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>It appears to me that right now we have, to speak in generalities, two different sorts of people participating in the fan community.

>The first would be the old guard; people who maybe download some fansubs and keep up with the community but still maintain a healthy, active interest in new anime and still buy DVDs and merchandise. They support the R1 companies and the Japanese content providers and, in general, tend to look down on the other folks who pop up in community message forums.

>The other is a new breed of fan - generally much younger than the first, and is quite used to getting anime for free. They were "raised", in a sense, on fansubs; anime is a disposable medium, something they watch because they can do it for free, and also something that a thriving chat community surrounds. They're not only caught up in the show itself - which can be had for free with no ads and zero consequences - they're also mired in the social circles that surround it. They're not "traditional" anime fans - they're new blood, people who want to watch this stuff but have no personal investment in it. Some of them have become bizarrely militant about it and have taken up "the cause" of providing the product for free to everyone, regardless of the legality or (even less so) the morality of it, be it through YouTube or whatever. But that's how it is, and times have changed.

I love how he brings up the MORALITY of watching shit on Youtube, when everybody in the internet age now is used to instant gratification. There's nothing immoral about it. He's just a capitalist cocksucker because he thinks he'll be rich one day. "BUY ANIME DVD!"
>>
Answerman is a capitalist cocksucker.

Anime DVDs SHOULD be bought since /a/ likes (to talk shit about bad) animu so much.

And Japan's own "pandering to the greezy otaku" will send them to their inevitable downfall.
>>
>>10235121
Stupid fag. What do you think will happen to the anime scene if nobody buys DVD's anymore?
>>
Once again Answerman RAAGEESS against fansubbers and leechers and YouTube, yet a few minutes later links to YouTube to show OPs done by the likes of KickAssAnime and Laughing-Man. Fuckin' loled.
>>
>The first would be the old guard; people who maybe download some fansubs and keep up with the community but still maintain a healthy, active interest in new anime and still buy DVDs and merchandise... ...Some of them have become bizarrely militant about it
>>
...because pirating and bootlegging anime is a new thing right?
>>
I like how he put himself on a high stand and look down on everyone else, the same way Cirno does to people who don't appreciate Gainax.
>>
Hey wait guys, I've met some of these "old guard" guys before. They had a store called Anime Crash in Manhattan. It went out of business.

:3
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>>10235121
If you watch full episode on youtube, you're a faggot.

Answerman didn't even need to say it,it's an evidence.
>>
Aren't most people who watch anime teenagers who have no income?
>>
http://youtube.com/watch?v=edhpwSMqc2I
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>>10235245
Not the same thing. OP = sample, episode = outright stealing.
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>>10235438

Are they working over at Best Buy now? Because EVERYBODY goes to Best Buy anymore. :P
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>>10235438
There was an Anime Crash in Boston that also went under.
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>>10235540
No, if you watch anything that isn't authorised or purchased directly from the licensor, you are stealing and destroying the industry. That's just science! </answerman>
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>>10235236
Silly newfag, people don't buy DVDs now as it is. Everything is overpriced, not that many complete collections of new series are out, and that is what people wait for. That's what they did with Lord of the Rings. The majority of those are expensive, too. People are only going to buy their favorite series, no one is going to start buying DVDs of a series they've never watched. Lots of anime fans being targeted are underage newfags without jobs, just like you.

Narutards watch anime that they see on Adult Swim and TV in general, and usually aren't on the cutting edge of anime like Anonymous is. Anonymous has nothing to buy when he is at the final frontier. Now leave.

>>10235245
Haha, what a dumbass. Why doesn't this guy get canned?
>>
>>10235541
>Because EVERYBODY goes to Best Buy anymore. :P

ITT, the demise of the English language
>>
>and usually aren't on the cutting edge of anime like Anonymous is


....yeah.
>>
>>10235541
I wouldn't know, I steal animu and purchase my electronics from places like Newegg, etc. I have no reason to patronize BB.
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>>10235541
>:P

Gaiafag.
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>>10235540
It isn't stealing if it's free. Anime airs on TV in Japan, and anyone can tune in and watch it. People take the episodes from Japan's TV and gives it to us through the internets. We put on our Japan Goggles and can understand their TV show for free.

Japan typically doesn't bitch since we aren't in their television station's demographic, but the people in America who want to make money off other Americans bitch because their consumers aren't down with expensive, slow DVD releases.

I spelled it all out for you. So stop being retarded.
>>
god i hate answerman. he's defining "old guard" to be "answerman's ideal of what an anime fan should be."

old farts traded VHS fansubs and copies of the legitimate VHS releases far more than they bought the actual products, and continued to do so until downloading anime online became popular/practical. i know i was still running into vhs tape traders as late as 2002.

bottom line is the american anime dvd industry got drunk on cash in the early 2000s and now that fans have gone back to doing things themselves they are throwing a fit. answerman is just their minister of propaganda.
>>
>The first would be the old guard; people who maybe download some fansubs and keep up with the community but still maintain a healthy, active interest in new anime and still buy DVDs and merchandise. They support the R1 companies and the Japanese content providers and, in general, tend to look down on the other folks who pop up in community message forums.

They are moralfag hypocrites who argue "it is moral to download in this case, but not in this". At least those on here are honest with ourselves about it, rather than trying to draw moral boundaries so they can think they are "moral" in whatever they do and then forcing them on everybody else.

>Some of them have become bizarrely militant about it and have taken up "the cause" of providing the product for free to everyone, regardless of the legality or (even less so) the morality of it

A case can be made to justify the morality of it, however bullshit it might be (the first group he says makes these arguments), but it is flat out illegal, so don't know how it can be more immoral then illegal.
>>
>>10235236
protip: nobody needs the western anime industry. Sure, the jap studios make some extra cash with selling the series to western distributors. But the most money comes from japanese DVD sales and merchandising, so if the western industry dies it won't really effect the japanese industry.
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>>10235582
I wish I could hate you bald, you fucking leech.
>>
>>10235676
Sure. OAVs and PPV program too. Also, where's your contribution to the TV reception? where's the advertising in the fansub? Can you get TV Tokyo in Hokkaido?

GTFO with your shoddy logic.
>>
Hey Answerman!

No fansubs, no DVD industry. Oh noes! Now suck your own cock.
>>
>>10235764

The difference is that those people actually pay for the shit they watch when it gets licensed. It's not an issue with you downloading or watching fansubs it's an issue with you watching the show then not buying it when it comes out.

The argument that it's free on Japanese TV is also invalid because it's not. The TV broadcast is supported by ad revenue, something the broadcaster doesn't get from people in other countries DLing the show and watching it ad free.
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>>10235893

I love how you retards seem to think that fansubs help DVD sales somehow.
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>>10236050
>>10236079

No one really cares. We're just arguing for the sake of it.
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>>10235893

No, fansub only helps because japanese studios are too retarded to seize the opportunity they have abroad. Yeaaars ago they could come up with solution to make more money and broadcast their shows in US/Europe with less delay.

But no, they don't want those $€.

Now, they're complaining that the industry is failing apart while they aren't able to make any good deals. Except with things like Evangelion, but wel...
>>
>>10235236
i strongly dislike the anime "scene" in america, and would be more than happy if it disappeared.
>>
This thread is angry.
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>>10235893

No, fansub only helps because japanese studios are too retarded to seize the opportunity they have abroad. Yeaaars ago they could come up with solution to make more money and broadcast their shows in US/Europe with less delay.

