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Yoko & Nia > Asuka & Rei

Discuss.
>>
I think you are dumb as hell. I love Yoko, hate Nia. Meanwhile I will be willing to give up one of my limbs for a three way between Rei and Asuka.
>>
Yoko > Asuka > Rei > shitty mary sue
>>
You are wrong.
>>
ZOMG TEH REI >>>>> other 3 cunts
discuss
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Nia > the other three cunts
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>>11288474

Only faggots hate Nia.
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They'd certainly be much more fun to be around.
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Rei = Asuka > Shit > Yoko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nia.
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>>11288475

Asuka > Nia > loltits > old and busted TEH REI
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>>11288453
>>11288475
>>11288491
you got me,faggots
i fukken rage'd
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>>11288497
I don't hate her but I don't feel anything for her, she just isn't endearing.
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>>11288500

Nia > Yoko > Asuka > shit >>>>>>>>> Rei
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Also, this.
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>>11288506
THIS ANON IS CORRECT!
>>
>>11288510

>>11288474
>hate

...
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Superior.
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>>11288475
>Mary Sue

Mary Sue means a character with skills and traits that destroy suspension of disbelief. If you're going to use shitty fanfiction.net terms at least use them correctly.
>>
>>11288534
I'm not that anon.
Also Lark+Nono>>>>All
>>
Shitty character lovers ITT.
>>
Nia and Yoko will never be able to produce as much fanboy drama and shitstorms as Asuka and Transcendentalism did.
>>
>>11288550
Perfect in every way, look very different compared to everyone else, really pure hearted.
Oh but she can't cook... Oh wait.
>>
Misato > Haruko > Ninamori > Noriko > Nia > Lark > Mahoro > Nono > Asuka > Nadia > Mamimi > Yoko > Chiko > Jung > Onee-Sama > Rei

/thread
>>
>>11288597
>>Nia > Lark > Mahoro
Die please.
>>
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>>11288597
Nono really shouldn't be that far back.
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>>11288596

How is being socially retarded being perfect? She would have died if it wasn't for Simon, just like Kamina's idiocy would have killed him if it wasn't for Simon. The only reason Nia was as flawless was Simon's existence. And she never killed suspension of disbelief, hence she is not a Mary Sue.
>>
>>11288596
You forgot socially retarded and sheltered to the point of dysfunction. Which, given, was fixed after about seven years, but still.
>>
>>11288596
>>Perfect in every way
>>Oh but she can't cook... Oh wait.
derp
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I will always love Misato ;_;
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Lark > X

Delicious forehead.
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>>11288607

For having a taste different from yours? Learn to "tolerance", please.
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>>11288619
Socially retarded? It's NEVER considered a fault in the anime therefore it's not a bad thing against her, it just show how pure hearted she really is.
Also SAVED BY THE POWER OF LOVE LOL
>>
>>11288608
favorite gainax female right here
>>
>>11288624

How were her social skills fixed? Watch episode 17 again.
>>
>>11288497

Not really. She is only a appealing to a certain range of people. Fall out of that range, and Nia is not that interesting.
>>
>>11288619
That only makes her ^______^ KAWAII AND MOE.
>>
>>11288647
Love? In my Super Robo? Get out.
>>
>>11288597

Rei>Ninamori>>>>Everyone else
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>>11288652

Nia is more popular with females than with males, really. She is an stereotypical shoujo heroine.
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All other Gainax works have more interesting characters than GL.
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>>11288651
Because romanticism is something that comes to EVERYBODY naturally. If not completely fixed, it was at least much better than before.
>>
Yukino>>>>>>>>Everyone.
>>
I raged.
>>
>>11288667

>Nono
>Lark
>interesting

0/10
>>
Yoko >>>>> Asuka >>>>>>>>>>>> Nia and Rei, same shit
>>
>>11288677
He says "compared to GL", it's not really a feat.
>>
>>11288652

Nia is more well-liked than disliked, really.
>>
>>11288666
She is more popular because she is the main character's love interest. Her having a lot of screentime also gave her popularity. Like how Rossiu was more popular than say, Kittan because he was a major character.
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>>11288682

But characters in Diebuster have the same depth GL's characters do. Characters in Evangelion have the same depth, too. FLCL has the only well-rounded Gainax character in Mamimi.
>>
>>11288702
>>depth
LOL
>>
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Insurance Girls > Some other dumb sluts
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>>11288550

In addition to being a fairy princess with flower eyes, according to stuff that came out after the show she is one of the smartest people in the world, can create and control her own army of Mugen, the only person other than Simon that Lagann accepted as it's pilot, a volleyball champion, It was her Idea to make the Kamina Statue not Simon's, etc, etc.

