Why was Gohan so freakishly strong? It seemed like every time he had his power "unlocked", he still had boatloads more to unlock. The only thing that held him back was his lack of fighting spirit but maybe Gohan was the true legendary super saiyan and not Goku. Goku busted his ass to get his power but Gohan's always had it, and then some. Like a prodigy or some shit.
>Why was Gohan so freakishly strong?
Hybrid fruit is just better fruit.
You can't have a shounen without asspulls everywhere.
Muh diversity so progressive.
He is a half human hald saiyan, which gives him a huge potential. This is freaking stupid and was only done so in order for Toriyama to speed up his power level growth.
>maybe Gohan was the true legendary super saiyan
Not a true saiyan. Gohan's potential has a limit unlike true saiyans.
JIDF pls go!
Unlock potential. Basically a trait of half human/half saiyan, ultimately if he had chosen to continue practicing at the same intensity as his father he would have surpassed him eventually. The reasoning behind it was poor but if left the way he had done it, Gohan would have been the strongest single person in the series. Probably only second to Vegito which as I said isn't a single person. Also GT is not canon before any faggots try to say otherwise.
But what about Goku Ssj4?
Gohan couldnt handle him with or without training!
I think toriyama wanted him to be the most powerful and the main character but, he rarely ever got his way.
I fucking hate SSJ 2.
Would have been instantly better if SSJ 2 looked like SSJ 3 and it brought out the Sayians animal instincts.
Gohan would have went rabid like a monkey on Cell and his own teammates. In his new surge of power, he would have accidentally killed his father or some shit.
He basically did. After deciding to extend the manga past Frieza, Cell's defeat was the intended endpoint with Gohan having surpassed and succeeded his father. But then Toriyama was pressured to continue the manga yet again, so we got the Buu saga and Goku being the hero yet again like all the fans wanted.
toriyama wanted to make him the new MC but fan backlash made him reconsider and bring goku back.
also going by DBZ logic; as a saiyan you should just let yourself get almost killed and then eat a senzuu and your powerlvl would multiply. I don't know why vegeta stopped abusing this after the freeza saga.
>maybe Gohan was the true legendary super saiyan and not Goku
Broly was the true legendary super saiyan, did you really watch DBZ ?
choose one you tard and going by noncanonical shit, bardock is the true legendary super saiyan
The half blood in him probably. I remember vegeta mentioning saiyan/ human blood makes a stronger hybrid to napa after raditz sent the data from earth.
That would probably explain why trunks was stronger then vegeta.
I mean I liked the buu saga, but god, they've made Gohan such a bitch
I mean I was like hell yea, ascended Gohan, then hell yea when I thought Goku would fuse with Gohan, but no.
It either goes Gohan realises his untapped powers and does something to access it
Goku screams, which somehow gives him infinite power
Vegeta training constantly only to get the short end of the stick
and Trunks and Goten being cocky faggots, who having reached super sayian before ten become useless.
I think it's because he inherrited his potential from Goku. The problem is that it's latent because he never trains to realize his full potential unlike Goku. Who is always training as hard as he can to constantly break his limits.
well, vegeta basically surpassed goku in the latest movie.
More importantly, why could Goten and Trunks go super sayain with absolutely no effort at all
Well sorta. Vegeta did in normal circumstances with his ssj(or was it ssj2?) beat down on Bill
Which kinda makes you go "Hell yea, about time"
Which is still confusing. Is it a level multiplier like the super sayian stages, or is it a set power level? I mean, any sayian true of heart can do it apparently
Like the one and only fucking time that Gohan ever trained as hard as Goku was during the Cell Saga and he ended up surpassing his father without even realizing it.
When he watched his father fight against Cell he thought that Goku was just fucking around even though Goku was going all out. It's because he was training as hard as goku and had temporarily surpassed it.
But once Cell was beaten then Gohan went back to his natural thing which is to fuck off and not train. So Goku and Vegeta again grew stronger and broke their limits again.
I heard this from somewhere but offsprings of Saiyans who can go SSJ can easily do the same
Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize that but even Goku and someone else in the movie remarks on how Vegita in that moment had surpassed Goku.
Also, Goku only went god form with help but it could be possible that Goku and Vegita have unlocked something different or a way to tap into that power without all 5 of them channeling into a single person.
Or it could just be some saiyain thing that Vegeta alone has tapped into.
But was Trunks even conceived after Vegeta had become super sayain? I thought it was before.
Bitch, you know it's true > : <
I don't really think so.
I'm sure Goku only did it because he's the main character..
And he also remarked he didn't like SSJG because it wasnt something he could do or achieve on his own. Thought it was a form of cheating.
