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If you have a catalyst, but the Heroic Spirit can't be summoned into any of the available classes, what happens?
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>>115309638
Then the Servant gets summoned as one of the classes.
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It put gilgamesh into archer because he fires swords. The class system is really stupidly flexible
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What would Saitama be summoned as?
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>>115309638
if there is an slot your servant will be summoned int othat slot no matter what
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>>115309679
Berserker
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>>115309679
Saitama's a true hero, he can't be summoned as a heroic spirit.
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If someone would try summon a Servant that would conflict with the rules of the War (for example on Caster is left, but someone tries to summon a Knight who cant use any magic at all), then the grail simply wouldn't summon it. The grail has basically chosen all the Masters and Servants beforehand.
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>>115309675
But that's because the actual meaning of the Archer-class isn't 'Bowman', but 'Ranger'. If someone utilizes several weapons and tactics, rather than just fighting with a single weapon, they will be an 'Archer'.
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>>115309638
I reckon you get a different hero that fits one of the open slots.
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what classes could redman be summoned as?
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>>115309780
[Citation Needed]
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I assume it discards the catalyst and picks whatever Heroic Spirit for you, after all, the catalyst is just for making sure you get the correct Hero.
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>>115309806
Rapper
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>>115309806
I've got no idea.
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>>115309808
Nasu on what Classes Herakles is strongest as. He mentions Archer fits him best as it allows him to use his mind and tactics to their utmost, and he is a "Ranger-type character".
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>>115309638
Maybe you'll get a related heroic spirit that qualifies for one of the available classes.

But, more likely, that situation just will not happen because of some combination of fate and the Counter Force.
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>>115309808
As >>115309851 said, regarding Herakles. However, it's also the stated reason EMIYA fits Archer, because he utilizes skills rather than strong stats.
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>>115309780
Then why is it archer and not ranger?
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>>115309882
Because Ranger sounds stupid. Either that or Nasu couldn't into his own lore.
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>>115309638
Start's looking for someone related to the catalyst and also suitable for an open class.

E.g. You have Avalon, but everything save Caster is taken. In that case, Merlin or Morgana will show up.
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>>115309882
Why is it Saber when they don't use swords other than sabers?

Why is it Lancer when they use polearms other than lances?
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>>115309638
They'll replace a class just like with what happened to Avenger.
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>>115309882
Why is it Archer if none of the characters summoned as Archer use a Bow as their primary weapon?

Answer: Nasu thought it sounded cooler that way.
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>>115309808
Q:バーサーカーとして召喚されたヘラクレスですが、彼はセイバーやアーチャーにもなれそうです。もし彼が別のクラスで召喚されていたら、どのクラスになるのが一番実力を発揮できたでしょうか。

A:意外なことにアーチャー。アーチャーはレンジャーでもあるので、数々の試練を知恵と機転で乗り越えた彼には馴染みのいいクラスなのです。
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>>115309851
>>115309879
>Gilgamesh
>use his mind and tactics to their utmost
>utilizes skills rather than strong stats
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>>115310007
He uses his mind and tactics to act like an asshole then die like a bitch with great effectiveness.
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>>115309851
If saber has the best allrounder stats then that's what would fit Herakles best.
He rassles, he shoots arrows, he hits shit with clubs, he phalanx's it up, he sword n shields.
Saber would let him do his other shit well.
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>>115310007
Excluding Noble Phantasms, Gil's only A-level stat is Luck. Other than that, he has the Charisma, Divinity, and Golden Rule Skills, all of which normally would be A-level or above.

By Nasu's standards, that's a ranger.
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>>115309658
Thread/
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>>115310064
It's mostly due to the fact that Nine Lives has different properties depending on what weapon he's using. With a bow, it's practically danmaku.
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>>115310064
See >>115309990

The Archer-class doesn't have as good stats, but it would provide the most fitting class for Herakles as it allows for more skills than usual, and is the one best suited for Nine Lives.
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>>115309679
Archer.
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>>115309806

assassin

can't see jigaboos in the dark

and they all look alike
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>>115309675
It put him into that class because it's a class for ranged weapon users, and because he doesn't actually know how to use the weapons within the GoB beyond the most basic sense.
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>>115309679
The answer is so obvious but I guess nobody else has read enough OPM.

Saitama is summoned as: Savior Class
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>>115309756
Or the summon fails.
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>>115310114
But that's wrong. If it doesn't fit a class it can become a special class like Avenger and Buddha. In Avenger's case, this special class even replaced a class used in the battle to keep things balanced.
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>>115310353
>Avenger
>keep things balanced

But he's the worst Servant in history, anon.
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>>115309882
>why is it saber when they can use all sorts of weapons like clubs or axes!
>why is it lancer when they can use all sorts of long weapons like various polearms or ridiculously big swords!
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Odyesses would make a shit tier Servant because all he does is outwit people.
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>>115310382
Lancer can use a short weapon as long as they're fucking fast as shit.

They can also use exclusively ranged weapons because nobody gives a fuck.
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>>115310406
But he must have high strength in order to draw the bow of Apollo. Speaking of which, sounds like a great noble phantasm.

Not to mention he has high magic resistance due to Circe's potion.

There's also the whole divine lineage thing, that must give him some sort of trait.
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>>115310064
Independent action is a better trait for herakles than magic resistance, mad enhancement or battle continuation is. It makes him a bit easier to supply with mana and allows him to fight very independently of his master.

If you've read the Herakles mythology his strongest asset wasn't his strength, or his divinity, or etc... It was his intelligence.
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>>115310406
He had a bow so powerful he was the only person even capable of stringing it.
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So far Berserker Lancelot was the strongest servant.

Drawing out Arondight gives him full rank boost to all stats.

>EX Strength
>EX Defense
>EX Agility
>B Magical Energy
>A Luck
>EX NP

All has protection of the fairies so Luck overides Magical attacks.

However also so far the most consuming prana servant.
Kariya died so that is why Lancelt lost.

Dark Sakura tier only would survive.
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>>115310106
Gil's mana is also A. His stats are kind of amazing given his container.
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>>115310444
>>115310457
So would you have rather have irrespective of class designation:

- Odysseus
- Achilles
- Hector

>>115310444
Is that from the Troy movie? Fuck Achilles he was a dick.
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>>115310407
Actually no, in order to qualify as a lancer you *must have one 'long' weapon as a noble phantasm*. Just like sabers *must* have one 'sword' sized thing and riders *must* have a mount of some sort.

Those are part of the class container requirements
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>>115310444
>Noble Phantasm: Bow of Apollo (Rank B, Anti-Unit)
>Godspeed Arrow
>Any projectile fired by this bow will always hit its target the moment it has been fired.
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>>115310120
I only remember him using nine lives once with BASERCAR's sword faggity faggot
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>>115310504
>Forgetting Ajax and Nestor
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>>115310460
You don't seem to know how stats rank up.
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>>115310481
Yeah, you're right. The only reason Gilgamesh isn't 2stronk is because he thinks he's 2stronk.
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>>115310460
I don't think that's how the Arondight statboost works, Anon
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>>115310523
Nine Live Blade Works != Nine Lives.
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>>115310504
Hector. Do you really think I could master Odysseus or Achilles? Hell never mind that, even Hector? Anyway, bet on your strengths.
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>>115310444
He's have extremely high mana, high luck (maybe even EX ranked?), and otherwise decent stats. The dude got a draw in wrestling against Ajax, and is considered the opposite in all ways to Achilles.
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>>115309638
Either you get someone related to the catalyst that fits it, or if possible one of the "unused class" slots may happen like avenger/saviour/ruler etc etc
This all depends on whether or not they answer the call as well.
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>>115310601
Ooh, good point. Can't a catalyst technically work for summoning people it was used AGAINST by its owner too?
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>>115310588
He's also supposedly the great-great-grandson of Hermes, so has some sort of divinity/partial demi-godhood which might explain Athena's obsession with helping him out.
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What class is tupac?
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I think the real reason to summon Odysseus is to bro it up with him. Motherfucker is crazy, teatime with Archer wouldn't even compare.
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>>115310720
Rider
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>>115310720
Certainly not Lancer, he got hit with Projectiles.
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>>115310460
He doesn't get EX rank stats nigger.
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>>115309851
Wouldn't Herc be best as an Archer because that is the weapon he uses the most in mythology?

He's known for the club, but he uses the bow more.
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>>115310720
Nigger.
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>>115309679
Your pathetic grail isn't good enough.
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>>115310457
>>115310406
>>115310444
>all he does is outwit people.
>he was the only person even capable of stringing it
It wasn't because he was strong enough to string it but because it had a trick only he could solve. There were plenty of pricks stronger than him that tried to string it, it's a matter of torsion and applied strength rather than high quantity.
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>>115310990
This doesn't change the fact that Odysseus is fucking strong as fuck, canonically. He tussles with the best of them in physical combat.
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>>115310990
>There were plenty of pricks stronger than him that tried to string it
I don't recall it ever mentioning that anybody there was stronger than him.
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>>115311086
Telemachos could've done it but either way, Odysseus effortlessly strung the bow, meaning that strength was irrelevant to the task and intellect was what mattered.
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>>115310738
I like you.
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>>115311152
In the same fucking scene it says that Odysseus has god-like strength. I don't know where you're getting the trick thing from.

Odysseus wrestles with the grandson of Zeus, and is related to Hermes. He's strong.
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>everyone wants saber
what's the point of the class system? why even is there one? just summon the damn spirits and let them have at it. bonuses / detriments be damned
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>>115311152
Odysseus is still a demigod. He has all the stats. Just because he's more famous for brains doesn't mean he has no brawn.
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>>115311267
>e-rank luck
>people still summon lancer

This is the bigger problem.
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>>115311267
The 3 main families in charge of it intentionally rigged the game.
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>>115310878

It's more like because he's a tactical and versatile person.
He'd still show extreme might as Saber, of course.
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If Rider was able to turn monstrous in FSN, how powerful would she have been?
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>>115311477
She totally COULD have, she just didn't want to because it was akin to going berserk.

