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How the hell did Archer lose to Berserker? If Shirou can beat Gilgamesh and Gil can easily kill Berserker then how in the world could Archer lose? Wasn't he fully healed at that point?
>>
It's bullshit, he was severely nerfed in Fate.
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>>101990284
Gil killed Berserker because he was targeting Ilya the entire time. Berserker just tanked the Gate for her.

Archer obviously did not want to target Ilya and was also still injured from Saber's stab. Not to mention the fact that he fought in an enclosed area against a giant who had a sword bigger than half of the room.

His strength is being tactical but in this situation, he had to straight up just buy time for Rin/Shirou to escape.
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>>101990284
Because not everything is straight powerlevels. Archer/Shirou are just very compatible against Gilgamesh, they are like a perfect counter against him.
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>>101990284
Fate it's like Rock-Paper-Scissors.
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>>101990284
Shirou and Archer just match up well against Gilgamesh with UBW activated. They don't quite boast the same degree of power, nor do they have Enkidu.
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>>101990284
Emiya can't trace that many weapons that work against Berserker (A rank) due to the rank reduction, so he ends dying under the sheer power and regenration of Heracles.

Against Gil, that is not really important as he can use the weapons to counter GoB.

Archer is a very average Servant really, he is just like the Holy Grail War Batman.
>>
>>101990284

>How the hell

Very Simple:

Despite it being an intentional job on Archer's part, taking Seibah's blade isn't easy on |any| Servant and it massively tanks his capability in Fate Route

Berserker has to be killed 12 times successively whereas Gil just needs one death, berserker also has to be killed with a different weapon each time due to his legend's type

EMIYA is literally Gil's poison when buffed, he is Gil with no limits on weapons and with actual skill behind his attacks
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>>101991212
He doesn't have the same destructive output, his projections are ranked down unless he turns them into broken phantasms, and certain items take far more prana to project. He's not Gilgamesh without constaints.

That said, the fact that he managed to shave off so many lives from Berserker was still pretty damn impressive.
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>>101990284
because Illya>>>>>>>Rin>>>>>>>>>>>>>shitty sword idiot who should drown in his ideals and die
>>
Archer takes several lives from berserker despite fighting a losing battle (forced to fight at close range to protect the retreat of his master). The nature of his Berserker's NP lost him the fight.

Gil destroys Berserker because he considers the servant nothing more than a rabid dog.

Gil plays with Shirou due to the nature of his magic pissing Gil off. He dicks around until Shirou can actually win.

tl;dr Gil is a retard.
>>
>>101991583

I don't think you truly understand the capacity of EMIYA's Reality Marble http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Unlimited_Blade_Works

Its not about matching each sword to Gil's original, its about capturing the essence of each sword and being able to draw infinite amounts of that essence into reality.

Gil is limited by the original and his lack of skill wielding each, by drawing on the essence EMIYA instantly masters each (as seen in the Berserker fight) and he can draw it out as many times as necessary
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>>101991212
>Berserker has to be killed 12 times successively
>berserker also has to be killed with a different weapon each time
Then why does shirou kill him like 5 times with 1 excaliblast?
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>>101990284
Type-moon isn't just about powerlevels. There is some serious rock-paper-scissors and situational stuff going on in all those cases.

You can't say "Shirou can beat Gilgamesh therefore Shirou can beat x who Gilgamesh beat."

Gilgamesh could only beat Berserker because Hercules is divine as fuck, so Gil's Enkidu was super effective against him.

Archer was also probably a lot more hesitant to attack Ilya than Gil was, which complicated the fight, since Herc would have had to defend Ilya againt Gil, but he had more freedom against Archer.

Him being able to defeat Berserker 6 times in those circumstances is pretty fucking impressive.

And that's not even taking into account that Archer was trying to hold Berserker back to buy time. If he had a bit more freedom to let Berserker roam around, he could have left the mansion and fought at more of a distance.
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>>101991914
Being able to properly wield the weapons he projects doesn't make him Gil without limits, it just grants Emiya an entirely different skillset.
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>>101992069
Think of it like this.

Each of his lives has X amount of HP. If you go over that amount of HP, it can spill into his other lives. So if you have a powerful enough attack, you can kill him 12 times with one hit.

But after that attack kills him once, he gains immunity from that attack. So you have to deal as much damage as you can with the first strike.
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>>101992069

Each |time| you kill him you need to change weapon.

