Best Admiral Edition
So Is luffy going to solo dofla?
I have mixed feelings. I don't know if I should stay loyal to Kizaru or become a full time Fujitora fag
He isn't a logia though
So what, he is best justice. He is like a balanced Kizaru/Akainu/Aokiji
But he controls gravity doesn't he?
Has Luffy ever not solo'd the main villain of the arc?
Who's fight should be shown first?
Lucci (not main villain but strongest villain)
he solos all the saga villains
>Fujitora is blind
>He is a gravity logia
>He is literally a black hole
Which is weird because gravity is kind of Blackbeard's thing too
Depends at what point he's 'soloing' them, Aisa and Nami had to help him reach Enel, a lot of people had to help take down Oars to make Moria come out. Chimney helped him find Lucci, I'd kind of be stretching it to say Franky helped in a way by going after Robin thus freeing his burden to keep fighting Lucci. Maybe Robin with Crocodile, plus her giving him the antidote afterwards.
I suppose if we're to go really far back, Zori took out Morgan, though considering him a main villain is kind of funny.
Blackbeard's power is darkness, and he can suck things towards him. Not really the same as gravity.
Gravity is an emergent ability of Blackbeard's fruit, not a fundamental one
Blackbeard AND kishi. which is weird.
Jesus Christ Gravity and Darkness are not the fucking same
Hence "kind of"
But only a small part of Blackbeard's power slightly resembles part of Fujitora's power.
Better to say that Blackbead's ability to suck in people and objects is part of the conceptual aspect of his DF, since in real life, darkness really does suck in light.
Shiki is levitation, BB is a black hole, Fujitora have a more complete hability than shiki but lacks the more complex properties of BB fruit (Sucking matter and DF powers)
Darkness swallows everything, gravity is a force that acts on all objects. Huge difference man.
Sucking matter to an immaterial world btw
Can we just agree that Fujitora's ability is fucking awesome? I love how he just flies his ship around like it's the most normal thing in the world
>since in real life, darkness really does suck in light
Please, don't confuse mango logic and real world physics
I think there was some confusion in the previous thread over a point I was trying to make that caused some aggravation.
When I asked if people thought Fujitora has to touch things to manipulate them or not it wasn't me claiming that he had to and offering the anime as proof.
I'm simply pointing out that there is nothing yet that he manipulated that was totally impossible for him to have touched. The meteors he pulled down could have been rocks he touched on the ground and sent into space, although I would argue the craters suggest otherwise, and when he crushed the gamblers he could have sword slashed them off panel or with an iai technique.
Now I know that adds complexity to how his DF work and the simple explanation is typically best, and that's why I don't think it's a requirement, but it is a possibility I can't discount that.
Besides we know Oda loves to hold things back , not draw shit, or do things off panel to keep us from being certain how a DF works. For what....a decade we could guess that DD had the string DF where were the panels in Jaya or MF where you could see the strings like we saw them so clearly later in PH and DR arc? Is Trebol a logia or paramecia can we be sure yet or is Oda fucking with us as usual. Did we know the limits or name of the TB DFs for many chapters? Until we saw Absalom's bazookas was it clear how his powers work? Oda does that shit all the time.
As for the anime when it shows Fujitora slashing all the gamblers before crushing them we all know that's not canon since it's in the anime. I wonder however if that padding was based on something the animators know that we don't...some future reveal....or it could just be standard padding.
In conclusion. I'm not claiming that Fujitora has to touch things. I'm suggesting that it is a possible restriction that I can't disprove or discount 100%
Who else can't wait to hear sakazukis backstory?
Not me. He already had his heartwarming moment
Its not very possible at this point, hes used the power too many times without actually touching the object. Could Oda change it later? Of course because he can change anything, but for now theres no reason to think its a possibility.
Xusasa's fighting style
Gladius' DF power
Big Mam's DF power
That Coby is the best.
For the moment Burgess's power seems to be extreme upper body strength or perhaps a weapon in that elbow armor. Maybe Gladius is just a hothead, probably not just that but it would be amusing. And we're unsure of Big Mom overall, she appears to maybe be a giant and maybe her saliva is just so disgusting it produces steam or something.
Name one time he used it without touching the object.
He could have put the rocks in space beforehand
He could have slashed the gamblers in an offpanel iai tech
He must have touched his fucking ship
His sword contacted Zoro's
He must have eventually touched Law off panel
What am I missing? Yeah it's a lot of off panel that's why I don't think this is likely, but I can't think of a scene that 100% excludes it.
Also, I'd still argue that he didn't touched the gamblers (see chapter 701 [btw, Dressrosa started almost a year ago]) And what you are describing is EXACTLY Shiki's power with no nuance whatsoever
>He already had his heartwarming moment
Jesus fucking Christ, Anon. Too soon
I suspect Burgess doesn't have a DF and the elbow wind blast is just a move he does and could do it without the armband
I think Gladius is....IDK hedgehog zoan...IDK
Big Mam could be an acid logia or paramecia and that steam is from her nasty ass acid saliva
>He could have slashed the gamblers in an offpanel iai tech
Yeah like I said I don't think this is likely, but Occam's Razor isn't proof.
Yeah it pretty much is the same as Shiki, but he can use it on people, so there is at least one difference.
>he could have done anything off panel
Shitty argument. You could just as easily say Kizaru has to plug himself into an outlet to charge but he always does it off screen. Occam's razor nigga.
Well can you prove that? Or is it just your opinion? If it's the latter then I share that opinion, but I can't prove it.
Thanks. It wasn't bad for a ten second brainstorm
>but Occam's Razor isn't proof.
No one needs proof to disclaim a theory that doesn't have any proof. The burden of proof is on the claimer.
