After re-watching the first and final three episodes of Yosuga No Sora I finally realized what was wrong with Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai (aka My Sister Can't Be This Much of a Bitch). It was contrived.
I went back to watch the first episode of OreImo and while it did hint at the fact that Kirino did have some weird feelings towards Kyosuke, his feelings towards her were never set up, at all. One could argue about his dream in the beginning, but it seemed all he wished for was for a cute little sister to at least, acknowledge and treat him like an older brother. His feelings towards her never seemed to be sexual in nature, at any point. I could go out on a limb and say the same for her as well, unless you want to count the little sister porn games.
In the first episode of YnS there was a scene where Haru fantasized about making out with Sora. This is the set up that let's the audience know that "Hey! This kid is sexually attracted to his twin sister." We were then paid off come their sex scene. OreImo delivered nothing of the sort on Kyosuke's part. If Yosuga No Sora left out that particular scene the entire Sora arc would have been as contrived as Kyosuke and Kirino hooking up.
That's because the author is a talentless hack and now he's starting another otaku pandering incest LN so that the faggots off /a/ can lap his shit up.
You obviously don't have an imouto, or lived a normal life with one.
While watching the first episode of OreImo I felt that I was looking too hard for the set up for him and couldn't find it. I didn't have to do this in Yosuga No Sora. In fact the first episode set up the entire story and even the ending came full circle with them on the train again looking to go to a new place looking for a new life.
I feel that a bunch of people are going to tell me to read the book, but there is no reason for the writers of the anime to leave something so pivotal out in the first place. This is story writing 101. Not having a clear set up and just bringing in things towards the end of the story makes them seem contrived. As an audience I want to be rewarded for paying attention to your story. Expecting me to suspend belief is you, the author, being an asshole not only to me, but to your story as well.
Go read the LNs.
That is unfortunate. I feel that the author is just appealing to the lowest common denominator at this point. I assume that fans are really projecting themselves into the story rather than really enjoying it for being a solid, good story.
YnS isn't Shakespeare, but it sure does seem like it after suffering through OreImo.
Is there a part that sets up Kyosuke's feelings toward his sister? If so, then please quote the passage.
If there isn't then the author is just that, a hack.
Also, aside from Manami, Kirino and Kyosuke didn't have any opposition. The parents casted him into his own apartment in which his sister came to visit him quite often. In fact, had they been having an affair at that time their parents just gave them a place to have all the sex they wanted.
Really? The mother may have questioned his relationship to her, but did they ever follow up?! If they had, I assumed that would have been added to the anime, but it wasn't.
What does this have to do with OreImo being a shit story? Nothing.
Yes. I understand why you think what you think, it's one of the reasons that Oreimo as an anime is awful. It's a terrible adaptation of a great LN series.
Kyousuke's feelings are foreshadowed from Volume 1, so are Kirino's. They confess to each other in Volume 2.
I'll pull some quote out here because you probably won't believe me otherwise.
>As I continued to ad-lib, I gradually became more and more emotional, and soon wasn’t even conscious of what was coming out of my mouth… the line began to blur between where the act ended and where my true feelings began. Before I knew it, my mouth was moving unconsciously and the words were flowing out on their own.
>“I LOOOOOOVE MY LITTLE SISTER!!!!”
Even earlier than this point, Kyousuke is very tsundere for her in his narration, and there are hints dropped that he likes her as more than a sister, even if he doesn't want to admit it. Everything is heavily foreshadowed via inner dialogues and narratives. In Volume 1, he's with Manami at the park and sees a group of young models at a photo shoot. He doesn't realize it because she's dressed up, but he's looking at his sister. His eyes are naturally attracted to her instead of Ayase and the other models, and he remarks on how attractive she is.
Really, the anime just did a bad job since so much of the plot relies on inner dialogues. Go read the LNs, the plot isn't contrived at all since it all works in favor of themes that have been present throughout the whole series.
No one cares to defend the anime so this thread is pretty much pointless.
To the fans of this series:
Are you really that ok with enjoying shit? Are those who defend those who defend this embarrassed of themselves?
Adding onto this since I didn't have room, it wasn't as contrived in the anime as you think, even if it was contrived compared to the source material.
Quotes like pic related should have tipped you off. There are a lot of things that foreshadow their backstory, it wasn't something that was pulled out at the last moment. Unfortunately the anime breezes over a lot of them and makes them seem less siginificant than they really are.
The problem is that Volume 11 wasn't adapted. Instead it was reassimilated into Episode 13, which seems like a contrived flashback episode to explain things, whereas in the LNs its tied to the present situation because it sets the stage for the resolution of the Sakurai incident and Kyousuke's transformation into Super Kyousuke, and also serves as contrast between Manami and Kirino in terms of their attitudes towards Kyousuke which sets Manami up as the villain of the series, the symbolic "final boss" that Kyousuke talks about in his narration in Volume 12.
End rant. Just go read the fucking light novels.
Reading is hard and it's easier just to be upset and spiteful.
YnS is a great VN, as far as they go. As an anime is really only is good in the eyes of fans of the genre or VN. Can't compare these 2 since one comes from a ln and the other comes from a VN. They approach things and set things up entirely based on different ideas
I don't remember if it was adapted into the anime, but after he comes back home, Kyousuke's mom says that she never had any suspicions to begin with and just wanted him to study.
Also, Kirino only visits him once to give him the fridge, and then for the party with everyone else. She was very respectful of his privacy and only served to inspire him by promising to do anything he wanted if he aces the test (There are several times in his narration that Kyousuke loses the will to study, remembers Kirino's promise, then gets back to it again with renewed vigor. He also mentally thanks her for the fridge several times.)
