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Why do harems consistently sell so well, while things like yuri don't?
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>>102098372
>harems consistently sell so well

Holy fucking shit are you stupid. Like, fuck. I just spent 5min laughing my goddam ass off.
>>
But they don't.
>>
They don't.
>>
I don't know, why would lonely losers buy something that allows them to self-insert into a person loved by many girls? Truly a mystery.
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>>102098372
>consistently sell so well
At least try to google shit before you make a thread.
>>
Thanks for the laughs OP.
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>>102098726
aren't monthly charts snk, klk, then 15 harems?
>>
Harems are safe anime.

They don't sell very well. But they probably won't sell too bad either, unless you make some horrible mistakes.

OP is a faggot.
He doesn't take kindly to strangers. But among friends, he wouldn't say no to a dick.
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>>102098810
Yes anon, you are right.
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>>102098810
Yeah, you're completely retarded.
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>>102098810
>then 15 harems?
At least look at a chart before you make retarded claims.
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>>102098810
In your bizarro world, maybe.
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Harems are self insert anime that sell to desperate teenagers. Like making a movie full of guns and a big shirtless macho man to a western audience. It's not going to break the box office, but it'll still pull in plenty of 12 year old kids and attention.
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>>102098372
Harems are GOOD and yuri is BAD
>>
Most harem sells like shit OP. for every successful harem series there are 5 that fail.
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>>102098989
You can say the same thing about romance and yuri too, and hey, superpower anime as well.
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>>102099015
More like 50 that fail.
>>
Serious question guys, can you name 5 harem that sold above 10k other than DxD and IS?

I honestly don't remember any other harem being that succesful?
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>>102098989
>It's not going to break the box office, but it'll still pull in plenty of 12 year old kids and attention.
Harems don't even do that much though.

>>102099163
Hell, name one that did over 5k.
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>>102099163
Bakemonogatari.
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>>102099163
Maybe this?
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Why do they keep making them then?
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>>102099163
Love Hina

(Ranma seems to have sold around 1k BDs for vol 1. Fuck, I'm almost mad)
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>>102099163

Urusei Yatsura, Ranma, Saber Marionette, Tenchi, Love Hina, Mahoromatic, Haruhi, Clannad, etc.

I'm not gonna say harems are super successful, but there's a reason Japan keeps trying to make them.
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>>102099222
>>102099226
Bakemono can be considered a harem but I don't think it's in the same vein as DxD or IS.
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>>102099163
If you're talking about averages, then DxD's first season averaged in a little below 10k.
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>>102098372
Those bras don't fit very well.
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>>102099445
>Haruhi,
Not a real harem.

>Ranma
You sure?
I just googled and got 1K.
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=613641
>>
>>102099427
>>102099445
Having to go back this far just shows how badly they sell.

Also
>Haruhi
>Clannad
>Mahoromatic despite being with MC then reincarnating and marrying him
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>>102099530

Blu rays are not the only thing they sold. Ranma started back in 1989. In the days of laserdisks.
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>>102099448
No, it's certainly not the same idea. If your criteria is just a show being a harem though, then it certainly counts.
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>>102099163
SAO
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>>102099743
Not a harem.
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>>102099199
>Hell, name one that did over 5k.
TLR?
>>
>>102099693
Even then that's still only 3 out of 5.
>>
Harem romcom is just a low risk genre. You're unlikely to bomb and occasionally you'll strike gold.

That's why every season has gorillion harem romcoms
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>>102099941
>occasionally you'll strike gold.
Nah.
Those hits listed here are pretty much all adaptations of hugely popular LNs and manga.
>>
>>102099530

>Haruhi,
>Not a real harem.

I love how people will argue up to high heaven about something being a harem simply because it has more than 2 girls. Then turn around and say 'its not a real harem' when the argument is convenient in the other direction.
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>>102099199
>one that did over 5k

Date a Live, Strike the Blood, Haganai, and Machine Doll all did better than 5k so far this year if you don't want to include DxD and IS. However later volumes will bring down the average of StB and Machine Doll.
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>>102099941
This, your average harem can sell between 2,5 and 5k
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>>102100024
You think /a/ is one person?
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>>102099941

>Harem romcom is just a low risk genre. You're unlikely to bomb and occasionally you'll strike gold.

Actually...no. The problem is entirely the reverse. There's only 1 successful harem for every 20-30 made. That's why they're making so many of them. They HAVE to make so many of them to cover their losses. Its like the fucking rap industry.
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>>102100042
Which is shit.
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>>102098372
Because yuri is probably the only thing worse than haremshit.
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>>102099909
Index and mahouka?
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>>102100110
>There's only 1 successful harem for every 20-30 made.
No, most harems at least get even.
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>>102100192
Everything with more than one girl is a harem?
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>>102100114
But will get a s2 instead of your favorite anime?
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>>102099454
>Machine Doll 5k
I don't understand.
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>>102100114
No it's not. About 3k is manabi line
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>>102100227
Only if more than 2 girls want the D
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>>102100192
>Index
>Mahouka

Fuck you're retarded.

>>102100267
My favorite anime had 3 seasons and an OVA series that ended with a marriage ceremony and a kid.
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>>102100295
Which part of "adaptation" don't you understand?
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>>102099909
Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime
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>>102100344
This favorite anime of yours seems interesting. What's it called?
>>
>>102100295
The first volume had some really nice items packaged with it, but from first to second volume it lost 1.8k and will finish with an average below 5k.
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>>102100344
>Index
>Not harem
What it this bullshit?
I don't know about mahouka.
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>>102100335
And manabi line is completely arbitrary.
There was ONE anime that supposedly broke even at those 3K.
But since all anime have different costs, and since anime are advertisements for other stuff, 3K means nothing at all.
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>>102100352
The shit adaptation part and judging by the anime I don't think the source material is good either.
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>>102100421
Index has a clear romantic target (BiriBiri), and pretty much no romantic content at all.

It's not a harem.
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>>102100424
Kill me baby probably turned profitable after the first disk was sold.
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>>102100335
>About 3k is manabi line
Yes, which was a SoL series that broke even and even then that was fucking years ago. It's nowhere near the same economic climate.
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>>102100489
Fans tend to buy the anime of their favorite LN.

It's the only reason why IS sells so stupidly well.
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>>102100410
Electric Boogaloo.
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>>102100494
More than 3 girls want the Touman, it's an harem
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>>102100424
Even with different budgets, your average 1 cour seasonal anime breaks even around 3k. And most harems get to that level.
And the manabi line still holds value because studios plan around those numbers. A studio making an average seasonal anime with an average budget expects sales numbers in that dimention to make average profits.
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>>102100573

And why the vast majority of anime is adaptations of manga/novels/games, not original creations from studios. As GONZO quickly found out.
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>>102100494
Then TLR is a Love triangle because only 2 girls are romantic target
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>>102100635
>studios plan around those numbers.
Studios get a budget for a show depending on their reputation. Studios use that budget.
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>>102100668
>>Nearly ever female character wants Rito's cock.
>>Not a harem
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>>102100756
Yeah that why i'm using that example
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>>102100600
Only one of them makes regular appearances:
Misaka.