Ex. If they killed him 4 times over with the Excaliblast they'd be screwed as the 5th would need a different Noble Phantasm

>>101992180
>I can use a sword but I don't know how to master it

Sounds like he is |limited| by his lack of skill
(which is exactly what I said)
>>
You think we'll get an updated version of Deen's Archer vs Berserker from Ufotable?
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>>101992293
If you're talking solely about skill, yes, Emiya is definitely better off than Gil, but he has his own limitations in regard to the power behind his projections and the prana consumption thereof. That was the point.
>>
How many heroic spirits are there which are even qualified to kill Berserker?
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>>101992772

Alright, you agree to the skill being a limiting factor, on to the weapons themselves.

1) The Gate is slower than being in UBW:
Once within the confines of the Reality Marble, all of his weapons are produced and ready to attack, which means that the Gate of Babylon's slightly slower summoning rate allows Shirou to hone in on Gilgamesh to fight and defeat him at close range.

2) Gate Versions are static, UBW versions can be modified:
They can also be modified to the user's taste with reinforcement as shown by Archer's Caladbolg II and Kanshou and Bakuya.

3) UBW's mass of blades can restore the user while Gate Weapons don't do this naturally:

The Reality Marble is able to invade Shirou's body in the form of numerous blades during severe trauma to heal and overwrite wounds.


All taken from: http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Unlimited_Blade_Works

Which is why I linked it in the first place, just read the damned wiki, its clear how UBW surpasses the limits of The Gate
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>>101992798
As long said hero went berserk during a part of said hero's life/legend/story.
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>>101993175
Gate of Babylon doesn't need time to deploy once it has already been opened, its weapons aren't ranked down, and it consumes very little prana. There are NPs at its disposal, like Enkidu, that Archer would be very hard-pressed to replicate.

We'll have to agree to disagree, because the way I see it, neither is inherently superior.
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>>101993175
>asspulls
>>
>>101992798

The vast majority of servants do not have A rank strength or an A rank offensive Noble Phantasm, so Berserker would steamroll most wars. Even if every servant in a war had some way of killing him, and killed him once, he would still have SIX LIVES remaining and those previous methods would become invalidated. Berserker is some serious bullshit, like Medusa with her eyes unsealed, and Lancer using Gae Bolg.
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>>101993449

>Fankwanks up everything except the rank down

No, there is no "agree to disagree" thee's you going against confirmed canon by making shit up

Weapons from the Gate have |always| been shown as having a time-frame to be retrieved, the time-frame can be short when Gil is composed and expectant (Assassin kill in F/z) but still need to be retrieved

in UBW the blades are already there, perfectly reproduced and only need to be weilded.

>Prana consumption

Again: This is you fankwanking and not simply reading the specifics of UBW, the reality marble is said to provide everything necessary to make the weapons and its only up to EMIYA to envision them

>Archer's list of NP is smaller than the Gate's

This is literal bullshit, EMIYA using full on UBW has every NP made in UBW plus any not in Gil's treasury beyond that it also has the custom versions that EMIYA has made

>>101993670
Apparently citing the wiki is asspulls now
>>
>>101993449
GOB = getting eating utensils from opened drawer
UBW = eating utensils are on the table
>>
EMIYA being able to kill Berserker six times, let alone once, is a clear case of plot bullshit, much like Berserker being repelled by Kojirou who can't even hurt him!

The fact of the matter is that Archer's wits and experience, his greatest asset, don't help him much in a straight fight against a monster like Berserker. He could use Broken Phantasms to hurt Berserker, but those take around thirty seconds to create and a loooot of prana that also drains his own tank that keeps him alive. I could understand Archer killing Berserker twice in extraordinary circumstances, but when a single Broken Phantasm is enough to almost fully deplete his energy reserves, there's something fishy going on when he kills Berserker six times in a row.
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>>101993812

Gate of Babylon has many more things in it than just blades, silly, such as cloaks of invisibility that can erase your presence even to Servants and FTL-capable ships. Gilgamesh's versatility is on a level far beyond EMIYA's.
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>>101993812
Firing from GoB puts the pressure immediately; Emiya needs time to cast UBW before it can even come into play, and Archer's Broken Phantasms take a lot of prana to generate. Sorry.

Archer lacking Noble Phantasms like Enkidu and Ea isn't bullshit. Stop using the wiki as a crutch.
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>>101993175

Eh... Gilgamesh has so many things in his treasury that he doesn't need to modify anything. On top of that, he has healing items that he could use if he wanted to. Literally anything that humanity has created or will create exists in prototypical magical item form in his treasury, because the artisans and craftsmen of his time had much the same wishes as the scientists and such of this time, such as to travel through space at FTL speeds.

