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I know it is retarded to try discussing with /a/ at all, especially around this time, but I'll try sparking a discussion to get at least one thread with some brainpower in work.

Around here, there are a lot of elitist faggots who claim one anime title is better than the other, but it is rarely specified why. Seriously, WHY and HOW is Gurren Lagann better than a slightly above average shounen anime? (Other shows could be used as examples, but GL is the most discussed anime here)

tl;dr what constitutes good writing in anime??

Pic unrelated.
>>
sauce on op nao
>>
you are one pretentious dumbshit if you watch anime for the plot
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>>11312890
ookiku furikabutte
>>
Good writing?

I like intelligent, witty dry humor in my anime. But, you also need the characters to be able to, how should I say, bounce off one another.
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Naruto is better than gurren lagann, no need to explain.
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Nothing about the writing in GL was good. It was all about the over the top animation style.
>>
It's kind of hard to find good dialogue in an anime, considering no character wants to be fucking straight with another.
Just spending the whole series blushing at each other with nothing getting accomplished.

Bah. Most of the stuff in anime is a ripoff of hollywood anyway.
>>
Probably the only time I wish Cirno was here because I know he has copypasta saved for something like this.
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>>11312915
Examples of that sort of humour in anime, please.
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>>11312961
haruhi
>>
protip : All anime is good if you don't rage. Except for slice-of-life, only neets and weeaboos like slice-of-life.
>>
THERE'S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL!!
>>
Oh but to answer your question as to why GL is better than any other above average shounen.

...

Ready for this?

IT ENDS!
Not only does it end, but it's short too!
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>>11312954
There are people here who honestly believe that everything is subjective. This two-bit, philosophy 101 mentality is only useful for dragging everything down to the same level so no effort needs to be applied in defending something.

Animation and writing quality are not subjective. You can clearly tell that Akira is better animated than Nanoha; you can clearly tell that Wuthering Heights is better written than The Da Vinci Code. I will lay out everything very simply for everyone to understand:

Animation is not subjective
Writing is not subjective
Your enjoyment of either is subjective.

You are allowed to hate something good. Conversely you are allowed to enjoy something that is bad, but something bad does not become good just because you enjoy it.

Are there any questions? Because I am willing to respond to any concerns you might have.
>>
>Seriously, WHY and HOW is Gurren Lagann better than a slightly above average shounen anime?
I have never, ever heard this question answered, OP. Good one to ask.
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>>11312877
Gurren Lagann is like a burrito wrapped in insanity, manliness, and epic.
You take a bite out of it and your mouth becomes full of exotic flavors (including man juice?) and you start to cry and your skin gets goosebumps and your spine shivers..
Do you understand now why Gurren Lagann is so fucking good?
MMMM BURRITO
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>>11312951

Actually it's mostly the other way around these days.
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>>11312990
So did a lot of shounen series if you look around.
Busou Renkin for example, has a lot of fans here, but no one claims it is something more than a well done shounen anime.
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>>11312954

CIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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>>11312951
Maybe you should watch something other than harem shows.
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Who's the big breasted chick in the OP. I want to masturbate.
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There is no more reciepe to make a good anime than to live a good life. Of course, you can often define "objective" aspects and say if they are good or bad, but the importance of these aspects being purely subjective, it won't take us very far.
I don't really think writing is a criteria narrow enough to agree if it is good or bad.

And Cirno's copypasta can go to the trashcan/dustbin, as far as I am concerned.
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>>11313012
Maybe for the stuff with directors who REALLY like anime.

Like, the Matrix. But that's about it. The stuff that gets a lot of recognition amongst American movie goers is based off of more Western tastes.
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>>11313090
Momoe from Ookiku Furikabutte
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Naruto - boring
Bleach - boring
Hunter X Hunter - good
Kekkaishi - good
One Piece - good
Gurren-Lagann - awesome
>>
When watching anime, I look at the characters. Their quirks, their interactions - that goes for whatever the genre happens to be. And I don't really consider one show to be better than another - even in the most meager of series I can see something that made it worth my time.
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>>11312997

its fucking terrible. i dropped it after 4 episodes, its flcl animation but with no plot and boring by the book characters.

bikini + sniper rifle... cmon. its bad and you should feel bad.
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>>11313024
And that's exactly what GL is. Well done.

You have your below average shounen like Inuyasha and Naruto
Your average shounen like Bleach
then the above average ones like GL and Souleater (which will change depending on the season)

GL is over the top awesome yes, but on the whole it is an above average animu (primarily due to the animation.)
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>>11313120
There's more than four episodes to the series, you know...
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Good question, OP.
I have the same problem with the elitist "lol I watch something different and not popular, therefore better"-faggots here who treat Akagi as some sort of revolutionary anime of fucking biblical proportions.

I was told Akagi was less about Mah-Jongg and more about ruthless psychological attacks on Yakuza VIA Mah-Jongg. But it wasn't. It was about fucking Mah-Jongg and only Mah-Jongg. It wasn't about threats, bluffs or really even comprehensible strategies; it was all about Ten's, Ron's and Tenpai's. It just beat you over the head with opaque Mah-Jong terms and just expected you to assume the writer's had been clever in how they wrote it. And even if you knew Mah-Jongg, it was probably just as boring.

The so called "psychology" behind Akagi was an utter bluff by the fans, who usually throw monkey shit at people who say there was any depth behind Elfen Lied or Higurashi. The depth of the psychology in Akagi can be summed up as follows:
Yakuza: This brat thinks he's going to win, but he's not.
Akagi: My strategy is flawless. I will win.
Yakuza: (makes move) Ha! I win! I beat you!
Akagi: Wrong. It is I who beat you. (flips tiles) Ron.
Yakuza: AAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!
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As an anime and television connoisseur, I have refined taste and knowledge ontop of basic reasoning skills. Gurren Lagann was the most memorable show of 2007 and was one of Gainax's finest, an anime like Soul Eater can't compare.

Just like how CSI or Law & Order each have 15 identical TV shows and they all suck in comparison to something original like Dexter. My informed opinion doesn't make the show, the show makes my informed opinion.

