What does /a/ think about DBZ?
DB was good though.
Some people on /a/ will never admit it, but a lot of us have thick nostalgia goggles for DBZ and once in a while we get some quality discussion here.
I know DBZ is the type of anime, anime-autists hate, but I love it. Yes it's probably caused at least partly by nostalgia, but I still love it.
The only thing I could say that's possibly wrong with it is some of the
>let's just stand here and say haaaah, haaaah all episode
apart from that, it's pretty fucking great. Most of the "filler" (stuff that wasn't in the manga) actually improves the story a lot imo.
The manga is alright but DBZ the anime has some of the worst pacing on par with Bleach or Gantz
The manga has little to no character development thought.
The only good thing about it is it spawned a funny-ass abridged series
>not the best anime that ever was and ever will be
DB and Dbz are two of my favorite animes, but its mostly due to nostalgia.
Even with nostalgia goggles most of us acknowledge that it's shit.
In fact this is one of the examples that proves that nostalgia doesn't automatically make a series good.
I have some hardcore nostalgia for it. It's really not as good as people want to make it out to be, but it's definitely fun to watch and has its moments.
It's the love hina of battle shounens.
The anime filler murdered the pacing.
The start (Pilaf saga) was weak.
The writing started falling apart past Frieza.
The dub gave the series more personality.
Kai helps with the pacing, but cuts out filler indiscriminately (inc. driver's ed.) and its redraws are offensively cheap.
TFS Abridged DBZ is best DBZ.
pilaf isn't even in DBZ
It's for infinite losers.
Anime is for infinite losers.
This might surprise you, but DBZ is Dragonball.
Dragon Ball was god tier.
Dragon ball Z pre Cell saga was good.
Cell saga was alright and had a few remedying qualities e.g Future Trunks and Hercule.
Buu Saga was shit.
A few of the filler episodes were god tier like the driving one.
Dragon ball GT never happened.
So Goku, Piccolo, Gohan and Vegeta do nothing in the manga
I actually didn't watch it until a few years ago, because I never saw it TV.
The fights were really satisfying but the filler was just incredible. Now I truly understand what people meant when they say that everything was drawn out. Also, the Android and Cell saga should have come before Freiza. I don't know why they came after. It just started to get really stupid at that point.
>What does /a/ think about DBZ?
>Home For Infinite Losers
A lot of the process of change that happens in f.e. the Gohan-Piccolo relationship and Vegeta is not in the Manga.
/a/ thinks DBZ is Dragonball. The only people who mentally separate them are the ones who haven't seen what happened before Raditz.
And those people probably shouldn't be discussing the series on /a/.
>Buu Saga was shit
What are you, insaiyan?!
inb4 someone starts the "Toriyama wanted to end the series after _____" bullshit
>the Android and Cell saga should have come before Freiza
Really, do they really happen the other way around in the Manga? I didn't know that..
The manga-ka has actually forgotten characters even exist on at least two occasions, I know he was called out on Lunch (Tien's girlfriend who mysteriously disappears), and had Krillin mention offhandedly that she was off looking for him.
>the Android and Cell saga should have come before Freiza. I don't know why they came after.
Toriyama was notorious for making the story up as he went along although his stem of conscious writing style has never been great for manga. It's most likely he originally had 19 and 20 be the big bad androids but then realised that it wouldn't be very interesting so did a bait and switch and added 17 and 18 with 16 being an extra unknown but then realised having those androids beat all the super saiyans wouldn't be very interesting either so he made up Cell. He then of course added the hyperbollocks time chamber. That period of writing was most definitely the most disjointed to almost Bleach level writing (Who said Espada went 1 to 10?) (Who said this was the big bad/my final form!!?)
>/a/ - Anime & Manga
If you are talking about the anime, splitting them up makes a lot of sense, even if you have seen DB.
Didn't Cell have cells from Freiza though?
It was an arbitrary division. They could have put it before Piccolo Jr. and after the timeskip to Goku's adulthood just as easily.
