Seacats ruined mystery for me.
I demand my money back.
Speaking of seacats...
How is Higanbana?
Seacats ruined dating for me.
I only want to deito Lucifer ever since.
Umineko has absolutely nothing to do with mystery. The main points are: The love between Battler and Beato as well as Ange dealing with life.
> I didn't read R07's notes about mystery vs. anti-mystery.
Not him but where can I find those notes? Sounds interesting
Why do everyone wants to deito lucifer?
It's just one anon. Belphegor is best.
Goes into details about how mystery denies itself, etc.
I completely agree.
Yeah, shame on you, you made Leviathan jealous.
Oh please, I bet she wouldn't even agree to get drunk with you and sing along to stupid songs.
Lucifer > Belphegor > Leviathan > Mammon > Satan > Asmodeus > Beelzebub
I've just started The First Night and it so far seems very good. /jp/ likes it.
I've been stuck in episode 7, does Battler (or anyone) get to drink with Lucifer?
Nope, but her personality gives it away that she wouldn't be a stuck up bitch like Belphegor.
I'd date every Stake there is except Satan, Asmodeus and Beelzebub
That not 'every' stake then. But don't worry, I would, [/spoiler:lit]even Satan, Asmodeus, or Beelzebub.[/spoiler:lit]
You can't even use spoilers correctly. I bet you can't treat them right either.
Oh shit, I need to sleep.
The stakes and Kanon have a wild orgy in episode 8.
He even tries to strip Lucifer.
I wonder why R07 likes this outfit so much.
But yours is a steak.
Not that she appreciated it...
maybe he should try a different girl.
That thing looks like fresh out of Mrdor - didn't the stakes look different in the VN / Manga?
That's like, the exact opposite if what seacats was trying to achieve. Ryukishi admitted that in the beginning he wrote it for hardcore mystery buffs.
Yeah he thought up all these great mysteries and then realized he couldn't think up a logical solution so he just gave up and went full retard.
Not quite as good, but some of the stories are quite enjoyable.
Yeah, he wrote it to call them fags.
He was downright like "If you didn't like it, then you didn't get it, and are a loveless goat. Fuck you niggers."
It ruined mystery for me because now whenever I start reading one I go "what if it turns out as shitty as seacats" and quit.
Every thread until we reach the Golden Land.
He didn't give up, you did. He chose not to give out answers because you don't throw pearls before swine. Truth is something precious and not a whore to be stripped, thrown on a bed and forced to give everyone their turn.
Like you actually ponied up any money for it, you faggot.
Without love it cannot be seen.
He chose not to give answers because he doesn't have any because he was making it up as he went along and wrote himself into a corner, then started going "solving mysteries is for fags, you should never have even tried, it was a love story the whole time anyways!" and desperately backpedaled.
The truth was that there was no solution to any of the puzzles. He couldn't give any answers because there never was any to give.
Look who's mad that he couldn't solve anything. Every chapter has its own solution, and if you open the catbox and get Rokkenjima Prime, you'll see the story Bern showed Ange. It's pretty simple stuff.
Great, so what are the solutions?
Make sure that they're inarguable and explicitly stated (not implied) in the text of the series itself, not any supplementary material.
Except for the fact that he published something which gave a brief description of how the murders were carried out.
The details are a bit shaky in the story admittedly, but there's a methodology that's given out.
The solutions are given in episode 7 when Will solves all of the games.
>not seeing through an obvious troll
>still discussing Umineko
I solved Umineko in 2011, everybody can go home. I can't tell you the solution, you have to find it yourself
Either come up with your own answers like every other intelligent fan or scan the archives. If you expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter you missed the point of the story. Notice how Will showed great admiration for the goats that TRIED to solve it? Remember how it you are told again and again that it is solvable?
You paid for it?
Will out-and-out insulted the goats who tried to solve it, and being told that it's solveable isn't the same thing as it actually being solveable, and it certainly isn't a fucking mystery story. Without any way to check your answers answers are worthless.
