base of departure if you're looking for something more rigorous and detailed. i've used all these sources repeatedly in my thesis, which is on the contact period between Southeast Indians and Spanish colonists from the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries, with a focus on early missionization and native resistance
>>
>>1000638
>>1000656

Awesome thanks. I'll check them out.
>>
>>993614
it is somewhat true. the popol vuh, the mayan creation story written down by the quiche maya (in present day guatemala) say that their cities (more likely their dynasty) were founded by a priest-ruler named Kukulcan (fethered serpent) who came from "across the gulf of mexico."

this person was probably from one of the aztec/nahua speaking areas in mexico, as this area in meso america was seen as a cultural and power center at the time. many maya rulers would associate themselves with this group of people to legitimize their power.

indeed much trade was done with the nauha, and the language was a sort of "lingua franca" much like english is today in the business world.

source: Popol Vuh, the sacred book of the maya trans: allen j christensen. Introduction pg. 27
>>
>>996871
wow, this was really interesting and illuminating, and this guy explained things quite understandably, for me anyway.

I'd like to know if there exists any sources that explain Mayan Metaphysics/philosophy?
>>
>>983920
This from Te Papa?
>>
Incallajta, a fortress built on the border of the Inca empire.
>>
>>1001977
>>
>>987437
Shut up
>>
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Inca agriculture is damn fascinating.

This is an Inca crop laboratory, with different sections containing soil samples from different parts of their empire and each elevation step representing a different microclimate. Those 3800 varieties of potato didn't selectively breed themselves.
>>
>>1000227
for you
>>
>>989029
>tfw you'll never go to a prehispanic rave
>hitting the peyote like there's no tomorrow
>cuz you will actually get sacrificed tomorow
>>
>>996413
A stationary house can't follow buffalo migrations anon
>>
>>1005265
This. I'm sure they knew since many natives around them built houses of wood. But they depended so much on the buffalo in the plains.
>>
>>1005494
>>1005494
>>1005494
It also hurts my soul that even though there's a good amount of it still buriied as far as I am aware, iit's under parts of mexico city that are being used so it will never be entirely dug up.

>>993614
Mind linking us or telling us the name of it?

>>989059
I would fucking kill for a full image of that whole mural at a high resolution. All of the images of it only show like 1/4th to 1/3rd of the whole thing, including that one. There's so much shit off to both the left and right and further down.

====
Also, random question: In reconstructions and art, buildings and pyramids in Tenochtitlan are shown to have smootth surfaces, a bit like how the giza pyramids originally were. But all the images of actual ruins i've seen are very rough and cobblestone-y.

Was the cobblestone covered in some outer layer as with the prymaids? Are the reconstructions simply not accurate? Or are the ruins from older, underlying structures that were built over by the peak of Tenochtitlan's development anyways since i'm under the understanding that the mexica built over theiir own temples.
>>
Not sure if it was said, but there is considerable work on translating the Mayan language currently going on and they are about done with it.
>>
>>1005567
I think it's a monumental tragedy that the cities and monuments of the great civilizations of the Americas were destroyed, it would've been nice if the Spaniards attempted to replicate the architecture a la greco-roman architecture in Europe
>>
>>990491
Put down the Cheetos, senpai.
>>
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>>1005567
Same thing with Peru, most of the incan stuff was destroyed or the tops got chopped off to use the foundations to build normal ass normal european style buildings on top.
>there will never be a modern non-westernized purely native american civilization
Fuck dude.
>>
>>1005685
>>1005649
Ubisoft needs to get off their asses and make a precolumbian asscreed. As un-innovative as the assassins creed games are they do a pretty good job of capturing the feeling of the settings they take place in.

It's the closest we'll ever get to seeing it unless somebody makes some VR simulator.
>>
>>1005692
I've noticed First Nations games are finally starting to crop up of late, I saw one based around Inuit mythology punctuated with short interviews with Inuit that looked very good.
>>
>>1005728
>>1005692
http://neveralonegame.com/
Found the link if you're interested
>>
>>1005692
I still don't believe this whole world of wonders that was Pre-Columbian America is still ignored by Hollywood and the gaming industry, most people worldwide still think Aztecs, Mayas and Incas were literally stone age tribes no different from abos or negros, what exactly is so boring or unsellable about native americans?
>>
>>1005747
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that it's only been within the past few decades that natives have been able to renew their cultural practices, and so much information was lost to the Spaniards and their seemingly innate desire to burn every record they can find and dismantle every building and monument. It also doesn't help that Native life is not glamorous, and there are a lot more open wounds than can be fixed by throwing money at them
>>
>>1005567
>In reconstructions and art, buildings and pyramids in Tenochtitlan are shown to have smootth surfaces, a bit like how the giza pyramids originally were. But all the images of actual ruins i've seen are very rough and cobblestone-y