Yeah, it's a shame.
>it wasn't as contrived in the anime as you think
Yeah it pretty much was. There was no scene in the first episode that hinted at it. Not one.
That picture does nothing for the anime and it just goes to prove my point unless Kirino is the protagonist of the show rather than Kyosuke and I highly doubt that.
Sorry for my english, really try to give a good point...
Kirino is the protagonist of the series. It's basically Kirino's story told from Kyousuke's perspective. The author frequently refers to it as Kirino's story, Kirino and friends, etc.
You are coming from a place that would not warrant discussion.
Would there be anything we could say that would make you change your mind that it's not shit?
I personally really enjoyed the series, and would be happy to discuss it with you, but I don't wish to debate it, and there's the rub.
Discussion is not debate.
That is true, but as anime series that both attack the same subject matter: forbidden love amongst siblings, they can be very much compared. In fact they can still be compared to other shows in the same genre. In that the show still fails for not setting up Kyosuke's mixed feelings towards his sister.
hmm, that is true. As for LN, pretty much everyone of them out there is the same. My little sister...something something... You know? They handle the situation the same every time. VN always handles stuff more sexually. So there is a difference in how it is writtin.
But she was already in love with him. It's Kyosuke who wasn't accepting of his feelings. He's the one who had to change...not her. Kyosuke is the one who is running after Kirino not the other way around.
You fat fuck, you asked for an explanation and I gave you a detailed and thorough one. At least read my posts. And I wasn't talking about the first episode, I posted a screencap from Episode 5 or so, did you even open the image?
NOBODY is defending the anime, it's dogshit. One of the worst light novel adaptations out there.
The only thing it's good for is a few scenes that were adapted decently and then to get retards into the story so they can read the LNs which are superior in every way.
It's funny because during the events of the first episode, it is foreshadowed and hinted at in the light novels. That's not present in the anime of course. Even so, you're looking in the wrong place, as to an extent, Kyousuke hates Kirino at the beginning of the story. The whole series is about their growth, but they both loved each other from the beginning. Like I said, it's clear in the LNs but not in the anime, which no one is defending.
>VN always handles stuff more sexually. So there is a difference in how it is writtin.
I agree with you, but setups and payoffs are standard in storytelling no matter what genre or medium. So whether one story is sexual or not, it does not matter.
Kirino grows just as much as Kyousuke does. Perhaps I was off a bit. It's a story about Kirino's and Kyousuke's development as well as the development of their relationship with each other. Volumes 1-6 focus more on Kirino's growth while 6-12 are moreso Kyousuke's.
yes u r right. good point anon
>You fat fuck, you asked for an explanation and I gave you a detailed and thorough one.
You never stated WHERE that was located. I am going to read the first couple of chapters to see it for myself so it's not like I didn't read what you said.
So please calm the fuck down.
I totally understand and I agree with you 100%.
Yet, the anime never really set up how he felt about her. For example, if his dream in the beginning had been a bit more sexual in nature then I could have bought his feelings towards her later, because then I knew he had a hard on for her. This makes his coming around hard to believe later.
Stop talking about Oreimo when you haven't read the LNs, you're embarassing yourself.
They both changed. Both of them receive immense character development, at least 80% of which was cut or reduced in the anime. Part of the reason Kirino hated Kyousuke was because she was idealizing him unfairly as his past self but eventually comes to accept it and love both the old and the new Kyousuke. Kyousuke learns to be honest with himself about his feelings and who he is as a person, and to have the conviction to throw his future away for the sake of being with Kirino.
Sorry that I forgot to mention where the quote was located, but you could have just asked. It's in Volume 2. I already linked the Baka Tsuki's translation for you, so just go ctrl+f the quote or something. And in addition I also said that there's hints earlier than that. You could at least reply to my post so that I know you read it, I typed it out for your sake, Anon. I don't want to discuss this if I have doubts that you're willing to hear others out.
Listen to this Anon. He knows what he's talking about.
>Yet, the anime never really set up how he felt about her
That's because it's the anime. And the anime is a butchered adaptation. I understand your concerns. But it's an anime only problem, so if you want them resolved you should go read the light novels and enjoy the story in it's full glory. Nobody's saying the anime wasn't shit because we all agree with you.
His feelings for her are set up from his narration, which the anime lacks
>My Little Sister Can't Be This Cute
>Anime with a little sister playing incest porn games
>Title of the first episode: My Little Sister Can't Be My Love
Did you even read his post?
I did. He's talking about the first episode in the series. There's not much to get since that's the start of the entire series. What you can get is the titles, presentation and small hints of it. Most of the romance build up even in the LN starts around volume 3-5. His feelings begin to leak out around volume 5 but before that it's mostly all internal. And the anime didn't show that at all cause they wanted Kuroneko to win or some shit.
It's kinda like going into Toradora's first episode and claiming that the MC's feelings and everything in the series is contrived because he clearly liked red haired bitch back then.
In any case, Oreimo's anime adaptation is shit and most of the development happens within the MC's thoughts and beautiful denial. This is yet another example of how the anime fucked things up.
Oh okay, I just thought you were misinterpreting him as a shipperfag. My bad.
If you can find the moment in the first episode where Kyosuke's sexual love for his sister was mentioned please post screencap.
If you can I will admist defeat and delete this thread.
Defeat? What are you going on about? Nobody is arguing for the anime. You're at war with nobody.
