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Do you watch anime for the art/style? Story?

What keeps you into anime?
>>
Story is irrelevant other than it has to be consistent.

The most important part is the art/animation, second would be theme, meaning, or purpose.
>>
Probably the story, considering I don't watch that many anime. I also watch comedy anime for the self-evident reason that it's funny.
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art style may draw me in, but I won't keep watching it if it sucks, pic related
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>theme meaning or purpose

ALL OF THOSE ARE COMPLETELY DEPENDENT ON THE QUALITY OF THE STORY YOU ILLOGICAL CUNT.
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Hikkis need something to keep their sanity.
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>>10246475
Not in the slightest.

Story is merely a container.
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The characters. If the characters are boring/annoying/not funny, i don't watch.
>>
Anime and torrents give me easy access to what is, usually, a nice story that will let me escape reality for a couple hours. I like to watch shows that have nice art, sure. but mostly I watch it for storyline. I guess that's why I haven't been watching much comedy lately.
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>>10246437
art, plot, music, character development, the voice actors, special powers, potential meme's

all those things contribute to the value and quality of the H of the respective series.

im fucking serious here
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>>10246468
The same is true for Petit Cosette.
>>
Lesbian subtext
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>>10246475
Not necessarily. Nekojiru was fucking awesome, but the plot was ricepaper thin.
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>>10246475
Try actually reading some books or real poetry. Story is simply what's used to deliver your message (And other things Cirno mentioned).
>>
characters and character development
>>
Whatever I feel like watching. I can go "MARIANAS TRENCH DEEP" or "FUCK YEAH SPACE BEAMS PEW PEW!"
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>>10246495
Mostly this, and because it's entertaining to watch
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>>10246513
>character development

You mean "Characterization?"
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>>10246511
Not much of a message if it dies in a flaming trainwreck on the way here, now is it?
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>>10246457
Story is relevant. I don't feel like watching a show with too many plotholes. It has to feel self-contained.
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>>10246532
I think that by character development, he meant "Character Development"

However I may be wrong.
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>>10246534
>other than it has to be consistent.

>>10246557
>other than it has to be consistent.
>>
>>10246565
If he meant "Character development" then he doesn't like any anime that doesn't involve characters growing, which is incredibly dumb.

There's a misconception on this board as to what character development really is. Most people think it's how well a character is fleshed out, but that's actually characterization.
>>
>>10246457

Jesus. You must really be into cinematography and art.

>>Story is merely a container.
I would highly disagree and I think, luckily, most directors realize that storytelling come first or at least is extremely important. After all a good story can affect an audience even with poor visuals but the most dazzling style and creativity means very little if there's no real substance to it.

Story is the most important to me. However animation, style and creativity is, of course, something I appreciate too. In fact more and more I find I'm amazed by what animation itself has to offer that you don't get with real footage.
>>
>>10246511
Poetry is for fags, gays and homos.
>>
>>10246568

So it can be consistently boring, shallow, and ?
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>>10246568
also characters one can associate with.
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>>10246568

So it can be consistently boring, shallow, and cliche, and you're fine with that?

Wait, I forgot, Gurren Lagann fan. Take this as a rhetorical question.
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>>10246587
Just like anime!
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I watch Anime to get trolling material for /a/.
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>>10246605
Oh, snaps!
>>
I don't watch anime, I just read manga.

Art quality is the most important, followed by characters, followed by plot.
>>
>After all a good story can affect an audience even with poor visuals but the most dazzling style and creativity means very little if there's no real substance to it.
It seems that you're implying that story = substance. Theme, meaning, or purpose is the real substance. Story is the container for which these things are delivered.

I know you guys are being sincere and speaking with as much knowledge as you can, but go educate yourselves. I'll start you out with the basics.

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/classics/resources/poetics/poettran.htm
Even if you don't care enough about this discussion to learn, bookmark this anyway. It's a good read.
>>
ITT: Cirno tries to explain literary concepts to anime watching nerds.

What the fuck are you doing? What made you think this was a good idea, Cirno? Why don't you just shut the fuck up if you know that no one is going to understand what you're saying?

You always fucking do this. You see someone who's wrong, and you have to go on your fucking crusade to "Educate" everyone in the thread. Why can't you just call them faggots and leave the thread? Why must you do this?

