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Oh lawd, hard-hitting journalism by Zac "Answerman" Bertschy.
>>
OH SHI

Did he actually go outside this time?
>>
>journalism
>Anime website.

No, it sure isn't!
>>
>>10161956
"sat down" = online chat
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>>10161956
No, he "sat down".
>>
"A long time ago it (fansubbing) was about getting anime out there – things you couldn't get, or things you could see before they came out here. A little while ago things got blurred... but yeah, it's become a community. Many of us liken it to an MMORPG, where it's really no different from people playing Warcraft all day. There are people playing under nicknames, adopting a character – we even gain "experience", getting to "higher levels"."

...christ what a faggot
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>>10161948
How has this man not won a Pulitizer yet?
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>>10161977
That's fucking DEEP, man.
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>>10161948
93.6% chance that this "tofusensei" is really Answerman himself.
>>
You knew what this would do. God damn you.
>>
>we even gain "experience", getting to "higher levels"
I am the highest level here.
>>
I was raging for an entire week about ANN being the faggots they are. Now I've calmed down and realized the only reason to spend money is on figs and doujinshi.
>>
>>10162012
BUT DO YOU HAVE A MOUNT YET CIRNO HAHAHA I DIDN'T THINK SO
>>
>>10162012
Faker b& plox!
>>
>>10162020
>and doujinshi
BZZT! WRONG!
>>
>>10161977
>Many of us liken it [Downloading fansubs] to an MMORPG, where it's really no different from people playing Warcraft all day. There are people playing under nicknames, adopting a character – we even gain "experience", getting to "higher levels"."
Seriously though, who the fuck would say this? This reeks of 100% bullshit.
>>
Answerman must have maxed out stats and HP.

What a fucking beast.
>>
>>10162035

Have you ever bought one? Like physically been there looking at them?
>>
URGE TO KILL RISING
>>
>>10162058

/r/ing Stats for Answerman.
>>
Fansubbing has become just like the warez scene except less edgy and less competent. ITT denial.
>>
He's a community college dropout, what do you fucks expect?

He can parody Bill O'Reilly all he wants and the fagsuckers from Gaia would love to lick the driblle from his cock because they have no minds of their own. They're shitty underaged b&.

We're Gods compared to him, and Mount Olympus should be looking down at this Greek shit and laughing, not raging hard.
>>
This reminds me of how times when things like TV news interviews "hackers" and they sound like total dicks that in now way represent the scene.

I really like the "hey, we're releasing some fansubs IRC only now - it's really fun and a blast it's all for community spirit and people should come check it out :))"

Is there anything more fucking aggravating than IRC only bullshit? He probably didn't mention it was a show that was already licensed and fully released on dvd in the US anyway, Answerfag probably would have choked if he knew.
>>
Can't believe no one has saged yet. DONT FORGET TO SAGE PEOPLE.
>>
>>10162078

TIME TO PARTY TIME
>>
nobody cares about answerfag
>>
PARTY TIME!
>>
"Tofusensei" is apparently a translator for Live-eviL. Of course, his signature on Animesuki is...

>The only MMORPG I play is fansubbing.
>>
>>10162078
We need people to stand over us and feed us grapes.
>>
>>10162105

I take personal offense to this remark. If you slimy otaku weren't so cowardly, you'd had usernames to identify yourselves so I can whittle down your arguments to something smaller than a Japanese yen.
>>
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>>10162183
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>>10162183
Uh.
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>>10162183

We have a special guest. Welcome!
>>
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>>10162183

to HELL!
>>
I just reached a new level, fuck yeah
>>
>>10162086
You mean KOR? License has expired and it's likely not in print anymore, if it ever got a DVD release. Nobody's really losing money on that one.
>>
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Anonymous Leveled Up

Anonymous Is Evolving
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>>10162227
I THOUGHT IT WASS FUCKING HEAVEN```
>>
>>10162227
>>10162262


anon YOU LIED!!!!1111
>>
"
Well, hang on there, I'm going to cut you off for a second, I apologize. There is no comparison here to the music industry because musicians can still make money with live performances if their product is being passed around gratis. Anime companies can't. It's not really the same problem."

IT'S CALLED TELEVISION
ANIME SHOWN ON AMERICA TELEVISION = MUSICIANS PLAYING LIVE PERFORMANCES

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE
>>
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>>10162261
That is an awesome fucking picture I must say.
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>>10162276
Anonymous Learned Rage
>>
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>>10162282
heh, perfect with the mask
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>>10162333

I think it's a shield, and he just has a black hole for a face.
>>
>>10162276
Answerman is an extremely poor sophist. I usually would feel sorry for people who fall for this kind of shit, but anyone who falls for Answerman's garbage is so stupid, that my being is incapable of even generating pity.
>>
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>>10162356
It could be some metaphor for our anonymity going from our identity to our shield or some shit.
>>
Anonymous-
He managed to divide by 0 in order to obtain ultimate power.
>>
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>>10162183
>>
>>10162276
And now many series are shown on TV, not just American stations? It's a hell of a lot less than what gets fansubbed in the run of a season.
>>
>>10162276

TV broadcasting anime is, unfortunately, virtually non-existent.

This is actually a large part of the current anime problem - there's so much anime out there, how is even a person who buys anime meant to know what is good and what isn't? That's probably murdering sales just by itself.

I buy an absolute ton of anime, but I never once will I buy something I haven't already watched entirely.
>>
>>10162474
Not a single person in the entire anime industry has taken a real class in business or marketing.
>>
>>10162474

Indeed, having too much a product is a bad thing. You can't buy or watch it all.
>>
>>10162474
If every anime fan out there bought one or two box sets a year of whatever show they watched in the last 12 months, the R1 industry would likely be FAR better off than what it is right now.

