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http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2008-03-11

Look at this questions ...

>>Based on what you're saying, it sounds to me that it started out with a certain level of ethicality to it. You drop a show when it gets licensed, you don't really leap on shows that you know are going to be licensed, to the point where it's become increasingly unethical and it's been pushed to the point where everything is fair game.

>>So based on what we've all seen – and we've all seen this, it's not a myth or a baseless opinion – the anime industry appears to be in trouble. It might be on the brink.

>>Knowing that what you're doing... would you be willing to say that what you're doing doesn't have any real net positive effect on the business of anime?

>>So why do you continue to do what you do knowing that it's having a negative impact on the people who create the anime you like?
>>
tl;dr
>>
heres an animeNewsflash, Zac is gai
>>
Blah blah buy anime blah blah I could give a shit.

I only want to watch shows somewhat close to their actual air dates, only fansubs can provide this. Even official streams or whatever the fuck will still be weeks behind.
>>
Because most of /a/ really wouldn't like anime if it wasn't free.

Well, other than a very small handful of titles.
>>
>So why do you continue to do what you do knowing that it's having a negative impact on the people who create the anime you like?

Because we don't care.
>>
foxnews of dubfags
>>
>>10178353

ADV: baaaawwww why aren't you buying tokyo majin and red garden?
>>
>>Zac ... still sucking cock
Fixed.
>>
>So why do you continue to do what you do knowing that it's having a negative impact on the people who create the anime you like?

Because we choose to.
>>
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Still trying to shame the shameless. Oh well, maybe it'll work on someone somewhere.
>>
>So why do you continue to do what you do knowing that it's having a negative impact on the people who create the anime you like?

Most of the good shows don't make it to the West, so why should we care?

Fansubbers certainly aren't affecting the ratings of those anime.
>>
THESE TOPICS ARE JUST AS BAD AS /v/'s HATE RANDOM WEBCOMIC THREADS.

FAGGOT MODS NEED TO DELETE THE SHITTY TOPICS INSTEAD OF STUFF THEY DON'T LIKE.
>>
As stated in the 200+ reply thread about this last night, nobody cares about the American anime industry. Japan should go back to being independent of us. It's their own damed fault for the industry failing, not fansubbers.

/THREAD
>>
ANN will suck cock now and forever. Sage because there's nothing new or exiting about this thread.
>>
we have to shovel money for a good internet connection and wait the precious hours for our torrents to finish to watch our fansubbed anime. That there is more sacrifice than most Japanese viewers make
>>
>>10178375

Example: SZS and ZSZS. I could see LS getting licensed since it ran on the coattails of Haruhi, but I see no way of these titles getting a license unless it was by Media Blasters or some shit.
>>
Stop reading that crap.
>>
To be fair, one can easily apply this to those DA fags who sell their self-manufactured (read: shit) animu merchandise.
>>
>>10178407
LS was licensed a long time ago, and the DVDs will be out this summer if I remember correctly.
>>
>>10178439

I know, I'm commenting that I could see why it was.
>>
Whether I download fansubs or not doesn't change the fact I have no money.
I don't download Manga and I haven't bought any Manga in almost a year.
>>
Stop reading that crap.
>>
Fansubbing is like having a guy sit next to me and translate what's being said. It's just that the guy in infintie and never loses quality.
>>
Holy shit guys I never realised that me downloading and watching fansubs instead of buying dvd's for all the anime I watch was hurting the anime industry in america and japan so much. I feel really bad now I am going to go and buy all the dvd's of the anime I have watched.
>>
>>10178541
It's not the subs that are the problems, it the fact that the anime itself is being watched. Translations just make it possible for non-moonspeakers to watch it.
>>
I'd buy boxsets of American TV shows over anime DVDs, BECAUSE THEY'RE DAMN CHEAPER.
>>
>>10178582
Jap TV doesn't work the same way American TV works. Advirtisments make up little of the revenue and none of that goes to the Production Company. Most comes from merch.

Timeshifting won't kill the industry.
>>
This shit should really go in /jp//
>>
Oh we should feel bad for being so called "leaches" on a company that leaches off another industry anyway.
>>
>a negative impact on the people who create the anime

Not how it works. The only thing we hurt are our local distributors. They have already paid said creators in moonland for the right to butcher, edit and place a shitty dub ontop of the series.

If I don't pay for packaged shit, the elevens have already gotten their cut, and the only ones I put out of business are the idiots who don't really understand the actual anime community (the one that doesn't think Naruto is the greatest thing ever) then aren't I infact, a hero?
>>
Me watching anime hurts the anime industry in America? It might prevent high school faggots from seeing and ruining the shows I like? TIME TO UP MY PIRATIN' SKILLS! Really, I don't see how us watching over here does any damage to Japan. We already buy their shitty overpriced import merchandise and DVDs for the shows we like.
>>
>>10178644
Actually it shouldn't. Just because /jp/ is full of all the non-anime related garbage doesn't mean the anime related garbage also goes there.
>>
>>10178664

Look how stupid you are.

Where do you think "the elevens cut" comes from, brainiac?
>>
Summarizing last nights GIGANTIC discussion about how shit ANN is:

It's up to business to take our money, not for us to give them our money. They happen to be complete shit at taking our money. End.
>>
>>10178500

In essence you were never a customer to begin with, so you can't be counted as lost revenue.

Brilliant.
>>
>>10178697
Local distributors.
>>
>>10178697
Their cut is a investment by the american company

They pay their money, at a risk hoping that their sales will outweigh what it cost to license the show.

the japoos dont care how well our shit sells, as long as they can sell the license.
>>
You know, I'd buy every series I watch. I really would, and I did when gas was $1 a gallon.

Gas is $4 a fucking gallon right now, and my bills are inflating too. If there were no fansubbers out there, I'd go without anime, save the scant crap on CN, SciFi, or G4. Your industry would still be in shambles.