I didn't bring Occam's razor as a proof, but just to say that it's overthinking for no reason. And again, that difference isn't big enough to justify a separate devil fruit and that would be boring
>Well can you prove that? Or is it just your opinion? If it's the latter then I share that opinion, but I can't prove it.
Thats not how logic works.
Blackbeard is the black hole, you fool
I felt I made it clear I never claimed I could prove it. Only that I couldn't eliminate the possibility, and with Oda's tenancy to trick us about DFs before the reveal and having to touch something being a common feature of numerous DF it isn't as radical as it sounds.
There is not a single hint in the manga indicating any slashing
It has no substance and there are several things pointing against it, I don't understand how you can think its actually a possibility. When you need an asspull to make a theory work its not a good theory.
But the problem is that there is an infinite amount of conjectures that we can make out of it and that won't lead us nowhere. I just don't get why would you bring that possibility in the first place? It's just so irrelevant compared to "the sword has the DF" theory
What is fact and what is opinion are two separate things. It's my opinion that he doesn't need to touch things that's my prediction.
Fact however is that we can't prove he doesn't need to touch things...can we? It being simple that he doesn't is not proof.
How is it not logical to separate what I think is the answer and what I can prove is the answer.
>He already had his heartwarming moment
A prediction/hypothesis shouldn't even be brought up if there is no way to prove it. What's the point?
>Fact however is that we can't prove he doesn't need to touch things...can we? It being simple that he doesn't is not proof.
Yes, we can because he was already shown using his power without touching things already. When you need to go into past chapters and add in scenes that weren't there to make your theory stick, it doesn't work.
Lets have a discussion on what the D.s are and what the D. stands for
Where is the asspull?
Plenty of DF users need to touch things
Oda loves to leave things out with off panel or just straight up not drawing things in a panel
It seems unlikely to me....not so impossible or unlikely it should be discounted completely
You needing to go back and add in things that didn't happen is the asspull.
>When you need to go into past chapters and add in scenes that weren't there to make your theory stick, it doesn't work.
B-but that's what physicists do
I'm joking, don't hit me
My theory is that Blackbeard has a special condition that makes him unable to poop. Hence the "weird body" remarks by Marco.
Al the meat pies he eats can't leave his body so they just stay where they are, accumulate and when enough mass/pressure is there, all the food turns into a singularity.
Black holes aren't generated by darkness, it's actually the other way around. Him having the darkness fruit is obviously a red herring to throw us off.
It also explaisn Teach's painful childhood, where he was butthurt all the time.
Assuming this theory is correct (it is), let's speculate further: Chopper's dream is to cure all diseases, and when he cures Blackbeard's inability to poop, the guy will be indebted to the strawhats and join them as an ally in their final fight against the WG.
Fuji doesn't have the gravity fruit, his sword does.
That's why he always unsheathes it when he uses his power.
>>has to charge himself everyday like an outdated iphone
Kizaru is more like superman, he has to sun bathe everyday. On cloudy days he can't do shit. That's why he's lazy and was passed over for promotion to Fleet admiral.
This is a possibility
Before we saw him flying the ship while eating could we disprove the theory that it was his sword that had his DF rather than him? Did that mean the hypothesis should never have been brought up? I don't agree with that. You make a hypothesis and you test it testing it is reading more as more comes out after seeing if anything shown in the past excludes it right? Well nothing excludes it yet....
When DD was controlling Sarquis and Bellamy at Jaya we never saw the strings right? They just weren't there. Later when he cuts off Oars Jr's leg do we see the strings? Do we see the strings when he controls Jozu? No we never did we all figured it was strings because it fit, but it wasn't the only explanation only the most likely. Then later we see the strings all over during PH and DR was the lighting different or did Oda want to keep us guessing IDK.
It's not impossible that he slashed the gamblers either so fast we didn't see it ah la Iai or it was done off panel or a combination thereof. Oda loves doing that shit to us.
He was using his ability when the sky was cloudy at the very end of the marineford war
>When DD was controlling Sarquis and Bellamy at Jaya we never saw the strings right? They just weren't there. Later when he cuts off Oars Jr's leg do we see the strings? Do we see the strings when he controls Jozu? No we never did we all figured it was strings because it fit, but it wasn't the only explanation only the most likely. Then later we see the strings all over during PH and DR was the lighting different or did Oda want to keep us guessing IDK.
Thats completely different. We saw that he was doing something but we just didnt know what. As opposed to this you're adding something that isn't hinted towards at all. Not even close to the same situation. I don't know why you're trying so hard to make this theory stick.
He was eating ramen while flying the ship and dropping meteors on the Sunny.
The thing with the sword theory is that there is multiple moments where Oda seems to hint that the sword has something to do with the ability (personally, I just think it's for the show), but that touch theory is just out of nowhere and based on "it all happened off screen". 2random4me
>Well nothing excludes it yet....
Except for the fact that it flat out didn't happen and wasn't hinted towards in any way.
because he had been charging up pre-war
He jumps and next panel he's past the leg and it's cut off. The part where the leg is cut we don't just not see the string we don't see it happen at all. How is that different?
Are you suggesting an Admiral level swordsman couldn't iai slash all those gamblers in no time flat? Is there no way at all that that could happen...in a manga...where people have super speed...
I try so hard because I don't think things should be discounted when there is no proff. We can say it's unlikely we could even say it's very unlikely, but I don't see how we can say it's impossible.
That's not how logias work.
>implying Superman is vulnerable on cloudy days
>implying what you say makes sense according to your own theory
Its different because we clearly see him cutting the leg off somehow, we just don't see what hes doing. There is nothing that points towards your theory and several things that points against it, give it up man.
The only visible string dofla has is his whip attack which has mihawk level power
He'll probably receive an assist or two without actually fighting Doflamingo side by side with someone. I'd reckon Law momentarily buying Luffy time, giving him a hand with one "Room," or warning Luffy about Doflamingo's abilities.
