[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k] [s4s] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/a/


File: madoka.jpg (124.55 KB, 640x368)
124.55 KB
124.55 KB JPG
Is Madoka really a deconstruction of the mahou shoujo genre as people claim?
>>
Mahou Shoujo always had some dark elements here or there
>>
Just because it features death doesn't make it a deconstruction
shit
>>
Yes it is now go and fucking watch it
>>
Madok is the deconstruction of Evangelion
>>
No, it's the reconstruction.
>>
File: chair.jpg (69.85 KB, 371x354)
69.85 KB
69.85 KB JPG
Nope.

Adding "edgy" themes everywhere in an otherwise light-hearted genre doesn't make it a deconstruction, that's just the creators trying hard to make it different.
>>
It's deconstruction of deconstruction. It shows that adding dark elements to "deconstruct" a genre wouldn't work and its happy ending means that a deconstruction by only adding dark elements can't actually break mahou shoujo genre apart.
>>
>>101730073
Why do these characters look like they were drawn by a 6 year old??
>>
Madoka is the Evangelion of anime.
>>
>>101731150
I think Evangelion is the Evangelion of anime.
>>
>>101731378
Deconstruction is the Madoka of Evangelion.
>>
>>101730073
Well it's about magical girls making a contract.

But said contract which is usually just getting magical powers to battle evil actually has a catch is quite different. And when you add concepts like death and consequence then it's not the generic mahou shoujo.
>>
>saying a thing is a deconstruction of a thing
I'll bet half of you faggots don't even know what you are talking about
>>
>>101730073
Yes, if you're newfag who never watched Utena or Princess Tutu
>>
Yes, Madoka is a deconstruction of the magical girl genre. Summer and newfaggots don't like to admit this because they weren't here for the OG Madoka threads.
>>
>>101730073
nanoha plant the seed first
>>
No.
Madoka is rebuild of mahou shoujo.
>>
>>101731687
Madoka is literally the most entry level MS anime out there, stop bullshitting
>>
>>101731146
Please don't bully the wide.
>>
>>101730073
>mahou shoujo genre
>genre
As far as I'm concerned, it's a theme, not a genre.
>>
>>101731636
It has to do with more realistic consequences. A deconstruction of x-men or something would have almost all mutants simply dying or permanently crippling themselves since the vast majority of mutations would be detrimental. It just says "Ignore that fact and pretend they would all be beneficial" so it becomes generic superhero stuff.

Madoka did have the guts to kill Mami and take apart the whole "nobody will get seriously injured in a normal battle" thing we'd usually all just accept, which fits the definition pretty well, but apart from that nothing sticks out. I got the impression they were just going for a darker story, not intentionally a deconstruction.
>>
>>101730073

If girls in SoL anime fight (not physical fight) each other and never see each other again and live sad and boring lives, would it be deconstruction of SoL anime?
>>
>>101730073
No, it's basically Faust in a magical girls setting.

It is the Evangelion of anime though.
>>101730982
>otherwise light-hearted genre
But that's wrong.
>>
File: 1386325739298.jpg (35.71 KB, 561x543)
35.71 KB
35.71 KB JPG
For the last time you morons.
It's not a deconstruction, it's a subversion of the usual themes/cliches associated with the mahou shoujo genre.
S-U-B-V-E-R-S-I-O-N
>>
>>101732083
Is it possible to deconstruct SoL without not actually being SoL?
>>
>>101731996
haha nope, thats not what deconstruction is.
>>
>>101731085
I always told people that it's "an example of deconstruction".
>>
This thread proves that madokafags are the most delusional fanbase on /a/
>>
File: phil.jpg (5.22 KB, 194x212)
5.22 KB
5.22 KB JPG
>>101731150
Then what does that make Evangelion?

And why do people compare Eva and Madoka in the first place?
>>
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreDeconstruction
read up faggots
>>
>>101730982
What is Sailor Moon Manga.png

Madoka is good but is not a deconstruction.
>>
>>101732293
>tvtropes
>>
>>101732357
your point? it's correct regardless of the source.
>>
>>101731913
>Literally
>>
File: 1384789694359.jpg (695.34 KB, 825x1200)
695.34 KB
695.34 KB JPG
>>101732139
I love how many people say this without knowing what deconstruction is. No, seriously, the number of people who parrot this is staggering.

If you know anything about Jacques Derrida's deconstruction, you will find Rebellion -extremely- relevant. I almost wonder if Urobuchi did it on purpose because of how much the series was lauded as a deconstruction in the impure sense.
>>
>>101732292
Get out, Phil.
>>
File: larry.gif (61.54 KB, 320x240)
61.54 KB
61.54 KB GIF
>deconstruction

This is one of those prank threads, right?
>>
File: Reaction image, ho.png (171.35 KB, 1032x857)
171.35 KB
171.35 KB PNG
It's a nice twist on it. I'm not saying all Mahou Shoujo anime is HENNNNNNNNNNNSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN DEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ~~~~~~~~~~~~

It was somewhat dour, but not ridiculously over the top.
>>
Madoka is the deconstruction of shitposting.
>>
With a twist /= deconstruction
>>
>>101732450
>>101732488
Hey, guys. Explain to me how Rebellion does not follow Derrida's philosophical considerations for deconstruction, then.
>>
File: madokami.jpg (1.49 MB, 1697x1800)
1.49 MB
1.49 MB JPG
Not a deconstruction.
>>
>>101732293
>To deconstruct a genre, the essential elements of the genre must be clearly demonstrated and taken to their most logical conclusions, and this causality must be plausible.
What would be the point of "deconstructing" something childish (mahou shoujo, etc.) like for example Sesame Street? Does "deconstructing" Sesame Street make the work more intellectual than the original? Everyone knows that it's not supposed to reflect reality.
>>
Even if it's not it's one hell of a show. Watch it faggot.

