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So what did he say?
>>
>>115286046
Slam on.
>>
>>115286046
Trace on
>>
>>115286046
Taiga is best girl
>>
>>115286046
I'm the white man.
>>
>"i was shirou the whole time"
>>
>>115286046
Can you keep up with me?
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>>115286208
>>
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>>115286208
>>115286241
>forced to wait at least 6 months for BDs after movie is out
>>
>>115286046
>No one will ever believe you.
>>
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>>115286208
>>
TRESSU AWN
>>
Tuhleyzu

ohn
>>
>"Hot dogs".
>>
"Rin a shit"
>>
>>115286540
Why Illya Emiya looks better than Kuro Emiya?
>>
>>115286649
/thread
>>
TOHSAKA PLEASES OLD MEN
>>
Why didn't Archer just project the Holy Grail?
>>
>>115286046
"Trace on", which is the same thing Shirou says because Archer is Shirou from the future.
>>
>>115286969
Not from the future, a different time line.
>>
>>115287004
From a future different timeline.
>>
Why didn't Archer just project a googolplex of spiders to beat Shirou?
>>
>>115286046
Boku no Pico
>>
>>115286046
奴隷巣・オン
>>
>>115287004
I was just trying to get across the basic idea.
>>
>>115287165
Wait, what? How the fuck does that even work >>115286969
>>115287004
>>
>>115286046
So i know he's Shiroe and all that . Is the amnesia thing just straight up bullshit because he doesn't want to reveal his identity?
>>
>>115287243
Shirous goal was to become a Hero, he becomes a Hero of Justice in another timeline and is summoned by Rin because of her connection to Shirou because she has no catalyst for anyone else.
>>
>>115287032
Cant project his own weakness as Shirou already knows who he is at that point. They'd both just fail miserably and be covered with spiders.
>>
>>115287405
I thought the catalyst was the pendant.
>>
>>115287352
His memories were actually a bit jumbled, but he greatly exaggerated how bad it was.
>>
>>115287352
He really had amnesia, he remembered who he was when he saw Shirou while Rin was dragging him along for site seeing.
>>
I came to fuck me
>>
>>115287492
Which is also why him asking Rin her intentions is important.
>>
Daily reminder that Luvia is a disgusting fat whore.
>>
>>115286046
"Mayonegg."
>>
>>115286046
i'm the wretched egg
>>
>>115286869
Read the manga, it's not Illya. So it's Chloe.
>>
>>115286046
I AM CUM
>>
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This fight was absolutely genius, and I feel bad for the people that haven't taken the time to analyze it for full enjoyment.
First off, Lancer is obviously stronger than Archer, and a 1v1 close-range fight would have Archer get demolished. So why did Archer actually fight Lancer? More importantly, why did Archer agree to take Lancers Noble Phantasm, which is an insta-kill, head on? The reason is that Archer remembers who he is by this point. When Rin asks him if he was the Saber-class servant, Archer responds with, "Sorry to disappoint you, but I have no swords." In his fight versus Lancer, he summons a new sword every time his last one is broken. The only way this is possible is if he remembered his identity. This means that he also remembers the fact that he, himself, has already lived through this war as a human. He knows for a fact that Lancer's Gae Bolg won't hit him because he knows what happens already. He knows that Shirou's presence stops Lancer, and he knows that Lancer stabs Shirou. He also knows that Rin leaves her pendant with Shirou because he gives her "the pendant" back without actually visiting Shirou's unconscious body himself. Basically, what Archer meant when he said to Lancer, "go ahead, you're an enemy I have to face eventually anyway," was, "You're gonna use that Noble Phantasm? Yeah, whatever you say, man." It shows how level-headed Archer is, and how he knows that he didn't have to care at all about the fight because he knew the ending already. He was just going through the motions the entire time.
>>
>>115287004
Doesn't Shirou have a chance to become Emiya after every route? I believe UBW was the highest though
>>
>>115287405

Doesn't that mean every single person in the nasuverse could be summoned as a servant then? If there is an infinite number of other timelines that would mean there might even be a world where Shinji was a hero instead of a cunt.
>>
>>115287929
I'm sure it could work, but that wouldn't be interesting.
>>
>>115287864
I'm quite sure even EMIYA doesnt know Gae Bolg is 1 shot one kill. He figured out his identity because his speed and agility as a spearman are a dead giveaway.

>>115287899
I heard some bullshit about the one in Fate/Extra being the protag from UBW. Though I havent touched Fate/Extra as of yet.
>>
>>115287864
Stop sperging.
>>
>>115286046
My body is made of blades/Trace on/I am the bone of my sword
>>
>>115287864
No, the alternate time line did not have Shirou participating in the grail war.
>>
>>115287899
Logically speaking, it's all up to what Archer decides to do. His actions are the only thing that change the events in Shirou's timeline. Logically. In actuality, Nasu probably has some other bullshit explanation.

>>115288095
>No, the alternate time line did not have Shirou participating in the grail war.
He had to have because he had the pendant.
>>
>>115287450
And the pendant was used on Shirou. See?
>>
It honestly just looks like he just mouths "Trace". I know that in universe he says Trace On but in that moment where they show him saying something, it just looks like he says "Trace".
>>
>>115287899
Wasn't UBW the LOWEST?
>>
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>>115286046
Gate of Babylon.
>>
>>115288158
He says two words, re watch the scene.
>>
>>115288210
From highest to lowest.
Mind of steel
Fate
UBW true
UBW good
HF true
HF normal (which is kind of obvious)
>>
>>115288210
My speculation is that Fate Shirou is the one that becomes Archer. He gets over his bullshit in HF, and in UBW I find it hard to believe that he would become Archer after going through all that shit with Archer. It would also make sense since you have to do Fate before you do UBW.
>>
>>115288158
>>115288256
Like that even matters in anime.
>>
>>115286046
420 blaze it
>>
>>115286046
ekusu

carriba
>>
>>115288210
[v] Fate/complete material III: World material - FAQ with Nasu: General Questions about Fate, p.130-131
Q: Could Sakura’s route be the one in which Shirou becomes a Heroic Spirit after all?
Q: During the last part of Sakura’s route, Shirou was saved by the tiny bit of residual mana in Rin Tohsaka’s pendant. Also, it seems like Rin knew about the difference in residual mana between the thing he got back from Archer and the thing he was holding, so could Sakura’s route be the one in which Shirou becomes a Heroic Spirit after all? Or could you tell us the route(s) in which Shirou doesn’t become a Heroic Spirit?


A: I’ll just say now that he doesn’t become a Heroic Spirit in any of the routes, but the possibility is still present in all of them as well. Basically, the probability of it happening is almost zero.
>>
>>115286339
Actually, given current industry trends, maybe they'll simulcast it with Crunchyroll and we'll get it right away.
>>
>>115288319
Actually, Fate too is a stretch because End of the Dream. Unless that's after.
>>
>>115288339
1v1 me m8, i'll bloody rek u fagget, im from FaZe.
>>
>>115287410
I'd like to see that happen
>>
>>115286046
MOU IKKAI
>>
>>115288256

I did and it still honestly looks like he just says Trace. I'm watching his lips mouth "To-rei-su"
>>
>>115288466
fuck you
>>
>>115287004
Actually, as of that point in the story, he's still Shirou from the future. He's only Shirou from an alternate timeline after the routes start to diverge later that night.
>>
OMG I JUST GOT IT
ARCHER WAS TRYING TO 360 NOSCOPE LANCER.
>>
>>115288466
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKM_CdzIxZw
>>
>>115288307
Mind of Steel is shit and your list is shit.
>>
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>>115286241
>That whole fucking scene.

HF OVA's can't come fast enough.
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>>115288710
That's not a list of his opinions of the endings, it's the probability of Shirou becoming Archer.
>>
Why does Archer think killing Shirou would cause a paradox and remove him from the Counter Force? This Shirou is obviously one of the infinite Shirous from the infinite other universes. Killing him wouldn't affect Archer at all. It wouldn't make any kind of paradox. Is Archer an idiot?

I suppose he IS Shirou.
>>
>>115288748
Shirou killing Berserker with Archer's arm is in HF?
>>
>>115288688
I do't remember why this song was put into an infinite loop...
>>
>>115286046
I know they included this shit for the secondaries, but it still bugs me. I liked it better that Archer doesn't actually use the Trace On incantation until he kills Caster, and when he does, it's specifically to fuck with Shirou whom he knows is listening.
>>
>>115288772
Mind of Steel has zero chance of him becoming Archer. Archer strived to be a true hero, but MoS Shirou gave up on that entirely to become a utilitarian like Kiritsugu.
>>
>>115288827
He admits he knows that this has almost 0% of working, but if he has to chose between living in hell and trying to escape, he's taking his chances.
>>
>>115288870
My fucking god you're stupid, MoS is where shirou has sacrifised all he had to be a superhero. This is what archer'd do. This is what Kiritsugu'd do.
>>
>>115288870
>implying Archer stuck to the ideals he gave Shirou shit for having
>>
I finally understand this line
>I have created over a thousand blandes
It's because the only blade that's actually his, those pair of black-and-whites, are fucking plastic and break easily. He was a shit blacksmith in life.
>>
>>115289009
Archer and Kiritsugu are VASTLY different in their approaches. Kerry was NOT, in any sense of the word, a superhero.
>>
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>>115288836
The entirety of Nine Bullet Revolver yeah.
>That music.
>That frantic Ilya.
>Shirou psyching himself up to remove the shroud.
>Nine Lives Bladeworks
>"He will never turn around and look back again."
>>
What is this supposed to say? I can't think of anything that would fit with "ess" besides "heiress", but that's too large to fit behind !Sakura's ass.
>>
>>115289010
He did.

Then he died with a smile on his face.

Then he became a Counter Guardian.

THEN he became a bitter, jaded jackass.

Chris, all the secondaries in this thread.
>>
>>115289084
Please stop anon, I only just masturbated
>>
>>115289123
>Then he died with a smile on his face.
That's because he was summoned before his death and got to get over his shit in the past before he actually died. So, chronologically from his PoV, he died with a smile on his face last.
>>
>mfw Illya route never
>confirmation of Archer's path never
>>
>>115289084
I'm so fucking gar for shirou it's incredible
>>
>>115287929
Infinite universes doesnt mean infinite possibilities, in the real world or FSN. Theres no universe where kotomine survives the fifth war.
>>
>>115289090
Dress, maybe?
>>
>>115287899
Isn't there a Shirou becoming Archer in Prisma Illya?
>>
>>115289191
>That's because he was summoned before his death

No he didn't. Archer was CLEARLY aware of what his job as a Counter Guardian made him do.

Read the fucking VN you goddamn secondary.
>>
>>115289069
They're not different at all, and you've missed the entire point. Archer and Kiritsugu were both crushed under the weight of their ideal and instead turned to the more practical version of utilitarianism. Archer is Shirou who has faced the same mental battle as Kiritsugu and made the same choice: to save as many people as possible all the time as a "hero," and understanding that you can't always save everyone. Shirou rejects that idea and sticks to the idea of saving everyone even if that means sacrificing himself.
>>
>>115289276
>Archer was CLEARLY aware of what his job as a Counter Guardian made him do.
Saber was clearly aware of how she died even though, from her PoV, she was summoned before her death. Maybe YOU should read the VN instead of trying so hard to fit in.
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>>115289010
He stuck with them all the way through to his death and died with a smile on his face, even though he was betrayed by those he saved.

He only abandoned his ideals after he became a CG and realized that their job wasn't to save people, but to massacre them.
>>
>>115289235
He's "becoming Archer" in the sense that he has access to UBW, is a goddamn BEAST at making swords, and is burning out his body to the point of the tan and the white hair. But in terms of his ideals, he's close to HF Shirou, and his situation is NOTHING like Archer's.
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>>115289277
No you completely misunderstood the route and difference between Shirou and Kiritsugu in general.
>>
>>115289318
Saber knew how she died because that's what she was in the middle of doing before she was summoned. She had already fought Mordred, was mortally wounded, and had already been carried by Percival to the tree. The only things left for her to do after she came back from the 5th war were have Percival return the sword to the lake, and die. And she already knew she had to do that.

Meanwhile, Archer died thinking he could still save people as a Counter Guardian, which was part of the reason he was smiling.
>>
>>115289318
No YOU should Saber doesn't die you idiot. Properly read the damn VN.

