This is your fault. Look what happens when you pay the middleman.
Epic funny thread. ;)
13:3 in bottom left!
I don't even... Go troll elsewhere. Sage.
you better delete this thread mister
Did anyone notice how in the ep 1 of fate, subtitle at one point says "there's one blue and one white" talking about archer and lancer, while he definitely said blue and red?
So you like to pay for a poor service? are you idiots?
Just about everyone.
>implying anyone here pays CR
Who the fuck torrents anime with CR subs
Delete this shitty thread. No one here pays crunchyroll. The CR translation in your picture is correct though. Anyone who seriously translate stuff would tell you that. Now fuck off.
lmao why don't you just learn japanese if you care so such you autist
There's technically nothing wrong with that.
There's also technically nothing wrong with this, though people will argue whether she was using it in the brother sense, seeing she knows he is her adopted brother, or in the normal younger to older stranger sense (seeing she could have used ani, aniki, ani-san or ani-sama to specifically address him as brother I would be more inclined to say that mister is correct choice).
People will go for what is convenient over what is correct.
This is why speed subs and streaming will continue to be the bane of fansubbing.
I pay for crunchyroll
Do you also eat shit?
There's nothing wrong with translating onii-chan as mister when their relationship isn't clear.
Not only that, I pay for the privilege.
Ah is that you Daiz?
Fate fags everyone
No, but this is me and he's absolutely right.
Which subs should one trust that they're correct?
HS? Commie? Duwang?
I just like the convenience. For shows I really care about I will download them while airing episode by episode.
Fuck if I'm gonna download like six shows every week even if I don't like them that much.
>implying DLing six per week is a lot
You need better internet if this is a big deal for you. The rest of the world has moved on to fiber.
It's a spoiler. Archer = Shirou. Shirou in english means white. Get it?
I'm still on shitty cable, and I have no problem with downloading three or four episodes a night.
Or you can just use "brother" / leave it alone. It's obvious the translator had a compulsive need to localize everything.
ＡＫＡ ＭＥＡＮＳ ＲＥＤ
>I don't even
Or you can just watch it raw, you goddamn idiot.
You know declaring sage is against the rules right
I agree, but damn
Daiz please save encoding, so much banding this season!
士郎 != 白, anon.
I'm downloading full series all the time anon, downloading current airing episodes of shows I only sort of like seems silly.
Are there any other CR translations this bad?
Watch the whole second season of Chuunibyou.
CR translations are generally poor quality, and occasionally riddled with typos.
I don't understand how can anyone pay for this shit.
Bang! Zoom provide the translations. Keep in mind that the sacred script here will be used in the dub.
I remember someone complaining about Haikyuu and misspelled words.
It's bad, but still better than Funi.
/a/ is getting so casualized by secondaries these days that one day soon you won't be able to complain about honorifics being localized without being called a weaboo.
This is the future you chose, misters.
>Implying there's anything wrong with properly translating honorifics
This is you - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2FGgYp6mdk
Only in that Funimation uses hardsubs.
He said "あの青い人と赤い人と。。。" ("That blue guy, and red guy...") CR apologists, tell me where you see the character for 白い? (white)
that is a big fail that is a VERY big fail!
I will probably leave when /a/ stops complaining about streaming and actually enforces it. At that point it will be beyond the point of no return.
No, "-san" has a similar but different meaning to "Mister", "Oniichan" has a similar but still different meaning to "big brother", "Senpai" has a similar but different meaning to "senior".
By localizing them correctly you lose meaning. There's nothing weaboo about that.
Let's just not translate. That will solve everything.
Actually, there is no arguing, we know that she is using in the brother sense because that is her whole shtick. That actually develops into something later. There is a reason why she call him like that, and "mister" is not it.
You're pretty late on the train on that one, seeing as most of /a/ is totally fine with STREAMING QUALITY already - just look at all the people downloading and praising literal stream rips like HS!
And heeeere comes the DIDF, ruining anime one fail at a time.
/a/ is full of cunts!
Mods should ban everyone praising of posting HS!
Based Daiz saving anime
>Le shitposting meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeme.
Do I fit in now?
Oh wait. I need my epic fail anime image meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeme
By "correctly" I mean "contextually correctly". Of course high schoolers are not going to refer to each other as "Mister" and "Miss", and so on.
Because for many shows HS is the only option. Unless you want to wait weeks.
Not sure if bait. Trying hard to fit in?
not bait. I never download HS! Even if I have to wait 24hours for other fansubs
Fucking this. I have no interest in CR and their continued and deliberate destruction of fabsubbing.
Most translations that localize that much don't care about being contextually correct.
And there's nothing lost in including them in translations. It's not like the job of a translation is to strip out meaning.
It's amazing how stupid statements people can make about translation even when they manage to use the words "context" and "meaning" for once.
why is this thread still alive?
Did you know: When you stream a show, you still download it.
I didn't mind HS blatantly copypasting CR since I could just watch HS first, then download the good sub once it came out for archiving, and delete the HS version.
Suddenly a week ago I discover fansubbing is LITERALLY DEAD and now I want everyone at HS and CR to die in a fire.
Although I still don't understand why other groups just gave up and left, just because of simulcasts? Do they think people will suddenly stop valuing decent sub groups just because HS can get it out the door faster? I would like to think that nobody is pleb enough to actually archive HS.
How long till you drop Parasyte?
At least 24 weeks.
I only archive HS when there's absolutely nothing else available.
>believing even half the people who defend over localizing have watched the shit that's being criticized
A contextually accurate translation wouldn't be "mister." The word choice is supposed to reflect the ambiguity of Ilya's statement, encompassing multiple meanings. "Mister" just makes him a stranger.
Counting from july, amirite
People would get fed up with HS and CR releasing the day of broadcasts, while they took 2-3 days to release their releases, and only get a few hundred downloads.
Staff would also join CR, Daisuki, and other simulcasters because they could make money, and the scene is small enough that many of these people had been working with multiple groups.
Wasn't Daiz part of the group that did God Robes?
I'm downloading "[Underwater] Parasyte - the maxim - 01 (720p) [B6C960B9].mkv" right now to check the difference with the horriblesubs version. If the difference isn't big, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to go away.
Not even if there is no group subbing the show?
Yes, but translating kamui as godrobes is perfectly alright.
Goku Uniform/Ultima Uniform, on the other hand, is just misusing a fragment of an English word as a descriptive prefix. It's not technically correct, but it's not wrong either. It's just weird.
>using the term secondaries wrong
>muh mystical Japanese terms that have no corollary in Engish
There's nothing gained in leaving it as is either, it makes no sense in an English sentence and if you know the double meaning then you can hear its use for yourself.
Checked it. Daiz has some kind of autism.
I'll wait! Doesn't matter how much but I will wait!
A man stands true to his principle!
In fact it should be 'person'. Checkmate.
I'm guessing you didn't notice the awful banding that is showing up in all of HS releases lately? 8 bit is really starting to show its age. I thank Jesus and Daiz for 10 bit better gradients and lower filesize.
Maybe Illya could say "sup bro" to Shirou. That would preserve the double meaning.
That's a bit extreme, though I get the reason. I'll personally wait a week or so, but at some point you will just have to face reality.
I know but I supports fansubs. Thus I will keep on fighting the shitty HS/CR subs
Shhhh Sentai will hear you.
Sometimes you can wait for about a year, until the entire series is released on BD, and then another sub group will pick up the series.
Why can't HS just get somebody to fix up the CR subs a bit instead of just mindlessly ripping them as fast as possible?
It's not a race.
Of course, there's also the chance that it'll just be someone stealing Commie subs and re-encoding them for BDs with better typesetting.
If you want 20k downloads, you gotta be first.
There are already people who do that. They're called "99% of fansub groups".
They don't deserve the name.
Neo-/a/ has already happened
better to leave now than to stay and watch it become /v/
People don't want to do shit properly, they just want the attention you get from being first.
They're the tripfags of the translation world.
>better to leave now than to stay and watch it become /v/
Only neo-/a/ would give this much of a damn about fansubs.
Tru-/a/ watches raws.
It's fine to bash crunchy, but you're all showing your ignorance in this thread.
Onii-chan isn't only used for brother, it's also used by girls to address older men in a cute way, and yes, it means mister.
The plot hasn't shown anywhere that Illya is Shirou's sister, so that translation is correct.
Also who cares if it's horriblesubs, subtitles are just a clue to interpret the dialogue, if you can't catch up the meaning of the japanese dialogue by hearing it and using the subtitutles just as a clue you should consider killing yourself
>BD group stealing subs
Well that wouldn't be a problem in the first place then, as there would have been a group subbing it.
It could only mean mister in the same way some odd people informally says "sup brother" to some stranger on the street. Face it, it's a bad translation and they should've gone with Oniichan or brother given the future context of the show. What happened to /a? The majority can no longer recognize awful localization as bad?
>The plot hasn't shown anywhere
No, that's not what's important here.
It's foreshadowing, while remaining ambiguous enough that it could simply be a young girl's mannerisms. "Big Bro" would be a better translation than "Mister," if it didn't conflict with her speech pattern. But then, CR doesn't care about speech patterns, so they should've just gone for "Big Bro."
There are a lot of potential trolls/shitposters/actually serious posters who believe that translation requires as much localization as possible. I would argue that translation requires as little localization as possible, and that's how I've always done things.
What would you archive for Kuroko no Basuke S1?
Their leader is also tripfagging on 4chan like a retard
>Typing sage as part of your post.
2006 was 8 years ago.
