Why did Fushimi decide to introduce more girls to the story? Can't we just enjoy the story of Kirino and Kyousuke without those unnecessary characters?
No wonder the second season of the anime was a big pile of shit.
Everything about Oreimo is shit.
Short answer: because muh harem.
Long answer: The ride isn't fun without the twists and turns, and no contest with only one contender exists.
That said, it is a disappointment to see the others relegated as the cheerleaders of the main pair.
Compare this with Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun where the interactions between the characters are better and more fun to read.
Let's admit it, Oreimo would had been 10 times better if Kirino had been 8 and still played imouto eroge.
>loli incest romance
That or an OAV of onsen LN chapter where Kirino almost molests one of Kuroneko's little sister.
He probably got bored of the side characters and brought in Sakurai to have a little fun.
His new main girl is a lot like a mix between Kirino and Sakurai.
He doing the story again, so maybe it will be better this time.
Worse than that, I think Fushimi added the others to extend the story from a possible run of five volume.
I won't hold my breath.
You could say that about any romance, though. The side characters are usually a method to move along the story, and in Oreimo's case they were interesting enough to gather sizeable fanbases of their own.
the whole show is one big pile of shit. what the fuck do you expect?
At least make their reactions to rejection realistic.
I mean that scene with the losers going full blast in helping Kyou find Kirino is cringeworthy because that's a really fast time for some to get over rejection.
>"Do you love me?"
>"I love someone else."
>"Can you help me get her to say yes?"
We Lolirino now
It didn't really happen like that at all, and neither Ayase or Kuroneko is 'over' the rejection by the end of the story. Kuroneko's still sour towards Kyousuke when they meet up.
Despite that, she's still their friend, and she knows they're tsundere and have trouble conveying feelings so she hastened the process as a favor/revenge.
>Why did Fushimi decide to introduce more girls to the story?
To be used a tools to get the Kirino and Kyousuke together, to highlight aspects of Kirino and show that Kyousuke is interested in other girls because he's reminded of Kirino, and to not make Kyousuke seem desperate or without options.
>Can't we just enjoy the story of Kirino and Kyousuke without those unnecessary characters?
We got that basically. The other characters were never had a chance. It's just that the initial conditions were terrible and they needed an outside push to realize they love each other.
The early estimate of how long the series was going to be was 10 volumes. By the time the anime came out, he had decided to end it at 12.
I would have expected her to move away from Chiba after that heartbreak. Unfortunately, she's just too attached to Kirino to go away.
If only we knew more about how Ayase took the rejection.
That's my problem. They were created as TOOLS, not as people. They were thrown away the moment they are found of no use.
>The early estimate of how long the series was going to be was 10 volumes. By the time the anime came out, he had decided to end it at 12.
Without the other characters, that would have been 5 volumes long.
Because harems are easier to write.
I disagree. The ride can be just as fun if its all uphill, that is to say, the relationship is steadily growing. There doesn't need to be drops, or drama in this case.
She doesn't really have other friends and Kirino and her are a lot closer than is let on.
All the other girls were only there to show how much Kyousuke needs Kirino. His decision to stay with her regardless of the consequences of what their relationship might have on their future, wouldn't have had nearly as much punch if he didn't have his own personal stake in it that he had given up just for his love. Basically, pic related. Thematically, their rejections are the first step he takes in accepting that he loves his sister enough to give everything else away in order to be with her. It's an important step. He's upset about it, just watch the Christmas confession where he says its such a waste. But he also says he doesn't regret it one bit.
In addition, the other girls offer contrast to their behavior to Kirino's in terms of supporting Kyousuke. Whereas Manami/Ayase/Kuroneko were unable to cope with Kyousuke being with another woman even if he is happy, Kirino was willing to support her brother if he wanted to be with another woman, even encouraging it, for the sake of his happiness. You can even look at it more superficially, where all the girls do something to help motivate Kyousuke to get an A on his mock exam, but Kirino made him a promise to do anything he wished if he aced the test, which served as a huge motivator for him to study. Kirino showed up after the test to walk him home and take him to the hospital if his injuries from Sayaka are bad.
In short, they are there to relate things back to Kirino and their relationship. They always were.
>That's my problem. They were created as TOOLS, not as people. They were thrown away the moment they are found of no use.
