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How come shonen battle manga protagonist always have to be super special?

The bloodline of a hero, some super special skill he was never aware of, untapped potential, etc.

Why not regular joe doing courageous things?
>>
Japan doesn't like common people. You have to be born into special status or it doesn't really count.
>>
No idea. Japanese manga and videogames love the idea of being born special instead of some normal guy training so hard he becomes the best.
>>
>>101852310
>shonen battle manga
Because watching the MC getting his face punched in gets old after a while.
>>
This is why I love One-punch Man, you would expect he was hit by some magic stone or something but nope, pure effort.

And even on the top of the power rankings he's still a regular joe at heart.
>>
History's Strongest Diciple was just some guy who trained iirc.
>>
>>101852541
And his face gets punched in often.

So the series needed several experienced type characters who are super special to keep the tension going, otherwise it'd get boring.
>>
most kid's shows are like that
>>
There has to be something that serves as a barrier to being a hero. If it just took hard work to be great, it'd be even less believable than special abilities. Japanese readers are mostly people who slaved their asses off to become nothing but "side characters" in the starting town. Showing effort and guts with no extra bullshit needed to succeed will just remind them about how their boss treated those effort and guts at the last meeting.
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>>101852310
>dat char design

I can't remember how many times I jacked off to Hunter and Alchemist.
>>
Because most writers are too stupid to write regular joe doing big things.
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>>101853368
Pre 3rd job ragnarok had the best designs, it had the fantasy feel down and proper.

Look at Crusader, then look at Paladin, then look at what comes up after.
What's the point of making the female skimpy? They're gonna be in pixel form!
>>
Kenichi has NO talent whatsoever
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>>101852310
>Why not regular joe doing courageous things?

Because this implies hard work and lots of sweat until you get what you want, which is the complete opposite them expect from their form of entertainment.
>>
>>101853368
Munak >Blacksmith = Dancer > Sage = Wizard > Hunter > Priest = Knight >>>> Crusader

Assasin a shit
>>
>How come shonen battle manga protagonist always have to be super special?

All sports manga is like this as well (sports is a sub-genre of shonen after all).

>MC has innate (but unrefined) god-tier skill which makes him a world-class competitor by default
>MC needs a mentor to help him refine that skill through a series of frustrating and subtle hints
>"To think I would meet such a person in a place like this..."
>The MC needs a single crushing loss and then he can awaken to his true potential
>other than his god given talent, the only training he will require is "running while dragging an old tire"
>he will learn the rest on his own during competition, and sometimes these additional abilities manifest as "awoken skills".
>>
>>101852310
The opposite can also be incredibly boring. It's a matter of execution.
>Character has no special traits or latent abilities, always outdoes their opponent flawlessly due to them being better equipped, highly skilled and always having the perfect plan to dispose of them.


I'd like my highly skilled killing machine to fuck up at least ONCE during the entire show just to show if they're any good at thinking on their feet.
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>>101853822
Sounds like you've been reading only crap.
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>>101853721
>>101853368
Blacksmith was one of my very first faps.
I think she also gave me my hotpants fetish.
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>>101853856
I just said it's a matter of execution. So yes, I have in fact read a lot of crap, mostly at /a/'s recommendation.
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>>101853856
The point is that no one likes a series of flawless victories due to
>muh skill
>>
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These hips
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>>101853924
I would have to think for a while to get even a few battle shonen titles with such a perfect MC.
I guess Prince of Tennis and Akagi would count, but they are not battle shonen.
Pretty much all protagonists fuck up at least once. And without exception they will get into tight spots at times.
>>
LeeMyungJin should make a proper Ragnarok manhwa, the original manhwa was shit.
Make one based off the game.
>>
What is Kenichi? for 200
>>
That's one of the things I hate about the Big 3, with Naruto being the worst offender.

Bleach started with a normal guy who got those shinigami powers. Then suddenly he was the son of a shinigami captain, of a quincy, and was also half hollow because of fuckery.

One Piece started with a strong guy that had a rubber body. But then his grandfather was that really damn strong guy from the marines, his father was the most wanted man in the world, his "brother" was the son of the strongest and most famous pirate in the world, and he has the most rare type of hakki.

