What the fuck?
How could they do this after what happened? Is this written by Urobutcher?
But anon, the dragonballs.
fuck, its too late.
Ending is just a hypothermia induced hallucination.
but thats just a delusion from his mind breaking
This. Note that, in the recap, you never actually see Nagisa.
if i say it enough maybe it is true ;_;
The moral of the story: go to the fucking hospital when your sick wife is pregnant or everything you love will die
but the SNOW!!!!
I always have thought that Usagi's death was kinda pointless. He had already come full circle and faced his own hatred of his dad. He had gotten over the death of Nagisa.
Yeah it's really sad, but it just didn't add anything to the story. And then the ending is even more dumb. The whole other world just seemed kinda tacked on.
>And then the ending is even more dumb. The whole other world just seemed kinda tacked on.
>Foreshadowed to hell and back throughout the entire goddamn show
Anon, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I think this sort of show might be just a wee bit above your mental level.
This, I always thought the same, the guy was even starting to have a relation with Kyou.
Just because it didn't came out of nowhere doesn't mean it was good, it made all the last episodes of AF pointless.
The ending wasn't pointless what would've been pointless is if all the time we spent watching what was happening in the other world and nothing came out of it. Imagine if the magic and all that foreshadowing had been for nothing.
People watched that? I always skipped all the crap that was before the OP.
You have officially lost all right to complain. Try actually paying attention to the fucking show before spouting off about it.
>It's dark. Is it night?
>It sure is. It's getting late.
>I love you.
>Yeah. Daddy loves you too, Ushio, very much
>Ushio? Ushio!? USHIO!!!.
Agreed, I always thought the last episodes really really suffered from the Key Magic™, and tainted what could've been a surprisingly (and refreshingly) realistic portrayal of a family moving on and overcoming grief. I definitely thought Kyou ending up being Tomoya's partner was the natural progression of this arc, sign that he truly moved on and was ready to continue living, etc.
Of course, that would've rendered the whole "other world" thing pointless, but I think I'd have survived without it in the first place. I'm not usually one to argue in favor of relatively radical changes to original works, so I understand where they went and why, but like I said I'm not such a fan of Key storytelling in the first place, so heh. A more realistic approach, in my opinion, would've been better for that particular show.
>and tainted what could've been a surprisingly (and refreshingly) realistic portrayal of a family moving on and overcoming grief. I definitely thought Kyou ending up being Tomoya's partner was the natural progression of this arc, sign that he truly moved on and was ready to continue living, etc.
I wish that, in order to post on /a/, you had to pass some basic intelligence test so we didn't get a bunch of redditors posting this same complaint all the goddamn time when it's obvious they didn't pay attention to the show or understand it on a thematic level.
Tainted is a strong word. In retrospect, I understand why they chose to go with the direction they went in. While watching the show the first time, I just thought the last episodes were a little jarring and messed up my initial expectations of the show. I do believe some things could've been changed to better fit my preferences, but that would probably indeed go against the spirit of the original work, and typical Key VN traditions, kinda. The anime really isn't very clear, at least compared to the VN, about the whole town karma and the magic bubbles shit anyway.
No need to resort to ad hominem, I was only stating my opinion.
KyoAni can't into adaptation.
Please anon, I didn't want to cry tonight
>And then the ending is even more dumb. The whole other world just seemed kinda tacked on.
It seems that way because its based on a visual novel and player agency is lost in the adaptation. After the point where Ushio dies, you then have to go back and replay the game and try to get all 13 lights at which point you'll save Nagisa in afterstory. If you were to just not do "New Game+" it would end there and everything would be awful and sad.
Did you find it?
You've been searching all this time?
I see. Ushio we might not be able to find that robot. We can't do anything about it so lets buy another one ok?
>There's only one
There were lots of them at the store
>It's the one you chose and bought for me
>First thing from Daddy
Not having played the VN, I can't speak to the comparison between that and the anime per se, but I thought the anime did a fine job of establishing the whole magic lights bit. It seemed pretty obvious to me from the point that Okazaki reconciled with his dad that the magic lights were going to be used to fix all his problems and make a happy ending, and although I wasn't entirely clear on the exact connection of the town and the other world it was pretty clear that they'd be involved one way or another.
Really, I was pretty much banking on a magic lights fix basically right as soon as Nagisa died, since that whole side of things had been pretty solidly established by that point. It's just that the one going into him when he patched things up with his dad that really cinched it for me as a certainty.