Get off your fucking high horse, everyone already agreed with you that the anime is shit in this regard and the LNs did it properly. Why are you so concrete on holding to this argument when nobody cares because the anime is irrelevant in so many ways?
>It's kinda like going into Toradora's first episode and claiming that the MC's feelings and everything in the series is contrived because he clearly liked red haired bitch back then.
That's stupid. In ToraDora's first episode boy met girl. That was the setup that led to them hooking up.
In OreImo, boy is girl's brother. The set up would have to be the fact that his love for his sister is starting to slip beyond that of the family kind.
>The set up would have to be the fact that his love for his sister is starting to slip beyond that of the family kind.
And that is the setup.
>Nobody is arguing for the anime.
Yes you did. You even posted 'hints' and called me a:
Do you have amnesia?
>And that is the setup.
Too bad it didn't appear anywhere in the first episode.
What the fuck are you on about?
>not reading the NanoDesu translation
ND is only through the first 6 volumes unfortunately. I vastly prefer their translation but it's a shame they won't be starting up again until March.
> Kyousuke learns to be honest with himself about his feelings and who he is as a person, and to have the conviction to throw his future away for the sake of being with Kirino.
I'm currently reading the first 2 chapters or around the first major plot point.
> It's in Volume 2.
That's way too late. It needed to happen in the early chapters of Volume 1.
That was more of a shout made on the spur of the moment, it could have worked better if he stayed silent made some internal monologue let the problem grew before resolving it in a more mature ways, that and if the author hadn't go all out with the drama that as stupid.
>It needed to happen in the early chapters of Volume 1.
It's there, but more subtly.
>That's way too late.
You're clearly not familiar with the pacing of the LNs.
>If you can I will admist defeat and delete this thread
But it's not possible to delete threads anymore unless you're a mod.
Do you want him to admit to wanting to fuck his sister in the first volume or something?
The series end was meh because of MUH MORALS, and the author wanted a full incest end. Anime fucks it up even harder by removing some details in the lightnovel. making it harder to imagine an incest end.
Welp, I hope the author makes a complete YnS clone novel this time. I feel he ain't gonna die peacefully if he wouldn't be able to.
The dream. The entire part where he's constantly thinking about her. Like I said, you won't get much in the in the anime cause inner dialogue wasn't in it. Then there's the fact that the affection for Kirino has a lot to do with Kyousuke's own development.
Same as in Oreimo. Do you want to add in how MC is kinda worried about the love interest too?
>You're clearly not familiar with the pacing of the LNs.
That would make them beyond shit. Even children's books follow this rule.
But in fact the setup is boy becomes aware of girls sexuality and stops being on purely aggressive terms with her.
>Do you want him to admit to wanting to fuck his sister in the first volume or something?
Please read: >>102234640
>The set up would have to be the fact that his love for his sister is starting to slip beyond that of the family kind.
>That's way too late. It needed to happen in the early chapters of Volume 1.
It is hinted that early though.
No. He planned to shout out his love from the beginning because that as his plan B to convince Ayase, was taking the fall for Kirino like he did with their Dad and becoming a scapegoat. You're completely ignoring the fact that the inner dialogue says there is truth to his statement. Who cares if it's spur of the moment? It's there for a reason. You can't get any more blatant than this.
Jesus Christ. I'm done. You don't want to like the series in the first place. You're completely denying the things we've been giving you even though they are exactly what you asked for. Nothing I can say will change your mind at this point, you've proven yourself to be completely stubborn and willfully ignorant.
>Reading Chapter 1 now.
>Sounds really close to the beginning of the first episode.
Please tell me that this is going to heavily deviate and you guys are not trolling the living shit out of me by saying that anime took the set up out.
There's a progression to it. He hates Kirino at the start so he won't admit overly positive feelings for her. Then there's the fact it's his own sister. It's unthinkable for the current him to consider that...kinda. He'll go through those things and learning about her as the series goes on. In volume 1, he doesn't know what type of person she became and it's the same for her. They barely know each other.
The hints you'll find in volume 1 are mostly related to him being attracted to her and the fact that he loves how passionate she is about her hobbies. Both of those will carry on throughout the series.
>You don't want to like the series in the first place.
That's not true. I wanted to like this show. If I didn't I wouldn't have bothered to watch all of it in the first place.
The first volume is probably the closest to the anime with the exception of a lot of Kyousuke's monologue. It starts to deviate more significantly by volume 2 and volume 3 even has a chapter or two that's completely different from the anime.
I made a thread that pretty much concludes with a reread of the light novels because my first contact with the source is rushed to say the least.
My rage towards the ending may have been quelled for now.
>The hints you'll find in volume 1 are mostly related to him being attracted to her and the fact that he loves how passionate she is about her hobbies. Both of those will carry on throughout the series.
This guy is spot on. Kyousuke doesn't really badmouth Kirino despite the "stares sharp as knives" and "harsh words like poison". There's also the occasional remark of Kyousuke about how cute Kirino is, although he still doesn't like how she is uncute most of the time.
>Also, aside from Manami, Kirino and Kyosuke didn't have any opposition.
This anon has a point. It would be nice if their relationship after the notorious public kiss was put to the test instead of being led on to blossom without the slightest gust of wind to question the strength of their bonds.
>without the slightest gust of wind to question the strength of their bonds.
I feel like the point of the ending is that their bonds are strong because of everything they've been through, namely the numerous times they tried to throw away their love for each other but failed. Their relationship has been put to the test many times throughout the series.