Faggot.
>>
>>10246627

Your theme is expressed through your story.
Your meaning is expressed through your story.
Your purpose is expressed through your story.

Therefore, unless you have some sort of divining rod that lets you watch the meaning instead of the actual series, story is the only one of those things that directly matters.
>>
Characters and Art.
>>
Ugh not this shit again.
>>
>>10246657
You couldn't be more wrong, as story-less pieces of literature have had plenty of theme meaning and purpose.
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I watch it for the sex and violence.
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>>10246656
I appreciate it.
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>>10246670
lol retards who think 'anime' is a genre
>>
>>10246656
Why shouldn't I? I'm not just going to flee every time someone is uninformed and speaking like they aren't. How would that improve the community?
>>
oh god, the goldfish. Bring back so much memories...
>>
>What keeps you into anime?
escapism
>>
>>10246627

I disagree. Themes are interesting only as they reflect or contrast larger worldviews, meaning is subjective to the individual, and purpose is relevant only if you are studying the work's effect on the real world. All those things are peripheral. The plot IS the work.
>>
>>10246627

Heh. I am educating myself. I'm taking a film course in college. And no, I don't think I'm amazing because I'm taking a class at a community college. But I am learning some interesting things, especially through extracurricular reading.

>>Theme, meaning, or purpose is the real substance.

A good story has a purpose, relevant themes and actual substance. A good story is all of that and more than just a sum of it's parts. You don't think that when a director sits down on a project the first thing he needs is a good screenplay and storyboards? He can't possibly have any creative vision without starting with a good story.
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>>10246677

Storyless fiction does not exist.
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>>10246700
stop stealing my heart, Cirno.
bastard.
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>>10246725
>I disagree.
That's fine, as long as we can agree that Theme, meaning, and purpose are separate.

>The plot IS the work
I wasn't talking about the plot, but you're right. Maybe I should have said "Plot," but not many people here know what that actually is (Read about it here >>10246627 guys) so I decided to be more specific with "theme, meaning, or purpose."

Clear?
>>
>>10246735
Major works of the 20th century. Ulysses. Gravity's Rainbow.
>>
I got lost Cirno.

What's your point? That a good story has several elements?

Sorry I lost the point of the discussion?
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>>10246757

Not storyless.
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>>10246775
That "Story" is cosmetic, and "Plot" is more important.

I assumed that people here would not know the difference, so instead of "Plot" I said "Theme, meaning, and purpose."

Make sense?

I still encourage you all to read
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/classics/resources/poetics/poettran.htm#Section10
It's good stuff.
>>
>leeds.ac.uk

yeah I'll pass.
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>>10246788
They have plot. No story.
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>>10246627
The condescension's got to stop, probably, if you want this discussion to continue with more than one member.

Starting with a primer like Poetics is well and good, but Aristotelian thought is not the only method of analysis and evaluation. I know that you're used to little to no oppositional thought beyond halfassed trolling about GL and brushing off idiots on said topic for six months has gone to your head, but a pithy statement followed by an appeal to authority does not equate truth.

Theme and meaning are inextricable from plot, even if much of the substance is filled in by the viewer or reader's personal experience and outlook, or represented in terms of style or animation. Without a decent framework, granted you've acknowledged consistency, it's little but disconnected ideas. For certain purposes, this is alright, but throwing it out of works for which it is important is negligent.

I get the feeling that you have the tendency to draw a conclusion quickly and presume it's the correct one merely due to an appearance of self-consistency and because you came up with it.
>>
>>10246801
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/poetics.html
Better?
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>>10246808

I generally like your posts, Cirno, but this anon speaks the truth.

And this:
>>That "Story" is cosmetic, and "Plot" is more important.

made me cringe.
>>
Work of fiction: PRACTICALLY ANY ANIME SERIES
Theme: Good vs. Evil OR finding happiness OR "what I wish the world were actually like" (lol slice of life)
Meaning: Whatever you read into it.
Purpose: To make money!
>>
>>10246789
If the story is the whole and plot is a part of the whole...

How can a part be more important than the whole?

a part may be more important than other part but not from the whole.