They're side characters. They have a function and Fushimi stuck to showing that. Even then, they're characters he got the audience attached and he kept them around enough to give them some closure too so I think they're pretty successful all around.
>Without the other characters, that would have been 5 volumes long.
But the side characters are there to help tell the story. Think about it this way. If you take Manami or Sakurai away, there wouldn't even be a story to tell. That's a bit on the extreme side though.
That's true and I hate it, especially when circumstances become as predictable as visual novel routes.
That's one of the reasons why I now hate Kuroneko. She's just too much emotional baggage.
>Whereas Manami/Ayase/Kuroneko were unable to cope with Kyousuke being with another woman even if he is happy, Kirino was willing to support her brother if he wanted to be with another woman, even encouraging it, for the sake of his happiness.
That's alarming. Kirino's willing to give away Kyousuke's heart, the same heart she stole from all those girls.
>I would have expected her to move away from Chiba after that heartbreak. Unfortunately, she's just too attached to Kirino to go away.
Honestly, I think that's what a shipper wants to see. Ignore the actual character and hope for some bull shit fanfiction scenario.
Kuroneko is characterized as being a fantastic friend but also with having a difficulty making them at all from the start. This never changes. She has no friends and as the story goes on she makes a few more thanks to Kirino and Kyousuke. To cut ties with them would be ridiculous for her character for a variety of reasons.
>That's alarming. Kirino's willing to give away Kyousuke's heart, the same heart she stole from all those girls.
She's giving priority to his happiness over her own. She thought he loved Kuroneko and wanted to be with her, which is why he tried to get them back together
>They were created as TOOLS, not as people
I disagree. And if you're going to use side characters to further the main plot, this is how you use them properly. All the characters act really realistically and have relatively complex motivations. Kuroneko's chuunibyou is basically a coping mechanism for her and that's something she needs to solve on her own, this comes to light mainly when she's rejected multiple times. Ayase desperately wants to have Kirino as a best friend and Kyousuke as a boyfriend, and when she's cornered and forced to choose one she starts to try and find a way out by manipulating Kirino into confessing and hopefully turning them into normal siblings. Manami is basically the first person they confront who tells them incest is wrong, so she's a pretty important obstacle for their relationship. I'm reminded of this line:
>Although I made an exaggerated comparison about this and a final battle, the truth was Manami was not a final boss. The last boss of this story, the enemy that we had to face had never showed itself.
>the relationship is steadily growing
But that's exactly what Oreimo is. Their relationship is growing and changing constantly in the story. Hell, that's basically the basis of why they can't just say "I love you" and fuck right away. Did you even read it?
>Even then, they're characters he got the audience attached and he kept them around enough to give them some closure too so I think they're pretty successful all around.
I don't think that "they stayed friends with the main couple" was enough closure for me.
>Honestly, I think that's what a shipper wants to see. Ignore the actual character and hope for some bull shit fanfiction scenario.
I admit, I rooted for Kyousuke and Ruri because they seem cute together, and it was heartbreaking to see their first falling apart. But the "burning bridges" scene turned things around. While Ruri still have a chance, I think she no longer deserves Kyousuke.
>She thought he loved Kuroneko and wanted to be with her, which is why he tried to get them back together
He did, though. I don't know why he'd not like Kuroneko to bawl his eyes out. I think Kyou does like Ruri, but this chuuni girl simply cannot choose between Kyousuke or Kirino's happiness. And to make things worse, Kyousuke's happiness = Kirino's happiness.
>I don't think that "they stayed friends with the main couple" was enough closure for me.
>Ayase full realization of how stupid she was in volume 2 and being more accepting of otaku by actually wanting to join the group
>Kuroneko finally getting her delusions shattered and dropping the selfish bullshit act she had early on
>Saori making up with her sister. (This one's actually bad and more of a "Play the PSP game" thing)
>Manami needs no mention but finally getting told by Kyousuke that he's deciding to take this path, not being forced by wanting to show off to someone but it being his own decision.
That's character closure. Ayase needed a bit more but I think that was good enough for her and adding it to the end would likely reinforce the harem bullshit of volume 10.
>While Ruri still have a chance, I think she no longer deserves Kyousuke.
And that entire comment manages to be delusional and idiotic.
>I think Kyou does like Ruri
It's outright stated in his narration while he rejects her in volume 12 that he does. He even imagined marrying and having kids with her. Alas, he loved Kirino more, which is why he gave her the boot
>I don't think that "they stayed friends with the main couple" was enough closure for me.
