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Why haven't Counter Guardians shown up and killed everyone evolved in the Holy Grail War yet?

Isn't that what they're for?
>>
No. Counter Guardians are there to balance the force between Alaya and Gaia. The Grail Wars don't break the balance.
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Counter Guardian not needed
Shiki can kill servants
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Why didn't the Counter Guardians just stop Kerry from blowing up the plane?
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>>101102223
Because Avenger sorta escapes the whole Counter Guardin thing by being something wished by humanity. It is kinda tricky.
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You can't into Counter Guardians, can you? They only appear after a disaster happens. So they won't appear until Angry Manjew is born and starts killing everyone.
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So, how much more powerful is Emiya in his CG form compared to his heroic spirt/servant form? Did Nasu ever quantify the difference.
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>>101105436
Well Counter Guardians are fueled by Alaya right? So he wouldn't be bound by a lack of prana.
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the hell is the holy grail anyway

just some powerful force that felt like 'showing up' suddenly totally had no problem being a subject to some fucked up game some families made up? Why even go through all the formal shit, just backstab each other.

Yes, it's been a while since I read the vn
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>>101105515
CGs are backed up by Alaya.
>The Counter Forces have immense power at their disposal. However, only the appropriate amount is unleashed to address a particular event. If the threat possesses an amount of power equal to X, then the Counter Force will deploy an amount of power just enough to snuff out X and eliminate the threat. The amount of power can be as small as nudging individuals into place through "coincidences", but it can also be as great as sinking an entire continent.
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>>101104743
A born AM would be cause enough to summon the guardians. Archer recognizes the Shadow as something he's fought before etc.
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>>101105882
They made the fucking grail, you idiot.
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Fuck.
I just realized Arcueid has the same VA as Satsuki Kiryūin from Kill la Kill.
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With AM got unleashed, would Zelretch care enough to stop it?
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>>101107331
Zelretch would convince Angry Man Jew to be a Nicer Man Jew and simply screw people out of their money.
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>>101106559
Why? Just make a grail for everyone then, big deal.
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>>101105882
I doubt you read it in the first place.
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>>101102223

Angry Manjew aint born yet.

Counter Guardians arnt proactive, they are reactionary. They only get summoned once shit has already started to go down and then they clean up the problem very clinically.
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>>101107331
AM would barely be a big deal.

The planet has experienced worse situations before.

Primate Murder deciding it wants to run around and play is a bigger threat than AM
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>>101107737
They are proactive, they will change the future if they need to
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>>101105436

He has as much power has he needs to deal with the situation he encounters, nothing more
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>>101108589

They are not proactive at all. They will only step in AFTER something has happened.

They are like White Blood Cells. White Blood cells dont proactively prepare themselves for a new infection (imunisations not withstanding). They react to it occuring.
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Counter Guardians react to a disaster, they don't show up early to stop it before things get out of hand.
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>>101102223
No, Counter Guardians can only be summoned if times when the world/humanity is actually on the brink or can really be threatened

If Angya Manyu got out and started killing all humans then Nasu said the answer is still for the most part "Maybe they'd be summoned, though it's hard to say". A Guardian will only be summoned when shit is real, not for some "maybe maybe" situation like a grail war, but rather something that actually threatens humanity.
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>>101105882
A Holy Grail is a designation by the Church as "Anything that can grant a wish", and there have been over seven-hundred Holy Grail sitings or confiscations to date as noted by Kotomine.

A Holy Grail does not mean a Holy Grail War each time, rather it just means something that can create a wish no matter how it does it. Of course none of the Holy Grail's are the real Grail, it's just a designation.
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>>101102223
Umm... no?
>>101102398
Also no. If Gaian Counter Forces started annihilating humanity, Alaya wouldn't even lift a finger to help anyone.
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>>101107775
>Primate Murder deciding it wants to run around and play
But CGs of Alaya will never fight PM. Any event caused by Gaia, Alaya will not respond to.
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So if Gil decided to use EA at full power and blow up the world, then a counter guardian would stop him? Is there any instances we know of where a counter guardian has been used already?
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>>101113027
His NP if used all all can't blow up the world, and at most it would probably take out the Shinto region. It's listed as Anti-World because the world is what it attacks when used properly rather than just shooting off beams at other servants willy nilly.

