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Anime fans, weeaboos, and Otaku are ruining anime according to Miyazaki

http://en.rocketnews24.com/2014/01/30/ghiblis-hayao-miyazaki-says-the-anime-industrys-problem-is-that-its-full-of-anime-fans/

“You see, whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, it depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, ‘Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life.’”

“Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know.”

“It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.”

He is completely correct, we'll never see another Akira if japanese animators don't start learning how to draw real people instead of moeblob aliens
>>
Why would we want another Akira? It was shit
>>
Wow, this is only the millionth time he's said this.
>>
But if I wanted to watch realistic people do realistic things i'd turn on the television I threw out 4 years ago.
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>>101222030
>“It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.”
Heh
>>
>>101222138
>Akira
>shit
Said like someone that truly has no appreciation for traditional animation
>>
Yeah, I'm sure girls like Nausicaa, Kiki and Ponyo exist in real life.
>>
>>101222229

All 3 are incredibly average so yeah they do.
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>>101222229
I don't think the statement is purely about character design as so many people will conclude, but the average Ghibli character does look more realistic than your average anime character, as far as 2D go.
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>It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans
Thank God.
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>>101222204
Animation like a mash up of sakuga and music?
O like a real movie?
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>>101222030
>the anime industry’s problem is that it’s full of anime fans
What the fuck do you want? Anime haters?
>>
>>101222030
The ego of kids that make something semi-decent once in a while is amazing.
>>
Because Miyazaki's humans are oh so realistic looking in comparison. Doesn't he just rehash the same plot points again and again too?
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>>101222229
They don't need to, what he means is that he has an understanding of the human form from years of gesture drawings, still lifes and actually observing people, how they move and flow and that sort of thing,

Natural movements are really important in animation, even if you do over exaggerate your motions or aren't really looking to make something that is really realistic, having a good understanding of the fundamentals is crucial to being a good animator.

What Miyazaki is basically saying is that all of the people in the industry only know how to draw anime from studying other anime. So barely anyone actually has the fundamental skills needed to fluid, impressive animation.

I stopped watching new anime quite a while ago, I'm more of an animation enthusiast in general, and anime has been really disappointing me for quite a few years in that regard.
>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_xMX5nP1rM

The beginning of this clip has always stuck in my memory. For something so short and unimportant he pays the utmost attention to how people act in the real world.
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>>101222533
>What the fuck do you want?
Competent animators that have even a fleeting grasp on the fundamentals?
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>>101222138
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>>101222585
>Because Miyazaki's humans are oh so realistic looking in comparison.
They generally tend to be.
>Doesn't he just rehash the same plot points again and again too?
That has nothing to do with the thread.
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>>101222030
he sounds almost like a hipster
...or has 4chan become / becoming one?

give it up. anime is made to appeal the japanese, not the pretencious international public. Japan has created moe, they live for moe and they are moe...weither they like it or not.
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>>101222587
try Yozakura Quartet.
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>>101222649
>Competent animators
Talk about budget. Cheap animated shows can be great. You need better directors and better writers if you want something good, the animation is subjetive on terms of good.
>>
Uh oh better look out. The otakus get mighty mad when someone calls them out.
>>
>Miyazaki hates anime fans
What else is new.
>>
>Stop liking what I dont like
-Hayao Miyazaki
>>
No Miyasaki san, the problem is that the industry is only making money by catering to a single group of fans.

you need to make your anime make money by other means other than just selling bd's

you need to market other things, get more sponsors to pay cash for your anime etc
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>>101222714
>weither
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Old man Miyazaki is going to be rambling on about the industry and his fear of technology until the day he dies, isn't he?
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>>101222030
>mfw I read that line
>mfw I understood I just want to go in a "creative artistic" direction (comic, manga, cartoons,...) to be able to play God

Wel.
>>
>>101222030
He's right though

But it can't be helped, no one cares enough about anime
>>
Miyazaki is a bitter old man who's pissy that Disney has become an entertainment empire in the West while his legacy is dakimakura. Film would have been at 11 if Kon hadn't died.
>>
This is the pilot for the helicopter Satsuki was flying at the end of episode 16, when she retreats from the region.

GUESS WHO
>>
>makes a bunch of mediocre movies
>otaku ignore him and he only gets popular with gaijin because Disney put his stuff out and Americans think his films are good
>gets butthurt and says "a-anime is shit anyway!"
What a faggot. Tomino did something similar recently too. Who gives a fuck about these old geezers.
>>
>>101222918
fuck your shit

Isao Takahata is already severely underrated. Heck no one even knows him because Miyazaki takes all the credit every time
>>
Why do people always compare cheap, mass produced, late night shows with multimillion dollar movies and act like the difference is an indication of some terrible downward trend?
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>>101222030
But he's right.
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>>101222030
so just like art draw from reality?
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>>101222790
that same technology is what brings his ghibli to life. I find it hipocrate when he goes "protect nature" and "tablets are mind masturbation" when ghibli has like 3 ghibli stores open in each mayor city, each one with tons of merchandising for the hungry, ghibli fans.

mr. miyazaki, you are part of the system too
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>>101222985
It's easier to throw an uneducated opinion than to research.
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>>101222918
The good die young which is why based Kon is no longer with us.
>>
Can we stop talking about this already?

Who fucking cares. This has been old news for 10 years already. Fuck.
>>
>>101222918
>otaku ignore him
Why is /a/ so hilariously ignorant of what real otaku actually like?
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>>101222918
Miyazakis are insanely popular in Japan too, so trying to turn this into a western vs Japan cultural difference argument is silly. Also anyone who thinks they are mediocre films has pretty shit taste. You can stop trying to think like an otaku so hard.
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>>101222985
Because if Miyazaki says it, it must be true.
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>>101223028
>hipocrate
Just learn English before you continue posting here
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>>101223028
Beat me to posting that picture.

Supply and demand, dear Miyazaki.
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>>101223028
>mr. miyazaki, you are part of the system too

He MADE the system.

If he made works like Ghost in the Shell or Cowboy Bebop, those are what the average anime would be.

But he didn't. He made moe like Kiki and Totoro.

He only has himself to blame.
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>>101223028
and this is why CR won't solve anything
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>>101223034
satoshi kon was different. he was a real director and he wasn't pretencious. I do miss him.
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>>101222030
The man is completely right.

If moeblob slice-of-life shows are all that's required to make the weebs happy, then that's all that we're going to get.
And sadly, that's how it's been for a long, long time.
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>>101222751
>the animation is subjetive on terms of good.
Untrue, there is objectively good, and objectively bad animation and animators.

>Talk about budget.
You can still make a show that looks great, while still being low budget, it just takes a good understanding of your animation fundamentals
See: Everything by Genndy Tartakovsky
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>>101222657
Laughing Kojima is best Kojima.
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>>101222138
It had god-tier animation/art, it was just above average in everything else.
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I think it's really unfair to compare the TV anime industry to the theatrical side. While I can understand his criticisms, hearing it come from him is like hearing industry titans shit-talking Mom and Pop stores for their lack of variety of goods and their inability to advertise on a large scale.

If we compared TV using theatre as a standard, nobody would fucking watch TV because it's blatantly inferior in terms of budget and the talent backing it.
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>>101222030
I can live with bad animation I just wish most anime wasn't all just pandering to a group of people even the Japanese don't like.
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>>101222504
Animation as in the dead art form.
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>>101222030
>He is completely correct, we'll never see another Akira if japanese animators don't start learning how to draw real people instead of moeblob aliens

What absolute bullshit. Having stupid anime fans does nothing to damage the craft besides provide money for shitty talent. The more anime fans, the more money available for ALL animators. This is like arguing that no good movies can be made anymore because there are so many normalfag movie watchers. It is horseshit because there are still the same amount of avid fans as before, but now the population is simply bigger. That works to everyone's advantage, from normalfags to hardcore fans. Miyazaki and the like are just mad that there are no more good directors, and those that are good haven't been good in a long time. Don't turn around and try to pretend you have to pander to an audience because you want to make more money, that's applicable to every industry. Want Akira and EVA success? Direct with the same level of talent and ability.
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>>101223158
>he wasn't pretencious
learn to spell
also paranoia agent
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>>101223063
You can't deny Miyazaki is incredibly overrated in the west due to his films getting much more exposure than the average anime movie because of Disney. And his movies are pretty mediocre in my opinion. Compared to Kon or even more recently Hosada Mamoru.
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>>101223197
>the weebs

Fuck off back to /v/
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>>101223284
I'd rate the story as below average. It cut and/or condensed practically everything that made the manga great.
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>>101223197
I thought weebs liked SnK 3deep5u kind of shows. from what I know, they wouldn't even remotely get near shows like achi kochi unless it's a woman and it's a fuyoshit show
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>>101222681
>They generally tend to be.
NOPE
>>>/v/
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>>101223314
Jesus Christ, this isn't a thread about your favorite anime directors. No one is saying Miyazaki is the only one good there, but he's earned his popularity.
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Yep, he's right. Entirely. I don't mind a whole lot since, honestly, this shit panders to me, but I do wish there was more variety at times.

>>101223197
>If moeblob slice-of-life shows are all that's required to make the weebs happy

The weebs don't matter, the domestic audience does.
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>>101223028
Correction should read:
>we want to make more profits than we did before so we are going to pander more to the larger audience
>please don't blame us for this because it totally isn't our fault
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>>101223408
I'm saying that Miyazaki can fuck off, he's only saying this shit because he's upset that people are starting to recognize his movies aren't so great. I don't know who he thinks he is insulting the very fans that consume the stuff he makes. Anno does the same shit, it's ridiculously childish.
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>>101222138
It's nothing compared to the manga but had its merits. Amazing animation, atmosphere, story be damned, the real draw was the world they built.
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>>101222714
why is it so wrong for Miyazaki to against the flow though? do you really wish for more moe shows to be born?
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>>101222918
according to the article, 90% of japs have seen at least one miyazaki film

He is like their Spielberg
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>>101223405
They don't stand out because of ridiculous clothes or weird animesque anatomical features like weird hairdo or giant shiny eyes
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>>101223528
I think you are projecting far too much.
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>>101223297
>money to animators

haha nice joke
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>>101222587
>What Miyazaki is basically saying is that all of the people in the industry only know how to draw anime from studying other anime.
This. Just like how H-doujinshi artists only know how to draw sexthings from studying other H-doujinshi.
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>>101222985
>compare cheap, mass produced, late night shows with multimillion dollar movies

Actually, I'm comparing technically skilled animators that learned all of their fundamentals and did their studies, still lifes, and gesture drawings like a real artist, to the Otakus that learned how to animate by watching lots of anime, only studied how to draw anime, and have no technical skill at all.
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>>101223528
This. They are buttfrustrated at their own inability to create new shit with the same level of talent as their older shit.
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>>101223528
Who are those people? the vocal minority of /a/? The Wind Rises was one of the highest grossing films of 2013 in Japan iirc, and "people" loved it. He's saying whatever the fuck he wants, because he can get away with it. This isn't about him being "upset" and trying to stay relevant by drawing the attention to him.
>>
Miyazaki is a hack that doesn't know when to shut the fuck up. Why can't people enjoy actual good directors like Akiyuki Shinbo, Yamakan, Mitsuo Fukuda and Tetsuro Araki?
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>>101223666
rustle_loli_pthc_sock.jpeg
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>>101222030
MOESHIT CONFIRMED FOR BEING THE CANCER THAT IS KILLING ANIME

But no
My statement is bait, or i should go to /v/, /reddit/ or i'm from IRC right?

