I don't understand some things about this show.
What were Sanetoshi's motives behind supporting Kanba's terrorism, and why was he selling the medicine to keep Himari alive?
What was the point of Mario's character at all, and why did Momoka's soul split into two penguin hats in the first place?
> I don't understand some things about this show.
You and everyone else
Don't think. Feel.
i always thought sanetoshi supported kanba cause both sanetoshi and kanba's/kenzan's operation wanted to end society, mario was to give natsume a little more motive i assume, momoka's thing was just cause ikuhara could, probably, and the selling medicine was probably sanetoshi being dick
I guess I just don't really understand what Sanetoshi IS at all. I know he's trying to kill people and destroy society, but I don't know why. I feel like he probably represents something, but I don't have a clue what it could be.
>What were Sanetoshi's motives behind supporting Kanba's terrorism, and why was he selling the medicine to keep Himari alive?
His ongoing feud with Momoka.
>What was the point of Mario's character at all, and why did Momoka's soul split into two penguin hats in the first place?
Like the other anon says, motivation for Masako. As for the second question, no idea.
I know they're rather unsatisfactory answers. Call them plotholes if you want, but these things don't matter to the overall story, so you don't have to dwell on them.
I kinda hope Momoka shows up in Lesbian Bear Storm though. Do it, Ikuni.
WELCOME TO ROCK N ROLL NIIIIGHT
my best bet is that ikuhara wanted him to be a stark contrast to momoka, i.e momoka was all that was good in the world, saving people and wanting world peace, and sanetoshi represented the evil and hatred of mankind and the essential instinct of human nature to destroy.
Sanetoshi was probably based on the terrorists from Aum Shinrikyo.
Pay particular attention to the sarin gas attacks.
I think you make things overly complicated by searching for logical motives of an evil spirit. Why do people shitpost on /a/? What's their motivation?
Plus, this whole thing is about fate, and some things happen because they have to happen. It's supernatural. Don't look for too much human reason in it.
Sanetoshi is introduced in a way that made me feel like he was more of a neutral overseer, so when it was revealed that he's actively working against Momoka and is generally "evil" I was confused about his actions earlier that seem to begin the plot in the first place.
Holy fuck. Did any of you fags even pay attention to the goddamn show?! I've watched long long time ago so i'm not 100% sure of what i'm going to say, but here's the thing.
Sanetoshi wanted Kanba to work for the terrorist group, thats why he was using the medicine as an excuse to make him work to pay for it.
Sanetoshi and his terrorist group, WHICH HE WAS THE (previous) LEADER OF, wanted to blow up stuff to alarm society to the situation of the child broiler. It was the wrong way to do it, but SANETOSHI IS NOT EVIL, HE JUST TRIED TO MAKE GOOD IN A DIFFERENT WAY. His way of thinking is flawed, but he IS NOT EVIL.
Momoka's soul, as well as Sanetoshi's, were kept alive in the Destination of Fate, which is where they go after the SEIZON SENRYOKU, and where the huge library is. Momoka's connection to the real world passes by the 2 penguin hats, which reached characters affected by the curse of terrorism, and used them to fight Sanetoshi.
Himari, (and mario, i think), were affected by the terrorism curse. The terrorism was part of Shouma's family, but justice is only justice if the punishment is not fair. There are around 10 minutes in the anime to explain this thing about punishment, one time when Himari collapses and Shouma tells a story to Ringo. So Himari and Mario were having their life force / destiny / fate / however you want to call it, drained, and the cures they found were the penguin hat, sharing kanba's life force and the medicine. But all of those solutions were temporary.
He doesn't want to destroy society or kill people, he wants to REBUILD society and CHANGE people's mentality.
Pic related, explains some of the characters' fate and how it was manipulated
Keep questions coming and correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure there's low to none ammount of randomness in this anime
I hope you watched Utena first. Nothing will make sense otherwise.
>Sanetoshi and his terrorist group, WHICH HE WAS THE (previous) LEADER OF, wanted to blow up stuff to alarm society to the situation of the child broiler.
Okay, this makes a lot of sense. I don't know how I missed that.
Do you know why Sanetoshi drops an apple to Himari in episode 9? He's also on an apple in the second OP, even though he doesn't seem directly connected to the apple swapping as that chart suggests.
Yes I did, and I did enjoy some of the symbolic carry-over with coffins and seeking something eternal.
pic relevant for this thread
I'll never understand how to read or interpret this chart.
What's the difference between the normal penguin, the light/dark penguin, and the emperor penguin? They all get thrown around pretty often.
Is there a higher res or a vector file?
what about the ending and why does the chart says that they are together at the end. When they are not and I cried a lot?
>I don't understand some things about this show.
You already understand more than most people.
Yea I'm thinking also that the show is very messy. Moreso then Utena.
I also want to know why it ended that way.
I think it has a lot to do with Utena being more formulaic and significantly longer than Penguindrum, making it easier to break down and analyze, not to mention that Ikuhara squandered the first several episodes of Penguindrum on stalker hijinks that don't have very much significance to the plot.