150 bucks, if that, is probably what you pay for a few months of broadband service.
>>
>>10162525

But on the contrary, broadband service brings us a lot more than a boxset of anime.
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>>10162183
fake
>>
What the fuck? Who wants to read 4 pages of some douchebag pretending to be a newscaster and interviewing some guy who works in a sub group?

What a bunch of circle-jerking.
>>
>>10162448
Well a lot of crap that isn't worth of fansubbing gets fansubbed, and a lot of crap that isn't worthy of TV gets aired.
The point is that there is a perfectly feasible way to make money off anime completely independent of DVD or online sales, without requiring any sort of real commitment from the casual fan.
And truth is, any fan of a fansub is likely to watch the same series if it's on TV, even if they're a sub-whore. See: Dub-Note threads. So in a way, the industry IS making money off of fansub fans even if they never buy a DVD.

I still believe the answer to this issue is blindingly obvious. As the guy in the article says, if a couple of nerdy no-life fans can get a show subtitled and distributed to 10,000 fans in a day, there's no fucking reason the anime industry can't do the same. They're just too afraid to do it.

Viz took a good step when they put Dub Note on their website, amongst other animes, and people did watch it! And even better, Adult Swim put the same videos on their website too! And they're making money!
Gee, the system works! Why not do it?
>>
>>10162537
Point I was making is that people pay for broadband service without really thinking about it. Most people consider it an essential service and brings them god knows how many hours of entertainment a year, but they never apply that to anime. Ever.
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>>10162501
thats why they hire from a an AD firm to gain PROMOTIONS

well if they have the money..
>>
>>10162560
I read it. I'm literate, unlike you /b/tards.
Can't say it was much more than I expected.
>>
>>10162557
You're one sharp super-sleuth.
>>
Anonymous-
His power is maximum.
>>
>They're just too afraid to do it.

The American companies probably would make changes, drastic ones to make a profit. Look at what Mediablasters and TRSI are doing with their sub only releases. It's brilliant.

Now compare that to the Japanese standard of Bandai Visual's grossly overpriced discs, who are just out to milk the minority and screw over the rest. Regular old Bandai did an absolute shit job on their Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam releases, just to keep their Japanese profits protected. It's these bastards that are stagnating things.
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Zac = Anime Expert
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>>10162637

I went to the Media Blasters booth at MegaCon. Those guys are fucking awesome. They hate dubs.
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No fansubs = next to zero industry.
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>>10162656

Take away fansubs, we'll all move the fuck on, and then the only things that get licensed will be the worse shit. ADV seems to license that crap anyway.
>>
>>10162637 Regular old Bandai did an absolute shit job on their Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam releases, just to keep their Japanese profits protected.

Neither of those are actually their fault, the blame lies with the Japanese - they're ridiculously heavy handed with controlling Gundam.

The Japanese forced Mobile Suit Gundam to be released with no Japanese audio and an episode missing, and were heavily involved with the production of the Zeta set.
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>>10162204
ur upside upside triple upside down man.
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>>10162655
I wouldn't have mind about a dubbed Ramen, but at least they cut the bullshit and not make dubs mandatory.
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>>10162637
Very true. Thing is, I don't give a flying shit about the American anime industry. I have no reason to as long as there are fansubs.
And the truth is, RARELY do American sales of any anime series, no matter how popular, have any effect at all on the Japanese anime industry. SO WHY SHOULD I CARE?
The anime industry in Japan is failing because Japan fails itself. I have no sympathy towards international distributers of anime looking to make a profit on something they didn't even create. The industry has NOTHING to do with you.
I don't care if anime conventions die. I don't care if not another anime DVD is ever sold in America or any country besides Japan. Seriously, it has NO EFFECT on Japan and never has.

When will these retarded rabble-rousers get that through their heads that fansubbing is just leveling the field? It's called competition. Deal with it.
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>>10162525
>If every anime fan out there bought one or two box sets a year of whatever show they watched in the last 12 months, the R1 industry would likely be FAR better off than what it is right now.
Shows I deem "Worth buying" in 07 that have beeen licensed:

... 1. I count 1, and I'm buying it. This is not a problem with piracy, fansubbing, or other related dipshittery; it goes much further than that.

There aren't enough good shows licensed, nobody has ever taken a proper fucking business class, and these faggots don't understand that only retards buy something without ever having watched it before. License anime, and put it on TV. Fuck.
>>
>>10162696
>The Japanese forced Mobile Suit Gundam to be released with no Japanese audio
what, why?
>>
Outlaw fansubbing and only outlaws will fansub...?
>>
>>10162717 Seriously, it has NO EFFECT on Japan and never has.

Yeah, guys like the head of Gonzo saying it's hurting them bad, and people like Dai Soto talking about how they actively create shows for the broader picture than just Japan now are just totally making things up.
>>
>>10162747

No clue why; Bandai's just like that. Just like they took out Zeta - Transcending Times (albeit they couldn't get the license, but I was fucking pissed; I loved the song)
>>
>>10162696
I implied it was the Japanese that fucked with the releases, guess I wasn't clear enough.

>>10162683
While there's a lot of shit out series getting licensed, there are a few rather good and popular series that get picked up. But they don't see either... Look at Haruhi, a wildly popular series on both sides of the Pacific. Comes over here, and barely sells for a damn.

