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Bleach chapter/general discussion thread.
Continued from >>101147929
>>
Who is As Nodt?!

Why does he wear the mask?!
>>
>>101174941
Bane?
>>
>>101174724
so what's rukia's fear? it must be related to either byakuya and ichigo right? we already ruled out kaien so those two are the only options left
>>
>>101175002
How is Kaein ruled out?
>>
>>101175070
She put Kaien behind her already.

>>101175002
She trusts Ichigo's abilities too much to fear for his safety.
>>
>>101175070
She's dealt with that shit enough times directly to be done with it.
>>
>>101174941
This isn't a question. The mask is for style and style alone.
>>
>>101175002
From last thread:
>The thing is that Rukia basically already faced her worst fears. She was never really afraid of dying; not because she didn't want to live, but because she felt it was atonement for Kaien. And then she had to fight Kaien. There's really not much else for her to be afraid of; she would fear losing Ichigo if she didn't truly believe that Ichigo won't lose, or simply won't die even if he's killed.
>>
>>101174981
It would be extremely painful

>>101175149
For you

I'll stop now.
>>
>>101175111
>She trusts Ichigo's abilities too much to fear for his safety.
i dunno, this sounds a bit like orihime in mexico. thinking he is unstoppable and unkillable and shit. hes a genetic freak and powerhouse but he is not immortal or infallible
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>>101175264
You seem like a pretty big guy, anon.
>>
>>101175397
For you
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>>101175111
>>101175133
Thats not how his power works at all. You can't just logic through it. Also, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring for "having to kill hollowfied ichigo just like kaein" as her biggest fear.
>>
>>101175538
well what did Byakuya fear? What was it agreed to be?
>>
>>101175538
Or not being able to kill Hollofied Ichigo.
>>
>>101174724
rukia a goddess
>>
>>101175538
I think being exposed to a fear multiple times does grant you resistance.
Think about it - she reacted hard enough that she dropped her sword. That's pretty big.
But if humans didn't overcome fear through exposure, we wouldn't have people working on heights, people wouldn't bother learning to swim, heavy duty machinery, etc.
Logic and experience are in fact hard counters to primal instincts, but they're not complete ones.
>>
>>101175616
He feared Rukia's death.
Byakuya/Rukia > Ichigo/Rukia
>>
>>101175624
If anything I'm betting this. She knows she's not strong enough to take him in a direct toe to toe fight. Especially now.
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>>101175635
She's the best, anon.
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>>101175685
>>
>>101175538
>>101175624
These are great ideas
>>
>>101174724
That was so funny seeing Renji be an asshole that just slept in the enemies camp like fuck you.
>>
>>101174724
So... Rukia going bankai in a week or two?
>>
>>101175624
I think she would be more upset by it happening than worried about actually being able to beat him.

>>101175679
Thats not how As Nodt's power works though. It isn't just rational fear that you can overcome. Its like you people didn't even read his fight with Byakuya.
>>
>>101175785
Kubo is that you?
>>
>>101175802
Probably more like 3-4 weeks if it does happen. I give it 50/50 of happening.
>>
I want to cum inside Rukia
>>
>>101175842
maybe its just an overpowering reiatsu thing? Soi Fon couldn't touch Aizen with her 2 hit kill ability.

Maybe Rukia is just too strong now. We've already seen Renji turn into a badass.
>>
>>101175930
I think its far more likely that Rukia experiences fear but just powers through it.
>>
>>101175926
I want to cuddle with her.
>>
Rukia Bankai next chapter?
>>
>>101175842
Rukia's death never happened. He couldn't logic through it because it flat didn't happen.
Rukia feared the whole Kaien thing the most and killed him, twice. That happened in the worst way.
Now I'm not saying As Nodt won't try to draw a deeper fear from her or something or she won't doubt herself and her trust in Ichigo for a second, since the fight would be boring without it. But it works by that logic here >>101175177
>>
>>101176057
You monster
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>>101175288
Rukia believes in the strength of Ichigo's character, not merely his powerlevel. Orihime believed that he would actually overcome all obstacles to save her, but didn't really believe that trying to save her was the right thing. They're almost complete opposites.
>>
>>101176026
Her entire character has been characterized by her being afraid of people and things around her: dying, Kaien, Ichigo, Byakuya, Renji

I'm excited about seeing her being a badass now
>>
>>101176068
At the end maybe. Next week is probably another perspective shift or a series of trap cards/ Shikai showing off.
>>
This chapter reminds me why I sometimes considering dropping Bleach for a mont or so and then come back to it when there's more to read in a bulk.
>>
>>101175842
Well, more to the point, That no one would be able to kill Hollofied Ichigo and that would result in some cataclysmic event or another.
>>
>>101176095
Go reread the As Nodt vs Byakuya fight.
>>
>>101175842
>Thats not how As Nodt's power works though. >It isn't just rational fear that you can overcome. Its like you people didn't even read his fight with Byakuya.

The difference between Byakuya and Rukia is that Byakuya has never really "accepted" fear as an emotion- he represses basically all his emotions because he thought it would make him stronger. But as you said, he couldn't logic through The Fear.

Rukia, however, has actually had to face fear- real fear, which is what The Fear is. I know it sounds redundant but she can "accept" fear where Byakuya couldn't.
>>
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Has Rukia ever had a major fight before?

I can't seem to remember her fighting anyone and not having Ichigo save her ass.
>>
>>101176414
You're completely ignoring the point
Please reread the post and consider this >>101176425
>>
Kubo's seriously stepped up his art this arc
>>
>>101176390
I got all that, I still think her focus would be on having to fight Ichigo though and not what happens to the world.
>>
>>101176427
She beat #10 Espada, and only won because the Espada was retarded.
>>
>>101176427
The 9th Espada, Aaroniero. One of the better fights in Hueco Mundo in my opinion.
>>
>>101176427
D Roy
Aaroniero
{spoiler]Spirit King[/spoiler:lit]
>>
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>>101176492
Retarded Espada?
Stop the presses.
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>>101176427
>Beat Aaroniero
>Beat the guy who turn himself into a arrancar tree
Rukia's low captain class, probably full captain class with rg upgrades
>>
>>101176575
why does that figure look so shit?
>>
>>101175865
I guess you'll find out
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>>101176688
Doll joints over the robes, shit's disgusting
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>>101176425
>>101176445
I understand what you're trying to say completely but thats just not how his power works. Go reread that fight.
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>>101176512
It was an interesting fight but unimpressive for both parties.
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>>101176688
>>101176891
It's not ideal, but I still like it. The other one I have with her in her school uniform can't really be posed.
>>
>>101176933
That is exactly how his power works: innate, biological fear. Byakuya had no experience with it and thus had no way to counter it, whereas Rukia has consistently dealt with it. I feel that you are somehow implying that because fear exists in all living creatures, that therefore it cannot be countered in any way. Which is wrong. And you should probably see a psychiatrist.
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>>101176466
He's at least drawing backgrounds now...wells sort off
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>>101176994
It at least managed to differentiate itself from both the "powerlevel" fights and the "lengthy keikaku hax" fights that mostly dominated the arc.
>>
>>101177185
From this panel it seems that Rukia had already begun to understand how As Nodt's power worked.
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>>101177003
Show the other one so we can compare?
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Ichigo mad.
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>>101177273
Here's a shitty old picture since the camera lens on my phone is cracked now.
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>>101177340
Ichigo already has Nel and Halibell
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>>101177551
But they're not god-tier waifu material like Rukia is.
>>
>>101177539
>that vacuum next to the bookcase

Stick it in the boiler room or something!

I like this figure better by the way. But the face kills it for me
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>>101177102
>I feel that you are somehow implying that because fear exists in all living creatures, that therefore it cannot be countered in any way. Which is wrong. And you should probably see a psychiatrist.
No, im not. I'm just following what was shown in the manga. Give me a few minutes and i'll post a page since you refuse to go reread it.
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>>101177668
he could always bang Yuzu
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Renji pls

Please tell me this was your plan all along and you didn't fall asleep in the middle of a war.
>>
What the hell was up with the last chapter?

Bach, being the first Quincy, was just a magic baby? That's the origin of his powers?
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>>101177822
Does this look of the face of a man with a plan to you?
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>>101177710
I don't have one. It's a studio apartment. The only other place is a small closet in my kitchen I store my food in since it's all shelves,
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>>101177862
Add 'just a' to any character's origin and it's equally unimpressive.
Difference is we don't know everything about Bach and why he has those powers.
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>>101178015
he's the gary stuest
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>>101178015
He's the most employable man in /ss/
because he always jobs
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>>101177755
>Fear can be overcome through experience. Those who know battle often come to believe this. 'Fear that comes from reason' is kind. It can be conquered through force of will or through experience. It is possible to suppress such reasoned fear by severing it at its source. But true fear is without reason. It is not an emotion, but an instinct. True fear occurs without reason, without bounds. It is like a swarm of insects crawling up the body. We cannot escape from our instincts

First off,
>believing everything that your opponent tells you
Secondly, what fear could possibly be worse than having to kill the man you love... twice? I don't know what sort of point you're trying to make, but it's obvious that Rukia was unaffected by The Fear; I'm merely expressing the most likely reason for this based solely on Rukia's character development. It could be Zanpakuto hax, it could be Royal Realm training, it makes no difference in the context of the manga as of this chapter.
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>>101177102
>>101177755
Note that this is right after Byakuya was saying the same things about himself that you're saying about Rukia.
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>>101178053
Why don't you just hide all your crap under the bed?
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>tfw no more "number one"
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>>101178107
>still not knowing how to use Gary Stu correctly
>2014

>>101178123
I like it.
>>
>>101178099
OK. It came out of left field, but sure, that's true.
Nitpicking about god-like children in a manga about soul reapers is silly.
So I hope there is a bit more elaboration there before the end of the arc/manga.
>>
>>101178209
How the fuck am I supposed to shove that under a bed with only a foot high gap off the floor?
It doesn't matter. It's just there in the corner. It's weird, but then again this room wasn't designed for long term leasing I'd guess.
>>
>>101178171
Its not about your actual fears and overcoming them, its just pure instinct and fear at nothing.
>it's obvious that Rukia was unaffected by The Fear
Yeah, so far. Byakuya also was overcoming it at first and look how well that worked out for him. Theres no reason to believe that Rukia has somehow overcome fear more than her (far more experienced) older brother. Now, Rukia may or may not overcome his fear but it won't simply be because shes face fears of hers before, it'll more likely be either powering through the fear or something stupid with RG training and reiatsu.
>>
>>101178203
Once again, that's incorrect. Byakuya was trying to use "logic" to overcome fear; it's like having a night terror and telling yourself it isn't real, it doesn't work.

Rukia has physically felt the most terrifying thing for her, which was killing Kaien. Byakuya was actaully able to suppress his fear for a bit, but what was he done in by? Dead Rukia. The person he cares for most. Rukia had already overcome that... twice. And as posted here >>101178171 your argument is already pointless, Rukia beat The Fear.
>>
Rukia is fearless now?
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>>101178540
Yes, basically.
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>>101178596
>enemy's power is fear
>fights a fearless opponent
Kubo is too contrived sometimes.
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>>101178203
As Nodt speaks of experience as a warrior, in battle. They can POWER THROUGH fears like that, because they've faced danger to themselves so often they have to.
Rukia dying has nothing to do with his experience in that field; it's the death of family. Not a danger to himself. Not a danger as a warrior and therefore battle experience is useless against it.
'True fear' is instinctual but that does absolutely nothing to refute the fact that logic and exposure opposes it, a truth that is prevalent everywhere.
You can refuse to see this all you want and call 'reiatsu hax' or 'rg bullshit upgrade' but there's nothing contradictory in what we suppose.
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>>101178540
Byakuya never knew true fear since he was always strong. Rukia started off weak and was constantly fighting through her fear. That's why Ass Knot's powers are near useless on her.
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>>101178123
7/10
best I can do
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>>101178387
Don't you know how to take it apart?
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>>101178501
>Theres no reason to believe that Rukia has somehow overcome fear more than her (far more experienced) older brother
Byakuya has had experience with Battle, but not Fear. As for how Rukia beats The Fear we won't know until next week, but I think you're either ignorant of how important character development is in Bleach or simply can't accept that not every power in Bleach is unbeatable.
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>>101178287
Yeah, I'd be disappointed if we didn't get any. Kubo's explained like every villain so far, save the Fullburgers.
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>>101178661
You're completely missing the entire point and its not even worth arguing with you because you're obviously never going to give up that your speshul snowflake ruki/a/ is the best.

>>101178712
Byakuya experienced fear much more than Rukia would have. Pull your head out of your ass.
>>
>>101178712
I'm not saying its unbeatable, i'm saying you can't beat it with pure logic because thats already been shown not to work. Having experienced one of your biggest fears a single time doesn't make you immune to all fears forever.
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>>101177862
>Bach, being the first Quincy, was just a magic baby?
Magic still born or something. A bunch of people found themselves fawning over this baby body and wanting to possess it.

I think it's meant to parallel Jesus though, what with the whole charismatic healing thing going on.
>>
>>101177710
Ya the sculpting is pretty nice, but as with a lot of anime figures, the face... leaves something to be desired.
And before anyone asks white
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>>101178763
>aww shit I just got told better repeat hurr fear is unbeatable by humans becaus its his powr and true until people believe me
>also he must be a rukiafag this will make me seem smart
I'm sorry, but Byakuya's experience with 'true fear' is little and Rukia's already fought that twice. No matter how many people tell you this you refuse anything but the answer 'wow it's bullshit!'
Maybe you should read something else.
>>101178838
>single time
>stabbed him twice
>even reflected on the ENTIRE THING before killing him a second time
>not enough
Please, are you expecting an entire arc dedicated to how badly Rukia regretted it the first time and didn't want to do it the second time? We've got a shitload of it already.
>>
Anyone else ever play Bleach: Dark Souls for the DS? Love that fighting game.
>>
Prepare for a one sided battle.
>>
>>101179008
>I'm sorry, but Byakuya's experience with 'true fear' is little and Rukia's already fought that twice. No matter how many people tell you this you refuse anything but the answer 'wow it's bullshit!'
>Maybe you should read something else.
Yeah you're delusional as fuck, I'm done. Theres no way in hell you could honestly think that Rukia has experienced fear more than Byakuya, shes been sheltered as fuck as far as shinigami go.Lets compare
Byakuya
>Captain class shinigami for years
>Dozens of dangerous missions
>Fought in countless more battles

Rukia
>taken in by nobles
>not allowed to be a seated officer because byakuya is protecting her
>has one traumatic incident
You're assuming that just because we've seen Rukia go through fear and we haven't seen Byakuya go through it that means he never has. I'm done with this because you've exposed yourself as a rukia fanboy and those are impossible to convince.
>>
>>101178763
When have you actually seen Byakuya express fear even once in Bleach? Before fighting Nodt, that it.
>>101178838
Once again, it has nothing to do with logic; you know that instinctual mindbreaking fear Nodt keeps going on about? That's the kind of fear that you feel when you're forced to kill the person you love the most.