Besides, it would have made her a huge target and gotten her killed.
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>>115311477
Why is Rider so powerful anyway? She was just a cursed human.
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>>115311267
The class system was both a 'necessity' (souls need vessels to be placed into) and designed to be rigged by the 3 families (tohsaka, einzburn, matou).

Everyone wants saber because it's perceived to be good (saber has always made it either to the end or very close to the end) - not because it's actually good, there's quite a few better servants, saber is just from a base stat standpoint the best container.
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>>115311642
Caster was powerful too. All the Servants were, it's just the circumstances they were in.

Couldn't Caster summon a dragon or something? I would have loved if we got to see stuff like that instead of bone soldiers.
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>>115311477

Define "powerful". Artoria and Cu would annihilate her, Archer could probably work around gorgon form, it offers no real advantage against Herakles.. so it just helps with Caster?
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>>115311477
She would have died. We have this question basically in some form near every nasuverse thread, and the answer is-
It's a really shitty idea to turn into a monster in a battle between heros famous for killing monsters, or being general badass humans.
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>>115311477
She could turn monstrous any time she wanted to, it ranked up her strength to A but caused her problems in some other ways.... and it's generally a bad thing to do in a war of 'heroes', as heroes exist to kill monsters.

>>115311642
She was a human goddess (her divinity rank would have matched gilgameshes) who was cursed and later set up to be the foil for another hero. The 'Proof of a Hero' can really be said to be the challenges they overcome, and Monstrous Rider was certainly one hell of a challenge.
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>>115311717

She has the argon coin, but not the knowledge of how to activate it.
If she did, she'd move up to mid-rank, which is probably above Medusa and Archer.
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>>115311723
Archer has Harpe - the sicke/sword that killed her originally
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>>115311717
She had the catalyst but wasn't able to summon the dragon because she lacked the knowledge of summoning phantasmal beasts.
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>>115311678
Also berserkers are perceived to be bad/dangerous because every master who has summoned one has had issues controlling them to the point where *all of the magic was sucked out of them*. Not because the berserker class is bad, but because it's dangerous, some berserkers can really wreck shit.
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>>115311767

No, Gilgamesh has Harpe (the weapon data only updates after encountering Gil). It's unclear what weapons Archer has access to, but it's definitely not the whole of the Gate of Babylon (at least until after UBW route, as he was spying on the whole fight).
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>>115311798
I meant Gil. Archer has also seen harpe though.
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>>115311828

We don't know that.
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>>115311678
A Servant class is half way between a mold and a bag. In some ways the heroic spirit is forced to take a shape by the mold, in some ways the heroic spirit forces the bag to accept the shape of the hero. There are no hard rules as to exactly how it breaks down.

Just remember, a Servant is not the original hero. The legend the hero inspired creates the heroic spirit, and the heroic spirit is called down into the container of a Servant. It's two steps removed from the original hero*. So there's lots of room for things to change.

*Saber is different because she's a special snowflake and traveling in the flesh. Don't even bring her up in relation to normal Servant operation.
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>>115311863
Archer is the endpoint of the Emiya Shirou that becomes a hero. If all of the other Emiya Shirous that do not become heroic spirits have access to Harpe, it would stand to reason that the most powerful one would too.
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>>115311959

HF Shirou never sees it.
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If Saber and Rider combined their Noble Phantasms, could they have taken down Gilgamesh or Berserker with one strike?
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>>115311922

It should really be said the heroic spirit is the only hero.
Any peoples, real or fictional, that built up the legend, are retroactively replaced by the heroic spirit due to human belief.
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>>115311959
It all depends on whether he saw it in his route, or not. It is quite possible he doesn't have Harpe.
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>>115311979
>could they have taken down Gilgamesh or Berserker with one strike?
Maybe, just maybe Gil, Herc cannot be OHKO unless you have some real nasty conceptual ability.
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>>115311738
But Medusa was a normal priestess who got cursed.
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>>115311979
Gil sure. Gil has a lot of firepower but he isn't especially durable.
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>>115311979

Excalibur + Bellerophon would blast through Enuma Elish, certainly. As Pegasus has the defensive capacity of a dragon, being reinforced by the golden reins and A+ (and B) Riding skills, I imagine it would be fast enough to blow through the Gate of Babylon before Gil can mount a proper defensive bombardment as well.
Berserker too, probably. It's implied a full power Excalibur will wipe him all twelve times in one shot in the bad end where she fails to fire Excalibur at all.
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>>115312048
After being raped by poseiden or something, right? Slightly tired, forgot.
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>>115312048

Play hollow ataraxia for fuck's sake. There's multiple versions of a legend. Or are you going to complain that Lancelot doesn't real, french fanfiction etc?
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How does caster in ubw find out about shirou past? She know that shirou is a victim of the fire that is caused by the grail and she even mention about kiritsugu saving him.
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>>115312121
If she's Archer's master, probably probed his mind.
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>>115312016
The Throne existing outside of time makes things complicated though. For example, Archer comments on having seen the original Gungnir in action during the UBW route, and it's unlikely that he faced it during the 5th war of his lifetime.
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>>115312121

She is an immensely powerful magus with immensely powerful scrying magic. I wouldn't be surprised if she looked through his memories, or had some spell to examine the past.
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>>115312121
Shes caster. The only answer shall be Its magic.
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>>115312048
Note in fate/ her and her sisters were human goddesses that were wished for by humanity - making them simultaneously divine and human/mortal. She did get raped by Poseidon though.
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>>115312081
Speed wouldn't stop it from sustaining damage. Barreling through GoB has thus far only "worked" for Saber, and she owned Avalon.
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Can't wait to see the reactions when kuzuki beat up saber and shirou defeating Gilgamesh once again.
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>>115312226
Low tier. The real fun is going to be the Saber Rape and Gilgamesh removing loli. All those secondary tears.
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>>115311979
Gilgamesh isn't super strong in and of himself, you know. Excalibur alone is strong enough to finish him.

The problem is that he has overwhelming offensive power.
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>>115312207

Saber has shown aptitude with clapping her mount in her own magical armor in Fate/Zero. Pegasus with Bellerophon was described as having A+ class defenses in addition to its offense, as being on the level of dragons. That kind of speed combined with power (again also assuming Saber is blazing the golden sword of promised victory to cover their entry) would be sufficient to plow through.
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>>115312226
There's going to be a lot of secondary tears over a great deal of shit.
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>>115312259
That's largely true of anything powerful in the Nasuverse. Most really strong things are a lot more heavily skewed to offense than defense. And the things that DO have good defenses are usually more of the "Doesn't die if killed" variety, rather than tanking damage.
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>>115312207

It worked fine for Alexander too, till Enkidu came to bear.
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>>115312269
With Excalibur, and against GoB, yes. Gilgamesh will never allow it, but sure, it would overpower the Gate.

But the pegasus alone wouldn't cut it.
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>>115312295
>And the things that DO have good defenses are usually more of the "Doesn't die if killed" variety, rather than tanking damage.
Herakles is both, though. Shrugs off anything below Rank A magic and comes back stronger than ever even if you do manage to fatally wound him.
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>>115312254
Anyone that isn't sad about removed loli can fuck off my /a/.
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>>115312309
He had bonus modifiers against Gate of Babylon, and Gil was waiting to snare Iskandar with Enkidu.
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>>115312259
Doesn't his golden turtleshell take a lot of hits? I remember it only took a moment to wear it. If Berserker rushed him, in the UBW fight, and he decided to pop it on, would he have taken a hit from Berserker's axe sword?
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>>115312295
>>115312344
Nrvnqsr Chaos is the type of "eats all your damage, regenerates even faster" variety too.
It just happens that his opponent was a perma-death type.
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>>115312344
Usually, I said. I was mostly thinking of Nrvnqsr and Arc when I said that. Also Roa, I guess, and in a way TATARI, though that's a slightly more straightforward "Can't be killed."

And of course there's shit that has terrifying offensive AND defensive power like the other Types and Primate Murder.
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>>115312381
His armor isn't particularly strong compared to, say, Saber's. It wouldn't save him from a direct hit from a Noble Phantasm or somebody on Herakles' level.

The problem is Gil's offensive spam is so strong hardly anybody can get a chance to hit him.
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>>115312381

It took many hits from Saber's sword when it was wrapped in Invisible Air. That is, roughly, just below 10% of its actual strength. Berserker, whose strength is colossal and stated to be greatest amongst the servants by Nasu, would probably be a different story.
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>>115312381
Gil himself doesn't even care much for the armor. It's mostly to protect against curses, magic, petrifying, and all that. Physical attacks he can usually overwhelm with GoB one way or another.
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>>115312425
Saber's armor isn't nearly as versatile, so I wouldn't say it's better.
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>>115312425
It does protect him from physical NPs at the level of tsubame gaeishi at least.
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>>115312043
>Herc cannot be OHKO

Yes he can.
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>>115312513
That's another shield. Gil has a lot of situational bullshit in his vault that he takes out to perfectly counter the opposition.
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>>115312513
Tsubamegaeshi isn't technically an NP, is it?
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>>115312522
Read the rest of the post before replying.
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>>115312504
It's enchanted to resist magic and is pretty durable, and I haven't seen Gil's armor demonstrate any properties that much greater than it.
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>>115312557
FA swordsmanship was so great it reached into NP territory.
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>>115312586
Nothing like that required. All you need to do is hit him hard enough.
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>>115312436
Saber's sword is only 10% under Invisible Air? Does that mean she would have cut Zero Lancer in half if she had it unwrapped? She is powerful.