But no, they don't want those $€.

Now, they're complaining that the industry is failing apart while they aren't able to make any good deals. Except with things like Evangelion, but well...
>>
ITT: Thieves argue about honor.
>>
This kind of thing is exactly why I avoid ANN like the fucking plague. I don't want to be watching Nanoha and suddenly start wondering if my downloading habits are leading to the downfall of the industry.

AM has at least one thing going for him: he's good with scare tactics. "All you fansubbers are leading to the downfall of the industry! Today it's Geneon, tomorrow it'll be Gainax!" and so on and so forth. And then he backs up his preaching with numbers pulled from sales charts and whatnot that support his argument while coincidentally not mentioning other factors that might be leading to a drop in sales, LIKE A FREAKING RECESSION.

Whatever, I'm sick of talking about the industry in general. Someone gimme call me when Nanoha Season 4 comes out, I'll be holed up in my room far away from all news sources and watching Fate/Stay Night for the tenth time.
>>
Do you really think Japan cares if anybody buys region 1 DVDs?
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>>10236050
No-one saw the Internet coming at full force. IT all boils down to companies wanting to have control over their shit and making money with it wherever they can. I'm not causing them to lose money, I'm just not putting any money into it. Fansubbers, for the most part, are non-bilingual bystanders.

I'm more likely to buy figures and other otaku shit because of my fandom being established through fansubs, though, so all those companies just need to shut the fuck up and give me my Gurren Lagann DVD boxset.
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>>10236159
This "scene" is an eyesore. Disappear!
THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE THIS SCENE vv
>>
you'd have to be retarded to exclusively buy anime the way things are now. the chances of getting in legal trouble for downloading anime are slim to none, and you get it years before it comes to R1 dvd. it's also free and doesn't take up physical space.

maybe if people actually got v& and anime was released in a timely manner more people would buy the shit.
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>>10236216
>The people who watch fansubs, for the most part, are non-bilingual bystanders.
fix'd
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>>10236257
They have enough trouble v&ing people who commit VIOLENT crimes to worry about us.
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>>10236257

I'd just settle for quality subs.
>>
3 episodes + FAG T-shirt + Fag Key chan for 24.99.

OR the whole season for zero HMMMMMM
>>
Fansubs are the cancer killing anime. They sure help grow these worthless "communities" (like /a/) but at the expense of slowly destroying the chicken of the golden eggs.
>>
What he said seemed pretty much accurate.

It seems your RAGING for the sake of RAGE.
>>
can someone explain to me exactly how necessary a dub is?
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Why are no moral fags replying to how Japan doesn't give two fucks about the western anime industry and whether it's destroyed, frankly neither do I.
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>>10236412
But yet you watch anyway.
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>>10236443
America is illiterate
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>>10236443

For TV airing. But only a few shows are shown on Adult Swim and the like.
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>>10236050
> The TV broadcast is supported by ad revenue, something the broadcaster doesn't get from people in other countries DLing the show and watching it ad free.

LOL, no. It's the other way around. TV broadcast time is pretty much bought by anime companies (or sponsors they find) to advertise THEIR SHOWS. They air at late night slots with little to no advertising.
>>
>I'm more likely to buy figures and other otaku shit because of my fandom being established through fansubs

that's quite interesting. Lets say there would be no R1 industry. Would it harm the japanese core industry ? Not really, the licensing money from western publishers is more like a nice extra.
Now lets say there would be no fansubs. Would it harm the japanese core industry ? Not really, but still more than the dead of the R1 industry. Why ? Because without fansubs Mr. western Otaku who buys figurines and other overpriced merchandise, which is , together with the jap DVD sales, the backbone of the japanese industry, wouldn't be Mr. western Otaku and watch cartoons, read comics or play vidya gaems instead.

tl;dr, japanese anime industry = good, because they do our stuff
R1 anime industry = not necessary, thus no loss if it dies. It's dead does nothing to the jap core industry.
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>>10235311
I do it to fit in
>>
Does anyone have any actual numbers as to how much the japanese contribute to anime companies compared to how much america /non-japanese markets contribute?
>>
The good news is that this past year DVD sales in Japan were up a good amount, reducing the need of America.
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geneon is reorganizing itself
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>>10236644
THAT CAN'T BE TRUE, BECAUSE FANSUBS ARE DESTROYING THE INDUSTRY, AND AND AND DVDS SALES MUST BE DOWN AND UM YOU'RE STEALING. STOP IT.

CRUISE CONTROL.
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>>10236593
Thank goodness for fansubs then, yes? I don't know how my life would turn out without /a/.
>>
/a/ is the cum stained bucket of the anime fandom.
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>>10236723

You'd have a social life, a job, money and a girlfriend.
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>>10236749
>and a girlfriend

Woah woah steady there.
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>>10236623
Japan contributes 100%. America contributes a few additional percent, and the rest of the world contributes a few additional percent as well. But anime is made for Japan and funded by Japan.
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>>10236749
no, he'd simply be on gaia or somewhere similar, just like you.
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>>10236749
Speaking from personal experience there Tripfag?
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>>10236725
Why would people cum in a bucket?
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Sorry answerman but I won't waste money on shitty shows, I'll only buy it if I know it's good.
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>>10236806
No you wont.
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>>10236749
>>
Except the times when its funded by American companies right? We wouldn't have gotten Big O season 2, or Ultimate Hellsing otherwise. Yet fansubs of Ultimate Hellsing exists. A series that is sure to be produced and packaged by an American company.
>>
you see, if only americans bought anime, Japan's anime market wouldn't be failing right now.

oh wait.
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>>10236792
Yeah. I don't have any friends,lost my girl 3 years ago, and my grades went down the drain. I could easily get back on my feet if it wasn't for this damn internet ;_;
>>
Generalizations, generalizations, generalizations.

It's like saying every anime critic is an asshole, oh wait...
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>>10236842
that's not a good excuse. don't blame extrinsic factors on your own failure.
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>>10236841
Why did I lol?
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>>10236786
do you have a source for those figures?
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>>10236877
I am addicted to this computer :-(
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>>10235541
>>10235438
Same fag replying to himself.
>>
If I didn't have free access to almost any media I wanted, I'd just make do with what I have and turn on the TV once in a while. Yes, it would suck, but that's how it is: I'm not going to spend a lot of money on an animu because I, like a lot of other members of this demographic, do not have much disposable income.
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>>10236888
you're just a loser who spends his massive amount of free time on the internet. it's not the internet's fault.
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>>10236888
I'm addicted to you.
>>
Proud old guard here (no, I was never part of the tape trading scene and couldn't care less about Star Blazers).
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>>10235121
>anime is a disposable medium, something they watch because they can do it for free

This is exactly why I watch anime.
When I was 6 I watched cartoons on Saturday morning because it entertained me for a couple hours and then I could forget about it. And then when it came to reruns of those cartoons I groaned and went to find something else to do. The same situation occurs now except I can watch anime more or less on demand and there is the rare series I won't mind rewatching.
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>>10236924

I thought it was because it's stupid paying for something you can get for free with little to no personal repercussions. Honestly, I blow my disposable income on hard drives, NAS devices, computer parts and figures.
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>>10237136
When you're someone with many hobbies and interests, you gotta reduce costs or focus money on one hobby and no money on another.