When used correctly it can temporarily bust a hole in Gaia's planetary phantasm to reveal the primordial world, but the holes are fixed rather quickly as well. Anti-World does not mean "Can blow up the world" as there are five other Anti-World NPs out there and we get a pretty good idea of what they really do when looking at them,
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>>101112693
So where is the real grail?
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Because they are summoned to clean up messes, not stop them.
That's part of why Archer hates his job.
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>>101113223
The real Grail doesn't give you magic powers or material wealth; it's stated in CCC rather clearly that a selfish grail that grants all Earthly desire is kind of the opposite of what Christ taught, and more in line with the Beast and the Whore of Babylon.

Because it's a fake it can be "real" in terms of wish granting, but the real thing would do nothing of the sort. At least Indiana Jones had some basis for "He who drinks from this will have eternal life", but one of the twists about the nature of the HG that we never got until he spelled it out is that it was a bit obvious when you really stop to think about it here.
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>>101113442
Also here's the bit from CCC

>Golden Chalice <Aurea Boura>(? アウレア・ボーウラ): EX
>The golden chalice that BB holds. As well as a Holy Grail.
>A negative Holy Grail that grants the impudent, self-centered wishes of the owner.

>The chalice possessed by the Whore of Babylon that appears in the Revelation of St. John.
>A pseudo-Holy Grail, but exactly because it is a fake Holy Grail that it became a "genuine" Holy Grail that grants the desires of humans regardless of right and wrong.

>To the Christians that treated the honorable poverty of those days as virtue, a chalice molded with a symbol of riches such as gold evidently had connotations of corrupted wealth, greed and the vanity of adorning oneself.

>Although it was clear from the point that this was the chalice held by the Whore of Babylon - the personification of the Roman Empire - but this chalice has inverted Christ's words of "Do not pile up wealth on the land" and symbolizes the earthly wealth.

>"I saw a single woman straddled on a red beast.
>That beast, whose whole body was covered with numerous names that blasphemed God, had seven heads and ten horns."

>According to the Revelation, this is the description of the beast of ruin that appeared in the Holy City and the woman that was straddled on said beast.
>A giant beast possessing seven heads as if the Hydra was said to appear from the sea and land on the Holy City.
>This beast and woman are one and the same, it is impossible to think about them detached from each other.

>The woman is treated as one who brings forth all evils, it has been said that the imprudent and avaricious are unable to oppose her temptation and corrupted by this chalice.

>This is a digression, but the Red Saber who call herself an Emperor has been regarded in the same light as this beast and antagonized by the laymen after her death.
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Who's the stronger Nasuverse character? Gun God? Type Moon? Type Earth? Shiki?
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>>101106020
>Archer recognizes the Shadow as something he's fought before

Wrong, according to Nasu, it's something like he has fought before, but he never fought Angra Mainyu. It's very hard to tell if they can once he's born, because while weaker than Primate Murder, he's conceptually stronger against anything that was once human.
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>>101113695
ORT
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>>101105935
>Fiamma of the Right was a CG
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>>101112873
It is specifically stated that around 7 CGs are needed to restrain Primate Murder when its playtime has gone on for far too long.

CGs aren't sent to fight Primate Murder, but to be its babysitters.
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>>101113223
In Spain
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>>101113027
No, the only anti-planet NP Nasu said was introduced for the first time ever in Fate is Kaira's NP.
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>>101113442
>>101113536

So like Fuyuki Grail.

Technically Mooncell (and BB) can materialize the real grail, but really there's no use for it.
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>>101113864
It's easy when you think about it, the reason why they would be able to go against Primate even if they couldn't normally go against Gaia is because Primate doesn't always follow the will of Gaia. Sometimes he just loses it and starts eating humans, and in those cases they're allowed to step in. He's pretty feral, but these days all he really does is bum around with Arc's sister it seems. However the fact he takes orders from Arc's sister might be an indicator that he doesn't always have to follow the will unless ordered.
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>>101113983
>All the World's Desire [Noble Phantasm]
Angra Mainyu/CCC.
The anti-planetary Noble Phantasm of reborn Kiara.
The most heinous of Noble Phantasms, which uses the Earth for masturbation.