It's a translation at the very least. Leaving it would mean it's NOT translated and what are subs for? To translate it to English (or whatever language) so we can understand it without ANY Japanese knowledge.
If you're weeb enough to care about honorifics then you should have no problem hearing them in the audio.
Better download reencoded Tokyo MX amirite
What is the best Fate/sub? Commie or UTW? I'm just going to imagine that UTW is better, but anyway
UTW, hands down. Their name even comes from Fate/Stay night. Commie has Daiz so stay away.
>Commie has Daiz
>little girls in Nipland call strangers onii-chan
Holy shit ahaha.
Commie gave Daiz the boot because he's an autistic faggot, you're thinking of Underwater
>I can hear Onii-chan being spoken
>I know what it means
>but I'm going to bitch about how it was translated in the subs because I have autism
Not everyone who watches this is going to know what Onii-chan means, you stupid fucking weeaboos. And don't pretend to get elitist. If you actually were, you wouldn't need subs in the first place.
>Unlimited Translation Works.
>Unlimited Blade Works.
I wonder who!
What's next you fucking weeaboo? Are you going to complain that the subs say "what" instead of "nani"?
>CR hires Jaka
>Translation quality goes down the next season
'Mister' is the correct translation. This is the little girl version of 'what are you having, niisan' that burly middle-aged shop owners would use to refer to a young man of no relation to themselves.
Twin Tails ep 1 was really shitty.
>Smells like teen spirit
>I don't like traps
And another one. Holy fuck.
That's a correct translation, if you'd assume the scene is shown from Shirou's viewpoint.
The correct translation is 'bro'.
>If you don't summon yours soon, you're gonna die, bro
>Smells like teen spirit
It's nice to be young.
>I don't like traps
But that's what Silver said?
That works disgustingly well. Quick, go make your own CR edit subs.
Here, I fixed it for you:
>If ya dunm summen yer's soon, you'z gon die brah
Perfect. I couldn't have done a better job.
Now we only need to translate senpai properly.
ay man if you dont summon soon ure gonna get rekt brude
>weeaboo is now used as an insult on /a/
It's over, boys.
That has always been the case.
Mister was a suitable translation.
The issue here is that there's no way to really translate the foreshadowing here in English without making it too heavy.
Neither Shirou nor an unknowing audience would think she is literally calling him her brother, so they'd interpret what she says as what we equate to "mister". Then later on it dawns on them that she was going for a double meaning.
There's not really any way to make that effect translate perfectly. There's the suggested "bro" but that diction just has connotations that doesn't fit Ilyasviel's character.
Okay I only heard she said something about shounen but apparently Jousou Shounen is the japanese term for traps. My bad.
It always has been, idiot.
You're one of those morons that uses the modern /v/ definition of "anyone who likes something Japanese".
>redirecting anyone to /v/ when you use /v/'s definition of the word
>The audience won't know
How absolutely retarded do you think people are?
Sure some people aren't gonna know but that's to be expected, it's only the JAPANESE LANGUAGE, I'm pretty sure someone watching an anime is going to expect that they are gonna talk in ways and use words they are unfamiliar with, that's no reason to completely replace them with inaccurate shit.
I hate to bring up video games but in one of the Mass Effect games there is a japanese character who addresses the main character with "san". Why? Because they're Japanese and that's how Japanese people talk and everyone with half a brain knows that and isn't gonna flip the fuck out going "OH MY FUCKING GOD! I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY SAID! I'M SO CONFUUUUUUUUUSED!"
>someone on the internet
>/a/ of all places
>admitting a mistake
They don't talk like that in English so it's shitty stereotyping on the part of the game devs.
More precisely it's just literally "cross dressing boy". Equivalent to trap is otokonoko 男の娘, a pun on 男の子.
I'm pretty sure Ilya being Shirou's sister isn't relevant at all in UBW. In fact I'm not sure but I don't think they even reveal it until HF.
There are a few lines that strongly suggest they are from the same family in UBW
When you translate, you translate for your intended audience.
What does your intended audience need to fully understand the meaning of a scene? Is your intended audience /a/, or people who are new to anime? Or a larger American audience?
Once you determine that, you can determine how you want to localize things.
Additionally, there's a lot more to a word and its usage than just its meaning. Sure, you may know that 'onii-san' means 'older brother figure', but do you know how it works in the culture or situation? How about how the meaning changes depending on the age and relation of the person using it? There's a lot going on, which isn't readily apparent to the casual student of Japanese (which you all are if you know what onii-san is).
That's why in cases like these, it's almost always better to use an English equivalent that can express the inherent meaning as well as the word itself. Don't confine yourself to the lexicogrammar, anon.
This is why we get tons of variation on onii-san: big bro, brother, mister, sir - we even omit it when it wouldn't be said in English (when it's used to show respect/relation to the person you're speaking to).
source: MA in Translation
Such as? Give me some examples. For one, this anime is cutting shit out, and if it's a couple lines here and there in relatively unimportant scenes they may not even show up. In addition, that's foreshadowing for HF, which we're not going to see in this particular anime.
I think it was during the whole heart scene and flashback were it talked about Illya's family, I read it a long time ago though so I don't remember it completely
This shouldn't even be translated, it's a good pun that's lost when put into English.
It's like this is a lie.
I believed you would come back.
Taking loberties is one thing, changing the meaning is another. As for the first example, disregarding the script writer's intentions is the sign of a bad translator and/or spmeone with no talent for reading and who shouldn't be translating anyway.
People pay for this.
>like this is a lie
I bet you always translate "Uso!" as "It's a lie!" instead of "No way!" or "You're shitting me!" or "It cannot be!"
You should be deverbalizing when you translate to get the meaning, then translate the meaning as accurately as possible. Don't box yourself into using the dictionary equivalent - translation is not about finding an exact equivalent, but about finding equivalent effect or meaning.
>It's like this is a lie
doesn't even sound good in English. We're much more likely to say
>This is like a dream
Because that's what's ingrained in our vernacular.
I hate some of the shit CR does, but they're not wrong here.
I am going with Commie, not a fan of what UTW did with the translations.
Is this a meme?
I went to watch and he said man in red.
Daiz, what do you think about honorifics in extremely non-japanese settings, like the wild west?
Depends. Do you like "Champion of Justice" as a translation of a term exclusively meaning "Superhero"?
>I'm pretty sure Ilya being Shirou's sister isn't relevant at all in UBW
In the VN, because you have two other routes that cover conclusions for other characters.
Ufotable isn't making Fate, so they are going to add in new scenes regarding other characters who don't get touched on for UBW.
The fuck did UTW do with the TL?
>inb4 "Early riser"
As far as i recall they said Bagels was a church executioner.
It might have been corrected then. At least this is what the HS version had.
I think there'd be a major shitstorm if UTW did something like that
Daiz save fansubs pls.
That said, no, shit ain't right. She calls him brother because HE IS HER BROTHER, it's vague at first but the way she refers to him hints at something later on.
>ally of justice
If that's the case, maybe it'd be better to translate it as just 'bro', since that can be ambiguous.
If the translator didn't know that, then I can see how they'd go with mister.
Translator should step it up and research the source material.
>If that's the case, maybe it'd be better to translate it as just 'bro', since that can be ambiguous.
That's probably the best way, or just leave the honorific in and assume the audience isn't as brain-dead as you are.
Anyone who knows the context knows she means it as an older brother. So the person who is translating this knows nothing about fate and is destroying nasu's hints
Subs for this show so far, ranked from best to worst:
What was bad about Commie?
Moreover, "onii-chan" is Ilya's pet term for Shirou. Even after she gets to know him really well she calls him onii-chan. It's one of the things that defines their relationship. Sort of like how Sakura calls him sempai, and Rin calls him Emiya-kun.
Hilariously, Commie will butcher every single one of these distinct modes of address.
That is the correct translation, m8.
That alone is enough, but add it to no onii-chan and failing to put in the German incantations and it just becomes too shitty to bother with.
This is..kinda correct
This is mindboggling.
It's kinda weird, it would be basically untouchable, but surely there would be a shitstorm complaining about the translation, wouldn't there?
Notice how everybody complains when you change shit unnecessarily, but if they just left it as onii-chan nobody would have complained. Just like nobody complained about Noble Phantasm being the translation for 宝具, or CR leaving senpai as senpai.
Wait, so in this route Ilya dies before telling Shirou that she's his sister?
People would say that "bro" isn't true to her character.
Or they'd complain and say they wanted onii-chan.
Trufact: If you leave in Japanese words that have a true English equivalent or replacement, then you are a bad translator.
Things like sashimi, sushi, or obon are fine being treated as calques with explanations, but anything like 'okaa-san' or 'onii-san' or 'itadakimasu' should be translated to an appropriate English word or phrase that conveys the same meaning.
Why would they think that? It's always been a fucking synonym for Wapanese.
Pretty sure it isn't; declaring reporting is against the rules.
>should be translated to an appropriate English word or phrase that conveys the same meaning.
So no English word then?
>but anything like 'okaa-san' or 'onii-san' or 'itadakimasu' should be translated to an appropriate English word or phrase that conveys the same meaning.
Commie devs get out. This shit is why you are a joke.
Especially since itadakimasu doesn't really have an English equivalent that makes sense, at best you can just clumsily insert a contextual equivalent that has no similar meaning.
Mister is perfect.
Emiya is perfect because there is no appropriate word for senpai in English.
>RUB-A-DUB THANKS FOR THE GRUB
what a masterwork of translation
I don't have the comparison chart. I didn't like how they changed some sentences it's more on the personal taste side, and yes that one was a offender.
