What was the point of this? She is already a mage..
To make her a woman who knows worms.
Gotta rewire those circuits.
Will the wormpit be the edgiest thing Nasu ever writes?
It still hasn't been beaten.
Gotta get that edge factor.
It was rewriting her into a Matou magus. Hence her purple hair and eyes. Sorta like implanting a Crest, but with more penis worm rape.
>penis worm rape.
Sakura a pure virgin.
so as i pray
unlimited worm works
Yes, Nasu wrote it.
READ THE VN
>retard secondaries keep making shit threads
>the mainstream /a/ will begin hating TM
>it leads into "TMshit" treatment
>the amount of retard secondaries is halted as TM threads get shitposted and die out slowly
I want to believe.
>TMshit in general
>not Fateshit in particular
Won't happen and the term "secondary" being applied to TM is a major reason why.
why couldnt they do it another way?
Because Zouken is an old Japanese man. All he knows is loli rape. And since his body is made out of worms, penis worms it was.
>What was the point of this?
MATURE CONTENT FOR MATURE AUDIENCE
his body isn't made of worms and he's russian
It's the Matou way of training
Because they didn't know another way, because Zouken didn't care to know another way. I'm pretty sure you could have come up with a different, perfectly pleasant way to do it, and he would still go with the penis worms.
Did Shinji spend any time with the dickworms?
His body is definitely made out of worms. Worms are his body, and worms are his blood. Also, the book "Lolita" was written by a Russian, so that's even worse.
>his body isn't made of worms
Actualy it is
no you dumb piece of shit, he is a human obsessed with worms
Worms transfer their ecstasy directly to Zouken as they feast upon the innocent girl's magic and all other parts.
isnt that a pretty stupid way of prolonging your life? worms arent immortal either.
>it leads into "TMshit" treatment
That happens since forever man.
They are his familiars, not normal worms
Yeah, but they reproduce really fast.
Change elements and magical attribute. Later it is used to make her resilient enough to act as a Grail.
The man doesn't have many answers that aren't worms. If you have a nail to hit, he will give you a worm, if you have a report to write, he will give you a worm, if he needs to teach you to be a magus he will use worms, if he needs to teach you to be an educated prostitute he will use worms.
>not knowing about the 3 different kinds of worms Zouken uses
Blood worms - 吸血虫 - Kyuuketsuchuu
What Zouken became.
Crest worms - 刻印虫 - Kokuinchuu
What was planted inside Sakura and Matou Kariya. Worms that will continue to eat the Prana of the user and do nothing more than transmit whether the user is still alive or not.
Forces the body itself to physically remember the thaumaturgy of a line and hence is regarded. Can expand one's circuits (and will eventually act as artificial circuits in one year) and speed up acquisition of thaumaturgy in a short amount of time provided training. Cost in that case is extremely shortenned life (only a few years) in addition to the pain factor.
Sakura's worms were made from the remains of the 4th grail.
淫虫 - Inchuu (Lust worms)
The lowest of familiars. Used by Zouken. Worms that love feasting on the blood, marrow, and energy of humans. Will shatter the spine of males and suck on the brain, turning them into cripples. Will feast on the mental energies of the women instead by sexual stimulation through the nervous system. Will not normally eat the flesh of women, but the uterus is one of their favorite meals. Will consume the placenta once sexual pleasures, enough to fry the nerves in the brain, are given to the victim.
why not just transfer his soul into another human or pick a creature that is really long lived?
Why they even use worms for magic and not say for example pretty jewels like Tohsaka family?
>Will feast on the mental energies of the women instead by sexual stimulation through the nervous system.
Will a normal penis ever be able to satisfy Sakura?
No, but a jackhammer might.
No. It would require some kind of magical jackhammer. Surely no man has that much virility.
Sakura never got "lustworm"ed.
A magus can't just do whatever they feel like, think of it like alchemy in FMA. There are rules and such.
So if the lust wroms are that bad how come Sakura can still function normally instead of ending up like those broken people in hentai who can think of nothing but the pleasure of sex? Is her mental fortitude that strong?
His problem isn't how long the worms live but that his soul is rotting away.
She never got the Lust Worms.
She got Crest Worms.
Still wormrape but not that bad
If you were able to read you would see that she got Crest Worms
so how does tha tmake the worms a good idea?
>Sakura's worms were made from the remains of the 4th grail.
But she was shown getting wormed in F/Z, before the Grail got blown up.
how is she able to survive for more than 1 year with crest worms
Because she doesn't need the "1 year wormtraining from hell" to participate.
If zouken is a few hundred year old magus why wouldnt he participate in the grail war? surely he ha sbetter chances of winning than kariya and shinji/
>speed up acquisition of thaumaturgy in a short amount of time provided training
That's what reduces lifetime drasticaly and what happened with Kariya.
Who was probably the biggest retard in the Nasuverse
He is actualy so old that he needs most of his magical energy to keep himself alive via worms.
Also at some point he forgot why he tried to get the grail
Wasn't as tough Zouken wasn't that concerned about Kariya surviving past the war. Also Sakura had more natural talent which makes it safer to use the worms in the first place, as her magic circuits could handle more stress than Kariya's could.
>Sakura a pure virgin.
Anon please, im dying here
Yeah, and he should summon a Servant suitable for his wisdom and guile, like Caster, or Assassin, letting him operate from the shadows!
Because then he puts himself up on board to be killed?
Because Masters like tokiomi, kayneth, and kiritsugu are a big deal?
He joins in heavens feel though, replacing Shinji after he lost in the greatest record time ever. Got impatient, and realised 5th war's masters were pretty shit.
that's the whole fucking point of the thread, it's not a good idea, but it's just worms so deal with it
>Will not normally eat the flesh of women, but the uterus is one of their favorite meals. Will consume the placenta once sexual pleasures, enough to fry the nerves in the brain, are given to the victim.
Why does any of this happen.
How does it even slightly affect the plot?
>Sakura is a pure virgin
>wait this isn't Hogwarts.jpg
ZOUKEN JUST LIKES WORMS OKAY
STOP BULLYING HIM
You are supposed to hate him because of it.
You are also supposed to feel sorry for Sakura, soaking in those shit every day for 10 years.
that's a pretty fucked up thing to say Shirou
He should keep his worms to himself rather than going around and trying to share them with every cute girl he knows.
The real question is why did Shinji decide to stick his dick into a wormhole?
I don't follow
He only participated in the 5th war because his long term plan with getting a heir to win him the 6th did go down the drain when Sakura made a contract with the Shadow
Read the fucking VN.
Dealing with the soul is actual "true magic" Thats the whole reason why Zouken wants the grail.
sexual drive leads to increasing mana pool
>why doesnt Zouken just do Third Magic
Me either. Who the hell are you, anyway? I don't like you.
The translation for F/SN was already pretty bad, but I heard the sex scenes were machine translated and then edited.
It atleast keeps him alive for some reason he just can't remember.
Also other animals/things wouldn't help
reshaping her womb
Literally the first Fate thread I've ever been not really. I try to avoid this franchise like the plague. Get your head out your ass.
So it really could have been anything "negative" and it amount to the same?
Sounds like shitty writing.
You found a plothole.
Somebody make a dancing girl gif of this.
You heard wrong. Takajun translated it all manually.
>Thats the whole reason why Zouken wants the grail.
How about you reread his deathscene
that vision power is broken as fuck
>le shitty writing buzzword
You should try to avoid these threads even harder. Better yet, just avoid this board. Here is a more epic one for you to browse
Zouken has been worming her for years. He stated before the 4th, and added the remains of the 4th grail later.
You're right, I had forgotten. I realized my mistake shortly after I posted. I remembered the use of the third magic as the conclusion, but not as Zouken's motivation.
Shinji is still a teenaged boy and he wanted to be above Sakura in at least something as thanks to her magical talent the Matou family doesn't give a crap about Shinji and treats him like shit. He pulled the whole "If you feel sorry for me then let me fuck you" card on her. it's like a sick combination of rape and pity sex he does the same thing with with Rider "if you really want to protect sakura let me fuck you" dude really likes to bang dead fishes because neither girl does anything but let him pound away til he finishes.
yeah i wish i could utilise my eyes to see.
Then why the concept of Lust Worms if nobody will use them?
Why not, autist-kun?
Fuck off. If something could be replaced by anything else with no consequence to the story it is shitty writing.
Now I remember why I never come to these thread. People like you are in them. Do us all a favor and drink a gallon of bleach.
''The National Korean Dance''
>hurrr de durr look at my shitposting!!!
Zouken did use Lust Worms on a random woman at some point though.
Bait-kun, just stop. Here is that reply you are so desperate for. Take it and leave.
That's a good question, especially when there is a superior maiden in his school.
What the fuck means an 'educated' prostitute?
And Shirou ever gets to fill her completely? (using trace on his dick) ?
>"I do not Jackhammer maidens... I create a world in which infinite maidens are Jackhammered!"
>62 seconds apart
Let's start with this.
Explain why said points are pivotal to the story.
If you can't; then fuck off.
>What the fuck means an 'educated' prostitute?
A very experienced prostitute.