Lame logic from lame people.
>>
>>101223568
Miyazaki is the mainstream. Don't compare the late night anime we watch to what the majority of Japanese people consider animated films. What do you think is more relevant to anime as a whole, Princess Mononoke or Oreimo?
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>>101223025
Nope, but I study real life so that my stylized drawings look better.

Every real artist knows that if you don't study still lifes and gesture drawings, your animation will suffer for it. No matter what style you want to animate, understanding these things are beyond important in animation.
>>
Anime is shallow thing
That is true
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>Miyazaki complaining about the current generation again

BOY I SURE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS BEFORE

Is this all he does between movies?
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>>101223711
>Yamakan
>>
>>101223408
>Miyazaki
>Good
His works runs on lowest common denominators, this is why Ghibli is the greatest normalfag studio, actually he acknowledges his works are not anime, but just 'animation' in true western definition and perception of it, in other words cartoons.
Ghibli is not /a/ related, try >>>/co/
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>>101223794
He also retires.
>>
At first, I wanted to be angry. Then, he was totally fucking right oh my god
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>>101223297
>What absolute bullshit. Having stupid anime fans does nothing to damage the craft besides provide money for shitty talent.
It also floods the market with untalented animators that only want to work on anime because its their obsession and only friend in life.
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>>101223823
>I like anime because it's a hobby that doesn't cater to normalfags
>Ghibli is not /a/ related, try >>>/co/
Kill yourself.
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>>101222790

Don't talk shit about based old man Miyazaki. He was making quality anime before you were even born.
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>>101223734
Its just funny how every anime that isnt bebop or dbz is moeshit to some people, its like you don't even watch anime.
>>
He's right though, that's why I don't watch much anime anymore. I only started watching SnK because it was different.
But at the same time, otaku are the only people watching anime, so might as well cater to them. You really think anyone is going to give a shit if they start making good anime? No, because anime has always been seen as a childish hobby, and nothing will change that. People aren't going to start caring.

Then again, SnK did get a lot of people caring, so who knows, maybe he's on to something.

I still like some moe SoL though so I don't want that to disappear completely.
>>
>>101223745
What do you think is more relevant to anime as a whole, Princess Mononoke or Oreimo?
You should ask /a/ this question in 10 years time.
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>>101223892
Fuck off if you think his shit has a place here or falls under any category we have.
It's just drawn normal movies/series.
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>>101223823
No, even though you are entitled to your opinions that's a terrible, hipster tier opinion.

I'm not even a Miyazakifag but "it's too mainstream" is not a valid critique.
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>>101222918
>>otaku ignore him
Really? All the "otakus" I know love Ghibi movies.
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>>101223405
Yeah, they do actually.
Miyazaki has a great understanding of the human form. He can stylize his drawings and characters however he wants, but he still makes sure that the anatomy of the characters makes sense, especially in motion.

His characters always feel like they have depth, and the movements are always natural and smooth.
There is a lot more to animation than just art style man
>>
>>101223732
Because tracing real CP is something to be admired for.
>>
>>101222030
>‘Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life.
"You have to be a real pedophile to understand" -Hayao Miyazaki
>>
>>101223711
>Who are those people? the vocal minority of /a/?
>>>/v/
Miyazaki works aren't even anime, just works from an old hack trying to emulate Disney cartoons.
>>
>>101223925
What the hell are you even talking about? The answer is Princess Mononoke now and will be in ten years. You're point that "moeshit is mainstream" or whatever is just flat out wrong; those types of shows very rarely sell well, despite a few notable exceptions.
>>
>>101223979
Do you live in Japan? Because if not, everyone you know who calls themselves otaku is a huge weeaboo faggot.
>>
>>101223979
>>Xs ignore them
>Really? All the Ys I know love Ghibli movies
Why do you do this to yourself and the world?
>>
I think he's correct.
All art draws from real life at some point.
Anime draws too heavily from other anime.
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>>101223823
obvious trolling is obvious
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>>101223973
You're incredibly new if you think /a/ hates Ghiblis or that you need to shit on every mainstream anime that is liked by "normalfags" in order to fit in here. You're just a moron who has no understanding of the medium and think your shit taste is what dictates what anime should be like.
>>
Miyazaki once again unaware that he creates exactly what he criticises. Dumb fuck.
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>>101223911
But those retards actually don't watch anime.
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>>101222030

Good, akira was garbage. Some little faggot gets powers and kills all his friends for no reason and mutates into a huge blob and is transported to another dimension with WOAH RANDOM MICHAEL BAY EXPLOSIONS everywhere...thank god for "shitty" ANIME FANS

I also fail to see how the current fans bar anyone from making something like Akira...it's more or less "i don't like anything now and i was the best and can't be good anyone because of you guys, i promise it's not my fault for being shitty"
>>
>>101224038
Samefagging will get you nowhere.
>>
>>101222030

I don't now who this guy is but he seems like just a complainer who isn't happy that his ideals aren't the norm. Despite anything he says I think anime has come a long way over the past two decades. The fact that he's trying to discredit it says more about him than about the industry.
>>
>>101223988
Because him streaming a drawing blatantly showed him tracing.

Oh, wait. And on top of that, there'd be at least one pedo out there who'd be able to pick out specific references to whatever shit they've seen besides 4 letters.
>>
>ITT if the anime is not a SoL moeblob, then is shit and for casuals
>>
>>101222030
It's sad when you realize even Anno is more mature and less pretentious when it comes to his fans than this guy.
>>
>>101224047
Yes, I am talking about American weeab fags. I wasn't aware people in Japan actually called themselves "otaku". i am dumb
>>
>>101223306
How the hell is Paranoia Agent pretentious? It's so easy to understand that a monkey could get the gist of the story and it doesn't keep you in the dark as to what is going on.
>>
>>101223219
I agree with where your heart is at. But you have to realise the state of the industry, and the conditions that most of the animators live in. If you want better anime in general, you'll have to move the source of income into a less focused area so not every studio is trying to please the exact same crowd. And then you have to improve the pay and living condition of the animators. Once you do that animation will begin to increase, but doing either of those things alone, let alone together, is a problem that has no clear solution.
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>>101223734
anime isnt produces for you but for them.

moe isnt going anywhere any time soon.
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>>101223916
>otaku are the only people watching anime, so might as well cater to them.

I'd watch it if there was anything worth watching these days.
The reason that Otaku are the only people watching anime is because they are the only ones that could actually like the garbage that gets released these days.

Being an animation enthusiast these days is tough, hardly any quality animation coming from the east or west these days, especially traditional. It truly is a dying art form
>>
>>101224211
>If it wasn't on Toonami when I was 12 then it's a SoL moeblob shit
>>
>>101222030
Fantasy doesn't have to be like real life though.

I guess princess mononoke is shit from Miyazaki's perspective. I doubt those talking pigs and elk gods hardly had any basis taken from observing real taling pigs and elk gods.
>>
>>101224211
Welcome to /a/
>>
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>“It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.”
Sounds like Japan.
>>
I don't think Miyazaki asks for photorealism or anything. I'm pretty fucking sure he's aware that some little thing called style exists. I think he's rather referring to real human bean personalities. Like take Fukumoto's works for example. His characters don't look like real life, but his major works are some of the best in terms of the humanity they contain. Meanwhile in all run of the mill anime (the majority of productions each season) characters don't look nor act like real life.

Also calling Miyazaki shit and saying X person is better doesn't make you cool, it makes you retarded and pretentious. A /tv/ equivalent of this is hating on Akira Kurosawa and going "m-muh Ozu!" while being completely unaware of Masaki Kobayashi.
Miyazaki is popular AND respected (this is important) for a reason, and if he's not among your favorites you don't need to hate him so that you can expound your love for the other director. I mean shit my preferred director is Mamoru Oshii, I don't even like Miyazaki's stuff that much, but this is ridiculous. I guess it's not surprising that precisely people who can't stand other people take offense at what he implies.
>>
>>101222752
They probably get mad because many of them know what he's saying is true.
>>
>>101224231
>otaku
its japanese for Geek.
>>
>>101224217
You mean the guy who shat on his own greatest work and made Rebuilds as an indirect way to tell the fanbase to fuck off for liking the story in a way that didn't coincide with his view?
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>>101223568
>going against the flow
frankly, I don't think he is the "master" everyone thinks he is. He isn't "going against the flow", he just hates modern society and makes movies (for children) about it. Believing that he is "special" is the kind of things hipsters would do. Satoshi Kon did smarter movies but no one praised him like everyone does with miyazaki, not even after his death.

watching how the western audience goes whining about "not enough sundance-tier" anime out there, I would say, YES FEED ME MORE MOEBLOOB SO THESE CRITERION EDITION THREAD END AND WE CAN GO BACK TO TALK ABOUT ELFS BEING RAPED
>>
>>101222587
>Natural movements are really important in animation, even if you do over exaggerate your motions or aren't really looking to make something that is really realistic, having a good understanding of the fundamentals is crucial to being a good animator.
It's funny because faggots on here who watched things like Apollon praise people like Bahi JD and I've never seen anybody in real life bounce and flail their arms the way he animates unless they were on trampolines.
>>
What a fucking old queer, go be a hipster somewhere else.
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Anno knew this already 1996
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>>101224083
>You're incredibly new if you think /a/ hates Ghiblis
Sounds like the new one is you, lately along with the influx of /v/ermin there's also some normalfags posting Ghiblifaggotry, but in the past it was more heavely hated on /a/, try the archive you'll understand what I talking about, newfaggot normalfag cancerous retard.
>>
>>101224159
>Good, akira was garbage. Some little faggot gets powers and kills all his friends for no reason and mutates into a huge blob and is transported to another dimension with WOAH RANDOM MICHAEL BAY EXPLOSIONS everywhere...thank god for "shitty" ANIME FANS


Wow, its really like you think this thread is about the story and not animation quality
>>
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Why the fuck would anyone want anime to look like real life?
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>>101223916
>But at the same time, otaku are the only people watching anime, so might as well cater to them. You really think anyone is going to give a shit if they start making good anime? No, because anime has always been seen as a childish hobby, and nothing will change that. People aren't going to start caring.

But this is COMPLETELY wrong you fucking retard, learn how television works.
Anime not being bought by non-otaku DOES NOT MEAN that non-otaku do not watch it.
>>
>>101224159
Sure, the manga story was superior to the movie adaptation but damn did Akira experiment and set the bar for a lot of things.
It was a highly influential production, probably to the day.
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>>101224039
What about anime becoming less and less mainstream? If the fan community (a broad definition, so bear with me) consists of 90% otaku, what do you think the general consensus would be?
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>>101223916
>I only started watching SnK because it was different.