This doesn't mean that they won't have hardships in the future, though. You're talking like everything will be fine and dandy from now on when we don't know that. The ending is supposed to encapsulate that life counseling is needed to find a way to make their love work, since they can't give up on it.
The main events won't change much. This fact kinda forms an entry barrier for the people that start reading it. It's the changes made and a lot of what is omitted that is important and act as hints for the developments that come at the end of S1 ("I can't live without you"). S2 was the moment when they couldn't hide the incest by making small changes because they would have to change the events drastically. Not that they didn't try. Just look at the epilogue.
Kyousuke's thoughts are the most important thing in the series that was not included in the anime because they tell us about his progression. They're an important reference point for how the relationship has changed and will continue to change. There was no way in hell that normal Kyousuke would go after Kirino. The only one that can make that idiotic move is "Super Kyousuke" and his awakening is documented very well in his internal dialogue.
I read the first Chapter and it's as I suspected. The anime followed it perfectly and even made improvements, such as introducing Manami early on since she's their ONLY antagonist.
The closest thing I can find to a set up is this line:
>I’m not terribly angry about this either, since I don’t think of her as a sibling anymore.
>I don’t think of her as a sibling anymore.
I feel like I'm reaching with that one though. I feel that the author was going with them hating each other to loving one another. It's still hard to buy that even if he was opening up to her that the feelings that he would be having towards her would be sexual in nature rather than familial. It would be contrived...which is what I said in the first place.
YnS executes this way better than OreImo.
>"Ha… ha… where are you Kirino — do you think you can hide from your aniki!"
I fucking love Super Kyousuke.
In YnS Sora is immediately addicted to her brother's cock. If you need something to be so blatant to understand then it's not a matter of the text, it's you being fucking stupid.
>This doesn't mean that they won't have hardships in the future, though. You're talking like everything will be fine and dandy from now on when we don't know that. The ending is supposed to encapsulate that life counseling is needed to find a way to make their love work, since they can't give up on it.
No, I didn't say that there will be smooth sailing in the end. However, we all know that romance in anime has been saturated with "it ends with a kiss and they live happily ever after".
It would be nice if there's a series that actually follows the lives of characters beyond that decisive kiss.
You mean you want to know what happens next?
I'm sure we all do.
Kanji is for lover, hiragana is for younger sister. Sometimes Japan's odd character based writing is useful for something
>Sora is immediately addicted to her brother's cock.
Sora is not the protagonist, it's Haru. Haru's attraction to his sister is set up, but it isn't as obvious as Sora since Haru's the one that has to change at the end. Not Sora. Sora doesn't give a shit about what other people thinks. It's Haru. If Haru didn't give a shit it wouldn't have taken him so long to come to terms with it. He wouldn't have even bothered with the big breasted girl in the first place.
>I feel like the point of the ending is that their bonds are strong because of everything they've been through, namely the numerous times they tried to throw away their love for each other but failed.
That's nice for them, but true love needs to be tested by outside forces. The only outside force they had was Manami. That really wasn't enough. The final bosses should have been the parents. They have the most power to break up the couple. If their relationship could have withstood whatever the parents threw at them I would have been more convinced about their 'strong bonds.'
I don't get you. You talk about how within 20% (First of 5 episodes) of Sora's arc of YnS it was established that there was interest, and then turn around that volume 2 of 12 is too late for Oreimo?
20% against 16%
You're honestly just trying to find shit to not like it. And yes, the hints are in volume 1. There's no getting away form that unless you deny it.
But it was tested by America, Mikagami, Kuroneko, Ayase, Manami, etc.
It's kind of backwards in that it was tested before it was truly realized but the outcome's the same.
Besides, we don't even know what their parents deal is. Daisuke's behavior had been confusing enough.
Pretty much this >>102237178
I don't think they can go up against their parents yet since he just got out of high school, and Kirino is still underage. Maybe something different could have happened if censorship didn't get in the way but I think it's logical to not go against them now.
Sure. But I don't think we need to. The series was about them building to their relationship through trials that were testing their love. A story doesn't need to follow the protagonists to the end of their lives. And the main reason Fushimi had to make the ending subtle in the first place is because his publisher wouldn't allow him to write incest blatantly (which he did anyway, to an extent).
It was tested by outside forces. Many times.
>YnS executes this way better than OreImo.
YnS was porn. I don't understand why people hold the adaptation up to such a fucking standard of incest writing because they actually fuck at the end. I wouldn't even be surprised if most people on /a/ skipped all the omnibus bullshit and went straight for the Sora episodes at the end to fap to them. That's what I did. Because it was hot. Koi Kaze is a better incest story, but people don't care about it because it's not porn.
And holy fuck, all this bullshit OP is trying to pull.
>In the first episode of YnS there was a scene where Haru fantasized about making out with Sora. This is the set up that let's the audience know that "Hey! This kid is sexually attracted to his twin sister."
Nigga, are you implying that you didn't bother with YnS BECAUSE you already knew it was based on an incest VN? You fucking didn't need the show to tell you there would be sister-fisting and the show didn't need to hide it at all.
Did you completely miss the part where literally all of the main side characters, to Manami, to Ayase, to Kuroneko, to Kanako, are all trying to restore a normal sibling relationship to them? They want to break the two of them up and have them throw away their love but both of them stick to their guns even in the face of losing their friends.
Oh that's right, you did miss it, because you didn't read the LNs but still think you have the right to comment on anything.
The problem is that, in the book, the incident that sets Kyosuke on his journey happens really fast when he finds the DVD. When he finds the DVD it leads him to finally getting to talk to his sister. This means that it changes the nature of their relationship which started off a bit cold.
