I just finished Fate/Zero and loved it.
What does /a/ think of it?
What's next? Do I watch the new F/SN anime by Ufotable?
I don't like the smell of this thread
>What does /a/ think of it?
It was average, 5/10. The characters were fucking stupid and boring.
Where can I find it?
i'm not trying to bait.
F/Z is way, way better than FSN
That said, it's like 6/10 at best
F/S N by Deen and later JC staff's ataraxia
Watch DEEN's F/SN. Nasu was so happy about the adaptation that he requested DEEN to make UBW into a movie
Isn't that adaption shit?
>I just finished Fate/Zero and loved it.
>Do I watch the new F/SN anime by Ufotable?
you already did it wrong OP, it's like watching the star wars movies in number order
READ THE FUCKING VN
Hay your spider sense was right, here's the bait >>115316432
Just give me the link you asshole.
Go find someone else to sponfeed you, lazy bastard
After seeing Saber get sent back to the moment before her death tearfully crying regrets I sort of felt bad especially because she did not hear Lancalot's thought's if she had then maybe she would of known that her people loved her for realz and that Rider didn't have a clue what he was talking about. To bad apparently that all gets tossed out the window in order for her to become a slave to the ginger jackhammer fucking nasu.
Don't bother with the vn. Only /a/ autists think it's good. To normal people it's garbage. Never try to make action with only words. You gotta have animation to have good action. Otherwise it's just trash
Watch the Ufotable anime and if you have a lot of time read the VN
But Deen F/SN is by no means "good action". If one can ignore their QUALITY, they can play VN as well.
But you should never watch the DEEN version.
Read the 50 hour porn picturebook and fuck off
I want to ignore the awful sex scenes they don't reference those after the act right? it just seems so out of place with the character's personalities.
Hey, it's this thread again!
If you're a prude you can just read the all-ages version.
It's my favorite anime.
You don't have to be prude to dislike this shit
I can't tell if these people are serious or not any more. Read a fucking book you mongo.
Who is the best girl or Main Heroine of Fate/Stay Night?
Why did the manga stop being translated?
It was plot relevant nigguh
Rin because she get's to do stuff in all the routes instead of being ignored in one o killed in the other.
Saber is just the most popular one because waifu saber turned the nips on
>What does /a/ think of it?
Immature shit, a typical teenage fantasy, and those who still like it are brainwashed wearers of nostalgia goggles. Or underage, of course.
Terrible pacing, characters, dialogue, and action.
>not recognizing pasta
It's funny because this is actually true, even though it shouldn't be.
In the case of VNs the medium just isn't a mark of quality. There are standout examples but in general most are a waste of time. People really need to stop recommending it as if reading through 70 hours of tripe is undeniably enjoyable.
Do I watch DEEN's adaption of F/SN then or just watch it weekly with the new remake?
You read the VN.
Is it really the best way?
99% of people on /a/ say the VN sucks (shitty writing, otaku pandering, etc). I'm not wasting 70+ hours on something that sucks
I'll just start with the Ufotable anime i guess
If the VN sucks then the anime won't make it any better, and as far as I have seen Ufotable is very faithful to the source material.
People exaggerate, it's not 70 hours. If you're a fast reader it would probably take you 30-35 hours (if you don't listen to the voices).
It's your choice mates. Just don't go into the fate threads asking stupid questions which are probably answered in the VN.>>115321482
It took me like 23 hours. I played the unpatched version without voices.
I've heard Saber and Shirou can be a thing in the VN, will that be in the adaption Ufotable is doing?
Wait, there's voice acting?
>watch the DEEN anime
>wow what a piece of crap
>"of course it's crap you have to read the vn"
>play through first route
>"of course it was terrible you have to play UBW"
>give up halfway through because it's still completely shit
>not bad, enjoyed it
>"oh my god you pleb read the vn"
The VN sucks, /a/ has garbage taste.
how do you read all 3 routes in 23 hours?
I don't understand this shit man.
She went from being this self tormented regretful king to shirou's girlfriend who even waits for him to die so they can be forever together.Not to mention she's a foreigner blond 14-15 year old looking girl. Bonifide waifu material.
Don't listen to the fucks saying read the VN.
Just watch the latest series and avoid the threads. If you enjoy the world enough to give even the slightest fuck about exploring it more, then waste weeks of your life reading the VN.
Yes, there is a voice patch.
And yes saber and shirou can be a thing in the VN, though ufotable isn't adapting that route. In this route that they're adapting the heroine is Rin.
It's not that long, really. Start on Monday, read 4-5 hours a night, skip common scenes, and HF credits roll by Friday.
>Only watched Fate/Zero
>Thought Saber was pretty hype like Samus
>Probably filled with hatred at Kiritsugu for making her nuke the Grail
>Ends up loving and fucking his adopted son
How do you even
Shirou's 16-18 after the timeskip, right?
I thought Saber was 18 to her early 20s.
The VN translation was terrible with the akward simplified literal translation.
Shirou is Iskander
Beggars can't be choosers.
Is it the cast from the DEEN anime or different of voices alltogether?
Any chance they could adapt that route later on? Isn't there one with Sakura too?
I read it last week. Even skipping common scenes like most of the beginnings, it still took me much longer than that.
she's eternally young from the moment she pulled out Caliburn
Here's that reply you ordered.
Sakura route is getting a movie, maybe two movies?
I'm not sure if they're doing one or two, but at least one
Fate route was already done, but don't watch it because it spoils stuff from the other two routes
The VN was made worse by the bad translations. Although the original VN was full of purple prose.
Is it the DEEN anime or the movie that came out a year or so ago?
Jesus fucking Christ, this isn't hard to find out with google. For fucks sake
The movie adapts the route ufotable is doing at the moment, don't watch it. The anime adapts Fate (Saber) route but mixes elements from the other 2 routes. Don't watch it either.
I don't know your reading style or speed, so can't say what's the difference. I used right enter to forward instead of mouse clicking, and just kept hammering it the whole way. I admit I eyed over some less important scenes rather superficially, because the translation was so clunky, and skipped lines here and there, but I still made sure I got the gist of everything.
Replying to your own posts like that is poor form, anon.
Alright, thanks for the info Anon.
Google hasn't helped me find the VN, you mind passing a link?
I do mind, dipshit. I don't understand how anyone could have the patience to deal with your shit. That guy replying to you must be Jesus reincarnated or something.
And Realta Nua version from Nyaa
I did no such thing
Nothing wrong with being a nice manjew once in a while.
Lying on an anonymous image board is also poor form
So something like this?
>talking strictly of the novels, since the games seem to be pretty much covered, he often mixes a quite literary, almost formal style of words (such as you might find on a law book or a philosophical paper), punctuated with spontaneous plays of garbled language.
>It's interesting to note the rigid, somewhat pretentious style bordering on archaic. You can see it in stuff like Kyogoku Natsuhiko, whose work the author professes to admire.
>I'll just put it this way. You can search the internet in Japanese and find many site/forums that are discussing what Nasu meant when he wrote X, Y, and Z. I don't mean interpretation, but literally, "What was he saying?"
>Nasu has this tendency to make up words, intentionally switch kanji based on meaning or pronunciation, or do any number of things that give native Japanese readers trouble reading his works.
>You might be aware that in Japanese kanji generally accepted as difficult to read are printed with tiny letters of hiragana next to them to signify what they read. This can be (mis)used so a reader is forced to read a certain kanji in an entirely new and different way, resulting in a sort of hybrid that gives off an entirely unique nuance.
>The merit of his writing style is something that seems to be debated heavily even amongst fans in Japan, like whether his work is a Light Novel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_novel or if it qualifies as more heavier fair.
>Nasu never provides furigana based on the "difficulty" of the kanji. He only provides it in the first way that Pierrot mentions, for a shift in nuance. I wouldn't consider his works Light Novels.
is Ideal white a new song o something from the visual novel? I kinda like it.
Gilgamesh rips out illya's heart
Lancer kills Kirei after he's ordered to kill himself
Archer is Shirou from the future
Kozuki is Caster's master.
Archer goes to Caster's side after she captures Saber with Rule Breaker
Rider's master is Shinji who got the job from Sakura via Zouken Matou
Saber gets corrupted in heaven's feel by Sakura whose shadow consumes Gilgamesh
They use Rule Breaker to separate Sakura from the Shadow who is a projection of Avenger, the servant inside the Grail
Illya gives her life to resurrect Shirou with third magic
Everything is wrong with that.