Damned if it's shit, damned if it's popular.
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>>10162747

MSG wasn't available on dvd in Japan at the time, they were terrified that it would be massively reverse imported (you can bet your ass it would have been)
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>>10162724

Yeah, exactly. If those companies want to bitch more about poor sales, they have no right unless more of there shit was on TV. Cable TV is the ultimate exposure.
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>>10162772

GONZO hasn't really produced much worthy of DVD purchase, of course it's hurting them bad.
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>>10161948
>>10161956
>>10161962
>>10161969
>>10161971

Anon is just too busy to read. Come bak.
>>10161977
>>10161986
>>10161996
>>10162000
>>10162010
>>10162012
>>10162020
>>10162027
>>
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>>10162589
quick econ lesson:
Their problem isn't advertising, fansubs have already built up a fairly large consumer base. Thing is...when was the last time you bought the DVD box for ANY show? The only people who buy those are die-hard fans. People aren't buying $20 DVD dubs for the same reason they don't buy a $500 luxary plane ticket. The demand is for cheap and fast subs, either supply it or don't STOP PLAYING THE FUCKING ETHICS CARD.
>>
>>10162724 Shows I deem "Worth buying" in 07 that have beeen licensed: ... 1.

1, out of 84 shows licensed?

http://animeondvd.com/licenselist/2007updates.php
>>
>>10162772
No R1 industry = no licensing fees/royalties going back to the Japanese producers.

How many times does this have to be brought up everytime this dead horse argument gets posts?
>>
>>10162825 People aren't buying $20 DVD dubs

>>DVD dubs

Jesus Christ you are fucking retarded.

DVDS HAVE JAPANESE AUDIO ON THEM
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>>10162781

Ha, same here. Rather annoyed I got some crummy orchestra playing in the OP.
>>
>>10162852
how much do you think they're charging you for the voice acting it always comes with?
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>>10162772
If Japan cared about overseas sales they wouldn't be making kids shows with naked women's boobs.
In fact, I don't want Japan to care about American sales. Imagine how censored it would become! I don't want anime Americanized. I don't want anime to be popular in America.
Japan had a strong anime industry decades before other countries came along. Fansubbers distributing shows to other countries isn't the problem.

The problem may be that Japanese people can watch anime online for free because of raw providers, but that's a completely separate issue.
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>>10162827
I meant shows that actually aired in 07. And yes. 1.
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>>10162868
Please don't use that argument, you have no idea how much money is involved here. I can assure you, they're not overpricing because of the dub.

>>10162870
>If Japan cared about overseas sales they wouldn't be making kids shows with naked women's boobs.
Japan cares about overseas licensing. Licensing brings in millions of dollars to Japanese companies. You severely underestimate just how much money is flying around. Don't talk like that if you don't know actual numbers.
>>
>>10162825

I've bought a $20 Spirit airline ticket. For a 2.5 hour flight, you don't notice a single fucking difference versus a $90 ticket.

Hm..slightly good comparison, though I'm sure it's wrong somewhere.
>>
>>10162870 If Japan cared about overseas sales they wouldn't be making kids shows with naked women's boobs. In fact, I don't want Japan to care about American sales. Imagine how censored it would become! I don't want anime Americanized. I don't want anime to be popular in America.

Hahahahaha.

I've got bad news for you buddy, anime has been making anime with America in mind for quite a bit of time now.
>>
>>10162906
I don't know numbers but I know what I see. If Japan wanted anime to be popular in America, they would make them more like American shows. It's obvious logic.
If they wanted a broader international license they would dumb down their shows to fit the taste of other countries. Well, they do dumb down their shows (see: Pokemon) but that's for their own audience.
Sure, international sales are valuable, but it should NOT be the cornerstone of the anime industry. And it wasn't even slightly important until recently. Nobody cared about selling anime to the world before, and they shouldn't care now either.
>>
>>10162868 how much do you think they're charging you for the voice acting it always comes with?

Nothing.
>>
>>10162957

You're woefully misinformed, I'm afraid.
>>
>>10162957
There's a few problems with making Americanized shows.
1. The Japanese won't buy it.
2. Most North Americans (see, not us) can't get past the medium that it's presented in.
>>
>>10162825 The demand is for cheap and fast subs,

Except when threads like this get to the point where people start screaming about I REFUSE TO BUY ANIME BECAUSE I FIND THEIR TRANSLATIONS TOTALLY INADEQUATE AND BOY DO I SURE HATE YELLOW SUBTITLES, TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
>>
>>10162957
>Sure, international sales are valuable, but it should NOT be the cornerstone of the anime industry
If this is your core belief, then you're on the right track, at least. No, the Anime industry would not topple without American money, but it still is important.

It pains me to see all the shitty business on the American end. Get your shit together, faggots. For fucks sake, you can't just expect to license shows and sell DVDs, put it on the god damn television.
>>
>>10162971
>Nothing.

Try 10 bucks a disc. That's the price difference between MB/TRSI and everyone else.
>>
>>10163000
And third, anime is just a fad in America. It's more than that to Japan, and if they were relying on America to import than they're in for a shock. The American economy is only getting worse and people aren't going to waste money on something exotic anymore.
>>
>>10163021

And MB is at the point where they seem to only be releasing boxsets.
>>
>>10163021
That's not dub cost. I told you in a previous post: The dubbing process adds no money to the price.
>>
>>10163021

MB/TRSI are small fry and their titles are basically from the Japanese bargain bin.

Also, $10 difference? So MB/TRSI releases are $5 or less per volume?
>>
>>10163006
>I REFUSE TO BUY ANIME BECAUSE I FIND THEIR TRANSLATIONS TOTALLY INADEQUATE

Anyone that believes this is excessively weeaboo, can't speak of word of Japanese and are retarded.
>>
>>10162276
BAD ANALOGY IS BAD. Fuckloads of bands can make money touring, but the amount of anime that can be shown on TV is severely limited by the tiny amount of stations willing to show it, who themselves are very selective. Also, TV airings of anime in both Japan and the US are mainly helpful to the studios as a promotion for the DVD releases where the REAL money is made. The TV airing isn't the major moneymaker like gigs are for bands.