In YnS, up until Haru fantasizes about his sister we are still being introduced to everyone and the world. This is before the story has really started. In fact so much is set up in the beginning episode. Even Haru losing his phone in the beginning that got him in trouble with Sora and later exposed his relationship with her. One could claim that his forgetfulness is his character flaw, but it's something that's set up in the beginning rather than pulled out only when it was convenient for the author making it seem contrived.
Possible. But it can be interpreted without the notion of romance.
That faggot even gave Kyousuke an entire shelf filled with lewd figures. Not threatening enough.
Not threatening enough. The bitch even offed herself (figuratively) when she realized that she can't just steal Kyousuke from Kirino because she fucking loves Kirino that much. She basically lost in her own test of character. >Ayase
Fucking irrelevant. She only liked Kyousuke because of her personal interests in Kirino.
YnS suffer from as much adaptation decay as Oreimo, if not more. Both anime adaptations are but a shell of their original works
>I don't think they can go up against their parents yet since he just got out of high school, and Kirino is still underage.
>Kirino is still underage
Yes, exactly. Kirino is still under their care and is still a minor. They could ship her out to another school and kick Kyosuke out of the house and cut him off completely.
Angel Sanctuary is, kinda, a better example of how this can be done.
Sorry I read that wrong.
Their parents have more power than them which would have made them a much bigger mountain to climb. Could the two lovers defy their parents and still stay together? That would have been the, ultimate, test of their love.
I'm not surprised if the father supports the incest.
>"Well, as long as my Kirino doesn't fall to the hands of someone I don't trust."
>Haru fantasized about making out with Sora
>This is the set up that let's the audience know that "Hey! This kid is sexually attracted to his twin sister."
I don't know. To me, that's a lot more contrived. Where did those urges come from? In the anime, if I remember correctly, there was a flashback where shota Haru gave his little sister a deep kiss because... He was in love with her? I guess?
I haven't played the VN, so maybe YnS is an even worse adaptation than Oreimo and the VN actually gives more reasoning and development to the romance.
It would also be extremely foolish for them to dive into that sort of thing, and avoiding that kind of foolishness is kind of what Kirino's plan and the following life counseling is about.
Sure it might've been the ultimate test, but Kirino's love surviving several years and Kyousuke's dedication shown in the final volumes is convincing enough to me at least.
>Notices Kirino's stealing pictures of Kyousuke from the family album
>Tells Kyousuke he's leaving Kirino to him
>Gets upset when anyone but Kirino gives him gifts
>Gives Kyousuke New Years money for the first time in years on the New Years following his proposal to Kirino
>maybe YnS is an even worse adaptation than Oreimo and the VN actually gives more reasoning and development to the romance
Bingo. That flashback kiss never happens in the VN, and Haru's feelings for Sora only blossom when the threat of being separated by their family comes up
Because of the omnibus format the staff decided on, many developments had to be shortened or outright cut. That flashback kiss was something they added to hasten the romance between the twins
>Koi Kaze is a better incest story, but people don't care about it because it's not porn.
I watched that as well, but the set up is slightly different. In Koi Kaze it's more of a boy meets girl set up such as ToraDora. Even then in Koi Kaze it's pretty evident that the both of them are attracted to each other right off the bat. The monkey wrench is that they are both related
In YnS the two siblings already had their reunion off screen as opposed to in Koi Kaze. Yet, we see that Haru is trying to take care of his impossible sister who we see is attracted to him. Yet, we also see that he's attracted to her. Now that we know this we, as the audience, are interested in how he is going to handle this. Rather he spends most of it running away from his feelings which is why YnS omnibus format ends up working quite well for the story.
In Sora's final arc he quits the running and just accepts his feelings for her.
Had this been OreImo, they would have never showed Haru fantasizing about Sora and we would just have to buy his sudden feelings of sexual attraction to his sister that would have came out of nowhere. It would have been contrived just as in OreImo.
>Nigga, are you implying that you didn't bother with YnS BECAUSE you already knew it was based on an incest VN?
lolwat? I have no idea wtf you are referring to here.
But admit it, it was a decently made standalone show.
Maybe you should go watch Koi Kaze instead.
Tsundad is the best.
Kyousuke's attraction to Kirino is scattered throughout the series as you've been told multiple times in this thread. It's done similarly through Kyousuke's monologue and it's hilarious how you're praising YnS for doing the exact same thing Oreimo does.
Fuck no. The manga was better than that piece of shit
Call it shit taste, but I think the story was handled decently enough.
>I don't know. To me, that's a lot more contrived.
That's because you don't have an understanding of what I mean...and that's ok. Learning something new is ok.
>Where did those urges come from? In the anime, if I remember correctly, there was a flashback where shota Haru gave his little sister a deep kiss because... He was in love with her?
Yes, you answered your own question. It's easier to believe that he's liked her since he was a kid BECAUSE he fantasized about kissing her in the BEGINNING. It would have been harder to buy it had it not happen at all. It would have just looked convenient.
>Bingo. That flashback kiss never happens in the VN, and Haru's feelings for Sora only blossom when the threat of being separated by their family comes up
That means that the show improved the story presented in the VN.
The reason for that is that YnS is an eroge. It's told in a branching format and the anime modified that. Everything is faster due to the limit not to mention the fact that it's an eroge vs an LN series.
So yeah, it's still 20% vs 16%.
And so we're back to you needing something as explicit as a kiss for something to not be "contrived"?