If Rider was under Sakura would she be able to do well against Gilgamesh? If he's too cool and hip to wear his turtleshell, then he could be petrified, correct? I imagine the hook that got her would make a return, though.
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>>115312425
>>115312436
I kinda want to see Gil get smashed by Berserker now. You know it'd be great.
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>>115312663
Archer Herc vs Gil would be a great fight.
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>>115312646
>Saber's sword is only 10% under Invisible Air? Does that mean she would have cut Zero Lancer in half if she had it unwrapped? She is powerful.

That wild charge she committed to was going to end up with a double kill if she continued it, in a depressing reversal of her defeat of Mordred.
>>
>>115312646
Rider has almost no defensive abilities though, she'd be turned into a pincushion by GoB spam if she stood still for even a second. Plus you know Gil probably has some bullshit artifact to resist mystic eyes or something. Maybe a giant mirror.
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>>115312663
Puny King
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>>115312646
His prana is more than sufficient to deal with Cybele and don his armor. Rider stands next to no chance.

As if her odds weren't low enough, Gilgamesh also fucking hates snakes.
>>
Finally a nostalgic fate thread after all the shit thread.

>>115312663
But Enkidu would hold Berserker since the higher the divinity, the stronger Enkidu strangles.
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>>115312663
All you get to see is Berserker maimed beyond recognition as his loli is tortured.
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>>115312705
Gilgamesh and Saber are too powerful. What if the were thrown into the mix with the Apocrypha or EXTRA Servants? Then do they have any rough competition?
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>>115312768
Saber does.

The fact that the Moon Cell itself deemed Gilgamesh so powerful the grail war would be over before it even started should answer the rest.
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>>115312768
Karna.

Maybe Semiramis.
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>>115312768
Gil would have a particularly worthy opponent in Karna. Saber would have a ton of strong rivals, particularly Mordred, with whom fate would force a mutual kill.
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>>115312768
Saber already had competition outside of Apocrypha and Extra.
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>>115312811
The Moon Cell didn't deem Gil the only one or are Gilfags this delusional?
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>>115312768

Buddha is pretty unfair. His NP basically launches you into enlightenment and you forget you were never not the Buddha.
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>>115312811
>so powerful the grail war would be over before it even started

Complete fanwank
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>>115312920
He was locked away for a reason.
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>>115312811
Maybe because he could destroy Moon Cell itself?
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>>115312768
Saber isn't realy that powerful.
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>>115312977
Except he can't.
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>>115312993

She is when she's got Avalon.
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If you have a rock from mars as a catalyst would you be able to summon ORT as a servant?
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>>115312768
Saber is powerful but other servant can match him. Hey there's Gawain in extra which is said on par with Saber, and Gawain blessing of the sun bullshit make him stronger than Saber since she doesn't have Avalon and the fact that losing Avalon is part of Arthur's legend.

Maybe vlad could also defeat him.

For Gilgamesh, if he is as an Archer he could be matched but it would be so hard to kill him at the point of almost impossible and need special condition of every aspect of war. He would also may use his Ea if he acknowledge any of the heroes.

Gilgamesh without limit like in CCC on the other hand, is instant GG.
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>>115312998
*mercury
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>>115312998

>Mars

you're about three planets off there buddy.
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>>115312996
Couldn't he? It's a Reality Marble, isn't it? And Enuma Elish breaks Reality Marbles.
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>>115312996
I am pretty sure Ea at full power could.
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>>115312768
Well, there's Karna, Achilles, Chiron, Saviour, Sieg, Semi, Jeanne, Apocrypha Vlad and Mordred that are quite worhty opponents.

There are also some minor threats like Li Shuwen, Nursery Rhyme and SwagSpeare.
>>
>>115309638
Wait out of all the human ancient mythology's which hero is actually the strongest?
as in complete demonbane bullshit strong
>>
>>115313039
>>115313051
Gilfags proving themselves to be retards like usual.
>>
>>115313039
>>115313051

The Moon Cell Automaton is EXTRA's equivalent to Type-Moon, it is an existence far beyond anything else. It would simply delete Gilgamesh if he became problematic.
>>
what if there's a HGW involving servants with Abilities/NPs that hides their identity or Fakers?

Mordred masquerading as Arturia
Lancelot as Berserker
EMIYA as Archer
Arturia as Lancer who uses her magical dagger to hide her face
Sherlock Holmes
as Caster and Protag's servant

story revolves on figuring out who the servants are
>>
>>115312997
I dont understand. Avalon is defensive right? Yeah she can defend againt ea or gaebolg. But against servant who dont rely on np special attack like berserker, its useless.
>>
>>115310538
>>115310565
>>115310869

Berserker Lancelot is still GOAT

>greatest of the round table
>For Someone's Honor is a bretty gud passive to have
>dem NPs
>GOAT armor
>dat Arondight
>>
>>115313061

Single strongest hero would be Gilgamesh if you manage to convince him to treat the fight seriously.
Nearly impossible due to his overconfidence.
>>
>>115313061
George Washinton
>>
>>115310460
Negro plz. Also Arondight a shit. Kills master faster than Heracles can
>>
>>115313039
Moon Cell isn't a reality marble and revealing Earth's origins wouldn't do any good to the Moon Cell considering it is older than the Earth and has been observing Earth for billions of years before Earth came into existence.
>>
>>115313082
Yes it could and does. All I am saying is he has a possibility to destroy it.
>>
>>115312842
Could FSN Saber take down Saber of Black? What about Lancer of Black?

>>115312817
How similar is Semiramis to FSN Caster? She looks sorta close but more interesting. Has the whole dual-class thing going on.

>>115312993
I was thinking the whole two holy swords, Avalon and dragon reactor thing.
>>
>>115313098

It's also titanic regeneration and a boost to her magical energy, allowing her to utilize Excalibur more readily.
>>
>>115313051
Ea is only good against opponents from Gaia.

It is useless against Aliens who aren't from Earth and don't even have any Earth origins.
>>
>>115310064
>make one of the most fmous, all-round, intelligent demi-god hero into slob spilling retard because "muh betrayal"

wasn't Hercules being dutiful one of his stronger traits too? Why the fuck would you waste it on BASAKA. Theres plenty of hero/monsters based on pure strength alone.
>>
>>115313152
Those don't have proper concepts of death, but they can still be destroyed by Ea physically.
>>
>>115313138
Semiramis is a class above FSN Caster. Magic is more powerful and her NPs are definitely much more powerful too.
>>
>>115313152
So then would it be useless against Arc, since she's the successor to Type-Moon?

I'm opening up a can of worms and I don't give a fuck.
>>
>>115313127
Sorry but Gil has zero possibility to destroy it.

Ea isn't even anti-planet. The only first time ever anti-planet NP introduced in Fate belongs to Kiara
>>
>>115313114
>gilgamesh
nigga got equalled by a animal man and got the gays when it died
Krishna on the other hand
>>
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>>115310406
>summon Oedipus instead of Odyesses
>he fucks your mom
>>
>>115313159
The Einzberns summoned him as Berserker intentionally, because they both believed Illya could control him just fine with her hax Command Seals, and because if he were sane, it's likely he would have murdered the fuck out of the rest of the family for what they did to Illya (Since he's extremely soft for children).
>>
>>115313174
>but they can still be destroyed by Ea physically.

Sorry but Ea isn't anti-planet
>>
>>115313215
Oedipus didn't even know he was fucking his mom for the longest time.
>>
>>115313174
>>115313127
secondaries not even once
>>
>>115313193
Which servant Arc can't defeat? I don't care if it's, F/A, F/SN. F/Z, F/E or F/E CCC. I just want to know.
>>
>>115313141
Source for mana Boost
>>
>>115313203
It may not be anti-planet. But its special characteristics put it into a special category. Similarly to avalon.
>>
>>115313174
Aliens wouldn't care about primordial earth unlike Earth beings.
>>
>>115313249
If you can somehow summon Zelts as a servant then you are technically the winer
>>
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>>115313251
>>
>>115313249
Supposedly Gil gives her trouble because her backup from the planet doesn't account for his treasures in the Gate of Babylon. I'd be willing to bet anyone closely aligned with the sun, like Gawain or Tamamo, would have an advantage over her as well.
>>
>>115313227
Isn't Anti-world is enough to defeat alien creature?
>>
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>>115313215
More like he convinces you to fuck your mom.

>Summon Helen of Troy
>Get NTRd with another master
>>
>>115313281
by sheath she means penis anon
>>
>>115313104
This. Lancelot might not be the best servant, but he's pretty fucking cool, apart from the whole "must kill aturia" shit.
>>
>>115313227
You say that as though Ado Atem had anything anti - planet.
>>
>>115313226
so just like how he murdered his own family?
>>
>>115313301
dont off earth creatures have a different or no concept of death
>>
>>115313301
No, because aliens are not from earth and will not give one fucking shit about ancient earth or earth concepts.
>>
>>115313301
>implying earth rules apply to them
>>
Why is it called 'Lancer' and not 'Irishman'?
>>
>>115313184
Could Semiramis take out FSN Berserker? Looks that way to me. Would be interesting to see a short where she was summoned into the 5th War instead of Medea.
>>
>>115313344
Yes. I may be getting those from somewhere else completely, but for some reason i think he's under the effects of a self-geass that prevents him harming children, too. I have no idea where i got that though.
>>
>>115313234
oedipus pls stop posting
>>
>>115313272
They aren't immune to everything from Gaia. They just can't be killed.
>>
If Scylla can take form as human and be summoned as servant, what would be her Noble phantasm and parameters?
>>
>>115313364
Because there are non-Irish Lancers, as well as Irish heroes that fit into different classes.
>>
>>115313364
>Vlad
>Karna
>Liz
>Irish
>>
>>115313365
Nope.

Or at least I'd find it unlikely.