Come back after As Nodt dies and tell us about how stupid Bleach and Kubo is, and we'll talk about it all over again.
>>
>>101179280
>Theres no way in hell you could honestly think that Rukia has experienced fear more than Byakuya
'True fear'.
Byakuya's true fear was Rukia dying.Hasn't happened.
Rukia's true fear was Kaien dying. Which happened twice. And she's repented for it since forever, and had an entire flashback dedicated to her overcoming it.
You're blind.
>>
>>101175776
So Incest Rout is gonna be canon?
>>
>>101179409
True fear is not the same thing as your biggest fear you fucking moron. And even if it was experiencing one of your large fears doesn't make you immune to you other fears.

>>101179387
You mean besides when Zommari was controlling rukia and threatening to kill her? I'm sure you remember that fight because it had your precious rukia in it. So thats one fear that we've seen them both experience, plus Byakuya has a whole background of dangerous missions where as Rukia does not.
>>
>>101179413
It would be Kubos ultimate twist.
needs more lewdkia. Also in the anime halloween special she more or less fantasized about her brother... which was all a dream of dogfaces. ... it's canon in some parallel universe.
>>
>>101179280
Fighting against countless Menos is hardly a challenge when you're a natural-born shinigami with high reiatsu and a VC seat as a teenager. That isn't the type of fear that As Nodt brings to the table, as you yourself said.

>separated from sister in SS
>orphan in Rukongai for years
>basically forced into Kuchiki household because of brother-in-law
>Fall in love with VC
>forced to kill VC
>punished by death for crimes agianst SS
>have to kill VC you're in love with... again
Go fuck yourself, mate.
>>
>>101179413
Rukia only blushes when she thinks of her Nii-sama.
>>
>>101174724
Oh God... How awful is some of this writing? That last line of Rukia, pure garbage. At least kill her off would make me happy. She doesn't serve much of a purpose.
>>
>>101179609
So because we haven't seen Byakuya's past you automatically assume hes never had to face fear or gone through anything tramatic? But then Rukia facing one single fear of hers is enough to make her immune to all forms of fear forever. Makes perfect sense.
>>
>>101179647
Poorly done, 0/10.
>>
>>101179537
Once again, key difference: the person Byakuya cares for the most is still alive- the first time he had to see Rukia's corpse was through The Fear. Rukia has already dealt with that particular type of fear twice- and guess what, she was able to move past it. At this point you're killing you own argument.
>>
>>101179647
>complaining about the writing of dialogue in a translated manga that doesn't have any good translations
Derp
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What is your fear anon?
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>>101179720
True fear and your biggest fear are not the same thing you fucking moron. I have to be getting trolled right now because theres no way anyone could be so blinded by delusion.
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>>101179679
No, because as Byakuya himself stated, the way he's dealt with fear is by suppressing it, whereas Rukia actually has had to cope with it over time and overcome it. There's a difference between being immune to fear and being resistant to it; and Rukia being exposed to fear- real fear- gives her that advantage. I can't explain this to you any better that hasn't already been said to you; find some reading comprehension past a single quote and quit catching yourself on the asinine details of a fodder villain's super special power.
>>
>>101179965
You're making so many assumptions its fucking ridiculous.
>>
Bach's healing power is kinda similar to Orihime's, thinking about it. Both use a part of their soul to bring back stuff like lost limbs.
>>
>>101179858
Be more euphoric. You can't change the fact that Rukia overcame "true fear", you can write it off as bad writing but the truth is you're focusing on a single detail without looking at the big picture. Come back in a week and we can explain it to you all over again, or even better just find something else to bitch about.
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>>101180167
Only really in the most vague sense of the world "similar"
>>
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>>101179812
>>
>>101180186
You're confusing "true fear" with "biggest fear" still you moron. Just stop posting.
>>
>>101180186
>You can't change the fact that Rukia overcame "true fear"
There's an implication she has seen through As Nodt's power and has an idea how to defeat it, but we still see her go into a state of fear when it's used on her.
>>
>>101180115
It's not really assuming, it's drawing inferences from the text. Granted, it's not perfect, but it's better than having no evidence.
>>
I think As Nodt was bullshitting Byakuya about his fear ability and Rukia figured that out.
>>
>>101180297
You're assuming both that Byakuya never had to experience fear (when he had far more experience and dangerous situations than Rukia has had) AND that Rukia is completely over the whole Kaein thing and wouldn't be bothered by it. She clearly was frazzled by seeing Aaroneiro as Kaein and I bet if she saw a vision of her stabbing a hollow Kaein she'd still be bothered by it.
>>
>>101180115
I'm making assumptions? By your understanding of how The Fear works, no character in Bleach could withstand it without resorting to severe levels of hax. Blame Kubo for writing himself out of a corner but it's still congruent with the establishment of Rukia's character.
>>
>>101180361
how would you explain what happened to byakuya then?
>>
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>>101179812
bears.
>>
>>101180418
>no character in Bleach could withstand it without resorting to severe levels of hax.
Thats not even close to what I'm saying. I'm saying that she'll still experience fear but be able to power through and still win. I'm merely stating that its stupid to think "hurr rukia is immune to fear now because of the kaein thing"
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>>101179622
>>
>>101180361
yeah the way as nodt described his powers doesn't make sense in some ways
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>>101179812
flies
>>
>>101180252
In the context of Rukia they're the same exact thing.
>>101180265
That much is obvious but it clearly didn't affect her the same way it affected Byakuya.
>>101180404
You couldn't be more wrong.
>>
>>101180439
He could have been lying about the mechanics of it, not the fear-inducing part.
>>
>>101180559
>In the context of Rukia they're the same exact thing.
No, they aren't.

>That much is obvious but it clearly didn't affect her the same way it affected Byakuya.
Shes only been fighting As Nodt for all of 2 seconds, Byakuya was still completely fine at this point is his fight too. Wait and see what happens before you spout this bullshit.
>>
>>101179858
>>101179720
Fear is a emotion and no matter how much you trained or experienced it , you'll still feel it, at least that's what AsN's ability is, if Rukia can somehow bypass it , she's fearless which is bullshit because then she doesn't have emotions.
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>>101179622
>>101179622
>>
>>101180491
>its stupid to think "hurr rukia is immune to fear now because of the kaein thing"
That was never what I nor anyone was saying; you wanted to know why Rukia wasn't as badly affected by the fear as Byakuya, and we told you exactly why that was so.
>>
>>101180206
If Bach's basic power just improved people or made them stronger I'd agree, but it seems to just negate past damage, so lung disease is removed, limbs are regenerated, broken hearts are mended. Combine this with blut arteri and vene, that's Orihime's three moves covered.
>>
>>101180703
Your reasoning is fucking stupid, everyone can feel fear, doesn't matter what's your experience with it, ergo it probably has to do something with AsN's abilities.
>>
>>101179965
>No, because as Byakuya himself stated, the way he's dealt with fear is by suppressing it
Actually, he directly states the opposite. Exact quote from a page of the manga "I have never suppressed any sort of fear. I have accepted fear through battle, pounded it down, and acquired the power to continue forward" Huh, its almost as if thats exactly what you're trying to say about Rukia.
>>
>>101180703
No, thats not how it went at all. People were saying that Rukia is now fearless because of the whole Kaein thing, I refuted that point and then the argument became about whether or not Rukia is immune to fear.
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and there's your cute injection for the day
>>
>>101180648
She feels it but she has felt it before and can cope with it; Byakuya is the type of person who pushes out emotion through logic.
>>101180643
Because that's what the last panel was implying...
>>
>>101180729
Orihime doesn't have powers similar to either blut.
>>
>>101180848
see
>>101180783

You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>
>>101180848
>Because that's what the last panel was implying...
So we'll immediately believe Rukia's bluff during a fight, but when As Nodt is explaining his own abilities we assume hes lying? That line is just the usual trash talk.
>>
>>101180404
But different people perceive different situations differently. While fighting 50 hollows might be terrifying for Rukia, for Byakuya, it might be nothing. So even though Byakuya has been in much more dangerous situations, we don't know if he has ever experienced "fear" like Rukia has with Kaien.

>Rukia is completely over the whole Kaein thing and wouldn't be bothered by it
Yeah, that isn't true. Rukia still probably has lingering pangs, but I think she's gotten over the bulk of it.
>>
>>101177340
nah, he's not a beta bitch like renji. He knows rukia is already his
>>
>>101181001
It's too late. Rukia's winning this fight. Therefore, lying As Nodt is more likely than bluffing Rukia.
>>
Rukia isn't "fearless", she can simply work past her fear with courage. She doesn't let fear hold her back. That is different from not having fear at all.
>>
>>101181009
>But different people perceive different situations differently. While fighting 50 hollows might be terrifying for Rukia, for Byakuya, it might be nothing. So even though Byakuya has been in much more dangerous situations, we don't know if he has ever experienced "fear" like Rukia has with Kaien.
You're gonna try and claim that in Byakuya's years of being a captain and serving in the SS, that hes never experienced fear? Even when he directly states that he has during his fight with As Nodt.

>Yeah, that isn't true. Rukia still probably has lingering pangs, but I think she's gotten over the bulk of it.
So you think that if a vision of her stabbing a hollowfied Kaein was put in her head (just like the dead rukia in Byakuya's mind), that wouldn't bother her? Because I'm pretty sure it would.
>>
>>101181119
This
She and Renji are guaranteed to win their first post power up fight.
By the time Ichigo shows up though it will be just in time to save them or just after they both job. Possibly to Ishida
>>
>>101180844
It was never that she was fearless, it was about the type of fear that Rukai has dealt with as opposed to Byakuya which made the difference.
>>101180783
"Accepting fear through battle" isn't accepting fear, it's just being stronger so you don't have to be afraid. The situation Rukia had to face wasn't one she could overcome that way; she had to deal with the fat that she killed Kaien daily, and never really forgave herself for it until later in the manga.
>>
>>101181119
Her winning the fight doesn't mean she can't trash talk or that he must be lying. She'll simply get through being afraid.
>>
>>101181197
Kubo may troll rukia for some weird reason.
>>
>>101181210
>It was never that she was fearless, it was about the type of fear that Rukai has dealt with as opposed to Byakuya which made the difference.
Yes it was, thats what the entire conversation has been about. If you don't realize that then you've been missing the point even harder than I thought.
>"Accepting fear through battle" isn't accepting fear, it's just being stronger so you don't have to be afraid. The situation Rukia had to face wasn't one she could overcome that way; she had to deal with the fat that she killed Kaien daily, and never really forgave herself for it until later in the manga.
So fucking delusional. First its "Byakuya never accepted fear he only suppressed it. Now its "Byakuya never accepted fear just because he accepted fear, its not the saaaaame!"
>>
>>101181248
I wouldn't put it past him to put her in another "save the princess" scenario.
And if it does happen, I bet it'll be Onii-chan to the rescue.
>>
>>101181189
>You're gonna try and claim that in Byakuya's years of being a captain and serving in the SS, that hes never experienced fear?
He can handle the fear of himself dying, but not the fear of Rukia dying.
>So you think that if a vision of her stabbing a hollowfied Kaein was put in her head (just like the dead rukia in Byakuya's mind), that wouldn't bother her? Because I'm pretty sure it would.
Why would it? It's something she's already dealt with twice; at that point it's just redundant. The next closest thing would be losing Ichigo, but I think Rukia sincerely believes that Ichigo will die on his own terms; they have that kind of trust in each other.
>>
>>101181330
>Yes it was, thats what the entire conversation has been about
No, thats what you made the conversation about because you couldn't accept anyone being able to handle As Nodt, and now you're just being an ass about it.
>>
>>101181351
>Why would it? It's something she's already dealt with twice; at that point it's just redundant. The next closest thing would be losing Ichigo, but I think Rukia sincerely believes that Ichigo will die on his own terms; they have that kind of trust in each other.
"Dealing with it" is not the same as being over something. Shes past it enough to not be mopey, but she clearly would be bothered by such a harsh visual and reminder. For fucks sake she is still so affected by it that she instantly took to Ichigo just because he looked like Kaein.
>>
>>101181189
>You're gonna try and claim that in Byakuya's years of being a captain and serving in the SS, that hes never experienced fear?
No, I'm claiming he probably hasn't experience traumatization to the extent that Rukia has.

>So you think that if a vision of her stabbing a hollowfied Kaein was put in her head (just like the dead rukia in Byakuya's mind), that wouldn't bother her? Because I'm pretty sure it would.
I mean like, she doesn't feel regret that she stabbed Kaien-dono. The event doesn't bother her as much as it did before. She would freak out about the incident back then, whereas now she would take a calmer approach and understand how things happened the way they did.

If shown a picture of the stabbing, she would be bothered by it, yes. I mean, who wouldn't? But she wouldn't have such a irrational panic attack as Byakuya did since she had already experience that event once before (or rather, twice actually).
>>
How many chapters until Ichigo arrives??????
>>
>>101181439
>but she clearly would be bothered by such a harsh visual and reminder
Its not the same emotion as Byakuya seeing Rukia's corpse for the first time.
>For fucks sake she is still so affected by it that she instantly took to Ichigo just because he looked like Kaein.
That was before she fought Aaroniero.
>>
>>101181532
100
>>
>>101181521
>No, I'm claiming he probably hasn't experience traumatization to the extent that Rukia has.
Hisana...
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I guess it was only a matter of time until two fags turned the thread into shit.
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>>101174724
Now when did Rukia stop giving a fuck about everything?
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>>101181521
>If shown a picture of the stabbing, she would be bothered by it, yes. I mean, who wouldn't? But she wouldn't have such a irrational panic attack as Byakuya did since she had already experience that event once before (or rather, twice actually).
A clear visual image of her stabbing Kaein would definitely jar her enough for an opening. You act like Byakuya broke down and cried when he say rukia's corpse, he just had a momentary tinge of fear and that was enough.