Don't discuss with anons who don't know shit about the word's definition.

Just enjoy the show as it is.
>>
>>101732666
I don't understand why people hate it. I swear /a/ liked it for a short while after it came out, but now I see a lot of people shitposting about how gay it is.
>>
>>101732720
/a/ hates on things, just to hate on them
If /a/ hates it, it doesn't mean shit
>>
>>101732720

I've mainly only seen praise threads, even just last week.
>>
>>101732720
>liked it

understatement of the year
/a/ has been obsessed about it for years
>>
>>101732592
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deconstruction
It's silly how the image in the Deconstruction page shows how silly deconstruction is when applied for works that do not pertain to reality.
The page deconstructs itself.
>>
>deconstruction

This term is being overused a bit too much lately.
>>
>>101730073
The uck is a deconstruction.
Do /a/ know what they are talking about? I know at least 5 definition of Mary Sue have been used by people on /a/
>>
File: Come at me.png (101.96 KB, 1024x1112)
101.96 KB
101.96 KB PNG
>>101732813
Sayaka's a fucking witch
>>
>>101732666
However, if anyone wants to discuss with anons who do understand deconstruction as a form of analysis of 19th-century western values, I'll be here.

I remember a few days ago we had a Nietzsche-Kierkegaard thread and it for the most part derailed. People cry 'not a deconstruction' without knowing what the term actually means, and then when deconstruction actually becomes relevant, they go, "lol how pretentious"
>>
>>101732867
yes
>>
>>101732827
go ahead and define it on your terms then, or are you just parroting?
>>
File: homu_homu_blue.jpg (10.28 KB, 197x167)
10.28 KB
10.28 KB JPG
>>101732887
Can a show be a deconstruction without intentionally trying to be one?
>>
>>101732973
Sure.
>"Whenever deconstruction finds a nutshell—a secure axiom or a pithy maxim—the very idea is to crack it open and disturb this tranquility. Indeed, that is a good rule of thumb in deconstruction. That is what deconstruction is all about, its very meaning and mission, if it has any. One might even say that cracking nutshells is what deconstruction is."
Now, granted, a hundred years ago, deconstruction focused on more scholarly subjects, but anime tropes are also axioms that can be cracked.
>>
>>101732887
>Deconstruction denies the possibility of a pure presence and thus of essential or intrinsic and stable meaning — and thus a relinquishment of the notions of absolute truth,
>Words have meaning only because of contrast-effects with other words. 'Red' means what it does only by contrast with 'blue', 'green', etc. 'Being' also means nothing except by contrast, not only with 'beings' but with 'Nature', 'God', 'Humanity', and indeed every other word in the language.
The fuck? No one's going to take you seriously if you believe this garbage.
>>
>>101732592
Deconstructing something doesn't make it intellectual. Fiction is not a science. You can make whatever you want for whatever reason, like fun.
>>
File: 1391762763361.png (120.01 KB, 492x591)
120.01 KB
120.01 KB PNG
>>101733125
Wow, you made it a few paragraphs into a Wikipedia article. Sasuga anon.
>>
>>101731996
To add: the red-head competing over kills so she could come out on top puts a realistic spin on the expected "Let's all work together to defeat evil" stuff. I remember her trying to game the system somehow too but watched it years ago so I don't remember the details.

QB being morally ambiguous, the girls turning into witches, etc. are just arranging tropes differently, not intentionally addressing realistic consequences.

Sage for semantic bickering.
>>
File: 1382158208784.png (35.63 KB, 221x212)
35.63 KB
35.63 KB PNG
>>101732973
Sure, but look at it like this. If you take a walnut and crack it, and just leave the pieces lying on the ground, all you've made is a mess.
That's what School Days is.

