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Is Griffith evil?
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Of course not.
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Lawful evil like a motherfucker
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Why does Zodd look so sad there?
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Griffith is not evil, but he's not a good guy either. He's dark (but not evil.)

>>102172578
because he knows Skull Knight is strong as fuck and has the highest possibility of killing a God Hand. he fails because Griffith is 2 powerful 4 u
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>>102171979
He's amoral.
Which means he doesn't give a shit - which could be considered a negative trait in itself- and that he will be evil at times and for some people and good at other times for some people, that's all.
Fuck you and your gay thread
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>>102173075
He seemed to give quite a bit of a shit when Guts beat him.
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>>102173140
That's cause he's got homolust and superiority issues
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>>102171979
Griffith isn't. Femto is.
>>102173075
I wouldn't say that he's amoral. It's just that he's ready to do immoral things to attain moral goals.
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>>102173443
Oh you got a trip.
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>>102173516
Yes. I figured that I could honor him a bit more with it, and make conversations easier to follow.

And to be honest, I've always kinda wanted to be a tripfag.
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>>102173443
Are you sure that Femto is evil? I wouldn't say anything is final yet. Falconia might turn out to be really great, who knows.
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Griffith and Femto are basically the same. Lawful evil, good intentions, but deplorable and even unforgivable means.
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>>102173900
Believe me, I'd love to say that he isn't but evidence overwhelmingly points to that. He looks evil, he acts evil, he's been prophetized as evil, etc...
>>102174026
Griffith was neutral good. He had good intentions, and he didn't care whether he had to act lawful or unlawfully to achieve what he wanted. For example:
Lawful action: making deals with nobles and respecting them
Unlawful actions: killing all the rivals who tried to also unlawfully kill him.
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>>102173516
You know I think he actually was bullshitting Charlotte when he made that speech, or at least trying to bullshit himself. Guts was clearly very meaningful to him and being defeated by him emotionally crippled him. He cared very deeply for all his compatriots, but he had this warped way of looking at it that meant he must do whatever necessary to fulfill the dream he had gotten them to commit to or it'd be like breaking their spirits and making all the lost lives along the way mean nothing. He took "believe in me who believes in you who believes in me" to an extreme. He made himself an ideal and the whole thing to came crashing down when it was made apparent he was still just a man.

So the most obvious solution was to simply become more than a man.

>>102173900
I'm damn certain Falconia will usher in a golden age of prosperity, Griffith will ascend to godking status and Guts will be demonized as the asshole trying to tear it all down. Griffith will actually be a hero to everyone and Guts for all his suffering will be made the villain. Maybe then he'll use the behelits. It'll be awful and wonderful.
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>>102174254
Well the looks and prophecies aren't real evidence. Judging a book by its cover is never fair, and prophecies are often false in fiction. As far as his acts go, his only really deplorable act since his rebirth was raping Casca.

There's a lot to discuss on that topic, but if you were to tackle it from a purely practical point of view, the rape granted him a body he used to prevent hundreds of thousands of other rapes at the hands of the Kushan. I think Miura might still take the story in an unexpected direction.
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>>102174342
>You know I think he actually was bullshitting Charlotte when he made that speech, or at least trying to bullshit himself.
Yes, he was doing both. I'm glad that someone finally agrees. It's pretty obvious that Griffith's speech didn't fit with his actions. I agree with everything else in that paragraph.
>>102174460
>As far as his acts go, his only really deplorable act since his rebirth was raping Casca.
Well, he also tried to convince the count to sacrifice his daughter. And he unleashed monsters on the world. And he sent apostles to kill the old witch.
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>>102174460
No, fuck you. That rape was in no way necessary for him to do anything. If he hadn't raped Casca in front of Guts, perhaps Guts kills a few Apostles, realizes what Casca means to him with her not being retarded, and they decide to settle down somewhere. Now he not only ruined the two people who were previously the most important to him lives, but also created a seething ball of rage and destruction that can only be stopped by a boat that will inevitably cause conflict for his perfect little kingdom.
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>>102174460
The rape was a practical necessity, but he did it with a lot of personal spite balled up into it, evidenced by his staring directly at Guts the whole time. That entire thing was easily his most intentionally malicious act. Those three have the weirdest fucking love triangle ever.
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>>102174631
This. The Eclipse didn't change Griffith, it just showed him for who he really is, a spoiled child.
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>>102174794
The post you quoted never even implied that.
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>>102174831
No, but the general argument carries the implication that Femto and Griffith are fundamentally different in terms of personality.
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is griffith libertarian?
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>>102174586
Convincing the count is kind of his job. I guess whether or not that's questionable depends on the motives of the Godhand, which is pretty much a mystery at the moment.

As for the world merge, he didn't just unleash monsters. He fused the world of man with the world of ALL fantasies. Dwarves, elves, fairies, unicorns, trolls, ogres, you name it. Everything mankind ever dreamed up is now reality in Midland. That's kind of beautiful in its own way, I wouldn't call that necessarily evil.

We were never really made aware of why Griffith wanted the witch killed. Maybe she would have plotted to take him out if he hadn't acted first. She was friends with Skull Knight, after all. That wouldn't really be any different from him assassinating the Queen. We shouldn't assume she had good intentions just because we never saw her do anything questionable.

>>102174631
If Griffith hadn't been reborn there wouldn't be anywhere to settle down. The Kushan were taking over everything.
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>>102174907
I wouldn't say that they're "fundamentally" different, but they really are overall. I already explained that earlier, so I'll just copy paste my previous post.

>I'm not deluded. Anyone who have read Berserk seriously can't say that Griffith and Femto are the same. They act almost entirely different. Femto is evil and soulless, Griffith was good and really full of life.

>Here he even says that he doesn't feel anything anymore. This is a proof that he used to, and therefore that he changed.
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He's just some loser bitch
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>>102174794
I don't think he's spoiled, he's just caught up in his own ambition. I don't think he even really wants the kingdom anymore, he just simply cannot give it up for fear of "betraying" the dreams of his friends and all those he sent to death. His last thoughts before going all god mode were of settling down and living peacefully with Casca. I think they even had kids named after his other commanders. The man really cares for his friends, but his mind is also really fucked up.
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>>102174951
Like all real men, Griffith is authoritarian.
>>102174995
Next page...
>>102174960
The God Hand call themselves "evil" all the time, though. They never tried to pretend otherwise...
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>>102174995
In my opinion, Griffith was never good. His goals were always selfish, but he had the charisma to make himself seem like a nice guy. The way I saw it was that after Guts beat him, something inside of him snapped. Femto isn't different, he just doesn't try to dress up how selfish and callous he is.
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>>102174960
>which is pretty much a mystery at the moment.
Huh?

God Hand = Agents of Idea of Evil
Idea of Evil = God of Evil, and somehow the Creator too (so nihilistic it hurts).

God Hand's goal is to ensure the world keeps being a really cruel place to live in, making contracts once in a while to stir shit up.
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>>102175075
Evil is just a word. They can call themselves evil all they want, that doesn't really mean anything until we have some more insight into their motives and actions. 'The Idea of Evil' that was proposed in the pulled chapter 83 wasn't going to be evil at all. It was just a collective consciousness born from mankind's unmet desires. It didn't have its own will, and its only goal was to give meaning to human suffering by making people's suppressed emotions a reality. It basically existed to give the human race what it wanted most, which in this case was God.
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>>102175328
Technically the Idea of Evil isn't canon.
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>>102171979
>Is Griffith evil?
He is someone so greedy and spoiled that he became a GOD in order to become a KING, let that sink in for a moment.
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>>102173140
Post-torture Griffith is what I meant
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>>102173516
>implying Caska didn't want it
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>>102175416
Miura stated his reasons for not ever allowing that chapter to be published, Idea of Evil is coming sooner or later.
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>>102175003
I agree. A sore loser, at that.
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>>102175638
Man for all the faults I have, at least I can say I didn't rape my best friend's girlfriend because he was better than me at something and further reinforced the idea that I only want shit that people tell me I can't have.
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I was thinking about this the other day and its an interesting thing
Girffith did some twisted shit. even sacrificed his whole legion of mercs that went out of their way to save him
but it was under a goal, and honestly the sacrifice felt like it was a matter of circumstance, he was ruined and was reflecting upon what he did to get where he is and how far hed have to go to keep his dream alive. which wouldnt be possible with his state before becoming femto.
idk its a really complex thing when i think about it
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>>102175176
Peoples' goals are always selfish one way or another. This is how life on Earth developed. ALL life on Earth is selfish. If we decide that selfish=evil, then Griffith is evil, but then so is everything.

I think that we need to look at Griffith's intentions and actions pre-eclipse. Then, he never did anything that could be seriously considered "evil", and he even showed guilt.

>>102175391
Fine, perhaps they're not evil. We can't be totally sure yet. BUT, for me, and for most people, they're evil until proven otherwise. There's just too much evidence.
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>>102175328
>God Hand's goal is to ensure the world keeps being a really cruel place to live in, making contracts once in a while to stir shit up.

I really doubt that's the case. People treat each other like shit in the Berserk universe. One of the underlying themes of the whole manga is that normal people are as monstrous as the apostles, and sometimes worse. If that's the Godhand's goal they could do literally nothing and be fine. The world is a cruel place by default, it doesn't need a villainous supergroup to make that happen.
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>implying griffith not best husbando in all opf the mangas in china
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>>102175719
Casca was his bitch first. He never gave her the attention she needed and Guts took her away. So he just took her back.
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>>102171979
I think the whole series is based around "who's evil" or what evil is.
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>>102174342
He cares about them in the same way you would care about your possessions, with Guts being his most valuable and prized asset. He never saw any of them as friends, but that doesn't mean that he never cared for them or appreciated their company. I sort of interpreted when Griffith raped Casca as a show of his dominance over her and Guts. He wanted to show that he still owns them.

Once he spends more time as Femto though he realizes how half baked the old Hawk was and gets a real crew together. Griffith's final goal is to own everything in the world.
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>>102175719
Also,
>waa, I got beaten, better rape a princess
>waa, I got imprisoned, tortured and left an empty shell, better rape a world AND the guy who's better than me's girlfriend
He really is a douche.

>>102175803
You know that's not how it works, right?
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>>102174026
>good intentions

having a goal to rule is not really inherently good, espeically when you have no concern for others in getting there.
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>>102175427
You're not even making sense.
>>102175638
>>102175003
He lost one duel in his entire life because his sword broke. I wouldn't call him a loser.
>>102175743
>and honestly the sacrifice felt like it was a matter of circumstance
He was. It would have never happened if not for torture, humiliation, broken dreams, manipulation by God Hand...
>>102175778
No, I agree.
>>102175885
>He never saw any of them as friends
Full retard. To even be able to sacrifice people to the God Hand, they have to matter emotionally for you.
>>102175894
Griffith never raped Charlotte. She loved him more than anyone and was really willing.
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>>102175885
yeah, he could only be friends with an equal and when guts proved his metal griffith had a breakdown. he's incapable of human compassion and empathy
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Naming his new army "The Band of The White Hawk" and then sending them to fight Guts was pretty fucked up
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>>102175885
That's the thing with Griffith. He tries real hard to disconnect and view his friends as possessions, but I think it's evident he actually developed real human feelings for these people, his connection to Guts being so strong he's willing to deviate from plans and prioritize his safety, something he never does. He even outright says Guts was the only one to make him lose sight of his goal. The man developed a BFF (of boyfriend, depending on your perspective) and had no idea how to deal with it.
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Would guts sacrifice Casca when he finds out she's braindead forever to become a demon god? I mean seriously, throw in immortality to guts who is already OP and I'll bet he could kill that fru fru griffith easily
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>>102175766
>pre-eclipse

Pre-eclipse, Griffith's sense of self-confidence wasn't fucking shattered. The second his self-confidence went was the second we saw the true face of Griffith. He fucked up everything over losing a single sword fight that he only got into by being a loud, pretentious asshole.

>>102175803
No, he basically friendzoned Casca. Then Guts got her by actually paying attention to her and not treating her like she was below him.

The only reason Griffith wanted Casca was because Guts got her and Griffith wanted to be able to say he was better than Guts in every way after being the sorest fucking loser of all time.
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>>102176069
I think she'll get her wits back and it'll turn out she hates him anyway, and that'll send him off the deep end. Maybe not drive him to Apostle mode quite yet, but certainly speed up the trip.
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>>102175970
>He lost one duel in his entire life because his sword broke. I wouldn't call him a loser.
And that's because he chose to use a less resistant blade, the advantages and drawbacks of which he knew. He's entitled to his defeat, entirely.

>Griffith never raped Charlotte. She loved him more than anyone and was really willing.
You might want to re-read it. She was scared and confused, yet he forced himself on her. It was rape, even if she did love him. He knew he was in the wrong anyway, for fucking a princess he hasn't married.
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>>102176069
guts won't end up beating femto in a straight up duel, femto is way too strong for that.
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>>102175970
Did you not even read my post numbnuts? He cares for them but not in the way a person would care for another person.

