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RE: The endless buy it/download it debate.

You know, I think the biggest defense of downloading (albeit not a reason *not* to buy) anime of late is, ironically, the preservation of the original broadcast form of the episodes. With so many series being changed between broadcast and DVD release (and those same DVD masters being used for the international versions), the original form of the episode would be basically lost forever without the fansub scene there to distribute it all around the world.
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>>10156577
... I thought they usually upgraded the DVD version (i.e. more fan-service, higher quality video, etc.)
>>
>>You know, I think the biggest defense of downloading (albeit not a reason *not* to buy) anime of late is, ironically, the preservation of the original broadcast form of the episodes.

It's really a minor reason, and besides, the alterations are often fanservice thing or something, quality improvments. Not really a true alteration of the spirit of the original broadcasted show (most of the times).
>>
>the preservation of the original broadcast form of the episodes

What a logic

Why would anyone want to preserve such a shitty non-HD broadcast with censoring and some shitty QUALITY frames?
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Reason I'm not really into buying animu nowdays is because they don't sell the fucking HD version. I bought an HDTV to watch HD material on god dammit!
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It's not illegal, and nobody wants to wait for DVDs to come out. There's no reason NOT to do it.
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>>10156738
It actually is illegal

Don't justify you actions with lies
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I download because I don't want shitty "official" translations. That and buying R1 DVDs only supports dub-making licensing companies.
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I still don't understand how people can "Debate" this.

I will steal things because I want to steal them and it's easy to steal.

I will buy things when I like them enough to actually buy them.

No debate, that's pretty much it.
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>>10156760
Illegal in Japan, maybe.
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omg is that za paper vs robin? wtf
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blah blah blah blah quack quack
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>>10156644

And sometimes they actually DO change things. Just last week /a/ was shitstorming over changes on the most recent Gurren-Lagann DVD (namely dropping Kiyal making faces at Anne in favor of a more serious scene). And I seem to recall many more times when people were like "why on earth would they ever change that?"
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>>10156763

I don't understand this at all. Common sense says that I'd much rather have professional translators who are getting paid than some guy sitting at his computer who may or may not be fluent in Japanese.

While there are certain advantages to fansubs (translators notes, more literal translations if you prefer that) I can't count the number of times that some name or phrase has been wrong or poorly worded. Often the subbers are then too lazy to go back and fix their mistake.

That's not to say that professional companies don't make poor translation choices but by and large they seem to do better quality work.
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I hope you all don't really care that much about anime becasue you illegal download is killing industry
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>>10156785
International copyright laws? You're safe if you live in Laos or some other place that doesn't adhere to it though.
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>>10156806

They cut some tiny scene but by and large the DVD is an improvement.
>>
I dunno if this is an issue or not, as I've never tried to buy anime in HD - it's possible that they have blu-ray releases, but DVDs have such shit capacity that they simply can't store playable (read: in a DVD player) video at an acceptable resolution.

I can play HD anime on my hdtv just by hooking it up to my computer. I don't even need to buy a blu-ray player.

DVD is dead, and the format set to take up where it left off is still in its infancy.
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>>10156893
Been doing it for years without any problems, every else here will say the same. Enjoy your illusions.
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>>10156863
>>by and large they seem to do better quality work.

lol no
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>>10156890
fucktards like bandai visual usa are killing the industry. so are idiots like adv buying up several million shitty titles then wondering why they're not making money.
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>>10156917
>>DVD is dead
lolno. Format that still has over 90% of the market is FAR form dead.
>>
>>10156890
Doesn't work that way.
>>
Don't buy anime unless you buy it from Japan. There is no reason. Unless you really want anime to get more popular in America. And who the fuck wants that.
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>>10156863
Not really, especially if they decided to use dubtitles.
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>>10156924
What illusions? I'm not saying that animu companies will get RIAA/MPAA on your asses, I'm just saying that downloading fansubs is indeed ilegal, despite companies not coming out to get you.

Ofcourse, you're fucked if you live in Singapore. They only country that I've actually heard of going after fansubs.
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>>10156925

No? Then give me some examples.

All the anime I've bought or rented has had translations that are just fine. Some are even very good - Mushishi for instance kept all the original mushi names and translated their components in parenthesis.
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>>10156890

What 'industry'? The only industry that I actually care about is the industry that animates the show. North American viewers aren't even a part of that industry's projected clientele.

The North American industry is just copypasta of something I could otherwise get for free without denting the Japanese industry's profits, because I never factored into their business equation in the first place. If I were to buy it at all, I'd import it from people who actually took some part in making it, not buy it from some middleman who took a finished product and slapped his name on it.
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>>10156941

What the hell are you talking about? Why WOULDN'T I want that?

God forbid I might actually want to walk into a book store and read manga or see an anime someday simultaneously released in theaters or on TV here.
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>>10156863
You are leaving out one critical component in this argument of DL/buy. Moneys. I'd much rather DL a good/high quality ripped show that is pretty damn close to 'accurately' translated for free, over paying a premium for professionally subbed/dubbed domestic DVDs. Of which 99.99% of the time I never even think about switching the dubbed audio track on. Not to mention the ridiculous time lag between airing -> licensing -> localization -> local availability.

Now if domestic anime translation companies were to stop wasting time with dubbing, never fucking think about censoring/editing anything, and start releasing in a reasonable amount of time at a reasonable cost - hell yeah I'd start buying DVD.

In before 'but DVDs are waaaaay more in Japan, waaaaaaaaah' arguments.
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>>10157042

Enjoy your freaking expensive (non subtitled) imports or your Bandai Visual.
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>>10157042
thats not your right. its the tright of the copyright holder to decide distribution. period.
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>>10156984
Slayers - Dubtitles everywhere!
Evangelion - 80% Dubtitles
Outlaw Star - Same as Eva

I would post more but that would be redundant. All the anime I've ever bought has shitty subs.
>>
Localization Studios do not give money to Japanese studios at all. Do not give them money which they would not be using as licensing and royalty fees.
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>>10156863

I've only read this far in the thread, but I'm pretty sure you're about to get shat on, if you haven't already. This is blatantly untrue.