A successful deconstruction takes apart the maxims of a school of thought early on, and spends the rest of its time exploring the consequences. Madoka and NGE do the vast majority of their subversion within the first few episodes.
>>
File: madoka_thread_funeral.jpg (91.46 KB, 468x308)
91.46 KB
91.46 KB JPG
>>101733168
>fun
>madoka
>>
File: 1387118682357.png (878.86 KB, 800x800)
878.86 KB
878.86 KB PNG
>>101733210
Everyone please ignore this potential Deepak Chopra Quantum Spirit believer, he's clearly too dumb for his own good.
Inb4 I was just pretending to be retarded.
>>
>"Madoka isn't a deconstruction."
>"Oh, really? On what basis do you support that claim?"
>No replies
Every time. You'd think the steady stream of idiots would run dry at some point, but they keep breeding with each other and shooting out more.
>>
>>101733687
Deconstruction isn't even a word.
>>
>>101733687
>"Madoka is a deconstruction."
>"Oh, really? On what basis do you support that claim?"
>No replies
Every time. You'd think the steady stream of idiots would run dry at some point, but they keep breeding with each other and shooting out more.
>>
The word is parody.
One writes a deconstruction on symbols, and your own reading and etc.
One animates a parody. And yes, it is a really dark parody of the standard mahou shojou routinue.
>>
>>101733687
Handling things differently doesn't necessarily make something a deconstruction, though it did have a few elements of one. If there are more than these two then nobody's pointed them out.
>>101733398
>>101731996
>>
>madoka
>mahou shoujo anime

Don't make me laugh.
>>
Madoka is an extremely good magical girl show, but it's not a "deconstruction" because it doesn't really subvert any tropes or have any interesting "structural" inversions based on the conventions of the genre. unless someone wants to argue otherwise.
>>
>>101733757
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/derrida/
Here's a good start on Derrida's work if you're interested, anon. Education isn't going to bite you.
>>
It is a deconstruction of the mahou shoujo genre, but that's arguably not a good thing or something which makes madoka magicka better.

Deconstructing a genre is just avoiding the cliches and consistencies which already commonly exist in anime in that genre, along with changing the themes, being non-generic, etc.

Look at the fucking mahou shoujo genre right now, the only way to release a good mahou shoujo anime is by staying right the fuck clear of the cliches which already exist, which madoka magicka did.
>>
>>101730073
>Is Madoka really a deconstruction of the mahou shoujo genre as people claim?
>magical girls dying
>magical girls SUFFERING
>the mascot is perverse

Now you explain to me how it ISN'T a deconstruction of a genre for little girls.
>>
Yes, but not in the way /a/ usually thinks of it as. Mostly because /a/ hasn't seen more than 2 MS shows. Dark MS has been around for a long time, and what Madoka is unique in isn't its grim nature or edgy characters. Other shows have done that before, and they have done that far, far better. Hell, there was that season of Precure that was like 10 times more brutal than Madoka. It wasn't the fight it had fighting, or anything like that.

Magical girls aren't about "good" vs "evil." No, that's actually more of a recent development with stuff like Sailor Moon, and even those shows take a lot from Sentai. It isn't about little girls being heroes and saving people, at least not generally.

They're about "Before" and "After." MS is a sort of wish fulfillment fantasy for little girls. They are to 8 year old girls what SAO is to 13 year old boys. You watch it and think, "Geez, wouldn't it be fun to have magic?" This ties in very effectively to the marketing strategy, selling toys that let you fulfill that fantasy.

Now that's where Madoka flips things over. Even if there's some sort of consequence to having the powers, they're still typically seen as a blessing. Collecting cards or restoring a magic frog is nothing compared to the joy of flying and shit. But in Madoka, either there are no upsides or it's a monkey's paw situation. Being Meduka is truly suffering. Instead of having the Magical Girl part be the reward, it's the compensation.

And that part is pretty clever, I've gotta admit, even if the rest of the series is badly paced and a little messy. People always seem to miss the forest for the trees, though, and most people go on about how dark it is and shit, not getting the actual point. It's like people who fixate on the "Psychological" aspects of Eva without realizing it's a pastiche of 80s anime.
>>
>>101734063
>the only way to release a good mahou shoujo anime is by staying right the fuck clear of the cliches which already exist

This, that's why Precure is such a failure.
>>
>>101734064
By telling you to fuck off.
Watch more anime.

A lot of mahou shoujo have done all of this before. And QB isn't pervert.
>>
>>101734064
Turning something grimdark doesn't make it a deconstruction.
>>
File: re cutie honey 2.gif (1.51 MB, 250x141)
1.51 MB
1.51 MB GIF
>>101734127
>fight it had fighting

Fact it had fighting. Bleh.

>>101734136
Perverse isn't the same as pervert. And I'd say his bottom two points hold water.
>>
>>101733847
What about epoche of rule, anon? We see what happens when Sayaka becomes an automaton wearing the brand of 'justice'. She never stops to think the laws she follows until she's hurt herself and everyone around her.
>>
>>101734064
Because it pussied out in the ending. Madoka saves everyone with the power of selfless love.

In a real deconstruction, everyone turns into tang.
>>
>>101734136
>A lot of mahou shoujo have done all of this before

Oh yeah? Then why aren't they the most successful series post Evangelion?
>>
>>101734127
Forgot to mention that Transformation sequences directly tie in to the "before and after" theme of MS shows. They let you step out of the ordinary and become someone magical, and helps little girls relate to the characters.
>>
>>101734235
>Madoka's the most successful series post Eva.

I'm pretty sure even fucking Futagohime earned more.