And don't mention Index. She's a pet, nothing else.
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>>102100635
>And the manabi line still holds value because studios plan around those numbers.
No, committees give studios a budget based on reputation and other shit. It's why Yuasa was crying about no longer being trusted a while ago.
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>>102100668
>pretty much no romantic content at all.
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>>102100723
Naturally, with higher budget compared to the average, you expect better sales compared to the average.
Sunrise wouldn't be satisifed with 3-5k sales for Valvrave, but those numbers would probably be okay for Buddy Complex.
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>>102100955
Of course. But that just means that the Manabi line is even more pointless.
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>>102100883
So you're going to deny characthers to make your point valid ?
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>>102101014
I disagree, because I think you can quite easily tell if a show was made to just fill a timeslot in a season or to be a blockbuster anime raking in big sales.
And for the former type of anime, it's a pretty good indicator if you can expect more or not.
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>>102101062
Even with Index (who doesn't want his cock anyway) it'd be just 2 girls.
Where is that harem you speak of?
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>>102101014
It has always been pointless. The whole Manabi Line thing is a pointless meme. Same as the fags that are using "Fractales".
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>>102101131
Frt at least is useful to poke fun at an arrogant asshole.
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>>102101131
Manabi line is an actual thing you retard.
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>>102101250
No, it's not. A director saying "Hey, we broke even on this specific product" does not mean it's the same for all others.
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>>102101119
Misaka
Misaka Clone
Index
Kanzaki
Himegami
Mizaki
Itsuwa
Lessar and a lot that i already forgot
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>>102101450
I said regular appearances.
You can't have a harem with people that only meet once per season.
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>>102101517
Why not?
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>>102101575
Because a harem would be about their relationship.
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>>102101367
Well yeah, but the fact that shows getting over that line get a second season and the ones below it don't gives it value.
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>>102101719
That's not a fact though.
Do your research.
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>>102101719
>but the fact that shows getting over that line get a second season
Except they don't. Stop being so fucking retarded.
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>>102101632
A harem is just a situation where one dude has some kind of amorous or sexual relationship with three or more girls. It's an incredibly vague genre that does little to tell you about the content of the show on its own, though shows who focus on the harem aspect tend to follow certain trappings.
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>>102101632
>Harem
>Relationship
u wot m8?
>>
>>102101517
But that doesn't change the fact that those girls are in love with Touma,and that make Index an harem, it's the same with Monogatari
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>>102101833
>>102101863
Obviously it's not absolutely set in stone. I already said it's an indicator. And unless you're like, some sort of special project or an adaption of a hugely popular manga/VN, you generally won't get shit if you sell less.
And if you sell more, you have fair chances of continuation. It just happens time and time again. I don't think you realize how many shows fail to meet that line every season. If you get above it, the studio has faith and generally produces more sooner or later.
>>
Yuri is already surpassing harems in sales. Yuru Yuri Railgun Saki Girls und Pandzer and Madoka all sold brilliantly. I hope studios will catch on and stop making these garbage harem series. Yuri is better because all of the characters don't have to be in love with one guy. You can have multiple relationships without Otaku sperging out.
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>>102102067
>So much useless shit in this post

Should've just said >"If you sell a lot there /might/ be a sequel"
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>>102102198
Yeah, and the manabi line is a good indicator of what constitutes as a lot. Selling in the 3k-5k region is a success.
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>>102102195
Congratulations on naming as many successful Yuri shows as there are successful harems.
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>>102102280
Those are all from recent years.

However, with the exception of Yuru Yuri (and possibly Madoka) they did not sell as yuri shows.
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>>102102341
Damnit, I missed Saki in the list. Now I look like a moron.
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>>102099530
In what way is Haruhi not a harem? Harems don't have to be ecchi.
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>>102102419
It's just people telling to themselves "i don't watch haremshit my taste is great!"
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>>102102419
Only Haruhi and Mikuru are presented in any kind of romantic or sexual light.
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>>102102280
They are all recent though. If you want to bring up successful harems you need to go back farther.
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>>102102542
PUUUULEEEEAAAAASE
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>>102102542
Did you forget to watch disappearance? Yuki wants that dick hard.
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>>102102610
Alternate Yuki. The real one doesn't. And since Mikuru isn't exactly a feature in the altered world, there are still only two at that time.
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>>102102547
But DXD,IS and Monogatari are recent too
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>>102102547
DxD and Date a Live sold more than Saki and Yuru Yuri along with IS selling more than Railgun. That's not even bringing in Monogatari.
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>>102098372
>Why do harems consistently sell so well
My sides.

>http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/101690915/#101690915
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>>102102547
What about Oreimo? that shit sold a lot too
>>
Harem anime in the way I think of it is about a MC who is constantly surrounded by cute girls that want his dick, with no actual plot (and if there is it's some asspull bullshit that's only in a few episodes). Shows like Index and Monogatari have harems but shouldn't be called part of the harem genre.
>>
>>102103008
Than you don't understand what the harem genre is. It really is just "it has a harem".
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>>102103008
Having Harems is enough to enter in the Harem genre
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>>102103008
>Shows like Index and Monogatari have harems but shouldn't be called part of the harem genre.
Why, because you like them and don't want to admit that having a lot of cute girls lusting after the self-insert MC dick is a plus to pretty much every show?
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>>102102810
I didn't really explain myself properly. Certainly older harems continue to get sales with new seasons but nothing recent in the harem genre has been that big. Like if you look at new harems that aren't second seasons in the past 2 years what has succeeded? Just Date a Live.

I think the harem genre used to do well certainly and you can see that in repeated seasons of monogatari selling well but nothing is looking to take that mantel.

>>102102981
That was a harem for 1 novel or probably about 2 episodes. People watched it for the romance.
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>>102102542
You might actually be retarded. Haruhi, Mikuru, Yuki, and Koizumi all want Kyon's dick in as many holes as they can fit it, and they're all harem archetypes. They map perfectly onto DxD characters, even the femmy fag:

Haruhi = Rias
Mikuru = Asia
Yuki = Koneko-chan
Koizumi = Yuto

The only way it deviates from the normal harem setup is that Kyon is a sourpuss and pretends not to like being surrounded by people wanting to inhale his junk.
>>
>>102103008
Then you're a retard, Monogatari is not like a regular harem but doesn't change the fact that it's one, same with index,
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>>102103158
Nah it's clearly an harem, it doesn't matter if people watch something for the romance or comedy
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>>102103342
It is as much a harem as Sakura Trick is an action show because in one episode they had to jump from the balconies. There was zero fucking time spend on the harem. It was just one volume where he had an apartment. I would put it at 1/30 of oreimo being a harem.
>>
>>102103172
Calling me retarded doesn't make it so. If you wish to establish that Yuki and Koizumi want to have sex with Kyon, you're welcome to explain why you think that to be the case.

>>102103342
>an harem
This has happened three times this thread. What's the deal?
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>>102103460
How many girls wanted Kyosuke's D?
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>>102103460
>There was zero fucking time spend on the harem. It was just one volume where he had an apartment. I would put it at 1/30 of oreimo being a harem.
Are you fucking serious?

>>102103470
> If you wish to establish that Yuki and Koizumi want to have sex with Kyon, you're welcome to explain why you think that to be the case.
You know, watching a show before you discuss it on /a/ helps a lot.
>>
>>102103470
>>an harem
>This has happened three times this thread. What's the deal?
He's French.
>>
>>102103206
Monogatari is a love triangle at best, not a harem.
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>>102103158
There's hardly anything in all of anime that could hope to take the mantel of monogatari when it comes to sales, not just another harem.
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>>102103633
How
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>mfw seeing people get super defensive about people calling their totally sophisticated chinese cartoons harems when they're literally dripping with cute girls lusting after the MC's cock in varying degrees
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>>102103633
>love triangle
>at least three girls clearly wanting his dick
>about five others hinting that possibility
How is that not a harem again?
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>>102103633
>Bat
>Cat
>Snake
>Crab
>Phoenix
>Monkey
Not harem
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>>102103470
There is an entire movie about how much Yuki wanted Kyon's D. As for Koizumi, he is ineffably eager to please Kyon despite the latter's constant grumpiness, and he spends the entire show smiling at him or giving him bedroom eyes.
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>>102103801
Not to mention he constantly seeks physical intimacy with Kyon (which annoys that one greatly) and loves to tease him in what can very easily be called a flirty manner.
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>>102103689
The only 2 girls lusting for him are Senjougahara (his current girlfriend) and Hanekawa (his former crush, whose confession he rejected because of aforementioned girlfriend).

>>102103735
>three girls
I count 2.
Snail is a ghost and never had any real plans for staying with Araragi because she knew her time was up.

Bat's claims on Araragi don't really fit into a romantic relationship. At any rate she has absolutely no intention of competing for him romantically with other women.