God Hand is pretty annoying to deal with.

Technically speaking she could just shoot Ilya in which case it's no contest.
>>
>>115313321

Nigga Slash Emperor is described as "星を食うもの" (trans: THAT WHICH CONSUMES THE STARS)
He fucking goes beyond anti-planet and into anti-cosmos
>>
>>115313374
>Said that as long as the battleground is earth, it has no weakness.
>>
>>115313365
I thought I'd read somewhere that all of Hanging Garden's beams were equal to Balmung. It would need to one-shot Berserker, and I somehow doubt it can.
>>
what class would Hitler be summoned in?
>>
>>115313411
Your mother.
>>
>>115313411
did nothing wrong class or avenger for short
>>
>>115313398
Just because something has no weaknesses doesn't mean it can't still be overcome with enough force.
>>
>>115313411
Savior.
>>
>>115310878
The VN itself says he would have been best as an archer. Hydra poison bow = everything dies or at least suffers miserably forever if they're immortal.
>>
>>115313398

That's an aristoteles, it is much more than just an alien being. It's a perfect ultimate one that converts the earth around it into mercury anyway.
>>
>>115313428
It won't even acknowledge your force in the first place because such force doesn't exist in its own planet.
>>
>>115313438
Hydra Poison bow with arrows that multiply mid-flight. He's pretty hax as Archer.
>>
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>>115313411
Obviously Führer
>>
>>115313347
I see, so it's just my concept is wrong. I'm not that gilfag guy by the way, just some curious guy.
>>115313300
Well Extra do said something about Tamamo and arc so that make sense. But Gawain? Really? Does that mean he can only be a strong opponent to Arc at daytime?
>>
>>115313394
I was thinking Berserker on his own, fueled by Command Seals.

If Shirou at the end of UBW, with Rin's mana taken in, would he have been able to take on Kirei in FZ?
>>
>>115313398
Having no weaknesses is markedly different from blanket immunity to everything Gaian. And that's ORT, not every alien.
>>
>>115313454
Wouldn't it just be 9 arrows shot at 9 weak points?
>>
>>115313460
Gawain can only be a strong opponent to anybody during the day. he gets nerfed to shit at night. Part of fighting him in Extra is hacking Moon Cell to make it Nighttime.
>>
>>115313464
funny thing though
ORT was not even the strongest one that received or responded to earths signal

I wonder who or what the strongest would be
>>
>>115313460
The Gilfags aren't even the ones at fault for once. Nothing says aliens are all immune to abilities born of Gaia.
>>
>>115309679
B-Class
>>
>>115313452
I'm pretty sure if the Crimson Moon did it's moon-drop shit on ORT then ORT would be reduced to a smear on the landscape, if that.

And besides, it can still get wrecked by Black Barrel or Slash Emperor.
>>
>>115313489
They're wrong anyway, because even if they are, Ea is explicitely stated to have been forged from a meteorite, which is one of the reasons Archer can't wrap his head around it, it's not earthly to begin with.
>>
>>115313492
But his A-Class now.
>>
>>115313461
Semiramis still wins. Assuming she has prep time to get Hanging Gardens rolling anyway. Outside of that...well if she gets presence concealment then Berserker being Berserker can't do shit.

Shirou at best in UBW vs Kirei in FZ. Hmm...

I'll go with Kirei in this. Reasoning being we know Kirei in FZ is equivalent to a servant and is fully capable of beating even Bazette and Bazette can beat Shirou any day. Battle strategy is pound Shirou's face in and call it a day.
>>
>>115312361
I don't think he was waiting. I think it was a last ditch to stop him when he somehow managed to actually get close enough to attack him even after an ea + bab-y-spam combo.
>>
>>115313411
Caster, probably.
>>
Lancelot as Saber

stronger that Artorias?
>>
>>115313554
I thought it was simply Gilgamesh showing respect to Iskander for his efforts in trying to defeat him + respecting Iskander himself.
>>
Can you bypass God Hand if you completely obliterate Berserker in one blow?
>>
>>115313565

Nah. Weaker than even his Berserk mode really.
More strategy in that he can use For Someone's Glory for misdirection, but at the same time opens up the chance for his wretched personality to lob a wrench into your plans.
>>
>>115313565
weaker
>>
>>115313500
Gilfags posting their fanfiction like usual.

Sorry but Ea was never stated to be forged from a meteorite.
>>
>>115313577

You don't "bypass" God Hand. You can obliterate him in one blow, but that requires killing an A rank endurance/A rank battle continuation hero twelve fucking times in a single shot. Good luck.
>>
>>115313577
I would say no. As God's Hand is a stock of lives rather than simply healing magic.
>>
>>115313577
IF you do enough damage to kill him all 12 times at once, yes. Only Ea and Excalibur can really do that though.
>>
>>115309638
You'll get a random hero pulled out of the hat if your catalyst isn't related to any summonable heroes.

If it's possibly related to multiple heroes, but the primary one is already class-locked out of the war then it might summon a different one that does qualify for an available class, but otherwise your effort in getting a catalyst just went to waste because you didn't hurry the fuck up and lock in the class you wanted.
>>
>>115313577
If you obliterate Herc in one blow it means you've already burned through all God Hand lives stock.

The only way to properly bypass God Hand is being Shiki or something like that, mostly very broken conceptual abilities.
>>
>>115313596

Does Arondight have some sort of excaliblast or is the parameter increase the only thing its got going for it?
>>
>>115313644

No blast far as we know. Lancelot was more of a "kill them all myself" type than a "draw my sword and the whole enemy army is defeated" type.
>>
>>115313618
>>115313626
>>115313628
>>115313641

Didn't Rin's magic crystal blew his head out?

I was imagine something like that, but 20 times as powerful.
>>
If Gilgamesh agreed to equip Rider's reality marble with his weapons, and all of his army had legendary weapons straight from the Gate of Babylon, could Rider defeat Zero Berserker if he is boosted with all three Command Seals?
>>
>>115313618
>>115313626
>>115313628
>>115313641
Reading that post, the first thing that came to mind was Arc's usage of Marble Phantasm against Roa in her route, where she basically atomized him above the ankles. I'd ask "what about that," but then I thought and realized, if Nine Lives Blade Works counts as multiple kills, then surely using Marble Phantasm in that manner would too.
>>
>>115313644
It also has +Dmg to dragon type enemies like Saber.
>>
>>115313685
>implying riders army was not a army of jobbers
youve got more chance of a duck winning a monster truck rally
>>
>>115313684
>Didn't Rin's magic crystal blew his head out?

It took 5 of her Gems. If Rin had used all of them Illya remarks that she could have even killed him 6 times. But you need to remember that is literally 15 years worth of Mana to half-kill him.
>>
>>115313685
Yes. Might take a while though.
>>
>>115313684
>>115313691

Rin blowing his head off killed him exactly once. It doesn't matter how gruesome it is, it matters if it kills him hard enough to cause the damage to wash into his next life too.
>>
>>115313691
But that it killing him multiple times before he can fully regenerate with his extra lives. That is not a single blow.
>>
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You get this guy as a servant in the caster class
what do?
>>
>>115313691
>if Nine Lives Blade Works counts as multiple kills, then surely using Marble Phantasm in that manner would too.

Didn't Berserker lost his God hand when the shadow got him?
>>
>>115313750

Enjoy the last stage play I'll ever watch as the entire city of Fuyuki gets caught in the night on the blood liar?
Hope the heroes have some pretty powerful nightmares?
>>
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>>115313750
Paint the town red. Bathe the streets in blood. No survivors.
>>
>>115313750
ask him to make Tatari Ebola-chan
>>
>>115313685
Nope, because none of Alexander's men have UBW and those NPs would be useless in their hands since they are unable to download the experience and history of the original weapon's master/user.

It would just be giving Alexander's men, fancy pieces of metal.

They would not be able to activate the NP.

For example, Gae Bolg in Alexander's hands would just be a fancy metal spear and Alexander would not be able to use any of its abilities.
>>
>>115313684
That doesn't bypass anything it's just a really strong attack.

To be more clear, imagine it as a classic RPG.

Let's say Herc has a HP gauge of 9999 or whatever, basically God Hand gives him other separate 12 HP gauges, let's say you have a really strong attack that does around 15000 HP of damage, it will burn through one and a half gauge, then let's say we use something like Gay Bulge, which has the property of ohko, it will instantly deplete one health bar if your Choo Choo train doesn't slip on a banana peel and impale himself.
Now let's say you're Shiki, you have a special attack that can erase the enemy based on the simple fact that it's a target, that goes beyond the concept of HP, guages and Stats so it does effectively bypass God Hand.
>>
So I'm like, 54% of the way through FHA, and Rin's barely showed up at all. I know she's supposed to appear late, but am I gonna get bombarded with a ton of scenes with her at some point, or is her overall presence pretty light?
>>
>>115313750
genuflect
>>
Zero Lancer vs. False Assassin. Who wins?
>>
>>115313841
You'll get bombarded with Rin in a few hours, it's glorious.
>>
>>115313858
Zero Lancer since there is no character called False Assassin.
>>
>>115313858
depends on the master
Zero lancer with Illya
>>
>>115313858
Speaking of false Assassin, i'd really like more of him. Fate/Extra Falsehood when?
>>
>>115313104
Lancelot is nifty, but there's more than a few people who wreck his shit.

Lu Bu > Lancelot. Cu Chulainn > Lancelot. Achilles > Lancelot. Diomedes > Lancelot. Cain > Lancelot. Roland > Lancelot (though that would be one hell of a fight to see).
>>
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>>115313868
Good to know.
>>
>>115313234

How? Was he blind?
>>
>>115313794

>tfw no Ebola-chan servant
>>
>>115313944
didnt know his true mum
>>
>>115313882
Fake Assassin. The samurai.
That's a boring fight anyway.