If Japan wants to blame someone for taking all the money away, blame the fucking US government for destroying mass transportation and stifleing energy research. Economics 3102 motherfucker!
>>
>>10178703
I couldn't agree more.
>>
>>10178703
You've convinced me at your wondrous use of rhetoric.
>>
>>10178738
Im not saying to buy DVDs but the money you save by walking/biking/not going the fuck outside will save you money to buy more figures
>>
Wow....Zac's faggotry never ceases to amaze me.
>>
>>10178703
this man speaks the truth
>>
>>10178391
good times. 200+ agian!
>>
entertainment industry will always be here, don't be naive
>>
>>10178738

I steal all my gas. I siphon it out of the cayenne that parks next to my car in the condo parking garage.
>>
STOP SUCKING CIRNO'S COCK!
>>
It's not that we hate buying anime and we never buy, it's just that it's far easier to watch fansubs than it is to buy DVDs. And there's far more selection when it comes to fansubs than there is versus buying DVDs.
>>
>>10178755
fallacy #1: damn you want to breed some real, bonafied otakus, huh?

fallacy #2: I spend at least 3 hours a day driving to school and my job. More, depending on if they need me to make deliveries. I burn 10 gallons of gas a week solely to educate myself and make enough money for bills, tuition and more gas. That is the life of an American college student.
>>
ANN is turning into another Fox News
>>
In before UNICEF and lolicon in Japan.
>>
US anime industry wouldn't even exist if it weren't for fansubs (except series like DBZ and Naruto). Companies like ADV have this misguided idea that anime fans have some sort of duty to buy DVDs of anime series they haven't ever seen before just because it's anime, and only after they've waited months and months for dubs and shit they don't even care about.

I hope the R1 anime DVD industry chokes on its own delusional self-importance and every single fuckhead in ANN and ADV lose their jobs.
>>
A long time ago it was about getting anime out there – things you couldn't get, or things you could see before they came out here. A little while ago things got blurred… but yeah, it's become a community. Many of us liken it to an MMORPG, where it's really no different from people playing Warcraft all day. There are people playing under nicknames, adopting a character – we even gain "experience", getting to "higher levels".


lol what
>>
ANN themselves say anime is a luxury.

Well so are diamonds, but fansubs are like living next to an old volcanic site and there's diamons everywhere. They may be rough, but with a little work they can shine the same.
>>
tl;dr NA animu distribution just needs a new business model.
>>
>>10178832
the best part is when everything crashes around you!
>>
ADV FUCKING STARTED AS A FANSUB GROUP.

hell they made the first Eva sub in some hotel room at a con.
>>
Looks like we wont be able to get anime outside Japan soon. Oh well, it was a good run guys.
>>
>>10178864

And nothing of value was lost.

And MB, RS, and AW step in.
>>
>>10178891

ADV and other companies can't do shit.
>>
>>10178882

Yeah, and as any company, they don't desire competition :D
>>
>>10178882

Then I'd like to see another group go from group to company and then not be a bunch of whiny niggers.
>>
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I only see one other person in this thread with the same position as me, which is "I don't care, how about they go fuck themselves." That pretty much sums it up for me.
>>
BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV BOYCOTT ADV
>>
>>10178937

It's not really that hard.
>>
>>10178919
yeah that will never fucking happen.

if anything it would only get worse. case in point: ADV.
>>
not this shit again
>>
I only watch as much anime as I do because there's less chance of being sued then pirating movies.
>>
>>10178955
FUCK YOUR SCHOOLING. WE DON'T NEED OR WANT YOUR FACTS!
>>
>>10178966

well go play sport or something you cynical nerd, you have no chance of being sued for that.
>>
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I only watch as much anime as I do because there's less chance of being sued then pirating movies.
>>
>>10179000
OH SHIT. NIGGERS!
>>
There's too much anime, licensed or not.

A good portion is fansubbed. To watch it all, logistically, it's easier to do it all through the computer with video files.
>>
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>>10178985
>>well go play sport or something you cynical nerd, you have no chance of being sued for that.
>>/a/ - Anime & Manga
>>cynical nerd
>>go play sport
LOL.
>>
>>10178891
not sure if want. i wouldn't watch anime anymore, meaning i would finally stop being an otaku. hmm...
>>
Even if american industry dies and all the money is gone, anime will still go on.

All the speculation that what's left will be just moe and crap is fucking annoying. You can't know for sure, and tastes might change when or if that happens. Who knows, maybe anime will go back to the old days of ultra-violence. Just because moe sells now doesn't mean it always will.

I for one welcome the death of the NA anime industry.
>>
>>10179035
>>10179000
I'd watch niggernoha
>>
The anime club in my school brought the President of Central Park Media (Project A-ko, I forgot the name but the first american hentai video) and he's a cool guy. He understands the business and understands that Anime is a niche market and now the pirate market is just as good and sometimes even better than the proffesional ones. According to him it takes 8 minutes after then anime airs for the Japs to have an episode on there P2P networks. It takes 8 hours for the chinese to sub it, and it takes another 24 hours on average for the Americans to sub it. By that time all the people that want to watch the anime has already seen it. According to him the only way to survive in the market is to get involved with other businesses.
>>
>>10179228

When you have a sub group who can release a show in less than 24 hours of airing, you can watch a show in it's entirety and than fucking forget it once it's done.
>>
If some kind of anime related industry wants to make my money start importing more merchandise

Fuck DVDs, but I would gladly pay for some figs and such.
>>
>>10179255

It's usually the same tired of shit like wallscrolls or shit figs.
>>
>>10178866
you've been watching too much Kaiji
>>
>>10178600
Still pretty expensive. I'd only buy Earl and Dexter.
>>
>>10179209
The entire industry won't just 'die', worst case scenario japan drops the price of the license to help keep companies here afloat.
>>
>>10178882
20 years later we'll be bitching about Eclipse and Triad.

WHERE ARE MY TEN SUBS TRIAD? YOU SAID THERE WOULD BE SUBS.
>>
>>10179336
You think too much, the elevens will just tell them to go fuck themselves.
>>
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Whatever happened to the "fuck you, fuck you, and fuck you" attitude? What went wrong? What happened? Why are we caring at all?
>>
>>10179430
Gaiafags and their morals.
>>
>>10179400
It's a free wad of cash for every series that comes out. As long as companies here are surviving by a thread they can charge whatever they want for the license
>>
>>10179430

Because ADV has not yet released Gurren Lagann.
>>
>>10179336
Aye, the licence pricing system pretty much works as an auction given the individual nature of each property. When the American companies profits fall too low, they'll bid lower on the licences and we'll see a reduction in their operating costs as a result of these lower bids. We can also expect, however, for some reduction in their operating costs in reductions in the voice acting pay and therefore quality. Ah, well, it'll start a spiral of increasing crappiness that ends with no real industry.