But wait, I'm reading that aristoteles shit.
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>>10246807
The definition of fiction requires narrative. Regardless of the form the narrative is put in, it will form a story.
>>
>>10246808
>granted you've acknowledged consistency
Well then we agree, why the paragraph? I don't discount plot, I discount story. Unless you're telling me that in some circles, people group story and plot as the same thing, in which case I'm going to completely disregard their opinion. Sure, it's not fair, and i'ts definitely not logical, but fuck em. I simply don't have the energy to argue that. Sorry

>I get the feeling that you have the tendency to draw a conclusion quickly and presume it's the correct one merely due to an appearance of self-consistency and because you came up with it.
Your feeling is spot on, but it's not relevant, nor is it a complete analysis.
>>
Wow, this thread is highly educational. Unfortunately, it it only educational as to what an elitist dickface Cirno is.
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>>10246885
I'm not smart, so I'll resort to personal attacks instead.
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>>10246807
According to this you can't have story without plot, because a story happens whenever at least 1 (one) event occurs.

http://www.anglistik.uni-freiburg.de/intranet/englishbasics/Plot01.htm
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>>10246870
Ok. I know. But the reader basically has to construct the story in both of those works. And there are several interpretations/alternate stories that one could come up with. Finnegans Wake is an even more extreme example of this. I think that's close enough to storyless. Or as close as your going to get with your "definition" of fiction.
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>>10246885elitist

I think that he is more like a criticize, judge the shows with fundaments
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>>10246908
You forgot something.
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>>10246852
>How can a part be more important than the whole?
Kind of like how the actual cake is more important than the icing, even though the product as a whole is called a "Cake."
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>>10246920
Hi, Cirno
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Anime cannot be judged as literature.
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>>10246911
You meant to type, "plot without story," I assume.
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I like the Japanese take on narrative over the personal "issues" stuff that characterizes much of US output, or the UKan material which is either miserabilist tendency or celeb/popculture shite.
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>>10246930

Oh fuck you, I´m not Cirno
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>>10246923

Considering that the vast majority of cake breads taste bland at best, I'd say the icing quality is far more important to the average cake. I also think your parallel sucks, though that may just be because you didn't specify what you were attempting to represent with what.
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>>10246920
I think he's more like the cancer killing /a/. If he's so smart he should be outside saving lives... but well, that's just my perception.
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>>10246930
Cirno spells better than that.
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>>10246877

>>I don't discount plot, I discount story.

I'm not sure you really understand what story means. I can guarantee you that the anime creators you like, even Yuasa, are very well aware of how important being able to craft a good story is.
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>>10246982
Am I not allowed to enjoy a story just because I say it is not the most important aspect?

When did we decide this?
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>>10246945

Screw you, Tuff Dawg! Where'd you get your degree - the local pound?
>>
ITT White people talk about something specifically aimed for another culture.
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>>10247007
I'm not white.
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>>10246982
Oh no, he understands what it means. He simply has talked himself into a mindset from which all his opinions appear, to him, to be unimpeachable through the splitting of hairs.
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>>10246877
The idea is that without assuming the precise language of an English major or unemployed heavy reader in the OP, the difference between "story" and "plot" is a semantic quibble. There's connotations to the meanings, and it's like comparing an engineering blueprint to a building to one that considers themself an expert, but they're inseparable by definition.

I wonder why you choose to sound off on every thread ever posted at all, then, other than loving the sound of your own internal voice, if you refuse to attempt to understand those with even mildly differing presuppositions or backgrounds. Isn't it futile? But if you apologize...
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>>10246923
In the terms of an "Iced Cake" it's more important the Iced cake than the Cake before the icing.

If W = A+B+C

Then W > A, B, or C

The only way this could be wrong is if A B or C are negative.
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>>10247010
I'm going to take a wild (Maybe not) guess and say Mexican?
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>>10246969
Scientists make awesome firefighters, I'm sure.
>>
I have not been kept in anime. I fell out of love about a year ago.
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>>10246998

No, I'm just saying that it's absolutely integral to the process. In fact it's nonsensical to say that you watched a superb anime or read a book but that the story was irrelevant.