Stop trying to push this shit Commie isn't that bad.
Even the lowest shills don't defend changing senpai when even CR left it in.
They took away Sakura's senpai, their subs are pure shit.
> 'itadakimasu' should be translated to an appropriate English word or phrase that conveys the same meaning.
In olden days, "itadakimasu" had a more spiritual meaning of "we now humbly take your lives from you to feed ourselves". Japanese people now say it as polite tradition rather than belief. It's the same thing as saying "bless you" when someone sneezes - you don't believe their soul is flying out, but you say it anyways because everyone says it.
This is why people usually go with "Let's eat" or "thanks for the food" when they have to translate "itadakimasu" - it's an appropriate cultural equivalent for a phrase you say before eating.
If you're going for a more niche audience who wants to learn more or knows about Japanese culture, then by all means leave it in with possibly a translator's note, but you're alienating another audience that will not be able to fully understand the meaning of the text.
For the "bless you" example, how would a Japanese translator translate that? Again, depends on his audience. People interested in learning more about English? He'd probably go for a more literal translation, or just ブレッスユー, with maybe a translator's note on screen.
For a broader audience, like people going to see a Disney film, it might be replaced completely with another cultural equivalent.
Does that make it a bad translation?
The question you should ask yourself when complaining about localization in subs is, what are you expecting from a translation?
The only bad thing they did was put hardsub karaoke on the end credits of the prologue episode. Episode one had no hardsubbing.
Everything else was fine.
I don't give a shit the bitch doesn't even have that many scenes in this adaptation. It's also a correct translation so whatever.
It doesn't need a translator's note. Would you put a translator's note on bon appetit? No, I thought not.
Literally takes 1min to change that sentence to "You're here early, Tohsaka"
Shill get out. The only group that does this is Commie, nobody else translates senpai this way, not even Crunchyroll. You are making your shilling obvious.
why did nobody summon Daiz yet?
Your opinions are invalid, Daiz is the truest translator I only trust him
I did that already doesn't change that I like Commie's encoding better.
Not him, but being able to fix a group's mistakes yourself doesn't make the mistake better. Mistakes are mistakes.
After all, I could spend a lot of time fixing Commie's mistakes and make their subs watchable, but that sure as shit doesn't excuse what they do to CR's script.
Most of us here on /a/ aren't new to anime or Japanese culture - we've been here a while, and we're here forever. We don't need shit like "itadakimasu" or "onii-chan" explained to us. We know the nuances behind them, whether we care or not, and we're focused on what's going on rather than having Japanese words put into our language.
Think also about how fansubs were before Crunchyroll and other companies started their simulcasts. Fansub groups ruled king, and a lot of them were staffed by translators who were also long in the tooth when it came to translating. They left out stuff like "big bro" and kept it as 'onii-chan". Sure, we may have had to go out a few times to figure out what shit meant, but we were consuming so much anime/Japanese material as it was that it wasn't really a problem.
Things like that don't fly for professional translators - like I stated earlier, you should avoid using calques if there's already an appropriate English substitute, whether it be a phrase, explanation, or a word.
The translators hired by Crunchy and other companies are also marketing and translating to a larger audience, the so-called newfags or casuals. They don't want to alienate that audience, so they try to keep it as professional as possible.
Disney does the same thing when translating over Ghibli movies, but you don't see anyone in the American public complaining that the 'itadakimasu' is missing - because the meaning is already translated in a natural way.
Stop being so high and mighty you cuntard pushing retarded fansub wars just a few days ago you were eating Commie's shit.
I loath Commie and avoid their subs on principle. Nice try, shill.
That's not even a straw man Anon, that's just braindead retarded.
>Things like that don't fly for professional translators
False. Professional translators do whatever the fuck they want, whatever they think looks good. I can give you examples of professional translations that use honorifics and those that don't, published in the same anthology even.
Bon appetit doesn't work as an example — it's already part of our culture. Sure, we're not saying it before any meal, but if you were to say "Bon appetit!" when presenting a meal to someone, they would know what it meant, as it appears in our movies, TV shows, and our basic vernacular. A child could tell you what it meant.
"Itadakimasu", on the other hand, is not as widespread in Western culture. Ask a random man off the street what it means and you'll get a blank stare. Now ask him about "Bon appetit".
If we had "itadakimasu" in our culture, and said it every now and then, we wouldn't need a translator's note for it. Unfortunately, it's not used in standard English, and so, it must be translated.
It's not such a big deal with scanlations and fansubs, since most of those are for a more knowledgeable audience (or an audience who does want to invest time in learning about the language and culture), but when it comes to professional translation, it matters.
Guys where do I get the VN? I'm gonna play this shit, I hope /a/ didn't overhype it.
>but if you were to say "Bon appetit!" when presenting a meal to someone, they would know what it meant
Many people have no glue what it actually means, they only know it's a french thing you say before eating/serving food.
And guess what? That's no different than how they'd see itadakimasu.
>oh it's that Japanese thing they say before eating
But apparently this is loathsome and heretical to you, because it's Japanese and not French.
Fuwanovel. Look it up, they have other stuff too.
Where do you get 99% of your anime shit?
search on nyaa then find a beastlair's patch
Not him, but
Bon appetit is used in everyday speech
CR is still better than the -tachi subs for Kamen Rider.
there are so many on nyaa which one do I get?
>Professional translators do whatever the fuck they want
Honorifics are a thing of debate in Japanese translation; there are places where it's appropriate to keep it in, and places where it isn't.
If you're translating a TV show or a video game, do you really need to add -san at the end of everything when your audience may not understand why all those -sans are there?
Take them out and reword your character's lines to establish the sense of respect/endearment/patronizing that the honorific would have projected. That's what a good translator knows how to do - but they also know when and where is the place for that.
In the end, I personally believe it's up to the commission and the audience to help determine what kind of honorifics you're going to use, if at all.
Actually, they do. Go out and ask people - "If I said 'bon appetit' before a meal, what do would you think I meant?"
They may not say "uh 'good appetite'" (why would they? we wouldn't say that in English!) but they will say something along the lines of "Eat up, this'll be good" or "Go ahead and eat this good food".
It also seems like you missed my point of "bon appetit" being a mainstream thing.
If you ask that same person about "itadakimasu", they'll probably say "some Chinese shit? Fuck, I don't know". It's just not ingrained in our Western culture just yet.
It is overhyped.
Seems that way but is the writing as good as F/Z?
It seems you will like F/SN just fine.
Both F/Z and F/SN have bad translations. But F/Z's translations is overall better than the translation for F/SN.
>UBW Fate adaption
>Not translated by UTW
rorico pls go
they subbed episode 0
They always use aniplex script, this time around they're doing the same
But it is? They're just way behind. They released episode 0 yesterday.
While we're on the subject of subs, while does ecchi still get translated as lewd?
I want a translation that replaces every honorific, onii-chan, and senpai with nigga.
ecchi is translated as what it refers to at the moment.
Sex, Lewd etc etc
so there's a v2 on horriblesubs, what changed?
But why lewd? There's other similar words that are actually used in everyday english
>Honorifics are a thing of debate in Japanese translation
No it's not. There are no "official standards" for translation, I have no clue where you are getting this bullshit from. Translators do whatever the fuck they want, whatever their editors think is a good idea, or whatever the original author agrees with. And in the professional scene a lot of times you don't get to talk with the original author for various reason (in literary circles it's because the author died years ago).
So it's purely in the translator and editor's hands how things get translated.
You sound like a hack who's never done a single scholarly translation in his life.
So tell me what you think of this.
What if onii-chan was translated as mister before the reveal, and big bro afterwards? That way the double meaning is conveyed to people who know what onii-chan means, and those that don't still get the gist of what she's saying for the most part.
the white man.
How about translation "Onii-chan" to "Big person"?
It fits in just fine
>>What if onii-chan was translated as mister before the reveal, and big bro afterwards?
Or what if it was just left as onii-chan because it doesn't need to be translated unnecessarily? The fact you have translate it two different ways shows how hard you have to work for no reason.
if u want H scenes and extra google beastlair patch
If you watch anime then you should prepare to be exposed to some Japanese culture. Literally the only reason you're balking at itadakimasu is "because people who don't watch anime won't know what it means," which is the worst case of pandering to outside the base I've ever seen.
This. Why people feel the need to translate words in a translation is beyond me.
The classic slippery slope argument without anything to back it up. Yeah how horrible that they left a Japanese term in. Deal with it or get a new hobby, faggot.
>Honorifics are a thing of debate
>there are no "official standards"
Which is why there's debate. Where is it appropriate to use it? Are you using it right or wrong? Should you try a different method?
Why do you think there are so many theories of translation? Equivalent effect sounds great, so why are there so many people writing papers against it?
In a way you're right - translators DO do whatever the fuck they want, but not in the 'fuck ya'll niggas I do what I want' kind of way - they've got to be able to defend their choices.
Of course a translation is going to be geared towards an audience, that's what it's supposed to be. Of course the commissioner and the editors have their grubby little hands all over your translation. Of course you can't always ask the author to clarify something, you have to go with your gut or your previous knowledge.
That's why translators argue with each other all the time over what's right and what's wrong. That's why we have journals of translation that critique other people's translations, what they thought was good and what they thought was bad.
Translation is not an exact art. There are no 'correct' translations - only translations that can be defended by their translator.
I've been translating professionally for years. Shit's not as easy as you think it is.
Read what I said earlier about translation companies and the trend of anime translation today. They certainly are playing to a pleb audience.
