It's finally here folks, the Great Depression has arrived. Steal some anime, rob a kid of his manga and buy some necessities because hard time are upon us.
Don't forget to pick up a suit & hat.
Here in Egypt camel herders won't give you a ride unless you pay up in Euros.
Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pale of water. Don't forget to bring condoms.
Has episode 14 been subbed yet?
And don't forget, slav = money/job/food/air stealers. Kill them before they take what is rightfully yours.
Speaking of Depression era America, I want to see a Shadow Hearts anime.
Gee another rate cut, I wish Volcker would come back & raise interest rates by 20%.
Enjoying Persona, are ya?
We need a massive one-time "re-boot"..
Set a date ..say June, 1, 2008...for every person making less than $200K per year
Start the clock NOW.(so people do not deliberately run-up their purchases)
What happens on June1?
Whatever your house value is on June 1.. That's what your mortgage debt/loan is re-set at. (adjusted for what you have paid in, if you have been in your house for a long time, and are near paying it off)
Maximum mortgage rates should be set at , say no more than 8%, and no less than 5%...and should all be no less than 10 year ..and should ALL be fixed-rate. And they should be based on your real ability to re-pay..(there will still be some losers who "bought" houses they never could afford)
Make it illegal to do "cash-out" re-fis, and limit re-fis to only 1 every 10 years.
Your credit cards are CANCELLED...ALL of them.
So is your credit card debt!
Set minimum interest for bank savings accounts at 5%..
Outlaw equity loans for anyone who has not physically lived in and paid on their home less than 7 years...and set the maximum equity to be available for withdrawl, at no more than 5% of equity.
Income tax deduction for interest on primary residence ONLY..(specifically rental properties, run as businesses should be addressed separately)..
make gasoline expenses , & auto loan interest (cars under $30K) deductible for everyone..not just for long form filers.
Make all medical expenses (even co-pays) deductible for everyone
ITT: things you would never see during /a/ /a/fter school.
Like that'll happen. Amerikkka will just keep trying to save it's rotten economy by continually pumping money into it. HELLO HYPER INFLATION!!!!
Nice future you left for this generation Amerikkkan government.
Perhaps the Mayans did know something when they ended their calender at 2012.
It's not just this administration though, this shit began with Regan. The deregulation bullshit did us in, I just hope we can have a revolution after the dust settles.
MAD MAX FUTURE?
America has been handling economy the same way for at least 30 years now. I think it's beginning to show its age. The Federal Reserve is dumping money into the economy and we're all gonna see the prices of shit skyrocket, what with the dollar losing value and all.
Tell me about it, just yesterday I had to pay $2.10 for a bottle of Pepsi.
Start buying up JEWGOLDS?
Fuck no. Gold is skyrocketing. Stay the fuck away from gold.
Does this mean I can start wearing dress shirts and ties (loosened up of course) dress pants, dress shoes, grow a permanent five o'clock shadow, smoke cigarettes and drive around in my gas guzzler?
gold is like 1k a troy ounce now or some shit?
You just want it all for yourself.
I for one welcome our new European overlords... wait a sec, that doesn't sound right.
Wha- Where in the fuck do you live? I live in NYC and a 20-ounce is 1.25.
You can have everything but the gas guzzler, oil just $111. Bloomberg says it'll go up to $200.
OVER ONE THOUSAND
HOLY JESUS HORESHIT BATMAN
yeah i'm sure you'll convince the people with money and power to forgive all your debts
I live in Queens and I bought a 2-Liter bottle, retail price is $1.75 but with tax it's a bit higher.
Regan was just a really good poser. He's the only flaw in the diamond era that was the 80's. Don't forget about his "contribution" to the Middle East
by abandoning them without education after Charlie Wilson helped them defeat the Soviets. Last thing: Operation Coffee Pot. Watch SiCKO. And STFU about Moore. At least he's not Fox "News" level distorting.
It actually calls for 7-year amnesty in the Bible, however...the moneychangers would never spew that particular passage...they just count on "the faithful" letting others read the Bible to them instead of reading it themselves.
I do believe that if our tax money can go effortlessly to bail out companies, that we are owed...JUST ONCE...a complete amnesty.
I'm going to sell my soul at the crossroads, take up guitar, smoke cigarettes and wear a fancy hat.
Then I'll become a legendary bluesman.
Gold = old and busted. Copper is the new awesome.
Anyway, America is screwed.
Look at any city maps. Suburbs, no public transportation facilities. How will a car civilisation handle oil at 200, 300$ the barrel ?
That's it, I'm moving to Canada.
enjoy the devil taking your wife and child
I'll be listening to "Cocaine".
Nah, Moore's about equal to Fox News in the distortion sense.
ITT IT'S THE 70'S ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!!
I've got to get around to learning Mandarin. I need to be on the good side of our future Chinese overlords.
Thank God I live in New York, subways may be smelly & dangerous but at least you can go places.
U GONNA GET RAPED.
I wasn't born in the 70's so I don't know much about that recession. Did we have bank failures back then?
subways suck, I went there last year and the subways were like a fucking sauna, way hotter than street level. Every fucking pore on your body would open up as soon as you went down the stairs.
Additionally the niggers driving them call out stops and they have fucking mouthfuls of peanut butter so you never know where the fuck you are.
In this topic, /a/ proves that it doesn't know how economies work.
"There are two constants in humanity. First, everything is continuously getting better. Second, people are convinced that everything is getting worse."
