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What a fucking mary sue.
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>>102189493

Man,I was really hoping she'd get caught in that episode.
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>>102189493
Best Girl.
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They actually fucked with that episode in the anime, in the novels she accomplishes nothing and the kids get killed.
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>>102189493
Deal with it bitch
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>>102189603
Sasuga Urobuchi-sensei.

Was there a point in them dying?
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>>102194669
She actually doesn't even find them.
And yes, there's a point in that.
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Ryuunosuke's not even a real magus, beating him isn't exactly an astounding feat.
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>>102194875
The bangle was a A-rank magical artifact that Caster made for him. That Rin could overload it is a pretty big deal.
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>>102194991
Oh, well, I guess she's just that awesome then.
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T
O
H
S
A
K
A
'
S

A
N
U
S
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>>102194991
Caster has no Item Creation Skill. He'd never made anything even close to A rank
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>>102195139
He has no Item Creation skill because Prelati's Spellbook completely usurps it anyway.
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>>102194788
Please spoil me. What was the point?
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>>102189603
What the fuck anime
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>>102194669
>Was there a point in them dying?

Even evil mages need furniture, you know.
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Ryuunosuke and Caster were the biggest winners in the Fourth Grail War. Discuss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIb6AZdTr-A
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>>102195296
No. He has Territory Creation Skill as his own. This means. He can't make any worthwhile artifacts. And a weaksauce hypnosis bracelet is in no way an A-rank artifact.
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>>102195541
Well, Caster was a bit disappointed, that he couldn't bring Jeanne to understand and recognize him.
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>>102195751
If he can't create items, and the bracelet isn't a Noble Phantasm itself, where did it come from? Caster must have created it. And if it didn't come from an Item Creation skill, the only option left would be for him to have created it using Prelati, an A+ rank NP itself that just so happens to permit high thaumaturgy.
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>>102195419
Showing how every outsider is completely powerless in the Holy Grail War and a kid can do absolutely nothing about it.
The segment (which is something like 5 pages) also gives some insight for the relationships inside the Tohsaka family and make Kariya meet his waifu.
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>>102196039
Hypnosis is not a high thaumaturgy. Even Waver can do that.
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>>102196140
You know what is? Item creation.
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>>102196226
>You know what is? Item creation.
No it isn't. High quality item creation is. Low quality item creation isn't.
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>>102196321
Now you're just splitting hairs. Overkill or not, it could manage either.
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>>102195101
I came as fast as I could!
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>>102189603
This is the only episode where Kariya actually accomplishes anything.
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>>102196467
He accomplished getting his shit pushed in by an eight year old girl.
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>>102196467
Fuck man I feel so bad for Kariya.
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>>102196518
Wat
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>>102196602
see >>102193652
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>>102196538
He truly is the hero /a/ deserves.
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>>102196602
Ah fuck, it said Kariya, my bad.
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>>102196442
>it could manage either
What? You need to actually have notable skill to do notable skill. Item creation in and out of itself is not.

That's like saying I could manage to make either a palace or a table, because my carpeting skill enables me to build a table.
/spoiler: Building a palace is out of my league.
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>>102196705
Well if she did attack Kariya and beat his crippled ass thinking he was the killer, it would have been something that would have fit right into the miserable pile of shit his life became at the end.
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>>102196777
You don't have Prelati's Spellbook, do you? It does more than summon starfish, you know.
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>>102196538
It could have been worse.

He could have been ginger.
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>>102196777
What the fuck sort of carpet do you use to build a table?
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>>102196817
>The buzzing became steadily louder. It was approaching her. In the blink of an eye, the stuff on top of Rin’s head rushed inward like a cover of black fog. That thing quickly passed above Rin like a turbid current, striking the depth of the darkness in a split second.
>This was already the limit of Rin’s endurance. Her sight dimmed, and her footsteps faltered. The moment before she was about to fall, someone took her in his hands.
>In front of her eyes was a monster with only the left side of his face visible. That face, ugly beyond description, was embedded with a dim and lightless eyeball. But his right eye eluded a deep loneliness and melancholy. I think I have seen this expression somewhere before...
>Rin thought so before she lost consciousness.
Kariya was the one that saved her from getting tentacle raped by one of the cthulhu monster
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>>102196996
Eh, the Makiri Magic makes him an Albino either way. Yknow, it's actually kind of hard trying to make his life worse.
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>>102197073
I know that.