Griffith is a very ambitious man. He is seen as being in complete control of his life until Guts leaves him. This is a first for him, and in order to feel that he's back in control he goes and bones Charlotte.

He is very possessive. He doesn't see anyone as an equal unless they follow their own path. The band of the Hawk were essentially tools who Griffith was very affectionate of.
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>>102175894
>>102175988
What kind of translation did you guys read? You're oversimplifying and misconstruing Griffith's character really badly. The whole point was that he felt REALLY crummy about letting other people die for his dream. It led to him making decisions like selling his body to an old man, and ultimately caused him to sacrifice everyone because he was terrified everybody who died for him would have done so in vain. The behelits don't activate for every greedy jerkwad who picks one up. They only work if you're at your absolute limit of grief and torment. Griffith's fatal flaw was crushing guilt, not a hunger for power.
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Dunno why people place their bets on if Guts will ever have a chance to beat Griffith and the other God Hand is by activating a Behelith; that would make him literally their bitch, more than Guts is at the moment, that's what being an Apostle means.

Not being ruled by them means Guts is somehow also fate to become a God Hand himself, that would allow him to have free will, but it would also mean he too is a being of malice and the life he lived till now was a farce, thus Guts would never kill the God Hand instead he would join them in fucking the world over.

So why not bet in him becoming a singular God like Skull Knight is? That guy serves no one, isn't bound by no one and yet he is on par with the God Hand.
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>>102176194
He stopped and told her he wouldn't continue if she didn't want it, and she pulled him closer. She was scared confused cause she's a dumb little girl with bubbly ideas of what love is, but she wanted it. It was statutory at worst
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>>102171979
It seems like it's starting to go toward principal vs reality. Do we continue to hate a man who has what he has at the expense of others even if he helps us? Griffith is evil, but is he beyond redemption?
I'd be one to say I'd stand by principals. Crimes must not go unpunished, and ever single one of the demons among Griffith's armies have killed to gain what they have, regardless of how much they give back. They killed and let die to live, and that, in my opinion, is evil.
I did have moments where I started to wonder if Gutts' journey was truly worth it, if all the death and killing he had done would truly come around, but so long as there is a man who lives off of others pain and death, you need a man who takes care of them and makes the world right again.
Blood for blood, a life for a life. Forgive, but don't forget. Griffith will get his, and it will be worth it.
And for that reason at the end of his journey, Gutts too will die
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>>102176283
he never cared about the people themselves, he banged that old dude so his men could be properly equipped to win battles.

pre-torture griffith would probably not have straight up sacrificed the band of the hawk for his dream, but he certainly had no qualms sending them to fight ridiculous odds on a battlkefield.
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>>102175970
>You're not even making sense.
Griffith went so mad with his ambition and selfishness that after becoming a god with power over pretty much anything he still choose to be a king, a rank smaller in comparison and area of influence.
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>>102176044
This!
>>102176069
Even as an apostle, I doubt Guts could do much. Femto's really, really powerful. Maybe with Schierke's help...
>>102176074
>The second his self-confidence went was the second we saw the true face of Griffith.
Griffith didn't "change" after losing the duel. He was just shocked and depressed. It would have just been a temporary thing. In fact, he wasn't that way after being rescued, he was pretty much just regular Griffith with a ruined body.

>>102176194
>You might want to re-read it. She was scared and confused, yet he forced himself on her.
Which is the right thing to do if you're with a girl who already loves you. Charlotte loved the experience. By the way, you can consent without outright saying "fuck me". She was really into it and didn't fight back. It was consensual.
>>102176260
I don't understand your point. You say he didn't care for them the way another person would, but then you say he was very affectionate of them.
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As God told him, it would be have been worse morally to ignore the hundred thousand who had died for his dream to succeed than the 500 or whatever that were in the Band.

Apparently Griffith never took Microeconomics 101 though as sunk costs should not be considered in decisions.
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>>102176283
>You're oversimplifying and misconstruing X really badly.
Where the fuck do you think you currently are? Of course I am. He's still a sore loser and took the worst decisions at those times.

>>102176371
I don't remember that but I'll take your word on that. Still, he knew he never should fuck royalty he's not married to, and chose to do so because he wanted to take his sad on something.
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>>102176432
He didn't fight battles he thought he'd lose. There was also that thing with the boy soldier that died for him that evidently really got to him
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>>102176069
He would have to be fated to become a God Hand too, making a contract would just mean Guts becomes an Apostle, basically a bitch without a chance, power nor free will to ever harm a God Hand.

The only chances of Guts ever winning this beef is for him to turn into some being akin to the Skull Knight.
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>>102176283
He cares for them, he just doesn't see them as people. They are his tools, but that doesn't mean he can't grow an attachment to them.
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>>102176471
>Which is the right thing to do if you're with a girl who already loves you. Charlotte loved the experience. By the way, you can consent without outright saying "fuck me". She was really into it and didn't fight back. It was consensual.
Okay, I don't remember the details of the scene (I need to re-read Berserk too, but I want to buy it for that and shit's expensive). Still, he had sex with a princess he wasn't married to, to relieve the negative feels Guts gave him by ruining his ass in single battle. He was wrong and should have known that. He's still a nice guy? Tough shit.
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>>102176514
Thinking back, I think it was something they might've added to the movies.

Also, I think his plan was to eventually fuck Charlotte after he got in good with the right people, but his defeat by Guts fucked him up and he needed the power high, so he dangerously sped up his plans.
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>>102176471
>he was pretty much just regular Griffith with a ruined body

So you're telling me that regular Griffith was totally okay with sacrificing all of his "friends" and raping Casca? And you're telling me that isn't evil?

Griffith has selfish goals and stoops to deplorable means to achieve them.
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>>102176432
>he never cared about the people themselves

Based on what? He shows genuine concern in plenty of scenes, and his concern for Guts in particular is indisputable.
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Here i have absolute proof that Griffith is Femto, and no amount of denial can change this fact.
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>>102176444
His dream was always to get his own country, not "get power".
>>102176432
>he never cared about the people themselves, he banged that old dude so his men could be properly equipped to win battles.
Nope. That was just the excuse he used. You're falling for Griffith's lies. He wanted to save his men.

>but he certainly had no qualms sending them to fight ridiculous odds on a battlkefield.
They were all voluntary, and he won all those battles.
>>102176548
Right.
>>102176672
>So you're telling me that regular Griffith was totally okay with sacrificing all of his "friends"
No, that was a moment of weakness.

> and raping Casca?
Femto.

When I said "he was pretty much just regular Griffith with a ruined body" I was talking about the moment from his rescue until he was manipulated by the God Hand.
>>102176683
>Based on what?
Misunderstand of Berserk, of Griffith, and probably parroting other Griffith haters.
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>>102176190
>>102176562
So Guts going full Apostle or skeletor is inevitable then? I mean I really don't know how much longer Guts can string along his spirit and body with Elf dust alone, Hopefully the elf king will clear up a lot of Guts' ticking life
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>>102176471
He cares for them in the same way you care for your possessions. They are his tools, but he appreciates and cares for them to an extent. Obviously not enough to choose not to sacrifice them, but they were the closest things to friends that he had without actually being friends.

As Griffith said himself, he'll only consider his equals friends. He saw Guts as a valued possession, not as a friend.
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>>102176804
Causality anon
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>>102176672
Even crippled Griffith still showed concern for his friends. All the way up to the eclipse he trying to help his friend survive this shit, like the scene where he tried to keep Guts from falling to his death with his feeble cripple arms. It was only after his life review he finally relented to the god hand and accepted their offer
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>>102171979

/a/'s sense of morality is warped. Griffith is of course evil, but /a/, because he was bullied in high school, thinks Machiavellian villains who rule through fear and cruelty are actually good guys. He sees such characters, being more cerebral than muscular, as the way he could exact revenge on the world that didn't love him enough. It's really quite sad.
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>>102176194
>She was scared and confused, yet he forced himself on her. It was rape, even if she did love him
tumblr pls go
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>>102176804
The story is clearly written heading to one of those conclusions, but I think Miura will at least try to surprise us with something unexpected, even if he defaults back to the script
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Wait a minute, where the idea of Femto and Griffith being separate minds/personae came from, am I missing something or is the Tripfag that delusional about excusing Griffith out of his evil deeds?
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>>102176406
>They killed and let die to live, and that, in my opinion, is evil.

Are you vegan by chance?

>all animals are evil.
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>>102176869
I'm surprised that one didn't come earlier.
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>>102176840
Or maybe they're out of high school and have realized morality is not black and white.
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>>102176922
He returns to his surviving comrades to declare "Good news eveyrone! I don't have a soul anymore! Hooray!"
>>102174995
>>102175075
He's clearly different, though maybe not drastically
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>>102176955
Are people animals? Are woman and children and your own flesh and blood animals to you?
All things must die, to not only deny that fact, to fear it, but kill others to gain more time is evil.
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>>102175766

You don't understand biology. In the first place, people put kin groups on a higher level than strangers because they carry copies of their genes. This can even be observed in certain squirrels, who will make an alarm sound when danger approaches at an increased rate when closely related relatives are nearby (its a risk, because the call exposes his position).

Ethics have to do with natural rights and empathy.
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>>102176562
If one of the God Hand is killed, let's say Void because Skull Knight thrusts his sword up his ass, does that mean that a new God Hand can be initiated?

It would be awesome if there was a second eclipse where Guts sacrifices his party in order to ascend to a God Hand, and then proceeds to wreck everyones shit.
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>>102176922
It's still open to interpretation. He might be the same old Griffith but with a broader perspective, or maybe Griffith is dead and gone while Femto uses his body like a sock puppet. We'll have to wait for the story to unfold.
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>>102171979
So did Skull Knight run away with his tail between his legs, and is still alive?
also what makes a man become a Ghost knight?
Did he berserker his way out of hell?
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>>102171979
as a "god" he is amoral, but by a human point of view, yes, he is evil, and a faggot
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The question is whether he can be blamed for anything related to the events of the eclipse. Because if can be blamed for even a small part of it then he cant be forgiven and is evil. Its just that simple.
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>>102177037
>Are people animals?

Well, yes.
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>>102176980

That's quite possible, but this is not exactly Sophie's Choice, and the shows where a large majority of /a/nons will suddenly favor dickish actions are fairly predictable. If it was really a matter of /a/ having a nuanced sense of morality, well, it wouldn't be /a/ at all.
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>>102177185
You know what I mean, and you are dodging the question.
>>
Skull Knight is someone from Guts family.

Fucking Miura.
>>
>>102177176
Well there is that whole rape thing... Is god rape considered amoral?
>>
>>102177239
what if it's Guts from the future?
>>
>>102171979

It doesn't really matter, since Miura will die without finishing Berzerk and we will never know what he ultimately does.
>>
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>>102176829
But they were friends! There's no proof he saw them only as possessions. Griffith liked to pretend that he didn't care about them, but everything he did and felt proves that he did love them as friends.
>>102176838
Or when he almost attacked Wyald to protect Casca.
>>102176922
I'm not delusional. Read the conversation and you'll hopefully realize that.
>>
>>102177180
Deterministic philosophy would say both yes and no. He committed the act of his own volition, but the odds were stacked against him. It was highly unlikely he, or possibly anyone else, would've done differently
>>
>>102177330
>Griffith liked to pretend that he didn't care about them

Are you implying that Griffith is a tsundere?
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>>102177103
The setting states there's a cycle for each new God Hand to be born, dunno about how many years (a thousand, I think); it isn't clear if a God Hand has to die when they are five already when there's another one coming. Anyway the chances is that Guts becomes Skull Knight 2.0 or some other power up happens, becoming a God Hand seems unlikely due the cycle and being one of them means Idea of Evil likes you and your evil ways, basically one would have to agree with all the shit the God Hand pulls in order to become one of them, even if one was against them in the past.
>>
>>102177303
His deserves a better ending than that. Just, just something good in his life for once, that doesn't get raped into retardation.
>>
>>102177289
He did it so he could be reborn into the world. It was a mary and jesus scenario, but with pent up lust and jealousy flying all over the place
>>
>>102177394
Not really. He didn't lash out at the people he liked. He was just a very proud guy who didn't like to admit that he had feelings and stuff like that. He just wanted others to see him as a perfect leader.
>>102177444
If I remember correctly, Miura said the ending would be bittersweet.
>>
>>102177343
Even if it was fate that lead him all the way up to the end he still had a choice. He could have ended his life but no. He was too scared. He had way too much left to do. It was all about him.
>>
>>102177394
I can see that. I don't think his feelings for Guts would have went so far over his head otherwise.
>>
>>102177219
If you're going to say that killing makes one evil, then every single person there is evil.

Do you forget that they were a mercenary army that killed people to live?
>>
>>102177400
The god hand isn't getting a new member. The fifth was the last and they made a big deal about him being the king or some shit. From hereon it's them enacting whatever plan/destiny they have scheduled.

Also, hands only have five fingers
>>
>>102177163
Skully seems to know a lot about magic and contracts, maybe he signed so many that he became a god himself.
>>
>>102177330
By Griffith's own definition, by the way he acted after Guts left, and by what he did during the eclipse, it all points to Griffith seeing the Hawk and Guts as possessions. Like I said he still cares for them, it's just that he doesn't care for them the same way one person might care for another.
>>
>>102177537
Some hands have six...

