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Can Cowboy Bebop's Creator Make More People Take Anime Seriously?

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/01/can-em-cowboy-bebop-em-s-creator-make-more-people-take-anime-seriously/282806/

>Evangelion has been credited with advancing a more serious study of anime in Japan, but thanks in part to its use of mecha (giant mobile robots piloted by humans; think Pacific Rim’s Jaegers), it was deemed too alienating and foreign for most Western audiences at the time, despite the fact that it subverted that mecha genre.

>Shortly after Evangelion ended, Watanabe entered the scene. Born in 1965 in Kyoto, Watanabe grew up during the golden days of Tezuka and the first anime boom. As an employee of Sunrise studio, he worked on storyboards and co-directed projects, before making his full directorial debut with Cowboy Bebop in 1998. The series, about a crew of space bounty hunters in the year 2071, referenced spaghetti westerns, film noir, and Hong Kong action movies, with each episode dedicated to a different style of music, like the titular bebop. It was a huge success, and the first anime series to show on Adult Swim when it launched in 2001. Critics loved the jazz and blues-inspired soundtrack, the elegant film noir style, and existential themes. Along with Evangelion, it’s been called one of the greatest anime series of all time, and it is arguably the single most popular “serious” anime among Americans.

Why do they always ignore Madoka Magica in this kind of article?
>>
Because Madoka on the outside is a bunch of 12 year old schoolgirls in tutus?
>>
>>101622405
>>101622304
Because Madoka isn't aimed at normalfags and westerners.
>>
>>101622443
Obviously. It's a 21st century anime that panders towards otaku.
>>
>>101622405
What the fuck is Madoka even about? I just see a bunch of school girls. It's not compelling me to watch it.
>>
>>101622304
Because it's shit.

Yeah, had to be that guy.
>>
Because it's little girls following orders of some rabbit cat.

Psycho Pass and Fate/Zero are the stories of Gen who might have more western appeal.
>>
How is madoka influential or amazing at all. Its literally higurashi with magical girls.
>>
>>101622405

Yeah. Madoka is really good, but it sure as hell makes no effort to expand outside traditional audiences. It's very much a series for people who are already familiar with at least the basic tropes of anime. Cowboy Bebop and Space Dandy, on the other hand, is more accessible. There's parts of them which are very Japanese, but Americans are quite familiar with the basic idea of people exploring space going on wacky adventures.
>>
>>101622488

Faustian bargains and time travel.
>>
>>101622488

A dark anime where little girls give up their lives to protect the ignorant masses from invisible monsters and reality warpers... Zzzzz
>>
>>101622488
>SUFFERING
>SYMBOLISM
>ENTROPY
>TIME TRAVEL
>RIPING OFF KAMEN RIDER
>>
>>101622304
Why do they blame mecha when Westerns don't usually care for anime because it's just japanese cartoons?
>>
Because only neckbeard virgins think Meduka is good.
>>
>>101622549
Is that the same reason why Space Dandy gets high as hell ratings on Toonami, but its sales in Nipland are tanking worse than a tank battle during a war?
>>
Can LOGH's creator make more people take anime seriously?
>>
The west likes grimdark anti hero protagonists. These kind of protagonists exists in anime but they're typically in shows meant for young teens to watch
>>
The only thing I remember about in Madoka Magica is a beheading. The rest was really plain and boring.
>>
not even anime can escape cultural marxism
>>
>>101622488
Suffering
Yuri pandering
Crying a lot
Unexplored themes
>>
>>101622304
Hopefully not.
>>
The same reason why most anime is ignored by most people.
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Can LOGH's creator make more people take anime seriously?

No, so stop trying
>>
>>101622672
>I saw part of an episode of Madoka Magica once, let me tell you all about how lame and dumb this show is.
>>
>>101622744
That's an adaption of a novel though
>>
>>101622304
USA hates japan and are only willing to watch if goes waaaay far from what anime actually is, pandering.
Be it for children,manchildren,teenagers,women,gay men japan is always about pandering to someone willing to pay.
Jesus is it that hard to accept that some people are so insecure that won't watch any kind of cartoon at all? I've actually met people who won't even watch movies or tv just to look smart, the world is full of tryhards and the "otaku" folk from DA tumblr and the likes was the nail in the coffin, enjoy your obscure and socially unaccepted hobbie, you can brag about it with your local hipster scene.
>>
White people can bitch and scream about anime not being what they like but at the end of the day otaku are going to be buying merchandise and they're not.
>>
>>101622809
>USA hates japan
Speak for yourself.
>>
I'm sure an anime about a guy who lives tits and ass in space will be the show to make people take anime more seriously.
>>
>>101622873
I meant likes, not lives.
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>>101622304
>toonami faglord voices his newfag opinion
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>>101622754
He said the rest was boring. That means he saw it and concluded its boring.
>>
>>101622822
Way to be racist. White people aren't the only outside of Japan.
>>
>>101622488
>What the fuck is Madoka even about