>oh fuck, people arnt biting
>f-fuck. Better call samefag whilst soldiering on with my lame bait!
>None, she's a Tsundere.
And by your own logic you are "biting" by replying.
How about you stop replying to him?
but he transferred his sosul into worms without the use of the grail
Now you're replying to yourself.
It loses impact if no char the readers care about suffers from it, retard-kun
Read the fucking VN.
I bet you are the same kind of autist who whined at the songs in the Lord of the Rings books.
Just stop, anon - please. I'm asking politely.
A prostitute with minimum education being High School. At least in murica
Anyone's who not this retard mind chiming in?
Not everyone in the Fate fanbase is this stupid, right?
No, but it sounds like you might have done it
Are you beginning to get frustrated that nobody is falling for your bait?
Right back at you, you're still assuming you're talking to the same guy. I'll do myself a favour and leave this thread, don't bother replying unless you want to stroke your own ego, I won't read it.
Shinji taught her well.
Only took you three replies to get your phone out, huh?
And you mean the bait of you explaining what should supposedly be a simple point to the plot?
You realize if you had done that we could have been long over this, right?
Yeah, it's dumb. There's really nothing to be said about it, my head canon works just as well without it.
No, because he doesn't even have Magic Circuits. That was the whole point of bringing Sakura to the Makiris, because their magecraft died with Shinji.
>huuuuur everything ever mentioned HAS to have some hurge significance duuuur
New to fiction, autistic or lame baiter. The choise is yours.
Because Zouken is borderline retarded.
They wanted another Matou magus since Shinji is worthless in every single regard, so instead of being intelligent and merging Sakura's abilities with the Matou crest, Zouken did some experimental dickworm shit to forge an artificial circuit over the one she already had. Basically destroying all of her natural talents and realigning her abilities with the water element.
That's why she merges so well with the grail in Heaven's Feel. The combination of her latent Imaginary Numbers magic and the comical levels of abuse she received all her life made her go batshit insane and try to eat the world.
why did their magecraft die
>since Shinji is worthless in every single regard
Hey, fuck you. Shinji is a cool guy who doesn't deserve all the hate he gets.
WHAT WAS THE FUCKING POINT
JUST TO CHANGE HER HAIR COLOR AND EYE COLOR?
i fucking hated the VN
They were forcing Sakura to change her element from Imaginary Numbers to Water IIRC. Which is difficult, like making Shirou learn magecraft besides Projection.
>Around 200 years ago, the Makiri entered in decline and their offspring started to lose their capacity to manifest Magic Circuits. Although they covered up with the excuse that they were incompatible with the spiritual land of Fuyuki, the true reason behind this sudden fall of their bloodline was never explained.
Gotta deliver that pandering to keep the normals watching.
As a magus, the kid may as well be dead. Zero magic circuits and zero aptitude for magic outside of the pre-written book of spells Zouken gave him. He's the real-life equivalent of a script kiddie, essentially.
who's this sperm worm?
>two episodes without Sakura
that sounds like a plot device
Didn't you say you weren't going to reply anymore? And no, you weren't intentionally trying to spell that wrong.
But still still have both attributes...
and Zouken actually doesn't need a heir because he intends to live forever.
Also carving the teachings into the body was the standard Makiri teachings long before Zouken. Zouken just changed the process to using worms.
>No, because he doesn't even have Magic Circuits. That was the whole point of bringing Sakura to the Makiris, because their magecraft died with Shinji.
The Makiri line moved from their homeland to Fuyuki and fell. For a magus to leave their land carries the meaning of departing from their own magic foundation and is extremely risky.
Probably had more to do with magi marrying and having children with non-magi.
What infuriates me is that Shirou's parents are never even touched on. The kid has almost as many circuits as Rin, who is considered one of the most gifted magi in the world. How the fuck did Shirou wind up with magic circuits and how was he born with the natural aptitude for tracing to the point of creating a Reality Marble for it?
Biy did that fail, Sakura never once uses a water spell
she's never going to show up again
She utilizes water through absorbtion,binding and manipulation
Because the Makiris are garbage. As expected from russian magi.
She captured Saber, Gilgamesh and Berserker with her water element powers.
Fate/complete material III: World Material - Theory of Magic - Magecraft: Land and Thaumaturgy, p.043
Land and Thaumaturgy
To use magic, what is necessary is a sequence in which a magus, once establishing contact with a magic foundation engraved in the world, sends a command to the magic foundation and executes a premade function. At this time, the fuel used for executing the function is magic energy, and the magus will have to send the command at the same time as the magic energy.
Magic foundations are magic theories that magus schools have engraved in the world, and magic is started up in accordance with those rules and systems. For example, the magic theory with the largest foundation is the “Teaching of the Lord” of the Church. Magic foundations engraved in the form of academia and religions fuse intimately with the veins of the land, and the magus using that magic foundation can perform magic anywhere in the world. However, if the magus leaves the land where his magic foundation was engraved in, he loses the backup of his land, and the force is certain to deteriorate.
Note that the case is different with magic foundations that are not academia or religions but rather are passed down through personal orally transmitted teachings, the limited inheritance in clans, etc. As long as the rules of those foundations are met, it is possible to exhibit the same basic effect no matter where one is in the world.
The Makiri line moved from their homeland to Fuyuki and fell. For a magus to leave their land carries the meaning of departing from their own magic foundation and is extremely risky.
>The kid has almost as many circuits as Rin
He has more than average but that is just wrong
Actualy I don't remember a spell she used that didn't utilize Matou magecraft
Why is this TMshit so hard to troll? I've been shitposting for a while but all you do is to explain stuff. This isn't fun anymore, fuck you all and bye.
Also the Tohsaka family recovers by being buried into a coffin on their land, something about their family being related to vampires.
"Kotomine, where's Tohsaka!? She was there too, right!? Where is she!?"
"I have Rin resting at her place.
You only had your energy taken away, but she had her magical energy taken away. It would normally take seven days to recover, but the land of Tohsaka is good for her.
If all goes well, she should regain consciousness by tomorrow afternoon."
"I see. So her life's not in danger?"
"No. The soil of that land is special. It is a ley line that is said to have been home to vampires. Rin is her family's heir, so she will be back to her impudent self if I keep her buried for a day."
I think I heard something I'm not used to hearing, but I decide not to ask about it.
Let's hope he doesn't literally mean "bury".
Shirou had 18 and Rin had 24, didn't they?
God but Nasuverse is retarded.
I wonder how much of the post-FSN fluff was invented retroactively to explain away the plotholes.
Anyone have dl link of servant stats.
>The kid has almost as many circuits as Rin
Isn't that because of his shitty training so he makes new circuits every time he wants to cast magic?
27 vs 40, not counting the 30-odd she has from the crest.
Shirou has 27 and Rin has 40 + 30 subcircuits
so if a mage goes on a holiday overseas wont their magic deteroriate? same for all the mages who go to the clocktower to study.
The crest has nothing to do with the subcircuits
Except land and mages were a common part of many wizard/mage tradition in history.
The Makiri/Matou magecraft deteroriated over the span of 200 years.
Also vacation != moving
What is so retarded about it?
No, didn't you read?
Magic foundations engraved in the form of academia and religions fuse intimately with the veins of the land, and the magus using that magic foundation can perform magic anywhere in the world. However, if the magus leaves the land where his magic foundation was engraved in, he loses the backup of his land, and the force is certain to deteriorate.
Why does Rin barely do anything other than fire a few magic missiles at Shirou, then? I get that she fucking blows Berserker's head off in the Fate route in addition to reviving Shirou, but why are those the only times she's shown using genuinely powerful magic?
I never really understood the Tohsakas. From what I understand, Rin deposits all of the mana she naturally produces into gemstones, and supposedly that's just one of her family's traits, hence why she whines on a couple of occasions about how they never had any money. Is that the extent of their abilities, though? Can the Tohsaka not cast magic unless they have a charged gemstone to do it with?
There's no such thing as a subcircuit.
She has 40 circuits each of which has an output of 30 arbitrary units.
Shirou's are 10 each.
except he trolled her till she made the contract, she was resisting at first, but he was constantly laying it thick on her to make her make the deal. The talk with shirou at the start made him start.
How about you learn to read?
Magic Circuits [Magecraft]
Pseudo-nerves within the body of a magus.
Magic circuits are responsible for converting life force into magical energy, and for connecting to the underlying grand sorcery formula.
Because the number of magic circuits a person has is fixed at birth, magi lineages do what they can to improve themselves and create an heir with even one more magic circuit.
Once the magic circuits have been opened for the first time, the practitioner can switch them on and off at will.
Each practitioner visualizes the flipping of this switch in their own particular way. For Shirou, the image is that of a gun's firing hammer, while for Rin it is stabbing a heart with a knife.
This image tends to be related to how the circuits were opened for the very first time, so there even those who can only open their circuits through sexual arousal or self-harm.
By the way, Shirou's number of magic circuits is an unexpectedly high 27.
Rin, on the other hand, has 40 main circuits, while her sub-circuits are 30 each.