Anyway, the God Hand were just impressed by another member being born, they weren't losing their shit over Femto, also Void clearly calls the shots among them.
>>
>>102177520
Killing your own men for pure self gain is evil, betraying your closest friends is evil, raping the girl your best friend/boyfriend loved is evil, and mercenaries themselves are morally grey, which is why i originally stated the only way this series is ending is with Gutts dead, because he has done his share of evil. The only ones that are truly innocent or the peasants that are getting killed in nearly every page, the ones minding themselves, the ones who live and let live, and yet they die to the ambitions of men who think they are above all else. Griffith needs to die, and Gutts is the tragic hero who was given the task of doing it.
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>>102177502
He tried, remember. He was too physically weak to do even that. The man was really out of options. The humilation alone of being so pathetic must've wreaked havoc with his ability to think straight
>>
>>102177599
>Like I said he still cares for them, it's just that he doesn't care for them the same way one person might care for another.
I don't see the difference. He often expresses his love differently, but I don't think that it's different on the inside.
>>102177740
You have a pretty pussified view on morality.
>>
>>102177740
>mercenaries themselves are morally grey
I dont know man. If you look at their world in context I would say they are heroes for how much shit is trying to eat you for just walking down.
>>
>>102171979
Does the Pope shit in the woods?
>>
>>102177822
>The man was really out of options.
I dont know. A straight refusal to the god hand would have been insulting I think. I can admit that staring at my own death I would have no hesitation to sacrifice each one of you anons for immortality. I would expect you to do the same.
>>
>>102177869
Nothing was trying to eat them early on, it was simply like the medieval ages of constant war. They saw profit in other's deaths and took the chance to make money.
>>102177854
I don't have time for contrarian edgy faggots that think that killing others is alright if it benefits you while they sit on their computer wishing they where in the Game of Thrones universe, when in reality if the world truly worked on those viewpoints they'd be dead in a week.
>>
>>102177444
face it anon, the dots connect, both Knighty and guts are/were branded. He know exactly when to show up and save the day what if causality is not just fate but just cryptic code for time travel
The only contradiction is the the allusion to Skull's origins which is of a king who may have sacrificed his kingdom to become an apostle
>>
>>102177740
Death in war is expected and unavoidable. killing, at least just enemy soldiers, in such a scenario is usually exempt form questions of morality. War is funny and puts men in kill or be killed situations that play off violent instincts. You can't call a man evil for killing in war; he can barely even qualify as himself.
>>
>>102178000
>it was simply like the medieval ages of constant war
Did you see Nosferatu Zodd? Bet there were others like him that would kill you soon as they see you are breathing the same air as them. The band of the hawk was seen as protectors not a band of roving murderers and rapists.
>>
>>102178070
Which is true in the case of soldiers, drafted or fighting for survival rather than mercenaries fighting and killing for the sake of profit.
>>
>>102178106
Because we only saw them through the eyes of their allies. We never saw how they looked through the eyes of the enemy.
>>
Why did gryphon rape casket?
>>
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I want to be ass-atacked in the face by Schierke
>>
>>102177983
Refusal would've meant going back to his powerless life, making all the deaths he's caused meaningless, and probably worst of all resign Casca and Guts to being his babysitters. Saying no was the option he was too cowardly to choose
>>
> a man who uses others for his own gain without caring about how his actions affect the used

thats basically the definition of evil, op. Just reread eclipse.
>>
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>>102178000
>I don't have time for contrarian edgy faggots that think that killing others is alright if it benefits you
I think that it all depends on the context. It's not just killing=bad. I honestly think that Griffith owning his country would have been better for himself, for everyone, and totally worth the "bad" things he did to achieve this goal.
>>102178070
>>102178106
Let's not forget that the Band was particularly good to civilians in general.
>>
>>102178227
Let's clarify that the deaths that are made through sacrifice are different from normal death. Those who die because of demons are sent to eternal suffering, to hell. All the deaths before him where nothing compared to the ones because of him. He willing killed his friends and sent them to a never ending life of pain and suffering.
>>
>>102178134
All soldiers fight for survival, that is the nature of battlefield conflict. And soldiers drafted or no often end up fighting and killing for frivolous causes they barely understand. Fighting for money to put food in your belly is as good a cause as any of the others. Mercs get a bad rep simply because they have no true loyalties and hence are just kind of wild dogs that go where the meat is. Beyond that, they are no different or less varied than any other kind of soldier
>>
>>102178193
>We never saw how they looked through the eyes of the enemy.
>>102178227
>probably worst of all resign Casca and Guts to being his babysitters
Well its way better than what happened. They would have loved to take him into nowhere to let him live as normal of a life as he could until he died. They owed him that. But no. He had to be something more. He had to become a god because he is important not anyone else who helped him get to where he was.
>>
>>102178000
Is there a word that describes the opposite of edgy? Somebody who holds their own ideas of justice so closely that it actually blinds them to reality. I guess self righteous zealot will have to do.
>>
>>102178330
Maybe, but its not worth sacrificing his friends to eternal damnation. Griffith was evil and willingly rid himself of his friends for his own benefit. Delusional deniers can think what they want, either way this story ends with his death
>>
Elric of Melnibone plot device.

Griffith sucks shitty smegmous asshole from a demons ass, but hey, if all you have to fight evil is evil, throw them buckets of napalm on the fire and pray to demons.
>>
>>102171979
Yes, but it's not a bad thing. He's a better character for it. The way he was fleshed out and the role he plays make him one of the most fascinating characters in the story.

I hate it when people try to dismiss his worth as a character out of childish spite, and I hate it even more when people try to make excuses and whitewash him, as they too tend to dismiss a lot of what makes his character great.
>>
>>102178411
>Somebody who holds their own ideas of justice so closely that it actually blinds them to reality.
We call those people Ned Stark.
>>
Why did griffith rape casca?
>>
>>102178396
Yeah well Griffith was a prissy faggot who couldn't deal with laying awake at night listening to Guts and Caska fuck.
>>
>>102178411
Moralfag is the term you'd be thinking of, and I'm not blind to reality. Most people are selfish, most people would kill others to survive, but those who would kill their friends and family that they've known for ages, those who aren't naive in their actions, are evil.
>>
>>102178430
>this story ends with his death
It does? Do you mind sharing the 20 or so unreleased volumes with everyone here?
>>
>>102178527
If you think it doesn't, your wrong.
>>
>>102178332
>Those who die because of demons are sent to eternal suffering, to hell.
Can you prove that?
>>102178430
You're taking that event out of context.
>>102178469
That was Femto, and he did it to spite Guts and to be able to be reborn later.
>>102178473
>who couldn't deal with laying awake at night listening to Guts and Caska fuck.
Would you be able to deal with that? I don't think so.
>>
>>102178430
Needs of the many vs needs of the few. A few damn souls don't mean much when it leads to a golden age of prosperity for all. Totally a lawful evil decision.
>>
>>102178588
Griffith is Femto, Femto is Griffith. See >>102176720
>>
>>102177537
If these five are the only God Hand ever, then who were the four/five angels that destroyed Midland 1000 years ago? Yes I know that nothings been confirmed, but Miura was very meticulous with Berserk, I doubt he'd spend pages describing that story if it didn't add something to the overall lore.
>>
>>102178588
Yes, it's stated in the first arc.
Those who are affiliated with demons go to that hell place where we first saw Griffith. go back and reread it if you need to.
>>
>>102178573
I can't even tell if you're joking. Even if every person on the planet unanimously agreed that Griffith was evil and deserves to die, that doesn't necessarily mean it will happen in this story. Miura isn't exactly setting us up for a happy ending here.
>>
>>102178658
Griffith's death isn't a happy ending, it's just the ending.
>>
>>102178637
That doesn't prove anything. Everyone refers to him as Griffith because he's currently in that body. It's his official name in that form. Their personality is different. It's like Griffith if he were evil.
>>102178649
Post the page so I don't have to read through hundreds of them.
>>
>>102178649
I see people say this all the time, but it's completely wrong. The Godhand tells the Count HE will go to hell, because 'that's what becomes of those who consort with demonkind'. Puck is the one who says 'Does that mean ... Guts?!' directly afterwards. Puck doesn't know shit at this point in the story, he doesn't even know what the brand is yet. He's not any kind of authority on what happens to the sacrifices.
>>
>>102178644
if it's 4, probably them. The eclipse is what? every 800+ years? The historians probably round up the number. I remeber there was a theory that that event was Void's ascension and skull knight was the king or something from back then
>>
>>102178694
Are you the same guy who got accused of being blinded by his own self righteous views? If so, you might want to take that criticism seriously. Earnestly believing you can see the future before it happens is a pretty clear sign of delusion.
>>
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>>102178649
>>102178742
>>102178758
Proof for anybody interested.
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>>102178742
Yes, it proves that Kentaro Miura refers to Femto as Griffith, thus Griffith and Femto are the same
>>
>>102178469
A couple reasons. As part of a larger plan to create a compatible vessel to inhabit, and because he saw Casca as something Guts had taken away from him, and being the possessive jerk he is, he made a really big fucking deal of "taking it back." Finally, thinking of how he may have had to rely on Casca, who he elevated, hurt his pride. So it was also sort of a ritual of him taking back his manhood.

There were a lot of seething feelings leading up to that scene from Griffith's point of view.
>>
>>102178054
Gaiseric didn't sacrifice his kingdom, it was the priest he locked in the tower (probably Void).

Since Causality is a spiral, it was probably pretty similar to Griffith's Eclipse. Void sacrificed the kingdom, Gaiseric included, but Gaiseric survived some how and became an apostle hunter himself, stumbled on the Berserker armor and eventually turned into the Skull Knight. Guts is on this path, as Zodd and Flora said.
>>
>>102178954
If he was planning on revealing later that Griffith retains nothing of his former self, and that he's actually a total monster, he would keep Griffith's true nature a secret for the time being. You're putting too much stock in what Miura is currently willing to tell us. It's like you've never seen an author subvert their audience's expectations.
>>
>>102178952
"Those who get caught up with demonkind" is VERY vague. She was talking to the count, so maybe it meant those who ally with demons.
>>102178954
They have the same memories and body, but clearly a different personality. It's stated outright in the manga.
>>
>>102179091
That's pretty heavy implication that Gutts is going to hell to throw aside as a "Well maybe he meant something completely different." Not to mention the deformed guy who hated the count earlier was part of the demonic 'arm' that took him to hell. He was not an apostle nor an ally of demons, simply one caught in another demons ambitions.
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>>102179167
And also Gutts was being pulled into hell.
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>>102179091
And those who get sacrificed get caught up with demonkind as well.

Fucking Griffith apologists, I swear you fags just don't know when to quit.
>>
Griffith gonna rock yo body, gurl. Gonna rock yo body.

>>102179091
It's not that vague, really. Consider that Vargas, the count's doctor, was also drawn into the vortex upon death. He wasn't a brand, nor was he allied with demons. He associated with them and studied the occult, and that was enough.

Those that are apostles, those tainted by apostles, those that are sacrifices, and those that get caught up in the affairs of either side are doomed to that fate. The only exception thus far that we've seen is the sorceress, Flora.
>>
>>102179167
Or maybe everyone who dies with inner turmoil goes to hell regardless, and since all Apostles are pretty much tragedy personified they all fall under that category. There's not enough evidence to support the belief that anyone who even touches or talks to a demon ends up in hell. That's a really crazy assumption based on a vague statement directed towards the Count.
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>>102179276
Delusion out the ass man
>>
>>102176471
>Even as an apostle, I doubt Guts could do much
Well he does carry around a bag full of behelits. He might not become just any old apostle if he activates them all. [spoler]Maybe he'll eat them and become a Skull Knight[/spoiler:lit]
>>
>>102177854
It's like how Bruce Willis sees his dads watch in Pulp Fiction.
>>
>>102178762
Eclipse is every 216 years, bro. It's like you haven't even read every page on the wiki. >>102178742
For someone who constantly tells people to reread scenes because they didn't interpret it as Griffith being the best person ever, you not wanting to refresh one the most important world building section of Berserk is astounding.
>>
>>102179302
It doesn't mean talk to or touches. It means those branded and those who become demonkind, and there is ridiculous evidence to support that.
>>102179313
>>102179276
>>102179271
>>
>>102179167
>>102179276
>>102179283
Vargas doesn't necessarily prove something. There could be many reasons why someone would go to hell, and "getting caught up with demonkind" is only one of them. This is only a theory, not an affirmation.

By the way, do we even know what happens to people who die and don't go to hell?
>>
>>102179276
This part where Guts finds god hand again is what made me love berserk
>>
>>102179313
Vargas wasn't even sacrificed. He was just killed by a demon.

Damn, think of all the people who died when Griffith thrust the world into darkness and how they're all in hell right now. What an evil shithead.
>>
>>102179382
That's not evidence. Vargas wasn't branded or a demon.
>>
>>102179384
It's never confirmed, but there is a difference between hell and wherever else they go. Either way Griffith damned his friends to eternal suffering.
>>102179425
He was severely deformed by a demon though. He was working for a demon at some point, and apostle of an apostle.
>>
>>102179361
>It's like you haven't even read every page on the wik
Man it's been a long time, gimme a break.