And it was a better show too.
>>
>>101734294
Numbers or it never happened.
>>
>>101730362
You're right. Its because it features elements that are opposite of what you'd expect for a magical girl show. The main characters fail when trying to use the power of friendship and hope, the adorable power pet partner is actually tricking them all, they're not killing meanie monsters that have no form other than pure malice or whatever, the series isn't full of hope, and its aimed at an older audience as opposed to children.
>>
>>101734389
>>
>>101734235
>hen why aren't they the most successful series post Evangelion?
Because Ume-sensei + Claris + Kalafina + Aniplex marketing
>>
>>101734191
I should give it a rewatch since I don't remember that. Sayaka's wish certainly counts as another example though, with whatsisface not giving a fuck about her.
>>
>>101734389
>You're right. Its because it features elements that are opposite of what you'd expect for a magical girl show.

So did Sailor Moon 20 years ago.

>The main characters fail when trying to use the power of friendship and hope,

That's like ever mid season finale ever.

>the adorable power pet partner is actually tricking them all,

That was pretty unique.

>they're not killing meanie monsters that have no form other than pure malice or whatever,

Few MS shows have fighting to begin with, and many have sympathetic villains or redemption.

>and its aimed at an older audience as opposed to children.
>What is Nanoha
>>
>>101734159
Anon, please. Read up on "Deconstruction and the Possibility of Justice", and then come back to Madoka and take a look at what Sayaka and Madoka's roles are within the series. You can take it further by interpreting Homura's actions in Rebellion.
>>
>>101734477
Did Sailor Moon sell as much as Madoka? And what about Nanoha? No?
>>
>>101734477
>That was pretty unique.
Not really, he just stole the thing from Bokurano.
>>
>>101732292
Because Madoka is literally unlike anything that ever came before, just like Eva
>>
>>101734555
Sailormoon was a global success. The show aired pretty much everywhere.

Can't say the same thing about Madoka.
>>
>>101734609
>implying
>>
>>101734229
That's what Rebellion is for, anon.
>>
>>101734492
Turning something grimdark doesn't necessarily make it a deconstruction.

Do you disagree with this statement or not?
>>
>>101734555
Nanoha sold at least as well, and are you kidding about SM? That's gotta be like 10 times as successful as Madoka. It's fucking Sailor Moon.

>>101734561
Well, by that logic every twist is just taking something from another genre. For the MS genre, it was pretty neat.
>>
>>101734127

This is a really good point, I hadn't thought of it that way.
>>
>>101734229
>In a real deconstruction, everyone turns into tang.
>implying end of evangelion didn't have the happiest possible ending ever
Anyone who ever fucking died can come back if they want to.
>>
>>101734658
No one gives a shit about Sailor Moon while everybody keeps talking about Madoka.
>>
File: carlos.jpg (16.89 KB, 210x240)
16.89 KB
16.89 KB JPG
>>101734561
Bokurano is a deconstruction of musical chairs.
>>
>>101734692
Epik b8 m8

>>101734682
It's fine, these threads are just trolling anyways.

>>101734723
HOLY SHIT
>>
>>101734692
>No one gives a shit about Sailor Moon while everybody keeps talking about Madoka.
On /a/ maybe.
But that only because Sailor Moon right now isn't relevant - Atleast till the remake airs.

Not that the Madoka discussion on /a/ isn't dead.
Madokafags are just cancerous now with their 24/7 circlejerk threads.

>HOMUHOMU
>I want to sniff Kyoukos farts
>Can lesbians get pregnant via magic?
>Why is Madoka so epic?
>Hey guys! I found this fanfic about Sayaka and Kyouko on tumblr! Share opinions plox!
>>
>>101734643
I completely agree. Deconstruction is about forward thinking. When you follow a law, calculation, axiom, etc., deconstruction seeks to make sure that this always includes a variable aspect to it, an incalculable problem which requires free thinking in order to re-institute law.

Sorry anon, I'm going a bit further than TVTropes connotation here.
>>
>>101734814
>But that only because Sailor Moon right now isn't relevant

It hasn't been relevant for the last 15 years while Madoka has been the most discussed anime in the last 3 years and not only on /a/.
>>
>>101734882
Because 4chan and other places are 15 years old right?

>Madoka live discussion threads on /a/ : 6000
>EVA live discussion threads on /a/: 0

>EVAFANBOYS GETTING RAPED HARD GUYS!
>>
Madoka is only good art if it is meta-art, because it contains no actual relevance to modern life. There are no magical girls or witches so there's no real lesson that can be gleaned from the series that is applicable to the real world. If it has any value it must be as a commentary on the artform.
>>
>>101734689
He's wrong anyway. If anything ever becomes static, it ceases to be deconstructive. By re-instituting human freedom, Shinji successively gives us a deconstructive ending. Likewise, if we knew what happened after EoE, it would no longer be deconstructive.
>>
File: 1366773550484.jpg (150.77 KB, 427x427)
150.77 KB
150.77 KB JPG
IS MADOKA A DECONSTRUCTION?