Look I hated the Mary Sue comparisons at first, but the more we learn about the character, the more she fits the mold. The writer just got too attached to the character and overwrote her.
>>
>>11288685

People can like minor characters over major characters. That's what happened with Bleach and Hitsugaya.
>>
>>11288702
HOW DO YOU MEASURE THIS SHIT???
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>>11288751
Universal Media Scale
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>>Yoko & Nia > Asuka & Rei

lol no.

my internets to anyone who can edit out fuckhead from this picture. in b4 someone edits out one of the girls.
>>
>>11288763
Explain what this is. I never payed attention to Cirno when he talked about GL.
>>
>>11288773
You know I really don't remember because it was all tl;dr
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>>11288722

Who cares if she is smart is she never does anything with her intelligence? That's not being a Mary Sue, that's just keeping with the idea that she is Genome's genetic daughter. She's not a volleyball champion, she just played volleyball. And the "mugann" army was just an explanation for why they disappeared when Nia was recalled to the Anti-Spiral base.

Those things don't break suspension of disbelief and obviously don't give her traits beyond the rest of the cast when Simon's Spiral Energy can fucking break a hole in space time.
>>
>>11288751
Get an enema.
Eat a hearty meal.
Watch your anime.
Stick a ruler up your ass until it hits shit.
That's the depth of the anime you just watched.

Repeat for each series - note that the quantity and composition of food consumed should be the same each time.
>>
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>>11288765
Fixed.
>>
Eva and FLCL characters are generally characterized better than Diebuster and GL
Super Robo genre, do you know it?
>>
>>11288765
Yeesh. Just open photoshop, use the eyedropper to copy the exact hue of red on the background, make a new layer, and carefully blot him out.

It's not fucking hard.
>>
>>11288786
Kind of like how her being "socially retarded" is never considered a fault in the anime therefore you can't hold it against her.
What "faults" does she have then?
>>
>>11288773
Most of animes made by Gainax can be measured by the Universal Scale since they're made for artistic integrity, unlike the moe shit we see everyday on /a/.

And the Universal Scale applies not just to anime, but to movies, music and art in general so it's a big achievement when an anime gets approved by it.
>>
>>11288811
Just die already, that scale is pure shit and you know it.
>>
Character depth is subjective, it depends on how close the spectator gets to the character. Claiming one of them inherently superior is just lame, specially since all of the Gainax girls are larger-than-life and have unrealistic personalities since that's the whole point of their existence. If someone claims that Asuka is superior to Rei or that Nia is superior to Yoko or similar opinionated shit, they're not stating a fact but their own attachment to the character.
>>
>>11288811
BUT WHAT IS IT??
Google gives me a 404 link to /u/.
>>
Nia is a Mary Sue.

Dark, tragic past? Check.
Unique hair and/or eye color? Check.
Main character's love interest? Check.
Loved by all? Check.
Became bad, but was still not bad? Check.
Last scene was about her? Check.
>>
>>11288809
Good god, name me some "faults" in Yoko, Kiyoh and Kiyal then.
>>
Aspects of an anime is only as "deep" as the viewer makes it.

GL has purposefully more 2d/iconic characters while the ones in Eva are supposed to be realistic but all nutcases.
>>
>>11288809

Every single character flaw in narrative is not a real flaw but a trait you create for people to get attached to a character. Still, being socially retarded has killed characters before... Nia only survived due to Simon.