>No, I'm claiming he probably hasn't experience traumatization to the extent that Rukia has.
I'm not even gonna bother responding to this because its so retarded.
>>
>>101181587
He didn't stab Hisana through the face with a katana. She passed away relatively peacefully and he coped with it. Losing Rukia, however, would be breaking his promise to Hisana, and thus is the greater fear. Would you not agree?
>>
>>101181587
Hm, I'd classify that under a different feeling than "pure fear" though. It'd be more like "extreme sadness". This anon >>101181679 has it right
>>
>>101181641
>A clear visual image of her stabbing Kaein would definitely jar her enough for an opening. You act like Byakuya broke down and cried when he say rukia's corpse, he just had a momentary tinge of fear and that was enough.
No, it wouldn't; once again, already had to relive it against Aaroniero.
>I'm not even gonna bother responding to this because its so retarded.
Likewise.
>>
>>101181791
>No, it wouldn't; once again, already had to relive it against Aaroniero.
You think that seeing an exact detailed vision of Kaeins corpse wouldn't affect her at all, even for a moment? The delusion is strong within you.
>>
>>101181679
It's got nothing to do with fear. It's about your claim that Byakuya hasn't experienced trauma to the same degree Rukia has. Losing the love of your life to a premature death, even if he didn't stab her through the gut like Rukia did Kaien, is pretty damn traumatizing.
>>
>>101175288
>>101175288
She's come to realize ichigo has plot armor anon, and has seen him wreck shit through multiple arcs.
He's always been SS ace in the hole and beat fucking Aizen/the more important and OP Espada/Fucking Kenpachi/The bounts fullbringers or whatever the fuck/etc
I would assume some mystical force (Kubo) was watching over bleached strawberries too
>>
>>101181641
Rukia's new form zan is fear based. It has given her insight to fight As Nodt.
>>
>>101181955
That could be interesting but I don't see how she could have a fear based power while still keeping the ice theme.
>>
>>101181955
Maybe it turns her heart to ice.
>>
>>
Just watch, the fight will climax with As Nodt's Vollstandig, which is making his opponent's worst fear take physical form or possibly turning into it himself. Naturally Rukia's worst fear will be Ichigo going completely Hollow.

And then she'll cut right through him without any hesitation, because she has too much faith in Ichigo to be afraid of that anymore.
>>
>>101181641
>You act like Byakuya broke down and cried when he say rukia's corpse, he just had a momentary tinge of fear and that was enough.
But that "momentary tinge of fear" was enough to get beaten up, no? We don't know how much of an opening it would give if used on Rukia, but I'm willing to bet that it won't be as easy as the one on Byakuya.

>I'm not even gonna bother responding to this because its so retarded.
How so? Being forced to kill your beloved mentor is a pretty traumatic thing to go through and so far we haven't seen evidence that Byakuya has been through the same thing. Though that's not to say it's impossible, but just that an example is more compelling than lack of one.
>>
>>101181864
>The delusion is strong within you.
Once again, likewise. You act like Rukia is some kind of mental wreck while she clearly has the upper hand in this fight.
>>101181875
The issue is that he's projected that fear onto the thought of losing Rukia, which *gasp* scares him! Losing anyone probably wouldn't be as bad to Rukia as losing Kaien was, except for maybe Ichigo, but I don't think she could be afraid to lose Ichigo.
>>
>>101182065
>But that "momentary tinge of fear" was enough to get beaten up, no? We don't know how much of an opening it would give if used on Rukia, but I'm willing to bet that it won't be as easy as the one on Byakuya.
What the fuck are you basing this one? Theres absolutely no reason to believe that Rukia is better at handling fear than Byakuya.
>How so?
Its ridiculous to assume that he hasn't experienced fear as much as she has, when hes had many more opportunities to and its been confirmed that hes gone through fear before. Theres just absolutely no reason to think that would be true.
>>
>>101182024
Oh god, it's Frozen all over again.

>As Nodt, you may have fear on your side...
>But I have the power of... LOVE!
>>
>>101182089
>You act like Rukia is some kind of mental wreck while she clearly has the upper hand in this fight.
No, I'm not.
My point
>Rukia isn't immune to all kinds of fear just because she had a traumatic event in her past

Your points
>Rukia is now immune to all types of fear because of one tramautic event
>Byakuya has never had a tramatic event because we've never seen it
Notice how one is perfectly reasonable and one is crazy as fuck.
>>
>>101182212
> its been confirmed that hes gone through fear before
Wow, good job, you win argument.
>Theres absolutely no reason to believe that Rukia is better at handling fear than Byakuya.
>Its ridiculous to assume that he hasn't experienced fear as much as she has
>Theres just absolutely no reason to think that would be true.
Read the manga, please.
>>
>>101182313
So you're saying my point is perfectly reasonable? Thanks, I'll be on my way then.
>>
>>101182368
>Read the manga, please.
Literally nothing in it supports your argument.
>>
>Byakuya
>lived a life of privilege and ease
>every advantage handed to him

>Rukia
>lived a life of suffering
>forced to kill the captain she adored
>put on trial for sins she felt she deserved
>experienced total existential breakdown and truly believed the world would be better off if she disappeared
>had fate changed for her and her belief in herself restored by an unbreakable spirit that defied everything in the universe to rescue her

It's not really that surprising that Rukia is better equipped to deal with fear than Byakuya.
>>
>>101182368
Byakuya directly states that he has overcome fear, and nowhere is it ever contradicted. Theres not a single thing in the entire manga to support that Rukia has been through more fear than him.
>>
I think people are assuming too much from As Nodt's fear. I do not think it is actually fear, he is only stating it is because it is advantageous. I think it'd be a good idea to examine other powers Kubo has shown that are, at least on the surface, emotion-based. The one that springs to mind is niggerbuddha who claimed the power of love and devotion. He quickly explained, that it was actually just controlling limbs.
I suspect As Nodt's power to be similar. There's clearly a reishi component to his power, as Rukia has observed. I very much doubt that As Nodt can directly manipulate a person's emotions, or even give hallucinations like Aizen.
Perhaps something to a chemical weapon? Is this why he deploys solo and wears a mask?
>>
>>101182212
>What the fuck are you basing this one? Theres absolutely no reason to believe that Rukia is better at handling fear than Byakuya.
Rukia's greatest fear: losing Kaien-dono/being forced to kill him/the works. And it's already happened, and been dealt with, to a degree anyways.

Byakuya's greatest fear: Rukia dying. From what I know, hasn't happened yet

>Its ridiculous to assume that he hasn't experienced fear as much as she has, when hes had many more opportunities to and its been confirmed that hes gone through fear before. Theres just absolutely no reason to think that would be true.
Rukia's life, I'd imagine, would be pretty hard to beat in terms of suffering. It's totally possible that Byakuya has experienced just as much fear. But so far, we haven't seen the defining horrific event, and we have Rukia's, so I think it's just easier to go off what is actually shown so far.
>>
>>101182489
>Because we've seen rukia's backstory that means she had it harder than people whos backstory we haven't seen
Nope. Rukia was sheltered as fuck considering shes a shinigami. One incident with Kaein does not trump everything Byakuya has probably gone through in his decades of being a captain.

>Byakuya
>Lived a life with immense pressure and shame if he does anything wrong
>Watches the woman he loves die slowly without being able to do anything to help her

Rukia
>grew up in rukongai (shitty but not even close to something that would help against as nodt's fear)
>taken in by royal family
>put immediately into a squad
>not allowed to be ranked so she doesn't go on dangerous missions
>tramuatic kaein incident
We're not going to bother with the whole execution thing because that was equally hard on both of them.
>>
>>101182532
Byakuya directly states a lot of shit he doesn't really understand. That's kind of a subtle thread of his character.

It's not about whether he's experienced "more" fear than Rukia. The levels they experienced are completely different. Byakuya trained himself to overcome battle fear, the simple, instinctual fight-or-flight reflex than afflicts judgement and freezes you in place. It wasn't enough to counter As Nodt; The Fear isn't simple stark "fear" in the sense of being scared to act. It is the overwhelming dread of hopelessness when you believe that nothing you do can prevent your fears from coming to pass. Rukia has experience dealing with this. Byakuya does not.
>>
>>101182663
Not only are you pulling rukia's greatest fear right out of your ass, you're also assuming that just because it happened means that shes completely over it and would be unaffected by it.
>>
Ok... this bitch fit is getting a little tedious.
>>
>>101182723
>We're not going to bother with the whole execution thing because that was equally hard on both of them
But Byakuya wasn't the one getting executed. Are you dumb? In what world would be equally hard?
>>
>>101182532
You know, except that whole deal with Kaien, but please tell us all about Byakuya's traumatic past.

The funny thing is there's actually a lot to pull from but you don't even know enough about the manga to support your own argument.
>>
>>101182779
>Byakuya directly states a lot of shit he doesn't really understand. That's kind of a subtle thread of his character.
If you are going to make that argument then you could say the same thing about rukia claiming to be fearless and your entire point falls apart.
>It's not about whether he's experienced "more" fear than Rukia. The levels they experienced are completely different. Byakuya trained himself to overcome battle fear, the simple, instinctual fight-or-flight reflex than afflicts judgement and freezes you in place. It wasn't enough to counter As Nodt; The Fear isn't simple stark "fear" in the sense of being scared to act. It is the overwhelming dread of hopelessness when you believe that nothing you do can prevent your fears from coming to pass. Rukia has experience dealing with this. Byakuya does not.
Quit making things up, we have no clue what Byakuya has experienced and its very likely that he has had traumatic events in his past as well. Hes just not a main character so we haven't heard about any of his past.
>>
>>101182823
Then start a new conversation that you'd prefer instead.
>>
>>101182887
>Quit making things up, we have no clue what Byakuya has experienced
We don't need to know what Byakuya "experienced" because it's irrelevant, we're EXPLICITLY TOLD in the manga that the type of fear Byakuya knows how to deal with isn't sufficient to protect him. If you're going to ignore what's actually in the manga to push your own bullshit biases then you've excluded yourself from the argument.
>>
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Rukia's shikia is a pillar to the moon.
Her them is ice and moons.
The moon reflects light.
She used an ice barrier she hasn't used before.
It was a lunar reflective shield.
Like the moon reflects sunlight her shield reflected Mr. Emos fear powers back at him.
He is now facing his worst fear someone who he thinks can't be affected by his powers.
In reality rukia was never hit by his powers.

Now stop arguing about stupid Kubo bait and switches.
God I told you all this like an hour ago on the last thread.
>>
>>101182829
Are you forgetting about the whole thing with him having to help with his sisters execution? After making a promise to the woman he loved about how he would keep her sister safe? He was conflicted between a deathbed promise to his wife, and a promise to his late parents, all while dealing with his sister being executed.
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>>101182948
How about some exploitable?
>>
>>101182795
>Not only are you pulling rukia's greatest fear right out of your ass
It's a huge part of her character arc, so I'd call it a very reasonable assumption.

>you're also assuming that just because it happened means that shes completely over it and would be unaffected by it.
Well, I said >and been dealt with, to a degree anyways.
>>
>>101182795
Because she has, literally, against an opponent who used Kaien's own body against her- a second time! Not only that, it had all of his memories, pretended to be him, and tried to blame his death on Rukia. If you even read the manga you would know all of this and how important it was to Rukia's development in both SS and HM. This is no longer the topic even you should be arguing.
>>
>>101183013
That's pretty good except she isn't moon themed.
>>
>>101183004
>We don't need to know what Byakuya "experienced" because it's irrelevant, we're EXPLICITLY TOLD in the manga that the type of fear Byakuya knows how to deal with isn't sufficient to protect him. If you're going to ignore what's actually in the manga to push your own bullshit biases then you've excluded yourself from the argument.
Holy shit you're dumb, its not irrelevant just because he couldn't overcome As Nodt. If hes been through similar or worse than Rukia (very highly likely), then clearly Rukia wouldn't be able to overcome As Nodt either. Jesus christ just when I think you've said the dumbest thing possible you manage to surprise me.
>>
>People think Rukia is actually fearless because she said so

I mean, it's fine for japanese kids to think this, but really? REALLY?

She's going to win, or she's going to set up the win for another character. I like the idea that As Nodt does not create a fear from whole cloth or have some deep insight to his opponent's psyche to pull out their greatest fear. He simply researches and makes an educated guess about what it might be. At that point, he just uses pheromones/hypnosis/magic to create doubt and uncertainty in his opponent and it's a straight fight from there.

Since Rukia has a reputation for being rescued, AN is probably going to try and make her worry about not having a savior around. I think Byakuya is lurking somewhere using the Quincy's own tricks so Rukia isn't worried about that. So Rukia's just going to bankai and obliterate AN.
>>
>>101183101
You've descended into pure bait and insult tossing territory now. Congrats, you lose.

My only suggestion to you is to read the manga, maybe you'll enjoy it.
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>>101182948
Yoruichi.
Why don't people appreciate her butt more?
>>
>>101183013
Ooh, makes sense!
>>
>>101183061
>Because she has, literally, against an opponent who used Kaien's own body against her- a second time! Not only that, it had all of his memories, pretended to be him, and tried to blame his death on Rukia.
Yes and she was visibly bothered by it you fucking moron. She inevitably won but was still upset at seeing and having to attack Kaein again. You could not be missing the point any harder if you tried.
>>
>>101182948
Fair enough.
Who is the best long forgotten about side character?
>>
>>101183101
>If hes been through similar or worse than Rukia (very highly likely
You're the one pulling shit out of your ass, unless you have an example to cite explicitly you have no facts to argue with.
>>
>>101183143
>completely ignores the actual argument because hes upset at being called out on his stupidity
>does the exact same thing as me except without actually containing any argument
Yeah you sure won.
>>
>>101183084
"Pillar of ice that reaches to the moon"
"A sword so white it is like the moon"
Not to mention swords are based on hearts and she is tripping hard of Ichigo if her sword isn't fully formed it could easily adopt some of his motifs
>>
>>101183129
>People think Rukia is actually fearless because she said so

No, it's called "reading the manga and understanding Rukia's character arc". She's not fearless because she "said so", she's fearless in this situation because we've seen in multiple arcs her development in overcoming these fears.
read the manga bro
>>
>>101178540
fear is not about not feeling it, is about face it and dont give a fuck
>>
>>101183129
No one has said that; the argument here is whether there is a grounds to believe Rukia would not be affected by The Fear as badly as Byakuya was due to previous developments in the story.
>>
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>>101183084
>implying
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>>101183205
Chad

>>101183209
Jesus christ you're dense.

