Thoughts on this film? I just watched it (I know I know, >slowpoke) after marathoning the original show and previous films. I thought it was really disappointing after the first two Rebuilds given how much promise they showed in retelling the story of the first Eva in a much more coherent and "balanced" manner (all the mind-tripping with less of the thoughtless cynicism).
But I figure whatever I think opinions are fairly polarized, so I'll just open it to you guys.
Has some great moments, but overall doesn't leave you with a good taste.
Came out the same year as TDKR and Prometheus, it was just a cursed year.
I've never seen the rebuilds, I'm waiting for 4.0 to come out and then I'm planning on watching them all for better or worse. From what iv'e seen around here though everyone though it sucked.
>From what iv'e seen around here though everyone though it sucked.
Yeah that was my impression too. I don't think its entirely deserving of all the hate it gets, but there is some serious problems in the plot and lowers my hopes for 4.0. I think what annoyed me most was how almost everything that Shinji and the others had fought for was rendered moot after the timeskip and basically undid all the work and build-up that 1.0 and 2.0 had established.
The first 20 minutes were a huge mess especially, and it felt really out of character for Misato, Asuka, et. al to just give Shinji the cold shoulder and keep him in the dark, especialy Misato who should have known better than anyone how disastrous that could be.
Rebuilds were ok at best from the very beginning. But 3.0 took shittiness to whole new levels.
I'm confused by what you mean in 'thoughtless cynicism'
The original 26 episode run+EoE felt extremely pessimistic about the human condition and people's capacity to make their own way in the world. The way almost all of the principle cast eventually breaks down and retreats into their own little bubbles of despair (Asuka after being mind-raped, Misato after losing Kaji, Shinji after losing Rei, Ritsuko after being betrayed by Geno) and never letting anyone else console them or heal seemed extremely punitive on the part of Anno and the writers. Essentially the message at the end seemed to be "man is destined for suffering, you can never know what other individuals truly are on the inside, lets all hug and turn into tang". In the Rebuild films at least Shinji seemed to be fighting for something-he was fighting for himself, but also for Rei. The characters were still essentially broken and miserable, but there seemed to be hope for them now and the promise of the chance for a better future.
In You Can (Not) Redo practically everyone is dead and Shinji has failed to save Rei, so its like we got pushed all the way back to square 1 where everything is hopeless and there's nothing worth fighting for anymore since 3rd Impact has already occurred.
I hope I'm making sense here.
>In You Can (Not) Redo practically everyone is dead and Shinji has failed to save Rei, so its like we got pushed all the way back to square 1 where everything is hopeless and there's nothing worth fighting for anymore since 3rd Impact has already occurred.
Agreed,the whole 3.0 movie felt like a blatant and very clumsy attempt to return to the status quo from the series
If you are a yaoi fangirl you will enjoy this movie.
Also, if you plan on running an adeva campaign, 3.0 is a good list of things you shouldn't do, as a gm or as a player.
Looks okay but it's really a shitty movie that's more style than substance.
It's the worst thing that could happen to Rebuild, because it really is just some of the writers clearly having a field day with indulging themselves into their own fetishes.
You know, instead of writing good characters and developments.
With all the talk about Kawoshin and this movie it made it sound like it would be nothing but hardcore gay sex between the two of them. I was almost disappointed Gainax didn't push it further just to troll the fans harder when Kaworu gets the Scanners treatment.
>note to all players who are considering designing a dual-plug eva for them and their friend to co-pilot together
What do you mean troll the fans, a lot of the fans want Kawoshin.
>I hope I'm making sense here.
You made plenty of sense. Your interpretation matches up with mine quite a lot. Especially this sentence.
> man is destined for suffering, you can never know what other individuals truly are on the inside
That's the human condition, and the cost of having individual identity. And it's why I think Instrumentality is a beautifully profound idea, because it strives to cure us of the human condition. Even if EoE ended with Shinji accepting Instrumentality and humanity ending up one big hivemind of tang, I wouldn't accuse Eva of being thoughtlessly cynical. It's an observation of a problem in life and a proposed solution to it.
What you didn't mention is Shinji's rejection of Instrumentality. By breaking down the barriers that separate human souls, people lose their individual identity. So even if they can no longer feel the pain of being human, they can't feel the joys of being human either. In curing themselves of the human condition, humanity robbed itself of its own identity! That's why Shinji rejected instrumentality, because he felt that in it, he wasn't 'alive at all'. He's okay with restoring everyone's A.T. fields and dooming them to suffering because even if they'll eventually hurt each other, at least they'll give each other joy also.
That's the hedgehog's dilemma, and the human condition! For me, the message at the end was
"man is destined for suffering, you can never know what other individuals truly are inside. But life is still worth living, and people are still worth loving, because the joy they bring to you is real, and make you who you are". That's what it means to be human.
Continuing off of this, the overall ending message of Eva isn't terribly complex or groundbreaking. In fact, it's a conclusion most people manage to come to by the time they've graduated high school. But that's the point. Eva is considered by some to be a coming of age story because it details Shinji's journey in reaching this conclusion and consequently growing as a person. The suffering, and the joys in his life are equally important to the message, because it's a struggle to realize that suffering and rejoicing are simultaneously integral parts of life. So again, I disagree that the original series was a fundamentally cynical work.
I could write for hours about why I don't like the rebuilds much (well, mainly 2.0 because everyone agrees that 3.0 is shit and it's hard to criticize 1.0 outside of being a slimmed down carbon copy of episodes 1-6 of NGE) but it concerns things outside of the present discussion.
I don't hate the film totally, but it could have been so much more. Shock value just isn't enough to carry it. I would have liked more backstory because a timeskip for no reason seems really lazy. The lack of time spent with Wille is unfortunate because it introduces many new characters as well as having characters from previous films who really need more screentime and characterisation. Not to mention the characters on Nerv's side. The most baffling thing to me is Kaworu's character though. His scenes felt tacked on and not right for the atmosphere.For being his big debut as a main character they really didn't give him any sort of proper introduction or characterisation. He just appears, is obsessed for Shinji for no given reason and dies with some cryptic lines in the same damn film. I knew it was coming, but they didn't try to make me care about him as a character at all. I'd rather have seen his screentime taken by Wille and nerv peeps.
The way the film handles things feels really juvenile. It berates Shinji for not changing/growng up despite the fact that he was in a coma for 14 years apparently? How the fuck would he change? He literally acted like he just came from 2.22. It really makes me scratch my head. Then at the end Mari tells him to go out and "see the world" iirc. What the fuck kind of advice is that for such a time? He nearly caused an apocalypse and the world is kind of fucked up now. The film is hilarious, but unintentionally so.
It's not trying to do any of the things you expect it to do. It's juvenile not because of that, because of the reasons it is that way.
It's an otaku film, a selfish expression of desires in the Evangelion universe - it's comparable to fanfiction, only official.
You say Kaworu's scenes are tacked on, but that's missing the point - Kaworu is in this movie supposed to be the same Kaworu as in NGE, as if sent through time and space driven by his undying love for Shinji. Sounds romantic right? That's the idea behind it. If you don't care for Kaworu already, or if you if you at all have an interest to be "convinced" by the movies or art you consume, you won't like Kaworu. The attraction is the same-sex relationship which the movie focuses on, and if you don't have an interest in that, you're not likely to care even a smidge.
For the same reasons Shinji needs to be shamed and berated along with Rei, both so Kaworu's relationship with Shinji can make the most possible sense (perfect being loving the imperfect) and so that Rei can be written out of the equation. It is completely necessary to undo everything 2.22 and 1.11 had done as far as characters are concerned, and on the whole, what NGE achieved.
Similarly, Asuka is rewritten to be more likable, stronger and capable than her original version.
>it's comparable to fanfiction, only official.
This is spot on. They tried to throw in something for every part of the fanbase. How well it panned out is debatable.
She tells him to "get to know something about the world" not to "go out and see the world'. What she is talking about here is the fact that Shinji is just a puppet at the hands of others.
>They tried to throw in something for every part of the fanbase. How well it panned out is debatable.
Not exactly. Not every part of the fanbase, for some they threw something out instead, because that's good for another part of the fanbase.
Think politics, and think fans. If you read an Asuka fanfic, chances are that other characters will be hilariously misrepresented to the point where you can feel the writers hatred for them. The same is true for other character fanfics, only very few manage to be balanced.
This is because it's easier to make something look bad than it is for something to look good.
You're pretty much talking out your ass.
You're pretty much talking out your ass.