I don't know why it's so hard for Answerman to realize that not everybody who likes anime is a gigantic weeaboo. He's too condescending.
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I love how all these arguments are that "those who never will by anime are killing the industry"

If we will never buy it, who are we hurting?
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>>10237311

the industry, dumbass, because 50% of those that can't pirate are forced to buy the products
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>>10237396

I'd start a discussion about there being no incentive to buy DVDs if nobody knew what the series were about, but I'm too tired.
>>
Does anyone actually care about the U.S. anime industry? It's run by con artists and highway robbers who spit out translations of a lower quality than most fansubs and then try to work the legal system to establish legal authority to render the downloading of Japanese fansubbed shows illegal.

They're like radio broadcasting stations crying about CDs, or CDs crying about mp3 players. The service they once legitimately provided (bringing translated anime to the U.S.) no longer has any value, so they cling to the legal system to try to create artificial demand.

Let me spell out what would happen if the entire R1 anime business collapsed and U.S. companies stopped licensing:

-Japanese companies would lose less than 2% of their revenue, possibly under 1%. The money they get from U.S. licensees is completely insignificant. The quality or quantity of anime would not be affected in any noticeable way.

-Fansubs would be more readily available, more translators would be willing to step out of the shadows and translate (due to the removal of any possible illegality), meaning more translations for lesser-known products.
>>
guys guys guys, what do we care about the american anime industry one way or another? Let this flaming idiot spoout at the mouth. doesnt matter to us one way or another. We download fansubs for free now. If the industry succeeds....well we will keep downloading fansubs for free. If the industry fails....hey! we still download fansubs for free! the only thing we should care about is the japanese industry, which seems to be doing ok if not a bit heavy on moemoe dokidoki crap.
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>>10237698

It'd still be illegal and if anything, the Japanese companies would step in directly. You have to realize, copyright law is international. Japan allows doujinshi because the manga publishers use it as a scouting method but they crack down far harder (criminal charges rather than civil) on those caught distributing manga & anime online.
>>
If they just stopped wasting money on a shitty dub and release DVDs with NICE subs it would reduce the amount of money having to spend on it and increase the number of people buying it and the rate of which it's actually released, then yes, yes i would happily buy it.
>>
Jumping in, answerman seems to think his tirades against us will suddenly force an epiphany upon us. We already know what "harm" we're doing to the industry. And some of us might feel bad, others might not give a shit.

I love anime, but I already feel I have enough to be happy with. I don't care where the industry goes.
>>
>It'd still be illegal and if anything, the Japanese companies would step in directly. You have to realize, copyright law is international.

You have to realize that despite legality, companies will only step in to sue if they're actually losing money.

Until Japanese companies decide to start selling their exact product with just English subtitles added (no nonsense licensees or dubs artificially bloating costs) direct from Japan, the companies themselves don't have ANY financial incentive to pursue an aggressive legal battle against fansubs.
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>>10237776
Agreed, North American companies have to start making GOOD releases before I even consider buying.
>>
>"It's an entirely new dynamic, one much closer to how American television product is consumed. The "anime is special" meme is dead."

Exactly. Anime just isn't special anymore, meaning it's high price is just an illusion. LOL EXOTIC IMPORT. Eh, not really, not anymore. It's too common place now, and there's just too much of it.
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>>10237761
why should the japs care ? They don't loose money because of fansubs
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>>10237849
for the most part, they dont.
>>
You were all trolled again by ANN.
>>
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Answerman has lost his relevance over the years due expanse of the weeaboo population. However, its no surprise that he'd question morality about watching licensed material on jewtube.

He's a columnist on a site funded by advertising money. Money that comes from the license holders, which is why that site becomes a kaleidescope of colors every time they change the layout to promote some shit anime. Its no surprise he's going to tow the company line when necessary.

Also oldfags are the most resistant to change and his perception of the anime community is entirely self-centered.

Fuck him, fuck his stupid wife who contributes to the same column, fuck ANN, and fuck anyone else who tells you otherwise.
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>>10237886

Zac's not a troll, just a massive faggot.

Also, I rarely buy DVDs but I do support the anime fandom by buying merchandise, as do a lot of you. I think that's more than enough.
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>>10237824
Exactly.

"35 bucks for a DVD, nigger you must be joking"
>>
/r/ Rule 34 on Answerman being raped in the ass by Corporate America.
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>>10237919
but...you get TWO episodes on that DVD!
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>>10237912
>>as do a lot of you
LOL WUT?
>>
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>>10237893
>fuck his stupid wife who contributes to the same column

Yeah fuck that bitch!
>>
ITT Hipsters
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I don't get why he bitches about fansubs so much. If distribution of the fansubs of licensed shows disappeared... people would download dual audio rips instead.
>>
Fansubs can be used to stimulate interest in a show.

Except when those fansubs translations, subs, and even video quality might be better than an R1 DVD, you have a problem. Video quality is the newest facet because of HD TV releases. Mmmm, 720p Rosario + Vampire.

Blind buying is the worst thing you can possibly do, even if you read the box or reviews etc. But then we also have DVDrips, so DVDs are just useless there to.. oh well.
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>>10237698

Japan gets almost 15% of their revenue from the American side of things.
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>>10237964

Okay, so you don't buy anything. A lot of people here still buy figs and other shit.
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>>10238013
Bullshit. Produce some statistics.

And remember we're only talking about licensee fees for DVDs here. Fansubs have no effect on merchandise, because you can't download a figurine.
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>>10238038

Unless we start buying 3d printers.
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>>10238053
mind = blown
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>>10238038
I do download figurines

as well as food, water, and other stuff.
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>>10238053
DO WANT.
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>>10237698
yess
>>
>>10238006
>Blind buying is the worst thing you can possibly do, even if you read the box or reviews etc.

The funny thing is, I bought LOTS of DVDs blind back when I was ignorant about this internet thing. So I've already put about $3k into the anime industry, but almost all of it went to terrible shit that I'm now embarrassed to own.
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>>10238127

Exactly. Huge lesson learned. Now you watch fansubs and realize that maybe only 10% of less of the shows you watch might be worth a purchase.
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>>10238127
more or less ditto

>>10238152
same
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>>10238152
Yep yep yep.

Without fansubs, I'd have left the anime "hobby" entirely. As it is, I now see MUCH more than I buy, but I do still buy, and I do still recommend stuff to other people.
>>
But it's different for DVDs of movies. Chances are we've seen tons of movies on cable or HBO. And older movies are generally dirt fucking cheap.

Again, it always comes back to the fact that anime needs more exposure to sell DVDs. Putting ads on ANN is only preaching to the choir that already knows if they're gonna buy that show or not.
>>
i was gonna buy some shana dvd's but yeah, you win this one geneon
>>
>>10238216
I dunno. Maybe they're reaching for the newfag wanna-bes who will buy shit they see advertised because, like wow, they saw it on a real genuine official anime site.

I never ever read their site (or see ads, for that matter), and I'm certainly not their target audience.
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>>10238256
Especially if most fans believe that the fansubs do a better job with translation, sub quality, etc. Some companies have tried to combat it with limited edition sets, etc but most people won't shell out an extra $20 for a pillow case and a postcard. Having pencilboards in every dvd, or booklets with extra info would definitely be an incentive for me, much like how Geneon did it with several series (Kamichu, etc). But having ugly subs, dumbass translation, and even worse voice casting with minimal if any extras is not something that will urge fans to get into it. I for one will not pay so much money for dvd that's crap just to take up space on my shelf with nothing to show for it.