Do what you want, the company didn't even encourage you to read the VN before watching their show.
/jp/ manages to make everything more shit
Stop spreading misinformation
You should probably rearrange that, because illya dying isn't that important, and most people are probably gonna stop reading the post after that.
Not him, but why do VNfags use such cheap attempts at discrediting people who happen to disagree with the idea of reading the source first?
Go away Angra.
Because they're all fucking idiots, and don't deserve anything better.
>Tohsaka Rin pleases old men for gems
The first guy was obviously not trying to make a perfect english translation, but given as a more accurate rough translation.
The second guy said he rewrote it because he wanted to convey across the flower Kanji usage.
>There are standout examples but in general most are a waste of time.
Applies to every medium
He skipped the cooking scenes
>Google hasn't helped me find the VN, you mind passing a link?
Buy it from Fakku for the low price of $250!
I have 2 days and 3 hours.
All they are good for is picking out good onaholes.
Are Shirou and Saber the OTP?
READ THE VN
Watch Endless Eight
Is Shirou the best cook?
Forget the 70+ hours that's just a guesstimation. A better way to tell would be to compare it's length to something just as lengthy. F/SN is longer than the entire LoTR trilogy. Now you can decide if you want to read through it or not.
Maybe if you're not going for 100%.
LoTR is just about 1k pages. A 40 hours VN is much longer than that.
Word count is how you compare written works. Pagination varies between different editions of the exact same book, so page count is worthless for comparing length.
F/SN is only really good for the action itself, which I hope the new anime will do a great job of replicating as it already is. There are a lot of SoL scenes which you can easily skip and the actual depth of the story itself in terms of thematic elements and literary merit doesn't show up until the end. Basically Nasu trolls you in each route by giving you battles and SoL mixed with shit tons of jargon about magic and the HGW and then wraps it up quickly at the end like he just remembered he was writing a story with some purpose and needs to finish it. If you don't want to go through that then just watch the anime, but if you still want to explore the world either Wiki, or imo go read his better works Tsukihime or KnK (his best work imo, and it's an actual book too!)
>>F/SN is only really good for the action itself
Not true at all. If you want mindless action go watch a battle shounen. F/SN has a fantastic setting and great characters. I wouldn't have bothered reading it if all it had to offer was clunkily described action sequences.
That webpage that compared wordcount across mediums died unfortunately. From what I remember F/SN is almost twice as long as LoTR in word count.
The action is the hook though. If all Nasu did was world build then it wouldn't be as interesting. People like to see fighting, why do you think it's called a Holy Grail "War"?
The setting isn't that great imo. It just takes place in a city which gives it a modern feel and something you can relate to which is ok. The characters I agree with. Most of them are pretty distinct and have their own personalities which make some of the SoL dialogue digestible.
The 4th War felt more like an actual war than the 5th.
A war does not mean nonstop fighting. Or even any fighting at all.
See: Cod Wars
Rin is objectively best girl
that edit is too obvious
I think that's mostly because of the tone of F/Z. It was gritty from the getgo with little to no serious moments at all. F/SN dilutes the harsh realities of the HGW with its SoL moments.
It's a mix of violence and strategy.
I mean lighthearted instead of serious.
Is it also because of the contrast between both Emiyas as the protagonists?
Reminder that ufotable completely butchered the saber - berserker final battle in fate zero
They've also failed to show Saber's eyes changing to Saber Alter during her final moments against Gilgamesh.
That definitely comes into play as well. Kiritsugu was already deeply entrenched in his own darkness when we met him in Zero with the same idea of being a hero but going about it in a more questionable manner. Kiritsugu used whatever means necessary to win his fights (He fucked Kayneth over, used Irisviel as a substitute for the lesser grail, and even used Maiya to an extent.) He really never cared about anything other than getting his wish fulfilled. Moreover, the tactics he used and his no-fucks attitude made it feel like he was really fighting for his life which is reminiscent of what goes through the mind of a combatant in a war.
Shirou is pretty much the polar opposite of that. He was always about making sure there was no man left behind, and wanted to protect the people closest to him. He built a sense of camaraderie with Saber and Rin and their teamwork helped them get really far against opposing forces. It does feel like a war, but it's a bit more toned down than F/Z was. It's a little more shonen than it is seinen.
>used Irisviel as a substitute for the lesser grail
Except that was always her function, the Einzbern made her that way in the first place.
and she isn't a 'substitute', she's actually the one that was supposed to be the lesser grail, the Einzbern incorporate the grail into her because of how in the past the lesser grail was easily destroyed in an accident an inanimate stuff.
>other than getting his wish fulfilled
It's kinda funny considering that Shirou of all people knows that Kerrytugu's wish was fucking stupid
Don't they have the same goal regarding being a hero though?
you need to work on your reading comprehension, because that wasn't the case. And Kiritsugu wanted to seek the same stuff that Shirou wanted.
>But Kiritsugu doesn't believe in utilitarianism, he just practice a form of it because it was the only realistic way for him he knows of to get anywhere.When he realized how such methods won't change the world, he chased for the Holy Grail to try to create such world without need for such sacrifice.
Even Kotomine knew that:
"You do not need to understand. Emiya Kiritsugu desired peace. Isn't it simple? But it was too simple for this complex world. He had to reject the extra parts that could not fit into that perfect shape."
"But he could not tolerate that.
He sought a perfect shape, but still wanted to save the extra parts.
…But that is a miracle exceeding human power.
There is no such thing as a world without conflict. He sought the Holy Grail to deny that fact."
>But when he found out the grail was corrupted and limited and malicious it is, he rejected it.
>Kiritsugu doesn't even think he's a good person, he thinks he's immoral due to his methods. and one of the reasons he said he doesn't deserve to hold Illya when she was born.
People who came from Fate Zero to Unlimited Blade Works are gonna hate what Saber will become. It's like she learned nothing from the fourth war.
It still bugs me how after the Grail blew shit up and killed so many people, He found peace through Shirou. I expected him to still be broken after adopting him, but he looked happy as hell even though he lost literally everything.
Because he gave up on seeking the ideal world and just settled for helping Shirou.
Shirou knows that word peace is stupid wish though
What, her ideals still being the same? I expected that, Rider lost to her so he couldn't really force them to change.
Does she still want to change history?
But Kiritsugu was still suffering on the inside, (and not just mentally because of the grail mud) And he was constantly making oversea trips to futilly try to get Illya back.
Except Archer responded to Rin when asked what he want to wish for
and Archer respond with 'world peace" and Rin thought he was joking.
The grail got STOLEN. Not destroyed.
In Apocrypha, instead of stealing the lesser grail, the world tree family managed to steal the greater grail.
Losing the lesser grail means the war is GG, well played.
Losing the larger grail, means you can't have 526th grail wars anymore
And Archer says that it's true that World Peace is a stupid wish.
No, that was an alternate timeline. that was the whole reason for F/A.
The lesser grail WAS destroyed in the F/SN timeline.
Not only does she know want to erase her tenure as King but she wants to erase her very existence because she feels extremely guilty for Lancelot becoming Beserker and in a way it is her fault he became like that but not for the reason she thought.
It wasn't. It got stolen. And then the fucker backstabbed the Nazies during transport.
And even the nameless hero F/E Archer had to make the same decisions as Kiritsugu.
>A deadly virus spreads inside of an airplane, and passengers are dying by the minute.
>Amidst the terror, they still frantically attempt to reach the airport.
>Even though they're all misearble they band together hoping to make an emergency landing at an airport.
>They act selflessly in order to save their fellow passengers even though their own lives are fofeit.
>But, when they reach the ground, they virus will have access to the 300,000 lives in the city.
>The groups are equally blameless, only different in size.
>Actually, the passengers on the plane are the biggest victims.
>Even in such hellish circumstances, they hold on to their own humanity.
>He applauded them, you know. Those people on the plane who stubbornly clung to human decency.
>But, he took their dying wish of landing the plane and he crashed it down to the bottom of the sea.
>His ideals said- "The good of the many outweighs the good of the few."
