I've seen a lot about Fullmetal Alchemist and have decided to watch it. I know there's FMA2003 and Brotherhood but which should i watch first? from looking around most people say "Watch Brotherhood it's waaay better" but others disagree. tl;dr which should i watch FMA 2003 or Brotherhood?
Watch 2003 then read the manga. If you absolutely need to watch Shamballa after 2003. Brotherhood is useless.
Read the manga. If you need to watch something, then watch Brotherhood.
2003 shit's all over the theme of the series, and is beyond non-sensical at times.
2003 was alright but that ending was shit
Is FMAB the most overrated anime of all time?
I grew up watching 2003 so i have a nostalgic love for it.
But otherwise, go read the manga. The version of the story the author intended to depict.
FMA2003- good at the beginning at explaining the backstory, etc., turns into nonsensical anti-climatic towards the end
FMAB - the beginning seems kind of rushed( as in they just wanted to get to later on in the story), but improves later on
>Brotherhood is useless.
No, seriously: what?
Or maybe they should at least read like the first half of the manga before they watch Brotherhood.
They should read the whole manga and forget about Brotherhood.
The earlier above is quite good. People who read the manga first hate it because it's not the same story.
Brotherhood and the manga had too much POWER OF FRIENDSHIP, plot armor, asspull, SO COOL, and 'comedic relief' shit going on.
The 2003 is far better in all aspects except for, arguably, the ending.
Arguably, because I actually preferred the 2003 end to the unexplained clusterfuck deus ex that was the Brotherhood ending.
Read the manga. If you liked the manga and feel like sitting through the exact same story again, watch Brotherhood, which is a near 1:1 adaptation of it.
The 2003 anime branches off before getting halfway through the story because that's where it caught up to the manga when it was being made, so half of it is anime original.
People get really defensive about which FMA anime you prefer, so no matter what opinion you give your taste will be called shit.
Are you somehow implying that the ending of 2003 wasn't an unexplained clusterfuck deus ex ending?
I can't even tell if the people who write this are trolling because of all the morons I see on /a/ anymore.
It was better than Brotherhood's ending.
There's worse. Like SnK.
Not him, but I'd argue 2003 was less of a deus ex machina ass-pull and more of a bittersweet "nobody gets what they want" victory.
2003's victory felt more earned to me.
What the actual fuck anon? Did we watch the same shows or were you asleep during them?
>which is a near 1:1 adaptation of it
Watching Brotherhood is like listening to someone reading you the manga story while burping and farting all the time.
But they didn't even win. Half the Homunculi were still out there, and Ed and Ho got trapped in Germany. Fucking Germany. Also, that adaptation seems to ship Ed and Rosa. I dunno if that's just me though.
What victory? Ed betraying his ideals and dying? Mustang doing noting about his atonement for his crimes except wallowing in self pity in exile? Scar just dying? But hey, Al survived and got his body back, and it only came a price he never wanted to pay in the first place, it's practically the situation with his mother all over again. Oh wait, it IS the exact same situation all over again. Now he has to live with that on his conscience. Forever. Or at least until nazi wizards break through the portal, cause god knows that makes everything make sense.
I don't get that analogy at all. It follows the manga very closely and leaves out only a little bit of material. The only bit added in was the very first episode.
They were all banished or killed or purified into being non-assholes.
Ed did win, because his nation and friends were not sacrificed to create a new philosopher's stone.
>Ed betraying his ideals
I don't think you watched the show. Ed changed his goal as he grew up, as his character changed throughout the show. That's not at all the same as "betraying his ideals".
He went from someone with a childish wish to regain the past, to someone with a mature responsibility to uphold the future. It was a pretty good character study of someone outgrowing the shounen genre.
Brotherhood had terrible directing.
>deus ex machina ass-pull
And in what possible way was the manga such a thing?
Because I find that the same people who say this are often the same one who have such an astoundingly small attention span that tey miss that everything about the ending was set up ages before.
Here's a hint: if you think Ed beating the tar out of Father was somehow an asspull because "Father had the powers of a God", you are too fucking stupid to follow a shonen manga that only asked you to forget a plotpoint Hohenheim had been shouting at everyone present for the past several chapters,
>Brotherhood had terrible directing.