Official subs take a backseat to dubs, are generally way too literal. As a result, they sound unnatural and often times pretty silly.
>>
>>10157086
>>Localization Studios do not give money to Japanese studios at all.
Huh? They buy the rights to series.
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>>10157082
Not in the information age. If you want your 'intellectual property' (doesn't actually exist, but that's another argument) to make you money, you damn well better make it very worth the while for people to pay for your 'official' version, because freebies are always available thanks to the wonders of the interweb.

And as a whole, domestic companies fail to provide what the majority of their customer base wants. That being (making a few assumptions) original form (no editing), high quality (HD video anyone?), accurate translations, and affordable pricing.

The only reason domestic distributors are crying is because they aren't fulfilling their obligations to the consumer - their boss.
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>>10157218
it's still illegal, and wrong
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>>10157080
>>10157082

I'll enjoy my fansubs instead thanks. I said 'if' I bought anime at all, I'd get it from the source. I don't.

I don't particularly care if it's 'my right' at all, until they come knocking on my door, which doesn't happen. When it does, you're free to laugh at me, but we'd all be fucked anyway, so enough of your hypocrisy. Take your bleeding heart back to animesuki.
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>>10157253
Sure it's illegal. Nobody in this thread thus far has said it isn't.

Where we differ is our definition of wrong (and the application thereof).

Is it wrong to want high quality video? Picture quality, sound quality, etc.

Is it wrong to want both accurate and 'englishized' translations? Instead of clunky sounding 100% literal word-by-word subtitle tracks, with a ton of effort and money getting wasted on a dub that practically nobody listens to anyway?

Is it wrong to expect a 'fair' (I use the word lightly) pricing scheme and fast releases?

As the consumer, I determine what my money is worth. If domestic distro companies want my money, they will provide what I've detailed above. Do I have my price set in stone, 100% immovable? Of course not, I'm willing to reach a compromise. They need to start working on their end to make the compromise work though.

tl;dr
please cry more, I really don't care what you think
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>>10157400
thanks. I wasn't satisfied after the first 3-4 paragraphs
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>>10157253

We don't care. Stop trolling.

We've gone over this argument a billion times, and general consensus, after looking at all sides of the argument is that most people would be happier with the NA anime industry floating belly up.

Most people don't download fansubs out of spite, just out of convenience, but you're welcome to think of it like that if you prefer.
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>>10157218
hahaha

If not for intellectual property, we wouldn't have much of an information age. I agree their products are inferior, but that doesn't give you the right to steal.
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>>10157218
>>intellectual property' (doesn't actually exist, but that's another argument)
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>>10157086 Localization Studios do not give money to Japanese studios at all. Do not give them money which they would not be using as licensing and royalty fees.

Wow, look at how big a retard this guy is.
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>>10157469
It gives me the right to decide not to purchase their product. At which point the internet allows me to obtain it for free.

Tell me when the domestic distros start providing (within reason) what I mentioned above and I'll start buying.
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>>10157522

Feel free to prove him wrong, instead of just calling him a retard...
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>>10157545
that's called stealing. deal.
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>>10156984 No? Then give me some examples.

Keep in mind the guy you're replying to probably things something is dubtitled if he doesn't see words like "Aniki" in the subs.
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>>10157408

>>and general consensus, after looking at all sides of the argument is that most people would be happier with the NA anime industry floating belly up.

/a/ is very shortsighted. I can guarantee that if that happened things would be shittier.
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>>10157400

I hope by "englishized" you don't mean crap like changing what the characters say or using words that don't exist in Japanese (I.E. with slang terms and curses).

An example of the former would be changing a joke or something instead of leaving it there and leaving a note about it.
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>>10157551

His comment is so blatantly dumb and wrong that it doesn't warrant a detailed reply.
>>
why do i download anime?
because it's free, and because if i didn't dl anime i'd just do something else; i'd probably replace it with some other instant-gratification form of entertainment like video games.

would i buy anime? ever?
NO.

therefore i do not care even if it is "immoral", since if i couldn't DL anime i would have nothing to do with it. i'm not depriving them of any revenue because i would have nothing to do with anime or manga if it wasn't downloadable at a whim anyways. in fact, you could argue that it's more advantageous for them to have one more person who's knowledgeable about anime and has a better opinion of it than the average person.

maybe i will be willing to buy anime when it has a better reputation in society, but until that day you can forget it.
>>
I'm totally proud to buy legitimate R1 anime DVD's. I only torrent/download for stuff that hasn't come out here or ever will or if there's a series that I'm not sure I want to buy but still see or if it's something OOP.

So yeah, I like giving $$$ to the R1 industry.

NEENER NEENER NEENER FOLKS
>>
Maybe if the localization 'studios' could actually produce 'quality' work. We wouldn't haveto steal there shit. think of that?
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>>10157556

HEY BRO!
WHATS UP BRO!
YOU'RE SO AWESOME BRO!
I WISH I WAS AS COOL AS YOU BRO!
>>
>>10157218
>>original form (no editing)
Why do people still believe that DVD edit shit? Only thing that is edited in anime in the US is the TV broadcast in mainstream cable and a couple cable channels that don't have the license to show stuff above PG13 (aka Cartoon Network, Sci-Fi Channel). If there was any editing in the DVDs, it's usually the music and that's because they hafta to go outside the industry and though read tape and pay alot of money (aka Speed Grapher's losing it's OP by Duran Duran because it would be a fuckload of money to pay for it).

Seriously, stop with the illusion that DVDs are edited on a constant basis unless they're kids' shows.
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>>10157596maybe i will be willing to buy anime when it has a better reputation in society, but until that day you can forget it.

So wait, in order for you to like something it has to have mainstream expectance?
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>>10157596

If you're not a real fan, why the fuck are you here?
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>>10156577
>>10156760
>>10156890
>>10157082
>>10157253
>>10157469
>>10157555

Same person. Started the thread and keeps it going by repeating the word 'steal' like a mantra. Yes, your trolling is impeccable, but it's easy to max out a thread if you talk about this shit. We know it's stealing, and we don't care. Nobody ever said it wasn't stealing, except one guy at the top, and we corrected him. Shut up already.

