ITT: The biggest Gary-Sues in any anime
how is kirito a gary stu? he's just badass
Fag for starting a thread that will be 300+ shitposts
Fag for not knowing what a Gary Stu is and how Kirito is the definition of it
Tatsuya and his sister, coming Spring 2014
I can't wait for all the "Onii-Sama" to be fully voice acted.
BLA BLA SAO WORST ANIME EVER BLA BLA
Kirito is by far the best anime protagonist. He isn't a fucking pussy, he gets the job done
It's sure nice to just discard a character by throwing a buzzword at him.
Well, he's likely not the BIGGEST gary-stu in anime, but the list of shit he can do doesn't really defend a case for him.
>Has Super Human Reflexes
>Knows where to hit any weapon to break it in a hit or two (if weapon-level differences aren't too high)
>Has Dual Wielding, which was a Skill set specifically designed to fight the final boss. It comes with a number of double-digit hitting skills, 1 of which was able to take out over 2/3 of a Boss's health
>Prolonged his death-sequence, long enough to stab Kayaba, and "die" at the same time.
>Thanks to his Reflexes and speed, can practically OHKill most people.
>Can connect sword-skills together to ignore the stun, that normally hits after each skill, (supposedly only able to sometimes do this)
>After playing GGO, learns how to destroy spells, because sword-skills have elemental attributes, and "spells will never be as fast as bullets". No one else can do this, despite trying for some time.
>Was able to activate sword-skills, before they were implemented (Anime-only)
>Reflexes let him move his sword in the way of the "bullet-prediction line", to effectively block bullets
>Can "predict" the "bullet-prediction line", by looking at where someone is aiming, and at their eyes.
>Can... bring dead flowers back to life?
>Has a wooden sword, made from a 300 year old demon tree, that ate all the resources in its surrounding area.
>Said sword, when "released," turns into a barrage of branches, that eat all magic.
>His sword can also turn people into trees
>Obtains a 400 year old sword made of eternal ice, that's able to freeze 30k Koreans (while at the same time, avoid freezing the hundred-something allies he has, mixed in the crowd)
>Grows wings at will, with the Incarnate System
>Rules Underworld for 200 years, with his Goddess Waifu, establishing world-peace, and making space-travel within UW.
Of course, all this is in a "Virtual World".
But then there's >>101976876
Welp and here I was taking you seriously
Mary Sues allowed too?
You're forgetting that every single chick in SAO wants his dick. No exception. Even his sister and Klein
you had one job
>>ITT: The biggest Gary-Sues in any anime
Just wait till this masterpiece starts
Yeah, that epic meme from >>>/v/
It's only a mary sue if it doesn't work.
>Every single chick
>3 girls through-out the whole series, arguably 4.
It might be virtual but he also has the willpower to overcome the technical limitations of the games he's in. Kawahara has admitted this was years before he came up with the incarnate system so it's not foreshadowing, it's just asspulls. And then there's the part in the real world where his frail-ass coma body can beat his kendo master sister using moves he learned from a video game in which you just hold a position like it's Kinect and the game does the actions for you. The first thing the show did was explain that if you tried physically acting out the moves you did no damage.
How do people go around and just use words they don't understand?
I'm too worried of looking like a idiot if I don't understand what i'm saying.
Watching this now, what are you even talking about dude.
I don't even get why japanse have such a hard on for dual weilding. Well it's a legitimate fighting style and not necessarily shitty, but it's in no way an upgrade to to single weilding. You might rather consider it a downgrade because you have to learn how to fight completely differently now
Bear I normally fucking hate you.
But today you've been slightly more bearable
Which is pretty much every chick in the series. Seriously some only had an appearance to show how they want his dick
Also Sugu counts twice
Because it looks cool.
Who is more of a gary stu?
Kirito or Dubs guy?
Kirito, because he can get dubs on himself, so he isn't reliant on other people's dubs to check dubs.
>worried about looking like an idiot
>cares about what people thinks of him on a manamanoose image-forum
You're already an idiot though.
Unrealisticly strong != Mary Sue
That's not how it works.
It's not a legitimate fighting style. Not one bit.
He can also hack into 4chin and make himself get dubs everytime
Being good at everything ever and every girl ever liking him with him having 0 downsides and then him bending the imposed limits of something = Gary stue.
But it is.
Assuming that your second weapon is something like a parrying dagger.
It's the fact that all the rules bend for him and him only that makes him a Gary Stu, and that he is strong because of it.
There are some rare people who actuallly use it, but it really offers no advantage at all
Are you seriously implying she isn't one?
It gives you more speed, more potential attack power if you're a sweeper/glass cannon. It also makes for much flashier fights.
Oh I don't care what people think about me, I just think that getting the definition or context of words wrong degrades overall the conversations that I have
>Getting unbeatable powers with ease that only he knows
>Everyone who isn't evil likes him
>No distinguishing or flawed personality features
>Multiple girls like him with silly or unexplained reasons
That's a gary stu m8
People on /a/ that hate SAO are terrible.
There are legitimate flaws of the show but they just use the dumbest arguments.
Anon are you confusing real life with Dark Souls again?
>but it really offers no advantage at all
Oh are you saying it's not legit? Like it's inferior as fuck to having a single blade + a shield? Whoa
That's true, but he pointed out how SAO has way too many illogical/bullshit/edgy-preteen(that's /v/ I'm talking about)-pandering aspects to it.
Even then you'd rather have your second hand doing grips, holding your sword (or whatever weapon) with two hands, or replace it by a shield entirely if you only want to parry.
The idea of dual weilding is to have better offensive capabilities, but completely fails at that
Like I can?
How has this faggot not been posted yet?
Someone post the copypasta about characters revolving around Kirito
What a worthless post. If you're going to question flawed criticism, at least point out concrete examples.
too busy being trolled by people pretending to defend SAO
You mean the "he hates" it one?
The one that starts on how his sister wants his dick to such an unbearable level for no reason.
nah, we won't get the full weight of his stu-ness in the anime. Season 2 maybe.
>Anon are you confusing real life with Dark Souls again?
I just couldn't think of the actual name, but it was fairly common to wield a sword and a dagger instead of a sword and a buckler during the Renaissance
In fiction, dual weilding gives you the ability to consantly alternate between blocking and attacking. While the opponent is occupied with one sword, you have another completely free one to hit them with.
she has a face?
You can't stab people with a shield, though.
Uh huh, and could you tell me how this dagger has any advantages than having a buckler, besides looking like dumbass with no protection waiting to get slaughtered?
But with a sword. Also you can whack them with a shield
To be fair, anime imouto always wants their big brother's dick for no reason.
That's really the least SAO problem
You can smash them in the face with it.
>ITT: People with no actual experience discussing their katanatechniques, sharing their personal opinions based on non-existant experince regarding dualwielding
In reality it would be completely offensive with little to no defense besides speed.
You're not dual wielding shields, you dumb fuck.
It gives you two weapons to attack with, meaning your stabbing ability is never occupied. That being said, bashing them with a shield is probably a much safer and effective option.
>not dual weilding shields
>willpower to overcome the technical limitations of the games he's in.
He does this twice in the Light Novels. All through-out the light novels. I just went ahead and included what he did in the Anime and Web-Novel for extra sue-ness.
Though, where does the Author say this, exactly?
And that last part isn't quite right. Sword Skills perform extra damage, yes, however, they were usually a bad idea to use against players, because a player likely had most sword skills memorized. With PvP, you had to rely on actual sword-swinging. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure the System-Assisted movements could probably be forced into muscle memory.
And about his body being frail... Yeah, that's pretty BS, though the author says that they have some kind of EMS Electrodes, that kept his muscles relatively fine, apparently...
Well, that's the definition everyone in 4chan uses
>people still thinking Kirito knows how to hack..
He's good at video games, and computers. That's about it.
Downsides? His Overprotective, "I'll do this alone," antics get him screwed over multiple times?
Far too emotional, and mind breaks when his best friend dies? (web-novel, hasn't occurred in the Light Novel yet)
Yeah I know, but that's just how it starts.Then it breaks down how it applies to all the other main/important characters
You can all shut your retarded mouths now.
This is about rather well documented European history.
I read Hanachirasu and Murasmasa, so I'm an expert in kendo (both ground and aerial versions).
To be fair, you never hear or see any stories about people duel-wielding often.
That should say something about it's merit.
Think about how often you hear about Nukes in reference to war instead of slingshots
There is almost no single person in history or currently alive that used dual weilding as a serious martial art style. Because it's stupid
People on /a/ that hate SAO haters are terrible.