You need massive amount of power to deal with Servants since most of them have magic resistence or defensive NP/spell, the jewel's capacity basically increases her output.
but stilling your dick in a wormhole willingly is just stupid
why didnt the matous just engrave the foundation in fuyuki and why didnt they think deteroiation might be a problem when they moved?
Right back at you faggot.
>quoting shitpoor translations without reading comprehension
That's the side material faggot.
You could but it is a risky stuff to do, they probably messed up in the process and realized the problem too late.
That's the god damned side material.
Have the nip one if you want
It is quoted directly from the side material
those nerve circuits he makes are disspelled once he was done. If you could make new circuits every time you wanted every magus was spending day and night making them
And it is dangerous as hell to do, if Shirou messes up even a bit, it could easily kill him.
Are you actualy retarded?
It's also absolutly useless if you have circuits.
Because Zouken is the man who tosses too many crest worms at Kariya, and then laughs at him being a cripple for life.
Then laughs even more because he did it wrong.
Then he forces him to summon Lancelot, to benchmark Lancelot for use in 2-3 wars time, and let suffer from the intense prana drain.
Is it ever explained how exactly did Kariya get to avoid worms as a child? Obviously, everyone knows that he forsook his family and turned away from magic, but it's not like he was able to do this as a child, is it? What stopped Zouken from feeding him worms when he was as old as Sakura was in F/Z?
Because Kariya was a piece of shit not worth feeding worms to.
if bazett wasnt killed would she win the war with lancer?
And how long would it take before lancer fucked her?
Because Zouken didn't expect to be ready to have someone for the 4th grail war, and Kariya doesn't have a lot of potential, and he left the family long before the 4th started.
because every servant had magic resistance.
saber. rider and lancer have class magic resistance. berzerker could only be hurt by A rank and higher spells (which requires her to use the gems, which are compressed magic). She never faces assassin, caster is fucking caster so a normal modern mage cant stack up against that.Gil is Gil.
So she has magic but it is useless most of the time. Same with masters, The one she knew was ilya and she is strong aswell.
They can do a lot. Its just her own particular style.
Rin has a lot of prana production but a limited output. The gems are a great way at draining surplus prana and storing it in vessel with huge and instant output.
>a few magic missiles
>gand "curse" shots that should give someone a mild cold if it hits
>become literal bullets that blow holes in concrete.
>concrete catches a cold so hard it shatters
No, that's really serious magic right there. She is broken as fuck.
>Nasuverse is retarded
Wait until you see the fanbase
yeah but a magus would do it if those were permanent circuits. He does it because he doesnt know he has his own circuits. Those are easier to use and wont fuck you over if you lose concentration
Berserker is still the main road block, but she might have a chance at getting Illya if Lancer could keep Berserker busy.
Bazett Fraga McRemitz [Person]
Source: Fate/side material (2004-1-30), p.069
Lancer's original Master. Fate unknown.
She was a foreign magus dispatched by the Association, and summoned Lancer using a pair of rune stone earrings as the catalyst.
A beautiful woman dressed as a man, her abilities as a magus are top-notch.
She is an enforcer, tasked with the capture of sealing designated magi. Essentially, an existence similar to the executors of the Holy Church. She is extremely skilled in both sorcery and martial arts.
Though she probably would have ended up being a threat to Rin if she had been able to participate in the war, she was taken out prematurely by a surprise attack from Kotomine.
The reason for that is because she and Kotomine were actually old friends. Back when Kotomine was still an executor working for the Church, they often ran into each other on assignments and fought together as comrades.
So, when Kotomine, who until then had never relied on her even once, said he wanted to meet with her, Miss Bazett was secretly elated. With no reason to doubt him, she walked right into his trap.
She didn't even have time to call out Lancer, before Kotomine cleanly sliced off her left arm from behind and stole her command spells.
Afterward, he gave Lancer two commands.
The first was to make him accept Kotomine as his Master, while the second was to make him gather intelligence.
As for what the final command spell was used for, that's covered in the story itself
>If you could make new circuits every time you wanted every magus was spending day and night making them
If you could make 99% good replicas of noble phantasms by just spending some mana, every mage would do it. 99% of mages can't use Projection to create magic items.
But the reason he didn't have anyone ready for the 4th grail war was because he planned on having Kariya fight in that war and Kariya left the family so there was no one left to do it?
Actually her output far exceeds her reserves, she uses jewels because at the end of the day, going to bed with 40% reserves when you're going to have 100% in the morning is a waste.
The actual fanbase without secondaries is fucking small though.
>wont fuck you over if you lose concentration
They still would but not as hard
Also gems make it possible to release A rank magecraft with a simple one word command.
>Rin is vampires now
What in the actual fuck?
>if Lancer could keep Berserker busy.
With his luck, he'd trip over a rock while they're fighting and take the full brunt of Berserker's swing.
doesnt she draw blood to store mana that way? that seems pretty inefficient. wouldnt it be easier to store vaginal fluids instead?
>Rin has a lot of prana production but a limited output.
Somewhat the opposite actually. Her maximum output is almost double her current reserves.
She uses jewels because having 40% left when you go to bed is a waste of resources, since in the morning she'll have a 100% again.
The Guy who taught her family magecraft was a DAA.
She isn't, but her family have association with a certain vampire. You know Zelretch? He's a dead apostle ancestor that gave the Tohsaka family the blueprint for the Jewel Sword.
Compared to how edgy Tsukihime is wormpit isn't that bad.
So i guess you just pick up vampire habits if you learn from them or something?
I'm interested but what in Tsukihime is more edgy than the wormpit?
Tohsaka did say she's from the Schweinorg lineage.
Rape and chair.
Sleeping on leylines helps recover your body.
Especialy if your magic crest is closely connected to those lines.
How is it possible that Tohsakas are closely associated with the Church if Church hates both vampires and mages and Tohsakas are associated with both?
-Ciel raping and eating her entire village (including her mother and father) when posessed by Roa.
-Everything to do with SHIKI
-Shiki raping people
>Zelretch travels to Fuyuki
>Looks at his allies
>Zouken is getting Soul Alzheimers, and he doesn't want to appoint a heir
>Acht doesn't want any real heirs, and is making artificial humans by the mass, so he can guard his secret snow castle, which he also refuses to leave
>Tohsaka is a marital arts idiot
>Realize his choices are shit, and gives Tohsaka clan a free blueprint
Not as edgy as wormrape
Read the VN.
Because the Tohsaka family are long time Christians.
Because one of the Tohsakas was a secret Christan, during the age where Japan had a ban on religion.
Its also the only reason Zelretch talked to them.
Acht isn't that old.
I think he was mentioned to be the Einzbern master during the 3rd war.
Kinda fits his plans
I think you'll find that Ciel's entire backstory is more "edgy".
Anyways, you deserve a ban for using that buzzword seriously.
They're good diplomats and Christian. You could easily see them as being a family mediators between powerful but benign Vampires and the Church.
iirc the Tohsaka were some of the first Christians in japan, back when it was illegal to be christian in japan. Being generations long devout members of the church gets you points with them.
TYPE-MOON Fes. Official Pamphlet 10th Anniversary Q & A Booklet:
>Q: Why did Zelretch give the design of the Jewel Sword to Tohsaka Nagato, who had the least potential amongst his pupils?
>A: This student Zelretch took during his journey was mediocre, cold, and bipolar. Even Zelretch exclaimed "Hey, are you crazy or something?" However, Nagato was a good man who is "willing to sacrifice himself for a better future". Although the Einzberns and Makiris were brilliant, they were fundamentally evil. Nagato was mediocre but good at heart.
Zelretch concluded that "this House will probably never accomplish anything great, but at least they will never stray from the righteous path". He then gave the design to Nagato and told him "alright, it will be a struggle, but work towards this goal".
Where there is a will, there is a way. The Tohsaka lineage stubbornly followed the teachings of the great master, and finally, after the gentlemanly Tokiomi, accomplished the impossible.
assuming berzerker doesnt get a luckroll on his gay bulge zerker will probably be knockout for a sec allowing bazett to pop the loli
Fate/side material - Encyclopedia: Tohsaka Nagato [Person's name], p.067
Nagato Tohsaka [Person's name]
The head of the Tohsaka line back some 200 years ago when the Heaven's Feel ritual began.
At the request of Justeaze and Makiri Zolgen (Matou Zouken), he took part in the ritual.
He was really a secret follower of a certain foreign faith, but one day, a strange old fart showed up and led him astray. And so, from that time on, he became devoted to the world of thaumaturgy.
So as a result, the Tohsaka line has some influence in the Church and has gotten some pretty fine treatment in the Association. The reason the family's managing Fuyuki is because they have pipelines with both organizations.
Nagato saw both thaumaturgy and the martial arts as being equal. As such he had the idea of grasping Akasha by passing through the state of nothingness (from bujutsu). Which would be the point recruited by the Einzberns and Machiri.
Just by being Rin's ancestor, he's quite the goof-up (it must be the genes). Nagato was also the least promising of Zelretch's apprentices. Apparently, the magus potential was really in his daughter. She was also more helpful in the construction of the Greater Grail it seems.
Zouken wasn't old back then and he had pretty impressive goals.
Acht hadn't even been born.
