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What is the most YAMATO DAMASHII manga / anime ?
And which one is the least, as in "criticize openly Japan" ?

Joshiraku and Zipang respectively for me.
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Jesus Christ Zipang was so shit.
Goddamn I hate it so much.
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>>102198819
why did you hate it?
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>>102199124

Almost all of the characters behave in such unrealistic, stupid ways it made me cringe at every decision they made.
Goddamn.

And I kept reading it for way too long hoping it would get better and it doesn't.

I don't know about you but if I got sent to WW2 and had the choice to give my nation (which lost) modern technology I'd do it in a heartbeat.

What do these guys do? Actively battle against their own military, for fuck's sake.

"Hurr Durr we're the USA's best submissive buddy in the present so we much ensure that Japan does not win"

Or that goddamn pussy officer who almost gets the ship sunk because he didn't want to give the order to open fire with missiles on the planes attacking him.

The WW2 japs behave like fucking assholes too, goddamn.
Yamamoto gets told exactly when and how he will die. He proceeds to do NOTHING to avoid it.

And that's to say nothing about the dozens of WW2 japs who want to SINK the goddamn modern destroyer because "Hurr we want Japan to lose because corruption".
What the fuck.

Goddamn Zipang pisses me off so much.
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>>102199324
>The WW2 japs behave like fucking assholes too, goddamn.
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>>102199324
>I don't know about you but if I got sent to WW2 and had the choice to give my nation (which lost) modern technology I'd do it in a heartbeat.
And create a paradox because you killed the guy who invented that modern technology and defeated the country who built it.
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>>102199492
There isn't ONE redeemable Japanese character in there.
For fuck's sake.

Except maybe the infantry officer they show for a bit trying to save his troops after the Allies attack.
But that's probably just because I can't remember something retarded he did.

And meanwhile pretty much all Americans are shown in a positive light. Even the stupid ones are shown as being at least brave.

Zipang is so pro USA it's insane.
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SARABA
CHIKYUU YO
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>>102199576
Given what happened to my country due to us losing the war, I'd say it's definitely worth whatever happens.
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>>102199694
Oh hey, thanks for the bigger version.
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How'd the manga end.
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>>102198684
How is Joshiraku a Yamato Damshii series? Because it uses lots of Nip humor? Anyway for me it would be
>Gate
>Koe no Katachi
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Anything by Matsumoto Leiji
Onward to Our Noble Deaths
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>>102198684
>Zipang
Damn, I miss months ago when Zipang scanlation is active.
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>>102199675
You're missing his point. The WW2 Japs acted like assholes because they were assholes in WW2.
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>>102199899
>Gate
I still doesn't understand why many people mad at
>The only country who have black man as SF is USA
The only one who should mad is African fag
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>>102200119
I refuse to believe every single Jap in WW2 was either so insanely corrupt he would happily see his entire country set ablaze and crushed into submission for his own selfish goals, or defeatist fools who go to their death, without a glimmer of fighting spirit in their hearts.

What's the fucking point of that manga?
These is noone to root for, every single main character is a colossal piece of shit of the worst kind.
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>>102200211
>Japan gets dibs on fantasy world because the gate is in Japan

>Japan has the right to deny other countries access to foreign diplomats.


>>102200308
Learn history it really was that bad.
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>>102200211
That's really not all there is. The entirety of the story is an absurd depiction of glorious Nippon fighting against the rest of the world (and winning). It doesn't acknowledge Japan's war crimes, nor does it provide any sort of realistic conflict, since Japan would be annihilated within weeks of defying international law.
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>>102200358
>defying international law
Which law?
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>>102200547
>>102200350
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>>102199723
Their country would be in a worse place if they won.
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>>102201038

How so?
How could victory be worse than getting nuked and then shamed for decades?
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>>102199675
Have you considered the fact that people raised in a democracy might not want to see thei country stay a militarist totalitarian regime that exploits and oppresses its neigbors? That's like saying that a modern German ought to help Hitler win WW2 because "muh country".
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>>102201108
>huge technological evolution and innovations leading to being leaders of various markets worldwide
>overall respect for their peaceful ways
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>>102201108
Japan as a country was (and still is to an extent) one of the most xenophobic nations in history. Additionally, the majority of their industry is in exportation, and they lack the geographic size to farm food for a large population. If the world ultimately ended up in a similar position to how it is today, Japan would be a tiny, weak, backwards, and self-isolated nation. They might even still have a fucking emperor.
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>>102201214
Are you trying to say it's ok to let hundreds of thousands, even millions of your people die because you're a liberal scumbag?