Sounds more to me like a long-winded way of saying "wouldn't it be funny if there was an unsolvable mystery?"
Yes, since the fictional character told us something it must be true. We should all be more like the goats. Ryukishi was trying to convince himself at this point, I'm not surprised his writing went to shit considering his friend died.
You do know that you're not talking about real people?
What he's saying is that every mystery is unsolvable, by nature.
The details of Umineko are designed around creating a mystery that avoids those problems.
He insulted the goats that used fantasy or who tried denying mystery but he showed admiration to those that tried to solve it.
And ryu07 was probably disappointed in how the reveal of higurashi was exposed to everyone thanks to the internet. You didn't see everyone screaming that the judge was the murderer in 10 little niggers but times have changed. He took an esoteric and allegorical route in umineko which fits in well with the themes presented.
Did anyone else not give two shits about the mystery aspect and simply paid attention to the characters?
You mean the theme that drove the first half of the narrative? Yeah I couldn't give two shits.
I wanted to pay attention to the mystery, but eventually got mesmerized by the aunts and Erika.
Erika is best Umineko.
Get out of here, Ange.
Nothing wrong with that, or? The charas are quite nice.
Excuse me, real protagonist of the story coming through.
Didn't see one in the catalog, so Hamatora thread?
Horriblesubs should be up around now.
Umineko should have always been Beato vs Battler, the moment the story started adding in other outside forces (Bern, Ange, etc.) it went to shit. The premise of Umineko was magic vs mystery, could the murders be explained in a reasonable way? But the author never delivered and decided that we should accept magic, even if it is fake, because it is easier for ourselves and our loved ones.
Also the Shannon, Kannon, Beato explanation was pants on head retarded.
You serious? If it was a simple mystery, there would be no 'meta' anything, because that does nothing but confuse the reader and make them unsure of the solution. I posit that the mystery aspect was simply a vehicle for the themes of the series.
Because she's the hero the Golden Land deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
So, we'll deny her existence, because she can take it. Because she's not our hero. She's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Black Witch.
It was quite clear that ange would play some role in the story, she was mentioned in episode 1, why should they introduce her and then never mention the one who survived the murder again?
Well, of course she could have played a different role, but it was quite clear that she would appear at some point.
Literally the most boner inducing voice. Eva is bitch witch.
Didnt Eva wear pants?
This world needs more Amakusa and Ange.
They really didn't need to include her. As far as I was concerned they were just fleshing out the family. The story should have entirely focused on Rokkenjima.
Lemme open up by saying that Ryukishi's a hack.
Higurashi was crap. It was set up as a psuedo-mystery but it completely fell apart when he suddenly turned into a fantasy series and, out of fucking nowhere, introduced (and I wish I was kidding) an alien-god-demon-ancestor-ghost-worm-disease] who used magical deus ex machina to save everyone. It was bullshit.
Umineko started off decent with the idea of mystery vs fantasy. But then it turned into a meta-narrative open-ended self-masturbatory unsolvable piece of crap. He just shit all over himself, his work and his audience with that.
And then there's Rose Guns Days. It's just embarrassing. He introduces Not-Spike who is exactly like Spike from Cowboy Bebop, but a smug, annoying asshole. The dude is a total Gary Stu who can do no wrong. Fortunately that faggot eventually leaves, but the story just keeps going downhill, and it isn't helped by the flat, boring characters who are written to have no bad qualities (or if they do, it's there solely for the character to overcome). It's a damn shame because Ryukishi's real strength is making interesting and entertaining characters and it just didn't come across.
And Higanabana? Oh boy, Higanbana.
Higanbana is actually pretty damn good. He introduces the magical elements at the beginning so you don't have any genre shifts. There's no retarded never-solved mystery going on. All of the characters are pretty well rounded with a nice bit of depth - none of them are perfect, most have both likable and unlikable elements. And, importantly, the stories were shorter forcing Ryukishi to edit his work down and take out a lot the crap that pads out his other works. In short, it's the best thing he's written, both from a technical perspective and a literary one.