Schoolgirls and a really superficial understanding of physics

Oh yeah and plot-holes, lots of plot-holes
>>
>>101622304
The answer is obvious. Because Madoka doesn't appeal to western tastes the same way Bebop or Evangelion do and has not been a celebrated work for over a decade.

Also, it's not that great, bruh.
>>
>>101622559
Fuastian bargains you say? That's actually pretty compelling.
>>
>Why do they always ignore Madoka Magica in this kind of article?
Does Madoka reference:
>spaghetti westerns, film noir, and Hong Kong action movies, with each episode dedicated to a different style of music
No, it references German literature, which is not a bunch of shitty movies and therefore less likely to be appreciated by the average American
>>
>>101623097

It's not really though. It's a Monkey Paw situation.
>>
>>101623166
>Monkey Paw
Ok thats still pretty compelling. I guess I'll watch the series then.
>>
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>>101623103
>hating on spaghetti western, noir, Hong Kong action
What kind of sad, tragic monster are you?
>>
>>101623229

You should, it's pretty good. Until the motivations of QB are explained, then you start scratching your head at the idiocy of it all
>>
>>101622809
Sooo, west hates anime pandering to someone, and will only watch it once the anime panders to them.
>>
>>101623166

Doesn't really seem like a Monkey Paw as the wish is never really twisted, they get exactly what they asked for.
>>
>>101623022
>Evangelion
>Western tastes
Explain.
>>
>>101623398
The directing approach is very westernish at times
>>
>>101623335

It's much more similar to the Monkey Paw situation because they become a Lich in the process, not to mention Sayaka's wish.

Can't really characterize QB as the devil, also he is the one who initiates the contract, which goes against the core idea behind a Faustian bargain
>>
>>101622304
>Why do they always ignore Madoka Magica in this kind of article?
Because it's nowhere near the other two mentioned pieces? Also because westerners aren't exactly familiar with mahou shoujo.
>>
>>101623398
People don't spend 90% of their screentime making obvious remarks about what's happening or talking to themselves, at least not as much as in most anime.
This alone is enough of a turning point from anime and western directing
>>
>>101623577
>People don't spend 90% of their screentime making obvious remarks about what's happening or talking to themselves
You've got to be joking..
>>
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>>101623577
Nah, Evangelion is all about people talking to themselves about how they can't communicate with each other.
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>>101622488
Just...just watch it.
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>>101623783

The cinematography of NGE was God-tier
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>>101623859
Really the only good thing about it.
>>
>>101622809
>pandering
Except for HBO, almost every network in the US is 100% pandering. Look at how many fucking auction-related shows we have right now.
>>
>>101623920
>Except for HBO
>Except for HBO
>Except for HBO
>>
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>>101623909

If you don't enjoy a varied cast of complex character then yeah I guess
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>>101623909
You're obviously forgetting about someone, anon
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>>101623920
Thought for a second that you meant action. But yep, auction works too.
>>
>>101623103
>spaghetti westerns, film noir, and Hong Kong action movies
>shitty movies
>>
>>101623961

Yeah, how could he forget about Misato?
>>
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There is this thing called Bokurano ba Mohiro Kitoh

It's like Madoka, only it's actually good
>>
I think a big problem with Eva is that Westerners want a strong-willed, exciting lead character. Shinji's a total faglord, and that turns people off.
>>
>>101623859
We all know this.
>>
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>>101624120
>Shinji's a total faglord
You better watch your tone
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>>101624120

You fucked now son
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>>101622744
Ishiguro's been dead for a while now.