Yeah, that sounds about right.
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>>102201108

The country would be ruled by fascist military leaders who would murder the shit out of anyone who speaks out in dissent?

Yamamoto and many Admirals were only saved from being murdered because they were on ships where the IJA couldn't get to them
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>>102201327
Yanamoto and his bros should have levelled IJA HQ and taken over, god damnit.
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>>102201310
The country itself and all the people living in it would be in a far worse place. Whether the deaths of all those Japs in the bombings was tragic enough to want the whole course of history changed is subjective.
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>>102201310
When the alternative is making it so that you and the life you know never existed?

Yes. RIP in pieces people from the past who already died from my perspective
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>>102201420

The war could have been brought to a speedier conclusion and saved a lot of lives on both sides but Japan was straight up fucked either way.
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>>102201310
Did you just look at the pictures? The characters were grappling with that wery dilemma.

How do you know that a totalitarian expansionist regime, that started the war, wouldn't kill more people on the long term if allowed to win?
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>>102201305

They do have an Emperor still, bro
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>>102201310
Nigga, you edgy

>It's as if they have a sense of morality

Get back to school. I'm sure you're needed to deal with all the complaints about the anime club because you decided to show Bible Black to 13 year-olds.
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>>102201510
Sad as it is, Japan made a mistake not bowing to the West over China/Manchuria. They were too intent on fucking China over and they eventually lost everything, Korea, Formosa, Manchuria, hell their entire empire. They were lucky that MacArthur let them keep their emperor, which might not necessarily have been the best thing.
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>>102201540

It wouldn't have been THEIR people dying with that level of technology, nowhere near those numbers anyways.
I'd trade the lives of my ancestors for untold numbers of Americans any day.
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>>102201550
In the same way England has a monarch. I mean an Emperor with actual political power.
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>>What is the most YAMATO DAMASHII manga / anime ?

No contest.
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>>102201310
They still might not of been able to use anything reverse engineered for a long time.

The chances of them mass producing something early in the war is low and late in the war they were running out of resources so mass production of modern military equipment wouldn't happen.

They still would have lost and there would just be a prolonged war causing more death.
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>>102201630

More Japanese would have died in the long run given how good the IJA was at killing their own.

If your primary interest is saving the life of your "ancestors", then your goal is to end the war with as little bloody consequences as possible.

The MacArthur regime that followed was probably one of the most peaceful occupation in history. And certainly better for most ordinary Japanese than if the IJA radicals maintained office and murdered anyone who opposed them.

Now, if you are a wingnut who wants to waive his samurai sword around and talk about Japan's glorious future, you help the IJA government win
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>wait a minute, that sword.gif
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>>102201588
Hirohito should have been made to abdicate at the very least. He was very much in favor of the war and encouraged it, until it was obvious it could not be won, did what he could to undermine democracy after WW2.
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>>102201681
In that setting it makes sense, at least.
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>>102201856
I agree. One of Macky's wrong decisions there. Hirohito's rep was also whitewashed after the war.

What did he do to undermine democracy, though?
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>>102201736

They could have upgraded their ships to be significantly more effective in a couple of years.

The destroyer alone could one hit disable any ship the USA had (and they had a couple of those anti-ship missiles).

Even once its ammo ran out it's speed and sonar would have kept it insanely effective with WW2 weapons.

>>102201747

I'm not Japanese. My country went out of WW2 way worse off than Japan.

