[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k] [s4s] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/a/


File: vlcsnap-2192867.png (516 KB, 704x396)
516 KB
516 KB PNG
There sure are a lot of suicides from bullying in anime and manga. Why is that? What ever happened to the breaking point, when it comes time to kick some ass? I tell you what, if anyone ever stabbed me with a compass they would suffer severe brain damage. I broke a guys fingers once when he tried to pull a knife on me.

The world today is raising a generation of pussies.
>>
Internet Tough Guy alert.
>>
>>10106052
No, an internet tough guy makes physical threats and attempts to bully people online. Dumbass.
>>
people killing themselves is more interesting
>>
People killing themselves is funny.
People hurting other people is stupid.
>>
>>10106083
No, they're both funny. Suicide is just the funnier of the two.
>>
Sigh, this brings back memories. I once tied a fat kids feat to his desk with his shoelaces. Well i always did when that idiot fell asleep in class. Teacher always had to untie him. It was a riot.
>>
>>10106100
yeah but the point is, you never see them BREAK and fight back. Maby its all the media sending a msg to kids? That its better to kill your self then to to come to school with a .45 and seek revenge. All tho resorting to weapons is just as spineless as a 3 on 1.
>>
>>10106175
Because they don't. Fuck, have you ever been to Japan? The kids are pussies, this isn't anything new.
>>
>>10106190
Lol, nevada-tan.
>>
>>10106216
She wasn't being bullied. She was just a crazy bitch. Japan has plenty of those.
>>
>>10106216
Lol, one person.
>>
because anime appeals to the fat, depressed, unathletic male which would never conceivably fight back if he got in some fight or flight situation.

therefore it's easier to relate to being submissive and killing yourself.
>>
Guy has a point.

I was watching Magikano or whatever, and I just noticed how the main character kid was being spoiled, pampered and utterly emasculated at every corner. That and what's with this subtle sex=power idea creeping into this and Marubaho [that other magic anime thing?]

Just some observations. There are plenty of other series out there where the main character MAN'S UP. I just cant think of any off the top.
>>
>>10106227
>because anime appeals to the fat, depressed, unathletic male
So authors try and score sympathy by telling them to submit to what they've been pressured and dominated by? Rather than appealing to a fantasy where they could fight back and possibly win?
>>
sigh, i remember this one time in class. There was this jock who i liked to pick on, he liked to pick on me who it was even. This one day he had one of those aluminum super thin rulers and he was tapping my arm in the same spot over and over again. At first it was nothing but after 30 times in the same place it really hert and i started twitching after each hit. Finlay i stood up and picked up a large wooden ruler and cracked across his back with the sharp side. Lucky the teacher only saw us squaring up to throw down, we would have got OSS if she saw us a second later.
>>
>>10106083
They're both stupid.
>>
>>10106523

>They're both awesome.
>>
A professor once told me this;

When the Americans get depressed, they attack everyone else, and when the Japanese get depressed, they attack themselves.

Obviously our Amerikkkan way of handling things is superior.
>>
itt underage b&, internet tough guys, "I coulda," and people missing the fact that Japanese bullying is more often a whole class--even an entire grade--shunning one person as a collective being. So what. You fight back, beat up one kid who bullies you more than the others. That just affirms the rest of them should have nothing to do with you, and you've dug your hole deeper.
>>
There are consequences for breaking. The bullied don't think any of it is funny, and we have to get violent to prove that point? Bullies should not be surprised if they are killed. If we were to break, we'd end up pulling a Kotonoha and then it wouldn't end up being so funny anymore.
>>
seriously, if you come to the point that you are thinking about suicide because of a bulling, wouldn't it be better to at least think of returning the violence? You got nothing to lose.
>>
File: 1205009168898.gif (95 MB, 268x172)
95 MB
95 MB GIF
This sums up pretty much everything I have to say to bullies and the people who support them.
>>
>>10106577

you have everything to lose. In America, you'd get "championed" or at least "defended" for standing up to a bully. At the very least, your parents would possibly be proud of you, and you may even gain new friends.