I guess that fucks up the Void ascension theory then
>>
>>102179276
Don't try to turn this discussion into a battle between sides. If you're going to ignore the actual arguments being given and just vehemently restate that everyone who disagrees with you is an apologist, then the only delusional one here is you.
>>
>>102179536
And yet you provide no evidence and continue to name call the same as him.
>>
>>102179536
What's the argument? Whether Griffith is evil or not?

He's evil.
>>
>>102179487
There's never been a confirmed 'somewhere else'. For all we know there's nothing but hell, and everyone ends up there no matter how they die.
>>
>>102179355
>Well he does carry around a bag full of behelits.
No he doesn't. The only behelit Guts has is the one used in the Count's ascension, so just the one. The person that was collecting them was the Skull Knight.
>>
>>102179355
Maybe. It would be interesting how he would look like as one. I'm guessing he'd get the form of a wolf?
>>102179357
I haven't watched that movie.
>>102179361
It's not that I don't want to re-read it again, it's just that I can't read it all in a few seconds or minutes, which I'd need to do if I wanted to both know the information and keep arguing here.

By the way:
>to reread scenes because they didn't interpret it as Griffith being the best person ever
That's a pretty dishonest way to put it.
>>
>>102179536
What are you talking about? He just gave solid proof, he's not ignoring jack shit.

He's just calling out Griffith apologists as the deluded bullshitters that they are.
>>
>>102179587
That post wasn't apart of the discussion, why would it contain evidence relating to it? That post was to warn him that people with his attitude ruin discussions like these by turning it into baseless shit flinging.
>>
Griffith is absolutely evil.
He lies to himself about his goals.
>>
>>102179707
By doing the exact same thing, except with absolutely nothing to add? Good idea. Thats how you stop shit flinging, by shit flinging.
>>
>>102179629
Really? I thought he was collecting them from the major apostles he killed during the black swordsman arc.

Shit, I'm forgetting all kinds of details. This story is taking too long
>>
>>102179613
>There's never been a confirmed 'somewhere else'. For all we know there's nothing but hell, and everyone ends up there no matter how they die.
But that's wrong. It's never suggested that the sorceress Flora went to hell
>>
>>102179629
>>102179811
Didn't he make some speech about hanging on to behelits so they'd never find their way to others and activate?
>>
>>102179762
I didn't do what he did, and what I added was the notion that nobody on either side of the discussion should resort to generalizing and name calling. I said that IF he did those things he'd be as delusional as he claims other people are. You're being extremely disingenuous right now.
>>
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>>102179613
There's been several confirmed somewhere elses. But yeah, everyone does end up in the same place.
>>
>>102179827
It's also not suggested that magic users ever truly die. They can't be used as evidence when it comes to normal deaths. Why would you think a powerful witch is comparable to normal people?
>>
>>102179688
>I haven't watched that movie.

You're not one of those weaboos that is completely disconnected with the western world, are you?


How have you not seen Pulp Fiction? Anyway, longsotry short Bruce Willis' dad is a pow who was forced to carry his watch up his ass for years. He ends up dying and gives the watch to Christopher Walken, who also shoves the watch up his ass in order to keep it hidden from the Vietnamese.

Walken then proceeds to give Bruce Willis his dads watch in an amazing scene that was made for Walken.

Bruce Willis grows up to be a boxer, and after he agrees to throw a match, he goes back on the deal and wins. This gets a crime lord angry and forces Willis to leave town, but he forgets his watch.


Any sane person would have cut their losses, but that was his dads watch, so he goes back. Rest of the movie shows Willis going to extreme lengths in order to get his watch back.


You should see it. People often compare it to Baccano!.
>>
>>102180051
That's only one section of an overarching story that connects together.
>>
>>102179998
Well, the idea of evil isn't canon anymore, so maybe the realms aren't like this anymore
>>
>>102179888
No. Guts has never taken a Behelit besides the one which belonged to the Count. The reason he took it wasn't to prevent another apostle from being born, but quite the opposite: he wants to find the trick to activating it so that he can summon The Five and kill them all.

Unless you mean Skull Knight? I don't remember him stating that. His reasons for collecting them were also primarily to kill The Five. If he wanted to prevent the birth of apostles it was a secondary goal.
>>
>>102180116
Did you expect me to explain each characters story and how everyone of them somehow connects to the other?

Anon, you expect too much of me.
>>
>>102180139
The chapter where the Idea of Evil appeared isn't canon, the character itself is canon till Miura says otherwise or his following version of the Idea of Evil works differently than he showed 16 years ago.
>>
>>102180212
I was stating it so he understood that it's only a small part of an amazing movie.
I personally like Reservoir Dogs better though
>>
>>102180051
>You're not one of those weaboos that is completely disconnected with the western world, are you?


>How have you not seen Pulp Fiction?
No. It's just that it's very hard for me to find the motivation to watch/read fiction in general. Berserk and Watamote are the only ones I watched and read in the past 2 years.

But I don't see how that's related to Griffith at all. He knew his band weren't objects.
>>
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>>102180272
>16 years ago
Jesus Christ. Hurry the fuck up Miura.
>>
>>102180308
Reservoir Dogs was awesome too. If I had to choose I'd probably have to side with Pulp Fiction though if not just because how iconic it is. It's a shame Reservoir Dogs wasn't as much of a commercial success as his other films. Now all you need to do is slap Tarantino's name on something and it's an instant box office hit.
>>
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>>102179827
Flora is a special case. She made Guts' brand tingle, if in an odd way. Actually, Flora pretty much states that she is an Ethereal being a few pages later. She tells Guts that his brand allows him to feel Ethereal beings, and he can feel something when around her.
Also, we can't forget that she's as old as SK, she is as far from a normal human as you can get.
>>
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>>102180001
Bah, you said everyone. Not just "normal people."

Though yes, it's suggested that magic users persist in another form upon mortal death. Schierke is still pretty upset though. Chin up, buttercup.

It seems vaguely suggested that those that are not sacrificed and have no contact with demons whatsoever don't wind up in hell though. The narrative treats it like an especially woeful fate. If its the fate nearly everyone shares regardless of any factors then why do they make it out to be an especially bad thing?
>>
>>102180422
He sees them as possessions is the point I'm trying to get at. Current Griffith is only pre-eclipse Griffith, but with this ideology to the extreme. He sees them as chess pieces, and no longer cares for them on any level.
>>
>>102180442
Miura is the japanese George R.R. Martin.
>>
>>102180649
She was keeping herself alive through some magic involving that ancient tree, was she not? Something along the lines of, as long as this tree is here my dusty old ass will be here too. Then when the tree burned she turned into a friggin' fire genie. Blew Grunbeld the fuck out, she did.
>>
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>>102180795
>Current Griffith is only pre-eclipse Griffith, but with this ideology to the extreme. He sees them as chess pieces, and no longer cares for them on any level.
I guess that I could agree with that. But that doesn't mean that he was evil before, though. He DID feel love and care for his men before. Remember that using a behelit does change you for the worse morally.
>>
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>>102180795
Yup. Only one thing stirs Mister Griffith's emotions now. I bet it'll be the weakness that kills him. Again. That feel when killed by feels.
>>
>>102181060
Of course, or else the eclipse would have never worked.
>>
>>102181177
I didn't remember that part. Interesting...
>>102181195
I'm glad that we agree, then.
>>
So theres going to be a new chapter this year right?
>>
>>102181195
Well, he loved his Band of the Hawk more than anything, this is true. They were his greatest treasure. Just try to keep in mind that love can mean different things to different people.
>>
>>102181177
What if the moonchild is actually pre-eclipse Griffith? The irony of Griffith being killed by his rape baby is too sweet to pass up.
>>
>>102181331
He was also madly in love with Guts.
>>
All the Berserk threads recently have been about Griffith. It's been so long since I've analyzed Guts with anyone ;_;
>>
>>102181428
No.
>>
>>102181353
The moonchild has black hair, Griffith always had white hair.
>>
>>102181353
Well, seems it's been heavily suggested that moonboy is the avatar of the Fairy King. I don't think they'd throw that speculation out there in-universe if it wasn't going to amount to anything.

But yeah, one of the working theories is that moonboy is what the fetus turned into upon rebirth through the Egg Apostle, and that it's basically Griffith's vessel when not being inhabited by Femto. Or something.
>>
>>102181437
yes
>>
>>102181589
Please don't encourage the landwhale. Filter and ignore it. Its delusion is beyond all measure.
>>
>>102181465
Well it's like the fusion of Guts and Griffith.

>Griffith finally lived out his dream of having a child with his husbandu Guts

But if I had to take a serious stance on this theory it's that only the emotions and personality of Griffith made it through. Which is why moonchild has save Guts on numerous occasions without having any reason too.
>>
>>102181589
Prove it.
>>102181638
I'm not a landwhale. I'm underweight. By the way, filtering is pretty dumb, it only makes threads harder to understand for you. It's not like I'm spamming or something.
>>
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>>102181428
He did love Guts. Guts occupied a very special place in Griffith's heart (No, I don't mean romantically, okay >>102181437?)

However he loved his Band far more than he loved any one person, even Guts. The Band was his treasure and the key to realizing his dreams. Both figuratively and...literally...

Guts was an important part of that larger whole, but he did not eclipse the whole, otherwise he alone would have been the sacrifice.
>>
>>102181437
It is possible. His homoerotic tendencies and unclear sexuality could mean there was some latent homolust on his end of the relationship
>>
>tfw Berserk threads invaded by some shitty landwhale who was originally chased out because she didn't even both to read the manga.
Welp.
Time to start a dox process.
>>
>>102181715
I think it's safest to assume that Griffith is asexual.
>>
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>>102181692
Love, nigger.
Just because your emotional retard of a husbando didn't understand how he felt, doesn't mean he didn't feel it.
>inb4 he was in love with Casca
>inb4 Casca didn't really love Guts
>>
>>102181666
But Griffith wanted to kill Guts. That's part of what pushed him over the edge in the Eclipse was that he was mad that his feelings for Guts made him forget his dream.
The old theory was that it was Guts and Casca's child or a manifestation of it. That's why Casca was always so attached to him and why even Guts felt drawn to him.
The Avatar of the Elf King was just postulation from Schierke, but it's the first official word we've had at all to what the kid is.
We won't know anything for certain until they get off the boat.
>>
>>102181692
>Prove it.
Don't do that, you'll be arguing with a mountain of evidence that Griffith was more obsessed with Guts than any one person, and then there's the way he thought of nothing but Guts while fucking Princess Charlotte.

For the record, I don't think the man's necessarily gay, but he sure has some strange priorities.
>>
>>102181762
>asexual.
I doubt it.
Bisexual is far more likely.
" lack of sexual attraction to anyone or low or absent interest in sexual activity"
Fucked the princess.
>>
>>102181704
Are you that one femanon from that one thread?
>>
>>102181704
>He did love Guts. Guts occupied a very special place in Griffith's heart (No, I don't mean romantically, okay >>102181437 (You)?)
Then I agree with you. It's clear he liked him a lot, no question about it.
>>102181715
Yes, it's "possible". It's also "possible" that he was a zoophile. But there's no proof of that, so until there is, it's just wrong.
>>102181724
>originally chased out because she didn't even both to read the manga.
What are you talking about exactly?
>>102181775
Notice how "love" and "lust" are nowhere in his list.
>>inb4 Casca didn't really love Guts
I never said that.
>>102181821
>Don't do that, you'll be arguing with a mountain of evidence
I'm used to it and I'm not scared. I know pretty much everything there is to know about Griffith.
>>
Shitty Landwhale opinions.
>Guts only beat Griffith because he was lucky
>Griffith loved Casca
>Griffith did nothing wrong
>>
>>102181724
If you disagree with them you should express your reasons why and add to the discussion. If you don't want to do that but still want a Berserk thread, you could always make a new one. This thread's topic is whether or not Griffith was evil. A discussion wouldn't be possible without at least one person representing an alternative viewpoint.
>>
>>102181724
She supposedly picked up Berserk in the last two years >>102180422 , yet she believes that her understandings are the end all be all. Lucky fucking cunt hasn't let everything pasteurize. Even forgets huge characterization on her favorite character >>102181260
>>
>>102181909
Because she makes this retarded thread all the time.
She has nothing to contribute on any relevant story purpose and just masturbates about Griffith in V4-12.
She also samefags like a motherfucker and is clearly ignorant on basic storytelling principles.
>>
>>102181775
Casca was only and accessory to Griffith. Remember, Guts was the ONLY person who ever followed Griffith that Griffith asked to come. Everyone else followed him from his charm and natural charisma. Remember when he saved Casca from getting raped? He was really just robbing the rich guy's cart and managed to save her as a bonus. When she was offering herself to come with him, remember what he said? Just "Do as you wish."
He wasn't going to stop her from coming with him but he was doing nothing to encourage her.
Casca points out when Guts comes along that he was the only person that Griffith ever wanted. In his army. And he beat Guts in a fight and claimed him as his property to get him there. Emotions got complicated over the years, but he still wasn't above claiming himself Guts' owner to try to make him stay. Which only worsened the blow when Guts finally beat him. Leading to him running to Charlotte.
>>102181861
Rebound sex after his boy toy walked out on him and slapped him down, teaching him how far Guts had surpassed him.
>>
>>102181985
>>102181967
At least its using a tripcode now and can be filtered as is fitting a creature of its status.
>>
>>102181879
>What are you talking about exactly?
Don't bullshit.
The first few times you expressed your shitty opinions, you hadn't even read more than 15 volumes.
And
"I never said that."
Is complete bullshit. You abandoned that argument after being confronted with the astounding levels of hate it received.
>>
>>102182003
>Rebound sex
An asexual person doesn't really do "rebound sex"
>>
>>102181797
>The ride never ends!