Kirito is admittedly a bit of a Gary-stu, but SAO is based on a light novel. It's meant to be romanticised, in fact that's part of the appeal to those who enjoy it. The more idealised someone is, the better they make as a fantasy. It also makes them less believable but if you want believable characters in fantasy I suggest you go to /lit/ and chat about Song of Ice and Fire.
If you want a real Gary-stu, go one step further than Kirito. Try Goku (DBZ and after).
>Only serious character flaw is stupidity
>The stupidity barely if ever gets in his way
>The plot bends so that he can get time to train
>Gets to Super Saiyan before Vegeta despite having no noble blood
>All of his friends worship him except his ex-enemy
>People stand around for 15 minutes an episode stunned by his new powers.
It's rule of cool. There's nothing else to it.
I love that guy.
In every fucking shonen, or really any fantasy story, the main character has things going in his favor for some unlikely reason.
But because in SAO the main protag is also a teenager and gamer he gets the Mary Sue stamp.
It looks cool.
Yes you can. You just need the right shield.
Let's list famous examples of dual-wielding then.
That's all I've got.
People that hold those who criticize people that hold SAO in low regard in contempt are the worst people.
>What happens when 500 missiles are raining down on you? Are you going to parry all of them?
That's a good video. Thanks.
Let me join, too
YYH is my favorite shonen.
>Yusuke can and does lose fights
>Only one girl likes him and it was handled very well in the beginning
>Trains hard as fuck to obtain powers that are on equal levels as his opponents
>Is a troublemaker with a distinct loud-mouthed personality
YYH is a shonen and it disproves your point.
Ever hear anyone call Yusuke a gary-stu? No.
Kirito earned the title rightfully
Except this fucking guy has no idea what he's talking about. I don't want to get involved in the argument but this guy just talks shit to his camera in his sassy british accent. He knows just as little as random guys on /a/ do.
We're not talking about other shonen, we're talking about SAO. Just because a lot of crappy authors do it does not mean that another author doing it is okay.
Even though no magic MC, but has devices that can literally stop all forms of magic, but can cause global catastrophe in the wrong hands is pretty gray-sue.
No power=/=Alternative power
The argument is about the use of parrying daggers during the Renaissance, which were almost exclusively used for defense.
Except that Goku has a lot of evident flaws like being a complete idiot.
Gary-stu it's not only about overpowered characters.
B-but muh folded nippon steel!
Please kill yourself, you are beyond saving.
Please, just then explain to me, the advantage of having a dagger instead of a buckler.
It's smaller and lighter?
Bucklers still can't stab people or trap swords.
>Mary Sue buzzword
>All girls wanting his dick when it's not that many
>Complaining about unrealistic strength when there are not-too-far-fetched explinations
Most of the things already mentioned ITT
Muh westernized mass produced Imperial Navy swords.
Goku's 'flaw' merely exists to make him more endearing. It doesn't get in the way of his fighting skills nor does he ever suffer from being too stupid to hold down a job because Ox King money.
>stunned by his new powers for 15 minutes.
That happened maybe four times in DBZ because he only had about four distinct power-ups. All your other points make sense, though.
No retort at all, just shit-flinging. Good response bro, you should stop posting your own videos everywhere. If you're not that dude then get off his dick, you're embarassing yourself
>Except that Goku has a lot of evident flaws like being a complete idiot.
Goku wasn't a complete idiot, he was just uneducated.
>thread about Stus
>Not a whisper of Izayoi
Are you even fucking trying, /a/ssholes?
You should see his video on the US Civil War. He makes the argument "the generals were stupid because they didn't make their soldiers charge with their bayonets", and somehow overlooks the fact that every major charge of the war ended with massive casualties on the part of the chargers, because the war involved the use of these things called "rifles".
It's a medieval Longsword
>It doesn't get in the way of his fighting skills
You mean like when he let Freezer power up to 100% because he wants to fight him at full strength?
izayoi is awesome, though
In most other shonen the main character has some flaw that limits his potential or social skills.
He died twice.
They said he can never come back because only resurrect once.
He came back.
Somehow died again.
Got resurrected as a kid.
>it's smaller and lighter
And bamboo sticks are smaller and lighter than swords, people should have won wars with them. What kind of a retarded argument is this? Do you think people were having issues with buckler weight? We are not talking about large shields here.
You have a fucking sword already.
Your only reply to a 6min researched argument was "lol this guy doesn't know what he's talking about" and an ad hominem. And you're talking about retort?
Either you are a trying too hard pretending to be retarded or you're genuinely autistic, either case, stop posting.
I was talking about the katana dipshit.
Well exactly. He clearly hasn't even researched at least half the stuff he rants about. Just because he talks fast and has a posh english accent doesn't make him even remotely qualified to talk about this shit with authority.
Goku's (and everyone else's) lack of education allowed every villain to get away with shit.
"Lets just let him transform... again.."
"Oh, Gohan's not gonna kill Cell, and Cell is in a REALLY weakened state right now? Let's not kill him ourselves, despite the fact that any of us could do it in an instance."
What you meant to say was:
He's a shit character, with no depth.
But then, Mondaiji is a shit anime with no depth, so, par for the course and all?
Kirito is Jesus-Yamato tier gary stu.
Kirito doesn't even come close.
That was made in original japanese tradition with original japanese steel. If it actually used modern steel it probably would've been better
Parrying Daggers were not used to fight wars.
It's a weapon for duels and civilians.
That's not an example of his stupidity but his Saiyan pride/fighting craze. Vegeta has the same flaw and it merely exists to heighten the stakes in a one-sided fight. It's not like Freeza said he'd power up to 100% and Goku let it happen because he was busy trying to count to 100 but failing when he got to 12.
>Even close to biggest sue, much less is actually a legit sue
Not this shit again.
>That's not an example of his stupidity but his Saiyan pride/fighting craze
Which is also a flaw. Disproving your point that his "only" flaw is stupidity.
Case closed I'd say
So you are saying it was for a certain situation with limited rules that don't explore the full potential of fighting power?
Were you literally arguing upon this? You better not be the guy typing the "advantages" of dual wielding, holyshit.
I'm not the person who said this, but just saying Goku's stupidity isn't really a flaw but something played for comedy.
One of the biggest and definitely the best Stu
Not that anon, but the "stupidity" you mentioned isn't a real flaw.
Mary Sue is not a poorly defined term, it's pretty clear around literature circles and I don't understand why /a/ has so much trouble with it. It has less to do with a character and more with their relationship with the world, if the character is idealized by the universe he's in, and I mean universe, not specifically the people in it, they're probably a Mary Sue.
It doesn't matter if they're shown to be perfect in combat and incapable of taking any major failings, there're Mary Sues who fail constantly and get their shit kicked around, what makes them Mary Sues is when the world treats their existance as unflawed despite this.
Kirito isn't a Mary Sue because he has powers that don't even make sense in its own setting, it's because the world bends it's back over and introduces new elements to make him win. It's because all the girls fall in love with him when he doesn't demonstrate any particularly desirable traits. It's because the only people he's ever in opposition with invariably turn out to be bad guys even when they don't look that way at first.
He's saying the exact same things, yet he thinks he's somehow smarter than the other "wrong" guy.
To be honest, I'd still say that four times is a lot for the amount of shots of stunned character's faces and them going "Wtf" in grunt form is a lot.
If you counted the shots of each different stunned individual you'd get a pretty large number.
Well I did cover the stupidity factor, but like others have said, Goku's idiocy never stopped him from fighting rather intelligent aliens with advanced technology who also happened to be able to blow up planets with a single finger. It's more of a comic relief character flaw. The only time I can think of it getting in his way was with Captain Ginyu.
Interesting point, but I think you have to blame the plot the need for the drama of the final transformations rather than the character for this. That type of stupidity is just the kind of plot-bent writing that comes part and parcel with a Gary-Sue.
One could argue that Saiyan pride (if Goku has anywhere near as much as Vegeta has most of the time) actually made Goku a better person because it lead him to fight with self-belief against world destroying monsters. Hardly a "flaw" in context.
>Is the absolut best at any game he ever plays
>every girl he meets instantly wants his dick
>all characters praise him how great he is
>every other character is absolutely worthless when Kirito is here
>has unique ability only he can have
>casually hacks into game from within the game
>gets the special rewards of boss battles because he is of course the guy who does as much damage as the rest of the party together
>author self insert
Tell me how he's NOT a mary sue
Okay, that's a tough challenger.