In Japan, you'd most likely be expelled, have no educational future, bring shame to your family, and be shunned for the rest of your life. You'd be remembered as "that crazy kid" who "went bad," if you were remembered at all, which is unlikely.
>>
I was a really nerdy looking kid in highschool, but took weight training for a year and a half already. I only look scrawny because I wear baggy clothes.

One day in my sophomore year during lunch, this russian sophmore jock was eating across me on the same table. I was eating my lunch minding my own business. When some how I glanced a stare at him because he has such a square jaw.

Apparently he didn't like it, he got up and walked across and punched me in the face knocking my glasses off.

I didn't know what came over me. But when I came to, the russian kid was on the floor all bloodied up and bearly conscience. From that day on no one messed with me since. Oh I was suspended for 1 week for that stunt.
>>
>>10106553
no i disagree. Its normally a few people but the class or grade goes along with it just so they don't get targeted. If you removed the ones who are instigating it the rest would just go on with there own lives. Like a TV show that you love, when it gets canceled you don't go to the studio and start making it on your own.
>>
>>10106551
It's funny how you missed the fact that the problem persists and thus we fail. It's like hitting reset on Hinamizawa over and over again, you're not getting anywhere until you solve the problem - bullying.

If any of you think that bullying is not a big deal, then do us a favor and do not breed and create offspring.
>>
>>10106624
Commiting suicide is pretty shameful to your family too, right? I mean if you're going to kill yourself, at least beat the fuck out of them and THEN kill yourself.

Some vengeance before you went out.
>>
>>10106645

Realistically, though, how would you "get rid" of them? Even if you kill the bully and get expelled/locked up, the rest of the class would most likely forget about you. They wouldn't want to be associated with you any more than they did when you were the target.
>>
>>10106662

Not really. People would most likely feel sorry for your parents, but suicide is not looked upon with the same disdain as it is in the West. Suicide is, to an extent, a way to take yourself out of the equation, save your family pain, and still save some face.
>>
File: 1205009449416.jpg (58 KB, 1024x576)
58 KB
58 KB JPG
>>10106624
People don't revere you in America as often as you think. I stood up to a bully at my school, got expelled from the school, and everybody thought I was a homicidal maniac because of Columbine. The bullies made up stories and people believed them.
>>
>>10106040
When I was a kid, I was waiting in line to go inside after recess and I stabbed a kid in the back with my compass. I don't know why, and I didn't even know the kid. It seemed like a good idea at the time
>>
>>10106633
You are our champion.
>>
ITT: Stories made up by bullied faggots fantasizing what they wish they had done.
>>
>>10106692
Then that means that Eastern logic is inferior. Who would've thunk it?
>>
>>10106251
A long time ago I had a secret desire with Maburaho.

I hoped so much that the little magical reading of "8" was just the sensor bugging the fuck out and showing up the number 8 as it was the closest looking symbol to infinity. That the main character did indeed have powerful magic but without a limit and when he wastes that "last use" he comes to a realization.

He's not dead, he hasn't dissapeared, he's still casting magic powerful enough to alter the planet's weather cycle at a whim. He's no longer bound by a society that favours those with higher numbers and that the people who belittled and laughed at his expense for oh so long were wrong. He snaps, overwhelms himself with clarity and realization, annihalating those that belittled him not just their bodies but completly wiping them away from memory and history. Tormenting those that wanted him just for the potentiality of his future child only to stop to realize that they truely did love him.

Instead we got Ghost Slide.

Sure, suicide is entertaining in the short term. Great for that initial shock factor of "Oh wow, it was so bad he killed himself!" The problem however is that the persons responsible show next to no remorse. The bullies shrug their shoulders and go find a new target, the school decides to do nothing but protect their image and the classmates mostly just dissolve into chinese whispering rumours. Animu and Mango never really take advantage of the suicide card just another "Oh, it wasn't so bad that he had to kill himself, LAWL.".