>It's an issue of life and death, not deontology. What Archer was talking about is like the Plank of Carneades. It's a thought experiment where one person survives by acting in a way that causes the other to die. If one person didn't take action, both would die. It's a situation with no good options...
>"It's always wrong to kill someone, no matter what ideals are at stake. To kill for personal gain is evil. So what if fewer people die one way or the other? No one's life was really saved."
>...Ah. That's why he's said that he wasn't a hero so often. He protected the safety of the people in the city from risk. The part where he actively saved someone on the verge of death didn't happen.
Requesting someone post that image explaining how Saber dodged Gae bolg.
I just love how smug they drew her.
No VN viewing required op!
>Be a good king
>Forget to pay attention to your knights interactions
>It ends up with everyone backstabbing each other, after a chain of escalating events
>And the kingdom falls to ruin
>Cornwall is then taken over and raped by barbarians, several times
She's thinking this retarded out of regret?
What's the reason? Merlin tricked him or something?
Yes it fucking was destroyed. It was stated in the official source. F/A is an alternate timeline.
Yes it was:
Third Grail War
Held on the eve of WWII. There were battles over the Lesser Grail with the Imperial Army and the Nazis as well, and the fighting unfolded in the Imperial Capital, but the Lesser Grail was destroyed and the ritual failed. The evocation site of the Grail was at Fuyuki Church. Angra Mainyu was taken in and the Greater Grail was contaminated.
No he didn't.
"You'll laugh when you hear this. When I asked what his wish was, he said this."
'Hmm. How about world peace?'
"I just burst out laughing."
"Then he got timid and said, 'I knew you would laugh. Well, there is no meaning in salvation by the deeds of others. Let's just call this a funny story.'"
"…I just thought, he became a heroic spirit and got summoned by someone like me because that's the way he is."
Except it it canon in the same with with Kara No Kyoukai is cannon despite being in an alternate universe. And everything about Extra Archer suggest it is F/SN Archer.
>Q: What is the reason of the Mana depletion in the world of Extra?
>A: Gonna leak you some info. It is the "what if scenario" caused by a "certain ritual" that occurred in the 1970's. This ritual is not expected to happen until the year 20XX.
And that ritual was heavily implied to be the Aylesbury Valesti ritual established by Crimson Moon that involves the revival of The Dark Six. It is a grand ritual the Ancestors have been preparing for decades, and it has come together in Aylesbury over the last ten years. It is suggested that the ritual, performed much earlier in the 1970s for unknown reasons.
It is hinted at in the preview for Tsukihime 2.
That is true
Based on this chart I don't see that. Unless you think creativity makes a girl the best.
I think he was talking about having good score in every category.
Who the fuck designed that chart?
Also according to what logic is Saibah smarter than Rin?
Was that chart designed by Takeuchi?
Well Saber had to run an entire kingdom. and Intelligence is different from wisdom (Rin actually might be rather low in that category too)
he fucked her wife, who was sentenced to death, he tried to save her and killed several of his own men however Aruthira forgave his actions, another member of the knight of round however did not and made him leave the palace thus preventing him from joining in the battle that would ultimately kill Saber. Lancelot heard about the outcome and just feel apart in guilt at betraying somebody whose been nothing but good to him eventually going mad. Saber however thinks that Lancelot became Beserker out of hatred for her.
And how is the attractiveness valued?
I guess Edwin from Baldur's Gate is a good example of High ass intelligence bow low ass wisdom.
Does Saber act smart even once in the VN?
I don't know, I guess it is just the typical qualities of Anime school idols being not only pretty but have great grades.
>Rin more trustworther than Arturia
Tsukihime by Ufo next?
Because Tsuki really needs an adaptation, since it was never did before and no one ever tried doing it as well.
lalalala I can't hear you, there's no Tsukihime adaptation already, go fuck yourself lalala[/spoiler
>There were battles over the Lesser Grail with the Imperial Army and the Nazis as well
Why didn't they use Noble Phantasms to destroy the Nazis?
There a lot of narrative on how she formulate her strategy, and in the f/z novels too.
But I guess her wisdom is not high enough on decision making in fights (probably because she relies on instincts).
Because that would be a serious masquerade violation for both the Association and the Church.
google Fate/Stay Night Realta Nua Torrent
google Fate/Stay Night Realta Nua English Patch
Rin doesn't kill you in the VN.
Saibah kills you 3 or 4 times
Approximatly 90% of Saber's plans fail hillariously.
>attacking the temple
>going out and defeat Caster
>Erotical Black Hole
Saber attacking the temple is what made me dislike her as a person. She is just stubborn and retarded. It was the single biggest blunder she could've made and completely obvious. If you point that out for her she sneaks out and does it anyways. If you follow along you rightly die a horrible death in the most obvious trap ever.
How can anyone like this shit head?
That's what you get with high Int but low Wis.
Well, low wisdom is typical of the Fighter class.
In what system?
Also please clear up what you think wisdom is and what inteligence
If you don't plan on spending 50 hours on reading the VN you might as well go with F/Z and then pick UBW 2014. Stop listening to /a/ sheeple and avoid TM threads.
>Intelligence has been defined in many different ways such as in terms of one's capacity for logic, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, learning, emotional knowledge, memory, planning, creativity and problem solving. It can also be more generally described as the ability to perceive and/or retain knowledge or information and apply it to itself or other instances of knowledge or information creating referable understanding models of any size, density, or complexity, due to any conscious or subconscious imposed will or instruction to do so.
>Wisdom (sophia) is the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight, with good intentions. Wisdom has been regarded as one of four cardinal virtues; and as a virtue, it is a habit or disposition to perform the action with the highest degree of adequacy under any given circumstance. This implies a possession of knowledge or the seeking thereof in order to apply it to the given circumstance. This involves an understanding of people, things, events, situations, and the willingness as well as the ability to apply perception, judgement, and action in keeping with the understanding of what is the optimal course of action. It often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions") so that the universal principle of reason prevails to determine one's action. In short, wisdom is a disposition to find the truth coupled with an optimum judgement as to what actions should be taken in order to deliver the correct outcome.
Basically Intelligence is book-smart and Wisdom is good decision-making
Saibah never realy seemed booksmart.
And let's not even start with decision making.
Whatever you do, don't watch the DEEN anime. There's the new UBW anime which is good. If you want the source there's the VN. Ignore the trolls telling you to watch DEEN, if you watch it you'll be disappointed by how bad it is. I warned you.
>Saibah never realy seemed booksmart.
She has to be to lead an army and run a kingdom.
Saber knew that she had to attack Caster before she gains more power and because of her values.
But she doesn't understand the possible danger and the situations around it (probably because she relies on instinct)
Character with high intelligence and low wisdom thinks they they have the answers, but often failed to account for the situations and consequences.
Dead men don't talk and evidently the Nazis already know anyway since they want the holy grail.
Why are the Nazis there anyway I thought the Germans and Japanese mostly stayed out of each others' wars
Because the Nazis were infamous for their research into the occult.
Hence why you see all the popular media involve them with ancient artifacts and magic. Such as the spear of longinus being associated with Hitler like in DC and Persona2.
And not to mention the Holy Grail, like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusades.
So they followed the rumors and came to Japan for the fake holy grail?
>She has to be to lead an army and run a kingdom.
>implying she didn't just pull some retard sword out of a stone
>implying hereditary kingship works that way
Her kingdom fell apart for a reason.
Except the VN stated that she was a good if distant king. Even Lancelot thought so.
>Kingdom fell apart
>fucked everything up
Pretty shitty measure of good.
Except the Saber was King Arthur the exemplary king that the legends was about. The point of the legends is not matter how great a King is, it wouldn't last without exemplary subjects too.
>Kingdom fell apart
>fucked everything up
The same could be said for Alexander.
Alexander had his shit fall apart on purpose. He didn't want other people to control his empire and never named an heir on purpose. It's kind of a difference.
But this is all an aside anyways and you're changing the topic. Even if Alexander was a bad king as well that wouldn't really make Saber any better.
>Kingdom fell apart
So it's all Morgan le Fay's fault. Got it.
Ha ha yeah it's everyone's fault except the person in charge of keeping it together. Good try.
Every kingdom has enemies, external or internal. It's the king's mission to defeat them. Keep trying to rationalize the fact saber fucked everything up, even though that's what her entire route is about, how much she fucked things up.
