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Krauss was here, Natsuhi is a loser
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>>102151583
Can't wait for "closed airlock" mysteries IN SPACE!
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So how can we expect Lambda and Bern this time around
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>>102151583

Out of character. Krauss wouldn't insult his wife like that.
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>>102151649
Can't wait for Lucifer deito IN SPACE.
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>>102151583

Reminder Rena was into aliens before anyone else.
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>>102151781
>implying they have need for paperweights in space
>not just locking everything down with gravity manipulators
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>>102151781
But, anon, in enlightened era, magic loses its significance.
Read Ray Brudbury's Exiles.
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>>102151944
>>102151916
Calm down, I just wanted to post Lucifer in yet another WTC thread.
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>>102151944
>inb4 star magic
>science so complex it can genuinely replicate "magic"
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What's with the thread? Did something happen recently? Does anyone know anything about it?
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>>102151757
I think we can. It wouldn't feel good without them.
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>>102152013
Exactly.
Any sufficiently advanced technology doesn't merely resemble magic, it is magic by definition. "Technology" is a word used by people who understand the inner processes, while "magic" is used by those who don't.
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>>102152009
>>102151781
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>>102152193
You monster, Bern.
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>>102152193
That's pretty mean.
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>>102152057
scan popping up a while ago showing r07 characters in a space-cadet setting

time travel bullshit > meta bullshit > universe bullshit seems like the next logical step
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I don't think it'll be blatant, self-conscious murder mystery like Umineko, were we got lots of meta and even explicitly designated roles like who's the detective, the culprit and the victims. Ryukishi himself was pretty disappointment with how fans reacted to Umineko, so I think he won't try the same thing again. Most likely we'll get something resembling Higurashi, but with sci-fi and space antics.
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>>102152477
umineko either hit very hard or missed spectacularly, yeah

but it was a nice experiment on ryu's part, and it does leave quite the lasting impression whether you liked it or not

I would be disappointed if he didn't incorperate the strong points of both umineko and higurashi into when the moon tourists cry
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>>102152401

Right looks like Dlanor and Erika's lovechild.
Left looks like young Krauss and Eva with sort of curly hair. Or just Furfur.
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>>102152840
>Dlanor and Erika's lovechild
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>>102152840
Right looks like Sophie from Tales of Graces
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>>102152840
>Left looks like young Krauss and Eva with sort of curly hair

>Ushiromiya family, thanks to Krauss's investmemnts into space tourism, has invented a genetic technology, which was intended to allow cryostasis, but made an inadvertent side-effect of rejuvinating the physical condition of the subject who was cryostasised. Profiteering from this, Krauss launches a full-blown campaign for space epansion and exploration with his sister Eva, a corporation magnate.
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>>102152477
>Most likely we'll get something resembling Higurashi
And thank fuck for that.
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>>102152477
Umineko is my favourite thing ever. If it is more meta mystery shennanigans then I will be very happy.
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>>102152811

Eh, I actually liked Umineko (minus some specific parts, but oh well), but I think the problem is that it panders to a certain type of people. The general complains you see about how Chiru went ranged from people complaining Battler didn't beat the evil witch ala shonen manga, or that the answer that involved a castrated child product of incest just didn't appeal to their sympathies. And Umineko as a story asks a lot of sympathy, or at least understanding, from the reader, no matter how horrible of a person 99% of the cast is. Ryukishi was upset people had such ugly reactions to said boy raised as a girl with mutilated sexual organs, since he puts a lot of emphasis on how it affected them and how it mentally wrecked them to the point of committing murder. But because of the detail of not being a girl to begin with, many people have a hard time sympathizing with a character like that because it's so out of the norm.

Now, are those themes your regular reader can accept? A regular reader that expects "bad guys vs. good guys" type of story? Of course not. Someone who read Umineko and expected it to be a simple story of the hero beating the bad guys and getting a happy ending was in the wrong place to begin with.

In short, I think it's a good story, but it's made for certain people, so it can't really satisfy everyone when it has so many specific themes going on, so certain kind of people will be left out or it simply won't make sense to them.
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>>102153878
>But because of the detail of not being a girl to begin with, many people have a hard time sympathizing with a character like that because it's so out of the norm.
It's actually strange why people reacted like that.
Yes, I have a compassion value equal to zero, but that still doesn't explain why it was perceived that way - gender is completely irrelevant in that situation.
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>>102154042
Same reason why finding out some girl isn't a virgin causes shit storms in the community.
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>>102153878
>many people have a hard time sympathizing with a character like that because it's so out of the norm.

In short, people hate anything that's new.
I think the true problem people had with Umineko was the cheapness of the mystery. And not releasing an answer makes it stop being a mystery fiction, it is just fantasy with mystery fiction aspects.
Of course, that doens't mean Umineko is bad. I think it is actually way better as an story than Higurashi. More polished too.
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>>102154042
by "that situation" do you mean yasu instigating murder?
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>>102154176
>cheapness of the mystery
Mystery is only cheap if you believe the 'official' explanation.
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>>102154042
>gender is completely irrelevant in that situation.

True, but because people care enough about this kind of petty stuff Lion/Yasu's gender is one of Umineko's mysteries.
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>>102154253
I heard about other theories. My favorites are George or Rosa as the culprit. Alas, it is all just theories now because R07 decided to make Umineko into a fantasy by the last VN.
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>>102154377
It's only a fantasy if you think about it as a fantasy. But yes, Rosa/George is the best theory imho and it turns the mystery from being cheap and illogical to nigh unbelievable in it's perfection.
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>>102154042

The japanese fanbase actually thought Yasu was a girl and rolled with it until Answer of the Golden Witch came out, where Ryukishi basically states Lion to be a guy, making Yasu a guy. They had ugly reactions, needless to say.

Mostly, people who didn't had much sympathy for Yasu chalked it up to "dumb promise/can't decide which cousin to fuck" when it's actually much more complicated than that. I also don't think gender has to be such a huge factor regarding whether you can or not sympathize with a character. But for some people, it is. Take characters like Rena or Shion, or any of the aunts. They do horrible things too, but people can find easy to understand them or even love them because they're normal (physically speaking), cute girls/women who don't have any sort of problem with their sexual organs. It all comes down to whether they look attractive as girls to them or not, if you ask me.
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>>102154481
Yeah it's pretty much this
>>102154162
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>>102154176

If you read Answer of the Golden Witch, Ryukishi pretty much makes neon arrow signs pointing to Yasu. But again, language barriers are quite the obstacle when it comes to Umineko.
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>>102154481
Japanese people are shallow.
Most people are shallow.
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>>102154481
While the reason matters, in the end, it's just a reason, and actions are just actions. Judging a person is not something we can do.
Our life is that of a conflict, our values and interests clash, no matter how weird they may be. Just because something isn't normal and you can't realte to it doesnt mean you can't understand it.
tl;dr What a bunch of faggots.
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>>102154176