Then don't say he can't do shit on cloudy days
And don't make logia weaknesses out of your ass
Aw shit, I just figured out that you were actually disproving this kind of logic
Except for the moment when he is chowing down while both flying a ship and dropping rocks on people. It was a good theory until then if you ask me.
Yeah, that's why my opinion shifted to "it's just for the show"
dude, I was being facetious and going along with >>101937709 's theory.
In no real way was I actually expecting a logia to work like that. That's like saying Akainu has to go skinny dipping in a volcano to recharge his ability. Sorry for not saying jk, Zehahahaha
Okay fine fine. I just think however likely it might seem and I personally don't think it's the answer I don't think it should be excluded. We see the leg cut off but we don't see it happen (not just we don't see the string but the whole cutting event) with the gamblers we see them get crushed but we don't see everything....I would say there is enough wiggle room there even if it seems unlikely and I agree it does, but I don't think it's as impossible as many here would suggest.
No point in beating a dead horse though.
I got another puzzler for ya all.
Sabo's Dragon Claw technique. Did Sabo use BH hardening on himself and Burgess or did they both use BH to enhance their blows?
>That's like saying Akainu has to go skinny dipping in a volcano to recharge his ability
>implying he doesn't
And Blackbeard has to listen to Linkin Park to recharge
I think he uses his sword to...."aim" his DF so to speak. Much in the same way that Law uses his sword to "aim" his.
That's kinda always how I've seen it.
>I don't think it should be excluded.
Its not that it should be excluded, its that theres no reason to include it in the first place.
>we see them get crushed but we don't see everything
We see them attacking Luffy, then we see Fujitora slighlty unsheathing his sword and then they get crushed. Nothing could have happened inbetween
Okay then. Moving on what are your thoughts on Sabo's Dragon Claw
No it IS gravity. The darkness is a visual effect of his blackholes catching light.
Hmm, need to re-read the pages
12/10 I would have a drink with you. You took my joke and kicked it up a knotch.
What does Crocodile have to do to recharge? Bury himself in the sand?
Oh i'm sorry, I forgot you wrote OP instead off Oda.
Well, based on what we know about CoA, I don't see why would Sabo harden Jesus' armor. I think they both did
That was actually quite good. Thank you, based anon
This time my wild theory is that we are seeing a new use for BH hardening.
I'm suggesting that Burgess didn't use haki and the glossy black typically look of BH on his elbow guard was applied by Sabo after impact spreading from the point of contact.
I further would suggest that the Dragon Claw is a armor breaking tech and he did that with carefully manipulated BH to make the armor hard...but rather than more durable more brittle if that makes sense. So that his three pronged impact could shatter the metal. It wouldn't dent or flex and rebound like armor normally would it just broke apart since he had made it more brittle.
I think it would be cool if BH had more uses for those who choose to specialize in it.
So totally crazy again?
>Blackbeard said "I AM DARKNESS"
>Fruit is called dark dark fruit
Yeah, must be gravity
>So totally crazy again?
if that's your theory, then the yami yami no mi is personal gravity with god-tier limits and Fuji's DF is just general gravity with (demonstrated so far) mid tier limits with high tier application.
Swim in your mom's vagina
Lol well whatever. I like coming up with theories as unlikely as they may seem. Oda can be pretty tricky and I've been right a few times though...not often lol.
He said in the following page.
"DARKNESS. IS GRAVITY." He quite literally explained everything about the darkness aspect. What the fuck is wrong with you?
I had Monet pegged right from the start when many were talking out their ass about her being a mythical bird snow zoan or an mythical bird egg user.....crazies. Makes much more sense that Law gave her the wings and she controls Snow.
>Let's ignore every other proof and just pick that one quote to justify my silly theory
You should haki coat your bait because it's pretty weak
Nothing wrong with crazy theories, you just keep throwing out the obvious solution and changing it to one that isn't hinted to at all.
The yami yami fruit obviously has some additional unrevealed benefit if BB was so adamant about getting that specific fruit for years. He even said he joined WB's crew specifically to get that fruit so that was the entire purpose of his pirate career.
Must be a really good benefit since what he displayed so far is not THAT overpowered.
It's genuinely not bait though. It legitimately makes sense. >>101939503
Even this /a/non can see where I'm coming from.
It does actually make sense that the two fruits are cut from the same cloth, but have differences in their applications. The Yami Yami(Darkness Darkness) fruit is probably given its name specifically because of how its abilities LOOK rather than what they are. Darkness doesn't even fucking exist in the most technical sense, it's a visual effect of their not being any light in that area.
It's just that Blackbeard can understand that. I mean, Magellan's fruit can create poisons, and so can Ceasar's. They're not the same power with different applications, but fruits are quite clearly allowed to be similar.
>Darkness doesn't even fucking exist in the most technical sense
The trolling is strong within you.
Are you kidding right now? I'm not being completely serious, but I'm definitely not fucking trolling.
Not really. For Fujitora I think he doesn't have to touch things that's the way I see it, but I come up with other explanations just for fun.
What do you think about Dragon Claw...both of them used BH? That seems so boring. Wouldn't it be much cooler if that move was designed to shatter armor and it uses a new level of haki mastery likely only available to someone who trains a great deal with haki rather than focusing on a DF.
I want to see some real haki masters doing things that DF users can't do. Not things they can do but better by a degree...but different.
If the haki beasts we are likely to meet in the series can do nothing more than apply better haki than others then that just seems so bland to me.
That "darkness is gravity" quote is the same thing as "speed is weight".
>Darkness doesn't even fucking exist
>He thinks it's the real world
It's not the first time we see metaphysical fruits and I sure hope it's not the last time.
Live long and prosper.