Granted, there are some stupid pissants who acknowledge this and have the money but choose not to buy dvds, and will readily download series that have been finished on dvd for years, and never even considered it. But everyone has their reasons, pride, etc. It just pisses me off for Answerman to generalize everyone into two groups as if there's no in between and as if everyone under 25 years of age is a horrible person.
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Answerman fucking pisses me off. As if the ONLY people buying dvds are those who have been around since VHS subs and the underground anime circuit, and everyone who got into it after the invention of the internet is an anarchist who doesn't give a shit about businesses or companies.

I am one of those who follows fansubs and buys dvds of shows that I really like. I bought the Haruhi dvds and plan on buying Ouran for this reason. I watched it fansubbed, waited for it to be released stateside, and then bought the dvds. I for one do not want to dish out $25 a pop for a show that I know nothing about past the synopsis and reviews, only to find that it's not what I thought and a waste of time. I would likely lose interest completely because I don't have the funds to support such an expensive habit. And without fansubs, there are countless shows I never would have even considered that are fantastic, just for the ability to download and take a series for a trial run for free. Not everyone gets a weekly allowance from their mommies and daddies to afford it.

If distribution companies want to keep from sinking, they should start doing more manga or have manga on the side, like how Viz does it and ADV had. Much more people buy manga than dvds because it's so much cheaper for the same amount of story (1 volume of a manga is roughly equivalent to a whole dvd or more of the anime, usually).
>>
I love Answerman; he's a troll that gets paid to do it. That's got to be the best job in the internets.
>>
>>10237776
I hate people like you. You won't buy a product unless it meets every minute detail that you desire and it's set at "X" fixed price. Newsflash: The company is trying to make a profit, so they are going to cater to the large audience. If you expect them to meet your every expectation then your reasoning is flawed. Then you complain that the prices are too high. But anime dvd prices have been at it's lowest in recent years. Compared to a few years back when dvds were $30 for 3 episodes or even in the vhs days when you'd be lucky to get a tape with 2 episodes for $30. Nowadays you can get 4 episode volumes for under $20. They can't lower the prices anymore without losing money since there's too many people like you who don't buy the dvds because "they are too high of price."
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>>10238277

Answerman counters your voice actor complaint with a "BAWWW YOU DON'T KNOW JAPANESE, ACCEPT THE DUBS DUBBS ABABABWDBBAAAAW"

The only thing I can say about not understanding Japanese or getting the full impact of the language is: At least I'm not aware of shitting voice acting when I listen to the Japanese track.
>>
If I go into Barnes and Nobles and read a book till I'm done and keep it back on the shelf am I morally at fault?

If I turn on the telly and watch a random cartoon for free am I morally at fault? If I Dvr it am I committing crimes against humanity?

Answerman is a fucking faggot.
>>
>>10238351

Again, I hate their complaints of doing this. A lot of manga take less than half an hour to read. And they cost $10. I'm not going to buy $100 worth of a manga just because I read a few chapters in volume one. Are you fucking crazy? I will however purchase manga I already know are good and are worth re-reading several times (Berserk, Hellsing, Claymore, JoJo, etc.)
>>
>>10238351
>If I go into Barnes and Nobles and read a book till I'm done and keep it back on the shelf am I morally at fault?

Only if you also don't drink their overpriced coffee.
>>
>>10238300
I discounted this idea in the past, but maybe you're right. His columns are often exactly what a troll would say, and they didn't used to be like this the first time he was around, at least not so bad.
>>
>If I go into Barnes and Nobles and read a book till I'm done and keep it back on the shelf am I morally at fault?

no that just makes you a faggot, that and bookstores do need to police against that shit better, i hate having to wade around people to find what i was looking for
>>
>>10238397

I don't try to be one of those faggots who sits on the floor by the manga section. They all need a proper talking to about how to go fucking sit in a chair somewhere. Reading manga is no different from magazines for me, and the bookstore employees generally don't give a shit if you buy or not so long as you don't fucking leave a giant stack of whatever at the table you sitting at.
>>
>>10238397
Then order it online fucktard.
>>
>>10238310
Anime DVD boxed sets are still often 13 30 minute episodes for ~$60. TV boxed sets are more like $45 for 22+ 60 minute episodes. I realize the markets are very different, but that's still way too much of price difference for me to be satisfied paying that much. If anime companies can't make money at a reasonable price, they need to stop sucking so hard.
>>
>If I go into Barnes and Nobles and read a book till I'm done and keep it back on the shelf am I morally at fault?

No but they can kick you out of the store.

>If I turn on the telly and watch a random cartoon for free am I morally at fault?

You aren't watching the cartoon "for free." The advertisements from commercials are paying for it.

>If I Dvr it am I committing crimes against humanity?

Stupid reasoning. Nice attempt to make your "argument" appear more important though.
>>
>>10238351
I work at Barnes & Noble, you bastards clog up the store sometimes. Make sure you put the book back in its proper place, because if you leave it lying around it's more work for us to do, and it's a slave labor job already. We can't babysit or clean up after customers because managers make us do everything at once in the store.

>>10238408
I get 50% off the cafe and even then it's pretty pricey. Coffee sucks ass, especially Starbucks.
>>
>>10237776
Actually, DVD that are sub-only tend to do WORSE. That's why niche titles are usually sub-only DVD because they weren't expected to be much of a hit. Most fans, the casual ones usually, don't like subtitles. Thus it would be further in the shitter.
>>
>>10238310
I don't buy the DVDs because I don't give a shit about the R1 DVD market.
>>
books lose money from libraries, are libraries evil?
>>
>>10238482
But their food is kinda good.

Mmmmm, Pumpkin Cheesecake...
>>
>>10238482
That was me who left those copies of Femme Fatale, Hellsing and the Ruby on rails for developers in the children section, btw.
>>
>>10238504
This only I buy R2 instead. Some of the stuff you get with boxed sets can be pretty awesome.
>>
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>>10238532
YES.
>>
>>10238532
Libraries suck. The books smell weird and are usually all beat up.

Buying for life!
>>
>>10238517
fucking casuals
>>
>>10238532
A library, it is a place you can go and read most anything for free, as often as you want, with most (though not all) things available.
>>
>>10238300
I think Answerman is a pretty cool guy. eh gets paid to troll and doesn't afraid of anything.
>>
>>10238479
> You aren't watching the cartoon "for free." The advertisements from commercials are paying for it.

I am not paying anything as I ignore ads so it's free, or at least the cost is divided among kids and people who buys anime (the actual target of the advertisements)
>>
>>10238626
It is almost like the same as watching a fansub

You cannot argue watching fansubs without buying the anime is immoral unless you also argue that reading a book in a library without buying the book is immoral.
>>
>>10238532
Actually, libraries pay a certain fee for the book regularly, IIRC.
>>
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>>10238626
Also where smelly old men can stare at you.
>>
>I don't want to be watching Nanoha and suddenly start wondering if my downloading habits are leading to the downfall of the industry.

