Guide (Start here):
#l/a/nguage on irc.rizon.net
So I breeze through grammer or should I take my time with it?
I'd say breeze through it and start reading to get used to it.
Anyone else trying out rote memorization? It's not quite actual production, but it seems to work and make the real thing a little easier. Not to mention the cringe from dropping samurai movie lines and singing along to the catchiest pop punk OPs I can find is more thrilling than mugging a dude in the street.
>Anyone else trying out rote memorization
I was actually talking more about actively memorizing and recalling entire paragraphs and pages. I'm working on akazukinchan right now. むかし、むかし...
What are you learning by rote, perry-san? Any tips or tricks you'd like to share for skillful oration that go beyond the old adage of 'practice makes perfect'?
I don't see how rote would be more efficient than srs outside of kana.
It forces you to produce more than just a single sentence and gives you a deeper link to words and grammar. I look at it as I don't truly understand something unless I can repeat it verbatim and reword it from there.
Sure, you know that いぬ is dog, but can you explain that it's a species of domesticated canid known for it's symbiotic relationship with humans like you can in english?
I don't know how to say symbiotic.
>it is symbiotic relationship
You should stick to Japanese.
Bitch, I've been reading Joyce and can't recognize typos anymore. T'were a mere slip of the digit ye pedantical mongrel dog.
how can i know 空 means から and not そら in this situation?
Same way you know レン is Len and not Ren.
You don't unless the author specifies.
Is there anything in japanese that approaches the limits of the language like Joyce or Tolkien?
Anything written by anon in the DJTs.
There has to be something infinitely pretentious yet somewhat profound, but I don't know where to find it because 2ch is more pleb then reddit and their opinions on anything are painful to read.
I dropped studying for almost a year. I wish to restart my Anki deck, but it still has cards with month-long review waits. How do I reset it?
I've heard of people describing pretentious as fuck VN's that go out of there way to use the most obscure kanji, and in some cases make up their own kanji, but I couldn't tell you any examples from personal experience. There's always classical texts too.
Just fail the ones you don't remember and start them over. Everything you do remember is clearly there to stay.
あ、そうっか うん、思ったとおり間違いだらけやけどなんとかぎりぎり合格した 嬉しいっていうよりほっとしたな
Are these threads getting smaller?
ああ、N1やけど、合否判定検索してみたら別にぎりぎりじゃなかったな・・・ 意外と低かった 俺の総合得点は134点やった うまいとは言えないが、まあ合格したからいいや そっちは？
>doing well with my japanese
>suddenly kanji and vocab from MONTHS ago pop up
>only remember meaning and/or reading for a little over half of them
Guess it's time to kill myself
何だろうと思って辞書を引いてみたら、なんと「immortal mountain wizard」だそうだ
>「immortal mountain wizard」
Alright DJT i've hit a wall here.
So i've started learning this language about a month ago, and I have the kanas down nearly perfectly. I have all the tools I need (Anki, IME, Genki, etc.), i've read the basic stuff on kanjidamage and i've watched Tae Kim's videos.
The problem is, I honestly don't know where to go from here. There's grammar, then kanji, then definitions, then reading practice, and so on. There's so much shit to do now. The stuff in the OP says to do everything concurrently, but i'm worried that trying to divide and conquer will just end up with me getting overwhelmed and giving up. My indecisiveness with this issue has led me to make no actual progress in two weeks now, and I need to get my shit back together pronto, but I still don't know where to start.
So I ask you guys.
What's a good place to continue from here that can be done on its own for a while and easily lead me into doing other things once I get more used to things? At this rate i'm never going to get anywhere on my own, so I need some advice. It's not that I feel these things will be too difficult, I just fear that i'd get overwhelmed trying to cover so many things at once.
Get a textbook.
Grab Genki or something. The textbooks have all the content laid out for you to do. There is reading, writing and listening. Even conversation exercises for you to do. (Get someone to do them with you on Skype.)
Textbooks have been made especially for beginners and to cover everything in a logical way. I think breaking it up is a super bad idea.
Alright, I have Genki, but I don't know any Japanese speakers to practice with.
You're surrounded by us amateurs.
S-so you're saying I should add people from DJT to practice conversation with?
I ain't gonna be anybody but anon-kun, but you can try writing shit here, and I and others may help or correct you if you want.
No you can practice right here, just like I am.
Which version should I use when asking what is the pronunciation of a kanji character?
Does the last version have more of an authoritative tone than polite request?
Also, for the record, my main focus is being able to simply read japanese. Writing and speaking it aren't my biggest concerns right now. With that in mind, is there anything I should prioritize while learning?
Vocabulary, grammar, and reading.
Study kanji if it will help you. Some get by fine without it, others like to study them.