Unless it's the rare occasion when the story really was bad and the only merits a work has is its technical details - imaginative writing, creative visuals, and so on that somehow didn't improve the story at all.
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>>10247022
But in the sense I was using it, I was merely talking about the "Icing," not the "Iced cake." Obviously the product as a whole is more important than any of the pieces. Again: Sorry for the confusion.
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>>10247023
How the hell did you know?
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>>10246969

well you know, I don´t like the form in that Cirno thinks but he have good points in someones comments, furthermore I hate him for the only fact of being a tripfag
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>>10247035
Like Catcher in the Rye.
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>>10247035
This is a thread about preferences, of course I'm going to detail the parts I highlight over parts I think are less essential to building the whole. I believe that a story with shit contents is much worse than a work with substance that has a shit story.

I also didn't mention music as being important, but it's obviously a contributing factor, and makes an anime complete.

>>10247044
I'm able to track people by their opinions if they're prevalent enough. You may as well be a tripfag to me.
>>
>>10247007
and niether am I!
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>>10247079
Really? Tell me about myself.
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ITT Cirno doesn't ever watch slice of life? Or watches anime for anything but beginning -> end?

I really don't see your point, Cirno. Plot is not the MOST important part of a creative work. Characterization, if anything, is the most important. No work is going to be readable/watchable if the characters are too uninteresting, inhuman, 2 dimensional or impossible to relate to. On the other hand, plot is entirely dispensable.
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>>10247041
Oh but dear Cirno, then Icing is not the whole.

If the Whole is Icing then You're telling me:

I < K+I which doesn´t broke the rules because cake never is part of Icing but something from outside that's aded to the whole.

(I = Icing K = Keki)
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CAKE-KAKU DOORI.

Thread is educational, keep discussing.
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>>10247106
Keiki has the vowel lengthener in it, you know.
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>>10247098
I think you've got some things mixed up here.
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>>10247098
>On the other hand, plot is entirely dispensable.
I'm sorry, it's not. Even good slices-of-life shows have particular development plotwise. Otherwise, you will end up nothing so much as a mundane pandering show.
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>>10247088
I don't know exactly, I just recognize you whenever you're arguing.

FLCL
Gurren-Lagann
MindGame
Only Yesterday
Future Boy Conan
Space Adventure Cobra
Future Boy Conan
Oshii's GitS

I don't quite remember, but Is that you?

>>10247106
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>>10247129
..........I see what you did there.
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>>10247127
If you think I've got something about his point about plot wrong then I'd love to hear it. Or it could be that I ignored his first post, in which he said he watches animu for art/animation before anything else, which just makes me giggle.
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>>10247098

Well I think that the two are indispensable
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>>10247143
GL is the only one out of those that is actually discussed here.
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>>10247143
No, that's not me.
But pretty close, actually. Hrm.
I'm also part American-Indian, by the way.
>>
Cirno's claim appears to be that the story of a work is "just its presentation", so has nothing to do with its actual quality.

Well, that's true for many things --my car doesn't run any better if I paint it shiny red, food doesn't taste better or nourish more effectively when cut into swans, and brilliantly creative prose would generally _detract_ from the utility of an instruction manual-- but it's not true for fiction.

Fiction IS a presentation. It cannot have bad presentation and still be good overall. Story isn't the paint on a car, it's the fucking drive train.

The only way in which a work of fiction with a bad story can be considered good is if you begin deconstructing its story into the individual elements (single characters, writing style, etc.) and calling those good separately from the whole of the work. And then you still don't have a good car, just a very well-crafted transmission and some nice leather seats.
>>
>>10247098
I watch slice of llife. Windy Tales is on my top 20.

>Characterization, if anything, is the most important.
What about stream of consciousness prose that doesn't present any characterization?

But I would agree that characterization is important. I'm just being a dick.
>>
>>10247146
Empty and annoying characters made lucky star shit. Well, everything else is a factor too. But hell, there was practically no development in Ichigo Mashimaro, and most seem to like it.
>>
The overall effect of everything combined, although story and plot are slightly more important to me.
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>>10247182
It was cute and amusing enough to make up for it, in my opinion.

"Quality mindless entertainment," if you will.
I don't say this very often at all, so I hold Ichigo Mashimaro in somewhat high regards in this respect.
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>>10247179
No, he was just saying that story wasn't AS important as other elements, not that it didn't matter at all.
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>>10247180
I've yet to encounter any anime that presented no characterization. Sounds like it would be interesting, actually. An anime with nothing but pretty pictures and a narrator with a flare for personification.
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>>10247182
What's this?