First off, these kind of arguments are pretty pointless in the first place. Why? Because we all know nobody actually fucking cares if this show is a "deconstruction." People who like Madoka are really saying "this show is objectively sophisticated" (trying to imply that people who disagree don't really even get why it's good) and people who don't like Madoka are saying "this show is not objectively sophisticated" (and are either rationalizing their dislike of the show, or are reacting to the emotional tone of people trying to tell them that Madoka is objectively sophisticated).
So, no matter what is said, it'll be almost impossible to change anyone’s minds on this shit because everyone has a hidden emotional agenda.

So I'll start by announcing my bias: I love Madoka. I think it is sophisticated, though I suspect that a lot of it's sophistication is accidental. So keep that in mind.

But is Madoka a deconstruction?
All languages change over time. New words become part of the language. Old words die out. Slang becomes part of "standard English." If every single person in the anime community starts using the words "deconstruction" and "reconstruction" to describe certain anime, guess what? It /becomes/ part of the language (at least in our subculture). So, I think we should be concerned with what is generally meant in the anime community by what a deconstruction is, and this should be an orthogonal argument to "if our definition of deconstruction is identical to literature's." Additionally, the existence of the term "reconstruction" in the anime community makes me suspect that we now have our own terminology that is separate from literature's definitions (I do not know what a reconstruction is in literature, and I suspect there isn't an equivalent term in the context of Derrida's deconstruction).
>>
Several magical girl shows have the enemies be corrupted humans and whatnot, but have any other shows dealt with magical girls inevitably becoming the enemy (or dying)?
>>
>>101734944
You sound upset.
>>
>>101734631
>>101734689

>Taking every retconning post series money-grab movie as canon.

Draw the line somewhere, or we'll never have a solid base for discussing a story.
>>
>>101734723
That's not a pun. Put your Carlos away.
>>
Hey guys, if you want, in anime context, how actual, 20th-century deconstruction works, read this article on Bokurano. It's the best I could find on short notice.
http://mangawidget.net/2010/07/13/philosophy_of_bokurano/
>>
>>101735049
You said absolutely nothing.
>>
>>101735057
Not really.
If i would be mad than i would now tell you to go back to /b/ for playing the ''UMAD card''
>>
>>101734235
I don't get it, I read Madokafans saying this a lot of times, are they really this ignorant?
Madoka is not the best seller post-EVA and it's not even the most profitable franchise post-EVA, where did you people get that idea?
>>
>>101735049
[continued]
The anime-community's definition of deconstruction (I think) is something that revisits a genre or theme and attempts to do something extremely different with that theme, so much so that the tone of the whole thing changes completely. Deconstructions typically take a childish genre and make it have more adult themes (but they are not limited to doing just that). Reconstructions, a term that (correct me if I'm wrong) seems unique to anime, is something that attempts to embrace the tone of a genre or theme. Reconstructions change the genre by adding different content that ends up reinforcing the emotions of the genre. So Gurren Lagann is a reconstruction because it builds on the emotions of "feeling like a badass" by continually exponentially expanding the power level of the characters' abilities. Additionally, it takes it one step further and incorporates that emotion in the main philosophical disagreement between the two main philosophies (spirals vs antispirals). Spirals accept exponential expansion, while antispirals oppose it.
So my point in this writing is to basically try to extinguish this debate by pointing out that what is meant by “deconstruction” in the anime community does not have to be the same thing as what is meant by Derrida's definition, even if she came up with it first.
More importantly, if you want to fight over whether our definition of deconstruction is the same has Derrida’s definition, you are probably just rationalizing your desire for Madoka to be sophisticated/not-sophisticated.
If you actually want to argue why Madoka’s sophisticated, why not attempt to discuss what new concepts it brings to the table, rather than pigeonholing it into fitting into some 1960’s term?
>>
>>101735328

>>101734364
>>
>>101735086
That's the thing, anon. Deconstruction is to never be satisfied with a static ending. No law is perfection. “A decision that did not go through the ordeal of the undecidable would not be a free decision, it would only be the programmable application or unfolding of a calculable process.”

Everyone who thinks Episode 12 ends with everything neatly solved is completely missing the point of deconstruction as analysis. There is no end to it. That's why Homura addresses the problems with Madoka's world and says, "That's why, I'll keep on fighting."
>>
File: 1368398801852.gif (2.18 MB, 421x384)
2.18 MB
2.18 MB GIF
>>101735049
>>101735420

>>101735328
Don't take those trolls serious. Nobody for real thinks that Madoka is this big. And not even EVA is at the top. Shit like Gundam or Precure or One Piece make far more money.
>>
>>101735112
Do you still think that after you read the second part?
>>
>>101735527
No, I actually agree with you now, didn't know you were doing a two-part post.
>>
>>101735471
>Deconstruction is to never be satisfied with a static ending

Fucking this, just like 5 Centimeters per Second is a deconstruction of its genre too.
>>
Tutu > Madoshit
>>
>>101735512
>Nobody for real thinks that Madoka is this big

It's like you're blind or something.
>>
>>101735512
>Nobody for real thinks that Madoka is this big
>third movie will sell more than 100K in its first week
>not big
>>
>>101735762
EVA sells this x3 and isn't even the king.