Nanoha: the cancer that is killing animu.
>>
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>>10238697

I wish to lick the tumor.
>>
>>10238476
The reason they put out box sets after the volume releases is to get the remaining fans to buy the series. The price is already bordering what they can make a profit with. They can't lower the prices anymore without losing money. And even if they shaved off an extra few dollars, the chances are that you still won't buy it. And why are you even comparing the anime dvd industry with the regular dvd industry? It IS two different things. Anime industry has to pay for the licenses for each episode being put out. So when they put out the dvds they have to make that money back plus whatever profit they would gain out of it. The regular dvd industry has already made the money back with their initial airing of the TV show or movie. The dvd sales are for pure profit, they have little to lose. That is why it's priced way less. You want to know why I hate people like you? You are willing to make any sort of excuse, no matter how small or absurd it is, to NOT to buy the product and I find that downright stupid.
>>
>>10235236
They'll get moar money, duh? What are you? Some kind of fag that cares about the companies?
>>
If there's a series that you first see as a fansub, you enjoy enough and the R1 company does a good enough job (I understand not supporting bad releases), what stops you from not getting it?
>>
Why hasn't /a/ destroyed answerfag yet?
>>
>>10238710
I assume you have brought every R1 DVD of every show you have ever seen fansubbed, correct?
>>
>>10238738
>what stops you from not getting it?
s/not//;
>>
>>10238738
>what stops you from not getting it?

the price

if it costs more then 0 cents, I will not buy it.
>>
The anime industry exploits the sad fantasies of the lowest of the low with piss poor effort and a near slave like work environment. It has done nothing but help keep myself happy as I spiral into decay and stagnation. It is a horrible industry and I gladly await it's demise.
>>
>>10238786

So then you hate anime. What the hell are you doing here

God, I hate most of the modern fandom mindset.
>>
>>10238729
he indirectly gave us KnJ
>>
>>10238738
>If there's a series that you first see as a fansub, you enjoy enough and the R1 company does a good enough job (I understand not supporting bad releases), what stops you from not getting it?

I ask myself this question. "Would I rather be a moralfag, or keep my money?"
>>
>>10238647
Doesn't matter if you are "ignoring" the ads or not. It's still paying for the show to air.
>>
If R1 companies just stopped dubbing, that would cut the cost of their dvd production, and then they could sell a series a whole lot cheaper and they could release the series while there is still alot of hype for it.

It's kind of stupid going to a convention that advertises how amazing an anime is that i've been over for a year.
>>
>>10238819
You fool! You don't yet realize that /a/ haet anime?
>>
>>10238479
>>You aren't watching the cartoon "for free." The advertisements from commercials are paying for it.
Whether or not the adverts pay for the show
doesn't change the fact that I'm not shelling out 20 dollars for very three episodes of qua team hunger force that I watch.

>>No but they can kick you out of the store.

They can kick me out but they've also lost a potential customer that would have bought a book that caught his fancy.

>>Stupid reasoning. Nice attempt to make your "argument" appear more important though.

Wut
>>
>>10238670
But the people enjoying the books don't.
>>
>>10238786
anime should be made illegal.
I feel like John Rambo: I kill powerful ninjas, save universes, fight in huge robots and stop wars and then I have to go to work...
Of course I feel apathic, reality can't be as awesome as fantasy.
>>
If someone would release Legend of the Galactic Heroes, I would buy it even if it ended up priced at $2000.

The thing here is I don't quite feel obliged to pay for shit; nor should I feel obliged. Most of the shows that get released are rather lackluster.

If the show is good, gives me a unique experience (yes I know all shows run same archetypes and whatnot, but you can still get two different experiences from two similar shows) and isn't a complete one trick pony (read: most fanservice shows), hey I'll buy it.

Even then, sometimes I got bullshit when I bought the shows I liked. Yes, I'm talking about you Zeta Gundam R1 DVDs.
>>
>The first would be the old guard;
Animu wasn't even mainstream in the 90's. What a load of hypocritical bull; if anything bootlegged VHS sales were up at comic cons and the like because not nearly as many series were commercially released on DVD.

So then how does he think that older fans somehow supported DVD sales in the past, more than the younger ones?

>The other is a new breed of fan
... which can be had for free with no ads and zero consequences

So if I change the channel during ads or use ADblock I'm immoral? Try again.

>but have no personal investment in it.
>become bizarrely militant about it

LOL contradicting information there.
>>
I think Answerman hit the nail on the head but ignored his own point:
>The other is a new breed of fan - generally much younger than the first, and is quite used to getting anime for free. They were "raised", in a sense, on fansubs; anime is a disposable medium, something they watch because they can do it for free

>something they watch because they can do it for free

Basically he is admitting if it weren't for fansubs, those fans wouldn't be watching anime in the first place. This means that there has been 0 profit lost from these fans. There are however a SHITLOAD of these new fans who go to cons and purchase merchandise which in turn goes back to the industry.
Overall Net Profit.
>>
>>10238834

WTF has this to do with morals? If there's a show I like, I'm going to buy it because I want to actually own it and know that the money they get supports the creators and give incentive for more licenses like that.

No, I don't buy shows blind. I do read reviews and things.
>>
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SUPERIOR
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>>10238923

The obvious decision between "do I spend money on buying the DVD or do I burn this fansub on a DVD." I imagine.
>>
>>10235676

Everyone listen to this man and go home.
>>
>>10238647
learn2economics.

I hope you can enjoy your internet without ads. Byebye a lot of things you like, also, byebye 4chan
>>
>>10238923
fair enough

however as I don't care if the show comes over, I choose to keep my money.
>>
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>>10238967
I do enjoy my internet without ads.
>>
>>10238979
Are you blocking the 4chan ads?
>>
>>10238989
Everyone's blocking 4chans ads.
>>
Japan is actually cracking down on raw cappers now and even some have been arrested.
>>
>>10238923
those using 'moralfag' tend to just be rationalizing the fact that they never will put money into the industry that entertains them
>>
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>>10238626
It's free because the government pays for the books through the taxes you pay, but don't take my word for it!
>>
I have been downloading fansubs for years... as well as buying physical dvds.

All of the DVDs of series I have bought in the last few years are from shows that I either watched all or some of on the internet.
>>
>>10238967

Agreed.

People here seem to be under the assumption that anime appears out of thin air when you have to think about all the work that goes into it.
>>
>>10239005
I'm not. In fact, I click once a week on each one..
>>
>>10239030
you lie, books magically appear out of thin air
>>
I would watch anime on TV if it aired the same time here subbed (so I can understand it) and was ad supported
>>
>>10239068
>>(so I can understand it)

In before some faggot says "That's what dubs are for." and actually believes it.
>>
>>10238967
you are missing something.
I'm not the one asking for a service here.
Any company wanting an ad to be broadcasted pays the tv station and the ad is actually broadcasted.
Since the tv stations want to make me watch their programs and their ads, they run movies, cartoons whatever.
I'm in charge, I don't have to watch ads, the companies pay tv stations and they know this won't guarantee sales.
>>
Actually, I do buy most shows blind (of course I have to read reviews). Seeing a show on TV doesn't give me the assentive to buy since most anime I buy can never be put on TV (unless we turn back the clock to when the Sci-Fi played those awesome anime OVA's. I miss that).

Last month I got the Nadesico thinpack for only $32. Never saw it before, but was interested in it.
>>
I don't consider fansubbing to be stealing simply because even if I couldn't get it for free, I still wouldn't buy it. It's not like the industry is missing out on some contribution I would make if I couldn't download animu.
>>
>>10239009
In Singapore, they've been caned.

HA HA HA HA HA!
>>
>>10239097
>>I'm not the one asking for a service here.