Why is everyone hating on Kirito?
We finally get a epic badass MC in a anime and everyone hates him?
I never said that, the other anon said that and I disproved it
>Can "predict" the "bullet-prediction line", by looking at where someone is aiming, and at their eyes.
Not trying to defend Kirito, but that's a lie, the "bullet-prediction line" is like a laser that everyone inside the game can see after the first shot.
>they were used but not on the battlefield!
Then who gives a shit. He admits it doesn't get used in the real fights and makes a 8 minute video about how he disagrees, what the fuck.
You have absolutely no idea what a Mary Sue is. Just stop.
>Is the absolut best at any game he ever plays
Stopped right there. You're wrong, go read in the LN before making retarded claims. There are strong players out there who are as strong, if not stronger than his avatar in the main game that he plays after SAO.
>epic badass MC
That's probably because almost nobody on /a/ used the word until SAO.
Well, my point is that for SAO everyone seems to have different expectations than other shows. Anime has a lot of characters that rank pretty high on the Mary Sue scale. But only here people care.
True, but often it's just some shitty token weakness. Like no swimming in One Piece or Natsu vomiting when on a boat.
Except Kirito can predict them before they actually appear.
He literally dodges through a forest of lasers fast enough to dodge the bullet that follows so he can lightsaber them.
If you don't understand what characters are as plot devices, or that Gary-Sues are just poorly disguised plot devices placed often by either poor writers or cynical writers... then no, you can go read about Mary-Sues and come back here and try to say that again. The concept is about more than how overly perfect a character is, it's also about how even the flaws of the character are contrived for the purposes of the show.
>SAO trolls trolling and baiting
I even see reverse trolling.
There's meme again, you guys use this when you have nothing to say and are always in the wrong.
Heavens above, I pray this is bait.
This is the one time weaboos actually have a leg to stand on:
The traditional katana that anime fellates would simply not be affordable enough to subject to this test (unless your last name is Zuckerberg). The one depicted is most likely based off of the WW2 officer katana as the hundred-fold method hasn't been used to make katana for numerous decades.
There's a short doc about this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSZKGzGqOt0 (yes, lulz "etsy doesn't know swords" but watch it) He's one of only a handful trying to recreate the way they were made pre-WW1 (i.e. A soft core wrapped by hundreds to thansands of folds of mountain ore metal)
As I figured. You have absolutely no idea what a Mary Sue is. Thanks for confirming it again
Yes, anime has a lot of shitty writing. As does SAO. Here, the particular subject is SAO's shitty writing, so obviously we're not going to bring up shitty wring from other sources.
>Hating fun this bad
Man your life must suck.
Second part of >>101979285
was meant for >>101978337
>Not understanding how a phrases' definition can widen with use
>Attempts to correct people on its use while anonymous
>Needs things to be perfect if they don't fit with his or her conception
But you're wrong. We've had people like Kira Yamato of Gundam SEED long before SAO. We know and can point out gary-stus. And while shonen MCs will be pretty advantaged in the plot their flaws are still flaws however small or inconsequential to the overall plot.
And the MC usually accepts his flaw or works to overcome it at some point. Whatever flaws Kirito might have had is resolved or ignored because other characters force their way in.
>dual wielding shields
I am laughing so hard at that thought.
All bitches with more than one page of dialogue want his dick.
Mary Sue doesn't any fucking thing to do with capabilities, it has to do with their role in a story.
Kirito invalidates the existance of half of the characters in Sword Art Online, even in the few instances where he's being temporally beaten, it's never treated as a fault of his. He's a "flawless" character and the world doesn't let you forget it because everything falls into place for him.
Luffy by comparison loses fights, has people who hate him that aren't treated as absolute monsters and constantly in the wrong, fails in some of the most important moments in his life with lasting consequences, and in universe he's not even the greatest pirate captain of his generation, there's at least one that has had a more significant impact on the universe and another beside him who's considered far more dangerous.
Plus anyways, people were bashing Jesus Yamato long before Kirito came around.
"Who is Miyamoto Musashi?", Alex.
He's from a manga you dumbshit fuck
Kirito at times loses to Asuna and could never beat Yuuki.
How is he a gary sue? Can't solo bosses, can't win every fight/duel, there are players who are higher level than him, etc. The one thing that Kirito has in favor of him that often lets him win is his his experience and how long he has immersed himself in VR. Someone who has spent insane amount of time being immersed in VR can move a lot better than someone who has spent less time being immersed in VR. It's basically like developing motor skills through time and effort.
It's broadened in use yes. It's now not only limited to selfinsert characters in fanfictions who outstrip characters in the canon setting at all of their fields and get admired and loved for it.
It now is used on characters who effectively act like a fanfic self insert and have qualities of a Mary Sue.
And you clearly don't know what makes a Mary Sue a Mary Sue. They are not "poorly disguised plot devices". This sentence alone shows that you have absolutely no idea what other people picture when they talk about Mary Sues. Actually is a Mary Sue was merely a plotdevice, it wouldn't be a Mary Sue at all. A Mary Sue completely draws the attention of the story and characters around only for people to express how awesome and cool she is. The story acts as a tool for the Mary Sue and not the otherway round, the Mary Sue is in the foreground, the story an afterthought in the background.
Maybe now you understand why people consider Kirito a Mary Sue
>Can't solo bosses
Except The Gleaming Eyes
Actually the Katana in the gif is forged with the exact same methods as traditional Katana, with all folding and original japanese steel
I never disagreed with the idea that Kirito was a Gary-Sue. If that's why you're irritated then I see. I just found SAO enjoyable regardless because idealisation is kind of the point of a light novel.
I still think of Goku as a Gary-Sue even within your more limited definition. The entire story of Dragonball Z and beyond (his status in DB pre-DBZ as a Gary-Sue is moer debatable in my opinion) ultimately centres around Goku. When Goku appears he tends to be the centre of attention and action, and has too many good qualities. My point about his "flaws" was that they were barely flaws in context for the show.
>it's because the world bends it's back over and introduces new elements to make him win
When? I mean, the "willpower" shit wasn't "new", seeing as Asuna did it multiple times before him.
>It's because all the girls fall in love with him when he doesn't demonstrate any particularly desirable traits
There are 4 girls that liked him. He's saved 3 of them, and has shown he is a decent and nice person. Define "desirable traits" for a 15 year-old girl.
>It's because the only people he's ever in opposition with invariably turn out to be bad guys even when they don't look that way at first.
That's.... That... huh...
There's cardinal, but that was mere disagreement... But there's all the Integrity Knights in the 4th arc, that oppose Kirito, for breaking the laws within Underworld. (Specifically that he killed someone).
I'm tired of refuting some of these claims, but these parts really bothers me.
>casually hacks into game from within the game
When is this? The Yui thing? Yui used her GM credentials on that console, to create an object deleter. Kirito used her credentials (which were still inputted into the console) to make her an item. Not hacking. (unless you're one of those people that post "u jus got hak'd" when your friend forgets to log off of Facebook on your computer)
>gets the special rewards of boss battles because he is of course the guy who does as much damage as the rest of the party together
The reward is given to whoever gets the last attack. Not whoever does the most damage.
Did you ignore the part where Kirito says he can predict where it'll appear? He looks at people's eyes and shit, to tell where it'll appear.
I can name several
>Literally every girl that appears after the second arc
Yeah, that was complete bullshit and I agree. Makes me wonder how the fight against Skull Reaper took several hours, when Gleam Eyes, theoretically ended in 16 hits.
Guy who dedicated his life to the craft
"Koto (traditional katana) is impossible to re-create as there is no instructions left, we can only try to come close)
Euroscum:- "We forged this using some defined methodology that uses the same style as koto so it must be the same thing"
I'll trust the guy who spends his entire life making katana not trying to prove a point of sword comparisons
>I still think of Goku as a Gary-Sue even within your more limited definition. The entire story of Dragonball Z and beyond (his status in DB pre-DBZ as a Gary-Sue is moer debatable in my opinion) ultimately centres around Goku. When Goku appears he tends to be the centre of attention and action, and has too many good qualities. My point about his "flaws" was that they were barely flaws in context for the show.
Really? I'd say that Goku is much closer to a sue in DB than in Z. In DB, it was always Goku that beat every antagonist, while in Z, even the Freeza kill was stolen from Goku. We only get to see him actually saving the world again for real in the end of the Buu Saga, and that was with tons of help.