UBW has a lot of nice uses and such, but Gilgamesh doesn't need any of them. He's more powerful than 30% Arceuid, for crying out loud.
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>>101993848
I'm cool with fetching proper utensils from a drawer if it means I don't have to waste my time with an incantation.
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>>101994021

An actual point instead of ole fankwank here:>>101994137

When put under the pressure of an all out assault within UBW GIl drew NPs and EMIYA matched each with an appropriate blade in history

>>101994137
>Stop using the wiki as a crutch.
>Stop using a valid and vetted source of information on the matter as a crutch

Between citing the wiki and fankwanking up my answers like you: I'll go with the wiki

>>101994236
>He doesn't need to modify anything

Doesn't need to =/= can't or does not
EMIYA's ability to use modified versions of NP is stated as an advantage both in and out of the fight


_
Bottom Line: You each can circle jerk Gil all night for all I care. EMIYA drew him into UBW and he was defeated. No do overs, no repeats. Fanwank up an excuse.
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>>101994433
Don't they fucking shoot out of the drawer anyway? Isn't that the entire UBW climax?
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>>101994476

>EMIYA drew him into UBW and he was defeated.

No, Shirou did that. Gilgamesh wouldn't give EMIYA the chance to fight, as he showed when he ambushed him after the Shirou vs. EMIYA battle (which blew up in his face because EMIYA faked his own death but that's beside the point).
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>>101994476

>Doesn't need to =/= can't or does not
>EMIYA's ability to use modified versions of NP is stated as an advantage both in and out of the fight

The post was about Gilgamesh, silly billy.
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>>101993812

>Archer's list of NP is smaller than the Gate's

>This is literal bullshit, EMIYA using full on UBW has every NP made in UBW plus any not in Gil's treasury beyond that it also has the custom versions that EMIYA has made


Not any previous posters but I just wanted to say that Gil has, with some very minor exceptions (Excalibur really being the only one I can think of) every noble phantasm's original, primordial weapon. Archer only has copies of any weapons he has seen in life and considering he lived in the modern era and the lack of magic in the modern TM world, this number is probably much lower than <all> NPs. Sure, he has regular weapons and can modify them, too, but I think, as far as original designs and thus special abilities, Gil wins this one. Archer, though, can keep pulling the same weapon over and over as they break, which means he has an infinite number of a limited set of weapons.
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IT'S FUCKING ROCK PAPER SCISSORS OKAY

ARCHER/SHIROU'S UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS IS A PERFECT COUNTER TO GIL'S GATE OF BABYLON (ASSUMING ARCHER/SHIROU HAS ENOUGH MANA)

GIL'S ENKIDU IS A HARD COUNTER TO DIVINITY AND HERCULES IS DIVINE SO HE GETS RAPED BY GIL

BERSERKER HAS AMAZING STATS ALL AROUND AND TOTALLY CRUSHES ARCHER/SHIROU STAT WISE

PRETTY MUCH ALL NOBLE PHANTASMS ARE A COUNTER TO SOMETHING ELSE
>>
Berserker's pretty much the Worf of Fate so I think people tend to underestimate how strong he is. He's faster than almost every Servant, strong enough to 1-2 shot any Servant, and can tank almost anything, and anything he can't tank only works once. Berserker's actually really fucking powerful.
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>>101992115
Or its just something as simple as him having a ton of A rank noble phantasms in his vault he could shoot at herakles
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>>101994996
But Fragarach didn't counter gay bulge
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>>101994996
Except Gay Buldge, It doesn't counter anything.
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>>101994580

>No Shirou did that

This is where the argument is going? That EMIYA couldn't do what Proto-EMIYA Shirou could?

Is it really that hard to stop fellating Gil? He has |one| major weakness in UBW just as: >>101994996
>>101990849
>>101990805

and every single reasonable post about Fate power-levels ever but you Gil-fags can't stop for a moment and admit that his perfect weakness is obviously UBW?
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>>101990284
Fatefags should start getting banned.

As soon as one thread 404s, someone makes a new thread and purposely asks the most retarded questions ever.
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>>101995256
UBW needs to be cast (it isn't a major shortcoming, but it is one), its weapons are downgraded, and it's ultimately limited to certain types of arms.