Some words simply don't cross over.
Japanese people use a shitton of passive tense to sound polite that just doesn't cross over into English, because we don't tell someone "Perhaps there are three reasons why this is coming to happen" to cushion the blow of a shitty financial report, we say "There are three reasons why this is happening."
How the fuck is that a slippery slope? What I'm saying is that leaving words untranslated is half assing it.
I get the feeling half the people in this thread have no idea what each other are talking about.
And a large portion of that don't even bother to read and instead just skim the posts.
Having Japanese honorifics in a translation for a non-Japanese setting / a cast with largely non-Japanese characters is pretty silly. Those are the kind of shows I wouldn't do a dual track release on, just a single honorific-less track.
There is no "debate" you fucking hack. Because there's no translation authority trying to establish standards, that's why there's no debate. There's only trends and aesthetics. Translation is at its core an aesthetic practice, translators are artists first. Something a lot of the fansub scene doesn't get.
What there is, is debates about specific works, specific translations. Take any historic translation of the Genji Monogatari, you can find a slew of scholarly articles debating its translation. And in them you might find a translator making a generalization about a particular trend in translating this or that term or phrase, but in the end it's just his opinion. The weight of his opinion might convince other translators to follow his example but that's it.
So basically, we are the debate, right here, right now. No different really than what the professional and scholarly translators do, except we're arguing about anime instead of old manuscripts. There is no appeal to authority here, there is no "accepted standards" you can throw in my face about how honorifics and familial modes of address should be translated, because it doesn't exist.
All you have is your own opinion and some examples.
>half assing it
Oh no, some guy who doesn't even speak Japanese thinks they're not doing a good enough translation. Go eat a dick. And yes, what you said is part of the classic shithead slippery slope argument about how leaving things untranslated leads to more things being untranslated (because all translators adhere to some imaginary standards about how much shit can be translated).
You know, I was gonna argue with you, but you make some good points.
Translation really is more like art than a precise translation of what's 'right' and 'wrong'. Obviously there are WRONG translations, but there aren't very many that everyone will say 'wow this is perfect', just like art in general.
When I said "debate" I meant more in the sense of over certain works. Everything in translation is on a case by case basis. There are things where generally one thing could be more acceptable than the other, but not in certain cases, and vice versa.
It's really all about defending the work you've done on the text you've translated for a certain client for a certain audience.
And even then, someone will still show up and call you a faggot.
See this is the right attitude. I generally agree with that. Like take FMA. I prefer FMA without honorifics, I'm even cool with the dub, because of how westernized the setting is.
>leaving things untranslated leads to more things being untranslated
Good job refuting points that I never made. You really tore me to shreds.
>not streaming 1080p Naruto from Crunchy Roll hours after it airs in area 11...
>not living in Japan and watching the show as it airs live
What the fuck are they going to do later on.
Like will she start calling him big bro or will she just call him Shirou?
Or are they gonna have her call him "mister" the whole fucking show.
You know, for your own sake I hope you're enjoying making those posts, because as this thread makes apparent, they're going to go to waste to 99% of the people who have never read the first thing about what translation actually is but act like they know all about it anyway because they know what honorifics and "baka" means. That's how you end up seeing shit like "wow you'd translate the same word differently in two different places?! Obviously you should leave it untranslated then, because not doing 1:1 word mapping between two languages just sounds wrong and I have no idea what context is!"
But for what it's worth, it's nice to see someone who does actually know what they're talking about when it comes to translation for once.
>Obviously there are WRONG translations
And let's not forget non-translations, which is ultimately what "onii-chan" will always be in an English script.
Non-translations are acceptable in some cases
>There are no 'correct' translations - only translations that can be defended by their translator.
>Words have no "correct" meaning, only meanings that can be defended by their speaker.
Pretty reasonable apart from that though.
how can one fanbase be this bad
every single thread is you make is extremely terrible
tl;dr I can't write at 3AM
They don't translate the same word the same way every single time.
If you translate やばい as dangerous, you're not going to translate it dangerous every time depending on the situation. Like if some barely dodges an attack. You could translate やばい as 'that was close'. Or if someone did a really cool move, and someone was in awe you could translate やばい as 'cool'. Cause in that context that conveys what the person means.
but what do I know I translate porn.
Out of curiosity, how would you translate Onee-sama when the character in question is not related to the person speaking?
I'd omit it or use the name.
any names of the works you have helped translate?
It's almost as if no one here has ever seen FBI subs.
They later on did a version 2
It's like how the word 'crazy' has more than one meaning.
"That's crazy!" could mean more than one thing:
- a person is mentally ill
- an action or thing is strange or not societally acceptable
- an action or thing is amazing and cool
- an action or thing is unbelievable
All four of those could be translated differently in another language.
やばい has a slew of meanings, not just one.
Crazy has a slew of meanings, not just one.
You don't translate on a word to word basis. If that were the case, Google Translate would do all our chinese cartoons.
Yeah, just look how many people chose not to download UTWs subs after they were 2 weeks late.
Wait a minute.
if you have to look at the subtitles when she says oni-chan it's your own damn fault
It's so obviously wrong that it simply triggers everyone's autism.
They also translated red as white.
CR made a ton of changes to version two. Yes they got the name of the city wrong in the first sub.
Except it isn't.
People think that they know what Onii-chan means because they watch their shitty Chinese incest cartoons and they do not.
Okay sure you can't translate the same thing the same way every time.
But Ilya is saying it the same way and meaning it the same way every time isn't she?
I understand not writing baka with a translator note underneath but when something truly can't be translated without being awkward or wrong maybe you should just leave it as is.
>But Ilya is saying it the same way and meaning it the same way every time isn't she?
The thing about this scene is that it obviously is from Shirou's perspective.
He wouldn't think that Illya is calling him "brother" and translating it as "bro" would be out of character for Illya here.
In this case, the context of the 'onii-san' is extremely important.
Are you defending Onii-chan being translated as mister? Because that definitely isn't what Illya said, Illya is implying brother. It doesn't matter what Shirou thinks, he was told "brother" not "mister"
This one seems like it was on purpose because the sub still retains most of the meaning. Still shitty of them to take that liberty though
You don't know what "onii-chan" is then.
Onii-chan or nii-san can be used to refer to an young male (either older than the child saying it, or in a condescending way from an older adult).
It's perfectly valid to call someone an 'onii-san' if you're a little girl talking to a young adult male on the street. It's polite.
However here you've got a double meaning. That's why it's so difficult to translate.
>/a/ in charge of knowing Japanese
That's what I mean though.
He wouldn't think that Ilya is calling him brother but she is. Which is why Mister isn't a very good translation here, he just doesn't work the same way onii-chan does for this scene.
Nothing in English does except for bro as you mentioned which would be completely out of place.
A slightly more formal version of "big bro" (which i'm not aware of due to limited english skills) would be appropriate, no?
But she didn't imply it to be polite, it was meant to be literally brother.
>He wouldn't think that Ilya is calling him brother but she is
Thing is, it's effectively untranslatable.
"Mister" is the best option, since it doesn't break character.
Shirou doesn't know that and we are watching this damn thing from his perspective.
There is none.
Think about what the Japanese people would have thought, though. Think about what the guy hearing that line thought.
>it was meant to be literally brother
I don't think you understand how 'onii-chan' works, nii-san.
English as I know it has nothing like that though.
People realize Shirou is the younger brother and not actually Illya's "onii-chan", right? Her using it is played off as ironic in HF, but never as being literal or being foreshadowing.
Do non blood related siblings even use onii-chan?
Mister is fine.
All this autism over one word.
>people arguing about this
Really? The "white" instead of red thing is a flat mistranslation, so there's no defending that, but this thing with Illya and Shirou is intentional. Remember, the story perspective comes from Shirou, who is the narrative focus for the audience. He has no idea what Illya means there except what he would assume.
I get that it doesn't fit the double meaning she's using, but for story narrative purposes, it fits. The question isn't what they use now, but what they'll do later when the secret is revealed to the audience.
at least in anime it happens all the time.
Should've just left it untranslated for people to get the double meaning.
Leaving things untranslated is a bad thing, unless there's a very, very good reason for it.
In this case, there's isn't any.
>In this case, there's isn't any.
Except for the double meaning, she means one thing, he hears another.
Read the thread, idiot.
>Emiya instead of senpai
Eh. How would you translate senpai?
There's no double meaning.
>this japanese word has two meanings
>just leave it untranslated, real weaboos will know what the double meaning is
>at least I would
Better than translating it as something stupid.
Okay you know what I'm not even going to argue about onii-chan and mister because I don't speak moon.
Mister sounds like shit. It sounds jarring and retarded every time I hear it just like big bro.
Who the fuck has ever been called big bro by their sister? Who the fuck has ever been called mister by a random girl on the side of the road?
Also Archer is the white guy.
This is why you don't translate it as something stupid.
Just because one person made a mistake doesn't mean nothing should be done ever.
Who the fuck has ever been called "onii-chan" in English?
Onii-chan, the voiced language is Japanese, not English.
>Foreign, elegant little girl
You're not good at this 'tone' thing, are you?
We're not talking about the voiced language, are we? That remains the same no matter what you do. We're talking about the subtitles, which are in English.
Maybe 'mister' sounds jarring to you, but that's your problem. In the civilized world, it's a pretty common word.
Another anon confirmed for not knowing the cultural meaning behind 'onii-san'.
Read >>115332819 and get back to us.