It's not enough that Kyousuke praises Kirino's appearance and accomplishments from the very start and gradually falls in love with her over the course of the series? Why do you expect the circumstances to be similar when Kirino and Kyousuke hadn't spoken in three years? Why couldn't he have fallen in love with her over the two year duration of the series?
A romance where you're shown the development of the protagonists feelings is much less 'contrived' then one where you're shown from the start "look he's actually in love with her."
>Kyousuke's attraction to Kirino is scattered throughout the series as you've been told multiple times in this thread.
But Kyosuke's attraction to Kirino has to be in the BEGINNING onot the middle otherwise it's not believable as I've said multiple times in this thread.
Your expectations are retarded and you seem to be dead set on the story and conclusion being shoved in your face on the first page.
It's like the idiots that expected a typical full dere imouto and got personally offended when they didn't get that.
Only if you want them to get to the fucking as quickly as possible. The VN has proper relationship development
Careful, he's an expert. He just finished the first chapter.
And why the fuck would you believe that a shota would be deeply french kissing his imouto in the first place? Because it was convenient for the incest.
>The reason for that is that YnS is an eroge.
No, the reason for that is that YnS had better writers on it.
>Everything is faster due to the limit not to mention the fact that it's an eroge vs an LN series.
This isn't true. All good stories set up shit in the beginning and not wait until the end to bring it up. As mentioned in the posts about Koi Kaze. You know from the getgo that the both of them are attracted to each other and that they are siblings. You didn't have to wait 15 volumes and 26 episodes to figure that out.
Please don't be dumb.
>All good stories set up shit in the beginning and not wait until the end to bring it up.
You're right, which is why Oreimo is a good story.
The YnS anime was rushed.
And it's still 20% vs 16%. Fucking numbers, how do they work.
>implying people defending OreImo's awful story know anything about good storytelling
I knew that going in, but thought I'd try anyway.
This is getting silly. You're basically saying a romance must spoonfeed you every character's feelings from the get go and they should remain relatively static until the payoff, where the only thing that changes is the protagonist's willingness to reveal his feelings.
That's fucking contrived. Oreimo carrying you through Kyousuke falling in love is not.
They have nothing to do with numbers in the way you are talking about.
They do have everything to do with pages counts though.
I'm completely serious. It's one of the worst excuses for some sex scenes that I've seen. It's mind-boggling that you think it's good writing.
If I wrote a character that hated people for no reason, then that would be bad. But if I gave that character a flashback to show that he punched a dude in the face just for existing then that would be good?
20% would land us at mid volume 3? That would be around the time Kyousuke's trying to make out the figure of his sister through the bath's glass screen and basically getting turned on? The story's are different lengths. Why don't you just go full retard and bitch about the fact that Kyousuke wasn't proposing to Kirino by the time episode 5 hit?
>implying anyone shitting on a series while knowing nothing about it knows anything about argumentative discussion
Ahahaha. You're grasping at straws now, I see. It took a couple hours, but I knew it would come to this. I've argued with people like you before, it always ends up the same. You don't want to clash your opinion with others to stress test it and find a good perspective, you want other people to validate your opinions. I was catching onto this when you deliberately seemed to ignore most of the points and arguments being handed to you earlier in the thread. In the end you're so dead set on keeping your hatred that you'll fall back on "It's shit, your argument is invalid" and curl back up into close-mindedness. I'm glad I've only been lurking since I realized what kind of poster you are.
>they should remain relatively static until the payoff
Who said that? I didn't. In between that time the story has to happen.
That being said letting your audience in on the story is not 'spoonfeeding.' Example, what if in Kill La Kill we never knew why Ryuko wanted revenge? We just knew that she wanted revenge. Knowing WHY she wants revenge is pivotal to the plot and must be stated to the audience otherwise why would we give a shit?
Or what if in Koi Kaze we never knew that the protagonist's were attracted to each other in the first place? Them being attracted to each other is important otherwise we would just think that they are becoming a closer family.
That being said OreImo is far from being subtle so why be subtle about this? It's a silly conclusion to draw.
But he read chapter 1 of volume 1. Don't bother him.
I met someone once that watched 30 episodes of Bleach and thought he had the authority and knowledge to make a judgement about the entire medium. This anon is even better than that.
You just get sillier every post.
>>102238978 pretty much nailed it. You're just looking to validate your own opinion about something you know jack shit about.
The fun part will come if he finally reads it. It'll be him trying to justify the hints as being normal. Just like the otherfags did before the last novel was released.
> But if I gave that character a flashback to show that he punched a dude in the face just for existing then that would be good?
In the case of YnS, he loved Sora before she may have realized that she loved him. He suppressed his feelings. When he saw her masturbating while calling out his name it was one of the last things to send him over the age before realizing that this relationship with Nao was just a farce and a way to distract him from the sexual feelings he had towards his sister.
Putting it in that way I don't see how you having such a hard time accepting the flashback or feel that it doesn't make sense. OreImo is, supposed, to be about a boy who comes to fall in love with his sister. YnS is about a boy who comes to accept his sexual attraction towards his sister.
What I'm arguing is that the story should have hinted, earlier, that Kyosuke was sexually attracted to Kirino in some way. It would have been easier to buy that he fell in love with her later.
I guess you should read the LNs then, huh?
>the story should have hinted, earlier, that Kyosuke was sexually attracted to Kirino in some way
And it did. I'm not even going to bother saying anything beyond this because it's already been said. You're just denying the very thing that's been spoonfed to you this entire thread.
No it has to be earlier than that.
Kyosuke can find her attractive or sexy without falling in love with her. Such as, checking her out.