What the fuck does that even mean? I've seen you repeat that over and over but never explaining what the fuck you're talking about.
>What the fuck does that even mean?
Are you like mentally challenged?
No, the asspulls in the finale were things like how only Ed could punch Father, that ring of soldiers with weapons were only there to cheer for Ed. It's generic power-fantasy shounen shit, and it has no place in a show where major characters can die when they get shot.
>Ed did win, because his nation and friends were not sacrificed to create a new philosopher's stone.
Which makes no fucking sense since the cast only dealt with a scarce few fucks in the chain of command, and unless the series is being absolutely fucking retarded, there should have being a fuckload of other people involved in such a massive scheme.
Instead, the military government that is never even mentioned as unpopular collapses overnight and gets replaced by a never-even-mentioned senate.
I don't really understand why the nonsense epilogue would detract from Ed's victory, but I can agree that it's a bit too high in out-of-nowhere developments.
>how only Ed could punch Father
Yep. You are too fucking stupid to follow up a Shonen manga.
Holy shit, seriously? How the fuck is this hard? The instructions Hohenheim spends that entire sequence shouting also double as the explanation for why it makes perfect sense. Explain to me, shithead, why in the world WOULDN'T that make perfect sense? Are you too damn stupid to remember what happened a few chapters prior?
>that ring of soldiers with weapons were only there to cheer for Ed
Read the actual fucking thing, idiot. They unloaded everything they had on him, all Ed did was finish him off.
>Read the actual fucking thing
So you're saying Brotherhood fucked up the manga? That's just another sign of the poor direction, I guess.
So the answer is that you have no actual elaboration and it's just a buzzword complaint.
>swallow god for no apparent reason when the same powerlevel could have been reached just by using the souls directly
>Ed engaging in hand to hand combat with said god is also incredibly stupid
>how the hell did the souls in hoenheim's philosopher's stone regain their sanity?
>crimson alchemist somehow stays sane
>Ed "sacrificing his knowledge" for everything was a bullshit cop out
>the "cute" awkward proposal scene
>"How could you understand me? That all I wanted were friends" is bullshit coming from Envy
>All characters from Xing suck
>So you're saying Brotherhood fucked up the manga?
It fucked the manga at the very first episode which was an original that had the brilliant idea of spoiling half of the plot.
No, the complaints you're making are equally fucking stupid for both.
And don't try to deviate the conversation: answer the fucking question: what neuron misfire so hard in your brain that the ending somehow doesn't make sense? Because you'd have to have the attention span of a little kid to not follow that chain of events.
Why in the world would Ed not be able to beat Father to death?
>from looking around most people say "Watch Brotherhood it's waaay better" but others disagree.
Why would you think /a/ is any different?
Personally I think both are worth watching but in terms of my own preference I rather more like 2003.
As far as the movies go, both are rubbish and really shouldn't be watched.
>Ed changed his goal as he grew up,
That's horseshit. Complete horseshit. I have to ask if you even read the manga or watched the show because what you just said is the total assassination of Ed's character. Ed is defined by his resolute ideals and the stubbornness with which he clings to them. This was as true in the early parts of the 2003 anime as it was in the manga. Ed doesn't kill and he doesn't use human lives to accomplish his goals. These are things he stands by and which bring him into conflict with various antagonists throughout the story, as well as into conflict with other protagonists who don't agree with him, namely Mustang.
>He went from someone with a childish wish to regain the past, to someone with a mature responsibility to uphold the future.
Upholding the future is a nonsense phrase because to uphold something means to support something already in place. Which the future isn't. Garbage rhetoric like this litters your post and convinces me you have no clue what you're talking about.
And more to the point: Ed's desire to get his body back isn't childish in the least, it's about atonement. He does reshape his goals after he learns the truth of the philosopher stone though, and he changes them to be more in line with his forward-thinking ideology. Or at least that's what he does in the manga. In the 2003 anime he betrays his ideals and gives up on his ambitions.
>>swallow god for no apparent reason when the same powerlevel could have been reached just by using the souls directly
Wow first point and you're already dead wrong. Why do fags who don't pay attention to anything try to criticize the story?