Snake just had her memories of him wiped, and in any case she was never really in love with him at all. It was part of her psychosis.

Crab and Cat, see above.

Phoenix and Bee are both his sisters and have boyfriends of their own.

Monkey is a lesbian and is after Crab.

So yeah, by my count there's only 2.
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>>102103727
This,seriously what the fuck people understand that just because says harem doesn't make it bad,don't be so autistic
>>
>>102103727
Only on /a/.
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>>102103906
>Snake just had her memories of him wiped, and in any case she was never really in love with him at all.
My sides
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>>102103727
Yeah, I just came back to this thread after playing Lost Planet 2 for a bit and I'm laughing my ass off.
>>
>>102103906
Sucking blood is a romantic thing to vampires. When she sucked his blood she basically made him into her lover.
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>>102103906
>Snake just had her memories of him wiped, and in any case she was never really in love with him at all. It was part of her psychosis.
You heard it here first, yandere doesn't count.
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>>102103801
>>102103859
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThIs-MSH3Fw
>>
>>102103906
>Monkey is a lesbian and is after Crab.
Haha... At the least she's bi, and at the most, she's converted straight.
>>
>>102103906
>Phoenix and Bee are both his sisters and have boyfriends of their own.
Boyfriends that are araragi clones
do you even anime?
>>
>>102103550
For half of the series? One. For the majority of the second half? Two. In one Volume? A whole bunch.

For the record I hated OreImo I just think you're wrong.
>>
>>102103801
>There is an entire movie about how much Yuki wanted Kyon's D.
As I explained earlier, alter Yuki isn't the same as regular Yuki.

>As for Koizumi, he is ineffably eager to please Kyon despite the latter's constant grumpiness, and he spends the entire show smiling at him or giving him bedroom eyes.
Since "please" in this case doesn't mean "render sexual favours", I don't see how this is evidence for actual romance.

>>102103859
His teasing is clearly just that. I don't know why you think it implies romantic desires.

>>102103906
>Bat's claims on Araragi don't really fit into a romantic relationship.
Would you deny that she loves him?

>Snake just had her memories of him wiped
And there was a large portion of the show in which she did have her memories.

>in any case she was never really in love with him at all. It was part of her psychosis.
That doesn't matter.

>Phoenix and Bee are both his sisters
They are brocons.

>have boyfriends of their own.
Heh.
>>
>>102103989
>>102104045
I know Monogatari can be hard to follow sometimes, but really, guys. They even restated this several times. She never loved him, never even had a real reason to love him. She simply clung to him because an unrequited love is easier than the real thing. She never wanted a real love in the first place.

>>102104043
That's not really what their relationship is about. Their souls are linked and as long as they are together Araragi is immortal. Which is why Shinobu has no real interest in competing for him. She just has to wait and eventually he'll be alone with her.
>>
>>102102195
>>>/u/
This is true in regular hetero romance.

also
>People forgetting love triangles are essentially a harem of 2.
>>
>>102104172
She is fine with a hands off approach but she definitely loves him. I mean at one point she considers destroying the world because he doesn't find her when she runs away. No girl loves him more than she does.
>>
>>102104172
>I know Monogatari can be hard to follow sometimes, but really, guys. They even restated this several times. She never loved him, never even had a real reason to love him. She simply clung to him because an unrequited love is easier than the real thing. She never wanted a real love in the first place.
That's besides the point, she was still lusting after him.
>>
>>102104161
>I don't know why you think it implies romantic desires.
That's missing the point. It doesn't matter what you or I think, the fact of the matter is that it could very well be interpretated as such, you don't even need yaoi-goggles.

>AI RABU
>>
>>102104172
But is heavily implied that snake was in love with araragi since she was a little girl playing with him and Phoenix
>>
>>102104252
>That's besides the point, she was still lusting after him.
But she never intended to succeed, deep down she never wanted to be with him and was just using unrequited infatuation to remain alone indefinitely. Kaiki broke it down pretty nicely. For Sengoku, loving Araragi was a fantasy that allowed her to avoid actually falling in love with somebody and having to deal with that. Her love for him was baseless and she knew it, actually pursuing it was futile and she knew it.

>>102104247
There's no question she loves him, but I'm saying it's not exactly a romantic relationship and it's not exactly lust that drives her. It's more like he's her reason for living.
>>
>>102104419
>But she never intended to succeed, deep down she never wanted to be with him and was just using unrequited infatuation to remain alone indefinitely. Kaiki broke it down pretty nicely. For Sengoku, loving Araragi was a fantasy that allowed her to avoid actually falling in love with somebody and having to deal with that. Her love for him was baseless and she knew it, actually pursuing it was futile and she knew it.
Nigga you're getting plot and PLOT mixed up, there were still lewd scenes with snake with here going after the guy, that happened and none of the story can change that. I actually like monogatari but it had a fuck load of fanservice and heavy harem tones you can't ignore that.
>>
>>102104414
Did you even pay attention? Everybody she told that to said it was completely ridiculous reason to fall in love, that it made no sense to fall in love for that and stay in love all those years over something so trivial. And it turned out they were right. She clung to that childhood crush because it was easier than a real relationship.
>>
>>102104419
>But she never intended to succeed,
That doesn't matter. Every harem is full of girls with no intention to actually win. The playfull teaser is a very common type.
>>
>>102104227
>People forgetting love triangles are essentially a harem of 2.
Not really. Love triangles are usually written different and don't have the typical harem hijinks. Ex: Macross.
>>
>>102098372

Generic harems don't tend to do well without a lot of fanservice, or at least some other element. Like, IS sold in part because it had an action element to make Ichika seems slightly less worthless.
>>
>>102098372
>Why do harems consistently sell so well
This is the biggest misconception I've read all week
>>
>>102104161
Yuki stops wearing glasses because Kyon finds her cuter without them. This is emphasized when she takes them off the instant she syncs with her future self during the first instance of time travel in the series. If you're utterly dense, then it's possible to miss the fact that Yuki is characterized by a unique affection and closeness for Kyon in her normally cold self. Otherwise, it should be obvious, as it is hammered home continually.

>His teasing is clearly just that. I don't know why you think it implies romantic desires.
Really? You don't see how flirting demonstrates sexual or romantic interest?

All the (mostly female) main characters display tremendous affection and concern for the male MC. It's a harem, you deluded imbecile.
>>
>>102104533
Yeah and you have even more ridiculous girls that fall in love with the mc because he is "nice" with her, it's like you don't even watch anime
>>
>>102103172

Mikuru is highly ambiguous.
>>
>>102098372
Yuri-fan boys are fukin annoying. you guys should go back to your fuckin containment center here:
>>/u/
>>
>>102104620
Being close friends isn't necessarily indicative of romance, anon.

>you deluded imbecile
Oh, I'm sorry for not agreeing. I'll stop talking now.
>>
>>102104505
All she did was indulge her fantasy, there was no actual intent behind her actions to get with Araragi. There was never any possibility of a relationship between them at any rate. So I don't see how you can call her a harem girl when she neither wanted to be with him nor could have ever been with him in the first place.

>>102104538
>Every harem is full of girls with no intention to actually win.
This is false. A harem needs multiple ambiguous relationships, as in relationships which waver between simple friendship/association and romance. Generally harems have a frontrunner for the winning girl, but other routes need to exist or there's no tension, unless the MC is the type to cheat on his girlfriend.

Which, by the way, Araragi is not. He has a girlfriend, let's not forget, and actually turned down a second girl who confessed to him, even though it was a girl he had admired for years and who he idolized as a paragon of beauty. He turned THAT down to stay faithful to his girlfriend. Nadeko never had a chance in hell.
>>
>>102104653
Future Mikuru or present Mikuru? Not that it matters, since their interests in Kyon are spectacularly overt.

Young Mikuru: I want your cock Kyon, but Haruhi will destroy the world if she thinks you like me back.
Older Mikuru: Please blow a hot load on my tits, Kyon.