Nagato was indeed an idiot, but Zel found him awesome.
>Zouken wasn't old back then
300 years old
>Grail Ritual is 200 years old
>Zouken is 300
Damn, Being Bazett is suffering. She never gets to show off how strong she is.
Wasn't he 300 years old 200 years ago?
No Zouken was 300 when the ritual was conducted the first time.
During F/SN he's 500+
>Its also the only reason Zelretch talked to them.
Not really, see:
TYPE-MOON Fes. Official Pamphlet 10th Anniversary Q & A Booklet:
>Q: Zelretch's pupils seemed to have all been turned into wrecks, so Tohsaka Nagato must be a wreck as well?
>A: If the person is accepted as a "pupil of a Magician", he will be turned into a wreck, but if the person is accepted as a "pupil of a magus", then everything is fine. Nagato could not even be called a "pupil of a magus". From Zelretch's perspective, Nagato was but a follower whom he looked out for every now and then. ....They met during a journey, and Zelretch taught Nagato something as payment for the hotel bill. That is their level of relationship. It is sort of like a supervising teacher who is observing the students doing experiments from afar.
If the Tohsakas were such wholesome people, it makes you wonder why Tokiomi was such a cock
500 years of inbreeding.
Was that so? I just remembered him being head over heels for Justeaze and figured he couldn't have been that old.
He just followed the mage mindset.
"…What I got so angry about was how your dad never did anything against that.
'Magic' of a magus isn't just his magic.
Magic is something passed down from parent to child for many generations. It's the 'sum of their life's work'. The responsibility isn't just yours."
"So the first condition for being taught magic is that you will pass it on to later generations. A child born into a magus's family instantly becomes a successor and an inheritor.
We are born for that reason, and we also die for that reason."
"A magus's child isn't human from the start.
No, it is the duty of the 'magus' to change what is born human into something else through many years and hard training.
…That's why your dad isn't a magus. Your dad chose to be a parent over being a magus."
She looks away as she says so.
I don't know why Tohsaka's mad.
What Tohsaka thought when she was raised in this house…
How much she sacrificed to train as the daughter of a family of magi…
I can't put myself in her place, no matter how hard I try.
"Tohsaka. Is that why you considered me your enemy? Because I don't have the mindset of a magus?"
"...That's right. It's not that I hate you, but I can't approve of you.
Except he has a foreign mother.
It's totally the other Edelfelt from the third war who "disappeared".
Rin has shown the following magic abilities:
>Using small scouting familiars
>Creating magical ribbons (I can't remember what the fuck they do though)
>Boundary field detection, creation and unmaking (partial)
>Creating a new heart to save Shirou's life
>Fire magic (gem)
>Ice magic (gem)
>Wind magic (gem)
>We know she can use the remaining two elements.
>That weird shit she did to Shirou to help him control Archer's arm in HF.
>Neutralizing Caster's magic
>Eating a jewel to prevent her body to be crushed by Basaka
>Second sorcery (after getting the sword from Shirou)
>maybe more, my memory is shit.
>The Mage Association is infamous for the amount of power struggle and backstabbing in it. Don't be surprised at how low they can stoop. Remember, the sealing designation was supposed to be a practice to help a mage's research under the guidance of the association, but Mages often use it as a way of getting rid of people or getting control of them.
>If Sakura didn't inherit the magic crest, she would be used by the Magi Association (due to her potential and unique attribute). It is not unheard of for the one unlucky enough to not be the family heir to receive the sealing designation (since they don't have the crest, they don't have much ability or influence to resist it. And basically no else but the family would stand for them).
>It was choice of Sakura becoming a political tool or potentially a labrat, or become a Mage family heir and actually has the power or influence to have a say in magi society and to prevent a possible sealing designation. It is the same reason why the Magi Association wouldn't touch Rin unless they have the proper excuse. Having a magic crest is like the first line of defense against Magi Association abuse.
>Creating a new heart to save Shirou's life
That's healing which is part of Earth I think
I finally understand why Rin and Sakura look identical to the Edelfelt sisters in HA. Well, shit.
Doesn't that make Rin and Luvia cousins?
How was he a cock?
It's not like he knew Sakura is going to get worms. He just thought he was doing her a favor by letting her be raised as the heir of another extremely powerful family and be raised as a magus, while if she stayed a Tohsaka, he would have to make one of his daughter a magus and another just a worthless muggle who isn't going to inherit anything.
>The Matou family was one of the 3 families that furnished the Holy Grail ritual. They were of a long lineage and one of the few mage families in Japan. Compared to the Einzberns, they were more close to the Tohsaka family in terms of distance and amount of contact. Although the three families would oppose each other in the grail war, they would still work with each other outside of it; this was as much to keep the real purpose of the grail war under wraps as it is to make sure the odds are subtlety stacked against the outsiders in the ritual.
>The Matou lineage was from a foreign land and was incompatible with the land, thus each generation have less and less overall magic circuits. This means eventually they will lose all their power unless >something is done. Thus giving Sakura to the Matou as an heir was a way of building relationships with the family and to expand the Tohsaka’s influence for the Holy Grail Ritual. Yes, it’s a typical asshole Mage behavior, but it is a choice Tokiomi made after much consideration.
>As for cutting off contact with Sakura, when you send someone to another family to be an heir, especially a Mage family (they typically jealously guard their secrets); its usually poor manner to act like the child is still part of your family. At worst, it would be like you are using that child as a spy for your family.
she went tho whores college
You don't understand how Christening works, do you?
He simply forgot that Zouken has not appointed a heir in more than 400 years.
And thats very odd, of a clan where they have a method to pass down multiple crests.
Fuck, I forgot healing. She uses it a few times in the VN.
>If the family opposes the Magi Association's decision, they would pretty much lose their place in that society. And that would also means Rin loses her chance to play a role in the Magi Association and have her potential limited. This means saving Sakura from that order would likely screw over all future generations.
>If the Tohsaka decided to just give Sakura to a normal family to have 'normal life'. It would just give the Magi Association an excuse to take her away. They would claim she would otherwise have too much wasted potential, and yes they were likely to know of Sakura's potential because the Tohsaka's are the custodians of Fuyuki lands, and Tokiomi tends to be an old fashioned Mage that prefers to follow customs, while Rin didn't have the mindset to follow the cold hearted methods that being a Mage requires (It is one of the reason Kiritsugu doesn't want Shirou to be a typical mage due to customs that requires them to have mind of steel) and with Rin's personality its means she was less likely to follow every custom especially after the events of the grail war.
>To Tokiomi who have worked hard all his life despite his lack of talents, it would be an even crueler thing to not give two (mage) daughters the opportunity to succeed (and it is not unheard of for children to fight over the rights for the magic crest, like with Touko and Aoko).
second degree I think
>Other than that, Tokiomi wants Sakura to get used to treating the Matous like her family. He expects when Sakura became old enough to hold responsibilities, then they can freely meet as people from different family.
>However, Tokiomi was expecting the Matou to go through their usual process of preparing Sakura for the role of the heir, regardless of whether the fact the Matou uses worms was known to outsiders or not, the methods Zouken used on Sakura was actually intended for Zouken’s secret plan as it involves altering Sakura’s body extensively both to make her more of a Matou mage type and so that her offspring would have what Zouken need have an edge for the next generation Grail War (he didn’t expect the 5th grail war to start so soon, and was planning on waiting for the next one too before an event in HF made him change his mind). Because of Zouken’s conspiracy that may betray the three families, the more intrusive worms method was actually something that outsiders were unlikely to know about, and it is unlikely Kariya could reveal the exact process to the Tohsaka family considering Zouken could kill him on command using the worms.
>Remember, magic are inherently dangerous, and many mages died from accidents and side effects. Thus all mage were taught that they must always prepare for death. This was like one of the first thing Shirou learned, and every night he risks killing himself immediately if he messes up his exercise in the shed.
Rins fathers mothers siblings daugthers dauther is Luvia.
Not her Fathers sibling daugther.
>sending your daughter to the house of a creepy centuries old freak of nature
WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG
Isn't using Shirou's projection magic kinda cheating for the Tohsaka to accomplish their goal of recreating Zeldretch's sword?
No, because he can't replicate it properly. It's a good effort, but it's still a rank or more down from the actual thing.
To use it you still have to wrap your mind around how the second magic works.
Rin states in the epilogue that she would be able to recreate it if she had the materials.
It's also likely that she will be able to create it some time after UBW or Fate
Not to be mean, but is English not your first language?
>Rins fathers mothers
Rin's paternal grandmother.
And you can just say Rin and Luvia are second cousins.
I think you missed the point of that scene. Its not a replication, its a 1:1 copy. Of course, Rin, like always, messed up badly in how to use it.
Zeldretch blueprint is pretty good.
Only a couple of characters are involved in a short wormrape bit in FSN, in TH the entire VN and all of the cast are like that.
Its not. In my language, cousin only applies to first degree. We don't have a word for 2nd degree.
She needs the Matou magic crest applied to be permanently part of their mage line. It was also why Kariya couldn't just run away with her at that point, the crest would need to be removed.
The truth is, I can recreate the gem sword.