Then you have Naruto.
He was a kid who was hated by everyone, was dumb and had a demon inside of him that could fuck everyone up.
Then he got trained by one of the most special ninjas in the world, then he was the son of the most special hokage, his mother had a really special chakra that can be used to control his demon who was the most special of them all, he was the special person from the special prophecy and everything and everyone around him is the most special snowflake that ever lived.
>>
>>101854138
He's too busy actually working on the game.
>>
Is Tree of Savior out yet?
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>>101854198
The game is shit, the entire franchise is shit now.
And he's not even doing the art anymore.
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>>101854195
>and he has the most rare type of hakki.
That's just a manifestation of his will.
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>>101854195
>Big 3
>expecting good writing

Granted, One Piece might still excel at something else but writing but still
>>
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>>101854349
>Shit 4
>HxH
>Sengoku Youko
Woah son, hold it right there. That shit's so wrong that I can't just let you walk away.
I agree on Vagabond and Vinland Saga being in Grand 4, though.
>>
What about Yu Yu Hakusho?
>>
>>101854195
>Rock Lee
I'm still mad about all the lessons the anime preached about hard work when fucking Naruto magically obtained his shit without effort.
>Boohoo sweet-ass demon powers is a bad thing
>>
>>101852310
Because there's this thing called "chuuni".
>>
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RO thread? RO thread
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>>101854457
That's something that was made to spite SY, Magi, OP and HxH fans I reckon. There was that other image that was praising those 4 as being the best.
>>
Because normal people are boring. Its better to see a person who trains to gain super human strength, or, gain powers through other means. Shonen battle manga is all about being super powerful to do battle against other super powered beings. If you want to see regular joes duking it out then just watch Boxing.
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How come we don't play RO anymore, /a/?
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>>101854195
Naruto was especially bad considering how much it preached hard work over genius.

Anyway I like a good story about Joe Normal that was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its usually less about fighting some bad guy and more just trying not to die.
>>
>>101854195
>had a demon inside of him that could fuck everyone up.
Why are the japs so fond of the "teenager has a demon/monster sealed inside of him" cliche?
>>
>>101854723
>Naruto was especially bad considering how much it preached hard work over genius.

Exactly. The entire fight against Negi was that.
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>>101852310
>Why not regular joe doing courageous things?
Jonathan Joestar was still pretty regular, despite the whole SONO CHI NO SADAME deal.
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What about manga where protagonists actually lose something important.

Like something that impacts how they fight (not something that just powers them up like loss of some random innocent).
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>>101854736
I don't mind so much when the demon is something they can never control.
>>
>>101854742
The fight against Negi was the thing that pissed me off the most.

Negi: It doesn't matter how hard you train. All that matters is what what you're born with.

Naruto: NO, I'LL PROVE YOU WRONG.

[Negi destroys Naruto's chakra points using his lineage powers and renders him useless]

Naruto: NO!

[Naruto gains new chakra from the devil fox inside of him]

Naruto: See? Hard work overcomes!

No, you faggot, you just proved Negi's point. You only beat him cause you were born with even better magic skills.
>>
>>101854815
>Jonathan Joestar
No, dude. No.
>>
>>101853767
Akagi didn't do that, in fact none of the older Mahjong manga did.
>>
>>101854742
>>101854850
Naruto would have been so much fucking better if it was actually "The Adventures of Rock Lee: Pure Striking against bullshit Chakra"
>>
>>101854715
We're still playing on Limit.
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>>101854815
Oh right, so that explains how he mastered the skill of harmon in an instant.
>>
>>101854859
He was a perfectly normal British nobleman.
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>>101854882
I might have liked it more if it was just about ninja kids and they kept the city busting kage level ninjas in the background. But no, mc needs to be strongest there is.
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>>101854873
Yeah, because his godlike skill didn't need refining.

>>101854882
Kishimoto, man. Good side-characters, bad everything else
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>>101854873
Some guy taught him the basic rules and he immediately managed to destroy a "professional" player.
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>>101852310
One-Punch Man? He become that strong by just doing push-ups, right?
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>>101854715
We still have a guild in LimitRO run by /a/nons from when RO threads were still in /a/ before /vg/ was made.