>>11288794

No. The level of characterization in those four shows is pretty much on the same level. The presentation is different, but they're really the same.
>>
Rei= shit
Asuka= annoying shit
Yoko= tits
Nia=...shitty shit

Yoko win.
>>
>>11288825
Thank you, you cleansed my soul a bit.
Nia = Mary Sue fags can go to hell. You just don't like the character, we get it. Now calm down. And stop turning 4chan into fanfiction.net. Call her "generic moeblob" or something, at least.
>>
>>11288850

Evangelion's character are as "iconic" and "2D" as GL's but are protrayed in a negative light. Most of them have exceedingly simple traits that are played up for theme delivery, that's the reason they became that emblematic.
>>
>>11288453
here's truce, Yoko + Asuka > Nia + Rei
^^
>>
Comparing Asuka and Rei to Nia and Yoko is unfair. Nia and Yoko are from super robo show, where basically everyone is likeable and positive and get along. Rei and Asuka are from the show where everyone is fucked-up, twisted, and try to commit suicide, and turn into tang.
>>
>>11288879

But generic moeblobs are retarded and extremely flawed due to their retardedness. Nia is a flawless Mary Sue.
>>
Yoko killed two good characters.

Nia killed the show.

That is all.
>>
>>11288870
No, she never was in a situation where she was a danger by this fault or where Simon had to cover for her.
You see socially retarded, I see PURE HEARTED VIRGINAL PRINCESS WHO IS THE NICEST CHARACTER IN THE WORLD.
>>
>>11288896
Someone LOVE that and hate 'perfect' characters like in GL and the like.
>>
The characters in GL are not really characterized that well or unique. They are all very one-faced (literally too, how many times did everyone but simon's mood change?).
So whether you like Nia or Yoko or really anyone in GL depends on how much you like what you see first. So if you hate clueless princess characters you will hate Nia how she acts later will not change your mind on her.

Baccano is a bit similar with some of its characters.
>>
>>11288915
That's why it's not fair. One would often clearly prefer one over the other. Make it Asuka and Nia vs Yoko and Rei and that'd be more interesing.
>>
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>>11288800
And just to show you, here.

Next time do it yourself.
>>
In reality, characterization is extremely simple. Both something realistic or something larger-than-life are supposed to be portrayed in a straight-forward fashion.
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>>11288765
I'm far from good at this but 3 mins in photoshop.
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>>11288934
>,how she acts later will not make you change your mind on her
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ZOMG TEH REI
Asuka is hawt

Fuck the rest.
>>
>>11288839

We're not discussing them here.
We're discussing Nia.

You can try to divert the discussion away from her so we won't notice, but that is not going to happen.
>>
>>11288934

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Characters in fiction are not inherently good due to being original or multi layered. Emblematic icons of literature like Don Quixote or Sherlock Holmes are very simple, straight-forward characters that portray a single idea.
>>
>>11288976

Problem is, the only reason Nia's "purity" didn't backfired on her face was Simon. Take Simon away and she would either die or grow up into a complete emotional mess.
>>
>>11288978
Iconic characters are not always ideal.
It is hard for the viewer to sympathise with the characters if they do not feel real to them.
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Have you forsaken Rei, /a/?
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>>11288976
Good job proving that your point is moot. Goodbye.
>>
>>11288837

She's also a freaking princess.
daughter of the main villain
takes the place of a major character
becomes the only support of another main character
upstages a main character
and more
>>
>>11289004
No, ZOMG TEH REI cannot be forgiven. We will remember ZOMG TEH REI like we did for the last 10 years when everybody won't even recall who Yoko or Nia were.
>>
>>11288934
you're a simpleton and a fucking shitsniffer
>>
>>11288934

The characters in Evangelion are similarly one-faced, honestly. They all showcase a single mindset. FLCL is pretty much the same being with Haruko being too idolized to portray actual character development.
>>
>>11288997
>>Take Simon away
Who the fuck cares about hypothetical situations like that? Talking about what happened in the anime there
It was fucking NEVER portrayed as a fault, if they wanted to make a point they would have put a scene where it was.
>>
>>11289027
Fuck, I wrote forgiven instead of forgotten.
I guess she can't be forgiven as well anyway.
>>
>>11288999

Anime characters will never feel "real", that's why they're drawn in the first place.
>>
>>11289051
Qualities that will make the viewer feel some kind of emotional connection. Realism to some degree.
>>
>>11288837