>As far as the movies go, both are rubbish and really shouldn't be watched
Unless you like sakuga.
>Ed is defined by his resolute ideals and the stubbornness with which he clings to them.
That's why his mom comes back in the end, right?
And he always gets both his arm and his leg back?
>>Ed engaging in hand to hand combat with said god is also incredibly stupid
>>how the hell did the souls in hoenheim's philosopher's stone regain their sanity?
Jesus chirst, are 2003's fans all actually mentally retarded? Did you miss the part where he explains exactly that? He spent fucking centuries on it. There wasn't anything complicated about it, he states it clearly.
>Ed "sacrificing his knowledge" for everything was a bullshit cop out
Then bitch at 2003, because sacrificing bodyparts for knowledge is how the series starts in all versions. That's how Ed learns how to bind Al's soul. This is something established since the very beginning, simply in reverse. As opposed to 2003?s "here's a new transmutation circle straight out my ass and most of this sequence makes no sense. Also I get a new body out of nowhere even though Earth Ed is dead."
>But they didn't even win.
And this is the childish mentality of the brotherhood fanbase.
>b-but it's as the author wanted it
Disregarding the fact that maybe the story as the author made it was pretty mediocre and downright shounen-shit up to the ending?
>it doesn't have muh happy ending
Everything must be black and white with you children right? It has to have a total sense of resolution otherwise it's 'rubbish'.
2003 ending was perfectly fine for what it was and the only real gripe brotherhood shitheads really have against it is the 'breaking the whole 4th wall' aspect - b-but it can't make reference to *our* world and history! As awkward as that might have been for the viewer it fit into the story just fine.
2003 has a better beginning, which brotherhood kind of skips over to get to the new stuff. So if you are going to watch them, watch the first one and then brotherhood.
2003 had a better ending.
>b-but it can't make reference to *our* world and history! As awkward as that might have been for the viewer it fit into the story just fine.
Yeah, maybe if there were some foreshadowing and the like. It was literally "woah shit Germany haha the end."
>Disregarding the fact that maybe the story as the author made it was pretty mediocre and downright shounen-shit up to the ending?
Honestly that's the biggest problem with Brotherhood: that the manga starts out with a mature, grim tone, but ends up using all shounen tropes ("hero punches villain to death BECAUSE HE IS THE HERO" and other bullshit).
If FMA didn't intimate that it was a grim, gritty world of grown-up consequences, then the ending wouldn't feel so out of place.
These are not even replies, you're simply trying to be vaguely insulting without addressing any point in particular.
Holy fuck you're stupid. How is getting his mom back an ideal you stupid shit? His ideals are pacifism and self-reliance. He doesn't kill, and he doesn't use others for his own ends. That's why he finds philosopher stones so morally abhorrent, because they violate both his central tenets in the most literal way possible.
Getting his mom back was a GOAL, not an ideal. Getting his and his brother's body back to normal was a GOAL, not an ideal.
His goals change, but not his ideals. He never gives up his ideals and this is what brings him into conflict with others.
>you're simply trying to be vaguely insulting
We're trying to speak at the level of Brotherhood fans, like so:
>Holy fuck you're stupid.
>you stupid shit?
The original manga, and thus Brotherhood, are so entertaining in terms of plot development and pacing, while the old original series is really immature and strained after the initial setup episodes.
Yeah I'm with this guy >>102012304
You have no real points and are just stirring shit.
Brotherhood fans sure are mad.
>Honestly that's the biggest problem with Brotherhood: that the manga starts out with a mature, grim tone
No it doesn't.
>FMAB - the beginning seems kind of rushed( as in they just wanted to get to later on in the story), but improves later on
I think to avoid FMAB's "rushed" start, you're supposed to watch FMA 2003's episodes up until they diverge from the manga story
its the same fucking animation studio, so obviously they're not going to reanimate the part of the series that actually stuck with the manga, if brotherhood is accurate in accordance with the manga
Hey, dickhead, I'm still waiting: explain to me what's an asspull about Ed beating the shit out of Father.
C'mon, you were so certain of that a while ago, why doesn't it make sense? Go ahead, make it clear that you have the attention span of a goldfish.