I still say that their main issue is their misplaced enthusiasm in the aftermath of translating all the good shows from the eighties and early nineties, anyone with a tiny bit of sense ought to have seen that those sales figures were an abnormality and not the real trend.

Ah, well, the anime industry has been doomed already and because th executives like to think they can turn this situation around they've jumped on the bandwagon of blaming piracy. The universe is being made crap because of pride, hubris and American optimism once again.
>>
>>10179400 You think too much, the elevens will just tell them to go fuck themselves.

"The Japanese are absolutely reducing their advances required to acquire titles. Obviously, they need to charge what's fair in the market for us to be able to recoup. So yes, the numbers are getting as low as free (no advance), which is still not free because we still have to spend $10,000 an episode to dub the thing."

From the head of Funimation, a month or so ago.

Retard.
>>
>>10178703
truth

why the fuck should i pay $30 for 3 episodes of a series at least a year old on a technically shitty dvd filled with a worthless dub/special features about the dub team when a fansubber gives me what i want for free within a couple days? sometimes i'll still buy a series i REALLY liked, but goddamn. same with manga, but it's getting better.
>>
>>10179255
Simple supply and demand. Nobody cares about your fanbase if only you and a few thousand or so like it.
So why waste money just so maybe a hundred or so are sold?
Besides, you got online sales which also defeat the point of claiming SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE IS TOO HIGH on DVDs.
>>
>>10179453

The funniest thing about the licensing system is that two companies in particular (Geneon and ADV) drove up the prices of licenses a lot.

Why? They had Japanese backers and funding. GG Japan.
>>
>>10179478 why the fuck should i pay $30 for 3 episodes

NOBODY PAYS $30 FOR 3 EPISODES.

YOU'RE ON THE INTERNET. USE IT. FUCK.
>>
>>10179502

and by that I mean use it to search for realistic prices not download, lol
>>
SO FUNNY
>>
>>10179400
According to the president of Central Park Media that's the way the Japanese use to think. But the late 90's changed all of that.
>>
>>10179435
The gaiafags are the one who pirate. School doesn't teach you about money.
>>10179486
And now Geneon is dead.
>>
>>10179502
ok, so it's really more like $20 for 4 episodes. still too much too late.
>>
Geneon oh how i will never miss you.

but i do need to grab some DVDs before they can only be bought form you fuckers.
>>
>>10179458
So if they'd just stop "dubbing the thing," it would be cheaper still. I wish the North American companies would wise up to the fact that a large chunk of the market couldn't care less about dubs (the fact that so many people are content with fansubs really ought to be a clue).
>>
Anime costs too much!
*points out realistic prices*
mumble mumble mumble mumble

DVDs have terrible translations!
*points out how most fansubs are*
mumble mumble mumble mumble


Why don't you faggots just stop trying to act like you're victims who don't buy anime because the big mean evil capitalist anime companies are releasing a flawed product.

You're parasites who would never pay anyway.
>>
>>10179531
Daddy and mommy are rich.
>>
i like dubs.

if i had a job i would buy anime DVDs because they have a dub track.
>>
I wouldn't buy anime dvds even if there weren't free downloads available.
>>
>>10179563

That chunk of the market is already there.
>>
>>10179486
I have often thought that ADV hasn't Japanese backers so much as they base a lot of their decisions on the CEO's fanboyism.

Admittedly, it has sometimes lead them well but often will lead them into shit and overbidding.

On the other hand, yes, Geneon has Japanese backing and will generally benefit from driving licence prices up on account of the behaviour of people in simultaneous auctions for products with a degree of similarity; namely that of a particularly high price "spilling over" into other auctions. The Japanese backers get high licence prices and can afford to send more money to Geneon who can then bid higher on other series, thus increasing the licence prices on all series even further.

In many ways, this is starting too look like the particular flaws of American openness in business transactions with a more reserved culture that is capable of manipulating them truly and utterly.
>>
>>10179563
i would like to see numbers for how many people are sold by a dub. i can see it being necessary if it's going to air on tv, but surely people don't buy a dvd for the dub.
>>
>>10179563 So if they'd just stop "dubbing the thing," it would be cheaper still.

No it wouldn't, because then they'd be drastically reducing the amount of people they could sell to.

The vast majority of people will not buy subtitle only cartoons.

Before you try to point out Media Blasters or whoever are doing more subtitle only stuff now, look at the titles they're doing it with. Ultra-niche crap that will hardly move many copies anyway.
>>
>>10179594
Shut up.
>>
>>10179534
20 bucks? Spongebob sells at 20 bucks and he has more funding than Afro Samurai.
>>
I still buy anime DVDs. I bought Full Metal Panic: Second Raid, and Full Metal Panic Fumoffu this past month. I'm actually trying to figure out what my next purchase will be.
>>
>>10179615
yeah.
>>
>>10179594
But Geneon's dead now.
>>
>>10179594

With ADV, it's more that they hit hard financial times, and that their solution instead of rationalizing and switching to more profitable business methods was to have a Japanese financial backer buy into ADV and resume paying inflated licensing costs again, just setting up the ticking time bomb that recently went off.
>>
>>10179534
$20 for 4 or 5 episodes vs. $30 for 3 makes a HUGE difference over the course of a 26 episode series (even a 13 episode series, really), dipshit. Furthermore, if you wait for the box set, it's not infrequently $60-100 for an entire 26-episode series ($30-50 for 13 episodes).
>>
I think its great that the anime industry in America is so terrible that the only option is to pirate the shows from japan. Even if they cleaned up their act, got good subbers/dubbers, and actually released the series at the same time as airing in the U.S(or heck, even aired it on U.S tv at the same time); Fansubs would still be infinitely faster and convenient for anon.
>>
>>10179645

Typical texan economics.
>>
>>10179430
Yeah? Why do we need to justify our selves?
>>
>>10179645

ADV also blew all their surplus cash on trying to start up a manga diversion, buying a whole mess of titles they wouldn't ever publish.
>>
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>the only option is to pirate the shows from japan
>>
>>10179638

Geneon aren't really dead. In limbo would be a more accurate description.
>>
In before powerlevels copypasta.
>>
>>10179660
lol what. $20 for 4 episodes is still a lot, and $30 for 3 was obvious hyperbole. i do like the thinpacks for 26 episode series that go for about $50 though.
>>
>>10179669

Yes. Most shows now have a release within 72 hours after the raw is put up. Now company can compete with that.
>>
>>10179669

Yes. Most shows now have a release within 72 hours after the raw is put up. No company can compete with that type of speed.
>>
sage
>>
What do these companies actually do to justify the huge pricetags they put on their dvds? Translation can be done for free by ripping fansubs, dubs are not needed and packaging costs about $1 per 1000 dvds.
>>
>>10179705
In England there are a lot of 4 episode DVDs for £20, which is the same as 3 for $30.
>>
>>10179705 lol what. $20 for 4 episodes is still a lot

Not if you over the age of 15 and have a job. Also, $20 still the the very top end any of any realistic pricing.