Simon was a Mary Sue? Everything about him fits that list.
>>
>>11289009

Dude. You did the exact same thing.
>>
>>11289068
Not really.
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>>11289065

And what is "realism" to a degree?
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Yoko: Great body, good personality

Nia: Skinny body, okay personality (funky but nice), annoying voice

Asuka: Great body, total bitch

Rei: Great body, no personality

So by my reckoning, Yoko > Nia = Rei > Asuka
>>
>>11289068
Gary Stu
>>
>>11289020
>>11288837

If this is what defines a Mary Sue, then I guess Mary Sue is a worthless term in the end. Specially since stuff "loved by everyone" means nothing among the Gurren-Lagann cast, who are probably some the nicest people out there.
>>
>>11289090
HAVING MORE THAN ONE CHARACTER TRAIT.
Nia is a cute naive princess, nothing more.
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>>11289068
Simon actually develops during the anime, Nia doesn't or at least never beyond her initial state.
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I liked Yoko and Nia better when their names were Anemone and Eureka.
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Mary Sue has nothing to do with "tragic past" or "being loved by everyone". Mary Sue's only definition is a character whose skills and traits kill suspension of disbelief.
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>>11289144
>Nia is a cute naive princess, nothing more.
>Nia is a love interest, nothing more.

fix'd.
>>
>>11288950

thanks anon
>>
>>11289169
....No.
>>
I liked Nia better when she stayed on ff.net
>>
>>11289144
>>11289170

Good job completely ignoring episodes 9-15. Nia wasn't only a "naive cute princess" or a "love interest", she was an idealist that relied too much on her father.
>>
>>11289178

But that is a Mary Sue. An idealized self-insert that kills suspension of disbelief.
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>>11289200
Good job seeing things that weren't there, of course she was an idealist and she never developed beyond that, was it shown she was wrong in any way to be one?
For the relying on her father bit, she moved pretty quickly it seems.
>>
>>11289215
No.
>>
>>11289170
>>11289144

Nia may have only one character trait, but is neither being a "naive cute princess" or a "love interest". She was the "curious complete innocent" with a mix of those "fairly tale heroines trapped in a sci-fi setting".
>>
Educate yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_sue

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm
>>
>>11289257
You're looking too much into her.
It's not there.

She is nothing more than a love interest.
Zero.
Zilch.
That's it.
>>
>>11289257
>"fairly tale heroines trapped in a sci-fi setting".
>An idealized self-insert that kills suspension of disbelief.
>>
>Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot on such a scale that suspension of disbelief fails due to the character's traits, skills and abilities being tenuously or inadequately justified.
>suspension of disbelief fails
>suspension of disbelief
>>
I'd fuck all four of them at the same time, dont care about the order
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You're all fucking retarded calling a character in an anime a Mary Sue. Not just an anime, but fucking GURREN LAGAAN. Mary Sue refers to an "unrealistic character" that garners too much spotlight for their skills/traits.

Also, she has plenty of development that you're all too fucking blind or stalwartly wrong to be able to notice. She was a device to develop Simon by always believing in him no matter what happened. And also, once she learned what would happen to her, she kept it to herself. She didn't cry for help, she didn't beg Simon to save her life. She accepted her fate and allowed Simon to fade into obscurity, keeping him from becoming that which they all worked to prevent.

tl;dr Fuck you
>>
who gives a shit about the details? the only thing different about them is the hair, face and personality.

When it comes to women,the only thing that matters is how many loads I can pump in their cunts before I collapse.
>>
>>11289271

But it was there. The DVD commentary confirms it. Nia's role was more than just a love interest just like Kamina's was more than just being Simon's mentor. You're basically ignoring the entire development she goes through.
>>
>>11289317
>GURREN LAGAAN.
>unrealistic

well duh

>She was a device to develop Simon
>>
>>11289341

Simon was a device to portray the themes of the show.
>>
>>11289317
Nia IS an unrealistic character.
Did you HONESTLY think someone as perfect as her could exist? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>>
>>11289317
>she didn't beg Simon to save her life. She accepted her fate
Uh, that's exactly what a Mary Sue does.
>>
Nia is the best followed by rei
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>>11289356

I doubt a man like Akagi could exist in the real world.
>>
>>11289341
The fuck are you trying to say? Actually say something instead of quoting me and going HURP DERP DERP you inexplicit fuck.
>>
>>11289374
Akagi doesn't fall in love with the main character, usurp the position of another main character, he's neither a beautiful moemoe princess that is loved by all...need I continue?
>>
>>11289382
You saying GL is in any way realistic is ridicilous.