;_;
>>
>>101624120
not true. luke from star wars starts off very whiny.
>>
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>>101624259
But Shinji's love interest is Asuka, not Rei
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>>101624367

You can have more then one love-interest
>>
>>101624367
>Possible love interest
Besides eva wasn't about the romance subplots other than to illuminate the condition of the characters.
>>
>>101624357

Not to mention Holden Caulfield
>>
>>101624357
and it's a pretty common complaint about him.
>>
>>101624471

It was about inter-personal relationships and the self.

One thing I really love about Eva is how sexually concious the characters are.
You don't see that in anime often.
>>
>>101622304
I hope not.
>>
>>101622304
Because Madoka a shit.
>>
>>101624478
And Werther, and Hamlet...
>>
>>101624259
I think that's the point of Madoka. She's supposed to be passive through pretty much the entire thing, at least until she goes godmode.

I don't think she would be popular in the West either.
>>
>>101624542
yes but no one is hating on the entire franchise due to one character.
>>
>>101622809
>I've actually met people who won't even watch movies or tv just to look smart
Good goyim.
>>
>>101624589

Well I wanted to stay in the 20th century but yeah the whole Romantic era is filled with "whiny bitches"

Weltschmerz was a thing in the west
>>
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>>101622633
>>
>>101623491
>>101623577
No, Evangelion was popular because:
1) It gave western fans their first taste of pseudo-intellectual babble and lol!symbolism which they could use to justify their monster-of-the-week robot cartoon as "edgy", "mature" and "deep"
1) An ENORMOUS (but admittedly ingenious) marketing effort by ADV to convince casuals of the same thing (particularly those who watched the show, didn't understand squat, but still took ADV's word it was 2deep4them)
>>
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They won't take anime seriously if you put out stuff like Space andy.
>>
>>101624840

NGE was popular because it's actually good unlike Madoka
>>
>>101624840
Those ADV guys must be marketing geniuses, to create such a long lasting effect through sheer marketing prowess, they must have a De Beers level of control of their market.
>>
>>101624913
I never said I wasn't "good", just not the "greatest fucking anime ever made", as its more rabid fans like to proclaim.
>>
>>101624367
At no point in NGE or EoE is Shinji shown to love or even like Asuka. The tension is all on her side.
>>
>>101625039
>just not the "greatest fucking anime ever made"

It's up there, certainly the defining work of the 90's
>>
Because Princess Tutu is better than Madoka.
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>>101625124

Lets not forget Utena
>>
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No because a person cannot change the culture. Blending cute girls and feminist ideals cannot end well. And if all I wanted were burly guys and gun-toting sassy women I'd be watching Hollywood.

Japan is all about exploring beauty. 80% of anime is about beauty, whether it's female or friendship or sacrifice. The West is all about gritty, edgy srs bsn, righteous aggression, elaborate scheming and "empowering" women. Many would be too ashamed to admit liking cute little girls.

Try comparing Twelve Kingdoms and Game of Thrones, or Steins; Gate and Breaking Bad. It shows what each culture is interested in.
>>
Madoka has no /ss/. Best girl.
>>
>>101622809
>I've actually met people who won't even watch movies or tv just to look smart

i don't do it to look smart...
>>
>Why do they always ignore Madoka Magica in this kind of article?
Probably because it's fucking shit and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Bebop or Evangelion.
>>
>>101625230
>>>/v/
>>
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>>101625196

Oh Misato you lying little whore
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>>101625103
Visually? Sure. But story-wise there's plenty of 90s anime with far more accomplished writing.
>>
>>101625160
>empowering woman

Sure, in web comics released on deviantart drawn by feminist.
>>
>>101625160
But Anon, what about those of us that like our waifus to be terrifying? Balalalalalalalaika can't be called "cute"
>>
>>101625103
To me NGE gets the top spot but there's like half a dozen 90s works that I have no problem if they get ranked up there. after a certain threshold it's a matter of taste.
>>
>>101625270
>But story-wise there's plenty

No, not really, especially not original works
>>
>>101625317
I think he meant give the 'appearance' of empowering women.
>>
>>101625262
Madoka is just as much a mainstream "/v/" anime as either of those now. Only difference is that Bebop and Evangelion are genuinely good.
>>
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>Anime needs more western appeal