1 At the end of every seven years you must cancel debts. 2 This is how it is to be done: Every creditor shall cancel the loan he has made to his fellow Israelite. He shall not require payment from his fellow Israelite or brother, because the LORD's time for canceling debts has been proclaimed. 3 You may require payment from a foreigner, but you must cancel any debt your brother owes you.
But this Anonymous apparently does.
I know enough economics to know I don't know shit about economics.
I do, however, know that economies work in cycles. This downturn's been coming for a while.
Also, anyone who got a variable rate mortgage with a low teaser basically deserves what they got. Seriously, read your fucking contracts people.
Enlighten us King in Yellow. You're probably a filthy chink.
>"There are two constants in humanity. First, everything is continuously getting better. Second, people are convinced that everything is getting worse."
Africa is getting worse since 40 years already.
But oh, wait I almost forgot. They are niggers.
DID SOMEONE SAY ECONOMICS!?!?!?
Problem is Wall Street is begging the Fed to buy up some of the crap, which means hard earned tax dollars are going to be used to buy junk mortgages.
I wonder what the govt. will do with all those houses?
They should be used as homeless shelters.
that's it Lelouch. cry like the bitch you are.
Put jews in them and set em on fire?
I'm just saying that I don't think there should be bail outs for people who can't be arsed to read a contract and see how badly they'd get assfucked by it.
And yes, I know that there are a lot of unscrupulous lenders out there, and they should be punished, but if you loan to someone in good faith and they go 'lolcan'tpayyou', it's not really your fault.
Let Katrina victims li-oh wait, they're all niggers. Fuck em.
>I do, however, know that economies work in cycles. This downturn's been coming for a while.
>I don't know shit about economics.
Yeah indeed, you don't know shit about economics.
So, when do we get these so-called Stimulus checks?
What have you done to rorenzu?
That's the first thing you learn in any economics class.
ITT WE FREAK THE FUCK OUT
Economics class? That's far beyond what anyone in here has taken. They're all just talking out of their asses.
In a couple of news sources, most notably NPR, I've noticed over the past few weeks that they often don't give the Dow's actual closing numbers. They'll say "the Dow finished up 82 points" or "the Dow closed down 111," but they don't reveal what the ending total is.
Is this just a matter of course, or do they tend to keep hush-hush about it when the closing numbers might seem unacceptably negative? It wouldn't seem to take too much effort to include both the ending total and the net amount of movement for the day, after all.
Has this always been the case? If not, how long has this practice been the standard?
>That's the first thing you learn in any economics class.
Wow. Are you saying they teach TRUTH in economics class ?
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Bear Stearns Cos Inc (BSC.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Chairman Jimmy Cayne was playing cards in a tournament late last week while his company's future appeared to be at risk, according a published report.
As the bank hammered out an emergency funding deal on Thursday with the Federal Reserve and JPMorgan Chase (JPM.N: Quote, Profile, Research), which resulted in Bear's shares falling by as much as half, Cayne was playing in the North American Bridge Championship in Detroit, The Wall Street Journal reported on its Web site on Friday.
Cayne, who in January stepped down as Bear Stearns' long-time chief executive, is no stranger to controversy about his hobbies. Last year he was criticized for spending too much time playing bridge and golf while Bear stumbled on wrong-way bets on subprime mortgages.
Everyone knows the average citizen would shit his/her pants and run round like a chicken with its head cut off if they were to reveal the truth.
If it's NPR, they're probably trying to conceal a really positive-sounding number.
This doesn't surprise me one bit, heck I suspect a lot of these CEO s probably troll /b/ on a daily basis.
I doubt you'd act any differently, were you to become a CEO.
>Chairman Jimmy Cayne was playing cards in a tournament late last week while his company's future appeared to be at risk, according a published report.
If I was CEO I'd stay in my office and masturbate to promotions.
that doesn't take into account relativity
if a bunch of people are eating dirt, and ten years later three of them are eating hamburgers and the rest of them are eating slightly better-tasting dirt, things TECHNICALLY got better for them
Well the dirt tastes better. Things aren't GOOD, but they're getting better. At that rate, they'll move up to dirt that's downright delicious.
Indeed. Iran Iraq, Kuwait, Oman & Brunei trade their oil in EUROS. Once UAE/Saudi Arania does the same, USA is fucked. And if the Arab petroleum producing countries decide to convert their oil profits into gold, it create an economic implosion especially in the US that'd make the Crash of 29 & the Great Depression seem like a picnic. USA needs to kiss major Sand Nigger arse to ensure the Saudis/Emirates sell their oil in Dollars, House of Saud funds the clerics who maintain Wahhabiism in Saudi (who in turn indoctrinate Al-Qaeda's leaders - including You-Know-Who!). Helluva paradox, eh? Win the 'War On Terror'? Forget it.
Meanwhile, enjoy your spiralling inflation due to printing more & more dollars.
£1 = £2
Suck on that, bitches.
>£1 = £2
More like USA FAILS.
Oh sorry, I meant £1 = $4 before long.
Enjoy your inflation, fucked up economy & failure of capitalism, Yanks.
What you fail to understand is that the US is reliant upon Middle Eastern oil supply by -choice-, unlike most of the rest of the world.
The US has abundant oil reserves, and has Canada's oil supply by the balls.
Reserves are one thing, rate of production is another.
It's no good to have a trillion barrels of tar sand if the most you can optimistically hope to manage is a few mb/d by 2030.
Oh yes, the US economy never had upturns and downturns before Ronald Reagan took office. No recessions or depressions either.
Yes, it does. Also chinese.
Bush & co STILL has to kiss the Sand Niggers' arses though. Remember: all it takes is for Saudi Arabia etc to convert their oil profits into gold, and USA is FUCKED.