All the faggots who cry about people's opinions being different are just too stupid to tell when a series is shit or not.
>>
Sage for another Gurren Lagann circle-jerk thread.
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>>11313150
>average
>Bleach

If this is a world where Bleach is anything approaching average, its not a world I want to live in.

Goodbye.
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>>11313111

Your taste - shit.
My taste - good. Let me give you an example :

Cowboy Bebop - good
FLCL - good
Laste Exile - good
Ergo Proxy - good
GITS SAC - good
Overman King Gainer - good
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>>11313172
And what about it after the first four episodes would make him like it? The death of the most charismatic character in the show, the stupid bullshit going on after a pointless timejump, or the biggest fucking Mary Sue that's been seen for a while?
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Despite the fact that i have read all this and some answers were pretty awesome but i also will say my oppinion to Gurren Lagann.
It were way to epic, like DB Z will all the transformations and that stuff.
The hero were strong, the enemy became stronger so he had to transform and i can't see the reason why Gurren lagann were so "awesome".
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>>11313111
Naruto - horrible
Bleach - good
Hunter X Hunter - boring (being nice)
Kekkaishi - ?
One Piece - boring (being nice)
Gurren-Lagann - boring

I judge mostly on character design.
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>>11313199
It's only approaching average because of all the shit Japan puts out. They bring the average down. If this season continues to improve then Bleach will drop back to below average.
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>Seriously, WHY and HOW is Gurren Lagann better than a slightly above average shounen anime?
Oh! That's an easy one! It ISN'T any better! What do I win?
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>>11313207
Really? Well I didn't like Cowboy Bebop. Does that mean my tastes are shit? Are you the anime master?

Everyone has different opinions, you fuck tard.
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>Seriously, WHY and HOW is Gurren Lagann better than a slightly above average shounen anime?

It would help if you'd specify which shounen anime, because I don't know what you consider "above average". But I know why I enjoyed Gurren Lagann more than other shounen, and it has nothing to do with HURR DEEP. Basically, TTGL was fun. It was shonen minus neverending battles, plus gut-wrenchingly amazing animation, minus explanations of everything that happened, plus INSPIRATIONAL HIP HOP OPERA, and it was all condensed into 26 episodes. But I might say that your enjoyment of GL might depend on how you watched it. While it was airing, everyone fucking loved it, but I went on to recommend it to a few friends and they weren't into it as much. I think that watching an episode a week makes it more fun; it makes you more likely to go HEY SHIT FUCK THAT'S AWESOME than if you were marathoning it.

tl;dr Watching TTGL is like biting into a fucking awesome burrito, and you don't think that it can possibly get any more awesome but every time you bite into it, it does.
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>>11313234
Naruto - trash
Bleach - trash
Hunter X Hunter - ugly as fuck
One Piece - unique
Gurren-Lagann - fucking awesome

Fix'd
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>>11313245
>Everyone has different opinions

You say so many things that I agree with. It astonishes me that we are mortal enemies.
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>>11313207

> Overman King Gainer

Forget the writing, this is the only think I remember about that show. I wish chicks who played video games in real life were this hot.
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Everyone in this thread is a retard. Myself included.
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>>11313179

This is what daytime /a/ actually believes.
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>>11313239
It was never average in the first place. If you take Rukia's/Soul Society arc and put Orihime in Rukia's spot and change the setting to Hueco Mundo they are almost the same thing....and repeating plot is crap.

Please dont make me elaborate on exact points cause it would take me all day to list them all.
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>>11313225
You just failed the class.
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>>11313271
I also approve of the awesome burrito.
GL is just a fun anime.
Check your brain at the door and enjoy.
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None seem to be in this thread, but there are regularly people here who say that GL's writing is "clever" and that the dialogue is well written and that the visual characterization makes the characters DEEP and Nia not a mary sue. EXPLAIN IT, FAGGOTS.
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Writing?
As far as aesthetics or finer details go, that's debatable.
But as far as the actual structure of a story, Higurashi was a fucking winner in my book. Yes, it was a game prior, but the point still stands.

Higurashi wove a complex tapestry in its narrative of lies, paranoia and insanity, layering the events with many not making any sense till you've seen later episodes. Some incredibly hard thought went into writing the story and making all the events fit into place, and it shows. The show had me guessing from episode one as to who had what motives. Story revolving around Mion/Shion in the first season was a mindfuck of epic proportions.
When we finally found out who the REAL villain was (Takano), I nearly shat myself. I seriously had not seen it coming, which is rare. And it's made all the better by the fact she turned out to be one of the most incredibly well-done villains in all of anime.

tl;dr, other points aside, Higurashi was an excellent example of good writing in an anime. Fuck your Akagi or Gurren Lagnn or whatever.
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>>11313179
OMG FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO THINKS ELFEN LIED WASNT SOME GOD SEND ANIME
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>>11313272

Naruto - trash
Bleach - great characters
Hunter X Hunter - ugly as fuck
One Piece - crap
Gurren-Lagann - average and overrated

FIXED
>>
Why is Gurren Lagann good:
1.- it has common themes trough all the series (don't giving up, freedom and, more important of all, drilling)
just look at Naruto, at first it was an anime/manga about a friendless kid who wanted to be recognised by the villagers (and make some friends along the way), but at some point, it became "I'll have to rescue my emofriend" (keep in mind that, even tough Naruto is portrayed as ronery at the beggining of the show, it's later revealed that he was old friends with Shikamaru, Kiba and Chouji)
2.- It gives you what it promises:
Gurren lagann is an anime about idiots who shout stuff and big explosions and shit, that's what gainax wanted it to be and that's what it is, Naruto, on the other hand, seems to be writted on the go, and Kishimoto seems to be already tired of his never-ending manga
3.- It has awesome animation
it's an anime about fighting, so the animation is important (look at the QUALITY from Naruto)
4.- shit happens when it has to happen
Kamina died, so simon went emo for a few episodes, but then he became GAR, Kittan became leader of the gurren brigade during this time, but he was only keeping it together until simon came to reclaim his place. Naruto spends 10+ volumes looking for Sasuke, and then when he is "about" to find him, Sasuke goes away and we come back to the same shit from 30 volumes ago
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>>11313327
Higurashi is superior to Perfect Blue as far as anime thrillers go.
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>>11312899
/thread

Presentation > Plot.
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>>11313319
Why not let those who claim Nia is a mary sue to explain why? Daytime /a/ can't justify their views.