>>102104822
>close friends
Yes, please do refrain from talking anymore.
>>
>>102104885
>This is false. A harem needs multiple ambiguous relationships, as in relationships which waver between simple friendship/association and romance.

No, THIS is false. A harem needs a bunch of girls (generally 3 or more) and one guy as a potential love interest for them. That's it. It's not a complex genre.
>>
>>102105014
>and one guy as a potential love interest for them
Which differs from
>multiple ambiguous relationships, as in relationships which waver between simple friendship/association and romance
How, exactly? It's the same thing I said in less detail. There need to be multiple possible routes.
>>
>>102105062
Because there don't need to be multiple routes.
>>
>There's people on /a/ who thinks that Index and Monogatari are not harem.

B-b-ut muh taste!
>>
>>102105132
Multiple POSSIBLE routes. As in, the a viable relationship has to be possible with more than one girl or there's no real drama. It doesn't even have to be a fullblown boy/girlfriend relationship since for some character types that's not possible. But it does have to be romantic and preferably intimate. That's what is meant by a route.

If there's no possibility of that kind of development between MC-kun and a girl, she's not in his harem.
>>
>>102105184
It's sometimes difficult to distinguish between harem anime and anime where the lead character has a harem but are not actually part of the harem genre. Love Hina is clearly the former; Code Geass is clearly the latter. Index and Monogatari fall somewhere in between.
>>
>>102105252
>As in, the a viable relationship has to be possible with more than one girl or there's no real drama.
Yeah, you don't need that. Ambiguous relationships are not the only way to keep a story interesting.

>If there's no possibility of that kind of development between MC-kun and a girl, she's not in his harem.
Of course she is. If you had a show with one MC and 10 girls an none of them love the MC and neither does the MC love anyone of them, that's still a harem. One that could potentially very boring without other elements to make it interesting, but it's still a harem.
>>
>>102105184
Monogatari doesn't even have a harem. Index has multiple harems, but they exist to the periphery of the story and are only used for laughs now and then.
>>
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>>102105310
Just admit you like harems.
>>
>>102105412
>Ambiguous relationships are not the only way to keep a story interesting.
Moving the goalposts. We are talking about defining a harem, not an interesting show.

> If you had a show with one MC and 10 girls an none of them love the MC and neither does the MC love anyone of them, that's still a harem.
This is so wrong and it's pretty clear now you have no idea what a harem is.
>>
>>102105310
It's easy if you get rid of Harem = Shit
>>
>>102105310
It's not difficult to distinguish between harem anime and "anime where the lead character has a harem but are not actually part of the harem genre". What you need to realize is that shows rarely confine to one genre. Code Geass is a mecha drama harem alternate history supernatural tragedy thriller show.
>>
>>102105412
>If you had a show with one MC and 10 girls an none of them love the MC and neither does the MC love anyone of them, that's still a harem.
>Yotsuba is a harem
>>
>>102105488
A harem is a guy and a bunch of girls. It's that simple.
>>
>>102105541
The harem aspect in Geass was, like, not even 1% of the content. You might as well call it a loli show because two of the characters were lolis.
>>
>>102105417
>Monogatari doesn't even have a harem.
Yes it have and that prove my point of >muh taste
>>
>>102105600
>Saki is a harem
>>
>>102105600
>A harem is a guy and a bunch of girls that show romantic interest in the guy. It's that simple.

Fixed that for you.
>>
>>102105600
No it's not. You are demonstrably wrong.

>>102105632
I've already explained in detail why it's not. It's a love triangle story at best.
>>
>>102105600
They have to have love interests, genius. Otherwise >>102105599
>>
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>>102105541
>Code Geass is a mecha drama harem alternate history supernatural tragedy thriller show.

And that's why it was the greatest anime ever.
>>
>>102105600
>A harem is you're mum and a bunch of guys
fixed
>>
>>102105599
Are you implying Yotsuba is not the main character?
>>
>>102105600
No, a harem is what this guy said >>102105684
>>
>>102105600
It's not a harem unless the girls are after the guy. The guy can be dense as fuck and totally oblivious to the girls, but if there's no interest in him he's not a harem lead.
>>
>>102105600
>A harem is a guy and a bunch of girls. It's that simple.

by that logic, Sailor Moon is a harem.
>>
>>102105184
I think it was mostly just the one idiot who seems to think a show is only a harem when three or more girls overtly confess to the MC, then go on several dates spanning a number of episodes, and just generally have a grand old Mormon time. I think he's confusing the word "harem" for "polygamy".
>>
>>102105714
Where did anybody say the guy has to be the main character? A harem doesn't need the male to be the main character. See Index. Besides Touma, there are 3 other males with harems and they're all side characters.
>>
>>102105739
Yeah like say gj bu is not a harem but something like Index is.
>>
>>102105682
All that thing that you "explained" it's just you trying to put monogatari aside of the harem genre because you think that Harem = Shit
>>
>>102105739
>implying Non Non Biyori isn't Suguru's harem
>>
>>102105675
The guy obviously being the MC.

>>102105609
I'd say Kallen, CC, Shirley, Nunally, Rolo and Kaguya being heavily interested in Lelouch took up quite a bit of content
>>
Now I finally understand the reason for those minor male characters in otherwise purely female casts.

They were all harems!
>>
>>102105803
Gj-bu is 100% harem, though.
>>
>>102105847
Don't forget Suzaku.
>>
>>102105800
>Where did anybody say the guy has to be the main character?
I said that, in the post that was quoted, here >>102105412
>>
>>102105913
They don't like him romantically
>>
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>>102105907
You weren't supposed to find out.
>>
>>102105929
We already established that guy is wrong.
>>
>>102105907
K-on is really a harem involving Ritsu's brother. I truly see the light now.
>>
>>102105252
>Harems require romance
By your definition, DxD is not a harem, since Rias is the only true romantic interest. You're a moron. Stop posting, you fucking retard.
>>
>>102105907
But I thought guys disappeared from the world of Saki if they touched a woman?
>>
>>102105989
>>102105907

Well hey, now you realize how fanatic yuri goggles look to us normal folk.
>>
Oh and don't forget that One Piece is a reverse harem with Nami in the center.

Robin is Sunohara
>>
>>102105813
If you're going to troll put some more effort into it. I already explained why Araragi doesn't have a harem (unless you consider 2 girls to be a harem).
>>
>>102106040
>Pot, meet kettle
>>
>>102106040
>Rias is the only true romantic interest
I've never watched DxD, but if this statement is true, then it's not a harem. I don't see the problem.
>>
>>102105428
Oh my god that show was so bad. Only show I've abandoned after watching eight or more episodes.
>>
>>102106040
Never seen it, but if he has only one romance interest then it's not a harem. If there are no other girls interested in him, there's no way you can call it a harem.
>>
>>102106103
No, you didn't. For one, you said monkey has no interest in him, when she tells him herself she wants to be his mistress, then takes off his clothes.
>>
>>102098810
Most harems don't sell like IS did anon
>>
>>102106137
What was it you didn't like?
>>
>>102106103
I'm not trolling, i read all of your explanations and it's you deluding yourself , even if we count snake out you have the rest of the girls who want the D aswell
>>
>>102106040
But DxD is even going for the harem ending.
>>
>>102105984
It's not wrong.
You need to understand that there is virtually no 'pure' harem anime or manga.

People here seem to think romantic interest is required for a harem - it's not. You just see romance in pretty much every harem because it would be waste not to include it. You have a main character and a bunch of pretty girls around him, having romance subplots is only naturally. But again, it's not required.
A show with a male MC and like 5 pretty girls around them with no romance whatsoever is still harem. Like, it could be a comedy harem and they do goofy shit all day. Or a drama harem when somethin terrible happens to them. The list goes on.