This shit is great.
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>>101114008
She could materialize the grail, but the grail would really just be a humble cup by all indications. Remember Indiana Jones yet again; Jesus wouldn't drink out of some jewel encrusted diamond cup while he was down on Earth, because the guy was humble and lived in poverty spreading the word wherever he could. It wouldn't be some gaudy magic cup, by rather a simple cup used to distribute liquids. The true meaning was in the spirit of which he offered it, as the wine was his blood and the bread was his body, whoever shall drink and eat with him would earn eternal life in Heaven.
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>>101113864
>It is specifically stated that around 7 CGs are needed to restrain Primate Murder when its playtime has gone on for far too long.
No, NONONONONO. THAT was an example of powerlevels.

Nasu was answering a question on how powerful Primate Murder and Counter Guardians were. Nasu said it would take 7 CGs to just restrain PM.

Nasu never said that CGs would actually restrain Primate Murder.

Where did you even get that?
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>>101114459
To add, the reason why Alaya will never send CGs to stop Gaia blowing humanity the fuck up is the very same reason that they will NOT show up if a massive tsunami/earthquake/storm/etc occurs and BTFO of humanity.

They are natural phenomena of the planet. That humanity is under the mercy of. Like a huge lion eating its prey, if Primate Murder decides to eat a billion humans, that's merely the cycle of life.
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>>101114219
>Use the earth for masturbation
I can do that too, just give me a shovel and a quite place among the trees
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>>101102223
Why is British food considered shit?
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>>101114948
Because Gawain

>When it comes to meals, it is about quantity over quality, is it not? Large quantities of potatoes & vinegar & bread. That, along with ale, is enough for satisfy me. And vegetables as well. Eating carrots alone would do. That king and his fellows consumed those meals without a single complaint.
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>>101107648
The abilities to do it has been lost. And the sacrifices needed weren't exactly something appreciated.
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>>101113223
The real Grail will only show up when someone is smart enough to summon Galahad or someone breaks the system again like in Fate/Extra and summons Jesus.
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>>101115313
Why summoning Galahad would be smart?
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>>101107282
Best girl is best girl, as expected.
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>>101115854
He's the only person who has actually obtained the Holy Grail out of his purity. To add, he was the most powerful of the Knights of the Round. If I remember correctly, Lancelot only draws with Gawain until the sun starts setting.

Galahad beats the shit out of him straight up.
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>>101115854
Galahad is the knight who literally completed the Grail Quest.

He was the only fucker ever to find it.

He then was given the option to fuck off to heaven whenever he wanted to.

And he feels like it right before Lancelot and Arthur's falling out and WOOPS sorry Arthur you just lost the only knight who could slap sense into Lancelot, I just wanted to go to heaven and all that
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>>101115313
Even if you break the system can you summon Gods? I thought that was flat out impossible period
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>>101115854
Galahad actually found the grail
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>>101116154
In Extra the Buddha was summoned as a Servant

And since Jesus is a similair existence as the Buddha, it makes sense that you can probably summon him too.

He's not God, he's God made man. Extra is the only reason we can even consider it
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>>101116143
Eternal bliss and fulfillment forever with the approval of God

The struggle of the mortal coil

HMMMMMM
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>>101116233
>In Extra the Buddha was summoned as a Servant
>And since Jesus is a similair existence as the Buddha, it makes sense that you can probably summon him too.

Yeah...but isn't nothing in CCC actually real? It's all in a computer isn't it?
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>>101116154
Mooncell is different

It's a computer far beyond anything on Earth in power that is sort of a data-base that has been recording all since conception, and anything that's ever appeared on Earth before it can summon a data copy of without even much effort. It can summon over a hundred servants with some being gods easily, and the grail war program takes up only a small fraction of it's overall memory.