Gurren Lagann was amazing because it has almost no flaws. the characters are amazing, the music is fantastic, it looks great, it feels even better, it's exhilarating and almost single-handedly can restore a person's love of anime. There is something for everyone.

If you actually watch Gurren Lagann, you'll understand why it's so good. It's as simple as that.
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>>11313305
>HURR HURR HEY GUYS I WATCH YOUR NICHE MAH-JONGG ANIME SINCE EVERYTHING ELSE IS FOR FAGGOTS AM I COOL NOW?
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subjectivity
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>>11313319
Well, personally, if I like a show, that means the dialogue is excellently written and the characters are DEEP DEEP DEEP, but if I don't like a show then it's PRETENTIOUS.
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>>11313346
>It gives you what it promises

It never gave us Garlock...
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>>11313346
thanks for giving points of why it is like every OTHER SHOUNEN MANGA
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>>11313327
Agreed, except for the last line. I like them too.
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ITT - Opinions, lol.
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>>11312971
orz

>>11313225
>or the biggest fucking Mary Sue that's been seen for a while?

So I'm guessing her capture and imprisonment was were she got raped and then became unstoppably goddess-like.
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>>11313382
Ok... except for that
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>>11313353
>>11313327 here.
I've watched both. Higurashi is indeed far superior. Unlike what faggots like >>11313360 think, a good story is more important than good presentation. Higurashi was PLAGUED by crack-happy shittery, "lol, fanservice" and QUALITY, and it was STILL scarier and more involving than Perfect Blue.
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>>11313346
Don't use the word emo when describing any Gainax character, because being emo is acting like somebody died when everything is fine. Depression is legitimate, being emo is not.

Keep that emo shit in 3D high schools where it belongs. I'm sick of hearing it. Thank you in advance.
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>>11313423
NIa was never raped.
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>>11313453
It's not better than Monster, though.
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>>11313368

I fucking loved Gurren lagann but Nia is a Mary Sue no question. She really lowered the series' quality for me - at times I punched the wall in sheer rage at her pathetic attempts to be meaningful. For the most part, she was just wrong all the time, and stuck up her own arse despite being shit at everything.
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>>11313453
Signed.
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>>11313368
>almost no flaws

Durr hurr, nothing is flawless.

>the characters are amazing

There are examples of better characterization in anime. Point is also subjective as how much a person gets attached to a fictional character is individual.

>the music is fantastic

Appopriate OST, but again, there are animu with better music.

>it looks great
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>>11313382
Thats what the movies and OVAs are for.
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>>11313372
Perfect example of the mindless Daytime /a/ wastes of human existence.
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>>11313120

amen
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>>11312877
PIC RELATED FAGGOT, THOSE TITS RIGHT THERE ARE FUCKWIN WRITING
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>>11313491
C'mon, that's a classic troll technique. Upgrade.
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>>11313372
Uguu~ people only watch unconventional anime for cool points, there is no way they are actually good and people see different things in these shows and enjoy them for various reasons on a personal level no wai.
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>>11313526
hey, ookiku furikabutte was a fun and intense show about baseball with likable characters, don't insult it by making sarcastic remarks like that
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Being short can make an average show better by not diluting sweet moments with crap and filler. F/SN wasn't a great show, but the moments of Garcher action brought it up since there wasn't 100 episodes of crap to bring it down. While TTGL is a better show than F/SN, the same principle still applies.
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>>11312877

>to get at least one thread with some brainpower in work

massive fail
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>>11313526
Pic IS related actually.

The Oofuri manga won a prestigious award (SEE, NOT ONLY GL IS AKNOWLEDGED) last year, so it obviously has merits. Haven't actually seen/read it yet though.
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>>11313491
>there are animu with better music.

Yeah, fucking tons of them.

TTGL's soundtrack barely managed six out of ten by my standards.
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>>11313368
Nia had nearly all the qualities of some fanfic character.

-The way she was found was insanely Mary-Sueish.
-All the men on the bridge suddenly love Nia. They all hate Yoko, who at the time, was the one in Simon's heart.
-They go through all stops to make Nia look better than Yoko in this episode.
-Insanely sweet, adorable, and compassionate, even before her death.
-Not bitter towards her father AT ALL.
-She ends up marrying Simon.

After /a/ TOTALLY ATE THIS GIRL UP, I fucking stopped caring for what ever anime /a/ saged or held in high regard.
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>>11313491
Don't be such a stupid nigger. He said it had almost no flaws, and all you said in return was "THERE ARE SHOWS THAT OUTSHINE GL IN TERMS OF THESE THINGS RIGHT HERE". No shit, Sherlock, he wasn't say that GL was ZOMG THE BEST, but he was saying that it did succeed in being almost (re: ALMOST, lol episode four) flawless in many areas.
>>
when i watched GL everything just screamed STUPID at me, so much so that it was impossible to turn off that voice in my head and thus impossible for me to enjoy watching it in the slightest

the overblown melodrama, the completely unrealistic unsympathizable characters, the ridiculously cartoonish design direction for the mecha, the kamina grief porn, the constantly spewed tasteless one-liners

EVERYTHING screamed stupid

i know it was supposed to be something of a parody but everything just rubbed me the wrong way, so much so that the so-bad-it's-good phenomenon did not apply
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>>11313594

Sorry, are we ROW ROWING on the same page here?
>>
>>11313512
Because I don't like your fucking Mah-Jongg anime? You fail to make any points besides "DAYTIME FAGGOT STOP WATCHING MAIN-STREAM SHIT IT'S ONLY GOOD IF NOBODY ELSE WATCHES IT".
Facts:
1. Unique/unpopular =/= Good
2. The fact you like it =/= Good
Case in point, Akagi. Enjoy your elitism.
>>
ITT: Retards who can't handle opinions.
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>>11313612
Nia was hot, that's the only reason I liked her.