Characters snapping and going beserk are in the long run much more exciting to me. When that poor little character takes one punch to the face to many and goes MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK BER-SER-KAR it shows that character still has selfworth and suddenly the weakest persona suddenly jumps up your list of favorites just because he had enough.
>>
>>10106735

It only seems inferior because you think your way is superior. You can't ever really "experience" what it means to be Japanese, so it will seem foreign to you. But that doesn't make it wrong, either.
>>
>>10106705

What the fuck!!?!?!

One time I was standing in the lunchline at school and some kind randomly stabbed with with a compass!!!

I didn't even know the fucker.

Maybe it was you?
>>
>>10106633

lame, you couldn't remember the ass kicking? The memory is half the fun.

I just remember a funny story from high school. There was these two guys that got hostel with each other over some woman or something like that. One day the dumbass hit the dipshit and got caught. The dipshit didn't defend him self or anything and just took the hit. They both got ISS. the dumbass got it for hitting the dipshit and the dipshit got it for putting other people in harms way. I thought that injustice was FUCKING FUNNY.
>>
>>10106756
It doesn't matter which side of the world you live. Progressive thought states that suicide is backwards logic, which doesn't advance or change society.

Inferior.
>>
OP gets an 11/10. This is the most successful troll I've ever seen on /a/.
>>
>>10106662
What a shitty existence that would be. I don't think any one of us want to "go out" at all.
>>
Oh, and who else read the Book Thief? Remember the beginning where everyone makes fun of loli Liesel and she fucking SNAPS and jumps on a kid, kicks him in the nuts, knocks him down and starts biting and slashing at him?

Fucking RAG.
>>
>>10106803
Oh no, I'm just saying if you've already decided to off yourself.

Might as well get some revenge while you're at it.
>>
ITT- Complete and utter bullshit.
>>
Bullies are the result of our gene's tendency to want to be superior. It's just natural selection, our genes are self-weeding the weak instead of ordinary trials, because no-one fucking dies ever.
Alpha-male bullshit. Usually the stupid cannot control these biological urges and end up suppressing the weaker gene.
>>
>>10106794
You haven't been here long, have you?
>>
>>10106790

What progressive thoughts are those? Most people who deride suicide as "Bad" tend to be pretty non-progressive, in the fact they think a man on a cross is going to send them into a big pit of fire for it.
>>
>>10106734
tuffguy
>>
I'm having a very similar argument from 3 years ago.

Being "Japanese" is not enough of an excuse to do illogical things. You're trying to shift the burden from the individual to the collective, and that's not how it works. Change yourself.
>>
>>10106765
...Shit, man, I'm sorry. It was nothing personal.
>>
>>10106840
Now that's a straw man. I hold none of the cross-teachings.

Progressive thought as in the suicide problem in Japan hasn't changed. Your situation hasn't changed; the bullies are still free to change targets. Nothing has changed, not even the punishment the bullies were supposed to get. They've essentially taken the quick, non-responsible way out.

Non-progressive and inferior.
>>
>>10106820
Sorry if i offend some of the spinless wimps, that escape reality because of bullies, with my high school stories. Grow a pair and get some self respect.

If these little unembellished stories are over your head, then your life must have sucked, or continues to suck.
>>
>>10106902

To view suicide as anything but selfish is incorrect, but it is, to the Japanese, an acceptable form of selfish behavior for those who aren't "able" enough to save themselves.

Dishonor and being bullied aren't all that dissimilar in regards to suicide and how the Japanese view it--if you can't work your way out of it any other way than violence, you've already failed at pretty much your entire life, so you may as well do everyone a favor and call it quits.
>>
>>10106815
If you use your brain you know that you'd be dealing with your pain at the expense of others, and that would be wrong.
>>
The bullying in Japanese schools is far more likely to take the form of a slow and deliberate psychological attack rather than a physical assault. And it is especially effective due to the high-pressure nature of the Japanese educational system at that level. Also remember that in Japanese culture it is going to be assumed that if one person is having problems getting along with his/her classmates, it is because something is wrong with that individual. Responding with physical violence will merely demonstrate to everyone concerned that you are indeed a problem child and possibly mentally unstable as well. And high school in Japan is not compulsory education, and they are not required to babysit delinquents. You can be a slacker all you want, but if you are disruptive or make the administration look bad your ass is out of there.
>>
>>10106948
>acceptable form of selfish behavior

That's bad. AND non-progressive.