Not sure what it is but the same thing happened for Gohan too.
Their offspring seem to be born near their fathers current power level when conceived/born.
Gohan was even stronger than Goku in fact during Raditz invasion.
Well forget I said that. There was a Super Saiyan bargain sale.
I just remembered of Episode of Bardock, don't know if it's still considered canon.
I blame his mother.
With Goten I blame his mother again. Trunks got trained by Vegeta so I believe it.
Vegetas outburst and having the ability to dmg an enemy Goku couldn't lay a finger on was one of the best scenes in DBZ history. SSJ God is the worst thing in DBZ history.
Also I guess Vegeta needs to train in heaven to achieve SSJ3? Which would srsly buttfuck goku
>I'm sure Goku only did it because he's the main character..
What I'm saying is that Vegeta somehow was able to hurt Bills while not even SSJ3. Then there's Goku who managed to fight Bills on par pretty much without using SSJG form.
There was something new unlocked or going on that enabled them to do this. Because their normal SSJ forms were getting slapped around with one hit.
I don't think Gohan was more powerful then Goku until he went ssj2 and again when he got his assented form
I think Gohan just had infinite potential or something like that
And I can some how understand the current power level thing, but does that mean Bardock was weak as shit?
In the first few episodes of DBZ, Gohan had a higher power level.
Like when he bodied Radditz.
Most sayains only had a 500-4000 power level, man. Vegeta had already surpassed his dad before he was even in the show.
Not sure about Bardock at all.
But iirc Gohan was able to hurt Raditz but it was only temporary. Just like how Gohan powered up temporarily to be able to fight Freeza in his later forms.
I forgot the other guy's name next to Bills but it would be cool if that guy powered up Goku and Vegeta in secret just to fuck with bills.
for a second, then he went back to having a powerlvl of 1 lol
fuck, powerlvls are such BS
It's obvious that the stronger the father, the stronger the offspring. This is why non-future trunks was a super saiyan as a kid, same with Goten.
That and bad writing.
I still don't know if vegeta was in ssj2 when he beat down Bill.
And that's probably because Vegeta is stronger then Goku, as was stated by Goku himself.
Only be able to get ssj3 after you die...that would be so broken
Then again that's also hard to believe seeing how Gotenks can go ssj3
>And that's probably because Vegeta is stronger then Goku, as was stated by Goku himself.
No, he meant that in that moment that he had surpassed him. Not that he was stronger the entire time. Because it's obvious that Goku reached that level as well when he fought Bills without using SSJ God form.
I think whatever Goku was using to do that is what Vegeta had previously tapped into to be able to damage Bills.
I mean there's no way that Vegeta could normally do it if he was only SSJ and Goku's SSJ3 couldn't even do shit to Bills.
Maybe if they make another movie it will be expanded on. I figure it has something to do with their emotions. Just like how SS1 seems to be unlocked by rage.
>Only be able to get ssj3 after you die...that would be so broken
>Then again that's also hard to believe seeing how Gotenks can go ssj3
He's a fusion. Fusion forms are always way stronger.
Bill said he was only able to contend with him in normal ssj form is because the left over power in ssjg for, did he not?
and ssj is unlocked through rage, but needs a physical and mental power as well
Something like that, SSJ God isn't only the red hair shit but also a general power up
But he's Bills master and servant. Why would he do that?
>Bill said he was only able to contend with him in normal ssj form is because the left over power in ssjg for, did he not?
Maybe that's true but then does that mean that Vegeta also tapped into that power as well? I mean there's no real reason that he should have been able to inflict any damage to Bills as SSJ2 when Goku's SSJ3 got knocked out in 1 hit and couldn't even land a blow?
I'm just saying. They both were able to damage him somehow and they are both Pure Blood saiyan with comparable strength. It's likely that they both tapped into the same ability to fight him.
They clearly meant that Vegeta, pre-ssjgod Goku, was the stronger fighter. This was made obvious from the fact SS3 Goku didn't do jack shit to Bills, while non-SS3 Vegeta beat him down for a moment.
The movie is still retarded because of how much every other character aside from a small handful had their personalities destroyed. The whole buildup with Bills on Earth made no fucking sense in how everyone went batshit at him knocking Buu away, which should have been obvious it was going to happen.
>This was made obvious from the fact SS3 Goku didn't do jack shit to Bills, while non-SS3 Vegeta beat him down for a moment.
I'm done man. You don't understand what I'm saying. I don't feel like trying to explain and having you argue with me. Sure man whatever you say.
And he's also his trainer.
Creating powerful foes for his pupil to train with and having a challenge sound plausible to me.