Oh yeah, you're asking for a product. Thanks for noting it for me.
>>
I just choose to spend my money carefully and buy DVDs of things that I like. With some good bargaining, I can get a new DVD for $10-$15. Hardly a bad deal.

I know what I like because of fansubs, of course.
>>
I can't help but facepalm at anonymous's stupidity every time this argument comes up.

Capitalist pig bullshit or not, if they don't profit, then they can't afford to make anymore anime. They have to buy supplies and distribute it, and the staff has to eat. They can't very well do any of that without money.

The R1 industry may not give money directly to the studios, but they do give money to the broadcasting companies that fund the studios. If they're happy, they'll continue to fund anime studios so that they can continue to make more anime. You ARE helping to keep the Japanese anime industry healthy by buying R1 DVDs.

I'm not saying that you should stop watching fansubs or buy every series that you watched subbed, that "crack would be cheaper" thing might not be an exaggeration if you're a serious fan and you bought every DVD for every anime series you were interested in, but you should at least buy your favorites.
>>
>>10239121
And yet you enjoy it and watch it in complete.
>>
>>10239150
I'm that kind of anime buyer. I'm not the one who buys overprized stuff, but I still buy something.

Not buying at all is another thing.
>>
>>10238942
Except for that man is wrong. Why do people still believe that Japanese didn't pay to watch animu? They pay to watch TV period. Not counting that they have to pay extra for the satellite channels.

And the Japanese are bitching in some degree. Oh how we forget that the Japanese government mentioned to the US to try to stop fansubbing back in summer?
>>
>>10239169

But the anime industry is already shit. I doubt throwing more money will make them decide to produce more western oriented shows. Whether or not we buy now will not change the taste of the otaku of Japan, the primary audience. They want moe, THEY FUCKING GET IT. And then why they decide they want more space opera, THEY GET IT.
>>
>>10239134
yeah, right, because I'm a dvd feticist and I like to stick my penis in the central hole.

When I buy a movie, I'm not paying because I like the case, or the mirror layer: I'm buying it for the emotions it will encite.
I'm giving money to the artist who protitutes his soul for money.
>>
>>10239169

That's if they're released in R1.

Most of mine are not, unfortunately. And I doubt they'll ever be licensed.
>>
>>10239155

I enjoy 10% of it, but not enough to actually spend money on it.

Same reason I download movies. Most are crap, and even if a few aren't, I'm not going to spend $40 to go to a theater it.

Really, the fact that it's free is probably the main reason I watch either at all.
>>
>>10239206

If fansubs are taken away, we'll simply stop giving a shit and move on. It's not like we're suddenly start buying DVDs.
>>
>>10239271
lol 40bucks, buy less popcorn
>>
>>10239273
and /a/ will cease to exist.
>>
>>10239271
>>spend $40 to go to a theater it.
Holy shit, in which third world country do you live? Kazakhstan?
>>
There's nothing wrong with watching fansubs. But when you are saving licensed titles to your computer or burning them on a disc to watch over and over again, without paying for them, you are a parasite and the cancer killing the anime industry.
>>
>>10239242

When Americans decided they wanted more Big O, they got it.
>>
>>10239206
Because they DON'T. Electric and cable bills don't count.
>>
>>10239273
.... You remind me that macro picture:

/b/: I can quit anytime, it's just that I don't want to.
>>
This thread isn't even coherent anymore.
>>
>>10239371
Underage detected. Taxes and cable subscription count. You'll know when you'll live alone.
>>
>>10239383
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
SAGE DETECTED
>>
>>10239334
yeah, because the average /a/nimist watch anime regularly...
>>
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>>
Watch Gurren Lagann.

BEST EVER.
>>
>>10239394
...What else do you do? If the animes you watch are anything but the popular ones you're a giant weeaboo faggot.
>>
Kaiji E-card explains why we still have copyright law. Copyright greatly harms the majority to benefit the minority, but the majority keep believing that one day they they will get to be the Emperor and shit all over the Citizens. They'll never band together and say "fuck your system", because they can never shake the belief that they could be at the top. The system is safe. This is the same principle that keeps crack dealers working for less than minimum wage.

But lucky for Anonymous, technology marches on and renders the whole mess unenforceable.
>>
I like how nighttime /a/ is somehow wiser

>>10239364
That man is right.
>>
>>10239370
But Big-O wasn't direct-to-DVD.
>>
>people who maybe download some fansubs and keep up with the community but still maintain a healthy, active interest in new anime and still buy DVDs and merchandise.
What's that "but" about? Anyone that has an interest in NEW anime watches fansubs.

Compare
>download some fansubs
>keep up with the community
to
>quite used to getting anime for free.
>mired in the social circles that surround it
Isn't he just making up a distinction where "people I like" and "people I don't like" would suffice? I fail to see how these two categories he made up are different besides the phrasing and relative self-righteousness.
>>
...What else do you do? If the anime you watch is anything but the popular ones that are dubbed and aired on US TV you're a giant weeaboo faggot.
>>
>>10239387
No they don't.
>>
Answerman is a faggot and a shill, but in this case (rhetoric aside) he's mostly right. Those of us who've been watching anime since the mid '90s mostly DO buy. I keep up with all the new shows via torrent, but when a show I enjoyed watching enough to archive gets licensed, I buy the DVD's. If I didn't enjoy it that much, then I don't buy the DVD (but I don't archive it, either). I don't download licensed shows, either.

Where I disagree with Answerman here is that I don't make a big moral crusade out of it, because it's pointless to do so, and because people need to judge the ethics of it for themselves, anyhow. Still, I do get pretty disgusted about all the underage b& newfags who have a shit fit every time anyone even mentions paying for anime. Yeah, I pay for it, given the chance. It's not your money, it's mine - deal with it.
>>
>>10239441
>>10239394
>>
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I have plenty of money to buy DVDs....I just don't want to.
>>
>>10239323

If I'm going to a theater it's on a date.

I know that's probably a foreign concept for most of /a/, so I should have been more specific.
>>
>>10239510
saving up your allowance isnt the same
>>
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>>10239510
....I'm not underage. =|
>>
>>10239364

I am happily killing the western "industry" then.
>>
My favorite R1 company CPM went dormant because the modern fan base doesn't care for those awesome OVA's anymore.
>>
>>10239564
Yeah. The western industry needs a euthanasia.
>>
>>10239555
don't worry, I'm not a weeaboo either
>>
>>10239527
I don't know where you live, but where I live, tickets, popcorn, candy, AND drinks for two people rarely exceed $25. I can go to a movie by myself for under $15, and I'm a fatass.
>>
anime community = a grouping of people who gather to kill time between episodes. This mostly consists of trolling and masturbating to shared hentai.

Yes, lets buy buy buy so we can keep this thing going. Its so worth it.
>>
>>10239481

I think people make a hissy fit over the "buy" thing because most people seek to place themselves on a pedestal by saying "I SUPPORT THE INDUSTRY THAT YOU ALL ARE DESTROYING."

I do both. I regularly buy shows that I like on DVD, but I will also download shows I'm interested in, licensed or no. If I had the cash availiable and the will do do so, I will buy what I can, but I don't go out and download something for the hell of it either.