Maybe this is why you don't see the atcual glaring plotholes in 2003: the terrible highschool philosophy that doesn't even make sense distract you from them while you can't recall anything from even the previous episode anyway.
Seriously, that's the show that presented something as buttfuckingly obvious as "Loss doesn't imply reward" to a guy that had suffered and seen unjust suffering by the truckload, and the fucking series makes it seem as if it's surprising. It turns Ed into a complete goddamn idiot. And you swallow it up, because you only need fancy phrases that sound deep even though they don't really mean a damn thing like
>He went from someone with a childish wish to regain the past, to someone with a mature responsibility to uphold the future
What childish desire? He wanted to fix his fucking brother. He stops trying to revive his mother before the series starts. He learned his lesson right then.
The post you're quoting follows with clear explanations of what he's saying. Yours don't, because you just have buzzwords.
So I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and guess you skimmed over most of the dialogue in the early chapters, particularly Ed's speeches. Cause it's pretty apparent to anybody who actually read them that this was a very conventional shounen story.
not even anon you're referring to
but if you read the manga and watch the anime, there's very little discernible difference (very little being no difference at all, right down to the PoV's and perspectives) unless of course you mean to say both the manga and anime have shit directing, which would make sense and be valid (as an opinion)
>Cause it's pretty apparent to anybody who actually read them that this was a very conventional shounen story.
I watched both series and didn't read the manga.
Both series started out with intimations of grim & gritty consequences (especially the doggie and the funeral episodes).
I liked the 2003 one better. The ending with Dante felt far more human than the god thing which was the antagonist of brotherhood.
It's like /a/ is filled with mongoloids like this.
>unless of course you mean to say both the manga and anime have shit directing
Hint directing =! writing
>explain to me what's an asspull about Ed beating the shit out of Father
Tell me how it's not. What does Hohenheim say that makes everything make sense?
>that's the show that presented something as buttfuckingly obvious as "Loss doesn't imply reward"
What the fuck are you talking about?
>He went from someone with a childish wish to regain the past, to someone with a mature responsibility to uphold the future.
What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?
He stops trying to revive his mother before episode 1. The entire quest is to regain their bodies, or at least Al's and that's what they do. What the hell is childish about that?
Other than that, Ed does nothing save buckle under a terrible speech stating the most goddamn obvious thing in the universe and take a huge dump in his own character by ending by proclaiming that life will reward you one way or another for your effort even if it's not how you expected it. Which is wishy-washy housewife bullshit from a guy who damn well knows better and started the series by pointing out to a bunch of cultists that the idea that just being good and nice and then being rewarded by a nebulous higher power is pretty stupid.
Unfortunately that's not really possible because even in its first 20~ episodes, the 2003 version had a different plot (i.e. Roy killing Winry's parents instead of Scar, Marcoh getting killed off, etc). No matter which point you switch between them, you have to overlook quite a few inconsistencies and plot holes
>What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?
I mean that he stops trying to get back his limbs. He does not have both limbs back at the end of either series.
There's nothing childish about wanting your limbs back in a vacuum, but making the choice that your personal happiness is less important than service to your fellow humans is the opposite of childish.
I liked both.
>Tell me how it's not. What does Hohenheim say that makes everything make sense?
Yep, mental retardation. Serious mental retardation.
Fine, I'll indulge you and explain the EXTREMELY clear and by-no-goddman-way reason for why that makes sense,m even though the characters do so themselves in incredibly fucking clear terms:
The whole fucking reason for swallowing Amestris was to have enough raw power to keep Truth bound up once Father swallowed. Hohenheim spent years setting up a counter to that exact same project, which is what you see him doing in all those "wandering through the countryside scene". When Father activates his circle and begins siphoning souls, Hohenheim activates his own and reverses the process, which is helpfully accompanied by Hoho explaining exactly this.
With only the original souls from Xerxes, Father can barely restrain Truth and sees his potential usage of his own powers drastically diminishes. Did I mention how INCREDIBLY CLEARLY the characters explain these points as they happen? Anyhow, with Father's strength now mostly focused on keeping Truth bottled up, he only has usage of a very small fraction of his powers. Hohenheim's ensuing plan is simple: force him to fight to exhaust the tiny fraction of leftover strength he can actually use until he no longer has the power to keep Truth and blows up from the inside.