>That seems so boring. Wouldn't it be much cooler if that move was designed to shatter armor and it uses a new level of haki mastery likely only available to someone who trains a great deal with haki rather than focusing on a DF.
See this what i'm talking about. You throw out the obvious explanation for no reason and then make up something that isn't hinted at in any way. Its just no plausible.
But /a/non, it's cooler
No, I don't think real world logic applies to One Piece. Fuck you for even implying that. I was bringing up said logic as a suggestion that it may have been what Oda was drawing from as a basis. Then again it may have not been.
Regardless of all of that, Blackbeard's fruit still quite clearly makes him a moving black hole. Black holes are related to gravity, they are not darkness, darkness comes from them.
>EVEN THIS /a/non...
What if the yami yami no mi is not gravity, but a blackhole logia (operating on anime logic). gravity is a side effect of the supercompressed mass.
Alternatively, Fuji is strictly the ability to control the an gravity in a way similar to Law's rooms.
Those aren't theories, those are "wouldn't it be cool if instead....?"
It's just metaphysical darkness applied to physics, deal with it. You are trying to make sense out of One Piece, stop or you'll get hurt.
Wow you must be a blast at parties. Use your imagination man. Think big. It doesn't always have to be the obvious explanation and even if it is what's the harm in thinking outside the box?
What proof is there that isn't what happened when Sabo used Dragon Claw. Besides it being unlikely and never hinted at...what proof.
Sometimes things happen and we didn't see them coming. Something new is introduced that wasn't hinted at before and takes us all by surprise. A sudden DF reveal, a new enemy shows up, or whatever. Maybe we haven't seen a scene hinting at more uses for BH because this IS THAT SCENE! What if right? How cool would that be?
>I want to see some real haki masters doing things that DF users can't do.
We already have: [spoilers]swimming[/spoilers]
I wonder how would have Luffy reacted to the meteors. I mean, he sure can try to balloon or jet gatling the fuck out of them, but they looked pretty hot.
i see no spoilers. is this shit on hiatus AGAIN?
>not using that technique ON HIS FACE
It's the New World for fuck's sake, it'S not metal enough
his post wasn't there when I posted, it was between refresh periods
Why can't it be both? Both explain all that we saw in that interaction. One may be more likely...and the other may be cooler, why does that make one not a valid theory.
Probability doesn't exclude all other theories. It's a good indicator and predictor, but just because it's unlikely something will happen or happened doesn't make it impossible...it is still a theory.
What disproves my theory besides Occam's Razor?
See you next week :)
I'm agreeing with you. I didn't mean to get it confused, but thats what I've been saying for a while. Or, trying to.
I'll stop arguing though.
Oh... then I didn't understand well enough, sorry.
who will marimo fight against?
Maybe Zoro will have to fight an 'awakened' Cavendish? Unless one of the Dofla leaders was a sword-user that I didn't notice
I hope it's not Fujitora.
IDK if it's just me, but I don't think the SHs are at Admiral level yet.
If they do fight I hope it gets interrupted or Fujitora is just fucking around. If it's a fair fight and Zoro wins 1v1....that's some BS IMO.
Will Mayumi Tanaka be there (as a VA), to see One Piece end?
Well Diamante was until his sword got shattered to shit by Sabo...he could get a new one.
Maybe Gladius uses a sword?
In the end he doesn't have to fight a swordsman it's not like it's a requirement. He might team up with Viola against Pica with her pointing out his weak points and Zoro slashing him to shit.
Super martial arts style developed by Dragon.
Only Dragon and Sabo know it.
Sabo and Dragon confirmed for no DF
Actually the words used to describe Fuji's gravity and BB's gravity are different in Japanese.
Fuji's is 重力 (Juuryoku) which refers specifically to the Earth's gravity.
While BB's is 引力 (Inryoku) which is basically universal gravitation/attraction.
Hmmmm and did they both use haki in that clash or did Sabo use it on Burgess in a manner I described before.
Personally, I am hoping that Luffy is at least Whitebeard dividion commander level by now. Probably couldn't win a 1 on 1 with an admiral, but I would be disappointed in a fight if he couldn't make an admiral exert himself a bit.
Maybe he'll call a timeout and just stitch his sword back together
one thing that irked me throughout the MF war was the vast gap in power between Whitebeard and his Division commanders
There's no reason to think that Burgess didn't use Haki himself
>be the first mate of the strongest pirate crew in the world
>don't use Haki when you see a strong, Haki imbued attack coming your way
Pffhhh tell that to Ace. I don't recall him using a lick of Haki all though his fights and that hole getting punched though his chest.
Anyone feel like the animation is finally starting to pick up this arc in the anime? I mean its about time, all this QUALITY has been killing me.
Really I think it's too soon for that. If the new world is going to be as long as paradise then the strawhats have time to get to admiral level. Dont have to be there now.
Ace was a scrub who died though.
Also he was pretty exhausted at that point and I think he knew he wasn't going to make it anyway.
I agree, I don't think WB's division commanders were as strong as the admirals. Hence Vista and Marco double teaming Akainu and still getting their shit kicked in.
Nahhh the anime has been doing nothing but piss me off lately. The padding just ruins scenes that blew my mind in the manga. Not to mention anyone who only watched the anime was fucked when fujitora was revealed in the new opening...goodbye suspense.
If he hadn't let his deep seated father complex for WB goad him into a fight with Akainu he may have escaped.
It isn't though, since objects can only eat Zoan fruits
maybe his clothes ate it and the sword is just a distraction!
Well as you like it, but the way I see it there was no reason for Ace not to use haki in that moment and literal life or death scenario unless he didn't know it. Burgess if anything is a blunt meat head....all the more likely he doesn't have a grasp on a spiritual focused skill like haki.....well Vergo was an idiot and was good at haki, but I suspect dumb as he may be Vergo was focused...only way I can see him staying undercover for so long and lying to everyone he had to have a drive or focus
>vergo was an idiot
Well we've only seen zoan objects so far, but we don't know it's impossible.