Also he sees Goku as a possible successor to bills.
btw an interesting interview with AT if you havn't seen it yet
....Why do you have to be butt hurt?
Vegeta was just bluntly stronger then Goku. After all, Super Sayian is just a level multiplierl
And I understand with the personality thing.
>>Videl , not spunky or tom boy ish anymore. No outstanding qualities at present
quads speak truth
Yeah, virtually all of the side cast were just cardboard copies of the real ones it seemed. That was the most irritating thing about the whole movie.
Because the author likes little boys
Power Levels are the best and worst thing Toriyama ever came up with.
I always assumed it was the purity of his character, since the old basis of Super Saiyan was having a Pure Heart, but when Toriyama decided EVERYONE GOT A SUPER SAIYAN he was left with all this foreshadowing and just went "whatever"
why don't they just wish back the sayain race?
they were assholes
Remember Nappa and Vegeta when they arrived on Earth? Imagine a planet full of those crazy fucks who enjoy nothing more than to conquer planets and wiping out any resistance.
Freeza did the universe a favor when he destroyed their home planet.
These. Basically all of them would just go around destroying shit.
Then again, if Vegeta stayed a bad guy, he would probably try to do so, and lead them himself. But by the time came around he could do something like that, he was a good guy.
Well if youre not counting Vegito (Fagarot) then Gohan was the strongest single person at the end of Z, by a fucking longshot.
I dont get why toriyama didnt make the humans more powerful, i blame it to the fact that he made his manga more sci fi than fantasy in Z (or part 2), so in order to get absurd power levels, and made them believable (like mutants, or radioactive things) they made the protagonist from another planet.
It took over 280 episodes for Vegeta to become a good guy, someone should've taken out that maniac long before the boo saga
Well .. he always had the tail and turned into a giant gorilla on full moon so there was at least some foreshadowing.
Because it's anime, and half-breeds are always stronger than their pure-blood counter parts
>all of these ill-informed anons calling Beerus "Bills"
>all of these idiots thinking there's a "canon"
It's ok, you can still masturbate while watching GT even though it's not canon and never will be.
You don't have very good reading comprehension, do you?
>being a GT fanboy
>dismissing all canon so GT isn't left out
don't worry, I already saw through you
GT a shit. I don't know what you're talking about.
don't deny it now, boy
It's Beers you enormous weeb faggot.
canon wise is the strongest after Super Saiyan God ?
no it's vegeta, didn't you watch the movie?
also whis>bills>ssj god
Lemme get this straight. Pointing out the fact that Dragon Ball distinctly lacks an official canon equates to me having a raging hard-on for GT?
Anon, /pol/ is supposed to be the board for mental gymnastics.
Do elaborate on your reasoning, kind anon.
I'm talking about the protagonists and all that about Vegeta being for a few moments stronger was BS
>Why was Gohan so freakishly strong?
Because the author wanted him to be.
There's no sense to be made in Dragonball. Why the fuck are people arguing over freaking arbitrary powerlevels not based on reality at all?
I'll never understand this.
Whis > Beerus > SSj God > SSj Vegetto > Buuhan > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > SSj3 Gotenks > SSj3 Goku > Kid Buu
>Why the fuck are people arguing over freaking arbitrary powerlevels not based on reality at all?
It's been foreshadowed since the beginning of DBZ that Gohan would get ridiculously strong. His potential began to truly blossom after the Guru unlocked it for him, and began the SSJ training. Then of course old man Sup. Kai overdosed his potential.
I feel like Gohan was a character that was supposed to be recognized as the truly strongest, but never was able to fully become that due to the situations he was put in(having somewhat normal life and rarely even having a reason or desire to train and fight all the time) Why do you think Goten becomes so ridiculously weak after neglecting training to go out with cute girls? Gohan was a perfect example of the modern Saiyan, I wish they continued the series of GT or made a separate one for Pan, first female SSJ would've been pretty gdlk
I'm hoping that after Buu Kai is finished, they totally redo GT, keeping the few good ideas in tact, while giving it a massive overhaul with full involvement from Toriyama.
But that won't happen because life is suffering.
Because your mum is a tumblr land whale...?
And you smell of elderberries!
it wasn't BS, it happened, and it was acknowledged by goku, what more do you want?
I think Vegetto was on par with the gods. He was fucking with Buuhan in SSJ1 and effortlessly dominating him, and still had SSJ2 and 3 left to transform to. Considering SSJ3 Goku was shitting himself at the prospect of fighting regular Super Buu, and Buuhan was many times stronger than that, I think it's safe to say that SSJ1 Vegetto is on the order of hundreds of times stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
Because there's no honor/pride in cheaply powering up.