They both have their pros and cons. UBW trumps GoB once it's activated, but that's in a confrontation between the two. Some servants would sooner lose to GoB.
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>>101995256
>He has |one| major weakness in UBW

That weakness can be overcome if he isn't being retarded however.
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>>101995256
GIL'S ULTIMATE WEAKNESS WOULD BE UBW IF GATE OF BABYLON WASN'T GIL'S ONLY ASSET

GIL HAS A BUNCH OF OVERPOWERED STUFF THAT EVEN SHIROU/ARCHER CAN'T COUNTER WITH UBW LIKE EA, IN FACT EA IS A STRAIGHT COUNTER TO UBW SINCE EA DESTROYS REALITY MARBLES LIKE YOUR MOM SUCKS COCKS

REALLY THE ONLY REASONS WHY SHIROU BEAT GIL IN THE UBW ROUTE WAS BECAUSE GIL REFUSED TO PUT HIS ARMOR ON AND REFUSED TO USE ANYTHING EXCEPT GATE OF BABBY UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE

GIL REALLY IS JUST AS OVERPOWERED AS WE SAY HE IS, AND HE'S EVEN NERFED IN THE FIFTH GRAIL WAR BECAUSE OF GRAIL MUD
>>
So did you not actually read UBW or what? It's not stupid shounen power levels. Shirou/Archer are uniquely suited for fighting Gilgamesh. Shirou says that Gilgamesh is probably the only servant he could hope to defeat because of the way both their powers work.
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>>101995256
To be quite frank, you sound more obnoxious thant the purported Gilfags.
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>>101995934

Shirou/Archer are perfecting suited to fight Gilgamesh when he is only using GOB****
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>>101996040
Never mind how Shirou noted that Gilgamesh would overwhelm him if he wasn't apeshit.
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>>101996040
Good thing GOB is his go-to attack. He only uses Ea against a select few people.
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>>101996113
>>101996135

Well we know that Gilgamesh having a reincarnated body is pretty much the reason why he is stupid in FSN
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>>101996113
We're talking about the reality marble here. Without unleashing UBW neither Archer nor Shirou could hope to project weapons fast enough to fight Gilgamesh if he got serious with his GoB spam.

That's why they use UBW, then Gilgamesh is the one who can't spam fast enough.
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>>101995917
>GIL HAS A BUNCH OF OVERPOWERED STUFF THAT EVEN SHIROU/ARCHER CAN'T COUNTER WITH UBW LIKE EA, IN FACT EA IS A STRAIGHT COUNTER TO UBW SINCE EA DESTROYS REALITY MARBLES LIKE YOUR MOM SUCKS COCKS

If you payed attention to that entire fight scene, once the reality marble went up Gilgamesh was cornered as Shirou kept the pressure up. Gilgamesh can't grab anything specific out of his gate because Shirou kept smashing them even faster since the swords in UBW are already there, and to try to grab Ea would be a fatal weakness that would lose him that arm.
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>>101996220

Which is why, UBW is the counter to GOB, nothing else.

>>101996298

He should have never put EA away to begin with, should have just kept it out after using it on Rhio and just attacked with it again. would have won easily.
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>>101996298
He can put his armor on effortlessly which would protect him for enough time to pull out Ea.
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>>101996298
I always interpreted it as Gil taking too long. The pressure kept increasing because UBW spawns swords faster than GoB, so there is basically an ever increasing ratio of swords in favor of Shirou. If he had gone strait for Ea when UBW was cast, I suspect he might have managed it. There no guarantee Shirou was going to hit him as he went for Ea.

Plus, if Gil really wanted to he could just always use Ea. He is able to draw swords faster then UBW can be cast.
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>>101996355
Gil tried using Ea but Shirou stopped him. Gil couldn't do shit once Shirou had him in his reality marble. It's like Shirou said, he's naturally suited to fighting Gilgamesh. Don't know why gilgababies deny this.
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>>101996220
Shirou said that within UBW.

Obviously it would be different with Emiya, and UBW is still faster on the draw, but Shirou nonetheless attributed part of Gil's failure to perform adequately to the fact that he was simply too mad to clear his head.
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>>101996421
Too bad Gil is an arrogant cock who didn't take a faker seriously. His pride and his lack of real skill are why he never wins.
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>>101996399
He'd still need to reach for it like any other NP, and there are NPs in UBW that go through anything as though it wasn't there sort of like Diamund's spear. How do we know that such things are in UBW you ask? Because we see Gilgamesh using them earlier, one of them would be that Harpe blade he used against Saber in Fate route which she barely avoided. How would Shirou ever know to use something like that? Because that's how UBW works, he analyzes shit and knows how it works.