No character development
No plot development
Moe only
FINAL DESTINATION!
>>
>>10247182

That's because Ichigo Mashimaro is slice of life in its most literal sense. The characters aren't developed so much as they are observed, and they're observed over such small and uneventful portions of their lives that you can't expect any significant changes to take place in their personalities or characters.
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>>10247098

Just because I find this interesting, I believe that in anime characterization is viewed as one of if not the most important aspects of a story. In the west (and by west I mean the US and by the US I mean mainstream films) I believe the generally accepted school of thought is that you start with plot and then create characters.

Of course it varies depending on the writer but I remember reading it somewhere and it makes a lot of sense.
>>
The terming of Lucky Star as a "slice-of-life" animu is mainly an excuse to justify its general lack of humor and complex plot points. In most animu that are considered "slice-of-life", more emphasis is put on setting and atmosphere than on the writing. In Lucky Star however, the setting is generally ignored and often replaced by one color backgrounds during unfunny comedy bits. Slice-of-life is NOT in any way a justification for lack of interesting writing if what makes slice-of-life animu enjoyable is completely missing, which is the case in Lucky Star.
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>>10247182
That's because IM is a comedy that succeeds in being funny, and Lucky Star, despite the fact that it hides under the guise of a comedy, fails to make it's viewers with any matter of intelligence feel any emotion other than anger at how awful it is.
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>>10247202

It doesn't work to call it less important than the other elements either when it's the entire observed portion of the work. Unless you have a hardon for transmissions of course.
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>>10247143
>Future Boy Conan
This is the series I have re-watched the most times.
>>
You turned my thread into shit.

Fuck you all and your rhetorica. But specially you Cirno.
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>>10247254
But I do have a hardon for transmissions, or if I'm ripping your example back into literal: I have a hardon for the conveyance layer of the story.

I just made that up. "Conveyance layer." You like that? I do.

The finished product is what matters, but what almost always make a work notable or elite is the substance. So I rate the substance highly.
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>>10247285
GOD FORBID /a/ DISCUSSES SHIT INSTEAD OF LISTING WHAT THEY LIKE ABOUT ANIMU
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>>10247285
This thread is way the fuck better than it was destined to be. Stop complaining. There's real discussion here.
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>>10247305
Real discussion in its most spiteful and abrasive form, yes.

We have a couple good metaphor writers though.
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>>10247246
>In the west (and by west I mean the US and by the US I mean mainstream films)
You just lost the argument Yank
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LS is a slice-of-life about pampered otaku. Just because there's no BAWWWPROBLEMS doesn't mean it isn't slice of life.
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>>10247246
Mainstream films in the U.S. are generally terrible, terrible shit. Terrible, horrible, abominable, digusting shit. I mean, really awful, appallingly, mind-numbingly deplorable shit.
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>>10247292

"Conveyance layer" sounds like it would mean the exact opposite of what you're using it to mean, actually. Conveyance, delivery, presentation, story.

...And you yet again missed my point: when your subject is a presentation, the presentation IS the substance.
>>
>>10247339
If it had BAWWWWW it would be drama, not slice of life.
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>>10247339
Sure, it's technically slice of life. It's just that it's an annoying, poorly executed shithole created to reference affiliated animu. A referenceblob, if you will.
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>>10247246
How dare you equate American shit = whole of western culture. Fucking people with no taste.
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>>10247356
sarcasm on my /a/?
>>
>>10247339
I don't think anyone said it wasn't slice of life. I think people are saying that it's empty.

Also, lol. Cirno continues to be /a/'s greatest polemic, and you guys know it.
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>>10247356
And non-mainstream western films are better? All 10?
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>>10247363
>It's just that it's an annoying, poorly executed shithole

At least you know what you are mad about.
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>>10247379
We don't really deny it, for the most part. Anon just has individual things he like to argue with him about.
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>>10247383
America should never be equated to western culture. Hell, it can be argumed America has no culture hand has been merely ripping off their European cousins and trying to mix it with alot of east asian stuff. In oher words, its the lowest common denominator.
>>
Kind of surprising the amount that said art. While anime does look cool, in fiction, the story and characters is the most important part.
>>
>>10247359
No, you are missing my mindset, in which the substance is the theme, meaning, and purpose presented, and the story is another form of presentation.