There's a funny anecdote regarding their ability to polish facades. Anyway, the answer you are looking for is in this picture >>985511

>"And when we saw that all around had the appearance of a luxurious garden, and that the streets were filled with people of both sexes, we returned most fervent thanks to God for having allowed us to discover such a country. The vanguard of our horse was naturally very much in advance, and had arrived in the great square and up to the dwellings where our quarters were prepared. It seems that a few days previous the walls had been newly plastered with lime, (which these Indians prepare uncommonly well,) and as the sun was shining full upon them at the time, one of our horse soldiers came galloping up to Cortes at full speed to inform him that the walls here were built of silver. Aguilar and Doña Marina immediately saw that this was lime fresh laid on; which of course created abundance of laughter. We never omitted on subsequent occasions to remind the man of it, joking him that everything white appeared to him like silver."

- True history of the conquest of New Spain, chapter XLV
>>
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>>1005784
>you will never discover a completely new and different civilization.
>you will never live in a world where there are diametrically different civilizations scattered around the whole globe, constantly interacting with each other but retaining their identity.
>you will die in a world where no matter where you go, everything is the same and the only variables are a nation's wealth and ethnic cohesiveness.
>you will die in a world where it's easier than ever to travel, but everywhere you go will look the same.
All hail Europa...
>>
>>1005778
I've wondered this too. In part I think it's mostly due to lack of knowledge about them. A lot is lost, but at least for some there is enough material to make videogames, films, comics, novels etc. For precolumbian, Mesoamerican and Andean civs have more than enough. It's a lot of wasted potential tbqh.
>>
>>1005806
fuck globalization man.
>>
>>1005692
the black flag has some mayan/taino things.

not a great game , driving the ship is kinda fun tho.
>>
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>>1005685
>You'll NEVER see the coronation of an Sapa Inca in Cuzco, the center of the world.
> you'll NEVER EVER enter the tower of Paucarmarca in Sacsaywuaman and see its entry with two large amarus (andean dragons) on the sides.
> you'll NEVER EVER NEVER EVER enter the Amarucancha Palace, the most opulent building of Cuzco. An exquisite facade of white marble and bluish red, adorned by two majestic towers and an imposing columned hall of the finest wood from the forest. One of the few buildings in Cuzco that was covered by a flat stone ceiling; portentous sculptures of green basalt and jasper represented amarus and jaguars under the dominant and triumphant statues of condors. In an interior garden there was a huge anaconda alive, protected by a woven net of pure gold; Visitors could watch it regularly feeding with small vicunas that were given in solemn religious ceremonies. And many other interior gardens and orchards with all kinds of plants and animals of the jungle and ponds and streams with fish and turtles of the Antisuyo.
>>
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>>1005888
K-Keep posting architecture guys, this is getting too depressing.
>>
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>you will never see war captives wrapped up in rope and bled dry in homage to the spider god

fucking Spaniards ruined everything
>>
>>1005784
Alright, thanks
>>
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>>1005948
Moche no longer existed for half a millennium when the Spaniards arrived.
>>
>>1005948
>be turbo aztec-tier violent civilization
>get wiped out by drought and climate change
Moche was kill long before the spanish arrived, and their successors, the Chimor, got conquered by the incas.
>>
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>>1005982
It's a shame because they were very good metallurgists
They made gold plating by electrolysis, something that would only be rediscovered in the modern era.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_plating
>>
>>998373
i think he meant after christ, or a writing mistake for A.D, "c" is right next to "d" in Q keyboards
>>
>>1005685
thats actually very sad...
>>
>>1005984
They were not so violent, at least initially.
Although they shared some common practices with the Aztecs like ritual cannibalism, which fortunately was not imitated by his successors the Chimu and Sican.
>>
>>1005806
fuck
i feel you man
>>
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>>1005567
It's called Zotz. It's an alternate history set in postclassic period, but there's scenes set in Mesoamerica's classic period past too.
>>
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>>1006042
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>>1006046
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>>1006050
I did some studies on hairstyles of the periods for the comic based on primary sources.
>>
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>>1006055
>>
>>1006042
>>1006046
>>1006050
>>1006055
>>1006066
Looks cool, where can I keep up to it?
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>>1006066
character studies.
>>
>>1006066
>>1006055
Oh, also, can you post sources for the hairstyles?
>>
>>992745
The Spanish did destroy a shitload of sites, especially temples...
>>
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>>1006069
I'm still working on the third part, it should be out in the summer, I'll have it available digitally by then too, in August. You can keep up to date until then though here: http://zotzcomic.tumblr.com/

>>1006071
For Aztec:

-Codex Cozcatzin
-Codex Ixtlixochitl
-Codice Matrinense
-Codex Mendoza
-Codex Vaticanus A
-Florentine Codex
-Hassig Ross. Aztec Warfare: Imperial Expansion and Political Control. 1988.
-Heath, Ian. Armies of the Sixteenth Century: The Armies of the Aztec and Inca Empires, other native people of the Americas, and the Conquistadores 1450-1608. 1999.
-Heyden, Doris (trans) A History of the Indies of New Spain by Diego Duran. 1581 (1994)
-Lienzo de Tlaxcala
-Matricula de Tributos
-Pohl, John MD Aztec Mixtec Zapotec Armies. 1991.