Main point though is that to pull out anything like his armor would only give him a moment of weakness there. Also he had his pride so he thought if he had to step back even an inch then it's the same as admitting defeat to a mere human, not even a Heroic Spirit but just a human.
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>>101996431

No. He used EA and EMIYA's Rhio blocked it, then Gilgamesh was retarded enough to put it away after only using it once.

If he had EA out while in UBW he would have just broken the RM but once again Gilgamesh was retarded enough to put the counter to RM's away.
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>>101996487
Still denying the fact that Shirou tells Rin before the fight even starts that he could beat Gil because of their skillsets.
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>>101996522
But we see Gilgamesh draw the weapon that bypasses armor in Fate, and Heroic Spirit Emiya isn't from any route.
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>>101996640
We also see Gilgamesh use Gae Bolg origin against Berserker to slip past Godhand defense, so chances are the same would work against Gil himself.
>>
>>101996555
I'd take this sort of dialogue with a pinch of salt.

He can beat Gilgamesh thanks to his skillset, yes, but he also said he'd lose if Gil was composed. It's both UBW and Gil's distraught mindset that led to his defeat.
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>>101996736
Odds are it was just a high enough rank, that's all.
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>>101996910
When the name is cast the spear has already struck the heart, it doesn't matter what shield is in the way. If Shirou can copy Nine Lives then he can copy other techniques.
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>>101996900
Heroic Spirit Emiya=/=Shirou
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>>101990284
Putting aside whether I actually think Archer can beat Zerker he can, your argument is pretty silly.
>If Scissors can beat paper, and paper can easily kill rock then how in the world could scissors lose?
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>>101996997
>>
>>101996900
>>101997070
gilgababies get rekt
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wait, didn't shirou beat zerker after archer dies buying them time?
if shirou becomes archer shouldn't archer be able to beat zerker too
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>>101997234
Shirou beat Herc because he traced Excalibur.
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>>101997234

>Not reading the thread

You have to kill Herackles 12 times in a row, Archer did 6 and Shirou finished it with the remaning kills
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>>101997104

Get wrecked by what? We know UBW is a counter to GOB
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>>101997234
Archer "can" beat Berserker, but it's a very uphill fight. Archer has to kill Berserker twelve times in a row with twelve fatal strikes, while Berserker only has to hit Archer ones to really win.

It's doable, but it would be more doable with support. Archer however is not a slouch, just look at the condition of Berserker after fighting Archer.
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>>101997234
Saber beat Berserker
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>>101997307
That's not what the novel says.
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>mfw five servants tried to enter my shrine gate
>MY FUCKING SHRINE GATE
Bitch pls I don't need a noble phantasm to kick your ass
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>>101997390
Except it says exactly that
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>>101997390

Those statements are made by people that don't know the true nature of EA nor have any knowledge of Enkidu.

The only thing those statements mean is that UBW > GOB
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>>101997390
It's exactly what the novel says. UBW counters GoB, that's that.

But it's just part of the rock-paper-scissors triangle. GoB isn't necessarily an inferior Noble Phantasm overall.
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>>101997475
most casual servant ever
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>>101997104
Statements from Rin and Emiya are anecdotal at best.
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>>101997522
GOB is a treasury and UBW is a Smith/Armory
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UBW>GOB

EA>UBW

End of discussion
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>>101997475
>Li Shuwen
>has an anti-gate NP
Say goodbye to your brother assassin
>>
>>101997475
Could Emiya trace Fake Assassin?
>>
Rock / Paper / Scissors is the nature of the Nasuverse as a whole, it's why Fate/Extra's fighting style is the way that it is.

Shiki can kill Arcuied due to compatibility, but he isn't stronger than her, Ciel can easily beat Shiki, however Arcuied can easily beat Ciel. Archer can beat Gilgamesh due to compatibility, Gilgamesh has direct compatibility against Ishkandar, and Ishkandar can probably beat Emiya.