>Grimdark shonen garbage
>different
>>
>>101224186
What?
>>
>>101223823
i fucking hate miyaza all same face same design shit in everyfuckingone movie
>>
>>101222030
Wait wait, if I wanted to see people that looked like actual people, why would I be watching a cartoon instead of a real-life action show?
>>
>>101224269
Everyone ITT but a few idiots like you understood the point made. Realisticness is more than what exists in real life or not, moron. A work with fantasy elements can be realistic.
>>
>insane old man complains that people who produce media actually like the things that they produce instead of being soulless businessmen
>he also adds that instead of teaching kids useless skills like math and science, we should be teaching them to survive in the wilderness
>>
>>101224264
>toonami
>existing when i was 12
>>
So he's trying to pander to normalfags so they buy his movies because contrary to popular belief, normalfags in Japan far outnumber otaku much like in any other country. Nothing will change because of this and there's no need to care, Ghibli movies are about as related to /a/ as Disney is.
>>
>>101222138
fucking baito chan
>>
>>101224188
>I don't now who this guy is
>Don't know who Hayao Miyazaki is
Does My Neighbour Totoro, Nauusica, KiKi's Delivery service, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Ponyo, Castle of Cagliostro or Howl's Moving Castle ring any bells?
>>
>>101224320
Satoshi Kon isn't praised? I don't think you know what you're talking about at all.
>>
>>101223916
there are still some things like artistic vision.
Animation is a very interesting field and anime shows that you CAN make amazing stuff with it.
>>
>>101224458
But Toonami is on right now.
>>
>>101223711
by people, are you also counting parents and children who saw it? that's another market. How many of "us", the anime fans really liked it?
>>
>>101223297
Yeah it does actually. Who do you think animates your favorite anime? Almost all animators are otakus. A lot of them are obese shutins who can afford to be payed the shit sallary that animators get because their lifestyle solely consists of drawing, watching, and buying anime. There was a thread a while back saying how shitty and fucked the anime industry was a while back. This isn't it but it's close enough.

http://altjapan.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/03/voices-from-the-anime-industry.html

Animators get payed nothing and work long hours. The large majority of them are horny virgins who probably are too awkward to make eye contact with a girl for more than a few seconds. Miyazaki was right. They need to stop hiring anime fans as animators, and instead hire animators who choose that profession because they enjoy animating. Which is probably impossible at this point because no normal person wants to be an animator because of how shit the pay is.

In other words the anime industry has fucked its hopes of being anything beyond moeblob fan service.
>>
>never see another Akira
>japanese animators

Who gives a fuck, the manga is what was impressive.
>>
>>101224364

Story is a lot more important than animation so that's what I went for.

Akira didn't have very good art either, there's a bunch of great animation quality these days.
>>
>>101224351
>try the archive
Nice backpedalling.
We had several great Ghibli threads this month alone and it worked because it was relatively free of underage shitposters like you. This hasn't changed in years.
>>
>>101224290
this is the face of /a/ unfortunately. Most of the people here are hipster for the sake of being better than those they perceive as "normals". Which is funny because the best anime are once that, while outlandish alot of the times, are ones that can be enjoyed by normal people if they go into it with an open mind. Which, ironically, are the ones labeled "hipstershit" here.
>>
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Holy shit people, it has nothing to do with aesthetics. He means means actual characterization. Most of the industry today is run by people who grew up with the medium looking for what they wanted in characters and have distilled it all to the point that a serious majority of characters in both anime and manga are walking fucking cliches and tropes. Wish fulfillment to an absurd degree, in both genders. He means the industry needs to take a hard look at itself and attempt creating characters with actual depth and nuance again.
>>
>>101224083
>You're incredibly new if you think /a/ hates Ghiblis
The fuck kind of standard is that, I don't even care if you think the majority likes his shit, even if they do.
I can make my own statements, I don't need to be influenced or kiss ass.
You're a retard.
Him complaining is like him saying 'what I do is obscure now, it's sad, anime is dying'
When he's the one that sticks out like a sore thumb and doesn't fit in.
He should be happy that he can make money by using a medium to reach a different target group, and then just shut the fuck up.
He barely has any competition in his 'front', hence the ego and retarded statements.
>>
>>101224504
And i'm 38
>>
>>101224244
Pretension has nothing to do with how easy something is to understand.
>>
>>101224394
Television anime has never been particularly mainstream. It's usually either children's shows or late night otaku shows.

If you look at anime movies, they're on the decline not because of the big bad evil otaku but because American animated movies use CGI and those are what tends to be popular in Japan.
>>
>>101223916
>He's right though, that's why I don't watch much anime anymore. I only started watching SnK because it was different.
lol'd
>>
>>101224509
>"us", the anime fans
>>
>>101224576
>once

ones
>>
>>101223979
Real otaku love it too. Only /a/-tier niwaka tryhards pretend it's not good
>>
>>101224526
>payed
>>
>>101224582
>The fuck kind of standard is that, I don't even care if you think the majority likes his shit, even if they do.
The poster I was responding to tried to make it seem like there was no reason for this thread here since no one likes Ghiblis. Learn to read a quote tree before you flip your shit out, faggot.
>>
>>101224526
You aren't even making an argument, you're just throwing buzzwords and making assumptions about the lifestyles of animators that have no base aside from the fact that they are poor.
>>
>>101222030
No arguments here, I completely agree with him. Hell a lot them have admitted outright that this is true.
>>
>>101224269
Again, he isn't talking about the story you mongoloid, he is talking about animation fundamentals.

You need to be able to draw from life, you need to practice you gesture drawings, and study real people, to be able to make your own stylized art that doesn't look like shit.

Why do you think every one that ever goes to /ic/ for help with drawing anime gets told "learn the fundamentals! Read Loomis! Watch Vilppu! Right side of the Brain! Gesture drawings and still life studies!"
>>
>>101224664
Laughed
>>
>>101224573
>Nice backpedalling.
>Implying
Is well known fact that SnK brought several types of normalfaggots, including Ghlibifags like you and other types of cancerous normalfaggots
>>
Why are people in here so angry?
Do they doubt the truth of his message or don't they like what it implies?
>>
>>101224713
I am that person you moron, I think I know what I meant with my own comment, jesus christ you have problems.
>>
>>101224480
satoshi kon was the dennis ritchie of the anime industry (yes, i'm exaggerating but everyone seems to like sucking miyazaki's cock just like they did with steve jobs, so i'll use dennis ritchie as an example)
>>
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so much reporting today!... delicious....
>>
>>101224761
Now you're just grasping at straws, and bringing up some other fanbase name in a sad attempt to derail the thread. Try a little harder. It's okay, you've only been here for 3 months.
>>
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>>101224580
pretty much this.

But at the end of the day the jp otakus have the final say.
"well maybe not for long"

All just supply and demand.
>>
He also thinks that using an ipod is the same as masturbation, what a crazy old cunt.
>>
>>101224775
They know the message is accurate but don't want to admit it
>>
>>101224664
HAHAHA fuck you kid, I am watching anime since 80's Ghibli old geezer is nothing short but a hack and his works are unrelated to anime.
>>
>>101224580
Don't waste your time, this place is an intellectual vacuum.
>>
>>101224584
If you had a semblance of maturity, you'd appreciate any genre and be aware that there can be gems in the places you least expect.

>>101224573
He's not wrong though. Every time Miyazaki has said similar shit in the past, there have been countless threads like this bashing his shitty sensationalist comments. He said he was going to retire years ago, but still produces the same stuff over and over again (I do admit, I enjoy it) and criticises the industry because of X, Y and Z.
>>
>>101224681
I live in a country that you probably have never heard of that uses "payed" instead of "paid".
>>
>>101224803
Why does anime or any medium for that matter has to fit a certain mold? Whatever happened to creativity? Shit, you should downring stop consuming any form of entertainment with that mindset, period.
>>
>>101224580
b-bbbut muh generic tsundere loli waifu
>>
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god /a/, what happened to you? you used to be cool. remember when we used to talk about ZOMG TEH REI? what the fuck is this? since when you became to critical about anime?

>INB4 /a/ hates anime
no, srls when was the last time /a/ did something cool?
>>
>>101224775
>Why are people here so angry?
The thread is designed to make people angry. This thread has been posted many times before, and we've had lots of practice at bringing up things to annoy, making points that infuriate, ask questions that result in pointless argument.

This is just how we do. There is nothing new to be said, no questions to be answered. You're just watching angry piss on its way down a drain-pipe.
>>
>>101224775
>don't they like what it implies?

See the video game industry.

Games have gotten worse, franchises fallen from grace all for appealing to non-gamers.
>>
>>101224775
He's not wrong in what he's saying, he's wrong in his reasoning. /a/ loves jumping on otaku and saying they're killing anime whenever they can, without looking at the industry in a broader perspective.

There are so many more factors that go into it, and the fact that people keep comparing late night TV anime to old films and saying that it means anime is complete shit now is stupid. Everything needs context.
>>
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>>101224342
>Most anime makers are basically autistic.
>Anno 1996
>>
>>101224923
You mean it turned into one. Or rather was turned into one.
>>
>>101225041
and the western audience
don't forget about that
>>
>>101223292
>I can live with bad animation
I can't, they might as well just fucking show you pages from the manga if no one cares about the animation.
>>
While what he says is true and its effect are evident (take how shoujo manga used to look in the 90s, and how some yaoi stuff still looks), and is something that can be seen also in the american comics scene, I disagree when he says that it's bad.
There are a lot of anime fans, from yurifans to harem to otome to fujo, and all of them enter the industry and work on it.

Take Kyoani, Utsumi and Yamada, they are both females but they have very different backgrounds and work on the same stuff, so they each bring something different.

Beside, it's a tough and shit industry, if they don't want only people with a love for this to be into it they have to improve the conditions significantly.
>>
>>101224775
What did you expect, the board is full of tryhards trying to fight the boogeyman.

>>101224940
He is just like Disney, and old geezer that ran out of ideas, but even on his ramblings about "da new generation" he may have a point or two.
Can't deny he does his best to state it like a faggot.
>>
>>101224940
I appreciate every genre. I don't appreciate the excess.
>>
>>101224940
Despite the problems you have with Miyazaki, he's usually spot on in his critiscisms of the industry. Its rare to find shows with real character depth that aren't just cliches being used to mimic depth seen in other shows.

You want to know, which action shows have had the most character depth for the last few seasons? Kill La Kill and Shinjeki No Kyojin. Yeah, that isn't saying much, I'm aware. But compared to regurgitated LN Plot #194242187497 those too stand at the top.
>>
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>>101222030
Except that your movies, as broad-appealing and successful as they are, can't maintain an industry in their own.
These "weeaboos, otakus" or whatever you wanna call them are the people pumping the blood called money into the industry.

Go fuck yourself, Miyazaki.
>>
>>101224664
It's enjoyable. It doesn't change that it's the same shitty story, over and over again. Boy/Girl meets mysterious person falling/flying from the sky. Hijinks ensue as they get closer together. Blah blah.

It doesn't mean that we can't call him a hack or that his works aren't the 10/10 masterpieces others think it is. Nor does it validate his comments because he's like any old Japanese man. Unable to adapt to a changing world and laments how things are different now to how they were back then.

>>101225042
Just like dipshits who compare 90s hypergore OVAs to modern TV anime, being completely unaware of 80s and 90s TV anime being just as childish, if not more so, and then lamenting how anime isn't bloody and mature any more?
>>
>>101225106
If you're implying it was turned into one on purpose, I'd like to hear your /x/-tier accusations at least, please.
>>
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>>101224775
Some people are naturally dense like Pb.
>>
>>101223732
>pthc
Oh god, the old days on limewire, where downloading any porn could leave you wondering if you'll be getting a surprise visit from the party van because you missed those 4 oh so important letters in the file name
>>
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>>101225000
BTW, check em
>>
>>101224775
Truth hurts. If this was some western guy people would just call him a faggot and move on, but it's Miyazaki that is saying it and they just can't admit. So he overrated and hack and whatnot.