I'm not even that guy but your completely wrong
>>
>>115289123
>>115289329
Forgot about that
>>
I'm having a hard time understanding what the Throne of Heroes is. I get that only clones of the heroes are sent to a war, except fucking Snowflake Saber, but what about the actual Heroes? Is the Throne a legit afterlife or is it just their data being kept by some magic?
>>
"Tohsaka Rin pleases old men for money."
>>
>>115289492
>Saber doesn't die you idiot
How can you be so ignorant to both Fate/Stay and King Arthur's Legend at the same time?
>>
>>115289483
Saber never actually dies, it's why she's not part of the throne of heroes. The contract with the world suspends her life, and she generally either goes to Avalon is still doing t
>>
>>115289505
Archer, at least, has something resembling an afterlife, even if it is just basically a library of all of the times he was summoned. Non-Counter Guardian Heroic Spirit, we have no clue.

For normal people, the closest you have to an afterlife is your soul reuniting with the Root until it's processed for reincarnation.
>>
>>115289551
>Then I put the mayonnaise onto the egg
>Mayonegg
>>
Alaya wants contract you as a Counter Guardian.

Do you take the job offer?
>>
>>115289329
Emiya D Shirou...

Sorry couldn't resist.
>>
>>115289084
You do realize that he just asked to post a spoiler, right?
>>
>>115286046
He said "Face off." This is most likely a reference to the classic Nicolas Cage and John Travolta smash hit Face/Off. In turn, this is likely indicative of Archer's plan to murder Shirou and take his place in this timeline. The Shirou from this timeline will then be summoned as Assassin by Zouken because Zouken doesn't really give a fuck about the rules and fake Assassin is a bitch. Assassin Shirou will then have to take his rightful place back from Archer.

Anime original route confirmed.
>>
Why hasn't anyone summoned Odysseus yet?
>>
>>115288319
Nasu says every Shirou has a chance close to zero to become archer
>>
>>115289551
She doesn't die, she's still alive, how can you be this idgnorant you fool, read the damn story.
>>
>>115289641
It depends, do Counter-Guardians even have free will outside of their job hours? Their entire existence isn't very well explained.

I probably would either way, it's either die or pretty-much-die.
>>
>>115289551
She's not dead. She made a contract with the world just before she died for a chance to rewrite history so that she was never king of England. As a result Gaia transports her to the HGW because it's a means of obtaining that goal. Every time she fails, she returns to the point just before she's about to die and makes the same contract again.

She's the only servant that isn't in the Throne of Heroes or a CG. It's also why she can't go into spirit mode: she is the actual flesh and blood King Arthur while every other servant is just a copy materialized via the Third Magic.
>>
>>115289702
>Every time she fails, she returns to the point just before she's about to die and makes the same contract again.
She doesn't make it after HF, I watched DEEN.
>>
>>115289702
But, after Fate for sure if not the other two routes, she gives up on seeking the Grail and voids the contract with the World. And in doing so, she gets to die and go to Avalon.
>>
>>115289650
>Spoiler
The VN has been out & translated for close to 8 years now. It's not a goddamn spoiler. If you didn't know this yet stop being such a filthy secondary and read the damn VN.
>>
>>115289699
You live in the Counter Guardian Hotel, where you have an infinite library with all your adventures so you can read about them. You can relax in the beach while a copy of yourself massacres and kills thousands to save millions.
>>
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>>115289809
>A hotel with a library of your life and a beach
Bullshit.
>>
>>115286046
"I'm Shirou btw. Also I fucked your sister. And Saber. And Rider. And you for that matter."
>>
Why are there so many NP in GoB?

Gilgamesh was alive for lets say.. 100 years. Is it because he was the "First King" (debatable) and therefore everything after is his? That doesn't make any sense.
>>
>>115289892
He has the original weapons, not the ones from the legends.
Also anything humanity has, he has the original version, plues from the ages he was he has magical artifacts from ancient aliens which surpass in every way whatever humanity has produced.
>>
>>115289220
No, that is because Kotomine's behavior means he would always be making enemies that will bite him in the ass. AND should his goal be accomplished, he will immediately die thanks to Angra Mainyu being born to at least destroy the country.
>>
>>115289892
Everything of any value at all was at some point his. Even before it had value, it was his. He owned the world, therefore he owned everything in the world, therefore he owned everything. Even before it had value it was his, because he owned everything. Even if it didn't exist yet it was his, because the materials it was made of were his. It's like an autistic kid scream "THAT'S MINE!" and the universe saying "Sure, why the fuck not?"
>>
>>115289682
How broken would he be?
>>
>>115289641
What the hell does she expect me to do? Shitpost people to death? Masturbate furtively in the corner?
>>
Angry Manjew being born means the Counter Forces comes to nuke Japan, right?
>>
>>115289892
The Epic of Gilgamesh is the earliest recorded legend, which makes Gilgamesh the earliest Hero. All legends originate from Gilgamesh, and as a result he has the original weapons that all NP's were based on.

Granted I think there are still exceptions. Like he doesn't have Excalibur or anything resembling a prototype because it's an original work given to humans by faeries, IIRC.
>>
>>115288870
But Kiritsugu doesn't believe in utilitarianism, he just practice a form of it because it was the only realistic way for him he knows of to get anywhere.When he realized how such methods won't change the world, he chased for the Holy Grail to try to create such world without need for such sacrifice.

------------
Even Kotomine knew that:
"You do not need to understand. Emiya Kiritsugu desired peace. Isn't it simple? But it was too simple for this complex world. He had to reject the extra parts that could not fit into that perfect shape."
"But he could not tolerate that.
He sought a perfect shape, but still wanted to save the extra parts.
…But that is a miracle exceeding human power.
There is no such thing as a world without conflict. He sought the Holy Grail to deny that fact."
--------------

But when he found out the grail was corrupted and limited and malicious it is, he rejected it.
Kiritsugu doesn't even think he's a good person, he thinks he's immoral due to his methods. and one of the reasons he said he doesn't deserve to hold Illya when she was born.
>>
>>115289948
That's basically after the fact Nasu wankery. I the VN Shirou mentions Gil having over a 1000 NP.
>>
>>115290087
But gilgamesh didn't own the world.

Another butchered lore from nasu.
>>
>>115289892
>Why are there so many NP in GoB?
Plot.
>>115290087
>It's like an autistic kid scream "THAT'S MINE!" and the universe saying "Sure, why the fuck not?"
This guy has the right of it.

Gilgamesh is a spoiled little twat. The fact that Gilfags exist is absolutely disgusting.
>>
>>115290087
>He owned the world, therefore he owned everything in the world, therefore he owned everything.
Actually, in his legend he has a physical treasury with everything in it. Stuff like Excalibur that wasn't in the world, nor it's materials in the world, don't belong to him. Everything else does.
>>
>>115288003
The archer in fate/extra is just F/SN's archer. It's not UBW shirou.
>>
>>115290123
Probably, but KnK shows us that the Counter Force has a setting below "Send in the Counter Guardians." The Counter Force was in effect since the first war to prevent access to the Root, but especially since Zero to ensure that Angra Mainyu is not released. All of the events on Shirou and co's side are a result of subtle Counter Force manipulations.
>>
>>115289892
Gilgamesh basically owns all the best of human invention, past and future. He will have to manually incorporate divine treasures into his treasury though.
----
Collector [EX]
The ability to acquire items of higher quality. It's the good luck of frequently obtaining even rare items, but because it only applies to Gilgamesh himself, it does not bless the Master.
Gilgamesh is a collector of treasure. "I collected all the treasures of the earth," is Gilgamesh's favorite phrase, but that is not a metaphor. He collected and stored away a sample of all the technology that was developed during his age and sealed them.
That which Gilgamesh stored, rather than being treasure, is "the origin of the intelligence of mankind" itself. If it does not exist in Gilgamesh's treasury, then it is "something produced by a new breed of humanity, according a completely new concept," "something made from the technology of the culture born from the intelligent life from another heavenly body," one of the two.
For that reason, of course he has airplanes and submarines. The desires of the people from before Christ are not different, and it would not do for the crafts of ancient times when magic was in good health to be inferior to the crafts of the modern age. People generally realize the "tools of hope" that they dream of, and each time that occurs, it ended with them being confiscated by the king's hand.
The offensive skill Gilgamesh uses, "Gate of Babylon," shoots the treasure he collected like this like arrows. The gate to the golden capital opens, and his treasures are shot out from his treasure cellar.
This is a digression, but after the Noble Phantasms that are shot out are used, regardless of how far it has gone, it turns to Gilgamesh's treasure cellar. "Hah. I possess a Noble Phantasm which excels at the task of retrieval," says the person himself.
>>
>>115290114
The most broken.
>>
>>115290123
Yes, isn't that great?
>>
>>115290199
>The fact that Gilfags exist is absolutely disgusting.
Supreme over other kings, lordly in appearance,
he is the hero, born of Uruk, the goring wild bull.
He walks out in front, the leader,
and walks at the rear, trusted by his companions.
Mighty net, protector of his people,
raging flood-wave who destroys even walls of stone!
Offspring of Lugalbanda, Gilgamesh is strong to perfection,
son of the august cow, Rimat-Ninsun;... Gilgamesh is awesome to perfection.
It was he who opened the mountain passes,
who dug wells on the flank of the mountain.
It was he who crossed the ocean, the vast seas, to the rising sun,
who explored the world regions, seeking life.
It was he who reached by his own sheer strength Utanapishtim, the Faraway,
who restored the sanctuaries (or: cities) that the Flood had destroyed!
... for teeming mankind.
Who can compare with him in kingliness?
Who can say like Gilgamesh: "I am King!"?
Whose name, from the day of his birth, was called "Gilgamesh"?
Two-thirds of him is god, one-third of him is human.
The Great Goddess Aruru designed the model for his body,
she prepared his form ...
... beautiful, handsomest of men,
... perfect
>>
>>115290248
Not as broken as Gil though.
>>
>>115290266
>>115290199
>The fact that Gilfags exist is absolutely disgusting.
He who has seen everything, I will make known to the lands.
I will teach about him who experienced all things,
... alike,
Anu granted him the totality of knowledge of all.
He saw the Secret, discovered the Hidden,
he brought information of (the time) before the Flood.
He went on a distant journey, pushing himself to exhaustion,
but then was brought to peace.
He carved on a stone stela all of his toils,
and built the wall of Uruk-Haven,
the wall of the sacred Eanna Temple, the holy sanctuary.
Look at its wall which gleams like copper,
inspect its inner wall, the likes of which no one can equal!
Take hold of the threshold stone--it dates from ancient times!
Go close to the Eanna Temple, the residence of Ishtar,
such as no later king or man ever equaled!
Go up on the wall of Uruk and walk around,
examine its foundation, inspect its brickwork thoroughly.
Is not the brick structure made of kiln-fired brick,
and did not the Seven Sages themselves lay out its plans?
One league city, one league palm gardens, one league lowlands, the open area of the Ishtar Temple,
three leagues and the open area of Uruk it the wall encloses.
Find the copper tablet box,
open the ... of its lock of bronze,
undo the fastening of its secret opening.
Take and read out from the lapis lazuli tablet
how Gilgamesh went through every hardship.
>>
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>>115286869
Because Ilya Emiya is the white man
>>
>>115289699
Reincarnation is pretty much established in nasuverse except for the souls who reach heroic spirit status and are removed from the loop. Kind of like nirvana but for being a badass. Presumably the throne is a much better employer than Alaya.

>>115290261
Archie is probably coming right back with the mana to nuke manjew from orbit if the summoning is complete. Too bad we never got something like that written for a bad end.
>>
>>115289682
Why hasn't anyone summoned Jesus yet?
>>
>>115290288
He'll be more broken than Gil.
>>
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>>115286241
>can you keep up with me?
>its not "can you keep up with me."
>YOU KEEP UP WITH ME!
>>
>>115290374
Because you aren't allowed to summon Jesus.
>>
>>115290374
What class would Jesus even be? Caster?
>>
>>115290374
Because Jesus is an incarnation of God and he wouldn't fit in any of the Fuyuki grail class.
>>
>>115290288
Gilgamesh is dumb as hell. I'd back the guy whose defining feature is his cleverness over a retarded manchild with a really big gun.
>>
How come Shirou was able to express his origin naturally while Kirei had to have his ribs ground up? And are origins usually this powerful for magi?
>>
>>115290429
Rider.

His noble phantasm would be to summon Buddha
>>
>>115290455
Kerry is actually a pretty normal guy. Shirou is a walking sword that thinks it's a person.
>>
>>115290424
>>115290444
What about John the Baptist?
>>
>>115290455
You mean Kerry, not Kirei.