I haven't seen Gundam SEED so I can't argue on that point.
I just don't agree with your point that every character needs an obvious weakness. Token weaknesses annoy me. I'd much prefer not having them.
Kirito also makes mistakes that have consequences. Not a lot, agreed, but they are there. For example the part where his guild mates die. That was pretty important.
Every 25 floors had a far more difficult superboss that consistently caused large death numbers. Gleameyes was the 74th floor, and presumably had far lower HP and DPS.
Alucard (even moreso with his Schrödinger shit).
And I can point out again that you have no idea what a Mary Sue is. Goku is the main character, you can't just call every main character a mary sue because eventually OF FUCKING COURSE the story will centre around them.
Just because Goku is the strongest fighter in the Z group (which is all Goku is about fighting. If he wasn't the best of his group THAT would be stupid), doesn't make him a Mary Sue either. He doesn't have the abilities of others. He can't create or fix a Dragon Radar to find the Dragonball. He isn't as rational as Kuririn who knows when a situation is too dangerous. He isn't as coolheaded as Piccolo who always knows exactly what to do and comes up with ideas. He can build space ships or fix them. He can't breathe in space. He can't transform into anything he wants. He is just a fighter, because that's what the story of Dragonball is about. About a guy who wants to become stronger and stronger and surpass his limits. He is usually never the stronger one when engaging the fight with someone and surpasses his opponent in the fight. Heck against Cell he even admits he can't defeat him and Gohan has to do it on his behalf. Also he's not present during the entire story.
His stupidity really isn't a real character flaw like you try to pass it like it's his only one. It's part of the charm of his character, like how he likes to eat a lot of food. But that doesn't mean his other flaws are non-existent, which you ignore.
Goku is pretty far from being Mary Sue and the fact that you think he is one shows how little knowledge you have about this topic
>Implying Kirito doesn't lose to Heathcliff
>Implying Heathcliff didn't have powers comparable to those of Kirito (ie: bending the rules)
I'll give you that. But from how it was written, that was a shounen trope of sorta exceeding the system because of emotions. His senses were heightened at the moment. But this also relates to AW's Incarnate System. It's possible for emotions/one's soul to go beyond the system. Kirito was not the only one who has done this since Asuna too has done it. Basically, it's an intend design by the creator. Said creator was happy that someone was finally able to achieve the power to surpass the system through will/emotion. He gave the egg to the very person who can become to understand that very intended design. The current arc that is Alicization elaborates on this a lot. Even AIs can do it.
And yet he killed 3 of the Army guys, who all seemed to be wearing heavy armor, so should have been able to take more DPS than Kirito.
Someone before argued that the Army guys were pretty low-levels, and all the front-line players were were heavily over-leveled.
But if that's the case, why didn't Kirito, Asuna, and Klein's party (a total of 8 people,) team up to fight it instead?'
Even if it had lower than usual health and DPS, Kirito shouldn't have been able to take out more than half of its health with a single sword-skill.
>I just don't agree with your point that every character needs an obvious weakness
That wasn't my point. My point was that shonen characters, even though they're conspired to be incredible, are still regularly written as flawed characters in some way or another. And the weakness is usually a part of their character and interferes with the life they want in some way. Either they have power they don't want or the opposite in simplistic shonen writing, but it's there.
>Kirito also makes mistakes that have consequences. Not a lot, agreed, but they are there. For example the part where his guild mates die. That was pretty important.
None of that was Kirito's mistake. It was a tragedy that he had front row seats for.
The guy in the video is also a professional sword smith
>If he wasn't the best of his group THAT would be stupid
The reason why his status as a Gary-Sue is more debatable earlier than DBZ is because of the context of Dragonball, which is loosely based on an ancient Chinese story. "Journey to the West". We can hardly argue a character from an ancient text is a "Gary-Sue". That would definitely be stretching the whole fanfiction-related beginning of the term. DBZ and DBGT were both stories added on to the original series.
And while you're right that Goku doesn't always beat every antagonist, only Goku gets the "I am the light of the universe" shtick. Only Goku is considered the hero beyond in-universe Earth's limited understanding of the universe. Only Goku defeats (and you're right, often not kills, but that makes him more innocent) the bad guys "because he has to" rather than out of revenge (Trunks), for his pride (Vegeta) or pure rage (Gohan). Only Goku is pure, and purity is a pretty central trope of a Gary-Sue.
I can't believe there're actually people defending Kirito.
Jesus, this is the worst I have ever seen of /a/.
He's the main character and defeated them all throughout the story at one point. It really would be stupid if he wasn't the strongest especially considering how he still wants to surpass his own limits after becoming the strongest
Every character needs to be vulnerable in some sort of way, otherwise the story becomes the story of an invincible man defeating all of his enemies without any trouble. The only time that ever works is when it's played for laughs, when you have a character written like that who we're supposed to take seriously the story is just boring.
Not that anon, but the Army guys' level are pretty low compared to those who fight at the frontline. They were exhausted and didn't have the best gear for the floor they were attempting to clear.
I don't think armor really helps at all in SAO. It's all about dps.
The cancer has killed /a/ since long ago. We're only remnants of the past.
>and purity is a pretty central trope of a Gary-Sue
You seriously have absolutely no idea what a Gary Stu is at all. Stop posting
Incarnate System works on how Alicization's system runs. Kirito and co. using any sort of super willpower to break the rules without a STL type machine is just plain breaking the rules.
>it gives you two weapons to attack with
wasnt it in vol 7 explain why he "lose more often" now was cause there isnt the whole you lose, you die. i.e lack of motivation
I dont think that really count since he didnt cause the event to occur, also I dont remember more anymore event that where cause by him afterward if you exclude the newest arc since I havent read that yet.
I didn't dispute that he was, but the Japanese Sword Smith is notoriously xenophobic about handing down the craft so if the actual Japanese born Smith says: "No one can make koto but a small group of us are trying to come close"
while the Euro-Smith says "Eh-yup, this is koto."
Guess who I'm going to listen to?
Bottom line: Until someone takes one of the hundred thousand dollar recovered koto from the tokyo museum and/or a private collection and smashes it against another sword we really have no clue how durable it is (and even then we still don't know how a freshly smithed koto fares with age so we will never know)
This little shit is rancid
>For example the part where his guild mates die. That was pretty important.
Yeah such terrible consequences. Kirito was sad for like a whole episode. And instead of inspiring him to be a better person and not a lying sack of shit who hides his identity from people, he just goes back to how he was before with absolutely no repercussions at all, in fact everything turns out better because of it.
It's almost as if their lives were meaningless except to give him angsting material.
>It really would be stupid if he wasn't the strongest especially considering how he still wants to surpass his own limits after becoming the strongest
>implying that doesn't apply to Vegeta as well
>implying being the main character means you should be the strongest in your group
>"because he has to"
It's not because he has to though, it's because he enjoys fighting. In both the Cell and Buu Saga he ends up doing things that put the world in danger in order to get better battles (Refusing to fuse against Kid Buu, stopping his battle against Cell and giving the senzu bean to him rather than taking it in order to see where Gohan's power could get). That's what Vegeta realizes at the end of DBZ, Goku wasn't fighting for others, or to become stronger, but fighting for his own love of fighting and that's why he couldn't reach him.
Saying "You have no idea" is a nice troll post I guess, but without context you're just pointing a finger.
Silly, anon. Prototype/beta version will always have less restrictions and be better. It's a rule in fiction.
It's more that he doesn't play the game seriously as much as he used to. But in fun, good duels, he does give it his all like against Yuuki.
What I meant by "because he has to" is that Goku doesn't enjoy killing. He enjoys fighting, but every time he has to kill, he has a very different, less content attitude to it.
Armor does help. It's not a cosmetic thing.
Kirito and Asuna wear very light "armor" because they're more speed types, and they'd be slowed down.
That being said, nothing you said explains why Asuna and Klein were nearly powerless against it.
That's probably why it's easier to do, but characters still do it before hand. I mean, they all have a fucking 6th sense, and Asuna has basically broken the game twice.
>And instead of inspiring him to be a better person and not a lying sack of shit who hides his identity from people, he just goes back to how he was before
Not that anon, but did you even watch the show?
Vegeta is the guy who thinks he should be stronger because he's of noble blood and elite rank. Only later he learned to adapt Goku's ways and train hard to try to surpass him. But even then Vegeta's goal was always to beat Goku, while Goku was always trying to surpass himself that's why Vegeta was always one step behind Goku.