Gawain vs Karna
or
Tamamo against Gilgamesh.
>>
>>115313925
Lu Bu pls
you are worst chinaman
>>
>>115313858
Fake. He'll easily keep Lancer from entering the temple, and that's all he needs to do. While Lancer has no means of killing him due to A+ agi and luck.
>>
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This guy is summoned as Berserker. Wat do.
>>
>>115313976
How much do you hate Tamamo?
>>
>>115314055
>getting superman as a servant
curse myself for getting the weakest servant
>>
>>115314055
lol ea.
>>
>>115313411
He wouldn't, he was a fucking politician not a warrior. If you did get him you'd have one of the shittiest servants imaginable

If you really want Nazi's summon one of the fucking generals like Erwin Rommel or Heinz Guderian.

Guderian as a rider would be fucking terrifying because he *INVENTED* blitzkrieg... He'd come with tanks, and planes and bikes and he'd crush the everloving shit out of you so fast you'd be like 'whoa'.
>>
>>115314066
Tamamo could beat Gil. All you'd have to do is tell her Hakuno would do anything she asked once she wins

Gil wouldn't stand a chance.
>>
>>115313944
His father, upon learning of a prophecy that his then-infant son would one day kill him, take the throne, and fuck his mother the queen, ordered Oedipus' death. The soldier that carried out the order took pity on the baby and instead of actually killing him, simply abandoned him in the wilderness to die. Baby Oedipus was then found by a couple and raised as their own.

Years later, Oedipus learned of a prophecy where he would kill his father and fuck his mother. Not wanting to do either, he ran away from home. He then unknowingly came across his birth father traveling, they got into a fight, and Oedipus killed him.

He eventually came across his father's kingdom which was in disarray because the king had vanished and they were being terrorized by some monster, I want to say a sphinx. Oedipus then killed the monster, married the queen, and took the throne. Even fathered multiple children with her.

Years later he found out the truth, went mad and blind from grief, and eventually died.
>>
>>115313858
Kojirou, he is really strong. He could even 1v1 Berserker and pressure him (this scene happens in the background) but he didn't kill him because he can't. While his strength is not that much compared other servant, his technique is topnotch that it reached NP levels. He seems week because he is defeated by Saber. His technique is kinda broken that he should be on par againts Saber, Berserker (not including his life), and Lancer.
>>
>>115314055
lose since magic fucks him up
>>
>>115314055

>NP = cardboard world
>>
>>115314135
>that feel when oedipus is the very definition of E rank luck.
>>
>>115314116
Trying harder won't stop Gil from eating her alive.
>>
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>>115314055
Slap him
>>
Someone foreign has entered Fuyuki during the prologue, it's Nero Chaos. Archer discovers him and they have a battle to the death, who wins?

>>115314140
ufotable better animate some of this stuff. I always wanted to see how Lancer fought against the swordsman.
>>
>>115313644
No blast, just a stat-up and a bit of bonus damage to dragons.

Lancelot as Saber is weaker than Arthur, but causes infinitely more chaos with For Someones Glory and Knight of Honor. Then when the war comes to its final stages he pulls arondight sealing both FSG and KoH then wrecks people
>>
Can you summon Allah/Muhammed?

NOBLE PHANTASM:
Divine Promised Virgin
Rank A
Subdue and turn into loyal servant any being of male origin as long as master has enough mana for projection.

The Jihad
Rank EX
Once activated enemy servant blows up as long as he has even slight difference in faith.
>>
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This guy as Caster
>>
>>115314173
Yep. Fucked by fate, hard.

Julius Caesar would probably have horribly shitty Luck, too.
>>
>>115314140
> He could even 1v1 Berserker and pressure him
He also pressured every single other servant. And to be fair, Caster was supporting him. He's still pretty fucking awesome though, not everyone can reach Second Magic just by practicing swordsmanship long enough.
>>
>>115313976
Of course Tamamo. Ea would only feel like Excalibur since the anti-world can't scratch Tamamo.
>>
>>115314188
Nero all the way.

Even Arc couldn't fucking kill him.
>>
>>115314203

>not as basahka

think about it.
>>
>>115314177
Her waifu power is Infinite.
>>
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>>115314188
Better.

Neco Arc sneaks into Rin's mansion to steal some food and she gets Archer by accident.
>>
>>115313989
Guan Yu then?

Lu Bu would be a scary servant to summon as you'd likely get him in archer class - which means you're getting backstabbed fucker.
>>
>>115314188
archers gonna get raped
>>
>>115314199

Peace Be Upon Him - Rank B

>Islam forbids all depiction of the Prophet in art and literature, and as such can only be detected or identified by Rank A Thaumaturgy, Third Magics or Danish newspaper comics
>>
>>115314229
Arc's damage output isn't that great, and Nrvnqsr's whole thing is that he's INSANELY hard to kill because LOL CHAOS.

Archer throwing multiple Broken Phantasm Caladbolgs might be able to kill him. Might.
>>
>>115314228
Tamamo is weakshit. She isn't the goddess.
>>
>>115314229
reminder someone did the math and Gil Using EA would fuck full powered arc to hell and archer can fight against him fairly well.
Honestly he might be able to get away with copying caliburn, and blasting the tits off of Nero, he just needs a hard enough and large enough ranged attack to kill nero off.
>>
>>115314203
- He can resurrect himself once, even after complete destruction
- He automatically siphons mana from all Christians on a country scale
- He can summon the 12 apostles who are experts in their areas, giving him high flexibility
>>
>>115314287
hes also a holy shit level of powerful level of caster if you take some of the gnostic gospels into account.
>>
>>115314203
As has been said almost once in every thread - Jesus 1) Jesus was a pacifist not a warrior 2) High levels of divinity allow people to choose whether or not to compete in a WAR OF GREED TO SATE ONES OWN LUST and 3) He'd be a fucking awful servant because he wasn't a warrior.

If you must go with 'divine' figures, go with moses, or baron samedi both are wildly better than JEBUS.
>>
>>115314199
>Can you summon Allah/Muhammed?
No
>>
>>115314324
Jesus couldn't be summoned at all because he's too Divine. Gil wouldn't be able to be summoned, except his dislike of Gods lowers his divinity Rank to acceptable levels.
>>
>>115314203

Muhammad would be a good servant. Chilling back discussing best creature.
>>
>>115314286
>reminder someone did the math and Gil Using EA would fuck full powered arc to hell

You can stop samefagging about yourself.
>>
>>115314324
>Jesus was a pacifist not a warrior
The new testament says otherwise
>He'd be a fucking awful servant because he wasn't a warrior.
Buddha wasn't a warrior and it's an OP servant with Rank B in Atk.
>>
Gilgamesh strolls through Fuyuki's town one day and discovers something concerning, it's Ciel. Later that night, Gilgamesh, aware of what's going to happen, goes to deal with this invader.

Ciel is wearing her power-gear, Gil is wearing his turtleshell.

Who wins?
>>
>>115313946
Would Ebola-chan be summoned as Rider, Caster or Assassin?
>>
>>115314398
Ciel can fight DEFENSIVELY against an AVERAGE Servant.

Gil is certainly not an average Servant.
>>
>>115314398
Ciel
>>
>>115314397
Buddha was weak as shit though.
>>
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Aniki (Heroic Spirit BILLY) as Servant.
Catalyst : Billy's underwear

Class: Lancer

Skills:
"Fuck you Leather Man"
Rank B
If enemy is wearing anything that even resembles leather, Aniki gains +1 to all his stats for the battle period.

"Endless visage"
Rank D
Aniki can change his attire and aura at will.

Noble Phantasm:
"GAY BULDGE"
Rank A
Upon drawing GAY BULDGE any being that lies eyes upon it is immobilized permanently no matter the magical defense or Skill.
Once immobilized Aniki has 50% chance to instantly kill the opponent with GAY BULDGE thrust.
>>
>>115314199
Well since he is a hero for muslim, you need to use his tale from muslim's believe. Those terrorist is just retarded. As a muslim myself, I never heard of this 72 promised virgin. I'll look at the quran later.

I remember that he slice the moon just by divide the moon from his view with his hand and when he moved his hand, the moon is back to normal (fucking broken but useless NP) .

Muhammad is not that strong as a servant. He didn't do that many super power things. Since muslim know the tales of 25 prophet, muhammad probably the weakest in power. Maybe even avenger is stronger than him.
>>
>>115314195
His harass power is strong too. He can harass to seal excaliblast. Can probably do the same with cu or rider. But screwed vs herakles.
>>
>>115314217
> he eventually perfected and refined a prison of slashes that treads into the Second Magic without any knowledge of Magecraft or True Magic by doing nothing but spending his life swinging his sword following a single worthless idea on how to kill a swallow.
I don't know whenever to laugh at his stupidity or be amazed by his determination.
>>
>>115314279
She is similar to Arc, go replay Fate/Extra and read about Arc.
>>
>>115314398
Ciel gets smeared across the street.
>>
What's the point of citing "stats" in arguments anyway? They're all fucking relative anyway and don't mean shit in the actual story.
>>
>>115314286
>math
>on my nasuverse
top lel
math is useless on a universe with a demonbane expy
>>
>>115314486
Luck is the amount of plot armor hero has, so it's pretty important.
>>
>>115314481
She's weak. Get over it.
>>
>>115314461
Lancers are infinitely better at harassment due to the highest agi stats, and the class trait of battle continuation later decided by nasu. Add into the fact that disproportionate numbers of lancers also possess eye of the mind and incredibly lethal anti-person noble phantasms and you've got yourself *the* servant killer.
>>
>>115314382
S.E.C.S. pls go
>>
Archer, Lancer and Berserker are thrown into a cage-match. The cage is as large as the Einzburn Castle in it's entirety. Each of them are buffed with Command Seals to achieve victory.
>>
>>115314416
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Rider_(Fate/strange_fake)
>>
>>115314536
John Cena appears out of nowhere and wins but is then ambushed by My Cleitn Brock Lesner
>>
>>115314416
Ruler class
>>
>>115314486
Not true.