Someone stated that he didn't realize that she was with some models and found her attractive even though he didn't know who she was. Had that been at the beginning then we would have been like, 'Oh ok, this dude thinks his sister his hot...even though he still hates her guts.'
Then we would be like..."Ok...he thinks she's hot, but he hates her...how is this going to play out?"
You clearly haven't read a single post in this thread, so let me summarize:
1. He is attracted to Kirino early in the series.
2. Kyousuke falls in love with Kirino over the course of the series. It's not as simple as "Holy shit I want to fuck my sister but I don't want to admit it"
I'm honestly interested to see how long he'll keep this up.
The scenario your referring to is when Kyousuke sees Kirino with some models and only bothers commenting on his sister's attractiveness.
I don't have to read past Chapter 1 to know that his attraction to her wasn't properly set up. The reason I mentioned Chapter 1 is that the initial set up already happened: These two siblings are more like enemies, living in the same house. Then, something happens that brings them closer together.
All that happened in chapter 1 already. Nowhere did Kyosuke allude that he, personally, saw her as being attractive.
To me it looks like they are on their way to becoming better siblings rather actual lovers.
worst girl won, all the girls with superior character designs (ayase, neko, kanako) treated as secondary, wasted potential over 9000. nothing more needs to be said as there are far more interesting anime to discuss
>No it has to be earlier than that.
Well I'm done. You're just full of shit.
Wow, you haven't even read the first volume and you've already decided.
>I feel that the author is just appealing to the lowest common denominator at this point
Welcome to light novels?
This shit is for the bottom feeders. People talk shit about Naruto, but not even it drops down to the depths these things go.
Good work Anon. You just realized what I realized hours ago.
I'm also interested to see how long you guys will keep humoring him. I think we've said all that can be said. Pointing to things won't make blind people see.
Good for Kyousuke for getting Kirino. More Ayase for me.
But you have to share Ayase with everyone else.
>By the way, today Kirino was wearing a black and white T-shirt, with something like a mix between black boxers and a skirt. I don’t really know but, Ces- whatever was the brand. If someone were to say she was a fashion model, everyone would believe it.
>…Damn, how cute you are.
This goes on throughout the novel and it's setting up without being obvious about the fact that he's attracted to her. It can't be obvious because the narrator will deny it. He has to. It's his sister. Anyway, congrats on keeping people arguing with you when you don't know shit about the series and haven't even read the first chapter.
NO. IT. WAS. NOT.
This is what I've been arguing the ENTIRE time. Someone doing nice shit for you doesn't = you fall in love with them. It doesn't, especially if she's your sister that you have grown up with all of your life. It could just be you becoming closer as family. You have to be attracted to her as a sexual being that you would like to put your penis into.
Hmmm. I'm going to post some Kirino, if you guys don't mind.
Just stop afterwards though. Save yourself the embarrassment.
>Pointing to things won't make blind people see.
Even if he did, you know it wouldn't change his mind. Stop encouraging him.
There, the spoon has picked up the babyfood, elevated and then been inserted into his mouth. All he has to do is swallow and not spit it in your face. But you know what he's going to do. You should be done with him by now.
Oh God, yes! We did it. We made him upset. This couldn't have worked out better.
This may sound stupid, but when I heard of my little sister can't be this cute, I though it was gonna be about a girl who's like perfect, but a bitch at home. While that's pretty much the series I never felt that the brother had any feeling towards the little sister and just wanted to help her...i'm too naive
>>…Damn, how cute you are.
That would have been acceptable had it been BEFORE he found the DVD.
>Anything past chapter 1 ISN'T ENOUGH
>Here's chapter 1 stuff
>Anything past finding the DVD ISN'T ENOUGH
This is just comedic at this point. You're just moving goalposts to fit your retarded argument.
He started by keeping the limit at volume 2. Then volume 1. We go with chapter 1 and he switches to the DVD. Anyone want to quote the first few lines of the novels just to end it here?
>show me incest hints
>hints are delivered
>no, where is that from
>source is delivered
>no, that's not a big enough hint
>bigger hints are delivered
>no, it has to be earlier
>hints are delivered within the first few pages
>NO, IT HAS TO BE WITHIN THE FIRST FEW SENTENCES
Oh my God, this is amazing. Holy shit. I've been on 4chan for 5+ years and I rarely see such landslide victories on my side. This is beyond satisfying. Good work everyone. Kirino would be proud.
>This may sound stupid
...I never felt that the brother had any feeling towards the little sister and just wanted to help her...i'm too naive
It's not a stupid statement. It's the problem with the series overall. It's never shown that he has any sort of attraction. People here claim that it's in the books narration, but it shows up a bit late.
I'll screw him over even worse.
Ore no Imōto ga Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga Nai
Yes! Post Oreimo girls in celebration. I don't even care if it's Manami. I don't want this feeling to ever go away. This is better than June 6th last year.
Nah, nothing can beat that.
Plugging your ears does wonders for your argument.
I would call my sisters cute and I definitely would not fuck them.
It just keeps getting better.
You remind me of these folks >>102240410
That was my first post in this thread. I am just saying that a lot of people consider their sisters cute. I definitely do.
What the fuck is wrong with you and why did your mother not abort your autistic ass?
That line happens around the time when Kirino comes back to the entrance hall looking for the DVD after dropping it. Kyousuke doesn't even know the DVD is hers yet.
Are you serious? If there's not full vaginal penetration on the cover then how am I supposed to know he's attracted to her?