Alright, thanks guys. Hopefully I can streamline this shit a little better now and get myself back on track.
I do believe that's an even more casual and rude way of saying it...
Nonsense. Are you calling Knuckles rude? His kindness and respect for all living creatures are boundless.
so after downloading anki what am i meant to do here to learn hiragana
>swollen or cancerous spleen
You shouldn't rely so much on your IME's kanji convertor.
It really depends on who you're talking to and how much respect you want to show them.
If you wandering around the street lost and want to ask a stranger for directions, 教えていただけませんか is appropriate (you would want to include a すみません as well). If you're talking to your friend you might just say なんですか (or just なんだ). If you're posting in a Q&A forum, 教えてください is fine, although you can be more polite if you wish.
Buy tracing paper, tape it to the screen and then trace the drawing.
There's some tutorial videos on Anki on youtube, but using anki for learning kana will probably take you longer than just using realkana.
say the answer or what you think it is, if its right, hit good. if its wrong hit again.
the little numbers under the the "Again, good, easy" is the time till you see it again.
Looks like we got ourselves a badass over here
How do you get diacritics on the iphone kana keyboard?
What's the word for "censored (content)"? I think it's literally something like "modified", but I can't remember and can't find it in any of the dictionaries I've tried.
So thats why the Japanese culture favors conformance over individuality
How did you freeze your dick in the first place?
Frosty the Snowman doujin where
Any idea of a children's show sesame street style that can be useful for "not studying"?
Plebeian is strong in this one.
Oh shit, the iceman cometh
Theres japanese dubbed sesame street.
that was magical.
Is it an option with Rikaisama or Anki that allows you to set up the audio fields correctly when doing the real time import? I want the [sound: .mp3] in there without having to manually do it.
Stop owning iFag products and the problem will magically go away.
My phone plan said I could get either an outdated iPhone or one of those massive Samsung galaxies for free. For me, a phone's portability is more important than overall functionality, and I want something that'll fit in a pocket. I don't use a phone for a whole lot. So instead of shitposting maybe you could either not post or help me out.
You got hella screwed. My Samsung fits in my pocket just fine.
I don't know how to help you, I'm sorry.
But 発音 also means pronunciation right? In what instance is 発音 used if 漢字の読み方 is the correct way to say kanji's pronunciation?
Use the Japanese romaji keyboard.
There is because I have it set it up like that. Dont' remember how and not at my PC though.
Could you post on it later? The only thing I could get on it was this brilliant koohii user who figured it out and gave this valuable info:
>EDIT3: Nevermind, I'm a genius.
I'll do it when I'm home, which should be in about an hour.
Excellent, thank you.
Why does Japan allow lolicon, is there some historical precedence?
Yes, there actually is.
For the first time since Thanksgiving I am caught up on my reviews. I'm going to spend a few days on relearning the ones I forgot and then start adding new cards again. /blog
>> dat paper
>> Capitalism causes lolicon
tell me DJT, is an anki grammar deck helpful at all? if so, which ones do you recommend?
This is the case where your own is significantly better than others. Copy sentences you don't quite understand, look up the grammar here http://tangorin.com/ for something similar and put those in with the translations and grammar notes, use the sentences from http://jiten.clanteam.com/index.html alongside reading the DoJG.
It's really useful for being reminded that there's multiple instances, uses, and nuances to grammar because sometimes certain expressions don't come up enough on their own.
After pressing a kana the "^_^" button changes to "小。
Press that button and た goes to だ, etc
thank you qt
Ooh so what youre saying is 発音 is loke the way you speak, like accented or clear. 漢字の読み方 is to ask how is this word actually pronounced?
That's what I got out of it. 発音 would be like IPA pronunciations, differences in vowels in dialects and such, while the other is literally the way you read it, because if it's 'pronounced' different, it's technically a different word that uses the same kanji.
You can't pronounce kanji, they're just Chinese scribbles. What you want to know is which word they represent.
So if i just want to ask how to read this kanji, Ill use 読み方？ got it, thanks for the clarification
When the chance comes up, pointing at it and mumbling something about この単語 with an 云う or 読む and maybe a どう in there while looking confused will get you the same answer, but yeah it's right.
I know the word they represent which is to say the kanji's meaning. I want to ask about how the Japanese say that letter as compared to Chinese pronunciation.
Speaking of kanji, how do I look up a kanji's meaning in the situation i cant copy paste it into a electronic dictionary or if i do t know the correct key stroke order?
You don't need to know the stroke order as long as you can identify at least one of the radicals.
wouldn't be 誰が日本語を分かる? better?
I'd say, 日本語が分かる人は誰ですか？ but I don't have any idea why. I do know you have to use が with interrogatives like 誰 and the only way to do that involves nominalizing the verb because 分かる is intransitive and doesn't take direct objects with を
So, 日本語が分かるのは誰？would also work.