>>10162717
Poor DVD sales in the US have an impact on the Japanese anime industry. Everything we've heard about the state of the industry in the past few months confirms this. Sorry if you don't like it, but them's the breaks.
>>
>>10163055
So you're telling me Naruto and Pokemon are getting bad ratings and aren't making a shitton of money because nobody watches TV? Really?

As for the second point, my point was more that it SHOULDN'T impact them. They shouldn't be relying on American sales. They had an independent industry before, and now it's falling apart because America no longer has the economy to support them.
That's their own damed fault, not the fansubbers.
>>
>>10163081
>Naruto and Pokemon are huge exceptions. For every one big anime on US tv there's five to ten doing bad.
>>
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>>10163006
yeah, whatever. My main point was that their entire business model is completely retarded. You can't just buy the license and expect it to sell. The way their ignoring the market and blaming pirates just...FUCK.
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>>10163093
Naruto and Pokemon ARE the only anime doing good on US television.
>>
>>10163093
>>10163104
AND THEY ARE PROOF
PROOF THAT IT CAN WORK
PROOF THAT AMERICANS DO WANT ANIME
AND LOOK WHERE IT'S GETTING US
YOU WANT MORE POKEMON AND NARUTO AND BLEACH AND ONE PIECE AND ALL THIS OTHER SHIT?
I THINK NOT
>>
>>10163081
Naruto and Pokemon are two shows. Add in what little else is shown in the US and compare that to what is shown on TV in Japan.

They do make money, but it is a comparative drop in the bucket.
>>
>>10163099
There IS a market for it. Even though it's not doing well, don't mistake that for a lack of consumers.
>>
>>10163081
>They shouldn't be relying on American sales
You're right, but that bubble burst, they were fucked, and AMERICA rode in on its white steed and saved the day. (Only to fuck it up again as usual.)

Welcome to economy. These things come in cycles, everything will stabilize in the end, but right now, people are bitching.

There is no point to my post, I'm just educating, I guess. Some sort of half-assed lesson. Either way, it's common sense that's not so common.
>>
>>10163081
Pokemon and Naruto have mad, mad marketing potential. So what if the DVDs sell like shit, they have video games, and t-shirts, and plushies, and condoms, and keychains to turn a profit on.

Every other anime out there? Fuck no.
>>
>>10163118
BAD SHOWS DO WELL! MORE AT 11!
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>>10163099
This man is an expert because his opinion is the same as mine. Listen to him. He is wise.
>>
>>10163081
Naruto and Pokemon's great ratings promote all the merchandise, which is what makes the money.
>>
>>10163118
Man, it's this elitist self-centered "I want my hobby all to myself" mind set that makes you sound like a gigantic faggot.
>>
American dubs and subs fail because "ponytail moe" There is no worse case in my mind of squandered potential. Haruhi's such a universal story, it could be the same at a school in America or Britain or France, but Bandai has to out of their way to alienate a potential market segment just to appease to the giant fucking weeaboos. Then they sell the DVDs for ludicris amounts and complain about subbers.
Now they're bringing over Lucky Star. What the fuck are they hoping to do with Lucky Star? The people that would buy the DVDs already did, and they're happy with their fansubs. Motherfucking Bandai, Haruhi coulda gone on Toonami.
>>
>>10163133
I just can't stand all this whinning about animes not being able to do well in America. Look at these series. They are doing well. Because they are shit.
Is this what you REALLY want? More shit?
So frankly, I don't care if America doesn't buy anime. I don't want American anime.
>>
>>10163153
It's not elitism. It's just that I expect a certain amount of quality from anime because it used to come from an independent industry from America, and the American cartoon industry is really only capable of producing shit (see: Disney) because it's what's popular.
I don't mind *some* popularity. I don't mind 10,000 piraters downloading anime. I mind when shit shows make money and everyone complains that the industry is dying because nobody wants...

ahh dammit i'm sick of raging

you get the idea or you don't
>>
>>10163159
>Motherfucking Bandai, Haruhi coulda gone on Toonami.

NNGH. They'd have LOVED it to but Toonami has to AGREE TO BUY IT FROM THEM. Jesus fucking Christ. The anime studios can't force TV stations to show their anime.
>>
>>10163124
what? no, of course there's a market. But again the market is for cheap, fast subs. What would you do if they started charging $5 for every episode of american idol or whatever crap you watch. you're either going to pirate it or go outside.

>>10163038
and cirno, the costs of the VAs, studio, etc. aren't coming out of their own pockets.
>>
>>10163131
>condoms

wait. what?! i don't want a codom with a picture of Chansey on it.. thats just bad luck.
>>
>>10163159 American dubs and subs fail because "ponytail moe"

...and the sad thing is, for every one of someone like you who complains about ponytail moe and literal junk done to cater to fanboys, there's a mouth breater right behind you just waiting to bitch and moan because a dvd used "bro" instead of "aniki" and disgusting Westernization like that gives you aids.
>>
>>10163165
Man remember when shitty DBZ did well? Then it was followed with Outlaw Star, Tenchi, Gundam, Trigun which was all shit right?

Right?
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>>10163191
Diglet condoms.
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>>10163199
actually I only like one of those series listed
but frankly, outside of DBZ, none of those series did remarkably well
nothing in comparison to the crap like pokemon and such
and it doesn't matter because the anime industry should be independant of america
otherwise we'd just call them cartoons
>>
Not this shit again?