>>11289374
...that's completely irrelevant.
>>
I should know if Nia is a Sue.
I used to write them.

She's a Sue.
>>
worthless thread is an eyesore.
>>
never understood the appeal for rei same goes for nia. Asuka is just a bitch. any one who likes them has shit taste or has nostalgia goggles.
>>
>>11289408
You didn't write sues uguu~.
>>
>>11289396

Nia never usurped any role. She was intended to be a main character in the show from the earlier planning stages. She can't usurp a role that always belonged to her.
>>
>>11289359
No it isn't. Read what I posted again, and quit getting your information from whatever retarded tropes site you're getting it from. Mary Sue has nothing to do with her specific actions.

>>11289356
She'd have to be unrealistic in the realm of the universe that she inhabits, and she's quite tame as far as that goes.
>>
>>11289337
>>You're basically ignoring the entire development she goes through.
Pray tell good sir.
>>
>>11289426

watching Nia is painful for me.
It's like they saw my fanfic and just...took her.
>>
>>11289404
I'm saying it ISN'T realistic in any way, so it's retarded to label anyone a Mary Sue in TTGL.
>>
Only retards or moefangirls love Nia
>>
>>11289439

Her personality was about “questioning everything”, what everyone else considered an absolute she tried to actually understand. “Why are you fighting?”, “Why do you love me?” or the like. Beyond that, she had core motivations and her personal reasoning on the world. Actions like when she told Simon to use her hands as cushions for piloting Lagann or lines like “Farewell, Father. I’ll look towards tomorrow” or “As a matter of fact, we’re completely different persons. But I believe that thanks to these differences we will be able to live together” among others are clearly characteristic.

Pre-timeskip, Nia is well aware that she doesn't know everything about her friends, but she tries very hard to learn more, and she continues believing in them because from her observations, she thinks they're trustworthy. Even when the Great Gurren Brigade were suspicious of her in the beginning, she told Simon that she still got a warm feeling from them and thought they weren't bad people. And Simon was always there for her where her father was not. When she found out her father just thought of her as a doll, Simon told her she should just live as herself, accepting her as a human being. After all that, why should she doubt him? That's just how she views things.
>>
Gurren Lagann is an insecure teenage boy's dream animu. It tells about a young nobody who ends up achieving great things as long as he believes in himself (plus with some ROW ROW WHITE-O POWER). A fucking american dream.

Since I haven't been underage b& for a few years I found the series losing its edge before halfway.
>>
I used to write fanfics. Akagi is just like the Gary Stues I used to write. Seeing him is painful.
>>
nia is a shit character but rei and asuk are just as bad
>>
>>11289506
Gainax doesn't care about female character design
>>
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Konata has more characterization than anyone in GL. Gainax shitsux.

KyoAni, instead of trying to create a shitty script, like certain other companies(i.e. LOL GAINAX or LOL GONZO), focuses on the quality of what they do. FMP, the Key series, Haruhi, and even Lucky Star, all were made larger than life in ways other companies couldn't dream of by KyoAni, because they allowed for the inspirational interpretation to flow. The reason they made it big? Because they brought the characters to life. Some people can't understand this, being total faggots. For example, NGE? It was just the story of some timid faggot going through an early mid-life crises with a few biblical references added in. Emo and Christianity: no wonder you kids loved it so much. He admitted it himself, don't try to deny it. GL? Hey, the last faggot anime we made was about Christianity, so lets make this one about evolution! How does that work? Well, any fifth grade student knows that evolution works in corruption of DNA, which is a...GASP... DOUBLE HELIX! Maybe we should make a stereotypical shounen story with a bit of this theme and turn things around with our bad end and then it will be ORIGINAL CONTENT. Genius!