So what happened? Yesterday, the news were all about "BAW TIBET" and some ammunition depot in Albania that blew up (100€ on Serbian idorts) and today, everything is going down the pooper again?
Now you're starting to get it!
Just ask LBJ....
As it has Venezuela's? you'll put your faith in a piece of paper?
>Watch SiCKO. And STFU about Moore. At least he's not Fox "News" level distorting.
Moore doesn't bother distorting - he simply makes things up and ignores any facts that happen to be inconvenient. He is simply compensating for the fact that everyone he grew up with thought he was a complete shit loser with a sneak-thief mentality and a petty vindictive streak. And they were absolutely right on all counts.
Sure hope you guys don't live in a country that trades with amerikkkka, economy tends to spread...
>Sure hope you guys don't live in a country that trades with amerikkkka
That pretty much makes everybody fucked, doesn't it?
Basically, we're fucked. We've got so many converging catastrophes it's ridiculous. We've got peak oil production, subprime meltdown, dollar crisis, Iraq occupation since they have the worlds most underutilized light crude oil reserves (see: peak oil) bleeding us dry financially, derivatives market collapsing and the fed operating the printing presses at a smoking full tilt to try to print the difference, and much more.
Times will certainly be interesting, to say the least.
Certainly the potential for a crash and hyperinflation scenario would be beneficial for much of /a/, would it not? Consider that the majority of us are either 1) several thousand dollars or more in debt to banks that paid our respective colleges or 2) broke and nihilistic anyway. The collapse of some part of the establishment is, beyond certain inconveniences, in our favor.
Granted, this is the mentality that fuels the confirmation bias that makes people predict such a failure (sometimes hastily) in the first place -- because they wish it to happen. Both domestics and those outside that choose to hate the US broadly due to its recent administration are susceptible to this.
NOW YOU GOT IT!
Some more than others.
Asia except India, China and few others are pretty much fucked up because all theirs banks have thousands of billions of dollars, and yen, and nothing else.
You guys. Srsly.
You know what happens to the yen when the dollar drops right? If so please explain that to the rest of the fine fellows here please.
I'll get my car.
Now we're talkin'!
But we're not in the 90 anymore and Japan isn't ruling the economy of Asia on its own.
Yes they do. Wait... in the US? who knows...
Yeah, so much in fact that they're one of the main reasons the dollar hasn't completely crashed yet. As soon as it gets low enough for them to decide to finally pull out, we are going to be truly fucked.
Fuck yeah, Australia!
I live in Europe and I'll live in chinkland in less than 10 years.
lulz to you all.
We already told you, forget about the car, no gas. At least we'll all exercise... like Kenshiro.
hmm wonder why it got deleted anyway Sundome
Lulz to you.
Chinkland is nothing but a gigantic lie, and it's exactly the type of lie speculators love.
I, for one, have been waiting my entire life for this moment to come. Get ready for the suck, folks.
We all get blowjobs?
Moore is about the only guy worth listening to out of the US. Enjoy your fucked up country, don't deny fact.
>>Enjoy your fucked up country.
for the record, I've taken an economics class.
I think I'll start investing in firearms- one of the few comodities that rarely decreases in value...
You're gonna start seeing an exodus from the U.S. and people taking up refuge in foreign nations not too long from now.
"We deny your reality and substitute our own."
Please keep listening to him. Every stupid, naive, or misinformed individual that is out there means there is that much less competition for the rest of us.
Almost makes you wish the Mayans were right, don't it?
It was the right wingers that got us into this mess, Moore's got more credibility.
More specifically on derivatives and why the dollar is deader than fried chicken:
The Trillion Dollar Secret
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY FUCKING TRILLION!
The US can't be the only one in deep shit.
Wait a second, you mean that the New Deal and and the Great Society were Right Wing conspiracies!? Holy shit...
I bet you want lower taxes on the .2% that control 50% of the wealth in America for seven years.
>It was the right wingers that got us into this mess, Moore's got more credibility.
Please keep believing that. Every stupid, naive, or misinformed individual that is out there means there is that much less competition for the rest of us.
Well sure if that means that they'll be free to spend that money stimulating that economy.
Investors: bend over and kiss your assets good-bye. If Fraud Street doesn't get your money, those of you hiding it under the mattress will lose it through the FED/Bush weak dollar policy.
The Yankees paid more for A-Rod than JPMorgan did for Bear Stearns, this deal stinks to high heaven.
Don't worry, there's nothing here that NAFTA can't solve!
Fuck you Bill, you share as much responsibility for this mess as Regan does.
Watch your mouth son, he might hear yREAGAN SMASH!
Keep on bitching, I'm going to motherfucking CUBA to get me some good old whores while you wallow in your own filth.
I wanna kick your ass, Bill.
G-DUB MAH BOII!!!
Moore is about the only guy worth listening to out of the US. Enjoy your fucked up country, don't deny fact.
>I wanna kick your ass, Bill.
So you are mexican.
Most intelligent Americans think Moore is a dumb, fat asshole
Wait, I thought the economy was GOOD in 1998? Sure, there's no shortage of old effects and trends that have lasted for years finally shoving their aftereffect on poor old us, but Clinton's been out of office for eight years now, there was plenty of time for the current administration to make a dent in our economy, especially given the Bush administration's legacy of driving up government spending by obnoxious amounts while mishandling various disasters
>Most intelligent Americans think Moore is a dumb, fat asshole
I finshed Baccano! yesterday, and Firo makes me want to go out and buy a suit and hat.