If Japan can't make enough off of Anime in Japan to pay for it they should stop making it. Anything they make outside of putting it on TV in Japan is gravy. If putting it on TV in Japan doesn't pay for it they should stop making it and losing money.

So far this month I have pre-ordered one DVD at 20 bucks and one season at 49.00 these are subs only releases. Last month I pre-ordered one series and the month before I bought a thinpack. I don't buy stuff I haven't seen in it's entire length. In December I bought Mai HiME on sale. Anyone who thinks I'll pay more than 130 dollars for a series is crazy.

We don't need these threads one a week.
>>
I'll download fansubs and doesn't afraid of anything. Again, I could care less of the state of anime, I doubt there will be any more AMAZING shows, but I still enjoy crappy moe or slice of life shit.
>>
>>10163221
*remarkably well in america

and you think those shows made most of their money because of America? NO. They were popular in Japan FIRST.
THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD STILL BE
>>
>>10163165
The American anime industry has been partially funding the Japanese one for years, and Japan is still producing almost exclusively Japan-centric, Japanese-oriented shows. Plenty of these shows have been successful enough in the US to justify their being licensed. (For a random example off the top of my head, FUNi have said that Shuffle is selling rather well.)

Not to mention that the Naruto dub is very clearly Japanese, proving that (a) anime doesn't have to be "American" to sell well in America, and (b) America doesn't want Japan to make "American" anime, it wants Japanese anime dubbed/subbed into English.

All this OMG ANIME WILL BE AMERICAN sky is falling bullshit is ridiculous.
>>
>>10163191
Gundam condoms exist. I shit you not.
>>
>>10163159

Bandai would probably jerk off so furiously at getting Haruhi onto tv they'd put themselves into a coma.

Small problem - TV doesn't want it. Or most other anime for that matter.
>>
>>10163187
Money going into an industry let's it grow.

They produce more shows. A lot are shit, but some aren't.

You're deluding yourself if you think that anime is somehow of a higher quality now then when it was all the rage.
>>
>>10163189
>the costs of the VAs, studio, etc.
Microscopic compared to licensing costs, so it's irrelevant.

I said before, the problem with the industry is not piraters or fansubbing groups. It's shitty business from licensing companies. You can't just license a show and expect the DVDs to fly off the shelves. License less shit, improve your turnaround time, put it on fucking TV, do something, ANYTHING to promote sales.

I'm sick of this stock defense "Hurr, those fansubbers are killing anime!" Fuck off, assholes. I'm stealing anime because I want to. If I did not steal anime, I would not buy it at all. Be glad I'm taking a sample and will eventually purchase things I like, and be glad I'm not the majority. Get off your asses and start doing business. BUSINESS. THIS IS NOT A GAME.
>>
>>10163229
You sound like a pretty cool guy, Tofusensei
>>
>>10163188

I meant in the terms of localization. It could have been able to be shown on any American television network, but was instead made the sole property of retarded headband-monkeys so they can spend hundreds of dollars on DVDs so they can be "true fans" while us fake fans watch superior fansubs and go on with our lives.
>>
>>10163235
i couldn't disagree more, but i'm really sick of arguing about it
>>
Fansubbing has got me interested in anime and is a responsible party for the rise in anime-related sales.

If anyone thinks they can just say "well you like it, stop watching it now and BUY OUR SHIT" is naive.
>>
>>10163222
>If putting it on TV in Japan doesn't pay for it they should stop making it and losing money.

Putting it on TV in Japan doesn't pay for ANY anime. Anime production is paid for through merchandise sales, which for late night shows largely means the ridiculously overpriced R2 DVDs.

It's a nitpick but a point worth bringing up. Sure, Japanese fans get anime on TV for free, but if none of them bought it (and none of us bought it later on either)? No more anime for us.
>>
So you're saying that if anime as a whole would somehow be better if it only focused on Japan?

Do you realize how fucking stupid that sounds?
>>
>It's shitty business from licensing companies.

Anyone want to start drawing comparisons of the anime industry now to the video game market crash?
>>
>>10163260
The dub is fine for US TV and could be aired as-is.
>>
>>10163297
Haha. Luckily we are not holding up the entire industry. If Japan lost American money, anime would still be made.

Thank god we can't fuck it up THAT much.
>>
>>10163222

Uh, Japanese tv doesn't make anything for anime.

Anime on tv there are glorified commercials for one thing or another.

Mainstream anime shows sell merchandise (Naruto doesn't sell DICK when it comes to dvds in Japan) and otaku bait shows sell dvds.
>>
>>10163243
How could you be so hard on the industry, Cirno? Your realization that the pressure is on the distributors to get their money and not the consumers to give it to them despite not providing an adequate service is what makes piraters such scum! You're such a horrible person :(
>>
>>10163306

A dub of screeching monkeys would be fine for US television too, but the very fact they stuck with stupid shit like moe when THEY DIDN'T NEED TO irks me so much. They could have done so much with the license but instead they're marketing it to 0.01% of the possible audience and milking them for as much as they can get, no matter what the results
>>
>>10163335
Could it be that the industry sucks and is useing a buisness model that relies of scalping it's fans?
>>
>>10163364
*gasp* Never!
>>
>>10163283
how many japs do you think would buy those overpriced dvds if animu wasn't on tv?
>>
Studios should offer close to same day internet releases of their shows with some quick advertising. The cost would be negligable to produce and bring in some money that would otherwise be totaly lost.

Industry, we are not going to buy what is free to someone else. You may as well make what money you can while you can. No one wants ugly ass DVD subs. Does anything realy need to be said about dubs?