Darry is hotter.
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>>11313628
>completely unrealistic unsympathizable characters

I did like GL a lot, but I agree with this point. At least after Kamina died, I found it hard to actually give a shit about characters that are mostly charicatures.
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>>11313368
>Why not let those who claim Nia is a mary sue to explain why?

Sure. Nia suddenly appeared on the scene the episode after Kamina died, knowing nothing about anything. She immediately dazzled everyone on the crew and generally stuck out like a sore thumb, kinda like if Snow White joined the FARC. Later, she got possessed by the Anti-Spirals and became a human McGuffin and an excuse for Simon to travel halfway across the galaxy to search for her. Then, when she finally married Simon, she 404'd. In short, she's a walking plot device, and so beautiful and perfect and wonderful and blah blah blah. Now if they could show what she did in the 7 years between eps 15 and 17 she might be redeemed.
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Oh, boy! Another Green Loggin' thread!
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>>11313512
butt hurt sage fag
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>>11313677
>charicatures
>>
>Why not let those who claim Nia is a mary sue to explain why?

Sure. Nia suddenly appeared on the scene the episode after Kamina died, knowing nothing about anything. She immediately dazzled everyone on the crew and generally stuck out like a sore thumb, kinda like if Snow White joined the FARC. Later, she got possessed by the Anti-Spirals and became a human McGuffin and an excuse for Simon to travel halfway across the galaxy to search for her. Then, when she finally married Simon, she 404'd. In short, she's a walking plot device, and so beautiful and perfect and wonderful and blah blah blah. Now if they could show what she did in the 7 years between eps 15 and 17 she might be redeemed.
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>>11313469
Yes, but that is a plot device used for some Mary Sues and I wa- nevermind.

>>11313485
Other than being a replacement motivator after Kamina dies, I don't see how she's a Mary Sue.
Then again, I think of Mary Sues as those that can obviously succeed through any amount of bullshit. I guess what little Nia did, she did it all successfully. Well, besides cooking. That only succeeded for Simon.
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>>11313628
You probably don't have very much fun, ever, do you?
>>
Please don't tell me OP sauce is Mayor.
>>
You can have the opinion of enjoying to eat shit but at the end of the day you are still eating shit.
>>
Another thing is, the biggest selling point about Gurren Lagann was probably how much fucking fun it was at the beginning. Kamina said ridiculous things, there was that guy who continued acting like a faggot, Simon was trying his hardest to a man, and Yoko was hot when she was sniping shit.

After that, it tried to be fucking depressing, and tried to be "epic" and it failed on both accounts. It was annoying.

The whole "Reach for the Heavens" seemed meaningless in the middle of the series.
>>
nia is a mary sue and gurren lagann is a typical shonen super robot show. they weren't going for amazing deep originality in gurren lagann.
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>>11313641
It'd rather be elitist than be tasteless and clueless like you. Get a clue and either rise to our level, get over it, or GTFO.

Those who cry ELITISTS are akin to the retards at Gaia who haven't gotten over their parents taking off the security blanket.
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>>11313641

If you are >>11313179 just means that you are a retard who missed the fucking point of the show (or the fact that it actually is a psychological thriller), not that it's actually AWFUL SHIT that people only watch because it's unique. People like things for different reasons anyway, just because you didn't enjoy something doesn't mean it's OVERRATED NICHEFAG SHIT BAWWWWWWWWWWWW and all the fans like it to be cool.
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>>11313707
zetsubou-sensei goes for pure comedy and social satire, so caricatures are perfectly fine for what it's trying to do. the characters are quite funny.
this doesn't work for gurren-lagann
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>>11313724
Have you ever heard the axiom "One person's trash is another person's treasure"?
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>>11313707
That's a comedy show where the characters are supposed to be exaggerated stereotypes.

GL tries to have emotional scenes, but they fail as the characters are hard to sympathise with.
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>>11313757
this saying doesn't apply to anime i know this i am a scientist
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>>11313734
lol looks like the tripfag is trying to gain some weight in order to to make his anatomically big mouth get a better relation with his small bodyframe.
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>>11313612
That's not a Mary Sue because TTGL's writer isn't a girl who created Nia as a placeholder for herself. Nia was just adorable and you really couldn't hate her and have a soul at the same time.

If you want a Mary Sue, look at the character from Eragon, that shitty book written by that furfag who ripped off Star Wars.
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>>11313712

you have a very limited definition of the word
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>>11313802
Okay, can you refute that with something that isn't so question-dodging?
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>>11313179
Oh wow.

I raged. Hard.
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>>11313806
Nia can easily work as a self insert for the (female, or "I wish to be a girl ;_;" fags) viewer.

Look at Miaka from Fushigi Yuugi. She was supposed to be a self insert for the reader so that she can have her own manharem.
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>>11313806
No. She's a Mary Sue.

Watch the fucking beach episode again.
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>>11313575
>While TTGL is a better show than F/SN
>TTGL > F/SN
Oh-ho, you best be trollin'
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>>11313612
>>11313708
Okay, that makes sense.

Maybe it was my expectation that Mary Sues are always main characters. Never did thought of one as a supporting character.
>>
DO THE IMPOSSIBLE, SEE THE INVISIBLE =/=decent music.

Some of the music on the ost was good, but there was far too many generic "slightly inspirational" or "this is a sad song" pieces, coupled with a number of godawful techno tracks. This is appropriate music, not good music.