Are you seriously saying Michael Moore is worth listening to?
Holy fucking shit.
BANK RUNS IN THE USA
Panic in the streets of a country where everyone has a gun and is a psychotic (medicated) lardass. Hope they make a reality show out of that.
We'll call it BBC News 24.
Absolutely not, especially when Fox News' sole existence is to spew bullshit, when Moore shines lights on the bullshit the government does. I'd say that's pretty different.
All that shit happened so long ago that it isn't relevant. America is only 200 years old and the industrial revolution took off about half of Earth's HP in just around 100 years.
It's very simple to see that this shit is not sustainable, and out only saving grace is going to be new technology. We depend on it, because oil isn't going to be availible for citizens in the future, it's going to be reserved for airplanes and boats and shit like that.
"Hard-earned" tax dollars are being wasted on huge projects like the War on Drugs And Terror.
The people aren't at fault, the lenders are. You're aware of that. People in America aren't able to read contracts and fine print for a reason - they're raised to be stupid. This is the captialist states of America, everything is pointed at the consumer instead of away from them. They're not in any position of power, and since the government is, it's their responsibility to take care of its people, especially after fucking them over, or else the people will revolt.
wait, so the bad guys
>believe socialism is evil
>tax dollars are being wasted on huge projects
You're going to need to get your generalizations and stereotypes right first.
I wish /n/ were still here. The paranoid "BUY GOLD AND AMMO" threads would be awesome.
slavs are ruining the world economy with AIDS
Moore is a biased fuck. He's no better than the fags that he's trying to "expose".
I speak to all humanity.
Can you hear me in the back, there?
Huge projects that don't help people at all, like the War on Drugs. They're using the tax money to keep people oppressed and sick instead of keeping them smart and healthy.
They aren't using the tax money to actually benefit Americans, via education, healthcare, or public transportation. They're supplying the bare minimum of the above so that people will think they have it good, while wasting all of our money for their own benefit.
Get a clue before you dismiss my valid points.
>It's very simple to see that this shit is not sustainable, and out only saving grace is going to be new technology.
Our only saving grace is going to be a massive reduction in energy use.
All of the energy dense substances of this planet are rapidly dwindling. What technology has enabled us to do is utilize them. First it was coal, then oil and gas, and finally nuclear fuels.
That runs the gamut. We aren't going to be finding any new sources of candy, no matter how hard we dig. No alternative energy source that we're pursuing can provide more than a fraction of what we're now enjoying from earth candy.
The main factor is reducing world energy consumption by orders of magnitude. Our energy-dense earth candy can't even support our exponential consumption, so inferior sources like solar (which fossil fuels are essentially hundreds of millions of years concentrate of), wind, and other forms of intermittent and condition-dependent power aren't going to cut it alone.
Unfortunately nobody wants to voluntarily cut back consumption, so we'll have to do it the hard way and have to experience classic results when a species over consumes the resource base to which it owes it's existence.
Maybe you should actually watch his films before you open your mouth and start being an expert on the subject. People just attack him because he tells the truth and thinks outside the box.
Truth hurts, yeah.
And if you weren't such a hueg envirofag you'd realize that the current coal/oil and especially nuclear fuel reserves will be sufficient for us until we have fusion or highly efficient, cheap solar, whichever comes first. My money's on solar as there's actually places were solar price is equal to grid already.
I'm in despair!
seriously. Estimates show we have enough reserves to fuel America in it's entirety (not including current military campaigns) for 5 years. 1 if we can't tap the tar-sands.
We are this fucked because our economy is specifically designed to consume as much oil as possible. Pissant levels of education for the lower class, the media's campaign against productive motivation (cite any entertainment-news show), superfluous usury, government and party control over several media outlets, right to work laws, unquestionable rite of religious control, and fuck anything else republicans seem to stand for.
At least I know my organic chemistry class will finally come in handy (besides the credits) when they go back to prohibition! Georgia Moon, anyone?
Might take some tips from moyashimon for some saki too...
And if we make a Sci-Fi show like that, no one would believe it.
Maybe if you actually knew about fusion research (There's a long-running joke among fusion researchers. "Fusion is 50 years away, and always will be.") and the scale of what you're proposing, you'd realize that it's not gonna go down like that.
The figure in the image represents the amount of oil the world consumed in 2006. It's 1 CMO. or a cubic mile of oil, or 1/3rd the size of Lake Eerie.. The Eiffel tower is included next to it for scale.
So let's get a feel for how much energy would be required from other sources just to get the equivalency of that.
If you're not an "envirofag" and don't give a shit about the environment, then go live somewhere else. Oh wait, you can't. You should care about the planet you live on, because you belong to it, and without it you'd die.
This thread saddens me. When I get my own place, I want a self-sustaining house with solar panels and shit, so I'm as close to immune from the shitstorm that is bound to happen. I'd have to move away from here for that to happen, though, since I'd have to have it built myself.
To obtain in one year the amount of energy contained in one cubic mile of oil, each year for 50 years we would need to have produced the numbers of dams, nuclear power plants, coal plants, windmills, or solar panels shown on this amazing representation.
Factor in an additional 30% to conpensate for energy losses, and you're looking at 3,380 nuclear power plants just to produce the energy we used in '06. That's almost 8.5 times the number of nuclear power plants that exist worldwide today. And keep in mind we're already having a hard time feeding those plants as it is.