Your late night anime shit will never be able to compete with the big shows that air mid days or in the morning.
>>
File: 1384600264316.jpg (45.53 KB, 848x480)
45.53 KB
45.53 KB JPG
>>101735420
I agree with your point towards most anime, but anime that end on no certain terms like Evangelion, Madoka, Bokurano, Rebellion, etc., never cease to deconstruct.

For example, everyone thought Madoka's Law of Cycles was a reconstruction, until Homura went and cracked it. Not only that, but Rebellion ends on very uncertain terms and implies new beginnings. This is what deconstruction is. It is the infinite progress toward the horizon.
>>
>>101735618

Edgy
>>
>>101735328
They compare the two because they're both shows with actually literary merit to them, unlike the three franchises you just mentioned. How is that not obvious? Oh, you're fourteen and you don't see the themes.
>>
>>101735762
>100K

Nigga, it'll surpass K-On's numbers in the first week. How much it was? 160K?
>>
>>101730073
It's been agreed that using "deconstruction" to describe a type of anime is retarded and incorrect use of the word.
"Deconstruction" is limited to critics and analysts breaking down the meaning behind an artistic work, be it literary or gook toon.
>>
>001 Anpanman-------7.82%-------119,959,000,000
>003 Pokemon-------6.00%-------92,040,000,000
>005 One Piece-------4.23%-------64,888,200,000
>006 PreCure series-------4.14%-------63,507,600,000
>011 Gundam series-------2.19%-------33,594,600,000
>019 Doraemon-------1.24%-------19,021,600,000
>021 Jewelpet-------1.21%-------18,561,400,000
>025 Miku Hatsune-------0.73%-------11,198,200,000
>029 Neon Genesis Evangelion-------0.61%-------9,357,400,000
>035 Dragon Ball series-------0.50%-------7,670,000,000
>037 Totoro-------0.44%-------6,749,600,000
>039 Madoka Magica-------0.43%-------6,596,200,000
>041 Naruto-------0.40%-------6,136,000,000
>051 Natsume Yuujinchou-------0.34%-------5,215,600,000
>052 Tiger and Bunny-------0.33%-------5,062,200,000
>054 Vocaloid-------0.30%-------4,602,000,000
>056 Fate series-------0.30%-------4,602,000,000
>060 Yu-Gi-Oh-------0.28%-------4,295,200,000
>062 Gintama-------0.26%-------3,988,400,000
>067 Kuroko's Basketball-------0.23%-------3,528,200,000
>069 UtaPrince-------0.21%-------3,221,400,000
>074 Detective Conan-------0.19%-------2,914,600,000
>075 Bakemonogatari-------0.18%-------2,761,200,000
>078 Macross-------0.16%-------2,454,400,000
>080 Prince of Tennis-------0.15%-------2,301,000,000
>081 Shin-chan-------0.15%-------2,301,000,000
>083 Persona series-------0.15%-------2,301,000,000
>086 Toriko-------0.13%-------1,994,200,000
>087 Strike Witches-------0.13%-------1,994,200,000
>089 Jojo's Bizarre Adventure-------0.12%-------1,840,800,000
>100 Nanoha series-------0.10%-------1,534,000,000

That's fiscal 2012
>>
>>101735955
>2012

Madoka is two or three times bigger now.
>>
>>101735955
>>006 PreCure series-------4.14%-------63,507,600,000
>>039 Madoka Magica-------0.43%-------6,596,200,000

So much for Mahou Shoujo
>>
>>101735987
Post your chart or shut the fuck up.
>>
>>101735955
95% of those are pure garbage.
>>
>>101735955
you realize miku hatsune is higher than vocaloid on this list, right?
>>
>>101736075
That's just showing how irrelevant the rest of vocaloid is.
>>
>>101736060
I don't need a chart, I just open my eyes.
>>
>>101736111
You sure are convincing everyone.
>>
>>101735955
Madoka is the most profitable franchise post Eva they said.
>>
>>101736166
Madoka is good they said.
>>
>>101735955
This takes into account Rebellion? Because it was pretty big and still going.
>>
>>101736105
it says "vocaloid" and not "all other vocaloid except miku"
I'm pointing out there'a contradictory fact on that list
>>
>>101735920
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/derrida/#Dec
Again, Junko in Ep 6 is giving a very, very simple analogy for deconstruction. If this makes sense to you, feel free to pursue the subject further.

If it does not make sense, feel free to call the anime pretentious and 2deep4u in a feeble attempt to conceal your ignorance.

Deconstruction is -not- limited. In fact, the premise is that there is not a limit. It's a continuous journey of free thinking, of not stopping to accept an axiom as a self-contained truth.
>>
File: Top sales.png (357.32 KB, 1807x790)
357.32 KB
357.32 KB PNG
>>101736166
Just like Madoka is the best seller post EVA
>>
>>101736235
They are seperate entries because Miku goes beyond vocaloid.
>>
>>101736257
Agreed, Nagi no Asukara confirmed for deconstruction of the Umi genre.
>>
>>101736257
2deep4me

no seriously, maybe i'll come back to this when I'm not still struggling with sociology 101.
>>
>>101736329
Too deep and dark for me.
>>
>>101736166
>Madoka is the most profitable franchise post Eva they said.