It's the same thing as black people calling each other 'niggas'. Someone outside the US might be like 'why the fuck would you call someone a racial slur if they're in your group?!' But they do, because it's a cultural thing.
Wow it's fucking nothing, stop using subs already if it bothers you.
Nobody uses the word mister, this isn't the 70s.
Was her saying onii-chan in the VN supposed to foreshadow things?
That is like the only thing that matters in this discussion.
>Another anon confirmed for not knowing the cultural meaning behind 'onii-san'.
Yeah I said that
In the first line
>Was her saying onii-chan in the VN supposed to foreshadow things?
But it clearly does, are you stupid?
Then the translation as 'mister' is appropriate.
No fuck you, the only time I've ever heard mister is when it's preceding a name.
No young girl just calls people mister anymore.
If that's the case, then we might want to detach ourself from the lexicogrammar even more.
Since the onii-san exists just to show the speaker/audience who the girl is talking to, and to show that he's older than her and she's trying to be cute/show respect:
>Excuse me, but if you don't summon yours soon, you're gonna die.
Or just leave it out altogether.
I can only assume the people throwing around "double meaning" and "foreshadowing" are Zero anime secondaries who don't get that Illya is older.
", my dear" fits better.
It's as inappropriate as a stranger creepy loli talking about servants and shit and it keeps at least some of the double-meaning.
Either something like that or don't put anything there, "mister" is rarely used alone.
Isn't the point of translations to get the connotation across?
So, if you've reached the step of arguing semantics like this, aren't you pretty well-versed in what Ilya was saying in the above scene?
So, didn't the translations successfully do their job of conveying the context to you?
Which is also why it's ironic.
Then just leave it as it is. Onii-chan. End.
If you don't know what to do there's no point in half-assing shit.
I think "Brah", "Bro", or "Broseph" wouldn't have worked.
"If you don't summon yours soon, you're gonna die, bro."
But he's right. It WAS supposed to be an indicator.
but she still called him onii-chan later on
So they replaced a jarring word with another jarring word.
Not exactly, it's suppose to foreshadow their relationship while coming across as a cutesy generic loli phrase.
The problem is it's awkward as fuck to translate, but if you change the word or leave it out you're missing the intent behind the line.
>Sakura calling shirou "Emiya" instead of her trademark senpai
The only problem I have with "mister" is that as previously mentioned there are scenes in HF where Illya using onii-chan is called back to ironically. If ufotable includes those in the movie Aniplex will have to figure out a better way to handle this.
She sounds like a fucking pokemon
Because "onii-chan" doesn't just mean "brother".
It's a common word but it's not a common modern usage and never actually had the same meaning besides that.
The only thing they have in common is being a male honourific that allows exclusion of a proper name.
>a translation is good if people have previously seen a less shit translation of the same line
I honestly found it annoying that she never called him by his name.
Even in the relationship
You messed up the punchline.
She lets him treat her as a younger sister all the fucking time save for a couple scenes in HF.
Here's the correct one.
The fact is is that things get lost in translation at all levels, but annoying weeaboos are only able to discern what's missing at the lowest levels.
Just learn Japanese already so the rest of us can stop hearing your shitty complaints.
>", my dear" fits better.
And this is why fans should not attempt to localize translations. They think they know more than they do and it leads to cringeworthy shit like this fucker right here.
>Siblings using onii-chan for anything other than "brother"
After their relation is revealed she rarely uses onii-chan. It's almost always "Shirou" from that point.
>Fuck if I'm gonna download like six shows every week even if I don't like them that much.
>people like this one are allowed to post on /a/
That's not a mistake. Japanese can use "onii-chan" to refer to strangers and that's how Shirou understood Ilya. He wasn't perplexed by "onii-chan" part but rest of what she said.
Doki never fails to amuse me.
Nope. Disregard the kanji, you simply can't transcribe 白 as "shirou". "Shirou" has one syllable more.
No, they aren't. They're at similar level to better fansub groups.
Casuals cry about honorifcs the most though. Shut up Mazui nerd.
Rinne no Lagrange where?
>I didn't mind HS blatantly copypasting CR
>Do they think people will suddenly stop valuing decent sub groups just because HS can get it out the door faster?
How about you read what the groups say?
There is no better way to handle this though. "Brother" would be much worse. The only thing which could work would be just "shirou" but autists whose knowledge of Japanese ends at neko = cat would throw up an even bigger tantrum.
It doesn't mean what "onii-chan" means there.
It makes her sound condescending and/or romantic.
This is why people who know Japanese and Japanese culture should translate.
Using "Shirou" would be better because it implies Illya knows who Shirou is.
Just leave it onii-chan. How fucking hard is that? If there's no real way to translate the term without butchering its meaning just leave it as it is.
Are you still talking about the OP? Because that was a troll image. "Mister" is the correct translation for "oniichan" or "oniisan" in this instance. The term is used for more than just siblings.
Oh, look, more people who have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.
Nii-san, Nii-chan, onii-san, what have you is often used to refer to an older (but not old enough to be oji-san level) dude to a younger person. Mister is the most appropriate thing to use in this situation.
Y'all niggas thinking direct translation is good translation know dick about language.
>what's an app
Just make an App in python, Lisp o whatever you want to replace them.
And then the dubs come and the same VA who did Nanako from Persona 4 is a shoe-in for Illya because of "Big Bro"
Mister sucks ass, it's nowhere near as close as the correct translation. It butchers the foreshadowing and makes all future innuendo meaningless.
>There is no better way to handle this though.
How about just leave it as onii-chan?
How about we just leave Senpai as is too? And all that other honorific shit that gets translated so the people watching JAPANESE CARTOONS don't get confused when the languages don't match up exactly.
But he actually is Illya's onii-chan.
Are you joking?
Of course every single word must always be translated even if the translation carries only a small part of the original meaning and ends up serving no other purpose other than "i translate thing" while making the whole line sound odd in the wrong way.
ITT: actual translators getting mad at trolls and trolls provoking translators.
I love /a/.
Except it wouldn't, because she doesn't use him name and is remaining mysterious at this point. If you use his name you are directly altering the script and tone.
It's only foreshadowing in hindsight.
There's nothing unusual about a young girl affectionately calling a teenaged boy/young man "onii-chan" or "onii-san."
Shirou, and the reader, has no real reason to believe they're (adoptive) siblings until they are directly told, despite Ilya consistently referring to Shirou as such.
She knows who he is, she is not remaining mysterious because she uses "You better summon soon" That is in no way remaining mysterious.
Nah, I think the only people who are really getting upset are people who simply know enough Japanese to understand that the translation is correct. The actual translators don't have a stake in this conversation, since they are confident that they know hot to handle this.
That wouldn't be a tanslation. You would have to put a translation note there ("onii-chan" means big brother but is also used for older male strangers) which would completely destroy the nuance and foreshadowing. Mister works well enough, Shirou would probably be the best.
List of people in this thread who need to fuck off back to reddit where they rate each other's posts like insecure high school girls:
that is all.
Oniisan, not oniichan is more common for strangers
Yeah, no. These are FAN translators. They don't have a degree in the language and have never actually studied translation or been paid to do it professionally. SOME of them take commissions sometimes because some people are stupid enough to pay for that amateur shit.
He isn't. Illya is the onee-chan.
Not really, stop trying to appeal to a fictional majority. Lots of people are genuinely sad that the whole secret sister thing gets completely obliterated by this "translation".
But this is anime, so anything is possible.
>There's nothing unusual about a young girl affectionately calling a teenaged boy/young man "onii-chan" or "onii-san."
Which is why "mister" is wrong.
A young girl calling a teen "mister" just feels odd nowadays.
Please learn at least the very basics before talking about languages.
Daily reminder that Crunchyroll won't be going away soon!
Except that the casuals are complaining about "mister".
Is there a single non-autistic person that actually cares?
Not necessarily siblings but someone might use it toward an older cousin or something.
Shirou is eighteen, I don't see a problem.
>A young girl calling a teen "mister" just feels odd nowadays.
Just because the language sounds straight out of Leave It to Beaver doesn't change the fact that we have no modern equivalent of this slightly stale term.
>the term that originated on /a/ as a pejorative to insult cringe-inducing losers is being used for that express purpose!
>if you can't catch up the meaning of the japanese dialogue by hearing it and using the subtitles just as a clue you should consider killing yourself
>That wouldn't be a translation.
You're right, it would be keeping the original thing said in Japanese the same so that it both carries the correct meaning and doesn't fuck things up later on if she switches what she uses in a specific and important way.
>Mister works well enough
No it sounds stupid as fuck just like big bro.
>Shirou would probably be the best.
Except it's not what she said.
As long as their streams and subs are easily stealable, I couldn't give half a fuck.
That's what he said.
>That wouldn't be a tanslation.
And this is why shit like this happens, people don't understand that their first obligation should go towards the product they're working on, not the "translation" in itself.
Just because you're translating something doesn't mean that you should do "everything at all costs", especially when particularly harmful like OP's case.
Have you considered that "Onii-chan" sounds stupid as fuck too?
Thanks for the ad hominem, it sure showed me.
Shit on CR all you want, but you see all those shows that get special ed Blue Ray in the US? It's because of CR. You know all that anime merch? Yup CR did it. If it wasn't for CR and all it's paying users who are helping support anime, then anime would be dead in the west, I mean only $8 a month for a huge catalog of new and old anime that is all 1080p and professionally subbed? Allso add in specia discounts to the CR store and special live action shows! What more do you want!
>Except it's not what she said.
You don't understand what translating means. Please educate yourself.
You can't just leave Japanese words in English script. And don't mention katana.