God damn, you guys are stupid. Fags hate KyoAni because they don't produce the plot for their anime? Well then, I guess the animes for The Twelve Kingdoms and Legend of the Galactic Heroes are both shit, because both originated as novels.
>>
>>11289485

Then why did Simon , lose the girl, got all his followers killed, and become a failed hero?
>>
How come only Nia fanboys go batshit when people call her a Mary Sue?
How come none of the Nanoha fags do it? How come only the Nia fans write paragraph upon paragraph defending her???
>>
>>11289485

Gurren-Lagann is a show about "progress", represented the collision between past and future, the "BELIEVE IN YOURSELF" stuff was just a genre quirk.
>>
>>11289519
Because marriage isn't freedom.
>>
>>11289533

Because NanohaFAGs are happy so long she ends up with Fate. They only rage when they pair her with Yuuno.
>>
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Rei > Yoko > Asuka > Nia

Nia's a dumb Mary Sue bitch.
>>
>>11289533
Because that hasn't happened recently?
>>
>>11289533
Magical Girl is a different genre.
Nanoha is the main character anyway, she is the equivalent of Simon, not just a tagalong love interest.
>>
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>>11289533
Not a Nia fanboy.
>>
Asuka > *

fix'd
>>
Haruko > shit > everyone else
>>
Nia > Asuka > Yoko > Rei

Rei is a bad Lana-copypasta.
>>
>>11289533

You picked the wrong character my friend. I once called Hayate an overpowered Mary Sue and the Nanoha fans went berserk.
>>
Nia > Asuka > Yoko > Rei

Rei sucks. When the second one showed emotion, I started liking her, but then she died. And the third one was boring, like the first.
>>
>>11289533
Nanoha is a superheroine in magical girls' clothing.
>>
>>11289518
fail,people hate kyoani for: moe, ecchi, loli, ugu~, >_<, niaaaa, ;_; BAWWWWWWWWW

IMO Suzumiya is a great show, and FMP is decent, but Air, Clannad, Kanon... both same shit.
>>
>>11289601
Hayate is in a wheelchair.
Does not compute.
>>
>>11289638
>>moe, ecchi, loli, ;_; BAWWWWWWWWW
Those people are fake Gainax fans.
>>
Gainax is the worst anime studio. All their characters are horrible.
>>
Fuck you guys. Nia is awesome. She may not be CRAWLING IN HER SKIN with her flaws, but that doesn't make her some Mary Sue, which you are using incorrectly.

Nia is a moemoe princess, and if you guys weren't such massive fags, you'd know that there are moemoe girls out there making her an accurate, if iconic, representation of a certain type of woman.
>>
>>11289839
Yes, she is representative of the cancer killing anime.

Now I like the ending so much better.
>>
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>>11289851

A cancer killing anime since the 70's?
>>
Rei>Yoko>Nia~Asuka
>>
>>11289851

Fag, and I suppose you like Tsundere? Or "mature" women? They're all stereotypical representations of real types of women, no one being inherently different or superior from the other.
>>
Nia defiantly is 100x better than Rei, but Yoko isn't tsundere enough to replace Asuka.
>>
>>11289858
Candy was far superior because she actually MOVED beyond her initial self.
>>
>>11289924

Just like episode 27 Nia.
>>
>>11289946
She moved in that episode? It was just her being perfect like always.
>>
>>11289946
DISAPPEARING =!= character growth

A character being based on an archetype is not necessarily bad, but it is if the character does nothing to differentiate themselves from the formula.
>>
>>11289946
Not really, it was just irony that she falls because she physically was just like her character was. Inhuman.
>>
>>11288475
agreed
>>
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>>11289839

QFT. I used to hate Nia when she first showed up because she seemed to be the usual annoying moeblobprincess. The type I really hate. But she's more than meets the eye but you faggots are all too blind to see that.