Find someone in the US that wants to sell crap to the anime fan market in the US. Have them pay some industry standard for their ad, include it on the weekly release.
>>
>>10163243

point taken. and for the whole japanese industry thing, they're not stupid enough to depend on us and you know what? They don't have to deal with copyright laws, the FCC, marketing or advertising, any of that shit. They get to sell the license at an inflated price. They get an extra wad of cash for every series they make with zero risk. You know whats going to happen if more anime companies over here go out of buisness here? more will pop up because there *is* a market for it and there *are* an entrepreneur willing to take that risk.
>>
>>10163312
If the Japanese Anime industry doesn't make money on TV then they are stupid and should go out of business. I get tired of this argument, what Anime is provided for free to the TV stations in Japan? The Anime industry operates at a loss? I don't by this as you can't have a business operating at a loss. It a simple fact.
>>
>>10163361
What the fuck are you talking about, exactly? It sounds like you're complaining that a dub didn't chop the subject matter to pieces and turn it into some contrivance with lesser fan appeal than something closer to the original would have had because it's too "moe" for you.

Maybe you're the one whose whining because his minority tastes aren't being catered to, eh? Or maybe you're just a troll, in which case 9/10
>>
>>10163361
Well, don't get me wrong, I agree that the obsessive literalness of the Haruhi DVDs is a little irritating. But I really don't think it's as exclusionary as you think. Honestly, who's going to air Haruhi on TV? Cartoon Network is basically the only possibility, and they've happily shown things in the past that were full of Japanese cultural references. I doubt a less weeaboo dub would really have helped or hindered Haruhi's chances of getting on TV.

Also, remember that Haruhi is only 13 episodes long. It would never have been a Naruto-style megahit.
>>
>>10163419
Sorry, 14 episodes
>>
PEDOPHILES HAET ZAC
>>
>>10163405
Nobody said the anime industry operates at a loss. They just don't make their money in the one specific way that you seem to INSIST they make their money, for some reason.
>>
>>10163430
-1/10
>>
>>10163430
I don't think this thread is about him anymore. He's a faggot, and we laugh at him because he's so stupid.

Now this thread is about economics, business majors, and insulting licensing companies because they're retarded.
>>
>>10163438
Sorry I don't buy they they don't profit on sale to TV airing.
>>
>>10163419
Haruhi did just fine in Japan with only 14 episodes, what with that whole "Haruhism" thing going on over there. Would it have killed Bandai to take out an ad in a magazine besides anime magazines? Maybe a videogame magazine or stuck some shit up on Gaia. Anything but trying to maintain the status quo of peddling obscure japanimation to us whities.

>>10163415
That's right, the wish that Bandai not marginalize its potential market makes me a troll, not the idiot that believes Haruhi could make it, as is, on US television. You get a 8/10 for making me respond to you.
>>
>>10163405 The Anime industry operates at a loss? I don't by this as you can't have a business operating at a loss. It a simple fact.

A small number of very successful titles subsidize a much greater number of non-successful titles, basically.
>>
I don't by them not profiting on Airing on TV if they don't they deserve to go down the tubes.
>>
>>10163481
Well, they don't. It came up in some interview. Too busy to find the link right now.
>>
>>10163312
There is a fuckton of money in tv advertising. you know how much it costs it costs to air a commercial? You much it costs to air a commercial during the superbowl?!

1 BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS

AND ITS WORTH IT
>>
>>10163501
No that's right, Most anime does not turn a profit from airing on TV. Gainax, for example, makes all their money on DVD's and merchandising.
>>
>>10163419
american tv isn't interested in shows with less than 9000 episodes
>>
>>10163493
Yeah, more advertising would probably have helped, but enough to offset the costs of it? At the end of the day, Haruhi wasn't going to become a national sensation without a TV airing, and no amount of inaccurate-dub-that-you-so-crave could have got it on TV any more than the existing dub. That's my conclusion based on the stuff CN have shown in the past, not just idle speculation.
>>
>>10163525
That's American TV, buddy. Japanese TV is much different. It's easy to turn a profit from American TV. Not so for Japanese television.

I don't know why, but that's how it is.
>>
>>10163525
The TV station makes money from advertising, not the anime studio. Even then, I doubt it's much money since most anime airs in the wee hours of the morning.

Also, a large proportion of ads shown during anime are for that anime's merchandise.
>>
>>10163493
Also, Haruhi is only popular in Japan with otaku! It's very popular by anime standards, but it's hardly mainstream.
>>
>>10163549

Oh god, you're one of those people that prefer they left "moe" in? I'll bet you wanted everyone to use honorifics. Enjoy wasting money on a retarded dub while I enjoy superior DVDs.
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>>10163552
less viewers obviously, but a company the size of an anime studio running at a loss is unheard of though. and a loss of sales over, at most, will just drop the price of the license. The current baby bust in japan might affect shows like naruto though. might be why their pushing it on TV over here. i dunno anymore its like 4am over here.
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>>10163578

I think he's referring to advertisement of merchandise, or even product placement, they'll still get paid for shit like that. Also, if the station makes more money off of advertisement, they'll pay more for the show to air on their station.
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>>10163702
You say that as if anime studios are huge companies.

Just because it's 4am doesn't mean you can bury your head in the sand and pretend the anime industry doesn't operate the way it actually does. THEY DO NOT MAKE MONEY FROM THE TV AIRINGS.

For otaku shows, low DVDs sales = anime doesn't make a profit. I guess you could look at each series as an investment.
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>>10163775
Oh god I just got it.
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>>10163755
>bury your head in the sand

I see what you did there.
>>
>>10163755
>THEY DO NOT MAKE MONEY FROM THE TV AIRINGS.
I can't tell if you're trying to troll me or not. I'm no expert on the anime industry but it's more complicated than just (DVD sales - prodution costs)
>>
>>10163868
Of course it's more complicated than that. But they still don't make their money from the TV airings.
>>
Ok people.