Don't get me wrong, I loved TTGL for a number of reasons, first and foremost how attached I got to certain characters, but that doesn't give it a good soundtrack.
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>>11313855
OPINION.
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>>11313734
>either rise to our level, get over it, or GTFO.
ATTENTION EVERYBODY. IT SEEMS WE WERE WRONG.
THOSE OF US WHO DIDN'T LIKE AKAGI, IT TURNS OUT IT WAS BECAUSE AKAGI WAS ON A LEVEL TOO FAR ABOVE OUR OWN FOR US TO UNDERSTAND IT. THOSE WHO LIKE AKAGI ARE ENLIGHTENED BUDDAHS OF /a/ AND SHOULD REGULARLY HAVE THEIR DICKS SUCKED BY US SIMPLE-MINDED COMMENORS.
>>
Nia still only meets half the requirements of being a Mary Sue. Half is the "lol good at everything" which is somewhat arguable. Fulfilling the second part would require that she steal the spotlight from Simon, garnering more attention than he does.

Which she doesn't.
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>>11313743
>it actually is a psychological thriller
Refer to the 5-line summation in >>11313179 in order to understand how Akagi's incredible depth of psychological involvement thrilled its viewers.
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>>11313954
>you are a retard

Anyone can simplify something to make it appear lame.
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>>11313708
Anyone with a brain can project themselves onto any characters that they can identify with. I don't like to bring up fanbase faggotry as a flaw of a series, either, since it's just a byproduct.

Nia's role was explained in GL and to Simon, her being special was enough for him to snap out of his despair, which is something that anyone can relate to when you bring of the phrase "new meaning in life". Nia is a fine character, who just happens to be an Anti-Spiral. That's not enough for me to call her a Mary Sue.
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>>11313924
>This brown substance looks like shit, feels like shit and tastes like shit but smells more like earth than shit - it still counts as chocolate, doesn't it?
>>
>>11313922
You're an annoying faggot, cry some more somewhere else, newfag.
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>>11313924
Are you seriously arguing this? She does take the spotlight from Simon.

For some reason, they decided to make her the daughter of that...Spiral King.
>>
>Seriously, WHY and HOW is Gurren Lagann better than a slightly above average shounen anime?

It'd be more honest to ask why Gurren Lagann doesn't suck like most shounen.

Shounen is a genre with a specific niche appeal. It comes with inherent weaknesses in quality, that it normally doesn't have to worry about so long as it pays attention to it's few strengths that appeals to it's target audience. In this shounen is a lot like a cheap splatter flick. It doesn't matter if the the movie has shitty acting, terrible plot, laughable effects, etc. so long as it as the oomph in the gore that appeal to the blood & guts fans. Shounen just need to appeal to the young male tween's power fantasies and it can, and normally does, eschew extra effort in most other areas.

Gurren Lagann is one of those exceptions that is a good series all around despite also being a good genre success. It's drama isn't as forced or maudlin, it's characters are fun, unique, and interesting, it has beautiful animation. Even it's prolific cliches often manage to made fun and fresh again thanks to good directing. It's a good show.
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>>11314004
A lot of shit tastes like chicken, but that's the only thing they have in common with it. Way to make a stupid miserable excuse for an argument. Also, your math is fucking horrible.
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>>11313990
Ok. Repeat what you just said.

"Her being special enough."

Does she need to be Half Spiral, Half Human, Half Dragon and use magic for you to consider her to be Mary Sue.

And if she meets half the requirements of being Mary Sue, then already she's a horrible fucking character. God damn it people read a book.
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>>11313910
Which means, on average, the OST doesn't do well out of context. Mm.

Still, much love to "With your XXX, Pierce the Heavens!" God, that one always makes me happy.

>>11313924
A Support Sue! Wait... does that even make sense?
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>>11313984
My point was that that's ALL there is to the psychology of Akagi.
It never goes beyond "I'm going to win", "He thinks he's going to win but he's not", back and forth for the entirity of the series. It's all about fucking Mah-Jongg and wither winning or losing at it, and either bluffing or folding to manipulate your opponents view or confidence, which still usually only boils down to a 50/50 chance decision anyway.
tl;dr, gambling does not make a great subject for animu, even when you try and spice it up with pretentious "mindfucking" that's really just back and forth banter about who's going to win or lose.
Kaiji seemed to have at least somewhat fixed this, however....
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>>11313954
That fail Akagi troll left out the FACT that Akagi almost lost a shitload of times, but his devil luck and skill at Mahjong enabled him to turn shitty hands that would have cost him everything into life-savers.

Newfags need to keep their Akagi hate in shit places like Animesuki or Narutofan or whatever bullshit website these faggots came from.
>>
>>11314012
I'll yield that she may in fact be a Mary Sue up to a certain point at her youth, but after a certain point, her hardships become nothing more than additional drive for Simon. Also, she doesn't garner more attention than her plight deserved. It was "Oh noes, trouble!" and then back to Simon.
>>
>>11313990
You still haven't explained how she's any more than a plot device. She has complex feelings, yes, but she only has one set of them. She doesn't function as a real person. People don't make arguments about characters like Simon because he would, - you can see someone with his personality and mindset working a quiet office job - whereas Nia is simply too one dimensional to function in an environment any different to the one she is already in.
>>
>>11314010
>STUPID DAYTIME /a/ AKAGI WAS GOOD IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE IT YOU'RE STUPID SO EITHER ACCEPT IT OR SHUT UP
>>
>>11314070
There are plenty of characters with Mary Sue qualities that don't break suspension of disbelief.

I can't say that Nia is among those due to my inexperience on the subject.
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>>11314102
And that's all that needs to be said. The series SHOULD HAVE ended at the mid way point.

But then we had a forced bad ending, and even more strangeness.
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>>11314096
>whatever bullshit website these faggots came from.

you mean like 4chan
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>>11313734
>It'd rather be elitist than be tasteless and clueless like you. Get a clue and either rise to our level, get over it, or GTFO.
"I'm right, you're wrong, shut up. People who dissagree with me belong in Gaia, GTFO"-elitism at its fucking best.
>>
>>11314012
Daughter of the Spiral King, everyone loves her, only flaws are "cute," marries the hero, dies tragically but of course she accepts her death.
>>
>>11314020
>>Shounen is a genre with a specific niche appeal. It comes with inherent weaknesses in quality, that it normally doesn't have to worry about so long as it pays attention to it's few strengths that appeals to it's target audience. In this shounen is a lot like a cheap splatter flick.