(1973) >001 Anpanman---7.82%----119,959,000,000
(1996) >003 Pokemon--6.00%---92,040,000,000
(1997) >005 One Piece----4.23%---64,888,200,000
(2004) >006 PreCure series----4.14%---63,507,600,000
(1979) >011 Gundam series----2.19%----33,594,600,000
(1969) >019 Doraemon---1.24%----19,021,600,000
(2008) >021 Jewelpet-----1.21%-----18,561,400,000
(2007) >025 Miku Hatsune-----0.73%-------11,198,200,000
(1995) >029 Neon Genesis Evangelion----0.61%--9,357,400,000
(1984) >035 Dragon Ball series---0.50%---7,670,000,000
(1988) >037 Totoro----0.44%---6,749,600,000
(2011) >039 Madoka Magica--0.43%---6,596,200,000
(1997) >041 Naruto----0.40%---6,136,000,000
(2005) >051 Natsume Yuujinchou---0.34%---5,215,600,000
(2011) >052 Tiger and Bunny----0.33%----5,062,200,000
(2000) >054 Vocaloid---0.30%-------4,602,000,000
(2004) >056 Fate series-------0.30%-------4,602,000,000
(1996) >060 Yu-Gi-Oh----0.28%---4,295,200,000
(2003) >062 Gintama---0.26%---3,988,400,000
(2008) >067 Kuroko's Basketball-------0.23%-------3,528,200,000
(2010) >069 UtaPrince-------0.21%-------3,221,400,000
(1994) >074 Detective Conan-------0.19%-------2,914,600,000
(2006) >075 Bakemonogatari-------0.18%-------2,761,200,000
(1982) >078 Macross-------0.16%-------2,454,400,000
(1999) >080 Prince of Tennis-------0.15%-------2,301,000,000
(1990) >081 Shin-chan-------0.15%-------2,301,000,000
(1996) >083 Persona series-------0.15%-------2,301,000,000
(2008) >086 Toriko-------0.13%-------1,994,200,000
(2005) >087 Strike Witches-------0.13%-------1,994,200,000
(1987) >089 Jojo's Bizarre Adventure-------0.12%-------1,840,800,000
(2004) >100 Nanoha series-------0.10%-------1,534,000,000
>>
>>101736166
>>101736190
But guys, do you not see the difference between Mado/NGE and everything above them?

The others were planned from the start to be multimedia franchises, while Madoka and Eva (And Doraemon/Totoro, to be fair) began as late-night anime (manga for Doraemon).

Madoka really is the most successful anime franchise since NGE in that sense.
>>
>>101736529
>One Piece
>planned from the start to be multimedia franchise
>>
>>101736529
What aboute One Piece?
>>
>>101736529
If we're going to nitpick, then I'd say Madoka is the biggest franchise if we disregard, 70's, 80's and 90's shows. Also, Toei productions don't count because they are too big if we compare them with SHAFT.
>>
>>101736641
One piece is casual taste, even gangster from my past school known one piece.
>>
File: 1372262370367.png (77.42 KB, 500x500)
77.42 KB
77.42 KB PNG
>>101736529
>MADOKA IS THE BIGGEST SUCCESS SINCE EVA
>shows proof that this is wrong
>THOSE SHOWS DON'T COUNT
>>
>>101736619
>>101736641
>One Piece
>most successful anime franchise
Sorry guys, I know it gets really confusing because semantics semantics, but the original argument is that Madoka and NGE started as the 'little guys'. They were just late-night TV anime and became much greater than that.
>>
>>101736844
>They were just late-night TV anime and became much greater than that.

Madoka and EVA air in the morning now and are normalfag shows?
>>
A deconstructon is when you take the tropes that make up a certain genre (in this case, Magical girls) and show how they either fail, have a darker side to them, or turn those tropes completely on their heads.

Madoka does a lot of this, with the intent being that the story enhances your affection towards the protagonists, giving them a different layer of sympathy.

So yes, it is a deconstruction, but it is not a complete deconstruction, as they never fully move away from the core of the magical girl genre - it has enough of both constructed and deconstructed elements to work.
>>
>>101732592
Don't Hug Me I'm Scared is pretty intellectual when compared to Sesame Street.
>>
>>101736836
Sorry, anyone who said that is making much too vague of a statement and is missing the point of why Madoka is compared to Eva. NGE wasn't the biggest success of its time, either. It was just a late-night anime that surpassed the escape velocity needed to become a killer franchise. It still paled in comparison to a lot of powerful franchises, but none of them got their big break in 1 am timeslots, haha. (Funny story, NGE actually started with an evening timeslot and didn't do too well. It took off once it was moved to late-night TV and appealed to dirty shut-ins like us.)
>>
>>101737087
>Sorry, anyone who said that is making much too vague of a statement and is missing the point of why Madoka is compared to Eva.
It is so because Madokafags take every quote from the average japanese man serious.
>>
>>101736876
NGE has more of a soft, subdued popularity with normals, but have you seen Madoka's popularity with little girls?
>>101737063
Oh yeah, they just released a sequel to that. I'm still trying to piece out what I watched.
>>
>>101737122
pretty much. "A man comes from yaraon with numbers! Hail the soothsayer! Shower him in praise!"
>>
So, what I can take from this is that most of /a/ thinks they're superior because they can parrot, "no, this isn't what deconstruction means guys."