Zerk Lancelot over powered Arturia just because of his A+ Strength.

The only reason she won was because Kariya died.
>>
Why do his arms glow blue with lines now when he uses magic? He doesn't have a magic crest or anything.
>>
>>115314586
dolphin aids
>>
>>115314586
It's a visualization of his Magic Circuits. I think it's a holdover from the DEEN anime. I know they did it a lot in Unlimited Codes, too.
>>
>>115314578
Kariya died AFTER Berserker.
>>
Jeanne and Zero Caster vs. Shirou Kotomine and Assassin of Red.
>>
>>115314055
>No magic resistance
Caster GG
>>
>>115314416
Saviour.
>>
>>115314620
He died 10sec before lancelot run out of mana
>>
>>115313750
It's technically impossible because he's a vampire, not a heroic spirit. Also, his vampiric form is really weak because having a physical body is a great disadvantage. But if you can summon his phenomenon form, it would be quite scary since he's basically unstoppable.

Recent news about the ebola outbreak could wipe the town with ease.
Altria would do battle with TATARI Mordred or Lancelot.
Herakles would battle TATARI Hydra or reanact killing his family with Illya in their place.
Medusa would once again experience being an uncontrollable monster.
Lancer face a blast from the past with Caladbolg.
Archer would die protecting Illya from Berserker's hands.
>>
>>115309679

As the grail. I imagine him squatting with a dumb look on his face and his two hands above his head, wrist together and the hands forming a curve like a bowl's.
>>
I'm fucking trying to read the fucking VN but this fucking Shirou just makes me mad for every word that comes out of his fucking mouth. It doesn't help that his voice fucking irritates me. Why the fuck is the MC fucking stupid? FUCK. I can't count how many time I wanted to drop this stupid shit already because of this fucking stupid MC.

I'm currently at the middle of Fate route. Is this faggot gonna get better?
>>
>>115309638
You get a different servant, assuming your hero cannot be put into one of the classes.
>>
>>115314515
In the game she is indeed weak, but as a servant itself she is strong. Her magecraft s EX level. And she is a soul which is created from the goddess of sun, Amaterasu nerfed version. She could defeat most servant. Her magecraft is a lot stronger than Medea. But a versatile servant like Berserker and Gawain during the day could beat her. And maybe even Saber with proper tactics since magic resistance is a good skill but still can't completely block her magic, or just give her Avalon.
>>
>>115314737
Fate is the full-retard route for Shirou. UBW is the Shonen powerlevelling, and HF is completely different.
>>
>>115310504
>Achilles
dies in the Illiad
>Hector
dies in the Illiad
>Odysseus
doesnt die in the Illiand, gets his own epic all to himself, and makes it home to live with his waifu for the rest of his life

He is clearly the best of the three
>>
>>115314709
>It's technically impossible because he's a vampire, not a heroic spirit
they summoned arc didnt they
>>
Is Fate/HA mostly SoL shit or is there interesting story parts / fights?
>>
>>115314756
>Berserker
>Versatile
>>
>>115314796
It has both.
>>
>>115314794
Nope, her Master brought her into the Moon Cell and it basically said "Fuck it, that's your Servant now."
>>
>>115314586
Shirou's magic circuits are weird because instead of activating his circuits on and off like normal, he struggles though life and death to create new lines everytime he practices in the shed.
>>
>>115314782
HF is him being pretty cool for most of the route, and then living a really faggy life after it.
>>
BIBLE SERVANTS GO

>saber - Joshua, Gideon
>archer - David
>rider - Jehu
>lancer - Longinus
>caster - Moses, Ezekiel, Elijah, Solomon, Big J
>berserker - Samson
>assassin - Ehud
>>
>>115314854
Why do you have to do this in every thread?
>>
>>115314578
The only reasons she was getting her shit pushed in was because she out-emo'd him and was all "yes, please, you should kill me, because mah honor".
>>
>>115314868
Because 4chan is a Christian Imageboard
>>
Can the Grail summon Gods like Ra or Zeus too?
>>
>>115314854
>rider
>not Jonas
Do you hate fishes or something anon?
>>
>>115314895
No.
>>
>>115314895
Specifically excluded. Only "gods" it can summon had to be not gods at some point during which they were legendary. Hercules became a god after death, but was a demi-god in life so he could be summoned. Chiron surrendered his deific immortality, so he could get summoned.
>>
>>115314942
>>115314911
I think it'd be pretty interesting for a spin-off maybe.
>>
>>115314854

>Not listing Judas as an Assassin
>>
>>115314854
>Moses
>That anti-army Noble Phantasm

That'll be a 10 stage GO FUCK YOURSELF, especially if the Servant has divine ranks unaffiliated with Big G. And with all the Christians and Jews? Damn.
>>
>>115314854
NARUTO SERVANTS GO

>Saber - Mifune
>Archer - Tenten
>Rider - Kiba
>Rapper - Killer Bee
>Caster - Madara
>Berserker - Sakura
>Assassin - Shisui
>>
>>115312716
>Gilgamesh also fucking hates snakes.
I was talking about before how hilarious it'd be if Rider was also under his "Natural Enemy" because she is part Slytherin
>>
>>115314895
Divine servants need to be summoned under the savior class, which doesn't exist in the Fuyuki HGW.

Only Buddah has been summoned as savior, in Fate/Extra.
>>
>>115310406

I can imagine him being summoned as a servant going ハッピーうれピーよろピくねーーー.
>>
>>115315060
Joseph secondaries pls go and stay go.
>>
>>115314884
The moment lancelot stopped his sword she killed him.

She know she cannot win, what why she only defend. When whe was given opportunity she attacked him.
>>
>>115313411
Lancer, with the Spear of Destiny.
>>
>>115313361
to be fair the only aliens we see are balls to the wall crazy
I'm sure your average xeno scum dies when killed
>>
How long is HA compared to original game?
>>
>>115315101
ORT is not even the strongest one in mercury
>>
>>115315090

>Pointing out similar traits means you're a secondary!

Top kek.
>>
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>>115315156
Using Joseph as the usual le trickster character/le epic ruseman is though.

And the fact that you're so defensive about it is ulterior proof.
>>
>>115315222

>Laughing someone's comments off
>Defensive

Keep projecting.
>>
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>>115310720
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p9jSRxguAA
>>
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>>115315262
>Keep projecting.
You bet I will
>>
>>115315156
>Top kek.
>>>/s4s/
>>
>>115314199
>Can you summon Allah/Muhammed?

The anime studios are scared of doing anything with muslims after one studio got a bunch of death threats and promises of terrorism against sponsors when it was going to have an anime where some muslims were depicted negatively. Apparently, muslims can only be depicted doing good or great things. Anyways, that anime got cancelled after the threats. I wonder how much JoJo's author had to make sure the storyline made the non-muslim foreigners be the villains.
>>
>>115309638
You wait another 10 years for the next holy grail war.
>>
>>115315341

I will reply to shit with shit.
>>
>>115315292

What is his noble phantasm?
>>
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What if Caim was summoned as a Rider, and his dragon was his NP
>>
>>115315557

Then Nier becomes a reality.
>>
Why is there no good walkthrough for Sengoku Rance?
>>
>>115312158
I've got a dumb question; Harpe was made by Hephaustes or something, right? Wouldn't that have put it outside of Gil's collection reach if CCC's got any weight to it?
>>
>>115315360
How do you even propose summoning God, by the way?
>>
>>115315708
You use Jesus as the catalyst.
>>
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>you're the best mage around
>you want to summon saber
>the summoning goes perfectly
>this fucker comes out
What do?
>>
>>115315764

Commit sudoku.
>>
>>115310504
Ajax.

>Summonable as Lancer, Saber or Berserker
>fought the whole Trojan War without taking a single major wound
>1v1ed Hector
>Battle Continuation out the wazoo
>Charisma to lead armies
>tactical genius
>Rho Aias
>Teucer as an NP
Come stop me.
>>
>>115315764
>the summoning goes perfectly
If that's the result it went far from perfectly.
>>
>>115315548
>Outlawz 4 Lyfe
>A-ranked anti-unit NP
>Summons all his homies past and present with a bunch of AKs, ready to spray
>Erases target's magical resistances to nil.

>Hail Mary
>Turns all attacks against Tupac into a 50/50 coin toss gainst either the target or the attacker.
>>
>>115314055
call batman
>>
>>115315848
What class would he be?
>>
>>115315009
Holy shit! I just realized I can't recognize more than half of those characters
>>
>>115315866
Assassin.
>>
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"H-hey you, are you my master?! i hope you are not j-jewish."
>>
>>115315818
>>Outlawz 4 Lyfe

Basicaly Alexander's but instead of summoning/conjuring a vast desert with all his warriors, Tupac conjures the hood and summons his homies and all of the souls of dead gangbangers, all ready to do drive-by shooting?
>>
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Someone summons this guy as Archer. He has his entire arsenal from DMC4. What do?
>>
>>115315807
Ea GG
>>
>>115315951
>What do?

Reboot the franchise.
>>
>>115315951
Apply desiccated squirrel semen in abundance
>>
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>>115315969
It still hurts.
>>
>>115315951
>Not summoning him as Caster or Lancer
Way to be a fucktard and gimping your servant by weakening half their skillset, and giving them useless abilities like "independent action".
>>
>>115315951
>Fuck up the summoning
>Get Donte
>>
>>115316022
How would he count as a Caster or Lancer?
>>
>>115315764
>>115315817
>Implying his NP wouldn't be EX

power of friendship and the power of the heart or whatever could win the war easy

his plot armor is retarded
>>
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>>115315951
I summon Demi Fiend as Berserker.