>Alexander had his shit fall apart on purpose. He didn't want other people to control his empire and never named an heir on purpose. It's kind of a difference.
No, that never happened, and you know shit about history.
Alexander's companions asked him on his deathbed to whom he bequeathed his kingdom; his laconic reply was "tôi kratistôi"—"to the strongest"
Which caused all sorts of problems and pretty much divided the empire.
And Alexander's subjects hated that Alexander want them to adopt Persian custom and wives, and hated how Alexander made himself more Persian in customs instead of Greek.
>No, that never happened, and you know shit about history.
Yeah, good try and totally relevant. Why don't you try reading into some motivation behind why he said that? The guy was bitter at his underlings.
All you have proven is that you have shitty reading comprehension.
I bet you think Cú Chulainn is the shittiest hero for being all responsible for his own downfall.
>All you have proven is that you have shitty reading comprehension.
Oh man, look how mad at being wrong you are! You're attacking an anonymous person's "reading comprehension". It's embarrassing that you can't even argue the point now. Is this always what you do when you lose an argument spectacularly?
Of course I feel bad for you, you're trying to argue that a good king lets her kingdom fall apart. It's not exactly a winnable position. Maybe you should just give up and learn for next time?
Source on this shit now.
You know you are just speaking about yourself don't you?
I bet you know shit about the Arthurian cycle.
Its in the F/Z LNs:
Now, even the last thread of hope had been ground out of existence, but in Saber’s
heart still flared a flame of anger.
Chances of victory, or tactics—None of that mattered any more. Saber only thought
it unforgivable—she could not forgive that even now, there was still someone who
stood between her and the Grail.
"...You, get out of the way…”
Saber’s low voice was filled with hatred. The insane obsession caused her once
clear jade eyes to fill with a murky yellow-brown.
"The Grail… is mine… !”
The many wounds on Saber’s body could not stop her; roaring, she swung her
sword at Archer.
EMIYA never accepted utilitarianism as a valid method like Kiritsugu though. He had to make difficult choices again and again but always believed that would be the last time he did that. He never saw people as numbers. He never surrendered to the mercilesness of reality until he became a CG.
So now you have the magic ability to reading Alexander the Great's mind? You are the equivalent of Bible thumpers of the south.
>The insane obsession caused her once
clear jade eyes to fill with a murky yellow-brown.
Holy crap, I read the novel but I totally forgot this part.
Kiritsugu didn't accept it either.
"This... is what you wanted to show me?"
Even as Kiritsugu recalled his nausea at the aim of this vile game, he listened intently to the thing that called itself the "will of the Holy Grail".
[That's right. This is your truth. The answer within Emiya Kiritsugu. In other words, the acts that should be carried out by the Holy Grail as a wishing machine.]
"No!" Kiritsugu shouted, with his hands stained by blood.
"I didn't wish for something like this! I wanted some other method... that's why I had no choice but to rely on a miracle..."
[A method you yourself are not aware of could not possibly be included into your desire. You wished for the salvation of the world; therefore, it can only be realized by
the means you are aware of.]
"To hell with that! How is... this a miracle?!"
[It is a miracle. What you had once aspired for, the deed that you were unable to achieve alone will finally be carried out on a scope unreachable by the hands of men. This is nothing if not a miracle.]
Numbers don't lie anon
Fate/Zero Anime Visual Guide II - Commentary: Episode 24 "The Last Command Seal", p.166
>Narita: Since the Holy Grail itself was only a clump of magical energy, wishing for "Saving the World" without specifying the method would not work. If Kiritsugu had no power or wealth, but knew "the method of Saving the World", it may be possible for the Grail to carry it out.... Kiritsugu was presented with such a vision of "what would happened if the World was saved" because Kiritsugu only knew of "sacrificing few for the benefit of many". However, since the Grail at this time was tainted by Angra Mainyu, Kiritsugu was presented with the most malicious imagery of his "saved World".
>Narita: If "Saving the World" was wished upon the Grail as the Grail had presented, what would happen?
>Mashin: It would certainly realize it a la The Monkey's Paw.
>Every kingdom has enemies, external or internal. It's the king's mission to defeat them.
And technically, it's not the king's fault if the enemies are too powerful to overcome. It doesn't mean they're a bad king, even, if it was not the king's actions that made the enemies.
Arthur could not hope to fix the root problem, that Morgan was a magical bitch, and that says nothing about his ability to rule.
>Who the fuck designed that chart?
It's one of those random internet charts that generates stats based on a name as the seed. Please don't pay attention to it.
Is there an updated version of that Servant status sheet?
yes it is. don't watch it.
Shirou never wanted to save the world. He knew that shit was fucking stupid. He just wanted people on his view to not cry.
Except he did:
>I bet you know shit about the Arthurian cycle.
I liked the part where Arthur had a vagina and was a horrible King.
Oh wait we're talking about Saber!
I just read a summary of the Fate route. Why would I want to play the shitty VN when I can just watch the best two routes in anime form?
Because you should read the two better routes first.
Especialy since we don't know whether Ufotable will fuck something major up
>So now you have the magic ability to reading Alexander the Great's mind? You are the equivalent of Bible thumpers of the south.
>And Alexander's subjects hated that Alexander want them to adopt Persian custom and wives, and hated how Alexander made himself more Persian in customs instead of Greek.
Stop it you magical mind reading bible thumper! How are you reading their minds!?
Now you are just using shitty fallacy.
They're too fucking long. I've got drawings I need to fap to. I'm a very busy man.
It fits just fine with the myths. Arthur used his apparent dick exactly once, and Type-Moon gave her a dick for that instance too.
Except it was stated in the fucking historical sources.
>Except it was stated in the fucking historical sources.
The historical sources huh?
Those are never subjective at all.
Did you know Herodotus talked about Hercules being a real demigod with full conviction? I guess those guys were mind readers.
Stop being a joke.Trying to sidetrack an argument about how dumb Saber is with all this failure of yours is really getting old. Saber is not Arthur from the Arthurian cycle. Her entire route was about how she made stupid choices and alienated her subjects and those she needed to rule the country.
No good leader would have done that. The reason she wanted the grail was to make it so she never existed because she believed it would have saved her country.
These are all explicit things. You can interpret it different if you want, but you're going to have a fringe interpretation.
This is what fate threads have become. I never thought I'd type this, but I miss the powerlevel arguements.
>Now you are just using shitty fallacy.
Which fallacy? The one where I say that it's a different Arthur because it is? Yes. Total fallacy. You know fallacies are labeled right? They are classified types of poor arguments which are easy to demonstrate. They are not just things which you disagree with.
The differences between Artoria's life and King Arthur's myth (specifically, Le Morte D'Arthur version) are negligible.
Except it wasn't her failing, and you only mentioned one path of leadership (there are tons of arguments on what kind of leadership is the best):
The battles of the new king were indeed the acts of a god of war.
The king always led from the front.
No enemies could stand in her way.
Arturia, the god of war.
There was no defeat for a body admired as a dragon in human form.
For ten years and twelve battles, she knew only victory.
Those were the days she ran through as the king.
She never turned back and was never disgraced.
She was raised as the king and fulfilled her obligations as the king.
The people living in fear of savage invasions wanted a strong king, and the knights of the battlefield would only follow an excellent commander.
The king met all of these criteria.
And sono one questioned who the king was.
It doesn't matter if the king is a child or a woman.
The only point is that it must function as the "king" to protect the country.
The new king was fair and selfless, and always stood in front of the army, defeating enemies on the battlefield.
Many enemies and many people died, but the king's choices were always correct and she served as the "king" better than anyone else.
There was no doubt and no need for doubt while the king was right.
A king is not human.
One cannot protect the people with human emotions.
She kept that oath strictly.
She settled every problem and worked hard in government affairs.
She balanced the country without any deviations and punished people without a single mistake.
And after ending yet another battle in victory, commanding the people without disorder, and punishing hundreds of criminals...
"King Arthur does not understand human feelings."
A knight close to her murmured.
Perhaps everyone felt that way.
The more perfect she became as the king, the more they questioned her as a ruler.
A person without human emotion cannot rule over others.
You use one contradiction like the fact that Arthur was a girl to claim that she is completely unlike King Arthur.