But if she kicked his ass after he saved her or if she had set out to attack the suspicious looking man wandering the streets at night unable to recognize him it would have just been one more humiliation that fit right into what his life became.
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>>102197127
I was making a Shiro joke but now I have to think of how things could have gone worse for that poor guy.

And all I can think of is he actually wins and Zouken renigs his deal and tosses Sakura into the wormpit a final time in front of Kariya before satan is released.
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>>102195101
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Why did Kariya even need the worms? Did his magic circuits atrophy from lack of use so quickly? Berzerker wasn't, as far as I could tell, that much stronger than any of the other Servants, and you would think if a mage like Waver with shallow magical blood could sustain Iskander just fine, he could have don't the same.
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>>102197406
I know what if Kariya order Berserker to "Kill Zouken right after the summoning and he rips out Sakura's heart because of the crest worm.
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>>102197535
Berserkers as a class require far more prana than other servants just to keep in check and obeying you. The worms are used to substitute his shitty circuits and supply enough prana to keep Lancelot around. Without them he'd have no chance at all of contrlling him.
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TOKIOMI IS THE ROOT OF ALL THE EVIL SHIT THAT GOES DOWN IN ZERO AND STAY NIGHT

TOKIOMI IS THE ROOT OF ALL THE EVIL SHIT THAT GOES DOWN IN ZERO AND STAY NIGHT

HE'S LITERALLY FANTASY HITLER
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>>102197670
Not Fastwheels, the serial killers or what the Germans and their pet assassins did.
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>>102197655

Why does he have shitty circuits? Isn't he from an old family - or was Kenneth really full of shit when he said older families were stronger?

And you'd think that everyone involved would avoid the Berserker class, since it requires more mana but doesn't give you that significant of an advantage.
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>>102197670
Where does this line of thought even come from? Sure, he's kind of a dick but for the most part he's just an incredibly proud and old-fashioned magus.
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>>102197864

Not that guy, but he gave his daughter up to the worm pit. He may not be the source off all the problems in the series, but he's certainly evil as shit.
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>>102197535
He fought Gilgamesh and King Arther on even ground and might have won both fights if shit was allowed to continue or Kariya's worms hadn't shitted out on him.

As a side not it always bothered me that the 'Crest worms' are called worms when they are clearly larvae
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>>102197938

Yeah, "even". Not clearly superior, just even.
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>>102197864
He caused this guy to happen.

And Gilgamesh.

And getting Kariya in the war by dumping his daughter without vetting Zouken
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>>102197864
He gets Kirei into the grail war, summons Gilgamesh (and is such a huge fucking faggot that the King of Heroes who was willing to fucking work with a god damn high school kid fight a women who wants to stuff earth into her snatch hates him), and gave Sakura to Zouken.

He might not be responsible for everything bad in Fate/Zero, but he's literally at fault for every Route going the way it does in Fate/Stay
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>>102198054
And don't forget he caused wormslut to exist at all
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>>102197862
No, older families are definitely stronger but that's due to the passing of a family's magic crest, which of course Kariya didn't have. The berserker class is meant as a crutch due to the stat boosts it provides. Unfortunately, in both the 4th and 5th wars both berserkers would've been far better off as any other class. I'm not sure about Kariya's magic circuits specifically, but presumably they're in shit condition from never being trained or used.

>>102197925
He doesn't view it this way though. As a magus, the idea that the Makiri were willing to adopt Sakura was pretty much a blessing. A chance for her to avoid a life void of magic. Because only one child can receive the magic crest and learn the ways of the family, the second child is doomed to a life of mediocrity, at least as far as a magus is concerned. Furthermore, the Makiri are pretty highly esteemed, as one of the original 3 Grail War families. He didn't know they were gonna worm rape her. It was a pretty good deal in his eyes.
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>>102198046
Lancelot would have won both those fights had they not been interrupted, I don't think he would have fared as well with his sanity, because he still had all his skill.
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>>102198176
>He didn't know they were gonna worm rape her.