You think you're a big deal by maxing out a thread if it's a contested issue, but really you're just a cancer. Do you start all the eva threads too?
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Copyright is a form of censorship. I don't like censorship. I'll leave it at that.
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So you want the thing that someone made that you happen to enjoy to never get anything out of it?

Seriously, I hate a/'s logic.
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>>10157694

Shut the fuck up you communist.
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>>10157684
See, this is what happens to you when you can't accept the fact that you're a thief. You start throwing out silly accusations of trolling instead of making salient arguments.
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>>10157653

I consider a terrible (usually "westernized") sub job to be a form of editing.
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>>10157653 If there was any editing in the DVDs, it's usually the music and that's because they hafta to go outside the industry and though read tape and pay alot of money (aka Speed Grapher's losing it's OP by Duran Duran because it would be a fuckload of money to pay for it).

Actually, in that case it was because the owner of the rights to that Duran Duran song refused to negotiate at all with Funimation to be able to use it.

Funi tried and were willing to pay.
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>>10157661

I hate anime. I watch it and enjoy it, but I secretly resent its existence for taking up all my time and giving rise to boards like this, which take up more of my time. I could be using that time to do something worthwhile.

I'd never even dream of spending money to encourage people to make more of it.
>>
I don't know why /a/ allows this whole "I won't ever pay one cent for my anime" attitude.

It's guys like >>10157596 who espouse this crap. They don't actually give a shit about anime or who makes it. Which is pretty pathetic for any fandom. They're nothing but dead weight.

Now I know that makes me sound like a righteous bitch but I'm not saying you should stop downloading entirely. I just think if you gave a fuck about you hobby you might actually support the shows you really like. Even if that just means buying one series a year.
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>>10157752

That's because you're a huge Japanophile idiot who doesn't know the first thing about how translations should actually be done.
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>>10157694
GB2/g/
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>>10157587
By that I mean flowing naturally in English. I do like translator's notes to explain things that haven't been brought up before as well.

>>10157555
Call me when that means something. Until then, stfu.

>>10157596
Opportunity cost exists. Therefore you are technically depriving R1 distros of money. As are most people here. Not that it matters, just correcting your post.

>>10157597
\o/ good for you, hopefully you'll stop getting inferior product when the companies wise up to what the consumers want

>>10157653
4kids - google it, nuff said. That aside, several companies have a long history of significantly altering the content of shows to make it more 'region friendly'. Satisfied?
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>>10157795

I'll support the show's creators but I don't and won't support the licensors who dub it and do a shitty and/or westernized translation.
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>>10157815

Fair enough, but do you actually back that up and import DVDs from Japan? Personally I'd rather pay a lot less money on subs that are usually good enough.
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>>10157813
4kids has never worked with anything I've wanted to watch. Not my problem.
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I do both. Animators need to eat, but I'm not going to buy DVDs of something I won't give a second watch.

I don't view it as stealing. Then again, I watch subs once, often on streaming download sites, and delete afterwards(unless there's no fucking chance of a legal subbed release), instead of burning it to DVD like some of you faggots.

(Yeah, I know. Lots of these shows originally air on cable. But at the same time, moar people watching generally means moar DVDs sold.)
>>
>>10157815 I don't and won't support the licensors who dub it

HAVING A LANGUAGE TRACK ON A DVD THAT I WILL NEVER LISTEN TO ANYWAY COMPLETELY OUTRAGES ME
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>>10157815
Guess what, they own the distro rights for their countries. Buying from them IS supporting the creators, anything else is stealing.
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>>10157694
>>Copyright is a form of censorship.
How dare those capitalist pigs try to protect and control their work. Everything should belong to the state and given freely to its glorious people.
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>>10157795
I've bought series I considered to be worth the cost before. A few examples are Cowboy Bebop (fantastic dub), a handful of Ghibli movies, etc..

The point is that the 'fantastically done' titles should not be unusual. Every title should have a damn good job done with it, and they currently aren't. At least in my (and many others) opinion.
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>>10157813 4kids - google it, nuff said.

4kids are not an anime company and never have been, they're also an extreme minority examples and using them as 'proof' of anime on dvd being edited is a laughable stretch.
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>>10157745

I don't want to make an argument. It would encourage this raped beaten dead horse of a thread to continue.

I STEAL anime because I don't want to pay for it, primarily, and secondly, because I physically cannot get it at the same quality as the stuff that I STEAL for free.

If that bothers you, you're not anonymous. Go away.

I don't suppose you even read my post, as I admitted to stealing it there too, and you still accuse me of denying it.

> We know it's stealing, and we don't care. Nobody ever said it wasn't stealing, except one guy at the top, and we corrected him.
>>
>>10157836

Yes I actually do import the Japanese DVDs. I don't buy them whenever I download a series though. If I liked a series then I import the boxed set if I have enough money.
>>
R1 is shit, R2 DVD rips > *. R2 doesn't come with fukken subs, so we have to pirate it and mux it with fansubs.

/thread
>>
I'm a weeaboo, isn't that really the only reason?
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>>10157684
I'm >>10156760

I'm not saying that people shouldn't download animu, people can do whatever the fuck they want. Shit, I have 15 gigs worth of animu downloading in BT right now.

I'm saying if you're going to justify you're position, don't use blatant lies like it's not illegal.
>>
FLCL on 3 DVDs seems a decent argument for downloading. I love the series but come on!
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>>10156863
Then buy from Odex! I heard they steal afk's subs for Haruhi.
>>
Being a person who is fluent in both English and Japanese, I'd like to weigh in on the translation quality aspect of the argument.

I would say that in general the professional region 1 translations are of lower quality than fansubs. There are certainly good R1 translations, as there are very bad fansubs, but they're the exceptions rather than the rule. It's not a matter of more or less "literal" of a translation, but outright errors. Particularly in the last few years, the average fansub has become very good.