My point
>Byakuya has had much more experience and been in far more dangerous situations that rukia, so its probable that he has gone through as much if not more than rukia

Your point
>Byakuya has definitely not gone through as much as rukia

You're the one whos making a direct claim about something, refuting a stupid claim is not pulling something out of your ass.
>>
>>101183159
>She inevitably won but was still upset at seeing and having to attack Kaein again

No, she won because she was able to overcome her own guilt that she had from originally killing Kaien. I can't tell you another time to Read. The Fucking. Manga.
>>
>>101183213
I understand you're frustrated because people aren't responding to your bait anymore. Just walk away from the computer and take a deep breath. There will be more interesting topics to discuss when you aren't feeling the pressure to shitpost because your idea got shot down. I know it's hard, you want to retaliate against everyone who proved you wrong, but it just leads to thread derailment and running in circles.
>>
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I don't have the wall paper on my hard drive, but just pretend this is Sinestro or something since you faggots won't stop bitching over the same 3 points about fear.
>>
>>101183224
That doesn't make any sense. Overcoming some of your fears does not make you immune to all fears of anything (including irrational fears that you could never possibly overcome)
>>
>>101183214
You could be right. However, only a single of her shikai abilities references the moon. You could talk about the whole black sun/white moon dichotomy but that's not really from her abilities.
Thematically speaking, Rukia is ice and theater. Belying her true nobility and purity.
>>
>>101183323
We have two major arcs that directly support our argument, while all you have is speculation. "Well Byakuya has probably been through worse shit" has been refuted so many times now that its redundant, like the entire premise of your argument.
>>
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>>101183402
What aboutt this?
>>
>>101183356
>oh shit i've completely run out of arguments
>time to call him a troll!
>>
>>101181991
It could have something to do with As Nodt's little joke about fear freezing you in place.
>>
>>101183382
See>>101183281
>>
>>101183382
Rukia isn't "immune to all fear". She's just much better equipped to deal with the type of fear that As Nodt produces. In any other situation, Byakuya might have come out on top, but Rukia has learned over her long character arcs to deal with existential dread better than he can.
>>
>>101183382
Overcoming your fear is more like accepting your fear. The more you believe your fear can come true and the more you fight it, the more it could paralyze you. If you accept that your fear is an outcome and you can handle that outcome, then you can still act regardless of even having that fear.
>>
>>101183402
I'll give you it isn't a perfect connection, but it much more likely than "I'm fearless because i once met a guy that for like ten minutes reminded me of the boyfriend i stabbed."
And it is a much more Kubo thing to do.
>>
>>101175002
Rukia's fear is being weak
she's literally had to face and fight through her fear her entire life.
That's why As Nodt has no effect on her.
Having to kill kaien because she was too weak to save him.
Ichigo becoming a soul reaper because she was too weak to save him
Rukia being taken for execution because she was too weak to stand up to soul society
Rukia being too weak to save Orihime
Rukia's ENTIRE LIFE is being too weak.

Odds are, up in the royal realm, she finally understood that it was that fear of being too weak that always pushed her to be greater, and that fear is a powerful motivator.
>>
>>101174724
I'm just glad to see some of the main supporting characters back.

I think Rukia might have a bankai

>I just want to see Ichigo fight
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>>101183205
>>
Asssnots poison is still spirit particle based I assume it doesn't affect her much because her reiatsu is now ridiculous.
>>
>>101183423
Seriously, you could not be more stupid. You are making the claim that "Rukia has definitely been through worse stuff than Byakuya" and i', saying theres nothing to support that claim. YOU are the one making an assumption based on nothing and I'm telling you to knock it off because Byakuya easily could have as much or more. Do you understand now?
>>
>>101177668
I disagree
one can stuff an entire arm down her throat, and the other one's powerup literally is a wet vagina.
>>
>>101183481
No, thats not what the argument is about. The argument has always been "is rukia immune to fear".
>>
>>101183528
>still not Tatsuki
At least that cow titted lesbian is around anymore, but it's still no even trade.
>>
>>101181679
He hardly even coped with it, really. When you think about it, bringing your dead wife's sister who looks exactly like her isn't exactly "coping".
>>
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>>101183547
I'm not the guy you are fighting with but here is a helpful chart.
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>>101183547
Hey retard, here's a protip: Byakuya has never had to kill the person he loves most with his bare hands. Rukia, in fact, has. Are we done now?
>>
>>101177822
It's just so that he can "lose" to an enemy and allow byakuya to save him without byakuya being canonically stronger than him at this point.
if renji starts losing simply because this opponent had maximum preptime, then his loss says nothing of his strength.
>>
>>101183593
That's not the argument I'm seeing. The argument I'm seeing in this thread is
>HURR DURR ASSPULL MANGA RUKIA SHOULD LOSE THIS IS BULLSHIT GRANDPA HURRRRR

No one rational is arguing that she is "immune to fear". The people throwing a fit are ones who think this chapter doesn't make sense, because they haven't been reading the manga adequately.
>>
>>101183593
If that is what you think this argument has been about, despite numerous posts to the contrary, you're clinically retarded.
>>
>>101183323
>Byakuya has had much more experience and been in far more dangerous situations that rukia, so its probable that he has gone through as much if not more than rukia

Yeah, maybe, but imagine a firefighter of 5 years who was at Ground Zero vs a firefighter of 20 years who works the suburbs and sees 5-10 regular fires a year.
>>
These people arguing about life experiences of Rukia and Byakuya are missing the point and are being taken away on Kubo's magic ruse. You're hyper examining R and B because you know them so well. However, you should be examining As Nodt and the unknown nature of his ability. Or perhaps, you're too afraid.
>>
>>101183626
>implying I can't throw in insults while I'm refuting the central point.

>>101183639
>Hey retard, here's a protip: Byakuya has never had to kill the person he loves most with his bare hands. Rukia, in fact, has. Are we done now?
That literally means nothing in what we are talking about. Or are you saying that killing your mentor is the absolute worst fear anyone could ever experience and thus nothing anyone else could experience could possibly be as bad. Byakuya had to arrest and sentence to execution the person he loved most, and in the past had to watch the person he loved most slowly die while not being able to do anything.
>>
>>101183710
I actually fully expect Nodt to have another trump card up his sleeve, but unfortunately the Sternritter have already been confirmed fodder villains to power up Ywach so there's only so far he can take it.
>>
>>101183710
Yeah, this whole thread is just wild speculation that'll never come to agreement, and both sides are gonna be wrong come next week. But what else is there to do here?
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>>101183606
I doubt we will see her for a while unless they decide that she was powers out of the blue. I mean fuck we've been in Soul Society for the past 2 years.
>>
>>101183682
Then you should pay more attention because the entire argument has been about whether shes immune to fear. No one has been arguing anything about rukia losing.

>>101183691
Thats what the argument was always about since the thread started. I know because I was in it at the very beginning and thats what people were saying.

One side is
>Rukia has overcome her fear due to Kaein and is now immune to fear

The other side is
>Rukia is still susceptible to primal/true fear.
>>
>>101183639
>Byakuya has never had to kill the person he loves most with his bare hands. Rukia, in fact, has.
What's more, Rukia technically did it twice.
First with the possessed Kaien, then an imposter who looked and sounded exactly like Kaien, fought exactly like Kaien, acted pretty much like Kaien until the big reveal, then revealed that she really was fighting Kaien's spirit body in a fashion.
>>
>>101182723
>sheltered as fuck
>lived in the slums for who knows how long
>as a child

nah, fuck you.
>>
>>101183787
Anyone who spends a significant amount of time around Ichigo gets powers, remember.
>>
>>101183547
>theres nothing to support that claim.
It's called "Rukia's entire character development across her flashbacks, the Soul Society arc, the Hueco Mundo arc etc". We don't need to know just what Byakuya's been through. It's irrelevant: we're told in the manga that whatever Byakuya went through, it didn't prepare him to deal As Nodt. That is exactly what happened.

On the other hand, we're now told that Rukia CAN deal with As Nodt. Why? It will likely be clarified in the next few chapters, but we don't need it: All the reasons are laid out for us already in the story. We HAVE intimately followed Rukia's development and seen the depths of fear and despair she's had to overcome, and the better person she became because of it.
>>
>>101183702
>vs a firefighter of 20 years who works the suburbs and sees 5-10 regular fires a year.
Theres no reason to assume that Byakuya had a breezey career as a shinigami.
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>>101183782
post lewd pictures of Yoruichi and Rukia like always I guess...
>>
>>101183807
>Then you should pay more attention because the entire argument has been about whether shes immune to fear.
Again, no one rational is arguing that. If you're contributing to that argument then you are part of the problem.
>>
>>101183825
You're really overestimating how bad Rukongai was. Yes she had a shitty childhood but there was nothing in it that would give her any advantage against As Nodt's power.
>>
>>101183828
That's true, but I don't know if she had "significant" amount of time around him. I feel like they would have already incorporated her into the story more if she did.
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>>101183854
5-10 fires a year isn't exactly breezy either. In 200 fires, you're bound to see some shit.
>>
>>101183884
Thats been the entire argument you buffoon. Pay more attention and scroll back up to the top of the thread if you need to.
>>
>>101183715
It's been a confirmed plot point for years now that killing Kaien was the worst thing Rukia had ever done- disputing this is not applicable. If Byakuya had truly feared the execution he would have done something about it, but the truth is he was more afraid of betraying himself and his morals.The problem is that you're argument has been at a dead end since the start. If you're right, then Rukia should already be dead by now, or at least be in much more pain. If we're right, then you have the last panel of this chapter. You're welcome.
>>
What the fuck is this argument.

I'd say this was the most retarded argument I've seen in a Bleach thread but sadly I don't even think it's in the top 10
>>
>>101183833
You're still makking a ton of fucking assumptions. Rukia talking trash does not confirm that she is immune to fear in any way.
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>>101183992
This is nothing like the great Old Zan and Bach war of early summer.
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>>101184012
Because that's so like Rukia to talk trash when she has nothing to back it up with...

God, some people.
>>
>>101183402
There's a few parallels between Rukia and Kaguya Hime
>>
>>101174724
We already know who's going to step in to beat the shit out of The Grudge. unless Rukia pulls out some bullshit where she can circumvent irrational fear(I wouldn't be surprised) this would be a perfect time to reintroduce Kenpachi.

>implying any kind of fear would work on Kenny
>>
>>101183772
Superstar still had some subtlety to his ability. It was presented in a nice, reserved manner. If we were in HM we'd have this fight drawn out to 3 chapters at least and people would say it was great - instead we get just a blurb; but a blurb that is incredibly concise. The insight gained into the nature of the sternritter and also Bach was immense. It just wasn't put under the spotlight, like most of what Kubo does. I feel like /a/'s reaction to As Nodt will be similar. The people involved have so much more history and reader investment, they'll always overshadow the villain.

That's the biggest weakness I see in the last few threads. Too much focus on our heroes when the villains are saying so much more.
>>
>>101183978
>If you're right, then Rukia should already be dead by now, or at least be in much more pain. If we're right, then you have the last panel of this chapter. You're welcome.
You must be joking. Nothing we've seen from their fight so far is indicative of anything. She can still easily feel fear OR end up being immune to it later on. Byakuya was still fine much further along into his fight, so saying something like "then Rukia should already be dead by now" makes no sense whatsoever. Byakuya didn't instantly buckle under the fear and theres no reason to think that she would either.
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>>101183992
This. I don't even know what people are arguing over anymore. Something about whether Rukia fears something. Then it's about her tragic backstory. Then powerlevel and more speculah.
>>
>>101183905
78th district
Remember, Yachiru grew up in the very next district, and described it as a place where babies would get stepped on and killed and all that crap.
>>
>>101184065
People talk meaningless trash constantly in bleach.
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>>101184155
Yeah, she had a hard life on the streets, but that doesn't even come close to the kind of shit As Nodt comes at you with.
>>
>>101183854
Basically, it's like this: we had an actual event from the manga that has practically scarred Rukia for life, and we know that she's been forced to deal with it several times already. We haven't been given an equivalent for Byakuya yet, so that's why you can't really say anything about it. Yes yes Byakuya has had fear; everyone does. But has he had that terrible terrible event?

So it's not an evidence vs. counterevidence, but rather evidence vs lack thereof
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Remember when stuff actually happened in each Bleach chapter? You know, maybe there's some dialogue and mindblowing and clever banter/intimidation, and then there's some action to accompany them?

Remember pic related? This page has more material in it than 1.5 chapters of Bleach today.
>>
>>101183905
And you're wildly overestimating how bad Byakuya's childhood was. We've seen NOTHING so far to assume he's dealt with anything other than "OMG why am I so cool and strong fuck man" while Rukia had to deal with the fear of dying every day as a child in a shithole slum. And that's not even getting into the entire Kaien thing.

I'm not the other guys, and I'm not implying Rukia's immune to fear. But it's defiantly clear she's better equipped to deal with life threatening, instinctual fear than Byakuya.

None of this is going to matter anyways, it's either going to be her reflecting it back with her ice powers (highly doubtful) or another TOO STRONK DOESN'T MATTER LEL deal.
>>
>>101184135
some faggot is saying you can't get through grudge's fear through logic, as we saw byakuya succumb to it. then another anon went to say that the fear byakuya felt was him feeling it for the first real time, whereas rukia has been facing it throughout the entire series so she isn't as affected by it. then former anon went on to say that it just doesn't work like that and it's been just a back and forth of that
>>
>>101184243
But we're not debating whether or not Byakuya has had an equivalent. You're claiming that he hasn't and I'm refuting it because theres a good chance he has. Its baseless statement versus stop making a baseless statement.
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>>101184135
Welcome to Bleach threads.
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>>101184096
Ken's greatest fear is either losing, or never finding an opponent to truly test him.

either way, I think that would unlock his maximum potential.
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>>101183961
Then it's a shit argument and you should stop shitting up the thread by contributing to it.

Stop propagating that nonsense and contribute to the real discussions instead.
>>
>>101184319
Thats not what happened at all, it went more like this.
>Rukia is fearless because of Kaein
>No shes not
>Yes she is
>blah blah blah
>>
>>101184096
>kenpachi avenging his best friend Byakuya
yes please
>>
>>101184319
Well, that's just stupid.

We don't even know what Rukia's fear IS yet, or what kind of trauma/damage it induces. Everyone posting ITT is stupid, including me for bothering to post this. Fuck it I'm done, see you all next week.
>>
>>101184380
Why are you even commenting and giving advice if you have no clue as to what the actual argument is about and thus clearly haven't been following it?
>>
>>101184012
>Rukia talking trash does not confirm that she is immune to fear in any way.