Sorry, but no. Shounen is NOT a genre. It is a demographic. Within Shounen you can have ANY type of genre. Jojo's Bizzarre Adventure is shounen. The Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service (horror and pretty adult I might add) is shounen. Yaitate Japan is shounen and so is Welcome to the NHK. I could keep going...

So comparing shounen to a "cheap splatter flick" is just wrong. Just because the titles are aimed at boys and run in boy's magazine doesn't mean many of these stories don't overcome gender boundaries and appeal to many people.
>>
Why has this not been posted yet?
>>
>>11314096
>his devil luck and skill at Mahjong enabled him to turn shitty hands that would have cost him everything into life-savers.
And this is better than any shitty shonen boardgame-based anime WHY?
Akagi is lucky and is good at a parlor game. OH SHIT! IT'S ALREADY MAKING ME SHIT BRICKS!
>>
>>11314079
Yeah, that was the point I was trying to convey.

As an example of a great soundtrack, I am currently listening to "Ame no boss tei" from the VoaDS OST - when it was used in context with the animation, it added power and emotion to the scene, and works great as a standalone piece. Same goes for the rest of the OST, and everything else Tenmon's ever touched. The Bebop OST, for example, is generally regarded as great - it's one of my personal favourites - for those exact reasons.
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>>11314070
She was special enough to Simon. Have you ever really loved a girl before? Anyone who has can relate to it. When a girl doesn't know how to cook but you disregard it and like her anyway. Nia's existence meant that Simon was more mentally stable and saved us from him pulling a NICE BOAT on Yoko or some other stupid bullshit.

Mary Sue/Nia argument is pointless and forced. Even if she was (which she isn't) then big fucking deal, GL is still great.
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For anyone not familiar with Mary Sue's lets say this happened. I'll use Code Geass, since that seems to be the popular one at the moment.

Let's say Lelouch (Who's not gay) loses one of his romantic interests (Kallen, CC, Shirley, Milly), and this girl pops up in a cheesy, mystical way.

All the remaining girls absolutely hate her because she immediately steals Lelouch's heart...Even though she's sweet, adorable, hot and ALWAYS KIND. All the men make a big deal about her, and think she's the greatest thing alive, and actually LOSE INTEREST in the other women.

Oh yeah, and she's the daughter of another Emperor who's under Lelouch's radar. And she dies in a such a dramatic fashion, though still grinning from ear to ear, with no flaws that don't make her "moe".

How would you feel about that girl? ASSUMING YOUR COCK WASN'T BROUGHT INTO THE EQUATION.
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>>11314012
Who Simon promptly beats in grand 22000 frames!

>>11314070
>And if she meets half the requirements of being Mary Sue, then already she's a horrible fucking character. God damn it people read a book.

Well, to be anally technical, the arguement was over if others considered her to fall under the Mary Sue classification, not about her overall quality as a character. Though on that note, I guess she wasn't much beyond being a happy, cheery wife (who got taken over and then captured) for Simon .
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>>11314234
Not being able to cook isn't a real flaw, it's a cute/naive flaw that doesn't have much impact on her character.
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>>11313234
nice trolling
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>>11314241
i'd miss my cock
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>>11314241
I would feel bad for the other girls because I get bested in everything all too often irl.
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>>11314259
A Mary-Sue is hated because it's the label of a extremely poorly written character.
>>11314234
You just continue proving my points. "Special enough to Simon".

It only took him a week to realize! Even though it's the same boy who ONLY liked a girl for seemingly her sexy body.
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>>11314203
Akagi isn't even shounen, you dumb fuck. You obviously don't get it and I dare to ask you what series do you think is superior to Akagi while being similar in subject matter. You can't do that though, because you're a troll.

Don't voice your worthless opinion on anything created by Fukumoto you uncultured twat.
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>>11312877

Viral makes this animu awesome, also, love his theme song.
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>>11314241
She would be a popular moeblob probably, as most anime fans cannot tell good characterization from bad and what deus ex machina is.
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>>11314241
>Let's say Lelouch (Who's not gay)

Heh, I think there must be some doubt or I wouldn't see people adding such disclaimers when nobody has even introduced the prospect.
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We actually had a good thread in /m/ without any trolling on this subject.

Gurren Lagann does have good writing. If you watch it a second time you'll notice that there are tons of foreshadowing and the dialogue relates to the theme and later plot developments. They also use certain symbol throughout, like spirals of course, but also things like Nia's ring. That's a sign that they actually planned this all out and wove threads of the story throughout.

Compare this to Geass where you could watch the first episode and later plot developments would still make no sense. Geass makes me think the writers came up with stuff on the fly or just wrote in stream-of-consciousness mode. Which is okay, it's entertaining, but I wouldn't call it good writing.
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>>11314331
you can't seriously think your post is in any way decent rhetoric, are you a gimmick?
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>>11314314
And brought him to the surface world and brought him into his new family, not to mention she was probably the kindest to him next to Kamina. Yeah, he's a shallow twit.

Tits probably didn't hurt though.
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>>11314357
Heh, the moment you bring up Lelouch's love life, everyone brings up Suzaku being his love life. Just for the sake of laughs, and trolling.

It doesn't help that Suzaku is a sexy motherfucker.
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>>11314314
Nia became dear to Simon the moment it was revealed that she was abandoned by the person Nia loved the most.

I suppose that Simon understood her feelings and situation considering Kamina recently died.
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>>11314404
Simon only liked her because she was hot. Seriously, rewatch the part in episode 8 where he thinks about her.
Puberty was a minor theme in GL. Or rather, a part of the whole coming of age thing.
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>>11314425
Too much like work. I'll just agree and post more Yoko. Fine with you?
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>>11314314
Ah yeah. Perhaps I go even more technically anal... no, that's stupid.
Well, I'd like to think there's more to the quality of a character other than writing, though even I know writing is almost everything for a character.