Given that there is a global shortage of uranium
While you're right about the uranium (we've got plenty of nuclear fuel for the next 60 years), it doesn't do shit for transportation. Electric cars were pulled from the market and will stay there until they can be designed to break as much as hybrids or BMW's. We will have to bankrupt the oil companies or kill off the corrupt politicians they pay (both would be nice) long before we start allocating funds into alternative fuels (real ones, not feeding your car corn, inflating the price of food)
To obtain in one year the amount of energy contained in one cubic mile of oil, each year for 50 years we would need to have produced the numbers of dams, nuclear power plants, coal plants, windmills, or solar panels shown on this amazing representation.
>>"Hard-earned" tax dollars are being wasted on huge projects like the War on Drugs And Terror.
This I can really agree on. I mean, aren't America close to spending a trillion on a stupid fucking war in the first place? Say what you will on Clinton and his stupid ass NAFTA, but Dubya's administration managed to turn a thriving economy into the sluggish shit it is today.
Plus, the War of Drugs could be over with just legalizing the shit, but NOOOOO, we can't have that shit. Seriously, cartels are just like hackers sometimes, they will find a way to sell their shit on the streets.
Still no cars.
>the media's campaign against productive motivation
>my organic chemistry class
>when they go back to prohibition!
yep, future is pretty bleak if you're supposed to be well educated
Bricks were shat.
Keep in mind that we're just talking about oil here and not coal, natural gas, or uranium which are all approaching their respective peaks.
Electric car aren't that far off.
Any functional, decently intelligent person only need some basic skills in information search and reading comprehension to make booze.
Your organic chemistry is useless, unless you know it a high level and can make other drugs.
Luckily I don't need a car in NYC! It's more of a luxury thing than anything here.
But yeah, people living in the suburbs are fucked.
There's no problem with Uranium before a few centuries though, because of the technology of surgenerator.
>While you're right about the uranium (we've got plenty of nuclear fuel for the next 60 years)
Actually, he's wrong about that too.
Check out these articles which go into explaining a lot about uranium production and consumption.
Uranium production is nearing the halfway point:
Current uranium demand almost twice production
At current use (not current growth in consumption, but current use), uranium is estimated to last somewhere up around 40 years. The more of it we use, the faster it will go. France is already primarily nuclear. India and China are trying to expand their nuclear capabilities as well and make it their primary source of electricity. China especially since all their coal burning is wrecking their environment, buildings, and crops. So it's obvious that there is going to be some considerable growth in consumption of the resource an it won't last as long as the 40-year estimate with zero growth figured.
I can make crystal meth too. the better way that doesn't involve explosions. I just said moonshine, because that's the only drug I would like for myself.
I know returning to alcoholic prohibition is unlikely in an economic downturn, but I would point to the fundamentalist resurrection. Once they finally outlaw abortion, gay marriage and Mexicans again, where do you think they will set their sights? fascism requires targets to distract the ignorant masses!
Google "surgenerator" and "Phénix" (or Phoenix).
>Any functional, decently intelligent person only need some basic skills in information search and reading comprehension to (know that).
I have never attended, seen or herd of a post-secondary class that teaches something unobtainable to anyone with motivation and a internet connection. Once you have the above skills, college is only a place to get a piece of paper that says you know what you're talking about.
my French is a little rusty. Got any English sites?
There's an infinite supply of uranium in the sea once we perfect the technology
It's a breeder reactor.
A thorium breeder has to run on HEU for a decade before it has bred enough U233 to start a normal cycle. So it takes around 100 PWRs, 400 tons of HEU, and loads of thorium just to even start the cycle.
After a decade, we're able to refill them with Th+U233, and then they'll breed at 1.02 (if we're optimistic). So we're looking at another fuel reload after 3.5 decades - effectively 200 reactors after 35 years.
So this is what we have:
X years - conversion of 100 reactors
1 decade - ignition of 100 reactors
3.5 decades - 200 reactors
3.5 decades - 400 reactors (approx. what we have now)
3.5 decades - 800 reactors
Problem is Energy Returned on Energy Invested (EROEI). It's in such a low concentration and requires quite a bit of energy to pump the water and extract/refine that it's not really viable.
>the media's campaign against productive motivation
You ever seen "ET" or "EXTRA"? How about MTV or BET? please tell me the difference between American pop stars and role models and those of say... Japan. How do the rich American trailer trash compare?
The problem is that once you start pumping, the dilution of the uranium means that you severely erode your energy returned on energy invested, aka. EROEI (at least with a once through fuel cycle).
1 ton of seawater only gets you about 0.3 kWh of electricity. You can't pump that water very far before you've consumed its energy content
The Neo-Conservatives are done for. It isn't them that you're going to worry about in the future. Things like gay marriage and abortion are the phoney DISTRACTION issues they used around 2004 to keep people distracted from real issues, which are on the table now. Prohibition isn't going to happen again for alcohol, but it is still around us in the form of the War on Drugs. Americans are stupid and support it though, when they're completely unaware that tobacco and alcohol are also drugs. They just don't know how to fight the system and want to avoid jail, so they don't question anything and get drunk.
This is colossally misleading, especially when being used to push some sort of luddite or pro-oil agenda.
Consider how much of that oil is used to produce non-energy petroleum products, such as, say, every single plastic product ever created. Or how much of it is lost to inefficiency and refining processes.
There is plenty of unharnessed energy to go around, especially that free fusion plant in the sky. Making use of it merely requires a detachment from the established lines of production and technological progress. It's been stated already, and though it appears to be conspiratorial in nature, business and governments now favor oil artificially and suppress other sources due to a difference in their profitability. And this sort of LOOK AT THESE HUGE NUMBERS with no analysis shit you're posting does not help in changing public opinion regarding it any.