As for my personal opinion, I choose to download my anime (either in RAW or subbed format, depending on what's more readily available) because I have grown tired of paying for poor quality dubs and poor translations from companies that are slow and fickle about releasing series and are too quick to make their own changes. I wouldn't be disappointed to see the English R1 anime market completely tank.
>>
>>10157661
because i enjoy it?

which does not mean that:
1. i think the majority of it is worth money
2. i want to share the fact that i do so with other people
3. i enjoy it so much that if i had no other option than to buy it that i wouldn't simply replace it with some other form of free instant-gratification entertainment such as an online game, forums, etc.

>>10157655
no, in order for me to enjoy something enough to buy it and own physical copies of it, it has to have enough "mainstream expectance" not to make me a laughingstock and my life hell if certain people discovered it(via credit card bills, bad mail timing, accidents, etc.).
if you're going to try to make me feel like a little man by spouting that thing your parents told you that what other people think about you doesn't matter, feel free; it's bullshit and if you believe that applies to everyone's set of values you are blind.

>>10157795
for your sake, i hope you don't download free music and don't donate to the people that make it. and i hope you don't suscribe to any free game services or forums without making donations. i hope you donate to 4chan. because all of those are just as worthy of SOME payment as anime is.
ignoring potential hypocrisy, i'd have less of a problem with donating to good anime studious, because then the money goes directly to who it should and i don't have to own any money or have anything on bills that people i don't want to have see those things won't see.
>>
>>10157857
If it increases the cost significantly, and lowers the quality of video/number of episodes on a disc (increasing cost again) then fuck yes it outrages me.

>>10157841
Irrelevant. You asked for an example and I gave you one. What if more companies started looking at 4kids as an acceptable business model? What then? The shows that you ARE interested in start getting turned to shit.
>>
>>10157661
because i enjoy it?

which does not mean that:
1. i think the majority of it is worth money
2. i want to share the fact that i do so with other people
3. i enjoy it so much that if i had no other option than to buy it that i wouldn't simply replace it with some other form of free instant-gratification entertainment such as an online game, forums, etc.

>>10157655
no, in order for me to enjoy something enough to buy it and own physical copies of it, it has to have enough "mainstream expectance" not to make me a laughingstock and my life hell if certain people discovered it(via credit card bills, bad mail timing, accidents, etc.).
if you're going to try to make me feel like a little man by spouting that thing your parents told you that what other people think about you doesn't matter, feel free; it's bullshit and if you believe that applies to everyone's set of values you are blind.

>>10157795
for your sake, i hope you don't download free music and don't donate to the people that make it. and i hope you don't suscribe to any free game services or forums without making donations. i hope you donate to 4chan. because all of those are just as worthy of SOME payment as anime is.
ignoring potential hypocrisy, i'd have less of a problem with donating to good anime studious, because then the money goes directly to who it should and i don't have to own any physical products(for any duration, or have them mailed to me) or have anything on bills that people i don't want to have see those things won't see.
>>
>>10157661
because i enjoy it?

which does not mean that:
1. i think the majority of it is worth money
2. i want to share the fact that i do so with other people
3. i enjoy it so much that if i had no other option than to buy it that i wouldn't simply replace it with some other form of free instant-gratification entertainment such as an online game, forums, etc.

>>10157655
no, in order for me to enjoy something enough to buy it and own physical copies of it, it has to have enough "mainstream expectance" not to make me a laughingstock and my life hell if certain people discovered it(via credit card bills, bad mail timing, accidents, etc.).
if you're going to try to make me feel like a little man by spouting that thing your parents told you that what other people think about you doesn't matter, feel free; it's bullshit and if you believe that applies to everyone's set of values you are blind.

>>10157795
for your sake, i hope you don't download free music and don't donate to the people that make it. and i hope you don't suscribe to any free game services or forums without making donations. i hope you donate to 4chan. because all of those are just as worthy of SOME payment as anime is.
ignoring potential hypocrisy, i'd have less of a problem with donating to good anime studios, because then the money goes directly to who it should and i don't have to own any physical products(for any duration, or have them mailed to me) or have anything on bills that people i don't want to have see those things won't see.
>>
>>10157857

YES IT DOES. ALthough dubs are good for some laughs.
>>
>>10157949
It's on 6 DVDs in Japan. And quite honestly, the new R1 Box set is reasonably priced with tons of extras.

I still downloaded it though, since I'm poor. But for anyone who has a decent job, it's not exactly shit like most other R1 animu.
>>
>>10157813
>>4kids - google it, nuff said. That aside, several companies have a long history of significantly altering the content of shows to make it more 'region friendly'. Satisfied?

That's why I said unless they were kids shows that would be broadcast on a major network which is understandable. Besides, it was their shitty business decisions that made 4Kids drop out of the American animu industry and nothing of value was lost.
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>>10158005
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>>10157971
meh, afk voided any protections they deserved for subs when they illegally distributed haruhi
>>
3 episodes for $30? not even in hd (720p, 1080p)? paying for dub I won't even use? and delays the release?

do not want

>>10157949
>>10157908
agrees
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>>10157815
>>
>>10157961 If it increases the cost significantly, and lowers the quality of video/number of episodes on a disc (increasing cost again) then fuck yes it outrages me.

The majority of the time, it does the exact opposite of the first, and is completely irrelevant to the second - anime dvds have never been packed with episodes enough to have space issues, well, ever, except in the case of some very rare (or very old) examples.

So you're whining about a complete non-issue.
>>
I don't know about the rest of you, but the majority of anime and manga(especially hentai manga) I enjoy because it's just so terrible that it's humorous.
>>
>>10157976
>>not to make me a laughingstock and my life hell if certain people
Sounds like you're a pussy. If you are surrounded by people that would mock you and 'make your life hell' for enjoying certain fringe forms of entertainment than you need to get new friends. Or move out. Or anything really.
>>
I require my subs to appeal to my inner weeaboo. I want to shit like otou-san, nakama, daijoubu, and keikaku doori. It makes life worth living.
>>
The R1 release for Tekkaman Blade is one of the best I've seen done. It had REAL extras and was an excellent price.
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>>10158023 3 episodes for $30? not even in hd (720p, 1080p)? paying for dub I won't even use? and delays the release?