But if you don't like renewal you can play with /vg/ but they're awful to play with
>>
>>101854484
but yusuke turned out to be the descendent of one of the 3 demon kings
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>>101854946
Perfectly built big enough to carry 4 men around with him.
Completely normal in that his special ability was absolutely exceptional.
Yep.
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>>101854349
>comparing seinen and shonen series
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>>101854873
Pretty sure that tetsuya did most of those things.
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Because series get progressively more extreme and if your MC isn't special, chances are he will lose against people who are special.
Nobody wants to see Krillin.

pic unrelated, shonen with normal people
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>>101855005
I thought most of /a/ moved over to TERA?
>>
There is MAR. The MC is pretty damn weak by Earth standard but the world he was sent to is even weaker.
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>>101855045
Boshu taught him cheating from the ground up.
Tetsu was just a decent player who couldn't stack if his life depended on it.
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>>101853767
Hikaru no Go had him start off as a complete novice. It's just his drive and his insanely skilled mentor that allow him to reach where he is.
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>>101855054
I really loved how they reversed the performer/technician dynamic.
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>>101853767
>>101854873
Akagi did it, but it was trivial that it didn't even matter. Pretty sure One Outs didn't do it AT ALL
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>>101855058
there are people who play TERA, there are people who play RO and there are people who play FFXIV etc etc.

if you want to play RO with /a/nons go to limit.
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>>101855094
Hikaru went to professional level in record time.
There was another kid who was described as exceptional for how quickly he learned.
Hikaru needed half as much time to best him.
>>
>ITT: We miss you, Mx0
>>
>>101855058
They probably did. There are like 8 of the old /a/ players still on Limit and some new guys.
>>
>>101855087
[x]MC has innate (but unrefined) god-tier skill which makes him a world-class competitor by default
[x]MC needs a mentor to help him refine that skill through a series of frustrating and subtle hints
[?]"To think I would meet such a person in a place like this..."
[x]The MC needs a single crushing loss and then he can awaken to his true potential
[]other than his god given talent, the only training he will require is "running while dragging an old tire"
[x]he will learn the rest on his own during competition, and sometimes these additional abilities manifest as "awoken skills".
>>
>>101855107
Yeah, but One Outs was more gambling than sports anyway.
>>
>>101852310
Because only special people actually achieve important things, in real life too.
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>>101855142
>MC has innate (but unrefined) god-tier skill which makes him a world-class competitor by default
He was a decent mahjong player, but nowhere near exceptional.

>MC needs a mentor to help him refine that skill through a series of frustrating and subtle hints
Boshu taught it to him without any stupid garbage, he just showed him how to do it.

>"To think I would meet such a person in a place like this..."
Doesn't really apply here at all.

>The MC needs a single crushing loss and then he can awaken to his true potential
He constantly loses and quite a few of them are shown too.

>he will learn the rest on his own during competition, and sometimes these additional abilities manifest as "awoken skills".
He never did anything Boshu hasn't taught him.
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>>101855054
>Nobody wants to see Krillin.
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>>101855129
When you have the ghost of the greatest Go player's instructor living in your head, it'd be hard not to progress. But yeah, I agree. He got some lucky breaks that allowed him to progress so fast though.
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>>101855136
Fucking Mx0, man.
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>>101855225
what is this
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>>101855224
>He never did anything Boshu hasn't taught him.
Now that's just a straight out lie.
Boshu made him do a lot of things that he didn't teach. Did you forget about all the "if you can't figure out how to beat them on your own then you can go fuck yourself" that he pulled?
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>>101855304
Right that, was that with the soldiers?
>>
>>101852338
>>101852310
I really don't get the nips mentality for this? Isn't Japan all about for the community and anti individuality? Wouldn't shonen works be a determinant to people teaching people that the only way to advance in life is to be born with super powers or in this case be born with the right genes?
>>
tfw Ippo technically had a talent for punching
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>>101855300
A shit manga.
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>>101855342
But Kamogawa refined the fuck out of that talent by telling him to punch harder.
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>>101855005
>>101854898
>renewal
Why did they have to make the 3rd job sprites so ugly?
That creator-> genetic, man.
>>
>>101852310
>>101852387
>>
>>101853767
>MC has innate (but unrefined) god-tier skill which makes him a world-class competitor by default

I'm pretty sure the assumption is, in fact, that everyone has some talent of his own, or otherwise something one does more naturally than other things; and the draw of a series is more that of a person discovering his own nature, acting in accordance with it and succeeding in his own goals thanks to it.

While battle series are, of course, a staple of the class, you see the same thing all around, from Nodame to Sankarea to Hikaru no Go and whatnot.
>>
>>101855337
Don't listen to trolls.

We are talking about battle shonen, ie comics for children about combat.

You think any kid is interested in that dude with glasses and no special skills trying his best but usually losing?
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>>101855394
But Pikachu is very special.
Also it's not like Ash actually does anything of note in the show.
His best league finish was top 8 or something and he only wins filler arcs.
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>>101855394
Ash is always the chosen one in the movies.