Ya know... I never thought about that.... The whole re-ordering the series thing... that would have been interesting... Mainly its the fact that they needed a reason to keep Vegeta in the story somehow and if he came back to Earth right after getting his ass beat ESPECIALLY with everyone dead then there'd be nobody to fight Cell while Goku recovered...
Huh... I kinda REALLY like the idea of shuffling Cell into where Friza took place.... Thanks anon! You've given me something to needlessly obsess over for the next few hours!
It was painful. Sat through 100 episodes waiting for the battle with Frieza, hoping that that would be when it got good.
It didn't. Nothing but a scripted battle with a cartoon villain.
Shut it off as he was about to blow up Namek. I just couldn't take it any more.
>Shut it off as he was about to blow up Namek
But it only lasted five more minutes
After Nameks explosion it got really good though.
I remember having a huge boner for Android 18 as a kid.
You couldnt sit through the five minutes of Namek blowing up?
It doesn't. He's lying.
One of the most influential series of all time... and it's shit. I got to watch it as a young boy so it was awesome for me. Recently watched the abridged series with my friends and it was great to see that spin on it. I can't imagine how anybody can be an adult and actually enjoy vanilla DBZ.
He expected a documentary
Does it have relevance anymore?
Reminder that Dragonball was better
Toriyama is an artistic hack.
All their faces are the same, but they have different hair.
I don't think he's lying, it's just his phrasing is shit. Everything after "Also" was intended to be a separate thought from the filler.
He said should have. Pretty sure he was saying about how the scale of the fighting went from "beating a galactic villain" to "fighting a giant bug man who breaks the established rules of the universe for no reason (i.e. regenerating from NOTHING. That's where DBZ stopped being a good time for me. That bullshit is where they lost me)
>TFS Abridged DBZ is best DBZ.
This man speaks the truth.
My country is obsessed with it; almost the whole franchise
I never quite enjoyed it though; I remember the only one I came close to liking was GT, and that was because spaceship
>All their faces are the same
He actually gave them really subtle differences, that make their faces really different, which is actually really hard to do.
>best action choreography in all of comics
They have gotten pretty meh lately. Tha Android saga just feel lackluster.
the BR republic of hueland
It's hard to do if you've deliberately restrained yourself with an inflexible art style, sure.
Frieza > Saiyan > Piccolo > Pilaf > Cell > Red Ribbon > Buu
Not to say that any of it is bad though. I love all of Dragon Ball.
Really? I thought episode 39 has been one of the best yet.
>this one has a bigger forehead
>this one has blue eyes
That's not artistic skill, that's shit.
>characters punching so fast that they're just drawn as a blur
Inflexible, you seem to be confusing it with recognisable? It's one of the most diverse in anime. Even JoJo's is more "inflexable"
Accusing an artist of sameface is the dumbest fucking thing because you can accuse anyone of it. Every artist has varying degrees of sameface. Even Naoki Urasawa goes back to the well for a lot of his ancillary characters.
>It's shit because I say so
and here I was coming into this thread thinking DBZ fans were the childish ones
No. I didn't know how much longer it lasted, and I didn't care. I had seen enough.
Really? Frieza before Sayans? Sayans without the filler (hell, WITH the filler) had some of the best pacing in any shonen anime. I'm not tryin' to argue or anythin', just kinda shocked and was curious about your preferences.
Always felt Frieza arc had some of the best character moments but took too damn long to get to where it was going to. I think about where Vegeta died is where the pacing just.... fell all to pieces.
Had some great quotes but I wasn't really impressed with it. I think 38 was the best of the newer stuff. Mainly I'm just mad at what they did with Android 16. I wanted hbi2k's snark. I'm kinda pissed that Kaiser is stuck playing both of the most important characters in this arc....
Are we still on Namek?
welcome to anime dipshit
We were never on Namek..
I give the pacing in Frieza a lot of slack because it is, for all intents and purposes, the Battle to End All Battles. Everything in the series had led up to that point and for the very first time, the fate of the entire universe was at stake. You just don't rush a moment like that.