The 14 year time-skip felt really poorly handled, almost like a cheap device to make the film as inscrutable as possible. But outside all of the completely bewildering plot holes (what happened to everyone? Why is everything red? How the fuck did Misato cobble together an entire fleet of battleships and a gigantic flying sperm?) what confuses me is why they decided to undo practically all of the progress made in the character arcs established at the beginning. I mean its like /everyone/ is right back to where they started: Shinji is lonely, hopeless, and confused, Asuka is an attention-starved bitch, Rei is an emotionless plot-device. What has been accomplished by the time we get to the end credits?
Also, how the hell are Gendo and Fuyutski running NERV? Are they the only staff left? Is it all automated now? Does Gendo make Kozo clean the bathrooms and sweep the floors now or what.
Thanks for the wonderful and insightful reply. I'm sure you spent a lot of time crafting it.
>it's comparable to fanfiction, only official.
Nobody knows what fanfiction really is these days.
All those questions are fully pointless. Things just happen and it's Shinji getting mentally fucked that's the highlight of the film. That's it, the point of it is to pander and achieve that at the same time. If you get caught up in those questions that don't mean anything, you've lost.
There is no "how Misato got a fleet", the timeskip means they don't have to explain it.
>Similarly, Asuka is rewritten to be more likable
I prefer Soryu, and that's saying something. Shikinami was barely even in the film and certainly didn't display any likeable qualities.
>Kaworu is in this movie supposed to be the same Kaworu as in NGE, as if sent through time and space driven by his undying love for Shinji.
Wait, what? They didn't even explain why he "loves" Shinji in NGE so much. God this shit is dumb.
Pretty sure that's what the subs I had said, might be a mistranslation but it doesn't change the fact the film treats Shinji quite stupidly.
Saying something is fanfction=I just don't like it
You are missing Eva's point, by the end of EoE we are given the message that even if getting close to others hurts us, its worth it for the chance for happiness. And that as long as we are alive we will always have the chance to be happy.
Same thing with comparing Anno to George Lucas.
You preferring Soryu doesn't mean anything, waifufaggotry isn't taken seriously here. Objectively, Asuka is portrayed as more likable and capable independently of you preferring soryu.
I agree with everything you stated. In regards to the characters, they are all essentially new ones now, save for Shinji and all very weak. I do not give a single fuck about any of them, nor the world.
This is not the sort of feeling people should have on the penultimate film.
Nobody cares about what you think.
>Asuka is portrayed as more likable
She's not. And this is fact. What does Shikinami do in this film that is likeable? Kick Shinji? Try to kill him? Call him a brat?
There is no "dance like you want to win" here. She is just angry and that's the extent of her character. How is it likeable?
It's fucking terrible and everybody that likes it is either fucking retarded or trying to get responses.
>almost like a cheap device to make the film as inscrutable as possible
Why do you say "almost" ?
Fictional stories made by fans, unofficial - that's what I mean by it in the post.
It fits here because the writers are to some degree, fans of what they've made. I wouldn't ever call Rebuild fanfiction, because it isn't, please note that.
>I prefer Soryu, and that's saying something.
It says nothing but you attempting to make a vague-counterclaim due to your pre-existing fandom for the original. What you prefer or don't means nothing, and if we need to account for preference then if we look at everyone (not just you), Shikinami > Soryu.
The truth is that the movies starting from 2.0 does portray her as more likable. She tries to do something nice for others, and she's capable of realizing her own mistakes - something Soryu could not. This means she is being without any question portrayed as more likable. Then she's also more stronger and capable because she doesn't fail like Soryu did.
>Wait, what? They didn't even explain why he "loves" Shinji in NGE so much. God this shit is dumb.
EVA misses out on explaining a lot of things, but in this case it's not necessary because it's Shinji that needs to hear that someone loves him. I think Kaworu loves him just because he sees some fragility in him. Why him and noone else? There is no explanation like you said, it's a plot device to achieve something. There's no real character behind it.
The selling point is the romance of it, but it's not the point of the relationship in NGE.
>Fictional stories made by fans, unofficial - that's what I mean by it in the post.
That doesn't make any sense since they're people who had a hand in the creation of the damn things not fans of the work given the directors chair.
Forgetting about 2.0 are we? She's more likable there.
In 3.0, she's also more likable even if she kicks Shinji. She kicked Shinji in NGE too, and badtalked him whenever she got the chance.
>How is it likeable?
Because anime fans, and Asuka fans in general are incredibly shallow people that prefer appearance and superficial things over actual character. You shouldn't be surprised that Asukafags see Shikinami and don't think of a difference other than what they can point out, for all intents and purposes they're the same character except Shikinami is cooler and has more superpowers.
I'm going to chalk this down to poor reading comprehension on your part. Try reading it again from the beginning.
>Because anime fans, and Asuka fans in general are incredibly shallow people that prefer appearance and superficial things over actual character
You can say that about every waifufag
I wouldn't have a problem with those questions going unanswered if they weren't such a dramatic juxtaposition from where we last saw the world of Eva. I mean asking "why does Gendo have dorky glasses now| is pointless. Asking "where the hell did this gigantic flying ship come from completely out of the blue" doesn't seem like a frivolous inquiry. I wanna know, its a valid question and the magnitude of its importance to the plot and its relation to the Evas makes the lack of any real explanation feel like a cop-out.
No, you're just a retard who has no idea what you're talking about. The fact that your posts fails on all levels to actually explains shit proves it.
And I don't care about what you think, what a coincidence.
Anon, you're retarded. I'm going to be carrying out conversations with the rest while you flail around not understanding anything. Bye.
>I mean asking "why does Gendo have dorky glasses now| is pointless. Asking "where the hell did this gigantic flying ship come from completely out of the blue" doesn't seem like a frivolous inquiry.
Why is any of that shit important? Eva has been doing that shit since the TV series, shit inserted in that had no meaning because Anno thought it looked cool, fantards like yourself read too deeply into shit which is why you're so ass devastated.
Asuka fans in particular if we're using the current scenario with Rebuild seeing what they want.
Humor me, what did you not like about Rebuild 2? I personally liked the direction it took the story, but felt that its good qualities were marred by the gratuitous fanservice and pointless inclusion of Mari.
>Makes a stupid statement
>Gets called out for it
>LOL YOU'RE JUST RETARDED I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU ANYNIRE BLAH BLAH BLAH
It is a valid question, but it's not trying to answer anything. It is a failing on part of the people who write Rebuild in this situation, as the value of it is that there's something new but without depth.
Don't listen to this guy: >>101352106
He's a moron.
And the irony of course given how unimportant she was in the TV series. She was always the fanservice character.
Seconding this: >>101352145
The only one who got called out was you.
>It is a valid question,
It's not, it's like asking why Eva-01 is purple, who's no barring to the plot and is not really important.
>Forgetting about 2.0 are we? She's more likable there.
This is a thread on 3.0, which is why I didn't talk about that. Yes, she was.
>In 3.0, she's also more likable even if she kicks Shinji.
3.0 Asuka can be called "cool", "badass" etc, but she is in no way likeable. Or relate-able. Even if she kicked Shinji in NGE, she also had kinder moments and times where she was somewhat admirable in her determination and bravery. She wasn't just an angry german bitch. In 3.0 she is just violent and angry.
That's simply not true. Asuka was very important not only as a stand-alone character, but as a foil to Shinji. She was also "the fanservice character" in whatever extent Evangelion has fanservice characters.
>waifufaggotry isn't taken seriously here.
Did you just come to /a/ for the first time yesterday?
Rating it as a film in general, it's bad.
Rating it as Anno's revenge on his fanbase, it's fantastic.
Asukafags are almost delusional as Reifags
>They tried to throw in something for every part of the fanbase
No they didn't.
There was nothing for Rei fans whatsoever, and they're a sizable chunk of the fanbase. In fact, the film seemed perfectly crafted to be something they'd hate.
I say this as a huge fan of 2.0 (it's in like my top 10 films ever), but there's a lot to dislike about it. Mostly that it's shallow and the CG is really bad at times.
It is. It's pretty important, we did get an episode of how Nerv came into being late in the series, which I expect in this film. This film has a lot of new shit out the wazoo and no explanation.
Just like EoE
>It is. It's pretty important, we did get an episode of how Nerv came into being late in the serie
No we didn't. Stop lying out your ass.
But EoE was pretty damn good.
>3.0 Asuka can be called "cool", "badass" etc, but she is in no way likeable.