I think 'wh' words in English don't take は because they're not known
I don't even understand what either of you are trying to say. "Who understands Japanese?"? are you trying to say "Does anyone here understand Japanese?" because in that case it would be "日本語が分かる人（は）いる?"
I mean 'wh' questions like, who, what where, when, why
Or you could change that (は) いる for が誰?
Maybe this is on purpose, but I'd just like to point out that both of these sentences implies you already know that there is someone there that knows Japanese. "Who is the one/are those that know Japanese?"
It was, considering the context probably had to do with asking who here actually knows japanese. I just realized I really should have mentioned that.
You could switch it with 「は誰」, but that would change the meaning to >>101225708
Speaking of this, whenever anyone says japanese grammar is really easy, it's like they ignore the small part where you have to completely restructure everything you say and think and be aware of a completely different level of nuance to ask even the simplest of questions.
Most of the people who say that are the people who just learned what a particle is.
Why does genki say potential verbs can use を when Tae Kim says they can't?
Refer to the holy bible that is the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar to settle it. I don't trust either of them enough to trust what they have to say without consulting that first.
You don't use を with 分かる
It humbled me when I realized how heavily direct noun modifications are used, where just about every action laden sentence ends as a statement about someone, and when they use that Kafka shit where you're waiting for the verb at the end and it's a surprise.
How can I import cards to Anki with rikaisama?
When なくてはいけない is used with a passive it means why are we getting verb right? as is why is (he) getting mad as us right?
What do people use to identify words that cant be obtained through Rikai- (images, print, other real media etc)?
Electronic/paper dictionaries? Jisho's kanji by radicals?
Yeah. Usually, you want to translate it as something like "why does he have to get mad at us?" or "why must he always be mad at us"? Literally, "why can't he not get mad at us"?
That said, maybe the translation should be:
"Why do we always have to be mad at each others?" or "Why do we always make each others angry?" if there is no one else mentioned in the context.
Where are you getting the "each other" from, exactly? I'm not sure you can make that claim without more context.
I'm curious on this.
Well, if there's a clear candidate for "he", then that guy is getting mad at "us", no doubt. If not, it might be that "we" are getting mad at each others.
Oh, another thing to keep in mind is that 怒られる typically means "being subjected to someone's anger", being yelled at and so on, essentially a synonym of 叱られる, while simply "making someone angry" would be 怒らせる
When will JLPT include a speaking and essay section?
>Error: current note type does not contain the following field: "Meaning"
What am I doing wrong?
Your card type's fields have to match what you've put in the "Field names" on Rikaisama.
I don't think I've ever noticed this taught in any formal grammar source, but I've noticed that objects of the たい form may be marked with がrather than を .
In the past I had noticed that in speaking I would sometimes do that myself, but I figured I was simply making case errors. Just now I was watching some animu and heard
And there is also 中二病でも恋-が-したい.
I had never really thought about this but I guess it's a thing you can do.
It's usually more common. I remember this question from awhile ago.
It's kind of an interesting optionality, though. I can sort of rationalize the same state of affairs with potential form verbs since, in some sense I think the structure can be interpreted as "can do the thing" (requiring accusative marking) or "thing is doable" (requiring nominative marking). Hard to see anything analagous with たい, not that there has to be, of course.
I always just interpreted it as "ice is what I want to eat".
I know I shouldn't be, but I was mystified when I found out たい is an adjective and turns the whole thing into a statement that takes です, so the switch from object to subject makes sense in a way.
Doesn't really fit with relative clauses anywhere else in the language but that's probably as good of an ad-hoc interpretation as any.
If it is an adjective you'd expect the subject to change to nominative, not the object, but who knows what the underlying syntax really is.
What's interesting about い-adjectives however, is that they look sort of verb-y to me, in that when used predicatively they don't require a further word to indicate "is" etc or tense, but have it all baked into the word, the same way verbs do, though the exact form of the parts differs.
They are verbs, just weird verbs of being a state. They even take noun form like verbs. Now for something that was mindblowing, adjectives ending in しい are used for unquantifiable states like feelings.
Yes, I think they are stative verbs. I'm not sure they take noun forms like verbs, though. As far as I'm aware, while you can say Verb+の/こと to mean "the act of Verb-ing" but you can't do this with い-adjectives.
I have noticed that kind of thing with しい though, does seem like something along those lines.
Is there a Japanese equivalent of a grammar Nazi?
No because unlike Americans Japanese people don't feel the need to defend their poor grasp of the language by inventing disparaging terms for people who can actually speak it properly.