It would be pretty weird in my opinion if Moonchild wasn't Guts and Casca's (and Griffith's) kid. Also didn't someone say that the child was going to be evil or something? It's been so long I might need to go through the series again.
>>
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>>102181775
I think he was in love with both of them, just moreso with Guts. He had that daydream about marrying her, so he must've felt something for her. His love for Guts though was crippling and obsessive, much like that of a crazed lover.

He's a weird guy and it's hard to know any of his feelings for certain.

>>102181861
It was a power thing when he fucked her. Attraction wasn't the important factor there. Hell, he curled into a ball of self loathing after doing the deed.
>>
>>102181985
These threads would be fucking terrible if it was just you fags patting each other on the back for hating Griffith. The point of a discussion is to hear points from all sides, and to actually LISTEN to what other people are saying, instead of immediately dismissing everyone who doesn't agree with you as a member of the super secret Griffith defense force.
>>
>>102182102
>Also didn't someone say that the child was going to be evil
Well.
It's connection with Griffith is pretty indisputable.
But it's also really unclear as to the childs true nature.
Plus, Schierke's moronic rambling about shit she doesn't really know about doesn't help.
>>
>>102181861
>>102182003
Don't forget he also jumped on Casca. He clearly likes women sexually. >>102178956
>>102181901
Those are all true.
>>102181967
Femto isn't my favorite character. I didn't read that part as many times as the Golden Age.
>>102181985
I can swear two things to everyone here: I've never samefagged, and I never made a thread about Berserk in the last month, including this one. I just jump in them when I see them and reply to posts.
>>102182034
>Don't bullshit.
The first few times you expressed your shitty opinions, you hadn't even read more than 15 volumes.

>Is complete bullshit. You abandoned that argument after being confronted with the astounding levels of hate it received.

Can you prove either of those claims? I think that you're confusing me with someone else. Go find those posts in the archive. If they really are from me, I swear that I will be honest and admit it.
>>
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>>102181901
>Griffith is stronger than Guts, he cut off Zodd's arm when Guts couldn't do anything
Griffith joined the fight very late, after Zodd was wounded by Guts and the many arrows that soldiers put into his back. Guts was also severely wounded before Griffith even got there, and Guts still was able to draw a large amount of blood from Zodd's throat, something that she seems to forget. Guts wasn't going for anything easy to cut off.
Also, in this page Guts kills a guy by almost chopping him in half, but Casca is able to cut off another guy's head. I guess this means that Casca is stronger than Guts.
>>
>>102182178
Don't try anon.
In the whales eyes, Griffith is the super strongest sue of all time and can do nothing wrong.
>>102182159
>Those are all true.
God, you're retarded.
>>
>>102182178
But Guts has cut off a ridiculous amount of heads
>>
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>>102181879
>It's also "possible" that he was a zoophile. But there's no proof of that, so until there is, it's just wrong.
There's a lot more evidence suggesting the possibility of Griffith being gay than Griffith fucking goats.

Your best bet here is to say that maybe Griffith was gay, maybe he wasn't. There is a reason it was never stated outright. The author only skirted around the very edges of that possibility, leaving it open to interpretation. This was done on purpose, so feel free to interpret it however you want. This is how I interpret it: blah blah blah and so on.
>>
>>102182077
He's not asexual. He's just emotionally stunted.
>>
>>102181861
He only fucked her because he felt like he had to. He never did it because he was attracted to her or anything.

Griffith has never had sexual interaction with anyone in the series unless it serves him a purpose. I just feel like he isn't really attracted to anyone. If I had to choose one though, a gay/bi Griffith seems more likely than anything.
>>
How the hell did Griffith get like this anyway? What the hell was his childhood like and why was he the leader of a band of mercenaries at like 16?
>>
>>102182357
He got the red Behelit when he was really young and told it was the Egg of the King and he was destined to rule one day. So he set out to make his dreams come true and it turned out he was really good at it.
>>
>>102182357
I'm pretty sure the God hand intervened in his early years and convinced him he was destined for greater things and to try and take the throne
>>
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>>102182178
>Griffith joined the fight very late, after Zodd was wounded by Guts and the many arrows that soldiers put into his back.
This is meaningless. Zodd wasn't wounded significantly, especially not on his arms. On top of that, it's shown he regenerates.

>Guts was also severely wounded before Griffith even got there
This, however, I admit is a good point. Guts would have been more tired at the moment. Still, Griffith did cut off an apostle's entire army, complete with hair, flesh, muscles and bone, in only on hit, with a small sword... He was very strong.
>>102182253
There's also more evidence pointing to him being straight. With fucking women and fantasizing about them, and being disgusted at gay sex.
>>102182266
I think that he liked Charlotte, although he wasn't really "in love" with her.
>>102182357
I wish we had more info on his life in general.
>>
There is no one in the Berserk world that can hold Griffith to a standard other than his own.

The Idea of Evil, God itself, told him he's free to do whatever he wants because he's been predestined to be in a position to do so.

He can't be anything other than Big Good.
>>
>>102182239
>That's the joke
Gutts defeated many strong opponents, including Griffith, but supposedly Guts only beat Griffith because he got lucky.
>>
>>102182636
Please stop pretending the landwhale knows anything about what it speaks.
>>
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>>102182141
Oh my God, this. I hate it when these threads devolve into a circlejerking Griffith lynchmob. Such a good character deserves more substantive discussion than the pissing and moaning of an angry mob.

>>102182143
>>102182102
This is the most direct insinuation we've gotten as to moonboy's true nature, as narrated in-universe by our authority on the supernatural. It may be only speculation on Schierke's part, but the way it's framed seems like heavy foreshadowing on the part of the author, Kentaro Miura. At this time I don't see why he'd put this information out there and then not go anywhere with it.

As an aside, if moonboy IS an ancient immortal elf, he's a fucking pervy little bastard. The way he was soaking up all those Casca cuddles the way he was. Must have been having a grand old time smushed against her chest.
>>
>>102182159
>Those are all true.
I'll address at least one.
>Griffith was just unlucky in his fight with Guts.
The facts.
Griffith had been directly in combat less than Guts in the past few years.
Guts was commander of the Raiders, a position that places him at the very forefront of the most difficult fighting.
Griffith admits that he might not be able to parry his attacks anymore.
Implying that he felt confident about them before, despite the size of Guts sword being the same.
Griffith admits that the strike he's using against Guts cannot be held back in order to be effectively used.
He also admits that he knows no other technique that could be used to beat Guts now.
The technique relies on Griffith being able to deflect Guts' blade.
Key point. A correct deflection would not cause a sword to break.

They move to strike, and Griffith's deflection was done incorrectly, allowing too much force to be transmitted to his blade, snapping it.
Guts' holds back his strike, simply bruising Griffiths shoulder.
Key point on that. Griffith was required to go ALL out with his move.
Guts' apparently was not required to hold back during his.

The overall facts clearly place Guts at a higher level, in regards to both skill and physically ability.
Griffith wasn't "unlucky" Griffith's single opportunity for victory was rendered moot by his opponents superior strength and speed.
>>
>>102182578
What are the odds that the final baddy will be God/Idea of Evil?


Something tells me that Miura might end this Asura's Wrath style.
>>
>>102182714
The Idea of Evil chapter was taken back because Miura regretted giving away so much. We don't know if it will ever be relevant.
>>
>>102182556
Out of all the people he's used, I think Charlotte is one of those he's had no actual feelings towards beyond "she's a nice girl". She was clearly just another stepping stone for his ascension. Maybe he'd actually get to care for her like he did for his companions, but she just wasn't around long enough. Now he has no soul and can't actually care at all anymore
>>
>>102182704
Stop samefagging you fucking landwhale.
>>
>>102182704
>Such a good character deserves more substantive discussion than the pissing and moaning of an angry mob.
Yeah, too bad the landwhale will only acknowledge a very small part of said character.
>>
>>102182704
Man, Shierke really does talk a lot of shit about things she has no idea about
>>
>>102182704
>he's a fucking pervy little bastard

Considering the personalities of Puck and Evarella, this doesn't seem that far fetched at all.


Also it's more of a lynch mob that's intended for the Griffith apologists.
>>
>>102182266
See my post here: >>102178956
Particularly the attached picture. What could he have gotten out of forcing himself upon Casca at that juncture? Nothing. He was just butthurt and frustrated.

My point is that sex acts are not necessarily all according to keikaku with Griffith. I believe that having sex with Charlotte and raping Casca in front of Guts had a lot to do with power. Griffith's possessive nature getting the better of him.
>>
>>102182713
Also, Griffith's fight with Zodd also shines more light on Guts' superior strength and speed.
Guts spends a significant amount of time fighting Zodd, besting his human form.
He then trades blows with his apostle form, continuing to get up despite his many injuries.
Griffith goes down in a single hit and stays down.
>>
>>102182997
Ding! Griffith claimed Guts was his possession, and when his possession beat him, he needed some sort of affirmation that he still had power over someone else. That someone being his Royal Meal Ticket.
>>
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>>102182713
Griffith participated in all battles too, at the front.

>Griffith admits that he might not be able to parry his attacks anymore.
Because his sword is too weak.

>Implying that he felt confident about them before, despite the size of Guts sword being the same.
Because Guts got stronger.

>He also admits that he knows no other technique that could be used to beat Guts now.
No technique that could be done without killing him.

>Key point. A correct deflection would not cause a sword to break.
The deflection was performed correctly. Griffith goes "GOOD!!" when the blades it, hinting it went well. Then the sword breaks, not because he did it wrong, but because the metal just isn't strong enough for Guts' strength.

>Guts' holds back his strike, simply bruising Griffiths shoulder.
He didn't hold bad his strike. He just stopped it after breaking the blade. When he hit the blade, it was at full force.

>>102182771
I think that this was true until she saved his life. Then he liked her as something more, because she proved she was really nice and devoted to him, as well as not a coward.
>>102182786
That wasn't me. I don't samefag.
>>102183020
>Griffith goes down in a single hit and stays down.
It was a hit at full force and close range from Zodd's tail, which sent him flying and hitting his head on a stone pillar.
>>
>>102183020
That's more a nod to Gut's insane constitution and endurance than his speed or strength.
>>
>>102182997
I wonder if Griffith even understands himself sometimes.

>There's not a person alive who could understand my sexual preference!
>>
>>102183154
I find it highly unlikely he does, or else this whole series wouldn't have turned out as it did
>>
>>102183191
Griffith was just never as emotionally strong as he likes to think he is.
>>
>>102183225
That's very true.
>>
>>102183068
He thought the strike was good because he underestimated how much stronger Guts had become. Serpico deflects DRAGON SLAYER later on with a thinner blade, too. Griffith underestimated Guts and lost.
>>
>>102171979
>murders his best friends who are blindly loyal to him just to accomplish an incredibly vain goal

no hes actually a good guy really im serious
>>
>>102183270
>Serpico deflects DRAGON SLAYER later on with a thinner blade, too.
Can you show me the page?
>>
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>>102182786
Uh? Dude, I'm not that !Hawk trip person if that's what you're implying.

>>102182811
I hate it when Griffith is whitewashed, too. The guy is a villainous bastard and that's part of what makes him so interesting. There's more to him than even that, though. Lots of mystery and intrigue, and a cold, yet understandable logic behind all of his actions. Not to mention he is the primary force (along with Casca) that drives the plot. Griffith IS Berserk, as much as Guts or anyone else. If you love Berserk, you love (to hate) Griffith!