I can't remember the last time I bought an anime dvd that cost that much.
>>
>>10179752

Who gives a shit about England?

Their dvds also come out months later and are PAL converted shit.

INTERNET. USE IT.
>>
>>10179758

I can understand $20 for most DVDs for movies and shit, but as I keep saying, there is too much anime.
>>
>>10179733

wtf. HELLO. THAT IS ILLEGAL. THE ANIME COMPANIES IN AMERICA ARE NOT MAFIA PEOPLE.
>>
>>10179733 Translation can be done for free by ripping fansubs, dubs are not needed

You're an idiot.
>>
>>10179778
I don't buy them, I'm just saying they exist.
>>
>>10179715
The movie industry can (bootlegs), the music industry can (music rips), and the video game industry can (roms). We just can't pirate like we can with those.
>>
>>10179574
>Anime costs too much!
>*points out realistic prices*
>mumble mumble mumble mumble
>
>DVDs have terrible translations!
>*points out how most fansubs are*
>mumble mumble mumble mumble

These two points are inter-related, if prices are higher than the perceived product quality value then we won't buy it. Many people tell us to buy anime DVDs because we should "support the industry" which is a fallacy because purchasing a product indicates that we want more of that kind of product. If we were to purchase Anime DVDs that we wouldn't if we didn't use "supporting the industry" as a validation they will be incentivised to provide DVDs like the ones we chose, which - because the existing products are not worth it on their own merits - will result in them providing more products that we don't value enough to purchase.

In alternative terms, the claims that we need to support the industry provides a false demand for a product that will not provide incentives to offer better products that are worth the price on their merits alone.
>>
I would gladly buy more anime at $20 for 4. I buy now at $22-25 for 3 once in a blue moon. Though I try to wait until I can get a full 13 or 26 for < $80.
>>
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Hey guys, wanna join my cult and kill people?
>>
>>10179615
Bullshit. Except for the most mainstream of mainstream series (Naruto, etc.), the majority of the fanbase doesn't even watch the dub. I'm not saying they shouldn't dub the mainstream shows, I'm saying that it's not necessary to dub every stinking show they license.

Honestly, how many people care about the dub of Kamichu, for instance?
>>
>>10179791
Ripping a translation is not illegal if you own the rights to the original.
>>
>>10179791
But their president is. *dun dun dun*
>>
it would be good if you could rent anime dvds like you rent movie dvd
>>
>>10179816

His point is that people are huge hypocrites.

They argue that anime is too expensive based on false prices.

They argue that dvds allegedly have terrible translations when most fansubs are just as bad or worse.

People complain that they want speed over quality but then bitch and moan about anything less than perfection.
>>
I would have never become an anime faggot if not for free downloads.

So basically, if the only option was to BUY anime, I wouldn't have got into it in the first place.
>>
>>10179813
Shakeycams and games on DVD-R's that you console can't run, right.
>>
>>10179813
>>
>>10179825
>I would gladly buy more anime at $20 for 4. I buy now at $22-25 for 3 once in a blue moon. Though I try to wait until I can get a full 13 or 26 for < $80.

this is because you are fucking retarded, most people here are not
>>
>>10179645
>>10179688
Idiots, they deserve what they're getting themselves into, then.
>>
>the majority of the fanbase doesn't even watch the dub
Why the hell do you believe that?
>>
>>10179873
Learn to download proper rips and mod your consoles then, unless you have a PS3, but that's not a point, you don't have games to pirate.
>>
>>10179702
Purgatory is essentially dead.
>>
>>10179669
>>Even if they cleaned up their act, got good subbers/dubbers, and actually released the series at the same time as airing in the U.S(or heck, even aired it on U.S tv at the same time); Fansubs would still be infinitely faster and convenient for anon.

This would be my dream and I would never download again. Ever.
>>
>>10179892
Depends what series it is. The majority of the fanbase for Naruto definitley watches the dubs.
>>
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If we really liked what was out on the NA market we would buy it. We don't. Capitalism is awesome.
>>
>>10179894
Speaking of which, how does that work? Say I wanted to pirate Brawl, would it autodetect it being a pirate version?
>>
>>10179868
Bitching and moaning about anything less than perfection for a particular price is perfectly alright. Accepting anything less than perfection when it's at a different price is also alright. You don't think that people must only accept a certain standard of quality for all prices, right?
>>
>>10179935
Well, iTunes does that, but it's sure as hell not fast.
>>
If they did it at the same speed as fansubs and offered the episodes for $2/download, I would download them from the official site.
>>
>>10179919
No, get a proper modchip for your console version, most of the newer ones can't be detected, you can even fucking play Brawl online with them.
>>
Entire thread = You lost me.
>>
>>10179935

Hah, I wouldn't.

Fuck buying anime, unless it's a physical copy and you really really like.
>>
>>10179954
Waste of physical space.
>>
blaming fansubbing for a decrease in american anime sales.. yeah thats a ral smart thing to do. lets not blame it a decreasing disposable income for the average person. less disposable income means you gotta trim out the luxary/pleasure items like *GASP* anime.
>>
>>10179954
I can understand wanting a physical copy of a manga, but why would you want a physical copy of an anime? It's exactly the same but in less convenient storage.
>>
>>10179868
Yeah, saying "I'm not going to pay for it because I don't feel like it," would be honest at least. Nobody seems to want to do that, though: they have a rationalization for everything. Every time you challenge one excuse, they make a new one. That's a sign of a guilty conscience, that is.