Of course, the whole "five minutes" thing was pretty ridiculous, even in the manga.
DB was good
Very early DBZ was alright and a few sub-plots in later DBZ were alright
Most of later DBZ was awful
DBGT was cancer
All of the movies are cancer.
When should I watch the History of Trunks?
Now, it's pretty cool.
after cell saga
All of the movies that I watched were cancer*
I like the cheesy as fuck 10 episode long battles. The endless training arcs in between are awful though.
I'd say most people have nostalgia goggles for it.
>Vegeta's brother from the Jump special getting namedropped out of nowhere
>BTW, there's a multiverse
>not even getting into the insanity of the MMO
>now Goku's mom is getting her own backstory
I'll be honest, I still don't know how to feel about all this new world-building. It's starting to feel like the Star Wars EU to me. Like pseudo-canon.
I think most people would admit that. DBZ was just awesome to kids. It would just be awful shonenshit if I saw it for the first time now.
I'm watching it now and it's awesome.
the greatest thing to happen to manga and anime
Well, shonen is meant for kids and early teens. Most of the posters on /a/ are well outside shonen's target demographic.
>All of the movies are cancer
The worst part is how Toriyama forgets things and makes other things irrelevant.
The girl who sneezes and changes personality.
Kao-Ken or whatever.
Krillin becomes useless pretty much at the first plot point in DBZ.
Vegeta goes from a significant villain to angsty sidekick who can't even kill a villain with a suicide attack.
Mentally they aren't.
To each their own. I liked a lot of shonen as a kid but I find the tropes worn out and annoying now. And DBZ is chock full of shonen cliches.
Yeah, but a lot of people in their 20s would have seen it on Toonami when they were young.
6-/10 at best. 7/10 at its prime (up to Frieza).
Cell and Buu are literally rotten shark cum-tier
You mean everything past the Freezer arc. Thank you powerlevels cancer.
Yeah and pretty much the only 'attack' that scaled along was the kamehameha.
Vegeta forgets he has a Garlic Gun, Piccolo rarely uses his forehead drillbeam thing. They have to make up some fancy new powerlevel move EVERY fight except for goku who can just AHHH harder and fire his kamehameha load around.
It's complete shit. Worst anime I've ever seen.
I watched it as a kid. The parts I remember are that time where Goku fought his brother up to the Cell Saga ending. Even as a kid I realized the pacing was crap, but I enjoyed it. I wasn't a fan of the art style, but it was interesting so I didn't really mind.
I got pretty burned out on the show because of that pacing during the Frieza fight, but kept on because Android 18 did things to my penis. And that scene where Cell absorbed 18 through his tail did really weird things to my penis.
I liked when the show was silly more than it was serious. Stuff like when Goku was dead the first time and traveling through the afterlife was bizarre but definitely interesting. A lot of the fights actually bored me because of how drawn out they were. It was just impossible to really get into things when a lot of the fights seemed to have no impact. They threw balls of energy at each other or rushed each other then punched each other really really fast in a ball of fire.
I liked Dragon Ball for that goofiness a lot more, but I saw Z first. Overall, while it had a rather large impact on my childhood, on its own, it would have never gotten me into anime.
Why is Chichi blond?
Also, Goku SS God design looks a little bit off here.
I forgot what was on their shirts in the english version, but then you just reminded me that it was HFI L
I loved seeing how some kid went from kind of strong to one of the most powerful man on the planet. Then eventualy into one of the most powerful people in the universe. Then even further as Goku is one of the most powerful fictional characters ever created.
>Goku is one of the most powerful fictional characters ever created.
>not even omnipotent.
It was 9/10 in my opinion, despite fact that half of fights were something like this
>then fight starts
But cmon its Dragon fcking Ball Z!
>Krillin becomes useless pretty much at the first plot point in DBZ.
Sure, he was always the butt monkey, but he got his ass handed to him during DBZ
You're allowed to curse here. But you aren't allowed to be here, come back when you're 18.
>Yeah and pretty much the only 'attack' that scaled along was the kamehameha.