One of the three main servants you can pick in the game is a divine spirit
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>>101116233
That being said he probably wouldn't be summoned with a grail phantasm but some sort of ability with the redemption of sin
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>>101116324
It still happens in it's own Mooncell Network, that is a perfect recreation of the person in question down to the soul itself, all the people are real as they have teleported their souls straight to the Mooncell to take part in the battle, it's not even a question if the servant is real anymore since it's such a perfect copy of the person. The computer is an Aristotle of sorts as mentioned in the Data-book, and the Mooncell Network is lightyears in diameter here. It's like Megaman Battle Network, the Network battles do still happen, they happen side by side with the Earthly stuff, and they do effect the real world, but you can't really cross the two streams without a lot of effort on some part.
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>>101102223
Church itself was supposed to keep the shit from hitting the fan, but Kotomine was anything but neutral.
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>>101116525
Neat stuff
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>>101116233
>He's not God, he's a man made God
fix'd
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>>101116835
Mooncell is sort of and sort of not a physical location, but Arcuied was physically transported there along with her master so that's still a bit up in the air. Maybe it's more like Megaman Star Force here. After all the Mooncell physically is the Moon, but when someone goes on the Network they're really basically transforming the soul into data and sending it aboard the alien computer network that's on the Moon rather than physically being on the Moon's surface.
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>>101115313
Because he's french fanfiction material.
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>>101117197
And Arthur isn't Brit fanfiction material?
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So anything come from that possible news regarding Fate anime earlier?
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>>101117030
It doesn't hurt that Mooncell is old as Gilgamesh
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>>101117901
It's older, it's at the very least 8000 years old since it creates a data copy of the original god who beings like Gilgamesh were created from which makes him a faker, but the Mooncell is actually far older than even that.

The original is Catalhoyuk's forgotten goddess 8000 years ago who was the mother of the earth goddesses who created the earth and the “root” that created all creation
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>>101114008
The real grail pales in comparison to the Moon Cell's power (which is said to be related the true demons, which are above even Gaia in power) anyways.
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>>101114560
Which is hilarious in retrospect because even without Araya, humanity managed to adapt and proved far more resilient than Gaia ever could have hoped that they outlived her.

Heh.
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>>101118142
It's not quite that it's related to True Demons, and it would be more like it's an Aristotle based on one comment from the data book. It's not to be confused that someone simply stole the power of the Mooncell at the end of the game and used her servant to transform herself into a True Demon or god, but ended up falling from the throne because of her own mistake.
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>>101118297
There are hints that it was crafted by the precursors. I'm not talking about the slut priest.
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Why is she so possesive?
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>>101118431
Because she has the mental age of a 12 year old.
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>>101118431
Well, to be fair Shiki killed her first.
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>>101113733
>>101106020
Time for some doujin explanation!
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>>101118431
Look at this handsome killing machine and tell me why she won't be possessive.
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>>101120622
Nasu mentioned that Shirou fought things like that while alive, but he was powerless to ever do anything so retreat was the only option much to his frustration. Upon reaching the Throne he researched what those things were and understood them as the enemy of the Counter Force or something.

It wasn't a postmortem thing, but something he experienced in life.
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>>101121834
Well, you certainly got me there.
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>>101121834
Why the fuck is he eating burgers? What the fuck is a curry burger? Fuck that burger. Seriously. Fuck it.
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>>101107331
I have no clue. What motivation does Zelretch even have? I'm sure he's encountered plenty of more fucked up dimensions than AM getting unleashed.
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>>101122513
>Why the fuck is he eating burgers?
I'll give you 2 hints:
>Curry
>Ass
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>>101107737
>clean up the problem very clinically.

Isn't it sad, Shirou..

Where are your ideals now?
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>>101122839
Shit, right?
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>>101118454
don't.... all fate girls have that problem?

seibah can't get over her honor and duty, rin expects everybody to be just like she is and sakura is dependent as fuck.
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>>101123006
>>101122839
>>101122513
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>>101123078
It never gets old.
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I recently started Kagetsu Tohya, but I have to find out. Is there a route for best girl?



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