Eh, that was pretty much one of the themes on the story. "Magic" as the emotional mechanism to ignore or twist reality to your liking so you can cope with it easier, but eventually the "magic" will fade, leaving you with the cold, harsh truth. You get 4 episodes about the Ushiromiyas doing all the things they could never accomplish: understanding each other, realizing what was really important to them, letting go of old curses. When the reality was that all of them were horrible, selfish people until their very last breath and nothing could change that.
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>>102154846
No, the point was that, given that you can never know the truth, why not believe something that makes you happy?
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>>102154846
Marche's worst nightmare. He would hate Umineko.
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>>102154941

That also was a theme, too. In Umineko's case, there is a truth, but unless you're spend hours re-reading the whole thing, which is something I assume most of people don't have the patience to do, you might as well go for the we-just-don't-know route and enjoy the fantasy for what it is. Even when Ange knew the truth about her family, she learnt to cope with it and move on.
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The Umineko character which rustled me the most was Erika, actually.
Yes, I prefer harsh, cold truth over "magic" no matter what the cost or what the truth is, but what's the point in shoving it into others' faces?
You know the truth, and that's sufficient. No need to prove anything to anybody.
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>>102155842
For some reason I felt really sympathetic towards Erika. Even though the freudian excuse she was given wasn't a great one, I feel like she wasn't telling the whole story, and she gets a lot of shit from Bern. People don't become that fucked up just because they're assholes, she clearly had some bad experiences...

Plus her amazing fucking reversal to save Ange was mind blowing to me, how could it possibly have been anyone else? I mean I solved it myself. Then she destroys my preconceptions. Sure it was ultimately to trick Ange but it was still awesome.
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>>102155842
The point is that people are WRONG and Erika is RIGHT so she has to SHOW OTHERS HOW WRONG THEY ARE.

In other words, the same reason as basically every pointless internet argument ever.
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>>102156525
It's funny, that's actually exactly the reason why I throw any argument when I don't care enough about it (as in, it doesnt concern my well-being or it's too much of an effort to convince somebody).
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>>102154592
Well
actually
a lot of signs pointed to yasu NOT being the killer

an instigator, surely. showing the family the gold and causing discord within the ranks is most likely something beatrice accomplished

but it is, of course, just as likely for beato to be the culprit

that's why I love the catbox
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>>102156525
Also the scene with her pushing over whatsherface and commanding her to stand up again, just to push her... was really hot for some reason.
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>>102155842

Erika was, in part, a representation of a reader who used their intellect to assert themselves over other people. Disregarding any sort of empathy and love for the story, they use the mysteries they solve to mock people and feel superior because they solved difficult riddles. Typical arrogant asshole wanting to feel superior to everyone else through their smarts.
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>>102155842
Umineko would be worse without Erika.
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>>102156952
I don't argue about that (mostly because I don't care), it just really rustled me. Like, I know there are people who try to assert their superiority in everything, but I never understood what's the point of doing that, unless it benefits you in some way.
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Erika has the best theme too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcTxd5qQChw
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>>102156525
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfNaaqm8xPU

not only was she utter shit
she was such a ham about
it, she's easily one of the top characters in anything ever
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>>102156792

In prime, Yasu wasn't the killer, of course. But in all 4 games she is the culprit, with one of the aunts being a main accomplice.
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>>102157085
Funny way to spell Zepar and Fufur.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgBz88f3Dh8
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>>102157081
It just feels good if you're fully right about something, knowing the person you're arguing with is completely wrong and you can prove it.
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>>102157081

It's a natural thing for people to try to assert themselves over someone, everyone has done that at least once. Some people, like Erika shows, never grow out of it. The point is that there is a fair share of the fandom who engages in such things and Erika was Ryukishi's way to illustrate that. Hell, the whole point of Erika's character was to show how bad it can be to be so narrow minded and how many things you can miss just because it doesn't appeal to you.
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>>102157229
hear hear

they may have been very minor characters representing a major theme in umineko (the ambiguity of yasu's gender and how that drove her and many people to murder ((the love challenge and whatnot))) but they're so damn entertaining to watch

and best theme, also the only theme that benefits having vocals because it made use of their delicious voices
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>>102157103
That scene still makes me laugh.

Erika is like 110% ham there.
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>>102157300
Well, true, but giving it to emotions always seemed like a weakness to me. There is no wisdom in doing it.
Enjoying emotions? Sure. Mindlessly giving in to them? Just no.
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>>102157421
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>>102151757
They promised to meet again in the next WtC.

THEY PROMISED.
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>>102157934
I hope lambda gets the role of technical main character this time around
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>>102157598

Humans need both emotions and logic to deal with the every day life. You might be unaware of how many decisions you make (no matter how insignificant) based on your emotions. Some people have an inclination for one or the other, but we never stop using one of them. There are the calculating type of people who work based on profit and what is more logical (like Kyrie) as well as the emotional type of people, who work based on how they feel about things (like Battler) but that doesn't mean they ALWAYS give in completely to one or another. Human psychology is complicated.
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>>102156849

Probably because it was a form of domination that required the abused person to participate in their own abuse. It's one thing to just beat someone who's cowering but that's completely one sided. Erika set it up so that Cornelia had to choose each time to stand up and take it. Pure submission and humiliation that forces the victim to realize that they are completely under the power of their abuser.
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>>102158340
I know that human is (most likely) postrational, and actual rationality plays very little in our decision making algorithm, but I just accept it. Emotions are, I don't know, a coping mechanism or something. Just like mind is, actually. There is no inherent purpose for both of them.
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>>102158487
Yeah, you could write a great hentai doujin starting from that situation.
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>>102156525
>In other words, the same reason as basically every pointless internet argument ever.

Erika makes even more sense no.
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>>102158178
That would be fun to watch.
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>>102157883
>inappropriate
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>>102157421
I'm sort of sad she never hit higher levels of ham at other times
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>>102157934
You forgot something anon, only Beatrice keeps her promises.
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Does anyone in here visit the DameDame threads?
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>>102161841
I do, but I have zero fucking clue what's going on inside that ARG. When I tried to read the pastebin and comments, I perceived those as word salad.
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>>102157934
From what I've gathered from interviews from /jp/ years ago of Ryukishi, it's going to be 3 seperate world/planets/colonies seperated by space. All three colonies will have weird curses and shit happening similarily somehow with none of the three worlds knowing what the fuck is going on or why.

Basically, we're going to get a triple connect cat box that is somehow linked but separated by space.

It would be like putting three cats in a box, shipping them somewhere in the world and finding out that all three cats died of some similar illness but that they only caught it when they arrived at their destination.

I'm more curious about who's going to be the next Witch who is going to be influencing all the events and what are the three XYZ rules for the next WtC.

Not to mention that Bernkastel is likely going to be fucking around with the ship and stupid errors everywhere just to fuck things up.
Only 0.000001% chance of a meteor fucking the base? That'll be Bernkastel all day every day everywhere in the galaxy.
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>>102162250
I'm looking forward to this.
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>>102162250
At least we won't be inside a goddamn island with a mansion all the time.
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>>102163213
It'll be eels in space.

I'm more curious if Ryukishi did his research about Sci-fi shit.

I've been digging into old Higurashi shit for possible leads and there's actually a fuckton.