You now realize "cool" and "badass" is enough for an anime character (or even real person) to be likable. Asuka in NGE is a bitch but people still like the character. Same thing with Rebuild.
Anime is not real life. It's why people can love outright assholes in Seinfeld and Jersey Shore, but hate them with every fiber of their being in real life. Anime and fiction in general is a safe thing where you can freely enjoy bitches and whores without actually getting mad or upset at them being bitches and whores.
The kind moments are more often there for Shikinami than the original.
There, you have your answer. Fans are more than content to accept the superficial Asuka and use the power of moe to imagine that "she's had a hard life" and excuse her of all her bitchiness.
That's exactly what happened with the original Asuka and her fans too - excusing what is terrible behavior on the basis that she's had a difficult time.
The clincher is that both fans do it because she's cute and nothing more. If she were ugly, she'd be universally reviled.
Cool bullshit bro, the only Eva we got to see where its color scheme came from was 02.
Yeah, I'm not going to take that comment on equalizing a paintjob with the foundations for the entire plot of the story seriously.
Expect no reply for me, and I pity the fool that bothers replying to you.
>Asuka in NGE is a bitch but people still like the character.
People like Asuka?
What is wrong with the post? Asuka is not a terrible person all the time and there is more to her than angry little girl.
I see this argument used pretty often on /a/ but I have mostly read post who think that Sohryu is by far the better character , which is in my opinion true.
But on the question of likeability you are probably right since Shikinami doesn't seem to have Sohryu's unpleasant past
I think 2.0 failed pretty bad at characterization and man couldn't they have made it clear that Mari wasn't going to lust for Shinji? I think that people would have reacted better to her addition if it looked like she wasn't going to be an addition to his harem.
Don't respond to him. He has autism.
>Yeah, I'm not going to take that comment on equalizing a paintjob with the foundations for the entire plot of the story seriously.
Gendo's new glasses and The Winder has no foundations of the plot other than being set pieces for the action to unfold
I liked Mari.
>I see this argument used pretty often on /a/ but I have mostly read post who think that Sohryu is by far the better character
This is a joke right?
Uh, guy? I think you need to watch the show.
Soryu is the better character, along with every other original NGE character. That's not what we're discussing here. It's a given. Mentioning it makes no sense.
>likeability is based on a person's past
You're an Asuka fan aren't you? See >>101352113
which was mean but nails it.
What the fuck are you even talking about
> but I have mostly read post who think that Sohryu is by far the better character
People are indifferent to Sohryu or hate her and only demented Asuka fags seems to actually give a shit about the difference between the two.
> along with every other original NGE character
What's interesting is that this is true even of Mari.
thats the point at least I don't like streamlined characters with cooking contest for Shinji's dick
Where does it say that Eva-01 got it;s color? That's the episode that explains how it was created you fucking idiot.
Don't take >>101352971
seriously. /a/ regulars think it's either an autist, or a bot that replies with a set of stock posts based on a few keywords.
Sohryu is the better character naturally, but like you suspect that's not what we're talking about - the matter of likeability. The past has nothing to do with it, it's how the presentation is.
Asuka fans and anime fans in general seem to prefer the tsundere Asuka that they are given, hence why the response to it is very positive.
are you implying there aren't major differences between the two?
>I see this argument used pretty often on /a/ but I have mostly read post who think that Sohryu is by far the better character
Cool lie bro
>more/less likable than Soryu
That all leads down to opinions, not facts.
Even if they did try to write her off as a more likable character, it's the viewer's stance on her that counts.
The only thing that really hasn't changed is that Asuka is still a bitch. Many people have never liked her for that reason in the first place.
Shikinami is more likable and more relevant. Whether you think either is a better character is irrelevant.
> I don't like streamlined characters with cooking contest for Shinji's dick
Imagining a timeline where the dinner party wasn't cancelled and everyone came as planned is pretty hilarious when you consider it would have essentially been 3 girls vying for Shinji's attention while Gendo just stares in the background.
>thats the point at least I don't like streamlined characters with cooking contest for Shinji's dick
I think that's your problem more than the characters. You've deluded yourself into thinking there is some kind of contest, since that's your own focus. It's what you want, so you see it.
Does Rei see a contest when she decides to cook for Shinji? Misato explains it, she's planning to bring together Shinji and Gendo, to mend their troubled relationship.
What kind of fan sees a cooking contest? Insecure ones. Who sees a "contest" in the anime? There you go. Those people are the problem.
>That all leads down to opinions, not facts.
The same can be said about people who think Sohyru is a better character.
You greentexted the part where I said there was an explanation for Nerv late in the series, implying there was not. I corrected you.
No where in my post did I say I cared about Eva colours.
What are you even on about.
I don't think Misato wanted his dick that badly.
Yep, that's also true.
Evafags logic is that a character has to be unlikable and have ISSUES in order to be good characters, forget about actual writing involved or how strong they are.
I think Mari is one of the characters that suffered the most with the pacing problems and short screen time of the movie, she needed those scenes that showed her scheming and home-life.
Misato and Asuka lost more due to the timing, but Mari, being the new character, suffered more from the effects of it.
It's a fact based on statistics, since Shikinami > Asuka in popularity.
>Even if they did try to write her off as a more likable character, it's the viewer's stance on her that counts.
You can cut off the viewers stance and just coldly, and objectively analyze the writing of the character.
To be honest I am NOT enjoying the denial your are showing me in your posts.
likeability is always based on what the viewer likes or with what he can sympathize
There was no competition. Asuka had a crush, but she got over it fast and gave up. Rei just wanted to help Shinji and Gendo get along because Shinji makes he happy and cooks for them all the time. There was no romance here. They are teenagers, I don't see the issue with some socialization.
The fact is that in Shikinami's screentime, she is ridden completely of the failings Sohryu had and portrayed as a character more easy to sympathize with.
It's perfect for asuka fans to project the backstory they love so much onto the character while dancing the same dance, and for newcomers to adore the strong redheaded girl. The 14-year old timeskip allows for it.
She is more likable, and it shows: Asuka is now the #1 popular EVA girl in the current fanbase. Could it be the massive otaku tsundere trend? Perhaps.
you don't seem to realize what an oversimplification is
Can you offer an actual argument to the people who bothered to respond to your lazy posts.
>likeability is always based on what the viewer likes or with what he can sympathize
Which is, when we refer to a group, conforms to a general idea of a likable character, which Shikinami follows. EOD.
>I don't see the issue with some socialization.
Anime fans do, because if Rei socializes with Shinji, it means Shinji might come to like her when Shinji should like their favorite character instead.
I'd agree with that. Really 2.0 wasted way too much time on trying to set up the whole Asuka, Rei, and Shinji dynamic. Even if the plan wasn't to throw it all away with 3.0 we don't need Iron Chef Red vs Blue edition to figure out what's going on.
On a side note dub Mari is massively superior to sub Mari.
And if the viewer can't sympathize with the character regardless of likability than it's pretty much a failure. I character being a bitch and having issues doesn't automatically make her well written, flaws are just superfluous it's how the show builds on them is what counts. .
Go home to evageeks. You can post things like there and people won't comment on it or call you out because they share the same agenda.
>we don't need Iron Chef Red vs Blue edition to figure out what's going on.
See above - there never was such a thing. When you rely on buzzwords and funny rhetoric to make a statement, it's easily put down. There was no Iron Chef EVA edition.
we need an infograph on what is confirmed in rebuild.
for example are soul-powered evas confirmed?
the two "lores" kinda blend into each other not only with Asuka but also is Rei still Lilith? shame on me if it was stated in Rebuild
Yeah man it's not like Eva TV can EVER be accused of not explaining shit and leaving shit up to the viewers to fanwank.
None of it stated, where Rei said the EVA's have souls, she now said that they are a mirror of your heart.
The lores don't blend, they are two productions. But because of laziness and the desire to change reality in the fandom, they've opted to have a half-merge where they can freely retcon what they want.
You can't seriously expect them not to show character interaction between the main cast.
>But because of laziness and the desire to change reality in the fandom, they've opted to have a half-merge where they can freely retcon what they want.
God bless Anno
An interesting contrast is how the uber-moe Rei Q is shunned by the Rei fanbase almost entirely.
>rely on buzzwords
It's called a joke, don't be autistic on purpose. They wasted way too much screen time on basically meaningless scenes when they were already strapped for time.
The actual interaction is small compared to the filler surrounding it.
>The lores don't blend, they are two productions.
that is clear but if you think about it you mostly end up thinking something unconfirmed works like it worked in the TV-Series
And there's the fact that Mari is a useless character through and through.