Is this some sort of particular idiom or phrase? I see it on blogs and such and I'm never sure what it means. It's not a tag for a guy along the lines of "having a good head on your shoulders" or "running around like a chicken with its head cut off"
Can anyone who has a self-made sentence deck post it?
I'm curious as to how many you guys have, and what the results are like.
People who use the term "Grammar Nazi" aren't incapable of speaking the language; they just understand that being overly grammatical in certain situations is sometimes stiff or not socially appropriate. Please try not to make such a bombastic display of your autism disorder next time.
I think it is more of a "chip off the ol' block." or "cream of the crop."
Next to the tiger, the cat is a cut from the same cloth/your best bet.
I can't think of a proper english literal equivalent.
I've been trying to do the japanese thing off and on for a while, but I recently started getting serious about it.
Two interesting things to note:
1) to rise up is noboru
2) cramming some of these kanji into college ruled lines is a pain in the ass
I never said I used it, I was just wondering if it was a thing for it used in Japanese.
I go two lines at a time. That huge ass notepad paper for preschoolers is also pretty helpful. It also helps to keep on top of your radicals, because knowing those downpat will help immensely.
It's hard to tell the difference. 釣り is a noun. 赤さ is a noun. Different conjugation, but it's a different verb stem. Not to mention they take 無い in a way that nouns and na adjectives don't.
I've been following this the whole time and just realized ない is an adjective. Mind. Blown.
Welp, I forgot about it, sorry.
How I have my Rikaisama setup so it auto imports audio:
In rikaisama options, Clipboard & Save tab:
Saved Audio: C:\Users\anon\Documents\Anki\User 1\collection.media (or similar path)
Tags: Whatever you want
Save format: $d$t$n$t$r$t[sound:$a]
Field Names: Expression Meaning Reading Audio
Save audio when one of the real-time import keys is pressed: [X]
I don't think I had to do anything special in Anki. One snag is that is includes the audio field even for entries that have no audio. In that case run Tools -> Check Media in anki and it'll list which ones have invalid audio. Just leaving them there doesn't seem to hurt anything though.
Would learning the individual Radicals via RTK be advisable?
kinda on that wall on using it or just making my own deck from
Tested it, works perfect. Thank you very much.
I don't see what's difficult, both of those clearly have different constructions. Which are both different from nouny things, yes. I'm not sure what your point is.
I just like weird linguistic shit like this. In how many other languages are adjectives verbs and the negative form of a verb a conjugated adjective?
How much of a bitch are tenses in Japanese? I remember just how much I hated tense in Spanish.
There's two types of verbs that follow very few rules and two irregular ones. All you have is past and nonpast tense. It takes all of an hour to get the gist of, irregulars included.
That seems simple enough. Cool.
These kinds of fascinating things are the main reason I'm learning Japanese, even moreso than consuming media. I sometimes wonder if my native language or English aren't like that too, but I just don't think they're interesting because I've been practicing them since an early age.
Me too, which is why I'm becoming a linguistics major with a Jap. minor.
I dove to the root of Indo-european language and the only interesting thing I learned was that know, kin, and can have the same root in the word jhana, which is a crazy buddhist level of knowing through direct experience. The 知る kind of know.
I would like to know this too
It's useful if you don't want to bother with rtk itself, but a lot of kanji are composed of smaller components than those that are unnamed. Rtk just gives stupid easy to remember names to all those thing to make it easier than Dotted cliff, two trees, bunch of weird shit that looks like a duck.
You should be able to read this.
After looking through RTK1 i noticed that it doesn't have the reading which defeats the purpose for me.
I'll just go ahead and create my own deck using the wiki page i linked before.
Whoever posted this in the last thread can go fuck themself. I tried to work through this for half an hour before I thought to check for an updated version.
This is only 80 years old so I'm surprised about the usage of ゐ. Is it dated spelling, or have they really only lost those sounds in the interim? I also saw a をばさん and wondered the same thing.
Am I the only one who finds that the stories associated with the kanji to help you remember them make things 10x more complicated and that it's easier to just look at it and recognize it?
Mnemonics tend to be a lot less effective if you didn't create them yourself. The point is to have it tightly tied to our own knowledge -- not to have to memorize 2 arbitrary things instead of one.
Rtk is for writing and people with lazy eyes who don't pay attention. Mostly, it's only good for writing.
What is the difference between 全て and 総て?
Why my eroge started using 総て out of nowhere?
Beauty found in simple things
miserable, wretched, dreary
Goddamn japan, pick one.
Goddamn japan, pick one.
Goddamn japan, pick one.
is 言います the progressive polite form of 言う? Shouldn't it be 言っています? Am I retarded? Am I missing something?
Goddamn I need to move to japan.
I imagine it would be similar to the word "awesome" in the sense that it basically means something that inspires awe, which can mean either terrible or amazing depending on context.