So they do exactly that. Though meager compared to his full powers, Father is still pretty fucking strong, but just about every character in the series unleashed their whole payload on him. He still manages to wipe out nearly all opposition and almost escape, but by the end he had such an infinitesimal amount of power left that he could barely move. And that's when Ed beats his face in to exhaust him completely until Truth bursts out of him like an Alien Chestbuster.
Did I mention this is EXTREMELY FUCKING CLEARLY EXPLAINED?
>There's nothing childish about wanting your limbs back in a vacuum, but making the choice that your personal happiness is less important than service to your fellow humans is the opposite of childish.
You make no fucking sense. None at all.
Ed's main concern was always Al, his limbs were secondary to him. He doesn't get his leg back in the manga either and doesn't give a shit.
You still make no fucking sense: where is the character growth you're talking about compared to the manga? Ed puts their quest on hold in the manga too when the shit with father becomes far more imperative.
It sounds like you just strung together a sentence of fancy-sounding nonsense without any actual thought to what you were comparing. Which admittedly is how much of 2003 seems to be written.
>What the fuck are you talking about?
Dante's "shocking", "philosophical" and "thought-provoking" speech to Ed where she reveals the "mindblowing truth" that effort and loss doesn't imply reward.
It was highschool philosophy at its finest spouted to a guy that would need to be retarded to believe otherwise. Whereas the manga character simply held onto the common truism that nothing comes free, the 2003 anime suddenly asks you to believe Ed is a fucking moron who actually believed that all effort gets rewarded and thus he's shocked and unsettled by Dante's words.
Seriously, this is like the entirety of the last several episodes. And Hohenheim is shouting "force him to exhaust his powers" throughout the entire thing.
I'm now convinced people who bitch about this point are ten years old. There is no other possible explanation for how that sequence could possibly fly over your head, it's the most straightforward fucking thing imaginable.
Brotherhood has Riza voiced by Rukia's VA.
>I actually preferred the 2003 end to the unexplained clusterfuck deus ex that was the Brotherhood ending.
>clusterfuck deus ex
Are you high?
My main problem with the hand to hand isn't how implausible it is, but how ridiculous it is in context.
Beating the shit out of someone about to release the most powerful entity known to FMA back out? While everyone around him cheers him on? Despite the fact that they were quite literally dead just a few moments ago?
Also, hand to hand is an anticlimatic conclusion to the all out battle that led up to it. It's like this entire scene was written for the sake of showing off how "cool" Ed is.
I'd preferred the combined attack to continue and climax into Father releasing Truth rather than have him walk around like a zombie before getting the shit beat out of him.
Question for you: why did father want to bind truth?
What is truth?
>What is truth?
Baby don't hurt me.
>Question for you: why did father want to bind truth?
Because that's the entirety of his fucking character: escaping bigger and bigger flasks.
He's the little dwarf in a flask, an impotent clump of knowledge and human emotions that raged against his bindings and conspired and schemed to escape his cage. He's desperately obsessed with proving his superiority and distancing himself from his humanity, but at the same time shows that even after vivisecting his on subconscious, his humanity lingers. That's why he created the Homunculi and spared Hohenheim: he was comforted by the idea that he was not alone, even if the only other guy like him in the world loathed him.
Truth was simply another step in his cosmic inferiority complex tantrum. The next "flask" for him were the laws of nature that kept him restrained, and he thought that if he broke that barrier he could escape his humanity at last.
Everything about him is a roadmap of how to fuck things up in alchemical philosophy. The separation of the sins in particular runs counter to the basic principle of seeking completeness. That's why Ed points out Greed is the most advanced of them all, since he moved past his one defining trait and became a person on his own.
I never even realized she changed VAs. Why?
Sacred Star of Milos
I like both. It's just the ending of the 2003 anime that did'n sit well with me. FMAB also ended being my favorite animu from all time. Might be just my fanboyism of he manga carrying over. I love it either way.
well, he's right. You might as well just read the manga(at least the lines won't be brutalized by both jap/english dubs).
most of the VAs where changed in brotherhood. Al and Ed were just one of the few who kept their voices.