False. He'd have to have been retarded not to know what type of magic they had or at least investigate it before giving his daughter to them.

He literally didn't care because he thought "a life with no magic is worse, SO BUCKLE UP FOR SOME WORM RAPE SAKURA"
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>>102198176
Really how would Lancelot have been better as another class?

He didn't lose his best weapons like Hercules or his skill. So how was Lancelot WORSE as a Berserker?
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>>102198243
Lancelot with sanity would be pretty powerful. With an intelligent master you could conceal his identity for all kinds of tomfoolery.
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>>102198376
Aside from getting Saber to attack Rider or the like which happened anyway. There isn't much profit for Team Kariya in this scenario.
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>>102198293
Jesus no he fucking didn't.

He knew there was something off about the Matou's, but he didn't know exactly that there was a worm rape dungeon. If he did there was no way he would have let her go there, especially considering Zouken wasn't even going to allow her to 'reach her potential', he was just using her to get her to have children.
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>>102198376
But also a lot weaker, plus there really isn't a lot that that kind of tomfoolery would have done besides expose Lancelot to more fights he has to run away from.
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>>102198468
>>102198588
His NP For Someone's Glory while not under the effects of Mad Enhancement allows him to freely disguise as OTHER servants. This goes beyond visual deception and affects the other senses as well. It's hard to think about how specific scenes might have gone down with this ability but the possibilities are pretty much endless.
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>>102198350
>But, Kariya's Master aptitude was extraordinarily high for a makeshift magus. Considering the absolutely absurd magical energy consumption of the Mad Enhanced Lancelot, he really should be praised for enduring as long as he did. Lancelot being able to put up a good fight against Gilgamesh was the result of his abilities being boosted by Mad Enhancement
In this case he got better as Berserker
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>>102198567
So whose child would Sakura have?
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>>102198724
>allows him to freely disguise as OTHER servants

I feel like you are missing a word here.

>allows him to freely disguise HIMSELF as OTHER servants

Then we are only really left with the possibility of Lancelot pretinding to be someone else to start shit between to other teams, and this seems kinda redundant because they are all in the middle of a free for all anyway so everyone will already be trying to kill everyone else.
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>>102193652
I really hate when they design the character on the past with the fucking same hair style from 10 years later. The lack of criativity just kills me.
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>>102199018
>actually wanting rin without twintails
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>>102198993
I did miss a word, cheers. You're only thinking about that specific fight. Ideally, if Kariya wasn't set on revenge he wouldn't have bumrushed into that encounter in the first place.

Lancelot's sword, Arondight also raises all stats by one rank when drawn, which pretty much makes up for the lack of mad enhancement. Admittedly he still has this as a berserker, but he can be a little more intelligent about it.
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>>102199181
No I am thinking about all possible stratagems Kariya or Berserker could have used with that. And the problem with False Flag operations in battle royal is there is nothing to be gained from sparking a conflict when all sides are currently at war, all he would be doing is endangering himself.

Besides he is a paranoid hobo partnered to a man who wants to be murdered by his king alliances will not work well for him especially if he tries to insight a partnership off of one of his raids.
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If you had intelligent Lancelot, you could disguise him as a different servant each time and leave false, indecipherable clues for the rest of the teams to waste time over.
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>>102198243
He wouldn't have won both of them, no.
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>>102199728
He would have beat Saber and he had mad skills that no sold the Gate of Babylon.

IF Kariya's worms hadn't exploded he could have gone all the way.

Provided of course Kotomine didn't murder him during the final showdown.
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>>102199934
He trumped Saber. Regarding GoB, he only no-sold volleys of 16.
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>>102200095
They never stated or implied that was his limit.
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>>102200184
If you want to pull that card, yes, they did say he'd struggle with 32.
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>>102200316
Without his own sword Arondight, so Berserker wasn't at his max then ether.
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>>102198905
Shinji was probably Touken's reasoning
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>>102200316
Never mind that he only dealt a vague amount of damage back when he got a hold of the jet.
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>>102200678
They never actually hurt the other during the jet fight though and that ended when Berserker went back to trying to kill Saber.
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>>102200444
And Gil didn't use Ea, moot point
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>>102200820
Would Gil use Ea before it was to late though?
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>>102200779
I'm pretty sure Lancelot did hurt him when he deployed those flares. Gil was hanging back and dicking around.