I can see not liking the whole fantastical side of it as a simple matter of taste, but based on the way the fantastical elements had been so thoroughly established throughout the story up to that point, it always baffles me that anyone would find that ending in any way jarring, ill-fitting, or unexpected. Prior to Nagisa's death, the show had established itself as a story where bad things only happen as a prelude to a happy (or at worst bittersweet) ending, so you know it's going to turn out good one way or another. And with the supernatural elements so firmly established, it's obvious that they're going to play a role in accomplishing that happy resolution.
I always thought that the mystical elements would be purely symbolic.
What the fuck is Fuuko?
Did her ghost just hop out of her comatose body and start talking to people? Because that's really weird and killed the immersion for me during the first season.
If any of you in this thread enjoyed the Clannad anime in any capacity, you should play the visual novel it is adapted from. It's better in almost every aspect except for maybe it's art.
Everything is much clearer there, especially as far as After Story goes. Not to mention that all of the arcs are covered in much greater detail and you get much more invested in the characters and the story.
Yyyyeeeah, after ghost Fuko and the shapeshifting cat, I don't see how you could possibly come to the conclusion that the supernatural stuff was just symbolic.
I thought it was very, very boring, but I don't like the idea of VNs.
Is it all right not to hold it in anymore?
Sanae-san told me. Places I can cry are in the bathroom...
...and in Daddy's arms.
But what about the flashback arc with Misae? It's been a while since I've watched but I'm pretty sure that happens early on in After Story. They discuss the mechanics of the light orbs and you get to see the aftermath of a wish for yourself. Hell even before that back in S1 there's Fuuko's arc so I'm rather baffled that you could think that all of the magic came out of nowhere.
And then you'll never need to read a VN ever again.
That fucking scene.
how about Ushio doujin made by Quzilax?
>Did her ghost just hop out of her comatose body and start talking to people?
Pretty much, yes.
>Because that's really weird and killed the immersion for me during the first season.
I swear I will never understand this mentality of letting preconceived notions of what a show is supposed to be like ruin it for you. It's a low-key modern fantasy setting, what's so hard about accepting that as something revealed gradually throughout the story rather than sold to you as part of the premise up front?
This exact moment in Episode 18 was when I fucking lost it. Nagisa dying hit me really hard, but everything about Field of Flowers was executed perfectly. I don't think I'll see something this emotionally eviscerating for as long as I continue to watch anime.
Just remembering those lines can make me tear up pretty consistently. It's beautiful.
I think the dislike of the magical lights/ending comes from the resolution that everything had when Tomoya got Ushio back into his life. He realized he was making the same mistakes as his father. This is what the climax of the entire story is.
The whole other world thing seems pointless when looking at it from this perspective. Not really tacked on just unnecessary.
I had Nagisa's death spoiled for me from the start, and I had Ushio's death spoiled for me in between her birth and it happening, and I still fucking cried every episode after AS16.
Same here, man. I'm generally more susceptible to crying at heartwarming or bittersweet moments than straight-up sad ones in the first place (sad stuff might make me feel an awful gutwrenching emptiness inside, but it's very rare that it makes me tear up), plus anything related to family matters is a big emotional weak spot for me, so that whole scene really opened up the waterworks.
>I swear I will never understand this mentality of letting preconceived notions of what a show is supposed to be like ruin it for you. It's a low-key modern fantasy setting, what's so hard about accepting that as something revealed gradually throughout the story rather than sold to you as part of the premise up front?
I think people find it a bit jarring. I don't mind it, yet think it could have been done better.
Watch Uchouten Kazoku right now
unless you already have, of course
Oh god dammit you just had to remind me.
Seems like we're on the same page. I've found that it all really hinges on how much you're able to relate to the themes it's presenting, and being able to identify with almost everything Tomoya went through made it a very cathartic experience and not one I'll easily forget.
Have you played the VN?
I would frankly say that that perspective is flawed. The whole thing with Tomoya straightening out his life and his issue with his dad is huge, to be sure, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily the "climax of the entire story", because that bit of personal growth is itself a critical step toward the magic lights end. I don't know about the VN, but in the anime that whole arc is pretty clearly portrayed as THE point where the magic lights end really becomes possible.