Anime doesn't cost $30 for 3 episodes.

Yet another non-existent complaint.
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>>10157976

>>nd i hope you don't suscribe to any free game services or forums without making donations. i hope you donate to 4chan. because all of those are just as worthy of SOME payment as anime is.

Wait, what? Oh man that's pure comedy right there.

You're comparing signing up for a FREE service such as posting on a forum to stealing a PRODUCT that was made by a company and a professional staff?

The two are absolutely in no way similar.

As for the fact that you won't buy anime because you're paranoid that somebody will find the receipt, well I don't even know what to say. I sort of feel bad for you.
>>
>>10157855
>HOW DARE YOU ARCHIVE SHOWS IN CASE YOU WANNA REWATCH THEM, EVEN THOUGH THEY WILL NEVER BE RELEASED IN R1.
>>
>>10158078
thanks for your view, but both life and society are more complicated than "friends" making me feel bad be the only factor.
>>
>>10158096

That was just for FLCL.

I got all of Nadesico for $32 a last month.
>>
>>10157971

That's actually pretty smart on their behalf... It's a wonder more companies don't steal prevalent subbing groups' subs. It's not like the subbing group can press charges, can they? They stole the work that they used to create the subtitles in the first place. They don't really have a leg to stand on.

I wouldn't buy it, knowing that the subs are taken from someone else, on principle alone, but I'm sure lots of people who don't know better would.
>>
>>10158023
You're argument doesn't apply to everything.

A) Street price are near 20
B) Not all shows are made in HD, even shows broadcasted in HD in Japan aren't always sold in HD there.
C) Companies, Like Animego, sometimes release sub only episodes.
D) Surely you aren't asking for them to release on the same day as in Japan.
>>
>>10158051
Please tell me how time (= money) and energy and employees spent working on a dub track doesn't raise the cost at all.
>>
Like copying any copyrighted information without authorisation, copying data such as licensed anime or movies should be illegal.

Just get over it, nor information or any forms of data were never never free. Actually the whole world pretty much functions based limited access of information.
>>
>>10158150

How about you go actually take a look at most anime DVD prices for a change? And don't come running back with shit from Bandai Visual, no one likes their pricing scheme and no one is defending it.
>>
>>10158167
>>Like copying any copyrighted information without authorisation, copying data such as licensed anime or movies should be illegal.
It already is.
>>
>>10158167
With that in mind, your post should be copyrighted too. Fucktard.
>>
>>10158096

Only for Bandai Visual, which has been a shitty company anyway.

No one's gonna buy Sola or True Tears. When they release another classic 80's OVA like Gunbuster (the only thing I have from them), buy more form them.

Actually, I think Media Blasters has been the best R1 company this past year.
>>
>>10158079

Me too but to a lesser extent. Titles, terms and phrases that don't have a proper english version should be in the subs with a note the first time it appears.
>>
>>10158104
the receipt thing was just an example.

does it matter whether it's professional or not? work is still being done to deliver you entertainment. the comedy would be that you think that some people's work is worth paying for, but others isn't simply because they don't ask for money. you have no way of knowing the level of expertise the people who operate free methods of entertainment such of these possess.
>>
>>10158150

Are you an idiot or just 12 years old?

Subtitled only dvds sell significantly less copies than dubbed anime does - dubs don't cost money, they MAKE money.

Or at least they did, until the shift we've seen in recent times. Now things have reached the point where low end niche titles are not selling enough to cover that cost, so it's more cost effective to just release without them. The market is not in good enough shape for the higher end titles to subsidize poor sellers the way it once could.
>>
>>.10158184
>All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. _Comments are owned by the Poster._
>>
>>10158096
http://www.amazon.com/Desert-Punk-Vol-Into/dp/B000BZ8ICQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1
205202556&sr=8-2
Not quite $30, and it looks like 4eps, but close enough. (DP because I'm too lazy to think of another title)
>>
>>10158134
the same could be said of your argument--I'm just stating what I see...

as for releasing the same-day in japan--sure I could expect *some* delay, but not over a year
>>
>>10158184
>All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. ___Comments are owned by the Poster.___
>>
>>10158196

God you're an idiot.
>>
>>10158188
I just preordered Marimite from Nozomi/RightStuf the other day. They'll be the best company by far if they pick up ARIA next.
>>
>>10158227

Wow, the complete series for $50!

http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=799431

LEARN TO FUCKING INTERNET
>>
>>10158184
It is
>>
>>10158196
oh, and as an addendum--i hope you purchase your hentai as well, or don't read any hentai that comes from comic collections.
i bet many of you here are either hypocrites, trolls, or simply people that will argue that it is wrong but just don't care.
>>
>>10158227
Learn to buy online
http://www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=21528848
>>
>>10158196

What the hell? Of course I'm not gonna pay somebody for a service that is free. (That being said there is no such thing as a free service and I can only use this site because I payed for my internet and because of the ads on the top).

You're argument boils down to: People put time and effort into things that you don't have to pay for directly. People also put time and effort into things you do legally have to pay for. Therefore you should either pay for every thing or pay for nothing.

That's a non-argument. It's the worst logic I've ever heard. In fact it's not even logic. I got a good kick out of it, though.
>>
>>10158244
would you like to provide some reasoning as to why?

is there a good reason you should pay people who produce anime for your entertainment and yet take advantage of people who also do work(and spend money on it) to provide you with entertainment by not helping them out financially, other than the argument that they're "not professional?"

when you pay someone, aren't you paying them either because of the labor they're doing for you or because of the knowledge/skill they're using in order to produce something?
>>
Given that it's a broadcast media in Japan, any retard with cable and a TV can watch I don't see why I need to pay for each ep.

I'm waiting for a studio to release for download an ep with maybe 5 min of ads tossed in. The cost to the studio would be almost nothing and the money from the ads would more than justify that action.

After all right now we just download it for free anyway. If someone got smart they could make some money for very little effort.
>>
>>10158269
>>Retail Price: $89.98

>>10158124
Then your life sucks, sorry to hear that.