Same thing happens with other creators that do similar commentaries on the anime industry.
>>
Fuck you Miyazaki.
>>
>>101222138
I agree. It was one of the first anime movies I saw, rented it when I was in the army, glorious VHS. Had some nice scenes, but honestly doesn't deserve all this weird praise it gets. I guess nowadays it gets a "classic" bonus on top of that.
>>
>>101225312
No, fuck you, kid!
- Miyazaki
>>
>>101225235
What is IRC?
>>
>>101222030
>There is suddenly a problem with fucking CARTOON CHARACTERS that don't look like people
No, all artists have their own style.
I can't say I enjoy SoL but it's a market, big fucking deal. You want to change the industry, make something different that appeals to a larger demographic. You don't want to compromise artistic integrity, then don't complain about the status quo, it will always be commercial.
>>
>>101225041
Miyazaki's ramblings won't change a momentum picked up for years.
We'll just get one or two westaboo shows each season or two. I enjoy some of them, others do not and shitpost.
>>
I would like to know what Miyazaki thinks about Wake Up Girls!
>>
>>101224538
>Story is a lot more important than animation so that's what I went for.
Dohohoho, what a pleb

>Akira didn't have very good art either,
OH GOD STOP, YOUR OPINION ACTUALLY HURT TO READ

>there's a bunch of great animation quality these days.

How can one anon be so wrong?
>>
>>101225374
would call them whores, that's for sure
>>
>>101225000
/a/'s decline is because many people are subconsciously aware of the fact that they are happily eating shit. This causes them to become bitter and cynical. The ones who realise the decline have started to complain about the state of the industry while the ones who are not, lash out at them and any anime that doesn't fit their tastes because they sit it as a threat to the status quo they've come to accept and desire.
>>
>>101224580
>again
See, that's the problem.
Pollon wasn't significantly better than Love Lab, and masterpieces with great characters are, well, masterpieces because they aren't common, they have always been rare.

Pierrot's magical girls weren't much better than precure, and so on.
>>
>>101224721
Like I said there was an article awhile back that was about how the anime industry was failing a while back. It was a written by a producer who had wanted to work in anime, but then quit because he was so sick of the people he had to work with. The guy said he worked for a major studio too, but didn't list the name from what I can remember.
>>
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>>101225206
tomino lays down the law
>>
>>101224188
>I don't now who this guy is
Are you being serious?
>>
Normal people don't want smart anime.

They don't want good characterization or storytelling.

You know what they want? The same junk that we are getting just twisted slightly to suit their own tastes. You are a fool if you think otherwise.

It's like a parent telling her son to stop reading comic books while watching x-factor and eastenders.
>>
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>>101222918
Most everyone everywhere that has seen a Miyazaki film loves him.
And besides, even if you don't like him, is he wrong?
Modern anime and manga artists don't draw people, they draw anime and manga characters.
They draw by copying other artists.
There's no individuality in their designs, no life in their animation, no character in their personality.
They're just nothing.
>>
Whenever someone calls out the industry on its flaws the same kind of people make the same kind of replies.

That means they don't want things to change. They're perfectly content. They want stagnation for the sake of it. More of the same. More forever. A thousand times the same. Better to dive into things I know than to risk failure or being disappointed.

In that sense, Miyazaki is right.
>>
>>101225317
You don't understand why it gets all the 'weird praise' because you're a casual who watched it knowing nothing about anime. It got praise from long-term followers of the industry because it had an impact on anime, you obviously wouldn't be able to gleam that from comparing it to western movies and tv.
>>
>>101225206
The Otakus won't be able to maintain the industry forever as it is. This is almost a direct mirror of the game crash of 1980s. Too much shit that copies other shit until there isn't anything worth buying.Thankfully games are in a much better place nowadays, despite what /v/tards will tell you.
>>
>>101225374
"Better than Fractale"
>>
What's the last anime television show Miyazaki has even watched?
>>
>>101224576
Yeah. I mean there's no general standard either, you can have some very realistic anime, you can have anime that is realistic but has fantasy elements, then you can have full blown outlandish stuff. This applies to both looks, content and even method of storytelling. As long as a work has humanity in it, it doesn't matter if it's about cute high school girls or space politics of the far future, it has the proper foundation to be universally appreciated.
It's also funny how in general all the people here crying about "normalfags ruining everything" haven't seen shows like Hyouge Mono or the currently airing Hoozuki, because works rooted in a foreign culture and history that nevertheless are easy to get into are apparently 2hard.
>>
>>101225339
A scapegoat for faggots like you. Now, how about you try a little harder in your explanation?
>>
>>101222030
>Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know
Duh, I want fantasy and likable characters, not reality like those shitty european movies that keep telling boring stories of average people.
>>
>>101225206
Tomino has said very similar things on the subject.
>>
>>101225511
I eagerly await the bubble burst. 3-5 years max.
>>
>>101225436

Wow, a begrudged ex-producer shittalked the industry he quit, this is nothing new and hardly undeniable unbiased proof.
>>
>>101225470
Wow
> plebeians loves Ghibli hack! must be because he is that good
>>
>>101225486
>Whenever someone presents argument X, Y is always the reply
>Therefore Y is wrong
top kek
>>
>>101225470
I couldn't agree more, but what can be done?
>>
Isn't Miyazaki, a film director, criticizing anime, an industry that's 95% TV oriented, about as absurd as someone like John Lasseter complaining about why western cartoons are so shitty? Why the fuck would you even comment about an industry which your involvement in is only vaguely related at best?

"there will never be another TV show like INSERT MOVIE". Well no fucking shit. Television =/= theatre
>>
>>101225470
>Modern anime and manga artists don't draw people
It wasn't that different back then, just saying, not for the vast majority of what was produced.
Majokko megu chan is 40 years old but it could have been made yesterday.
>>
>>101225529
anon, miyazaki he hates anime
>>
>>101225550
For the last time, this is more about characterization than art style or genre. Fantasy works can be realistic, and SoL with average people living average lives can be bland and pointless.
>>
The very people he derides are the people which buy his studio the time it needs to make the world class movies that it (used to) makes semi-annually. He will understand this when he is unable to create anymore, when his son is forced to live up to expectations, and when his studio starts to fail because his son isn't half as good as he is.
>>
Miyazaki seems to forget that art has always fallen into two categories.

Idealized reality.
Stark reality.

This is coming from the same man that hates technology in all its forms.
>>
>>101225511
Videogames are in a load of shit right now too, mostly due to DLC retardation and publishers being reluctant to give new IPs a chance.
>>
>>101225550
>shitty european movies that keep telling boring stories of average people.

There are many people that enjoy shitty japanese shows telling boring stories of little girls.
>>
>>101225465
THIS
Ghibli panders to braindead retards and the worst type of normalfaggot ever
>>
>>101225511
>Too much shit that copies other shit until there isn't anything worth buying

That's not what caused the crash. There was simply too much being made.
>>
>>101225615
He didn't say they're view is wrong. He simply stated that they held that view based upon the evidence presented.

>Top kek
Get out of /a/.
>>
>>101225625
Well, small companies can always purse new fields. This reminds me of the stagnation of American comics with DC and Marve.
>>
>>101225511
>>101225604
Funny, that's what people weer saying years ago when VN/Eroge adaptations were the at their peak.

>>101225571
I never said anything in regards to Tomino's views on the subject, it's just a reaction image.
>>
>>101225681
> reluctant to give new IPs a chance
Every single time someone says this a new IP fails at market because consumers don't want new IPs.
>>
>>101225178
>Its rare to find shows with real character depth that aren't just cliches being used to mimic depth seen in other shows.
Dodge Danpei, Tanken Goblin, Gatenpishi, RPG Densetsu Hepoi and other similar shows of that era were the magnum opus of character development.

Anime has almost always been shitty with a lack of real character depth. That doesn't mean that it can't be enjoyed.

>>101225400
>The ones who realise the decline have started to complain about the state of the industry while the ones who are not,
The ones who complain about the state of the industry are the people who aren't aware that it's as healthy as it's ever been, with greater output and merchandising than ever before, yet they lament the fact that modern anime isn't purely hyperviolence OVAs with that heavily shaded guy with shouldpads raping and beheading a girl.

You see the same shit on forums when people discuss anime, and almost all of them are freeloaders who don't even give back to the industry. They talk about things like how anime is dying, yet they don't even bother looking into anything beyond the latest action anime because of how mature they think it is while they're complaining. The types of shows they like are dying, doesn't mean the industry is. They act like children because the industry isn't catering their freeloading.
>>
>I want 3DPD anime

Go fuck yourself, Miyazaki
>>
>>101225542
Confirmed for coming from IRC. No go back to where you belong.
>>
>>101225681
Not only don't they give new IPs a chance, if by some chance a new IP is established succesfully it also gets run into the ground in record time. See Dead Space.
>>
>>101225248
I avoided limewire back in the day precisely because of that reason. What does the pthc in the filename indicate?
>>
>>101225714
There was too much being made because everybody and their brother just copied games from one another to the point where most people couldn't differentiate between what was good and bad.
>>
>Miyazaki makes a ton of shitty adaptations of other people's work
>"do something new!"
>>
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>>101222030
He's completely right and I'm perfectly okay with it.
>>
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>>101225615
>>
>>101225718
>they're view
Who are view?

Also, nice typical, rushed, angry response, >>101225486
You even pulled the classy 'it's not really me' bit. Well done.

A for effort
>>
>>101222138
Akira is literally the Avatar of anime
>OH SHIT LOOK HOW COOL THE ANIMATION IS
Meanwhile, everything else about the film is lackluster
>>
>>101225767
Explain to me what IRC, in this context, means exactly.
>>
>Studio Ghibli
>Still using the same type of character faces and eyes since the 80's

Yeah, well, that's just like your opinion, man.
>>
>>101222030

Also shading. Keep being in denial, /a/.
>>
>>101225178
It has always been like this.
Saint Seiya and Cap. Tsubasa, two very influential anime, had something more than cliches?

20 years from now people will talk about how things were better when we had stuff like Chihayafuru instead of what is new, and so on.
>>
>>101225843
It's more important because of it's historical relevance and it's popularity outside of Japan. It may seem kind of bad now (and honestly the actual story and characters are) but it was a big deal at the time.
>>
>>101225681
Doesn't mean that games, in general are a load of shit.

Games are less challenging and the popularity of sports games and generic modern military FPS haven't really helped. But games like Last of Us, despite being repetitive (no more so than any old school game that relied on credits to be difficult) showed that storytelling within video games has gotten a lot better over the years, as rare as such titles are.

>>101225789
Let's be honest. He completely fucked The Borrowers and Howl's Moving Castle in the ass with his adaptations. People will praise them because it's Miyazaki, but they're really crappy compared to the books.
>>
>>101225810
I stand at both the top and bottom of the pyramid, both the foundation and focal point. I truly am the king of argument.
>>
>>101222030
Another senile old man spouting bullshit because he is close to RIP, who cares.
>>
>>101225685
>little girls
This is key.
>>
>>101225796
>>>/v/
>>>/co/
>>>/out/
>>
>>101225776

It wasn't about them "copying" each other, it was about there being too much games made period, and the videogame fad was dying out so most people quit. You're just trying to push this narrative to relate it to your "man anime is all the same shit!" opinion. You can easily just refer to the basic economics of it, that there's not enough otakus to purchase all the anime being made, because it's a niche market. But then you'd have to provide more data on the industry to see how well it's actually doing and where it's profit is made.
>>
>>101225825
Sorry but I was >>101225486

Not the other guy you were talking with.
>>
>>101225751
>Funny, that's what people weer saying years ago when VN/Eroge adaptations were the at their peak.

You should take what old Japanese men say with a grain of salt. They are stuck in their old line of thinking and refuse to budge complaining that anime isn't the same as it was 20-30 years ago.