You're spinning your wheels. I'm glad you've learned one of many thing a fallacy is not. Was that a painful definition for you? How long on Wikipedia did you spend to figure out how incorrect you were?
Now that you've retreated to negligible from fallacy, your argument is still a total joke.
Yes. Saber is baaaaaaaarely different. She's basically the exact same thing.
I remember the part in the Le Mort D'Arthur version where she tried to erase herself from the timeline because she thought she was a shitty king and it would save her country.
That part was really gripping.
that wasn't my post you idiot.
>You use one contradiction like the fact that Arthur was a girl to claim that she is completely unlike King Arthur.
You just made something up the other person wasn't saying. That actually is a fallacy. That's called a straw man. Maybe you can think about why you're so desperate to be right you have to actually use a fallacy?
>that wasn't my post you idiot.
That person has a better grasp on fallacies and arguments than you then. Maybe you should learn something?
Except you were fucking saying it.
>I liked the part where Arthur had a vagina and was a horrible King.
>Oh wait we're talking about Saber!
It is a fucking fallacy, you said it yourself it is straw manning
Not this shit again. Read the VN or fuck off.
Also, saber will get raped in this rute.
>I remember the part in the Le Mort D'Arthur version where she tried to erase herself
from the timeline because she thought she was a shitty king and it would save her
canon issues to the Arthurian mythos aside, it doesn't contradict it because she was in a
frozen time during the contract, but then gave up the wish and followed what happened after the battle.
>>I liked the part where Arthur had a vagina and was a horrible King.
>>Oh wait we're talking about Saber!
It's called pointing out they're different. You really don't understand saber is different?
Trying to claim that means they're
is not the same thing at all.
Do you really not understand that difference? Be honest.
She was humiliated and totured not raped.
Do you think we'll get the HGW explanations that were Rin's inner thoughts in the prologue as infodumps from Kotomine next episode?
>canon issues to the Arthurian mythos aside, it doesn't contradict it because she was in a
>frozen time during the contract, but then gave up the wish and followed what happened after the battle.
And back to the very main point of the argument
>saber wishes she was never king because she knows how shitty she was and thinks it would save her country
She was a shitty king.
nice try backpedaling.
Rin kill you in the VN.
and you have no idea what what a shitty king is. You are only basing it on your own idea what is a King.
If they skip the talks about Rin's flab of mind and actual flab I'm going to be sad.
>nice try backpedaling.
Trying to keep the main point of the argument focused while you go off on random tangents is back peddling? Ok.
I think it was pretty clear that saber has some pretty important difference, like a vagina, from the previous incarnations.
By the way saber was a shitty King. Gilg and Rider agreed. So did Nasu considering its what the fate route was about. So did saber seeing as she was trying to remove herself from the timeline as to not fuck up her own kingdom with her inept ruling.
>and you have no idea what what a shitty king is. You are only basing it on your own idea what is a King.
Saber believed she was shit at it.
Rider believed she was shit at it.
Gilg believed she was shit at it.
Let's put down some criteria
1. Doesn't have kingdom fall apart
>By the way saber was a shitty King. Gilg and Rider agreed. So did Nasu considering its what the fate route was about. So did saber seeing as she was trying to remove herself from the timeline as to not fuck up her own kingdom with her inept ruling.
Okay it is clear you have shitty reading comprehension if that's what you thought.
I bet you only watched the F/Z Anime.
Saber's only flaw as king was that she was too good a king. Her subjects demanded the Kind of King she become and when she performed beyound everyone's wildest expectations, some people (with prompting from Morgan and Mordred) were uncomfortable with her.
Gil and Rider also see eachother as shitty Kings. There is no hard or fast rule of Kingship. All three governed as they wanted. If the happiness of the general population is the way of measuring "success" then Saber would win.
>only watched F/Z
>main argument is fate route
I don't think zero covered the fate route. I don't think they went over the fact she was trying to remove herself from the timeline in Zero.
Your deduction skills aren't really passable.
Fate/Zero was indeed awesome. imo, the early-middle(basically everything Caster related) really drags it down, but it starts and finishes strong, and that's what counts.
FSN has a better start (and more cheerful).
"The Holy Grail War. Good grief." - Archer
Go with the new FSN, I love the look of the show already. Just remember that some of the twists in the last story Heaven's Feel will be revealed because you watched the prequel first.
It doesn't matter how you get into this, as long as you are having fun. I got into it with the first anime, then UBW movie blindly, then I checked out the rest of the translated stuff.
>Saber's only flaw as king was that she was too good a king.
I'm so good at being a king my country fell apart.
You have a poor definition of '"good". Maybe you should examine your criteria.
If anything, her actions and thought process that she arrived at at the end of F/Z were the logical endpoint of Chivalry, the code that she ruled and lived by.
Probably not just Kotomine, but also sprinkled along the way to the church and back.
Anon, Im only going by what the VN said.
She governed so well and so justly within the code of chivalry that some of her subjects, with the PROMPTING OF MORGAN AND MORDRED (this is important) thought that she wasnt human and that made them uncomfortable.
The point of the legends was that an ideal King is not enough to rule over a kingdom, the subjects must be exemplary too.
>So did Nasu considering its what the fate route was about.
What? The Fate route was about acceptance of one's mistakes and the inevitable, the rest is backdrop.
At the end of the day, bait-kun, no King rules forever.
You could run your Kingdom into the ground and die chasing a stupid dream like Iskander or you can abuse it and ultimately abandon it like Gil did, or you can try your utmost hardest and the fickle population who loved you for it one day now dislike you for it the next and rebel like what happened to Saber.
If their actions are to be judged by the concern and love they had for their people and country, then Saber wins by a hilarious margin.
Next Episode should be pure exposition from Rin and Kotomine
Yes, she was amazing at following a code of chivalry and being just.
She was a "good" king in the sense of the word good versus evil.
She was a terrible king in the sense of her country fell apart and skill as a leader. She alienated her subordinates because of her gender issues.
Anyone with any kind of brainpower/wisdom would see that maybe having your subordinates in power not be alienated is a good thing.
Yes, it's a sequel
Don't bother with the VN, it's shit
>I remember the part in the Le Mort D'Arthur version where she tried to erase herself from the timeline because she thought she was a shitty king and it would save her country.
We have nothing to indicate what Arthur thought about the situation, but the idea that he was unhappy about it and would undo it if he could is not out of character.
The complete "fuck, undo EVERYTHING" reaction came only after she clashed with Lancelot.
>If their actions are to be judged by the concern and love they had for their people and country, then Saber wins by a hilarious margin.
But they're not. The entire argument started off someone claiming saber was smart because she ruled a country. Her love and justice is meaningless.
>. She alienated her subordinates because of her gender issues.
No, she did that because HER POPULATION DEMANDED THAT SHE RULED LIKE THIS.
Her subjects demanded a ruler that elevated themselves beyond normal human pettiness. And the ultimate irony is that this human pettiness is what ultimately undermined her.
As an anon above said, to be a Perfect King is not enough. One must also have Perfect Subjects.
Your post is an unrelated tangent. We have nothing to show that he didn't think any infinite number of things. He also didn't have a vagina. They're not the same person the myth was modified by Nasu. Stop being a child about this point.
>>1. Doesn't have kingdom fall apart
>current kingdoms still relevant in the modern era
Every king confirmed for being shit king.
You missed the entire point of the King's Banquet, all of the kings were flawed.
Gilgamesh was a tyrant, which he acknowledges himself. and He destroyed his own country in the Nasuverse
Iskander was a glory hound that didn't care about how to make his empire last and cared primarily about conquerering. And many historians think he is mass murderer and full of violent temper. And he himself said this:
“As king, you must have stronger desires than anyone else. You must be more magnificent, more easily angered than everyone else! He should be both pure and chaotic, a man who was more real than any other man. Only through this, could your subjects be impressed by the king, and only this, would the message of 'if only I was king, that would be wondrous' would be imprinted upon the people’s heart”
Saber's problem was that she was too distant from her subjects due to wanting to be an impartial king, which means her Subjects didn't relate to her and have no strong loyalty.
Her goal changed from F/Z to F/SN
She was smart. Smart enough to have created a near idyllic Kingdom and rule it without any issues for more than 10 years in a time when Kings and Kingdoms lived and died very quickly and there was no security for anyone.
The modifications were minor. Lack or presence of vagina is negligible.