Personally I figure it has to be only zoan. If you fed a sword the mera it wouldn't be sentient. How would it know to use fire or how would you train it to. If you feed a gun the dog fruit though it has the sentience of a dog...makes sense to me.
If you ask me the idea of Fujitora's sword having a DF isn't possible. Not sentient DF plus him using his power while eating ramen...doesn't add up.
He got straight C's on his English tests
Thats exactly why it's not possible. Zoan fruits imbue sentience to an object, any other fruit would just imbue the power, which would have no trigger to use.
Hey now, that's just a theory. Don't start assuming it's true.
Agreed, but does that mean zoan fruit has sentience before it is consumed. Why don't zoan users have two consciousnesses; one human one animal?
I'll have to reread PH, I must have overlooked that part.
Underestimating Law after all those years and running right at him to get your dumb ass sliced in half
Forgetting if you have a camera or a burger stuck to your fucking face
Not realizing Smoker was playing you and not really trying to fight
Not thinking anyone would catch on to all the missing kids.
Lets be honest he was motivated and focused to stay undercover for so long, but he wasn't very smart.
I will assume it is true until stated otherwise, and there is nothing you can do to stop me!
They do. Sengoku has a spiritual level of intelligence. Like when Oda said in an SBS that if a human ate Chopper's DF he would be enlightened. They don't gain a personality just that level of sentience or intelligence plus what they start with.
So Chopper has the intelligence of a deer and a human and Sengoku has whatever intelligence he started with and that of a Buddha.....so to speak. Not two minds in one just the intelligence
Zoan fruits all have the power of transmitting the traits of an animal to whatever eats it, this includes appearance, abilities and anything else the eater doesn't have. When a sentient creatures eats a Zoan, as there is already a sentience in place, the fruit simply imparts the appearance, abilities, and even personality traits of the fruit (Carnivore zoans are a lot more dangerous than other zoans according to Chopper) but for an object, there is no sentience, thus the fruit implants the whole animal into the object.
What exactly is the Devil Fruits?
We'll find out when Vegapunk decides to show up, the lazy fuck.
>Underestimating Law after all those years and running right at him to get your dumb ass sliced in half
Doffy isn't expecting Luffy to have increased his strength as much as he did in two years, either. Buggy has been around since Roger, and in terms of fighting process he's still just a joke. Character in OP do not have expected levels of growth based on time but on conviction. This is something that the readers know, but characters in universe do not.
>Forgetting if you have a camera or a burger stuck to your fucking face
There is a ridculous percentage of characters with retarded personality traits that are not indicative of their overall intelligence. Brook's panty fetish, Okama my way, Sanji's perpetual lust
>Not realizing Smoker was playing you and not really trying to fight
>Not thinking anyone would catch on to all the missing kids.
They only found them at PH due to Smoker dogging Luffy's ass
Damn, good ass explanation.
So you think Vegapunk is responsible for them?
Why can't an object be imbued with a para or Logia fruit, but done so in a way that it takes a trigger to make it activate. Vegapunk is supposed to be this grand genius, surely he could do something like this. My supporting evidence is Vegapunk being able to replicate Kizaru's lasers.
Ha you hated one of my explanations and like the other. Well I'll take it lol.
I don't think Vergo was very smart. Dangerous and focused to be sure but didn't seem smart to me.
Guys, DFs is one of the biggest part of the series.
What if One Piece is a devil fruit or contain the secret about them?
Designing a laser cannon after observing the pika isn't the same as giving an object the pika.
like making a gun that could fire an earthquake tremor everytime the trigger was pulled. Or a pair of shade that has Viola's ability permanently activated?
I'd be just fine with it never being explained. To me it isn't really relevant to the story it's just part of the world. I don't want it to tie into everything and go away EOS like Fullmetal Alchemist or worse yet get a lame ass explanation like chakra in Narutard....the fucking chakra no mi....blurg
Because it's not just a physical trigger used to activate Devil Fruit powers, it's also a mental one. You can't make an object think "Im gonna be light" or "Im gonna blow up" unless maybe he has robots do it, and then it's not objects eating Logias and Para but robots.
No, but it's been said that Vegapunk discovered all the secrets of Devil Fruits.
I see what you're saying but I think it would be a unique way to build off of what we've seen.
I don't think it's likely, but I would like to see it in an SBS, so I could quit thinking about it.
We've seen Luffy stretch by accident and unintentionally. Like when garp was pulling his face and he doesn't have to activate it to bounce back gun or cannon fire.
Yeah, which is why I said it's not just a physical trigger. Yes, it's possible that feeding an object the Gommu Gommu might make a rubber object, but if you were to feed an object the Bara Bara, yeah it could be sliced apart, but it would not fly around, and might not even be able to reconnect, a lot of Devil Fruit powers are triggered or controlled mentally, and without a mind, theres no way to fully utilize the powers
Well the Gomu is different. The Gomu user is always rubber unless touched by seastone. So if you fed it to say a sword the sword would be rubber but it could stretch on it's own. You would have to IDK swing it forward to extend it by force. It wouldn't know to or be able to launch back and forward like a gomu no pistol
Buggy can only fly around if his feet are on something solid. if an object we to have the Bara bara and get cut, there is no reason to assume it is any different than the gomu gomu since buggy doesn't have to think before getting cut in half. But I do agree wholeheartedly with your Fully utilized comment. I would say that I also agree with >>101943601. My only argument is that there is a slight chance that you could put a para into an object, not that you would have full access to the fruits powers.