In one of the episodes flashcard ending (of the anime), a fan keeps persisting that Hanyuu is an alien from the M-(something) Cluster from space and can shoot laser beams and shit.

There's a comic commissioned by Ryukishi to come out when Kira was being made where Hanyuu teases the fuck out of Rika and then Hanyuu jokingly just laser beams the fuck out of someone.

I wish I had both images on me.
Either way, Ryukishi has been planning to make Space WtC since fucking Higurashi.
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>>102163571
Also, funny to not is System 0 starts off with a quote from Star Trek TGN. So Ryukishi was already doing his research on all things Sci-fi years ago.
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>>102163717
to note*
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>>102163717
>Ryukishi
It's -45, and most of his tracks have subtle throwbacks to different shit.
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>>102163213
I really liked Rokkenjima and was genuinely sad when they left it in 8.
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>>102164227
only those with insufficient LOVE didn't cry

I'd gladly be a seagull in that sense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhenm9uP2p8
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>>102164651
Reading that ending again after reading Umineko made me giggle at how fucking tragic it is if you imagine it your own way by removing the meta.

>family dead
>internet to ignore aunt and treat her like a bitch
>get subsequently also treated like a bitch
>go to school, get bullied
>lose all motivation in life except finding the truth
>find out some idiot is writing stories about the island
>figure out the author and find out she's a hack who happens to like being alone and shit
>don't give a fuck
>figure out the actual message of Umineko is to move on past tragedies
>give up name and live a life of recluse
>spend the rest of your days writing books
>never be famous or well known
>only get recognition when you're about to die of cancer in a few months
>get invitation by hack author who figured you out
>turns out your oniichan is still alive
>except he isn't
>can't remember shit
>entire reunion feels empty, rushed and has no magic on either side
>just two old people who've spent their years apart not being able to connect to each other
>bring oniichan to see a replica of mansion to jog memories
>old memories rush back in
>heart attack
>spend whatever is left of your life in complete regret that you are the reason your brother died

Say whatever you want about Umineko, it was great and sadistically tragic and cruel.
How can Ryukishi pull off something that can be so beautiful, sad, happy and tragic all at one?
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>>102165221
internet tell you* to ignore aunt
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>>102165221
bernkastel has the last laugh once again
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>>102165325
I fucking hate and love Bern.
She just has a way of bullying someone eternally while doing the smallest of efforts.

I love Rika but absolutely hate Bernkastel.

Fucking Ryukishi and his goddamn dualism.
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>>102165596
who is more fun to hate?
erika or bern?
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>>102165756
Erika is fun-hate, Bern is just a cunt.
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>>102165756
Both?
Man, I have so much conflicted opinions on both Erika and Bern.

Erika is so lovable and complete shit in every way but such a good character that you love to hate that somehow gets to be endearing at times. She's perfect in every way, except she's not.

Bernkastel just fucks with you and knows it and still doesn't give a fuck.
Hearing Bern do the reverse Rika by going all ''Nipaa~'' just broke my heart.
I fucking trusted that bitch in ep 7. I though she was nice and helpful and good. Fucking Bernkastel. Fuck her to death.

And weirdly, it's not the bad sort of hate. Not the type where you hate her because she's a poor character or drives you on your nerves but the type that just makes you angry because she tricked you and keeps not giving a fuck about how many people she gets to lower just for laugh and giggle.

There's not a single witch I don't love or hate to death at the same time.
Except Featherine, she can die in the pits of hell where she belongs.
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>>102152401
How did Ryukishi manage to get worse at drawing?
Those outfits look horrible. I guess they're supposed to since they're clearly just astronaut gear but after seeing Beatrice's dress I'm sure he can do a lot better.
I hope his facial expressions are still amazing. Also hoping those characters have alternate outfits.
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>>102166378
>worse at drawing
He hasn't changed anything.
Go read Umineko again, it's still shit looking, you just got used to it.

Also, it doesn't really matter.
Anyone will notice this but his WtC always gets an updated sprite version with the voices on the current generation PlayStation.

Higurashi went on the PS2
Umineko went on the PS3
WtC5-6 will go on the PS4.

I swear that he plans this shit.
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>>102166742
Yeah, I guess you're right.
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>>102166378
you know even when there are shit designs he has god tier ones to counter them
come on anon
>>
>thinking people dislike Yasu because muh trans hate

The real reason Yasu is reviled is because s/he displaced many more legitimate theories with a fucking retarded one. Switching outfits that often and having nobody notice, or having people in the know but never making any mention of it in critical life-or-death situations is just mind-blowingly stupid. Good thing RS07 decided to derail everything completely so he could beat the reader over the head with the whole "it doesnt matter what the answer is, its the journey that counts!" shit, thus alienating people in it for the plot as well as mystery fans.

My hopes are low for WtC5, to say the least.
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>>102166742

It's not his fault. The Alchemist dudes are the ones who decide to adapt the novels. Also, he hired an illustrator for Rose Guns Days and he got shit from the fans because it didn't had his designs.
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>>102167258
Japan dislikes Yasu because muh trans hate. There were a lot of "disgusting homo" comments on boards when Answer came out.
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>>102167258
No, people dislike Yasu because Ryukishi pulled a reverse Queen Theory and purposefully fucked his story in order to close it.

I was recently reading on a textbook that was talking about some of the mysteries on Agatha and it mentioned that some of her purist considered And Then There Were None to be her ultimate work, being almost perfect, but that she never should have given the answer. Closing it with a ''wut'' was the ideal way and most perfect way to do so.

And that's exactly what Ryukishi did.
Funny how shit turns out.
The answer does matter, it always does, but it only matters to the reader. There;s a difference.

If you knew anything of Ryukishi, you'd be hyped as fuck.
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>>102167344
He didn't get shit as much as he got people hoping that his next work would get his drawing.

I always find it hilarious. People bitch that his art sucks, so he gets a semi competent artist to do it and people bitch that it isn't as great as his shit art full of love.

I still believe that Ryukishi purposefully asked that illustrator to do the art for RGD so that he could work more on the next WtC and its art with his brother.

Not to mention the music in RGD, while still being somewhat damn good, isn't the level of Umineko and I suspect the reason for that is that dai and company are working on the next WtC BGM.

Can't wait for space techno.
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>>102167258

>Switching outfits that often and having nobody notice

It actually makes sense once you take in account a couple of stuff. "Kanon" spent a shorter time working in Rokkenjima than "Shanon". Krauss and Natsuhi gave zero fucks about some random servant and only wanted them to do their job properly. Krauss would go on business trips, Natsuhi was too busy with her own problems and sobbing about Kinzo to worry about some servant girl. Jessica is an airhead and wouldn't notice either because she also had her own business going on. We also have Genji and Kumasawa there to shut down any sort of suspicion. As for the rest of the siblings, they only saw each other once a year, so they give even less fucks for some random servant.

> or having people in the know but never making any mention of it in critical life-or-death situations

Except that they don't know it's a life or death situation. Kumasawa was fooled by Yasu to think the murders were fake and it was all a game, otherwise she wouldn't cooperate. Genji doesn't care about what happens to him and like Yasu, he lets whatever happens, happens. If Yasu ordered him to keep his mouth shut, he'd do it.