Trying to reason with old Japanese men is like trying to teach your grampa how to use a computer.
>>
>>101225796
so he is saying that anime is bad because women in anime don't look like real life women?

Im sorry Miyasaki san, but I prefer my cartoons not looking like real life at all and prefer wacky/super deformed characters.

had his post refer to story or other factors then maybe I would have given a though, but he is basically preaching "muh graphics"
>>
>>101224320
what is the story behind that picture?
>>
>>101225751
>Funny, that's what people weer saying years ago when VN/Eroge adaptations were the at their peak.
How many years ago? I think that you're either talking out your ass, or that the trend is still continuing and that LN are just what the anime industry moved too after VNs began to be played out. LN's are gonna get burned through quicker as a medium because of the overwhelming mediocrity of the mass majority of them. The better LNs aren't getting adapted, or if they are they're being butchered because the studios want cheap easy cash rather than play the long game and adapt the stories properlyVanandis is going to suck because of this btw.
>>
>>101225936
He's probably the type of dipshit who thinks that hyperviolence OVAs were actually representative of TV anime at the time.
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>>101225957
Good one.
>>
>>101225933
>>>/v/
>>
>>101225965
Well, Japan IS 90% pedophiles after all.
>>
>>101225981
If you say so. At least you managed to calm down enough to spell this time.
>>
>>101222030
>He is completely correct, we'll never see another Akira if japanese animators don't start learning how to draw real people instead of moeblob aliens
>>
>>101225972
>>101226043
This thread is moving fast enough without those kind of shitposts.
>>
>>101225988
>Trying to reason with old Japanese men is like trying to teach your grampa how to use a computer.
The funniest thing is that old Japanese men are just like this, which is why offices in Japan still use things like Windows 95, 98, fax machines and so forth. Old Japs can't adapt and their strong grip on Japan is a part of the reason why their economy has stagnated for decades.
>>
>>101225946

Don't forget Earthsea.

And Nausica.
>>
>>101222030
So the new Miyazaki is Yamakan?
>>
>>101222138
Wasn't reception for Akira at Moonland quite poor?
>>
>>101225946
I strongly disagree about Howl's Moving Castle. I just happened to finish the book today and it was misogynistic, pointless shit.
>>
>>101226053
Want me to show you the >(You) quotations or will you claim MSpaint edits?
>>
>>101224580
thanks for writing this
>>
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>“It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.”

Isn't that the point of anime though? Otherwise why not just watch TV dramas?
>>
>>101226092
And it's so important that we should slow it down?

Look at this thread. It is 100% shitposts.
>>
>>101226052
Most of the world is pedophiles by modern standards. Anything under 20 = pedophilia.
>>
>>101225946
>storytelling
>video games
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>>101226027
Mid 2000s?

And what you said is exactly what I mean.
They exploited one source dry until people no longer gave a shit, and the moved on onto the next thing, the bubble never really"exploded", they changed the air they filled it with before it actually happened.
>>
>>101226170
Well that makes Japan toddlercons.
>>
>>101226133
I don't give a fuck and I'm amazed that you care enough to have responded this much.
>>
How many masterpieces of characters were made in the past?
Like, let's say from 1968 (ashita no joe) to 1995 (EVA).
Let's exclude adaptions from literature and western things, only original anime, manga adaptions and VN/LN adaptions.
>>
>>101225989
Rather than 'right' I should have said 'true', I'm perfectly fine with my anime characters not look/act like real people at all.
>>
>>101225945
Popularity in USA to be precise, other countries had other series.
>>
>>101226213
What about actual toddlercons?
>>
>>101226106
Not really, both are hacks but Miyazaki at lest is good at pandering to normalfaggots and braindead retards while Yamakan is just HUGE failure and spouts same bullshit Miyazaka does while creating tons of so called MOE shows
>>
So, he's mad that anime for the most part doesn't draw nips as the ugly people they generally are? Wonder why...
>>
>>101226148
What is the point of fiction? Isn't it to create characters that are believable enough to make you think they could exist in real life, or rather, in an alternate universe?
>>
>>101226235
I replied... three times now? That's hardly a waste of time by any standard.
>>
>>101226298
if you say so
>>
>>101226207

Same thing every industry does, this is nothing new. I always laugh at people who say "anime is dying!" or try to doomsay because they're bored with their hobby and hate it now. Fuck, even western animation is still fucking going.
>>
Here it is. This is an inside look of the anime industry from the eyes of a production assistant. It seems pretty shitty.

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=463111&show=0
>>
>>101226265
You mean the japanese?
>>
>>101226176
It's way better than save the world/girl from the bad dude and shoot/fight everything that gets in your way, without ever expanding upon that.

I enjoyed things like Final Fight, UN Fighter, Contra, etc. back in the day. But thinking back to it, they weren't that great and even to this day, I don't care about the 'characters', just which looks the coolest to me.
>>
>>101226130
>misogynistic
In which way?
Not doubting or anything, I'm curious.
>>
>>101222030
>the consumers are killing the industry
What a crock of shit. If producers start creating original anime that sells then the whole "problem" will be solved, it's not the consumers' fault that the market just doesn't feature these things. Before you say "Otaku only spend money on cute girl anime" how about you actually make something original that isn't complete garbage for once. You can't rely on the consumers to spark a new trend, that is solely the job of the producers, and until a new trend is set then the consumers are obviously going to stick with the existing trend.
>>
>>101226127
Its not that different from Elfen Lied, GenoCyber and such. And elevens had more than enough of that already by that time.
>>
>>101226337
I do.
>>
>>101225773

Pre-teen hard-core. Had to google that up.
>>
>>101224580
>majority of characters in both anime and manga are walking fucking cliches and tropes.
You can't name a single medium which isn't the same.

>again
It never wasn't.
>>
>>101226240
Please respond.
>>
When are we going to stop the SoL bullshit and go back to mechas like in the 90s?
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>>101226127

Yes, it totally bombed and didn't care about it for years. It's mostly westerners who loved it because violence.
>>
>>101222030
One thing is the true: Moeshit is killing anime.
>>
>>101226207
I agree with your point. But as I said, LNs are going to burn out quicker. What is there to move onto after that? Will Manga make a return as the primary adaption source? I wouldn't really mind it because popular manga generally make at least decent anime(Because manga isn't nearly as niched as VNs or LNs are but thats another discussion). Will studios make more originals(It'll never happen but it'd be my preferred outcome). OR will the bubble simply burst until the next Evangelion(figuratively speaking) pulls the industry out of hell again.
>>
>>101226509
Mechas don't sell. Only little girls.
>>
>>101222587
Same like you; but I only watch BONES, MADHOUSE and I.G animes. Khara for Evangelion
>>
>>101223823
Fedora detected.
>>
>>101226353
By comparison, Naoko Yamada of Kyoto Animation.

>Asking what her typical day was like, the blunt (and inadvertently hilarious) answer was: she gets in at 0930, works, has an hour for lunch, works, then leaves at 1830. This of course was a leader for the question as to whether KyoAni indulges in crunch time, or "killer weeks", which Jonathan explained was almost a policy for studios in Tokyo, with the women and married staff allowed to catch the last train home, while the single men were expected to work through the night.

>And her favourite and least favourite parts of being a director? The best part is meeting people, and having face to face conversations with animators, cameramen and music producers. The worst part is the difficult job of getting the idea she has in her head to the team.

>Beginning with praise for the consistent quality of KyoAni's works, one audience member asked what makes the studio so different to others? A heartfelt thank you followed before a short spell thinking. Ignoring the obvious "boat loads of cash" response, Naoko said that it was likely because the studio had so many departments in one place with animation, colouring and filming (but not music) all under one roof, meaning there was a lot of intense face to face meetings.

Sounds like she enjoys it.
>>
>>101225511
>Thankfully games are in a much better place nowadays, despite what /v/tards will tell you.
/vr/ here, go fuck yourself
>>
>>101226503
If you want a serious discussion about what qualifies as the masterpieces of anime, or, turning points for the industry, or whatever, make a new thread. This is a troll only zone.
>>
>>101226406
>You can't rely on the consumers to spark a new trend
But taking the risk to do something that isn't blatantly pandering and is born out of artistic creativity would be a step forward.
>>
>>101226509
Free market will fix it
>>
Miyazaki doesn't make good movies anymore. Anno agrees don't bother him about it.
>>
>>101226509
When studios start producing good, original mecha anime, which is difficult because it's been done to death.
>>
>>101226509

Mecha never left but Japan has become too depressed by the eternal recession and the neverending cycle of misery that is modern salaryman life to believe in super robots anymore. Super robots thrived when Japan was finally hitting its stride.
>>
>>101226509
If you freeloading faggots actually contributed to the industry, sure. But you don't and then you feel like you have the right to complain about your favourite genre dying.
>>
>>101225773
Pre teen Hard Core

It basically is just the internet code name for Child Porn
>>
>>101226568
>/vr/ here
And into the trash your post goes. Go back to your shitty video games board.
>>
>>101225761
>The ones who complain about the state of the industry are the people who aren't aware that it's as healthy as it's ever been, with greater output and merchandising than ever before, yet they lament the fact that modern anime isn't purely hyperviolence OVAs with that heavily shaded guy with shouldpads raping and beheading a girl.

Why don't you strawman a little harder. Anime is as successful as its ever been, but whos to say down the line, once the studios' methods for easy money burn out. A strong base of creative staff is a much better bet for the future than adapting LNs till Otaku get tired of them. Which will happen eventually if they continue as they are.
>>
>>101226695
Anon, closing your eyes and ears do not render facts untrue.
>>
>>101225625
>but what can be done?
Hire people that have an understanding of animation and art fundamentals in general?

Basically, tell anyone that asks for a job but can't do anything but anime to fuck off
>>
Reminder LNs are cancer
>>
>>101226579
I just want people to show me examples of all the greats anime there were in the past, surely they will be able to name a bunch of them if it was much better back then.
>>
>>101226541
Glad we agree.

Considering that things like Mushishi S2, The Origin, Sidonia, Kyojin and Akame Kill are actually being green-lighted, it might be sing of manga's return, I don't know.

LN garbage is still being adapted, but we're definitively past the days of Shana and Haruhi.
>>
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>>101226567
Thank you based Yamada.
>>
>>101226740
Not with the shitty pay.
>>
>>101226779
Reminder /v/ermin and other types of normalfaggots are cancer
>>
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>>101226509
Don't worry, G-Reko is coming.
>>
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>>101222030
Cry me a river bitch, the industry is better than ever.
>>
>>101225771
>Game does sort of okay
>QUICK QUICK, MAKE IT A TRILOGY!!
>>
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What do you think the next popular genre after SoL will be?

Or we will be in the SoL genre forever?
>>
>>101226740
They can make such demands when they actually start paying their animators a living wage.
>>
>>101226801
I wish Yamada would get her own Free!.
>>
Miyazaki has dementia, nothing new here.
>>
>>101226727
>whos to say down the line, once the studios' methods for easy money burn out
They'll either find a way to change or won't be able to keep up and go bankrupt.

Either way, we win.
>>
>>101226740
Yeah so that noone buys the anime they make, great business idea.
>>
>>101224664
Can we stop using "Otaku" like it's synonymous with "anime fan"?
>>
>>101226737
Not him, but I still don't think that save the girl/world from generic bad dude and fighting/shooting enemies while you scroll across the screen exactly makes for great or compelling stories or exciting gameplay. Challenging because of other constraints and still fun to look back on, but old games aren't exactly fantastic.