It's not a joke when you post it in a serious context, and it's not wasted time either because it adds to multiple characters. No, you don't get to excuse away your bad posting by saying it's a joke.
When you look at 2.0, it does establish several characters and develop some. There's nothing wrong with that, even if 3.0 intends to throw it away.
Reminder, that if 2.0 hadn't "wasted time" on characters (spending time on characters in EVA, why I never....!), 3.0's shock of throwing them away wouldn't be a shock.
If you wanted deeper, more meaningful and complex characters, your problem is 100% with the movie that makes that not achievable - 3.0.
Only watched it for best girl Kaworu
I've always wondered what Misato's true feelings were for Shinji. I don't think she ever wanted to outright jump his bones, but I have to wonder about that joke she makes over the phone to Ritsuko in EP 2. Well that and the kiss in EoE, but that could have meant anything.
Do you think she used her tongue?
She wasn't useless in 2.0, in 3.0 however, she's merely a sidekick.
>a serious context
well she brought us the BEAST MODE and could simply pilot unit-02 pretty much confirming that there are no souls anymore
I think 3.0 is a great blockbuster action movie but it's not a dumb action movie. The paradox of this movie is that it's stand-alone but it also requires knowledge of Evangelion series. It's sort of like a sequel but not really. This feeling is emphasized by constantly referencing the original series. Everyone knows how the original was referenced in 1.11 and 2.22 (red water, an outline of MP Eva, a splatter of blood on the moon, etc) but 3.33 has its own share of references to the original and this time they're a little bit more subtle.
The movie starts with an operation to retrieve Eva-01 from space and as you remember in EoE the last time we see Eva-01 is when it went to space. Then there's 14 year time skip which is kinda close to the time gap between the release of EoE and 3.0. Lastly there's a Giant Rei head and Giant Rei is of course one of the most iconic things from EoE.
Why does it need to reference the original? Well, it's not only to play on fans' nostalgia or to spite you. Deep inside this movie is about the relationship between the original series and Rebuild series. But the good thing about 3.0 is that it's not stuck up in its ass. On the outside it provides a good story about a kid who messed up, tries to fix his mistake but because of his own selfishness only makes everything worse. Sure, sometimes it's written a little bit too convenient but what's important here is the message, it's closer to fairy tale than any other type of story.
The relationship between the original and Rebuild is best shown in Rei Q subplot. Rei Q is Rei but not really Rei. It's a paradox. Should she be like Rei? Should she do things like Ayanami did? Well, at the end the movie provides the answer and it's no. You can (not) redo references not only the struggle of Shinji to fix his mistake but Rebuild series itself. You can't repeat the success of the original and you can't go back and fix what was wrong with the original.
Or something like that.
I actually think the contrary, she wasn't well fit in 2.0 but on 3.0 she worked better and felt more like part of the cast. Having her as an Asuka focused character gave her some credibility, on my opinion.
That's absolutely retarded and I want you to think that through.
>The paradox of this movie is that it's stand-alone but it also requires knowledge of Evangelion series.
That's not a paradox, it means it's not a stand-alone movie.
Whole argument disregarded.
Gendo Mari is the best part of these early drafts.
This is even more disturbing when you consider that she bled into his mouth as she was dying. And given the series fascination with mother figures and menstruation metaphors...
I like these designs far more than the final one we got.
I agree with you. Mari was actually better in 3.0. She wasn't an important character, she was just Asuka's buddy and their buddy cop dynamic was pretty nice. That's a helluva lot better than her fanfic tier introduction in 2.0.
This is just your dislike for Mari rather than you evaluating the character. Get the fuck out.
Why? Her personality shows up more when contrasted to Asuka's attitude, a great deal of Mari's popularity comes from her moments in 3.0, meanwhile most of the criticism comes from 2.0 scenes.
>Why? Her personality shows up more when contrasted to Asuka's attitude
False, since they hardly have any revealing moments and they only redo what 2.0 did.
>a great deal of Mari's popularity comes from her moments in 3.0, meanwhile most of the criticism comes from 2.0 scenes.
Holy fuck, I knew it you have no idea. Mari is LESS popular with 3.0.
You're just another dumb Asukafag mad at Mari and 2.0.
This doesn't add up. Mari is unimportant and adds virtually nothing but being side decor, and that makes her better? I'm going with this: >>101355408
Mari's most popular time was with 2.0, not 3.0.
You might criticize her in 2.0 since you might have problems with her stealing your waifus screentime, but all you're saying is that there is nothing to criticize in 3.0 - literally. That is because there is nothing Mari says or does that really adds to the character beyond her repeating the routine she did in 2.0, just much, much less of it.
It's a stand-alone movie in Rebuild series but you need to watch the original. It doesn't really work as a continuation of 1.0 and 2.0 but it's also not really a sequel to the original.
>buddy cop dynamic
Do you people just write words for the sake of writing them?
Well, they're not cops but they have a similar buddy dynamic.
In other words, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
Stand alone movie? No, it's part three of four.
Secondly, it requires knowledge from another work to make sense, literally according to Anno since he's on record having told the voice actors that Kaworu is literally the same.
3.0 can not work as anything else but a continuation of 1.0 and 2.0, you can argue it's a bad continuation but it's an undeniable continuation whether you like or not.
Like, what, exactly? What's similar?
Hint: absolutely fucking nothing that can't be said for the rest of the children
also:You are demonstrating the power of moe. You think a buddy cop dynamic is cool, so you totally just fanwanked that in there and actually believed it yourself. holy fuck anime fandom is doomed and it's no wonder anno doesn't try making good characters, it's like pearls for swine
This anon is right, it isn't some romantic comedy cooking contest. Anno wants us to think it's some cooking contest between two girls vying for Shinji's dick, but it really isn't, but we're lead to think that it is because some of the characters themselves (like Asuka, Misato, Kensuke' etc) are misinterpreting it such.
Rei just wants to return the favor to Shinji by bringing him closer to his father through a home-cooked meal. What Shinji and Rei have between them in Rebuild is more of a family-sibling bond than anything else.
> Anno wants us to think it's some cooking contest between two girls vying for Shinji's dick, but it really isn't, but we're lead to think that it is because some of the characters themselves (like Asuka, Misato, Kensuke' etc) are misinterpreting it such.
You aren't led to believe anything. You're actively deluding yourself because of your own personal preferences. Even now you're thinking it's a family-sibling bond when it's not even that. Rei likes Shinji and wants to do something for him, no sibling stuff implied whatsoever.
You need it to be either romantic or "j-just f-family g-guyse, dont worry" for it to fit a framework of shipping and other cancer.
That's literally all there is to the buddy cop dynamic.
It can't work as a continuation. Why is Eva in space? Why is Giant Rei head there? Why is the world destroyed? Because it's connected to the series on a different level than just plot.
It's not a sequel but in a way it is because it's made after. That is paradox. Something is and isn't at the same time. Just like Rei Q is the Rei and isn't the Rei.
It is a continuation and it does work because all of those questions are invalidated by the fact that there is a timeskip.
There is a continuation as it has direct references and even flasbacks.
Stop being fucking wrong.
Somebody fucking understands this shit.
Rei wanted to cook for Shinji because he makes her happy, and she wants him to feel the same way. It's not romantic, not a family thing, it's just somebody doing something sweet and kind for somebody else.
True, it may not even be a familial relationship. Let's agree Shinji and Rei have a very close 'undefined' bond and nothing more.
Don't ever talk about the sacred buddy cop dynamic again. Get out.
I am fucking disgusted by you.
>it provides a good story
No it fucking doesn't are you high
You're right another reason for the time skip is to emphasize the stand-aloneness.
>implying I'm an Asukafag.
I really do think Mari was more interesting to watch in 3.0 than on 2.0, of course I fully expect she to be more than a sidekick on 4.0, but I think that her dynamics with Asuka were really interesting for both characters and her exposition/knowledge felt more natural and impacting for the plot.
Eva needs a lot less action and fucking robots fighting and a lot more character development.
3.33 is constant robot fighting robots bullshit and some gay as fuck piano scenes mixed in.
Stop being so angry. Geez.
You can't still be mad that they aren't making Rush Hour 4. It's been years man, just let it go.
It only had two big action sequences at the beginning an the end.
I don't think the Rei Q situation can really be compared to the Soryu/Shikinami thing.
Q is- well, she's basically a parody of Rei. Meanwhile Soryu and Shikinami are the same at their core.
That's how it is. You can however say Shinji feels his mother in Rei, there's precedence for that. The cooking thing however, no.