> Good thing RS07 decided to derail everything completely so he could beat the reader over the head with the whole "it doesnt matter what the answer is, its the journey that counts!" shit, thus alienating people in it for the plot as well as mystery fans.

There is an answer, just some people can't either accept it or even reach it.
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>>102167989
>Genji doesn't care about what happens to him
Read ep 1 and 2, he cares what happens to him.
He only doesn't care in meta scenes which are complete lies.

Genji always had a sense of self preservation and never once followed Yasu despite what you think.
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>>102167709

But there is a legitimate answer as to what happened in Prime, and Will confirmed in episode 7 that the 4 games have an answer too. Why people bitch that there isn't an answer where there is one, and the author himself stated it? You should read Answer of the Golden Witch.
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>>102168145

I mean that Genji doesn't care about what happens to himself. He's willing to kill himself if Yasu orders him to do so. He also helped to hide the bodies. What I was saying is that Genji would do anything that Yasu says, and if Yasu told him to hide any clue that Shanon and Kanon were the same person, he'd do it, helping Yasu to fool everyone.
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>>102168165
>But there is a legitimate answer as to what happened in Prime
No there isn't.

All games have a solution but not Prime.
You fucking idiot will never understand that Prime was never meant to be solve because we don't know what truly happened.

It turns out to be a complete combo of all the gameboards with Eva solving the epitaph and Beatrice having a chat with Battler at the end where Battler does not get killed (see ep 3 with a Eva shooting him in the face in that scenario whereas no one solves the epitaph.

A good analogy is Black Matter. We know it exist but we can only see its shadow, we don't know what it is or what it represents but we know it's there by other means.
The gameboards is that ''other means''. We can know a few pieces to the puzzle but it's impossible to figure out the whole picture because the entire thing is chaotic.

People will cheat by accepting an answer from a witch, namely Ep 7's tea party because they are lazy idiots.

Just because the Games have an answer and point towards the culprit does not mean Prime is answerable. It never will be. We know whodunnit and whydunnit by proxy but we will never know the howdunnit because it's irrelevant, which is the entire point.

>>102168296
Completely wrong. We're never shown this except in meta which never happened and it's more up to interpretation that Genji was willing to let himself be killed.
He shows direct resentment towards Beatrice in ep2, which isn't coincidental.

The whole ''Genji can die whenever Yasu decides it'' is a complete fabrication and lie from people who only see Genji as a servant and nothing more.
>>
Haven't been in one of these threads for years.
Is there a consensus on who the culprit(s) is/are?
I always thought it was Kyrie ever since EP3 showed her true colors.
>>
>>102167258

>Switching outfits that often and having nobody notice,

Let's say you're a girl from a rich family. You're too busy thinking about your school life, friends, constantly being scolded by your strict mother and having to live up to their expectations. You have this servant girl who is your friend, but due to work you can't really talk to her that often and you're not that close to her. Where in the fucking world would you think that she and the new servant boy are the same person, when one of them lacks breasts? You're asking for a normal 18 year old girl to have insane levels of paranoia to suspect that a young man and a woman that you barely know are the same person.

You're a housewife. You have been forced to marry to some rich heir dude, who happens to be an asshole towards you, but he sincerely loves you. The whole family treats you like shit, and you have been burdened with the guilt of murdering a servant and a baby 19 years ago. You have to worry to keep everything neat and perfect to keep up with the family expectations of a housewife. When the fuck she has the time of the day to think, out of nowhere, that a young man and a girl she barely gives a fuck about are the same person (again, breasts)?

And the same thing with Krauss, who is slow-witted. Really, everyone has so much shit on themselves, why they'd pay attention to just another servant? They'd have to be on Rokkenjima Syndrome to start suspecting any sort of crazy shit like that. You don't normally think just because two people resemble each other they are the same person. Even more taking in account Yasu might have used wigs and breasts pads to play Shanon.
>>
>>102168925
Consensus is divided between Shannon Rosa+George or the easy route of eating what you're been shown with Kyrie

The actual solution being Rosa

Kyrie is only a devious person who isn't low from blackmailing people and using them but murder is not her style. All events shown that Kyrie has an evil side are all meta and cannot be trusted and always show Kyrie in a defensive position when attacking someone, which is ironic considering what people think she took initiative when it's clearly shown that she doesn't which is why she relies on Rudolf so much and only helps him rather than make her own company.
>>
>>102168925

Well, you're right, she is.

>>102168593

Ryukishi himself stated there is a single, true answer to what happened in Rokkenjima. Episode 7's tea party is very implied to be Prime, with a few tweaks here and there. Many of the things that happened there resonate with the things Ange described about Eva in episode 4.

I repeat, Ryukishi himself stated it. The culprit was Kyrie and Rudolf, and that's why Eva didn't want to show Ange the truth (at the beginning, at least). The catbox can be opened.
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>>102169144

> getting Kyrie characterization this wrong
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>>102169173
No it isn't you fucking idiot, it's just a very likely possibility of events which disregards Kyrie's character entirely.

There is a single answer (one real culprit) but Knox 8th says that it's all good.

Stop jerking off to the interview and use your brains and read the VN again.
>>
>>102168593
Not the same anon, but Genji is completely loyal to Kinzo, and my interpretation of it was that his loyalty extended to Yasu. Genji didn't have a family or anyone else aside from the Ushiromiyas. Whenever Genji refers to the head or master, he's actually talking about Yasu despite giving the impression that he's talking about Kinzo, and he's usually very respectful.
>>
>>102169294
Read Umineko again.
>>
>>102168925
People still argue about it and most people either think it's Shkanon or Rosa and George. But there are a few enlightened beings who realise the true cluprit is Gohda.
>>
>>102169349
>loyal to kinzo =/= loyal to yasu
This is where people are wrong because Kinzo and Genji spent a lot of their youth together which explains why Genji is so faithful and loyal to Kinzo but not once is it ever shown that Genji is loyal outside a meta scene.

Hell, even that part where he dressed up Yasu as Beatrice could be his servitude towards Kinzo more so than actually for Yasu.

Genji is lightly loyal to the head of the house but very loyal to Kinzo. There's a very noticable difference.
>>
>>102169308

> ignoring the author's word

Kyrie and Rudolf were the culprits. And it actually makes perfect sense with Kyrie's characterization. She's cold and ruthless, and does what benefits her the most. In that sort of situation, that's the course of action she'd take. Kyrie actually knows exactly what kind of piece of shit is Rudolf, but she loves him regardless and was actually relieved Eva got rid of him in her place, because she herself couldn't. She hates and resents Rudolf because of his constant cheating, but didn't had the guts to get away from him since she's helplessly attached to him.