In what world is a character a Mary Sue because He/she is pure and innocent? Because that's just retarded as fuck. Might as well call every second character in existance a Mary Sue
Yeah, I did. Kirito didn't change at all. He uses that horrible experience as justification to not join a guild even though the only problem was him being dishonest about his level. And then he ends up joining a guild anyway later for completely unrelated reasons. Their deaths had zero impact on him in the long run, they only serve as fodder for his angst.
Maybe if you only consume trashy media you would be able to say that.
Real high literature and high art doesn't make characters pure, except religious or otherworldly characters. Purity is unrealistic as a human trait beyond the age of "baby" or "child".
He's constantly manipulated
Going by the detailed description of how it works with STL, there's no way they should be able to use their willpower to break the rules.
Basically, the world around them is generated by their soul/willpower/imagination, which is why they can overwrite things with incarnation.
With older tech, the world is generated normally.
Now you're backpedalling pretty hard. You have now absolutely no arguments left and now criticize the concept of an innocent character per se. Which again has absolutely fuck all to do with a Mary Sue.
And even then, the only issue with his dishonesty was that he wouldn't have gotten close to any of them and so wouldn't have felt such loss when they died. The only 'consequence' of his lie was that he survived when everyone else did not.
Nobody posted Kazuma yet.
/lit/fag here, you're more pretentious than us.
So making him extermely overprotective of people around him, and being the reason for his avoidance of guilds, means nothing happened?
I mean, the "over-protectiveness" appears multiple times. Like, it happens to even effect him in the second arc and onward.
He clearly didn't...
Alicization doesn't explain why they can overwrite things. Kirito gives a hypothesis about flowers being able to bloom in different regions, but that's as far as it goes.
Nothing says that this is inherent to the STL.
>Real high literature and high art
You guys have absolutely no idea of what a Mary-Sue is.
>Which again has absolutely fuck all to do with a Mary Sue.
A pure character is a character without a spiritual flaw. He doesn't hate, lust, or rage like a normal person.
I guess that comes down to preference, then. I'd rather have a Kirito than a Naruto/Natsu that has absolutely no development in terms of character.
Sort of. He could've prevented it if he told them he had a higher level so they would've trusted him more.
I don't agree as long as it isn't unrealistic. And in SAO everything was reasonably well explained.
No shit, that was their purpose on a show. That's usually how it works.
Both of them.
I have known one person irl who actually uses gary-stu. He was a neckbeard brony who wrote fanfiction. Is that really the company you want to be in?
Literally nothing changed in his behavior. He was a loner who helped people before and he was a loner who helped people after.
>moving the goal posts
Children are pure characters too. Doesn't make them Mary Sues
>So making him extermely overprotective of people around him, and being the reason for his avoidance of guilds, means nothing happened?
None of these were lessons he learned from the incident. Kirito was always someone who was afraid of getting close to others because he didn't want to feel the pain of their loss or scorn. He always avoided guilds and played solo since before SAO.
All the incident taught him was that he was right.
>No shit, that was their purpose on a show. That's usually how it works.
My point is that they didn't have any lasting impact on him.
You wish buddy. I'm just amused at how closed-minded you are. I'm not the only person in this thread who has a different conception than you of what a Gary-Sue is. Incorruptible pure pureness is a definite, constant part of what makes a Gary-Sue.
"Purity Sue" http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
"a Mary Sue is an idealized character representing the author" from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
"A female fanfiction character who is so perfect as to be annoying." http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mary-Sue
"an original character that is often overly idealized..." (Purity is an ideal trait.)
You just seem to take my points individually rather than as a whole, as though I was saying you ONLY need purity to become instantly a Gary-Sue. That was never my argument.
Your argument so far as consisted of "you are wrong". You have failed to express WHY I would be wrong here.
that bring a whole new problem of kirito lying to them in the first place or the guild inviting him.
but still there was much situation where he make a bad decision.
kaze no stigma
It's an aspect. The only goalpost that was moved when you, or some other fool, decided that claiming purity is another aspect of a mary/gary stu meant we were claiming purity is the only or sole aspect.
A pure soul is someone who is spiritually perfect.
>So making him extermely overprotective of people around him
Which differed from how he was before, how exactly? He already had an aversion to guilds at the start and already went out of his way to help people and protect them. This experience just confirmed all his worst fears and he went back to being an edgy loner.
>I guess that comes down to preference, then. I'd rather have a Kirito than a Naruto/Natsu that has absolutely no development in terms of character.
But then you're just making a false comparison. Just because you don't want a Kirito doesn't mean you want a Naruto instead.
>siting TVtropes as an authority
>know your meme
Aha, I knew that'd bring snobbiness out. But can you really deny how a term is popularly used? Language definitions work based on use. Argue with it all you want.
>but still there was much situation where he make a bad decision.
None of which have any real consequences.
You do realize that a purity sue is something completely different?
Read the fucking article yourself http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PuritySue
>a Mary Sue is an idealized character representing the author
How the fuck can you quote this yourself and not realize how you're wrong? Goku is not a self insert.
>A female fanfiction character who is so perfect as to be annoying.
Which again doesn't apply to Goku and >urbandictionary
>CTRL+F "purity" - 0 results
Stop trying, it's just embarrassing at this point. You gave it up the minute you sited TV Tropes like it has any kind of authority on anything.
yeah but he's a fag
Wow you managed to completely invalidate and contradict yourself in a single post. Good job.
The fact that you quote fucking urbandictionary and knowyourmeme also suggest that you literally just googled what Mary Sue means without even checking how believable the source will make you look
Big time. Even if I enjoy the show, I cannot deny it.
Apparently you don't know what the word "OR" means in a definition.
After realising this, I realise it is pointless to debate with you.
I could've linked anything, I went to Google and listed the first few things that came up. It's not relevant what I linked. It's relevant how popular that conception of the definition is. And it is popular. Point proven. Get over yourself.
>walls o' text
>that one guy who has an addiction to defending SAO
S'up, bro. Reminder for you to take it easy.
>Loner who helped people Before
What? This was the third episode.
First Episode he abandoned a newb.
I don't see how he was a "loner who helped people," before this.
He didn't get close to others because of his "beater status" (that he imposed on himself, to be a scapegoat. See:Progressive)
And before SAO, he still partied a lot with people. Just rarely joined many guilds.
He literally starts the game with the single-minded intention to "survive". Not help anyone. He avoided guilds at the beginning because he was socially awkward, and then because of his "Beater" status.
>I went to Google and listed the first few things that came up.
At this point you must be trolling or are genuinely that fucking stupid
>It's relevant how popular that conception of the definition is
It's a wiki article on a site that prides itself on having no citations and being formed by personal opinions of its authors. They brag about this on their home page. Congrats, you sited what amounts to a collectively written blog post.
But he's popularly despised as a lolicon black heart chessmaster by everyone other than a handful of people who know him.
What "OR"? You linked to a bunch of memesites all pretty much contradicting everything you claimed.
>First Episode he abandoned a newb.
He taught the guy how to fight and told him to come with him. Klein turned him down and told him to go on ahead. That's not abandonment in the least.
>He didn't get close to others because of his "beater status"
Which was like two months after the start of the death game, and he spent all his time as a solo player who had no one to party with until he got Asuna for the 1st dungeon boss.
Daily reminder that Kawahara already rewrote SAO at least 3 times now. And it's still shit
I'd disagree, he's godly powerful but merely a tool for Integra, it's somewhere up there where gary stu =/= power. I take it more as fan-fic level of competence, chemistry with characters and luck of 7 leprechauns stitched together
>Incorruptible pure pureness is a definite, constant part of what makes a Gary-Sue.
>links to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
>Sympathetic Sue is a character full of angst. This is a type of Mary Sue who wants your sympathy. Normally an emotional female character, Sympathy Sue probably had abusive parents, had a hard time growing up on the streets, saw her parents killed or is the last of her species. She cries a lot and might resort to self-harm.
Good job proving how you make shit up.
I forget: Does he intentionally stay alone in Aria before he turns himself into a pariah? He almost got MPK'd by Cobol on the first day, so I'd understand a bit if he avoided parties for a bit after that.
I haven't watched Log Horizon so I don't know if he's actually a Mary Sue, but you might want to rethink this:
>Other than a handful of people who know him.
If you mean that people hate him until they know who he really is, then he's probably a Mary Sue after-all. If people hate him for legitimate reasons after getting know him and they aren't EEEEEEVIIIIIIIIL, then he's probably in the clear.
Yeah, I should probably stop repeating myself on some things.