Strength EX +++++++
>>
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>>115315969
>>115315992
>>115316026
I'm your servant you ugly sack of shit
>>
>>115316061
Yeah, it would be retarded broken tier.

"Power of Friendship"
Rank Bullshit
As long as master and servant are friends, the servant will overcome any odds to win for his master.
>>
>>115315951
>Vimana vs Pandora's Box
How badly would Gil get wrecked?
>>
>>115316097
FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!
>>
>>115316042
How not?
>Majority of his skills and weapons are magical in nature
>Electric bat summoning metal guitar Caster
Being a caster doesn't nerf his natural stats either, in case you thought he would be unable to use his sword or devil trigger.
>Main requirement of being a Lancer is excellent speed
>Grants insane class capabilities like battle continuation and disengage
But sure, lets give him the archer class, whose only benefit is lasting abit longer than usual when their Master dies. Because all the cool heroes are Archers too!
>>
>>115316061
I'd say Sora would be pretty broken even without that. He's probably as strong as a servant even before becoming one.
>>
>>115315764
Try and find a way to steal someone elses servant
>>
>>115316153
>Electric bat summoning metal guitar Caster
I said DMC4 arsenal fagget
>>
>>115316197
I still prefer an Elecrit bat summoning metal guitar Caster wrecking everyone in a grail war.
>>
>>115315807
Diomedes, He outwrestled you motherfucker.
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=62044316043

"He fights with fury and fills men's souls with panic. I hold him mightiest of them all; we did not fear even their great champion Achilles, son of an immortal though he be, as we do this man: his rage is beyond all bounds, and there is none can vie with him in prowess."

"While my Strength yet exists, not a single foe will escape me with life. The brave man makes an end of every foe."

"Seducer, a worthless coward like you can inflict but a light wound; when I wound a man though I but graze his skin it is another matter, for my weapon will lay him low. His wife will tear her cheeks for grief and his children will be fatherless: there will he rot, reddening the earth with his blood, and vultures, not women, will gather round him".
>>
>>115309679
Assassin most probably. Fate/extra assassin also had a one punch kill ability.
>>
>>115314854
>Fairy Tale Servants

>berserker - Big bad wolf / Giant
>saber - Jack the Giant Slayer
>archer - Robin Hood
>caster - Gingerbread Witch / Gambling Hans
>rider - Gingerbread man riding a pig/fox
>lancer -
>assassin - Big Bad Wolf
>>
>>115316022
Independent action allows servants to fight without as much direct influence from their masters (for really smart fighters this is a *VERY GOOD THING*) and it also makes them use a bit less mana, if you had for example EX rank independent action, you wouldn't necessarily listen to shit that your master said, but you'd also probably never use any of their mana either.

Dante is a good candidate for independent action, though Lancer is a much better class for him due to battle continuation and his love of long blades.
>>
>>115316286
I always wanted a Spear/Staff weapon in DMC4. I don't know why they never added one.
>>
>>115316305
There was sort of one in Sword of Sparda from DMC1.
>>
>>115316153
Battle continuation and eye of the mind are personal abilities. Lancers class ability is magic resistance (all knight classes have some level of magic resistance). However disproportionate amounts of lancers possess battle continuation and eye of the mind/disengage/instinct.

Dante would have battle continuation as a personal skill due to his 'divinity' (remember that first scene with alastor in DMC1? yeah, that's battle continuation).

Battle continuation essentially functions like a mix of being really fucking hard to kill and being really good at pursuing / disengaging from fights and in general being unaffected by wounds.
>>
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>>115315620
>>115315557
I just realized Zero would have a fair amount of compatibility with Sakura.
>>
>>115316284
>lancer
mulan
>>
>>115314113
Hitler was a solder in WW1
>>
So is there any reason that Gil had access to three separate phantasms on a land that was supposed to be completely foreign and unwelcoming to him?

Even Saber who would be far for famous than him only had her EXCALIBAA and lancer even had his runes with him.

The closer you are to your country of origin the more NPs you have access to, right?
>>
>>115316508
So we summon him as a Rider class on his message bike?
>>
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You summon the one and only Touman as a Caster. How do you win the Grail?
>>
>>115314113
Hitler won the Iron Cross as a soldier, based retardfag
>>
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>>115314203
>>
>>115313061
Lancelot's son, Galaad is DemonBane stronk.
>>
>>115316558
So he's a slightly above mundane soldier. You really want to toss him into a contest against some of the most legendary badasses to ever walk the face of the planet cause 'lol jews'? especially when you could instead have master tacticians or even better warriors?
>>
>>115316586
Who's the first guy that he summons?
>>
>>115316549
let his right arm touch the grail
>>
>>115316777
Holy Prophet Mopenisd
>>
>>115309780
while it's true that EMIYRA and Archer Heracle are both Ranger type, Archer is still defined by their preference to projectile attack.
>>
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>>115316549
Easy win.
>>
>>115313344
Heracles murdered his own family due to Hera's induced madness.
>>
>>115314205
if we go by Shakespeare's verison, Julius Caesar's death was entirely his own fault. He ignored plenty of warning.

nowadays historian think Caesar actually Martyr himself. He was slowly going senile and wanted to go out with a bang.
>>
>>115316549
Touman would be so good if he were the MC of Fate. Just think about it.
>One shots every servant
>can slap all the worms out of wormslut
>Can restore Ilya back to normal
>>
>>115318006
Ilya is a monstrous abomination created by magic, if he touched her she would probably die.
>>
>>115313061
Are we allowed to consider gods as well or just mortals?
>>
>>115315708
>>115315360
>How do you even propose summoning Allah, by the way?
There's all sorts of artifacts out there especially those at the main holy temple in Mecca. You'd have to fetch those.and test those for authenticity or assume that the massive amount of worshipping has managed to embue the claimed artifacts with some sort of authority. Better do it secretly or else the muslim citizens in your country will sabotage everything, break your infrasctructure, shoot out your major powerline insulators every night in order to force the gov't to search for you and turn you over for Sharia (islamic law) prosecution.
>>
>>115309638
Well, you can also summon Arthuria as Lancer if something.

Also IIRC, Cu Chulainn is the most versatile Heroic Spirit, because you can summon him as Lancer, Saber, Archer, Berserker and Caster.
>>
>>115319364
>Well, you can also summon Arthuria as Lancer if something.
Also Rider and Berserker.
>>
Will a Lancer ever win the Holy Grail?
>>
>>115314789
>>Achilles
>dies in the Illiad
no he doesn't
>>
>>115319695
What.
>>
>>115311678
Why don't they just make better containers for Archer and Lancer?
>>
>>115319364
No, that's Hercules. He fills saber, archer, lancer, rider and berserker.

Lu Bu also has a shit ton, with lancer, archer, rider, berserker and potentially assassin.

Cu only does lancer, caster and berserker.
>>
>>115315807
I wonder if Teucer would count as a noble phantasm I mean rider has his army as a noble phantasm so I don't see why a single lesser hero couldn't be one.
>>
>>115319780

you forgot about Assassin for Herc
>>
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>>115319780
>Cu only does lancer, caster and berserker
Wrong.
>>
>>115319780

also, Cu can fill out for Saber [with Fragarach as possible NP] and iirc, Archer was viable too
>>
>>115319752
Archer and Lancer are the other *good* containers. They're also designed to be rigged, with inherent magic resistance, high base stat totals, as well as fuckoff anti-person NP's for lancer and whacky shenanigan NP's for archer.

The 'bad' classes are Assassin, Rider, Caster and Berserker. Berserker was prettymuch outright designed to kill their masters. But again that's only because of the in-universe understanding. "Well saber has always made it to the final round, it must be the best" instead of "I know that I have a lot of magic capacity and if I summoned lu bu into the berserker class, I'd have the greatest warrior of china in a state where he'd be unlikely to betray me. I could then further augment his mana drain by getting him to kill people and watch him beat the snot out of other servants".
>>
>>115319364

No, you're thinking of Heracles, who can be summoned as all classes except Caster.
>>
>>115319887
I don't read moonrunes, that means nothing to me.
>>
>>115319904
>high base stat totals
Doesn't the Archer container have shit base stats.
>>
>>115319887

all in all, Herc's viability is greater, since Caster = worst class

and God Hand working for him regardless of what container he's summoned in, which is a winning advantage against most Servants [the 'average' NP is B ranked]
>>
>>115319938
Every class except Assassin is available for Cu.
Let's see:
Fragarach for Saber
Gay Bulge for Lancer
? for Archer
Chariot for Rider
Runes for Caster
Riastrad for Berserker
>>
>>115319950
It has okay stats. Assassin and Caster have the worst by far.

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Servant#Strength

Scroll down a little and you'll see what the 'base' is for servants of various classes
>>
>>115319731
>>115319695
The Illiad was only one part of the numerous number of Trojan Cycle. The Odyssey was like the other one, but we still haven't found all the rest. We only heard about them from other sources.
>>
>>115320008
Actually, double-checking that, berserkers have fuckawful base stats, but that's not accounting for mad enhancement.

>>115319997
Just because you use something doesn't mean you qualify for the class. In order to qualify for rider you need to both have a mount for a NP and have a riding skill of A rank or higher. Cu nor Arthur have A rank riding so they cannot be riders.

Cu wasn't known for sword fighting even though he had access to fragarach and he'd need higher magic resist to fill saber. He himself says he only qualifies for Lancer (gae bolg), Caster (runes) and Berserker (riastrad).
>>
>>115320090
Look at the fucking pic.
>>
Lets say you got Avalon and try to summon King Arthur via the grail.
Except Berserker, Saber, Lancer and Rider is filled.
Then what does the summoning system do? Well, then you start getting members of the round table. If they can't be summoned, then you randomly go down Arturian Legend, and then into people who randomly fell into Arturian Legend(i.E: Irish people).