Eva witnessed all these things, and she knew it would scar Ange for life, so she wanted to hide it at all costs. Of course, when she and Ange's relationship grew strained, her intentions changed, but the actions remained the same. It actually all falls into place when you take in account this.
>>
>>102169514

If Genji wasn't loyal to Yasu, he wouldn't have acknowledged her as his only master instead of Krauss. He swore loyalty to Yasu, his only "true master", along with Kumasawa and Nanjo when Kinzo died and Yasu solved the epitaph. If he wasn't loyal, he would have unmasked Yasu when the murders happened instead of helping her to move the corpses and shut down the telephone lines.
>>
>>102169144
Rosa?
I'm curious now, why her?
She's pretty much at the bottom of my list of who I thought the culprit would be.
Can you explain the main points of that theory?
I can sort of understand George having some part in it though, but I don't really remember the two conversing much if at all so it sounds a bit odd for them to both be the culprits.

>>102169173
Is she? I always felt like her being the villain would make things a lot more interesting than most other characters considering she's directly related to the main character and Ange. She also seems really shady and she clearly has the wits to pull it off.
>>
All these years and people still argue over basic plot points
GG Ryukishi
>>
>>102169514

>Genji is lightly loyal to the head of the house but very loyal to Kinzo.

Genji genuinely cares about Yasu. If he didn't, he would have let Kinzo have the baby when Kinzo still thought the baby was Beatrice reborn. He actually acted against Kinzo out of concern for Yasu in that time. There's a shit tons of other examples where he acts on Yasu's behalf, so it's pretty clear he'd do anything for her.
>>
>>102169514
Kinzo desperately wanted to make up for what he did to Beatrice 2 and Yasu was his only remaining link to Bice. Because Genji didn't want Kinzo to make the same mistake with Yasu, he saved her and was the closest thing she had to a father figure her entire life. Yasu isn't just any head, I'd say. She was the only person that Kinzo would truly care about (if he know who she was, as shown with Lion) and I think that's one of the reasons for Genji's loyalty to her. Not to mention a sense of guilt for what happened to her.
>>
>>102169948

>I'm curious now, why her?

People who don't like the answer to be an italian boy raised as a girl and find a heartbroken MILF more easy to sympathize with.

> She also seems really shady and she clearly has the wits to pull it off.

You're right. And she actually does.
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>>102169507
Every thread
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>>102169950
People should accept others have different theories and that while there is an absolute truth, without Ryukishi directly revealing it we'll never know the right answer even if we have it in the palm of our hands.

Given all the themes in the VN about mysteries and answers you'd expect people to have gotten over it by now.
>>
>>102169618
It doesn't make sense with either one of the 5 gaves you fucking dolt.

Putting Kyrie as the culprit is the quickest and simplest answer because of how much it would affect Ange.
It ignores the mystery and everything else for an answer.

You're just using ep 7 by itself as your proof and nothing more.
Not to mention Eva crying in the arms on Kyrie when she says that she tried to be a good mother in ep 8.

Just because shit connects doesn't mean you have to force them to fit by ignoring the rest of the puzzle.

>>102169782
Never happened. Genji had a slight idea what was going on and just because he knew that Rosa/Yasu/whomever was Beatrice did not mean he knew that the murders were committed by that person.
The only thing Genji did was present that person toKinzo as his last present before he kicked the bucket. He never cared for Yasu nor has he ever shown any baring of care in any possible way.

>>102169948
Check www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHMta4YbjSM
6 hour long, make up your own mind and join the shit debate afterwards.

Funny thing is that Rosa actually has the brains. Eva even compliments her at being so weird and out of place, unlike her regular self that is timid and shy, after Eva finds the gold. Rosa goes completely out of character after Eva finds the gold.

Funny enough, a staple of mystery novels is that the culprit is always the person you least suspect.

The part in ep 4 where Gaap talks to George is suppose to be the time George and Rosa first made plans to kill everyone. Small hint but I don't really know if there's anything there but it's still a stretch.

Rosa basically wants to kill everyone by following the epitaph literally rather than symbolically which would resurrect Beatrice whom she killed.
>>
>>102169948
Also Battler/Eva trying to hide the truth from Ange so badly just made me think it was Kyrie even more. Ange's reaction would have been far more drastic if that were the case compared to say, Hideyoshi or some other dumb character were the culprit.
>>
>>102170047

Also it's mentioned Genji draws a clear line between the professional and personal. He knew that as a servant, he'd have to obey Kinzo if he told him to give the baby to him, but he wasn't sure if Kinzo could accept the baby as a person and not Beatrice again, so he acted based on what he feared would happen. I don't think he agreed with what Yasu wanted to do, but he understood better than anyone what she went through, and maybe he felt guilty because he basically chose to be a bystander when Kinzo raped his daughter and isolated from the outside world. It's not hard to imagine he'd think "this is what I deserve" if he let such horrible things happen in front of him, and even taking part on it.
>>
>>102169948
Also, some nice symbolism I didn't notice until yesterday when I got my copy of the Umineko manga.

When Eva-Beatrice is beaten the shit out of Rosa in ep 3, she mentions that Rosa always wished she could be a butterfly as a kid.
And who is the main enemy of butterflies?
Spiders.

It's the reason why Beatrice can't touch spider webs. If Beatrice touches a spider web, she becomes trapped like a butterfly trapped on a spider web.

And who do you thin vanishes in a smoke of butterflies? Fucking Beatrice.

The more I reread Umineko, the more I pick up shit like this.
>>
>>102170441

Exactly If it was Rosa or Krauss, Ange could have probably be shocked and resented, but not as much as she'd be if it was her beloved parents, the people she has been longing for almost her entire life.
>>
>>102170382
>6 hour long
I think I'll have to pass on this one.
Thanks a lot for the link though.
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>>102170528
>>102170382

Denial, again?
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>>102170528

>I got my copy of the Umineko manga.

Well, you'll sure have a blast reading EP8 manga, where it's actually confirmed episode 7's tea party as Prime.
>>
>>102170528

Shanon has a butterfly brooch, and she and Kanon see golden butterflies and can speak to Beatrice.
>>
>>102152295
>>102152326
Don't worry you just need beato to counter Bernkastel.
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This chat is nice and all but I'd be glad if any of you would tell Battler-san to not go this year to the family conference.
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Kyrie's a cool, compassionate killer. She just wanted to get rid of her husband but Eva was so kind to do it for her. She and Takano would be good friends.
>>
>>102170827
Shannon has a butterfly brooch given to her by Beatrice.
Wonder who gave it to her.
Maybe someone who identifies herself as a butterfly.

>>102170720
Nope, I found a word for it ''reverse Queen Theory''.
Ryukishi created a false culprit and closed the story.

He did what people complained about And Then There Were None, namely not actually give the answer, but put his own spin on it. He create a lie that contradicted the story itself which by itself changed the events and how we viewed it.

>>102170714
It's interesting.
Make up your own mind, you don't need to accept it but you sort of need to watch it to understand why people either accept it or don't or mention Rosa.

>>102170767
Untranslated and full of lies, therefore it does not exist. Meanwhile, my copy of ep 3 is all the proof I needed to prove that Shannon and Kanon are separate people.

It's actually a perfect checkmate.
I would have never noticed or bothered to look this up if it had not been the manga making me notice the slight difference.
>>
>>102171388
>Wonder who gave it to her.
>Maybe someone who identifies herself as a butterfly.

There is never proof or implications that the butterfly brooch was given to her by Rosa.

> Ryukishi created a false culprit and closed the story.