Naivety does not equal Mary Sue.
>>
>>11289964

So, by your definition, every character in anime is a terrible character.
>>
Nobody in the show dislikes Nia.
And the ones that did either;

regretted it and started to like her later
or
died
>>
>>11289987
Now you are getting the right idea.
>>
>>11289987
No. A character can be BASED on a common stereotype (tsundere, shy girl or whatever) but it is up to the author to flesh the character out and make them into more than charicatures.
>>
>>11289964
>>11289960

Nia on episode 9 = Emotionally dependent on Lord Genome
Nia on episode 15 = Emotionally dependent on Simon(in all fairness, Simon was equally dependent on her), without true understanding of her father's motivations.
Nia on episode 27 = Decides to die without asking for anyone's help, forgives her father
>>
>>11290013

And that's exactly what they DIDN'T do to Nia.
>>
>>11290013
>>11290044

But Nia was fleshed out plentiful.
Her personality was about “questioning everything”, what everyone else considered an absolute she tried to actually understand. “Why are you fighting?”, “Why do you love me?” or the like. Beyond that, she had core motivations and her personal reasoning on the world. Actions like when she told Simon to use her hands as cushions for piloting Lagann or lines like “Farewell, Father. I’ll look towards tomorrow” or “As a matter of fact, we’re completely different persons. But I believe that thanks to these differences we will be able to live together” among others are clearly characteristic.

Pre-timeskip, Nia is well aware that she doesn't know everything about her friends, but she tries very hard to learn more, and she continues believing in them because from her observations, she thinks they're trustworthy. Even when the Great Gurren Brigade were suspicious of her in the beginning, she told Simon that she still got a warm feeling from them and thought they weren't bad people. And Simon was always there for her where her father was not. When she found out her father just thought of her as a doll, Simon told her she should just live as herself, accepting her as a human being. After all that, why should she doubt him? That's just how she views things.
>>
>>11290041
The thing is that the first 2 states weren't developed that well, therefore her development seemed to lack compared to the other characters and when the last episode came it just seemed she was like always, always proper and perfect in every situations.
Basically the problem was in her execution.
>>
>>11290008
Now that's a bit Mary Sue-ish.
>>
>>11290064
Not enough screentime was devoted to really show her personality, probably because she was always seen from the POV of another character.
>>
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>>11288453
shit OP 10/10
>>
Yoko. Her kisses are to die for.
>>
>>11290089

How was her execution different from Kamina or Yoko?
>>
>>11290103

What do you want a step by step look at each personal development, down to a Light-esque explaination of the events leading up to it and the processes behind it?

That sort of development would have destroyed the pacing of GL, which was one of it's better points.
>>
>>11290103
>>11290089

Really? I thought that along with the obvious Simon and Kamina Nia was the best developed character in the show. Consider Gurren-Lagann never had "introspective narrations" or similar devices, all development was conducted through visual mannerisms.
>>
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Nia being a marysue didn't bother me so much since I never thought of her as a "human". She's more like...a muse.
>>
>>11290151

Besides, she's the main female character of the movie so they will probably add more scenes with her to that cut.
>>
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>>11290134
We really understood their worries, they actually had flows in their personality. Nia never went beyond being an plot device for Simon, her personality wasn't fleshed enough to really stand by itself.
>>
how many marysue does gainax have
>>
>>11290161
>>visual mannerisms
Oh it's you again, just shut up please.
>>
>>11290216
Nia is the only really blatant one.
>>
>>11290214

But we really understood Nia's character by episode 11 and the flow of her personality was way beyond a "plot device" for Simon's progress.
>>
>>11290226

What's the matter? Picking up on visual clues instead of internal monologue too DEEP for you?
>>
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Shiki>Kohaku>Asuka>Rei>Kero>Sakura=Tomoyo>All that is anime>This chair. This chair. This chair. This chair. This chair. This chair. This chair. This chair. This chair. This chair. This chair! THIS CHAIR IS AN EYESORE!!!!!
>>
>>11290216
A million

Japan CANNOT write females.
>>
>>11290226

Who is "me"? The only person that actually thinks character development is different from writer's speak?
>>
I'm pissed because Nia did not only replace Kamina, she also replaced Yoko.
Grr.
>>
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>>11290255
It's happening. Cirno was right...
>>
>>11290255
No, thinking it's the only vial tool to develop character or that it's enough by itself like you seem to think is retarded.
>>
>>11290264
examples
>>
>>11290284
>>vial
Viable
>>
>>11290284

It's not THE ONLY TOOL, but it is enough by itself. You really need a narration telling you what is happening on screen? You're not doing anything different from typing "NO YOU", at least make a point.
>>
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>>11290281
Fuuuuuuuuck.
>>
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>>11290293

They're divided in wish-fulfilling archetypes:

a) Ahiru, Sakura, Usagi, Cutey Honey
b) Kino, Motoko Kusanagi, Rukia, Balsa
c) Haruhi, Asuka, Shana
d) Yuki, Rei, Lala-Ru
>>
>>11290307
It's enough by itself when it's done in a really good way, it wasn't that good in GL and that's why a lot of people have some problem with Nia.
>>
>>11290284

What did you want her to give a speech inside her mind, talking about how she felt different?