That's my point.
Fascists NEED phony distractions. It's the only thing that keeps the populace from getting sick of their shit.
So what happens when the fascists actually get everything they wine about to distract the people? they find a new "crisis" like "illegal" immigrants. That's how prohibition got started. That's how WoD got started. That's how my moonshineing business will take off some time when I'm 60!
Very well put. On the east coast of the USA, I believe Pennsylvania is powered by wind turbines. Even if a nation-wide blackout were to happen, as long as there are people monitoring the systems, then the wind turbines will continue to produce energy to power homes, especially when combined with solar panels.
I'm not going to be someone to object to the constructing of wind turbines and solar panels, because it's free, constant, renewable energy, and it's better that we start making that shit now and make the switch on a smaller scale sooner rather than later. In addition, those two inventions only need nature to run its course, something that will continue even after all the oil dries up.
I thought that was anti-oil, just showing us how fucked we'll be when we run out of the black shit and need to START BUILDING ALL THAT.
>And this sort of LOOK AT THESE HUGE NUMBERS with no analysis shit you're posting does not help in changing public opinion regarding it any.
In the past, we were never really limited by an available source of energy, or the lack of a new, even more powerful and cheaper one just waiting in the wings to be exploited with gusto. We could innovate and invent at almost will. We produced stuff so fast we had to invent advertising to move it.
Now comes peak oil and a terminal decline in the energy source with which we have built modern civilization. I have written about the scale and the lack of time to mitigate the effects. It would appear that of the three ingredients (energy, capital, resources) for innovations to come to fruition, we may find ourselves lacking all three this time out, with emphasis on energy.
Where will the energy come from to build all these wonders of technology in an energy scarce world? It’s like going from tugging on a rope to pushing it. Technology is only as good as the energy sources which support it. How will we provide energy for growth and energy for massive mitigation efforts while fighting off declining energy availability?
We must innovate and invent long before we peak in energy, or we will not be able to without a massive socio-economical upheaval. The “father” will be shooting blanks. Our inventions will be stillborn. This is what the official inquiry into the subject, the Hirsch Report, is all about.
Now, what you're talking about is the "old" breeder technology. Surgenerator works, there is enough nuclear waste and enough uranium for that. Though you're right, it would be a problem if others countries were wanting to go nuclear as well, on energy matters.
Why don't YOU try talking to the people from his home town who grew up with him? You will quickly find out that he has always been a sneaky little sleazeball since childhood - an attention whore who has a long history of saying and doing anything to keep the spotlight shining on his bloated corpus.
>We must innovate and invent long before we peak in energy, or we will not be able to without a massive socio-economical upheaval.
No shit. The time's now. This is why a falsehood such as "oil is the only thing that can ever provide enough energy, look we use a cubic mile of it every year" is counterproductive. This is why pessimism about fusion or nuclear (though still fuel-based) and downplaying the effectiveness of solar energy, among others, is counterproductive.
By no means am I suggesting that it's wrong to increase efficiency, decrease wastefulness and stop throwing limited resources away, but even at a reduced expenditure rate, there will need to be a change to newer energy sources eventually. What you seem to be implying is a massive program of active population control and return to pre-industrial per capita energy use is the solution, or the inevitability...which isn't a permanent one anyway.
Many people operate under the assumption that we're just going to switch fossil fuels for renewables and go about our merry way. Not gonna happen like that.
This is going to require a huge paradigm shift in the way we view energy that noone is talking about, much less implementing.
Suppose you found a bag of money or won the lottery. What would you do? A prudent and wise person would invest the money and set his lifestyle to meet the income from his investments. Sure, he might spend some to enhance his current lifestyle, but only a fool would squander it like there was no tomorrow and that the money would never end.
The fool would spend it maintaining an unsustainable lifestyle until he was down to a few bucks, then spend the few remaining dollars either on more lottery tickets or some pie-in-the-sky investment, hoping for a quick return or another windfall.
Rather than realize his lifestyle was unsustainable, he instead tries to find ways to continue it, robbing Peter to pay Paul, loans, robbery, etc.
A prudent society would have invested in renewable sustainable systems long ago.
So, here we are in overshoot. We are living beyond our means. We spent our “bag of money” on toys and a phantom lifestyle that we don’t want to give up. We are insistent that giving up our toys, our lifestyle and our huge family is not an option. We won’t cut up the credit cards, nor powerdown our lifestyle, and we don't want to go back to work.
We want a fix. We want something that keeps this phantom going...at all costs.
However, as long as we've got coal/oil reserves, research into alternative energy will be mainly a token effort from major companies and a big effort for poorly funded scientists. In the years or possibly decades between when you start pouring money into alternative energy research and when you get something that's just as viable as oil and gas but cheaper and renewable, it's a money sink and a lot of that money's going to end up wasted. As long as oil and gas are profitable, companies won't go for alternative energy...and even if they do, and for all I know there might be a few companies seriously researching it right now, it takes quite a while to get anywhere NEAR something that can replace oil and gas in both cost AND convenience.
Meanwhile, a lot of people don't like nuclear energy, and maybe that's not totally unwarranted. Besides, we're nowhere near fusion as a viable energy source.
Five years ain't much.
Can't find any English sites describing this Surgenerator you're talking about. Damn the oil giants' censorship. Where are the eco terrorists when you need them?
Watch this and the subsequent video responses:
Even if all you're saying is true. It won't change the fact that HE TELLS THE TRUTH in his movies. The average citizen won't stand up because he has everything to loose, we need people like him.