Fuck, wrote up to a wall. Can't quite think of Mary Sue's or Gary Stu's that I really enjoyed watching.
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>>11314314
That isn't the only reason he liked Yoko. Remember all those dirty underground bitches from his hometown?
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>>11312877
>>WHY and HOW is Gurren Lagann better than a slightly above average shounen anime?

Because of the better characters, story & action. TTGL accomplishes what it sets out to be, great mindless fun. Most other shows fail for trying to be more than they truly are - childish entertainment for (nerdy) kids.
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>>11314480
Heh, yeah. There are very few Mary Sue's out there that are really enjoyable AFTER figuring out that their a Mary Sue.

I'm sure there's one or two I liked. But they would have to be VERY charming.
>>
got any more of yoko?
argument seems to be in a spiral anyway
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>>11314559
I see what you did there.
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>>11314362
>If you watch it a second time you'll notice that there are tons of foreshadowing and the dialogue relates to the theme and later plot developments.

orz.
If it has no significance the first time around and only fits in when you watch it a second time and already know what's going to happen, that's called badly done foreshadowing. If you want real foreshadowing, go read Of Mice and Men.

>a sign that they actually planned this all out and wove threads of the story throughout.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, LET'S HAVE A LOOK AT THAT AGAIN.

>a sign that they actually planned this all out and wove threads of the story throughout.

NOPE, IT'S STILL FUCKING RETARDED.

That is not good writing, that is just writing that is above basic fanfiction level. You have just done the equivalent of taking an old Ford Transit and saying, "Look - this van has gears, which allow it go faster at high speeds but also start moving again after stopping on a hill. this is clearly a sign of a truly amazing vehicle."
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>>11314534
Yeah, up until episode 8. The show stopped being about adventure, and the weird after Kamina kicked the bucket.

The show used to have a style that was comparable to FLCL, dammit. But then it tried its hand at drama.
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>>11314559
lol irony amirite?
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>>11314603
It sounds to me like you're expecting a bit much out of a Sunday morning anime
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>>11314683
People expect much when they are told it is the best written fucking thing ever.
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>>11314603
i lol'd
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>>11314559
I like the way you think.
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>>11312877
>Around here, there are a lot of elitist faggots who claim one anime title is better than the other, but it is rarely specified why. Seriously, WHY and HOW is Gurren Lagann better than a slightly above average shounen anime? (Other shows could be used as examples, but GL is the most discussed anime here)

Its execution is almost flawlessly done, that's the reason why.
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>>11314708
You're still an idiot for not taking a statement like that with a grain of salt and not wavering your stance when everything is spelled out for you.
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>>11314745
>elitist faggot

way to play into the stereotype thar, blanket statement and all
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>Around here, there are a lot of elitist faggots who claim one anime title is better than the other, but it is rarely specified why. Seriously, WHY and HOW is Gurren Lagann better than a slightly above average shounen anime? (Other shows could be used as examples, but GL is the most discussed anime here)

I like discussing GL becuase it's easy to get fired up and have a great argument over it - the massive difference in opinions around it is what makes it great, the show itself is nothing more than a vessel for that.
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>>11314241
I'd wonder how a fat, lonely faggot like me is surrounded by people, much less women.
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>>11314479
Always good to have more Yoko

>>11314541
"AFTER", eh? It takes a while for all the pieces to fit together? Or have you finely honed your Mary Sue/Marty Stu detector?

Well, I never thought much of Nia other than being cute and a motivator for Simon. Mary Sue or not, I doubt my impression of her will change for better or worse. (As an aside, "never thought much of" would apply to any finer details of Gurren Lagann for me. I say, "Why work so hard picking on fine lines when the broads strokes of courage, breakthrough, and mecha explosions are so enjoyable for me.")
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>writing in anime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0PIdWdw15U
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>>11314790
>not wavering your stance when everything is spelled out for you.

The sky is green.
The colour of the sky is green.
Green is the colour of the sky.
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>>11314818
Thinking about things in retrospective sometimes changes your opinion on it. You start to think of all the reasons you even like a character, and than you realize it doesn't evolve to anything more than, "she's cute."

But I figured that Nia was a mary-sue at the beach episode. I was never slapped so hard with that kind of realization so quickly into a characters introduction.
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And now for something totally different.
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Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
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Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's is better then Gurren Lagann anyway.
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>>11314916
Wow, that one is good.
>>
Didn't GL have an awful cast of characters besides Simon, Leeron, a couple of the non-descript mecha pilots and Rossiu?

Nobody else would have worked as a normal person.
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>>11314331
>Don't voice your worthless opinion on anything created by Fukumoto you uncultured twat.
Whoa, better watch my back. I'm dealing with an internet tough-guy who knows what he's talking about.
Kaiji is the only good animu anywhere near the subject Akagi takes, and that's because Kaiji focuses on other things such as histories or emotions of the characters themselves rather than the actual game being played.
Gambling is a shitty subject for animu anyway. The plot devices roll on luck and skill in a game. Wooo! Let's not hinge plot-development on things like conscious choices or in-character decision making, but on what card/tile/whatever gets dealt to the protagonist. Now THAT'S a good plot-device!

Akagi is an awesome character because of his devil-luck and skill in Mah-Jongg. So fucking what? Yugi is skilled and lucky too with whatever shitty game they play in Yu-Gi-Oh. Does that make his shit interesting? No. Because it's a stupid idea to try and organize an anime you can take seriously around a GAME, especially one where luck is a major factor. "Oh, Akagi got the right tile he needed, and NOT the wrong one. *phew*, crisis averted. I shat my pants. Oh, but wait! He needs another tile to win! Oh shit! He's never gonna' get it! I'm on the edge of my seat!".

tl;dr, enjoy talking down to whoever disagrees with you about Akagi being the LOL BEST ANIMU EVAR, since apparently liking the anime you like makes someone smarter, you smug, “cultured” elitist fuck.
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>>11314940
And Yomako-sensei is fucking delicious.
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>>11314951
Wrong. Everyone is a normal person.
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>>11314924
Cards, drills...it's all the same...
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>>11314954
WALL OF FUCKING TEXT

Goddamn people.