Doesn't mean that one is better than the other, but compatibility is a huge thing in that universe, which is why Nasu says no battle is really set in stone for the most part. He's a huge fan of the underdog turning things around on the top dog.
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>>101997644

He should be able to, 9 Lives and Tsubame are both Techniques not NP
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>>101997587
>Statements from Rin and Emiya are anecdotal at best.
>Statement from Emiya

I'd say Emiya knows his shit since he knew who Gilgamesh was beforehand, and most likely saw him in his version of the war.
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>>101997744
Archer knows Gil because he met him in the past
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>>101997744

That doesn't mean he knows what EA nor Enkidu is. He knows what GOB is and how to counter it perfectly.
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>>101997814
That's exactly what I just said
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>>101997833
>That doesn't mean he knows what EA nor Enkidu is

Enkidu is just a plain metal chain if you don't have divinity, and chances are he saw Ea as Saber most likely fought him in his war.
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>>101997744

We know EMIYA met Gilgamesh in his own timeline but we don't know how Gilgamesh was fighting in that timeline, we are certain that he knows what GOB is, If he knows what EA and Enkidu is is a completely different matter.
>>
>>101997744
I'd value his opinion more than Rin's, but chances are he isn't intimate with the entirety of Gil's skillset.
>>
Man, Fate discussions always make it sound like the ultimate powerlevel machine. But all those hours I could spend procrastinating instead of reading...
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>>101997905
>chances are

We don't know for sure which is the point, and there is no way he understand the true nature of what EA is.

We don't even know how Gilgamesh fought in the version of the 5GW that EMIYA was originally alive in. We don't know how Gilgamesh died in that war.

Regardless his knowledge base is much more of a creditable source that Rin's.

Pretty much >>101997600 is how it works.
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>>101998022
>But all those hours I could spend procrastinating instead of reading...

It's pretty easy to multitask
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>>101998022
It's a damn shame. The Nasuverse, which is set up to avoid straight powerlevels, ends up with constant powerlevel discussion.
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>>101998022
It's really kind of the opposite in a way, Nasu is big on "Anyone can win under the right conditions" and "The weakest can beat the strongest"

It's kind of the irony of it all
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>>101998022

Just DL it and throw it on your hard drive and smash through the prologue when you have some downtime.

Say what you will about Nasu's writing but he drips just enough lore and choice into the first two hours to easily hook most.
>>
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>>101998022
It's kind of ironic, because actual powerlevels mean very little within the story itself. The whole point is that anything can happen.

That said, go fucking read it.
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>>101998206
>4 days, 10 hours

It should be noted that you can 100% it a lot faster if you don't give a damn about voice acting.
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>>101993933
UBW weapons consume far less prana than projections. Projections are extracted from his reality marble. Activate the RM itself and there is no longer a production and manifestation cost.
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>>101998344

The prana cost of using the swords in UBW is somewhere around the cost of Gilgamesh using weapons when GOB is already open.
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>>101998337

>Fate
>Not listening to the VAs

The words of a faker are hollow mongrel.
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>>101998337
Took me about 70 hours with only listening to the voices every now and then, usually during large segments of speech.
>>
>>101998410
>>101998420
I never listened to the voices. I didn't see the point in waiting. I'm done reading by the time they finish the first line.
>>
>>101998410
It didn't even originally come with voices.
>>
>>101998410
Sometimes, the voices are nice to listen to, but goddamn if I hear Sakura say "Sempai..." one more time.
>>
>>101997600
Fuck you Shiki

That said, this guy said it correct.

Gilgamesh was fighting two people and didn't have his chains anymore. He didn't even have his armor. And Gilgamesh was jobbing.
Ea > UBW

To add, UBW and tracing downranks every Noble Phantasm by 1 rank. You need different A rank attacks to pierce Herakles' skin.

Gilgamesh has many different A rank Noble Phantasms. But due to downranking, the number of A rank Noble Phantasms would have would probably something you can count in a finger in UBW.

Broken Phantasms cannot be spammed, since you have to chant a long time before each attack is performed as shown in the battle against Saber.

Berserker can kill you with one swing. Possibly even Gilgamesh with his armor that can tank Excalibur slashes.
>>
>>101998458
Everyone should realistically be done reading before the VA has finished the line but it's nice to listen to and get a feel for the characters.
>>
>>101998547
>jobbing

I hear this all the time, what does it actually mean? I've got a general idea from the way it's used, but specifically?
>>
>>101998605
>jobbing

>When someone is booked to lose a match they are said to being "doing the job" or "putting over" their opponent.

The story demands that they lose so they lose.
>>
>>101998605
Its the opposite of plot armor. Losing for plot convenience. Its usually used to amp up a later fight's dramatic tension.
>>
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>>101998605
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>>101998500

HF was suffering /a/non. For |everyone|, player included.