>>10158134
Not the same day, but within 2 months can't be that hard can it?

I admit I may be exaggerating the cost and lag times, as it's been a few years since I've bought an R1 DVD. Slightly.
>>
>>10158413

>>Retail Price: $89.98

Which has what to do with anything, exactly? If you pay Retail price for anime you're an idiot.

You can get it from that site for $50, so who cares what MSRP is?
>>
>>10158345
yes, if you care about the fact that you're LEGALLY required to buy one and not the other it is a terrible argument, i acknowledge that.

do laws govern all morality for you?
>>
>>10158413
You're a huge fagot if you're still going to argue with MSRP.

>MANUFACTURE SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE
>SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE
>SUGGESTED
>>
The future: TV as you know it is dead. TV are now a hybrid of what we consider TV's and Computers, that is all programs are streemed to your TV, however you can watch TV from any broadcaster on the planet.

You want to watch a program from Brasil, Japan, America or the UK you can! Do not speak the language they are broadcasting in? Does not matter AI is fast enough to translate in real time and also bring up cultural refrences for situations which may not make sence. This is actually what anon wants.

Then if you do like the show, you can choose to order the DVD/Blue Ray/Whatever at the end of the show. That way the DVD is an offical product and even comes with nice bonuses and art work on the box, etc.
>>
>>10158413
Why are you lighting the Retail Price? It means shit if you can buy for 50 FUCKING DOLLARS.

And two months time? Fuck when the elevens get their DVDs of the show in two months and I don't want any shitty TV version of it anyway.
>>
>>10158244
Yes, following the law is idiotic.
>>
>>10158474
>>Fuck not even the elevens get their DVDs of the show in two months and I don't want any shitty TV version of it anyway.

Fix'd my retarded typo.
>>
>>10158436
Nobody is LEGALLY (omg caps!) required to buy anything. Ever. If they choose to obtain something, the laws of most countries say that they should pay for it if it comes from a legal source.

Obviously, our sources are illegal. WE'VE BEEN FUCKING SAYING THAT!

We simply don't care/don't think that the available 'legal' versions are worth the money.
>>
>>10158436

No, you're missing the point. That guy (or is that you again?) was arguing that if you're gonna pay for anime you should also dish out money to 4chan or the guy that delivers you paper.

That's bullshit and it fails to grasp even a basic understanding of economics.

Oh what the hell, why am I even trying. I should've known enough to steer clear of this shit.
>>
>>10158269
>>10158310
Sorry, I do fail at internet.

Shows how long it's been since I bought something.
>>
>>10158508
Wow, that's awesome but it doesn't JUSTIFY stealing it. So if you admit that you're stealing and it's wrong and unjustified, fine.
>>
>>10158470
>>This is actually what anon wants.

This anon speaks the truth.
>>
> do laws govern all morality for you?

No. The level to which the law is enforced governs just how much I'm willing to stick my neck out. That's about the long and short of it. I'm fairly law-abiding for things that could result in me being fined or imprisoned. 'Could' in this case meaning 'reasonably likely to happen'. Stealing subbed anime, for example, wouldn't fall under this category, as the likelyhood of you getting caught and fined is pretty much nil. I don't really abide by morals at all, largely because I don't have very many left.
>>
>>10158470
Too bad this is exactly what the bigwigs DO NOT want. This is the reason we have retarded DVD regions.
>>
>>10158548
Begone troll. Fucking blind, been said multiple times, etc..

>>10158470
Where do I sign up?
>>
>>10158644
Should've waited out longer... unless you got the special edition.
>>
>>10158269
meh, about $69 for all of Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya.. a lot better than getting it through Amazon...

still not a good price for 14 episodes
>>
>>10158610
Regions are becoming a thing of the past; see the new formats and consoles. Just won't hold up against digital distribution.
>>
>>10158511
yeah, it was the same guy, and no i did not fail to grasp your point. maybe i do fail to have even a basic understanding of economics, i don't know. i also don't know if we're even trying to argue the same point here, because i don't see how this is unreasonable. from a pure ethics standpoint, it seems logical to me that work is work, and it seems like a bit of a double standard to selectively reward one and not the other. granted you're not obligated to since no one's asking you money for it, but rewarding both still seems to me to be the 'right thing to do.'

and aren't the men who deliver you paper paid by the government through taxes you paid to them(assuming you're talking about federal postal services)?
>>
>>10158548
Another thought. I don't have the need to justify anything. I'm in the same train of thought as #10158603

And it seems like this thread is slowing down, unfortunately.
>>
I know this.

That if fansubs didn't exist, The DVD sales here would have been pathetic. The fansubs = gay crowd will never admit it. But it is true.
>>
>>10158664
that price was from dvd pacific.. all 4 volumes, widescreen (special edition there was more like $33-$36 per volume)
>>
>>10158675

Newspapers have nothing to do with the government. Wtf is wrong with you?
>>
>>10158710
I forgot to add that was the price I looked at *right this moment* (I don't own it)
>>
>>10158697
This is truth. Rarely a series that didn't have a significant presence though the intrawebs actually did well.

Too bad the FANSUB ARE KILLING THE INDUSTRY! people refused to acknowledge that or that the reasons that the American animu industry is failing because of lack of active advertising outside the animu fans and the shitastic economy.
>>
>>10158715
>(assuming you're talking about federal postal services)?
>>
>>10158653
Regions are still around, they're just redone as of all.

HD-DVD was the only format with no regioning from the next gen game/movies, but now that's dead. PS3 has no region for PS3 games, but everything else is still enforced on it, including blu-ray. 360 region is dictated by the software, which some publishers still wish to enforce.
>>
>>10158697

You speak the truth but you forgot something. It's both the fansubs AND anime blogs/information sites that watched the fansubs that are responsible for a large portion of the R1 profit.
>>
>>10158788
Your hobby is niche. Nobody wants it.
>>
>>10158738
>>10158710
Damn, if you were going to buy the DVD that aren't the special edition, you should've waited out for the thinpak like I do.