Without the story, looking at the individual pieces of the work -- the plot -- you could pick the theme meaning and purpose out from it. (You clearly documented earlier what this entails[consistency], so I don't think we need to touch up on it again.)

Just because the "Story" is presentation, doesn't mean that it represents everything that's being presented.
>>
>>10247421
Fuck, what happened to my cookies?

This is me.
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>>10247376
What post are you referring to? What struck you as sarcastic?
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>>10247379
Don't you think he's more of an apologist, what with him being on /a/ with the views he has?
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>>10247375
>>10247325

Haha oh wow. The reason I even mentioned the US was because I didn't want to generalize about how other screenwriters in foreign countries besides Japan write scripts. Seeing as I only know about how it's done in my country and in anime.

>>10247356
Way to make sweeping generalizations that are completely off base. Or maybe you really only do watch indie films all the time and have been blinded by your blind hatred of all things remotely connected to Hollywood.
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>>10247425
He does that when he's defending something, but most of the time, he just goes into threads and sparks debate because his opinions are radically different from every one else's.
>>
>>10247423
THE DAY CIRNO POSTED AS ANONYMOUS, NEVER FORGET
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>>10247425
I'm just a prick with the way people casually refer the west as only partianing to American-made stuff.
>>
>books
You realise that there is no medium with a lower worth experiencing : worth burning ratio than books, right? "Read a book" without any specification is pretty much the worst advice you could give.

>poetry
When trying to express something that can't be expressed in words using words, you end up with a mess of words that only people who think that a painting of sunflowers by Van Gogh means more than just "Van Gogh liked sunflowers" will see value in (or will at least convince themselves it has value). Hardly something I'd use to lecture people on "meaning".

>Story is simply what's used to deliver your message
Stories are used to deliver many things. Most of the time it's entertainment. Sometimes it's a pretentious faggot who thinks he's in any position to lecture others, even though he's nothing more than a mere author. A very few times there's someone with a worthwhile message and a story is the best way to spread that message, but those cases are far and in between, especially in anime and manga. Not something I'd call the norm.
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>>10247438
Care to archive?
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>>10247356

Assuming that by "shit" you mean "incredibly shallow", there's a good reason for that.

Film is primarily a visual medium. Which is to say, it's great at showing you things, not so great at telling you things. The problem with this is that most screenwriters couldn't write a deep action to save their lives, so all the depth of the plot ends up being in the dialogue, which has far less impact on you than what's being shown, and generally what depth there is to the plot is lost on the audience.

Another contributing factor is that people don't go to the movies to think, so you make more money for producing shit.
>>
>>10247438
He's done it before a few times and speedy-quick deleted the post and reposted it as Cirno.
>>
>>10247420
Anime is not literature. It has a story, but that's only part of it. The very definition of the medium is the animation, so of course people prioritize it. It's what separates "Animation" from being some other form of art.
>>
>>10247431
No, I don't watch indie films all the time, and enjoy the occasional Hollywood film. Actually, though, I haven't been to the movies in a while. Plus, I thought it was clear from the silly wording of my post that I was being at least a little facetious.
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What the hell's going on in here?
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>>10247438
Not the first time. I always forget that my browser clears cookies when I close it.
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>>10247379
The only one you can pluck out of the crowd at any given time of the day, maybe. Know that it's not due to others' inability. What's sad is the cult of personality, but that issue's for /b/tarded afternoon hate threads.
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>>10247464
>You realise that there is no medium with a lower worth experiencing : worth burning ratio than books, right?

Webcomics.
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The most important thing about anime is tits. If I wanted literature or themes or messages (DEEP stuff), I'd pick up a book. You are all fucking losers for trying to make a pointless medium into something deeper than just entertainment.
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>>10247473
Yes. I know.
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>>10247521
Personally I want the art and animation to stretch the potential of the medium, so that I can enjoy creations that are truly unique, and otherwise impossible in any other artistic medium.

If I wanted tits, I'd look at tits.
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>>10247521
LOL, in the classic sense of the abbreviation.
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>>10247492

Doh. I guess I was being extra defensive because my careful wording backfired in my face and I got the ol' "America sucks, you Yankee jackass" thing again. Which in this case was rather uncalled for.