>>102182863
Maybe, maybe not. You see that comment she made about traversing "hidden paths across vast spaces"? This happened later that same chapter. VERY heavy handed foreshadowing, bro.
>>
>>102183068
>It was a hit at full force and close range from Zodd's tail, which sent him flying and hitting his head on a stone pillar.
As opposed to being smashed with a several hundred pound "club" and being punches into the face?
AFTER being pummeled previously by Zodd?
Guts still stood up.
Also, key point of what Griffith says.
He says that he might not even be able to parry his attacks.
THEN he says that even if he could manage, his sword wouldn't last.
So basically, Griffith wasn't even sure that he could keep up with Guts in the first place.
He KNEW he was outclassed.
"No technique that could be done without killing him."
Not this shit again. Griffith acknowledged that the technique was risky as fuck against Guts.
It's not like he had a billion other moves he could have used,
He needed a move that could take him out in a single hit.
You seem to think that Griffith had other options during the fight.
He didn't.
This was a "Hopefully I can take him out quick because if I don't he'll royally fuck me"
>>
Why is there a tripfag dedicated to having shitty opinions about Berserk?
>>
>>102183326
It was a thrust, and Serpico planned it out knowing that forcing Guts into that area would limit his options greatly and allow him to better predict his movements and attacks. I also wouldn't say he deflected it, as much as he pushed off the sword in order to move HIMSELF aside. It's not like he threw the Dragonslayer back with force and knocked Guts off balance or anything. Some people really like to try and pump Serpico's raw strength up unnecessarily.

Gimme a sec, I'll find the page if someone else doesn't post it before me.
>>
>>102174631
I love how no one has a rebuttal for that line about how things might've been different if he'd just kept his hands off Caska.

Well, being marked, they would have been on the run forever and a day...but it might not quite have been as serious if he just.
kept.
his fucking.
hands.
to himself.

But he didn't. He couldn't help himself. And now it's happening on more levels of reality than we could ever imagine....eventually, anyway.
>>
>>102183445
Because it's a landwhale who thinks its husbando is perfect in every way and refuses to acknowledge that he's evil.
See >>102173516 for everything you need to know about it.
>>
>>102183459
Damn that was quick. First page of the first volume I checked.
>>
>>102183270
This.
Griffith completely fucked up.
It's a fight he really had no chance of winning.
>>
>>102171979
Yes, obviously. Griffith is evil, Femto is double evil. They can have the best of intentions but the end can't justify the means. He's killed thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, led to a direct drop in the quality of life for quite literally everything everywhere, and to top it all off he decided to get vengeance on his best friend by raping and mindbreaking his girlfriend, then trying to kill him all because the guy LEFT.

There was nothing good in Griffith. He was greedy, prideful, and full of wrath. Everything he ever did he did for his own ends. Femto is still Griffith, it's just Griffith with everything he really wanted. That's the point of the Behelit. It doesn't make you evil. It makes you what you really are.

The real question is whether or not Griffith made the right decision to give in to the Behelit. Could anyone in his situation reasonably done anything different?
>>
>>102183549
Ok.
Where did you get that scan.
The bakabt torrent doesn't have them.
Dr. Anon scans only go up to 25.
>>
>>102183549
Let's be honest though.
A thrust from 23 year old Armored Guts SURELY must have been faster than a blow from 18 year old Guts (Before he spent a year training and 4 more years murdering apostles)
>>
>>102183326
Unfortunately can't remember exactly where it is.Hopefully this guy>>102183459 can help you.

Also, that's essentially what Griffith was trying to do. Griffith never intended to fully stop Guts' sword, just move it out of the way enough for him to strike.

Serpico essentially does the same thing but against a sword that is considerably heavier.
>>
>>102183562
He could have died and let himself be taken to Hell for all eternity in a selfless sacrifice to save the people he cared about. But he didn't. He chose himself over everyone else, including his homogay best boytoy.
>>
Holy shit you people are stupid.
Did you fail grade school english?
The fucking PURPOSE OF THE SCENE WAS TO SHOW THAT GUTS HAD SURPASSED GRIFFITH.
>>
>>102183617
A thrust has significantly less force put behind it than a downwards slash.
>>
>>102183549
Best part about that fight is that if Guts had both his hands and was wearing his Black Swordsman gear, Serpico most likely would have beaten him.
He quite efficiently negated nearly all of Guts' offensive advantages while maximizing his own.
>>
He serves an entity called "The Idea of Evil."
I don't know. Maybe?
>>
>>102183730
In general, yes.
But not here.
Griffith was dealing with a roughly 20lb blade.
Serpico was dealing with a 450lb blade being used by a SIGNIFICANTLY quicker and more powerful wielder.
>>
>>102183549
Serpico looks fucking sick in this fight.


Anyway, the point of bringing this up was that Serpico was able to accommodate for Guts' strength. Griffith could not and as a result was left lying in defeat.
>>
>>102183738
I dunno, Guts guessed what Serpico's game was and swapped hands on his grip. If he had had both of his hands that tactic wouldn't have worked, but I'm sure Guts would have enough experience to work something else out.
>>
>>102183549
No, seriously, where did you get those scans?
>>
>>102183440
Ok, fine. Guts was the better fighter at the time. Happy?
>>102183445
I was tired of being confused with other people. Also, I'm gonna keep this trip for other threads and boards too.
>>102183459
>>102183549
A trust is completely different because of gravity, among other factors.
>>102183538
I never said he was perfect in every ways. If he were, he would be boring. His flaws are part of him, and I accept them with love too.
>>
>>102183797
What about the strikes Serpico landed at his head/neck/chest that were blocked by the armor and his hand?
Serpico admits in the fight that he has almost no places to strike at due to the armor.
>>
>>102183649
He chose THE DREAM, which some weird gestalt aspiration of everyone which he uses to justify all the fucked up shit he's done. In his mind it's a selfless pursuit that valdiates everything. He's crazy and wrong, but that's how he sees it.
>>
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>>102183618
Yeah but it was still Serpico's trap, aaaand it didn't even work! So there's that. Griffith fought Guts head up, no gaming the field for an advantage. And Griffith lost too, so there's also that.

>>102183617
You yourself said the sword he used today was heavier than the greatsword he used back then. The dragonslayer isn't really designed for thrusting either, nor does Guts' swordsmanship focus much on thrusting attacks. Serpico knew this and took as much advantage as he possibly could to try to weaken and then dispatch Guts. Give credit where credit is due: Serpico's mind is a steel trap, his physical talents are secondary.

Though I don't know if even his tactical genius could surpass that of Griffith. In terms of strength and swordsmanship, I have my own opinion on that as well. I believe we differ there, sir.
>>
>>102183810
>A trust is completely different because of gravity, among other factors.
Look.
Admittedly, a thrust is slightly slower and less powerful in general.
But when the attacker is 4 years more experienced, much stronger and faster, using magical armor that enhances his abilities AND is using a sword that weighs about half as much as a fucking CAR, you can conclude that the thrust is the more dangerous attack, comparatively.
>>
>>102183810
>Ok, fine. Guts was the better fighter at the time. Happy?


In unrelated news, Hell just froze over.
>>
>>102183841
True. Serpico is a fantastic fighter who picks apart his opponents carefully and surgically. Guts is no slouch and would probably approach Serpico differently if he didn't have all the advantages of his Berserker Armor.
Alas, the outcome of that will forever be speculation unless something strange happens when they get off the boat.
>>
>>102183887
I think that on the small scale, Serpico is a better tactician.
Both times Griffith fought Guts he was taken by surprise because he failed to consider something.
Serpico handles surprises like that to a much better extent, and adapts to changing situations with more ease.
On the tactical big scale, Griffith would wipe the floor with him.
I doubt Serpico has even commanded anything larger than a small group of spoiled children.
>>
>>102183928
>Please let something strange happen once they get off the boat.

I love every single time these two badasses square off against each other. Serpico is a brilliant tactician and Guts has both raw ability and a shit ton of experience. Their fights make up some of the most entertaining moments of Berserk for me.
>>
>>102183581
>>102183807
Umm, give me a sec. Shit I'm not really sure anymore where I got those scans. I think it was bakabt. I still have the torrent seeding, and the only tracker links to there.
>>
>>102183897
>you can conclude that the thrust is the more dangerous attack, comparatively.
No. Especially not with the way it was deflected. At most it would have removed a part of Serpico's hand guard (is that how they're called in English?).
>>102183902
It genuinely hurt to admit it. I felt something in my throat and chest. I think it was the beginning of a panic attack (you'll know what I mean if you ever had one before), but thankfully it stopped shortly after.
>>102183928
Yes, Serpico is really awesome. If it weren't for Griffith, I'd pick him.
>>
>>102184018
Griffith's ego gets in the way when in personal conflicts. He's simply incapable of being realistic with himself
>>
>>102184018
If he was trained in the art of war however, he'd be a force to be reckoned with. I think this is the direction the series may be going for Serpico. They need to beat Griffith on a personal and a political level, and that includes Griffith's army.
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>>102184035
It's the mutual respect kinda deal.
Guts most likely hadn't had any level of difficulty with humans for years.
Also, anyone else notice that Guts gets fucking cut on his cheek like 40 fucking times over the course of the series?
>>
>>102184074
Baka's apparently do go up to 37.
http://bakabt.me/162057-berserk-scans.html
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>>102173075
/Thread
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>>102184077
No.
I'm saying that the thrust was more difficult to avoid and overall more dangerous than the strike that shit all over Griffith.
If Serpico had fucked up the dodge or slide in any way, he would have died. That much force, at that speed would he the equivalent of a serious car accident.
>>
>>102184128
Well, it's a bit of a cliche to have that happen to show a "close call." Thought I do like how Miura handles it since you can see all the scars on his cheeks from all his close calls.
>>
>>102184153
Thanks.
The last one I downloaded had a fair amount of hawkscan trash mixed in, but included stuff from the artbooks.
>>
>>102184180
I never denied any of that. I was just talking about swords breaking.

By the way, there's no way that the dragonslayer is 450lb if his other sword was 20lb. Just think about it. It would mean you could fit 20 of the swords into the dragonslayer, assuming they were made of the same stuff.
>>
>>102184128
You'd think he would have amassed a considerable amount of scar tissue. Luckily he can only get a new scar if it makes him look cooler. Character design is funny like that.
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>>102184192
He looks like he has whiskers.
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>>102184264
FUCK YOU! NOW I JUST SEE NARUTO WHISKERS! FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FFUCK FUCK FIYUFCHVFUJFJISP{"Q
>>
>>102184244
>It would mean you could fit 20 of the swords into the dragonslayer, assuming they were made of the same stuff.
You could.
We've done the math.
I can grab it if you want.
We also know that the tip of the dragonslayer is moving at nearly 90mph at the apex of a swing.
>>
>>102171979
Does a bear shit in the woods?
>>
>>102184302
I don't need to see the math since I can see the swords, and can imagine them being put inside the dragonslayer, and 20 of them don't fit inside.
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>>102184253
Maybe it's the elf dust that's stopping that from happening.
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>>102184128
Well that is the reason his face is beginning to resemeble the textures of a dirt road
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>>102184315
Not always.
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>>102184326
Shit, you're right. I'll be developing Alzheimers before Miura finishes Berserk.
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>>102184322
You don't understand.
You have to consider the tapering of the smaller sword, the fuller causing the blade to contain less material, and Miura's complete inability to draw any sort of sword consistently.
Example.
In this picture, the Dragonslayer is roughly 450-600lbs.
>>
>>102184353
It's gotten pretty ridiculous ever since he got the Berserker amour, to the point that I'm thinking that the elf king is going to rejuvenate Guts' body somewhat.
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>>102177303
It's Emperor Gaiseric, the first King of Midland you baka.
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>>102184390
In THIS picture, it's more like 250-300lbs
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>>102184441
In THIS picture, Miura just didn't give a shit
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>>102175075
The funny part is, his Heart begins to stir again when he sees Guts fighting. So it's not completely frozen over.
>>
>>102184421
There was the scene on the boat where he started to lose vision in his good eye. Guts is gonna need some kind of serious bodily repair or he's not gonna last much longer
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>>102184315
No, it's not the real bear who shits in the woods. He was born a different being after the hibernation.
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>>102184390
Please compare with this. They're about the same length (dragonslayer a bit longer), but it should be obvious to anyone that the sword isn't thin enough to fit 20 times in...
>>
>>102184485
Losing his hearing, too.
And his sense of taste.
And touch.
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>>102184180
The reason Serpico set up the fight the way he did is because if Guts was forced to thrust, the attacks would be easier to read and avoid. If they'd fought in an open area, Guts would not have preferred thrusts because they are "more dangerous" than swings. He rarely thrusts his sword unless there aren't any good options because he can't put as much power and weight behind the blade. The Dragonslayer is very, very heavy, and thrusting attacks are not its ideal use. They're a lot slower than those wide arcing swings where he can rely on the sword's momentum.

Another thing to note is that Guts was still wounded and worn out when he fought Serpico, but he was fresh when he fought Griffith.