You guys are typing and not actually reading my posts. I've already stated multiple times as to why his attraction to her has to be way earlier on. In fact, I spelled it out pretty clearly on multiple occasions. I don't know if its because you are too busy typing your own posts to read them or not, but I have stated it.
Just to clarify AGAIN:
The incident that brings Kyosuke and Kirino together is the lost DVD. That means to get here already we are past character introductions and establishing the character's world. We know that he, Kyosuke, finds his perfect sister impossible to deal with and that she's not too fond of him. We also know that he doesn't not see her as a sister.
I already mentioned that this could have been a set up right here, but this can, easily, be attributed to their estranged relationship rather than he finds her sexually attractive. A simple "I find her kind of cute, but she's an asshole" before he finds the lost DVD would have been suffice. Doing that would set the tone of the book immediately and set up the audience to expect his attraction, but dislike of her attitude to be addressed as the story progresses.
I feel that the author is treating this as some normal boy meets girl kind of story, but it's not. In real life no one just wants to sleep with their sister. On the flipside I can totally believe Kirino's attraction to Kyosuke as it's hinted pretty early on (the fact that her games are that of little sisters having sex with older brothers). Though, his? Not so much.
>tfw no part 3
Keep going. I have enough Kirino images to do this into the wee hours of the morning.
Depressing Oreimo doujins are, well, really depressing. 200 day war of me and my sister put me in a slump when I read it.
Whether he knows it's hers or not is beside the point. He did not think to himself:
"Whomever DVD this belongs to is the family member I fall in love with."
The lost DVD already set the story in motion.
>I have enough Kirino images to do this into the wee hours of the morning.
Umm...be my guest?
Just so you know the only reason I'm still replying is because I find your retarded irrational backpedaling absolutely hilarious.
This is hilarious. I've seen plenty of retards but you're pretty special.
I like how now he's arguing based on specific pages.
Why are they so perfect together?
Perfect sibling compatibility, son
Speaking of early volume 1.
>However, I have no intention of proudly boasting that she's my sister. Sure, the guys will envy me. I might even understand why, but from personal experience, it’s just not like that.
>Sure, the guys will envy me. I might even understand why
Is that the earliest we have that can be taken as a hint?
Maybe, but it's worth noting how much Kyousuke lies to his readers.
Regardless of specifically how early they're presented, they are there, and they're pretty blunt. I don't want to draw our little Anon back into this discussion though, so I don't think it's that important in the current context.
The title comes before.
What an unbelievably cute image.
>I've seen plenty of retards
Yeah, they are the ones defending this awful story.
>retarded irrational backpedaling absolutely hilarious.
I didn't backpedal though. In fact I first explained it here >>102237459
That was HOURS ago and before this anon's post: >>102240039
>>102237459 explained why >>102240039 was incorrect and then everyone claimed I 'backpedaled' or 'moved goalposts' when I have been saying the same thing over and over again when >>102240186 was just a repeat of >>102237459.
I know that some of you DON'T READ so I assume that's what happened. Then again, I am conversing with a bunch of OreImo defenders so go figure.
There hasn't been a new 2ch comic in a while now. This worries me
That's true. It's kinda hard to keep track of them and how Kyousuke says them. Sometimes overly tsun, sometimes lets them out, sometimes it's comments with a whole lot of denial. I don't think he lied that much if at all.
This is incredible. I'm almost in disbelief.
When you read that did you think that this was going to be a story about a guy who was going to fall in love with his sisters?
Like, out of curiosity?
>using the YnS anime as a good example
read the VN and then we'll talk
>I don't think he lied that much if at all.
Maybe you just weren't picking up on it as much as I was. He lies A LOT. Even admits to it later on.
Every time Kirino blushes, he's also very dense.
>maybe because of the cold/rain/her anger, Kirino's face reddened.
It's quite subtle on Fushimi's part as he tries to imply what he means without saying it. Maybe lie isn't the right word, but he's definitely dishonest. Pic related happens way, way more than once.
>read the VN and then we'll talk
I was really talking about the anime as a standalone.
From what people said here it seems as if the anime was an improvement on it.
That you guys can't read?
I'm not in disbelief at all.
I read the title first and thought it would be then I got greeted with that. The rest of the volume somewhat confirmed my beliefs and that confirmation continued to be strengthened as I kept reading.
I think he was denying a lot of it. Not in the sense that he wanted to lie but that he, himself, didn't believe it or didn't want to believe it. His denseness is the same way, I think. It's absolutely unbelievable that Kirino, his sister, would like him. Manami is Manami, and I don't think he was ever dense with Kuroneko. Kuroneko was just toying with him by comparing herself to Kirino.
I read that he was proud to have her as a sister, but not that he wanted to sex with her.
Yeah, he was dishonest in his narration mainly because it's like he's talking to himself, or trying to convince readers that he totally doesn't love his sister. Mikagami even breaks it to him by saying that he "isn't honest with himself at all". He's in denial, and this attitude gets development as the series goes on.
I think that's insane though. This is like line 3 or 4 of the series. Him saying "I want to fuck my sister" then is just ridiculous. You weren't ever going to get that as clear then or even within the first couple of volumes. You'll have hints and questionable moments but that is just an extremely unreasonable expectation that you have there.
Ok this made me laugh.
I'm glad, I thought it was too subtle.
All of his posts in this thread have been extremely unreasonable expectations, mainly him actively changing how extreme they are so that he can continue to deny that there are hints.
This thread was enjoyable in more ways than one. Thanks OP and thanks to the Oreimobros who contributed, even if it was fruitless.