I comprehended the blueprint and the theory during that fight, so I can copy the sorcery if I have the needed material and time.
Well, I need a lot of money for it, so it's nothing I can accomplish in tens of years.
Shirou didn't use the blueprint, he used the memory inside of Illya (who was partially based on the original head of the Einzbern at the first ritual) to analyze and create the sword.
No, Illya even told Shirou not to try to read the second magic.
What's the deal with magical inheritance bullshit, anyways?
The reason Waver Velvet was a magus was because his grandmother was a lover of a magus and he taught her some basics, so that made her eligible to start her own mage line.
But Sakura can't form her own branch of the family/start a completely new mage family because she was already born to one?
What's the logic behind all this?
So apparently 1st hgw Asassin could kill people by holding hands
She's clearly lewdest Servant.
Also, fucking A+ AGI
I never said that Shirou was able to understand the second magic, but that Rin had to be able to understand it to use it
We been over this since the VN was translated.
He used a part of the blueprint(which is pretty shit, since Shirou can't read mage), memory, Ilya using her blood special(Wish), and gems, so they could have a physical weapon instead of a degraded projection.
You are misunderstand. You build the family inheritance using the magic crest.
>What's the logic behind all this?
Sakura had so much potential and a rare affinity that she would have been "protected" by the clocktower.
It's also called sealing designation
Why is she such a bitch?
Also Nasu is retarded.
Sealing Designation is a organization that bully orphan mages with potential.
Inheritance is important because a mage can write down his entire lifework in any crest, but he can't do that once he is dead. So you can only pass down the dead persons stuff, by transfering said crest to the next person.
She train from child.
I don't think I can handle 22 more weeks of this shitposting.
No, Rin in HF at the time didn't understand that his projections comes from his reality marble which was why she prepared all the useless materials that Shirou didn't need.
Shirou doesn't need any materials, he only need to analyze the memory from Illya.
>What the fuck means an 'educated' prostitute?
Isn't Zouken technically a dhampire or some shit?
If he would eat humans more regularly he would be a Dead Apostle
Shirou doesn't need any of the materials, yes. BUT: That also means it disappears once its being stop fed mana.
Shirou still had to spend the gems, so Rin could get a physical Kaleidoscope.
Just because you are immortal, and eat people, doesn't mean the church will classify you are a vampire.
Because he wasn't a good son.
Hope you enjoy 36 then, because it's splitcour
No, he is only referred to as a vampire.
Vampires in Nasuverse refers to any blood drinker. Dead Apostles are the traditional vampires. That's why Arcueid is called a vampire, despite being nothing like a traditional vampire.
Isn't Nero Chaos also classified as Dead Apostle (Ancestor)?
This is retarded
No, Shirou's projections can last almost permanently (though it is harder for NP), except he needs to pour a lot more power into making it last (which makes using the arm more dangerous).
Hence why in the Fate route, Rin rants about all his permanent 'projections' in the hut.
Because low gens are expected to be useless and are allowed to be left to grow in peace.
Sakura had immense potential, far too much to be left alone when she could be put to better use by someone of actual worth from a fine family.
Going solo she wouldn't have any political weight and would only be used.
Nope. It was a normal projection.
None of the prepared shit was used.
>Hence why in the Fate route, Rin rants about all his permanent 'projections' in the hut.
But Rin is wrong anon. Shirou can't create permanent projections, because it doesn't work like regular projection.
I wonder if they're gonna animated all the people getting eaten by worms and stuff in HF movie(s)
>she has violet eyes that she utilizes to see
top fucking kek
He is a dead apostle, you know undead, only he have expanded his function.
A general term for those that suck human blood. Refers specifically to the Dead Apostles, or those that have become bloodsuckers because of them.
The vampires in Tsukihime extract human blood to maintain their own flesh. If, during this process, the vampire injects their own blood into their human prey, that human will be unable to peacefully pass away. For a normal person, death will still find them before long regardless. However, on rare occasions, if the victim has high physical potential and the capacity of their soul is excellent, they will remain in the world of the living.
Afterward, their corpse is interred, and left alone for several years. During this time their brain melts, their soul is liberated from the cage of the body, and finally they arise as a kind of living dead called a "ghoul".
As a ghoul, they feed on the corpses sleeping in the graves around them to supplement their own missing flesh, restoring their physical body little by little. After many years of this, they will eventually regain their brain and intelligence. At this stage, they can finally be called a "vampire".
However, although this new vampire can move by their own will, they cannot escape from the rule of their sire's blood. Finally, after spending decades acclimating to life in the darkness, the vampire will begin attacking humans to create servants of their very own, while remaining subservient to the vampire that made them.
In order to obstruct this infinite cycle, the Church created the Burial Agency, Inquisitors that exist to slay Dead Apostles. The Burial Agency's goal is the utter eradication of all vampires, and the sealing of the 27 Ancestors that made them.
At that point she was complete shattered mentally she was that way until she witnessed the shirou jump and even then she didn't really start gaining life again until the year after Zouken ordered her to spy on shirou.
>BUT: That also means it disappears once its being stop fed mana.
Things projected don't disappear unless broken or his internal image contradicts itself.
It's the opposite. Normal gradation air doesn't last, Shirou's does.
That's true for Shirou, but a normal projection by a normal mage does disappear eventually.
>Listen to Rin "Wrong about most stuff" Tohsaka
I thought Shirou's ability was that he isn't actually projecting anything, but just giving physical form to something he already carries with him? Like using your debit card to get money out of an ATM?
Or do I have it backwards, and it takes mana to pull things out of UBW but not to actually create them? Hence why UBW exists in the first place, so he can sword the fuck out of everything without using mana.
Except Tohsaka was seeing left over 'projection' in Shirou's hut that lasted weeks and still have not disappeared.
So Shirou is just a special snowflake?
No, it is more an application of his reality marble. He doesn't really project, so much as pull it from his inner world.
>Shirou says his things don't disappear
>Durr y u listen to Rin?
Reading comprehension is a wonderful skill, anon.
Ah, that might very well be true but we don't know shit about normal Gradation Air since only Shirou uses it.
Reality Marbles are extremly rare so yes.
Shirou projects differently. Shirou "Projects" his internal reality into the outside world, it's a function of his Reality Marble on a small scale. It's called Projection for simplicity, but it's completely different to Projection by other mages.
Considering that he's one of the few people with a reality marble, and he has a higher-than-average circuit count despite being born to nobodies, I'd say so.
Just imagine if Kiritsugu had given him time hax.
The problem with projection is that you need a fuck ton of details right to make it worth anything. The human mind can't handle that.
UBW acts as a reference library and acts as a huge shortcut to stuff that is inside it.
Hence why the projections in his shed that don't disappear are still "empty". They're copies, but their history and background has been perfectly copied.
However Noble Phantasm projections don't seem to last long unless Shirou/Archer really pours effort/power into it.
why didnt kariya tell tokiomi about the worms
>born to nobodies
You can't know that.
She also deleted Shirou's memories about the War in a Bad End.
But much of it have to do with Avalon changing his affinity and origin.
>want to show this cute innocent chinese cartoon to little sister
What if shirou did need avalong like in prisma
Tohsaka doesn't know of any magi who could be his parents and they died in the Fuyuki area where she presides, so clearly they weren't very relevant.
>tfw I read the VN in less than a week years ago and my memory is so poor, that aside from knowing main events I might as well be a secondary at this point
the sound alone should drive you insane
how she manages to stay sane is beyond me
Memory manipulation is extremly standard and only complete idiots fuck it up.
It's not a matter of power, never has been. Yes, they disappear, because the world's corrective impulses start acting against them, but with a good mental image it remains just fine.
Like in Answer, Shirou is completely dried of magical energy, but by focusing and clearing his image with the "My body is made out of blades..." line, his Kanshou went from being warped and fading back to a 100%.
Hell, it was Shirou's only projection to stand up to repeated blows against Archer and he had no juice left.
True, but it's always possible they were from out of town, or they were intentionally low key, or even that Tokiomi did know of them, but died without passing on any information because reasons.
In that I cannot pluck out knowledge of details without resorting to an external source, just like a secondary would.
I am pretty sure the reason why his NP projections don't last is because once broken he denies their existence and thus disappear.
Because Kariya believes Tokiomi is a jackass who doesn't give a crap about his wife or daughter, that's what makes him annoyingly childish or Chunni. To him Tokiomi is the evil guy who needs to be defeated so he can rescue his love interest and her daughters. It's so laughable pathetic that's why Kotomine had so much fun breaking him.
>Other than pleasing old men for money
i'm the cancer of this board.
He might as well have been the child of magi who traveled there to observe HGW and got btfo or Zelretch's vat-grown experiment.
That was years before her time, though. She didn't know shit back then.
Personally I think Shirou and Uryuu are somehow related.
This Chair comes to mind.
Because Zouken is an asshole and he thought it was more fun that way.
His soul is rotting and dying.
He was already over 300 years old before the first Heaven's Feel.
Because Zouken isn't a filthy magic thief.
>Tohsaka pleasing old men for money
Raiga route, when?
You need to re-read and lurk in threads more. I have read Fate twice, UBW 4 times, and HF twice.