Exactly, and while we do not see the exact reason, you can suspect love - which isn't unnatural for young people, and I'm not thinking "get into his pants" love, I'm thinking "wow he sure is nice I wanna as nice to him as he is to me", which is basically what Rei says anyway.
You know, "and they called it, puppy looooove"....
It's definitely love, there's no doubt about it. But exactly like you say, love doesn't mean "I wan 2 fuk", nor does it imply a family link.
She's moe? She's like a creepy doll thing.
...and Shikinami isn't? You'll have Asukafags fight you to the death over this:
>Meanwhile Soryu and Shikinami are the same at their core.
Both are reduced to oversimplified parodies of themselves, that of which both stand accused of being negatively.
I disagree. The Shikinami problem is a result of a lack of backstory, whereas Q is very very clearly put across as "not Rei". That is her entire character.
That's moe for you. There's an entire franchise based around small creepy dolls.
Rei Q is super-moe, she's naive, cute, doesn't understand simple things, she is the epitome of moe - you want to protect her because of her weakness and cuteness.
They definitely love each other, we just don't know what kind of love they feel for each other yet. It hasn't been properly defined or answered.
No, she's JUST fucking creepy. I don't see how you can find her cute.
The same is true for Shikinami, she is very clearly not Asuka, except for a specialized version much like Rei Q is.
Proof: This is the original Asuka at this point in time.
Didn't know Asuka posted on /a/.
I guess everything is moe.
It will never be defined or answered either, since it's not in many people's interest to do so.
You have issues man. She's adorable.
How's that proof?
My point is, Rei Q is VERY FUCKING SPECIFICALLY presented as not being Rei, she does not take Rei's place in the story at all.
Shikinami, meanwhile, takes Asuka's place in the story and her core personality traits remain intact. Almost every difference between the two comes from the lack of screentime given to Shikinami, making her appear more shallow in Rebuild.
You have issues, she's a goddamn walking corpse. Just because some creeps find something cute doesn't make it moe. There's no such thing as lawnmower moe even though some creepy fuck out there thinks they're adorable.
>It will never be defined or answered either, since it's not in many people's interest to do so.
It's a shame since it's one of the most developed and important relationships in Rebuild. Ah well, shitty fanbase is shitty; people gonna misinterpret to fit their own goals.
She didn't try to kill herself in Rebuild because she had Mari instead of Shinji. Everyone would kill themselves if Shinji was the only person they had to talk to.
Rei Q is everything that people who hate Rei want her to be.
On the other hand, Shikinami not only gets all of her weaknesses and trauma from NGE removed, but no she even gets super powers and a moe eye patch to boot.
She isn't creepy, she is helpless and tragic. She is Regular Rei taken to the extreme, or a parody, she doesn't even know what "like" is. She probably can't even read. You have to make up your own backstory for her as she's so shallow. That is "moe".
How is she creepy? She's like a small child. She's cute, pretty too.
Hypothetically, anything can make a person experience moe.
But the common anime-world definition referring to young girls, there's that idea of wanting to protect which is the cliche.
Look at Rei Q, what do you see?
Vulnerability. A pretty face. A sad life. Someone who doesn't mean any harm, but is made to do harm not of her own will. She is pitiable. Clueless. She's in for a rough ride.
Instinctively, if this is creepy to you, then I dare say you have a problem or some problems ethically and morally.
These exact traits should inspire you to shield Rei Q, and it does.
>That is "moe"
No, it's awful writing and a impossible-to-like character.
Any child that acts like Q is fucking braindead.
You have it the other way around, friend.
Rei Q does take Rei's place in the story, since this is where Rei III should have been and not Rei Q.
There is no "Sohryu" in Rebuild. Only the rough superficial traits of Sohryu remain, the personality and inner character is a complete change. The difference isn't from lack of screentime. It's what they show.
Sohryu didn't even once consider that she was the problem. Shikinami does right of the bat.
For fuck's sake...do you even understand why she went suicidal in NGE? Why should I expect a 3.0 shitter to know
I like to think that she went through her fucked-up suicidal breakdowns and identity crisis during the time skip.
She snapped out of it and grew up once she realized that unit 2 was her mother, I mean it wasn't like a bunch of harpies were going to stop her this time around or anything.
Not him but that is pretty much moe. It inspires you to make a backstory or excuse the character, which is all everyone ever does for Rei Q when talking about the character.
Moe and bad character are not mutually exclusive.
No, Rei Q does not take Rei's place. Rei's been there for 2 films, and still exists seperately. Q's just there wasting screentime, budget and Megumi's VA.
>I like to think that she went through her fucked-up suicidal breakdowns and identity crisis during the time skip.
You are fanwanking and a victim of moe.
Notice how she and Rei Q are the same: no real backstory, only the fans can fanwank.
It's interesting to see how fans react and what they expect.
All I'm trying to say is that if Q is moe, then EVERYTHING is fucking moe.
It doesn't inspire fucking anything except the question "WHY DID THEY WRITE THIS FUCKING CHARACTER"
Because she wanted attention. That's why she did such a piss poor job of committing suicide despite being great at everything.
>Vulnerability. A pretty face. A sad life. Someone who doesn't mean any harm, but is made to do harm not of her own will. She is pitiable. Clueless. She's in for a rough ride.
>Instinctively, if this is creepy to you, then I dare say you have a problem or some problems ethically and morally.
This also fits Rei to a T, no offense or anything.
How is Rei Q moe? She's right in the middle of that uncanny valley where she looks human but clearly isn't, with no emotion or expression.
>It doesn't inspire fucking anything except the question "WHY DID THEY WRITE THIS FUCKING CHARACTER"
Congratulations. You are not a victim of "the power of moe" like this guy: >>101357612
>Q's just there wasting screentime, budget and Megumi's VA.
by extension, Rei's screentime and since she is there in place of Rei doing what Rei should have done, replacing Rei.
Not exactly, but close.
Rei isn't clueless but reserved, and is on her own self-sufficient and everything but horribly disfigured emotionally. She's intelligent and will given free reign grow just fine.
Rei Q won't by the looks of things though.
Rei is also unsurprisingly, considered moe. Anyone who does not think Rei is moe, is a total fucking retard and shouldn't comment.
What the hell, I'm not even an Asukafag. Or a moe-lover for that matter.
It's okay to assume that something must've happened to her during the time skip. It's not like she has super-strength and lost an eye from angel contamination or anything.
Something major must have happened to her and she managed to overcome it.
And before anybody fucking tries to say the same of Rei:
>right at the fucking beginning of the series we see her talking to gendo and smiling
But Rei Q comes in to replace Rei, Shikinami is 100% there in Soryu's place and Soryu doesn't exist at all.
I mean, Shikinami and Soryu basically do the same thing in the story, you could swap them around and the basic plot would be exactly the same.
Meanwhile Rei Q has literally none of what makes Rei Rei.
That is moe. Why do you think Yuki Nagato is moe?
Because their deadpan reactions are interesting. It's even it's own genre of humour predating both NGE and Haruhi. Fucking Star Trek did it.
They're moe as fucking fuck, see >>101357461
Nagato is moe because of the things she says and does. Q does not say or do ANYTHING.
It's about personality, and Q has literally 0 of that. Hell, she's a fucking vacuum of personality, she drains the life force and energy from those around her simply by being totally lifeless.
Let me rephrase:
Rei Q does not do what Rei does
Shikinami does what Soryu does
If Soryu took Shikinami's place the plot wouldn't change much.
If Rei took Q's place the plot of the film would've been completely and utterly different.
She doesn't really show any signs of weakness. She has a trouble understanding emotions. She just stands there looking at you with disinterested face. She is not in interested what you're saying if it's not an order.
That's not something you want to protect. Now Ayanami on the other hand gives a better, cuter, response and she is presented in situations where she's in pain.
>It's okay to assume that something must've happened to her during the time skip
It's okay, but you dont' know what, so you fill in the gaps, and presto. You've become invested in something that literally is not there and you've written your own mental fanfiction. That is the moe sucking you in, gap-moe.
The idea that the superficial traits are attractive, so you invest yourself to find out why.
The same is true for Rei Q, why is she like that?
>But Rei Q comes in to replace Rei, Shikinami is 100% there in Soryu's place and Soryu doesn't exist at all.
>I mean, Shikinami and Soryu basically do the same thing in the story, you could swap them around and the basic plot would be exactly the same.
Only because either of them do virtually nothing, they are always unrelated to the plot. Their characters are irrelevant.