Nobody is making the claim that "Rukia is immune to fear". Read this thread. Read it. Scroll up and read it. You haven't been reading it. You're believing things because you want to fight on the internet without having actually read the thread.
>>
>>101184275
You're misunderstanding whats happening. I'm not trying to claim that Byakuya has had worse than Rukia, thats the opposite of what happens. Quick recap for you since you're a new guy
>guy says that rukia has been through much worse than byakuya and is better equipped to deal with fear
>I say theres no basis for that and that byakuya could easily have gone through as much or more than rukia
>guy claims that theres no way byakuya has possibly gone through as much because we didn't see it on screen
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>>101184493
You must be joking, thats what the entire argument has been about. Why don't you try scrolling up? That guys entire fucking point is that Rukia has overcome her fears and thus isn't susceptible to As Nodt's power.
>>
>>101184441
What exactly do you get out of shitposting and derailing Bleach threads?
>>
>>101184319
green lantern comics had this argument YEARS ago
Fear paralyzes
understanding what causes fear doesn't prevent you from fearing it.
But fear can motivate people like nobody's business.

Rukia's fear of losing others drives her to fight, not to flee.
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Anyone else think of Psycho Mantis' voice this chapter?
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>>101184573
I'm not the guy shitposting. What exactly do you get by jumping into the middle of a conversation you didn't read and throwing out insults?
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>>101184329
And that's precisely where your claim is baseless you incredibly dense fuck.
His true fear was Rukia dying. That's what he saw, that's what he feared in the fight against As Nodt. He didn't deal with that ever before. 'There might be something else' does not prove ANYTHING within the context we're given in the manga. AT ALL. Not to mention, if there was, what would the fucking point of having that scene be then?
You clearly lack evidence and you're trying to use a lack thereof and shitty speculation about how hardened Byakuya 'must be' against true fear when for all intents of purposes we saw what that was and he wasn't prepared for it/hadn't overcome that fear in the slightest.
Occam's Razor much?
>>
>>101184363
kenpachi isn't afraid of losing though, in fact he'd probably embrace it because he doesn't give a shit if he dies in battle, as long as it was a good fight.

him not finding an opponent to match him would definitely be his biggest fear, but he doesn't fight or feel emotions like normal people do. like in his fight in the SS arc with Tousen in complete nothingness. I can't see a better match for as nodt than kenpachi.

although thinking about it more it probably will be Rukia who defeats him because it would line up with her entire character progression throughout the series
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>>101184580
The problem is that As Nodt's whole schtick is about how his fear is irrational and can't be overcome by understanding. If it could Byakuya would have already killed him.
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>>101184169
Not even trying anymore...
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>>101184528
Well, we haven't. It's kinda of silly to just assume stuff. Someone could also make the assumption that Chad is really the Soul King and has 40 dicks and thirty assholes, because we haven't seen it,

Okay that may have been a bit of an exaggeration but do you get what I mean? The evidence points to Byakuya having lived a very sheltered life while Rukia has seen sum shit, and it's hard to say that he's been through worse, because we don't have any evidence. Of course it's possible, we don't know yet. We'll see more in the next couple of chapters.
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>>101184672
How do you not get this? You're purely talking about whether or not Byakuya has experienced enough fear to overcome As Nodt's power, which we've obviously seen he doesn't. What I'm saying is that its entirely possible that rukia is even LESS equipped than Byakuya was, and that theres no way of knowing because we don't know Byakuya's past. You're the one making the baseless claim and I'm telling you not to, I'm not making any kind of claim.
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>>101184702
>fear is irrational and can't be overcome by understanding
The entirety of humanity's progress would beg to differ - hell by that logic bravery isn't even a thing.
The difference is one was exposed directly to their fear and one wasn't. You want to claim bad writing? Sure, just know that you and maybe BA will be the only ones stupid enough not to figure it out.
>>
>>101184702
And As Nodt's a lying fuck who likely won't make it another two chapters. With Ywach in the picture there are much bigger fish to fry.
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>>101174941

>Why does he wear the mask?!
Reverse Trap.
>>
>>101184729
>he evidence points to Byakuya having lived a very sheltered life while Rukia has seen sum shit
No, it doesn't. Nothing points to Byakuya having a more sheltered life than her. And anyway, you're mistaken as to what assumption is going on. I'm not assuming that Byakuya definitely has had a worse life, I'm telling that other guy to stop assuming that Rukia has had a worse life.
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>>101184789
>You're the one making the baseless claim and I'm telling you not to
>What I'm saying is that its entirely possible that rukia is even LESS equipped than Byakuya was, and that theres no way of knowing because we don't know Byakuya's past
Nearly the same breath you insinuate something with no ground whatsoever in the context of the manga.
I'm almost entirely convinced you're being this stupid on purpose. And you ALREADY conceded the point that Byakuya hadn't experienced shit regarding true fear and that's how he lost, yet you have the nerve to insinuate the character that's been mourning and repenting for half the manga must be less equipped.
>>
>>101184569
No, that's only what idiots who don't pay attention think the argument has been about. The real argument that the rational folk have been discussing was "does this chapter make sense, any why?". Only baiters and shitposters who can't even read on the 0th level have been babbling nonsense like HURR WHY SHE IMMUNE TO FEAR DURR
>>
>>101184794
>The entirety of humanity's progress would beg to differ - hell by that logic bravery isn't even a thing.
We aren't talking about actual, real life fear, we're talking about a fictional magic power.

>>101184812
Same exact argument could be made about rukia calling herself fearless only she has less information to go on then As Nodt does.
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>>101184789
>its entirely possible that rukia is even LESS equipped than Byakuya was, and that theres no way of knowing because we don't know Byakuya's past.

Completely irrelevant. The manga told us so. Read the manga. No, I'm serious, this isn't just a casual insult or bait. Read. The. Manga. It's very clear to anyone who did that you did not.
>>
>>101184841
But we've seen her living in shitty slums as a child. And Byakuya has always been a noble. We've even seen him dicking off with Yoruichi as a child. Of course it's possible he's seen sum shit too, I'm just saying that, with our current knowledge, it's easier to infer that Rukia has seen more, thus desensitizing her to fear after awhile.

Like I said, it'll probably be a muh spirit power thing anyway
>>
>>101184908
So let me get this straight, your argument is
>It's fear
>but it's magic this time
Okay, the character is magically resolute. Also a reaper of souls and for all intents and purposes a spiritual manifestation. She's fictionally resistant to this fictional power because of all the magic fear she's experienced in her magic past.
What are you even doing anymore?
>>
>>101184908
So when we talk about Bleach fire we can't assume that it burns things, because its Bleach magic fire?

And note Rukia never calls herself fearless, she asks if Nodt is afraid of someone who doesn't have fear. The point is that one way or another she's found a way around his ability.
>>
>>101184887
How could you possibly not get this. I'M NOT MAKING ANY CLAIM ABOUT WHO HAS EXPERIENCED MORE FEAR, I'M TELLING YOU TO STOP MAKING CLAIMS LIKE THAT BECAUSE THERE IS NO BASIS FOR IT.

>And you ALREADY conceded the point that Byakuya hadn't experienced shit regarding true fear and that's how he lost, yet you have the nerve to insinuate the character that's been mourning and repenting for half the manga must be less equipped.
Okay you must be trolling now. I never said that Byakuya hadn't experience fear, just that his experience wasn't enough to overcome As Nodt's power. It could very easily be true that Byakuya experienced even more trauma than Rukia and still lost. NOTE THAT I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT HE HAS, JUST SAYING THAT ITS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE AND THAT YOU SHOULDN'T RULE IT OUT.
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>this thread
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>>101185040
>So when we talk about Bleach fire we can't assume that it burns things, because its Bleach magic fire?
Not even close to the same thing.

>As Nodt says that his fear isn't rational and can't be logic'd through
>anon claims that must not be true because of the progress of humanity
>I say that its a fictional magic power and thus different from the real world fear that humanity has over come.
It would be like asking why they don't just put out Bazz B with a fire extinguisher because it works so well for firefighters.
>>
>>101184687
I think most of us can agree that we just want to see Kenny come back and wreck some shit soon.
>>
>>101185047
>Hey guys stop having theories! No speculation allowed!
>Now here's my basis speculation as to why you're totally and completely wrong.
>>
>>101185047
>I'M NOT MAKING ANY CLAIM ABOUT WHO HAS EXPERIENCED MORE FEAR, I'M TELLING YOU TO STOP MAKING CLAIMS LIKE THAT BECAUSE THERE IS NO BASIS FOR IT.
okay
Lets see
>Rukia's whole interaction with the Shibas in SS arc
>her reaction whenever somebody likens Ichigo to Kaien
>the entirety of the flashback during Aaeroneiro's fight, the reason she was completely paralyzed against him and ending in her overcoming it
Compared to the current knowledge we have of Byakuya within the context of the manga
>is a noble and born into it
>the 'true fear' that was shown was Rukia dying, which he never had to deal with
>n-no there must be something else that Byakuya's experienced that is much worse and for SOME REASON it didn't even come to him when As Nodt attacked!
Yes, WE'RE being unreasonable.
You're the one making the baseless claim. Either refute with what actually happens in the manga or shut up.
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>>101185164
>Kenny
He's dead son.
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>>101185179
I sincerely hope you're trolling because thats the exact opposite of whats happening.
>>
>>101185161
You do realize every single Bleach character who's ever explained their ability has it exploited and thus lose the battle? There's no reason to take Nodt's word at face value, or any reason why someone couldn't figure out a way to counter it, as Rukia clearly has.
>>
>>101185215
>You're the one making the baseless claim
No, i'm not because i'm not making any claim you fucking retard. You made a baseless claim and then I said theres no way to know if its true or not. "Theres no way to know if its true or not" is not a bold claim in any way. You're the one thats trying to definitively say something when we only have half of the relevant information.
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>>101185239
Says the person who lost their argument hours ago.
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>>101185161
>>101185179
>>101185215
>>101185239
>>101185277
>>101185317
>>101185321

What are you faggots trying to get out of this? What does the winner get? "Fuck yeah I fucking told that random stranger on the Internet!" Jesus.
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>>101184672
>His true fear was Rukia dying.
What was this then?
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>>101185277
>There's no reason to take Nodt's word at face value
The same goes for rukia's comments as well. You can't dismiss one as a lie/bluff but automatically believe the other just because shes your waifu.
>>
>>101185356
I guess he really fucking hates bugs. I freak out if I see a cockroach or house centipede too.
>>
>>101185317
What does it matter? Rukia has clearly already overcome As Nodt's ability. It's not even a "maybe"; that's like saying Mask isn't dead while staring at his charred body. Regardless of how or why you're just going to call Kubo shenanigans and do it all over again next week.

Want to know how I know this? Because the same people have been doing it every week for the past 5 years. Happy Bleach day everyone.
>>
>>101185353
Because I'm tired of the insane rukia fanboying and the claims that shes now "immune to all fear"
>>
>>101185317
Now you've stopped trying to defend your point altogether and stooped to defending yourself solely.
Baseless doesn't translate to 'there's always a possibility that might oppose it but there's no way to prove it'. How delusional can you get, where you're trying to refute evidence in the source material with supposition?
>>101185356
The page just before >>101178203
, after he made Byakuya 'fear', he likened fear to bugs creeping up his body. As Nodt brought that up. And since Byakuya was right where he wanted him...
>>
>>101185164
>Implying Kubo didn't just forget
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>>101185447
>insane rukia fanboying
How new are you

>the claims that shes now "immune to all fear"
Never mind, troll confirmed.
>>
>>101185447
Not a single person has made that statement; if you want to resort to strawmen do it on /v/. The simple truth is that As Nodt's ability was over exaggerated and you took it at face value.
>>101185407
A bluff? She shrugged off his attack like nothing, and writing it off as a bluff is being ignorant of the entire manga.
>>
I hope next weak she goes bankai and her bankai transforms her into some kind of ice beast or something that has no emotions and thus, no fear, and that's why she said that.

Instead of some bullshit "I'm immune to your fear inducing abilities because I've been through shit" (AND THIS IS WHAT HALF OF THE GUYS IN THIS THREAD ARE SAYING, THAT'S IT, I'VE READ THE WHOLE THING. THEY'RE HOPING FOR A PLOT WITH THIS MUCH FAGGOTRY)
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>>101175002

First time I read that chapter, I thought the hand (pic related) was her sister, Hisana. What she would be afraid of because of that; I have no idea
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>>101185421
I think this is what the argument is, that the fear As Nodt makes others experience is like a phobia or nightmare, it's irrational and instinctual. So its hallucinating rotting corpses or bugs or maybe falling, those sorts of things, rather than something as specific and well thought out as your buddy dying or whatever.
>>
FACT (1):
>Byakuya's experiences overcoming fear did not prepare him to deal with As Nodt.

FACT (2):
>Rukia is able to withstand As Nodt somehow.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
>Rukia has had a long character development across multiple arcs of the series where she was forced to deal with issues of fear, powerlessness, worthlessness, self-hate, existential dread
>We have seen over the course of the manga, in intimate detail, the levels of growth she acquired by confronting these issues both on her own and with the help of her friends

UNEXAMINED INFORMATION:
>Byakuya's past and the depths of fear he may or may not have experienced

WELL-CONSTRUCTED HYPOTHESIS:
>Rukia's experiences better prepared her to deal with As Nodt, allowing her a level of management over the type of fear he exudes that Byakuya was not able to obtain

COROLLARY:
>Whatever Byakuya's experiences were are irrelevant, as the manga tells us that whatever he experienced was not enough to help (see Fact 1)

SPECULATION LACKING EVIDENCE:
>byakuya must have had a harder life and experienced worse fears than Rukia because [no information available]

FAILURE TO PROPERLY EXAMINE FACTS:
>wtf why is rukia immune to fear, this is bullshit
>what an asspull kubo
>>
>>101185447
>immune to all fear
I'd like to draw your attention to the beginning of the thread >>101176425
>>101176095
>>101175679
>>101177102
>>101178501
The terms used were 'counter', 'deal with', 'resistant', 'beat'. Doesn't equal to 'immune to all'. You're spazzing at an invisible nonexistent enemy and everyone's calling you out on how factually baseless your claim is.
Kind of like the orihime shitposter.
>>
>>101185591
>Hisana
I thought it was just As Nodt being a creep.

>>101185631
Go to bed.
>>
>>101185590
Honestly, I can put up with this shit because of how much fun next week is going to be.
>What? Visards lost fucking bullshit
>Renji won a fight? Jesus Kubo stop writing manga
>Bach is Jesus? Totally out of left field dropped forever.

Literally every week.
>>
>>101185591
When you wish upon a monkey paw.
>>
>>101185662
I am now in fact, thanks. Good night!
>>
>>101185591
That'd actually be interesting if it was, I think. It'd be a good way to wrap everything up with the Kuchikis.
>>101185631
Just remember this is going to happen every week
>>
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More Rukia or Soi-Fong stuff please
>>
>>101185631
This, and >>101185636
thank you.