>>10247464
I don't want to argue about this since it has nothing to do with /a/ but I think your idea of poetry is pretty shallow. There are a ton of different kinds of poetry and it has no more or less inherent meaning than any other art form.

Maybe you'd like modern poetry a bit better.
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>>10247521
Excuse others for having tastes. Your unabashed lack of them makes you the best consumer EVER, I bow at your feet.
>>
story, though there's only really 1 or 2 shows each season without a terrible story

manga's the way to go
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>What keeps you into anime?
The same thing that keeps me watching normal TV, the occasional good show.
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>>10247592
You vague motherfucker.
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>>10247592
>the occasional good show.

There are good shows on T.V.? Must be a new development.

... Well, Avatar. I'll give them Avatar.
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>>10247574
>LOL I AM AN ARTFAG.

You cannot have good or bad taste in anime, it's all the same shit.
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>>10247612

Rosario + Vampire is just as inherently good as Akira, amirite?
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>meaning... meaning... meaning... meaning... meaning...

So did Cirno go objectivist on us all of a sudden or what?
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>>10247625
Yes.
I am just as entertained by both. They do what their purpose is.

You are have no better taste just because you are watching Kaiba next month instead of To-Love-Ru.
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>>10247625

It's equally meaningful.
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>>10247642
ignoer typo orz orz
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>>10247610
Last season had Journeyman (Quantum Rome), 30 Rock, Life, Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and to a lesser extent, Reaper. And currently airing there's Breaking Bad. And that new HBO series chronicling part of the life of John Adams appeals to me.

Same deal with anime, most shows suck and there's very few that are actually good.
>>
OK if I get it right, we discussed the components of anime.

One of those components is the script (I think anime is closer to theater than literature).

Among the script we have other elements; like Story, plot, dialogues, etc.

We were discussing which elements among the scripts were more important.

AMIRITE?
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>>10247625
I was just going to contrast R=V to Mindgame. You beat me to it.
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>>10247612
I never said "good" or "bad". Just tastes. We all have specific preferences. Wanting a theme, good characterization, a complex plot, etc. are all about the preferences you have in the medium. It's not "artfaggotry" to want more than "all the same shit" and just because you don't pay attention to anything doesn't mean it's all meaningless DEEP shit.
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>>10247642
My scribble drawing is just as good as the Mona Lisa because it's all the same shit. Right?
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>>10247679
Art is subjective, so yes.
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>>10247636

I debated for a good minute whether I should use Mind Game or Akira. I figured that there was probably a better chance he'd seen the latter, though.
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>>10247679
You might not want to use that argument in light of Marcel Duchamp's L.H.O.O.Q.
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>>10247685
If art were entirely subjective, then artists would not try to "Improve" their art, because there would be nothing to "improve." Try again.
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>>10247646

>>breaking bad
>>most shows suck

Haha, you're funny.
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>>10247689
Nightime /a/ busting out the slightly obscure references. I love it.
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>>10247696
Find me a TV show with better acting and I'll give you a cookie.
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>>10247679

Not as good technically, but perhaps equally meaningful. That's something that's been bugging me this whole thread. People (Cirno) keep lauding the meaning of fiction, but because of subjectivity that trait is just a masked way of saying your reaction to it.
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>>10247685

Why the hell did I waste my money this summer on the Van Gogh museum and the Vatican museum and a bunch of exhibits in NYC.

God dammit, I could've just stayed at home and had my 10 year old cousin replicate them for me. Why didn't you tell me sooner, anon.
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>>10247679
Depends if those scribbles look anything remotely like Rembrandtt.

One must always be given the benefit of a doubt.
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>>10247692
You switched the definition of art in between posts there. He wasn't referring to technical drawing ability and composition skills.
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>>10247685
Estetic
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>>10247729
God dammit, I could've just stayed at home and had my 10 year old cousin replicate them for me.
>stayed at home
>10 year old cousin
>10 year old

Yes, you should have. You wasted time and money when you had the world's greatest experiences right there.
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>>10247747
You mean "aesthetic," right?
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>>10247727
Meaning can be found through consistency. While multiple interpretations of that meaning is certainly possible, and as a result, subjective, the presence of a meaning is not.
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>>10247762
Yes. My bad.
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Art style draws me in. I won't even consider a series if I don't like the art.