At least they're moderately rich now, there's barely anything left of my nation.
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>>102201856
>>102201910
Making Hirohito abdicate would have been problematic since new regimes in Japanese history have legitimized themselves through the consent of the emperor. I agree though, since leaving Hirohito untouched contributed to the post-war rise of Japanese nationalism.
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>>102201909
When FUCKING ALIENS are trying to kill you all, do you really have time to bitch about nationalism?
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>>102201936
>went out of WW2 way worse off than Japan
Czechia? Ex-Yu?
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>>102201910
He tried to use his position as emperor to influence political decisions in the same way he had done before Japan's surrender. He was overstepping his authority and undermining the constiturion.
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>>102201936
The difference between your country and Japan is that Japan is honestly better off after the war. Unlike you, they wouldn't want the alternative.
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>implying that even if they got involved it would change much

It's not like even with their ship they could conquer the USA. And it's not like they could build more of them, or even restock the majority of the modern ammo with 1940s Japan machinery.

They'd win a peace deal, maybe take Hawaii or something, then 10 years later the USA would come back and dunk them once they had time to develop countermeasures.
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>>102202024
Germany.
Never forget the mass murder of the entire population of the peaceful town of Dresden.
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>>102202000
Well, maybe the Americans could have set themselves up as scapegoats and rewritten Japan's political future, and the samurai class that remained in power in any event, emperor or no, could have liked it or lumped it. In the event they didn't have the stomach for that.
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>>102202000
They could have had a new untainted emperor take over. Plenty of Japanese emperora had abdicated in the past.
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>>102202068
The Freedom train has no brakes
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>>102202031

I disagree. But even then, what's the point of this Manga?
Who are we supposed to root for?

The NAVY OFFICER who for some reason is a Pacifist and got several of his men killed and the ship heavily damaged because he didn't want to fire on the 40 or so bombers attacking?

Oh yeah, what a hero.
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>>102202086

I thought you were from SEA or something.

Germans don't get to complain about how they are poor, I'd rather be an average German over a citizen of any Asian country if I wanted quality of life.
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>>102202086
You really shouldn't talk considering what your ancestors did to other nations. Germany got off very easy.
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>>102202198
He's probably just an edgy Hitlerboo from /pol and not even German
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>>102202198
>>102202237
The country's infrastructure was bombed to hell and back. Severe losses in manpower. Split in half and partially occupied by the Soviets. It's questionable whether the eastern half has yet recovered.
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>>102202237
>Got off easy

>Hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered
>Most of the resource rich land stolen
>Entire history rewritten
>Nation torn to shreds to the point there's only a couple "true" German towns left
>Constantly told that we must hate ourselves and that we are evil

Yeah ok. Thanks USA.
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>>102202195
Have you considered the fact that there can be a story with no clearly defined good and bad guys?
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>>102202357
Of course and it makes for great stories when both sides have reasonable motivations.

Zipang is not one of those. It's an insanely cringe worthy, America brown nosing, ultra pacifist lecture.
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>>102202068

Can a single modern destroyer stand up against an entire American WW2 fleet, with hundreds of land-based and carrier aircraft?

Or rather can that single destroyer sink the entire fleet without getting knocked out?

Even if that's the case, Americans have more fleets to throw at the destroyer.

All the while, Americans and their allies are taking over islands and severing Japan's already precarious supply line. They are probably not going to have the resources to utilize the modern technology, maybe not even repair the inevitable damage the destroyer is going to take.

There's also the fact that a single destroyer cannot be in two places at once. If American divide their massive fleet and invasion force, then the destroyer can only try to stop one while Americans

Alternatively, Americans just start nuking the shit out of mainland Japan and murder every single man, woman, and child on the islands if they are pissed off enough.
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>>102202345
The US gave you a ton of cash, wiped you debts and allowed you to rebuild your economy. They could have left Germany to rot.
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>>102202345

Why don't you go make an luxury car about it
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>>102202493
B-but they didn't let us keep Polish land or pretend we did nothing wrong after the war! Fucking evil Americunts. Hiel Hitler etc
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>>102202115
The manpower and material differences between the two countries were simply too big. They were always too big. Japan entered the war on a fool's hope in the first place.