>i know better than the translators because i know what baka, onii-chan, itadakimasu, and senpai mean
>Untranslated honorifics sound dumb
Now I've seen it all. I bet you prefer Mr. Smith instead of Smith-sensei.
You're right in saying nothing would've been a betrer translation.
Which is why they should've translated it with nothing.
Consider for a moment that pic related is the kind of person you're talking to. She probably uses words like kawaii and oniichan in her everyday life.
It's not so unusual that it would make him think "this mysterious ornately dressed albino foreigner is clearly my actual little sister"
He would just assume she's trying to be cute/affectionate
Actually he's just be more worried about "Why is this little girl I've never seen before telling me I'm going to die? What does she mean by summoning?"
It's not that unusual for a polite or highbrow girl as one would expect the heir to a wealthy educated family such as the Einzberns to be
Either way, it's how Shirou would understand it
Shirou doesn't know Ilya at this point. Ilya indirectly hates Shirou because he's Kiritsugu's adopted son. This is the first time they're talking and she tells him go check yourself or you're dead, onii-chan. How is that not mysterious? If you want to argue for just using onii-chan because the setting is Japan, that's another discussion entirely, but for subbing that opts to remove direct honorifics, Mister is the only appropriate thing to use at this point in the story. If anything, it adds to the creepiness of the line.
Katana is fine, because it's an English word.
>I mean only $8 a month for a huge catalog of new and old anime
>implying it works outside of US
>that is all 1080p
Not everything is 1080p
>implying it's real 1080p
This bait is weak.
I import. I dont need crunchy roll at all.
>oniichan is used for strangers
No, she didnn't use oniisan. It's not like saying ojisan to an older guy. It's a chan, as in family, duh. /a doesnt even get honorifics anymore...
>You can't just leave Japanese words in English script.
Once again, here's why shit like this happens. This exact mentality.
Why is sword not an appropriate translation for katana again?
I've been saying for a while now, the best script would be nothing but romanized Japanese.
>You don't understand what translating means. Please educate yourself.
Actually it's you who doesn't understand. Translating is not the same as changing the script. Retard.
It really doesn't.
Can't we just make everything Katakana instead?
Why do you need subs? Just listen to your glorious Japanese which can't be tainted with translation.
Poe's Law is strong with that post, but I think they're just pretending to sound like a CR drone. "And how about those special discounts, eh anon? nudge nudge."
And here's another genius who can't think outside of black/white all/nothing.
Ever watched Psycho Pass with official subs on Netflix? They turn that script on its fucking head and add so much dialogue. In a way that I felt added to the script at times.
But that also has to do with matching mouth flaps to English, so rewriting scripts is common practice. That's getting into more of a question of translation vs. localization I suppose.
And then faggots like this who strawman are the other reason this shit happens. It's why no one will ever use a fucking simple TL note anymore too, because as soon as you do, you get compared to checkmate, obakasantachi, bugzapper and more.
I fucking hate you so much it hurts.
A Japanese word you don't fully understand will always sound better than an English word you know is dumb as fuck.
Didn't we just get done with an argument about how there are no such things as standards or shoulds/shouldn'ts in translation? Now we're right back to referring to these imaginary "translation standards".
The reason that you can't leave it in is because you're operating under the assumption that every single person watching your subs knows what that means, which is not true, and if someone cannot understand your translation then you have failed at your job
Because that's not a sword, dagger, broadsword or anything inbetween. It's an object called Katana. It's its name, use it.
It kind of reminds me of Full Metal Panic where Teresa Testarossa became Teletha Testarossa because hey, can't have foreigner feeling names.
Not that it matters shit that they're supposed to be both italians and that Leonardo and Teresa are both normal italian names, whereas Teletha doesn't exist.
Deal with it. TL notes and shit will fade into irrelevancy and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. We're in the driver seat, not you.
Because rectangle isn't an appropriate translation for square.
Yup. It isn't about changing the script from one language to another. It's about conveying the meaning. "Shirou" conveys the meaning of mysterious familiarity well. Please, educate yourself before replying to me again.
Yeah, that's why I used 'bait'. Actual CR is too scared of /a/ to shill here. Or to be exact finds our userbase to be too unpleasant on various levels.
If you want Japanese in your subs, you're welcome to support dead groups like Mazui. However people with working brains want actual translations.
The day you die will be the single happiest day of my life.
Why would they need to shill? They're a hundred million dollar company, not some startup like Fakku.
The same reason ken isn't an appropriate translation for claymore.
If these buffoons don't know how to google oniichan, how did they find the fansub in the first place? I learned honorifics from the first manga I read when I was TWELVE, with dialup internet,
>Because that's not a sword
>Historically katana (刀?) were one of the traditionally made Japanese swords
People always want to have more money. but they prefer to use reddit AMA for PR. Too bad it can backfire.
>"Shirou" conveys the meaning of mysterious familiarity well. Please, educate yourself before replying to me again.
Shirou changes the meaning. There could be any number of reasons that the script has onii-chan instead of Shirou and it's not your job to second guess it.
This. Also translation notes are awful.
I work with a company that asks I leave honorifics as they are, and use TL notes wherever appropriate to explain certain cultural things rather than just translate into English and I kinda hate it, it always feels dirty using a TL note for some reason.
>TL note: onii-chan means brother
I can hear a little girl feeling herself mysteriously comfortable with an older man saying "Mr. X".
Big brother would sound stupid in english if he's not her actual big brother
A kukri, shiv or butterfly knife are all daggers but you don't call them daggers, you call them by their fucking name. Same for Katana, "sword" is not the correct translation as much as "gun" isn't for a .44 Magnum.
Do you actually talk to people?
>tfw you have a degree in the language and are getting an advanced degree in translation theory
Why can't translations require previous knowledge from the reader? Should they also avoid obscure or less used English words even if they're more accurate? Should they dumb down grammar to make sure that nobody gets confused?
I love pausing the show and going into google to look up words that the translator likes. I feel that really adds to the experience
Why do translations have to exist at all? Why not just have everyone learn Japanese as part of your country's core education?
Well, now I understand why people laughs at you.
Because tahts the entire point of a translation.
Either you are hardcore and learn japanese for real, and not just what "its so big, onii-chan" means.
Or you shut your whore mouth and translate the whole thing.
It's a specific subtype that doesn't exist in other culture and therefore other languages.
There's actual generic words for sword in Japanese you dipshit
>Because tahts the entire point of a translation.
Says who? Who decided these "rules"?
No you don't. You're lying on the internet. On an anonymous imageboard.
Where do you set the border for amount of Japanese needed to use the subs?
Can you see the problem now?
I can hear you sucking a thousand dicks.
>My loli imouto not saying Onii-chan
I don't like it.
Its the literal meaning of the word.
Look it up.
>If you want Japanese in your subs
What I want is a translation that doesn't butcher the original product for the sake of "translating all".
Someone said something about "not boxing yourself", and this is exactly it. A good translator should put the quality of the end product before all, not the translation.
>I'm bullied by Hadena but D_S' Fs make me wet
Isn't this why we have different subgroups in the first place?
No, I don't think it's unreasonable to let readers research things from time to time. Sometimes translating romance novel manga bullshit the exotic dude will say something in his native tongue and I just leave it as is without a note or explaining. Though I do get kind of conflicted about this at times. Maybe I should opt to have like a little subtitle translation under or above it the first time.
At a fucking reasonable level where you leave honorifics alone and don't fucking make up bullshit words when you can't think of an aproproate translation. Not the fucking bullshit strawman counter argument that everyone makes where you just transliterate everything as romaji. It's not a problem at all. You're just a bunch of fucking faggots who feel like you can stroke your ego better if you "come up with a good translation" for something that a good translation never existed for in the first place.
Holy fuck this guy is pure cancer
Not a single post that isn't stupid as fuck
Onii-chan butchers the translation much more than "mister" or "Shirou" for anyone who doesn't know full meaning of "onii-chan".
Relax. You're not making yourself sound very intelligent here.
I bet if you knew Japanese and you translated UBW, you wouldn't get an A+ on Nyaa.
>only people who know exactly as much as i do are allowed to watch subbed anime!
Holy shit your biting wit and sarcasm has shown me the way.
Every single time someone uses an honorific I'm just going to leave it out or translate it as something really stupid.
Because Japanese and English are the exact same language and there's no way important concepts exist in one culture and not the other.
You know what fuck it, I'm going to change rice balls to donuts.
>Because tahts the entire point of a translation.
No it's not. The point of a translation is make unaccessible works of fiction accessible to people. Nowhere does it say that "you must translate, everything, at all costs, no matter what".
>There's actual generic words for sword in Japanese
And one of those is "katana". I have seen it used many times to refer to swords that we would not consider a "katana" in English because "katana" in Japanese is a generic term whereas "katana" in English refers to a specific type of sword that is more accurately called a nihontou in Japanese. Please stop perpetuating this myth.
First is a google image search for katana in jp, second is nihontou. Notice the difference.
Perhaps after 400 posts, you've finally come to realize that translation is an art, not a science?
>why the fuck is this loli bitch calling me Onii-chan
>why the fuck is this loli bitch calling Shirou Onii-chan
Man, those guys really can't reason outside of 0-1 binary lines.
剣 is overwhelmingly more common as a generic term for sword than 刀, guy.
No they use 剣 generically for sword. Katana is a specific kind. They even use soodo for sword sometimes. Dont talk about japanese stuff without studying japanese for at least three years.
But Shirou is supposed to be most concerned about "die" and "summon" parts, not some strange names.