Seriously, Serpico was manipulating this from every possible angle to try and give himself every single advantage. I don't know why people want to compare this setup to the duel with Griffith. Trying to attribute his performance mainly to God tier swordsmanship is an insult to Serpico's devious intellect.
>>
>>102184508
It could be made out of a heavier material though. It IS called the dragon slayer.
>>
>>102184555
That's why I said "assuming they were made of the same stuff". >>102184244
>>
>>102184508
You can't dispute science on this one.
Although I might say that my estimate of Guts' first sword was a bit low.
The Dragonslayers massive weight is primary due it's size and thickness.
A cubic meter of steel weighs about 8 tons, +-1 ton.
The blade is, let's 6 feet long * 1 feet wide * 3 inches thick, maybe a bit less. I'll round down. Let's assume light alloy, 7 tons/m^3.
Metric calculation ahead (1 inch is 2.54cm, but these are all ballpark figures) :
180 cm * 30cm * 7.5cm = 40500 cm^3
1 m^3 = 1000 000 cm^3 -> 40500 cm^3 = 0,0405 m^3
0,0405 m^3 * 7000kg/m^3=283.5 kg or 625 pounds
This is if the DS was a rectangular block.
I say about 450 in order to account for the tapering edge.
But seriously, in real life, it would weigh that much.
I literally move and bend large metal sheets for a living.
A steel sheet of roughly that size and thickness is moved around by the shop crane.
>>
>>102184511
>nose still good
He will sniff after the apostles
>>
>>102184583
My bad, I missed that part.
>>
>>102184514
I like how in the Serpico/Farnese flashbacks it shows Serpico disarming a noble Farnese forced him to duel.
It implies that he got really good at swordfighting because he needed to be good enough to stop all the duels without Serpico having to kill them. (which would have been pretty bad for both of them)
>>
>>102184588
That's actually sort of fitting for someone whose personal demon takes the shape of a rabid dog.
>>
>>102184514
>Seriously, Serpico was manipulating this from every possible angle to try and give himself every single advantage
No shit.
My point is that even with the disadvatges that Guts was under, his attacks would have been MUCH more dangerous than Guts from V8.
Shit, he hadn't even spent a year fighting logs yet.
>>
>>102184481
His vessel's heart, anon. I'm the one who posted that page and he made it pretty clear it was because of Guts Jr's influence. True Griffith is not corporeal, but ethereal, and (supposedly) doesn't have feelings.
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>>102184619
This.
He intentionally would let himself be hit, in order to not embarrass anyone powerful.
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>>102184586
For the record any sword above 20 pounds in weight is already seen as too heavy. Something tells me that Miura didn't give two shits about realism when it came to Dragonslayer.
>>
>>102184586
Look... I'm really bad at math and I can't tell you if you're right or wrong about the weight. BUT I can tell you that if you're right, then it means that the other sword weights more than 20lb. Maybe 40lb?
>>102184602
No problem.
>>102184619
Yeah, it's really awesome how far Serpico is ready to go to protect/please Farnese.
>>
>>102184676
I just realized that his practice is kinda of like how Guts would practice after he lost his eye.
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>>102184683
He admitted he gave Guts a huge sword as just a gimmick. When he first did it, giant swords weren't nearly as cliche as they've become thanks to JRPGs.
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>>102184691
A man can go to great lengths in the name of pleasing his sister
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>>102184691
>then it means that the other sword weights more than 20lb. Maybe 40lb?
Harder to work out the weight for that.
The heaviest swords ever used in real life were called Lowland Claymores.
They were up to ten pounds.
I could probably say that Guts' sword weighed up to 40-50lbs.
Notice how the Lowland blade is much less substantial than the one Guts uses.
>>
>>102184698
I've tried something like that. I collect swords, so I took one out side and tossed a rubber ball into the air and tried stabbing it with only one eye open. Shit is really fucking hard to get used to.
>>
>>102184800
Ah yeah. They're siblings.
>>102184808
>I could probably say that Guts' sword weighed up to 40-50lbs.
As expected from my estimations...
>>102184819
>I collect swords
That's pretty cool. I wish I could collect stuff too.
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>>102184819
Guts logic.
Start with 20 large trees
End with fish.
>>
>>102184619
Really good, yes, but better than Griffith? I dunno about that. I think he makes up the difference in skill with his peerless grasp of battlefield tactics and clever tricks. Griffith was usually too arrogant to bother with that. He thought he was just plain better than everybody and wanted everybody to know it, all of the time. Serpico's fighting style just seems a lot more subtle and devious. Well, until it became magic.

>>102184629
>My point is that even with the disadvatges that Guts was under, his attacks would have been MUCH more dangerous than Guts from V8.
I'm still not sure if I agree with that entirely. Serpico did a really thorough job of screwing over Guts' style to the point where he should have been completely off balance. AND Guts was hurt.

I get the feeling if Griffith at his best during his Band of the Hawk days were the one in that sort of advantageous position, he'd have pulled some off the wall shit like running across the blade of the Dragonslayer or using lolperfect timing and aim and changing the course of the thrust to create an opening.

Why do I think that? Griffith fanboy? Not really. It's just that's the kind of shit Griffith used to do back in the day. Keep in mind that during Golden Age he managed to slice a transformed Zodd's arm off. Could Serpico have done that? Maybe. I don't know. I don't think so. Maybe you do.

I think Serpico is a spectacular fighter but its mainly his brain, not his brawn, that carries him that extra mile into legendary status.
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>>102184866
>Ah yeah. They're siblings.
Half-siblings.
That's almost legal in Alabama.
>>
>>102184893
Well, asking your general to actually fight in a war is a tall order considering he wouldn't be able to shout orders.

Generals are almost always more effective in the back.
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>>102184919
There's no legal and illegal in the berserk world.
>>
>>102184919
I'm ashamed to admit it, but I still wish it would happen. And I wish she'd grow her hair back, too. It was beautiful (except the fringe should be two centimeters longer).
>>
>>102184893
>he'd have pulled some off the wall shit like running across the blade of the Dragonslayer or using lolperfect timing and aim and changing the course of the thrust to create an opening.
He was never THAT good.
>>
>>102184919
I actually hope they bang.

That Jaime Lanister comparison>>102184800
Is starting to really grow on me.

How else is Berserk like Game of Thrones? They sure as hell have a lot more in common than Attack on Titan. Let's discuss the real Game of Thrones of anime.
>>
>>102185016
>Game of Thrones
B-but I don't like Game of Thrones.
>>
>>102184949
Wut?

Griffith did fight on the front lines in some battles. One of the nice things about the Band of the Hawk is that they were sort of hive minded around Griffith and he could get the message across to them from the field if need be, relatively quickly. He also had very dependable commanders in Corkus, Judeau, Pippin, etc.
>>
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>>102184973
He stood on Gut's sword when they first fought. Griffith was DEX 20 in the old days. It'd probably be easier to stand on Dragonslayer. And I entirely expect it to happen when NuGriffith and Guts inevitably fight
>>
>>>102185016
Both are one of the few pieces of medieval fiction that show just how young many knights and medieval fighters were in those days.
>>
>>102185068
That wasn't really running along the blade tier.
The sword wasn't moving, and Griffith stood on it in order to prevent Guts from picking it back up.
It was also dumb as fuck and led to Guts introducing Griffiths nose to his fist.
>>
>>102185016
I've hoped since we first met them, because they clearly care for one another. Also because it's my fetish
>>
>>102185114
It wasn't dumb. Guts just cheated by continuing the fight. He was supposed to give up since Griffith had obviously won, and could have killed him at any time.
>>
>>102185016
Both have important characters losing their hand and learning to fight with a prosthetic.
>>
>>102185147
I wouldn't call it cheating as much as incredibly unconventional. Who the fuck bits a sword and then tumbles face first into the guy holding it?
>>
>>102185191
It's not the biting itself that I call cheating, it's the fact that he didn't give up when he obviously had lost. It's like if you were fencing with somebody, then managed to hit him properly, and he just ignored it and kept on fighting. Guts ignored an unwritten rule of the duel and spat on Griffith's mercy.
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>>102185147
>could have killed him at any time.
But he didn't.
This is Griffiths problem.
And it's where Guts has always been better.
Also, that wasn't the terms at all.
Griffith just told Guts to give up, then Guts meant mental on his ass.
Although, to be fair, Guts being a moron and not following up on his pummeling is why he ended up losing the fight.
The page always makes me smile.
>>
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>>102184973
I remember him doing a lot of off the wall shit whenever he was actually shown fighting. Like when he stood on Guts' sword as a kid. Griffith was a crazy motherfucker, and he was crazy good. Guts beat him in speed and power in their duel, that much is absolutely true, but Griffith's swordsmanship shouldn't be underestimated because of that. If he's allowed to set the pace, his movements, control, and instincts are all on stupidly OP levels.

Guts was just straight up stronger and better at the time. I think he's also stronger and better than Serpico, perhaps by an even wider margin. Serpico admits he's at a massive disadvantage and tries to use every miniscule advantage he can muster to even the playing field just barely enough to eke out a win. And he still failed.

Using that to compare him to Griffith at his best and trying to say he's greatly superior (in terms of sheer swordplay) seems off to me.
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>>102185244
>It's like if you were fencing with somebody, then managed to hit him properly, and he just ignored it and kept on fighting. Guts ignored an unwritten rule of the duel and spat on Griffith's mercy.
Okay.
Shut the fuck up.
Just because Griffith was being a smarmy dick and not taking shit seriously does not mean that Guts is at fault for trying to fucking win.
Not only that, but Griffith basically challenges him to try and get out of this one.
AND Guts told Griffith to his face that he intends to kill him during the fight.
>>
>>102185016
They ain't gonna fuck.
Serpico knows they're brother and sister and Farnese is into Guts.
It will just boil down to some good ol' family love.
>>
>>102185244
This was not a sporting duel, serious duels are done until an opponent yields or dies; there is no hard and fast rule on when to give up.
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>>102185268
>But he didn't.
>This is Griffiths problem.
Well, he didn't have any other choice. He wanted Guts, and that couldn't be done if he were dead.

>Although, to be fair, Guts being a moron and not following up on his pummeling is why he ended up losing the fight.
Griffith would have probably found a way to beat him even if he continued
>>
>>102185325
This actually parallels their duel later on. Griffith underestimates Guts here too. I guess the reason Griffith is so interested in Guts is that he can never really figure him out like he does with everyone else.

This also gives insight to how arrogant Griffith can be. He expects to win, yet never fully considers his opponents, or at least Guts.
>>
>>102185338
Farnese is NOW into Guts after Serpico rejected her. And Serpico is growing somewhat jealous if I recall
>>
>>102185355
>Griffith would have probably found a way to beat him even if he continued
If Guts had followed up, taken Griffiths back after he kicked him, Griffith would have been fucked.
Griffith's biggest problem is that he doesn't deal with unexpected things very well.
Once he has a moment to get his bearings, he's amazing, but he very much lacks spontaneity.
>>
>>102185355
Wow, Miura really improved his style over the years. Just look at that Jew nose on Griffith.
>>
>>102172578
>tfw have a huge rivalry with Skellington
>waiting for eons for him to show up
>oh god he's here! he's here!
>he skips right over you and goes to fight bird-fuck

feels bad man
>>
>>102185355
>Well, he didn't have any other choice. He wanted Guts, and that couldn't be done if he were dead.
You misunderstand.
Griffith just kind of assumed that he had him.
It's another of his flaws.
He has absolute faith in his plans (which actually ties into his problems with Guts)
Usually, that's ok, because he has great plans.
>>
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>>102185114
>It was also dumb as fuck and led to Guts introducing Griffiths nose to his fist.
As others have said, it wasn't a dumb move by any means. Had he been aiming to kill Guts that would have been a golden opportunity.

Here's the page where Griffith uses lolskill to sever Nosferatu Zodd's arm with his tiny saber. Seriously, even eight years ago Griffith was ridiculous as fuck. I'm not trying to diminish Serpico here, I'm really not.
>>
>>102185467
>have a huge rivalry with Skellington
With a huge losing streak too, I imagine.
>>
>>102185428
>If Guts had followed up, taken Griffiths back after he kicked him, Griffith would have been fucked.
That's debatable. Griffith knew some pretty nice wrestling, and was stronger at this point.
>>102185430
He did improve, but that's not a Jew nose. Jew noses point downward by definition.
>>102185468
>Griffith just kind of assumed that he had him.
And he did. All he would have had to do was to trust forward, but he didn't. The duel was won. It went on longer because he didn't want to kill him (kinda like the second duel, but to a much bigger degree).
>>
>>102185468
He's interested in Guts because he is so hard to predict. It's a blessing and a curse.
>>
>>102185413
Emotional picture of berserk characters is so fucked up I don't even know where to start.
I just hope Miura doesn't kill Casca and make a time skip in order to make Guts and Schierke hook up.
>>
>>102185539
>And he did. All he would have had to do was to trust forward, but he didn't. The duel was won. It went on longer because he didn't want to kill him (kinda like the second duel, but to a much bigger degree).
You've again, completely misunderstood.
The duel wasn't won.
Griffith ASSUMED that he had Guts, because that's what Griffith does.
Because Griffith is a bit sure of himself.
>>
>>102185548
>time skip
Why bother with that? Old enough to cast, old enough to...uh...ride the mast.

Nailed it.
>>
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>>102185548
I swear to god if he kills Casca after all these years of false hope I will find him and bury him in a pit of angry scorpions
>>
>>102185590
It wasn't technically won, but any honest duelist would have surrendered in Guts' situation, because if Griffith had been trying to kill Guts, he would have. Guts was dishonest., please accept that.
>>
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>Griffith did nothing wrong
>BRA did nothing wrong
>Nina's dad did nothing wrong
>>
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To hell with "good" and "evil", that's that makes everything needlessly complicated. So let's jump straight to the point.