If you want to look them it three-dimensionally, as people, which is kind of what you're asking for, you can say that them being rejected is part of them maturing romantically. I think all of the girls fell in love with Kyousuke for superficial reasons. Kuroneko because he was nice to her over a period of three months, (ironic because he was mainly doing that because he saw her as a replacement for Kirino and it only served to show him how lonely he is without her), Ayase because he helped her with her stalker problem and flirted with her over her body, Kanako because he complimented her, and Manami because...Well fuck, I guess we don't really know, just because they're childhood friends. The fact is that aside from Manami, the other 3 girls weren't in love with him, rather, they had a crush on him.
Unfortunately for people that care a lot about side characters, the story has always been revolving around Kirino and Kyousuke from the very first pages. So they don't matter as much, since Oreimo was written for a conclusion between siblings, not between the side characters.
Also, I would argue that them not getting closure is a good thing. If we had gotten closure, that would mean their stories are done and no longer relevant, when it's obvious that it's the opposite. Also, we know Kuroneko still has contact with them and at least wants to to not be bitter.
Read the LNs.
Because virtually nobody actually wants to put effort into writing a good one right?
To bait otaku and /a/utist dick, and the fact that this thread exists in an attempt to "analyze" what little plot it has shows that it worked.
Hilarious. Please keep going.
>That's character closure. Ayase needed a bit more but I think that was good enough for her and adding it to the end would likely reinforce the harem bullshit of volume 10.
I'm expecting a closure at par with the Toradora ending, with Minori giving up her saving for Ryuji and Taiga and Ami giving her moral support for the two.
One big difference is that despite their support, neither of them were happy about being turned down.
>And that entire comment manages to be delusional and idiotic.
Sorry. Still mad about the "burning bridges" thing.
I'm considering a reread of the whole thing since we're soon approaching Valentine's Day soon.
I wonder what the little girl is saying to Kirino that's making her blush
Good idea. Rereading it in perspective of what's important and what character actions is really rewarding.
>story not pandering to lolicon and haremfag also has very good realistic plot
Are you dense. She's asking for a piggyback ride/to climb up on her shoulders. Kirino has such a huge little sister fetish that she's completely flustered, whereas Kyousuke is good at dealing with little girls because he has is own little sister. It's just an amusing contrast.
I'm not gonna guarantee that I would be calm after everything is over. I will rage and rage hard, and that's a sign that Fushimi had done his job.
To be fair, I never looked at it that way either.
>Minori and Ami
That's practically what happens with Kuroneko and Ayase. They were hurt, but they continue to be friends. Ayase isn't mentioned but the events are basically a repeat of Volume 2.
If only we actually know what's inside their heads rather than leaving much of the story to Kyousuke's POV...
>Ayase isn't mentioned but the events are set up to basically be a repeat of Volume 2.
And by that I mean that Ayase has to decide if she should continue being friends with Kirino based on a part of Kirino she discovered.
You have read the pastebin, haven't you? If you've read the LNs and given them at least a tiny bit of thought you shouldn't need to in order to understand the ending.
Or are you raging over something else? Kuroneko's rejection is much more emotional in the LNs and Kyousuke has a lot of thoughts about it that show he isn't just shutting her down to be a dick. And Ayase and his relationship have more development due to the stalker arc and a few other things that were cut, namely the chapter from her perspective. Manami's subplot and the Vol11 epilogue being present of course helps to show how important her romantic feelings are. And Kanako has a few more bits too.
I'm only saying this because I don't believe you've read them. But they are really good.
If you're raging over your ship being wrecked, I think you're going to end up raging even more since rereading makes it clear how the other girls didn't have a chance at all.
Ayase's chapter helps a lot, and Kuroneko is easy enough to understand by her actions IMO. She's butthurt but she's starting to come to terms with the fact that her Ideal World will never exist.
But you don't need it in this case. Kuroneko says that she'll keep on following them in her last scene. Ayase doesn't have something so clear, but her character development implies that she has reached that same conclusion as Kuroneko or will reach it after Kirino and Kyousuke talk to her. Like I said >>101671052
I have read the pastebin and rushed through the LN translations. Still, there's something with Oreimo that leaves me disgruntled compared to all the other incest stories I encountered. I don't know what it is, but it got me hard.