I don't really care one way or the other, whether people buy the DVD or not, but be honest about your reasons, people.
>>
>>10179935
I'd even go so far as to say $5 an episode.
>>
>>10179935

Why would they do that for $2 when they can charge $20?
>>
If its a popular series, that's going to air on Adult Swim, or Sci Fi, it should get a dub, and a decent dubbing cast. If its say, Seto no Hanayome, which may be popular, but not enough to warrant a time on TV. Perhaps you shouldn't allocate money in your budget for a dub.
>>
>>10179919
If you mod it, no.
>>10179917
I've seen a lot of shows we've talked about released. Just from two years ago or so.
>>
>>10179901
How do I failed theology?

Purgatory ≠ Limbo.
>>
Maybe the TV-ad / premium channel revenue model doesn't work in Japan, but it certainly does in most of the rest of the world.
Every satellite or cable system I know of allows for at least two audio streams per channel plus closed-caption subtitles. The dubfags could watch their dubs while us elitist /a/ssholes listen to the original audio.
Ad revenue is collected, more DVDs (probably) are sold, less bandwidth is needed, everyone is happy.
>>
>>10179981
No-one charges $20 per episode. The reason they would do it is because they cut out all of their costs. If you look at most other television series of similar episode length they all go for $2/episode too.
>>
>>10179868
Here's a tip for you faggot. We may all be named anonymous, but we're not all the same person. One person may say he wants speed. And *gasp* he might not be the same person bitching about lack of perfection.

Get a clue. Contradictory opinions on the internet can be due to the fact that they're from different fucking people.
>>
>>10179988
We've already seen it.
>>
>>10179868
Particular sets of variables lead to different evaluations. For a given combination of speed, quality and other factors a certain price is the maximum you're willing to pay. For another combination you will find that they have a different acceptable price and the trade-offs between speed and quality are non-linear and not necessarily agreeable to you.
>>
Why would anyone listen to ANN?

Their fucking site is basically paid by ADS from ADV and other shit company's
>>
The only anime that has ever crossed my mind that I might buy is Spice and Wolf(in b4 anything regarding spice and wolf, furry, newfag etc). But given my attention span I will more than likely not end up buying it when Jap. releases the DVDs. I'll just use ConvertXtoDVD and burn the episodes onto DVD+R's.
>>
>>10179995
Same stupid made-up bullshit.
>>
ADV is a bunch of cry babies, and ANN is ADV's little bitch (you actually think they would say something bad about their advertisers).
"Perhaps if so many fans weren't getting their anime from illegal file sharing sites or unlicensed streaming sites, we might have expanded our UK catalogue more quickly. As it stands now, however, we have a better shot at growing our business with Lace than maintaining an overseas branch."
ADV CEO John Ledford
>>
>>They're not really in to the fandom… take Otakon. There will be more people, but they're not really hardcore. It's become more mainstream and that's just the way it goes. We're strong in numbers, but the heart of it is weak.

I think this is what the whole fansub vs. buying DVDs thing boils down to. Anime is so accessible that there are few hardcore fans.

Take /a/ for instance. I used to think that /a/ was the super elite, hardcore anime fanatic. I didn't believe the whole /a/ doesn't watch anime meme.

But a hardcore fan would buy the DVDs for the shows they like. How many here can even name the director, big animators and script writers of their favorite show?

I guess if you view anime as simply pop culture disposable entertainment then you don't give a shit about supporting the creators. I think that's kinda sad, personally.
>>
>>10179980
They already had those around the time Keroro Gunso got licensed. No one ever looks.
>>
>>10180024
Made up bullshit perhaps, but not the same.
>>
>>10179868
>>10179574
>>most fansubs are just as bad or worse.

lol joke moar
>>
>>10180061

Yo Aniki, let's go fight the Helix King!
>>
LOL So ANN asked this subber for a interview to grill him?


REMINDS ME OF FOXNEWS
>>
>>10180024

Limbo is the first circle of hell, illuminated by Reason and inhabited by the virtuous unsaved.
Purgatory is the suffering endured by the saved who still have sins they need to sweat off.
read your Dante.
>>
>>10180003
Maybe so, but I've seen enough cases where it WAS the same person to know that there's a lot of hypocrites around this subject.
>>
>>10180080
>>Aniki

Yes

>>Helix King

No
>>
>>10179868

>They argue that anime is too expensive based on false prices.

Reasons why I don't buy anime:
1 ) Don't have that much money to spend on anime, and I'm a stingy person.
2 ) Most series Don't seem worth it.
3 ) There aren't many titles that I like that are licensed.
4 ) Doesn't seem like a good idea, seems to me, no one likes the American Anime industry anyways, although I think it'd be nice if it could work out.

So yeah, for now, it's free fansubs.

>They argue that dvds allegedly have terrible translations when most fansubs are just as bad or worse.

Not paying for fansubs, and you could always move onto another group.
>>
So many lazy selfish bastards ITT

You watch your fansubs, and if the show is good, once the DVD's come out you buy them to give money back to the studio

I've seen figures on the anime market before. The anime market for the US is about 1/4th that of Japan. So studios make about 20% of their profit from US sales. If the R1 anime market collapses, shows would be 20% shitter/there would be 20% less shows.
>>
>>10180053
Adding to that, they ARE two dollars.
>>
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HEY BANDAI I DOWNLOAD GUNDAM 00 WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO NOW?!?!?!


LULZ
>>
>>10179752
yes, well instead of comparing sponge bob imports to bleach imports, compare your shows to theirs.

Guessing a DVD of I don't know...SuperTed? sells for £10 for 4 episodes. Bleach is on the isle over at £30 for 3 eps. amiright?
>>
>our interview subject has requested anonymity
>he can be contacted at the following email address: Tofusensei [at] live-evil.org

LOL
>>
>>10180048

> But a hardcore fan would buy the DVDs for the shows they like.

And a *smart* hardcore fan would buy the DVDs if it was at a price that they feel is worth it. That's the entire core of the "I don't buy no stinkin' DVDs" faction; anime DVDs as they are today aren't just worth it. The problem with the "You must all buy the DVDs" faction is that they think that their estimate that the DVDs are worth it applies to everyone.