I understand why Griffith did what he did, and why he felt he needed to do it. I understand that he needed to sacrifice he friends to the demons in order to gain power, and that he wanted to rape Caska for his own pleasure. I won't call it evil, it is what it is.

However, I also understand and more than sympathize with Guts, who suffered the loss of his comrades, and watched helplessly as his lover was raped.

I want Guts to viciously, and violently crush Griffith's ambitions before his very eyes, before putting him in the ground in the most humiliating, cruelest way possible.
>>
>>102185590
Yeah pretty much this, although what he's saying is that if he had been trying his best to kill Guts at that point he would have just pushed his sword into his throat immediately rather than stopping to gloat. He had the opportunity to end the fight there, he didn't, and Guts took advantage of that 'cause Guts don't give no fucks his PTSD won't allow it.
>>
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I honestly think that Skull knight tried to slash Griffith on purpose. He knew that melding the world's together would give him a better chance at getting to Void who was in the deeper part of the vortex. Now that the world's are merged, the Godhands can be hurt and killed. So Skull knight is drawing out Void.

Also Guts is going to get to the island and something is going to happen to make Guts and Co come back to Falconia. Maybe something like Griffith sending forces to the elf Island.

Plus I really want to see what's happening in Griffith's kingdom. I know underneath the streets there are orgies of death and violence going on. Or maybe not, so far Griffith has actually done a lot good, aside from summoning raping monsters and trolls.

Another thing I would like to point out is that right now Guts can most likely 1v1 any apostle in Griffith's band and most likely kill them.
>>
>>102185623
Dishonest? He was brash, bullheaded and crazy, but not dishonest
>>
>>102185623
>but any honest duelist would have surrendered in Guts' situation
Are you a moron?
This wasn't "an honest duel"
Guts was trying to murder Griffith.
Griffith knew that.
He also knew that Guts would do anything to win.
There wasn't anything to be fucking dishonest about.
Guts considered it a fight for his life.
He treated it as such.
>>
>>102176562
>basically a bitch without a chance, power nor free will to ever harm a God Hand.
nothing has ever said this other than them always going on about fate and causality. The only thing they tell apostles is to do what they want.
>>
>>102185622
I also don't give a shit what Casca wants. Whether she likes it or not, she IS getting back her memories. We've put up with enough of her autistic bullshit.
>>
>>102185548

>berserk will end
>>
>>102185668
Yeah, I don't think guts would be able to take on Irvine.
>>
>>102185799
We have to believe.
>>
>>102185627
Doctor Tucker really was innocent though. Nina and Alexander were just begging for it. Always running around together and Nina constantly talking and living and doing things and talking. Who WOULDN'T fuse her with a dog for a government research grant? Seriously, who? Anyone who says they wouldn't is totally lying. It was the clear option, I mean come on!
>>
>>102185811
He fucked up Grunbeld,a fucking boss ass apostle on the level of Zodd, right after having a date with Slan.

And now he's only gotten stronger. There's not much that apostle could do, besides try to shoot arrows.
>>
>>102185847
Tucker just wanted to combine mans best friend with his loveable daughter. What could possibly go wrong?
>>
>>102185881
>He fucked up Grunbeld
That's a weird way of saying "Got his ass kicked and literally every bone in his body broken, failing to kill even after using the magical armor that prevent wounds from affecting you during a fight"
>>
>>102185799
Well, it will continue.
>>
I'll go to bed now. I hope there's gonna be more threads later today...
>>
>>102185811
I look forward to seeing that fight, though I think Irvine is slowly moving towards betraying the Band for Sonia's sake.
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>>102185881
>>102185906
Yeah I'm sorry brah but the best Guts could manage in that fight was a draw. He managed to crack Grunbeld's skin, but he was pretty far from killing him and his body was being completely destroyed in the process.

If anyone beat Grunbeld and the other apostles present, it was Flora. She put those worms in their place. There was nothing at all they could do before her flame.
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>>102185963
Too bad Sonia and her Duck are gonna be murdered by Schierke and Isidro
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>>102185906
Most of his wounds were caused by the armor though. It also wasn't one on one. Guts could take him if it was a fair battle and he was fully healed.
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>>102173075
Humans cannot be amoral. Please don't butcher English.
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>>102186032
>Most of his wounds were caused by the armor though
That's not how that works.
The armor doesn't cause wounds.
It repairs and reinforces broken bones with metal spikes.
It let him keep fighting after Grunbeld broke his everything
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>>102186032
>Guts could take him if it was a fair battle and he was fully healed.
We don't know that for sure, yet. I'm certain Guts will kill Grunbeld eventually, but I don't think it will be as simple a task as you're making it out to be. Same with the other Neo Hawks, including Zodd the Immortal.

They'll all die, but I seriously doubt it'll be like "lol so easy I surpassed you 11 volumes ago get on my level scrubs"
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>>102186079
>Humans cannot be amoral
a·mor·al
āˈmôrəl/
adjective
adjective: amoral
1.
lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something.
How do ya figure, faggot?
This isn't one of those "Hurr durr nobody can really be a nihilist" kind of things.
Remember, all non-sentient things are amoral, but not all sentient things are NOT amoral.
We have things called Cognitive Disorders.
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>>102185906
>>102186028

He is on par with Zodd and Grunbeld when he's fully healed up and rested in human form.
Grunbeld had to go full apostle to try to stop Guts, and then Guts stabbed him in the face and broke his so called super "crondium skin that's tougher then any form of steel". Guts as of right now is either A. On the level of the top tier Apostle's in the band. Or B. Stronger than then the top tier Apostle's in the band.

He traded Blows with Zodd on the hill top of swords both in Human and in apostle form and seemed to be doing fine and now has only gotten stronger. Now I'm not saying he's strong enough to fight all of them at once, but he fucked up 8 giant super fish who are stronger than regular apostle's.
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>>102185881
Those are some nasty arrows, and given that Gut's only ranged attack is his canon and I don't think that could do it alone. Throw in the rest of the party and they could probably pull it off butt alone he's kind of fucked.
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>>102186171
For a second I thought
>How do ya figure, faggot?
Was part of the definition.

kek
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>>102186032
>>102186120
Oooh, or if it is gonna be like that, how about he fights them all at once? Irvine sniping, Locus doing hit and runs, Grunbeld and Zodd playing interference, Rakshas doing sneak attacks.

BAND OF THE HAWK, ASSEMBLE!
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>>102186174
>He traded Blows with Zodd on the hill top of swords both in Human and in apostle form
>in apostle form
Zodd manhandled him as soon as he turned.
Guts went from even footing to immediately on the defensive, to getting tossed the fuck around.
There's a reason Zodd is so fucking hyped.
He's been the most dangerous motherfucker alive for a VERY long time.
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>>102186177
It depends if Dragonslayer can block his arrows. We know the sword has magic properties too it, but to what extent is still a mystery.
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>>102186177
Everyone knows that Serpico is going to be pared with Irvine, not Guts.
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>>102186028
>a draw

lol Grunbeld fought a half dead Guts and had to transform just to not die when Guts kicked his sorry ass. Then in dragon form Guts still managed to keep him locked down.

Let me guess, you think Griffith did nothing wrong as well right? hahahahaha
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>>102186231
Most likely.
So far it's blocked every other Apostle.
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>>102186210
He sliced Zodd like 4 times in Apostle form, on top of that, what made him get what you so call "manhandled" was Casca's retarded ass running up. Guts stopped and told her to get away and got slapped. He was still going blow for blow with Zodd.
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>>102186283
Guts manages a single cut, is tossed into the air, barely avoid getting smashed by Zodd then Casca comes in.
He's completely overwhelmed.
Zodd is too fast and too powerful.
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>>102186210
Yeah, he's basically the Neo Hawks' analogue to Guts.

Griffith = Griffemto
Guts = Zodd
Casca = Locus
Pippin = Grunbeld
Judeau = Irvine
Corkus = Rakshas
Rickert = Sonia? Mule? Rickert?

Clearly the comparisons are not perfect, but that's how I'd break it down.
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>>102186357
>Rickert joining the Neo Band of the Hawk
I WON'T LISTEN TO YOUR LIES
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>>102186338
>Zodd is too fast and too powerful.
2fast2furrious
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>>102186416
Someone talked about Griffith resurrecting the old Band of the Hawk so he could fuck with Guts' mind.
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>>102186338
>Zodd overwhelming Guts

Once again, apostles pick fights when Guts is half dead and Guts still puts them in their place.
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>tfw guts kills zodd and gets to know he was his son
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>>102186489
That wasn't a fight, moron.
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>>102186515
You're right.

It was Zodd getting his shit pushed in by Guts, can't call that a proper fight.
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>>102186478
>>102186338
I just reread that part, there exactly even. Guts gets a good slash on him when Zodd is in Apostle mode, Zodd flings him in the air. Guts rolls a little like>>102186478 then Zodd runs into the mind, and Casca shows up. They were practically even, Guts slashed him, and Zodd flung him, then Retarded Casca and Guts forgets about the fight to protect her.

Guts is most defiantly strong enough to kill any of the high ranking apostle's now. Even Zodd.
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>>102186542
I thought that was their awkward version of male bonding.
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>>102171979
He's God, can he really do any wrong?
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>>102186599
I still don't think it'll be as simple an errand as you make it out to be, whatever the circumstances surrounding their eventual battle. You should also keep in mind that Zodd and the other Neo Hawks are direct subordinates to Godhand Femto. It's not entirely unlikely that he will grant his favored apostles far greater powers if need be.
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>>102186677
No it will never be that easy, I honestly don't even think Zodd will die. I think he'll lose but still live. And Yes it may not be as simple as an errand as I'm making it seem. But we honestly don't know how much stronger Guts is going to get especially with Shrieke and the elf king helping him, as well as the hellhound within him getting stronger with each kill. Godhand forbid that thing will get loose, the only chains binding it right now are his new traveling companions that he's grew close to. If they go the chains will break and Guts and the hellhound will fuse. Then he will be stronger then all of the apostle's. There was some ominous foreshadowing in Volume 33 about this.
Honestly it is up in the air right now, Guts is strong enough to go toe to toe with all of them, but killing them as you have said is going to be a tricky task.
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>>102179384
I don't think anything happens to them, they simply die. ''Something' like the soul of an apostle or sacrifice gets sucked up in this vortex as a consequence of his contract
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>>102186914
And it always seemed happened before they died
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>>102186848
Well before he fights any of them he'll probably have to fight manticores and chimeras and werewolves and ettins and gorgons and slay actual dragons with the Dragonslayer.
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>>102186599
>defiantly
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>>102182556
>being disgusted at gay sex.
He was disgusted at having sex with a gross old pedophile for money. I'm legit gay and that'd disgust me too.
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Haha! Griffith is homo faggot.
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>>102183865
I think during the vision in the eclipse he realized his own horrible decision and the terrible things he's responsible for but realized he had no choice but to plow through and keep doing horrible things, otherwise he wouldn't have just racked up tens of thousands of deaths for the sake of his selfish, childish desires, but on top that it would have amounted to nothing. The idea of all the people who'd already died having died for absolutely nothing was what he couldn't accept.
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>>102171979
But anon, can you define evil? Can you say that Griffith is, objectively evil?
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>>102171979

he is embodiment of "ambition is evil".

the fact that the old band of hawk is become precious sacrifice for him. super behelit aside they are precious enough to turn him into one of the godhand which shows the depth of his affection to them.

on the other hand, when he face the worst condition (the mangaka ensure, the bad condition he face is WAY bad) his priority would be his ambition not his crew. which in a way the "evil choice" he make.

even after reincarnated, he remain mostly the same.
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>>102184646
>implying griffith is capable of being honest with himself about his feelings
>>
I gave up reading berserk some years ago because I felt it would never be finished and I couldn't take waiting for the next chapters to arrive anymore - I just spent like an hour reading this thread.

Thanks for nostalgia I guess.
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>>102173443
Quite the opposite, I would say.
Femto is evil in its nature, Griffith is human and he choose to sacrifice.
>>
Ok guys
Gigantomakhia ended
Now time for Berserk coming back

Anyone has informations about the next release?
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>>102173443

not "moral goal", nearly everytime he make those kind of choice is either survival or to get closer to his dream/ambition to have his own country/be a king
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>>102187947
Apparently there's going to be a bonus chapter for Gigantomakhia because fml

So next release is not as soon as you think.
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>>102185488
it's worth pointing out that when griffith cut off his arm, zodd wasn't even paying attention to him, as you can see in the panel, he was focused entirely on guts. For all he knew griffith was just some random pansy.
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>>102187252
Nice strawman you got there, just because you throw water at another man while being naked and with your penis erect doesn't mean you're gay.
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>>102186281
from a dramatic standpoint:
if anything is ever going to break the dragonslayer, it sure as shit won't be a fucking arrow.
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>>102188359
/pol/ is the ignorant fascist old geezer you can encounter in the morning in every single bar in most european countries drinking white wine/beer. I wonder what the fuck do they do on the internet when they could join their equals and leave us in peace.
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>>102188826
>Taking /pol/ seriously
You're biting their bait that's your problem



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