Of all his writing, it's the one thing of his I would actually recommend anyone read.
Higanbana is great. I love how they dumbed down the genre presentation for the idiots who keep thinking Ryukishi writes mystery.
Didn't the guy who actually wrote Umineko and Higurashi died? Ryukishi's friend or something.
No. That guy helped with story planning and editing and did a little writing. Ryukishi was the primary writer and idea guy.
That's basically what I did.
It's a deconstruction of the mystery genre etc, etc.
Prepare for When they Cry in SPAAAACE
Stakes in Space... hm..
but .. they have red shirts! They will all DIE!!! REDSHIRTS!
After Higurashi I assumed that the magic was actually real. So I didn't pay too much attention to the mystery elements.
Fan-fucking-tastic girls though.
>2014 >Still beling a complete fucking goat who has no love and therefore can't see a goddamn thing
Good work missing the entire point of the story chief.
What do you think you are DOING?
And why are you not doing it with ME?
>The aunts will never wear swimsuits for you
>You will never fall asleep on Aunt Natsuhi's comfy lap
>You will never get your back washed by Aunt Rosa while her breast squeeze against your back
>You will never be served quality food from Aunt Eva wearing only an apron
>You will never receive a relaxing massage from Aunt Kyrie after a stressful day.
What is the point of living?
And now I'm hungry for steak. Thanks a lot man.
Cause there is more chest to tape on Ange?
That is IRRELIVANT.
You should do such things with nobody but ME.
If I catch such a scene AGAIN...
You will die the DEATH.
have a burger.
Eva's face makes her looking like she's fucking dripping wet aver being able to serve like this for Battler.
You call that boner-inducing?
Are you off your meds?
You gay son?
Are you? It sounded like Accelerator with the pitch turned up.
OK there are better uses for duct tape anyway...
I got the theory that Erika is the meta-gameboard representation of TRUE END Ange.
Then again this thing is too convulted and 2metaphorical4me to make any ends of it.
What really pissed me off is how they urged us to solve everything and then went lolnope you're a goat,
You know I've formatted my drive and along with it all of my Ferika images, but I must say that I will always agree with you.
Where's my Erica detective-adventure-pirate-rape game? CDProjekt pls.
>You didn't see everyone screaming that the judge was the murderer in 10 little niggers
Thanks a lot you fucking son of a bitch.
KRAUSS WAS RIGHT
"YOU'RE A FOOL" THEY SAID
"BUYING LAND ON THE MOON IS RETARDED" THEY SAID
I really hope there will be some reference that.
Something like "Apparently a Japanese investor had great faith in space and invested lots into exploring it. Whatever happened to him anyway?"
Thanks for spoiling me, Obama.
That makes too much sense to not be the case.
I want to cuddle with beato.
I want to be in a relationship with Rosa so I can be Maria's stepfather and slowly get Rosa to stop being such a shit mother. Then I'd do her in the butt.
>Doing Maria in the butt
>Rosa being a bad mother
I hope you never have children because you obviously have no idea how to raise them.
BEST OTP. BEST COUPLE
NO OTHER COUPLE NEED APPLY
I wouldn't dream of touching Maria's derrière. We're talking about Rosa's rosy cheeks here.
Rosa was a bad person before being a bad mother so I'd fix that first.
>Rosa's rosy cheeks
Awww, I was hoping for 'Rosa's cheeky cheeks'
You can't fool me, Maria-butt-doer. I'll expose your plan for the lewdness it really is!
Stop spreading mean rumours! Maria's butt cavern is 100% safe with me.
>>>/You want to do Maria in the butt. The fact that you can't bring proof against this is all the more fact that you want to snuggle your meat stick in her buns/
Not him, but I do. I want to show her what being an adult is like with my meaty magic wand. Anally.
Well, that's fine. At least you're honest about it.
Also, Erika/Dlanor: Great love, or GREATEST love?
Best love. Especially the non-h doujins.
Which is a damn shame, becuase it started out pretty well. Until the end of ep6 it was good. Then the yasu bullshit began.