Newer energy sources, though, are either more expensive, less reliable, or don't provide enough energy on their own. You've got to think bigger than just cars and houses. People and especially businesses waste huge amounts of energy - as long as they can afford the energy costs of having twenty enormous spotlights pointing up into the sky every month or keeping their enormous car lot lit even during the night when it's closed or something equally ridiculous, there's nothing keeping them from burning through our precious energy reserves. Sure, renewable energy is part of the solution, but it's going to be a long, LONG time before it can handle humanity's current energy consumption rate, and when renewable doesn't provide enough power for the entire planet but we're out of consumable energy stores, guess who gets fucked?
That's the problem. Our premier energy source (Fossil fuels. Oil in particular makes up 40% of world energy.) are declining in production at such rates that alternative energies, which provide a fraction of a fraction of the energy, can't ever hope to make up the difference.
As the Hirsch report pointed out, the main problem is liquid fuels for transportation. We're talking about changing that out as well.
Also, you have to look at net energy, or energy returned on energy invested. Many of the so-called "solutions" we're producing right now are only possible due to the underlying cheap oil foundation and produce about as much energy as they take to make, if not less. Case in point - ethanol.
What can I say? We're using the same data. The only source of power that outputs to us orders of magnitude over what we are capable of using is the sun. All the energy contained within the fossil fuels came from it and so did most of the energy that sustains the planet's natural systems. If we plan to continue to expand beyond animal-level horizons and not be reduced to a scattering of dark-ages enclaves until the next asteroid shows up, that's what it's going to have to be. I agree fully that current action is unsustainable, but I don't think that it has to be the end of the world -- I refuse to say there's no solution.
Dang, I wasn't aware we were using so much biomass already. Explains why corn's so expensive.
Seems a waste, really, that we dump most of our shit in the river when we could have some microbes process it for some nice renewable energy. Just put the plant by the water treatment plant. you'll be at the source of the raw materials and might harness the water-plant's gases while you're at it!
>So, here we are in overshoot. We are living beyond our means. We spent our “bag of money” on toys and a phantom lifestyle that we don’t want to give up. We are insistent that giving up our toys, our lifestyle and our huge family is not an option. We won’t cut up the credit cards, nor powerdown our lifestyle, and we don't want to go back to work.
Perfect, you hit the nail on the head. Every single one of us on the planet needs to realize this.
The way I see it, we're on a path to be using energy at a faster rate than the sun can provide. We may eventually cover the stratosphere with our solar panels and still be left without enough energy! (not to mention agriculture will collapse, save the shroomies)
A good start will be U.S. approval of Kyoto protocol, or whatever it is now called.
But I guess it won't happen.
never going to happen.
which, oddly enough, is why capitalism works.
Before that point, something other than energy will be the limiting factor to growth. Perfecting techniques of using sunlight, barring the production of some insane relativistic process, is as good as we're probably going to get.
we plan on using our nuclear energy for uncontrolled fusion reactions on a global scale some time around 2012-2050. It'll be an aquarian age extravaganza!
>I agree fully that current action is unsustainable, but I don't think that it has to be the end of the world -- I refuse to say there's no solution.
There is a solution, but the problem is that we're not pursuing it.
These problems we're experiencing are symptoms of an even larger problem, which Bartlett pointed out in the aforementioned youtube video - growth.
If we don't become sustainable than we shall not sustain ourselves. The first law of sustainability is that growth in population and/or consumption of resources cannot be sustained. Period. It's mathematically impossible.
So if we want to talk about getting on the right track and being sustainable and all that shit, we have to address growth.
But what we're doing now rather than address the underlying disease is looking for quick-fix solutions that will help mask the symptoms. This isn't a solution because even if you do come up with something that helps, it still leaves the underlying problem unaddressed as it grows in magnitude and builds up like a volcano.
All of these problems from climate change to energy decline and starvation can all be tied back to 1 thing - continuous growth. More people using more energy and requiring more resources have got us into this mess, and it's all caused by growth.
I think Isaac Asimov said it best in the famous interview with Bill Moyers.
MOYERS: What happens to the idea of the dignity of the human species if this population growth continues at its present rate?
ASIMOV: It will be completely destroyed. I like to use what I call my bathroom metaphor: If two people live in an apartment, and there are two bathrooms, then both have freedom of the bathroom. You can go to the bathroom anytime you want to and stay as long as you want to for whatever you need. And everyone believes in the freedom of the bathroom; it should be right there in the Constitution.
But if you have twenty people in the apartment and two bathrooms, no matter how much every person believes in freedom of the bathroom, there is no such thing. You have to set up times for each person, you have to bang at the door: "Aren't you through yet?" and so on. In the same way, democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you put more and more people onto the world, the value of life not only declines, it disappears. It doesn't matter if someone dies. The more people there are, the less one individual matters.
Breaking news! The US dollar has reached a new low to the Japanese Yen, breaking a 13 year record. It is now at $1 = 97Y
Japan taunts us with Gurren Lagann merchandise.
I'M IN DESPAIR!
Many people wish that they could become millionaires.
To them I say: Never underestimate the power of inflation.
You're right. We might get it approved if Obama becomes President or something. Regardless, though, America wants Taste Great! and Less Filling!
Reality doesn't work that way, people! One or the other. We need to stop basing our foreign policy on catchphrases and slogans that you can slap on a box or a bumper sticker.
I was actually pretty disappointed. Went to a local con and NOT ONE LITTLE FIGURINE from GL! just bleach, DN, and CLAMP stuff everywhere!