Now imagine what this thread would look like if we invited the tripfriends.
>>
>>101185786
Thank god LoN isn't here.
>>
>>101185631
>WELL-CONSTRUCTED HYPOTHESIS:
>Rukia's experiences better prepared her to deal with As Nodt, allowing her a level of management over the type of fear he exudes that Byakuya was not able to obtain

Last. Three. Panels:
>>101178203
>>
>>101185811
At least with LoN you know what to expect.
>>
>>101185742
>It'd be a good way to wrap everything up with the Kuchikis.
There's potential for some major Kubo twisting there. I'm more inclined to believe Rukia's whole backstory is going to unravel really messily.
>>
i cant believe people are arguing about this so much. its not like there has not been some bullshit powers or powerups in bleach befoe
>>
>>101185445
>What does it matter? Rukia has clearly already overcome As Nodt's ability. It's not even a "maybe";
Delusional as fuck.
>>
>>101185811
I'm sure his explanation would somehow involve Rukia's Quincy background and As Nodt also secretly being Byakuya's long lost brother.

I'm just kidding LoN, seriously just a joke.
>>
Everybody in this thread is retarded. We have no evidence that As Nodt attack didn't work on Rukia considering the chapter ended 1 page after she was hit. Also remember when As Nodt was fighting Byakuya it took a little bit for the ability to completely work on Byakuya. We have literally no idea how this will effect Rukia yet all we can do is wait until next week.
>>
>>101185562
>Not a single person has made that statement; if you want to resort to strawmen do it on /v/. The simple truth is that As Nodt's ability was over exaggerated and you took it at face value.
Thats what the entire argument was about you simple fuck. Try actually reading an argument before you jump in and take a side thats arguing a retarded point.
>>
>>101185915
>As Nodt also secretly being Byakuya's long lost brother
He did seem a lot more attached to his stolen Bankai than the others...

It all makes sense now
>>
>>101185912
>>101185871

Just keep posting, it can't make you any more wrong.
>>
>>101185631
>FACT (2):
>>Rukia is able to withstand As Nodt somehow.
This is not a fact whatsoever.
>>
>>101185951
Haha, good one. I haven't left this thread since I joined in from the one prior.
>>
>>101185972
Those aren't even both the same person you moron.
>>
>>101185915
Guys, I think this anon is onto something
>>
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>>101185769
nah
>>
>>101185989
I guess you didn't read the most recent chapter. Go check it out, it's on MangaPanda right now!
>>
>>101185989
Yeah Kubo just throws in random bullshit at the end of every chapter because well, you know, theres never any sort of foreshadowing whatsoever.
>>
>>101185636
>Kind of like the orihime shitposter.
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW
>>
>>101185960
>>101186054
Oh come you guys... :)
>>
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>>101186068
It looked to me like she froze and let go of her sword.
>>
>>101176492

Espada 9, not 10.
>>
>>101186068
>>101186072
So because Rukia is confident in her new abilities shes confirmed as being able to withstand all of his abilities? Its not a fact until she actually withstands some of his attacks instead of just talking about it.
>>
>>101186122
Keep reading, the chapter gets even better!
>>
>>101176600

She's not Captain class without Bankai. She's fine as a VC.
>>
>>101184702
right, only INSTINCT can overcome it
Rukia's instinct to protect is greater than her instinct for self survival
hence fear kicks her into action, not into paralysis.
>>
>>101186033
Then maybe you should pay more attention to whose arguments you take up because you took up a retarded one.
>>
>>101185972
I (the guy who told you to read the last three panels) am another person. This is my second post in this thread, the first being >>101185590 .

You are hoping for a retarded solution to the problem that's close in bullshit levels to "power of friendship and love". Why is that so? In those last three panels (which I'm pretty sure you didn't read) Nodt explains clearly that you can't overcome his ability through "willpower and experience". You're saying she is able to overcome it because of her experience. You are expecting a shitty plot, and if you're right next week, it will not mean that you're smarter than other people, it'll just mean that Kubo's as shallow as you.
>>
>>101186155
Since when is Nodt's main gimmick (the one which rekt Byakuya) not an attack? If you can't see where this fight is going I'd suggest rereading the entire manga from chapter 1.
>>
Nice Bleach thread, guys
>>
>>101186201
Finally a sane person.

>Byakuya says he has overcome fear
>As Nodt says it doesn't matter
>Beats Byakuya
>People say rukia has overcome fear
>This is somehow going to work better than when byakuya did it because ruki/a/ is love
>>
>>101186162
She then psychs him out. I'm not reading it as her being able to resist his powers, but using her wits to put him at a similar disadvantage.
>>
Didn't Rukia literally deal with a boss who used fear like in mexico?


Is this her new gimick?
>>
>>101186155
>So because Rukia is confident in her new abilities
Not her abilities. Confident in herself as a person, and experienced at making it through the depths of fear and growing stronger as a result.

>shes confirmed as being able to withstand all of his abilities
Parroting that same strawman. No one is claiming she's immune to fear or can withstand ALL of his abilities. The only reason this argument is occuring is because you (or folks like you) are apparently upset that she didn't immediately become crippled and lose the fight in one chapter

>Its not a fact until she actually withstands some of his attacks instead of just talking about it
Then there's no reason to be so angry about this chapter. You have only to wait until next week to see what happens. Why raise such a stink about her being "immune" now if you admit that nothing is confirmed yet? Answer: Because you like internet fights.
>>
>>101186240
So you're telling me that you have the exact details of the entire fight between Rukia and As Nodt figured out so far? If so then post it so I can have a laugh when its wrong.

>>101186304
>Didn't Rukia literally deal with a boss who used fear like in mexico?
No, his gimmick was unlimited growth.
>>
>>101186197
I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.
>>101186201
Looks like someone is going to be disappointed in Bleach next week, and likely every week after that.
>>
>>101183013
Not bad, Level 4 Kubo reading. Or was it Level 1? I forget the Kubo insight reading levels.
>>
>>101186299
>I'm not reading it as her being able to resist his powers
What we've seen of As Nodt's powers cripple a person to complete inactivity due to succumbing to the depths of fear. The fact that she's still able to smacktalk IS an indication that she's resisting him.

Now, if you don't read Bleach on the 0th level, you'll know that they're actually going to go back and forth for several chapters with the advantage changing hands before the battle is ultimately resolved. Don't worry, keep reading. You'll get there eventually.
>>
>>101186334
>No, his gimmick was unlimited growth.
And no H-books about that,,,
>>
>>101186310
Its funny how you have no perspective at all on how this conversation went. I'm not the one making claims, I'm telling the other guy to stop making claims because we don't know yet.

>Parroting that same strawman
So an exact quote from you is a strawman? "Fact (2): Rukia is able to withstand As Nodt somehow" This is an exact quote, yet now you try to say no one ever said that.
>>
>>101186334
I would but I've already posted it in 95% of this thread, although I doubt I'm the one who'll be disappointed next week.

Also he used Kaien against Rukia, which I think is what the other person is referring to.
>>
>>101186436

It means powerlevel growth not literal growth.
>>
>>101186341
>I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.
Considering I was the guy who originally posted and then people started arguing with me, I think I have a better understanding of what the argument is about than some guy who jumps in and takes a side without even knowing what that side is.
>>
>>101186445
>I'm telling the other guy to stop making claims
Who?
>>
>>101186383
>What we've seen of As Nodt's powers cripple a person to complete inactivity due to succumbing to the depths of fear. The fact that she's still able to smacktalk IS an indication that she's resisting him.
She stops moving and drops her sword, so she is being affected. When the same attacks happened to Byakuya he kept his sword in his hand and even used his bankai, so maybe this proves he could resist it even more?
>>
>>101186445
>I'm not the one making claims, I'm telling the other guy to stop making claims because we don't know yet.

I don't know why you think this is any better, or why you think it gives you any advantage in a discussion.
>>
>>101186448
His gimmick wasn't fear though, he was just trying to mind fuck her because it happened to work out well for him.
>>
Well the first thread was nice; but as usual everything on /a/ turns to liquid shit after a few hours.
>>
>>101186445
>other guy
I don't know how hard it is for you to believe that more than one person thinks you're wrong, but I'll chime in for you.
As the last page of the latest chapter shows one can safely assume, using the manga as a source, that Rukia can withstand the attack somehow.
If you want to wait to see if your supposition that she cannot happens next issue you are free to do so. But there's nothing wrong with that claim 'fact 2' as of right now.
>>
>>101186522
You
>Stop making baseless claims
Me
>I'm not making baseless claims, i'm telling other people to stop making them
You
>Well why would you tell people to stop making baseless claims?

This has to be intentional right?
>>
>>101186486
I've been part of this discussion for at least two threads now, and I've been here since the beginning of this one. The fact that you think this is the first time anyone has discussed this today makes you an even bigger retard than you already were to begin with.
>>
>>101186383
>first page of new chapter is Rukia thinking, "Shit, this is bad".
Calling it.
>>
>>101186445
>failure to interpret argument correctly

Fact:
>Rukia is able to withstand As Nodt's current level of fear abilities

Currently Unknown:
>Rukia is able to withstand ALL of As Nodt's abilities (as you complain).
He hasn't released his quincykai yet.

Poor argument/Baseless Complaint:
>Rukia is immune to all fear
This is bait.
>>
>>101186565
>I don't know how hard it is for you to believe that more than one person thinks you're wrong, but I'll chime in for you.
I said other guy because it clearly wasn't you, which means I obviously know theres more than one person arguing with me. Jesus christ you're dumb.
>>
>>101186527
I won't disagree with that.
>>101186583
Just because you didn't make the original claim doesn't mean you've been making even more retarded claims to refute it. Which is what you've been doing for the majority of this discussion.
>>
>>101186588
>The fact that you think this is the first time anyone has discussed this today makes you an even bigger retard than you already were to begin with.
What do other arguments on a similar subject have to do with what this argument is about? Oh wait nothing whatsoever.
>>
>>101186383
>What we've seen of As Nodt's powers cripple a person to complete inactivity due to succumbing to the depths of fear. The fact that she's still able to smacktalk IS an indication that she's resisting him.

No Byakuya was also talking perfectly fine and tried to resist his fear until As Nodt explained that Byakuya can't just resist or ignore his fear. Meanwhile Rukia dropped her sword as soon as she was hit.
>>
>>101186598
Dude, I'm the one trying to say that she ISN'T immune to all fear. No one is arguing that rukia is going to overcome his abilities and win, the entire argument has been about whether she is susceptible to his attacks or not.
>>
>>101186674
Actually it's been the exact same discussion going on all day; in fact, check some other Bleach forums and the arguments on both sides are nearly identical.
>>
>>101186670
>Just because you didn't make the original claim doesn't mean you've been making even more retarded claims to refute it. Which is what you've been doing for the majority of this discussion.
"We don't know if byakuya or rukia has experienced more fear" is not a retarded claim. If you think it is you need to have your brain examined, because thats as neutral of a statement as you can get.
>>
Thread status: Trolled Hard
>>
>>101186783
The himefats win again.
>>
>>101186746
You really need to stop flip flopping
>You claim the argument isn't about if shes immune or not
>I tell you that it is
>You say that its been the same discussion all day and the arguments are nearly identical
So is no one saying it or have people been saying it for two days straight? Make up your mind.
>>
>>101186783
Well at least you finally admitted you were trolling the whole time.
>>
>>101186624
Well clearly you don't given you were asking 'me' to stop making baseless claims maybe 30 posts ago until you spazzed out on me with capslock. And you abandoned the point again to defend yourself, which kind of says volumes about the rest.
As was pointed out earlier, everyone had been saying she beat the attack. There's nothing to contradict this, you can only suppose otherwise. Whether As Nodt can affect her or not LATER we will have to see, but working from what happens in the manga there's a working hypothesis on why that is.
What you're doing is telling people to stop assuming/using that theory even though it's logically sound because it might not happen. You have no contradictory evidence whatsoever, only a contrast to draw with how Byakuya failed to resist, which doesn't line in with Rukia's circumstance.
Now there's nothing wrong with disagreeing on a hypothesis because that happens all the fucking time in a Bleach thread, but when you go balls out with literally no evidence and start attacking what you suppose are rukia fanboys you're only begging for everyone to tell you off and doing nothing to forward discussion. Hell, it's no better than Orihime shitposter going off the wall with shitty shoops and shipping claims and calling everyone else 'rukiafags' - it has nothing to do with chapter discussion. Which is what everyone else was doing.
You want people to stop talking? Maybe you need to close the thread.
>>
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>>101186864
I'd wager a good part of the trolling was undertaken by you, my friend.
>>
>>101186998
Nope, if theres trolling its only on one side.
>>
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>>101186795
>>
>>101186767
If we're going by the source material, then the answer is obviously Rukia. But you continue to ignore that fact.
>>101186812
The discussion has never been about "immunity", its been about "resistance" and for what reason Rukia can resist As Nodt, which was basically accepted as the closing premise of this weeks chapter. Somehow you've managed to deny even that, which is why no one takes your argument seriously anymore.
>>
>>101186932
>What you're doing is telling people to stop assuming/using that theory even though it's logically sound because it might not happen
Its not logically sound in anyway whatsoever. You have half the information and are assuming the other half, where as I'm saying that there isn't enough information to know. If i said book A has 500 pages, and book B has an unknown number of pages, you couldn't possibly know what book has more pages.
>>
>>101187055
>If we're going by the source material, then the answer is obviously Rukia. But you continue to ignore that fact.
No, if you go by the source material there is no obvious answer because we don't know anything about Byakuya's background (except that hes been a much higher ranking for much longer)
>The discussion has never been about "immunity", its been about "resistance" and for what reason Rukia can resist As Nodt, which was basically accepted as the closing premise of this weeks chapter. Somehow you've managed to deny even that, which is why no one takes your argument seriously anymore.
Just because they didn't use the exact word "immunity" doesn't mean that people weren't saying it. There were people at the beginning of the thread saying that she would feel no fear because she already overcame her fear by killing kaein. This is the exact same as saying shes now immune to his power. The discussion was never about if Rukia would be able to "resist" because everyone knows that she is.
>>
>>101187101
No, you've been saying this entire time that "because you don't know the outcome, there is zero possibility that your premise is correct". That's you.
>>
>>101187207
No, thats never happened at all.
>Anon 1 (may or may not have been you i have no fucking clue) claims that its safe to assume that Rukia has experienced more fear than Byakuya
>I tell him that its not safe to assume at all because we know nothing of Byakuya's background
>You and other anons yell at me for daring to question the goddess rukia
>>
>>101176427
She defeated D-Roy.
>>
>>101187277
He said major fight.
>>
>>101187191
"Source Material" refers to the printed pages of manga written by Tite Kubo. It excludes speculation, therefore Byakuya's untold background is null and void.