>>101998605
He used it haphazardly but it basically means when a character loses in a fight not due to their relative abilities but to hype up the abilities of the person they lose to.
>>
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>>101998664
>>101998681
>>101998683
>>101998687
Thanks chums
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>>101998744
Anytime.
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>>101992273
Honestly, the killing berserker mutliple times in one hit was fucking stupid. And a cop out plot armor bullshit by the writer.
>>
>>101998787

Nasu stated it was a cop out because he made Berserker too strong. Fate has some poorly written parts in it
>>
>>101998787
I've wondered, would it be better if it turned out that Archer took him to 11 deaths during their fight?
>>
>>101998865
That bullshit would be worse honestly.
>>
>>101998830
It also pointed out that Saber should be uber strong, but was uber gimped by her summoner and from being a stupid bitch that lost her two most powerful phantasms.
>>
>>101998895
Sounds about right.
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>>101998865
It would have been better if he didn't kill him a single time.
>>
>>101999017
Nah, then we would have lost one of Herc's touching moments of clarity. "Man, I wish I could have fought that dude seriously and fairly. Shit would have been EPIC."
>>
>>101999114
Truly a poet.

I want it too, Herc. I want it too.
>>
>>101990638
>and was also still injured from Saber's stab.

No, he wasn't. It's even stated he fully recovered. He lost because he's a nobody and Berserker is Herakles.

That's all.
>>
>>101999114
>Man, I wish I could have fought that dude seriously and fairly
So many people in Fate just want this.
>>
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>>101998744

No prob
>>
>>101996298

If you pay attention to CCC and Zero, you see Gil has a fucking space ship and a lot of things Archer can't counter for shit. What he'll do against Gilgamesh if he goes all out? Absolutely nothing.

Nasu himself tells the readers he's the most powerful Servant for a fucking reason and he admits in shame he fucked up every time he made him job like against what he mockingly says "the power of love" in Fate.

Honestly, the only FSN Gil death that made sense was against the Shadow because his body was made of it and he had decapitated Sakura.
>>
>>101999256
That's what most of the Servants wanted. Nobody gave a shit about the grail.
>>
>>101999381
There was no choice but for him to job. Gilgamesh was basically summoning the win button. Only way he doesn't run the table is from him and everyone else being too dumb to press the button.
>>
>>101999381

The only other Heroic spirit who could "match" Gilgamesh at 100% would be Enkidu. not that they would fight however
>>
>>101999521
This is why I'm pretty sure Fake's Player would be completely fucked if what's written really revealed everybody's trump cards.
>>
>>101999521
And even that was before Gilgamesh hadcompleted his vault.
>>
>>101999683

We know for certain that Enkidu can match GOB and EA. because of how his body functions.
>>
>>101999759
They were equal, yeah. Enkidu ran out of clay, and Gil ran out of weapons to fire. But that was still before he completed his vault.
>>
When it comes down to it, Hercules shouldn't have lost to anyone except Gil. I mean the guy is Hercules, with ridiculous stat boosts to strength. No way that Caster could weigh him down. Against Saber, 9 lives in one hit was bullshit since his NP is supposed to make him immune to whatever killed him last. And
>>
>>102000136
A-and?
>>
>>102000136

Enkidu hard counters Hercules, the only form of Hercules that could fight Gilgamesh would be Archer for obvious reasons.
>>
>>101995256
>That EMIYA couldn't do what Proto-EMIYA Shirou could?
No, that Gil would just murder EMIYA before he got UBW up.
>>
>>101997278
>Excalibur
Wasn't it Caliburn?
>>
>>102000472

Yes.
>>
>>101996975
>If Shirou can copy Nine Lives then he can copy other techniques.

That's Shirou with Archer's arm, while also killing himself with it.
>>
Reminder that Prototype Gil's design is better in every way.
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>>102000136
>>102000313

Guess he realized mid-sentence how garbage his post was. The rules of his resistance are clear, upon conclusion of the initial attack he gains immunity, if that attack can burn through multiple lives he can't stop it.

>>102000585
Imp-lying Proto-EMIYA is superior to Archer EMIYA
>>
>>102000625
And only the design.
>>
>>102000585
>Archer's arm
That always bothered me, why doesn't the arm just disappear when it's cut off?
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>>102000625
A shame about the personality
>>
>>102000736
Doesn't Kotomine say something about this? How Archer still had to hold on to life until the operation was complete to maintain the arm's existence, but once it was grafted on it was compatible enough to stick around?
>>
>>102000736
Wrong way around. Everything else got cut off
>>
CCC Gilgamesh > F/S Gilgamesh > F/Z Gilgamesh > F/P Gilgamesh > F/SN Gilgamesh

Discuss.
>>
I have a question.

We know that when Saber gets the Holy Grail or breaks the contract, she dies and becomes a Heroic Spirit. And we also know that the Throne of Heroes exists outside of time and space, which is why Archer could be summoned.