I don't know, but by watching that scene right now, i think i get it. When he throws the apple, you see it fall on the child broiler, in the scene when Shouma shares the fruit of fate with Himari. So Sanetoshi might have been just reminding her of that apple (she says afterwards "right, i had someone like that").
At least to me, the normal penguin looks like the ones the Takakura family got, so i'd associate them. The emperor penguin looks a lot like Esmeralda, Masako's penguin. I don't know if that's the relation actually. The black and white remind me of the Kiga group, the terrorists. I think if you rewatch it, the penguin icons will actually have a relation like that.
If there is, i don't have it.
The chart shows they are in the same world at the end, not together. The ending was pretty much bittersweet, supposedly Kanba and Shouma were disappear for real, as their punishment for what they've done, and because Shouma offered himself as a sacrifice instead of Ringo when she casted the spell of changing fate. They got rewarded, though, because of their good job protecting their beloved ones, and the reward was to stay alive, but they were reborn younger, and with no connections to himari and ringo.
I actually liked the stalker hijinks, they show us the obcession Ringo has with the diary and with being Momoka.
I'll try to drop some light on it on my next post, gimme a sec
Pic related, it shows some stuff on why the (95) appears so often. I don't know how much of the image is correct though, i never read much of it.
Light/Dark is obviously the symbol for the Kiga terrorist group. Emperor probably represents Momoka. Not really sure about the normal one, it shows up a lot for no real reason.
Night on the Galactic Railroad.
Umm whats the message of Pinguindrum anyways? That love can change faith if your willing to go through sacrifices?
People are born into many different circumstances, some poorer than others, but if people more fortunate reach out to those who aren't the future can be improved for both of you.
Also, your family are those people who will love you no matter what you do.
Finally, it's a commentary on Japanese society, specifically over abandoned or unloved children.
That's what I got, at least. Some of the details are still wonky, which is why I made this thread.
im having an existential crisis at this question there is too much symbolism in this series for me to process, i always took it to mean that bearing through suffering will eventually lead to greater things, i guess...
Why do people always try to find a "message"? It's just a story. Shit happens.
Ah. It's much better to think of fate has consequences/situations you can't change yourself because of your situation than from a chosen paths perspective. The fact that some people more fortunate if they are willing can influence your life in a better direction that you couldn't reach alone.
And that family will always be linked no matter what.
Yes that makes sense.
Abandoned children would then be people stuck by 'faith with no way of exit by their efforts alone.
I liked the stalker stuff, too, it's a good way to introduce the characters and their problems, but Iku spent way too much time on it in my opinion.
I'd say you were right on spot. There is no pre-defined fate or destiny, you make your own, though to change things from the way they've been, you need to fight and sacrifice important things.
I'll read the chart from left to right. Kanba, Shouma and Himari were in the child broiler, and whoever gets in there is a lowlife who will never ammount to anything. So, being in the child broiler is bad, and if you get there your life will be bad. It's the place abandoned kids go, for example. Society doesnt care about them, and that's why Sanetoshi wants to change the society.
Suddently, an apple shows up in Kanba's cage. The apple simbolizes keeping on living, having a destiny, having an opportunity. It was HIS fate, but he decides to share half of it with Shouma. Shouma then shares half of it with another person who was in the child broiler, Himari. Then, (second column), TERRORISM kicks in. This TERRORISM is Shouma's curse, because Shouma deserves being punished for being in terrorist family. And punishment is only true punishment if it is not fair (read: punish someone close to him who is innocent, the target couldn't be Kanba as he wasn't innocent too and needed punishment too, so the target was Himari). This curse slowly kills your fate. When you run out of fate, which is also your life force / HP, you die. This was what happened in episode 1, but then Kanba shared half of his fate with Himari. The curse kicks in again, Himari collapses again and the temporary solution now was Kiga group's / Sanetoshi's medicine. Since Sanetoshi came from the Destination of Fate, he had special powers that enabled him to craft these medicines, which contained small portions of fate, necessary to keep Himari alive. The medicine dies, Himari collapses again, the apple gets returned to the brothers, which give it whole to Himari, after accepting their punishment (read: stop existing). Cont next post
do you think we're gonna get an expansion on the ending in penguinbear, or will it be a completely different storyline?
Funny how it's a bit the contrairy of Utena. Utena was all about personal revolution and that you can't changes others lives but can inspire them to do so by themselves.
Also Nanami best girl
Didn't Penguinbear turn into Yuri Kuma Arashi or are those two different things?
Then the apple would symbolize good fortune. Wow the show makes a lot of sense now ahah.
So guys, would you say it had a happy ending? I'm thinking more bittersweet.
ahhh i didnt see the news on yuri kuma arashi, just checked the penguinbear project site too, looks like they're the same thing. disappointed though, would have liked a follow up to penguindrum.
definitely bittersweet, also were shouma and kanba alive at the end? cause they could still see the penguins, and I would have thought that as normal humans they couldn;t.