I do miss things like Monkey Island though, but the narrative never seemed to be that strong either.

>>101226727
>but whos to say down the line, once the studios' methods for easy money burn out. A strong base of creative staff is a much better bet for the future than adapting LNs till Otaku get tired of them. Which will happen eventually if they continue as they are.
Nobody. But who's to say that is going to happen? For all you know, there are plenty of creative staff that will be able to make the most out of such a collapse. Talk shit after it happens, not before.
>>
Remember when they tried to make a normalfag channel and how it quickly died off because no normal people want to actually watch cartoons?
>>
>>101226879
God I hope not. Can't die fast enough.
>>
>>101226567
You know KyoAni is the exception to the rule? Their animators live like fucking kings compared to just about everyone else.
>>
>>101226791
And like I said, you won't get any examples here.
>>
>>101226879
Serious, not troll answer?
Omnipandering like Hamatora, if you can call it a genre.

Otome adaptions are getting more popular, but they will never be big enough to be "the" and idols anime aren't numerically enough.
>>
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>>101225825
I like how you had an entire argument with the other guy. Nice job.
>>
>>101226793
>Akame Kill

Yeah because generic shounen "shock" guro trash is really creative.
>>
>>101225773
Google it for fucks sake.
>>
>>101226353

While very informative, animation studios being dens of stress and crazy deadlines and low salaries and freelancing and inbetweening outsourcing is pretty much par the course since animation was invented.

It's also not rare for a pretty shitty company in any business to have shitty employees who don't care. It's still just one man's experience. I wonder which studio he was a part of, though.
>>
why do "real" otakus pretend miyazaki is bad? he's probably the most proficient anime director from japan and easily the most valuable
do you feel bad that even the best shows you like are bested by someone who makes stuff that's mostly for young kids? I don't get it
>>
>>101226791
Get the fucking out disgraceful retard, /a/ is not your mother so don't expect spoonfeding, are you perhaps trying to turn this into recommendation thread?get a clue and >>>/out/
>>
>>101227019
I never said anything quality, but it definitive looks like something that wouldn't ave been adapted a couple of years ago.
That's all I'm saying.
>>
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Ghibli a shit. If he's so good why is he dead
>>
>>101226529
>It's mostly westerners who loved it because violence.

Just saying, but I love it for the outstanding quality of animation.
Not that anyone here would know what that is, based on this thread, 90% of /a/ couldn't give less of a fuck about animation quality
>>
>>101222138
>>
>>101226879
It's not so much SoL as a genre as it is LN adaptations as quick source advertisements. Those just usually happen to be harem SoLs, and we can discuss the LN market in a different setting. Fucking Kadokawa has done more damage in that regard once they realized they could print money with Haruhi and the like than anything else.
>>
>>101227010
>How to take a screenshot
>>
>>101226791
>double plural
Mom, I can't english.
>>
Mamoru Oshii once said that Ghibli should be disbanded immediately.
>>
>>101227099
Every year has its generic grimdark edgy adaptation. Not saying it's a bad thing, but you're stupid if you think they aren't a consistent feature of the anime calendar.
>>
>>101227119
Being a pedophile is genetic?
>>
>“Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know.”

>“It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.”

You know, I like Miyazaki and get what he's saying, but I don't see this as a problem. One of fiction's most powerful features is the fact that you can create things that can never exist in real life.

A mary sue character is considered groan-worthy nowadays, but if used right, they can be used as a means to express an idea or push an idea.


I understand the hate when people use mary sue characters lazily, but I like the idea of them in any case, but that's a tangent to what he's saying anyway.

Back to the real point: I think there is value in having both realistic and unrealistic characters in anime. I think it's somewhat foolish and even arrogant to have this

>“You see, whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, it depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, ‘Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life.’”

Kind of thinking. Realism is a fine artistic movement, but it's not the only one around, and we limit ourselves as artists if we just try to mimick reality as well as we can.

The monogatari characters are not realistic humans, but they function as avatars for the whims and thought experiments of Nisio, and thus have a value that some would exalt over realistic characters.

But I get his overall meaning. I just think it's slightly misguided. Anime needs to grow more, and then it'll even out like all the other established mediums. Games and anime are still young and are in a phase where they need to be "low" before they go "high", and I'd say anime is doing better than games.
>>
>>101227019
I'll take a generic shonen anime adaptation over a LN adaptation any day of the week. The latter is just much more likely to be garbage.
>>
>>101226567
Considering that she is the most well paid person there I'm not surprised. Nobody is going to be an ass around their boss, and I'm sure she isn't going to comment on the animators lifestyle at all.

Odds are she is probably disgusted by most of them. Like the article says, there are some who have an actual work ethic and take pride in what they do, but the large majority are just your average otaku.
>>
>>101227119
>1994 was 20 years ago
what the fuck
>>
>>101222030
>“Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know.”
There was Aku no Hana. It bombed.
>>
>>101227119
I wonder what shows Matt is watching this season.
>>
>>101226932
Personally, I don't think videogames have been getting worse or better.

Each generation has a couple of gems floating in a sea of shit.

It's just that when looking back at the past people tend to forget all the terrible movie tie-in platformers and focus on the Marios instead.
>>
>>101227213
2007 was thirteen years ago.
>>
Why do japanese people hate themselves?
>>
>>101227180
And contagious. Now get out of here before you find out.
>>
>>101227130
>Normalfags and entry level retards disagree with that post, therefore its a bait
>>>/reddit/
>>
>>101227187
>>>/gaia/
>>
>>101227216
It's not about art style or attempting to make anime characters look like Japanese people. Read the fucking thread.
>>
>>101226932
I'm talking shit now so I can brag about how hard I called it. Not like any of us can do anything about it.
>>
>>101226864
You are the cancer killing anime, you moeblob eater.
>>
>>101227288
Weird mixture of nationalism and shit society.
>>
>>101227288
/a/ hates 3d, japan hates 3d too, not only themselves
>>
>>101226932
>Videgoames are about the narrative
I don't know what I expected from /a/ of course, this thread has taught me that /a/ doesn't care about animation quality, but they also don't care about gameplay in videogames. I guess its all about story to you guys

So why the fuck aren't you reading books?
>>
>>101227024
He said he was in a studio that we'd probably recognize, however I can't imagine that studio being all that successful.
>>
>>101227141
>quick source advertisements
This. THIS.
My biggest issue with anime right now is that it seems it cannot tell a fucking story from introduction to conclusion a large majority of the time. Too much stuff is stuck in the eternal cycle of introductions and tacked on ending points because the series it's based off of is still on going.

Not to mention that production committees rarely see an inclination on adapting whole works. If they don't think more anime will move more units of light novels or manga, welp no more 2nd/3rd/final seaons for us.
>>
>>101226568
What, does my statement of fact hurt you /vr/? You guys are really just a more condensed version of /v/.
>>
>>101227175
>Miyazaki hates Patlabor

Fuck him.

That interview really shows what Miyazaki is like though, the old Japanese businessman.
>>
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>>101227343
You mean keeping it alive.

That is a fact, not an opinion.

Deal with it.
>>
>>101226961
And KyoAni is that one studio that most often comes under attack from trolls and edgy fedora tipping manbabies who cry about how there isn't enough anime aimed at adults any more and that the industry is forcing a certain type of show to be created rather than whatever the fuck studios want.

Fuck, I'm sure I remember another director (could have still been Yamada) saying that fanservice isn't even necessary. The fanservice comes in the love we pour into our characters and bringing them to life and it shows because KyoAni do whatever the fuck they want these days and their products have (in my opinion) more soul than a lot of other shows, even if they're lamblasted as being the overlord of SoL moeshit.

>>101227288
A society that promotes collectivity over individuality is going to bring about a general hatred for your individual self.
>>
everyone in this thread:

>>>/MAL/
>>>/ANN/
>>>/GAIA/
>>
>>101222030
He is right. Thing is if they don't do that, they don't get their monet back.
>>
>>101226846
I agree, LNs are still cancer.
>>
>>101226297
To functionally aid escapism.

I consume anime/manga to forget the real world, not have some sort of pseudo-delusion about it.
>>
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>>101222030
>we want the normalfag audience

Miyazaki really needs to complain every month anew, doesn't he?
>>
>>101226727
>>Production costs have shot through the roof
>>80% of shows are unprofitable
>>17% break even or make little money
>>3% make money and get sequel after sequel
>>This is your idea of sucessfull

lel
>>
>>101226793
>Sidonia
>Please be good CG, Please be Good CG, Please be good CG.

Seriously, I hope they're taking so long on it because its going to be awesome.
>>
>>101227474
Truth doesn't become any less true through repitition.
>>
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http://wiki.evageeks.org/Statements_by_Evangelion_Staff#Hideaki_Anno:_Ghibli_ga_Ippai_Liner_Notes

>I wonder if Miya-san and his people are familiar with that feeling of despair. Perhaps they don't want to show that anguish to other people. I think they specifically don't want to display the negative things called self-loathing and complexes to others. That's why Studio Ghibli's works can't show anything but superficial happiness and a reproduction of reality with all the dirty things omitted. A fiction that imitates reality, and nothing more than a single dream. I suppose that is the governance of entertainment. And I think that that is one of the reasons that Studio Ghibli's works are safely watchable, brand name creations.

>I have no intention of denying that. All of Studio Ghibli's works are top level creations. But, I can't help but feel that something is missing. This is because, although the technique is there, I can no longer feel "blood", the "blood" that is surely flowing within everyone. I wonder when that happened? Studio Ghibli's works have, for me, become things that doesn't possess the image of "Anime", but rather of the so-called Japanese cinema, in other words, the Japanese movies that have now lost all their energy. That may be the reason that I feel that something is missing.
>>
>>101227343
The only way to objectively measure how much is a group helping the industry is by measuring how much money they contribute to it.
And going by the sales of most west pandering anime, you don't help much.
>>
>>101227388
>Not reading the source material to finish the story

full retard.
>>
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>anime fans
finally someone uses the term correctly. eole tend to forget that "fan" means "fanatic", ie someone pathologically obsessed with something. it is not the same as just "liking things".
>>
>>101227460
That is not mutually exclusive with having good characterization, quite the contrary. Otherwise your escapism barely lasts 20 minutes and is forgotten the next.
>>
>>101227432
>The fanservice comes in the love we pour into our characters
We all know Yamada is a raging lesbo and Utsumi is a perennially horny fujo who likes pink male underwear.
>>
>>101227474
He's right though. You don't get rich on your loyal fanbase.

Loyal fanbase provides a steady but small income, but if you want fat stacks of cash you need to appeal to everyone.
>>
>>101227497

That's how most industries work.
>>
>>101227372
Gameplay in most games has always been shit. Unless you think bashing A and B in different combinations while you're punching and kicking a spiky haired punk constitutes as good gameplay. Same goes for modern games where it's just button prompts all over.

Both are equally shit. At least one will have better story than the other.

>>101227337
I spend a lot on things I like and such franchises are getting bigger and bigger. I don't give a fuck because the things I love are getting my money and that's fine by me. I don't expect them to last forever, but I will enjoy them while I can. Meanwhile, you can be a bitter faggot about the state of an industry you seem to hate.
>>
>>101227175
To be fair, I kind of agree. Ghibli's been creatively floundering for a while and there's basically nobody to replace either Miyazaki or Takahata at the heights of their careers.