>is 言います the progressive polite form of 言う?
>Shouldn't it be 言っています?
>Am I retarded?
>Am I missing something?
Then what is 言います? It's a conjugation of 言う right? What form is it? And to answer my own question, I think I am retarded.
言います is the present polite form of 言う
Conjugate いる for ます
Seems like if you know English, you have a good head-start on knowing Japanese.
Knowing Chinese would be more helpful
Come join me in a place where the language is slightly less disgusting.
The only annoying part is wasei-eigo, where they misappropriate an English word and give it a totally new meaning. Also, I always fuck up the spelling the spelling of the katakana, especially where to put the ー and っ
I am completely incapable of spelling the word for pants and パンツ is another of those wasei-eigo.
>ever wearing pants instead of パンツ
How the fuck did I forget this? Thanks a ton for actually replying to such a stupid question. It makes sense now...
I'm probably retarded, but what I can't parse what the last "してたんで" is supposed to be.
Can I use おかしい for a good type of funny, or is it more like for making fun?
Based on looking it up in a J-J dictionary and very quickly reading over it, it appears that it usually means amusing. It can also mean 'odd'.
Seems like it's a fairly general word, I'd assume it means 'the good type of funny' as you put it, unless context suggested otherwise.
What are you reading?
I'm reading デビルマン, 進撃の巨人, 生徒会役員共 and ゲッターロボ and planning to read アカメが斬る！, マジンガーＺ, 鋼鉄ジーグ and 悪魔のリドル.
>侘しい - shabby
>侘び - beauty found in shabby things
WOAH SO CRAZY RIGHT
Yotsuba and short doujins.
して いた ん だ
BUT YOU CAN, PLEB.
SAME AS YOU CAN USE を WITH 好き
HOW IS THAT N5 GOING?
It's really interesting because I can get a pretty good outline of what's happening, but I can still learn a lot from it by looking up individual words and getting more detail.
There are long doujinshi?
There is if you write more with your semen.
Also long dick joke. フエフエフエフ
I'm reading the Working! manga because my inner shipfag wants to see the couples on it to the end-
Isn't its art shitty compared to the anime?
You might get that impression from the full color covers, but once you get to the actual manga, it's not that bad. The chibi faces are really cute, especially Inami's.
して いた ので
して いた んで
Oh god I misread the last kana I clearly know absolutely nothing.
No really fuck off.
And ので makes it seem like something else entirely, so your analysis sucks.
How should I translate this one?
もっと問題」とは、英語で 「 Mo' money, mo' problems」です。
I didn't realise the clerk was talking to me straight away/at first.だよ。
"I did not immediately notice that I was being spoken to by the salesperson", I'd go with.
That's a really unnatural sentence in English.
Really unnatural? Maybe unnecessarily specific, but grammatical. I prefer to default to more literal translations of out-of-context things, personally.
I say let the EOPs eat our scraps, translate it however you see fit, change half the words and push your political agenda while you're at it.
This is where it bugs me,
>"I was being spoken to by the salesperson"
sounds closer to what was said in Japanese, but
>"clerk was talking to me"
sounds more natural in English.
In what kind of situation should I go with the former/latter one?
Japanese doesn't translate into English very well. Most professionally translated works are heavily in favor of sounding better in the target language. People on the Internet get autistic about non-literal translations.
Depends on whether you want to translate it into an utterance in more colloquial English with basically the same meaning or preserve the exact grammatical meaning of the original? I'd probably go with the first when translating material for other people and the latter when noting a translation for language learning purposes.
It's just the way the languages work.
We don't overuse the passive as much as Japanese does. You will OFTEN see sentences that in the passive form translated to make the other person the subject doing the action.
Can't do much about it. If you want a more literal translation (which is good for learning, textbooks, etc) go with the passive voice. If you want a natural translation (subtitles, translation of comics, etc) then go with a normal sentence.
Got it. You guys are very helpful, thanks!
I'm not sure I know enough to understand this. She saw something on TV about a deer, that looked cute, that accidentally got eaten?
She saw a tiger on the TV eat (a) baby deer.
>that looked cute
She meant 「可哀そう」、not 「可愛そう」
To add to this, nobody would ever say 可愛そう ever, because かわいそう means 可哀想
I see. Thank you. My vocabulary is very limited, which is why I jumped right to the そう form.
Yup. Any one else doing Kanji before Vocab?
Having Kanji first makes it easier IMHO.
You do vocab and kanji at the same. Remember it with any new words you learn.
Don't split that shit up man. Nothing down that road but tears and depression.
What I do is try to learn a one-kanji word together with the on-yomi
I did RTK up till around 800 words and stopped. I had so much more success with doing that than when I first started out and new next to no kanji.