Daniel Quinn has the same message. Countries like China try to implement population control and they are instantly the bad guys, because HOW DARE THEY try to impede on "God-given rights"! This arrogance is something the majority of the human race has not come to accept yet, and won't until harsh reality smacks them in the face.
I also see hispanic catholic people, poor black people, white trailer trash and white mormons popping out kids all over the place, and it just makes me cringe.
It's hard enough for myself, pondering to see if I am going to see the end of human existence or not, or at least live to see a revolution of some sort. Could I possibly bring another human into this world? I was born in the 80's, so things were good for me for the most part, but it isn't going to be like that in the future.
I so want this...
You just want to rub your you-know-what against her thigh.
overpopulation is the reason i don't care about any one in Africa because their killings are keeping them in check for the most part. Darfur can kiss my fucking middle class ass.
I don't think we're going to see the end of human existence, but we could see the end of civilization as we know it and billions of people since our entire world revolves around a resource that is rapidly declining. Hell, we even use oil to get to other resources.
There was this guy named Thomas Malthus who came up with the idea of analyzing food production and population growth rates and he saw this wall that they were about to slam into based on food production capabilities and population growth. His preditions were accurate with the data he had available at the time, but what happened that he couldn't have possibly accounted for was the discovery of oil and the green revolution where we used petrochemicals and machinery to explode the amount of food we could produce. Oil allows us to synthesize on an almost unlimited basis all these chemicals we use today since it has a very long molecule chain. Modern farming is little more than the use of land to convert petroleum into food. We don't even practice things like crop rotation anymore and just grow the same thing over and over again and deplete the soil of vital nutrients since we have petroleum fertilizers to suppliment.
So we have to ask the question: What happens to the food supply as oil becomes increasingly scarce?
Time will certainly tell.
YOU GET SHOT IN THE FUCKING FACE AND I GET YOU.
Stack farms on top of one another.
Skyscraper of Farmland.
This is actually the most pragmatic attitude you can have. When I see these ads on television pleading for viewers to subsidize the carrying capacity of third-world nations already in overshoot, I just think to myself that sending those people aid is just going to make the problem even worse. Nature needs to take it's course. We've been sending these people aid for decades and it hasn't changed anything because it can't remedy the underlying cause.
Problem is even though overpopulation is rampant in third world countries, it's the first world countries that consume the most resources.
I suppose that'll make another Great Depression a blessing in disguise.
More /n/ shit in my /a/?
Don't forget the global warming.
1 billion of people living on the shores (maybe 1.3, 1.5 in 40 years). And more importantly, Japan is an island.
So see ? It's all related to /a/. WE MUST DO SOMETHING TO STILL GET OUR ANIMES
Wasn't there a guy who said he came from the future back in 2000? made some predictions like no Olympics after 2008.
Yep. First-world nations are the main problem, not starving Africans living in mud huts. A person in an industrialized country will use way more resources than any of those guys.
What he said.
this is what I want
Yeah, IIRC some of his claims turned out to be wrong and he tried to cover it up by saying it was an alternate timeline or some shit.
Japan is a very mountainous island; even with a worst-case 100-meter sea level rise, most of it would still be there. On the other hand, just about every major city there is below 100 meters.
eh, most of anime is drawn in Korea, anyway!
>On the other hand, just about every major city there is below 100 meters.
You mean more like every major urbans cities are below 20 meters, right ?
Shores are overpopulated.
And since you're educated, I'm sure you know that 5 cm rise of water equal few kilometers of water in the flat populated lands (which Netherlands and Japan have in huge quantities but Netherlands got some walls against the stea while Japan got none).
People in Africa aren't poor because there's too many people, they're poor for political and economic reasons. And the reason all our billions of dollars of foreign aid aren't working is because blindly throwing money at the problem isn't enough to solve it - it doesn't fix problems in the poor countries' government, it doesn't solve the violence issues they often have (not least because many of the poorest countries have been ravaged by civil wars for many years), and because some of that money is just going to go missing between when it arrives in the country and when the government invests it in improving the country (or buying a dozen sports cars).
In fact, because they're poor, they use hardly any resources. While here, in America, everyone's got running water and electricity and lights and a fridge and a TV and a computer and...well, you get the idea.
I don't think you understand very well how a sea-level rise would affect lands. 5 meters rise would inondate huge populated area of Japan and flood like at least 30 millions of people there.
These people in Africa can live comfortably for just a few dollars a day. If anything, you're an example of waste and selfishness in humanity perfectly embodied, while your counterpart would be a 6 year old starving African boy who was just born in the wrong country. He is a human being just like you are, anything else is just you stroking your own cock. Darfur is genocide. Genocide is NOT population control and should never be encouraged.
Just like in Gurren Lagann, the proper course of action is to prevent people from being born in the future, not killing off all of the existing people. If you knock up your wife more than once, then you're part of the problem. America is a fantasy land, but too many people aren't aware of that.
This thread is old as fuck.
Seriously, it survived ALL DAY!
WHAT IS THIS GAIAONLINE?!?!
Then it does not warrant a bump.
No just the new popularity based system.
I bet this is the time for organised crime to prosper once again.
WHY is this thread still alive?!
This is why we need /n/ back.
I will have to say that reading this thread has been more educational than anything I've seen on television in a long time.
Because it's an epic thread. I'm fucking proud of /a/ today.
4chanarchive this thread, Anonymous. Needs four more requests.
Why sage if you need more people to look at it ?
ahh I love nightshift /a/
THIS THREAD WAS STARTED 12 HOURS AGO
I'm scared, guys.