After the fire made Shirou a blank slate, he became particularly good at expressing his origin. Ryougi Shiki is pretty similar in that sense, but instead of a Reality Marble she got Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.
>>
>>115290455
Because not only is Shrou's origin "sword", his element is to. He is the same as a sword in a metaphysical sense: the universe literally cannot distinguish him from a sword. That's why his origin is so heavily expressed and why he can use UBW's forging process on his own body.
>>
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Quick, who would you summon and under what class? The other servants are the same as F/SN's. Gilgamesh is also roaming around.
>>
>>115290452
Gilgamesh is plenty smart when he's invested in the conflict.

>>115290592
Caster, he'd be a crazy prophet, with no combat ability. Peter, at least, could be a saber, albeit a low-tier one.

Maybe if you could summon Jesus as Avenger, he'd be good.
>>
Kariya has the appropriate magic circuits to become a Magus, right? Would he has been better than Tokiomi? You know, with the support and training by Matou?
>>
>>115286046
"Your favourite anime is shit."
>>
>>115290653
I would summon another gilgamesh, as saber, so he wouldn't have that pesky independent action.

And I don't want anyone telling me that one of the greatest monster-slayers of myth is a bad melee fighter.
>>
>>115290703
No probably not.
Matou magecraft is still weakening because they moved to Fuyuki
>>
>>115290653
Santa claus as Rider. We've been over this.
>>
JIBUN WOOO
>>
>>115290653
Seiba
>>
>>115290376
Not on the Nasuverse, Nasu has a big boner for Gil for some reason.
>>
>>115289329
Wait why are the using a noose in the future...
>>
>>115290653
I summon Enkidu as Berserker. I don't even use Mad Enhancement, I've already won.
>>
>>115290903
>yfw mad max
alternatively because he fights in wars in the undeveloped parts of the world and is betrayed there (?).
>>
>>115286046
"So, this is Grail Energy, huh? Not bad...
>>
>>115290653
I would try my darnedest to summon a Skinwalker as Caster or Berserker.
FRIGHTFUL LEGEND INVOKED!
>>
>>115288095
He went through a grail war, he still remembers the time when saber was summoned, and he refers to that scene as the most beautiful thing he had ever seen.
>>
>>115288307
Mind of steel shirou isn't archer
Mind of steel shirou is kiritsugu

They aren't the same
>>
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>>115290928
>I don't even use Mad Enhancement, I've already won.
I find it funny how you actually would win even without the Enhancement. Enkidu kicks Gilgamesh's ass and sticks his dick in it on multiple occasions in Gilgamesh's own legend.
>>
>>115290877
People are big on headcanon in these threads.
>>
>>115290455
Kerry felt responsible for the deaths of a whole village because he spared someone precious.
Shirou was in the middle of something similar to a nuclear explosion and miraculously survived while everything and everyone he knew got burned away without being capable of doing anything.

Their situations are similar but they're motivated by different things and Shirou's case is more extreme (although Kerry was already an extreme case).
>>
>>115291045
No he doesn't. Gilgamesh actually wrestles Enkidu into the ground and has him concede in the original Epic.
>>
>>115290653
Rider Hannibal
>>
>>115291045
He'd get fucked over by Gilgamesh in some fashion, doubly so if he summoned his best friend as a mad dog.
>>
>>115291144
Liar, the lines describing the actual fight are missing.

---
Enkidu blocked the entry to the marital chamber,
and would not allow Gilgamreh to be brought in.
They grappled with each other at the entry to the marital chamber,
in the street they attacked each other, the public square of the land.
The doorposts trembled and the wall shook,

[About 42 lines are missing from the Standard Version; lines 103-129 are taken from
the Old Babylonian version.]

Gilgamesh bent his knees, with his other foot on the ground,
his anger abated and he turned his chest away.
After he turned his chest Enkidu said to Gilgamesh:
"Your mother bore you ever unique(!),
the Wild Cow of the Enclosure, Ninsun,
your head is elevated over (other) men,
Enlil has destined for you the kingship over the people."
[19 lines are missing here.]

They kissed each other and became friends.
---

Later though it's constantly described that Enkidu will protect Gilgamesh on their journey, implying that Enkidu us stronger but Gilgamesh is the one that has to do the job because he's king. Gilgamesh's ass also belongs to Enkidu during the evenings.
>>
>>115291045
>Enkidu kicks Gilgamesh's ass and sticks his dick in it on multiple occasions in Gilgamesh's own legend.

That doesn't happen at all. Try reading the Epic of Gilgamesh some time. You can find it for free online.
>>
>>115291383
>They kissed each other and became friends.
Gaaaaaaaaaaay.
>>
>>115291383
I like how you cut off at the part that hails Gilgamesh as the mightiest in the land.

Nothing ever implies he is weaker than Enkidu, even if you want to grasp for a draw.
>>
Anyone feel that Fate/Stay Night is basically the definition of wasted potential? The concept it brings to the table is pretty damn interesting, and the potential provided by it is basically limitless. With an idea like "7 people, and 7 legends from across time battle for the right to a miracle", you could write so many different stories that are drastically different from one another.

The problem is that Fate/Stay Night itself falls flat when it uses the concept.

>7 experienced magi all fighting for a miracle? just kidding, most of them are teenagers or don't even have a wish
>7 legendary heroes with their own regrets/unfilled dreams? just kidding, most of them aren't properly developed and their identities are mostly pointlessly (herc, cu, medusa).
>also one isn't even a hero from the past he's a future version of the MC

If it weren't for Fate/HA for properly developing certain Servants (Cu, Medusa, Medea) and Masters (Kuzuki, Bazett), Fate/CCC+FateZero for making Gil an interesting character, and Fate/Zero for actually showing a battle between Magi/the ideological conflict that arises when legendary heroes interact with each other, Fate/Stay Night would have just been an incredible amount of wasted potential.

Don't get me wrong, I love Fate/Stay Night and think it's the best installment of the Fate part of the Nasuverse, but I still can admit it showed some wasted potential. The entire thing was less about "7 groups fight for the right to a miracle" and more about "a boy who wanted to be a hero of justice", and while there is nothing inherently wrong with that, if it weren't for the later installments of the series F/SN would have been really disappointing. It all honestly F/SN feels more like it should have been an installment in an already established franchise, not the original story that kicks the franchise off.
>>
>>115291484
>That doesn't happen at all
>>115291640
>I like how you cut off at the part that hails Gilgamesh as the mightiest in the land.
I like how you said that I didn't put it in and then you didn't paste it yourself.
>>
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>>115289084
I love how all of F/SN human vs servant fights are just about breaking Power Levels.
>>
>>115291646
F/SN on it's own is only okay. It's when you add the rest of the Nasuverse to it (Tsukihime, Meltyblood, Fate Zero, etc) that it becomes amazing.

But that's because Nasu does world building better than storytelling. F/SN is a story - everything else is the world.
>>
>>115291646
It's pretty clear based on side materials that it wasn't the original intention, but the Grail War became a means to examine Shirou's character, and I honestly think FSN is better for that. Compare it to Prototype, which basically would have been Japanese Twilight, with a possibly less terrible female lead.
>>
>>115291041
It's actually pretty fascinating because Kerry is written to be someone who basically skipped to the end of EMIYA's path (CG) similarly getting a heavy dosage of reality and broken ideals putting him on the path of emotionless justice. In the end this path betrays him as well when he finds out teh say-hi is actually manjew and all the inhuman acts of choosing the lesser evil in the name of justice that he'd done so far were pointless. It's an impossible burden for a human to carry and function to begin with. After rescuing Shirou Kerry in turn sparks Shirou's emotional ideal and hope to be able to save everyone, at the cost of himself if need be.

This all depicts the cycle of the dualistic nature of man, between logic and emotion or between realism and idealism, the schism in philosophy going back as far as Aristotle and Plato.
>>
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>>115291646
>just kidding, most of them are teenagers or don't even have a wish

Plenty of magi want the grail purely for the sake of having it.

Its a miracle, a product of japanese competitiveness, and plain wizard logic.
>>
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Gilgamesh is fucked if he fights Enkidu. People wonder how Lancer lasted 12 hours against him? Enkidu fought for several days with E rank luck and it still turned into a draw.
After the fight, Gilgamesh speculates how fucked he would be if Enkidu was actually summoned as Berserker.
>>
>>115291195
While he would be better as a tactician, he was fairly talented in combat.
>>
>>115290653
Jesus Christ, as Berserker for shits and giggles.
>>
>>115291484
Yeah, the most popular iteration of the Epic found online has Gilgamesh kicking Enkidu's ass. If we're to assume Nasuverse rules, that legend would be more influential.

But this is retarded because the Nasuverse has its own version, and they were equals when they clashes.
>>
>>115291932
>He forced Gilgamesh to empty the vault.
Holy fuck
>>
>>115286046
why do you watch this again?
It's already been made once
>>
>>115290653
Louise
As caster

Void magic, I get a nice Run that lets me use any weapons at their top level

Also dat mana transfer
>>
>>115286046
I'm so fucked
>>
>>115291900
Heck, now that I think of it maybe it's even closer to the concepts of Order and Chaos.
>>
>>115291932
How can he fight if he turns himself into a spear or axe?
>>
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>>115291932
>he forced Gilgamesh to empty the vault.
>>
>>115292018
Pretty sure the vault is more limited at the time while his alive. The 'world' is pretty much smaller at the time.
>>
>>115291932
>After the fight, Gilgamesh speculates how fucked he would be if Enkidu was actually summoned as Berserker.

No, that never happens. Stop spreading bullshit around. The only time Gilgamesh ever alludes to that is in SF, and it's inconsistent with Nasu's Epic.
>>
>>115292018
His vault wasn't complete yet. Still fucking impressive, but if it had been, he would have run out of clay sooner.
>>
>>115292209
Anon, that's during a grail war. Enkidu was summoned as Lancer.
>>
>>115291932
EA
GG
LOL
>>
>>115292209
TBF Shirou managed to outright counter the vault, through unlimited blades, his only real issue was Ea I wonder how Enkidu dealt with that
>>
>>115292296
No, it is during his time alive. Fate/Strange Fake isn't even completed, it was an intro.

it is described in Fate/Extra CCC
http://tsukinoura.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/entry-111-someone-elses-dream/
>>
>>115291902
Well, they usually have a reason behind wanting to win, even if they don't have an actual wish. Kayneth wanted to make himself look better and Tokiomi wanted to reach the root. In Fate/Stay Night's everyone's reason for fighting is basically "well i have to because that's what i got to do". The only people with interesting reasons are Shirou (which really has nothing to do with the Grail War in the first place, Shinji (who is portrayed as a pathetic bad guy, making it hard for anyone to even give a fuck), and Kirei.
>>
>>115292342
Fate/Strange Fake isn't even a proper source of information, because its depiction of Enkidu's part in the legend is different from CCC's.
>>
Late as fuck but: What's up with HorribleSubs' 1v2?
>>
>>115292342
Now apply Lancer stats to Enkidu and give him a NP to use. Fuck that other anon's Berserker stuff, ME would make Enkidu win too easily, even Lancelot rekt Gil's gate.
>>
>>115292438
>even Lancelot rekt Gil's gate.

Here we go again with that nonsense.
>>
>>115292438
>NP
He has a roar that makes the entire world have an earthquake and it destroys physics. I'm not sure if GoB would be affected or not.
>>
>>115292342
It pretty much implied Gilgamesh was just manually throwing his treasure instead of being able to just shoot it as a Heroic spirit/Servant.

>Was it surprise or anger he felt, encountering his equal for the first time. In the midst of battle, he took his prized treasures in hand. I don’t think there was anything more disgrace for him than having to draw out the treasure he held so dear. At first he did it out of necessity, because he was cornered. But by the end he was throwing all the treasure he possessed into the fray, joyfully, holding nothing back.

>The battle — in whose victory did it end? He had emptied his whole treasury, and I had lost ninety percent of my clay. I must have looked thin and ragged, my shape held together only by my clothes. He opened his eyes and burst into laughter, then collapsed to the ground face-up. I fell to the earth to, and breathed deeply. Honestly, I couldn’t have moved more than once.
>>
>>115292340
The only reason Shirou won is because Gil was patronizing and had his mind corrupted afer 4th war.