Good thing he always fail at league.
>>
>>101855414
Didn't that work with Rock Lee?
>>
>>101855390
Lord Knights turned into hobos.
Stalkers turned into Final Fantasy characters.
Assassin Cross turned into that one guy from the manwha (Loki was it?).
I don't even know what they were thinking when they designed the Creators and Warlocks.

It's just awful.
>>
>>101852310
Because being courageous wouldn't get anywhere by itself, you would just die on the first fight.
>>
>>101855446
Why can't they just move on to a new guy? BeyBlade and Yugioh does it all the time and they're also a kids show.
>>
>>101855479
>Rock Lee
>no special skill
Yeah, no.
>>
>>101855513
Beyblade and Yugioh are little more than a fart compared to the brand recognition Pokemon, Ash and Pikachu have.
>>
>>101852310
Gilgamesh was 2/3 God. It ain't exactly new stuff.
>>
>>101855054
You don't need the normal guy to be constrained by our reality. It can still be someone that does cool shit like running on walls and jumping 10 feet in the air, but you establish that as something that everyone can train and learn.

The point is, the story is still about people training and overcoming obstacles, not about having unfair powers they were born with and no one else has.
>>
>>101855614
That creates a plot hole. If everyone can do it, then why is the protagonist at the top?
It's like with Hajime no Ippo. The mangaka is trying to sell Ippo as a normal guy who just trains a lot, but everybody knows that Ippo is fucking special.
>>
>>101855491
Is there no way to mod in trans job sprites for 3rd job ones?
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>>101855614
But it's not cool if everyone can do it. Not to mention if you confine yourself to strictly 'normal' characters, things can get boring pretty fast. Special abilities are fun and allow for more varied and interesting fights.
>>
>>101855614
Couldn't you consider a guy who is born extremely smart but with no super powers just as unfair as someone who is born with super powers?

You either get someone with no super powers but is extremely smart or someone who is so powerful. Either way there will never be a middle ground because quite frankly that would defeat the entire purpose of shonen manga which is to brain wash youths into believing if they just "try" hard enough they'll become "super heroes".

No different from living with false hope and gambling.
>>
Naoki Urasawa's male MCs in 20th Century Boys and Monster are pretty normal. But his female MCs are speshul snowflakes.
>>
>>101855763
Neither of those things are shonen battle manga.
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>>101855654
>then why is the protagonist at the top?
It doesn't have to be this way.
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>>101855803
He has to win a lot or the manga won't sell.
Remember, we're talking about shonen.
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>>101855803
Then why is the protagonist not dead?
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>>101854349
Now I think about it In magi Aladdin is a super special snowflake but Alibaba gets less and less special with each chapter
The mangaka just loves trolling him
>>
Because he's smarter and more resilient than everyone else.
>>
>>101855679
Not "everyone can do it" but "everyone can do it if they train hard enough"

You know how some people literally were built strong and trained so hard they can now literally bend coins with their fingers? Same deal with the MC, but he can jump across buildings and take way more punishment than intended.
>>
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>there are people over the age of 12 following shonen battle manga

no excuse for that sort of behaviour
not saying all shonen can't be enjoyable for older people but battle is really for the 6-12 year old crowd

inb4 wan piss
>>
>>101855947
well then he's special because he trains harder than everyone else
>>
>You will never play Ragnarok Online for the first time again in your life.
>>
>>101855973
>inb4 wan piss
inb4 doesn't work that way.
If you know One Piece is going to be used as an argument, either await it and respond, or preemptively explain why it's a moot point.
>>
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>>101852466

You don't actually read OPM, do you? You don't become the strongest man in the known world by working out and becoming bald.
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>>101855973
You probably shouldn't use a reaction picture of a battle shonen while saying that.
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>>101855300
Medaka Box.

The title character can be insufferable but the rest is great after the first two arcs. Especially when zenkichi and side characters are in the spot light.
>>
>>101855973
Hajime no Ippo is a sport/battle shounen and it's enjoyable.
>>
>>101853767
MC of Baby Steps doesnt really have any special talent. He is hard worker and a really diligent guy.
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>>101856072
LNs are not shonen. Log Horizon is not primarily a battle story.
>>
>>101855973
Well people do read manga because it's escapism. No different from drugs or alcohol. Think what would happen if people realized that life is nothing more than rolling and dice and hard work doesn't always mean you'll succeed? People would start to kill themselves and then you would be left with a lower population that now has no one to do the undesirable works in society such as being the garbage man and/or a server.
>>
>>101856098
Zenkichi is the main character.
>>
>>101855973
I watch precure and follow battle shounen.