Bottom line: romance is not required. Male MC + 3 or more girls constantly around him = harem.
>>
>>102106169
>what is teasing
She's a lesbian with a crush on his girlfriend. She's also pretty perverted.
>>
>>102105847
>'d say Kallen, CC, Shirley, Nunally, Rolo and Kaguya being heavily interested in Lelouch took up quite a bit of content

Not really nor all in the way you're suggesting though.
>>
>>102106127
>>102106152
The Mc is in love with 1 girl but there are like 9 who are after mc's dick
>>
>>102106217
Sorry but you're wrong. Harem gets it's name from a group of women kept as sex partners for a single man. If the girls have no interest in the guy, it's not a harem.
>>
>>102106217
You just removed all meaning from the word.
Harem now only means male MC with mixed cast.

Now we need a new word to describe harems.
Or... wait...
We could use the one we already have and disregard your stupid definition.
>>
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>>102106217
>A show with a male MC and like 5 pretty girls around them with no romance whatsoever is still harem.
I don't know why you keep on showing us how retarded you are, but please control yourself.
>>
>>102106217
... what is this retardation?
>>
>>102106217
Shut the fuck up retard we all already established the definition and then you just waltz in here with your dumbass definition that goes against ours and then you treat it like fact like a smug asshole which pisses me off. I hope you fucking die.
>>
>>102106217
>A show with a male MC and like 5 pretty girls around them with no romance whatsoever is still harem
No it's not, if those girls have romatic feelings for that guys then it's an harem
>>
>>102099454
>Aku no Hana, C3 and Coppelion all sold less than 350
Fuck yes, holy shit that makes me happy.

Sucks Dansai is so low too though
>>
>>102106266
Okay that means this statement, "Rias is the only true romantic interest" is misleading. To amend it, you'd say that "Rias is the only one the MC is interested in." It's still perfectly valid the other way around.
>>
>>102106266
>The Mc is in love with 1 girl
He's in love with all of them and makes promises to either spend the rest of his life with them, have children with them and in the case of Koneko, to make her his wife when her body matures.
>>
>>102106266
That's a harem then. The MC's feelings are irrelevant, really, because they are subject to change. That's part of the drama in a harem. As long as he's not in a formal relationship, he's still technically available. Harems where the MC has a girlfriend tend to make him look like a huge asshole if he doesn't remain totally oblivious or if he doesn't turn down the girls who approach him.

But if the MC is unattached, it's fine if he has a crush on one girl in particular as long as he's still susceptible to advances from other girls.
>>
>>102106298

Yeah. Urusei Yatsura has a large cast, but only Lum likes Ataru. Whereas with Ranma, he had like five or six bitches after him, which definitely qualifies for a harem while Urusei Yatsura does not.
>>
>>102106418
>you'd say that "Rias is the only one the MC is interested in."
It's the only one he's in love with. He's interested in all of them. And he does lewd stuff with most of them.

Rias doesn't seem to be against the harem route.
>>
NTRing a harem is the best feeling ever.
>>
>>102105491
Guys is really easy know what show enter in the harem genre you just need 2 things
This >>102105491
and this >>102105684
>>
>>102106477
Well shit man. "Rias is the only one the MC genuinely loves at heart." Does that work?
>>
>>102106504
Don't you have a Plebpanda thread to shitpost in?
>>
>>102106406
Everybody already knew all that, get the fuck out tripfag. Worse than everyone else in this thread.
>>
>>102106551
It's in another tab.
>>
>>102106217
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem
>>
>>102106310
>You just removed all meaning from the word.
>Harem now only means male MC with mixed cast.

Guess what: harem is not a very descriptive term. Why do you think people were even arguing in this thread whether or not stuff like Bake or Haruhi can be called harem?
Harem elements in anime/manga are like RPG elements in video games - they're everywhere, because they're a very basic thing. Basic things like one MC with a bunch of girls around him (and little to no additional male characters around him, I admit I should have clarified that earlier).

>>102106368
You'd think romantic subplots would be more of a thing for, you know, romance genre.

And frankly I'm a little disappointed how many people here know so little about genres in a medium they supposedly claim to be knowledgeable about.

Just because harem and romance elements are extremely often coupled doesn't mean one requires the other to work.
>>
>>102106537
I'll correct him and say that She's the one he values most. She's the head girl, the wife. The other girls shall remain mistresses/fwbs. But when it comes down everything else, She's the leader of the harem.
>>
>>102106113
What is your objection exactly?

>>102106127
The problem is that you think harem is a sub-genre of romance that involves having multiple simultaneous romantic relationships. In reality, all it requires is multiple girls surrounding a male MC while showing undue interest and attraction in him (i.e. a fucking harem).

For example:
http://myanimelist.net/anime.php?genre[]=35

It's like you're willfully disregarding what everyone else means when they say "harem" and trying to substitute in some nonsense personal definition that would exclude the vast majority of shows that everyone else considers a harem just so you can cling to the belief that you don't watch or don't like harems. What shows do you consider harems, exactly?
>>
>>102106653
Put a trip on so I can filter you.
>>
>>102106622
Oh we're linking to wiki now?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem_%28genre%29
>Harem, hāremumono (ハーレムもの?), broadly, is an ambiguously-defined subgenre of anime and manga characterized by a protagonist surrounded, usually amorously, by three or more members of the opposing sex and/or love interests.

Note the 'usually amorously' and how they make a distinction between 'members of the opposing sex' and 'love interests'
>>
>>102106653
>Why do you think people were even arguing in this thread whether or not stuff like Bake or Haruhi can be called harem?
Because people are retarded?
>>
>>102098372
Because yuri is cancer and you should kill yourself
>>
>>102106653
>(and little to no additional male characters around him, I admit I should have clarified that earlier).
And that removes a lot of legit harem titles from the list.
Your definition is getting more and more stupid.

>Harem elements
You've reduced it to 2. One of them objectively wrong. The other one insufficient.
>>
>>102106688
>The problem is that you think harem is a sub-genre of romance that involves having multiple simultaneous romantic relationships.
No I don't.

>In reality, all it requires is multiple girls surrounding a male MC while showing undue interest and attraction in him (i.e. a fucking harem).
Yes.

We've already established that your statement was very misleading.
>>
>>102106217
Index proves your entire definition is shit.

There are multiple harems in the same story. You have no less than 4 male characters who each have large groups of female characters interested in them. They have harems, and those harems are defined by one man with multiple romantic interests.

Your definition is bunk.
>>
>>102106181
Man, it's been a while, but I just remember it being painfully stupid. Goemon was the only aspect I liked. I think I remember the MC being really grating, and the reasons for everyone wanting his dick seemed especially vaporous, even by harem standards.
>>
>>102106773
>And that removes a lot of legit harem titles from the list.
I don't think so. What legit harems are removed by that? And please keep in mind we're talking about important characters here. If the story is 99% about the MC and his 3 female friends, it doesn't matter if there are 1238 additional dudes who each spoke a line in the background once.
>>
>>102106653
>harem is not a very descriptive term.
A dude who has 3+ girls interested in him romantically and/or sexually. That's descriptive enough.

Your "definition" completely ignores the historical origin of the word and what it is commonly used for and is also pants-on-head retarded.
>>
>>102106905
Ranma, for one.
>>
>>102106905
Well for one, that removes DxD as Ise has a male harem and comes in contact with them frequently.
>>
>>102106688
>The problem is that you think harem is a sub-genre of romance that involves having multiple simultaneous romantic relationships
That guy isn't me, but nobody said this. I keep saying that harem is a genre where there need to be multiple women attracted to the harem lead, which leads to them having ambiguous relationships with him. Having a harem lead get into a straight romantic relationship with a girl tends to dismantle the harem scenario and turn it into something else, unless he's the kind who cheats.
>>
>>102106928

Nourin wouldn't be a harem right now, unless you count Becky (but she's a gag character unfortunately). Definitely a love triangle going on.
>>
>>102106905
clannad
>>
>>102106940
To be fair to the other guy. Ranma being a harem.... is eh.