>The discussion was never about if Rukia would be able to "resist" because everyone knows that she is.
So if I were to say that was the central premise of the entire argument, which you thought was actually an argument for "immunity", you would have to agree with me, correct?

Voila, the argument is over. Thank you ladies and gentlemen, goodnight.
>>
>>101187270
If that's the case then you weren't here for the beginning of the argument, because you're leaving out most of it.
>>
What should I care about in Bleach nowadays?

-I don't care about seeing the new villains get defeated; they're underdeveloped and came out of no where

-I don't care about seeing Hueco Mundo come save the day; Grimmjow was a boring Vegeta archetype and the big reveal that he's still alive is obvious to anyone who isn't 12

-I don't care about seeing the Soul Society win; they're a bunch of douchebags who deserve most of the crap that happened to them

-I don't care about seeing Ichigo's reaction to Ishida joining the other team; Ichigo, like most Bleach characters, screams and yells dramatically about every supposed betrayal, even though it's obviously a ruse on Ishida's part

-I don't care about seeing Ishida because he's been pissed on the entire series; making him strong for one final arc is too little, too late; Kubo shoved him aside to appease fujoshi who just wanted to draw doujins of Gin raping Hitsugaya

-I don't care about who ends up with who; Rukia and Ichigo haven't spoken more than a couple of words to each other in years, both in real life and in-story time; they haven't had any chemistry in almost a decade and it'd make zero sense for Ichigo to end up with her or even to be revealed as straight, at this point

So what is there to care about?
>>
>>101187310
So because we don't know his background means that hes confirmed to have never done anything in the past? Holy fuck you're dumb.
>So if I were to say that was the central premise of the entire argument, which you thought was actually an argument for "immunity", you would have to agree with me, correct?
No, I wouldn't agree with you at all. Hence why I said "The discussion was never about"
>>
>>101187101
You're assuming the other half that doesn't exist in the fucking source material. So for all intents and purposes it holds no weight in a discussion.
The existing hypothesis has mounds upon mounds.
How hard are you going to push occam's razor? Stop assuming shit that doesn't fucking exist to forward a counter claim with and stacking it against a possiblity made entirely of facts from the manga and thinking ANYBODY is going to agree with you.
>>101187270
>You and other anons yell at me for daring to question the goddess rukia
>not five people yelling at you for claiming 'byakuya might have had it harder!' with no supporting evidence
Hey, people believing a theory of a character with backing doesn't mean they even have to like that character. It just means your argument is completely empty and void of basis.
Now can we go back to discussion and speculating about the chapter with facts?
>>
>>101187364
Nothin, now go away.
>>
>>101187357
No one ever said that was the beginning of the argument, but that was the beginning of claims about Rukia vs Byakuya fear experience.
>>
>>101187364
Nothing, if you don't enjoy it now you won't enjoy it later. I don't think anyone cares to convince you to like something in a discussion thread either.
Rather, it seems you want people to defend it when liking something is completely up to a person's taste.
That's silly.
You're silly.
>>
>>101187381
How in the fuck can you possibly be this dense as to still not get it? I must be getting trolled now because you're stating the exact opposite of what happens. I'm not making any claims about Rukia and Byakuya's fear experiences, I'm saying that we have no fucking way of knowing. This is an irrefutable fact and you refuting it means that you are clearly a troll. We don't have enough information to say one way or the other who has gone through more.
>>
>>101187270
>Anon 1 (may or may not have been you i have no fucking clue) claims that its safe to assume that Rukia has experienced more fear than Byakuya
>I tell him that its not safe to assume at all because we know nothing of Byakuya's background

However much fear Byakuya has experienced is irrelevant. It doesn't affect the outcome we're explicitly shown in the manga: Rukia can deal (so far), Byakuya could not. Any claims or beliefs you have that Rukia SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be able to achieve these results based around an unknown quantity (Byakuya's experiences) is groundless supposition. It doesn't matter if he's had a long hard life or if book B has more pages.

>You and other anons yell at me for daring to question the goddess rukia
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Galileo_gambit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_playing
>>
>>101177822
Fucking batman, nigger bragging about max+ prep time.
>>
>>101187477
>However much fear Byakuya has experienced is irrelevant. It doesn't affect the outcome we're explicitly shown in the manga:
Of course it doesn't, but it can be indicative of whether or not Rukia can deal with it. IE if byakuya is more experienced at handling fear and still lost then Rukia won't be able to overcome it with pure will either.

>Rukia can deal (so far), Byakuya could not
They've only been fighting for half a chapter and rukia already froze for a moment. Byakuya was still perfectly calm and collected at this point in his fight.
>>
>>101187475
>waa it's the opposite
>I'm not making any claims BUT I made claims earlier that Byakuya MIGHT have had it worse and therefore your argument/hypothesis must be null and void! Stop discussing things!
You came in a DISCUSSION thread and didn't expect people to make CLAIMS using the MANGA as a source?
see >>101187207
By the way this entire chapter might actually all be Aizen's illusion and we have no fucking way of knowing. This is an irrefutable fact and by refuting it means you are clearly a troll.
>>
>>101187477
You fail to realize that it was said that the power doesn't depend on experience.
>>
>>101187378
No, it's just pointless to use that in an argument against information we already have.
>Rukia's traumatic past is a major part of two story arcs
>Well Byakuya could have an even more tragic past we don't know about
>No you're both wrong, As Nodt could have an even harder past and is also the Spirit King's brother.
Do you see how pointless it becomes when you're not backing your shit with anything?

I know that at this point you can't accept that you were wrong about this entire argument from the start but guess what: you were! Nothing else you say will change that, so feel free to keep saving face until this thread hits the post limit.
>>
>>101187571
>Do you see how pointless it becomes when you're not backing your shit with anything?
Dude, pay the fuck attention. Im not trying to back a claim because I'm not making a claim. My entire point is
>We have no way of knowing one way or the other who has dealt with more fear
If you disagree with this point you are a moron because we don't have enough information to say for sure.
>>
>>101187562
>and rukia already froze for a moment

That's exactly why we know that Rukia can deal (so far). That's the setup Kubo wants us to see. Rukia drops her sword to show she's hit with the full brunt of his fear, then she raises her head to show she's going to fight through it. Since we already know how it played out with Byakuya, ending a chapter on this determined note highlights how different it is this time around and heavily implies that she has a strength to resist that he did not. Whether this is due to her circumstances and internal fortitude (which is likely given her long growth over the course of the story) or some magic fear-immunity hat given to her by 0-squad (which would be a total asspull, but hey it's Kubo) remains to be seen. But the case as it stands right now is Kubo is straight up telling us "Rukia got this, yo." Until the quincykai happens, of course.
>>
>>101187568
You fail to read the entire thread.
>>
>>101187567
The problem is that you have no clue what is happening

What you think happened:
Anon
>Rukia might be able to overcome fear because of kaein
Me:
>NOOOO SHE DEFINITELY HASN'T DONE AS MUCH AS BYAKUYA

What actually happened:
Anon:
>Its safe to assume that rukia has had more experience with fear than byakuya
Me:
>No its not safe to assume because we don't know what kind of experience byakuya has had.
>>
>>101187679
But byakuya wasn't frozen in fear at this point in his fight so Rukia still being fine means nothing.
>>
>>101182723

rukia's biggest fear is having to take my fat dick.

now shut the fuck up.
>>
>>101187640
>My entire point is
>>We have no way of knowing one way or the other who has dealt with more fear

All that backpedaling. No one has suggested that knowing who has dealt with more fear is important EXCEPT the people trying to make the claim that Rukia should not be able to succeed where Byakuya failed. This is a complex form of the strawman argument, you're basically attempting to create an artificial controversy to undermine a side that supports a view that you dislike.
>>
>>101187640
If you've even read the manga, it should be obvious, but you're willfully ignoring the source material to stall the argument. Your only alternative is to literally ask Tite Kubo "has Byakuya dealt with more fear than Rukia?" because its a fictional manga and the only information we get is the info that's relevant to the story. If Kubo wanted us to know that Byakuya has undergone something much worse than what we know for a fact Rukai has gone through, he would have told us by now because it would have been relevant.

At this point your basically using the creationist argument. Thanks for being a cancerous fuck.
>>
>>101187640
>I'm not making any claims, I'm such a victim!
>>101179280
>this entire post claiming Rukia couldn't have possibly experienced more fear within the context of the manga because he's a warrior
>claiming everyone who thinks Rukia has more experience with fear is 'delusional as fuck'
There's more than just this one, but this one is enough. Kill yourself.
>>101187739
Wow. Just with how much force are you going to ignore your own posts. Just, wow.
>>
>>101187820
Theres no backpedaling, thats been my point the entire fucking thread. If you don't realize that you either didn't read the beginning of the argument or are confused as to what posts were mine. I have said exactly that a thousand times already.
>>
>>101187789
Irrelevant if you know how shounen manga--or hell, any writing works. We, the readers, already know how As Nodt's ability works. Therefore Kubo doesn't need to go through the whole false-courage process again, it would be redundant storytelling. Byakuya's loss was the pitch, Rukia's determination is the swing.
>>
>>101187731
Now, FUCK OFF. I SPENT ABOUT AN HOUR OF MY LIFE TO READ THIS PILE OF CRAP AND YOU TELL ME THAT!?

Your side of the debate (I don't know if it's just you, and I hope it IS just you because that would mean less people would be mentally challenged) is completely dumb and fails to see the point everytime it's replying.

You don't understand what people are trying to say.
You don't understand why they tell you you're wrong.
You don't understand the problems in your logic.

I hate to resort to ad hominem, but GODDAMNIT YOU'RE FUCKING DUMB. YOU'RE FUCKING DUMB AND YOU'RE DRIVING ME INSANE WITH YOUR STUPIDITY. YOU ARE LITERALLY GIVING ME A HEADACHE JUST BY EXISTING.
>>
>>101187789
Byakuya was basically fucked from the start, so it's a hard comparison to make; however after two fear attacks Byakuya was basically immobile, while Rukia is being shown to have a fortitude he doesn't. No amount of speculation can deny this fact, since we all just read it today.
>>
Wow.

Rukia fanbase are the most autistic piece of shit ever.
>>
>>101187884
>confused as to what points are mine
Here we go
He's going to claim every post in which he made a counter claim with no evidence isn't his!
It's unbeatable!
>>
>>101187833
Do you agree or disagree with this statement?
>Rukia (with 100% certainty) has overcome more fear than Byakuya has.
>>
It could have a proper explanation, and I hope it does, but Mask got wrecked by Renji because "lol super training" They even had a decent set up where Mask put out his own eardrums to avoid that Bankai, which could have prevented him from hearing his fan and thus no being able to regenerate further. But nope, his power is actually more BS than that so Renji is just that much cooler.

Rukia will probably have a similar thing.
>>
>>101187925
Quiet, peanut gallery
>>
>>101187922
>however after two fear attacks Byakuya was basically immobile, while Rukia is being shown to have a fortitude he doesn't. No amount of speculation can deny this fact, since we all just read it today.
Rukia's fight literally just started. Its still way to early to say that shes shown more than him. Byakuya was brave through the first few attacks too.
>>
>>101187918
What are you trying to say?

Make your claim right here. Make things clear so we understand what you want us to believe.
>>
>>101187929
I never once claimed that Byakuya definitely has more experience than her, just that its not safe to assume either way. Stop trying to force your imaginary points onto me.
>>
>>101187884
>My entire point is
>We have no way of knowing one way or the other who has dealt with more fear

Your point is in response to what, exactly? Why are you making it?
>>
>>101187930
Hey, why don't you actually refute my post instead of a poor attempt at a logic trap.

Obviously there is no 100% certainty because its a shounen manga not a science experiment. However, from what we can decipher from the source material, our only true window into the story of Bleach, we can say that it is more likely Rukia has overcome more fear than Byakuya.
>>
>>101187967
If you ignore dialogue, sure. Byakuya expressed that he was suppressing fear as his job requires him to do. Rukia flat states she doesn't feel it.
This is either A) a bluff, B) the sode no shirayuki reflection trick anon mentioned, or C) a result of her overcoming her trauma. Each one is fine, but only two have reasonable evidence.
>>
>>101188033
Its in response to someone else saying "Its safe to assume that rukia has gone through more fear than Byakuya". Then everyone jumped all over me for making "baseless claims" (Because saying that we don't know something is such an outrageous claim) and telling me to prove my point with in-manga evidence. Since then i've just been trying to get these guys to understand that was my point all along.
>>
>>101188071
No, you can't say that. We have no clue who has done more and the only possible evidence points more towards Byakuya than Rukia if anything. The only thing we can say right now is "we honestly have no fucking clue"
>>
>>101188022
>I never once claimed that Byakuya definitely has more experience than her, just that its not safe to assume either way

No one made the claim that it IS safe to assume either way. The statement has been made numerous times that his level of experience is irrelevant. You are playing the victim by trying to claim that the argument is turning against you due to a statement you made to address a nonexistence controversy.
>>
>>101178501
>Theres no reason to believe that Rukia has somehow overcome fear more than her (far more experienced) older brother
>>101178763
>Byakuya experienced fear much more than Rukia would have
>>101179280
>Yeah you're delusional as fuck, I'm done. Theres no way in hell you could honestly think that Rukia has experienced fear more than Byakuya, shes been sheltered as fuck as far as shinigami go.Lets compare
So I'm to believe this isn't a claim?
And they're all not you?
Clearly a master of trickery that we have all fallen for. He only works the parts of the argument that are most neutral within this entire thread and these posts must clearly not be his, thus he's a victim. Damned Rukiafags, damn you to hell!
>>
>>101188241
>No one made the claim that it IS safe to assume either way.
Yes they did, read the fucking thread. Look at this guy a few posts above you doing exactly that. >>101188071


>The statement has been made numerous times that his level of experience is irrelevant
And ive repeatedly said why thats retarded and entirely untrue.
>>
>>101178540
she has been mindfucked by gin too much during the soukyoku arc. you'll become fearless too if that happens
>>
>>101188238
>the only possible evidence points more towards Byakuya than Rukia if anything.
>not a claim
>still no facts from the manga
>>101188022
>I never once claimed that Byakuya definitely has more experience than her, just that its not safe to assume either way.
You almost ran away, you were THIS close to abandoning responsibility and you went and fucked it up by claiming something with no evidence whatsoever in the manga.
You need to quit. I want to talk about that reflection possibility instead.
>>
>>101187971
1st: You won't like it because I'm not the guy you want me to be, I've posted about 3 times in this thread.