I said it could be cut, but it would not be able to fly, and might not even be able to reconnect
>it could be cut
If you mean like buggy, then I would agree with you. If you're saying it could be cut like anything else, I would disagree with you since Buggy's doesn't have to think about splitting to pieces before he gets cut. His fruit makes him immune to being cut, just like Luffy's makes Luffy immune to musket fire. It's an innate quality attributed to that fruit.
>it would not be able to fly
>might not even be able to reconnect
Maybe maybe not. your own premise admits this.
Who is the strongest currently living character in One Piece?
Who is the strongest non-DF user?
Who is the strongest, all-time character?
Alright. Well the point is, even IF objects can eat Logias and Paras, it would be a massive waste of a fruit to do so.
I remember one thread someone kept arguing that theres no reason Paras and Logias wouldn't give sentience to an object.
Maybe that's why Luffy is so dumb...he has the sentience of rubber.
>IF objects can eat Logias and Paras, it would be a massive waste of a fruit to do so
I agree, but it could be an excellent unexpected trump card for a dire emergency and it would give a DF users access to a second fruit. And at worst would keep the fruits out of the hands of the pirates.
>theres no reason Paras and Logias wouldn't give sentience to an object.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
>Who is the strongest currently living character in One Piece?
Kong, Yonko, Sengoku, Garp
>Who is the strongest non-DF user?
>Who is the strongest, all-time character?
>What disproves my theory besides Occam's Razor?
The fact that there is no evidence in support of it and evidence against it?
We don't have nearly enough information to say
We don't have nearly enough information to say
We don't have nearly enough information to say, but probably roger.
What evidence against? What makes it impossible? Not what makes it unlikely.
Nothing makes it impossible because nothing is impossible. If Oda wanted to he could change anything. The evidence against it was already posted a few times.
Spoils when ?
About a week from now.
What would he have to change. There is no rule that haki is any one thing. Just look at how armament haki changed after the time skip. No reason he can't expand on the hardening angle further.
Wouldn't have to change shit to explain what we observed in that clash.
Oh you're talking about your second stupid, baseless theory and I though you were talking about your first stupid, baseless theory.
Darkeness would not be if it werent for light.could light exist without darkness?
cold would not exist were it not for heat. would heat exist were it not for cold?
black would not exist were it not for color. Would color exist without black?
Someone is bitter. I'm still not hearing any evidence that my expanded haki use theory is impossible. It could be the start of a whole new style of haki use what better way to introduce it than with Sabo's return presumably after being trained by Dragon.
No imagination at all mi amigo. Dare to dream a little. Dont settle for what's most likely all the time or at least if that's what you expect don't stop thinking of new things to fit observed events. What's the harm in that.
Sure these things are unlikely compared to the obvious explanation, but fuck it...no harm in considering alternatives.
No that's you're mom.
Its not impossible because nothing is impossible because its a fictional story thats still in the progress of being written. You're just pulling shit out of your ass and then going
>BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN!
Theories are fine but yours aren't based on anything. You have to have at least some basis in the story for it.
Dragon doesn't have a DF power and is just an ordinary weak dude.
Blackbeard is literally a sucker
He's just one big hole.
>Maybe Zoro will have to fight an 'awakened' Cavendish?
I was figuring the same. Cavendish gets crazy pissed off as a toy that nobody remembers him, then when he turns back he first sees Zoro.
>Eh? I'm supposed to recognize you?
Cavendish passes out in rage, cue Hakuba attack.
It's based on haki likely not being explained in full as we saw when hardening was introduced post time skip and how metal becomes brittle when you make it harder.
To a smaller degree I would say that Sabo doesn't appear to have a DF so far and at this point people without a DF tend to have decent haki skill...a good candidate to introduce a new haki tech we haven't seen.
I don't think it's as baseless as you suggest. Just unlikely compared the the obvious status quo. What's so wrong with that.
We all know Sabo is going to eat the Mera Mera. It's essentially guaranteed.
>as we saw when hardening was introduced post time skip
Okay so you ARE a troll.
Yeah and if he's likely to eat a DF he can't already have one. Not having a DF and being a badass leaves only a few options and haki badass is one of them. The perfect person to be the first to introduce us to a new haki technique.
>a new haki technique
Yeah, it's called get hard and smash shit.
Oh I'm sorry was hardening not introduced post time skip did I miss something? Or are you going to tell me that it was added when it was to remedy how clumsy the invisible kind was to see during MF. I would agree that was likely part of Oda's reasoning for adding it, but neither of us can claim that as fact or that it's the only reason he added it.
Post time skip we have been seeing new advances in haki every arc.
First hardening of a limb in FI a totally out of left field radical and "baseless" addition. Before Luffy wipped that out we had no way of expecting a new haki. Same for when Vergo showed off the first full body haki while still having an apparent full range of motion we couldn't have predicted previously.
that aint nothi new i do that to yo moma evry nite
You are just determined to exclude all but the most likely scenario. What a sad sack. When discussing a fantasy world with near limitless possibilities why are you so afraid of acknowledging the unlikely even if you don't support it.
"Hardening" being its own separate thing is a theory. You then took this theory as fact and based another, even less likely theory off of it.
I really like Cabbage, Barto and Kinemon
The story may be lacking a bit post timeskip but the characters are great.
>wahh believe my retarded fan-fiction with no basis in the manga or you have no imagination.
Well I don't think considering alternatives even if you don't think they are the most likely is such a horrible offense as you do, but that's your prerogative. I see no reason not to come up with multiple theories to solve a problem and wait and see what happens when more evidence comes to light. I don't think that's unreasonable strategy. I do think that your manner of declaring the most likely theory to be the only one worth considering is a mistake and I think the theory has as much basis as it needs.
We can't be sure we know all there is to know about haki and what it can or can't do wouldn't you say? Isn't that enough to theorize new uses when they don't conflict with observed panels? I'm not asking you to wager on my theory or convince you it is the most likely.