Hey, if someone isn't gonna buy them because they don't think the DVD is worth shelling out their hard earned cash for irregardless of how much they love the show proper, then who the hell are you to say that they're wrong for doing so?
>>
>>10180080

HEY BRO!
WHAT'S UP BRO!?
YOU'RE SO AWESOME BRO!
I WISH I WAS AS COOL AS YOU BRO!
>>
>>10180060
Let me spell it out for you then - Geneon aren't dead, they're in the middle of restructuring.

They were transitioning from a director releaser model to one similar to say, Kadokawa. They would own the licenses to various properties, and instead of producing and distributing stuff themselves they would essentially farm it out to a local company to handle that side for them.

ADV were meant to be the ones who would take on their properties and keep pushing them out.

ADV had their own implosion and pulled out of the deal, leaving all the Geneon properties that would have been continued without anybody to get them out there.

Geneon are still in the middle of working things out to have their stuff continued. They'll be back, along with their titles. Just not the way they used to be.
>>
>>10180048
I will support creators that create shows that I like enough to purchase. At some point I need to purchase various series that I enjoy. Just not at $5-10 an episode.
>>
It's because of people like you that I don't have my Gurren Lagann DVD's yet.
>>
>>10180103
And nothing of value was lost.
>>
>>10180103
>You watch your fansubs, and if the show is good, once the DVD's come out you buy them
This is what I do.

Only morons pay SRP, though. The internet is full of places to buy all kinds of things, including anime, at substantially less than SRP (and I don't mean bootlegs, either).
>>
>>10180116

>>And a *smart* hardcore fan would buy the DVDs if it was at a price that they feel is worth it.

But I'm not talking about Bandai Visual's prices. Okay, let's say I can get 4 episodes of my favorite show for $20. Let's say it's a 26 episode show. That's $130.

Now that sounds like a shitload and I do think we need more boxsets (Marimite's release is $40 for all the episodes and no dub track). But still, let's say you're only buying ONE show a year.

$130 isn't that much. I probably spend way more than that in a year on eating out or going to the movies or whatever.

So I still stick by my point - real fans buy DVDs of the shows they love.
>>
>>10180124
STOP! MACRO TIME!
>>
>>10180103

Yes I will support the industry buy buying the DVDs. The R2 DVDs.
>>
ANN:
3% people who actually buy everything
20% moralfags who pretend to
70% moralfag bandwagoners
7% people who just use the encyclopedia

If it weren't for fansubs, we wouldn't have half the shit already licensed and a quarter of the presently existing fanbase. We'd just be watching whatever the fuck Toonami decides to show.
Meanwhile, they only JUST license Marimite.
Everything I could possibly say has been said a thousand times over.
>>
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>>10180095
>>10180124

Hey guys I just found the perfect subtitles for you!
>>
>>10180048
I think this is a good post.

I'm always pissed off at anime bloggers and people like that who watch shows they don't even like.

I only watch shows that I would LIKE ENOUGH TO BUY. I don't watch anime just because it's there, or to have "Anime Expert Seen 100+ animes" credits, or because watching StrikerS will make you understand the doujinshi better, or to bitch about it's QUALITY online.

I watch anime that I like, and think "There should be more shows like this."
>>
>>10180135
So we can see anime bears driving anime taxis. Whoo-hoo.
>>
>>10180232

Better than the "official" ones at least.
>>
>>10180222
Except its actually twice as expensive! With no subs!
>>
ADV PAYS ANN TO KEEP THEIR SITE UP
>>
>>10180258 Better than the "official" ones at least.

All your opinions, rendered null and void.
>>
>>10180207
$130 can get you a 500GB to store 2500 episodes att 200MB per episode. That's roughly 100 full length series, faggot.
>>
>>10180135
Did I (>>10180060) say Geneon was dead? I defending the use of "limbo."
>>
>>10180268

Thats what fansubs are for. I buy the R2 DVDs after I get the fansubs, faggot.
>>
>>10180244
>I only watch shows that I would LIKE ENOUGH TO BUY.
Hmm? Now my curiosity is running rampant. What are you watching out of the currently airing shows?
>>
>>10180207

SAGE SAGE SAGE
>>
>>10180222

R1 dvd's are a LOT more expensive than R2 dvd's. Plus you have to pay like 30 dollars shipping and handling.
>>
>>10180232

Oh wow. I can't believe that's for real.
>>
>>10180304
>>R1 dvd's are a LOT more expensive than R2 dvd's.

wut.
>>
>>10180304
Wait wut?
>>
>>10180298

lol dubfags opinions
>>
>>10180300
Kaiji.
Bamboo Blade.
ZSZS, if it counts.
That's... it.
>>
>>10180300
>Hmm? Now my curiosity is running rampant. What are you watching out of the currently airing shows?

None, actually. I was watching Shigofumi, but Bandai Visual's prices made me stop. The last show I watched was Sketchbook. Though I'm thinking of picking up Baccano or Victorian Romance Emma.
>>
>>10180300
Wolf and Spice, Spice and Wolf.
>>
>>10180319
>>>R1 dvd's are a LOT more expensive than R2 dvd's.

That was just a typo, it's meant to be the other way around
>>
>>10180244
QFT.

I rarely finish a show that I wouldn't buy, given the chance. I certainly don't finish shows that I hate, that's stupid. Wasting time is even worse than wasting money.
>>
Sage for dubfags and fags supporting the R1 "industry"
>>
>>10180207

> But I'm not talking about Bandai Visual's prices.

Nobody's talking about specific prices. I'm talking about *worth*. They are not the same thing.

You may feel that $130 is worth a particular box set. Some other may feel that $130 is too expensive because he thinks it's worth $100. Yet another thinks that it's worth zip since he is a shameless leecher. Yet all three of you love the same show proper to the same degree.

Now tell me why your estimation of the worth of the box set should apply to the others and why they shouldn't be allowed to exercise their own ability to make consumer decisions?

And then there are the super-elitists who think that it's so worth it that they buy every last bit of merchandise and the R2 DVDs straight from Japan. Now, tell me why you should be immune to calls to do the same? He would be a helluva more real fan than you if we were to follow your logic, after all.