And something that really makes me FEEL, like, suspense, or baaaww-worthy moments, or a good(if cliche) romance, will keep me hooked.
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>>10247761
What if that 10 year old cousin was a he?
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>>10247791
Changes nothing.
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>>10247771

Rah rah intelligent design movement!
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>>10247790
Regardless of origin?
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>>10247795
Just the opposite, actually. Consistency is the evidence for evolution.

I should write an essay on the importance of consistency one of these days. It's an amazing concept.
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>>10247812
Switch topics halfway through just to be ironic.
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>>10247797

What do you mean by that? Origin, as in a certain studio or artist?

That kind of thing doesn't make a difference to me normally. If I do like a certain studio/artist/whatever's work, I'll look into other things they've done, but that doesn't influence my choices.
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>>10247812

You just argued the same circumstance was evidence for two completely opposite cases. Mind paying a bit more attention here?
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>>10247834
If what you thought was "anime" was actually done by non-Japanese, would that affect if you liked it or not?
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>>10247848
I did not. You misunderstood.
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>>10247851

Probably not.
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>>10247861
"Consistency is evidence for meaningful design and random generation" is a pretty difficult statement to misunderstand.
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>>10247851
>>10247791
>>10247762
>>10247679
>>10247625
ITT: Questions with painfully obvious answers.
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>>10247771
Subject of knowledge --Modifies--> Knowledge
or
Knowledge --Modifies--> Subject of knowledge

????
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>>10247886
Another for the list.
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>>10247882
But "Intelligent design" is not consistent by nature, because it uses supernatural and unexplainable forced to fill in holes.

You would use consistency to prove something like intelligent design, but it can't be proven with consistency because it isn't.
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>>10247897
What list?
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>>10247912
>>10247884
>>
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If you think more anime should be like this then wouldya kindly GTFO.
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>>10247924

I have a soft spot for that show. Of course you're the only one suggesting that.
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>>10247938
I'm the one who spams this on /tv/. I love this show. I'm just saying leave out western philosophies and shit when you watch anime. YOU CANNOT HAVE THE GODFATHER AND ANIME AT THE SAME TIME.
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This was an extremely good thread. I'm off to sleep.
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>>10247960
I have no idea what the fuck your point is.
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>>10247924
I think it should move beyond it's over the top attuitude with everything it does, especially facial animations. Anime that are able to obtain subtle human emotions are few and far between. %cm/s tried this but came up short is is one of the contributing factor to alot of people dislike of it.
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>>10247974
People dislike 5cm/s because OH MY GOD FUCKING RAGE. Most like the art. I doubt the animation/visual presentation is a contributing factor to many of the problems people have with it.
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>>10247974
I think that in the animated medium, you can and should blend both subtle and exaggerated emotion. I'm sure you know what I mean by that.
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>>10247960
You can have Godfather and anime. It'll be a hard transition from over the top moe highschool drama bullshit, but it's do able.
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>>10247993
Yeah, you should use both sides of the picture and all you can. I love, and the name of it's blanking right now, but exaggerated movement in fight scenes. Long limbs and sweeping movements. But you need to have subtly when dealing with more complex emotions. It's easy to throw some red lines on someone's cheeks and called it embarrassment, but there's no satisfaction in that.
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>>10247910

...and now you just completely undercut your argument from >>10247771.

Let's break this down into the generic case, shall we?

A pattern is observed in a product. (Assume the observation to be correct.)

Now, one of two things is the case: either it is logically possible to assume the observed pattern is the result of intention, or it is not logically possible to assume the observed pattern is the result of intention.

As both a work of fiction and the world are products (one of an author, the other of nature), whichever choice is made applies to both.

So does nature have intention, or is meaning not logically derivable?
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>>10248031
...

Apparently after the party moved on in this thread most of the laggards were fucking incoherent.
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>>10248031
But that's not a valid example, because in a piece of literature, you're searching for meaning. In creation theory, you're not looking for meaning, just cause.

To be honest, it seems like you're just being a dick right now. Keep the arguments valid.
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>>10248073

If you could prove there was intention, that would prove the cause was capable of having intention. (If a death is a murder rather than an accident, then this implies the existence of a murderer.) Which is why IDers love the argument so much.

>>10248064
Which part of that is in any way incoherent?
>>
Loli



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