Serious Gilgamesh (which never happens aside respect kill for Zero Rider) would be unstoppable as there is no bypassing EA spam.
>>
>>115292413
https://www.diffchecker.com/pefdiljl
>>
>>115292413
When entire phrases are missing I guess that happens.
>>
Faldeus thinks that if Enkidu was summoned as Berserker with Mad Enhancement then this power would reach the level of a God. Faldeus has authority on the subject.
>>
>>115292512
What he has in Strange Fake won't necessarily carry over to what he'll have in something Nasu is actively involved in. We already know it is inconsistent with CCC.
>>
>>115292551
>Serious Gilgamesh (which never happens aside respect kill for Zero Rider)

That's STILL not even a serious Gil. But truly serious Gil happens in CCC, and he still won't use Ea until his enemy is under 30% health or so, I think.
>>
>"Kay-ON!"
>>
>>115289090
Edelfelt Dress? Pic related
>>
>>115292490

Even Lancelot was clearly stated that he wouldn't be able to do that once Gilgamesh opens more of GoB. And that is not even the max.

>The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore.
>>
>>115292551
>>115292619
Gil also gets serious for the final moment of the Fate route, but it's too late at that point.
>>
>>115292438
>even Lancelot rekt Gil's gate.
No he didn't, 16 shots is hardly wrecking his gate

>Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore.
>>
>>115292598
>Consistency
It's not inconsistent, there are several ways that it works, including that it was a dream and not a flashback, or that Gilgamesh didn't remember it completely correctly since knowledge is restricted to perspective. "Inconsistencies" like this happen throughout the Nasuverse and none of them are actually inconsistencies and are just a result of people not wanting to think.
>>
>>115291646
>/the ideological conflict that arises when legendary heroes interact with each other

>Gilgamesh- I am an entitled little twat. Worship me.
>Iskander- The duty of the king is to be a flamboyant peacock and die while waging a never-ending war of conquest.
>Arturia- I want to not leave my kingdom rekt.
Such conflict. Much ideology.
>>
>>115292693
>>115292738
>narrative
>being objective
It's an unknown based upon the assumptions of everyone watching.
>>
>>115292718
Hardly serious, more him realizing he was fucked.
>>
>>115292619
But doesn't serious Gilgamesh happens in F/HA against the neverending number of corpse shade? (although the kid-Gil personality might have played a factor). He had to actually use the anti-world aspect of Ea to stop all the corpse shade of Avenger from infinitely respawning.
>>
>>115292512
>He has a roar that makes the entire world have an earthquake and it destroys physics.
That's just a skill, it's not even his NP.
>>
>>115292785

I mean just before that, when he decided to go all in with max power Enuma Elish.
Which was the exact wrong thing to do against Avalon.
>>
>>115292682
So is there a plot reason why Shirou is in this yet Sakura and Taiga aren't?
>>
>>115292551
Aside from you know Avalon.
>>
>>115292779
No, there are clear physical limitations, as seen the crane wing technique against Saber alter. Lancelot doesn't have omnipresent limbs.
>>
>>115292794
Maybe, but Enuma Elish in CCC is a lot more impressive than Enuma Elish in HA.
>>
>>115292742
You can make up whatever you want to support it, yes. However, it still does not match Nasu's version of the Epic, and for all intents and purposes can very well be overwritten in the next SF.
>>
>>115292757
Even if it isn't anything deep, it is still interesting to see heroes from across time give their own perspective on things. The Grail Dialogue was one of the best parts of Zero just for that.

In F/SN you have almost none of that. None of the Servants really give a fuck about who they are facing, resulting in certain identities being completely irrelevant.
>>
>>115292579
>>115292594
>If you don't summon yours soon, you're gonna die, mister.
>Still not Onii-chan

At least punctuation seems fixed, with an extra dose of American idioms added
>>
>>115292392
Rin fights for her family and like her father to reach the root and to finish the task set by Zelretch.

Illya doesn't really have a wish of her own because she is the fucking grail's vessel, but she still wants to find out what happened during and after the last war in regards to Kerry.

Kuzuki (not counting Caster's original master) is the one who really doesn't have a reason to fight in the grail war except protecting Caster.

Caster, being the master of Fake Assassin certainly doesn't lack a reason to seek the grail, to gain the ability to live together with Kuzuki or to alter her damnable past. If you want to forego Fake Assassin for True then it's even easier, Zouken has pursued immortality through the grail since the creation of the grail ritual and has sacrificed much in the process.

The difference if you ask me is not so much in the masters lacking reasons to be in the grail war (except Kuzuki) as it is the narrative giving the "enemy" so much less room than Zero does. Rin I'll also give you is just an uninteresting character from beginning to end.
>>
>>115292827
Taiga is in it. She's Illya's teacher. And Sakura shows up very briefly in an extra chapter of the manga.
>>
>>115288852
A reason is needed? That's just how the Internet works.
>>
>>115292816
We don't even know anything about his skills and possible NPs, if he even gets one. That was only Narita, anyway.
>>
>>115292868
CCC/Unlimited Codes Gil shows pretty clear kill combo.

Simply straps you with Enkidu and then unleashes EA directly in front of you.
>>
>>115290366

God. That looks bad.
>>
>>115292870

Theoretically it all depends on the weapons he grabs, especially if they have any special attributes towards defending. The mystery of Gate of Babylon can easily backfire.
>>
>>115292911
Pretty sure Saber and Archer have an ideological conflict where Archer basically bitchslaps Saber with common sense.
>>
>>115292827
He doesn't like Sakura?
>>
>>115292966

Enkidu won't significantly hinder a hero without divinity.
>>
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>>115292966
>>
>>115292966
Enkidu doesn't work on none divine beings, Saber isn't divine.
>>
>>115293038
It's not like Gilgamesh loses anything by strewing it all over the place.
>>
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>>115293009
Yeah, but just about anyone can slap Saber with some common sense, she's not that bright but it's why we love her
>>
>>115292551
gill was doomed the moment he let shirou summon ubw.
After that he virtually had no more chances to draw ea out.
the only way Gill has to kill shirou or emiya is to use ea right away without giving them time to finish the ubw chant
>>
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So if Shirou has a Nine Lives Bullet Revolver
Does Archaa have a 6 Lives...Colt Single Action Army?
>>
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>>115293062
>>
>>115293077
It DOES, it's just a fairly strong chain.
>>
>>115293091
Still doesn't prevent Avalon counter however. Since once activated Gil can't stop it so he's vulnerable.
>>
>>115292966
>>115293062
Berserker broke out of Enkidu despite his high ass divinity in UBW.
>>
>>115293038
It is still NP tier chain.

Enough time to blast anyone away.
>>
>>115293107
Except for how Shirou himself knew he was screwed, even in UBW, if Gilgamesh was anything short of retarded.
>>
>>115292914
Will UTW keep the fucking Onii-chan or will they go full retard?
>>
>>115293129

Heracles is basically the highest strength hero we've ever seen. Only contention is Passionlip.
>>
>>115293126
Against heroic spirits a fairly strong chain is worthless. There's a reason why the only spirit he use outside of part god is completely depleted human.

It's largely worthless otherwise.
>>
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Alright guys this is really important!!!

Did Archer fucked Rin for that mana or money? And is that some sort of NTR to Shirou?
>>
>>115292392
>who is portrayed as a pathetic bad guy, making it hard for anyone to even give a fuck
He's a cowardly rapist. He is a pathetic bad guy.
>>
>>115293118
Nine Lives attack rank depends on the rank of the weapon, and the Axe sword is not a high ranking weapon.

Blackened Berserker lost his skin, and thus the protective armor component of God Hand, thus making him vulnerable to Nine Lives

Also Nine Lives doesn't mean it actually takes nine lives, it refers to the original number of heads the hydra had. And given Shirou's number of nonvital targeting areas and the fact that Berserker was continuously moving forward without interruption during Nine live and swinging the axe sword, we don't actually know how many lives it actually took.
>>
>>115292551
>The only reason Shirou won is because Gil was patronizing and had his mind corrupted afer 4th war.
Gil was unchanged by the Grail mud. He's just dumb. Deal with it, Gilfag.
>>
>>115291505
>Your mother bore you ever unique(!),
>They kissed each other and became friends.
My god, it's the yaoi of ancient times.
>>
>>115293143
That's because Shirou had a time limit and gil did not. While in UBW he was invinceable against gil outside of Ea, but he needed to kill Gil within that time period, which is why he couldn't afford to let up.
>>
>>115286046
When do you expect most secondaries to catch on first? Trace on would be too big of a clue.
>>
>>115293143
I only remember him saying that ubw could only be this effective against gill and that he would be screwed if he let him draw out and use ea again. then something more about shirou admitting he was at his limit and that he would not have been able to drag out the fight any longer had the holy grail not interrupted it
>>
>>115293315
I don't see how that invalidates anything. It's a shortcoming of using UBW; it's not going to last forever.
>>
>>115293298

He wasn't corrupted by the mud, but by being a human in the modern era.
>>
>>115293143
gill himself is forced to admit that shirou's ubw is superior to his gob
>>
>>115293341
Funnily Gil letting up the assault to draw Ea may have been the only way for Shirou to win by beating him on the draw. Anyone's guess whether Gil could have somehow drawn faster if he was "more serious"
>>
>>115292911
Kirei and Gil was interesting, even if the cliff notes were
>brah, do what you like
>but I like making people suffer
>brah, time to get your torture on
Gil, Arturia, and Iskander talking was just stupid.
>>
SERIOUS GIL
GG
LOL
>>
>>115293394
He never phrases it like that. What Shirou does say, however, is that he'll lose if Gilgamesh regains his composure.
>>
>>115293341
Both Gil and Shirou have a Z ranking in close quarters swordfighting, so that was pretty much the only way Shirou could win.
Pulling a thousand swords from his ass and hope he lands a hit.
>>
>>115293341
No, he said that he would lose if Gilgamesh regains his composure or stance, he have B rank strength after all.
>>
>>115293212
Why would Archer fuck Rin? He has no money and Rin is a proper master so he gets mana just fine.
>>
>>115293298
Supposedly more intelligent than Emiya, says Nasu. He's just too prideful and careless.
>>
>>115286949
Gil said he has grails and wishgranting items in the GOB, but I don't know how accurate he was.
>>
>>115293448
But Gil does say that Shirou is stronger than him while in UBW
>>
>>115293406
>yfw Kirei is Zyzz
>yfw Kirei just wants angry manjew to make it
>yfw his heart ;_;
>>
>>115293489
Delicious brown and rugged body.
>>
>>115293456
>hope he lands a hit.
Shit, that's the same way Shirou describes Saber vs. Berserker in Fate.

hero/10 sasuga Nasu
>>
>>115293364
Holy hell, what the fuck are you babbling about?
>>
>>115293548
Yes, but why would Aacha willfully touch an old hag like Rin who pleasures old men for gems?
>>
>>115293575
He's right.
>>
>>115293448
Yes he does. gil says that. Shirou says the composure line because like previously stated Shirou is running on a time limit whereas gil is not.
>>
>>115293599
It's no big deal. Archer pleasures old men for mana, so he's pretty much the same as her.
>>
>>115293456
Shirou great at close quarters. Being able to copy the original owners of weapons stats and techniques will do that.
>>
>>115293457
Shirou can trace up to A rank trace. b rank strength is nothing.
>>
>>115293665
But he himself says that he will lose against every Servant but Gil in close quarter
inb4 NLBW asspull
>>
>>115293696
*strength
>>
>>115288827
Maybe he knows he'll exist probably but he wants to stop this NEW Shirou from going through something similar.
>>
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>>115293213
>mfw

Shinji isn't even that bad of a guy.
>>
>>115293665
>Against a normal opponent this is little more than a mildly annoying ability, but it is the natural enemy of a certain King of Heroes.
>>
>>115293575
Fate/Extra CCC, Gil SG 1
>If I were, for example, to become incarnated, my blood as a human would stir and my nature would gravitate towards that of the humans of that era
>>
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>>115293547
>mfw I understand tfw you can't bring yourself to love someone you've lived with for years
>>
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>>115293696
That was only with archer's arm. and even then his body can't keep up with everything.
>>
>>115293769
Go to bed, Shinji.
>>
>>115293722
Shirou underestimates himself a lot. The fact Archer is a near top tier servant means he's putting himself short.
>>
this has gotta be the worst anime season of all time. another fate rehash, woop-dee-doo, get on the imaginary hype train of japanese jews
>>
>>115293618
So? Running out of time is a downside to UBW. You can't disregard it.
>>
>>115293788

It's a little annoying, until he gets the entire fucking gate of babylon added to his armory.
>>
>>115293788
Again he kills Berserker with Nine lives, he doesn't fully understand his ability, it's fact it's far greater than an annoying ability.
>>
>>115293843
And even then, it'll still be ''mildly annoying.''
>>
>>115293872
That is straight from the side material description of UBW.
>>
>>115286943
For money?
>>
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>>115293798
No that's in general, he does it in Fate without Archer's arm.
>>
>>115293872
No, it's just annoying. That's the sad truth of UBW.
>>
>>115293892

No. Context, man. That's referring to the ability as it's held by Shirou, before any of the routes occur.
Being able to create your weakness on a whim is not mildly annoying at all.
>>
>>115293899
Again we know for a fact it isn't so why do you keep quoting this.
>>
>>115293944
>>115293899
>kills Herakles 6 times
>kills Artoria any number of times unless she gets a command spell
>"mildly annoying!"
>>
>>115289892
Yes, that's exactly it.
He owned all the treasure in the world during his life (this could be inflated information due to him becoming legend), and GoB really just boils down to splitting hairs on the definition of treasure.
Humans during Gilgamesh's reign had ideas in their heads about flying machines, therefore GoB possesses flying machines, such as the thing he summons during the Caster/Cthulu fight in Fate/Zero.
It's pretty bullshit and near endless the amount of things he can summon through GoB.
>>
>>115290653
Zhang Fei as Berserker.
>>
>>115293899
You haven't refute anything without blatant evidence proving you wrong. being able to Bypass god hand is not a mildly annoying ability not remotely. That can kill a servant.
>>
>>115287929
But anon, Shinji is the blue man from the future.
>>
>>115293925
No he didn't, and besides not all swords have rank A strength wielders and he was tracing primarily Kanshou and Bakuya against Gilgamesh.