Yeah, you can see the effect it had. I hear he he religious, which would explain the bias towards the magic ending, where everyone lives happily ever after in the golden land and they arent just dead.
After losing loved one, I can see that being on his mind a bit.
That fake red proves that I don't lust over Maria's pooper.
Considering magic ending is pretty much blaming everything on Beato the witch and making all the inhabitants of Rokkenjima innocent as snow.
Considering how much battler refused to admit that any one that he knew would be able to commit such crimes I can't help but to think that such an ending was way too convenient for him.
The witch did it. You don't have to worry about anything. Everyone was a great person.
A conclusion like that doesn't sit well with me to be honest. But this is nothing new and has been said over and over, r07 can't finish things for jack.
Oh well. Here's hoping that we get to see Erika in space.
>Everything was magic
>Everyone lived happily ever after in the golden land
The end motherfuckers
IT WASN'T STATE IN RED, YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT HAPPENED.
suck it nerd
Battler and Beato's relationship was the most interesting part.
Everyone can refer to everyone in a different group somewhere else.
Everything was magic can refer to everything once being magic but not anymore.
'In the golden land' could be a metaphor for heaven.
>not golden truth
Come on dude it took me long enough to write all that ;_;
I'm sorry anon but mystery over anons.
Enjoy being a mindless goat who will never know love.
>out of fucking nowhere, introduced (and I wish I was kidding) an alien-god-demon-ancestor-ghost-worm-disease]
Did you read the VN because it really don't come out of nowhere.
The strength of Higurashi was that it builds a insane background conspiracy demon predicting village fate death murder cult red herring and then slowly deconstructs it by showing that no one was actually behind the scenes.
The worm (can't even believe you're saying this since it's a parasite, not a fucking worm) only drives people slightly paranoid. This is the reason you get a POV reading from both of the three perspective who do go insane. You follow each of their madness as they don't just go *click* and turn insane overnight but they slowly go completely insane until they go to the point of committing murder.
Though I do agree with you that there was not much in terms of being able to solve the mystery. A lot of hints here and there about suspicious people but not fully enough to point to it.
>But then it turned into a meta-narrative open-ended self-masturbatory unsolvable piece of crap.
I was recently reading a textbook on mystery novel concerning Agatha Christie and there was a mention concerning And Then There Where None by some of the purist who bitched that the one flaw in the whole thing was that she should not have given the answer at the end. And it's basically mentioned in ep 7 too. Ryukishi just did his own version of the story and simply didn't give an answer. It really makes me wonder what would have happened if Agatha did the same and no answer was given. With all of it ending on a ''what the fuck just happened'' ending with the girl committing suicide.
Rose Guns Days is decently fun but I do agree with you on Ledo being a damn annoyance and the nationalism really getting on my nerves.
Higanbana really is a good piece with short stories working very well with only the story with the girl with the eyepatch being meh in my eyes.
>but it completely fell apart when he suddenly turned into a fantasy series and, out of fucking nowhere, introduced (and I wish I was kidding) an alien-god-demon-ancestor-ghost-worm-disease]
Except parasites like that actually exist, anon.
And besides, most of that was to trick the reader into not knowing who to believe about what, since aliens, demons, parasites, and other possibilities were all brought up as well.
Who's to say the Parasite theory is correct, anyway?
The existence of the parasite exist, it's already been confirmed, no point using Devil's proof on this.
Although, the existence that the parasites explain why Buddha or Jesus became influential has yet to be correctly proven.
I'm not arguing their existance, I'm arguing t hat it's still possible that they're not the cause (or sole cause) of people's insanity. Besides, like R07 himself said, he could write a story later that says exactly this and it'd be the new truth.
You know, I had a thought recently that's pretty stupid but I wonder if there's any claim to it.
Everyone keeps bitching how Ryukishi went retarded after ep 5 and then explained Yasu was behind the whole thing.
And this is really stupid but what if the entire half portion of Umineko was the Queen Theory but in reverse.