It's like telling a guy that the sky is blue, and rebuts, "um, no. Sonic the Hedgehog is blue. The sky is not Sonic the Hedgehog, therefore it is not blue."
>>
File: cooltext1419302771.gif (97.87 KB, 407x43)
97.87 KB
97.87 KB GIF
>>
>>101737590
It's always tough to word correctly. Basically, Madoka is an example of deconstruction at work. It's not 'a deconstruction'.
>>
File: image.png (18.62 KB, 904x143)
18.62 KB
18.62 KB PNG
>>
>>101737959
>>101738039
I don't get it.
>>
>>101737959
>>101738039
>Wow, everyone fucking wrecked me in this thread. Maybe I just won't reply to them. I'll just keep shitposting like I didn't get completely told.
>>
Madoka is overrated as fuck. Look at NGE. There were serious budget issues throughout the series and it still influences anime to this day.

How much in the industry has Madoka actually changed?
>>
>>101738370
How much has a show that aired three years ago changed an industry where the production process typically takes 2-3 years? Come on anon, you are shitting me right?
>>
>>101738370
>How much in the industry has Madoka actually changed?
No way because Madoka isn't original. Aniplex is making lots of money with it but you cannot copy success that you bought with huge investments.
>>
>>101738424
You'll be saying that 10 years from now along with some other excuse.

Madoka is good but nowhere near on the levels of NGE. Stop trying to compare them.
>>
>>101738512
Wow, looks like someone is not paying attention to the industry! Madoka is the greatest anime to grace japan and our lives today. Mark my words, it will be the most influential anime of all time. Screen capture and put me in the archive. Seriously, name me 5 anime that NGE influenced? I'll give you a minute. That's right you can't!

Now here are the anime inspired by Madoka:
- Hokago no Pleiades
- Koike's mahou shojo manga
- Vividred Operation
- New Sailor Moon anime
- Prism Nana
- Il Sole Penetra le Illusioni
- Little Witch Academia
- Majocco Shimai no Yoyo to Nene
- Fate/kaleid liner PRISMA☆ILLYA
- Fantasista Doll
- Earth Maiden Arjuna


Thus Madoka is more influential that Evangelion. And this list will surely grow over time.
>>
File: 1373807211647.jpg (23.74 KB, 396x360)
23.74 KB
23.74 KB JPG
No one knows what a deconstruction is. Protip: a show that is a deconstruction is not automatically good.
>>
>>101738512
No, I'm neutral. Stop making this a pissing contest. Not everyone is retarded like you and thinks everything is "us vs. them".

Whether or not shows take cues from Madoka remains to be seen, doesn't it?
>>
File: 1382599471211.png (28.31 KB, 625x626)
28.31 KB
28.31 KB PNG
>>101738562
I love how both sides are full of retards trying to bait each other. "I was pretending to be retarded!" "Well, I was pretending to be more retarded!"
>>
>>101738562
NGE influenced anime in such a profound way that you simply can't list anime influenced by it. All you're doing is listing new mahou shoujo anime without saying why it influenced them. With that logic I could say that NGE influenced every single anime released from now to then and still be more correct than.
>>
>>101738588
>No one knows what a deconstruction is
>"I didn't read the thread."
Nothing is 'a deconstruction.' Deconstruction is the process, a way of thinking, always changing. It always exists in the future, but never in the present.

If you're interested, google it and read some stuff Derrida that might help you better understand it.

Otherwise, don't try feebly to grasp concepts that go way over your head. You have to take flight and soar to their level, not dumb them down.
>>
File: 39790783.png (72.37 KB, 256x256)
72.37 KB
72.37 KB PNG
>>101736257
Deconstructionism is retarded
Derrida a shit
>>
>>101738736
No anon, it's copypasta. Step it up.
Before you try to defend yourself, I've never seen this pasta before. I just took the five seconds to foolz search it because it's such a retarded and flawed post that there's no way it isn't a parody of itself.
>>
>>101739029
Thanks anon.
>>
File: 1390497569519.jpg (62.29 KB, 800x600)
62.29 KB
62.29 KB JPG
>>101738979
Madokafags just mad that their perfect ending is flawed and deserved to be deconstructed.
>>
>>101738588
People do actually know what a deconstruction is. It's just that the word is being used for every damn anime under the sun that does things "differently" than the others and also to try and sound intelligent in discussion. Madoka Magica is not a fucking deconstruction and it's not the first anime to portray events and characters the way that it did.
>>
>>101739071
Yup, any time. Also I'm going to bed because I'm tired and end up insulting everyone I reply to.
Faggot.
>>
>>101739106
Except, if you knew what a deconstruction is, you would understand that the process isn't simply limited to tropes, and that the narrative of the story itself shows examples of deconstruction at play through the dramatism of the characters.



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.