Likelihood that Arthur was unhappy with the battle of Camlann and ruin of his nation is high.
Likelihood he would redo it is extremely high.
Artoria only decided she was a bad king after she learned how fucked up Lancelot was, not during the feast of kings.
How about we stick to kingdoms that didn't fall apart underneath their ruler's rule in the hayday of kingdoms rather than going to a childish extreme?
And King Arthur's character varies a lot from different tellings of the legends.
Actually, they all thought the other was equally as shitty.
Your bait is weak. They all come from different times with different people and different priorities.
Alright, then King Arthur's still a good king, britain continued with Sir Bedivere as a vassal even after Mordred's Rebellion.
>Actually, they all thought the other was equally as shitty.
You're actually going to say Rider and Gilg didn't have respect for each other higher than that of what they had for Saber? Ha ha.
>which means her Subjects didn't relate to her and have no strong loyalty.
Which in itself is wrong. The majority of her subjects believed in and fought for Saber.
Morgan and Mordred didnt manage to convince the majority. Hell, its more than likely that Saber could have recovered and stabilised her Kingdom at least for a few years if Mordred's weapon didnt have a "sneak attack upon the death of its user" effect on it.
Because Rider follows his own desires no matter what, and have the power to back it up.
Gilgamesh was all about following his own desires (which he talks about in F/E CCC), and have the power to back it up.
Of course Gilgamesh would respect Iskander.
>The complete "fuck, undo EVERYTHING" reaction came only after she clashed with Lancelot.
F/SN was written before the concept of Zero was even an idea
Do you honestly think that neither had respect for Saber?
Though they disagreed with her methods and thought process, both of them were in awe of her when she Excalliblasted Caster's Eldritch abomination and both admitted that her legend and choises had a special kind of lonely nobility to them.
>Alright, then King Arthur's still a good king, britain continued with Sir Bedivere as a vassal even after Mordred's Rebellion.
>Ruled by a vassal
>Fell apart shortly after
Great job Saber.
Not to mention Gawain turned away Lancelot and his forces, which would have secured her victory
Zero remains canon, even if it's a retcon.
you should have played FSN first faget.
Her sword pew pewing well is kind of unrelated to her skill as a ruler.
Lasted just as long as Iskanders and Iskander died like a bitch without achieving what he wanted and Gil destroyed his own kingdom
Great job Iskander and Gilgamesh
And from Fate/Extra CCC, in Enkidu's point of view.
>Years passed, and that boy grew into a young man. I acknowledged that the gods’ fears had been correct. In only a few years he had become a different person. Despotism. Tyranny. Coercion. Levies. As much luxury as possible, to satisfy his own selfish desires. Why did it come to this, the people of Uruk lamented. We never thought it would go this far, the gods fretted.
>Split into for warring vassals
>Fell apart shortly after
Great job Iskander.
There's no "good king" for your measurement. Nobody has made an eternal kingdom.
Iskander didn't even setup up the proper infastructure to save his empire.
So, you havnt watched or read F/Z where both watch in awe and appraisal when she delivers the Excalliblast?
Protip: It wasnt the Excalliblast that was important. It was the symbol and ultimate representation of her skill and ability as a ruler who shouldered the burden of her entire country as her own.
I guess you missed the Part where we already talked about this some posts up and you're wrong.
>and Gil destroyed his own kingdom
Y'know I have no idea what Nasu thought writing this into continuity.
Uruk lasted for a thousand years after the reign of Gilgamesh, until Babylon came to power and crushed all the other kingdoms.
>Gawain a shit
News at 11
What a shitty king.
I guess you missed the part where you were blown the fuck out entirely.
>Y'know I have no idea what Nasu thought writing this into continuity.
All three kings are misrepresented
>Arthur is a girl with angst
>Gils kingdom is destroyed
>All of Iskander's troops were loyal and would follow him anywhere, despite every single source stating they were constantly going behind his back and constantly trying to get him to go home
From all the post, it pretty much heavily suggested he only watched the F/Z Anime which was a clumsy adaptation that missed out on many characterization and details (especially for Kotomine and Kiritsugu).
But it wasnt HIS Uruk.
Again, NO KING RULES FOREVER.
>So, you havnt watched or read F/Z where both watch in awe and appraisal when she delivers the Excalliblast?
They watched in awe and "appraisal" huh?
Amazing a protip! Are you a professional reader?
>It wasnt the Excalliblast that was important. It was the symbol and ultimate representation of her skill and ability as a ruler who shouldered the burden of her entire country as her own.
Pewpewing a monster demonstrates regal prowess. I would've never guessed. Thank you for your protip, you stupid piece of shit.
It's not "all of Iskander's troops". Only his elite Companion cavalry show up. His army was numbered in the hundreds of thousands, Ionioi Hetairoi numbers around 10,000.
These entire threads starting from the first post is a huge troll. Following that it's just trolls trolling trolls.
Be that as it may, the F/Z anime still has this moment with Iskander and Gil watching the Excalliblast.
Its what makes Iskander respect her way of rule, even if he doesnt agree with it and its what makes Gil want her as a wife.
>whole lot of greentext
>whole lot of flippant bait
>not actual rebutal
>clear that he hasnt read the LN and didnt pay attention at all to the anime
Either a secondary or a lame baitmaster. Which do you want me to view you as?
>Pewpewing a monster demonstrates regal prowess. I would've never guessed. Thank you for your protip, you stupid piece of shit.
Its not me that said it, secondary-kun. That comes straight from both Iskander and Gilgamesh
3/10 though. Here is that reply you are desperate for.
>Pewpewing a monster demonstrates regal prowess. I would've never guessed
When your lasers are literally made out of victory, you're goddamn right it does.
>clumsy adaptation that missed out on many characterization and details
It's a fantastic adaptation. Of course it isn't 1:1 perfect, but compared to most adaptations, and especially LN adaptations, it's really top tier.
You pretty much outted yourself as a secondary that never read the F/Z LNs.
Yes- this is truly the knight's ideal.
It was the crystallization of everything etched in the hearts of those who were scattered at the
radiance; those who were placed on the bloody hell called a battlefield, fully exposed to the
fear of death and despair, and whom still cling to a desire: "to be exalted."
As if illuminating this holy sword was their ultimate duty, the light condensed endlessly,
merging to for a ray of blinding brilliance.
Beneath the brilliance of this intensive and clear light, no one could speak a single word.
The figure of the hero that once illuminated the darkness of a battle-ravaged world blacker
Unyielding for ten years, undefeated in twelve battles, this peerless achievement, this
incomparable glory; they transcend time and space, and will never be forgotten.
This stunningly brilliant holy sword is indeed the dream that all warriors throughout time
who have passed away in battle have pursued and longed for their entire life – the
materialization of all their prayers that was named ‘glory’.
“Do you see it, King of Conquerors? This is Saber’s light.”
Archer addressed the empty space beside him. Rider, who had just experienced a merciless
fight, was letting the chariot pulled by divine bulls remain still in the air, and was gazing
dazedly at the ultimate light Excaliber was emanating.
“Do you still not want to acknowledge her after witnessing that ray of light?”
Rider snorted, dismissing Archer’s question. However, what was on his face as not despite or
mockery, but a solemnity as if he was looking out over a thing of tragic grandeur.
“It was indeed because she took upon her shoulders the hope of every man of the time that
she’s able to display such might – it’s painful precisely because it is so blindingly brilliant.
Who could have thought that the person carrying such a heavy weight is only a little girl who
liked to dream?”
So /a/ I've tried watching the original air of the show and I couldn't watch it tried the VN got further but got side tracked is FSN even worth it?
if you want to read/watch it for the story, sure. if you want to troll like >>115336331 then you don't need to actually read it.
Blown the fuck out mercilessly.
I'm still mad at how much Excalibur is wanked
>From all the post, it pretty much heavily suggested he only watched the F/Z Anime
You realize this entire argument started from people who thought saber was retarded for actions she took in Fate right? Actions like attacking the Ryuudou temple? Actions like trying to fight with Lancer's wound? Actions like using all her mana against assassin?
Saber is an idiot in the fate route. Her being king doesn't prove she's intelligent, because she fucked that up too. Everything here is following from this point. You really do get sidetracked very easily.
Do you have ADD?
Excallibur is wanked fucking everywhere in fantasy, brosef.