----------------------
>"Kuh…!"
>My legs won't move. All my muscles must have stopped working.
>I can't stand up.
>I made the sword that surpasses Berserker.
But that's all.
>As I am only a maker, I cannot handle the sword!
>>
>>115294001
Kills Berserker 9 times also.

Such a mild ability
>>
>>115293959
There is no context. It's just an entry from the side material concerning UBW.

It can't be referring to Shirou exclusively, because it makes a passing mention of Archer and his usage of it.
>>
>>115292827
Sakura shows up for two pages, and in those two pages the author confirmed she's still a Matou, which means she's likely still wormed.

lol
>>
>>115294092
>>115293872

see: >>115293267
>>
>>115294132
Here's the complete text for "context"

Infinite Creation of Swords [Noble Phantasm, Magecraft]
Unlimited Blade Works
Though it is treated as a Noble Phantasm, technically speaking it is a type of sorcery called a reality marble.
Within this reality marble exists all the ingredients needed for the creation of swords. So long as Archer has seen the original, he is able to easily replicate it.
However, the replicated weapon has its rank reduced by one.
Replication of defensive armaments is also possible, but it requires two to three times more magical energy than a normal projection.
Once an armament has been replicated, it is registered inside the boundary field and can be manufactured with projection sorcery even without expanding the reality marble.
Against a normal opponent this is little more than a mildly annoying ability, but it is the natural enemy of a certain King of Heroes.
>>
>>115293722
that's probably because his body can't put up with the weapons he projects for too long. his only way to defeat a close range servant is to end the fight very quickly using the special ability of the projected np or to keep some distance by raining down nps on him/her. according to the 12 hrs fight beween gill and lancer, the latter is not a viable option for shirou
>>
>>115294090
Post the entire quote you fool he states the sword moves buy itself. I wonder why you missed that out.

Also did you even read his fight against Gilgamesh like seriously? Your completely wrong, he counter Gilgamesh with the exact same weapon Gilgamesh was wield, and they would tend to be high ranked weapons.
>>
>>115293125
What?
>>
>>115293789
Ah, so it's a product of Nasu's endless revisionism.
>>
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>>115287625
>>
>>115293267
Doesn't it take as many lives as neccesary to kill in one blow/instant?
>>
>>115294162
So why didn't Archer project Gae Bolg and use that ability?
>>
>>115293125
How does his sword even work?
>>
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ITT: Anime soundtracks that give you chills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3d_k_21QPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHRBFTWSguY
>>
>>115294161
It's the exact same ability as GoB you realise with more weapons and lower rank. Using this you could also call GoB a midly annoying ability outside of things like Ea.
>>
>>115294263
The mana needed would turn Rin into an ethiopian child.
>>
>>115294294
Who the fuck knows what Nasu is thinking but according to him it's only mildly annoying against nearly everyone but Gil
>>
>>115294294
The scope of bullshit found in GoB by far exceeds UBW. It's also more energy efficient, doesn't need an incantation to deploy in full, and suffers no rank down. They aren't identical abilities at all.
>>
>>115294345
Gae Bolg is the most mana efficient NP in the war.
>>
>>115294345
No. He's capable of projecting weapons with an even higher mystic rank at low mana cost.

>>115294263
There's no question that he could project the weapon, but why would he be able to use the ability?
>>
>>115294355
And nasu is inconsistent as fuck, either way you can use your common sense. It's uses and strength is obvious. That quote doesn't even contradict that.
>>
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>>115294345
You completly missed the point of Gae Bolg?
>>
Is archer the strongest servant ever?
>>
>>115294437
>but why would he be able to use the ability?
Because tracing Berserker's sword enabled Shirou to use Nine Lives so why wouldn't it work for Gae Bolg?
>>
>>115294496
From the 4th war? Sure.
>>
>>115291646
I totally agree with you.
The problem lies in Nasu being great at world building and general plot points, but entirely lacks the ability to write well or plan forward.
>>
>>115294263
There's numerous abilities and scenarios Archer could have done but the didn't do. Call it jobbing call it consistencies, call it the fact that Archer never gave a shit about actually winning the war.
>>
>>115288095
Uhm, no.
>>
>>115294496
Nope not even close.
>>
>>115294165
The sword moves by itself, but nothing stated about the strength
And against Berserker's strength, his arm was getting torn off.

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2078/

And Caliburn was apparently stated by Nasu that the sword temporarily powered up due to the miracle of being reunited across the ages with its original owner.
>>
>>115294509
Shirou/EMIYA has equal aptitude for every kind of magic, ability, NP, charm, and curse?
No.
>>
>>115294509
It would work, but it likely the same reason why he doesn't use nine lives or sit on tall building and snipe everyone else.
>>
>>115294586
>And Caliburn was apparently stated by Nasu that the sword temporarily powered up due to the miracle of being reunited across the ages with its original owner.
HAHAHA fucking Nasu he does whatever possible to nerf Shirou.
>>
>>115294586
>And Caliburn was apparently stated by Nasu that the sword temporarily powered up due to the miracle of being reunited across the ages with its original owner.
So it was PLOT?
>>
>>115294496
Strength is irrelevant anyways because everyone behaves like an absolute idiot when the plot needs a fight to end.
>>
>>115294624
How else but with PLOT do you explain how Caliburn killed Berserker 6 times?
>>
>>115294586
So its an asspull, especially concern the projection penalty cost, and the fact that it was stated to be more of an ornamental sword and thus weaker than Excalibur.
>>
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>>115290994
pic related
>>
Why Shirou is shocked when Archer reveals to him that the only reason he wanted to be a seigi no mikata is because he is empty inside? He already confessed that to Rin in the Einzenbern castle.

>"I remember. Those eyes that looked down at me and the voice pleading for me to live.
At that time, I thought not about the fact that I was saved, but the fact that someone's there to save me… The fact itself is…"

>It's so wonderful, and it's such a miraculous thing.
>That's why I admired it.
>I had nothing, and there was nothing remaining in me, I admired the first thing that came into my sight.
>That's the only thing I had.
>That's the only emotion I felt after I was saved.
>I was happy.
>I cried.
>That's all I could think about.
>So that's all the emotion I could create
>>
>>115294670
Seven. They killed him more times than he had lives left.
Somehow.
>>
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>>115294586
He bypassed godhand you tard it needed a rank strength. Also this. Can't se why you can't accept your wrong.
>>
Why is FSN so popular? Why is it Nasu's most prolific work? It's the worst thing hes written. It has a lot of fan wankery and shit writing. His other works are miles ahead in writing and drama department but they aren't as popular.. FSN is just a darker battle shounen. Tsukihime and Knk are gothic horror. Mahoyo has better written characters and the fluff and story flow better. Hell Fate Zero is better written than FSN and its because its written by someone else
>>
>>115294670
I never thought about it, thanks man now it's going to bother me maybe it has a DoT effect? I don't know.
>>
>>115294738
Berserker was a rotting corpse trying to protect Ilya.
>>
>>115294738
No, strength only increases weapon damage, it does nothing for attack rank, since they are ranked by the level of mystery.

see: >>115293267
>>
>>115294263
in ubw he never has a chance to freely showcase his projection skills because:
- when he's under rin he's carefully concealing his abilities in order to not arouse suspicion
- when he's finally free to go after shirou he's already short of mana and has no desire to kill other servants

in hf he holds back against rider and then he gets fucked by the shadow before he can even show his true potential

in fate.. duh I don't remember what was up with him but berserker was a bad matchup and i think he was still wounded from the initial exchange with saber
>>
>>115294745
>author has fan wank
You idiot.
>>
>>115294769
Is Saber like the only servant the blackening actualy worked on?
Berserker is still trying to protect Ilya while Cu and Gil simply got devoured
>>
>>115294769
That doesn't mean anything it clearly states he FUCKING COPIED BERSERKERS STRENGTH.
>>
>>115294745
Nasu's Gilgamesh is the highest fan wankery bait, that's why.
>>
>>115294810
Why didn't he just project Enkidu?
>>
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>>115286046
Dunno, let's ask just ask Gendo.
>>
>>115294843
>Highest fan wankery bait

That's not ORT
>>
>>115294808
A rank Strength is mentioned as a bypass for godhand. we've had this argument serval times it always ends the same.
>>
>>115294838
To use the sword.
>>
>>115290374
The best Old Testament servant would be Beserker Cain just try and prove me wrong
>>
>>115294808
Calburn is also B rank without Saber helping to wield it so it is fact he had A rank strength whch is obvious because the VN freaking states this.
>>
>>115294916
>famous for killing a farmer
He's not remembered for being strong. Sampson would be strong.
>>
>>115294874
ORT is in Mercury doing crystal meth, nobody cares.
>>
>>115294808

>Q: Lancer, Caster, Assassin, and True Assassins; all with normal attack and Noble Phantasms of B or lower. If they fought against Berserker, wouldn't it be a one-sided fight? Or are there any of them that can match up against him?

The fact that they specifically mention "normal attack ranking" implies that sufficient strength would do the job.
>>
>>115294974
He's in south africa doing crystal meth
>>
>>115294908
So your admitting I'm right and your wrong. Great at least that's done with.
>>
>>115294813
Loyalty my ass
>>
>>115294813
No, he was still mad and blind, he just temporarily regains his sanity when he sees Illya. Apparently due to the strength of his heart.

---------
Fate/side material - Encyclopedia: Berserker [Servant], p.069
..........
After being Blackened in the Sakura Route, Berserker was able to halt the last strike of his Axe Sword before he died. He was able to do so due to the strength of his heart; a heart which suffered the pain of berserking since his early days as a hero.
In the story of Fate, Berserker is the most manly character.
-------------

Also Saber Alter wasn't even completely against Shirou.
She was even angry that Shirou was letting her live in the Femme Fatale ending.

>"Shirou. I have cursed you for the first time."
>I can understand Saber's hatred.
>"You are telling me to kill you."
>It's natural that she's disappointed.
>>
>>115290429
Saver
>>
>>115295001
Wait, south america. Not africa
>>
>>115295009
What the fuck am I wrong about? That's Shirou's and EMIYA's ability, they even get information about the object they project.
>>
Name a Caster who actually could be summoned as a Heroic Spirit in an uncorrupted grail.
>>
>>115294916
Wouldn't Cain just be Avenger, except his curse would actually be much, much worse?
>>
>>115295043
Wouldn't it be coke, then?
>>
>>115294966
He's old as fuck, famous as fuck, the first murderer, and the first Berserker. He'd be Gil-tier busted.
>>
>>115295067

William Shakespeare, a true hero if there ever was one.
>>
Wow guys, is this VN good or not? I keep seeing people say PLAY THE VN, but then I come in here and everyone is talking about how it sucks and it's wasted potential and Nasu is just fan pandering etc. For something that is 60+ hours I don't want to waste my time
>>
>>115294496
if we exclude np bullshit then most classes are surprisingly balanced
>>
>>115289063
Actually he saw those blades at a temple and copied them. He did not invent them
>>
>>115294745
>darker battle shounen with waifus

Your answered your own question.
>>
>>115295053
This whole argument was about some idiot who honestly thought Shirou didn't trace the stats of original wielders of the weapons he traced. If you were not that anon, then my apologies..
>>
I'm playing HF and I finished the Shirou vs Berserker fight half an hour ago.
How do I stop my meat from expanding any more?
>>
>>115295098
He has a reality marble like effect that turns everything into crystal meth
>>
>>115295122
Even with its wasted potential it's still worth reading as fuck.
>>
>>115295149
You can't.