I thought wordy lewd teen vampire romance was a big thing in the west.
>>
>>101625356
We are open-minded to all kinds of fetishes. The West would see that no loli antics are allowed.
>>
>>101625412
But they talk, and talk, and talk, and anime is for kids.
>>
>>101625412
It's a big thing for WESTERN OTAKU. That's a lot different than "in the west".
>>
>>101625092
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:Shinji_and_Asuka%27s_Relationship
>>
>>101625412

Monogatari can barely be considered anime
>>
>>101625528
I think he meant twilight, dog. It was a joke.
>>
>>101625542
>One more final
>coming soon
he, It's never getting done is it?
>>
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>>101625553
>This faggot
>>
>>101625553
More of an anime than kill la kill at least.
>>
>my favorite anime is more anime than yours

Can we stop with his kindergarten bullshit for a second?
>>
>>101625713
>>101625553
Kill yourselves.
>>
>>101625679
>adaptation
>almost no animation
>just two talking heads and some CGI

It's closer to a VN then anime
>>
>>101625369
Bebop
Escaflowne
Patlabor
Every 90s Ghibli movie
...etc.
>>
>>101624605
>I don't think she would be popular in the West either.
So why is it so popular then?
>>
>>101625786
Epic meme, /b/ro.
>>
>>101625657

Obviously not, that page has been around since 2007. I just posted it because it manages to articulate my opinion on the subject well enough.
>>
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>>101625786
>almost no animation
>>
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>>101625806
>Every 90s Ghibli movie
>>
>>101625738
Or what? Are you going to tell on us to Ms. Poole?
>>
>>101625528
He meant shit like Twilight, Teen Wolf, Vampire Diaries and True Blood.
>>
>>101622492
I second this
>>
>>101625806
>escaflowne

Did you stop watching at episode 12 or something?
>>
>>101625856
My dad can beat up your dad.
>>
>>101625528
>Twilight
>True Blood
>Vampire Acadamy
>The Vampire Diaries
>The Vampire Chronicles
>Let Me In

Again the west is fucking obsessed with this kind of thing.
>>
>>101625854
In terms of more coherent plots and less schizophrenic writing, yes.
>>
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>>101625786
>and some CGI
>>
>>101625981

Simpler =/= Better

Also Miyazaki gets preachy as fuck
>>
>>101622304

Sit this faggot down and make him watch LotGH. These guys are just toonami shills.
>>
>>101626053
>These guys are just toonami shills.

Are they ever not? These are usually the same people who say shit like the 90's had no moe.
>>
Eva sucks because highschool. Or was it elementary school? Whatever. It's still childish, it's school.

Make the giant robots sci fi fighter jets or tentacle fighter jets, drop the teen setting, add some progressive political nuances and strong female leads and it'll sell sell sell in the west. Applies not only for eva but all animu in general.
>>
>>101626052
I don't agree with everything Miyazaki but as a director, he's definitely better than Anno.

>>101626053
This.
>>
>>101625973
Moonlight was good, but I only watched a bit of the pilot episode so I wouldn't know.
>>
>>101626139
But then it's not even the same show. The school setting in EVA doesnt play that large of a role outside of it being a camp for NERV to pluck Eva pilots and Toji being a dick.
>>
>>101625786
>closer to a VN then anime
McFucking kill yourself faggot.
>>
>>101626157
Well yeah Anno hasn't done any big shit other then Eva since the 90s except for VA work.
>>
>>101625124
>Tutu
It's like Sayaka's B plot with more forced drama and the main villain has no motivation other than just being evil, oh and dancing.
Would recommend.

>>101625157
>Utena
It's like Madoka minus the plot and it's 12 episodes of content are stretched across 39 episodes with heavy use of recap and stock animation.
Also instead of faustian symbolism, it has pretentious meaningless symbolism.
( I know because Ikuhara told me all interpretations are canon, and I chose "meaningless symbolism that's used to cover up lazy writing by forcing the audience to come up with their own explanations".)
Would avoid

Either way Madoka Magica is clearly the better of the three.
>>
>>101623166
It's sure as hell not. Their wishes come true exactly according to their desires, no quibbling wording bullshit. And that's what makes it more interesting than the system just being a total dick no matter what. The girls just made bad wishes, that was their crime. Not the act of making the wish itself.