And don't say Hosoda as he's a mini version of Miyazaki. His best days are gone and now he's just doing things with little risk.
>>
>>101227509
TOLD
>>
>>101227509
Was this pre or post Anno depression?
>>
>>101227509
Anno's right you know. Part of the appeal of anime is that you can feel it was made by people who like anime, people like you and me, who love mecha fights, chuuni shit, tsunderes, ridiculous dialogue and plot developments, and so on. People that do not try to be holier-than-thou. And that's a good thing.
>>
>>101227432
KyoAni pretty much exists in a bubble and hardly influences much of the industry. Everyone just sees how much Lucky Star and K-ON sold and gets upset about it out of context. The most "harm" they've done is probably Haruhi, but that was almost entirely Kadokawa's fault for basically changing their business plan to attempt to emulate its success as much as possible.

But now they are trying to copy Kadokawa and other LN publishers and that kind of makes me upset. I hope they try and actually establish decent franchises in the future over shit like KnK and Free!
>>
>>101227516

>actively supporting anime that's bereft of any merit
>calling expertly made anime with actual substance "west pandering"

why do you even watch movies? just play videogames instead you pleb
>>
>>101227502
>Good GCI
It won't be.

However, I'd much rather have a full-on CGI adaptation with mediocre animation (what we're going to get) as opposed to a 2D adaptation with god-awful CGI shoehorned in.
Honestly, I'm happy how it turned out.

Now that we're on the subject, why it it going to be full CGI in the first place?
>>
>>101226911
Well, now that I think about it, I do win either way. All the studios I care about have suffered in recent years because they haven't just adapted LNs.

>>101227497
What are you talking about?
>>
>>101227391
>does my statement of fact hurt
I don't remember any of those in your post.
Just some pleb that knows nothing about videogames spewing shit opinions. I started playing games on my Amiga 500, and am now a collector. I play games across all genres, and even make my own games occasionally.

Videogames these days are shit, and the only console that actually has games anymore in the Wii U.

We are at a point where "Videogames" are all about Marketing, not actual gameplay.

If you're into AAA garbage like EA games or games from Activision, then you're allowed to have your own opinion. Just don't pretend that you aren't a complete fucking plebian when it comes to videogames.
>>
>>101227509
>I'm sure it will be a fight if I say so, but, his mission in history has ended. Speaking from my experience in watching (his works), I think he peaked with Conan the Future Boy or Lupin III, the Castle of Cagliostro. After he moved to Ghibli, (things started) to decline. This has been the ten years in which the substance of the works declined, while the quality of them improved. But I think of him as a lucky man, since he has done everything (he wanted to do).
>>
>>101227388
>shitty half-done adaptations right now

But it's always been like that. At least we don't have the 80+ episode generic episodic no-plot shounens being made. Or 1-episode manga adaptation OVA's which are literally just extended PVs.
>>
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>>101227554
You're right. Though I don't think a character has to necessarily believable to have good characterization. However, I can't think of any examples at the moment, and my favorite characters are indeed believable.
>>
>>101227155
I know. I decided to leave it in just to give someone a laugh.
>>
>>101227568
And this is why I love her and KyoAnal. I don't really care what other people think unless they derail good threads with their shitspouting.

>>101227698
And yet their products are still the #1 target here (and other places) for being moeshit and such and driving the industry into what they see as a state of ruin because it doesn't cater to their bratty worldview where everyone has to have the same tastes.
>>
>>101227509
>muh despair
>quoting Hideaki "Master Hack" Anno

lel, how's that full of "blood" Rebuild working out again?
>>
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>>101227509

>There are too many painful things for people to go on living in reality. Thus, humans run and hide in dreams. They watch films as entertainment. Animation, as a means to enjoy everything in a pure, fake world, is a realization of dreams and has become entrenched in film. In short, it is a thing where even coincidences are arranged and everything judged cinematically unnecessary can be excised.

>The negative feelings of the real world are no exception. If the director so desires, even malice toward others could be introduced straight into film. I guess that's one of the attractive things about anime. Changing the tribulation of reality into dreams and conveying that to the people... is that what our work is? For the sake of people who forget reality until the bill comes due, who want to devote themselves to happy fallacies. I guess that's our job in the entertainment and service sector.
>>
>>101227707
I never said anime with substance and west pandering are synonymous. That's your implication, which means you close yourself off to anything else.
Why don't you support things you like?
You do know anime is a market and will only move with a market force behind it.
>>
>>101227509
There will never be another Princess Mononoke.
>>
>>101227716
Not him, but tell me of some classics. And you better not say shit like Leisure Suit Larry, Chaos Engine, or whatever the fuck else that was on the AMIGA because most of those games were absolute dog shit.
>>
>>101227583
Oh goodness me, you really are just terrible at videogames aren't you?

>all games are just bashing A and B
And all anime is just emotionless nips staring at the camera, grunting, and twitching their eyes and mouth.

>implying the story matters at all in videogames

Gameplay > Atmosphere > Music > Story > Graphics
>>
>>101223297
> Having stupid anime fans does nothing to damage the craft besides provide money for shitty talent. The more anime fans, the more money available for ALL animators.

Except retarded fans only buy retarded shit. Which means retarded shit is the only thing which sells.
>>
>>101227722
I just read that interview yesterday. Very interesting, though I don't find what he says to be very surprising.
>>
>>101227509
#rekt
To tell the truth, Miyazaki doesn't try to support the industry from the inside, he makes himself an alien to it, even more than Disney with the rest of western animation.
>>
>>101227723
Most people aren't even aware of what good animation is. I see people tout DBZ as having good animation when it was stills with blurred lines for limbs, repeated frames, nothing but shockwaves, etc. and then they say that modern animation is shit. And DBZ is one of the better examples out there.
>>
>>101222030
>It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans
Most accurate statement I've seen or heard all day.
Now, back to my moe shit.
>>
>>101227876
Depends on what kind of game you want to make though. There's no such thing as one archetypical perfect game.
There are many good RPGs and they would be shit without story. Then there are many great strategy games where story takes a backseat.
>>
Yes, I know that the main reason I watch cartoons is so I can see people depict things that I can see everywhere else in the world.

Miyazaki is a fucking retard and hasn't made a good anime in a decade.
>>
>>101227723
I was referring to TV anime for the most part there, but yes, the 80s were rife with that sort of thing. Maybe it feels more pronounced now that we get everything that comes out.
>>
>>101227716
>We are at a point where "Videogames" are all about Marketing, not actual gameplay.
The majority of videogames have always been about marketing, with a few games here and there made for other reasons.

You're just ignoring all the shit videogames of the past while also ignoring all the good videogames of today.
>>
>>101227987
>Miyazaki is a fucking retard and hasn't made a good anime in a decade.
Do you feel better about yourself for holding such a brave and controversial opinion?
>>
Anime is a highly niche "genre" medium. It could be doing a lot to appeal to more demographics to help itself, but there's no reason to abandon your core audience in the process. Unfortunately, this always tends to happen when industries try to branch out.

At least it's doing better than comic books.
>>
>>101227812

I can assure you that whatever other shit you're trying to push has less merit than the worst flicks from miyazaki. that's how hilariously superior he is to most anime directors
a market will thrive on shit if you buy it and watch it, I'd rather have no anime than an ocean of dreck
>>
>>101227876
>Oh goodness me, you really are just terrible at videogames aren't you?
Yeah, because I think there's an art to moving a joystick slightly as I try to 1CC R-Type? That doesn't take much 'skill' either. I could say the same thing about many other genres. Being good at video games doesn't take much if you have the slightest bit of hand-eye coordination. Even shit like Quake 3 Arena, which gets touted for its high level of skill, was easy as fuck to dominate pubs back in the day and the only challenge was the upper decile of people who played competitively.

>And all anime is just emotionless nips staring at the camera, grunting, and twitching their eyes and mouth.
I won't deny that. It doesn't stop me from enjoying it though. Unlike you, I'm not in an absolute state of denial about media I enjoy.
>>
>>101226130

Seriously what? The whole point of the novel is that Sophie can actually do shit if she stops talking herself down all the time. Hardly misogynistic.
>>
>>101228066
Then stop watching anime altogether, nobody is forcing you.
Or send a huge paycheck to your favorite anime studio.
>>
>>101228041
Not him.

It's definitively not in /a/, though.
>>
>>101228066
>I wish a medium I like would die!

Now you sound like you're from another board.

Do you even like anime to begin with? When's the last time you enjoyed yourself watching one?
>>
>>101227940
>but... muh warmth
I hate it when people ardently defend cel animation as god and digipaint as shit, when each has their own pros and cons.
>>
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>>101227474
Let him say what he wants or he will retire...again.
>>
>>101228043
I gave up on CB like a decade ago.
Is it getting better?
>>
>>101228041

Are you new to /a/? That's a common opinion.
>>
>>101228066
>I'd rather have no anime than an ocean of dreck
Oh fuck you, a lot of fans of niche genres don't like how things are right now, it's only you "I like mature anime for mature people" that actively spit on the industry and want it to die when you have it much better than most of the rest.
>>
>>101228168
Exactly.
>>
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>>101228093
>Being good at video games doesn't take much if you have the slightest bit of hand-eye coordination
>>
>>101222030
>Guy who makes anime for casuals.
>Wants all anime fans to be casuals.
Nothing to see here, just a money grubbing nip who wants more people to buy his shit.
>>
>>101228193

CB has an extremely, extremely small market. Generally anything outside of capes is done by manga instead and thus manga has way more fans, so it doesn't even try to branch out. There is also an independent scene, though, which anime is too expensive to have.
>>
>>101228282
I lose plenty at video games. But then I try again and again until I get 'good' at it.

Enjoy your denial and strawman.
>>
>>101228041
tumblr please leave
>>
>>101226365
>Final Fight, UN Fighter, Contra
>they weren't that great

>Contra
>not great to this day

Go fuck yourself in the ass with a pointy stick you piece of shit hornse's ass.
>>
>>101222533
Actually, I'd rather see non-fans working on something rather than fanboys who are just content to wallow in their beloved fandom. A person who's critical will at least try something different.
>>
Why do we care what Miyazaki thinks? He's an old fool who can't keep his own political standpoints out of art. Granted that most artists have license to incorporate some of their opinions into their works, but Miyazaki just shovels it. He even ruins adaptations because of this. It's not right.
>>
>>101228385
I was actually not making a comment nor an argument, just a joke. Stop taking things this seriously.
>>
>>101228520
My bad.
>>
>>101228104

I'll keep watching and I'll keep saying how inferior it is to other forms of cinema, thank you very much

>>101228122

I watched 5 centimeters per second recently if that counts, probably the worst movie I've seen so far this year. if hilariously sentimental dreck could speak this would be its voice

>>101228248

plebs needs to be culled
>>
>>101227129
It's called "forced animation" around here.
>>
>>101222138
baito kun is that you?
>>
>>101228429
>I'd rather see non-fans working on something rather than fanboys who are just content to wallow in their beloved fandom
That happened in the movie industry with Alien Resurrection (the 4th movie) with a director that hated sci-fi.

Alien Resurrection is universally seen as the 2nd shitty entry in the franchise and in a level that makes Alien3 look good
>>
MIyazaki doesn't make anime. He made japanese animation. It's like comparing Snow White and the Seven Dwarves with Adventure Time.
>>
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Heh
>>
>>101227583
>>101228093
Just as an aside, gameplay isn't about the inputs, it's about what you do with the actions you as the player are granted, within the scenarios the game presents, combined with how you perceive the game world.