Alaya is like the magic DMCA, so it wrecks White Man's pirated swords.
Projections aren't fragile as shit, Shirou just sucks. Archer's swords have never shattered in the VN, not against Lancer, not against Saber and not against Saber Alter.
Shirou just lacks delusion.
>Raiga route, when?
Raiga only gives money to Shirou for getting half-naked.
so he needs to be more chuuni
>hardly some free time to browse /a/ and watch Fate
>no time at all to reread the VN
Fuck this, I want my neet life back.
But it did shatter, like in the fight against Lancer.
Raiga route with Rin as protagonist, when?
Also, Raiga only gives Shirou money if he looks after Taiga and when he wins wrestling matches between the two of them.
Is origin set at birth or did Shirou pick it up when he survived being at the ground zero of an excaliblast?
Archer the chuuniest. He's so chuuni that it carries over to HF.
>Ahh! My arm, settle down, my arm! Enemies draw near, my power is going out of control!
It's set at birth, but can be changed. Shirou's origin changing to Sword was a freak accident that wouldn't be possible under normal circumstances though.
>Archer's swords have never shattered in the VN
Shirou was basically 'reborn' in the that fire.
>swords never shattered
No they didn't.
His Origin was always sword and that quote is a mistranslation. He was a freak accident in the sense that everything aligned with the origin,sheath changing his affinity to sword, and having enough magic circuits.
Origins are set at birth.
However, something in Shirou "died" in the great fire, which allowed the scabbard to greatly alter his makeup, notably his origin.
The standard KnK Shiki dying nonsense from nasu.
freak accident being avalon shoved inside him
He dismissed them, because apparently it's more efficient to make a new one than sustaining the swords for longer than needed.
Except it did, see:
Shirou always had the Origin "Sword", he only got his affinity of "Sword" and useable circuits after having Avalon shoved into him.
Endou has best Origin, though.
And again at 4:38
Rin gives an explanation of how Projection are stronger if he magi believes so, but I like the chuuni explanation beter.
Read the fight again.
It's not "hit so hard with lance that weapons break", that's Saber's thing with Mana Burst. It's "stab and force a guard wide open with a sideways motion.".
>when you werent allowed to kill masters
yeah what a waste
No, what changed was his Affinity not origin. His origin was always sword.
>Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?
>A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.
>since sword is becoming his origin
This is the damn mistranslation. Thank you for bringing it up.
lolno ufotable fucked up
>There is no effective way of parrying a lance with a sword.
>A strong rebuff only results in a stronger counterattack, and a weak rebuff does not create any openings.
>"…Twenty-seven. I've disarmed you that many times, yet you still have more."
Not a single one was destroyed.
The swords shattered 27 times because Archer dismissed them, I never once implied Lancer broke them
Except Nasu approved.
That doesn't say much, you can't argue using semantics if you're looking at a translation.
Either get me the original moon and teach me the moon or find an actual argument.
There's a difference between saying "they shattered because they were dismissed" and "they were dismissed/disappeared because they were shattered".
The latter never happens to Archer.
So, do go ahead and show me where he did approve that.
While you're at it, prove that Nasu even know English.
see the second Q&A.
Except original novel.
Or are you saying that Lancer hits harder than Saber Alter, when the Shadow was holding Archer down so he could only receive the full power of the blow? His swords were fine then.
And you know what else is Nasu approved? Rho Aias in F/E against Lancer.
The VN didn't grab your attention so well, you probably found it boring.
Because he's involved in the process for the TV show, and he also made constant feeds about the scenes when it aired. He would have complained if it wasn't the case.
so shirou could only be healed because avalon was used? How how did avalon work if saber was gone?
>And you know what else is Nasu approved? Rho Aias in F/E against Lancer.
No, that was just game mechanics. Because every player servant needs shields for all the NPs later on.
If male mages sell sperm as they have mana, can female mages sell love juices for the same reason?
So, how does that prove that Nasu knows English?
If you insist on using that translation, we have a different problem.
>sword is becoming his origin
That means that his origin isn't sword and never was sword in the first place.
>less than a week
read the VN on your phone. For me that is the only way to get time
Avalon is like a battery. When Saber is around, she recharges it. When she leaves, it stops being recharged, but holds what charge it has for a while. Kiritsugu used the last of its power to heal him.
Why didn't Sakura just run away like Matou whatshisname in F/Z?
She had a Crest Worm inside her.
You're a fucking moron.
And swords shattering is a more visually impressive way of showing a fight. Like how in the UBW movie Archer's swords shattered halfway into the fight.
Never once has Archer's swords been shattered.
crest worm frodo
Except Shirou shatters Gilgamesh's NPs.
Even the real NPs are not unbreakable
>So, how does that prove that Nasu knows English?
That have nothing to do with the argument.
Actually never mind it is becoming.
what's that mean that she can't run from Zouken nor ask somebody to help her because he's always listening and watching her? Holy hell that's creepy.
Yes. An unbreakable sword does not exist. But Archer's delusions are on the level where trying to break them is not too different from trying to break the real one.
>Recent wiki activity
Because she enjoyed being sexually pleasured by sentient dicks
It was definitely being damaged in his fight against Rin Saber.
>And that should not take long.
>The magical energy in Saber's sword scrapes away Kanshou and Bakuya with each attack.
>The twin swords cannot take any more, and Archer's arms should be powerless by now.
Okay, good point. But they still didn't shatter and Saber has a special notification for being a weapon breaker with her Prana Burst.
Because if zouken couldn't forcibly re-wire her into a matou magus, he was just going to fuck her later to produce a matou magus.
Would she still be a good girl if she was pure and non wormslut?
no because shes possessive as fuck
I hate possessive people
He's a worm that walks. His magic is worms and he is worms and the worms are him. He used to be human at one point, but he put his soul into another vessel (becoming a 'dead apostle', a thing similar to a vampire) so he could prolong his 'life'.
The only reason the church hasn't fucked him up is because he keeps a relatively low profile and doesn't murder the fuck out of everything like some DA's do.
I think she wouldn't have the same taste in men if she wasn't given to the Matou's.
The F/SN UBW anime clearly showed the twin swords shattering.
And Lancer's spear didn't shatter when Saber attacked it with full force either.
>sword is becoming his origin
>That means that his origin isn't sword and never was sword in the first place.
So what is his Origin? Also doesn't that mean that you can change origins in life, since apparently it is still changing.
>So what is his Origin?
>Also doesn't that mean that you can change origins in life, since apparently it is still changing.
It does, which pretty much contradicts literally everything concerning Origins.
She would at least notice Shirou if she still saw Shirou do his high jump, right? I doubt she would be as assertive as Rin but she would be a lot more outgoing at least.
>It does, which pretty much contradicts literally everything concerning Origins.
Because magi are largely constrained by their origins and their element. If you're like rin whose origin is gems and is enough of an exceptional prodigy to have all 5 elements (earth, fire, wind, water and 'spirit') all of your magic will be done via gemstones, but you may have a gem that makes fire or etc.
If you have really specific elements and origins your magic is really specific... sometimes a particularly powerful origin can overwrite your elements, like shirou with Sword and Sword - which leaves him unable to do even the most basic magic other magi could do, but allows him to do absolutely retarded goofy specialized magic (look guys I can make a bajillion swords for next to no magical expenditure!), because the universe cannot distinguish him from being any and all swords.
Your origin is literally the metaphysical connection you have to the 'root' (the source of *ALL* things), it will affect your personality, your actions, your experiences and your magic (even more so if you're awakened to it). If your origin is death, that is literally the role you play in the universe - you are the one who knocks.
I'm not entirely certain what zoukens origin is, but it has something to do with insects and vermin. Which is why his magic is worms/insects and when he used magic to make himself 'immortal' his body became replaced with worms.
No it doesn't.
The orientation at the time that an event occurred.
The origin is what defines the existence as an existence. In magery, it also is used under the meaning of alignment.
The absoluteness called Origin
If alignment determines the root of one's magic, then even deeper than that, is the origin which determined the root of one's existence. The origin is not only for magi, but is the orientation that all things are born with and it's existence itself is thought absolutely necessary.
Those magi with an origin that is strongly expressed outwardly are sometimes removed from the normal alignments and there are times that the origin itself becomes the alignment. Most of those magi exhibit their talents as extreme specialists.
Because of that, it's said that they can reach higher grounds than normal magi.
Emiya Shirou's origin is "sword" and his alignment as a magus is also "sword". Because he doesn't have one of the five great elements as an alignment, he's not good at magic using the five great elements. In exchange, he can manifest Reality Marble "Unlimited Blade Works."
Tohsaka origin (a thing that tends to run in families) is jewels/gemstones. All of their magic is predicated upon it.
Matou/Makiri magic is different, has something to do with worms.
why didnt he just become a normal vampire?
Thank you for supporting my point.
Do you even have a clue how the process of becoming a DA works?
Wasn't the reason she saw his High jump because she was wandering around after being raped? If that never happens then no High jump watching right?
Because he's not a retard. Get other people to do your dirty work for you.
Because it is not eternal, Roa specifically choose to find another form of 'immortality' even after becoming a Dead Apostle.
how do we find our origin IRL?