Mami's wish is probably the only one that didn't backfire horribly, in terms of the wish harming anyone around her.
>>
>>101623505
>which goes against the core idea behind a Faustian bargain
In Goethe's Faust the implication is that Heinrich summoned Mephistopheles by accident.
>>
>>101623920
How are the shows in the US pandering? I don't see any harem MCs for me to self-insert into.
>>
>>101626617
Utena is way better than Madoka in pretty much every way, and in particular it does its drama far better than Madoka which has people crying about Sayaka taking up too much time and most people not giving much of a shit about Homu until her backstory episode.
>>
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>>101623505
In the Goethe play Mephistopheles approaches Faust. The literal first thing he does is approach God and gloat about what he was going to do in the Prolog in Himmel, so get rekt.
>>
Passing normal, I usually just come here for monstergirls and shitposting, but I'll comment anyway. The issue for me isn't that I can't take anime seriously, but rather that I take it too seriously. Many times, I cannot get past the Japanese obsession with melancholia (there's a Japanese word for it, but I can't remember it). I also occasionally have a hard time with the way shows end, or transition from season to season (thanks for helping me pretend that darker than black season 2 doesn't exist, /a/). I think both those hang ups would apply to a lot of western viewers.

I understand that you can power through these things, and that's what y'all, as fans, do, but I just don't have it in me. I don't want to get emotionally invested in show after show only to get shat on by some ludicrous plot twist or ending that creates more tension and problems than existed at the beginning of the story. I also think it's pretty hard to find good stuff to watch that isn't on your computer. I want to have the tv on while playing vidya or lie on the couch with my 3DS, and it's really difficult to sift through the shit on netflix, for example (although I am glad I stuck with black butler long enough for the trap episode). I can just lurk this board and find plenty of shows to watch, but I can't enjoy them in the way I'd like to.
>>
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>>101627266
>Passing normal
>>
>>101627266
Sounds like you've only ever seen shounenshit. And watching shows while doing something else demanding, please kill yourself.
>>
>>101627266
>thanks for helping me pretend that darker than black season 2 doesn't exist, /a/
What are you talking about? Darker Than Black really didn't get a second season. Are you feeling okay, anon?
>>
Help /a/
Someone in /int/ doesn't understand the ending of evangelion
>>>/int/20201889
>>
>>101627367
Fuck off. Just tell them it was DEEP symbolism about how Shinji wants to fuck his mom.
>>
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>>101627075
I'm sure that's how you choose interpret it, but I like my stories to have stories in them.

Japan agrees, stop bothering them about it.
>>
>>101627367

No one does.
>>
>>101622304
>It was a huge success
Not really.
>>
>>101627266
You probably mean mono no aware, as for everything else you said fuck you.
>>
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Madoka is ignored because it has the superficial appearance of a typical sailor moon show to western audiences.

It is hard for many people to take something seriously when it garbs itself with the vestments of what is considered childish.

Imagine Teletubbies with a mature and complex plot. Would you be able to take it seriously?
>>
>>101627750
I already take them too seriously, those things are an abomination that should not be.
>>
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>>101627750
>Would you be able to take it seriously?
Madoka is serious shit nigga.
>>
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>>101622304
>thanks in part to its use of mecha (giant mobile robots piloted by humans; think Pacific Rim’s Jaegers)

Reading that just gave me acute autism.
>>
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>>101627266
>I don't want to get emotionally invested in show after show only to get shat on by some ludicrous plot twist or ending that creates more tension and problems than existed at the beginning of the story.
You brought that upon yourself. If you really want a proper story, read the source material; you should already know that anime is nothing more than a glorified commercial.
>>
>>101622304

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10083399/1/The-End-of-Immortal
>>
>>101627750
I HATE IT
>>
>>101627954
HE HATES IT
>>
>>101627750