Interestingly, the solar flare worked as well at the end as it ever did.
With the way the Dragonball universe was set up, Tien and Yamcha should have been completely irrelevant as fighters in DBZ past the Saiyan Saga. Even more so than they were already.
The implication that Tien was stronger than Krillin after Namek was unmitigated bullshit. Power levels were fucked in general by that point, but this was probably the instanced that bugged me the most.
Regardless, even Krillin was Puar-tier relative to the enemies by that point.
1 month more!
>The implication that Tien was stronger than Krillin after Namek was unmitigated bullshit.
He isn't actually. Toriyama confirmed this several times.
I haven't seen what you're talking about. I'm basing my perception on how Tien was effective at keeping Cell down (admittedly with a suicide attack) while Krillin couldn't do anything against a reskinned saibaman.
Tien was doing the equivalent of pushing a 7 foot tall bodybuilder player back. You might be able to stop him from moving, but once he gets his head clear he's gonna kick your ass.
The worst thing was probably Gohan getting power boosts out of Toriyama's ass.
Apparently human+saiyan=effortless supersaiyan
Unless you don't have a penis.
i still wear em
To be fair, Vegeta and Trunks couldn't do shit against the Cell Jrs either. Which is weird if you compare it to Vegeta kicking the absolute shit out of phase 2 Cell.
Power levels in Dragon Ball are really wonky if you think about them too much.
Dude, Gohan being broken has been foreshadowed since Raditz. He just never had the control and the proper motivation until his fight with Cell.
Unless you're talking about Mystic Gohan, in which case I can't really disagree with you.
The Cell Jrs were about as strong as Goku was, so that would explain it
When you have an old pevert giving you the biggest power boost ever for free while everyone else is training hard, something is wrong. There's just that weird masturbation goign on around Gohan, I suspect he is the easiest character to self insert as in this show.
>about as strong as Goku was
>Vegeta couldn't do shit against the Cell Jrs
It's DEEP commentary about how the younger generation gets everything handed to them on a silver platter.
Dragon Ball was good, but DBZ is pretty shit. It was still passable through the Freeza/Namek arc, but after that it just gets fucked. Toriyama should never have tried to write time travel, he's clearly too dumb for that and didn't care enough to plan the story ahead at all, which resulted in him having to change the rules several times because he kept writing himself into corners. The power scale becomes just senseless- Vegeta was strong enough to blow up planets when he first appeared, by the Cell saga he's hundreds of times stronger than that and there are people even stronger than him, so how can they fight on Earth at full power without blowing it to bits? even the blasts Tenshinhan used to stall Imperfect Cell should have destroyed the planet, he was certainly stronger than early series Vegeta by that point and he was aiming directly to the ground. And the character die so often that it becomes a meaningless event- even when they stay dead for a while it doesn't matter because apparently the afterlife is a physical location that you can teleport to if you know the technique. And then you can meet "gods" who have a limited power level that can be easily surpassed by mortals with enough training.
Does that mean that one of the Cell Jrs could have beaten Frieza. Because that just seems insane. My mind just can't accept how ridiculous that is.
The anime is what made the series infamous, along with the Buu saga.
Minus that, the manga is good overall, and we need another anime adaptation based off the manga. And I don't mean another DB:KAI, I mean an entirely new studio starting over from scratch to make an anime more faithful to the manga.
It'll be far superior to the original anime, and end much of the criticism of the series received from the original anime.
And of course continue the overall story with movies like BoG.
Manga is much better. Anything with letter's lke "Epic Dragonslayers X" and "Dragon Ball Z" is cancer, and anyone enjoying them are either a retard or an american (even though these are synonyms)
What was wrong with the Saiyan-Frieza Sagas? Hell, even the Android and Cell Sagas had some great ideas. I'd say the History of Trunks is one of the best shonen anythings.
>Does that mean that one of the Cell Jrs could have beaten Frieza. Because that just seems insane.
Yep. Check this shit out.
Frieza < SSJ Goku < Androids 17 and 18 < Cell < Form 2 Cell < SSJ 1.5 Vegeta < Cell God Damn Jr.