Their characters are different however.
>Nagato is moe because of the things she says and does. Q does not say or do ANYTHING.
Nagato is cute when she tries to use a mouse and doesn't get it.
Rei is cute when she doesn't read because she wasn't told to.
It's clueless moe. It's it's own fucking thing.
Rei Q is shit, don't misunderstand, but she is moe.
>Rei Q does not do what Rei does
She does give Shinji the cold treatment just like Rei in NGE did.
>If Soryu took Shikinami's place the plot wouldn't change much.
>If Rei took Q's place the plot of the film would've been completely and utterly different.
Not true, if we have Rei die and introduce Rei III, the same thing happens. Shinji gets sad and mindfucked.
>Rei is cute when she doesn't read because she wasn't told to
That's the exact reason she's not fucking cute at all.
She has the personality of a fucking corpse. I have quite fucking literally seen dead rabbits on the road that are more engaging and human than Q.
>She does give Shinji the cold treatment just like Rei in NGE did.
Yes, and Shikinami is bitchy and rude just like Soryu is.
>She doesn't really show any signs of weakness.
Not understanding is a weakness. Doing everything you're ordered is an weakness, what's stopping anyone from telling her "get on the bed, spread your legs, this is an order" ?
This is extreme weakness, and urges anyone with even a little sense of self-respect to have a moe feeling to protect.
>and is on her own self-sufficient
> and will given free reign grow just fine.
I'd have to disagree.
She relies on eva and nerv to bond with others, she's not self-sufficient because she's tied town to nerv, being the soul of Lilith living in an unstable human clone and all.
In 25-26 of NGE, she admitted that her life was so constricted and controlled that even suicide wasn't an option for her since Gendo would just stick her soul in new cloned body to keep her going.
She's very intelligent despite her antisocial upbringing and tendencies though. That's definitely true.
>She doesn't really show any signs of weakness
I don't know what you've been consuming but I want some.
>She has the personality of a fucking corpse. I have quite fucking literally seen dead rabbits on the road that are more engaging and human than Q.
No you haven't. It's a dead rabbit. Please. I know you're mad Rei Q is a disgrace to everything Rei is, but that doesn't give you the right to lie.
No way, I could see what it had eaten for breakfast.
>Doing everything you're ordered is an weakness, what's stopping anyone from telling her "get on the bed, spread your legs, this is an order" ?
And that's not really moe. That's extremely tragic and creepy. You're basically saying that mindbroken rape victims are also super moe. That's not something you would moe about.
>Yes, and Shikinami is bitchy and rude just like Soryu is.
Yes. Meaning their characters did not affect much.
>I'd have to disagree.
That would be a mistake given your reasoning:
All of those things, being tied to NERV, being tied to the EVA, those are all external factors. Rei is on her own, without those, self-sufficient. She doesn't need those, those need her and Rei has no real choice but to go along with it.
Think about it, you said it: Rei is self-sufficient enough to realize that she's strapped for choice. Her character is shaped and molded by these external factors, but as Rei clearly says, she defines herself not by that alone.
So what was the point of Rei Q anyway? To make people angry?
>You're basically saying that mindbroken rape victims are also super moe.
I didn't say that. Note that Rei Q doesn't have that in her character portfolio, rendering your argument pointless.
But there is that weakness, an undefined weakness of having no sense to do anything. Which is what you moe about, which is what I just did by the way by giving you that example. See? You're already there yourself.
Rei Q is a tool to hamper the good image of Rei while attempting to maintain the illusion that they're writing characters.
In every single perspective Rei Q is a direct downgrade, among everything else said about Rei so far, to the original portrayal of Rei.
It's there both to upset people, and to please people.
Fans are the absolute worst. You'll have Asukafag #1223 clamoring for the death of Rei so the competition can be gone, and they will be pleased.
Pretty sure it's something like that, yeah.
Also so we can relate to Shinji more since he's also pretty disgusted about Rei Q not being the Rei he knew.
In all honesty he probably has
It's not hard to have more than no personality at all
I think she's Anno's way of testing how much the fanbase can take before they give up
>In all honesty he probably has
It's a dead rabbit. You've gotten more of a reply than you deserve.
Why are you justifying a shallow character again?
This is exactly the mindset that lets them get away with being lazy with the characters.
Okay, fine, I can agree that this can be considered a moe point but Ayanami had way more moe points. The main reason why Shinji even got in Eva-01 was to protect Ayanami who at the time was in pain and looked pathetic. And then that poor little girl theme comes back when we see Gendo/Shinji rescue her and she even does what Shinji wants her to do, smile.
Rei Q may have a weakness but it's potential and it wasn't even actualized.
Rei has been shown more, it's not unsurprising.
The whole point is that moe alone is not good. Rei isn't good because she's moe.
Portraying her only as moe is downright offensive.
Rei Q has a very small part in the movie and she wasn't portrayed to evoke moe. Her conversations with Shinji were awkward. Again, she didn't have scenes where she was a poor little girl like Ayanami did. At the end she chooses to act out of her own will after Asuka gave her an idea.
She's a neat little character. She doesn't really deserve this whole comparison and hate for not being Ayanami. Just like 3.0 doesn't She kind of perfectly represents this movie I guess.
>she wasn't portrayed to evoke moe
She's moe. Her portrayal is moe. The awkwardness is moe. All her scenes are poor little girl scenes. ALL of them.
>She doesn't really deserve this whole comparison and hate for not being Ayanami.
You're pretty moe yourself.
Not that anon but it's way more likely that she was portrayed to evoke a sense of wrongness in that it wasn't the Rei Ayanami we knew before.
Not mutually exclusive. I'm saying all Rei Q has going for her is moe.
Wasn't as bad as my grandpa dying but it was still laughably bad.
And fuck Anno for not giving me Gendo and Fuyutski's rock climbing adventures.
All Rei Ayanami has going for her is moe.
The differences between Shikinami and Soryu are the differences between the original series and the Rebuild. In the original, Soryu was a raging emotional bitch, but that extended from and was explained by her back story. The fear of inadequacy, pushing everyone one away, her ambivalent relationship with Shinji, all worked with regards to her characterization.
In Rebuild, we are treated to a very similar character, except without the benefit of the developments that the original Soryu had. Yes Shikinami may in fact be kinder in some regards, but overall she comes of as lacking in bland due to her decrease in characterization. She may be "more likable" due to the her acts of kindness, but her more angry aspects simply come off as wrong due to the lack of character. They tried to remedy this with the laughably bad elevator conversation with Misato, that at least tried to explain some of her personality. The problem being though, that it was basically an infodump of characterization, where they had her monologue about her problems instead of the more subtle way in the tv series.
>Not that anon but it's way more likely that she was portrayed to evoke a sense of wrongness in that it wasn't the Rei Ayanami we knew before.
It's not. See >>101359073
This is the one and only answer. There's no reason for it to be done any other way.
The sense of wrongness is there in NGE and is even more poignant since it is Rei. If it's just another clone, who cares?
Here's a consensus everybody should reach:
REBUILD IS BAD
All wrong. Soryu has nearly nothing of what Shikinami has in 2.0 beyond a first name and the looks plus general attitude.
It's really sad that even Asuka fans can't tell that.
You also miss out on the fact that there is NOTHING more unsubtle than NGE regarding the character monologues, where it's not even a part of the story. It's not even a dialogue that fits anywhere.
Asuka never made the development Shikinami did.
You are correct, sir.
Taking things a bit to personally, I presume? The last character that deserves any "hate" in 3.0 is ReiQ. The hate loaded upon her character is preposterous.
I would pay to see an entire mini-series about Gendo and Fuyutski getting into all kinds of wacky hijinks.
This is indicative of the major problems of the Rebuild series as a whole, they tried to keep the same essences of EVA, but without the longer play time of a series. Anno's attempts to streamline the series to make it more understandable is obvious in 1.0 and 2.0. It gained more simplicity, but at the cost of the good characterization of the series. In a sense, the characters feel more like caricature's of the originals.
Now where things really went of the rails is in 3.0. Anno had intended to make the series more accessible, but seems to have trashed that idea in between 2.0 and 3.0. Now we are treated to characters that are merely a shadow of their originals, but still expected to care about them in the same way. It doesn't help that it was decided to push the main supporting characters into the realm of extreme background characters in order to focus on kaworu and shinji's relationship. In the beginning, Rebuild was merely EVA lite, with the addition of 3.0, it turned into an absolute clusterfuck that at best feels disjointed, and a worst feels like a convoluted mess.