Sorry we aren't all into only following deep works such as Cowboy Bebop and Space Dandy.
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>>101856108
>LNs are not shonen.
Of course Light Novels can be shonen, it just depends if they are aimed at the shonen demographic or not. And Log Horizon is definitely aimed at them.
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>>101856154
No, he's a zero that tries to be a main character.
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>>101856108
Most LNs are for early teens, the demographics are similar
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>>101856200
That's Kumagawa, although he's closer to trying to fuck main characters over.
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>>101856173
Precure has cute girl appeal, so it's okay.
>>
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Emiya wasn't too terribly special. He doesn't fit the qualification as entirely normal but given his surroundings and circumstances, the only thing special about him is his lack of respect for himself.
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>>101856276
Art thou quite earnest?
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>>101855742
>the entire purpose of shonen manga which is to brain wash youths into believing if they just "try" hard enough they'll become "super heroes"
Just like the purpose of western superheroes was to brainwash youths into the same thing?
>>
>>101856276
>m-muh hero complex
>m-muh super special projection magic
>>
>>101856363
The same could be said of all mediums such as books and movies and it isn't a west vs east thing. They're all forms of escapism which purpose is to give you false hope throughout your life. That's why you still have humans who cling to morality and the concept of right and wrong; good and evil.
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>>101856276
He became a hero and came from the future to commit paradox suicide.

That's pretty fucking special.
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>>101854898
Remmy pls
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>>101856276
Besides this >>101856430 , didn't he have Excalibur's scabbard inside him?
>>
>>101856020
you can play renewal for the first time though

it's fun
>>
>>101856430

Projection isn't special. It's an extremely basic magic that's a step after Tracing. Rin badgers him on multiple occasions about having such a shitty teacher that only taught him how to do the most basic magic.

>>101856515

I don't see why circumstances of the holy grail war make him any less of a normal person. My point is--and correct me if I'm wrong, the reason of the thread--Shirou is a normal person forced into extraordinary situations.
>>
>>101856578
ugly*
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>>101856588
Sure, but the way he uses it is really damn special.
>>
>>101856588
Not that anon, but wasn't Shirou's projection/tracing super unique or something?
>>
>>101855108
Does anyone play Aion at all?
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>>101856588
He's got a fucking reality marble. He ain't normal.
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>>101856621
it's not that bad, you can get used to it
RG, wizards, rangers and female stalkers look great
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>>101856633
His method of training too. Every time he did it he was, unknowingly, risking his life.
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>>101856727
>>
>>101856002
Yeah. So? That's different from being the chosen one.
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>>101856633

No. It's a basic form of magic. He was able to use it in extraordinary situations because of his environment and experience. For instance he was able to project Excalibur due to his link with Saber and her memory and experience.

>>101856739

I don't see how this is any different from other "normal" folks who have to compete in high-power or high-magic worlds. Risking your life as a normal person is the only edge you have over special people.
>>
>>101857066
I meant the way he uses it to copy legendary weapons.
>>
Tokage no Ou.
The MC has a power however, the ability to change the color of his eyes.
>>
>>101857066
What about those hollow projections that last indefinitely?
>>
>>101857134

In Fate his mind became linked with King Arthur. Through her memory and experience, he was able to summon her blade. In the other routes, he held a portion of the body (thus magic circuits and experiences due to Nasuverse physics) of his future Mind of Steel self.

>>101857332

Shirou can't keep any magical item pulled out of time projected for more than a few minutes. Mundane items created from prana are mundane. It's normal.

Listen guys. I didn't expect to have a Q&A session about Fate. If you care, stop being a secondary.
>>
>>101857066
>No. It's a basic form of magic. He was able to use it in extraordinary situations because of his environment and experience. For instance he was able to project Excalibur due to his link with Saber and her memory and experience.
Projection is a high level skill, to begin with. It's just not used because it takes a lot of prana just to produce a mundane object. Shirou uses Tracing, a higher version of Projection, to fight. And his affinity is pretty fucking special to begin with.

>>101857534
>Listen guys. I didn't expect to have a Q&A session about Fate. If you care, stop being a secondary.
Pffffft.
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>>101856465
I thought its purpose was to entertain.
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>>101857735
The only way to entertain us is to take our minds of the horrible truths that are our lives.
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>>101857623

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Gradation_Air

Stop embarrassing yourself. Projection is a waste of time for any real mage. It's just the only thing Emiya knows how to do.