The problem is that you are throwing out explanations that are already there for literally no reason. Then you're making something up with no basis. If you can give me any reason to think that might have happened then I'll concede, but obviously you can't because you just made it up.
>t-there might be a secret haki!
the very first arc of the entire showfollowed by the second
I'm not throwing out explanations I'm considering multiples. One may be more simple and require less "what ifs" thats fine. I don't discount that. I think that is the most likely explanation for the events we saw....that said I come up with alternatives just for fun. Something else that fits what we know. Typically less elegant more complex, but so what.
If you close your eyes and you touch something that burns you then you don't know right away what it was with only that information. Was it fire?....most likely or was it something else say an acidic substance. Well both will burn the fuck outa you so both are possible, but test your theories and find out what it was. The way we test these theories is wait for more restrictions or more evidence. Until you can eliminate a theory completely for more reason than it being unlikely why do so?
Do you really think from now until end of series we have seen all that haki is capable of? Nothing new is going to be revealed just stronger versions of the same old?
Given that it looks different, is used at different times while the former is still used rather than replaced, and has a different name.
I would argue that haki hardening being a replacement for the invisible kind of before or at least no different in any way but the visual and name is the theory. Or both are theories but I would argue that it being different and having a different use/purpose is more likely.
Why else would the old form still be used if the black one is easier to see and idential in effect? Isn't it more likely that while Oda may have come up with it partiality to make haki use more visually obvious (that point being unproven btw) it might also be something more than that now. Now that it's here it is a different thing and Oda is going to use it as such.
but couldnt a paramecia be 'on' at all times?
Until its introduced as two separate things its just a theory.
So far, only Luffy, Alvida, and Buggy's seem passive. Everyone else(including Buggy) is active-based. Seastone doesn't actually negate abilities, it just turns off any active powers and makes it impossible to activate it, as well as saps their strength.
A paramecia can be on at all times, look at Luffy.
Do we have proof it turns off active powers?
For all we know they just don't have the strength to use it.
Some could perhaps and that remains to be seen, but they wouldn't be nearly as useful as a sentient ally with the DF.
Many paramecia require thought to use and an object wouldn't be able to do that. With say Bentham, Galdino, Tsuru, Dofla, Moriah, Perona, or Robin. Others I could say like Absalom's is his base state being invisible? If so feeding a sword his DF might make it invisible, but I think he has the ability to turn invisible rather than the other way around after eating his DF.
Same goes for logias. If you turn into your element after eating a logia then you could have a sword that was fire...you couldn't alter that fire or manipulate it in any way you couldn't just do with a regular fire...kinda a huge waste of potential.
I'm hard pressed to think of any kind of 'always on' paramecia that would be useful in a weapon.
>your weapon is slippery
>your weapon is rubber
Is it having a different name, look, and use not enough to make it being a different thing seem most likely?
so do we have a chapter today ?
I think it negates abilities. When Luffy had a seastone bullet in him in Z he was no longer a rubber man. Now Z isn't canon but Luffy is always a rubber man right. He doesn't need to activate his gomu powers right? No matter how tired he was...how little energy....even if you knock him out or put him underwater he's still rubber right? While rubber he doesn't take damage from blunt blows they don't hurt him at all. Now during MF when Smoker hit Luffy in the face with his seastone tipped jutte Luffy not only bled, but felt pain. I would say that while he was touching the seastone Luffy was no longer a rubber-man.
If hardening haki being different from standard BH is theory then so is the reverse since neither can be proven. So building a further theory on either can't be discounted with one or the other. Like say my suggesting there is more to haki than what Rayleigh said so long ago. Going on the theory that it is different I suggest a further haki variation saying that hardening is no different doesn't eliminate that theory as it isn't fact either.
Do you even read the manga?
>Do we have proof it turns off active powers?
Wiper got contact with Enel, turning off his lightning, because Enel almost never bothers to turn it off/changes instantly due to CoO.
In Alabasta, Smoker in Croc's cage said he wouldn't be able to move through the bare because the wavelengths would revert him to normal.
Z events aren't canon, but yes, Luffy did bleed, though this is the only instance of Seastone causing damage to Luffy. Since Seastone is called the solid form of the sea, it's strange to think it has an added ability to turn off powers, because completely turning them off was the gimmick of the Yami Yami fruit.
Sword that's made of poison.
Gun that's made of poison.
Hammer made of springs (ACME)
Ah, wait, disregard that Alabasta thing. That was anime exclusive. I don't think that was manga canon.
Smoker's too retarded to not touch the bars.
Poison would be dangerous, springs would be gimmicky at best and useless at worst, you couldn't activate the quakes.
They announce on the last page of the chapter if they've scheduled a break. Go find out for yourself.
Poisons assuming you can cover the hilt.
Springs is gimmicky, that's why I said it.
And I'm sure it could activate on impact.
>activate the quakes
Every hit with a quake quake hammer would cause a earthquake like shock
I've always taken the whole crystallized form of the sea to be more of a metaphor. I prefer to base this off of observed events and luffy wasn't rubber when that seastone hit him. Only possible explanation for it harming him since Smoker didn't have haki back then.
With Enel he was no longer a lightning man while Wiper's skates touched him so even if they weren't dense enough to tire him beyond being able to use his more stamina/energy based logia powers he didn't have them to use at the time...at least that's how I would explain it.
For the Yami it's still a good gimmick. The DF nullifying ability of seastone in a DF is pretty unique, and it comes with other abilities as well.
Thats not how the Gura Gura works. He has to actually activate it, or do you think Whitebeard makes quakes whenever he touches anything?
Maybe he has to deactivate it.
Maybe it only activated under certain circumstances, like when enough force was applied.
>implying he doesn't prevent himself from making quakes
I mean they're called [fruit fruit] humans.