>Taking things a bit to personally, I presume? The last character that deserves any "hate" in 3.0 is ReiQ. The hate loaded upon her character is preposterous.
Why doesn't it? It's a character like any other.
It's not a good character, and it's nothing but a problem all in all. Why wouldn't you hate it? Hating Rei Q is just a part of hating the entire Rebuild thing.
>The hate loaded upon her character is preposterous.
Why? It's fully justified. Why wouldn't you hate a character whose purpose is to deny the quality of another character?
Yes, let's completely ignore an intellectual filling of the work in favor of whining about a perceived disrespect for our favorite character. It's so productive and brings us closer to understanding the author's intent. Let's also insult anyone who tries to seriously analyze it because if I can't see anything in a text then it obviously means it's not there.
That post does a better job at grasping the authors intent.
If the "author" intended to make for intellectual filling, do you think Rei Q would be the result? Since Rei Q doesn't exactly match the description of "intellectual filling", I'm going with the absolutely most likely idea:
Rei Q is there to make Rei overall worse.
Rebuild isn't a new thing, it's a remake of NGE, which did all the other post proposed and more while providing actual intellectual filling.
But factor out the author's intent, that's not the most important thing, the work itself is. Fuck the author's intent, look at what's there.
wow, it's fucking nothing.
You're basically talking about the difference between a TV show and a movie. Yes, in comparison to a TV show a movie should be more streamlined. It simply doesn't have time for lots of characterization. That's not wrong, that's how movies work. That being said, the way how Asuka's character was treated in 2.22 was terrible exactly for the reason you described.
>wow, it's fucking nothing
That's your post. A lot of hot water and nothing of substance.
Let's see you back that one up then. Explain yourself.
I guess you can't then.
It's the only thing that makes sense.
Do you really think Rei Q is there to make for a good character?
Adding Rei Q doesn't improve on Rei. It actually cuts away an important part of Rei's character half-way into the story. We're already operating at a loss here.
What about Rei Q? Is the character itself as strong as the NGE counterpart, which didn't have as much screentime? No, not even that.
Not even just superficially where it's traits are all weaker.
So now you're left with two characters where there should be one.
I know a movie would have to be more streamlined, my main complaint is that it Anno went into the Rebuild series with the intent of streamlining everything, but then decided to scrap that and shit out 3.33, which feels like an attempt to an ambitious film like EOE, but without the solid backup required from a full length series. That's ignoring the problems of the movies plot though.
It's not terrible since it's showing new stuff that presumably continues in the next movie. Which it did, albeit poorly and insincerely.
I don't think so.
On the contrary this is the closest you'll get to the authors intent - disrespect for your favourite character. Anno, Tsurumaki, the whole lot - they don't like Rei and have never uttered a single positive sentence about the character. On the other hand, there's plenty of disrespect being shown, and lots of negativity.
Why are you surprised this shows in the remake?
If he wanted to re-do the series why not just do a new season
>Adding Rebuild doesn't improve on NGE. It actually cuts away an important part of NGE half-way into the story. We're already operating at a loss here.
Again she very interestingly represents Rebuild. Hmm.
>It's not terrible since it's showing new stuff that presumably continues in the next movie. Which it did, albeit poorly and insincerely.
It did it so poorly that I would call it terrible. The elevator scene was the worst.
Because Otsuki (the producer) got scared of Anno alienating the traditional fanbase with the drastic changes he was planning to introduce on 1.0, like having Kaworu since the beginning or centering on Shinji, Kaworu, Rei and Gendo. Otsuki asked for a remade shot-by-shot for not alienating the evafags and Anno is just too washed-up to call him on his bullshit.
Just imagine working under those conditions
No seriously I'd like to hear if just one person thinks Rei Q is there to make for a good character.
Just so I can call him/her retarded.
Don't see what's so terrible about it. Fairly good, Asuka is pretty shit in early NGE too, only gets better later.
I think 1.11 and 2.22 didn't do a good job streamlining elements from the original but 3.33 did. It made the story fully about Shinji and it should've been like that right from the beginning of Rebuild series.
As far as backup goes, it does have a backup. It's the whole Evangelion franchise, the original series and Rebuild. It's a stand-alone movie that works if you know about Evangelion but consider it a different story with familiar characters. Like a fairy tale.
That's a shit opinion that's wrong as well.
The story in NGE isn't just about Shinji, which is why it works. He is the main focus but not the sole focus.
It doesn't streamline, it cuts away.
You invalidate your whole comment by saying that it has NGE as backup, which means it failed at streamlining anything at all. Add in the blatant misuse of words like "stand alone" and logical misconceptions, and I start to wonder why you even bothered to click reply.
This fanbase is filled with morons, plebs and retards.
If you don't see anything terrible about it then I'm sorry but I'm not going to explain you how a summary of a character that happens almost at the end of the movie right before said character is written out of the movie and is presented as an infodump with shameless fanservice is the worst, most pathetic, thing that a writer can put in the script.
>read up on the backstory of evangelion that was cut from the original show which ended up saving it from being every other generic anime
>that was then put into the stories and games
I'm not sure if focusing on Shinji solely is a good idea. As>>101366001
states, part of the reason EVA works so well is because of the character interactions. As for having EVA as a backup, I'm personally not sure how much of the original canon carries over considering how different the characters are and how far away from the original the movies are at this point.
Before being an angry idiot take a note that I'm not talking about NGE although in the very end it's obvious that the whole story was about Shinji and Shinji alone.
It's not a summary, it's the character making a development.
It's not the entire character either, but a new part of it the original Asuka never had and never reached in a sense of development.
But 1.11 and 2.22 are fully about Shinji and his relationships too. Hence the lack of focus on Asuka, Ritsuko, Kaji and the like.
Before making a dumbass-reply take a note that what you wrote is just bullshit.
Shinji is the most important character, but he's not the only one and he's not the sole focus except for the very last episode.
3.0 isn't the last episode. It's the start of the second half. From 50% to 75% of the series completion.
Evangelion had 25 episodes of diverse content which justified Shinji's last episode and made every bit important.
>hur it's very obvious that's all about shinji
Yes it is about Shinji, and if you want to be even more precise it's not about Shinji at all, it's about a type of person. Shinji just represents that person.
Why does this even make sense? Because like >>101366199
also points out, there's a whole context that validates Shinji. Cut away that, and what are you left with? You're left with torturing Shinji for no good reason, which is what 3.0 is. It doesn't prove anything, or make what he does have value. It makes it entirely pointless.
You aren't proposing a streamlining, you're just proposing to cut away bits and pieces of the show until there's nothing of value left but moe, action and style.
What you're proposing is absolutely retarded and I think you're just pretending to have some kind of argument because you're a retarded fantard of x or y in 3.0.
>It's not a summary, it's the character making a development.
Oh, I get it. You're a moron who didn't pay attention through the entire movie because EVERYTHING ABOUT HER CHARACTER WAS SPELLED OUT IN MORE SUBTLE WAYS THAN JUST TELLING YOU OUTRIGHT.
I thought that scene was just insulting my intelligence but I guess it was necessary.
in the end, this is the sad truth of the rebuild films.
The way how they're made they're not. If you cut some things from the original it doesn't mean the whole thing is focusing on Shinji. It means you just mutilated the original.
Here's what you don't get moron:
We can see what a character does. Question is, can the character do that? Original Asuka couldn't, not to save her life. Literally.
Shikinami is not Soryu except for some similar traits.
For Asuka to openly talk about herself, not just her relations with others, to another person, that in itself is the development the original could never make.
You're just butthurt and can't see the portrayal for what it is.
If anyone didn't pay attention, it was you.
You also miss the entire point of it, which is that it enables for even more new developments, and ultimately, new revelations. It's new.
There are two movies in the making, this is the introduction.
If you want to bitch, bitch at 3.0 and eventually 4.0.
It's a sad truth of 2.22.
1.11 and 2.22 both keep the original flow but adds something new to it. New developments here and there, new concepts, characters etc...
All ripe to be taken to the next level of what we expect of Evangelion, while they also focused as Shinji as the clear-cut main character - the focus of the movies.
>1.11 and 2.22 both keep the original flow
That's the problem with them. Stitched together episodes of a TV show don't really work as a movie even if you add and remove some things.
>in the very end
3.0 isn't exactly at the very end, and even episode 25 featured all big-name characters extensively. It's literally only the last episode that goes full-on Shinji.
...which is totally OK because by that point, 25 episodes have passed and the rest of the characters are fleshed out and showcased magnificently.