In the VN we get 3 different Sabers, and there are parallel worlds we don't see. So who becomes the Heroic Spirit exactly? We know Fate Saber breaks the contract for sure, but what about UBW Saber and HF Saber? They have to reach their ends one day.
>>
>>102000945
>So who becomes the Heroic Spirit exactly

None of them, Avalon grabs the real one, and the Throne makes a copy based on her.
>>
>>102000894
There's nothing to discuss, you're absolutely right.
>>
>>102000894
Ko-Gil > shit > every other Gil
>>
>>102000894
I'd swap Protoype's with FSN's.
>>
>>102001029

Such shit taste.
>>
>>102001014
But aren't they all real in their own parallel worlds?
>>
>>102001066
Yes, liking any Gil besides Ko-Gil is shit taste.
>>
>>102001048
The only bad thing about Prototype Gil is his personality.
>>
>>102001089
Which I find appalling and unmemorable.
>>
>>102001048
>>102001089

F/SN Gilgamesh also suffers personality issues which is why i put Proto above F/SN
>>
So

Original Gilgamesh > Excited Gilgamesh > Cranky Gilgamesh > Not-Gilgamesh > Retarded Gilgamesh

amirite?
>>
>>102001192
was meant to quote >>102000894
>>
>>102001192
Kid Gilgamesh > all.
>>
>>101990284
Archer needs to trace A++ weapons in order to harm Berserker since they get downgraded 2 ranks. He probably traced every weapon that could harm him. It's just an unfortunate circumstance of having to fight such an awkward passive while being unable to target the servant's master. Once he loses Nine Lives he is exceptionally vulnerable to servants like Archer hence why Shirou was able to nine-lives him albeit with some last second assistance.
>>
>>102001192
Naked Gilgamesh > *
>>
Ko-Gil should be below FZ, but above Prototype.
>>
>>102001029
>>102001086
>>102001251

Ko-Gil is pretty much the same as CCC Gil.

>>102001305

Naked = Original i would think
>>
>>101992069
He wasn't struck by Caliburn so much as he was hit by it's magic attack. Once he regens the same attack won't work twice but he probably took 5 simultaneous fatal wounds and wasn't granted immunity.
>>
>>102001305

But Naked Gil is CCC ?
>>
>>102001336
I don't think he's the same as CCC Gil at all. He was "somewhat" more reasonable, but he wasn't the paragon of virtue his child form was cracked to be.
>>
>>102001336
>Ko-Gil is pretty much the same as CCC Gil.

Not from what I've seen. CCC Gil is not a worthless douchebag like F/SN Gil, but he's still pretty heavy on the ego. Ko-Gil is much more down-to-earth.
>>
>>102001469

From what i remember Ko-Gil is pretty much Gilgamesh who has looked back at his life and hs choosen to take it easy for a while, he lacked the whole "Kingly feeling" when he was Ko-Gil or at least it felt that that for me
>>
Berserker = Rock
Shirou = Scissor
Archer = Paper
>>
>>102001519
Even CCC Gilgamesh was killing MC for sport at the beginning. Really, he's still an ass.
>>
Yes. If you choose to insult CCC Gil when talking to him it leads to an instant game over as he kills you.
>>
>>102001556

Berserker = Rock
Enkidu = Paper
GOB = Paper

Shirou Without UBW = nothing
Shirou with UBW = Scissors
Gilgamesh with GOB = Paper
Gilgamesh with EA = Rock

Fix'd

>>102001606
I rather enjoyed the whole sidegame they had on the main website tbh, If you are dumb enough to insult Gilgamesh you deserve what he does to you
>>
>>102001519
Ko-Gil just has a totally different mindset than regular Gil. In F/HA, he practically treats his older persona like a different individual.
>>
Why does he even appear naked in his CCC Servant ending?
>>
>>102001556

It's less people countering people, it's more NP/Techniques countering other NP/Techniques.

You are simplifying it too much
>>
>>102001716
Regarding the side-game, he kills you even when you don't insult the guy.
>>
>>102001777
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGPg3bq-5ZI

Watch it, it's pretty obvious why he does it

>>102001792
Well we know he is cranky when people wake him up.
>>
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>>102001777
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>>101990284
Fate archer probably doesn't have the variety of weapons traced in his reality marble compared to his ubw counterpart. He definitely would have fare better if he is keeping his distance while fighting berserker.
>>
>>102003671
It's the same Servant. The three routes diverge after he's summoned.



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