What if Ryukishi purposefully create a bunch of bullshit that was unconnected to the rest of the first 5 episodes and then forcefully fed it to the reader to see if they would eat it or not.
I mean, he can change anything, so why not see how far you can create a fake bullshit, add a good bit of tragedy and name it the killer.
It always made me wonder because I recently reread Umineko again and there really isn't a lot of pointing towards Yasu anywhere except if you're looking for it because you interpret it that way. Evidence changes if you want it to look at it in a certain way rather than let evidence form opinions, it turns into theory influencing the validity of the evidence.
The new truth really only works if it makes sense with the story.
For example, if Ryukishi said that aliens came and turns back time even though we've never been shown that it exist, we'd have to accept it as fact, since he's the writer, but who's to say it isn't a false lie that can also be changed later too? Argh, stupid idea but it really makes me think that Ryukishi knew what he was doing and saying ''his friend died and he had a breakdown'' really just seeks to find a solution and blame by using his personal life rather than what is in the story itself.
Hahah. Now that's a laugh.
Murder... mystery... closed room.... referencing mystery novels...
Gee, I wonder.
>implementing other genres traits defines the book genre
It's a romance featuring mystery. Just because it has few riddles doesn't make it a mystery novel.
This is honestly what I thought the entire moral behind Umineko was. There was so much emphasis on "truth", but also things brought up that contradict truth (i.e. catboxes and the bottled notes) that I figured it was about truth in and of itself in a way like this.
R07's strongest suit is creating and developing interesting characters. Love Umineko or hate it, no one will ever bitch that any character didn't get at least some sort of development.
He just has a hard time with overly complex plots.
Except George. George a shit.
Well, he had something. I swear.
Not to mention the part where Featherine says she'll stop reading after ep 5 now that Battler is the gamemaster and that ''reading any further would be like reading a mystery backwards''.
I always wondered what it mean but now that I think about it, it sort of makes sense.
It's basically the answer working it's way into proving itself true,
For example, if Shannon is having a bad day and Kanon comes to tell her that some other servant is shit and Natsuhi is very cruel, add Yasu into the picture and it suddenly becomes Shannon transferring her rage.
Even though nothing changed, the way you see the event changes and it becomes and self evident proof that doesn't technically prove anything.
Or that Shannon was feeling disturbed when hearing about George wanting kids even though, if you look back at the scene, Shannon is very open and happy about the idea. How do you go from a viewpoint from which a person is happy to hear that the person she loves wants to have kids to be scared to death about finding the truth? The Queen Theory does that and does it very well.
I dunno, maybe it's nothing but I find it interesting.
The detective inside the game board did not fall in love. All is permitted outside of it. A murderer can love the detective but there must not be a love story where the detective goes in love with whomever, that distracts the plot.
It's a mystery, that's all there is to it.
All his characters, at least those with sprites, are all great in their own way.
I always find it funny that people think that characters have some sort of character development when most of his characters, at least in the WtC series, are in a loop.
It's more the reader finding out more about the characters as he/she reads them over and over and start to love them.
With everything resetting, it's hard for things to have development but Ryukishi somehow does it.
My more envious on how he writes females. In Rose Guns Days, he keeps going on and on about how he cracked the formula for understanding the women psyche and I truly think that he did crack it and understands them.
I just look at all his female characters and they feel more human than most females in most mediums.
George was the typical virgin closed off faggot that goes all about how friendzone sucks and women all suck for not loving him.
George was made to be hated, he was such a insufferable little shit but then suddenly he's kicking witch ass and being the perfect lover-boy with no faults.
Remove the meta.
He just went up to have a chat with the killer and got shot.
Fuck George. There's what, more than 50 characters that all have sprites and he's easily the worst one. It makes me want to make a ranking of every single character, just so he can be below Kasumi, Ange's classmates, and All the Goats. Fuck, even below Featherine.
Reminder that the Stakes will never get the proper amount of good-looking fanart pictures they deserve.
Seacats actually got me into mystery novels so it's not totally worthless.
Same here. Ended up reading a shitton of Agatha Christie right after episode 5 or 6.