He offered to help him, and him alone. When Klein mentioned his friends, he was already thinking of backing out. Klein basically just gave him the easy way out, without making Kirito feel AS guilty for leaving them behind.
Was one month. And he did try to party with someone. They tried to have him killed for a rare item.
Heathcliff couldn't lose because he was invincible and the admin for the game. Kirito has rules bend to look cool and plot devices
Alucard isn't a Gary Stu because he isn't written as a character. He's a force of nature that every other character has to deal with in their own way. He's a plot device.
True, I suppose. I'll try again:
For me a character doesn't need physical weaknesses as long as he has good character development.
But they did. When he tells Asuna about them that gets pretty clear.
Kirito a shit.
Look at his stance. It is full of openings.
How did these kids survive with shit techniques.
>When he tells Asuna about them that gets pretty clear.
Pretty clear that he remembered them? Yeah. But it didn't change him at all. Nothing about his behavior changed.
Naruto's character development arc is better.
Kirito goes through a lot but very few things up to the end of Fairy Arc at least impact him meaningfully in a way that develops his character, he's pretty fucking static.
Naruto is a remarkably more mature now than he was at the start of his series, and he did it gradually instead of getting introduced to cheap dramas. Most of his best characterization had nothing to do with the people he lost, but with the people that he gained.
But you don't know how his behavior was like before hand. All you know was that he was socially awkward, and tried to help a couple people.
However, after the incident, he becomes over protective, and tries to take all the burden on himself. (overprotective is not the same as "helpful")
I mean, it's so serious, that in the second arc, where death is no longer a consequence, he goes all PTSD, and insists he won't let a teammate die.
The people who know who he really is might not hate him, but they also don't love him. Maybe about five close friends or fans, but the vast majority of people who know Shiroe better treat him as a big, goofy nerd and not their personal lord and savior. They mess with him a lot.
He's not really loved except by his love interests and best friends, and not really hated because he doesn't stand out. He just doesn't curry a good reputation. He's kind of normal rather than a mary sue.
>He offered to help him, and him alone.
Yeah he's so selfish for helping the only person he made friends with. Such a loner.
>When Klein mentioned his friends, he was already thinking of backing out
Whoa cool it on the mind reading.
> Klein basically just gave him the easy way out, without making Kirito feel AS guilty for leaving them behind.
Klein had known Kirito for like an hour, if that. He'd probably known his buddies for years. That's not even a hard choice for him about who he's going to stay with.
ITT : I don't like this character and you should too.
>Well, that's the definition everyone in 4chan uses
Just shows how dumb /a/ can be most of the time eh?
Four times in a 273 episode series? Not that often. Shut the fuck up, you have no idea what you are talking about.
>But you don't know how his behavior was like before hand. All you know was that he was socially awkward, and tried to help a couple people.
And afterward he was socially awkward and tried to help a couple people. Wow. What a difference.
>However, after the incident, he becomes over protective
Horseshit. He does literally nothing differently.
>I mean, it's so serious, that in the second arc, where death is no longer a consequence, he goes all PTSD
Being a retard is not the same thing as PTSD.
This thread fucking sucks and everyone in it should feel ashamed for taking part in it.
You can't have good character development if there's nothing to develop. Which is exactly what happened in SAO.
They implied that he also had good grades before he got stuck in SAO. He also build his first computer from scrap parts he found.
Fear that equates to admiration and respect means he's thought well off. And he keeps getting more, well, perfect.
Sue is sue, there's nothing wrong in enjoying a sue. I don't know why some people make such a big deal over sue. SAO's trolls and haters have brainwashed /a/ so much into believing sues can't be liked and enjoyable. Remember when /a/ never bothered to label characters as gary sue before SAO shitstorm happened? No, me neither.
>He also build his first computer from scrap parts he found.
Please let this be a joke.
>However, after the incident, he becomes over protective, and tries to take all the burden on himself
So the exact same thing he did when he felt awful for having to leave Klein behind, when the raid leader for the first boss died in his arms and when he donned his 'beater' persona for the first time?
U a shit
You know, I guess I kind of forgot about SAO because the ass-burgers was unbearable. I am actually surprised by how many people think Kirito is a good character. He's so poorly written of a character that I couldn't stand to sit through any more SAO after reading the first few.
At least Izayoi generally had the decency to not bother pretending that struggles were involved.
I can see I don't agree fully, I count mary su's as ones with asspulls. Shiroe just is a typical gambit character, but god dam does he try his hardest be one.
I know Sue can be enjoyable
I love reading trinity seven and loved watching KnS.
But SAO does not have a interesting sue
>Fear that equates to admiration and respect means he's thought well off. And he keeps getting more, well, perfect.
Except he isn't, doesn't, and the exact opposite happens over time.
There's an entrenched enclave of SAOfags on /a/, believe it or not. They will defend this tripe tooth and nail against every insult and refuse to admit it's bad. The only thing you can do is ignore the threads and not engage with them.
>Whoa cool it on the mind reading.
We literally got to hear Kirito's inner thoughts on the matter.
You think so poorly of us. ;_;
Come on, now. We're for the most part pretty reasonable and laugh at SAO's/Kirito's ridiculousness with the rest of you. The difference is that you guys get mad, while we get glad.
>Whoa cool it on the mind reading.
The book was 1st person. It showed his thoughts. Yes, I'm a mind reader.
Other than all the times where he's completely adamant about doing 100% of the fighting, and instructing everyone else to only support him?
>died in his arms
But yes, more or less. He was taking burdens on himself, but those were more-or-less necessary, for the situation.
Wow, so did I.
>implying putting together computer parts is anything special.
Pretty sure that was just to show he was computer-savvy.
How is he a gary stu at all? Nothing is handed to him, all his gains are the result of his own efforts and planning. People who meet him don't automatically love him or even like him. The people who do are those he already built a relationship with prior to the start of the series, or look up to him for his knowledge and experience as a veteran player.
>pretending that struggles were involved.
I'm not following here since SAO was a life and death game where people are trapped in a vrmmo. Boss fights are serious business and people can die.
I agree with >>101982176. It seems like the entire character development somehow went over your head.
Kirito makes a full 180 from loner running away to leader taking responsibility.
Yes, Naruto gets more mature, but mostly he gets less silly. During the entire story he never faces a moral conflict that he doesn't instantly resolves. He never really has doubts, there's never a point where he's close to giving up or even making compromises on his morals.
Afraid I have to go to sleep now, being a yuropoor and all.
Gee, too bad this doesn't fly in a thread labeled "ITT: The biggest Gary-Sues in any anime"
Remember that SAO was written by A FUCKING TEENAGER and that the MC is almost guaranteed to be an actual legitimate Gary Stu rather than half-assing an argument just to eloquently let everyone know you don't like them, by this I mean shut the fuck up when there's no way you possibly defend Kirito as anything but with every wonderful thing we aleady know he can do.
Oh, and if you think a trait such as purity automatically creates a sue you need to kill yourself before you do any more damage to the gene pool.
>Fear that equates to admiration and respect means he's thought well off
You act like he's the only one that people fear or respect. There's a lot of famous players and lately in the show they've been getting more spotlight than Shiroe. Crusty in particular is probably more famous than Shiroe at this point: leader of the Council's strongest military guild, general of the armies, husbando to the NPC princess, representative of the Council to the NPC faction. And he's a strong as fuck front line fighter to boot.
Shiroe was instrumental in setting up a lot of this stuff because that's how he operates. He moves pieces into position and coordinates at a distance. He can't get anywhere without powerful allies willing to do what he says. Shiroe's reputation is only really well known among older players, and even then it just makes them wary of him. The only ones who truly admire him are Akatsuki and a few low level players he helped out. The influence he currently wields is a result of trickery and making use of his connections with various guilds. He didn't intimidate or overawe people into following him, he tricked them into giving him money and then grabbed them by the balls to make them cooperate.
Shinji has a lot of shit to overcome, has personal issues and flaws (big ones retard).
Simon has to choose between his wife and the universe, despite knowing both will die in the long run, still chooses the universe.
Luke Skywalker struggles with becoming a Sith, fights his father to the death, and his newly found sister being boned by some punk.
Frodo almost gets corrupted by the embodiment of evil.
Even Harry Potter (the literal chosen kid self insert faggot) isn't as gary-stu as kirito.
I was merely making a side-comment about how the anime changed up the way that scene was. It wasn't part of my argument.