>don't really work as a movie
Says who? What standards are you using?
Do they apply here, in a 4-part series that tells one story? I say they don't.
For a genuinely stand-alone movie, then yes. Otherwise, no.
The last two episodes the original and the second half of EoE establish that the whole story was about Shinji.
I'm not sure why you're bringing up Rebuild because it does its own thing. It shouldn't be exactly like the original.
>The last two episodes the original and the second half of EoE establish that the whole story was about Shinji.
But the whole story wasn't about Shinji, was it ? Objectively, there are a lot of stories being told in Evangelion. You're wrong on asserting that the whole story is about Shinji when there is clearly tons of other things happening.
What you can say is that the story's main focus is Shinji, which is different. What it means, is that you can't cut away everything else but Shinji and expect it to work as a story. Without the other "stories", Shinji's story is worth absolutely nothing at all.
It needs everything else to make sense. Otherwise Shinji is just talking gibberish, and you won't understand.
>I'm not sure why you're bringing up Rebuild
oh fuck off retard. Look at the context before you reply. Look at the OP. Think of where you are.
That she opened to other people was also spelled out after she learned about team work.
I'm sorry. That whole scene was just unnecessary unless you're a dummy and can't watch a movie.
but it's great OP, what are you talking about, watch it again
Nope. There's the inner character moment, and then doing it.
I'm sorry if you're so autistic you can't understand the difference between thinking something and putting it to action. The latter is incredibly hard for many introverted/hurt people.
But I guess you just want MUH HURD ASKA WAIFU, amirite?
Seriously, it's because of people like you that shit like 3.0 exists. Not being willing to work with what you have, you'd rather throw it all away for a destructive but superficial Evangelion that simply has cool&badass butthurt Asuka.
You're your own worst enemy and you've got the gall to complain about it.
Objectively yes but in the end all those stories were used to develop Shinji. Shinji is the most important character. It's his story.
You wrote that 3.0 is not at the end. What did you imply there? That it can't be about Shinji because it's not the last movie? Why not? NGE just established it in the last episodes but it doesn't have to repeat NGE.
It establishes the difference - 3.0 and potentially 4.0 will not work even remotely as well as NGE did even for Shinji because all those stories? They aren't there.
It's some kind of mechanical joyride where you watch Shinji reacting to things, basically. It doesn't even portray Shinji as well as NGE did, even when it's his own show fully.
Ironically, with 3.0 all it does is to repeat NGE, poorly.
This anon: >>101347130
is correct. It follows the same motions of 23/24 except in express and as you agreed, the rest cut away.
3.0 did not have to repeat NGE, but it did so anyway with various changes that don't affect much and overall only serves to take away from what Rebuild had achieved for 1-2 movies and what NGE had achieved by that point.
>But I guess you just want MUH HURD ASKA WAIFU, amirite?
Oh, geez. Here go shipper and waifu accusations. The last resort of a feeble mind.
After listening to some pointlessly angry people in 3.0 threads I feel like I ship everyone and everyone is my waifu.
Evangelion is not even one of my favorites.
Before you all "last resort", see the first portion of the post.
Also you know I'm right.
Shinji's story is undermined by the lack of the rest of the stories.
3.0 evokes a lot of anger, but so does 2.0. The people who get upset about the most minor and pointless detail ever, like you do, are all waifufags at some level.
Why exactly would you care about that particular scene, which is a... you know just fine scene of development, unless you were butthurt about something? It requires extreme shortsightedness to make up your mind after the introduction, it's like deciding Asuka is a cliche tsundere after seeing her first few episodes.
2.22 gives Asuka an entirely new vector which is what 2.22 does well, although 3.0 doesn't want to pick up on that and just leaves Asuka with an "implied" character instead of an actual one.
In NGE you give it some time, and Rebuild did a good job with the Asuka character, shipper butthurt aside. It netted Asuka her most popular performance in years.
>It establishes the difference - 3.0 and potentially 4.0 will not work even remotely as well as NGE
Well, no it won't. NGE is a lightning in a bottle. You can't repeat it's success.
>Ironically, with 3.0 all it does is to repeat NGE
If follows similar motions, yes, but it gives a different message.
>3.0 did not have to repeat NGE
Actually it did. Just like Shinji repeats his mistake.
>NGE is a lightning in a bottle. You can't repeat it's success.
Don't agree. Not only is it possible, but you could even do it better in some ways.
>If follows similar motions, yes, but it gives a different message.
The same motions, only less detailed and worse piece by piece.
The message suffers by failing to deliver itself as anything but pretentious garbage.
>Actually it did. Just like Shinji repeats his mistake.
Let me get this straight. You're saying it doesn't need to repeat NGE in one post, then that it has?
I'm saying that Rebuild doesn't need to repeat NGE, but it ended up doing that anyway.
>Why exactly would you care about that particular scene, which is a... you know just fine scene of development
Because it's fucking terrible unless you're an idiot who can't watch movies. I'm not going to explain it. If you don't understand you don't understand. That's good.
There's nothing to understand. You're just fundamentally set against it for some reason.
You can't explain it, and you won't even try - like there's nothing to understand, there's also nothing to explain.
I do understand why someone would become obsessed with that scene however, but it's not because of the scene itself. I'd like to call it a "pre-existing condition".
I mean come on, "not knowing how to watch movies" ? Listen to yourself. You're ignoring Asuka's big set up for the future because you're butthurt about something you're not willing to admit. As if there aren't two more movies after that to capitalize on the changes.
You fucking what, mate?
I'm guessing he's thinking what we're all thinking, the bullshit about the FAR is terrible sci-fi schlock that should never, ever have been introduced as a concept.
The same way timeloops and kaworufagging in Rebuild is retarded, so are the FAR.
>Don't agree. Not only is it possible, but you could even do it better in some ways.
You can't. It's art. There's more to it than just characters, the story, the script, the music, the animation. There's something that's way more important than that. Something invisible, something that has no name, something that is bigger than any of us and too complex for anyone to understand. But at the same time it's simple and everyone can feel it. That's what makes a classic.
We can spend years discussing it but we won't get any closer to its true nature because it's the true nature of humanity itself.
>Something invisible, something that has no name, something that is bigger than any of us and too complex for anyone to understand. But at the same time it's simple and everyone can feel it.
You sound like a religious nutjob.
Go be wrong somewhere else, people watch EVA and end up hating it as well.
I actually got mad by reading your post. Get fucked.
He sounds like a PRETENTIOUS nutjob.
I really hate EVA.
It seems like people like it because they feel like they belong to a group because of it, something they can't get anywhere else, and so they defend it with their life; Even if it's objectively awful.
It's like you actively say things to get people to hate you
>responding to b8
I didn't say everyone should love it.
Only good thing from the fil.
your way of thinking and feeling is shit
I liked the imouto I think she deserved more screentime, but that's about it.
CALL THE POLICE NIGGA
Well, I was gonna try to deb8 it, bu now that I see it's b8, I'm not gonna h8, just gonna r8 it an 8
Fuck her, I want to see her brother
New best grill, sriously they even fucked Ibuki.
Takes notes here, THIS is actually pretensions
Hiraki and Toji best pairing after Maya and Ritsuko
It's a fucking shame literally nobody gives a shit about either
Always felt like that shit was forced because it's was just another way to make us feel sad for this secondary character who is about to be half dead.
Sides, Hikari's so vanilla, so freaking bland and the best secondary character under the age of 24 deserves better
Like it wasn't hard to fuck a character who can be summed up with "I am a lesbian"
FAR are okay as a tribute to sci-fi narratives and 2001, and were kinda implied from the start.
It's the inevitable timelooping that's cliche and fucking stupid.
Hikari was good enough for the role she filled, but really the only interesting thing she did was be asuka's friend
i loved it but then again i might have shit taste
Still a qt
Shame there's no doujins. NO DOUJINS. That's as much as zero zeroes. And that's just terrible.
>Shikinami is more likable and more relevant
what the fuck are you even talking about lol
>people watch EVA and end up hating it as well.
Only if they're fucking retarded or refuse to watch anything lacking excess amounts of surface-level entertainment.
>she's capable of realizing her own mistakes - something Soryu could not.
If it's a new development, it's a really shitty, boring new development.
A huge reason for Asuka being such an interesting character is how fundamentally broken and incapable of a person she is at times. If Rebuild Asuka isn't that then... she's just any old red-headed bitch.
>it enables for even more new developments, and ultimately, new revelations. It's new.
new for the sake of new is fucking retarded.