Conclusion:
Free > Buying shit months after it is actually released

Besides, it's free when it airs in Japan anyway, how are we going to let them have the upper hand?
>>
>>10163915
Uh, yeh, they do. Advertising etc.
>>
>>10163962

Read the goddamned thread, that was already addressed a bunch of posts up.
>>
Doesn't some anime companies have to buy air time to broadcast their shows? And they make money mainly from dvd and merchandise sales (and possibly from some licensing fees and royalties).
>>
>>10163946
Japanese people have to pay a TV license fee. Also, a lot of anime airs on satellite channels. Also, OVAs and movies.

So, yeah, the Japanese get -some- of their anime for free, by a loose definition of free. Kind of.
>>
>>10163868

It's not a troll, he's simply stating fact.

The anime companies (or more specifically, the committees producing it, for example the way Eureka 7 was made under the production group banner of "Production Eureka") are actually the ones who themselves pay the tv channels to air their shows.
>>
>>10164069 They want more DVD sales, they can stop censoring - even the most minor of censoring is out of the question - of English releases

facepalm
>>
>>10163979
no that's retarde...
>Doesn't some anime
you're a troll

>>10163946
there is the cost of whatever cable package they get but who doesn't have basic cable these days? >>10162825 has the rest of my argument.

>>10163915
again, don't know about the industry but I'm guessing only prime time shows get significant DVD sales. There are dozens of shows each season and I don't thing a very large number a people are willing to pay $200+ for the full series (depends on length of series).
>>
They want more DVD sales, they can stop censoring - even the most minor of censoring is out of the question - of English releases and screwing up the video quality compared to Japanese DVDs.

Also, more box sets and how about not releasing shit series (Shuffle!) and totally ignoring awesome ones (Seto no Hanayome).
>>
>>10164017

I agree it's pretty loose. But who doesn't have a subscription to satellite/cable tv?
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>>10164097
I don't. My internet is my TV.
>>
>>10164083 again, don't know about the industry but I'm guessing only prime time shows get significant DVD sales.

It's actually the reverse. High rating prime time shows sell insignificant amounts of dvds, other than some exceptions (like Gundam)
>>
>>10164083
Actually, the primetime shows aimed at more general family/child audiences tend to sell terribly on DVD (except crossover hits like Gundam). They make their money from other merchandise instead. It's the otaku shows that sell well on DVD, because the fans are that dedicated to spend the ridiculous amounts to support the shows they like.
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>>10164121
you pay for high-speed internet, might as well bundle that with basic cable. unless you leech your neighbors wireless.
>>
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>>10164097
I dont have satellite or cable TV, then again i dont really watch TV show anymore considering its CSI or CSI spinoffs or CSI wannabees not saying CSI is bad but ive had enough of CSI
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>>10164156
Costs extra to bundle and I wouldn't use it. It's only a little bit, but I'm a poor college student and most of my money is invested in stock/bonds/mutual funds/etc., upkeep on my 944 Turbo, compy upgrades, and lastly food.
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>>10164151
yeah, guess that makes sense, you have a website or whatnot your getting this info from?
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>>10164197
Gimme a minute
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>>10164190
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>>10164190
wtf is a poorfag driving a porsche?
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>>10164216
Scholarships paid for college so a bit of my college fund went to it. And it's the cheapest most reliable Porsche you can get for the money. I sold by Honda Accord to help finace it. Comes to only $1500 calculation that in.

I pinch my pennies like hell.
>>
>>10164197
http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/15635
>>
>>10164272
Sorry it's a bit out of date BTW, I couldn't find the 2007 thread. Note the anime that get the highest ratings on TV:

#1 Sazae-san, #2 Chibi Maruko-chan, #3 Crayon Shin-chan, #4/#5 Doraemon, #4/#5 Detective Conan

Nowhere to be found on the DVD chart.
>>
>>10162062
different poster, but yeah... souveniers of sorts from a trip to japan and various conventions I've been to. It was kinda wierd at first, but you just kinda learn to ignore the feeling that everyone is watching what you're rifling through.
>>
>>10164272
01. Mobile Suit Gundam SEED DESTINY (Volumes 1-10) 645,512 Copies Sold

well shit. anyways I'm going to shut and sleep, sick of arguing anime economics.
>>
>>10164387
Um, yeah, Gundam got mentioned twice already?
>>
Well they have something people what, we can all agree to that.

If they can't figure out how to make a profit in Japan selling ads then maybe they can figure it out in America or Europe.

Maybe they just need to ask Google how to make money off ads.
>>
It's worth mentioning that the whole "anime gets all that anime for free anyway" thing is mostly a myth.

A lot of it is broadcast only on things like pay-per-view or satellite, and most only air in regional areas rather than airing nationwide.
>>
>>10162827
>>1, out of 84 shows licensed?

I checked that list myself. The only show listed I'd consider buying was Mahou Shoujo Tai Arusu (Tweeny Witches).
>>
>>10164525
Cable is pay per view, sat is pay per view, what you watch is a service you paid for you are not paying to watch Anime only. It is for all and intents free to watch.
>>
>>10164602
Or at least so cheap per show that you could watch to be equal with free.
>>
>>10164602
>>10164667

I believe he's referring to this. It's pointing out the incorrectness of Japanese people being able to instantly and for free watch every single anime running.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_night_anime#Broadcast_area
>>
>>10164700
Most people have Cable or Sat even in Amerikkka and Japan is better wired than here.
>>
>>10164726

>>Moreover, in Japan, satellite broadcasting (8%) and CATV (38%) are not as wide spread as in the United States.
>>
>>10164726
In giant cities like Tokyo they're better wired, but out in the boondocks it's shit, but because of the population of Tokyo and other large cities it creates a disproportion in statistics. You have to check if they're gonig by land mass or population or some other formula.
>>
E-detective checking in. Here are my findings on this Tofusensei.