Being a real fan doesn't mean you have to switch off your brain and buy the DVDs of the show if you don't think it's worth it.
>>
You could get FIVE episodes of Gurren Lagann for the price of one nice pizza and soda. That's a good deal.
>>
>>10180364
But all we have is time.
>>
>>10180280

>>$130 can get you a 500GB to store 2500 episodes att 200MB per episode. That's roughly 100 full length series, faggot.

You're missing the point. I was lamenting the fact that people don't actually care about anime or about the people who make it.

And I'm not talking about whatever shit show they're churning out, I'm talking about the shows that you loved to death. Or maybe you don't have any of those?
>>
>>10180295
Licensing fees still give more than imported sales, so why are you still justifying yourself?
>>
I'll just repeat the truth so the moralfags cringe and cry.

No fansubs = no industry. End of discussion. Those precious Haruhi DVDs? They would be rotting away in some corner without fansubs.

And the Japanese know it, too. Which is why they don't chase us down.
>>
>>10180352
You'd actually buy that show? I'm going to assume you're not the same guy, because that guy had some sense.

>>10180335
Shigofumi was cool, why not finish it? Bandai fucked themselves, that shouldn't stop you from finishing the series and basically telling them "Fuck off, your prices are absurd."

>>10180048
>How many here can even name the director, big animators and script writers of their favorite show?
I can.
>>
I got 26 episodes of gurren laggan, a nice pizza and a soda for the price of a nice pizza and a soda.
>>
>>10180374
>>You could get FIVE episodes of Gurren Lagann for the price of one nice pizza and soda. That's a good deal.

Oh wow. Where do you live, rich boy? New York?
>>
>>10180383
I'd understand what you're saying, but it doesn't work on me cause I live in LOLSINGAPORE and I'd never buy Odex.
>>
I really don't care what happens to the American market for anime. As long as they keep making anime in Japan someone will seed it and others will fansub it. Even in some "The sky is falling!" scenario where Japan stops making anime; I still wouldn't care.
>>
>>10180389

Only a retard would say "down with fansubs."

Conversely, only a retard would say "down with licensed releases."
>>
>>10180374
That is a very good deal. I have no qualms with spending that.

>>10180403
I lol'd
>>
>>10180419
No fansub = no American anime market.

No licensed DVD = fansub still survives.

GUESS WHO NEEDS WHO AND WHO DOESN'T NEED WHO?
>>
>>10180378
That doesn't mean I don't have better things to do with my time than watch a shitty show. At the very least, I can watch a good show instead. Failing that, I could read a book, play a game, go outside (*gasp*) or some shit.
>>
>>10180404

I buy them from my friends who burn it for me. LOL
>>
i buy when its cheap like when Excel saga was only £3 per vol at HMV.com
>>
>>10180419
/thread.
>>
>>10180419
>>Conversely, only a retard would say "down with licensed releases."

lol no
>>
>>10180452
You're getting ripped by your so called friends then, a blank DVD doesn't even cost 50 cents.
>>
>>10180456
>>10180419
Same retard
>>
>>10180404

21.99 - Gurren Lagann DVD from amazon.com

15.99 - Chicken and Barbecue pizza from Joe's Pizza, Medford
1.00 - Blue cheese sauce, extra container
1.99 - soda
2.00-3.00 - tip for delivery boy

Note, I said NICE pizza, not "a" pizza.
>>
>>10180439
>No licensed DVD = Japan loses millions of dollars in licensing fees, and starts using even more money-saving shortcuts.
>>
>>10180442
I like to stick around and see how they end, I'm curious by nature, if I go past episode 3, you bet I'm gonna watch till 13/26/52.
>>
>>10180478
Most assuredly not.
>>
>>10180497

I see why you use that name.
>>
>>10180478
Not actually, since I'm one of those people
>>
>>10180497
Stuff I watch doesn't get here anyway.
>>
>>10180486

> 1.00 - Blue cheese sauce, extra container

Dude, why would you put cheese sauce on a pizza that already has cheese?
>>
Ok /a/, go take a shit on your dinner and eat it.

It's what you do every day here.
>>
>>10180517
>>10180503
Samefag again.
>>
I'll just repeat the truth so the moralfags cringe and cry.

No fansubs = no industry. End of discussion. Those precious Haruhi DVDs? They would be rotting away in some corner without fansubs.

And the Japanese know it, too. Which is why they don't chase us down.
>>
>>10180497
Amusingly enough they can still animate better than their western counterparts in 2d, even with a tiny fraction of the budget.
>>
>>10180519
Well, same here, but I'm trying to encourage the industry, not condemn it.

I want them to license my favorite shows. I want them to actually stop to think about what would be good business. Licensing companies are so shit it hurts.
>>
>>10180519
Well, with glorious sub-only releases, we're gonna see more and more niche titles.
>>
>>10180370

>>Now tell me why your estimation of the worth of the box set should apply to the others and why they shouldn't be allowed to exercise their own ability to make consumer decisions?

I'm not saying you should abandon common sense and throw your money away. All I'm really arguing is that if there's one show you really liked you should buy it (unless the prices are completely exorbitant, like Bandai Visual).

Nobody HAS to buy it. I just feel that someone who truly appreciates that one show would say to themselves - "Ok, I just watched this whole thing for free. I really loved it. That was awesome, they should make more like this. So hey why don't I support them?
>>
>>10180524
You should see what /v/ does to the vidya.
>>
>>10180501
Not me. If the first 2-3 episodes don't hook me, I'm done with it. I don't have the time or the disc space to download shows I'm apathetic about.
>>
>>10180522
>Dude, why would you put cheese sauce on a pizza that already has cheese?

It's for the crusts, of course.
>>
>>10180542
>>Nobody HAS to buy it.

Well someone -has- to, otherwise they'll stop making it altogether.
>>
The reason why you guys hate dubs so much is because you've already watched it in Japanese, and have tied those voices to the characters. If you watched the dub, you'd go "wtf is this shit?" even it was good. For example, if another season of Crest of the Stars was licensed here, what language would I watch it in? English, even though the dub of that show is one of the most pain-inducing I've ever watched, because I watched the first three seasons on TechTV. Ayako Kawasumi is an awesome voice actress, but she's just not Lafiel to me.
>>
>>10180545
Which is exactly what I said, lol. Watch release till 3, decide to drop or continue. Only difference between us is if it becomes shit after 3, I'll still finish it.
>>
>>10180529
You keep believing that if you want, as I can't prove otherwise (unless a mod wants to jump in and tell you that the IP is different), but I was busy writing >>10180442 when >>10180419 was posted.
>>
>>10180544
/v/ - Brawl

It's not Video Games anymore.
>>
I'll just repeat the truth so the moralfags cringe and cry.