I don't give the slightest tamest fuck, I absolutely despise ignorance and I'll debate for months on end just to crush and shatter it if for nothing else my own validation.
Thanks for the info.
I'm still not sure why people are still saying this though.
The author wrote SAO in 2002, when he should have been about 28.
Of course, SAO was basically the first story he ever wrote, which was inspired by a number of Light Novels, and American movies/novels.
Oh I certainly don't think most of you are. I'm just surprised by the volume of folks that do. Again, I've rarely been as uncomfortable during an anime/LN as when I realized that the author seemed to think that rescuing someone would automatically make them love you unconditionally. That's not how that works and I think that it's a worse message than oversexualization by far.
>How is he a gary stu at all? Nothing is handed to him, all his gains are the result of his own grinding and experience. People who meet him don't automatically love him or even like him, he's even looked down upon as a Beater by most. The people who do though are those he already built a relationship with at the beginning of the series or have come to know him through an encounter that resulted in his help or have spend time with him to see him as a person and not as a player. He's seek out mainly just for his knowledge and experience as a veteran player.
I assume it cause he had this idea a while or some shit story like that
hey view you guy the same as IS-fags if not worse. Just cause IS has less bullshit that SAO
Too bad Kirito's supposed flaws and asocial behavior only results in him getting the most beautiful idol girlfriend, love confessions or infatuations from a popular loli mascot player and others, special skills and abilities no one else has, glitches that transfer all his powers to a new game, and admin powers.
You might have had an actual argument otherwise.
I dunno, man. Remember, this is LNs, where HE WAS NICE TO ME ONCE TEN YEARS AGO is justification enough for a girl to like someone.
This is hardly high literature we're dealing with here.
At least IS had some humor elements. Still not liking how the girls are super shallow 95% of the time, but it's something.
>Nothing is handed to him
Dual wielding, admin powers, etc.
Four times in 273 episodes. Not a lot. Learn shit about the show before you start spouting rnadom shit with no context.
You just said the only 2 things handed to him. (Granted, that's all he needed for the situations they were given to him in)
Those two things are certain far and away from 'nothing'
He also gets his stats and items transferred into ALO because reasons.
>20-something programmer who's been playing the same game for most of a decade
>many connections to other veteran players
>several players of equal caliber to himself
>is generally respected, but not well liked
>plays a dependent class that is useless in solo play
>known as a strategist with a talent for underhanded scheming
>relies on powerful allies to accomplish things
>reserved personality, avoided guilds because he grew tired of being pestered by people who just wanted to make use of him
>main goals are unification of players and to bring law and order to the world they inhabit
>teenager who played SAO in beta for a couple months before it went live
>virtually no connections at all to any other beta-testers or players at the start of the game
>no players equal to him in skill, only person who can beat him has admin powers
>called a cheater, respected by a few, mostly disliked
>uses dual wielding skill unique to him which gives him super DPS
>Famed solo player who refuses to join guilds, known for fighting bosses and doing dungeons solo
>reserved personality, avoided guilds because he's "awkward"
>main goals are to fuck Asuna and get out of SAO (maybe)
Getting a harem doesn't equal sue. Those girls didn't like him instantly. He spend time with him and they bonded. That's normal. Being a loner who's afraid to group up doesn't mean he can't make friends. You're also forgetting how he also made MALE friends.
>special skills and abilities
1 and that's his dual blade. There are 10 unique skills in the game. He got one of them for merely having the fastest reaction time. Healthcliff also got one for being the most high level character.
>glitches that transfer all his powers to a new game
You mean just his STATS. That's beyond his control. He used his old nervegear and data that was stored in it to a game that used and older engine. It glitched out but his stats transferred over.
>and admin powers.
Healthcliff told him how to access it to beat the fake king. Kirito didn't just received it or anything. And that was a one time thing.
Seriously, you guys are trying so hard.
Eh, it's more-or-less implied that it's because the two games shared a database or some shit. (Also, Sugou and his programmers seem to be shit tier...)
After everything goes down, everyone else from SAO was able to transfer their stats in too.
>no players equal to him in skill, only person who can beat him has admin powers
And his waifu... and Aids-chan. And supposedly Eugeo (in his opinion)
>Famed solo player who refuses to join guilds, known for fighting bosses and doing dungeons solo
Only solo'd one boss (but it was enough to make him famous, so yeah...)
>And his waifu... and Aids-chan. And supposedly Eugeo
Yet only he got the super special skill. And only he got to challenge the final boss of SAO. Etc.
>And his waifu... and Aids-chan. And supposedly Eugeo (in his opinion)
Also I forgot to mention some more of the cast of Alicization. Alice, Bercouli, supposidly some of the other Knights too, if he didn't have help from Eugeo.
>Getting a harem doesn't equal sue
Never said that. I said his flaws aren't really flaws, they just made him super attractive to super beautiful and popular girls.
And you didn't explain anything away. You just told us again how he had powers and abilities handed to him out of convenience, accident, or luck. And each one was a massive power boost that gave him the power to solo dungeons and even a powerful boss that kicked the asses of a few other players who were just as high leveled as him, gave him the power to crush the strongest player in a completely new game on like the third day after making his character, and then completely destroy an actual admin and game master.
I think the comment meant that how some of his negative traits doesnt have a negative effect even worse provide a positive effect, which is kinda of BS
>There are 10 unique skills in the game
Kirito got them for being fast
Healthcliff for being GM
we have no info on anyone else so it might as well be 2 unique skills
All of Naruto's development has been I WANNA BE HOKAGE -> I WANNA FUCK/GET SASUKE BACK -> I STILL WANNA GET SOME SAUCEKE -> SHIT MY VILLAGE IS NUKED MUST FIGHT-> NOW I'M NINJA JESUS
That's not fucking subtle, dipshit.
>Eh, it's more-or-less implied that it's because the two games shared a database or some shit. (Also, Sugou and his programmers seem to be shit tier...)
It was a glitch that happened because he happened to be wearing his old NerveGear. It was literally an accident that gave him instant super powers for the sake of plot. I don't see how that isn't a case of being handed something.
Everyone else transferring their stats was something that came later after he rebuilt ALO (with SAO hovering above).
So if Dual Swords goes to the person with the fastest reaction time, and if Kirito had trouble keeping up with Asuna's attacks, why didn't she get Dual Swords, instead?
Just frodo'ing for fun.
jesus yamato at least has plot relevance. he is the ultimate coordinator genetically modified to be the best and yet he couldn't get past his lust for pussy and ended being manipulated by fllay.
Not that guy, but...
ALO's system didn't depend on levels and stats, as much as it did in SAO.
His stat transfer basically did nothing more, than let him know that the two games were connected.
In ALO, the damage done by a weapon is more reliant on the speed of the strike, and the area it hits, than anything else.
Hence, he could OHKill those 2 players at the beginning, and why he could fight against Eugene pretty well.
Bull. This was never said. Also, regardless, no MMO games save player data locally. Why the hell would SAO save your stats onto your nervegear?
Because sexism? (Kayaba probably doesn't wanna be beaten by a girl, after all)
Don't both Light and Lelouch get fucked over in their plans several times, lose battles, and then die at the end?
Hah. Dying was literally part of his plan. Everything fucking goes his way.
He wanted a Gary Stu, not a Mary Sue to beat him.
Including the end of Season 1?
>Why the hell would SAO save your stats onto your nervegear?
Because SAO is a bad game with bad design for plot convenience.
And for what it's worth, it was said that it was basically a bug from the two games running on the same engine. What you SHOULD be exasperated about, though, is how apparently Kirito was the first one to find out about this bug. This was later explained in Extra Edition (I think it was Extra Edition, at least) that he got to keep his microwave helmet as a perk of helping out the government in its investigations into SAO afterwards. Still, that explanation came YEARS after the fact. Almost a literal decade.
I stopped watching after it went all fairy shit and his sister wanted his D
Araragi, Touma, Izayaioaii or whatever, Shirou, etc.
While he's a harem master and all, doesn't he constantly fail at his classes and is a poorfag?
He used to be pretty bad, but now he just happens to be a new take on an old old Japanese trope
He's a teenager who can somehow make enough money to live on his own, and feed a bottomless English pit of a Nun.
>is the cannon main character of the series
that right there invalidates him as a gary stu, fyi.
he's still a shit character, but cannot, by definition, be a gary stu.
So SAO saved player Data onto your device?
That's... You can't even defend that from a technical stand-point.
I mean, if everyone who developed the game knew that SAO would be a death-game, sure, would make sense.