People need to just get it into their heads that nobody cares. This is a conflict that will not be solved unless some genuine enforceable consequences are put in place to prevent fansubbing. Arguing about the morality of it is insipid, the horse is already dead and has been dead for a long, long time.
>>
>>10239364
We are all parasites leeching on earth and the sun for resources and energy anyway.
It only depends on who leech where and burocracy (aka laws)
>>
>>10235676
Television series are partially paid for by advertising dollars, moran. You know, the same reason why its just as illegal to download episodes of 24? BUT IT AIRS ON TV SO IT MUST BE FREE!
>>
Well, I for one will continue to buy shows I like enough so long as I think they're at a good price.
>>
These days I'll download anything, licensed or not.

But once I've watched a licensed series I've pirated, I'll delete it regardless of how I felt about it.

If I really liked it, I'll buy it.
>>
>>10239613

underage B&
>>
Trying to censor sharing of information is always more immoral than sharing information. Copyright as a social contract to trade a short term monopoly for incentive to promote useful arts and sciences may once have been plausible, but that time is long since gone. Anytime you use the phrase "intellectual property" you buy into the lies of the oppressors - it's not property, you can't own information. It's a temporary right given by the people, and when it becomes clear than the people are being screwed they can take that right away. But the average dumbshit falls for the information hoarders propaganda, or even thinks he could be an information hoarder themselves, so fuck this, we're going mesh networks and onion routing and CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.

Imagine every motherfucking work of art, every scientific paper, every textbook, every game and movie and painting and novel, the sum total of all human knowledge available to every human on the planet at the click of a button. This is now 100% technologically feasible, and anyone with access to a decent private filesharing network already has a taste of just how good it can be. THIS is what we are missing because of some greedy elitist fuckers think they can own numbers.
>>
>>10239593
I'd have to find a new hobby, and then I might turn to WowCrack again, which is worse than my current state.
>>
anime has ruined my life, why should i pay for something that makes me more of a failure of a human being
>>
>>10239638
i wasnt aware that a simple click of a button will put the mona lisa on my wall or a private jet in my driveway
>>
>>10239628
I go and pay 10 bucks a day to some idiot to stop in some park and shout COCKDOODLEDOOOOO at 12 o' clock each day.
According to you people who hear him are paying for it.
>>
>>10239670
But it can put a high-res scan and detailed schematics there. Metal is scare, but electrons are not.
>>
>>10239596
The thing that bothers me is that every fucking thread about a box set or the like gets "sage for buying anime." That's not about people seeking to put themselves on a pedestal, it's people discussing a product that they are interested in. People who aren't interested need to learn to ignore it rather than trolling and sagebombing. Yeah, I know that's come to be heresy on 4chan, but it SHOULDN'T be: all of 4chan is not /b/.
>>
If I REALLY wanted to, I could learn Japanese, move to Japan, live in a shithole and endure the racism so I could watch anime on TV for free.

But that would be stupid.

So because I'm not willing to do that stupid thing...I'm not allowed to see anime for free? Because I'm not in the right place?
>>
>>10239670
sorry to hear it doesn't work that way for you.
>>
As much as I dislike Answerman he's basically right about the type (basic) types of anime fans. I utterly despise the pathetic 14 year old "lol I'm never paying for anime ever faggots" 'fan'

I don't download anime because I want to pay nothing or be part of the fucktarded community.

I buy all good anime. To know something is good, I need to have seen it completely without any real kind of cost, like I do with tv shows I watch on tv. How do I do that legally, within reasonable time of the show airing in Japan. Oh yeah, you don't.

I don't want free anime. I want the current terrible anime business model that is based on suckers blind purchasing to die.
>>
>>10239613
>I go and pay 10 bucks a day to some idiot to stop in some park and shout COCKDOODLEDOOOOO at 12 o' clock each day.
DO IT, FAGGOT
>>
>>10239670
movie != dvd
>>
>>10239696
you seem to have missed the point on more than one level,

a high-res scan of the mona lisa is not the mona lisa

and detailed schematics =/= owning an actual plane

gotta love anarchists, but i digress we are off topic
>>
>>10239638

Copyright law exists some jackoff doesn't blatantly copy someones work and claim it as his own. How would you feel if you wrote a book, and then someone copied your book, word for word, but marketed it better than you did. He is getting more money than you are, essentially doing nothing, because he let you do all the work, and is getting more money because of it.

Its not hoarding information, its preventing people from taking advantage of others hard work for nothing.

Even though I freely download things and trounce upon copyright law all the time, I realize that in some form it is necessary to maintain it. Of course, thats just me falling prey to information-hoarder propaganda and brainwashing right?
>>
I have no such morals or restraint. I take what I can get and what I can get I take all of. I don't mock anyone for paying, hey it's your money. But at the same time your words spoken from atop a moral pedestal fall upon deaf ears.

I am free and so is my anime. Try and stop me.
>>
>>10239579
>>10239564
You think that by not buying dvds that you are only affecting the Western industry but not Japan? Some anime production companies do rely on international licenses and will take that into account for when they hire extra staff on a specific production. If you think that you are only affecting the western industry when you don't buy dvd you are sadly mistaking.
>>
what about the people that were importing fansubs on vhs back in the day. had to buy a fucking ntsc player just to watch the shit.
>>
>>10239762
>I don't want free anime. I want the current terrible anime business model that is based on suckers blind purchasing to die.

This.

But also requiring death is the model where they price 2 episodes/DVD for $40 each because they know there's 200 hard core fans ("suckers") who will pay any price.
>>
>>10239832
No they don't.
>>
Physical objects beyond the minimum needed to survive are a kind of mental trap. You get hung up on thinking this crap is valuable, but one fire or flood or war or whatever and it's all gone in seconds. Information is the only thing that's immortal, and information is the only thing of real value. We have the technology and natural resources to keep everybody on the planet warm and well fed, but the same psychological defects responsibly for today's fucked up information monopoly laws prevents this from happening.

Recently I lost a lot of books due to water damage, but I realized that it didn't matter at all. Any book worth reading is already scanned and distributed. Anyone with internet access and the skill to use it is already rich beyond the wildest dreams of those who seek to control us. As things like the OLPC project show, we can network the whole damn planet, and then we'll see some real social change. Maybe you don't understand yet, but this is an exciting time to be alive.
>>
>>10239789
this is how i feel. true neutral.
>>
>>10239782
> Copyright law exists some jackoff doesn't blatantly copy someones work and claim it as his own.

With the speed information spread nowadays this is quite unlikely: in a short time the truth would be exposed.
Anyways you should be glad your book's famous, not you are famous, as the internet has proven it's not right to be an attention whore.
>>
>>10239859
/thread
>>
>>10239762
And therein lies the REAL distinction. The two type of anime fans can really be categorized as:

*People who want anime (and usually entertainment in general) for free.
*People who are willing to pay, but are frustrated by the business model.

How the former can be seen as anything other than thievery defies me.
>>
>>10239782
Plagiarism is completely unrelated. Lying is wrong regardless of intellectual monopoly laws.

>>10239780
A high enough resolution scan of the Mona Lisa *is* the Mono Lisa. You're falling for the trickery of physical objects. The only value is in the information, the real thing is just a piece of paper!
>>
>>10239878
except for the unlimited resources thing
>>
I don't think I could ever feel bad about pirating a series that turns out to be crap and deleting it rather than spending dozens of dollars to find out the same thing and being left holding the worthless DVDs to dispose of somehow.
>>
>>10239889
>How the former can be seen as anything other than thievery defies me.