There is no false culprit. Yasu is the culprit for the 4 games and Kyrie/Rudolf for Prime.

> Untranslated and full of lies, therefore it does not exist.

So it's a lie because you say so? Wow, delusion at its finest.

> Meanwhile, my copy of ep 3 is all the proof I needed to prove that Shannon and Kanon are separate people.

Just because you say so? Without providing any sort of concrete proof. Right.
>>
>>102171388

>Ryukishi created a false culprit and closed the story.
> Untranslated and full of lies, therefore it does not exist.

There is no proof for any of these stuff, it's just you mindlessly vomiting the same shit that video shows because an Italian boy raised as a girl is too much for you, it seems.

> Meanwhile, my copy of ep 3 is all the proof I needed to prove that Shannon and Kanon are separate people.

> Making theories and denying facts without even finishing reading the rest of the story

You can't be this much of an idiot, can't you?
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>>102171388

It's ironic you want to present the manga as proof when the manga has Yasu illustrated, and episode 7 manga has a two-page spread of Kyrie and Rudolf laughing maniacally with a couple of shotguns at the corpses of the siblings and Yasu in Beatrice's dress in the gold room after they murdered them.
>>
>>102172051
>Just because you say so? Without providing any sort of concrete proof. Right.
Hahahahahaha, you didn't think I'd call up some bullshit without having anything to back it up, did you?

Reconstruction of Ep 3, First Twilight,

5 servants and Kinzo are murdered. Each locked in a room with 1 master key and the only other key opening the door to the room is attached.
Shannon is found first in the Parlor and Kanon is found last in the Chapel.
Looped room murder
Room A + key B > Room B + key C > etc until we get Room E + Key A.

Standard shit.
But here's a kicker that proves Shannon and Kanon are separate people; you flip the chessboard around.
Do the action from the view point of the culprit.

Shannon fakes her death, gets out of the parlor and then plays dead in the Chapel where Kanon is found, thereby making it a fake loop with the beginning and end overlap. But there's an issue, it's impossible.
Quite possibly, a logic error of the highest caliber.

See, it's stated in red that there is only 1 Chapel key which is found in the Boiler Room with Kinzo.
So how is Shannon able to get out of the parlor, get into the chapel, lock the door to the chapel using the only Chapel key able to do so and then be able to place the chapel key into the Boiler room which is also locked?
Not to mention that the entire family was walking into all the looped rooms together, which means no possible accomplishes were possible in this Twilight event.

It's impossible.
Not to mention these red truth about the Chapel
>Only one key to the chapel exists
>It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key
>When the door to the chapel is locked, it prevents any and all methods of entry or exit
>>
>>102173145
Was it ever stated that you couldn't lock the door from the inside?

If not, was it ever stated or proven that it would have been impossible for Shannon (or an accomplice for that matter) to unlock it at any previous point in time so she could then enter later and lock it from the inside, creating the appearance of a closed room?

The red doesn't seem airtight yet.
>>
>>102173145

>5 servants and Kinzo are murdered

Kinzo is already dead by the time of the murders.

> Shannon fakes her death, gets out of the parlor and then plays dead in the Chapel where Kanon is found, thereby making it a fake loop with the beginning and end overlap. But there's an issue, it's impossible.

It's not. Yasu has accomplices to help her out. And you have to remind yourself if Battler never witnesses the corpses by himself there's a chance either he was lied to or the corpse wasn't there to begin with.

Also, you have no proof that Ryukishi is lying. Aside from the forced shit you just pulled out (which seems to be your only "source" to try and deny ShKanon), you have no way to disprove Shanon and Kanon are the same person.
>>
>>102173365
>Was it ever stated that you couldn't lock the door from the inside?
Did you even check the image I posted >>102171388

It's fucking confirmed.
THERE IS NO WAY TO LOCK THE DOOR AND THE WINDOE OF THE SIX WOOM WITHOUT USING A KEY

A bolt or deadbolt theory is impossible.

It's a pure checkmate this time.
I win.

Rosatrice is confirmed.
No matter what, Shannon cannot do the First Twilight of ep 3.

Not to mention this red truth
>no one is hiding

If Shannon is pretending to be dead, doesn't that mean she's hiding in plain sight?

There's no way out of this.
>>
>>102173559
>If Shannon is pretending to be dead, doesn't that mean she's hiding in plain sight?

No, that's a highly skewed semantic interpretation.
>>
>>102173559

There is never proof Shanon was never in possession of the chapel key. And really, it's just one scene you're trying to arrange to fit your theory against a shit tons of scenes where it's implied Kanon and Shanon are the same.
>>
>>102173559

> It's a pure checkmate this time.
> I win.

I never saw someone so desperate to try to convince everyone that they're right.
>>
>>102173529
>it's possible that it didn't happen
Yes, doubt the murders of the witch, even though it's stated in red

Go be a goat somewhere else.
I don't need a proof to prove he's lying, I use Umineko as its own proof.

I just needed a single definitive proof to show that it's impossible and Ep 3's First Twilight is my such proof.

>>102173803
I'm sorry, it means nothing.
Shannon cannot do The First Twilight, it's a logic error.

She is disqualified, all further theory is completely destroyed until logic error is solved.

I call it the reverse closed room. Shannon needs to get inside the Chapel, that much is certain since she is Kanon. Right?
But you NEED the Chapel key to lock the Chapel door, no other way in or out is possible other than the front door.

So how can Shannon get inside the Chapel, lock the door of the Chapel using the Chapel key AND THEN HAVE THAT SAID SAME CHAPEL KEY INSIDE THE BOILER ROOM WHERE KINZO IS?????

It's impossible.

>>102173953
Why bother when I've proven the impossible?
You don't understand the significance of what I've done.

Red truth > theories.
implications means shit.
Explain how Shannon got into the Chapel and locked the door using the chapel key without using magic to teleport it into the boiler room.

>>102173753
I'll give you that but it's really sketchy since the manga mentions that ''no one hiding means that no one is faking their deaths'' which is why I brought it up.
It's more than semantics here though I won't say anything if you accuse me of semantic since it can be seen that way.
>>
Everyone (Erika included) observing Kanon and Shannon in the same room in EP5? Anyone?
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>>102174233

> don't need a proof to prove he's lying, I use Umineko as its own proof.

So you don't have proof. He's lying because you want him to lie so you can believe your theory is right. Delusion.

> So how can Shannon get inside the Chapel, lock the door of the Chapel using the Chapel key AND THEN HAVE THAT SAID SAME CHAPEL KEY INSIDE THE BOILER ROOM WHERE KINZO IS?????

Because maybe she never entered the chapel and had someone to lie for her. Whatever, got anything else aside from this heavily twisted interpretation of yours?

> Why bother when I've proven the impossible?
> You don't understand the significance of what I've done.

Man, you sure have some euphoria going on there.
>>
>>102173365
Also, I seem to have forgotten the later portion of your post.

My bad, sorry, I got a little hot aired on the spot.

The family broke into the parlor and stayed together. They held all the keys. No one left the group and it's mentioned that they all stayed together until they got to the chapel and found Kanon. So none of the adults are possible accomplices to help Shannon.