2nd: I already made my claim (that Rukia can only overcome his ability through experience in a case of terrible writing, because we were told that this is not possible), one side of the petty dispute called me "a sane person", and the other said I was "going to be disappointed in Bleach".

3rd: Then, BOTH SIDES acknowledged my claim that it would be dumb for her to be able to overcome it through experience.

4th: Then, one minute later, people from one side were claiming YET AGAIN that Rukia (so far) was able to endure it, and YET AGAIN associate that with her experience.
>>
>>101188263
>>Theres no reason to believe that Rukia has somehow overcome fear more than her (far more experienced) older brother
This is literally me saying "we don't know either way"

>Byakuya experienced fear much more than Rukia would have
This is just talking about actually experiencing fear, not who has dealt with more significant trauma (you yourself said earlier that it doesn't matter even if hes faced fear more times because he hasn't faced as bad)
>Yeah you're delusional as fuck, I'm done. Theres no way in hell you could honestly think that Rukia has experienced fear more than Byakuya, shes been sheltered as fuck as far as shinigami go.Lets compare
Again, this is me telling you to stop assuming, nowhere do I say that Byakuya definitively is better equipped to deal with fear. All of those posts are me trying to give examples of why we shouldn't assume because its possible that he had more.
>>
>>101188238
>only possible evidence points more towards Byakuya than Rukia if anything
Oh my god I'm going to vomit. All you're doing now is setting up an argument you can't lose; because I can't make my point with 100% certainty (which was never my intention) I can't win, and since you're premise is "well we can't ever really know everything for certain" you can't lose. Thanks for killing any and all discussion of this chapter for the next week because god forbid someone else is more correct than you on the internet.
>>
>>101188359
for reference, watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlLWYMzNGTE
>>
>>101188360
Thats not a claim at all you moron. Let me repeat it for you because you're clearly retarded.
>We don't know either way who has more experience with fear because we don't know what byakuya has done in the past.
"The only possible evidence points more towards byakuya than rukia if anything" was supposed to refer to the fact that Byakuya has been an active and higher ranking shinigami than Rukia for a long time and thus IF ANYTHING the reasonable conclusion would be that hes been through more shit. Notice how I'm not saying the he DEFINITELY has.
>>
>>101188425
>make a baseless claim
>someone corrects you
>WAHHH YOU RUINED THE THREAD FOR THIS AND NEXT WEEK
Very childish.
>>
>>101188521
But you're completely ignoring Rukia's relationship with Kaien Shiba again, and the obvious trauma it had on her. Not only that, but it's been a major plot point in two arcs. But despite the manga not saying anything about Byakuya having any equivalent in true fear and desperation, "we can't make any assumptions you guys!"

Seriously, choke and die.
>>
>>101188562
Your "correction" of a reasonable claim is what's baseless. The sad thing is that regardless of the outcome of next weeks chapter, you will never admit that you were wrong, because your circular logic is inherently flawed. Fuck this shit, I'm out, see you next week.
>>
>>101188650
So because Rukia had one traumatic event that means that Byakuya couldn't possibly have had traumatic events himself, EVEN THOUGH hes been consistently in more dangerous situations for longer than Rukia. You're the one assuming things when you assume that Byakuya never had anything like that just because we haven't heard about it yet. Byakuya has been a captain for decades, while rukia spent her entire tenure as an unseated member on less dangerous missions. Yes she had a traumatic event but that doesn't mean that he definitely hasn't, because we don't fucking know. If you don't agree with this statement you need to just stop posting:
>We don't know one way or the other who has more experience in dealing with fear
>>
>>101188411
>no reason to believe x is possible when we've seen Rukia dealing with and overcoming her fear twice when compared to Byakuya
>claiming that evidence is irrelevant when someone tries to make a hypothesis is not a claim
You're telling everyone it simply isn't possible right there, when contextually speaking everyone would disagree.
>This is just talking about actually experiencing fear
If you read the post of the guy you were talking to he was saying the same: Byakuya experienced battle and its fear more often, but not Fear. Yes, he was referring to The Fear when he capitalized it, if you're really that daft.
>>Yeah you're delusional as fuck, I'm done. Theres no way in hell you could honestly think that Rukia has experienced fear more than Byakuya
>Again, this is me telling you to stop assuming, nowhere do I say that Byakuya definitively is better equipped to deal with fear
You're right he just happens to be equivocally equipped for it, and everything we'd read in the manga supports that.
Oh wait, you're making a baseless claim right here.
>>101188521
>The evidence points towards Byakuya more than Rukia than anything
>not a claim
>that Byakuya has been an active and higher ranking shinigami than Rukia for a long time and thus IF ANYTHING the reasonable conclusion would be that hes been through more shit.
>not a claim
You're telling me right here and now that because all this non-existent evidence within the context of the manga is here, that this hypothesis cannot exist. You are in fact trying to tear it down with no basis whatsoever. There is no neutrality in saying that a significant amount of evidence is irrelevant in the face of supposition - that is a claim no matter how you're trying to spin it. Because you are not just supposing that it might not happen, you're saying if anything it will not because Byakuya SHOULD be better equipped. All baseless.
You're an idiot.
>>
>>101188733
There is no right or wrong next week because I'm not the one making a claim. Seriously how can you be this dumb.

>>101188786
I never said that you can't have that as a hypothesis, if you want to think that its perfectly fine. I'm telling you that WE DON'T KNOW EITHER WAY SO STOP CLAIMING WE DO WITH CERTAINTY. I don't know how you can be so dumb as to accuse me of doing the exact thing im telling you not to do.
>>
>>101187364
If you don't like it by now you never will, anon. Just stop reading, there's a shit ton of other manga out there
>>
>>101188773
You don't understand the point of a theory, do you? If everyone was as anal retentive as you science would've never progressed past "stick" and "stone".
>>
>>101184588
Yes
>>
>>101188863
The problem is that no one ever said it was a theory. Exact quote "Its safe to assume that Rukia has had more experience dealing with fear than Byakuya". This is not a theory or a hypothesis, this is a claim of fact. Theres nothing wrong with saying "I think Byakuya probably hasn't experienced as much as her" but to state it as fact is ridiculous.
>>
>>101188848
>I never said that you can't have that as a hypothesis, if you want to think that its perfectly fine. I'm telling you that WE DON'T KNOW EITHER WAY SO STOP CLAIMING WE DO WITH CERTAINTY.
>imaginary certainty
>reality is people theorycrafting with facts from the manga and you autistically attempting to refute typical chapter discussion with theorycrafting
You're. An. Idiot.
It's like you're fighting over people etching it in stone when again, the terms used were 'resist', 'beat', 'counter' the attack and says nothing about how the whole fight is going to go, much less if Rukia is unaffected. Try rereading the thread without the delusional victim goggles.
NOW can we talk about reflection theory?
>>
>>101188848
Saying "that claim can't possibly be true" is a claim, dipshit.
>>
>>101188850
Bleach use to be good. The Arrancar Arc was entertaining, especially towards the climax. And even the Lost Agent Arc was good.

This final arc is rushed and disappointing.
>>
>>101188941
>safe to assume
>a fact
>to assume
>a fact
You're a retarded idiot if you think conjecture based on the source material is equivalent to stating it's a claim of fact.
Kill yourself.
>>
>>101188999
Good thing I never said that you idiot.
>>
>>101189011
Assuming something is conjecture, saying that its safe to assume something is claiming that conjecture is correct. You fucking retard.
>>
>>101189062
see >>101188238
That's a claim right there.
>>
>>101189100
Wow, how fucking stupid do you have to be.
Scientists work on assumptions but they don't write papers on it until the conjecture is proven fact after the execution.
Saying it's safe to assume something is the same as saying that as far as we know, it's correct. Not the same as saying 'it can't possibly be wrong', like saying it was a fact is.
Kill yourself, please.
>>
This shit has gone on and on way too long. As Nodt deals with irrational fear. Rational fear could be defeated through experience and reason, in Rukia's case she would know that she's been responsible for killing Kaien twice, that she can't hurt him anymore, and that he understood and forgave her. But this type of fear is irrational, which would be the image of Kaien coming back and blaming her for his death, and eat all of her friends. No matter how much experience or whatever she has, as long as she can worry, she can fear, and As Nodt's poison will turn that worry into a nightmare she can't counter with logic or reason. She will know that it cannot happen, she will know that it is not real, and she will know that it's just an artificial effect, but that sensation will not leave her.
>>
>>101189161
Its not safe to assume in anyway because there plain isn't enough evidence. This is like if you tried to do an experiment, couldn't get all of the research material and then just guessed what the outcome would be instead of just admitting that we don't know.

>>101189103
>"we have no fucking clue" is a direct claim
Alright I'm done, its long been obvious you're trolling as 80% of your posts have been arguing against something I wasn't ever saying. 10/10 successful troll, I'm mad and now I'm leaving tje tjread,
>>
>>101189225
Nope, glorious ruki/a/ will overcome it through sure kawaii.
>>
How long have these chucklefucks been at it?
>>
>>101189225
But that directly contradicts what we see at the end of the chapter. Basically anyone trying to dispute this is just setting themselves up for disappointment next week. In other words, deal with it.
>>
>>101189255
>"we have no fucking clue" somehow translates to "if anything Byakuya should be-" and stating things like "there's no way Rukia experienced more than Byakuya" is not a claim either, nor does it beg the question of how the theory could be true assuming this baseless statement or insinuate that it's unsound with no facts to back it up
Oh yes, you're such a victim.
Never come back, please.
>>
>>101189375
At least 5 fucking hours in this thread. More if you add in previous ones.
>>
>>101189382
>>101189225
I don't think Rukia is going to be completely immune, I mean she dropped her sword on contact. She's probably just going to be able to deal with it and 'strike through her fears', stabbing As Nodt in THE HEART or something. As opposed to captain flowers going completely immobile.
But this theory would be much much more fun. >>101183013
>>
One more for the bump limit and... GET FUCKED LON
>>
>>101189382
That could be any number of things as another anon has said here.
>>101188103
>>
STOP FIGHTING

WHY CAN'T YOU SEE YOU'RE IN LOVE
>>
>>101189002
The final arc is far better than both of those though.
>>
>>101189450
>She's probably just going to be able to deal with it and 'strike through her fears', stabbing As Nodt in THE HEART or something

According to one retarded troll, that's a baseless claim and you're an idiot for posting it. Welcome to the past 3 hours.
>>
The only thing I hate from Bleach is LoN
>>
>>101189480
It's Bleach, get over it.
>>
>>101189517
>Spend hours argue with that other faggot
>Still won't let it go after he leaves when everyone is long tired of that argument
Seriously, you all need to just let it go.
>>
>>101189599
And bleach is exactly the kind of manga where exactly what we think will happen does. I'd be okay with that ending for Rukia As Nodt fight, i'm just not entirely convinced thats how its going to go yet.
>>
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>>101189619
The peanut gallery doesn't get to talk.
>>101189670
Bleach threads only exist for this purpose
>>
>>101189719
You and I both know that we mostly just throw a huge pile of junk at the wall and screencap what sticks.
>>
>>101189765
>>101189765
>>101189765
>>101189765
>>101189765
NEW THREAD
>>
So it's official
ANOTHER pair of renji's glasses are fuckin smashed
and he doesn't keep the badass cape or fur cloak
which means it's HIGHLY likely Rukia will lose hers as well

Ichigo is set to arrive before byakuya, so Ichigo's gotta have an opponent to take down when he gets there.

So far the fights post-palace-swap have been extremely one sided.

Four Stern Ritters down, with Six captains, and Three VC (level) fighters down.

Considering how massively powerful Renji is now (shikai is confirmed more powerful than bankai Kensei or Rose) compared to what he was before (shikai form got owned by a less powerful Mask, which puts him somewhere above Shuuhei, but below Kensei), and considering As Nodt's entire stick is making his enemies too afraid to fight (remember, Byakuya could cut him, so he's not particularly tough) then this should be a fairly one sided fight for Rukia.

Rukia is quite likely at this point just too STRONG to be effected by the fear.

Yes that means she's stronger than byakuya was.

If she made the same level of jump Renji did, she's definitely going to be at least on par with Byakuya's old self.

Plus she no doubt has bankai.

She's going to crush As Nodt, even if it'll be dragged out a little, just like Renji crushed Mask.

And then she'll join Renji, and they'll doubleteam nananankompoop
>>
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>>101189786
Of course. I'm saying that we should never stop, because it's fun when we're right.
>>
>>101189866
I mostly agreed with your post but I just wanted to throw a few things out there.
I doubt Byakuya is going to return to the battlefield anytime soon(if he ever does).
Also, don't count the vizards so low just yet, I believe Kubo is setting them up to get healed and perform better in the next wave.
>>
>>101189969
>vizards
only vizard we'll see again are Shinji, for his bankai, and Mashiro, probably whenever we see Shuuhei's bankai.

I don't think we'll actually ever see the human world vizards fight again (sorry, no love bankai)
>>
>>101190045
We literally just saw Rose this chapter.
>>
>>101190120
sorry, I mean see again in battle
>>
>>101190158
Oh. I think we'll likely see all of them again, though they may be group/off screen fights.
>>
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>>101189225
I don't wanna dispute fictional characters and their fictional bullshit, but the feeling of fear is not enough to stop one in its tracks. Byakuya was just a little bitch who never actually felt real fear before. Throw in Hisagi, Kenpachi, or fucking Aizen against this guy and they'd fucking rape him.

Ass Note is a little bit over his own head.

Even Orihime could pull and Usopp on him and go all "I'M ALREADY AFRAID".
>>
>>101190372
>but the feeling of fear is not enough to stop one in its tracks
Yes it is. Hence why we have phrases like "frozen in fear" and "like a deer in the headlights".
>>
>>101190561
But it's not. It's just a generic human weakness found in many people. We have people who live and work in enviroments where their lives are constantly in danger. Fireman, police, politicans, rebels, and so on. Fear can easily be overwritten by focusing on a goal. There were even exceptional individuals, generals, monks, who didn't even bend under severe torture because of their goals, and that was back in the middle ages where torture was the fucking shit.
>>
>>101190912
Hes a fictional character with a magic power that forces people to feel fears even when they know it doesn't make sense, you can't base it off of normal real life situations like being a fireman.
>>
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>>101190968
...You do understand that the fictionality just makes it all the more logically fragile, right?

For all that means, next chapter Rukia's just gonna owerpower it with pure reiatsu, Aizen style.
>>
>>101191129
You do realize you're reading a fictional manga where ghosts use super powers to fight evil spirits, right?
>>
>>101191199
Yes. That's why I started out with saying >>101190372 >I don't wanna dispute fictional characters and their fictional bullshit



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