>>115310343
Summoning can't fail in HGW. At worst, you get a wraith for a relic, and thats worst case scenario.
>>
What happens when two Fragaraches go against each other?
>>
>>115320167
The attacker loses. Its not rocket science.
>>
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>>115320155
>want Arthur
>get Morgana
>>
>>115319997
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Caster
Cu listed
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Lancer
Cu listed
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Saber
Cu not listed
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Archer
Cu not listed
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Rider
Cu not listed
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Berserker
Cu listed
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin
Cu not listed

>>115320151
The picture that doesn't say anything understandable?
>>
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>not summoning this stylish motherfucker
>>
>>115320209
But what if the counter-activation of Fragarach is itself the strongest attack.
Will they enter an endless recursion of time?
>>
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>>115320235
>typemoon.wikia.com
>>
>>115320242
Summoning Matrim Cauthon from wheel of time series as a Lancer.

Just wait till everyone realises just how fucked they are against a lancer with EX rank luck.
>>
I'm so tired of explaining Fate/stay night to secondaries on YouTube...

>"even if you say Zero spoils stay night, stay night spoils A LOT of Zero."
Holy fucking shit I just can't anymore.
>>
>>115320248
It would be a problem if Fragarach could be used as auto counter and attack at the same time.
But since it can only be used as either, and attacking is shit, whoever attacks loses.
>>
>>115320270
It's almost like wiki's try to source and reference as much shit as possible.

Even teachers gave that shit up a long time ago, for general use wiki's are fine, if you're writing a 500 page scientific document that's when you need to be doing some serious referencing.
>>
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>>115320215
>Want Artur
>Get some shitty assassin only feature in some obscure story
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>>115320235
>using type-moon wiki as an argumant
You funny kid.
>The picture that doesn't say anything understandable?
That's your problem, you know. Google "Fate/Ace Royal".
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>>115320167
Whatever the plot demands.
Fragarach is the single worst piece of writing in the whole Nasuverse.
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>>115319887
Blue = Saber
Red = Archer
Dark blue = Lancer
Purple = Rider
Brown = Berserker
Green = Caster
Grey = Assassin

Take Emiya for example, he can be summoned as Archer, Caster, Assassin and Berserker
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>>115320276
Doesn't the Lancer class have E rank luck by default?
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>>115320349
It can lose to Gae Bolg, if it's thrown
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>>115320356
No. That's minimum level for entry to class. Who the person is and was affects it a lot.
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You wouldn't download a sword
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>>115320356
No it's just that both Irish Lancers couldn't keep their dick in their pants or pissed off the Morrigan
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>>115320386
>That's minimum level for entry to class.
Fuck off with your headcanon. Default stats don't mean shit.
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>>115320338
Screaming "Look at the picture" and then not explaining your argument is really fucking dumb. If you're going to reference something in a discussion you'd better be prepared to explain it. That picture means absolutely fucking nothing to people who don't read Japanese, so until it's explained you may as well be going "WHREHGNAUSBHFB ASDNGFJS, HAH FUCKIN TOLD!"
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>>115320356
Irish people in the Nasuverse are just really unlucky, it's nothing to do with the class.
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What would be the catalyst to summon onii-sama?
>>
Who is the most powerful servant? Is it Gil or Iskander?
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>>115320443
Go be butthurt somewhere else.
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>>115320446
Radioactive ash from the ground zero of the Chinese genocide.
>>
ONE OF YOUR OPPONENTS SUMMONS ADOL IN HIS PRIME AS A SEIBA

WHAT DO
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>>115320456
Archercles
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>>115320456
>Iskander
>anywhere near the most powerful
It's Gil/Enkidu. Maybe some demigods from India or Egypt are also up there.
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>>115320376
It loses to melee Gae Bolg.
Also Lancer says that he could easily kill her witout using his NP.
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>>115314140
> He could even 1v1 Berserker

He didn't, he had support from Caster, including debuff on Berserker, and the sword (it wasn't a durable sword) reinforced with probably concussive force.

>Caster has two front-line Saber-class defenders, so if she uses her high sorcery then she'd be able to deal damage, but that would be limited to 2 to 3 times. Also, in the game, Assassin was able to push Berserker back because of the terrain advantage and support from Caster (weighing down Berserker's body). ...Well, since the compatibility of Assassin and Berserker is horrible, the fact that Berserker was even pushed back is enough to say "whoah, Kojirou's amazing".

And he have massive defensive advantage from Caster's territory and high ground.

>Nasu-san CHECK! If it's a straight out death match, then Archer will win. But Assassin is an oddity that fights under different battle conditions from the other Servants. While many Servants are offensive, Assassin is defensive. At a Servant-killing battlefield like Ryuudou Temple and with Caster's anti-sorcery defensive barrier, sorcery and Noble Phantasm power is decreased significantly. As a result, if it's not a powerful Noble Phantasm, then he won't take a fatal wound. Which means that the battle between the two is clearly swordsmanship. With Archer having his sniping sealed off to him due to the terrain effect, could Archer actually lose...?

His skill and the high ground keep the opponent from being able to dodge his fatal strikes as they wish. The strikes that aim for the head means that they must retreat instead of press forward, but the terrain of fighting on the stairs leaves them unable to dodge to the side. They are left retreating to the same spot, all the while he has no need to move from his position. And the opponent must also do longer swings or thrust to reach from lower ground to high ground, which makes his long-ass sword's reach even more advantageous.
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>>115320471
I'm going to debate this point with your logic.
>ausdb ahsndansdkmadnsasnddaisdnusadn

Lol fucking wrecked. I told you so hard you don't even know how to respond.
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>>115320515
Well using your NP is the catalyst for Fraga so that's a bit of a redundant arguement
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>>115320427
Container Parameters: Unmodified by the strengths and weaknesses of specific Heroic Spirits, the containers of the seven standard Servant classes of the Fuyuki Grail War possess known base parameters.[35] Heroic Spirits may be affected depending on which classes are suitable for them, and statistics may be lower than the base statistics.

In general you have to fill a considerable bit of requirements to enter certain class containers. It will always try to place you in your most suited container.
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>>115313895
>>115313895
>>115313895
>>115313895
Migrate.
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>>115320486
Summon Dogi with a wall as the catalyst, use him to convince Adol to join me.
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>>115315097
No, she was hardly even fighting back when she discovered Lancelot's identity. Before that she was able to maneuver in place to break his helmet even while Lancelot had dual machine gun fire.
Berserker/Lancelot would be overall stronger than Saber, but it wouldn't have been such a lopsided match if Saber's mind wasn't crushed.
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>>115320446
His gun.
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>>115320679
For the countless time, she was thrown into the air.

For the countless time, she was effortlessly beaten to the ground. Saber had given up counting, because she could no longer remember.

The strongest sword-wielding Servant? Who had fabricated this? —Now she was like a small boat in a storm. Facing Berserker’s waving black sword, she could only give up resistance and suffer the attack; she could not even make a single decent retaliatory blow
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>>115321113
Except the narrative was showing that she was hardly even trying to back.
----
Nothing remained of the beautiful visage that had once drawn the admiration of
many women. Yesterday’s hatred had made him as gaunt and pallid as a phantom;
only his eyes, filled with hatred, gave out light. That was the visage of a living dead
man who had lost everything to a curse.
“… Ah…”
Saber felt her knees weaken. The unyielding King of Knights forgot herself in
helplessness; as if unable to bear the weight of water droplets raining upon her
shoulders and back, she fell to her knees on the wet floor.
----
“… Do you really hate me so much, my friend…? Even if you have become as
such… Do you hate me so much, Knight of the Lake?!”
In that instant, the young girl who always maintained her glory to the very end, who
fought for honor to the very last—
That was the instant in which she was defeated.
-----
Even so, this silver swordsman who now knelt in the torrential rain was undoubtedly
that person whom 'he' had both loved and hated in the past.
That noble visage and that majestic and solemn face, which innumerable hopes and
blessings had been bestowed upon, was now kneeling in front of despair. Now the
king knew the truth that had been hidden for so long, knew the hatred that had been
buried in eternal darkness. The king forgot the pride of a monarch and mourned.
-----
Before Arondite’s relentless attack, Saber’s holy sword gave out a groan. Her sword
of light that promised victory—it had long since become meaningless, in the hands
of its owner who had lost the will to fight.
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>>115321343
At this point he had already completely unleashed his true ability, and his skill with the sword was completely incomparable with his previous level. Even if Saber had been uninjured right now, she might not have been able to withstand that strong momentum.

But in the face of her opponent’s ferocious attack, and the sense of pain in her hands and legs that had long since become numb, Saber remained unmoved. The enemy’s strong prowess that was many times greater than her own, and his merciless attack, were gradually causing her spirit to crumble.

She wouldn't have been able to beat him otherwise either
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>>115321571
>Even if Saber had been uninjured right now, she might not have been able to withstand that strong momentum.
it said 'she might not have been', and it was talking about the momentum, you know the force of the blow, thanks to the strength stat.

>But in the face of her opponent’s ferocious attack, and the sense of pain in her hands and legs that had long since become numb, Saber remained unmoved. The enemy’s strong prowess that was many times greater than her own, and his merciless attack, were gradually causing her spirit to crumble.
It still shows that Saber was hardly even trying to fight back.

see: >>115320679
I've already stated there that Berserker was overall stronger than Saber in terms of physical capabilities, but it doesn't mean it would be such a onesided match. Because Saber in prime condition (including mental) wouldn't just be standing in one place to take the hits, not to mention she would have the option to use the quick excaliblast that was said to be the fastest once it was activated in F/HA.

Again, overall in physical combat, Lancelot is more skilled than Saber, but it wouldn't be such a clear cut victory.



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