>If you're like rin whose origin is gems
No her origin is imaginary numbers.
>Your origin is literally the metaphysical connection you have to the 'root' (the source of *ALL* things), it will affect your personality, your actions, your experiences and your magic (even more so if you're awakened to it).
If Shirou's origin is the sword, and it affects his personality, why is he the least sharpest character in the game?
No it doesn't, work on your reading comprehension.
Because the church actively hunts and kills them. And their methods of sustaining themselves are more high profile than what zouken is currently doing, though it's getting to the point where he almost needs to sustain himself on others.
>three great Mage clans
>two nips and one German
Why do nips love their ww2 mental masturbation so much?
Amerifat pls go.
In nasuverse your origin is literally the 'defining moment' of your life.
Swords aren't sharp
It supports that >>115276457 is bullshit.
Because he's a tool. duh.
It's actualy 1 nip, 1 russian and 1 german
Well swords also have a dull side.
No idea, Sakura was doomed from the moment she was born. The magus lifestyle means no matter what she cannot be with her family because they only allow one heir and the other to be either sent to another family or thrown into the normal world. Sakura has way too much hidden talent for any true magus to simply put her into a normal lifestyle and Father Tohsaka was hoping she''d be able to live as a magus then amass alot of clout to become the next Matou head. As far as being a Magus that plan could of been a good one however what he failed to take into account was how non- devotedly magus-like the Matou's are as well as how his servant and student are chaotic. That was his downfall he was too arrogant (another magus staple) and too ignorant to human emotions to see the flaws in his plan.
I wish Origins were real and we could measure them.
I want to know my Origin
I've seen a lot of things that say it's gems, though I have heard of this contradiction before, I don't think there's anything to cite for it as nasuverse doesn't like telling people origins a lot of the time. Sakura had a different origin than the usual tohsaka one though (which is part of why she was pawned off).
>Sakura had a different origin than the usual tohsaka one though
You mean affinity.
Everyone is chuuni bro
You're origin a shit, anon.
>The orientation at the time that an event occurred.
>The origin is what defines the existence as an existence. In magery, it also is used under the meaning of alignment.
Now what occurred? Shirou basically everything about his old self and was 'reborn', and this was during the time he had the sheathe implanted in him.
Nothing about >>115277656
stated that it can't be changed.
I wish I could be. ;_;
Is Sakura in Heaven Feel the most powerful character in the Fate universe?
She ate Gilgamesh and he couldnt do anything about it.
Remember that scene in fate/zero where tokiomi decides to give rin a magic lesson... In a room full of gems? where she ends up making a gemstone creature (IIRC it was a dolphin?). If I could find a link I'd link it, but it's pretty heavyhanded in what it's saying - tohsaka magic is gems.
Yes? So? You can do magic with whatever Origin as long as you have the affinity for it.
That's her trait, it doesn't mean they all have gems as their origin. Kerrytugu's origin wasn't time.
Hey guys, a glass window broke on my hand's back when I was going to close it and it will probably left a scar. Can I summon a servant now?
Fate universe also includes the other stuff Nasu has written, so no. That would be Gaia.
You can summon a trained medical professional if the cut was deep enough to sever a major blood vessel.
You'll need a catalyst to help summon the right professional. A cheque worth over $10,000 usually works.
His families origin was binding, His was binding and severing. His family was working on a means of becoming immortals so they could try and find the route - they 'bound' things to be timeless...
They severed their connection to the flow of time, actually.
Shitposting, as is for most of /a/
What if your Origin were GaySex? Would you want Araya to awaken that shit on you?
They were never shattered in the VN.
Because swords are sharp but also dense.
You cant know your origin unless you're awakened to it, and being awakened to it causes you to essentially lose free will, it because almost impossible to stray from your 'origin'.
Except they did, like Archer's fight against Saber and Shirou's fight against Gilgamesh (both shattered).
Archer's swords never shattered. Shirou is shit at it so of course he fucks up constantly.
Shirou isn't being contested here, read the quote chain.
>Shirou just sucks. Archer's swords have never shattered in the VN...
If Illya, Kuro, and Miyu are all Grails does that mean their Origin will be "Grail?/3rd Magic"
Does that mean her UBW is actually UGW?
Will they defeat Gilgamesh by summoning Enkidu?
some homeless people dissapear, how is the church going to know its a vampire? people dissapear all the time.
The anime is canon now. Nasu is embarrassed at how juvenile the Visual Novel is now. UFOtable's show is his chance to make all his changes and will be regarded as canon, and the setup for the remake
In other news, Rho Aias can block Gae Bolg stab.
It very quickly becomes a lot more than 'some homeless people disappear' and it turns into 'some villages disappear, and people are magically brainwashed into thinking that there never was a village in the first place'
>mean their Origin will be "Grail?/3rd Magic"
>Lancer stabs Shirou before materializing
>a remake is announced
Rho Aias can stop EA.
Actually, why don't servants go into their spectral forms and retreat whenever they're getting their shit pushed in?
Except Shirou pretty much mastered projections in UBW.
and since the routes are opened up linearly, the prologue didn't want to completely what Archer is capable of, they didn't even talk about him projecting anything at all in Fate route. Nasu want to hide Archer's ability by making you think that the swords special ability were always returning to Archer's hand. But this became irrelevant for the visual medium for multiple reasons.
Also Nasu have input on UBW tv show and he wrote new materials for the show. He also commented on each scene on Twitter. If the sword was breaking and it wasn't supposed to, Nasu would have talked about it.
Rho Aias can stop Excalibur.
Type Moon 10th Anniversary Q&A
>Q: What is the reason of the Mana depletion in the world of Extra?
>A: Gonna leak you some info. It is the "what if scenario" caused by a "certain ritual" that occurred in the 1970's. This ritual is not expected to happen until the year 20XX.
What are her stats, NPs, skills and abilities?
I must know
No he hasn't. Even in Sparks Liner High he's still lagging a bit behind Archer's skill.
Illyas Origin is "Cup"
Much like he commented on Shirou not cleaning the blood away and how painless his magic training was?
He hasn't commented on how Shirou's eye of the mind isn't shown in the anime. In the VN he does all kinds of tacticool decisions like "If I jump out the window, he will immediately attack, therefore I'll block as fast as I can!".
Obviously 7 petals can.
I honestly wonder how many times Shinji gave Sakura a dicking
I mean it's a miracle that Shirou got any pleasure out of throwing his hotdog down that hallway
there must have even been an echo
Why doesn't Archer and Shirou use more neat techniques like Trace on Overedge and shit like that?
Is this another retcon? Didn't the first war only have the knight classes which is why the grail could not complete?
killing defenseless chairs
>how many times
He rapes her everyday for a decade, honing his dick.
The only time he stops is during Fate and HF which he dies. In UBW he does it again while Rin, Saber and Shirou fuck like rabbits in London.
Since middle school so plenty by now.
Shirou was constantly gaining Archer's projection experience from Archer.
"I guess it's a miscalculation.
I've heard of magic that lets you acquire skills from the past by possessing yourself with a previous self… It seems your skills improve the more you fight me."
"Haa, haa, haa, ha"
My shoulders heaving, I prepare myself for his attack.
"Then my projection shouldn't be the only thing you got from me. That face. Seeing that nasty face of yours, you saw it too, Emiya Shirou?"
And then after a while, Shirou managed to trace K&B that didn't break against Archer's swords.
HF Shirou hadn't mastered projection because he was relying on Archer's arm.
Because Shirou is supposed to be weak. Nine Lives is already so BS that Archer should be soloing wars in days.
>but but muh rank down
Yeah, but who says he would have to mirror his enemy? No, he'd read their weapon like Gil sees through people naturally, find out their weakspot and apply their hard counter skill like Gil does, only with pirated skills.
You have no idea what Eye of the Mind (True) is.
It is something built from a lifetime of experience.
How Illya says it is pretty cute actually
Nine Lives attack rank is based on the rank of the weapons, the Axe sword isn't a high ranked weapon so it wouldn't get past god hand.
Strength only increases weapon damage.
In UBW Shirou never managed to make a KB pair that stood up the Archer. His last pair got wrecked, but then Shirou managed to keep the Kanshou in shape and win.
>Kanshou and Bakuya cannot block his Noble Phantasms.
>Archer should be able to with his technique, but I don't have that much skill.
That's pre-UBW realization. I don't know about after he understands his RM, but before that at the very least he was nowhere near Archer in skill.
Couldn't Archer contact Gaia when the Shadow popped up and just rape it as a counter guardian?
I'm not talking about the attack itself, I'm talking about copying skills. In Berserker's CM profile under the Nine Lives NP section, it says that as Berserker the skill is sealed and he cannot use it.
The Axesword was a pillar in a temple before the summoning, certainly not a weapon Herakles would have ever used.
Therefore, Shirou read the weapon and copied a skill that had never been used with the damn weapon.
That's like, handing someone a butterknife and then knowing their bank codes because they could theoretically punch it in with the butterknife.
At B rank.
The actual skill description is as follows
>Eye of the Mind (True) (心眼（真）, Shingan (Shin)?) is a heightened capacity for observation, refined through experience.