I only did RTK up until around 200 to get a feel for Kanji and radicals. I have to say, it did help me much more than trying to jump into vocabulary head on, but RTK was getting me nowhere.
When you learn a new kanji, enter it here
and add everything marked as common to your vocab deck.
I want to redo RTK with this method now.
To beat up
Pick one, Anglosphere.
Does anyone have that picture of the giant kanji with the meaning "enlightened genius" and the reading "トリプルバカ"?
Why do people here only try to memorize the on-yumi? Shouldn't you know both the on and kun?
Learning a kunyomi is basically learning a word, so you might as well do it in vocab study, not kanji study.
On top of that, the on-yomi is very easy to pick up with vocab study. The most important thing in my view when learning kani is to learn the meaning.
>DJT gives you conflicting opinions
>end up even more confused
>just say "fuck it" and do both
>waste even more time
ゐ and other obsolete kana were definitely common in the prewar era, as were the old style kanji.
Here, leaf through this:
It's a old pop-science book from the 30s that uses furigana everywhere.
>The most important thing in my view when learning kani is to learn the meaning.
Why not do that in vocab study? Some kanji have dozens of meanings.
Kanji study should focus on the aspects that don't vary from word to word. So, pretty much stroke order and recognizing the kanji.
Flashcards are utterly useless, why do people recommend them?
watching this for listening practice.
language sure does change in 60 years.
7 samurai in case anyone wanted to try it.
That is horrifying. All these weird words everywhere making it feel like your learning something. Just like pop-sci books today. I swear I've seen this stuff in the background of an OP somehwere.
Why do some shounen manga not have furigana (Gundam: The Origin, ハレンチ学園)?
It's like the equivalent to fake shakespearean english. It's used in a lot of period films. The real thing from the sengoku period is like middle english and would be like trying to understand this.
And even then I fucked up some words and made them sound too modern.
Older target audience usually. Sometimes it's just the magazine it's in. If I remembering right, Azumanga diaoh doesn't have furigana even though you'd expect it to.
So, Nama senseis 100 Challenge just kind of stops somewhere in the middle. Why is this?
Because he's a drunk.
Man, what a hack. What should I use to learn the basic vocabulary instead? Like, the 900 most common words for a start.
Any list of sentences.
Go around your house and label shit.
Look at things around you in your life and wonder what they are, check in a dictionary, stick a label on it, try to recall it every time you see it.
I don't know man. Do what works best for you.
'if this makes you study seriously, then go for it' ?
If you're going to study, do it properly. If the guide doesn't hold your hand enough, this sure as hell will.
Google Translate is hilarious.
Sorry to bother you. To be honest, I don't really have a lot of experience with studying independantly.
Nah. Raikachan assisted guesswork.
That's why I linked it. It's really bullshitty and has too much overthinking and pointless steps, but if you haven't studied anything independently before, parts of it are pretty useful. Eventually you get a feel for what works for you personally and what is bullshit on your own.
>Like, the 900 most common words for a start.
Core 2000, for the 2000 most common words.
You don't (usually?) use ～べき in questions. It sounds too strong for such a trivial matter. Use 読んだらいい? / 選べばいい? instead.
I still can't quite figure out the Japanese "r". It mostly sounds like a rolling "r" when spoken during sentences, at least in most speech I've heard but some people make it sound like an "l" especially when pronouncing separate words, like the title of something and speaking slowly.
I dunno, I pronounce it by pushing the tip of my tongue further back towards the roof of my mouth than I would an "l", so yeah, pretty similar to a rolling "r", though I could never quite pronounce those in my old Spanish class.
HOW DO I YELL IN JAPANESE SINCE THEY DON'T HAVE UPPERCASE?
Hey guys, I'm writing a card and I need to translate something into Japanese. Google Translate will just get it wrong so could you guys translate this for me?
>Thank you for all your hard work & amazing shows!
Not your personal translation service.
READ MORE MANGA OR SHITTY LIGHT/VISUAL NOVELS!
Any website you guys know where I can see what grade I am at in terms of Kanji.
I've been learning for a long time and I haven't been following a strict plan so I'm all over the place.
Anon dat's lewd
Thanks, that is useful.
I'm actually worse than I thought I only know fully up to grade 4 and the rest I know a mix and match, there are at least 100 from grade 4 to 6 that I don't know.
Oh well time to work through each grade systematically.
Well, if you know 900 or even 800 out of 1000 that's not bad at all. I assume the ones you don't know are somewhat uncommon in whatever you're reading.
It's dangerous to go alone, take this:
Are there rules somewhere for 名乗り?
I don't understand how people can tell which way a name can be read.
Names can be read in any way. Aside from memorizing common ones, you're out of luck.
No rules. That's why in a lot of written media you will see furigana the first time a name appears, even if it doesn't have furigana otherwise.