It's only through Shirou's diligent training and lack of self worth that he's ironically able to survive.
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>>101857534
>Mundane items created from prana are mundane. It's normal.

From what I remember, it isn't normal at all, which is why Rin was so shocked at seeing a shed full of projections.
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>>101857964

You remember her shock but you don't remember why?

She was shocked at how he produced a new magic circuit as opposed to opening existing ones every time he Traced in his daily practice. It's shocking because it's horribly life-threatening and the entire reason Magi pass down their magic circuits through their family.
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>>101857868
>Stop embarrassing yourself. Projection is a waste of time for any real mage. It's just the only thing Emiya knows how to do.
I never argued against that, you chucklefuck.

Also,
>Projection (Trace Version)
>Projection (Trace Version) (投影(トレース版), ?) is the personal variation of Gradation Air that Shirou Emiya and Archer use, referred as Tracing due the unique aria, "Trace On", that is used for its activation. Tracing greatly differs from normal Projection in the fact that not only does it reproduce the shape and substance of an object, but also its entire history as well. Objects created with tracing are slightly inferior due to the fact that only so much information can be gathered by sight alone, and Noble Phantasms are degraded by an entire rank. The only exception to this is Avalon, which Shirou can replicate perfectly due to his body preserving a complete record of it after having been fused with it for over a decade. Objects need to be seen directly in order to be traced, as even with a blueprint and materials, The Jeweled Sword of Zelretch was impossible to trace. Objects seen through shared memories, such as The Jeweled Sword of Zeltrach and Caliburn seen through Justeaze Lizrich von Einzbern and Saber's eyes can be properly traced.

>basic form of magic
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>>101858182
>You remember her shock but you don't remember why?
>She was shocked at how he produced a new magic circuit as opposed to opening existing ones every time he Traced in his daily practice. It's shocking because it's horribly life-threatening and the entire reason Magi pass down their magic circuits through their family.
You idiot, that wasn't the only reason. Projections fade away almost immediately because they are recognized by the world as incomplete. Shirou had projections that lasted for fucking months.
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Shounen = made for kids with active imaginations.

If you want regular joe doing courageous things, look up seinen. Its pretty ignorant of you to criticize kids shows as not being mature/realisitc.
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>>101855136
Goddamn it, it completely excelled at that shit.

MC is literally a nigga who got into a magic school without any magical ability whatsoever, and the nigga wins through guts and schemes.

Fucking great.
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>>101856145
>Well people do read manga because it's escapism
>>
>TypeMoon cocksuckers ruin a thread yet again
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>>101855973
As another person said, its escapcism. Whether it be anime/manga/games/tv/hobby/drugs, its all escapicism from the harsh reality.
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>>101858785
H-he started it, I just didn't like how he kept acting superior even though his knowledge of the source material is wrong
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>>101858785

I realize now it was a mistake to try to answer questions. I thought since there were basic misunderstandings, I could answer in basic ways. I didn't expect a couple twats try to nitpick until we weren't even talking about the original point or anything meaningful for that matter.
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>>101859095
We're still talking about the original point. Shirou is not just some normal person. His way of projection was not normal, he had a rare affinity and he had the potential for a fucking reality marble.
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>>101852310
One punch man.
>Saitama
>Licenseless rider
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>>101859259
I haven't read your argument, guys, but I'm pretty sure Shirou WAS a normal person and Kiritsugu gave him the Avalon and that's how he became special.

His talents on the other side are the result of plenty hard work and shit. Yes, he's special, but nowhere near as special as other main characters and for most of the part his situation is justified
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>>101852310
That image. My heart can't stand that nostalgia attack
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>>101860052
>not actively playing RO with a close-knit guild of players you've known for years and owning any server you decide to play
Please.
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>peasant servant working his way up to general with sheer tenacity, hard work and luck

Doesn't this fit your criteria?
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>>101861760
Kingdom is seinen and OP wants shounen (probably because he's retarded and doesn't know demographics aren't genre)
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>>101854349
>implying Bleach is not well written
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>>101863831
Bleach has writing?
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Ippo does this since he has the natural talent of a hard puncher, but he gets pitted against other extremely talented people. For instance a guy who can punch halfway across the ring, a boxer who throws 50 punches per second and an amateur world champion. He overcomes the gap with his hard work and tenacity.



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