Also, fucking SQL_ERRORS!
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>>11314954
Subject matter doesn't mean shit, all that matters is the execution.
I bet you didn't like Toshokan Sensou because of the LOL BOOKS AND GUNS.
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>>11314954
I was waiting for you to compare Akagi to YGO.
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>>11314603
>>If it has no significance the first time around and only fits in when you watch it a second time and already know what's going to happen, that's called badly done foreshadowing. If you want real foreshadowing, go read Of Mice and Men.

Don't be stupid, you know that's not what I'm saying.

As for the rest of your post, good character development, consistant use of symbols, themes, and metaphors, an interesting and full realized plot, natural dialogue etc etc is not "basic fiction level" it's good writing.

I'm not saying Gurren Lagann is the best thing ever written. It is silly and they shout attack names and whatnot but that's good, it works to the show's favor.

You seem like the kind of person who thinks no anime can be good because you've read Mice of Men and other literary classics. Well they are two different mediums told in very different styles. Comparing them is just silly.

All I'm really getting at is that Gurren Lagann is not stupid and neither were the writers.
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>>11314971
Agreed. I've lost count to how many times I've came because of my lovely waifu.
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>>11315022
No Counter-arguments.
No valid points that can't be sniped between the eyes from 300 yards away.
No Logic or Reasoning.
Elitism and Self-assuredness only.
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>>11315052
That's probably conducive to good mental health.

No longer counting I mean.
>>
Rurouni Kenshin and Yu Yu Hakusho are the only long-running shonen to really care about.
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>>11314954
Dude dude, Yu-Gi-Oh could have been amazing (IN ALL SERIOUSNESS) if it was done well and had decent writing.
Like how Yakitate is based on a retarded concept but is actually really fucking awesome.
And how Bartender is based on something mundane, but the presentation makes it unique and atmospheric. And so on.
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>>11314096
>That fail Akagi troll left out the FACT that Akagi almost lost a shitload of times, but his devil luck and skill at Mahjong enabled him to turn shitty hands that would have cost him everything into life-savers.
Yes. But even when everything looked hopeless he trusted in his deck, knowing that somehow the very next card drawn would once again prove to be his salvation.
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inb4 someone calls Akagi a Mary Sue.
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>>11314603

It's good writing for anime, actually.
>>
GL threads only help in making the GL trolls look like idiots.
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>>11314954 Because it's a stupid idea to try and organize an anime you can take seriously around a GAME
Although I don't like very much Akagi, I believe you could give a chance to some other anime about games (or sports), since you might miss great shows. IMO.
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>>11315097
Yugi never had a gun in his mouth.
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>>11315118
He isn't, because the point of his character is to be a monster. It's part the story or whatever.
Similar to how Haruhi Suzumiya has qualities that one might call sueish, the godlike powers she has is the CORE OF THE SHOW.

yes i just compared akagi to haruhi
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Fucking Yoko's breast(om nom nom nom) and Nia's face (just wanna cum all over that pretty face of hers)
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>>11315125
I thought she had Naruto whiskers there for a moment...
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>>11314951

...that was the point. Gurren-Lagann is well-written because it takes into account it is a cartoon. Writing is different for cinema, theater and literature, you need to exploit your media and Gurren-Lagann managed to do this.
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>>11315152

Nia is not a Mary Sue because the point of her character was to be a fairy tale shoujo heroine. See how it works?
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>>11315153
I don't condone such actions, but it would be wrong of me to stand in your way.
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inb4 someone calls Kaiji a Mary Sue
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>>11315083
See >>11315155
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>>11315226
He is like, the opposite of a mary sue.
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>>11315197
Why is adult Nia paired with teenage Yoko?
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>>11315152
Haruhi wasn't a Mary Sue. She had a lot of talent, and was hot, but that's about it.

She's obnoxious (Every character knows this), stubborn, idiotic, easily jealous of things, and without any sense of shame.

With Nia, no one cared for her flaws. Not even the writers.

And if these guys were such a master of their craft (You have to know your media, lol), they wouldn't have attempted to throw so many bullshit drama at people watching a Sunday morning cartoon.

I'm still waiting for Doraemon to kill off one of its characters. They hinted to it 200 episodes ago, so its good writing.
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>>11315166

i vomit'd
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>>11315246
But I'm forty percent sure someone here would argue that point, just because they could.
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the only character i liked in Gl was the Spiral King
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>>11315253
Why not?
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Also, does anyone else get mad flashbacks when they listen to Amon Tobin's "The Lighthouse"?
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>>11315254

Macross and Ideon where Saturday Morning Cartoons. You don't seem to be that knowable of the Japanese animation industry.
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FUCKING AUTOSAGE
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>>11315295
Because adult Yoko has bigger tits?
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>>11315338
Yeah they were SATURDAY morning cartoons and >>11315254 said that GL and Doraemon were/are SUNDAY morning cartoons. Saturday isn't the same as Sunday last time I checked, even in Japan.
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>>11315402
But superior symmetrical docking is superior.
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doraemon is timeless

GL is forgettable
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The only thing that made GL a little better than your average shonen is that it ended when it had to. Instead of keeping up FOREVER.

If naruto had finished after just few arcs it would been basically the same thing.

If you really think that GL writters didnt add up things at the end you are retarded. Period.

Explain me what part of the post timeskip BS, with Rossiu's government and simon being president was foreshadowed?.
That shit didnt even belong there. And with there i mean a super-robot show.

They obviously came up with that arc later.

Also somebody talked about the sudden plot twists of code geass, What about nia suddenly becoming the anti-spiral messenger, but that was foreshadowed when she was introduced right?.
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Some nice Yoko images in this thread. You always do Yoko justice, TN.
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>>11315457
My pleasure. Mutual exchange is a wonderful thing.

Also, in during tripfag circlejerk.
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But seriously, someone get back to me on the Amon Tobin thing. I want to say it's from Toonami or something, but I could just be losing my mind.
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Last one, since this thread is already autosaged anyways.



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