No fansubs = no industry. End of discussion. Those precious Haruhi DVDs? They would be rotting away in some corner without fansubs.

And the Japanese know it, too. Which is why they don't chase us down.
>>
>>10180595
I just realised I'm holding a conversation with you while trolling you at the same time. Gotta love Anonymous posting.
>>
>>10180575

I hate dubs because they are fundamentally wrong. Also, I watched Outlaw Star's dub first. I bought the series a year or so later and watched it subbed. I've never watched the dub version again.
>>
>>10180575
American VAs are never good. Even if I'm watching dub for the first time, no.
>>
>>10180626
That's not the debate. We all support fansubs. We just disagree on whether you should buy DVD's after watching fansubs.
>>
>>10180582
Yeah, I definitely have no qualms about dropping a show after 5 or 10 episodes, either (did that with Claymore). It's just that I usually know after 1 or 2 whether I think it's worth it.
>>
>>10180658
>>American VAs are never good.

Also true.
>>
>>10180626
>>And the Japanese know it, too. Which is why they don't chase us down.
No, they'll just rule out the foreign markets and give us more LOL QUALITY and moe shit.

As they say, you reap what you sow. And suprise suprise, more shit is headed our way.
>>
>>10180642
Haha. Yes, that is one of the more enjoyable features of anonymous posting.
>>
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>>10180541
I remember Jubei-Chan being all the rage in Japan land. Then Here and Now is sure popular.
I can't believe how many fansites they have for Ichigo Mashimaro!
>>
why are people dumbasses and buy the 4 episodes per dvd instead of the season box set?
>>
>>10180672
That's where we're different, I still push on.
>>
>>10180781

I dunno lol
>>
>>10180575
Funny, I've come to prefer the Japanese audio for many shows I first saw (and liked in English). For instance, my sister and I were introducing her fiancé to Cowboy Bebop last night, and my sister insisted we watch it in English because she's apparently a Steven Blum fangirl. It wasn't long before I realized that a dub that I used to like now bothers me (not so much the main cast, but the supporting cast really pisses me off).

>>10180626
>the Japanese know it, too. Which is why they don't chase us down.
The Japanese aren't chasing us down because nobody can do SHIT about internet piracy at this point.
>>
I buy dvds regularly and I have nothing against fansubs, since I watch them. Basically if I'm willing to watch the show multiple times, I'll buy the dvds. But they rarely license titles that I like (too much action series, not enough slice of lifes / moe).
>>
>>10180781
Probably because they don't want to wait for the box. I'm actually thinking about buying the individual DVD's of Kanon, even though I usually wait for the box.
>>
>>10180857
That's my problem, too. For instance, I really doubt Manabi Straight will ever get a North American release. Nor will Xenoglossia, Myself;Yourself, or Kimikiss.

I do expect Clannad to get licensed, and I'm holding out hope for Potemayo and Hidamari Sketch.
>>
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>>Based on what you're saying, it sounds to me that it started out with a certain level of ethicality to it. You drop a show when it gets licensed, you don't really leap on shows that you know are going to be licensed, to the point where it's become increasingly unethical and it's been pushed to the point where everything is fair game.

-> Incorrect, we drop things when they become too popular and mainstream because its cool when we like it, but becomes stupid when 12 year olds are running around shouting 'Rasengan' like we did as kids with DBZ.

>>So based on what we've all seen – and we've all seen this, it's not a myth or a baseless opinion – the anime industry appears to be in trouble. It might be on the brink.

-> America side yes, its royally fucked because of 12 year olds that run around yelling 'Rasengan' as the torrent for all of Naruto downloads it to their parents computer.

>>Knowing that what you're doing... would you be willing to say that what you're doing doesn't have any real net positive effect on the business of anime?

-> What most Americans do damages the Anime business, but the business was fine before it became popular here to net profit, we just wont get more horrid English dubs and will get more American made manga with bitchy 12 year old authors that want it to be recognized as real manga despite the fact that anime is just fancy for a jap cartoon.

>>So why do you continue to do what you do knowing that it's having a negative impact on the people who create the anime you like?

-> Because it effects the American side of the companies that release only the stuff they know will sell to the 12 year olds yelling 'Rasengan' and watching crappy cartoons on Adult Swim.
>>
>>10181035
what sort of shitty copypasta is this?
>>
>>10181035
>Because it effects the American

AFFECT FAGGOT. AFFECT IS THE ACTION. EFFECT IS WHAT HAPPENS.

YOUR STUPIDITY AFFECTED ME ENOUGH TO RAGE, THE EFFECT CAUSED ME TO SAGE.
>>
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>>10181086

Im afraid its called a reply to the OP. You see, I went question by question and replied the general American side. Its called voicing opinion of ones self. I advice you fall off a cliff.
>>
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>>10181093
Grammer sage forgot sage goes in All fields.
Sage failed, 0 damage to ego. Thanks for the correction tho, I get them mixed up a lot.
>>
>>10181093
So would you say his use of "effect" instead of "affect" in the verb form effected your state of anger?
>>
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>>10181180
Refresh check on the grammar sage, is he faster?
>>
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>>10181206
Nope.
>>
>>10181093
Actually, it could be entertainingly illuminating if you take it as written; that what they do effects (creates and maintains) the situation wherein companies only release crap targeted at 12 year olds with no sense of taste and restraint because all the other markets are being saturated with fansubs.
>>
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>>10181217

So they do it because all of the good stuff has been fansubbed to hell! Good point!
>>
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>>10181234
Late failed sage is fail.

Sage in all fields.

old/5
>>
>>10181175
AFFECTED FAGGOT. affect is used as a noun in rare cases, effect is used as a verb in rare cases. Fucking English 101.
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>>10181234
Effect, because the anger was induced by said usage of "effects" instead of "affects".
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I just ate three ice cream cones while reading that..

I feel sick now :(
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>>10181234
You should look at http://xkcd.com/326/, because you just fell into my cunning trap.
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>>10181389



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