Not going to try to justify this as "morally right" however I don't give a shit.
>>
>>10238899
Fans from the 90's saw that DVD was hot shit, especially compared to the inferior VHS tapes, in a time where internet was shit. I was 14 when I bought the Evangelion DVD boxset and watched it all. These were in the days before BitTorrent, which had pushed DVDs to the sidelines.

>>10239119
I'm sure you'd rage pretty hard if you bought Code Geass blind.

>>10239169
Do the writers and staff of anime series in Japan get residuals from R1 DVD sales? If there's no proof that that is the case, then your theory goes right out the window.
>>
>A high enough resolution scan of the Mona Lisa *is* the Mono Lisa. You're falling for the trickery of physical objects. The only value is in the information, the real thing is just a piece of paper!

it dosnt matter how much it looks like the real thing, if it wasnt painted on by hand by leonardo da vinci its just a worthless copy

you seem to fail at realizing that the more of something there is, the less value each copy holds

there is also the fact that, information in and of itself wont put a roof over your head or food in your stomach, so yeah those books you lost were just paper and not worth much in themselves
>>
>>10239782
Except that copyright as applied to published materials is a modern concept. Copyright over private papers is a very old idea, but extending it past publication dates only well after the invention of the printing press. It was made possible by the rarity of said presses. Now it's become an outmoded concept, as copying is within the power of anyone.

It may just be that the arts are going to need to go back a patronage system, such as existed for centuries before modern copyright came along. It worked pretty well, after all: all Ancient, Mediaeval, and Renascence art and literature was produced under such as system, after all.
>>
>>10239913

It IS related, as it is one of the reasons that copyright law exists.

Who cares if lying is "wrong?" Do you think that would stop anyone who could? Human beings are in no way noble, and we all too eagerly revert to animal instincts when the opportunity presents itself. Simply saying it is irrelevant because plagiarism is "wrong" won't stop it from happening.

I agree its not a good system. I agree that it is NOT prepared for the internet, or the future. But it has to exist, SOME SYSTEM has to exist.

Fix it, change it, rearrange it. I don't care, as long as it there. Just don't say its "outdated" and throw it out the window. It needs to be there.
>>
>>10240068
>Do you think that would stop anyone who could?

Well it has stopped everyone in some situation at some point in their lives.
>>
>>10240032
It's infinitely replicable, the rarity is limited only by demand. Rarity value of non-scare items is bullshit, the value is in the information. Do you think the works of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are somehow less valuable because they are not restricted by monopoly? Anyone is free to play this music, and it remains as great as it ever was. The original musicians are dead, but the information is immortal.
>>
>>10239527
You taking three bitches out at the same time? Tickets are 10 bucks a pop, man. I see through your deception!
>>
>>10240151
>Tickets are 10 bucks
I believe he was including snacks, etc. in his estimate, but even then he's high. As I said before, $25 for two people is about right (but I'm only paying $8 for tickets, not $10).
>>
>>10240068
Preventing fraud (lying about authorship) is completely unrelated to preventing sharing of information. See "works for hire", copyright as "author rights" is a myth.

And yes, most people are evil motherfuckers, but they can't fight physics. Digital information is trivially replicable, so replicate it will. Saying "information wants to be free" is like saying "water wants to be wet".
>>
ITT people who download anime argue with other people who download anime over who is more moral about downloading anime
>>
>>10240068
It "has to exist", because you dream of one day being the Big Man, one day being the great and powerful oppressor who shits all over the little people. Your dismissal of ethics doesn't surprise me at all. Your dream is of course not possible. The true elite don't waste time posting on 4chan, but they're smart enough to manipulate people like you into buying into their little power fantasies.
>>
>>10240122
please name a great invention that was created and freely given out with no benifit for the creator

oh wait it dosnt work that way, go back to hitting rocks together to make fire since technology wouldnt be nearly as far along now as it is
>>
>>10240270
can you post your book of retoric for us? you forgot that line was already used
>>
>>10239628
When you're an American living in America, downloading an American show, that is one thing. But Japan can't touch me or my animu.

>>10240032
>there is also the fact that, information in and of itself wont put a roof over your head or food in your stomach, so yeah those books you lost were just paper and not worth much in themselves

Worthless money, like the German bank notes after the war, can't put a roof over your head or food on your table either, but information is priceless and can be used even in the poorest country.
>>
>>10240270

I don't give a shit about being the big man you pissant.

Humanity won't do anything unless there is a deterrent to prevent it from doing so. Without any kind of bylaws or procedures, it would be a case of he said/she said on just about every issue on everything.

Sorry, I'm not buying into your bullshit intellectualism. Next you'll try and preach that anarchy is a good idea right?
>>
>>10240374
yes tell that to some shithole in africa and enjoy being laughed out of the country
>>
>>10240402

meant pseudointellectualism*.
>>
>>10240272
You name an invention made out of whole cloth, by a true independent inventor. "Standing on the shoulders of giants" and all that.

And "no benefit" to the author is a ridiculous straw man. There's nothing wrong about charging money for services, nothing wrong with gaining fame and social value from your creativity. Only when you try to control other people's communication do you step over the line. eg. Free Software uses copyright law only to fight against the harmful effects of copyright, and say all you like about "lol linux sucks", 4chan is running on Free software so you're using it right now.

Inventions are made out of necessity. Humans invented and created before people thought they could control and restrict other people's sharing of knowledge, and they'll continue to invent and create long after it become clear that intellectual monopolies are unworkable.
>>
wtf, you idiots coming up with information being priceless, cause you know it appears out of nothing like magic, just like the air you breath
>>
>>10240437
The information that sex without a condom = AIDS is pretty valuable information to poor Africans, I would think.
>>
>information is priceless

and

>There's nothing wrong about charging money for services, nothing wrong with gaining fame and social value from your creativity

dont go together as well as you would have us beleive
>>
>>10240604
so is the information that sleeping with a virgin cures it idiot
>>
>>10240402
Anarchy is as dumb as libertarianism. A socialist government is the only long term workable solution, because oppress people enough and eventually you lower your guard for a second and they'll rise up and crush you. Kaiji E-card again: Slave beats Emperor. Rare, but enough of a risk that even the most rightwing asshole can't get away with a pure "fuck the poor" attitude.

>>10240437
Give the average person in Shithole, Africa a communications infrastructure an they're in a much better position to make changes.
>>
>>10240644
That's false information. Point moot.
>>
>>10240627
I don't mean "priceless" as in infinite value, I mean it literally does not make sense to apply a monetary value to a non-scare item.

Services require time, which is a limited resource.
>>
>>10240669

Are you that one guy who kept doing pro socialist rants on the former /n/?
>>
289 posts and 11 image replies omitted.

Good job, /a/.
>>
>>10240758

It seems that /a/ enjoys kicking dead horses and running around in circles.
>>
>>10240748
Maybe once or twice, but I'm probably not the Anonymous you're thinking of.
>>
Sure, anime helped spread awareness. Years ago. When we had 640x480 crappy raws with simple subs distroed in some channel somewhere. Today's 720P HD/upscaled raws with superior than DVD quality and sound? Not so much.

But then I know Japanese, so I don't really care what happens to the US companies.

>>10238277
It works in Japan, it just doesn't work elsewhere. English anime fans on the whole are not amused by the SUPER EXTRA GOODIES that come with LEs when it comes to anime.
>>
>>10240774
We also enjoy kicking dead horses around in circles.
>>
>>10240272
Bittorrent.

Ironic, I know.
>>
>>10240272
TCP/IP?



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