All Shannon has at her disposal is herself and one masterkey (the one for Kanon)

She has nothing else.
The Chapel key is unique and is in the boiler room which is locked.

If Shannon opens the Boiler to get the Chapel key to lock the Chapel door, she leaves the Chapel key inside the Chapel rather than in the Boiler room.

The Chapel key was specifically found in the Boiler.
Not to mention that if Shannon left the Chapel key inside the Chapel, no one would have been able to unlock it since you specifically need the Chapel key as it is the only thing that can unlock it, as said in red.

There's also the issue that the door might not have been locked (similar to Ep2)
But this is complete invalided as Beatrice mentions that all 6 rooms are ''Beatrice's closed room'' which are all locked.
Not to mention the manga shows the family checking all the 6 rooms to find them locked before deciding to break into the parlor (the easiest spot to break in actually) to see what's inside which is how they get inside the loop.

It's truly impossible for Shannon to do by herself or by any possible means Ep 3's First Twilight.
Someone in the previous thread fucked me over with ''you can simply lock it from the inside idiot'' but this read from the manga disproves this possibility. As it shows that you specifically need the key to lock the Chapel which is in the Boiler room which is locked with no one being able to help Shannon.

>>102174391
Irrelevant, we've been over this.
It was from the point of view of Battler who self relates his viewpoint as not being valid.
>>
>>102174391

Erika never talked or mentioned seeing Shanon. All the time she was only talking to Kanon. The only ones that talk to Shanon are Battler and the rest when Erika is not around.
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>>102174616
>Because maybe she never entered the chapel and had someone to lie for her. Whatever, got anything else aside from this heavily twisted interpretation of yours?
For someone who says he trust the author, you sure as fuck don't trust the story
>guys guys, maybe the murder that happened didn't actually happen
Did you forget it was stated in red you fucking goat?

Again, you don't understand.
If Shannon is unable to enter the Chapel and lock it, we can go by it's most simplest conclusion.

Namely that Kanon and Shannon are both separate individuals and were simply killed.

Remember the entire argument in Umineko?
Two theories are put head in head, if one theory's foundations are broken, then they are placed in trial until one is better than the other.

Now, Rosatrice states that Kanon and Shannon are separated people with two bodies.
Shkannon says that they are one and the same.

Therefore, prove to me that Shannon was able to get into the Chapel, lock it without the help of any of the family members while having the Chapel key get into the Boiler room which is locked too when no one has any of the 5 keys (said in red) to open it. Nor can anyone escape to help Shannon since they all stayed together until they got to the Chapel, unlocked it and found Kanon.

You don't understand, it's a pure checkmate.
With this small fact, I've broken through Ryukishi's lie.

What do you think everyone?
>>
Just jumping into the discussion here but
Were the 6 linked rooms in EP3 actually locked?
I can't find any red text that confirms it.
>>
>>102175007

> For someone who says he trust the author, you sure as fuck don't trust the story

The story heavily implies Yasu has a sibling as a main accomplice to help her through the murders. If I remember correctly, Eva is the main accomplice in EP3, so if anything, she'd be manipulating everything according to Yasu's orders. This implies misleading the rest to think Shanon and/or Kanon are dead and in separate places.

> You don't understand, it's a pure checkmate.

Except that it's just this single, lonely and miserable twisted interpretation of yours vs. tons of other scenes scattered in the story that implies ShKanon, not to mention you refuse to look for anything else that might disprove your theory, which is why you cling so desperately to a single scene. You're making yourself look like an idiot.

> Rosatrice
> all this euphoria

Yeah, you go and delude yourself and vomit phrases from a parody of a mary sue, not like Ryukishi gives a fuck.
>>
>>102175364

I would have to reread episode 3 to check, which I am not in the mood right now to do so. What I do know is that episode 3 was made while Tohya recovered his memories as Battler, but he was in denial about the truth so he tried to blame it on Eva so clean Yasu out of all blame. However, it's useful to check Will's statements about episode 3.
>>
>>102175364
Nevermind, I found a line that may or may not have been taken out of context

>In short, all keys related to the linked closed rooms were locked inside the linked closed rooms!!
>>
>>102175364
Beatrice confirms that all of the six rooms are by definition ''Beatrice's closed room'' meaning there is no contact from the outside and are locked.

There is no red text but she refers it at such.
The family members also check all the five rooms and the chapel before deciding to break the parlor from the window because it's the easiest way in. The other two being in the 2nd floor, the other one being in the boiler room (no way in) and the other one being the Chapel which has a big ass door and nothing else.

It wouldn't be considered a closed room if the doors were not all locked.
She mentions that all 6 rooms (including the Chapel) are closed and locked.

The VN doesn't directly mentions the family members checking the doors to see if they are locked as Virgilla only mentions in passing that they were checked (which isn't much confirmation to be honest)
But the manga shows the family finding the magic circle, trying to open the door and checking all of them before breaking into the parlor.

>>102175453
You have nothing to contribute.

>Except that it's just this single, lonely and miserable twisted interpretation of yours vs. tons of other scenes scattered in the story that implies ShKanon, not to mention you refuse to look for anything else that might disprove your theory, which is why you cling so desperately to a single scene. You're making yourself look like an idiot.
Just say you don't know and give up.
Say a witch did it. Or stop thinking.

The answers are many and simply. Give up. Say Yasu used her magic to do it. Or maybe god did it, since you're so underaged to keep mentioning euphoria for some reason.
>>102175795
Will's statement only mentions ''the beggining and end overlap.
Although this would be a perfectly valid answer for Shannon to be Kanon (and having the beginning and end overlap since they are one and the same) there is no proof that Shannon could lock the door of the Chapel.
>>
>>102175978
No, Yasu did it. I'm going to go with the theory of her going into the chapel after Shanon's body was discovered, locking it from the inside, and playing dead as Kanon. To which you'll say:
>There is no way to lock the doors and windows without a key
And use that to say to say that locking it from the inside without a key is impossible.
But, the red truth also states that
>Furthermore, all of the doors and windows in the 6 rooms are normal.
In reference to the rooms where the murders happened. A door/window that can only be locked with the use of a key is abnormal, meaning that it is possible to lock it from the inside.
>>
>>102176520

There are doors not lockable from the inside are you retarded?
>>
Oh and here's a better version of Beatrice's closed room from the manga.
This, again, includes the Chapel, obviously.
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>>102176600
But they are normal doors. Why can't I lock ta normal door from the inside?
>>
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>>102175978

>Just say you don't know and give up.
You're the one clinging to a single scene thinking you solved the entire thing.

>Say a witch did it. Or stop thinking.
> Implying Yasu isn't a totally valid answer that doesn't involve magic
> Implying anything that isn't rosatrice is based on witches did it

You're trying to disprove a theory you don't even understand. It's really no worth trying to discuss with someone who's so asspained about their theory having little to no basis they have to argue and argue about a single scene.

>The answers are many and simply. Give up. Say Yasu used her magic to do it. Or maybe god did it, since you're so underaged to keep mentioning euphoria for some reason.