The magic lights end doesn't invalidate that experience, because it couldn't happen without it. Granted, it's kind of a weird wibbly-wobbly sort of continuity going on there, but it makes sense if you can manage to wrap your mind around the looser sort of temporal relationship involved. And, although it is admittedly not as clearly established as it perhaps ought to have been, it's not like that bit of personal growth is lost after the magic lights end. The epilogue sequence shows that even in the magic lights ending, Tomoya still makes peace with his dad, which, while it wouldn't have involved the poignant story arc of Tomoya hitting rock bottom and finding himself in his dad's shoes, would presumably still have necessitated the same general sorts of personal growth and realizations.
TL;DR, I don't actually see any friction between those two parts of the story at all, but rather I think they mesh together pretty well, or in fact are even intimately intertwined.
Because it disrupts one's ability to empathize with characters undergoing what could be real distress if it is explained away with something that we can not relate to, especially if we are not aware from the beginning that the world we are escaping to does not follow the rules of our own.
It's like someone tells you a sad story and as you're listening you say "I know that feel" and they keep going with the story and you again say "I know that feel" and then finally they say something that alters the premise of your sympathy--like "...And then before I could tell her I loved her I got abducted by aliens!"-- and you no longer "know that feel".
Being spoiled about Nagisa and then seeing someone post that she didn't really die made the few episodes before her death incredibly tense for me.
I stopped watching after the episode in the field because I figured there were no tears left to shed after that.
Was I wrong?
This show was dumb, and the little girl's death was funny.
I had this happen too. I almost started to believe it wasn't gonna happen and I was just getting trolled, but as soon as I saw this scene and the look on their faces in my pic I knew it was coming.
Even being spoiled didn't stop me from crying like a bitch for 7 straight episodes.
The fuck is wrong with you?
Yes, as there are still precious things to be taken away from Okazaki.
I shall add it to my list.
I don't even necessarily identify with Tomoya's situation at all, seeing as I've been blessed with a wonderfully loving and stable family situation, but I think it's precisely because I have such a great relationship with my family that I value family stuff so much and thus really get worked up when those themes come up.
I downloaded the VN ages ago, started playing it, but hardly got anywhere into it before life got busy and I ended up not having much time to play it. Haven't gotten around to giving it another go since then.
Welp. I guess I gotta go back and cry more.
I had some big interruption after that episode and didn't watch for a while. When I thought of going back, I figured I had already seen the climax and forgot about it.
That's a pretty edgy and immature thing to say.
There's a distinct difference between gradual revelation of supernatural elements and a sudden absurdist twist that totally derails the story.
Right in the feels.
Was I the only one that got really emotional in the scenes with Tomoya, his dad and his grandma? No one ever really mentions them.
I actually went into the show with absolutely no knowledge of the plot or premise beyond "love story and stuff".
It hit me like a punch in the gut the first time, but when I went back and rewatched the show just recently it was even worse actually knowing what was coming. Your first time, all the bits of setup and foreshadowing are just like "heh, wait, no way, they wouldn't...right?" But when you know what's coming, each of those hints itself is a painful hit softening you up for the inevitable finisher.
>Right in the feels.
They don't stand out to me as much as the more commonly mentioned scenes, but yeah, those were pretty great.
Now that's edgy.
Tomoya's dad did nothing wrong.
No shit, that was like 20% of After Story.
Dat hand QUALITY
I watched AS12 to end straight through whilst drunk. I was kill.
Fuck those scenes, and fuck Japan's notion that you have to respect your parents no matter what. A alcoholic gambling-addicted drug dealer who cripples his child in a drunken rage doesn't deserve to be seen in any sort of positive light, much less to the extent that Clannad presents it.
I cried when Tomoya and Ushio went to visit him.
... have I finally done it?
I think I can understand what you're saying, but I still feel your analogy is flawed. One doesn't have to have personally experienced something in order to feel for another person's plight, that's actually what empathy is. If circumstances distinct from those found in our own universe (such as the magic of the light orbs in Clannad) prevented us from empathizing with characters, none of us would be able to feel for the casts of LotGH or Berserk because I'm fairly certain most anons can't claim to have experienced most of what happened in either series.
I suppose then that the real point of contention is whether or not the magic came out of nowhere or was properly set up through previous arcs, and in all the threads I've been in I've never seen people from both sides of the spectrum come to an amiable consensus. Sasuga /a/ I guess.
Not again, Anon.
Sounds like you have some Daddy problems. At least Naoyuki never abandoned Tomoya like Tomoya did to Ushio, despite near identical circumstances.