You're entering what happens to be the best Climax of all 3 routes.
>>
>>115294960
see: >>115294586

>>115294887
No, it is not the case at all,, strength only increases damage.

>>115294985

Non of it was about damage for Assassin and Kuzuki. it was stated that Caster was doing all the damage with her magic.

>Caster has two front-line Saber-class defenders, so if she uses her high sorcery then she'd be able to deal damage, but that would be limited to 2 to 3 times. Also, in the game, Assassin was able to push Berserker back because of the terrain advantage and support from Caster (weighing down Berserker's body). ...Well, since the compatibility of Assassin and Berserker is horrible, the fact that Berserker was even pushed back is enough to say "whoah, Kojirou's amazing".

Since it is talking about pushing back, Caster must be talking about buffing Assassin's blade with concussive force.
>>
>>115295122
Neh the VN is great it's just that Nasu tends to make random ass statements long after the VN's finished that contradict the VN.

Fate route is crap though skip that route if you can.
>>
>>115295149
You don't.
>>
>>115295067
Solomon.

Rasputin and Tesla are (probably) too modern, but they'd be incredible.
>>
>>115295113
That's not how it works at all.

Gilgamesh was 2/3 divine (sumerians believe that both fathers contribute to the child's creation) have have super powers even in the original legends.

Gilgamesh was stated to been the first to collect every treasure in the world, which was translated into a conceptual aspect of GoB.
>>
>>115295183
Your quote doesn't contradict his, it's a stated fact in the VN that a rank strength in itself bypasses Godhand. Saber tells you this if you ask for further information about berserker.
>>
>>115295067

Tiresias
Circe
Vainamoinen
Myrddin Wyllt
>>
>>115295142

no only Archer's arm did that. His body can't trace the stats as seen in the picture here:

>>115293798
>>
>>115288003
I thought that he/they immediately knew what a bladed weapon is and does after seeing it.
>>
>>115295067
Moses, he'd be utter bullshit.
>>
>>115294586
How many lives would Excalibur take then? All 12?
>>
>>115295285
Then post the screenshot.
>>
>>115295223

>Rasputin or Tesla being incredible

No. You don't know anything about Fate if you think charlatans can play on the mythological stage.
>>
>>115294985
What was the A to that Q?

>>115295067
Solomon, Cu, Theophrastus Bombastus.

>>115295113
Gilgamesh is older.

>>115295142
My understanding was the thing with Herk is a special deal. For reasons.
Like how he couldn't use Caliburn and how he wouldn't be able to use Ea even if he was handed the original.
>>
>>115286046
Not kalafina again
>>
>>115294745
Fate series has more room for expansion; just look at all the spin-offs. You could keep popping up grail wars forever.

>Tsukihime and Knk are gothic horror.
And horror is a more niche genre than action.

>Mahoyo has better written characters and the fluff and story flow better.
Mahoyo came iut just two years ago.
>>
>>115294852
ok you got me. I guess archer just had to die there no matter what in fate
>>
>>115295317
No it's his ability you fool. seriously how can you be this stupid. it specifically states that he's copying berserkers strength. That has nothing to do with archers arm aside from the fact that Shirou's using Archer's arm for all his tracing. He doesn't mention Archer's strength he mentions fucking berserkers you fool.
>>
So : Cu uses DEATHMATCH to boost Gae Bolg.

If he connects with Gae Bolg how many lives would each version take?
>>
>>115295357
It doesn't matter. Excalibur is A++ so even if it didn't OHK all 12 lives in one go, Godhand's protection is moot.
>>
>>115287410
carnival phantasm when?! FUND IT!
>>
>>115294852
>>115295425
He's limited to melee combat. Long range binding chains are not melee combat no matter how you look at it.
>>
>>115295428
No, the statement was that that only Archer's arm was capable of tracing the stats. read again.
>>
>>115295463

Except for the "gains immunity to whatever killed it before" attribute.
>>
>>115295473
You are retarded.
Chains are melee. He does long range shit all the fucking time.
>>
>>115295519
>Godhand's protection is moot
>>
>>115295522

The chains as Enkidu is used are not melee.
Archer does not project "long range shit", he projects melee shit and uses it at long range.
He doesn't project his bow, you know.
>>
>>115295357
Fully charged Excalibur was implied to be able to kill Berserker.

>That's it. Saber. Even the holy sword isn't enough with that amount of magical energy.
>…Saber's figure starts to fade.
>Saber must not be able to stand as she glares at Berserker on her knees.
>"Fufu, it must have been disappointing for you too, Berserker.
>If Saber's magical energy had been full, you would have been able to die!"
>>
>>115295517
Who do you think Archer is? Are you a secondary? Are you can idiot. Shirou does the exact same thing in fate.
>>
>>115295566
You don't know what the word melee means.
>>
>>115295519
GodHand doesn't gain immunity while Berserker is dead before resurrection.
>>
>>115295575
No it was implied to take 7 lives. There's no implication that it could take all 12.
>>
>>115295373
>implying Shakespeare and Francis Drake are more worthy than Rasputing and Tesla
>>
>>115295596

Melee means combat within arms reach. Enkidu is not an arms reach weapon. Swords are.
Shirou cannot project guns or artillery or anything but melee armaments.
>>
>>115294868
you know what he's going to say
>"get in the fucking robot"
>>
>>115295576
>Are you can idiot. Shirou does the exact same thing in fate.

No he doesn't

and see:
>And Caliburn was apparently stated by Nasu that the sword temporarily powered up due to the miracle of being reunited across the ages with its original owner.
>>
>>115295648
>Enkidu is not an arms reach weapon
It's a chain.
>>
>>115289702

Of course she dies, hell, it clearly shows her die at the end of the Fate route. It's just that, because her wish was not granted and she did not obtain the grail, the contract is nullified and she instead goes to Avalon after her death.
>>
>>115295643

Shakespeare is a shit tier hero, why do you think Semiramis has to do doubletime as caster?
And Drake is low tier as well. She got knocked out in the first round. Her A+ noble phantasm is the only good thing about her.
>>
>>115295669
That's when both Saber and Shirou wielded it. Before using a quote undertsnad what it means.

By that very fact it means Shirou did do the exact same thing.
>>
>>115295576
>>115295669
And Shirou even said he would be no match for other servants even in UBW except Gilgamesh.
>>
How the fuck does Nine Live Works kill Berserker given Godhand if he gains immunity after being killed once?

Fuck : If Ilya did win the Grail War how could she even get Herc to Suicide without Godhand taking effect?
>>
>>115290232
Him having nuclear submarines from the future in his arsenal makes no sense and is stupid. His magical sword weapons are like nukes anyway.
>>
>>115290653
Hans the Gambler as Caster

Battle Continuation + Army of Demons at his disposal

he's popular with Gamblers so his stats would be high, now, if HGW is set on Vegas...
>>
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>>115295672

That are much, much longer than arm's reach, are deployed from much farther, and aren't wielded from the hand. Not melee.
>>
>>115295722
He's wrong. He could be Assassin, false Assassin, and Caster.
>>
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>>115295067

Paracelsus.
>>
Mind if I ask a dumb question? I know there wasn't much to go on for spell ranks other than "A Rank fucks shit up," but I was wondering if those could be compared to NPs. Like, a D rank NP was equal to a whatever rank spell.

It took, what, 4 A Rank spells to kills Berserker once? Would a normal A rank NP be able kill him once, or would it take more? Him not moving and just taking the attack, it's hitting him in the head, whatever the best case scenario is.
>>
>>115295728
No Godhand 'cause mud.

Command spells.
>>
>>115295722
So you have no argument. I've proven you wrong again and again and that's all you have?

Seriously that is ad.
>>
>>115295728

If I remember right (probably not) he either lost, or his divinity was lowered to such an extent that god hand was much less effective after being corrupted by sakura.
>>
>>115295720
no,
1) Shirou wasn't even a match for 1/10 strength Archer.
2) >>115295722
>Even in this world, I am no match against any other Servants.
>I cannot match the ultimate one even with infinite swords.
>Gilgamesh must have the ability, but I do not.
>>
>>115295067
Would Zhuge Liang count as a Caster?
>>
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>>115295761
Shirou can't project swords for that reason, since they aren't wielded by hand.
>>
>>115295780
Rank is more about effectiveness than power.
>>
>>115295728

It's not clear if Black Berserker still has the protection of God Hand. It could be argued that Nine Lives didn't even kill him once, and it took the last stab to the heart to put him down. Nasu never made it clear.
>>
>>115295769
No, he have magic resistance vs Caster who could instantly make False Assassin's chest explode without warning.

False Assassin is too fast and capable of something like the 2nd magic which Shirou can't do.

Assassin's NP wrecks Shirou and he is focused on sneak attack. He was even able to sneak in undetected directly into the house and front of Shirou in HF.
>>
>>115295847
Dude can change the direction of the wind, sounds close enough.
>>
>>115295846
Yes, it's a fact. Why can't accept this is beyond me. seriously your whole argument pins on the fact Shirou flly undertsnads his abilities in UBW which is false.

Then you have the fact Archer's existence and abilty to kill other servants again proves you wrong, and then the fact all your arguments are shit have and been proven wrong.

Why are you still arguing?
>>
>>115295813

You didn't

see: >>115295846
>>
>>115293599
>"aacha, what's that shards of blade sticking out of your dick?"
>>
>>115295728
>>115295811
>>115295835
>>115295932
The mud peeled off his skin so he didn't have God Hand.
That's how Black Saber managed to damage him with the same weapon so many times, if I'm not wrong.
>>
What is the requirement for the Assassin class when it can be someone other than Hassan?
>>
>>115295869

Congratulations, you're a moron. Shirou can't project anything you can bash someone with. It has to be INTENDED for that function.
Or do you think he can project guns because pistol whipping? Or he can project a tank since Heracles could probably hit someone with it?
>>
>>115295903
than explain why Gae Bolg is B
>>
>>115295951
You need to read the fucking VN.
False Assassin had already had a curse put on him during his summoning. She couldn't arbitrarily make his chest explode.
She's also not fast enough to dodge UBW.
Shirou is capable of projecting defensive items.
>>
>>115296007
>That's how Black Saber managed to damage him with the same weapon so many times, if I'm not wrong.
But didn't he have Godhand when he fought Saber? I thought it was just Black Excaliblast having the necessary amount of mana.
>>
>>115295067
Utnapishtim
Imhotep
Circe
Hermes Trismegestus
Plato
Moses
Solomon
Virgil
Jabir ibn Hayyan
Merlin
Morgan le Fay
Imar Ua Donnubain
Solomon ibn Gabirol
Galileo Galilei
Leonardo Da Vinci
Faust
Nostradamus
Isaac Newton
Aleister Crowley
Grigori Rasputin
H.P Lovecraft
Harry Houdini
Nikola Tesla
Albert Einstein
H.R Giger
>>
>>115296003
See what hat guys wrong. and hasn't stated a single piece of proof aside from a character that doesn't fully understand his abilities. unlike us.since we've seen the full extent.
>>
>>115296046
>Shirou can't project anything you can bash someone with
He literally can, you twit.
>>
>>115296017

According to Nasu, in actual Fate continuity, no spin offs, it can't.

Side stories and spin offs, not sure the exact requirements.
>>
>>115295903
Well shit. There goes that.
>>
>>115296080
She cut him a few times before Excaliblasting him and the mud was already peeling off his skin.
He fought Black Saber while covered in mud.
>>
>>115296096
>Morgan le Fay
Ain't she a fairy?
>>
>>115296124

You're an idiot. Anything not related to melee combat comes out hollow and powerless.
>>
>>115296096
>Circe
>Aleister Crowley
>Rasputin
>Lovecraft
>summoned by an uncorrupted Grail
I doubt it. Maybe Lovecraft could, but the shit he can pull isn't heroic or good at all.
>>
>>115296149
No, she's a witch.
She's half fae, like Merlin.