For Maya:
-Coe, D. Michael. 2011. The Maya (Eighth Edition).
-Finamore and Houston. 2010. Fiery Pool: The Maya and the Mythic Sea.
-Foster, V. Lynn. 2002. Handbook to Life in the Ancient Maya World.
-Houston, Stephen. 2009. Veiled in Brightness: A History of Ancient Maya color.
-Looper, G. Mathews. To be Like the Gods: Dance in Ancient Maya Civilization.
-Simon, Martin; Stuart, David; Vargas, Carrasco Ramon; Cordeiras, Maria; Romero, Bernal Guillermo; Cruz, Gonzales Arnoldo; Borgstede, Greg. 2012. Maya Archaeology 2: Featuring the Ancient Maya Murals of Calakmul, Mexico.
-Tedlock, Dennis. 2011. 2000 Years of Mayan Literature.

http://research.mayavase.com/kerrmaya.html
http://research.mayavase.com/portfolio_thumbs.php?search=*Maya*
http://research.famsi.org/montgomery.html
http://ancientamericas.org/collection/browse/29
>>
>>1005982

The Chimu people maintained Moche sacrificial customs and were only conquered by the Inca in 1470. Why would they have stopped after the Inca conquered them, anyways?
>>
>>984803
The actual metals needed were not accessible at all to the majority of these societies
>>
>>1006344
Chimu started a revolting just after being conquered, they were seen as a threat by the Inca state and after the rebellion of Chan-chan, the survivors were relocated and the Incas were already banning some of their customs, such as eating dog.
Yet the Chimu weren't Moche, their centralized system of government was much more similar to Wari that the decentralized moche government.
One must understand that just as the Moche society goes into decline along with their belief system the Wari empire come, conquer and impose their culture, by the time the Wari empire ends and Chimu emerge as a very different society with different gods that the Moche had, with the moon goddess as the main deity and with far less sacrifices (in fact they didn't at first) in comparison from last Moche stages.
>>
>>1005747
>negros
>stone age
>>
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>>984079
>>984082
Is there a river or canal?
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>>985242
Dat dere viking longhouse level of privacy
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>>1005948
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6_snxcBVgI
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>>1007513
A water flow surrounds the city in the first picture
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Yaxchilan's 7th century suspension bridge.
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>>1005567
>Or are the ruins from older, underlying structures that were built over by the peak of Tenochtitlan's development anyways since i'm under the understanding that the mexica built over theiir own temples.
I think it was not a bad idea. I mean, now we can appreciate the previous aesthetics and the cultural change.
According to the hieroglyph of one the stairs of the temple, it was finished in 571 a.d, while archaeologists indicate that the pyramid is from the 8th century.
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>>1008157

I showed this to my Andean Art History professor back in college and she thought it was really neato and bumped my final project grade up to an A.
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>>1008157
Wow! that was a very nice made animation video of the moche culture, really interesting.
Here's one that i found that kind of explains the creation of the moon huaca.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlJTlrDSYag
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>>1008444
Oops!, this one is the full vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj4JgX3aMOI
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this one freaks me out
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The proportions of human spaces in these settlements is so small, and the monumental architecture is so large

it's unsettling
can't imagine humans lived there
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>>984896
In the Yucatan there are literally hundreds of undiscovered pyramids, encased under trees and earth in the jungle.


You can tell because the Yucatan is almost 100% flat; when you see a random lump in the jungle, chances are it's not a natural hill, and there is a pyramid under there somewhere. There's shitloads of these totally covered pyramids, there's no funding or manpower to excavate more than a very small number
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>>1006667

>eating dogs
Absolutely barbaric. Only Guinea pigs and other large non-vermin rodents are suitable food mammals in the empire of the Sun.
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>>1000442

At least these beliefs led themselves well to Christian syncretism. One of God's small mercies, I suppose.

The Corpus Cristi celebration is so Popular in Cuzco partly because it resembles the Inca practice of parading dead Emperors' mummies around during celebrations. (The mummies of great rulers were thought to still have some power.)
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>>1005567
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>>1009885
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>>1009889
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>>989025
>euphrate
>american
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>>1008157
>>1008157
Nice video, it makes me want to know more about the history of precolumbian south america.
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>>1009885
>>1009889
>>1009892
Got it. Also, what's the source on these images?
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>>1011222
Their from the archeological site of Cihuatan in El Salvador. It's from the main pyramid (P-7).