If it is a boy it reads either Tanaka or Yamada.
If it is a girl it reads the name of a object+ko, like 花子,雪子,淫子, etc.
Tanaka and Yamada are family names. Boy names are Taro, Jiro and such.
It is now my duty to convince some insufferable weeb couple to use this.
"Yeah, that kanji means majestic or imperial, it's totally in fashion for baby names right now"
Aren't names limited to 人名用？
It is a normal name you know.
Doesn't matter since they don't live in Japan anyway.
金玉 is a real family name too apparently.
Biggus Dickus is a real English name -- comes from Latin.
There's is a artist named 紅萬子 （くれない まんこ）
About to start reading Yotsuba. Is it recommended to have a translation nearby to consult when I'm having difficulty understanding a sentence, or is that too much of a crutch?
Alright, here's the deal. I've been searching for hours and I can't find one fucking decent kanji deck for anki. I just want the jouyou kanji and I don't want any stupid gimmicks, just the kanji on one side, the english translation, on, kun, stroke order, and example sentence on the other. Why is this so hard to find? Can someone reccomend me a deck?
It's recommended to bench press cars while reading so that you can become a male model and earn enough money to fly to Japan and get surgery to become Japanese.
Why does she use わ?
Both ways are correct.
And by stoke order I mean the radicals it is composed of
Make your own. I had to make mine.
get the reading packs.
mainly a convenience thing but it also has anki decks and can help parse the sentences.
from personal experience i find having a translation at hand to be a hindrance.
I think it's either like the difference between "yea" and "yeah" or わ may have more emphasis on the sound of the word/have feminine connotations.
Thanks. Those reading packs look perfect.
Pretty sure it's not the feminine connotations, I've seen decidedly unfeminine characters use it.
I'm pretty sure "yea" is pronounced "yay" and is the opposite of nay, so no.
she wants it
I'm using Obenkyo just to look over some kanji.
On here I don't see any pronunciations of "ka" for the kanji of mother. The kun is "haha" and "mo" while the on is "bo".
Is the obenkyo dictionary wrong or is this just something unique?
I could also just be a big idiot
かあさん, とうさん, にいさん and ねえさん aren't actually "official" dictionary readings of those family kanji.
Ah okay. That makes sense then. I was really concerned there.
I've never heard anyone say that before. I'd pronounce them the same.
>I'd pronounce them the same
So what? How does that change the official pronunciation of words?
Well, considering that my knowledge of English comes from 20 years of exposure -- it's a bit surprising to be wrong about something that simple/common.
I guess it's easy to be wrong when everyone I've ever been exposed to is also.
The yea sound you are look for is more yeh instead.
Has anyone here learned in depth about a topic unrelated to Japanese with Japanese? The idea of studying chemistry in Japanese is really appealing to me.
Fuck no, you have get a separate science dictionary for the science kanji.
anatomy in my eroge
This made me realize...I need to learn how to use chopsticks
Whats the difference between ゲイ and オカマ?
If you want to know with a lot of accuracy, look it up in a J-J dictionary. If you're unable to understand the entry then you shouldn't concern yourself with such matters yet.
What's are some advice on learning Japanese for a native English and Chinese speaker? Don't want to blog too much but I grew up with both, now mainly use English, but speak Mandarin fluently and recognize most everyday traditional (as opposed to simplified) Chinese characters.
I've tried some google searches on this topic but lead nowhere.
Core 2k +Tae Kim, then read.
Why would kanji be harder than studying vocab?
Thanks, I'll look into it.
Would it be wise to go through and read all the examples sentences in http://jiten.clanteam.com/volume/basic.html or would it be detrimental because there's no context to the sentences?
I can read Yotsuba slowly and with Rikaisama at the ready, but want to make sure I'm understanding things correctly.
Reading example sentences is more difficult than reading a script precisely because you have no context and have to rely on your knowledge of grammar alone, rather than guesswork. It's good for verifying that you've assimilated the grammar, but it doesn't reflect how well you will be able to understand a real text (to say nothing of voiced material, you can practically understand that from the tone alone.)
In other words, it's never detrimental, but it might not be necessary.
>you can practically understand that from the tone alone.
I almost have an issue with this. As long as I know everything else, and even when I don't, the grammar itself doesn't even register unless I'm paying very close attention. It makes reinforcing things more difficult as I don't even notice when they're being used.
I'm reading Yotsuba right now while referencing the DoBJ. It's working pretty well, although the casual forms can be kind of a pain. Download the pdf from the pastebin.
I've got the DoBJ already, but don't really use it. The lack of a search function, in addition to being loaded with romaji, makes it unappealing to me.