Another reason why the American animu industry fails that no one wants to buy the individual DVDs any more, they usually wait for the thinpak that would be cheaper anyway.

I'm waiting to see how the Busou Renkin experiment is gonna go with Viz to be honest.
>>
>>10158788
No, fansubs are going to force the industry to adapt in order to survive, benefiting all!

And if the industry does try and pull some RIAA/MPAA bullshit, they'll watch their sales go completely dry. Actually, I believe they already know this which is why they haven't yet.
>>
>>10158824
Those too.

But like I said! Fansubs invigorate the industry. Without them, there would be no industry. Take it or leave it, Japan.
>>
>>10158846
>I believe they already know this which is why they haven't yet.

Bullseye.
>>
>>10158838
More like nobody really doesn't know about it outside of Sailor Moon and Pokemon.
>>
>>10158844

What Busou Renkin expeirment?
>>
>>10158844
thats another thing--I understand the need for a re-release (usually to a different format, later remastered, etc) but they do it to damn often now...

plus Haruhi was on air Spring 2006.. talk about a wait...
>>
>>10156863
I don't know about American companies, but here in France the translations are REALLY shitty. The font is horrible 90% of the time (SIZE 90 AND YELLOW), no notes, shitty translation for about 40% of the releases, plus all the things we don't need... at all (french dub, even on the OP/ED ;__; )

Also, it's horribly overpriced ("collector pack" for Cowboy Bepop = 110€, something like 150$)
>>
> No, fansubs are going to force the industry to adapt in order to survive, benefiting all!

The North American anime industry is like a race of mildly retarded, mostly sterile, deformed, hideous midget version of its counterpart in Japan. They'll have a hard time even producing functional offspring, much less evolving.
>>
>>10158920

Releasing episodes in sets rather than normal volumes.

Similar to Funimation's Aquarion release, Media Blasters Tekkaman Blade release, etc
>>
>>10158920
Instead of releasing single DVDs then the boxset, Viz is going to release it in two 13 episodes thinpaks, sub only (I think it's sub only, I forgot).
>>
>>10158972

That's how it is here in the US too except the OP/ED is usually left alone and the DVDs are a bit more reasonable.
>>
>>10158972
That's something that always bugged me about older releases. HD media players need to give users more options for things like subtitles. Even a pre-determined menu with a half-dozen font types, colors, and sizes would be an incredible step forward.

Then again, my computer already does that.
>>
DL = FREE = WIN!

Also you find much more recent fansub animu on the web and some series might not even get an english release so I rather not hang around and hope for something to be licensed.

Saying that I still buy alot of animu DVDs anyway in EN/JP, JP depending on what extras they have. Same would go for mango.

Buying anime on DVD can be expensive but only if you buy them newly released. You find alot of series become relatively cheap once the whole series have been released ( box sets etc ). But obviously you would have to wait between a few months to half a year till that happens.

All english anime releases are 1-2 year behind so its kinda off-putting to wait that long so I rather DL now, buy later.
>>
>>10159002
You just described the human race. Look where we are today..

Then again, we may just be screwed either way.
>>
>>10158867
This and the fact that the "casual" watchers we so hate are the actual ones downloading, is the problem.

Even Japan's half assed licensing prices are manageable but people need to actually buy them like they did only four years ago.

I miss the times I couldbuy a Bearsuit Lain plush in Media Play more than I miss /a/ before Gurren Lagann/Lucky Star age.
>>
>>10158511
what i am trying to say(well, the part of it you're contesting) is a counter to the people using this argument:
"You're downloading anime! That's wrong!"
"Why?"
"Because people are working hard to put it out for you! Don't you think it's fucked up not to give back to them?"

and nothing more.
>>
File: 1205205091294.jpg (106 KB, 744x496)
106 KB
106 KB JPG
nough said
>>
>>10159138
YOU ARE A PIRATE
>>
>>10159156

AND A PIRATE IS ALWAYS FREE
>>
>>10159090
I never got one of those, sadly. Even when the massive 'going out of business' sales happened.

RIP Media Play
>>
>>10158824

Even 4chan is responsible for generating R1 revenue to an extent, I'm sure. Despite a vocal majority who openly don't bother with buying R1 releases, from this thread, it's obvious that there's an equally vocal minority that supports the industry, either by principle, by capital, or by both.
>>
>>10159343

4chan, much like ANN, or AOD or wherever has a healthy amount of people who *gasp* both download and buy.

They're not very vocal, because why would they be? They have the best outlook that doesn't need defending.

We just have a vocal minority of NEVER PAY EVER I WILL NEVER RUN OUT OF EXCUSES NOT TO PAY parasites where sites like ANN have white knight moral crusaders who think downloading is the devil.
>>
>>10158846
Just look at what Odex did, lol.
>>
>>10159466
>>minority

lol
>>
>>10159466

I'm part of the 'never pay' vocal minority, and I don't try to excuse my disinterest in supporting the NA industry at all. I'd like to say that I don't download because reason 1, reason 2, etc., but frankly, even if anime was released with perfect subs in 1080p, I'd still be very tight with my money.

I had planned to say that I wouldn't buy it even in that situation, but I came to realize that I probably would, if the price was right, so I suppose the quality of the release isn't such a non-issue to me as I originally thought.

It's likely that in that scenario, it would be prohibitively expensive for me though, and I'd continue to download just because of the level of availability and the convenience, in addition to the fact that it's free.

I don't discourage people from buying, but I wouldn't be particularly saddened if the industry tanked either.