You clearly didn't understand how deep Teletubbies was. The sun baby represents God's seemingly childish nature, taking pleasure in watching the suffering of the world below Him without ever interfering. The Teletubbies try to please him with movies clips and short shows ( prayers ) and while they amuse him, He does nothing for them. The TV bellies show how humanity has become nothing more than a soulless machine.
>>
>>101627950
>Hello, my name is, Ebony D*arkness Dementia Raven Way. I'm not like your other average girl. OR AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT I'D FUCKING SAY IF I WERE, BUT I'M NOT! HAHA! Bastards!
>>
>>101622792
So? Most great cinema is an adaptation of a novel.
>>
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>>101627954
>>101627991
>>
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>>101628021
9/10 heartily chuckled
>>
>>101627750
Those Teletubbies have always crept me out. They're so weird looking.
>>
>>101628040
>not know who My Immortal
Is this seriously your first time reading it?
>>
>>101628021
What about Noo-Noo man, tell them about Noo-Noo.
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>>101628021
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>>101628021
>>101628203
I believe it.
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>>101627750
>Would you be able to take it seriously?
No, but I'd love to watch that.
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>>101625542
>In the end, she is utterly defeated. She realizes that she loves a social misfit who can't or won't return her feelings as she so desperately wants. Moreover, she was rescued from Arael by her arch rival, Rei. When Armisael attacks in ep. 23, Eva-02 won't move for her at all. In Ep. 24, in an apparent suicide attempt, she is found in an abandoned dirty bathtub in a pool of red liquid.

that makes me feel so sad for her.
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>>101622682
>crying a lot

I gave up after 6 episodes. Way too much crying and doing nothing. Fuck that.
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>>101629279
Don't worry, she gets better, and then gets worse
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>>101629507
I watched the series once, and EoE once, but it depressed me too much and I don't plan on watching it again soon. That was a few years ago.

Point is, I read articles like that and I can more clearly see dynamics that I couldn't before. Pretty interesting.

In EoE doesn't everything get better for both of them at the very end?
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>>101629691
Better is a too unambiguous word for what the ending gives us. But you can see it like that.
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>>101629279
This is why Asuka is best girl Anonymous.
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>>101629691
Except for the part where everyone else is Tang, yes. Sort of. They're still fundamentally broken people, but they're at least on the path to getting better.
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>>101629691
Up to interpretation, but in the EoE movie poster they're showing watching the Rei head together, so Shinji probably broke his strangling habit at least.
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>>101629912
I don't even think they're on a path to getting better, just under the realization that they can. Which is different because one does not imply certainty of success.
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>>101622682

After all this time I still can't tell if Madoka is genuinely good or if it's just a meme to say it's good.
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>>101630019
They can always stray from the path, but at least they've managed to find it. That's as much as one can realistically hope for.
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>>101630050
So you can't make up your mind yourself? Do you depend on others' opinion that much? My take is that it's mostly a meme, but the show is legitimately good, or at least decent, just not the greatest thing ever.
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>>101623920
>except for HBO

lol
Plenty of HBO shows are loaded with light porn scenes for a reason.
>>
>>101630184

I could make up my mind but that would require me downloading it.

I was more referring to what the majority thinks. It's always interesting to observe trends here.
>>
Shin Chan is totally left out in that article. The fucking author...
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>>101630116
That's what I meant, but just like addicts or people who deal with stuff IRL there can be lapses & failures even from people who seemed to realize they have to change their ways. And I think that's the ultimate theme of eva. Life has no promises of happy endings, but as long as you keep at it there's the hope. Saying that the ending is them finally getting over their issues implies a kind of certainty and finality that I don't think it's intended.
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>>101630296
It's a pretty big show, least you can do is check it out.
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>>101625092
I'm gonna go ahead and say that this counts as tension from Shinji's side.
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>>101630460
>That's what I meant
I know, I was just rephrasing it so that it jived with my original statement. I think we've been agreeing this whole time.
>>
>>101630296
http://sfdebris.com/videos/animation/madoka.php
Here's a pretty comprehensive review Even if he's watching the shitty English dub.
>>
>>101624120
And Shinji being that way is the whole point of the show, unfortunately for anyone who hates him.
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>>101625542
>evageeks
Not even going to bother.
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>>101631642
I'm feeling a little more masochistic than usual, so please tell me why. The article I linked is clear and concise.
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>>101624367
Shinji has 3 love interests, that extends to 4 if we're exclusively talking about NGE.

>Misato
>Rei
>Asuka
>Kaworu

Also,
not Kaworu as end-game love interest for both accounts.
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>>101631918
>>Misato
>implying Shinji would go for used goods
Besides, everyone knows the fourth love interest is Mana.
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>>101622488
Dying School girls. The shock value of it's already been lost so there's no point in watching. Madoka thrived off that feeling of looking happy go lucky and then using that uneasy feeling you got when one of the main characters dies to segway into proper plot. The problem is you browse /a/, so I'm 100% sure you've been spoiled to hell and it just really isn't worth your time. Not to mention everyone hypes it up as the greatest animu ever so it really isnt.