Also that guy you responded to is stupid since Merlin isn't dead.
>>
>>115295637
What about the fight at the forest with Dark Saber? Her single excaliblast defeated berserker, didn't he only have 1 life left when fighting Shirou with no skin?
>>
>>115296149

Ain't Chiron a horseman? Ain't Medusa a snakeslut?

>>115296219

Shirou isn't dead either. It's "never dies", not "isn't dead".
>>
I think Fate needs a good videogame.

One of the things i loved on Extra was the fact i could self insert,pick my servant and interact/discover the identities of other servants.
>>
>>115296196
Chains are melee, you buffoon.
>>
>>115296099
No it is directly proven.

Shirou was struggling even against less than 1/10 strength archer, which proves he can't trace the stats of the original wielder.

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20215/

>His still exists because of the special class ability of Archer, but he's almost at his limits.
>His remaining strength is not even a tenth of his original powers.
>His muscles are weak, and his body will slowly disappear if he loses focus.
>"---"
>But there's no problem.
>Even if he has less than a tenth of his original power, it is enough to kill Emiya Shirou.
>Considering the difference in their abilities, this isn't even a handicap.
>Therefore, it will end once they fight.
>His one and only objective will be accomplished here.

And that was the night before the combat.
http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20218/
>>
>>115296200
>but the shit he can pull isn't heroic or good at all.
>gilles de rais
>>
>>115296259

Not Enkidu.
>>
>>115295903
Actually this is wrong, Nasu stated the opposite.

>That's a serious question. The level of the Noble Phantasm would be B, and ability being represented by numbers would be called an average Noble Phantasm. Broken Phantasm, Barrier of the Wind King (C), Gae Bolg (thrown) (B), that sort.
On the other hand, those with conceptual effects, destiny interference types fall into a special category. With Gae Bolg (regular), no matter how much Arcueid might be superior to Lancer in numbers, she will be killed depending on her luck, you see.
>>
>>115296293
He's from the corrupted grail, you tit.
>>
>>115296017
It can't.
Any instance of a non-Hassan assassin is either non-canon or the result of rule-breaking fuckery.
>>
>>115296243
>>115296293
>Name a Caster who actually could be summoned as a Heroic Spirit in an uncorrupted grail.
>>
>>115296219
and neither is Saber, they will find a convenient excuse to shoehorn him in someday.
>>
>>115296304
You literally backed up what I said.
>>
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>>115296243
Chiron chose to be summoned in human form, part of the reason was to help hide his identity.

>Archer has taken the form of a human in exchange for some of his parameters being reduced, but it does not particularly affect his skill with a bow. There is no problem with being summoned in his centaur form, but appearing as a centaur is enough to quickly narrow down possible identities from the more famous heroes. His name would be the first to appear, especially with the bow in his hand due to being the Heroic Spirit model for Sagittarius. Other than his archaic style of dress, he looks only like a gentle man without any traits to reveal his identity.

>>115296243
Medusa transforms into the Gorgon monster form the more she uses the monstrous strength. That's how she became picture related.
>>
Stop sucking Archer's cock, faggots.
>>
>>115296096
>Merlin
Except he isn't dead.
>>
>>115296370

I'm just saying there's precedent for a mostly-human nonhuman to be a servant.
>>
>>115296272
That doesn't contradict anything. The mere fact you don't understand this is silly. They're both tracing the stats of other servants in that battle, so their cancelling each other out by default. Archer has greater experience and his body can withstand it more as well as higher quality projections. that's the difference.

what you stated has no purpose in this argument.
>>
>>115296304
Hold on, when'd Arcueid get mentioned? Plus Shiki freaking killed her and that didn't kill her.
>>
>>115296379
Archer is a weak as fuck servant.
Literally any of the knight classes in all the wars could beat him.
>>
>>115296379
Do you even keep up?
>>
>>115295780
Rin's attack against Berserker was Rank A, and it only took one life.

>>115295903
>>115296304
Nasu already stated that Lancer could buff his NP to rank A using runes.
>>
What class would Ajax be if he was summoned into a grail war?
>>
>>115296464
garcher
>>
>>115296464
Which one?
>>
>>115296432

That's part of Nasu's quote.
Shiki only wrecked her body (cut the lines). He didn't kill her existence (stab the dots). Even a true ancestor could not come back from the latter.
>>
>>115296464
Defender
>>
>>115296422
This is also ignoring the fact that Shirou doesn't trace any servants stats by using k&B because K&B or blank slates which is why archer uses them.
>>
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>>115296447
Then why is he the strongest servant who could win the war in three days?
>>
>>115295473
>>115295522
maybe archer actually did project enkidu to chip one or two lives away from berserker before he was able to break it (and that's likely to happen sooner than when he fought gill because of the lower rank)
>>
>>115296422
no, you are making shit up. Otherwise, Archer wouldn't have only traced Kanshou & Bakuya against other servants like Lancer.

and >>115293798
proves Shirou can't trace the stats for the body.
>>
>>115296360
No if you can read it's the opposite the rank is independent of the conceptual effect. that means it's not linked to effectiveness.
>>
>>115296457
I love how Lancer's answer on most things is runes.
>>
>>115286046

Copy begin
>>
Why are you guys acting like Shakespeare, Lovecraft, Tesla and other writers/inventors/philosophers would be good servants?

They had no special powers and nobody thinks they did. I mean I know the grail can bullshit up some powers if people think they had them but no one does think that.

It's not like Lovecraft would be able to summon the things he wrote about right?
>>
>>115296567
>and >>115293798
>proves Shirou can't trace the stats for the body


Actually it only proves his body can't keep up with his tracing. Which it can't.
>>
>>115296447
>Archer is a weak as fuck servant.
thats lancer
>>
>>115296447
This is wrong as stated by Nasu. he can oneshot pretty much all of them bar maybe gil.
>>
>>115295669
he uses the projected NP battle experience against kuzuki in ubw
>>
>>115296618
Shakespeare already got shown to be bretty shit besides the ability to always run away
Lovecraft would be mage and get some shit like bluebeard but still shit
Tesla a shit
>>
>>115296457
I thought it was more that all the jewels were A Rank spells and that was what got through, and combined they were enough kill him once.

>>115296501
Fuck my reading comprehension.
>>
>>115296567
>Archer wouldn't have only traced Kanshou & Bakuya against other servants like Lancer.
Man not even that guy but he uses those weapons because he has control over them.
>>
>>115296626
No it was directly stated:
>My limbs can't keep up with the extracted experience.

Also Max Shirou couldn't even win against Bazett (who in turn couldn't fight physically against servants, and even can't deal with 3rd grail war hassan Assassin physically)

Dengeki Hime 10/2006 - Fate Dream Battle Round 5 - Bazett vs. Shirou
>Nasu:With this time's battle, since we're working off the assumption that Shirou "has trained/is operating himself to the max", people might think that this might end up being a good fight, but m'lady Bazett's a trained professional specializing in anti-magus battles. Technique, experience, and battle power. Against someone like her whose superior in all those regards, even with a "Broken Phantasm", Shirou's disadvantages are still not going to change. And you see. She's ruthless.
>>
>>115296652
Meaningless. Herk can oneshot them all, Gil can oneshot them all, Saber can oneshot them all, Cu can one shot them all.
>>
>>115296626
It proves his body gains the stats but it's put understrain. but it has enough time to kill a servant which is why he could kill dark berserker and take off a life of regular.
>>
>>115296652
citation needed
>>
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>>115296618

I like the romantic notion that writing is magic. Talented writers like Shakespeare and Andersen being able to use their craft to such effect that it affects perception and reality is something that really speaks to me.

Similarly, I liked the concept of Nursery Rhyme.
>>
>>115296687
Lovecraft doesn't have a cult of legend built around him. Urobochi referenced Lovecraft because he liked him, but your logic is like saying Lovecraft was as strong as Evil Ash just because the Necromicon is in the Evil Dead.
>>
>>115296735
Cu physically can't Saber can but only depending on the circumstances can, gil can but won't under most circumstances..
>>
>>115296735
>herc can oneshot them all
>>
>>115296735

Yes, the 5th grail war was a pack of fucking monsters even among heroes.
>>
>>115296835
Name one servant whose head he couldn't crush.
>>
>>115296735
To be fair they're all, on paper, broken as hell. Gil and Saber could oneshot at a range, but one's a giant mana cost and the other's Gil.
>>
>>115296724
It was more due to the fact that Kanshou and Bakuya have no natural wielder, thus allowing him to develop his own fighting style with it. Also they are easy to trace and provides physical and magical protection.

But that alone wouldn't be enough to make it more advantageous than the stat boost if it was so easy to do.

I think it is possible that the NBW was just Shirou using reinforcement on Archer's arm but it was mistranslated.
>>
>>115296870

Karna
>>
>>115296870
The Headless Horseman as Rider.
>>
>>115296733
The sword moves my itself. and is strong enough to take off berserker's life as well as fast enough.

Your not helping your point
>>
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>>115296908
Oh FUCK YOU
>>
>>115296813
I wonder if you can summon musicians as Caster.
>>
>>115296715
Each gem has A rank magecraft
>>
>>115296892
>It was more due to the fact that Kanshou and Bakuya have no natural wielder
Which is exactly what I just said everytime he uses a weapon who had a wielder before they move on their own.
>>
>>115296870
Siegfried? Achilles?
>>
>>115296870
Again that's retarded because herc can't, he may have the strength to but no servant would allow him, because you know they can block, parry and dodge his attacks.
>>
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>>115290653
Crystal Jesus under the Archer class so he can have level of freedom to save people.
>>
>>115296978

Hercules has Divinity, so I assume he'd be able to crush Achilles' head.
>>
>>115296931
You are repeating points that have already been answered:
>And Caliburn was apparently stated by Nasu that the sword temporarily powered up due to the miracle of being reunited across the ages with its original owner.

And that moment isn't just because Saber was wielding it with him, it technically reunited because he projected it near Saber.
>>
>>115296870
that guy with the longest sword
>>
>>115296939
Fuck my grammar, too. That's what I meant. I was trying to say that it took 4 A ranks from magecraft to kill him once.
>>
>>115296813

That shit was used once in strange fake, it was a cool idea for that whole series but no where else. Ever "writer/caster" has been the same and its just not good.
>>
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>>115297033

Ado Edem?
>>
>>115296892
No archer does use other swords. It's basically just because because eye of mind ensures he won't die in normal combat, and tracing stats is a high risk high reward strategy.
>>
>>115296831
>Cu physicaly can't
What do you mean with that?
>>
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>>115290653
Tatsuya - Avenger
War is over in a few hours.
>>
>>115297030
No it'd not you can't honestly tell me you believe that?

that's some of the silliest logic I've come across.
>>
>>115297104
Don't mind any attention, he's just another Archer fanboy
>>
>>115297104
Luck , Cu can only one shot through Gae bolg. High luck prevents that.
>>
>>115297030
You are fucking retarded. The miracle happens when she grabs it and Caliblasts gaining strength there.
>>
>>115297077
yeah, I bet Herc can't catch up to hi-

HOLY SHIT, just read his info
>>
>>115297183
Luck doesn't prevent the thrown version.
>>
>>115297003
For a second I thought that was a picture of Demifiend's arm. I'd summon Demifiend.
>>
How much Shirou should a Saber sword if a Saber could sword Shirou?
>>
>>115297165
Their wank gets nearly as obnoxiius as that of Gilfags
>>
>>115297128
The sword moves by itself but it is stated that he can't keep up with it.
-------------
I'm tossed away.
As soon as my consciousness returns, the sword must have left everything in my hands.
I am easily thrown away by the attacks I was easily blocking until now.

"Haah"
The senses in my arms are already gone. My wrist is about to rip off as I can see the red meat.