Otherwise, it means that Kayaba completely changed how the save-system for SAO worked, at the last second.
I mean, I can probably rationalize this, but Kawahara probably hasn't even realized how bullshit that is, so there is no other reason than "It is because it is,"
80% of that is from after the Anime. And the last 4 lines are from the Web Novel, which haven't happened (and might not) in the Light Novel.
Forgot to attach the pic to this one, sorry (same poster)
>Never said that
You implied it and want to twist it. He's attractive and has put effort and time to have girls he encountered/help come to like him. What's wrong with that?
>flaws aren't really flaws
What "flaws" exactly? He's just a loner who isn't comfortable grouping/joining a guild for fear of getting people close to him killed if he made a mistake. But he's forced to join one again later but even so, he doesn't group well and only duo with Asuna who he's comfortable with. Does that mean he can't make friends or have girls like him if he
>handed to him out of convenience
Circumstances != handed to him out of convenience. He's not the only one, stop acting like he's the only one.
Anyone can solo a dungeon that's much lower than your level. Means nothing.
>even a powerful boss
One time with the use of DW, shounen emotion exceeding the system, and luck on his side. it nearly killed him and it isn't something he'd try again, especially not with boss past 74 where they become abnormally stronger and stronger.
> power to crush the strongest player in a completely new game
Stop repeating arguments that got addressed. His stats transferred over. Besides, he cheated. Period. He even admits that himself. But he doesn't care and the point of even playing ALO was to save Asuna.
>ompletely destroy an actual admin and game master.
Kirito didn't do that, Healthcliff did. Stop making up bullshit.
>Healthcliff for being GM
No, it's for being the strongest player.
>he's still a shit character, but cannot, by definition, be a gary stu.
This. He's just not interesting, but gary stu/mary sue should be limited to fandom character self-inserts.
nothing. kinda surprised
Funny thing that I don't consider he much of a Gary Stu.
Maybe it's because he serves more as a plot device to PLOT than anything else.
Also the fact that most of the time he doesn't really have a solution himself and has to rely on the other girls in other to save another.
Everything sort of turned into "How much of a Gary Stu is Kirito?"
Yep, SAO's player data is saved clientside. That's how Kirito's stats "transferred" over, and that's how he was able to save Yui who was by that time an item in his inventory. In ALO, she was lucky enough that her data wasn't read as corrupted by the ALO game engine.
>saving MMO player data clientside
toppest of lels
He's had way too hard a life
Wut? How do you figure?
Also, fyi: "canon" refers to something genuine to a story. "cannon" refers to a weapon that launches projectiles.
I guess it wasn't a Gary Stu list, more like a list of male characters everyone loves for no reason and I don't see why.
>Anyone can solo a dungeon that's much lower than your level. Means nothing.
He was soloing dungeons for his level
When was this?
Well, in the case of Bake, it's because it is pretty much a harem animu. I don't think there is a harem animu were the girls don't potentially love the MC.
I doubt we'll get an explanation to this,
The only logical reason behind this would be that Kayaba changed this at the last second, so that people with access to the server couldn't alter the player-files.
But that doesn't explain why it's still in ALO, if ALO used an older version of SAO's source.
There needs to be more harems where the girls hate the MC. As in, genuinely dislike. Then, he has to earn their love.
Or something like that.
Kirito was level 96 by the end. Asuna was level 94. It was stated that the norm was for people to be 10 levels above the floor they were fighting on for safety purposes. Even for SAO's standard of overleveling, they were overleveled.
tl;dr: You're wrong.
Interestingly he's not a gray stu at all...For me, my dislike of him is two part...his sorta pandering/being a projection of an idealized Otaku...and his emo-esque haircut (that last one is just personal)...otherwise I quite enjoy his interactions and expressions
> It was stated that the norm was for people to be 10 levels above the floor they were fighting on for safety purposes.
when did it say that
One of my favorite ideas from one of /a/'s "Come up with your own anime" threads is a standard harem anime with all your stupid harem archetypes - the childhood friend, the tsundere, the flat genki girl, the tomboy, the dandere, etc. The only generic character missing to fill this generic cast is the generic MC. The show would be about the harem of girls trying to find the perfectly bland guy to pin their affections on, complete with the "childhood friend" trying to convince the "MC" that they knew each other as kids.
If it's anywhere, it'd probably be in the adaptation of the volume 2 materials. Not in a place to search through episodes right now.
Certainly, it's established in the LN.
That wasn't a dungeon, that was the current floor of the frontline and it was open field.
Biggest Gary Stu in anime
Toema is not a gary sue, but he's a pretty bad character. Lame speeches that somehow manage to work, op ability in-series, gets all bitches, has the "bookdumb but fighting sawy" cliché, meh.
Progressive Volume 1
>However for SAO, even the current top class group was barely Level 10—
That was the first floor. It doesn't flat out confirm it, however, it was also explicitly stated in one of the "Sword Art Offline" special episodes.
This is an open field? Also, it leads right to the boss room
wasnt the last boss in SAO for GM was around lv 79 or something like that
If you're going to cite from the novel, give decent citations.
>Her level was forty-four right now. If SAO were a normal RPG, the floor of the dungeon would be the suited difficulty for a player with the same level. But since it became a crazy death-game, the safe area would be about ten levels below the player's.
- The Black Swordsman story from volume 2
Anon was wrong.
>A chill breeze blew into the shadowed dungeon and the flame of the torch shook. The wet floor softly reflected the flickering torch-light.
- volume 1
>- The Black Swordsman story from volume 2
I skimmed over Volume 2, personally, so I've mostly forgotten lines like that.
Though, in hind-sight, searching Volume 2 would have been a good idea, considering she wouldn't go to that floor because her level was close to the floor number.
Characters need flaws to be considered good characters. That's why Gary Stus like Kirito suck ass.
but he couldn't protect his friends!
That's not a flaw though. That's an incident used to incite character development (I pointed this out already, how it made him overprotective and shit, but i'm not going to go into detail again)
>I pointed this out already, how it made him overprotective and shit
But it didn't
So did everyone just grind up 10 levels before advancing? If this was the case, why did people like Asuna's guild have to actually work together to beat bosses? 10 levels above is the safe area, but I don't think everyone strictly followed this.
You could see this in ALO when he didn't want Leafa to die even though it was just a game and didn't have any negative impact except loss of experience.
>So did everyone just grind up 10 levels before advancing?
>why did people like Asuna's guild have to actually work together to beat bosses?
What do you mean? Fighting together is a lot safer because RNG-sama is a cruel goddess unless you're the MC of a Japanese light novel.
But we see him being overprotective multiple times...
Before this, the only time we see him really being helpful was with Klein.
He helps Asuna a bit, but really, that was only because he partied with her.
And he takes on the burden of being a "Beater", (not even alone, seeing as he basically groups all "good beta testers" together) to protect Argo.
He doesn't show himself being "Over Protective" until after Sachi.
I mean like they strategized and prepared for the boss beforehand.
Like, if you were 10 levels above the boss, you could just run into it without much strategy and there wouldn't be much danger since you were so overlevelled right
They're mentioned to almost always send a scout wave to fight the boss and retreat, then analyze the tactics and do it for real.
The 74 and 75th floor was an exception to the norm, and they hadn't developed that strategy for the earliest floors.
What's the difference between dungeon and open-field in SAO? Neither seem to have bosses.
The dungeons usually have bosses, but they're a lot like labyrinths, so you can't just go in a straight line to fight the boss.
Actually, I think there were a number of small dungeons on each floor. Don't think there's anything called an "open field".
In the first floor boss fight:
>Before the battle began, I had secretly decided. Instead of protecting myself, I would protect the rapier user <<Asuna>>'s life with everything I had.
It's something that was always part of Kirito's character. He even talks about how a solo player like him should abandon the battle and the other players as soon as Diabel got KO'd, but didn't want to.
Maybe it's because AC gives every student money as compendation for the esper experiments they participate in, even level 0s, thats how he managed to live without a job. When index came in all he did was give her a large share of his food. She was never satisfied, and he had to go hungry. They were having cheap shit all the time yet still managed to scrape by thanks to touma knowing how to manage his finances. Seriously the guy sleeps in a bathtub, no one wants to be him
That's a load of shit, bro.
Dungeons have the floor boss at the end guarding the gate to the next floor.
There's also a field boss on each floor that sorta guards a checkpoint that keeps you from getting to half the floor.
There's certain restrictions like how you can't send messages to people in dungeons, nor can you find them on a map.