Construction of the pyramid's core, consisting of 6 terraces (here the third is being erected) with containing walls built of fieldstone joined with mud. This view is of the south side of the pyramid.

The core was faced with blocks of volcanic tuff (talpetate) joined with mud, with small pumice stones placed in the joints. Then the stairway balustrades were built which served to contain the fill for the steps.

The pyramid was stuccoed with lime made from marine clam shells. The temple on its summit was apparently ocher red in color. A relatively crude wall was built parting from this side (south) of the pyramid and the resulting patio was paved with lava slabs.
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>>1011461
I meant who drew the artwork and for what, not the archaeological site it's depicting.
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>>1011551
Elmo Quintanilla
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Filename
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>>983893

Are you from scandinavia? In finnish its "kota"
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>>1006667

Can you recommend any literature on the Chimu revolt? It doesn't even have a wiki page.
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It might not be Tenochtitlan, but it sure looks charming.
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>>1014960
These are floating islands btw
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>>987320
Well first of all, the reasons weren't unknown, it was literally just the presence of Europeans.

You have to consider that due to the immigration routes of humanity, the Americas had only begun being settled 10,000 years after Europe and Asia. Despite that they created some very impressive societies.
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Not as impressive as the things you guys post, but cute anyway.
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>>1016031
That it is in colombia, right?
>>1008157
There are videos like this but from other cultures?
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>>1016087
Yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOEQNo5m4rg

Maya Mythology, Popol Vuh

https://vimeo.com/32991338

P'urepecha Legend, Hapunda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gsqtcuHt4o

Aztec Mythology, Legend of Five Suns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD4mytVYG3o&list=UUd0ZtAAIHPk_Qqlf-VYO3Vg

Aztec Mythology, Nanahuatzin becomes the Sun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4UynbPlE6U

Aztec Myth Quetzalcóatl goes to Underworld

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yN4gZsPVy8

Musica Legends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4LYe_OixGM&list=UUz2x7q2FAjTStfQS3i9ercw

Mapuche Myth of the Primordial Flood
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>>1016087
yes is from colombia.

we should have an acient architecture wallpaper thread.
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>>1016834
Thx
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>>985732
I wonder how many slaves were crushed or maimed building that wall
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>>1017018
Incas didn't had slaves.
National buildings were constructed with the help of the whole population, each ayllu had to do their part by sending people and/or resources.
In fact in the remote parts of the andes, until a some years ago, people were still doing it. As the central government generally had no presence, to build or repair public buildings such as schools, churches and town halls, all the town gathered and each family agreed to give some resources (generally some few homemade bricks) for the job.
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>>984242
>>984238
>>984227

Illinois at the peak of it's culture and beauty.
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>>1000577
weren't the ancient chinese pyramid builders, too?
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>>1008869
>The proportions of human spaces in these settlements is so small
Are you blind?
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>>1008869
Teotihuacan was already abandoned when the Aztecs arrived. They named it "The place where men became gods"
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>>983869

ayy lmao
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Thanks for the thread guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NqUHT4qE8w
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>>989059

somewhat accurate but heavily idealized, I wouldnt take Diego Rivera as anything more than indigenist commie propaganda, the fat fuck himself admited as much
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>>1021166
The mural though is pretty impressive from an artistic standpoint given all that it encompasses in a single piece. As an artist who's done murals, I think it's worthy of some praise.
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>>984783

There didn't always used to be thick jungle there.
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>>984691
Source?
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>>1022605
>La Danta towers over the city of Mirador and is the largest manmade structure in the ancient World, according to Richard Hansen, the lead archeologist in the Mirador basin who has published more discoveries about the Maya than anyone in history. This pyramid is much larger than the great pyramids of Egypt and 15 times larger than the towering Temple IV in Tikal. The size of La Danta was originally severely understated and thought to have been built on a large hill, but recent excavations have revealed the entire hill is actually stone construction on completely flat ground. Additionally, only stone-age tools were used in the construction – nothing more than smashing rocks together to create these architectural wonders, so this effort represents possibly the largest manpower effort the world has ever seen.

>These tree-strangled ruins represent the climax of the Mayan empire, an intricately planned urban center, a thriving seat of government, a sophisticated culture, advanced scientific accomplishments and unprecedented military success. This city was so glorious and powerful that it was able to govern and maintain control of a population almost 10 times the size of the more famous Tikal, and equal to the size of Rome at the time of Christ. La Danta towers over the main plaza and enormous Central Acropolis nerve center of the once sprawling metropolis of over a million people in all directions. Evidence suggests that this flourishing city was abruptly and completely abandoned in mysterious circumstances.
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>>1023261
Jesus mother of fuck

Fantastic thread gents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elb5FiimnEo

[spoiler]yes I've seen the south park episode[/spoiler]



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