Vegeta only considered doing that on Namek because he was up against Freiza, and he knew he had no chance in hell of winning/staying alive unless he sacrificed some of his honor and pride to do so.
>Because there's no honor/pride in cheaply powering up.
So, I'm not exactly up to par with Dragon Ball, but what is there left to be defeated?
Last I looked, the power level of some weird SSJ gods were reached and Goku battled some sort of battle god of death.
What's next? Extra-dimensional warp gods? Multi-dimensional something-something gods?
How far will powerleveling go?
Buu Kai is out? Oh god, where have I been. MAybe hopefully SOMEHOW but doubtdly, I'd even take a short manga series or OVA at tis point, but Pan was a gem. It genuinely disappoints me they didn't use her for a better story. GT was just some shit. It dragged on ridicously(not saying part of me didn't LOVE it). But yeah, it ws major downgrade from the Buu Saga. It was just some hack ob that pissed me off becasue of all the wack enemies they couldn't take on for some lame reason or another, and SSJ not meaning a damn thing out there. And Trunks was so USELESS. I swear I barely saw him do a thing worth mentioning. Just oh my god, I really do hope they rework it.
There's 12 universes full of gods and asspulls
Why didn't they just wish Gohan back to life to kill Kid Buu?
Bills said powerlevel isn't enought to defeat him
according to toriyama:
SSJ God is a 6, Bills is a 10 and Whis(on the left) is a 15.
Whis didn't fight in the movie, but he said something about other people that are as powerful as him.
I thought it was confirmed that was just hyping up that Jump game?
Whis just flat-out states that there are 12 universes at the end of the movie
Because Vegeta told Goku to fuck off with that idea and use a Spirit Bomb instead.
HE WAS THE CHOSEN ONE
Then why was Vegeta so stupid?
Why didn't Gohan suggest to go fight after being revived?
Because Goku is the fucking hero and don't you god damn forget it
Because Vegeta wanted Earth to go give energy for a spirit bomb so they could "help themselves" for once.
>Why didn't Gohan suggest to go fight after being revived?
Because Goku was meant to be the hero that saved the day in that Saga.
I'm rather sure the reason Saiyan/Human hybrids can go Super Saiyan so easily is because as half human they have better control over their emotions.
Nope. Probably sub 10x.
More like humans don't have good emotional control. Also the reason is mostly due to mutant gene most likely.
Relatively civil DBZ discussion on /a/? What the fuck?
After becoming Super Saiyan God and fighting Beers a bit, Goku says he never knew there was a "realm" like this [the word here, sekai, means "world" or "realm" and is presumably being used metaphorically to mean a general level of power. For instance, during the Cell arc Trunks tells Kuririn about how Vegeta got super strong training in the RoSaT, but one day Trunks surpassed that "realm" by reaching the form we now call Super Saiyan Grade III. In the film, "realm" pops up again later when Beers says Goku has absorbed SSG's "realm" into his body, but more on that later. Goku's surprise at the "realm" of SSG could be taken to mean it's stronger than Vegetto (and any other form Goku's ever reached before), but maybe he's surprised that he got this strong without using a form of fusion. This is also the same movie where Mister Satan has to be told again about how Dende is God of Earth, so arguably Goku going "wow, never knew I could get this strong" isn't too conclusive].
>Buu Kai is out?
That's contradicted by Gohan, who had to struggle with it like the full-blooded Saiyans.
This happens almost every time, from what I've seen anyway.
Not him, but this link isn't loading for me.
Also out of curiosity what was every bodies favorite part in the movie?
I think its because how he was raised, Saiyans are really repressive of there emotions, despite the fact that Saiyans get more powerful depending how strongly they feel about something.
Gohan grew up as a pampered child and did nothing but fear the world around him.
Vegetto was created from earrings that had the power of gods in them. Who's to say he didn't have some measure of divinity himself?
It's definitely more than 10. Super Buu was on par with SSJ3 Gotenks. SSJ1 Gotenks was said by Toriyama to be roughly equal in raw power to SSJ3 Goku(but worse at fighting). SSJ2 and 3 are both x2 multipliers from the previous state, so we can conclude that Super Buu was 4x stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
Mystic Gohan was beating Super Buu pretty effortlessly, but began losing when Buu absorbed Gotenks. So he was probably about twice as strong as Super Buu. Assuming the powers add algebraically, Super buu + SSJ3 Gotenks + Gohan = 4x Super Buu. And since Super Buu is 4x SSJ3 Goku, Buuhan would therefore be 16x SSJ3 Goku. And Vegetto was beating that before even turning SSJ. Sicne SSJ is a 50x multiplier, we know that SSJ1 Vegetto is at a bare minimum 800 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
But Toei said Battle of Gods is part of Dragonball's "official History." What does "official History" mean then if not canon?