Depending on how you watch it and your preconceived notions of it, It will be good or bad.
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I might have watched madoka but /a/ spoiled everything in it for me years ago. I didn't even go into the threads. It's a shame it looked sort of interesting.
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>>101634270
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/archive/newsrel/soc/2011_08spoilers.asp
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>>101634337
That's the stupidest shit ever.
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>>101634337
That's fucking retarded.

If I'm watching the sixth sense, and I'm not supposed to know he's dead until the end of the movie, and I DO know. It ruins the movie.

The reason they enjoy it more is because they get to look for the hints. They get to connect more to the story because they know the twist. This is the same as READING IT AGAIN. Which plenty of people do, do. It's only natural to enjoy re-reading something.
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>>101633978
When I watched Madoka as it aired I was certain it was my favorite anime ever. All the anons who got spoiled beforehand are ruining everything.
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>>101635014
>All the anons who got spoiled beforehand are ruining everything.

How is getting a show spoiled ruining everything? If anything it's the show's fanbase fault for being so fucking retarded and spamming spoilers everywhere.
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>>101622488
It's a good, sad/dark/grim story, that gets taken too seriously because it takes place in a magical girls subverted setting.
Just like Happy Tree Friends appear more violent than actual violent shows, Madoka appears to be darker.
Also, people believe that "subverting" the genre is a quality in itself, while actually it's not objectively.
An oasis in the desert is rare and precious for the person that finds it, but its water is no better than any other water. It appears as if it's special because it's rare.
The same goes for shows that subvert a genre.
The average viewer thinks "oh wow this is new and I didin't expect it" but technically that's not part of the product, it's a meta-evaluation based on context and personal experience. Just like the oasis.
So, does it have any real merits (beyond being omg so unconventional) ?

My impression was that the plot was pretty good, especially from episode 10 to the end.
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>>101634642
Yes, exactly, people enjoy reading things again. That is why spoilers do not ruin stories, because stories are still enjoyable when you know what happens. I'm not sure I get what your point is.
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>>101635818
No, not all stories have the same re-watch value. Stories heavily based on surprise lose something when you know what happens in advance.
That's the reason an old joke might not make you laugh again, especially if heavily based on surprise.
Personally, I rarely read or watch a detective story twice because the thrill is spoiled if you know the end - in this particular genre.
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>>101625542
>evageeks
Kil yourself
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>>101633126
Mana is the girl he needs, but not the one he deserves right now.
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>>101623293

The entropy was dumb, but by that point in the show QB's goals are actually pretty insignificant compared to Homura's goals.
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>>101622304
>Evangelion
>Subverting anything
Evafags and westernfags sure are clueless about mecha.

Eva didn't subvert shit. Everything that was done in Eva was done earlier anime.
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>>101635750
That's a clever analogy. I'm gonna use it.
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>>101633978
I browsed /a/ during that time and I went into it blind. I tend to not notice threads about anime I'm not watching or don't really like. So an "old" spoiler won't really affect me because there's a good chance that I won't even remember reading about it.

I only watched it because Kajiura did the OST.

I do know that the magic of Madoka is watching it once blind, and watching it again to take a look at the huge fucking hints all over the place.

>>101635750
But Madoka isn't even that dark in retrospect, its main theme is about hope. It starts with the idea of hope and ends on the same idea, though its bittersweet the idea of hope still remains.

Rebellion in all honesty is darker, but its a different type of dark.
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>>101636010
If the body of a story becomes uninteresting when you learn the conclusion, perhaps it was not a a good story to begin with. You shouldn't have to rely so heavily on surprise to make your story engaging or worthwhile.
Though I might be biased. I'm generally able to predict the ending of a story within the first act, or otherwise near the beginning. I'm very rarely surprised by fiction in the first place, so spoilers don't get to me too much.
S-sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging.
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>>101636837
Yes of course. That's what I call a disposable story.
It's good for single use.
Like a condom.
While you're using it's a great moment but if you look at it after the fact you realize it's all sticky and full of sperm.
i.e. Death Note
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>>101637624
You didn't have to make it so lewd.
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>>101637701
Some people like to go the extra mile.
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>>101636545
Evangelion did everything better and glorified it though.



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