It's more like a big tangly spiders web of connections...
>>
>this entire thread

so, if harem sells like shit, why do they keep making them?
>>
>>102106653
>and little to no additional male characters around him
By this definition Index is not a harem. Even though it has multiple harems. You are retarded.
>>
>>102106940
Now it's been a while since I watched Ranma so correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the main characters just Ranma, his girlsfriends and Ryouga? There are plenty of males, but they're generally supporting cast. It's a long-running manga, naturally it accumulates a big number of characters.
>>
>We've already established that your statement was very misleading.
I don't know what you're talking about; you probably have me confused for a different anon. Also, "we" have not established anything. You're promulgating some horseshit definition of harem that seems to be you impression of shows that you consider harem but haven't seen so that you can distance the shows you enjoy from that label.
>>
>>102107075
"BECAUSE OF STUPID OTAKU SELFINSERTS DUH"
>>
>>102107069
Ranma is a fucking harem. It's not a Negima-big harem, but it's big enough.
>>
>>102107075
Not selling well != sells like shit
>>
>>102107075
Because they sell
>>
>>102107075
Read the bloody thread.
>>
>>102107160
What's the explanation that is not targeted at stupid Americans?
>>
>>102106653
You're trying very hard to ignore the fact that harem has always been used to describe romantic relationships toward a guy. Always. That's the fucking origin of the word.
>>
>>102107149
Males Ranma has regular contact with:
Mousse,
Ryoga,
His father,
Happosai,
Akane's father,
Kuno Tatewaki
>>
>>102107061
Please, the main characters are one guy and like 5 girls.
>>
>>102107159
What in the world are you on about?

The original statement was "Rias is the only true romantic interest." As someone who has never seen the show, I (and other people) interpreted this (a natural interpretation I'd wager) as meaning that only Rias and MC had any sort of romantic interest in each other. It turned out this was false, thus, the statement was misleading.

Whatever you are blabbing about now, has nothing to do with anything.
>>
>>102107305
He has regular contact with those, but you try to tell me his father, Akane's father, the fucking grandfather or whatever are more than supporting cast, I dare you.
>>
>>102107373
They are living in the same fucking house.
>>
>>102107373
Nice moving the goalposts. The definition was "little to no other male characters around him" not that they had to be main characters.
>>
>Why do male fantasy anime sell better than cuckoldry is the form of lesbians?
Gee, OP. I don't know.
>>
>>102107316
>never played the VN
>>
>>102107075
Because it's like every other genre when it comes to sales? Some make it big, some do well but aren't huge hits, and some sell like shit.
>>
>>102107290
I'm not ignoring the origin, it's just that it doesn't matter. Its use as a real-world term is dfifferent from its use as a anime/manga genre.

I mean, how many so-called harem series actually feature a real-life harem, all the girls being perfectly fine with sharing the MC's cock? Pretty few of those out there.
>>
>>102107433
I don't think i moved the goalposts, I clarified pretty early that being vital to the plot is important here >>102106905
>>
>>102107177
Ranma has a harem, but the story itself is primarily martial-arts-comedy. Ranma spent more time dating Kuno than most of his fiancees. Ryouga is more important than any of the girls but Akane, and Akane has her own reverse-harem.
>>
>>102107016
No ambiguous relationships are required for it to be a harem, or else DxD, IS, and other unequivocally harem shows are now somehow not harems. All that is required is a mostly female supporting cast who all have substantial interest in or attraction to the MC. No relationships, ambiguous or otherwise, are required. In fact, harems sell better when a decent distance is maintained so as not to alienate fans of the other girls. What shows that you've seen DO you consider harems? I'm pretty sure you're doing mental acrobatics to establish the fact that you don't watch harems.

>>102107331
All the female characters (and two male characters) in DxD are attracted to the MC. He doesn't have an "ambiguous" nor "romantic" relationship with any of them except Rias. Therefore, by your asinine definition, it isn't a harem, even though it is the epitome of the harem genre by virtually anyone else's interpretation. If you don't know what "harem" means when describing anime genres, don't use it, moron.
>>
>>102107305
Kuno is part of Ranma's harem, though.
>>
>>102107604
He only has 2 canon fiancees and one self-appointed fiancee, and he spends a lot of time with them.
>>
>>102107426
So what? Yui and Ui live in the same house as well. One of them is a main character, one is supporting cast.
>>
>>102107513
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. Harem has always been applied to anime to describe romantic relationships. Why the fuck do you think people refer to harems as "belonging" to male characters? People talk about Touma's harem to refer to the girls attracted to him. People talk about Lelouch's harem to refer to the girls that are attracted to him. Also in both cases, please note that those harems do not include every female character in the story, nor even every female character with regular interaction with the character mentioned, it specifically refers to girls romantically interested in that character.

Harem = many girls after one guy.
>>
>>102107652
>Therefore, by your asinine definition, it isn't a harem
Again, what the fuck are you blabbing about? It is a harem and doesn't contradict my definition of the term. Are you sure you aren't getting me confused with the retarded guy?
>>
>>102107657
Just like Ryoga.
So?
They don't know that.

Are you going to tell them?
>>
>>102107730
but nothing is ambiguous about the relationships in DxD. MC wants to make fuck and the girls all want his babies for different reasons.
>>
>>102107652
>No relationships, ambiguous or otherwise, are required
This is false. For starters, they wouldn't have any attraction to the MC if they didn't have some kind of relationship with him. They have to know him, probably meet him at some point, for there to be any real spark of interest on her part. The girls can be the male's friends, acquaintances he only sees now and then, or even enemies. They can be roommates, coworkers, or even relatives. They can have many different kinds of relationships with the male lead. Those relationships become ambiguous once the romantic interest is introduced, because now he's no longer "just a coworkers" or "just my non-blood-related brother" etc. Now he's somebody they are attracted to, and that makes it ambiguous.
>>
>>102107841
When have I ever put "ambiguity" in the definition of harem? It's just 3+ girls going after a dude romantically and/or sexually. It's that simple. Jesus.
>>
>>102107689
>Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.
No, it's actually the complete opposite. I know how people usually use the term, I know what people usually think when they hear it.
But that doesn't mean that it's correct or 'smart' to go with these meanings because they're ambiguous.

Just look at this very thread - you had people arguing about whether or not a show was harem and the deciding point was whether one characters actions can be interpreted as 'serious romantic intent' or just 'playfull teasing'.
I mean, you see how ambiguous, loose and frankly stupid this sort of definition is, right?

If you use harem without these romantic implications, it gets a lot less ambiguous and a lot simpler. Show primarily features on one guy with a lot of girls - that's a harem. Are there romantic relationships between the boy and the girls? That's a romance harem. Wacky hijinks without romance? Comedy harem. Etc. etc.
>>
>>102107899
Well there's

>>102107016
>I keep saying that harem is a genre where there need to be multiple women attracted to the harem lead, which leads to them having ambiguous relationships with him.
>>
>>102107980
Also I apologize for those awful grammar and spelling mistakes, it's getting late here.
>>
>>102108016
That's not me. Just another retard.

>>102107980
>Show primarily features on one guy with a lot of girls - that's a harem.
Also a stupid definition. There's nothing ambiguous about the term.
>>
>>102107980
You admit that literally nobody uses your definition because your definition is vague and excludes actual harems and ignores the fundamental romantic aspects of harems, yet you insist on using it because genres aren't neatly delineated?

Get over it. No genre is perfectly clear cut. You always get stuff that doesn't fit neatly into categories and that people will argue over, that's part of fiction.
>>
>>102107730
Are you >>102107016?

>>102107891
The only relationship required is "being a character on the show". Girl A liking the MC does not create an "ambiguous" relationship, it just means Girl A likes the MC, the way Haruhi, Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi all overtly like Kyon. You're phrasing your definition in the most confusing way possible by insistently using the terms "relationship" and "ambiguous". I don't know if you're the guy who thinks Index and Haruhi aren't harems and who hasn't seen any of the popular shows that are considered harems, but you need to straighten out your definition to something lucid.
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>>102107980
>Show primarily features on one guy with a lot of girls - that's a harem
Wrong. No romance, no harem. Also a harem is a type of relationship, the genre is named after this relationship. You are trying to separate the genre from the very thing it is named after, that's why your definitions are so wrong.
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>>102108305
>Are you >>102107016?
No, don't make automatic assumptions.
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>>102108233
I admit that my definition is not widely used, but I don't think it's vague or excludes 'actual' harems.