It was sad has fuck. I swear I was crying like a whale.
They were reborn, were they not?
I would have thought so too, but I'm still thinking about why they were still shown with the penguins if the penguins were supernatural?
They gave their apple to their sister. So I guess its like they refused the opportunity to escape the child broiler. So they are invisible now.
Fitting for a landwhale.
I'm pretty sure they were dead, since it was a reference to Night on the Galactic Road.
You too? I was literally drowning in tears.
Both show you a lot of bad things happening when people can't accept that good things don't last forever.
Maybe not the central theme in either, but at least there's some bridge.
Oh said like that I think it was very present in both shows.
makes sense, have yet to read Night on the Galactic Railroad so I shall be doing so soon.
Every time I rewatch the ending scene with that final piano piece in the background and the letter and the scar and the burn i just lose it, every fuckin time.
Ikuhara throw away his plans for MPD on the first half and improvise on the second half, except for the soulmate bullshit
Ringo changes fate, Himari is no longer connected to them, so she's not affected by the curse anymore. Ringo and Himari survive, Himari has full apple / fate now, and isn't affected by the curse. Kanba and Shouma get rewarded (this may or not be wrong) and get revived, younger, on the real world.
I guess. I figured they were "erased" from existence as Kanba and Shouma.
Well, almost erased anyway.
My bug problem with this show is the curse thing. It reinforce the Japanese crap of blaming the kids for their parents's sins.
I though he was just working agains't fate. He refused the fact that some people were stuck in situations they couldn't get out by themselves and that people where just ignoring them.
But he himself was alone and couldn't change his own situation until the brother showed up.
A morally neutral Sanetoshi trolling humans because it's fun would be better than emo Sanetoshi and family matters. At that point, it seemed the moral would be shit happens and it can't be helped
Ummm. In a way yes. Its baggage you aren't responsible for but fall on your shoulders anyways. It is faith. I think the show stands against that but still can help but acknowledge it.
I think criticizing that attitude was exactly the point.
I can't wait for Yuri Bear Storm to air so I can participate in the specula threads.
Criticizing would be that Himari's curse was unrelated to the terrorist crap and Shouma realizing he shouldn't hate himself for what his parents did. What actually happen is Shouma's self-loathing was right, he was responsable of Himari's curse for having terrorist parents and he self-sacrificed for paying for his curse (in case anyone didn't get it, Shouma said so before dying)
>What were Sanetoshi's motives behind supporting Kanba's terrorism
Nigger he was the reason Kanba turned terrorist, were you even paying attention? Sanetoshi was the one who wanted to kill lots of people and THEN Kanba wanted to as well.
The world was a better place when the terrorist scum and the son of terrorist scum that wasn't a terrorist and didn't do anything wrong were retconned from existence.
Which is very unjust. I think the show showcase this point. It is a burden he couldn't escape.
because of the way society works and sees him.
It's against that sort of thinking the same way a play showing a woman being a victim of her circumstances can be a feminist statement.
I think the point of the show was to show that life is unfair and punishments dealt out by fate are unjust, and all you can really do in such an unkind reality is to stick by the ones you love
All those rape doujinshi Ive read.
Yuri Bear PV when?
Noit only the society but some kind of invisible force, the god's hand if you want. The point is this character, Shouma, wasn't allowed to move on or even live, his existence was really a mistake, arguably he'd fuck Ringo's life for his curse if he get too close and he got retconned for it. What kind of message is that for the children from murders, killers, yakuzas, etc? Even if they try to be good persons, they're still fucked up? Japan just can't into individualism
The point of the first half was life is unfair. The point of the second half is love can make time loops. Himari should die for real, sometimes you can't get what you want. Kanba never really cared about his own safety, his objective was to safe Himari and he won.
>Japan just can't into individualism
So let's complain about a show which drags this issue out from under the bed where everyone has tried to forget about it and points out how needs to be dealt with, because it's been stinking the place up something fierce.
Heh, I hate predetermined fate so I hope it isn't the case.
I prefer to think that they were victims of circumstances which kinda act like fath. His parents being terrorists influenced his actions and the actions of others around him acting like an uncontrollable force.
I prefer the concept of things you can't change = fate instead of real fate.
I think the problem was that Shouma was too passive. His only real flaw is his self-loathing and the show kinda admit he was right, he really had the blame for Himari's disease and he should live insolated. Aristotle thought a tragedy should be fueled by a tragic mistake, the MC is blind for his pride or something that he's causing his own fall. Aristotle recommended this because a protagonist facing a tragic fate without in some way searching his own destruction was too much. It goes into unnecesary cruelty, just plain sadism
People who get confused by the whole terrorist aspect should read about the Sarin attacks by the religious sect Aum Shinrikyo.
The whole anime is practically Ikuhara's rendition of the incident, the number 95 for example since the attackt happened in 1995 in a metro station in tokyo.
Also, anons can confirm that one of the missing perpetrators gave himself around the end of the series? I read it somewhere but cant find where.