How is it "Daddy problems" to recognize when someone is a shitty father? And he basically did abandon Tomoya, in that he became a lethargic drunk who did nothing for his kid and just laid around all day in a stupor.
Whilst I too would have liked to see Tomoya and Kyou get together I knew it wouldn't happen, he would feel he was betraying Nagisa and Ushio
>And he basically did abandon Tomoya, in that he became a lethargic drunk who did nothing for his kid and just laid around all day in a stupor.
Yeah, because Tomoya was a great son and all. Knowing him it was probably him that attacked his father first. No one is saying Naoyuki was a great father, but keep in mind we only see the very late years and even Tomoya recognises Naoyuki as a better father than himself.
Was anyone else really affected by everyone visiting them, in episode 16?
Yeah, because "attacking first" totally makes it okay for a parent to cripple their child and take away what was a major part of their life up to that point. You're seriously trying to justify abuse by saying "the kid deserved it".
Somewhere on this earth is a man with a wife he loved dearly who died in childbirth and a daughter who subsequently died of the same genetically inherited illness, who will never get a chance to relive his life thanks to some magic lights and will simply collapse in the snow and scream.
>Yeah, because "attacking first" totally makes it okay for a parent to cripple their child and take away what was a major part of their life up to that point.
Yes, I'm almost certain Naoyuki intended to cripple Tomoya for life.
>You're seriously trying to justify abuse by saying "the kid deserved it".
Tomoya was 16. At 16 you deserve to be responsible for your actions.
And yet apparently you seem to think that Naoyuki doesn't have to be held responsible for his actions.
But whether he intended to or not is beyond the point, because the fact remains that it happened and yet the show and VN try to just sweep it under the rug and act like Naoyuki was some sort of misunderstood martyr for his child
>And yet apparently you seem to think that Naoyuki doesn't have to be held responsible for his actions.
He suffered more than enough for anything wrong he did.
You're assuming a degree of aggression on Naoyuki's part that is never clearly established. All we know for certain is that the two got in a fight and Tomoya came out of it with a bum shoulder. Given Tomoya's character, him being the one that started the fight is not out of the question, and given Naoyuki's tendency toward passivity it seems rather unlikely that the scenario was something along the lines of Tomoya hitting first, then Naoyuki flying into a rage and beating Tomoya mercilessly. It could very well have been an injury inflicted unintentionally in the course of self-defense.
Naoyuki certainly has his problems, but violent abuse does not seem to be one of them. Alcoholism, gambling addiction, certainly. Emotional neglect after he decided to go totally hands-off in his son's life in order to, y'know, avoid getting into any fights like the one that led to the injury that he is obviously plainly mortified for having had a part in. But I don't think there's any reason to add violent abuse to his list of sins. He was a well-meaning man who broke under the pressures of his shitty life circumstances and fell victim to common human frailties. He certainly isn't deserving of admiration, and may not even deserve much in the way of respect, but he doesn't deserve hatred or scorn. Just pity, mainly.
Which is complete bullshit. I assume if he had, say, committed a murder, you would think that he should go free because "he's had a really tough life guys"?
I'm not certain what we're arguing about here. Why can't we all just agree that what he did to Tomoya was wrong but that it doesn't necessarily damn him as a person? Individual actions shouldn't ever be used to define a person's life, humans are too complex to be summed up in that manner.
I can agree with you for the most part. Still, it bothers me that the show does go so far as to give him that respect and even admiration, where pity would have sufficed.
I don't know what this show is, but reading all the posts here makes me sad.
I don't think pity alone would've been appropriate, though. He does deserve credit for sticking it out as much as he did, even if he didn't manage to pull it off in a very admirable way. I think it somewhat comes across as overly praising simply because that whole arc is set up in contrast to Tomoya's original views of his dad, which framed him as an utterly despicable, terrible, worthless person. The whole point was that the guy is more nuanced than that, neither wholly hero nor wholly villain, but since the villainous aspects were already firmly established in an exaggerated fashion through Tomoya's skewed point of view, the resolution had to emphasize the ways in which he was somewhat heroic to balance things out. The overall portrayal, I felt, was one that gives him the credit he's due for the persistence he put in, tempered with a lot of pity and compassion for the fact that he just didn't have the strength of character to pull off being the kind of man he tried to be.
It clannad,give it a shot. It has two seasons and fully develops a relationship
I could swear somewhere in the show it depicts the fight scene. One night Naoyuki comes home drunk and gives Tomoya some Sushi.