No, like ACTUAL REAL PEOPLE, she didn't have epiphanies she went through a small change in personality, even though it is there. Episode 11 Nia is different from Episode 15 Nia who is different from Episode 27 Nia. The fact that you can't pin down when this happened exactly is called good character development.
>>
Japan CANNOT write males.
>>
>>11290359

Your argument is basically "a lot of people feel that way..." now? Funny, since Nia is more well-liked than disliked and in Gainax polls she ended as the third most popular character in the show behind Simon and Kamina.
>>
>>11290362
>>Episode 11 Nia is different from Episode 15 Nia who is different from Episode 27 Nia
That's where you are wrong, the fact that she didn't have any apparent change in her personality during the whole course of the show is why some think she is a Mary Sue.
>>
>>11290391

But she is different, her beliefs are different and her relationships with the surrounding characters are different.
>>
>>11290389
I didn't make it my argument, I don't really care about the polls or the fact that some people love/hate her, I don't hate either. I just think that as a character she could have been better executed.
>>
>>11290372
QFT
>>
>>11290391

But they are different even though her demeanor hasn't changed much. Rarely if ever do people change their entire demeanor, as apparently some people in this thread wanted. Having people do so without some sort of traumatic event is just poor character development.
>>
Nia is a mary sue because of her appearance, personality and role.

There.
>>
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>>11290391
>>the fact that she didn't have any apparent change in her personality during the whole course of the show
>>
>>11290414
Her belief? Believing in people no matter what, same thing as at the beginning.
Her relationship? Love everyone, loved by everyone, same thing.
>>
>>11290417

Fine, and you're free to believe that. I won't force you into thinking otherwise, attachment to a character is something completely dependent on the spectator himself.
>>
>>11290447

Oversimplification without examples is truly the top level of /a/'s intellectual abilities.
>>
>>11290472
That's what you were doing during this thread too, why don't you show some pertinent examples then.
>>
>>11290503
What makes you think he was a member of this topic?
>>
>>11290503

Deal with the copy-pasta first.
>>
>>11290527
The copypasta only deal with her initial state from before the timeskip.
>>
>>11290447

She doesn't love everyone. I don't think she loved Guame or the Anti-Spiral. I don't think she hated them either. Nia's beliefs are not just "trusting people", she believes in a looser approach to government. That power shouldn't oppress. That "force" is never the way. The reason she trusted Simon were how she felt his love for Kamina in the little statues.
>>
>>11290566

Her development post-timeskip was fairly blatant really, Anti-Spiral Nia was mostly an exaggerated tsundere.
>>
>>11290612

Let's see:
-Nia understood the Anti-Spiral's reasoning for fearing Spiral Power
-Nia decided to die because she felt it was her responsibility to not force Simon into the abuse of Spiral Power.
-The fact that she came to terms with this is actually pretty determinant since the other characters you can tell truly understood the Anti-Spiral's motivations were Simon and Genome.
>>
>>11290612
Anti-spiral Nia is fail and shouldn't be talked about in this thread.
>>
GUYS

GL IS SLIGHTLY ABOVE AVERAGE CLICHÈD SHOUNEN SHIT

YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT TOO DEEP

IN JUST BEFORE BUMP LIMIT
>>
>>11290684

Prejudice, kills any attempt at coherent discussion.

Also, 0/10. Too late into the thread.
>>
This discussion about Nia has guarenteed that I'm going to like her, because she must be pretty awesome for all this psuedo saging. Now I'm going to like her and be yet another person allying myself to her cult. I bet she provides cookies.. mmm cookies.



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