F/SN isnt the first and it wont be the last. In the Final Fantasy series, the ONLY CHARACTER to transcend each game only does so because he is searching for Excallibur.
It's the holy sword of the immortal once and future king, chosen by god to rule for eternity.
Arthur's legend was fucking massive wank left and right. Everyone except Sir Balin. Sir Balin makes everything worse.
So much victory her kingdom fell apart.
I haven't seen this much backpedaling since the invention of backpedaling.
And you clearly have no idea what the different between intelligence and wisdom is.
I was just legitly curious if any of the animes are good or not the VN wasn't bad I just got side tracked from finishing it
>all this backpeddling after getting brutally BTFO
Got to love it. And in the Fate route, no other servant or master was being proactive. Someone had to go out hunting for them. It wasnt the 4th war where the masters and servants all got in eachothers faces, the 5th war was a much more secretive and slow paced war.
Because her own clone-daughter decided to oppose her at the behest of her evil magic witch sister. Not really her fault.
Attack Ryuudon temple when it's obviously a trap. So wise. Good argument.
Everything about the Arthurian cycle was wanked by everybody.
The french didn't think that was enough and created their gary stu Galahad to be the ultimate Christian that obtain the holy grail. (They've also replaced Gawain from the holy grail quest because they think he's too pagan or something)
>In the Final Fantasy series, the ONLY CHARACTER to transcend each game only does so because he is searching for Excallibur.
And ironically, he is called Gilgamesh.
She's very hotheaded and eager to battle. Why do you think she needed Bedivere?
>I haven't seen this much backpedaling
>everyone who doesn't think saber is the same person
So you forgotten the argument too?
It was about Saber having low wisdom due to relying on instincts, but have the intelligence to lead an army and rule a kingdom.
>She's very hotheaded and eager to battle. Why do you think she needed Bedivere?
Because she cannot make smart or wise decisions on her own?
Her Kingdom would have recovered. It wasnt so fractured by Morgan and Mordred that it had gone beyond the brink.
Only think that stopped that was the hax that Mordred's sword had attached to it.
>but have the intelligence to lead an army and rule a kingdom.
That fell apart because she was shit at it. Just like she's shit at not running into a total trap while literally everyone else on her team is telling her it's a trap.
>trying sound effects
You arnt on reddit anymore, bait-kun.
The options were:
1) Let Caster camp on the leylines unopposed for as long as she wants until she has enough power and prana to fuck up everyone
2) Spring the trap and hope you come out on top.
She went for the latter and it worked. It is fucking base level strategy.
now you just ignored the arguments in the thread
and you conveniently always chose to ignore this:
Do you think that if you repeat something enough times, it will become true?
This is basically what he is.
>get BTFO about Saber being a bad king
>retreat to this "intelligence" argument with absolutely nothing to back it up
>get further BTFO here >>115336939
Cherrypicking moments really wont work for you, bait-kun. People here have been talking about this series for nearly 7 years here. We know it far too well for misinformation to work.
3) Wait one fucking day for Archer to heal and then attack with Rin and Archer helping
You know, the non-retarded route?
>1) Let Caster camp on the leylines unopposed for as long as she wants until she has enough power and prana to fuck up everyone
pretty much, this was even talked before in this thread.
How do you think Saber would feel to know that a bunch of nerds are arguing so passionately about how good/bad of a king and Servant she was? Would she be flattered?
Show stopper. People who think Saber is smart all just said "oh" to themselves and went home.
Springing a trap so that its user doesnt become an even bigger problem later on is a perfectly wise thing to do.
>wait for Archer to heal
Archer wouldnt recover from his wound adequately for ages. Its why he sacrificed himself, as it was his last bit of use.
And trying to compare and superimpose the situation in one route onto another is fucking stupid.
>replying to yourself
Please stop looking this desperate. Its unsightly.
>Archer wouldnt recover from his wound adequately for ages.
Aren't you embarrassed having to make things up? Attacking with Rin was the obvious and smart decision. Face it you're wrong.
you just conveniently forgot what the point of the argument about the attack on the temple was didn't you.
>wait for archer to heal
>he goes and gets killed by Berserker
Yeh, great idea there.
Anon, if you'd read the fate route you'd actually realise that there was no oppertunity for this fanwank you are proposing to have happened.
They never had official alliance. Rin only offer to get Shirou up to speed for his help before making him the enemy again.
The point was Saber was stupid for doing it. If Assassin wasn't somehow a standup guy she would've died. He let her live when she fell over unconscious from being a retard with her mana usage.
>They never had official alliance. Rin only offer to get Shirou up to speed for his help before making him the enemy again.
Someone didn't read the Fate route. Try going past the first few pages. They form a real alliance later on. Maybe you should try reading before you make an argument about something you haven't read?
-Never had an official alliance
-No oppertunity for this to happen as events progressed quickly after Saber's fight with Rider and Archer died shortly afterwards.
All of the of characters were stupid in F/SN anyway
it's not their fault that Nasu is a hack
>lame baiter getting BTFO hard
If you are going to try and pretend that you have knowledge about the nasuverse to troll with, you will need to be more convinving than this.
Can Accelerator block gae bolga without luck?
>hurrr why didnt things happen the way I say they should have happened durrrr hack durrrr
You sure spoken like a secondary, the official alliance wasn't until way later.
All of this could have been avoided if Nasu had just taken the D&D stuff one step further and given everyone a full set of ability scores for their character sheets
So an action book. Tell me a good one
>Springing a trap so that its user doesnt become an even bigger problem later on is a perfectly wise thing to do.
Running into a trap while with no plan to get out isn't a smart plan.
Especialy if following her plan gets her master killed
Alliance only happens much later, bro. And it led to Archer's death in that route pretty quickly.
Again, your misinformation wont work here. You have already been BTFO hard for talking about shit that you know nothing about here >>115334361
>-Never had an official alliance
Wait, you're the one seriously trying to say other people haven't read the VN? Oh this is too good. I'm actually laughing at you.
They form a real alliance in Fate after Berserker rips open Shirou. It's official. When they attack Ryuudou if you choose to go along with saber's ridiculous retarded idea instead of waiting for her to sneak out Rin says she'll recover your body because you're allies. When Shinji tries to form an alliance in the fate route you decline because you're allied officially with Rin. When Shirou tells Rin, he asks if he should have asked her first because they're allies.
How can she plan for this?
If anything, a Saber attacking a Caster head on is 9 times of of 10 a great idea as the Saber class has resistance to the Caster class's magic.
>Alliance only happens much later, bro. And it led to Archer's death in that route pretty quickly.
No they get an alliance after Berserker rips Shirou up.
No. It's one step away from an Authority by CCC's measurement. It rewrites reality so the heart is stabbed. No amount of undoing the spear thrust prevents it.
And Saber felt that it is dangerous to allow the gathering of power from the citizens to go much longer, or the people would die. So she was also motivated by her knightly values.
You are getting too desperate now.
She was right on both accounts. Caster would become a huge fucking problem and lots of people would die.
I'm actually still shocked you didn't know Rin and Shirou had an official alliance.
Doesn't Rin propose an alliance after she patched Shirou up?
You switch to UBW and get a bad end if you refuse
>Doesn't Rin propose an alliance after she patched Shirou up?
Yes. The guy you're responding to hasn't actually read fate. That is exactly what happens.
Again, it was after the Temple scene.
Your misinformation wont work.
Its a moot point either way as Archer was still fucked up from Saber's hit.
Archer haven't recovered until 11th day.
>Its a moot point either way as Archer was still fucked up from Saber's hit.
It's not a moot point. You were trying to say bullshit about why would they listen to Rin she's not even their ally! Now you find out you're completely wrong.
I agree with your point but please learn to crop
Your whole point was that Archer could have helped them to attack the temple.
This point is fanfiction. He was either too injured to do anything and when he finally recovered enough, he was killed by Berserker.
What are you trying to argue exactly? I thought the point here was that "waiting for Archer to get better so he could help" isn't a viable strategy.
It's fanfiction because Saber is too stupid to wait.
Play the route. You cannot get over the gut feeling of how stupid saber is for sneaking out at night and almost dying, or if you go you get to die horribly as well.
The only reason Saber survives is Assassin doesn't finish her off. You literally have to carry her back home.