Still, good one.
How about you take a break from shitposting and check out absolutely any article about translating?
Why is onii-chan some sacred national treasure but otou-san is perfectly fine?
Dude I've completely seen the light.
I mean who knows what the fuck a rice ball is? It's not like you could just figure it out through context look it up or decide it's not that important because it doesn't change your overall understanding of the story.
Actually I'm going to be translating a story about a famous Japanese sword soon, I think I'll change it to Excalibur so people will understand it better.
>and don't fucking make up bullshit words when you can't think of an aproproate translation.
The only worse thing than a bad translation is a bad translation because translators couldn't low down their fucking ego and accept that not everything is meant to be changed.
It's the difference between caring about the thing they're working on or just caring about the work itself.
because pedoshits have conditioned themselves to ejaculate whenever a female character utters the word.
I think there's a good chance Aniplex will use onii-chan next time it comes up. The first version of the script was completely scrubbed of honorifics and I wouldn't be surprised if leaving it as mister in the re-edit was an oversight.
Trust in UTW. They will save us.
Because scanlations done by 19yo chinks didn't translate "onii-chan" and people can;t adapt.
Knowing what onii-chan means is fucking entry level son. Like, lowest possible level.
Stop exaggerating shit to make yourself sound righteous.
>How about you take a break from shitposting and check out absolutely any article about translating?
How about you try making up your own thoughts instead?
It's possible to watch 100 anime and read 100 manga and never hear or read "onii-chan", especially if you have Western tastes.
Onii-chan is a fetishised cliché like Senpai.
I'm sure those two or three people who never heard "onii-chan" will do just fine.
>Knowing what onii-chan means is fucking entry level son. Like, lowest possible level.
Then why is that the highest level word that most of the people complaining about this translation know?
Yeah and leaving shit like Onii-chan untranslated is something that damages the end product.
Worst part is that they pretend it makes them "more professional" for doing it, like they're adhering to some kind of standard of quality, when really they're just following a style guide they themselves wrote. It's the worst kind of self-fellating bullshit.
Praise it son.
because they fap to loli incest manga and now they feel like they were betrayed of their fetish code word.
>if your google search uses a less common sequence of kanji you get more specific results
Go fucking figure
How many of those first results you're talking about not being a katana do you think are actually read かたな? and how many of them are fucking Chinese?
It's not literally any sword, but it's not the "specific kind" that English speakers think of when you say katana. Katana in Japanese refers to any single-edged sword and should be translated as "sword" in English unless it's obvious that the sword is the specific type we consider "katana".
That made me laugh pretty hard, thanks
Uhh... you just proved my point.
Everyone knows what onii-chan means, which is why they're so angry it got cut out for no reason and causing damage to the overall experience.
Because its glaringly obvious. There are worse problems in the script, compare to utw. They even got the name of the city from the show wrong....called it new city lol. Not fu- whatever.
Anon, if you encountered directly translated material it would be so goddamn awkward to read, especially in anime.
Why don't you get autistic fits when someone translates ji-san? It's the exact same thing.
Hatsuyuki already did a satisfactory job for episode 1, honestly.
One thing UTW does that I like is that they keep Rin's spells in German and put little English supersubs above them.
>You know what fuck it, I'm going to change rice balls to donuts.
I wonder how many people actually caught, as they were watching the episode, that 赤 doesn't mean white.
But that's what standards are. Consider the following: all fansub translators all have some sort of respect toward these standards. You're someone who barely knows Japanese and probably have never translated before. Why would anyone take your opinion seriously?
Maybe she already knew.
Google uses a semantics search not a stict keyword search now, and throws in other swords, duh.
>They even got the name of the city from the show wrong....called it new city lol. Not fu- whatever.
New City is a literal translation of 新都.
"New Fuyuki" is the interpretative translation here.
At least don't call niggers white. Come on CR, that's just insulting
>It's the worst kind of self-fellating bullshit.
The funny thing is, leaving untranslated words while translating is something translators used to do less than a century ago.
>all fansub translators all have some sort of respect toward these standards
No they don't. Commie has their own policies for translating that pretty much nobody else uses. It's something specific to commie, not the people who work for them, since they also work for many other groups and don't follow Commie's retarded policies while subbing under those groups.
>You're someone who barely knows Japanese and probably have never translated before.
Wrong on both counts :^)
Archer is White, Shinji is Blue, Shirou is Red, Kotomine is Black. They're using our lingo.
People realize this was fixed fairly quickly for the streams themselves, right?
Commie doesn't translate...
It really doesn't. In fact it makes it richer, as the anon will later realize that she was using the term in a sisterly way while "mister" doesn't mean shit.
In situations like these you've gotta choose the lesser evil, and "mister" is definitely a major one.
They sometimes do.
If someone on here asked what Onii-chan meant you would tell them to fuck off or lurk more and the same thing should apply here.
Go shitpost elsewhere Jaka
>translation is an art
I know you're baiting but thanks for the laugh, i really needed it.
You're an okay guy i guess.
I thought this joke was done?
>as the anon will later realize that she was using the term in a sisterly way
She wasn't though.
Don't you mean "pay the midterm-man"?
I like how every single reply of this guy has either been an appeal to majority or ad hominem.
Are all "professional translators" so full of nothing?
Oh man dude you're so fucking right. Because every time I encountered an english word I didn't understand in an english conversation I floundered about like a mackerel.
I didn't figure it out through context or ask what it meant or anything like that, who the fuck would do that?
You can use "Shirou" then.
I thought /a/ always rages when memes are used in subs. Are you really sure you want subs to be exact same thing as our lingo?
Seriously though, thanks for the 'WE ARE A SUB GROUP' ruses lately. It's been top kek.
>tfw i pay for crunchyroll and dont have to spend all that time torrenting shit
HS leader does nothing but troll when he posts on /a/.
Lurk moar if you think he's a translator.
It's not a joke. Most of Commie's releases are barely edited CR subs. Notice how Commie's UBW 01 still had the missing line from Saber? Nobody even watched that shit before they released it.
How new are you? Jaka has been shitposting and trolling nonstop for the last couple days.
Commie does translate some shows though. And you can always tell a Commie Original™ translation by all the forced slang and memes they cram in.
No, but I don't want FANsubs to cater to casuals and newfags either.
Nice funnyjunk gif. Maybe you'd like to head on back there?
There's translating and there's going through a script and removing the honorifics. The latter is what Commie does for the majority of the time and it isn't really translating.
The problem with using "Shirou" in place of "onii-chan" is that Illya actually switches to calling him "Shirou" once they start interacting in a more familial way.
I would if "Jii-san" had some pretty deep and important foreshadowing and meaning later on.
Lots of translators have these in reverse. They don't care about the thing they're working on, they don't care that changing "onii-chan" into "mister" and "senpai" into "Emiya" deprives the unknowing viewer of a lot small things.
All they care about is "translating everything" because "leaving non-translated terms is bad" and "this is a translation after all".
Cnfirmed for either not watching a single thing translated by Commie or desperately trying to fit in or brain damage resulting in memory loss.
your mom is fat piece of funnyjunk
>argumentum ad logicam
>Most of commie's releases are barely edited CR
Yeah, that's why they're so known for the crappy liberal subs
>called horrible subs
>people act shocked and angry when the subs are actually horrible
>You can use "Shirou" then.
It takes away all of the respect that Sakura feels for him.
You're the first person to make a complaint with any merit about translating onii-chan! Congratulations! After mere 500 posts!
Unfortunately CR cares mostly about casuals.
Congratulations, you just described what a translation is.
Lots of details are generally lost in translation since not all languages are equal.
I'm legitimately glad you're here, for the sake of this board
I'm actually watching 4 shows subbed by Commie this season because the alternatives are worse.
So yeah, tell me about how Commie doesn't change scripts to force American slang into them.
You guys are a riot. If you don't want information to be conveyed through your own cultural lens then why are you bothering with subs that might make sense to a viewer who may not be culturally aware of the shit he's watching? Just fucking learn Japanese already and let subbers actually translate.
see I told you that you could summon servants without a summoning circle
>Unfortunately CR cares mostly about casuals.
Funnily enough, CR actually caters to the honorifics/onii-chan crowd much more than most of the popular fansub groups.
See what I meant?
A blind judge enforcing laws without having a clue about their purpose.
I thought you were talking about shows they translate. They don't translate Cross Ange. It's a Sunrise show only good for Nana singing, lesbian rape and flashy action, so they're having fun with subs. There were no memes in Symphogear.
Do you how they drew a penis on the OP too? To be honest, knowing Commie, they're just trying to fish for attention.
Their decision making process for subbing is essentially: "What can I put in my subtitles so that people will talk about it more?"
Considering that 95% of subs are pretty much equal in their ability to get the context across, is it not sensible to go with Commie for the typefacing and karaoke?
>Lots of details are generally lost in translation since not all languages are equal.
It should be your job to try and minimize this problem, not endorse it.
Depends on translator working on the show.
I would have used HS except the audio was completely fucked, it was totally unwatchable.
>they're just trying to fish for attention.
You just did that on purpose didnt you
I wouldn't complain if Commie did just that, but they tend to shit over the final product with stuff they consider funny.
>It should be your job
He does it for free, anon.
They all do. They owe you nothing.
That's because their fanbase is mostly casuals and it makes sense from a business perspective, but what I don't understand is why /a/ is actively defending them for doing so.
>CR does it for free
Now I've seen it all.
Your argument essentially boils down to "let's leave as many thing as possible untranslated to minimize the details lost in translation." I see your point, but it's a slippery slope. How do you define the boundaries?