Tomoya gets aggravated and tells him he doesn't want any. Reminds him that he is drunk, etc.
I can't fully remember who moves first but it ends in Naoyuki pushing Tomoya, who falls against a window, breaking it and hurting his shoulder.
>He didn't kill anyone though.
I don't recall that, and I just got done rewatching the show. Double checked the episode where Tomoya explains the injury to Nagisa (which is where such a flashback would most logically be), and it's not in there.
Might've been some other fight besides the one where his shoulder got hurt, or maybe it was in the VN?
From what I can remember, the actual flashback happens a good deal later than the initial explanation. Can't remember the exact episode though.
Episode 18 of S1 is when I lost it. Every girl realized they lost and started crying.
I only watched Season 1 of this... Skipped season 2 cause of the reputation I heard and I already shed enough man-tears watching Kanon.
Did season 2 dorama part feel "forced"?
Very melodramatic, but in my experience, not forced.
>with upbeat music playing in the background
that made me lawl
That doesn't compare to Kotomi's arc.
>The teddy bear traveling from country to country
was "melodoramatic" just because... or was it "melodroramatic" in a "natural" way?
"K-Kyou, I'm sorry."
Well, the melodrama was integral to the story, so I felt that it was fairly natural. Others will not agree.
Please no i don't want to deal with the emotional breakdown again
You think you guys had it bad watching this movie? Imagine watching when you actually have a young daughter. I couldn't even cry. My mind just went numb thinking about that happening to me.
im sorry sorry man, i couldn't even imagine that
Show + the movie mate
The end of Kotomi's arc is second only to AS episode 18 for me as far as emotionality goes.
None of this would have happened if he'd just fucked one of the other girls. Serves him right for fucking unhealthy, ill people
I just skipped through all the episodes, I can't fucking remember which one it is. This is going to annoy the hell out of me
"One day while arguing with his son on trivial things, he slammed Tomoya against the wall, dislocating Tomoya's right shoulder. Immediately after that, Tomoya refused to come out of his room, and by the time he finally went to the hospital, it was declared to be untreatable."
Anon he didn't deserve it for fucking, people do that all the time. No, this was for something far more deviant.
Dammit anon, this is a blue board! Spoiler that shit!
He dies with Tomoyo too
You're going to have an awfully hard time finding it in any of the episodes. Its a scene from the movie.
Yeah, here's the scene guys.
Was that necessary? I never watched the movie anyway. I just don't see the point of watching a movie which is basically a summary of a series
Yeah I wouldn't recommend it.
It's a horrible, horrible film.
I did skim through it, but I seen enough to know it wasn't worth the time to even do that
anon plz no
it hurts anon
YOU MOTHERFUCKERS. I had to rewatch ep 22 and the recap just to fucking ease the pain you brought. FUCK YOU.
And about not seeing Nagisa: what are you talking about nigga?
>forced drama that gets fixed with dragon balls later
clannad is garbage and so is its fanbase
Watch the end of the recap. She apparently appears, but you never see her.
Yea well you do see her alive and kickin' after giving birth to Ushio, and then both Tomoya and Ushio hear her during the picnic. It's not like only Tomoya hears her or anything.
But the hallucination thing really put a bug in my ear for a second so I just had to confirm that those fuckers were just messing around.
We saw that in the actual show, though. I'm talking just the new stuff they added in the recap.
Wasn't even that sad for me.
I had only trouble with the part where they show what the father did for his son.
It should have just ended when he had accepted Nagisa's death and made up with his dad. It would have been a bittersweet good ending and they fucked it up. But it is Key, so magic is to be expected.
They did want to, but she went into labor two weeks early and the traffic wasn't moving because of the snow.
Someone post the lewd Ushio image again.
I regret now saving it.
Watch the OVAs.
Another World: Kyou
Sunohara being the ultimate bro.
Am I the only one who cried happy tears during after story as well? The part where after trying for days, maybe even weeks just to hit Akio's pitch to prove he was serious about marrying Nagisa was really powerful. I'm not sure why, but when he finally did it, it hit me hard.
Nah man, good drama hits you in all sorts of places. I didn't get tears then myself, but its completely reasonable to react that way to that scene. It's obviously what the creators wanted you to feel.
You aren't. At the end of the series [spoilers]when Nagisa and Ushio live[/spoilers] I cried like a little bitch.
You aren't. At the end of the series when Nagisa and Ushio live I cried like a little bitch.
Sunohara is a bro in every world.
>not recommending the vn