I would have liked more details as well to be honest. But the gist i generally got is that Nasu put the minimum into the fulff (Stat sheets and shit) because he didn't expect it to get so big, but at this stage he can't really go and rewrite everything.
Probably, Considering Gilgamesh himself had to attack the temple, forcing Caster on a desperate attempt to attack the Emiya residence.
The VN is mostly a waste of time, but fuck me if Nine Lives Blade Works isn't the most HYPE moment of any thing I've read/watched.
>too stupid to wait
Why would she rely on an injured Archer who she pretty much one-shot?
And if she did, Archer would have died fighting Berserker anyways.
Trying to insert your headcanon into the route is a stupid thing to do, though it is pretty amusing to watch.
>She was right on both accounts. Caster would become a huge fucking problem and lots of people would die.
I would like to point out saber's raid does nothing. She doesn't even injure assassin. Your point is completely invalid. It ends up using up Saber's mana reserves and putting them in a worse position.
I'm pretty sure we've already established that waiting was a dumb idea because Caster was only getting stronger with every day.
Are you daft? Saber going did nothing but hurt them. She used up mana which made them vulnerable and accomplished nothing except being at the mercy of Assassin.
So because the raid failed, attempting it in the first place was stupid because Saber's apparently supposed to be able to see into the future now?
>I'm pretty sure we've already established that waiting was a dumb idea because Caster was only getting stronger with every day.
No we haven't. THEY END UP HAVING TO WAIT. If you go in the game you die to the trap. If you don't go Saber violates your order and goes by herself gets almost killed and nothing is accomplished while ruining her own mana reserves and putting you in a VERY bad spot the rest of the game.
All saber did was risk dying on the mercy of assassin.
She learns Assassins moves and fucks him up the next time.
Again, your whole point is that seizing the initiative is somehow a bad thing. You can call her whatever names you like but it was Caster's great thinking at hijacking the Assassin class and using him as a guard that is the crux of the issue rather than Saber being "stupid"
As someone above pointed out to you, Casters are shit when confronted by Sabers. It was a sound strategy based on the mechanics of the grail war and the mechanics of the specific servants.
Now that I think about, didn't Gilgamesh had to also act because Caster took over the church in UBW?
From what we hear, Gilgamesh would have just stayed around and watch if Caster haven't took over the grail manifestition area and was trying to create her own grail.
>She learns Assassins moves and fucks him up the next time.
She never fights Assassin again in Fate
>So because the raid failed, attempting it in the first place was stupid because Saber's apparently supposed to be able to see into the future now?
It failed and it was obvious to everyone it would fail. That's the entire point of the argument.
She didn't even know it was Caster. There's no possible way she could've accounted for that.
>TAKING THE INITIATIVE AGAINST SOMEONE WHO IS MORE THAN HAPPY TO WAIT AND GAIN POWER = BAD
Dear god you are retarded.
What "ends up" happening is completely irrelevant to what was the best strategy based on what they knew at the time.
>It failed and it was obvious to everyone it would fail
Hindsight is 20/20.
You're either confusing your routes or haven't read them. She doesn't use that information for dick in Fate. Assassin just dies horribly later and she is sad.
So, are you seriously trying to tell us that Saber should have predicted that:
- Caster hijacked the Assassin class
- This assassin is barely an assassin and is more a highly proficient swordsman
You can only fanwank your own headcanon so much before you begin to sound completely retarded.
I think you just need to wrap this up, post a Frodo and move on.
>It failed and it was obvious to everyone it would fail. That's the entire point of the argument.
>SABER SHOULD HAVE PREDICTED THE FUTURE GAIS!!!!!
Not sure if troll or just retarded.
No, I'm seriously telling you she should've not walked into a horrible trap alone like a retard knowing it was a trap without even knowing what servant or how many were there, in what was obviously a fortified area.
Another anon but running straight into a trap was a bad move.
So you are telling us that she should have just let Caster grow in power and happily allowed her to camp
Yes, you are retarded.
You're squirming really hard in this corner you made for yourself aren't you?
Sick burn, bro, you told him
Actually I'm saying she should've waited for support from Rin Archer and Shirou. They were both wounded and in no state to be on the offensive.
Attacking drained her reserves, almost got her killed, and left them vulnrable.
There's also this factor.
I can't believe Saber fans are seriously trying to condone the attack on Ryuudou now. I would've tried arguing she wasn't thinking clearly and being stupid for a moment instead of trying to justify something so ridiculous.
>Everyone saying don't watch DEEN
>I watched both F/SN and UBW DEEN
Am I superior?
>Seibah btfo by Gilgamesh and Rider
It's more like this one guy was saying a bunch of patently retarded stuff, so now everyone is honor-bound to disagree with him pretty much regardless of what he's saying at this point. It's the magic of backpedaling.
Is it good?
So, have we decided who did a better job?
Commie or UTW?
Anyone got a comparison chart?
>honor bound to say stupid shit that doesn't make sense
Anyone have the dl link of servant stats?
That was pretty much my point. By starting out with something offensively stupid and gradually backing into a somewhat more reasonable position, he can prey on the naturally argumentative nature of anons to, well, make all this happen.
This is dumb.
Man, that version of Enuma Elish is so much cooler than backwards Excaliblast.
I wonder how they'll do Shirou's dreams.
Please don't make them CG.
The dreams about the hill of swords he has after he loses consciousness.
Surge of Utnapishtim is not really like Enuma Elish at all.
UTW's encode is worse but that might be the source they used.
UTW's script is a bit better.
It's on Nyaa. Search for Fate/Stay Night Realta Nua Windows.
The patch is here: forums/./nrvnqsr.com/showthread/./php/4745-Fate-Stay-Night-Realta-Nua-PC-version-Mirror-Moon-TL-insertion-project
Fuck you, I found it yesterday because some other guy helped me. Pay it forward.
I wish Strange Fake was released alredy. Can't wait to see that Enkidu wrecking shit. If they do him justice he'd be the most powerful Lancer, even more so than Karna.
Though I'm still irked he isn't a Berserker.
UBW only has Rin's dreams
Well, my point still stands.
The heavens shattering > A strong wind
Nope. Reread the beginning of 4th day.
It's a strong wind that cracks and grinds at reality.
>But the gist i generally got is that Nasu put the minimum into the fulff (Stat sheets and shit) because he didn't expect it to get so big
This so much we forget that the vn is just a hentai game and he ended up accidentally creating a really cool world and franchise for an action series when all he was thinking is how do i ghet the characters in this world to fuck mcs brains out semi realistically.
A wind's a wind.
You may as well say Surge of Utnapishtim's just some water.
Well it is; it's just presented way better.
Its the other way around. They didnt want to put in ero, but it was a good way to just get a bunch of autismbux.
You can't tell me Tsukihime or Fate were planned without any H-content.
I didnt say otherwise, its just that they werent focusing on it and it was shoe horned in. Hence the awful prose and the scarcity.
Will we ever get Fate/Prototype as another novel/series?
Of course. They are doing Fragments of Blue and Silver to build interest.
Though I hope they rework the plot so that it's different from what we've been told. And so that the heroic spirits that haven't been shown a lot so far (Assassin, Caster and maybe Berserker) could be changed instead of being the same as in F/SN.
Would the plot overall turn out different?
Any hope that F/Z Rider would come back
It would, but Iskander has 0% chance of returning. He wasn't summoned in Prototype universe, and we already know Rider in the 2nd Tokyo HGW is Perseus. I'd rather they don't change that.
Fair enough, Perseus seems like he could turn out to be a great character.
If the basic F/Z universe is the same, then no. The idea that the same heroic spirit can be summoned twice is unthinkable to FSN characters.
It isn't. This conversation started because we were discussing the LN prequel to F/P, haven't you realized?
Is Saber best girl?
What's the best version of the EMIYA theme? I like Ataraxia.
to this point I see no reason to watch the VN so just go ahead and start
read the summary if you must at the end everything will makes sense anyways
/Extra blows the others out of the water.
Why do people find Shirou to be a shit character?
Is Ufotable going to be like David Productions and adapt everything they can from Type Moon if that's the case?
> Fate/Prototype done by them
Probably honored that people cared so much about her time being King, but at the same time reaffirming her own viewpoints.
That or she sees everyone anon here like Shirou.