Because their decision makes sense.
>but what I don't understand is why /a/ is actively defending them for doing so.
Because reading an amalgamation of some other language and Japanese is awkward?
CR varies depending on who is translating it. And really the only subgroup that hates honorifics is Commie, and to a lesser extent Underwater.
FFF, Vivid, Anime-koi, Chyuu, Asenshi, UTW etc don't really have anything against honorifics. They don't use them all the time, but they often leave them in.
I'm so offended!
Thanks for the trigger warning, you idiot!
>Your argument essentially boils down to "let's leave as many thing as possible untranslated to minimize the details lost in translation."
It essentially does not.
It essentially means that you shouldn't translate all special terms just for the sake of translation, but trying to see when doing so actually damages the end product, like in this case.
Blindingly changing everything is the easy choice.
I'm used to it. Maybe I just don't have standards for something people do for free.
It's pointless. They have to follow the style guide that they wrote, it makes them feel important.
Out of those only Anime-koi likes honorifics. Other groups don't have allergy but prefer to omit them, at least recently. Two-three years ago things were much different.
The ultimate irony is that weebs don't actually know moon, so they don't know what they're missing other than 'pls say onii-chan in the subs pls'
Then what you described is extremely subjective, which is why I guess we're having this discussion in the first place.
But CoalGuys is better in this comparison.
You meant the UTW that changed a character's name because it was based on a Japanese word?
I thought it was from being complete shit.
There was, but mostly gaping sub only plot holes.
They leave them in at least as much as they take them out.
But yeah, Commie's style guide has had a deplorable impact on the scene recently.
Though Underwater seems to have stopped stroking their own egos long enough to listen to what the fans want and added an honorifics track to some of their shows.
>but trying to see when doing so actually damages the end product, like in this case.
Please share with us your standard, then. I do not see any damage done here.
Did you play Fate?
That's the thing, anon. The original context is easy to grasp from the gist of the subs and from whats going on in the show.
The only thing which was damaged here was your retarded ego.
There has been plenty of series in which Onii-chan is left untranslated and not a single thread has been made in complaint to those series, and now when there is a justifiable reason to leave it in everyone starts complaining.
Commie a shit.
In fairness based off of the subs on the right this show probably was kind of unfunny to begin with.
Yes. People here are going nuts over an imaginary double meaning.
>OH YOU PITIFUL ANIME FANS, YOU KNOW NOT WHAT YOU WANT, LET ME, THE MIGHTY FANSUBBER, EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY YOUR PREFERENCES ARE WRONG AND WHY YOU SHOULD GLADLY EAT WHATEVER SUBS I SHIT OUT
>BE THANKFUL THAT I WITH MY TEAM'S UNLIMITED KNOWLEDGE OF JAPANESE CULTURE AND LANGUAGE, SIFT THE TRUE MEANING OF THE DIALOGUE FROM THE CHAFF AND DELIVER UNTO YOU ONLY THE PUREST AND UNSPOILT TRANSLATION THAT EVEN YOUR PUNY LAYMAN BRAINS CAN COMPREHEND
>NO! NO NEED TO THANK ME!
>BUT BE WARNED, O YE OF INFINITESIMAL INTELLECT, FOR IF YOU DARE TO QUESTION THE ALMIGHTY DAIZ AND HIS TEAM'S MASTERY OF NIHONGO, YOU SHALL BE SMITTEN AND YOUR ANIMES CAST DOWN IN TO THE PIT OF STALLED SHOWS
>THUS SAYETH THE DAIZ
Just because you're used to something doesn't mean it's right.
People used to complain about DVDs.
Of course, people don't mind when certain common terms are left untranslated, even moreso when they have a plot-related reason to be there.
The script certainly wasn't so your side is the only possibility.
No one is talking of "right" except retarded fansubbers.
What we're talking about is that people easily and comfortably accepts having those terms left untranslated, so the problem doesn't exist except than in said fansubbers's minds.
I don't think you're addressing the right guy.
The best translation is one that is written as if it was intended for the target audience and its culture. In other words, it should feel as if someone wrote it in the target language to begin with. I don't understand why this is heresy among /a/nons.
This. It's just fansubber egos. They keep claiming they're translating for this nebulous audience of poor confused fans who won't understand honorifics or words like "onii-chan" even though it's the fans of the shows who are complaining about taking them out.
Except in no way can one say translating it is a superior decision.
People want a script that feels like it was written in weeb to begin with.
It's certainly superior to not translating it.
But you can hear your precious "onii-chan" all the same.
It's because they want to feel good about themselves because they know what onii-chan means. They'll deny it but deep down they know I'm right.
>It's certainly superior to not translating it.
Even when doing so actively damages the very thing you're translating?
The point is that it doesn't damage it, though.
There's that inapplicable word again.
It does, as it removes all of Illya's innuendo and possible double meaning.
Your fansubber ego of "gotta translate everything" falls flat to 0 compared to delivering the story as good and as possibly close as the original thing.
There is no correct way to do it, therefore one should relay on previously set precedents, since no one complains when it is not translating it but people complain when it is, it would make more sense then to leave it untranslated.
I thought this was an imageboard?
>removing Illya's double meaning and possible foreshadowing
>removing Sakura's respectful addressing of shirou
>creating conflict with Rin's own way of addressing him
I see plenty of damage.
Alright, so I watched the Horriblesubs version of this episode. The white-haired girl seems to be a 'mysterious, elegant, yet playful' loli character.
Is there anything I'm missing about her opening scene because of the translation? Or is this whole argument a crock of shit concocted by angry autists?
>Downloading anything other than UTW
Don't try to employ logic and words with them anon, ego doesn't listen to anything but their own.
Yeah you're missing the part where Archer is Shirou from the future.
>TL note: Kuro means crow
How come Shirou can comeback from the future as as spirit but not Kiritsugu or anyone else?
That's exactly what I was talking about in terms of detail lost. If you leave it as "Onii-chan", it's a slippery slope -- moreover, to the viewer, I'd argue that the double meaning isn't conveyed.
They're not badass enough
>double meaning and possible foreshadowing
Doesn't exist. They are total strangers at that point, and there is no reason to think otherwise unless you have already read the VN or watched F/Z.
>Sakura's respectful addressing
Respect isn't limited to how you address someone. This is a problem for a text-only work.
>creating conflict with Rin's own way of addressing him
Did you not see all of Kiritsugu's guns?
So since you're afraid of this slippery slope you choose to simply remove everything?
Sounds like a coward's and easy way out to me.
Kiritsugu isn't some epic hero of legend. He's just some nobody with guns and a few magic tricks.
>m-muh double meaning
She's not his little sister, shut up.
>Doesn't exist. They are total strangers at that point, and there is no reason to think otherwise unless
Do you even know what "foreshadowing" means?
It's literally something you/the character don't know at the moment but becomes real and clear later on.
>Respect isn't limited to how you address someone.
Still "senpai" is an indicative of that and should be mantained, lest you damage the end product.
If you leave it as "Onii-chan", it would also stick out like a sore thumb. The something subtle would become more pronounced, which, in your terms, would damage the product in another sense.
But not everything's removed. Which version of the subs are we talking about again?
And Sakura is Caster.
Who said anything about being a little sister?
The fact that Illya's actually his older sister is part of the innuendo. Try to keep up.
>Do you even know what "foreshadowing" means?
Then the correct translation would be "Brother" then?
Can't you see that leaving untranslated words is much more of an easy way out? Do you even read what you write?
How about you grow up and deal with the fact that languages aren't equal? Rither deal with the subs or learn Japanese to watch raw.
What's Shiro legend, iirc he's like batman or something.
As I said, the lesser of two evils.
If you can't fit both sides perfectly you should always choose the original work, not your own.
You do it by a case by case basis. If you know the word has hidden meanings/is really hard to convey the point in english or some kind of japanese wordplay fuckery then you try to keep it as it is and if it doesn't then translate, just keep it consistent within the show and it should be fine. Then it shouldn't become so much of a slippery slope that way.
>I'd argue that the double meaning isn't conveyed
It has more meaning to it than just removing it entirely by translating it.
Not subtle enough. As said multiple times there's no "correct" translation in this case, which is why it should be left intact.
Get over yourself. The story doesn't lose anything from not including your perceived 'foreshadowing'.
Fuck, I hate people who tout that word like it's some sort of golden gem that all writers need to shoehorn into their stories.
The scene in this episode contributes nothing extra to their relationship. If you don't know about it, you'll find out later. If you do know, you already see the relevance of Ilya coming to meet Shirou.
He's a hero but in the end something fifn't work out and people being ungrateful bitches turned their backs on him.
>As I said, the lesser of two evils.
You forgot to add "in my opinion"
Leaving untranslated words at the cost of your own ego/translation consistency is much less of an easy way out.
>The scene in this episode contributes nothing extra to their relationship. If you don't know about it, you'll find out later. If you do know, you already see the relevance of Ilya coming to meet Shirou.
You really have no idea of what a foreshadowing is.
They're meant to be enjoyed retroactively.
>looking for the substitute is easier than ignoring the problem
You're retarded. Leaving words untranslated is the easy way out because the translator doesn't have to think through the cultural lens of his target audience. He just shifts the work to them and hope they understand it.
If you apply that logic, you would get a pretty shitty script. Sometimes entire sentences have double meanings. Do you not see why this is a slippery slope?
Like I mentioned, leaving Onii-chan in wouldn't be subtle. It'd be much more pronounced.