And I agree that the majority of genres have vague and plain stupid definitions, but I don't think the conclusion from that is to stop trying and just accept this retardation.
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>>102098372
Just because there are lots of harem shows out there doesn't mean each of those shows sell well.
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>>102108341
> You are trying to separate the genre from the very thing it is named after, that's why your definitions are so wrong.
Please, I don't try to remove the genre completely from its namesake, just certain parts.
Which, again, is already happening. Shows can have a 'harem end', but the way the genre is currently defined, an actual harem with multiple females agreeing to share man is very rare and virtually nobody would say it's required for the genre.
So you see, the genre is already removed from the very thing it is named after.
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>entire thread
>not one mention of the wonderful glory that is Xebec's dedication to all things soft, plump, and healthy
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>>102098995
>Haremshit
>Good

what the fuck are you spewing m8?
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>>102108649
He saw the Image OP posted and saw the truth. and that is HAREMS ARE GOOD.

Especially if they are made by XEBEC.
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>>102108649
Compared to Yuri, harems are godly works of art.
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>>102108341
There was zero romance in the first season of DxD. Plenty of sexual attraction and interest, but zero monogamy or love. All that is required is attraction and/or sexual interest. Would a show that features an MC reverse-gang-banging the same group of girls every episode be considered a harem? Yes. Does that necessarily involve any romance? No.

A harem is a show that features a male MC surrounded by a mostly female cast of characters that have a strong or undue interest in him.

>>102108550
This guy at the very least understand what "harem" means as it is used to describe anime. No one is talking about Persian polygamy practices, and there virtually no shows that fit into the real world definition of "harem"; certainly not the big names we think of in the harem genre.
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>>102108305
>Girl A liking the MC does not create an "ambiguous" relationship
Yes it does. It complicates whatever relationship they have by adding on a layer of sexual tension. The characters do not exist in a vacuum, they have preexisting relationships with each other beyond the romantic ones.
>You're phrasing your definition in the most confusing way possible
How is this even a little bit confusing? A relationship is a connection between two people. Ambiguity is uncertainty or inexactness, in this case an ambiguous relationship means a connection between two people which is uncertain. Take Yuki and Kyon. They are classmates because they go to the same school, clubmates because they are in the same club, this gives them a relationship as friends, but the fact that Yuki likes him makes that friendship ambiguous because it is tinted by sexual tension. Because of that attraction, their relationship could become more intimate and romantic, so it's not a clear-cut "just friends" relationship. It's uncertain.
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>>102108550
Again you're being deliberately obtuse to avoid admitting you are wrong.
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>>102108790
I understand the current use of the word to describe anime and manga as well, doesn't mean I have to like or accept it.
And since there is no true authority on what the definition of harem should be, I don't see why I shouldn't argue for one that is less ambiguous.

And while not an authority, wiki's definition supports mine.
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>>102108995
>I shouldn't argue for one that is less ambiguous.
And more useless.

Tell me, what's so ambiguous about 3+ girls wanting a guy's dick?
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>>102108992
And again, you confuse disagreeing with the current use of the word and being obtuse.
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>>102109077
>disagreeing with the current use
i.e. you are wrong but refuse to admit you are wrong so you just insist everybody else the entire world is wrong instead of you.

Your definition doesn't accurately describe how harems work and ignores how it is applied.
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>>102109065
>what's so ambiguous about 3+ girls wanting a guy's dick?

What constitutes as 'wanting the dick'.

An extreme example, let's imagine a show with one guy and 10 girls. The girls constantly play pranks on the guy. Now one parts of the audience interprets this as flirting and romantic advances. The other of the audience thinks it's just harmless fun, a little teasing maybe without any romantic implications.
Now with the way the word is currently used, whether or not this show would be a harem or not would completely rely on your personal interpretation of the interactions.
And that's silly.
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>>102109242
That example is literally GJ-BU and no one considers it a harem.
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Maken-ki is shit.
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>>102109242
>Now with the way the word is currently used, whether or not this show would be a harem or not would completely rely on your personal interpretation of the interactions.
>And that's silly.
Why? That's exactly how all genres of pretty much anything work.

"Wanting the dick" is almost never ambiguous anyways. Keep fighting the world to no avail anon.
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>>102109174
I wouldn't say the world is wrong. I would say the world uses an inferior definition. And sadly with the way definitions work, even using the superior one is pointless if nobody understands what you mean by it because they use a different one. Which is why I am arguing in this thread.

And I think my definition does accurately describe how harems work and more importantly, it makes a very defined and much needed clear cut between harem and romance genres.
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>>102109322
But all the girls want the B.
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>>102109322
I picked it up because it had a harem tag. As it turned out, every girl on there wanted the B.
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>>102109333
>That's exactly how all genres of pretty much anything work.

No they don't. A genre definition being this open to interpretation doesn't happen that often and it shouldn't.
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>>102109496
Stop deluding yourself. Genres are almost never hard and set in stone. How much action do you need for something to be action? How much comedy do you need for it to be a comedy? There is no setline and plenty of stuff is in the middle.

Quick, is this song thrash or speed metal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfWppynI6f4
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>>102108805
>Yes it does. It complicates whatever relationship they have by adding on a layer of sexual tension. The characters do not exist in a vacuum, they have preexisting relationships with each other beyond the romantic ones.
Oops, I just crashed into you on the street and groped your tits, ass, and vagina all at once. Now our relationship is complicated, right?

>but the fact that Yuki likes him makes that friendship ambiguous because it is tinted by sexual tension. Because of that attraction, their relationship could become more intimate and romantic, so it's not a clear-cut "just friends" relationship. It's uncertain.
Or it could devolve into hatred due to some future event. All relationships are "ambiguous" by that definition. I think you know what a harem is, but your definition is only slightly less incomprehensible than the one by the guy who thinks Haruhi and Index aren't harems.

>>102108995
Remember that reverse-gangbang example I provided like two seconds ago? Not only would that fall squarely into most people's definition of "harem", but it involves zero "ambiguous relationships" and is in line with the real world definition of "harem". Stop senselessly insisting on including "relationships" and "ambiguity" as markers for the harem genre; they are not. A bunch of main-cast girls and maybe a few femmy guys interested in a male MC. That's a harem. The end.
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>>102109490
The only one who showed real romantic interest was his sister. The others could be considered subtext I guess. Like you know they like him because hes the MC but they never say so.
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>>102098372
All I know is To love-ru > any other harem > Shit > Maken-ki
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>>102100110

>Its like the fucking rap industry.


Wut
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>>102098372
Maken-ki Two is the best harem in recent memory.
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>>102109606
I was mostly talking about visual mediums here, music genres are whole other beast.

Also while genres are never set in stone, they're also rarely as open to interpretations as harem.
And I'm not even discussing 'how much', but 'what is'.
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>>102109767
S1 was shit though.
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>>102100110
>Rap industry

Plz tell me you're black and you know what you're talking about.
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>>102102341

>Madoka
>Sold because of yuri


My fucking ass
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>>102103059
>>102103073

Well then, I guess being part of the "harem genre" doesn't automatically make a show bad then.
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>>102109925
ding ding ding
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>>102109867
I agree. I mostly added that because I wanted to avoid an argument.

As it turned out about 3 seconds later, I should have added Saki instead.
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>>102109767
Maken ki is shit though and all the girls are fat as shit. Low taste bruh
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>being ashamed of enjoying shows that have harems


You guys have really let the yurifags get in your head.
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>This fucking thread

Jesus fucking christ on a pogo stick what the fuck is happening to this board.
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>>102109815
>music genres are whole other beast
Backpedalling? Music genres are ambiguous as fuck. Much more than the term harem.