How many years does One Piece have left?
It's between 1/2 and 2/3 through the story.
That isn't how paramecias work.
That's what you think.
Oh so Absalom is always invisible and has to deactivate his power or everything he touches would become invisible? Like say the entire fucking ship he lives on.
Or it requires force like when WB and Shanks slammed their weapons together harder than your mom got her ass slammed last night and yet there was no signature quake effect....lemme guess he deactivated it.
Yes. Luffy will lose to Doflamingo during the first round becuase he had no knowledge of dofla abilities. During the second round luffy will find a counter to it and kick his ass.
Yes. Now you're getting it.
>finding a counter
He uses fucking strings, there are no counters other than raping him.
Overpowered the strings with raw strength, coc may be shown to affect the outcome. Lots of possibilities that oda can come up a weakness for it.
Overpowering the strings with raw strength, coc may be shown to affect the outcome. Lots of possibilities that oda can come up a weakness for it.
Right I got it now. Buggy has always been a bunch of floating detached parts after eating the bara, but he deactivated his power to come together. Oh wait we saw him eat it and he didn't blow apart into floating bits.
Please Oda bring back Bogart in the story
i lold at this
Mfw donfla will be defeated by the mera mera.
stands for dubs. nice dubs
Oh hey. Rereading early One Piece for Wan Piss I found a plothole.
If Don Krieg was supposedly the "ruler of East Blue", disregarding that idiocy, he still reached the Grand Line and got spit back out. But Smoker boasts that until Luffy, no pirate from East Blue had ever reached the Grand Line on his watch.
For shame, Oda, for shame.
>yfw dragon talon is the new fire fist
i need some more of lieutenant stalker antics
I really want to believe that people pretending to discuss any of top 3 excluding KUBOOO threads aren't serious, now look
>show looks like shit
>didn't judge by looks, read and watched a bit
>random, unfunny child-like humour
>GAMUGAMU character developement
>They can't find one thing for over 600 chapters reaching powerlevel of Detective Conan-retarded and looking like latino soap opera,
>Girls in the show are too skinny to even have one doujin come out of it with simmilar to original artstyle and be good
I'm not even trolling, this shit deserves to be nuked with metaposts as much as nurutu and rec threads
Only thing that saves it is probably opening/ending songs and partially the soundtrack.
Maybe Don Krieg didn't go to loguetown and went straight for the grand line.
i thought it was because Mihawk was sitting right at the exit into the Grand Line, and fucked their shit up the moment they got there
I think they sailed several days before encountering mihawk.
Akainu, so far. Because Garp is too old
This said, Garp still the strongest non-DF user for me
And we can surely assume that Gold Roger is the strongest op character of all time
i agree that in later years it has become something that doesnt quite match up with what it used to be
>all those points didnt apply a few hundred chapters ago
>on his watch
Clearly he wasn't on watch then.
>His fifty ships departed, but on the seventh day after entering the region, the entire crew was wiped out by "Hawk-Eyes" Mihawk.
i can see this happening, as zoro is also part of the worst generation that cabbage hates so much
>people actually think zoro will face an admiral in a serious fight
i reckon luffy is equally matched to doflamingo atm, who is just noticeably below admiral level, and zoro is around the same as vergo. fujitora is gonna pull an aokiji on this one when he realises what the donquixote family is up to.
The fact that you are even referring to the anime and manga in the same category proves that you didn't actually try both. The anime is pure garbage.
Zoro and Fujitora will skirmish for a bit before Fujitora realizes the depths of Doffy's evil and turns the tides. Then he'll say something menacing along the lines of "you won't get away the next time we meet" to Zoro and set up their fight later.
>luffy matched with donflamingo; noticeably below admiral
arent the warlords supposed to be better than this? especially those as powerful in the new world as don?
i mean, mihawk is good enough to fight with shanks, and shanks is powerful enough that the war of the best was ended just by his one ship crew coming in when wb and allies were decimated
shouldnt they be a bigger deal?
1) probably blackbeard or kaidou if you ask me
2) shanks for sure.
3) from who we know, either noland or roger
they are a bigger deal, but the admirals are a bigger deal, otherwise 3 admirals wouldn't nearly be enough to keep tabs on all 7 shichibukai. plus being a warlord is just as much about reputation as strength, like how buggy is east blue-tier strength, but has a yonko-tier rep.
The marines would never have the shichibukai be more powerful than the entire marines. If each one is as strong as an admiral they would be in big trouble.
What's the most ridiculous thing you can think of that you can see Oda writing in the future?
Roger's alive and waiting at Raftel for the first ship who shows up.
monster trio are going to fight the admirals on even ground :'(
i agree, but donflamingo is the underworld king in the new world
shouldnt he have the power to at least defend himself against an admiral (like the brief encounter with aokiji, he just kinda sat there)
it just doesnt make sense that he could make it that far and still be a pushover
Who said he would be a push over?
Someone has another 'heroic sacrifice' and lives with no explanation again.
the gap in history reveals the world government made a deal with the devil to conquer the world
>he gave them devil fruit
>the entire original army had a power
>when they died the powers started seeping out to everybody
pushover for the admirals, evidentally
he is definitely incredibly strong (don't forget he jobbed oars jr, who jobbed a bunch of giant vice admirals), and he could definitely hold his own for a bit against an admiral, and make them tired. although he simply isn;t as strong as an admiral and he would eventually lose somewhat one sided-ly if he tried to fight one. also alot of his power is from his immense wealth & underworld influence.
Being noticeably lower isn't the same as being a pushover. They are still the closest thing to the admirals, and a half step between them and the Vice Admirals.
>who jobbed a bunch of giant vice admirals
They weren't vice admirals.
Since some of the revolutionary army is there, what if Inazuma is there too and just cuts all of his strings.