It's much like how animation can be about the skillful usage of symbolism (especially visual symbolism) and timing to present an idea. Less so about how cute the voice actor is. Even less so about the voice actor's looks.
>>
>>101223034
>Kon
>good
>>
>>101228429
I've seen enough anthology series to know that giving people a cart blanche is generally not a good idea, and just because it's different doesn't mean it's good. Your experiment would likely result in 50% shit, 40% meh, and 9% good and 1% great... which is more or less what we get now anyway.

>>101228282
>>101228093
It takes exponentially more time/effort/talent to get more and more better at games. I have no idea if that was the point of your argument.
>>
>>101228633
Oh god, not this shit gain.
>>
>>101228657
I thought le anime saving trigger was also an obscure company.
>>
>>101228346
>Guy that felt offended by the opinions of one of the biggest figures in anime
>Proceeds with a poor attempt at disqualifying him with baseless insults

Nothing to see here, just another mindless drone getting butthurt
>>
>>101228657
>with the exception of SNK and Kill la Kill
I was actually with him until there. And I like KLK.
>>
>>101228727
>him
>>
>>101228657
>SnK
>KlK
>Good
>>
>>101228619
And Batman and Robin was made by a man who loved Batman. The Dark Knight was made by a guy who was sick and tired of the comic tropes and did everything he could to distance himself from them. Which one of these films is utter shite?

Yes, Resurrection was bad, but did anyone truly have hope for any sort of good film post Aliens?
>>
>>101228688
If most "serious" gamers weren't mongoloids, you'd have a point.
>>
>>101224986
> tsundere abusive loli
I wonder who'll voice that...
>>
>>101228792

Dark Knight was terrible.
>>
>>101228792
>The Dark Knight was made by a guy who was sick and tired of the comic tropes and did everything he could to distance himself from them

But he did not hate Batman nor the comics. There's a big difference.
>>
>>101228657
>nearly all anime is moe shit because I don't bother doing any more than a cursory glance at the hottest shows of the season
Fuck. YOOOOOOU
>>
>>101228792
>>101228855
Begins was OK, Dark Knight was mediocre at best (Only worth it for Ledger), Dark Knight Rises was just awful.
>>
>>101228846
HanaKana! KugiRie's monopoly on tsun abusive lolis is over.
>>
>people who don't like anime should make anime
>/v/ agreeing with him
>even though they rage at companies and feminists who are trying to change videogames
>>
>>101227866
Shuffle Puck Cafe, Barbarian 2, Rolling Thunder and Bards Tale were my favourites as a kid

>Not games from the Amiga
Why not? It was a fine little machine, but whatever.

My current favourite games are Never Winter Nights 2, Dwarf Fortress, Boktai 2, Gradius 3, Space Station 13, Startropics, Monster Hunter Freedom Unite, Plane Scape: Torment, Super Metroid/Metroid Prime, Killer 7, Might and Magic, Fire Emblem 4, Majora's Mask, Terranigma, Dark Crypt, E.V.O: Search for Eden, Brain Lord, Comix Zone, Ys, The Dark Spire, I dunno, I don't really have favourites I guess, just games I really enjoyed playing
>>
>>101228855
FOR YOU
>>
>>101228829
The disposition of gamers wasn't being argued there though.
>>
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>>101228657

Things will never change. People will be saying this same shit 10 years from now.
>>
>>101228760
There are no girls on the internet, they are all on /a/.
>>
>>101227672
You and me anon, you and me.
>>
I thought we got past the idea that art has to be realistic hundreds of years ago but I guess dirty nips haven't quite reached that level yet. If anything the more realistic art is the most boring because you could literally see the same thing going outside. Creating an experience that can not exist in real life is much more valuable.
>>
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Anno said the same thing years ago. Bottom right.
>>
>>101225718
No, he made a shitload of assumptions and strawmanned the opposing argument in a clear attempt to condescend.
>>
>>101229008
It's like people saying capecomics are stagnated. Just look at Marvel and DC and see the wonderful and creative stuff they're making
>>
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>>101229038
>Guaranteed Replies
>>
>>101227672
I'd rather have a good story than a hugbox. Dammit people, anime is the most creative medium we've got at our disposal! We should make the most of it rather than produce naught but garbage with the occasional gold.
>>
>>101228022
>while also ignoring all the good videogames of today.
Please, enlighten me, I'm not familiar with these "good videogames of today"

Can you list a few of the best games released since 2010?
>>
>>101229072

That's not exactly the same thing. And Anno actually likes anime being anime, Miyazaki hates it.
>>
>>101229111
>Spec Ops: The Line
>>
>>101229008
Accel World was a push in the reverse... what the fuck am I reading?

Fun thing with these arguments is you can date exactly when people got into anime by when they claim anime started to suck. It's usually 3 years or so.
>>
>>101228592
>"forced animation"
Is that what /a/ calls tradionally done, hand painted cells?
>>
>>101229110
I would love an anime that was literally about hugs.
>>
>>101229110

But "we're" not producing anything, anon.
>>
>>101228981
Actually, it is. If the average gamer is basically a walking turd, it really doesn't take much, relative to doing things of actual rigour, to reach the upper echelons if you have a semblance of talent. You see all these popular YouTubers who are praised for being skilled and earned a gorillion dollars out of it, have legions of fanboys to boot and they're barely what you'd call remarkable people. You see their videos and their thought processes, reaction and acuity isn't generally that good.
>>
>>101229072
I don't know why,but everytime I see the phrase "[X] is worth it because is the reason we're are having this conversation" I always feel incredibly irritated.
>>
>>101229008
>SnK
>strong writing
>>
>>101222030
I'm glad he's retired and now slowly falling into the realm of irrelevance. Yeah, he made a few good movies and his last one was supposedly his best, but he's out of touch.
>>
>>101229110
>anime is the most creative medium we've got at our disposal
No, no it isn't. No medium is the most creative.
>>
>>101229243
Put your faith in Hosoda. Or Shinkai, if he makes a nature documentary with David Attenborough.
>>
>>101229008

The first words literally made me choke on my food in laughter. It's just so FUNNY
>>
>>101229110
>We should make the most of it rather than produce naught but garbage with the occasional gold.
Plus this can also be applied to every creative medium out there.
>>
>>101229167
1 shitty game is all you can come up with?
>>
>>101229167
Not him but while The Line was good, it didn't go hard enough. It should have delved even further in the themes it was handling, like at the most basic level take into consideration people who wouldn't use the WP and instead shoot all the enemies.

And even then, the game is mainly saved by the story and atmosphere. The squad-based gameplay is absolutely abysmal compared to Republic Commando (though still better than cola duty). It's great for today's standards, but wouldn't fly as it is in the first part of the decade.
>>
>>101229008
From the same writer

>Despite a few minor issues, Blood-C proves to be a fantastic experience. The setting and the premise are fantastic, and the general pace is perfect for a series of its type. It’s a title that really shows CLAMP’s incredible talent, and should be a welcome addition to anybody’s collection.
>>
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>>101229417
Confirmed for elaborate ruse.
>>
>>101229283
>faith
>Hosoda
>Shinkai
Are you serious? Shinkai can't do anything outside of his safe-zones and Hosoda outright doesn't take risks anymore. They'll be ok directors, but putting them in with the likes of Miyazaki, Takahata or Dezaki or whoever is a joke.
>>
>>101229167
>>101229364
>>101229111
>>101228022
>>101227716
>>101227391
>>101226568
Get the fuck back to /v/.
>>
>>101229417
I'd laugh if I didn't know they were serious.
>>
>>101229246
Anime the most creative medium at the storyteller's disposal because the only limits they have are the limits of pen and ink. Which is to say, none that aren't physically impossible.

A film would have to spend billions in CGI to create a new world, but in anime, it's not that difficult.

Giant robots? Easy peasy. Hideous Lovecraftian monsters that shift and pulsate as they ooze across the ground? No sweat.

It's why I love anime, because it can be -anything- if it ever bothered to stop sticking to the same tired tropes.
>>
>>101229195
I feel as though your sample size is small and pretty skewed (both in creator and audience).
>>
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>>101229466
>doesn't take risks
>risks
>>
>>101229111
I guess I'll humor you and list a few:
Wargame: Airland Battle
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Hotline: Miami
Endless Space
Batman: Arkham City
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Mark of the Ninja
Red Orchestra 2

I could go on, but that's what immediately springs to mind post-2010.
>>
>>101228346

I love to play the "who has more merit" game with people who lambast miyazaki. it's always hilarious because you can never be sure what route they'll be taking. do they feel affirmed by eva? will they drop the kon? or maybe some mediocre madhouse gem? the opportunities are limitless
>>
>>101229593
>bamham
lol
>>
>>101229542
I can't tell if you're being ignorant, weeabo, troll, or some combination.

>>101229589
Everything since Baron Matsuri and Tokikake has been pretty safe.
>>
>>101229542
This is true, that's the beauty of animation. And I think we'd actually get massive progress if buying non-licensed anime wasn't borderline impossible (economically speaking) outside of Japan and wasn't still extremely costly inside Japan.
If only people could be somehow enticed to buy the anime too and not just the manga when applicable, while lowering disc prices into affordable levels.
>>
>>101229008
I haven't seen Accel World yet but isn't all the director has done is moe shows?
>>
>>101229593
I would add the following:
Journey
Monaco
Bastion
Dark Souls

I might even be tempted to add Broken Age to that, but it's a bit early to call, plus some people don't consider point-and-click adventure games to be video games.
>>
>>101222030
Just die already you old cunt
>>
>>101229542
One could argue that books are better because they're more efficient and iterate more quickly.

But hey, if you're giving the argument that it has tons of vectors of expression, then video games handily beat it, considering it gives you active interaction.
>>
>>101227716
You take your own subjective taste and project the lack of what you used to love as the industry turning to shit. I don't play EA games nor do I play games by activision. I do enjoy triple AAAs but only the ones with more than a year or two between installments. In a few years I'll be an indie developer working in the industry. You can feign greater knowledge all you like, but gaming is a stronger, more versatile medium than it was 30 years ago, and your rose tinted goggles don't change that.
>>
>>101229101
>> guaranteed replies
> only reply
That anon can probably sue somebody.
>>
>>101230051
Yeah, but that's best for atmospheric experiences. Getting into the world. Where the player IS the story and it's driving force.

Anime allows for the telling of a concise, clearly written narrative that the viewer can only watch. I love games, but movies are best for telling the story that the creator wants to tell.
>>
>>101230051
People can't argue anything of the sort because all of this is a futile attempt at quantifying subjective taste.
>>
>>101230200
Counterpoint: Shadow of the Colossus. You're clearly being told Wander's story and you have no authoritative choice over his fate. However, you're put in his shoes such that you experience his ability to act and the extent to which he struggles is enhanced by this effect.

At no point is the player able to decide which direction the story goes.
>>
>>101230405
Hm. Well, hush my mouth, I guess.
>>
Aren't Sci-Fi otaku the reason anime is even relevant in the west? You know, the Gundam series, Yamato/Starblazers, the horribly editec Mospeda/Macross/Southern Cross western release, the Harlock series. Stuff made by otaku derived from things that were considered otaku and not your yearly liberal pandering whinefests you call movies?
>>
>>101230491
Games also have the opportunity of delivering on generic stories. Here's a free, critically acclaimed example: Passage.

Try it out and you'll see what I mean. Protip: You don't always have to get the girl.
>>
>>101230747
>Passage
>game

Press right to win is gaming now? Wow.
The most pretentious shit I've ever seen after Fez.
>>
>>101226104
to be fair though it was his son who fucked earthsea
>>
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Is that a cigarette?



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