> He doesn't know the joke
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>>102176705
Irrelevant, just because a door is normal, or your definition or normal, does not preclude the fact that you absolutely need a key to lock the door.

This just puts you more in a pickle since it means that Shannon absolutely cannot lock the door from the inside, since it's impossible, by your reasoning, to lock it from the inside.
Therefore, only someone could lock Shannon in the Chapel and place the Chapel key inside the locked Boiler room without any of the 5 masterkey (the one Shannon had being held by the family and the one Kanon has being in the Chapel)
Not to mention someone, say Maria for example, could not get into the Boiler room, place the Chapel key inside the Boiler and 'lock'' the door (something you claimed is impossible but I'm going to use it to laugh at you with it) and hide, relocking the loop, since the red states ''no one was hiding''.

You're done.
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>>102176705

Why can you? both type of door are "normal", just because you can't lock a door from the inside doesn't make it abnormal
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>>102176818
Then explain how Yasu did ep 3 First Twilight.

Let's check the mystery scoreboard, shall we?

Rosatrice: able to explain how all the murders were performed
Shkannon : able to explain how all the murders were performed EXCEPT Ep 3 First Twilight.

Do I hear a winner?
I think I fucking do.

Everything else is circomstantial and subject to interpretation.
Ep 3's First Twilight isn't.

Solve it motherfucker.
Saying that ''well there are other shit that Yasu accounts for'' does not account for how Yasu could not have been able to do this shit.

You know what this is called?
A fucking logic error.
If you recall ep 6, Battler was fucked because he did something that was supposedly impossible to do and almost resigned as Gamemaster. The only solution being to do a retardedly impossible act, cut himself to pieces.

Now I'm asking the same thing from Yasu.
Solve the Logic error of Ep 3's First Twilight.

Calling me names just shows how much you have nothing to show.
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>>102177128
circumstantial*

I need sleep.
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>>102176909
>Irrelevant, just because a door is normal, or your definition or normal, does not preclude the fact that you absolutely need a key to lock the door.
Doesn't it? That was the entire basis of my arguement. A 'normal' door in this case refers to one that works the same as the non-murder room doors, which are lockable from the inside.
>>102177003
A 'normal' door is one which can be locked from the inside. I'm basing this on the fact that you can do this with other doors, meaning that if only these 6 rooms could not do this, they would not be a normal door.
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>>102177379
>which are lockable from the inside.
WRONG.

Again, said in red : THERE IS NO WAY TO LOCK THE DOOR AND WINDOW OF THE SIX ROOM WITHOUT A KEY

This means ''a normal door'' would not be actually locked if you clicked the bolt.

You are basing yourself on a gold truth, something weaker than a red truth.
You need a key to lock the door, there is no alternative.

Not to mention the fact that you need to show what normal is rather than use your interpretation that normal = all doors in the mansion.

Who's to say that all normal doors need to be opened by a key which is considered normal in every single mansion door?
You're basing yourself out of way out of this red truth by simply avoiding it, using a bolt.

Simple accept the truth, you need a key to lock the door. That simple.
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>>102177709
Also, now that I look at it, altough it would be normal for ''all the normal doors'' to be able to be locked by a bolt, this actually doesn't work due to the end of the red truth being ''of the six rooms without a key''.

This means that specifically those six rooms cannot be locked outside of a key, even if there is a bolt.
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>>102177709
>You are basing yourself on a gold truth, something weaker than a red truth.
No I'm not. This was stated in red. Also, gold is sometime stronger.
>Not to mention the fact that you need to show what normal is rather than use your interpretation that normal = all doors in the mansion.
Normal is based off of what the majority does in this case the majority of the doors in Rokkenjima. I'm quite certain that the majority of doors in the real world are lockable from the inside too, but I'll stick to Rokkenjima for now.
Here are some examples of 'normal' locks: when Erika tries to frame Natsuhi for the murders, Battler simply unlocks the window from the inside.
Beatrice regularly went around unlcoking windows in order to 'prove' her existence.
Also, in Bernkastel's game, the first and second twilights are done by the culprit locking themselves inside the murder room.
The last two probably aren't very good, but I'm feeling lazy.
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>>102178158
>Also, gold is sometime stronger.
No it isn't. Gold is only stronger when proving proof of something (such as proving that Kinzo is Kinzo) but not in overturning the red truth.

Again, just because normal happens in other places does not mean it works for those 6 rooms.

I'm going to go with what >>102177882 said here.
Those said 6 rooms need a key to be locked.
They may appear to be normal but being normal does not men it can be locked normally either.
You simply assumed that a normal door meant that they functioned like a normal door but it isn't the case since it is specifically specified that you need a key to lock those 6 rooms.

Or else, it would not be possible to say in red ''there is no way to lock the doors without a key'' since it would be possible to lock it with a bolt. If an alternative is possible, the red truth becomes impossible to say.

This is your mistake.
A normal door has the appearances of a normal door which functions, usually, as a normal door.
The key difference is that this is a normal door BUT THAT CAN ONLY BE LOCKED USING A KEY.

Berknastel's game are irrelevant and outside the gameboard and don't count.
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>>102178501
Ah screw, I don't feel like argueing with internet Erika any longer. Not that it will convivnce you of anything:
What I said was still red.
The reference about only being able to lock it with a key only occurs in the manga, it's worder differently in the VN. Source Material>Adaptation.
At the end, Erika and Battler directly contradict each other with the red truth. Explain that.
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>>102178718
It's ep 8, ain't got to explain shit.
Battler is said to be dead at the end, the fuck does anyone have to say to that one?
Or that Featherine can use the fucking red truth outside the meta?

Also, what you said was true, in red, but you're twisting the meaning of what ''normal'' means which isn't included in the red. The door is normal, yes, but is it also written in red that it's normal ''like all the other houses of the mansion which includes a bolt''? There's a lot of legway on your part imo.

Anyways, the reason I brought the manga is because I noticed that the wording was different and that those goddamn translation shit who read moonrune couldn't tell me it was suppose to be worded differently or have a different intonation or meaning, whatever the fuck that means. I have no ground to dispute them

The VN says autolock which is basically the exact same thing but with a weirder emphasis that lets the entire argument of ''a manual lock, not an autolock'' slip in whereas the manga is actually more direct and possible the better translation of the exact same red truth.

Hell, a bolt would still be considered an auto-lock, technically, since it automatically locks the door. But then you get faggots you bring in a manual lock and shit. So whatever.

Anyways I need to sleep.
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>>102178718
Oh wait, you're talking about Ep 6, when Battler used the red truth on Erika's red truth, right?

That's because Battler used his red truth to deny Erika's red truth.
It actually works for Rosatrice in an interesting way that works with the ''even if you join us, we would be 16'', or something like that.

Basically, it means that even if Erika comes in the game, the number of people does not increase. Because, well, she's dead. Or she would be dead upon arrival.

This a clever and ingenious way for Battler to close the gameboard. It's Battler basically showing and laying the red truth saying ''no other possible visitors are possible, there are only the ones presented in the gameboard and no one else''.

This is why there is a double red truth one after the other. I though you were talking about when Battler and Erika use the red truth at the end of ep 8 and shit.



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