Ealiest I can track back his fansubbing activities is to a group called BakaMX, which seemed to stop activities around '02. They were a group with pre-digi history and seemed to carry much of the misguided faggotry ethics that surrounded groups in that generation.

Then this guy seemed to be a founding member of Live-eviL along with other bakaMX members, around '01. It should be noted that L-E also enforces old style fansubber ethics, which is becoming more of a hopeless stance as both the western and japanese industries tell them they hate them as much as any fansubber.

I also found rumors that a group that subbed Fruits Basket named Furuba Fansubs was actually these bakaMX members under a different name (before the show was licenced of course).

No wonder why answerman seems ok with interviewing this guy he is basically the sort of dinosaur that needs to die and disappear from the scene, to make way from the anonymous no brand fansubbing that is emerging today.
>>
>>10164904
It goes without saying that the industry likes responsible fansubbers better.

Also, "anonymous no brand fansubbing" is a tiny, tiny minority of all fansubbing and will remain so. People fansub for attention and 4chan is not the entire internet.
>>
>>10164838
Isn't Toyko the largest city on the planet? 38% of that is an Xbox huge number.
>>
>>10165053
It's the most populous metropolitan area in the world with, I think, 32 million people.
>>
>>10165006

It's not the whole internet but it should be noted that in anime communities there is a bit of 4chan. It has become a nexus of a sorts. Also I should have been less specific, people also post on 4chan for attention I mostly meant the sort of fans that you have around these places, fans who emerged entirely on the internet and are removed from the old traditions of fansubbing, as opposed to the old closed circle system of older fansubbing groups, who acts like some secret order and stays seperate from everyone not into the fansubbing scene.

Also the industry hates all fansubbers equally, they want a perfect world where everyone buys DVDs like they should out of a sense of duty and act like the masters of anime in the western fandom when in reality they are years behind. They will not compromise on this stance, Answerman is just trying to win neturality points.
>>
>>10165076

35,000,000 actually, and that covers 4 prefectures. Tokyo prefecture itself is around 12,000,000 people, which is god damn impressive when you consider how small the actual prefecture is and how much of that space is needed for commerical development.
>>
>>10165094
Answerman is not neutral he wants fansubers jailed because they are "killing Anime"
>>
>>10165139

And I was implying exactly that, can you read?
>>
>>10165094
Of course the industry (on both sides of the Pacific) want people to buy DVDs. But if a series has been completely fansubbed, it's probably got less sales potential (if marginally) than something that stopped being fansubbed when the license was announced.
>>
>>10165195
I am happy to by DVDs of series I have seen completely and enjoyed otherwise no way. The product is too overpriced to take a gamble on.
>>
>>10165195

That point is moot though since if it was a series that would actually have no groups interested in subbing it licenced, then it would be a series that no one could be bothered buying in the first place. Fans are only going to do that for a big ticket item that you will never run out of fansubbers on.

The thorn in the dub industry's side comes from the fact that fansubbing exists, that even ethical fansubbers created this trade online that will not go away. They do not give a shit what interest it can garner, they want a market where fans entirely depend on the infomation they recieve and publish, and decide what might be worth picking up based on what they licence and propagate.
>>
>>10165262
What they want is for anime to be making money. They're not stupid enough to believe that fansubbing will disappear overnight.
>>
>>10165351
If they want anime to make money then they have one of two options.
1) Keep fansubs, re-evaluate their business model.
2) Put anime on TV, re-evaluate their business model.

2 isn't looking all that likely any time soon.
>>
>>10165351
Actually they want to make insane amounts of money off of Anime and don't give a shit about anything else. They all want to get insanely rich off of Anime.
>>
>>10165378
>>
LOL AMERICA

FUCK YEAH CAPITALISM
>>
>>10165378
They're evidently in the wrong business if all they're interested in is profit.

>>10165377
Alternatively, internet distribution solutions. Personally I like the idea of 0-day official subs, either through an ad-supported streaming service, a flat-fee subscription service or (less ideally) a small charge per episode. But there are lots of obstacles to this.
>>
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ANN is only good for the encycopeida. ONLY!
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>>10165416
mostly based on greed.
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>>10165416
Netflix, but dedicated to fast online anime downloads.
>>
>>10165457
AT&T is going to try and kill any service like this. It's cheaper than doing all the network upgrades they got federal tax brakes for and they already spent all they money paying the CEO's big bonuses and stockholders anyway.
>>
>>10165416
All TV shows should be available online at TV-quality via an ad-supported service shortly after they air. And that means downloads, not just streaming. People who want their high qualities can buy themselves some DVDs when shit comes out.

Directly regarding animu 0-day downloadable subbed TV-quality releases from the studios would be ideal, although maybe a bit optimistic. They really should be working on getting simultaneous releases anyhow. It can't cost that much to hire some guy to translate the script for subtitles if fansubbers can get their shit out without an actual script within 24 hours of the original release.
>>
>>10165444
true
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>>10165494
Doesn't ABC7 do this already? IIRC my mother was watching some shows from it streaming from the site (the TV show with the housewives who do nothing)
>>
>>10165534
I dunno, maybe it does. I don't actually know who ABC7 are (I'm guessing "American Broadcasting Company" or something, like the BBC).
>>
>>10165452
Mostly based on the current system of licensing/general interaction between the Japanese and American studios not being flexible enough to deal with it.
>>
>>10164904
whats old-style fansubbing?



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