I supported Ayase and Ruri.
I even played this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhzKkC_fVc) when Ayase was defeated in the anime.
I breezed through the series, but the reread would be much slower. I have an imagination vivid enough to recreate entire scenes like in an anime (although it would look like a SHAFT production due to the words involved) so I should be fine until the scenes get the better of me.
That said, I think
These illustrations are based on fanfic ideas that spawn from 2ch's Kirino threads:
>Kyousuke and Kirino are working at a daycare, both are popular with the kids
>the kids call them "Kyou-sensei" and "Kirino-sensei"
>one of the kids is crying, Kirino comes up to her, asks him what's wrong
>she's lonely because he has no parents/her parents didn't come to get him (bad Jap, sorry)
>Kirino tells her that she can call her "Mama"
>the other kids want to call her that too, Kirino allows it
>the crying kid asks who's the "Papa"
>Kirino is at loss, kid starts crying again
>Kyousuke arrives on the scene, kid asks if she can call him "Papa"
>he allows it, taunts Kirino a bit about it
>Kirino gets flustered
>other kids ask her if they got married
>Kirino get even more flustered, kids taunt her about how red her face got
>kids run away from her as she follows them around
>crying girl from the beginning asks if Kyousuke loves Kirino
>he says he does, and treasures her the most in the entire world
>girl says Kirino is the same, as she heard Kirino say it once
>Kyousuke puts the girl on his shoulders, goes over to Kirino and the other kids to play
Oh, disregard the "That said, I think" part.
That's funny and heartwarming. Nice to see 2chgoers aren't all faggot waifu shippers. But there's no way anyone could glean that from the image alone.
>rushed through the LN translations
Ya blew it. You might as well have not read them at all. You actually have to digest them to understand what some things mean since a lot of it is subtle foreshadowing or themes that the narrator certainly isn't going to point out for you. I'm not saying it's super deep but it's not something you can skim since so much of it comes from the narration and the dialogue.
That wiki has so many shortstories/fanfics. Makes me want to learn jap.
But that's what they are. The ship winning and some of these being really close to canon does help them a lot.
I'd post that old pic with Kirino listening in on Kyousuke vs Daisuke from volume 1 but I can't find it.
Well, I hope I understand it this time.
Fuck I am so jealous of Kyousuke
As far Ayase and Kuroneko losing goes, it's less a matter of understanding and more that the LNs are much more Kirino centric so it's obvious she's the main heroine. That, and everything is just better developed. Just don't go into it with a bunch of expectations, I guess.
Anyway, enjoy them. I thought they were a lot more fun than the anime.
I thought the artist did a good job. That was my first thought looking at the image.
"That's cute, these Kindergarteners are asking if Kyousuke and Kirino are a couple and Kirino is typically getting flustered about it."
That was before I even noticed the umbrella of love.
And that was before I noticed
I never understood the point of the umbrella. What does it mean?
It's symbolic of how Kirino needed an umbrella when Kyousuke the first time she made him cum
Fuck that really didn't come out right. Have a picture of Kirino after he came inside
In Japan you draw an umbrella and your name goes on one side, the name of the person you love goes on the other.
I think there may be more to it than that, but it's basically romantic symbolism. Two people, one couple, under an umbrella.
How much do you love her?
Glad to see you back
>Long answer: The ride isn't fun without the twists and turns, and no contest with only one contender exists.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the only way I would recognize any of those things as twists and or turns, would have been if any of the other girls actually won.
Kirino is the titular character. You really could question what the other characters were even there for.
>You really could question what the other characters were even there for.
Read the thread. They have a purpose.
More than Kyousuke.
I don't think they mean literal "What a twist!"s. Just the way the narrative weaved around and got to where it was going. Weaved as in spun a tale.
I like this series, but take away all the characters and there's not much drama and fun. I definitely wouldn't question what they're there for, this story is based on the interplay between characters after all.
I think it's worth noting how the author was forced to make certain pairings more relevant when he did not actually think the pairing was viable. The most obvious of examples is Kuroneko. I believe that pairing caused some issues that would later need to be fixed by adding Ayase, Kanako and to some extent Saori. In the end, he got it to make sense.
However, you'll still get shippers to ignore pretty much every aspect of the series and ask idiotically: "What's the point of adding the girls if they're just going to be used to tell the story?"
Sena is awesome.