Even possessing a ship that powerful they still have no chance in the long run. Hell, it might even be better if the ship wasn't so damn advanced so that they could have a chance at reproducing it and capitalizing on quality vs quantity quantity still wins in wars of this scale though
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>>102202345
Could have been worse, check up the Morgenthau Plan
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>>102201936
If the war lasted unit 1945 the US and soviet union would be at war with japan and the united states have nuclear weapons. I'm thinking it would have ended worse.
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>>102202658
Yeah, go on Nihon Kaigun and you'll discover that America was outbuilding Japanese shipping by a lot even at the worst of the Great Depression.
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>>102202345
>Hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered

Really?
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>>102202901

Shh, fascists have a terrible sense of irony
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>>102202658
Their plan was always to make it a quick one-two punch and end it, like they did to the Russians in 1905 (that's a whole other ballgame, though--Russia was incredibly unstable at the time, and the Russian fleet was exhausted after an incredibly long journey). The hope was that the initial defeat and continued victories by the IJN would cause the US to sue for a temporary peace, giving Japan time to consolidate before hostilities began again.

Of course, it went as we all know.
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>>102204078
Like I said, a fool's hope.
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>>102200358
>>102200358
i dont get why people always think that if theres a story about a war it has to be about the war crimes. wwII drama? got to put nanking in it. you want to focus on X battle in year 19XX? nope, you have to write about comfort women

you are that retarded
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>>102204132
But it's not a fool's hope, because that's exactly what Russia and China did. From the history of modern Japan it seemed perfectly grounded in reality.

>>102204138
knee-jerk reaction after World War II (and I, to a lesser extent). You're just an ultranationalist whitewashing history if you just show the combat, so people go out of their way to shoehorn muh warcrimes to keep that from happening.
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>>102204078
Indeed. The industrial base of the US was vastly greater than that of Japan. Even if Japanese plans had gone perfectly, which of course they didn't, it would have only delayed the inevitable. As Yamamoto said "I shall run wild considerably for the first six months or a year, but I have utterly no confidence for the second and third years." Japanese plans relied on the US losing the will to fight and making a peace treaty that was favorable for Japan, which it quite clearly didn't do. It was a miscalculation on the part of the Japanese government and they drove themselves into a conflict that they could not win. The Russo-Japanese war taught them the wrong lesson.
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>>102204431
>But it's not a fool's hope, because that's exactly what Russia and China did

Can I get an explanation?
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>>102204431
weve had history for awhile and war still happens. explain that
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>>102204431
China was far from defeated so I don't see how that's an example. And equating Tzarist russia, a mismanaged corrupt empire on its last legs, with the US was utterly misleadibg ans had catastrophic results.
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>>102204132
>>102204527
While Japan was aiming for a near impossible strategy, history has shown that a small nation forcing a peace against a larger power through tactical success even in the face of terrible long-term strategic odds is at least in the realm of possibility. Look at Napoleon against Russia and Austria, where the decisive victory at Austerlitz brought France back from what should have been complete economic collapse sustaining the war effort. In the case of Japan, achieving this sort of miracle would have involved a level of planning that was completely outside of the comprehension of IJN leadership. For example, had both Germany and Japan performed exceptionally well, with not only the Japanese winning tactical engagements but also the Germans both taking the Suez and bringing Russia out of the war, the Axis may have been able to force the Allies to a negotiated peace. Of course, this essentially relies on everything going well for the Axis powers instead of the often incompetent leadership they displayed. The Soviet Union could likely only have been stopped if Japan had joined the German attack. While that would have likely lead to a Japanese tactical defeat against the Russians, it would have delayed enough of the Soviet Army to achieve strategic goals. That was the Axis' main weakness: their inability to think of united strategic goals over specific national interests. The Allies, by contrast, planned strategy with a unitary goal of stopping the Axis.
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Onward towards our noble deaths and Yoshihiro Tatsumi's works are perhaps some of the most damning. Some of Tezuka's maybe.
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>>102199324
>I don't know about you but if I got sent to WW2 and had the choice to give my nation (which lost) modern technology I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I bet you'd like to suck Röhm dick.
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>>102205291
Which is why it's a Fool's hope. Looking at X outcome from history and pinning everything on emulating it while ignoring the considerably different circumstances and not being aware of the vast difference in tactical and strategic skill between themselves and those who managed to affect X outcome is just a fool's hope pumped up by their own hubris.

I can't blame them for striking at the US, as it was born of a rather desperate situation(although if they'd never gone so extreme and had their adventures on the continent, they would not have provoked the US's ire and been quite so desperate in the first place), but actually defeating the US in a conflict was a dream at best.



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