Gate of Babylon messed Lancelot up after he went after Saber, too.
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>>102200929
I don't even think he would need to use Ea.
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>>102197862
He doesn't ahve shitty circuits, he's actually the first Matou in generations to be born with almost average circuits which basically makes him a miracle child to them. However when he left the family Zouken no longer cared about any potential he had, since he's only average at best anyway, he can find a replacement, and a traitor is better off dead in the worst way possible for even daring to go against him no matter what he might have represented for the clan.

His circuits are almost half decent, but he just never trained them since birth so in order to take on the most prana draining servant he had to take supplements. He might have been fine just getting a normal servant, but he wouldn't have lasted as long and Zouken made him summon Berserker PRIMARILY as a punishment to fuck him over and kill him.
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>>102199181

I don't know -- would it rather be the case that Lancelot wouldn't want to employ such underhanded tactics since MUH CHIVALRY? Not to mention how distracted by Saber he would be if his reasoning wasn't clouded.
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>>102195419

>Please spoil me. What was the point?

A child can't do anything when adults are fighting. All a kid can do is to get into even more shit.

Because Kariya had to rescue her, he died a little bit more that night, which made it harder for him to rescue Sakura. Good job, Rin! You helped kill your Uncle!
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>>102201300

If you think about it this way, Kariya is the guy who refused a chance to go to University. If he'd become the Matou family magician, he would've got everything he ever wanted.

The moral of the story is: If doing the right thing makes you miserable as fuck, go ahead and do what you love, even if it's fucking evil.

If you notice, everyone who's vaguely 'good' in Fate/Zero is as miserable as fuck. The evil guys are all having the time of their lives. Even Kirei starts to really enjoy himself, once he gets into the swing of things.
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>>102203151
>If he'd become the Matou family magician, he would've got everything he ever wanted.

There is no becoming a Matou magician, that's not how Matou's work, if you're in that family then all you can ever be is a spare body or food for Zouken like Shinji's mother. Zouken is the crest of the Matou household pretty much, you don't inheirit the crest in that family but rather you are eaten and taken over from the inside eventually.

Getting out of that house was one of the smarter choices he's made; still Shinji and Sakura are safe from becoming worm food for various reasons at least. Sakura is needed to be a breeding machine, which was her purpose originally, and becoming Shadow was a happy accident rather than having anything to do with her purpose there. Shinji is just too useless to care about so he's safe, kid doesn't even have potential in the first place.
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>>102203430
Unless he plotted to backstab Zouken.
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>>102201300

How could Kariya, who should have understand Zouken's character better than anyone, fall for something so stupid?

I mean, wouldn't it make a lot more sense at least to use Berserker to attack Zouken?
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>>102204369
Wouldn't have worked anyway, as long as the crest worm is still alive Zouken will remain immortal. The crest worm at the time was either in Sakura or Kariya. He literally could not go against Zouken without being eaten internally the next moment.
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Urobutcher loves Rin, so no surprise that that happened
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>>102204468

I know that, but HE didn't know that Zouken had a Horcrux somewhere. I'm saying from his perspective, it would have made a lot more sense to try to rid the world of Zouken than hope he would keep his promise.
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>>102204739
Even he knew he was kind of at Zouken's mercy here unless he won the contest, it was meant to be that kind of scenario. You can chalk it up to him knowing the old magus and knowing something like that wouldn't kill him, or knowing that he had worms inside of him that prevented him from just telling Tokiomi what's up perhaps, but it was meant to be this type of hopeless scenario for him.
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Kariya should have summon a Caster waifu.
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>>102189493
>mary sue
That's your problem with the writing of F/Z?
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>>102205268
Shinji, well Sakura, should have. Imagine how buttflustered he'd be
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>>102205529
Sakura did summon her compatible waifu/bro spirit in the fifth war



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