>Who's to say he didn't have some measure of divinity himself?
You'd think Goku would remember how to sense that kind of ki.
They still haven't used the word "canon". That's something that has to be defined.
Because piccolo was a bitchin teacher.
>What does "official History" mean then if not canon?
"Shit Toriyama had a big part in"?
Vegeta gains a rage boost when bills hit bulma. It was like Gohan gains a lot of power after a rage boost.
Do you also call it Super Sayai-Jin ya fucken weebs.
yes. it's ssj in german too you retard.
I blame those SC custom maps.
Piccolo was one hell of a training instructor and Gohan is half-human/half-Saiyan so he gets some kind of hybrid power boost referred to in some vague descriptions for them.
gohan had all of his oozaru power and/or warrior lust suppressed by his mom. it only ever broke free during traumatic experiences. that made him the poster boy for rage related power, which just so happens to be the key for saiyans to acquire new levels of strength
>games call it SSJ
Trying too hard to fit in, etc.
>Broly was the true legendary super saiyan, did you really watch DBZ ?
you realize brolly was ONLY in the movies, and the TV show completely ignored him, right?
I hope they don't hit each other too hard.
Here's the thing
Gohan came from a long line of powerful warriors on both sides.
His mother was stronger than his grandfather, and his father was stronger than his other grandfather.
On top of that, from what we've seen about saiyans is that they have relatively steady growth, spiking up every time they nearly die and then not making too much progress between (without super special training, of course)
However, we see the reverse happen with humans. Humans get very progressively stronger, even without special training. Adult Krillin only received one special powerup, the one from guru, but yet he went from being a 206 at the start of Z to being comparable to frieza (at least one of his forms) by the android arc just a couple years later.
That's intense for having virtually no special training during that time.
On top of that, humans are naturally more adept at ki manipulation and sensing. Vegeta had to learn it after being exposed to earthlings, and none of frieza's people can.
So Gohan, having the high power of a saiyan, mixed with the natural powerspiking and ki usage of a human, would obviously make him a threat.
And on top of that, he's coming from a lineage of successively STRONGER individuals (not unlike some families have progressively taller generations).
And he's from the strongest lineage on the saiyan side, and one of the strongest lineages on the human side.
Combine that with a human's nasty tendency to get emotional powerspikes, and the saiyan's tendency to have transformations unlocked by emotional powerspikes, and there you have it.
Why did Goten not have as much potential? 6 years of Goku being dead, and no piccolo training.
gohan's father and grandfather were weak though. goku even weaker than his father...
Thanks to the genes that he has inherited from goku pure saiyan blood. Half saiyan hybrid process great potential power.
>mixed saiyan human hybrid
>trained from a really young age
>get amazing boosts
>buries his emotions inside and releases all his rage in bursts
>goku even weaker than his father...
Bardock was 10k at his death, approximate age 30
Goku surpassed that at the age of 22, before he event went to namek.
And Gohan surpassed that at the age of 5
and bardock was, at the time, pretty much THE strongest saiyan (with possible exception being king vegeta). Furthermore, even 22 years later, his power level was still beyond that of anyone OTHER than Vegeta, prince of saiyans and most powerful, until Goku broke the record after training in the afterlife.
What do you mean "weak"
It was a little underwhelming but the build up to it was pretty great, hell the cell saga was just great in general, character development all around. Vegeta finally getting over himself and helping in the battle brought a tear in the eye.
first off, never quote power levels unless you intend to make a statement about a fighter's tier.
second, you don't inherit the effects of hard work. goku was weak enough to be sent away and bardock was not strong enough to accompany vegeta in freezer's pet saiyan club.
that's what i mean by "weak"
So if the sayains have stronger kids depending on how strong they are at the point of conception, why wasn't Pan the most OP creature in the universe with Mystic Super Sayain haxors?
Because Pan is a girl.
Because Pan was only like 5 years old when the series ended.
She probably achieved super sayain at some point, and probably much further, considering how easily her grandson went Super
If women could even go super saiyan, which they probably can't.
I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise
I know you're just being an epic troll, but still.
Because Toryiama said that he never had any female saiyans because he didn't know how super saiyan would work. I doubt he would have ever had her go super saiyan.
the thought process was though the saiyans were great warriors, they lacked the raw emotions of the humans, and acting on your emotions is pretty fucking powerful