What genre is Code Geass? Harem, drama, mecha, action or what?

Here's how it usually works, shows have multiple elements from different genres. Usually, there's something very predominant, so for convenience, you can just call it the predominant element and get away with it, but there's always shows that are in the grey area. The biggest problem with your definition is that it isn't a meaningful description.
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>>102110062

Elaborate
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>>102110058
I'm not ashamed, I just echo things I heard on /a/ until I get proven wrong.
It's the easiest way to post on /a/ if you don't like thinking.
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>>102110062
I don't see anything upsetting and it's certainly nothing new.

I've been here for years and frequently argue for more precise genre definitions.
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>>102110019
It's funny as hell though. I'll give you that the first season was terribad but the second season is great so far.
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>mfw
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>>102110062
/u/ and tumblr took over /a/ and /co/
enjoy.
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>>102110062
Autism.
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>>102110147
>finds that manga
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>>102110110
I wasn't trying to backpedal, I was trying to say I know nothing about music.

And I absolutely agree, shows pretty much always have different elements, but that makes clear-cut definitions so important.
I already said in this thread that there is no 'pure' harem show. And I try to get the romance aspect out of the definition so it no longer overlaps with the romance genre.
If your definition for harem requires some sort of romantic relationships, every harem is also a romance. And I think that's silly, harem does not need to be some sort of subgenre to romance and it shouldn't be.
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>>102110058
>>102110062
People not accepting the fact that they watch/ his favorite anime is harem show
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I never knew the harem=shit thing ran so deep on here. All these people desperately not wanting to accept their favorite series are harems is amazing.

And the funny thing is threads for harem series make up like half the threads on here on any given day. Is /a/ the ultimate tsundere for them?
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>>102110347
Overlap != Subgenre

Mecha usually overlaps with action and nobody cares. There's nothing wrong with overlapping genres. That's completely normal. Progressive overlaps with technical and math (I hate the term "math" but some people use it). Heavy/power/speed/thrash metal all can have some serious overlap. Slice of life overlaps with comedy, horror can overlap with mystery, you can go on and on.
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>>102110561
The only thing that they have is his taste.
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>>102110583
There is a difference between combining genres by choice or having them overlap by definition.
A mecha show doesn't need action elements. Slice of Life doesn't need Comedy. Horror doesn't need Mystery.
But if your definition of harem includes romance, that's different and I don't think it should be.
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>>102110729
>But if your definition of harem includes romance, that's different and I don't think it should be.
Strictly speaking, it doesn't have to be romance (in terms of love), but could just be purely sexual and I'd still count it as a harem. Whether or not you want to consider that to still be romance, is up to you.

I don't see anything wrong with that regardless.
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>>102110561
>I never knew the harem=shit thing ran so deep on here
I didn't. This is a recent thing. Usually, the only problem anyone had with harems was the MC lacking a backbone. But nowadays, it's all "MALE SELFINSERT FANTASY" and other bullshit.
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>>102110110
>>102110729
Let me just chime in to this debate you two are having:

If you say a show falls into the comedy genre, I can expect jokes and gags.

If you say a show falls into the harem genre, I can expect the majority of the main-cast characters to be interested in the MC (DxD, Haruhi, etc.).

That's a useful definition, and it is what almost everyone understands when you say a show is a harem, or falls into the harem genre. Throwing in markers such as "relationships" and "ambiguity" adds nothing to the definition, as these markers are very vague and open to interpretation. They don't tell me what I can expect, as all shows involve "relationships", and all human relationships can be interpreted ambiguously. Adding "romance" as a marker is equally distracting: can you have a harem without love or confessions? Is all sex and no love a harem? All love and no sex? All flirting? I think that makes the problem clear.

The meaningful bit of information that is communicated by the harem genre or tag is that there will be three or more characters with a substantial presence in the overall narrative who are interested in the main character, and the main character will have one or more of these groupies in his presence for the majority of the show. In essence, they will form a harem around him.

We don't gain anything from trying to make the definition more "specific". That's what sub-genres are for. "Comedy" tells us only one simple thing, and that's as it should be. There zero reason to try to tighten the definition of harem; it already gives us important information as to what to expect, much like "horror" and "action".
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>>102112148
That was why I had objections to his definition which does not give any sort of useful insight to what to expect.

The definition I had been championing was 3+ girls being interested romantically and/or sexually in the guy. (The reason for the number 3 is because only 2 girls more often than not ends up as a love triangle which is written quite differently and does not typically feature the usual harem elements).

>can you have a harem without love or confessions? Is all sex and no love a harem? All love and no sex? All flirting? I think that makes the problem clear.
I'd say that all these can be a harem assuming although almost nobody makes a harem that's just about sex without any romantic elements.
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>>102112531
>assuming
Ignore that word.
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>>102098372
So many best girls, I don't know who to choose.
Brown amazon, teacher, main girl, dfc blonde girl, I can't take it!
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>This thread
There is nothing wrong with your favorite anime being a harem, just accept that you misused the term and looked down on series because of ignorance, even Eva is one and the deluded fanboys can't accept it.
>Asuka
>Rei
>Kaworu
>Misato
>Mana
>Eva01
>His hand
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>>102099454

Man DVD's sell like shit in Japan.
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>>102098372
Because like harems, yuri is shit so both sell like it.
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>>102115161
Well good. DVDs should be deprecated.
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>>102115295

Whoops. I meant BD too.
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>>102114797
I don't know how anyone could watch Eva and not think "harem", and I like Eva.
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Harems degrade women to objects that are too stupid to think for themselves and who are all after some beta self-insert shit character who could never get a gf irl. If you like harem anime you're a chauvinist piece of shit who's afraid of strong women. I wish they stopped making this shit because it makes me feel ashamed of liking anime and it's the primary reason why I can't even tell my friends about it even though I only watch good shows.
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>>102115676
k MAL whatever you say, it's fridays night you should go party with your friends buddy
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>>102115676
What'chu watchin son?

Y-yuri, it's about girls k-kissing and doing cute thin...

SON ARE YOU GAY? I DIDN'T RAISE NO GAYBOY.
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>>102115676
If you're bored, go watch anime.
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>>102115498
Some series are expensive as hell, I don't know how they can spend $500 in 12 episodes.
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>>102115676
is this some sort of new fat woman copy pasta?
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>>102117365
it can be since now. it reeks of tumblr
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>>102110561
/a/ has fallen down since 2008, the board is populated by people who praise mainstream anime and people who use anime as fap material and call it shit afterwards.
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Harem is just the lowest common denominator male fantasy anime.

Just like how those romance books in stores and tabloid magazines near grocery store checkouts are for women.

There is no reason to "hate" harem. It's objectively shit but it serves a purpose.
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>>102120329
LIKE MOE RIGHT?
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>>102104885

>Araragi
>faithful

The main thrust of the story is about him having a martyr complex and trying to make everyone happy. Kaiki even arguing with Gahara about just making her boyfriend side decisively with her, and there are several points if romantic tension with Shinobu and Hanekawa. Also, that scene you mentioned, where he dumped Hanekawa? Hilarious. Listen up, he then, the next day, offered to have her sleep in his room with him and/or have her make him her personal bed, which she rejected. Guy also still has his Hanekawa collection, and even Gahara knows that if Hanekawa wasn't so genuinely nice, she would shag Araragi and he would not fight back, like with that kiss in Bake, he didn't resist, despite having a girlfriend. Hanekawa only stops herself because she loves Gahara too, also mentioned in her final arc and mentioned in passing in the last arc of SS when she talks to Kaiki.
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>>102110161
I can see, goddamn it.
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>>102098372
(Dumb) Shit ALWAYS sold well. Everything, not just anime
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Because everyone knows hetero is masterrace.
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>>102104579
>>102109761
What about TLR? What makes it so special. I mean I watched it and loved it, but I can't put my finger on why it's better than any other harem.
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GET THE FUCK OUT TUMBLR



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