Calling us parasites is a bit much, as parasites are detrimental to their hosts. It's not like I steal something physical from the industry that deprives them of the ability to sell it; I merely take a digital copy that I wasn't planning on spending money on to begin with. This isn't a rationalization. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense.
>>
I don't have any problems with downloading, but I think it's pretty messed up to not support the industry in some way if you're a fan (be it buying R1 or importing R2 DVDs, purchasing licensed merchandise, etc.). Being a college student and working only part-time I don't have a lot of income for entertainment, but I usually end up buying a series or two a year (and maybe a few figures/toys as well). Definitely not for $20/DVD, though. I'll wait for the thinpack or might pick up the DVDs if they're $10-15/ea. Hoping a Eureka Seven boxset will come out sometime for <$100, no way I'm paying $250+ for it (12 volumes at $20/ea, Bandai are you fucking insane?).
>>
>>10159974
I never buy anime but I have a shitload of manga.
>>
It would be kind of neat if 4chan ads had something to do with anime, such as advertising sites for DVD sales, for /a/. The amount of advertising for shit that I could never even consider buying on this site is ridiculous, for instance, penises. I wonder how much it costs to put up a banner here.
>>
>>10160150
email moot
>>
>>10160150
You must be very very new here
>>
Haven't bought anime in years. I occasionally buy mangwa.
>>
>>10160709

Heh, no. I've just had ads blocked for a very long time. Have they become more relevant?
>>
>>10160747
Well for a while, they added things for the ladies. For instance, penises.
>>
>>10160747
All the relevant stuff has been removed.
>>
Half of you faggots don't realize that if the American anime industry tanked, the Japanese companies would be out of a lot of money, meaning they might not produce anything risky, just MOE MOE~ faggotry.

And to all of you /a/ssholes who go "DURRRRRRRRRRRR I hate that there is a time lag before the R1s come out," use your fucking heads. Why would R1 companies release a DVD soon after a show aired? Don't they, you know, have to first confirm that it's a popular show? The only reason VIZ was able to license and distribute Death Note so quickly was because Death Note is one of their best selling manga. I doubt anyone would have licensed Haruhi until they realized that it sold a shit ton of DVDs, CDs, figures, ect. That's how they judge popularity.

There is also what is known as "reverse importation," when the Elevens import our cheap DVDs. Seeing as how they often get 2-3 episodes for $50+, it's no wonder they would want 4-5 episodes for $30. That's why the Japanese companies won't allow the American DVDs to be released until a year or so after the Japanese ones come out, so the Eleven fans have to buy their expensive shit.

Fuckheads.
>>
>>10160902

The only money the Japanese get from the R1 market is the licensing fee the licensor pays them. Everything else goes to the licensing companies.
Faggot
>>
>>10160902
Have fun with that cock up your ass.

I don't give a fuck why 'x' or 'y' seeks to delay the domestic release, it needs to be dealt with.
>>
>>10156577

I do not consider the anime I download stolen. Stealing implies something of value or potential revenue was lost by someone. I liked anime ~5 years before bittorrent was widely used or before I ever downloaded a single episode of anything and never spent a cent on it. I didn't even have anything better than 26.4k dialup until 2004. If it wasn't available for free on the internet I wouldn't pay for it anyway. Something I may watch once or twice a year max isn't worth paying for and I certainly wouldn't pay for it. Anime companies haven't lost a dime from me personally downloading anime. As for the NA anime industry, I really don't care, there are only about 1000 things I care more about 99% of those don't get my money either.
>>
>>10160902
>>just MOE MOE~ faggotry.
You say that as if it's a bad thing.
>>
>>10156760

Well it is TECHNICALLY illegal but the jurisdictional conflicts make enforcement nearly impossible.
>>
>>10162876

Uh, no, the majority of nations adhering to the international copyright treaties make it ILLEGAL and yes, you could be sued for copyright infringement for anime like any other copyrighted work.
>>
>>10162748
Oh you.
>>
christ, this thread is still here?
>>
>>10162628
"Stealing a Ferrari isn't really stealing, because I never would have bought a Ferrari anyway!"

It sounds just as dumb when you say it about anime.
>>
>>10161250
No shit. But if no one buys the R1 DVDs, companies stop licensing anime, meaning the Japanese companies lose a shit ton of money. Use your brain.

>>10161260
I've already explained why nothing can make it quicker. Why would a company take a gamble by licensing a show that is still airing/coming out on DVD when they can wait a year and see how sales of the DVDs and merchandise were in Japan?

And even if the R1 distributors wanted to speed up the releases, the Japanese probably wouldn't let them, for fear of reverse importing.
>>
>>10163349

Except for that fact that analogy is fucking retarded and you know it. If you could make a copy of a Ferrari out of thin air by pressing a button, then yes, it wouldn't be stealing at all.
>>
>>10163349
Are you TRYING to sound like an idiot?
>>
>>10163509
>>10163527
Obvious samefag is obvious.
>>
>>10163393
the retarded fanboys will keep the farse known as american anime industry going, while we will keep suppressing our power level and download away
>>
>>10163568

Sorry faggot, >>10163527 isn't me. ( >>10163509 )
>>
>>10163349


This analogy haven´t sense
>>
I'll be honest this was actually a very good read but sadly I have to ask is...

what's r1?
>>
>>10165176
Seriously? Those codes refer to regions for DVDs
>>
>>10165191
ohhh ok thanks
>>
>>10163737
>>10163509
Samefag
>>
"I don't have any problems with downloading, but I think it's pretty messed up to not support the industry in some way if you're a fan."

Yeah, agreed.

There's one thing that I don't think gets mentioned very much on this topic: questions of "morality" aside, *Most anime is simply not worth paying for.* Although I downloaded Eureka Seven, I'm currently buying the DVDs one at a time, all 13 of them, because I think it's the greatest anime saga ever made. Same for Haibane Renmei and Last Exile. But if I'd had to cough up significant bucks to see "Soukou no Strain" or "Noein" or "Fate/Stay Night" (whose apparent popularity I can't explain by rational means), I'd likely have just stopped watching anime altogether.

People with unlimited cash to spend on anime DVDs (and there seem to be a hell of a lot of them on these forums) never seem to be able to grasp this point. A $20 entertainment purchase is a big deal for me, and with the economy tanking, it's getting bigger all the time. I just don't have the kind of income that lets me spend hundreds of bucks just to sample shows that 90% of the time are going to be crap in the first place.

So yeah, I download shows, and I won't apologize for it. Only the ones I consider really good get my money.
>>
Lawl, 200+ posts of amerikkan retards arguing that copyright infringement == stealing.

I'd rather spend my money elsewhere, moralfags will keep animu industry afloat somehow.



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