"Kuh…!"
My legs won't move. All my muscles must have stopped working.
I can't stand up.
I made the sword that surpasses Berserker.
But that's all.
As I am only a maker, I cannot handle the sword!
---------
and Max Shirou can't defeat Bazett (who can't keep up physically with true servants)
>>115296733

And Shirou knew full well he couldn't even match other servants in UBW:
>>115295846

And even then:
>No, he could only fight Gilgamesh because UBW is a hard counter to GoB.
>1) UBW could fire more NPs per second compared to Gilgamesh, because all the swords are already 'ready'. And thus Gilgamesh have to defend against stray NPs too.
>2) Shirou can instantly replace the weapons in his hand while Gilgamesh have to manually pull them out.
>3) Shirou could download the techniques, but his body can't keep up (even in HF), but Gilgamesh was only a owner, and have not mastered any of his Noble Phantasm like the other heroes did.
>Even with all those advantages, Shirou had to be relentless and strike while the iron was hot, because he knew if Gilgamesh regains composure he would be screwed, this was stated by Shirou himself.

and >>115293798
proves his body can't keep up with the extracted experience.
>>
>>115297267
The thrown version can be blocked.
>>
>>115297396
And you can cut off Gil's hand before he takes out Ea. What's your point?
>>
>>115297183
High Luck just gives you a chance to not get killed
>>
>>115297395
He doesn't need to keep up with that's the whole point of tracing stats, you he just needs to withstand the strain on his body.
>>
>>115297216
No, because Berserker would have gained immunity from the first cut Shirou did.
>>
>>115297396

So people who can not die against Gae Bolg:
Ajax
Emiya Shirou
>>
>>115297299

Even without demon familiars that still would be broken as fuck. I like it.
>>
>>115297493
Can't be immune to Excalibur.
>>
>>115297441
Umm no, the only way you can cut off gils hand before Ea is either outright countering it, or UBW.

Whereas you can block the thrown version. Which puts a dampner on one shot everyone.
>>
>>115297493

An attack with an item =/= the activation attack of the same item
Slash with Caliburn does not equal Caliburn ~ Golden Sword of Assured Victory
>>
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>>115290653
>Gil is also roaming around

This guy, they can throw their treasures at one another
>>
>>115297592
Counter his hand? Sounds pretty easy for a servant.
>>
>>115297501
Gilgamesh. And that's assuming it's the only shield capable of blocking it.
>>
>>115297477

no, see: >>115296892
>I think it is possible that the NBW was just Shirou using reinforcement on Archer's arm but it was mistranslated.

And nothing about tracing strength was mentioned, only skills.

Fate/complete material III: World Material -The Servants of the Fifth Holy Grail War: Archer, p.026-027

>Thaumaturgy: C-
>During his life time, the sorceries learned by Emiya are unremarkable. Before becoming a Heroic Spirit, even “reinforcement” was quite difficult. However, the “projection” sorcery he wields is quite special, as it is able to duplicate weapons, including all the components, to near perfection. In addition, during duplication, he can even read the wielder’s skills, which allows him to gain all kinds of Noble Phantasms and combat skills.
During his life time, Emiya used the preliminary step of projection – “structural analysis”, to find the location of an item’s fault and proceed with repair.
>>
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I summon Kumagawa as Avenger.
I will lose, but it will be one hell of a ride.
I could summon FRESH too, but it would be like an even more broken version of Heracles.
>>
>>115297633
Never died.
>>
>>115297638
Gilgamesh won't let you near him, that's what GoB is for.
>>
>>115297693
>King Arthur
>>
>>115297643
And there is nothing about tracing other NPs for the stats, otherwise he wouldn't be forced to go with these types of tactics.

-----------
Tactics
Since Emiya is a Heroic Spirit from the future, he does not have any blessings provided by fame. In addition, he does not have Noble Phantasms, as a result his basic abilities are below other Servants. However, his exceptional use of tactics and battle experience makes his combat style very distinct from other Servants. The Archer class originally focuses on long range combat, but Emiya loves melee combat and wishes to conceal his trump card, thus he focuses on melee tactics with Kansho and Bakuya when engaging other Servants.
The reason an Emiya with no Noble Phantasms is able to match other Servants or even exceed them is the Reality Marble “Unlimited Blade Works”, which includes “all the elements necessary to shape swords”. This Boundary Field can copy weapons that are seen only once, and store them within. In the Fifth Holy Grail War, the weapons stored had exceeded thousands. Emiya can freely take out and utilise the weapons according to the situation, and he can also assault the enemy by firing many Noble Phantasms from the Boundary Field like arrows in the same way as Gilgamesh’s “Gate of Babylon”.
Emiya’s trump card is firing copied Noble Phantasms as arrows – “Broken Phantasm”. On impact, the magical force will explode, generating overwhelming destructive power. By assaulting melee Servants with this type of long range attack, Emiya is able to turn the odds to his favour.
>>
>>115297706
Take away his orphans first.

>>115297729
Are you daft?
>>
>>115297643
Well Archer's arm IS a piece of a servant, So he pumped it up to/from the C rank strength it already had or something?
>>
>>115297643
Yes it wa syou idiot. it also clearly wans't reinforcement. You simply can't accept the facts.

>>115293925
>>
>>115297633
now i know why he's not even designed yet

gil's buttmad would be hilarious
>>
>>115297643
>only skills.
If that includes Caliburn moving around by itself then I agree. Well I am not the guy are having this silly fight with.
>>
>>115297744
skills include stats you fool. this is stated in the VN.check the original Japanese if you like it's the same.
>>
>>115297805
No, there are tons of sources that stats otherwise.
>>
>>115297859
No there isn't .nothing contradicts so your wrong because the Vn directly states it.
>>
>>115297856
Not it doesn't, you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
>>
>>115297930
You can't reenforce physical things.
>>
>>115297859
Your argument hinges on skills not including stats for some weird reason despite it being proven otherwise.
>>
>>115297954
You have no proof accept it. I however have the VN to back me up.
>>
>>115297930
A translated VN with many mistakes.

Such as the last words of Kotomine's wife to Kirei.

Such as Shirou's comment about Ayako escaping his molester

Such as Saber's comment on Illya's control of Berserker

Such as way the lines in the sex scene were translated.

Such as translating Ally of Justice to Superhero.

etc...
>>
>>115297961
I'm not the one arguing that.
>>
>>115298023
A Virile Nigerian?
>>
>>115298049
Prove that's wrong because like I said I checked and it's right.

Your argument is aweful
>>
>>115298049
>Such as translating Ally of Justice to Superhero.
That is perfectly fine and accepted.
>>
>>115298023
Except I fucking did, I posted tons of sources that proved otherwise.
>>
>>115298071
So who can't argue himself out of a paper bag. Lol truly bottom tier debating skills.
>>
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>>115297961

Excuse me what
>>
>>115298109
>Your argument is aweful
There's delusional and then there's you
>>
>>115298158
He's projecting strength.
>>
>>115298126
No you did not. That statement in the VN is correct. Nothing you've posted contradicts it. Even a monkey could see it.
>>
>>115298152
You can't even tell that wasn't my post.
>>
>>115298049
>Such as Saber's comment on Illya's control of Berserker
Completely accurate to the VN
>Such as translating Ally of Justice to Superhero.
Perfectly fine
>Such as way the lines in the sex scene were translated.
Machine translation because nobody wanted to do them
>the rest
Some minor mistakes, yes. But not "many"
>>
>>115298191
>aweful
>full of awe
He's complimenting you, mate.
>>
>>115298191
Says someone trying argue against a stated fact in the VN,

you have no argument and your wrong. this is a fact. No matter what you do that statement remains in the VN for a very specific reason.
>>
>>115298205
Yes I fucking did.


see:
>>115297395
>>115296272
>>115297643
>>
>>115298233
Who cares if it was post I wasn't responding to you with that statement.
>>
>>115298266

see: >>115298049
>>
>>115298321
I care if it was post. Post statement was responding.
>>
>>115298294
No you did not. nothing contradicts it. that fact you can't even point out a single contradicting statement and that fact your evidence points the opposite 9skills include stats you dumbass), mean your completely wrong. The VN states your wrong.

accept it.
>>
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Do really have to go through a 120 hour long VN to watch this show?
>>
>>115298355
See someone that debunked a lot of that. when I couldn't be assed.

Your argument is terrible the statement is correct no matter how many straws you grasp
>>
>>115298405
Yes it fucking did, you just refuse to admit it.
>>
>>115298424
No, the novel is awful and disgusting.
>>
>>115298424

Yes, do it.
>>
>>115298424

It's like 60 hours or so. If you wanna half ass it you can just read Fate route so you can at least establish a foundation to watch UBW.
>>
Archer gave Rin her pendant back in 00 but Shirou picked it up in 01.
...
THE FUCK??
>>
>>115298424
It's not like you have anything else to do
>>
>>115298477
Even a monkey can see that your wrong. the statement is in the VN and it correct? yes, Then your wrong you utter buffoon. your statements don't even contradict it. And yet you keep arguing like an idiot.
>>
>>115298449

No they didn't:
>Completely accurate to the VN
They didn't realize the realta patch had to translate some lines.

translated:
Saber: "You have not been using his berserker abilities all these times…!?"
Ilya: "Go mad, Berserker"
Realta Nua:
Saber: "You have not been allowing Berserker to become wild."
Ilya: "Obliterate them, Berserker"

>Perfectly fine
It wasn't fine on multiple levels.

>Machine translation because nobody wanted to do them
That thing was already confirmed false by other anon when it was posted.
And an example of the mistranslation was:
It felt so good it makes me want to vomit, when it was more like It felt so good it makes my head spin/dizzy.

And there rest he ignored because it is true they were mistranslated.
>>
>>115298649
speak for you self, you are the one that thinks that you can just ignore facts and hope saying it enough time would somehow make it true.
>>
>>115298681
>They didn't realize the realta patch had to translate some lines.

Mirror Moon wasn't fucking translating realta nua.

>It wasn't fine on multiple levels.

Name a single thing wrong? "Ally of justice" is just as childish and nonsensical as "superhero".

>That thing was already confirmed false by other anon when it was posted.

Citation please, even TakaJun said he wasn't working on them.
>>
>>115298649
You are the one that thinks combat skill = stats
>>
>>115297299
Berserker True Demon Ending Demifiend. Jesus.
>>
>>115295932
>It originally had the form of the bow and arrows used to simultaneously exterminate the one hundred heads of the Hydra, an immortal nine-headed serpent, that would grow back no matter how many times they were cut down

It is common sense to assume that he killed Berserker 9 times

>Q: Berserker's NP, "Nine Lives" has the form of a bow and arrow set it seems, but is there something special about it's form as a NP? Also, does "Nine Lives" as a skill simultaneously release 9 strikes?

>A: Nine Lives is more like one style rather than one armament. There's the Nine Lives using a bow, the Nine Lives using a sword, the Nine Lives using a shield, and so on. And what led to the making of that style was the killing of the Hydra, and like that, he simultaneously annihilated 100 heads with a bow.
>>
>>115298681
That's because of RN, a different version of the line on the base game.

Either way that specific statement is correct no matter how hard you try to wealsel.
>>
File: Untitled-2.jpg (40.84 KB, 800x600)
40.84 KB
40.84 KB JPG
>>115298628
>>115298566
>>115298536
>>115298512
h-here I go. The definite version, I think. It has sex scenes in it.
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>>115298803
There's not even a logical fallacy there and tracing of stats is stated in the VN. Why do you keep ignoring this. I know why because it proves your wrong.
>>
>>115296257
A game with all the Servants, for PS4 or something.
>>
>>115298907

>9 hits = 9 kills

Not how it works with Battle Continuation A
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>>115298737
>Mirror Moon wasn't fucking translating realta nua.
That's what I basically said. I that that poster didn't realize that the person who did realta nua had to retranslate some lines.


>Citation please, even TakaJun said he wasn't working on them.
http://archive.moe/a/thread/115270740/#115272545
>>
>>115298424
If you want to participate in discussions, yes. It is essential to know what the fuck you're talking about.

If you just want to watch something, go for it. But don't be a filthy secondary and come to discussions without reading the original source.
>>
>>115298958
No it isn't, because the sources prove you wrong.

>>115298294

And tracing 'stats' was never ever mentioned.
>>
>>115299056
No it's not I've verified by reading the original Japanese VN. You don't have shit. Nothing, nothing at all.
>>
>>115299009

that guy wasn't exactly citing his statement either.
>>
>>115298049
Ally of Justice is a term the japs use to refer to superheroes.
>>
>>115299125
prove it with screen shot.
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>>115299156
Not it doesn't, because it refers to non-superheroes also.
>>
>>115299158
Post in Japanese can you even read moon? The translation here is correct. If you want I can post it up.

>>115293925
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>>115298910
No it was not, it was a retranslation part of the patch
>>
Okay these arguments are stupid, you guys are both wrong.
>>
>>115299227

It still refers to childish idols.
>>
>>115298681
Kotomine's wife's last words:
translated:
"No, I love you"
original
"No, you love me"



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