Note the "refined through experience".
He's always been calm and collected in a fight, observing and thinking ahead.
Yeah I am sure he has Alaya on speed dial.
No, his last projection lasted, and it wasn't Kanshou and Bakuya, it was a longsword.
No, and you are taking shit from the wiki
Eye of the Mind (True): B
A danger-avoidance ability that utilises the intelligence collected up to the current time as the basis, in order to predict the opponent’s activity and change the current situation. This is not a result of talent, but an overwhelming amount of combat experience. A weapon wielded by none other than a mortal, gained through tenacious training. Using Eye of the Mind, Emiya was able to successfully counter Cú Chulainn’s thrusts that were invisible to the eye.
Even with Rank B Eye of the Mind (True), Emiya was unable to see through Emiya Shirou’s passion-infused strike which put “ideal” on the line.
And even IF it was, Nasu can't comment on it or it would be a spoiler.
He still can't use Overedge without Archer's arm.
Overedge wasn't in the VN, Nasu only included it after seen it in Deen's F/SN.
Was Kariya a 虫児病?
Text > CG
The general description of the skill is from the CM.
Shirou didn't trace a new sword since then, your image is irrelevant.
If Ilya is Cups and Shirou is Swords, does that make Sakura Rods (penis and kind words) and Rin Coins (old men for money)?
He only had the image, but he projected something else afterwards.
just refrain from killing so many people?
I think her origin is poor, otherwise there would be a contradiction
Other origin options for Rin.
>I have read Fate twice, UBW 4 times, and HF twice.
Jesus Christ man, what a waste of time.
I have no idea about lore or anything connected to it beyond whatever I read here, but... for some reason I love this theory.
Yeah, no. He says he uses his last reserves on the last pair. Even Archer notes that he only has eight projections at the start of the fight.
>what a waste of time.
and yet you are here browsing /a/.
No he didn't, and CG proves it is a longsword.
CG is less relevant than the text.
No, it is, and he definitely went past eight projections.
>…I focus the last of my will on the Magic Circuit.
>My split nerves scream.
>But I carefully put together the eight steps.
>I project his twin swords.
>Kanshou and Bakuya, two great swords named after an ancient swordsmith.
>I swing them.
>I keep attacking until my remaining energy runs out…!
>"That's the fifth one. You should be nearing your limits of reproduction using projection. I know your magical energy capacity. You have three more. …Even though I showed THAT to you, you still misunderstand."
why zouken doesn't kidnap rin after tokiomi dies? there was no reason for him to keep his promise of only taking one daughter
1) he definitely went past 8 projections
2) He was only projecting Kanshou and Bakuya in the first half of the fight, but he switched to different projection for the last fight.
Zouken has honor
>Zouken has honor
>Archer breaks KB
>"you have three more left"
>Archer projects Caladbolg, Shirou copies and they clash
>Shirou's breaks, Archer throws his away and projects Durandal
>they clash, Shirou's break and he falls on the ground
>gets up and uses his last to make KB
>Bakuya gets broken
>Kanshou gets bent and is fading
>Shirou is leaning on it, half-dead
>get backs up, says his first UBW line and it regains itself
>no more projections.
He doesn't need her. And doesn't she answer to the Association? It could get him in trouble if the owner of the second best land in Japan suddenly disappears and people decide to invastigate. And if they don't there's no guarantee the next magus that comes after Rin will let Zouken be.
Archer says he has three more left and has used five. Shirou makes Calabolg, Durandal and then last Kanshou and Bakuya.
Except he did project another sword, go read.
No, he did another projection.
No, he didn't. I literally summarized that scene in terms of projections here>>115280975
>KB(You have three left said here)
If Zouken wanted an immortal soul so much why didn't he just convert to Chistrianity?
>She has violet eye that she utilizes to see. This power of hers allows her to gather information visually.
I fucking lost it.
Why didn't Illya just wear safety goggles?
GO FUCKING read, he fucking projected another sword after Kanshou and Bakuya
NP is holding hands
Where, before Caladbolg? Yes, he said that he had three left.
You do realize Archer calls his own sword a longsword and Shirou's just a sword, right?
I wonder what the original Hassan would be like, and if he would be strong.
No, are you fucking blind? It's after his last Kashou and Bakuya projection, you know when he is leaning on his fading Kanshou.
It only mentions Shirou using a sword, and never calling it by its name like it always had.
Even after Shirou pulls the sword out of Archer, he didn't even call it Kanshou.
Skills are presence concealment(duh), independent action, dagger throwing, shapeshift, poison resistance.
this pic like
Bull-fucking-shit you idiot. Show me the damn line where he projects another.
>Yang-sword Kanshou regains its image.
>"That's right. I already knew that…"
>…This is just a dream.
>But I kept on believing in it because I thought it was right.
>Kiritsugu pursued it because he knew it was an unattainable dream, an impossible ideal.
>Even if it may be unattainable…
>He believed that he would reach his destination if he kept running.
>I ready my sword.
And then it's all a flurry of sword strikes. WHERE THE FUCK DID HE PROJECT ANYTHING?
How is this useful.
Short of some Kerry-tier flooding the whole town with VX I don't see the utility of something so specific.
>How is this useful.
So she can still scratch her own nose?
>Ilya's origin is Cup
>Cups tarot suits is equivalent Hearts poker suit
Here's where he projects Kanshou and Bakuya after the other random projections, but 'should' be the 'last' project by Archer's estimation.
>My split nerves scream.
>But I carefully put together the eight steps.
>I project his twin swords.
>Kanshou and Bakuya, two great swords named after an ancient swordsmith.
After Bakuya was destroyed, he was leaning on Kanshou, he begins another projection like >>115281080 stated.
He projected another (blank?) sword and regain his Kanshou's integrity from proper visualization.
So he is wielding the long sword and the remaining Kanshou at that point.
The CG prove it is a longsword and all the remaining text only refers to it as a sword, never by either Kanshou or Bakuya
Oh hell no.
It's Kanshou, he didn't project anything, he doesn't have the magical energy left to do that. He doesn't project anything in>>115281080
And it's called a sword because writing 剣 is faster than writing 干将 and the ruby text かんしょう every time he just wants to say sword.
The CG is wrong.
That's some mighty elaborate bullshit, but bullshit nonetheless.
No, see the image >>115282210, it occurs after the image from >>115281080.
>The swinging swords are crazy
This definitely implies two swords at that point.
And Shirou pretty much often refers to Kanshou and Bakuya by name, but he never does for his final sword, even after he pulled it out of Archer's body.
>He didn't read Heaven's Feel.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Woah, I had forgotten that Kiritsugu's dad could screw with time, too. Why didn't Kiritsugu teach that shit to Shirou?
>mfw missing 3 bad ends on HF
One is the Geass end, the other two I don't quite remember, should I do them?
Do you even know what overedge is?
No, there was no other sword. Read it from Shirou's point of view, there is only the one sword.
The "swords" doesn't refer to swords, but swordblows. A page later Archer refers to it as a single sword again, when the counter to his own four strikes comes for his neck. And then Archer notes that both of his hands are holding onto one sword.
Except there is.
And the CG was approved by Nasu and it was the fucking same in all iteration. That proves it is the longsword.
Read the VN.
After F/Z, Kerry was fucked by grail mud and died like a bitch, without any further accomplishment. I guess you could consider it an accomplishment that he totally mindbroke a little boy.
New and updated, get it
can you give me a good download link?
No, there isn't. One sword, that's it.
And it's not a longsword, Archer refers to it as a sword. Hell, even DEEN got it right, how is this confusing you?
No Deen get a ton of shit wrong, especially thinking that Avalon was a reflective NP capable of reflecting Ea, and the entire Shirou and Gilgamesh fight in UBW.
What is even the point of this argument? I lost track.
Haha, the fact that you took my DEEN lifeline is enough to convince me you have no more arguments left.
One sword, no tracing, Kanshou only, final destination.
No you are the one that won't accept that it was a legit CG especially since it is same for all versions of the VN.
Shirou doesn't even call the sword by its name, unlike with Kanshou and Bakuya.
training for the body and mind
Because writing ruby text is honestly a pain in the ass, which is why I never do it.
The only reason to use the names is to tell the reader which is being used, see when he uses caliburn he calls it just a sword.
Except it doesn't take much effort at all, all you need to do is Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V. And you don't even need the ruby text when all you need is the Kanji.
Nasu always writes with the ruby text. Mirror Moon didn't include it, which is shame. A lot of Shirou's spells are a lot cooler with it.
And he has dozens of words he wants to use it for, do you expect a nip in 2004 to spend the time to keybind every single one?
No he doesn't always write kanji with ruby text, especially since he is not using the Chinese pronunciation with the Kanji for Kanshou and Bakuya.
why is endurance DEF?
Yes he does, that's like his entire hook point for noble phantasms.
Because it's their armor/toughness stat.
DEF/END is basically vitality, also translation errors from back then.
No he doesn't, prove it.
You want me to literally post every instance of every noble phantasm being mentioned?
Eh... How about we do the reasonable thing and you post one where he does not use it.