What is it with the yotsuba fetish in here? I know it's a matter of taste, but I have the soul of a 12 year old boy and it bores me in english. Is it really that popular and I'm missing something, or are people just reading the guide and thinking it's any easier than any other manga that interests them? Pretentious philosophical rambling excluded.
As an alternative, I found that older works using slightly more formal language are much more useful for learning things from than reading stuff that breaks the rules.
4chan mascot, and people think it's easier.
And the vocabulary is probably quite easy, but it isn't worth reading if you won't enjoy it.
Ah, yeah. The romaji's definitely a distraction.
Try this anki deck: http://www.mediafire.com/download/od5z99y9v3yqd5l/ADoBJG%2BNotes.anki
You should be able to search the cards easily. The definition/usage/notes are all on the cards, as well as the examples without romaji). There are some typos. but nothing major.
This looks great, thanks. Are there decks for the intermediate dictionary as well?
What's the なぞ here, is it really 謎? it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense that way but then again I don't really understand "old speech"
You can find a deck with all three volumes. Only the deck I linked has the notes on the cards, however. The complete deck is basically just the sentences and expressions from the jiten site.
It makes me wonder how many people are forcing their way though it when they could be forcing their way though something they would personally enjoy more just because there's this vague consensus.
I guess compared to Azumanga Daioh, it's easier, but I'm tempted to edit the guide to say "read whatever gives you the weeb boner to drill through to the heavens", because there is no other way to learn this language that works better.
Excellent, I'll get far more use out of these than just the .pdfs. Thanks again.
Probably not many. Yotsuba is adorable, and a fun read. Of course you should read only that which you want to read, but it'd be good choice to start off reading the easiest of what you like.
I just never had any luck with SoL when I started because they talk about new things too often to have a regularly used vocab base to learn grammar from. It took some things with a bit of 'tism for the basics to really stick. Not to mention, reading things that at least partially adhere to all that grammar before you learn all the slang and exceptions is a million times easier.
>reading things that at least partially adhere to all that grammar
I would have done that if I knew which manga, light novel, or VN did that. I'm still learning a bunch of basic casual shortenings of grammar concepts.
Is this true?
I really hate reading it in English, but I laugh quite a bit when I read it in Japanese.
Outside of dialogue, these old edo detective stories some anon posted are pretty formal without being pretentious and wordy. It uses である like it was going out of style, which I guess it did. Some of the vocab is stuff you won't see elsewhere, but it's surprisingly easy to read. Not necessarily for complete beginners, but it beats coming against things like そうや before you learn そういえば.
Also this dude is like a badass Sherlock Holmes, only without the aspergers and homoeroticism.
Speaking of which, there's some Sherlock on Aozora and it's worth a read just for how much the gay undertones stand out when you have to look up the words.
Would it be more effective to read through an anki deck's cards first before using it? Or is it fine to use the deck and learn the cards by getting them wrong a bunch?
I know you read this threads, stop shitposting in the facebook group. They're annoying but you're not doing any better acting like an idiot.
My brief experience with a novel from ~100 years ago can be distilled into: kanji everywhere. Katakana was almost completely unused, even used kanji for grammatical things.
Before I had started (seriously) learning Japanese, I ordered the first volume of Abnormal-kei Joshi both to support the author and possibly read it in the future.
It actually turned out to be kind of easy, and became one of the first things I tried to read. It had furigana for absolutely everything, and I noticed I understood a fair bit of it after finishing Tae Kim. Every once in a while I revisit it and understand a little more than the last time.
It seems like finding something you like is more important than how easy something is, though having both is ideal for your first time.
What deck is that?
The one I read had a version with modern kanji and still had strange kanji usage. The only english words I came across were ランプ and the letter K. It was only 70 years old, but the experience was kind of fun.
Do you think you can find the name of those detective stories? They sound interesting.
Also what's そうや, a casual そういえば? Or is it just something I'll come across eventually learning about grammar and such.
It's the casual, unless I copied into anki wrong and have learned the wrong thing.
It's 半七捕物帳 by 岡本綺堂 and here's the first one on aozora. I've been reading them with the translated collection as reference because the only real issue is how many historic and cultural footnotes it needs.
thanks on both accounts.
Have some chocolate
I seriously recommend you find this on #bookz or wherever you 'find' things because the introduction alone is a lifesaver.
> I don't know where to find it because 2ch is more pleb then reddit and their opinions on anything are painful to read.
Most people in Japan are going to have a pretty good grasp on the language and punctuation and such is pretty straightforward and problems like people using the the wrong form of the verb in x situation is uncommon. ("layed" instead of "lied" in a situation, for example)
Issues might come up with things like 敬語 and maybe things like ら抜き言葉 but there's I don't think there's enough commonly misunderstood things for people to make a big deal about it if they wanted to.