Broly ones are cool
Well DBZ was supposed to end after the Cell saga which would have cemented Gohan as the GOAT character(hes still my favorite) but he is totally nerfed in the buu saga until ultimate Gohan but even then he doesnt get a chance to prove himself because
>hurr goku haz to win duh whole ting.
still gohan getting powers isnt nearly as bad as goten and trunks turning super saiyan at the age of 7 and 8
>mfw goten had to turn super saiyan against FUCKING CHI CHI
Except the Buu saga was awesome.
Also, is GT canon or not?
Dragonball as a whole is a true classic regardless of what people think.
DBZ itself is one of the main things that brought anime outside of Japan, without it I'm unsure the west would have ever given a shit. That being said, the quality of the entire thing rubberbands all over the place. There's tons of pointless, drawn-out episodes in both DB and DBZ though less in DB by a noticeable margin. And it's clear that Toriyama never took any notes, never had a plan past the first quarter of the manga, and forgot things constantly.
I think that if Toriyama wasn't so incompetent face it, he's incompetent as hell we would have gotten a much more interesting manga past the second tournament, and a much better adaption in the form of DBZ.
However, with all the shit and negative things about it, it's still one of my more nostalgic shows, and one I'll never truly dislike, and I'm sure most people think that way.
I watched it right before the Trunks Saga. Easily the best way to watch it, especially since, original timeline-wise, everything before the Trunks Saga leads straight into it, followed by Trunks getting a redo, traveling back in time, and beginning the Android Saga. Ending montage got me hyped.
The Broly ones are retarded.
Broly as a character is retarded. I understand something like a weaponized Sayan baby being THAT strong but past the first movie, it got stupid. Broly, someone who Vegeta was scared shitless of should NOT HAVE DIED AT THE HANDS OF CHILDREN.
The concept of Broly as a character was pretty neat, the movies and the execution of them was not.
Buu saga was a bit ridiculous in switching the lead back to Goku, instead of having Gohan, Trunks, and Goten mature as heroes of their own. Goku should have only appeared for a brief moment to lend some training or something before departing back to the afterlife, instead of handling everything on his own.
It makes the entire point of Goku nurting Gohan during Cell saga rather pointless.
Bio Broly has got to be the worst movie of them all. Who even comes up with this shit?
You know, you two are right.
Maybe I'm a bit biased because I love both the concepts behind Buu and Broly.
I think that's the worse offense from the dragon ball Z saga, they do execution crappily. For example, Goku has a brother and you kill it on the second chapter? come on....
I don't mind Goku being the hero, it's just that you've got to stay consistent. You can't hype up Gohan for almost all of DBZ, especially the Cell saga, having him become the strongest, just for his old man to come back even more powerful than him and save the day this time around.
If Toriyama was going to do this, Gohan shouldn't have ever been born in the first place, or at least never been a fighter.
But whatever, I'm still fine with the direction the series is going with the movies. Goku's clearly established as being the hero, and Vegeta's getting his time to shine.
>Bio Broly has got to be the worst movie of them all
It was a complete abomination. Like they were seriously running on ideas so they used the terrible ones they didn't use in order to make more movies.
Clearly more DEEP commentary about not forcing your children into what you want them to be.
Hmm, I was just thinking that. Gohan never wanted to be a fighter in the first place, his father and Piccolo were the ones molding him. He was more in tune with his mother and becoming a scholar.
I think Gohan would have been better as another genius type character along the lines of Bulma and co, leaving the fighting to everyone else, or maybe staying as a side character.
>Gohan would have been better as another genius type character along the lines of Bulma and co
You're actually describing adult Gohan in GT.
> He was more in tune with his mother and becoming a scholar.
She was a control freak and Goku was never really around. He makes a poor father figure in the first place, Piccolo is a much better one.
>you will never have though but caring fatherfigure like Piccolo
It's about a billion episodes too long and only a fifth as good as Dragonball, but it looks like a fucking masterpiece compared to GT.