>you've already failed at pretty much your entire life

If you think that because some pricks took advantage of you during your school years, you've failed completely at life... that's bad. That's very bad.
>>
>>10106692
Suicide is selfish and only causes more pain for everybody who gives a shit about you, because you're dead.
>>
>>10106958
At the expense of those who deserve it. I'm not saying kill them, naturally. I'm saying throw some punches, then off yourself.

Even if you get the shit beaten out of you, you had one more stab at making them taste dirt.
>>
>>10106998

read >>10106983.

Unlike America, where HS is not only "king" but compulsory, you have to suffer through it. Japan, not so much--if you don't go, they don't really care either way or why.
>>
>>10106948
I see what you mean. Growing up in the Midwest gives you whole different mindset. Where i come from suicide is shameful and an easy way out. You get no respect for it. You would get more respect for manslaughter of a school bully then you would for quietly departing for the next world.
>>
>>10107024
Interesting. But I am making an argument that killing yourself isn't a progressive idea.

He's just describing Japanese bullying to me and why it is hard to fight back.
>>
>>10107024
Even more so, things like that need to change. So people need to make it change. Killing yourself changes nothing.

That's why it is backwards, and the much-touted phrase "You're a foreigner, you can't understand" now comes to "You're Japanese, and you are still wrong."
>>
>>10107062
>>10107084

The problem is, though, that the "system" works--bullied nerds aren't going to be able to change anything by suddenly fighting back. Japan is very much a society where tossing one person in front of a train to save fifty is not only acceptable, but encouraged.
>>
>>10107023
I disagree. I know of a better solution. Its waiting behind a tree when you know that person is comming home on a dark night. With a lead pipe and a mask. If you break his legs he wont be able to bully you anymore and you don't need to kill your self.
>>
You all seem to be forgetting that school shootings are fucking awesome. It's always humorous seeing the reporters interviewing the kids and seeing the kids say stuff like "Yeah, he was kinda quiet and always got picked on", then we cut to the jocks who say things like "He was kinda weird and we used to push him around... but it was a joke y'know", then they cut to the teachers who usually say "We have a long standing and rigorous anti-bullying policy in this school" and all the while you're just thinking "bullshit bullshit bullshit, a kid got picked on, nobody tried to help and subsequently you all got owned".
>>
>Japan is very much a society where tossing one person in front of a train to save fifty is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

...Needs of the many outweigh needs of the few. Of course. That's not what I am talking about.

>bullied nerds aren't going to be able to change anything by suddenly fighting back.

And that thought mentality is why absolutely nothing has ever changed, and nothing will change. And what makes it worse is that Japanese parents endorse this "shunning" concept.

People and their parents need to stand up for themselves even if there are consequences for doing so.
>>
When i was in middle school i always used to get bullied by girls a whole fucking class of them ugly fat little sluts

Six fucking years of mind fuckery i always told myself your a man your not supposed to hit girls , my mother would always tell me fighting doesint solve anything, six years of enduring beatings and humiliations my anger building into me.

Until that one day i snapped letting all my rage and anger out, i said enough proceeded to grab a chair and then i went to the one, to the one that started it all, the one that showed my weak side to the others, i proceeded to beat her with the chair she said no im sorry, im sorry while she was crying in pain but no i didint stop i didint at least until the teacher came and proceeded to jump on me.

Later as i finished middle school and went to high school that the bullying stopped but i realized on thing sever damage to my mind had been made each time a girl would try to approach me i would get scared so much scared that i wouldint even be able to move.

Now that thing has passed away as i grew older but i haven't forgotten, That women are infact monsters its not the first time that i have been asked out due to unlike my older self ive very good looking but unfortunately i cannot forget.
>>
>>10107286
Hahaha, BULLSHIT.
>>
>>10107266
While I don't think school shootings are "awesome", I do find the afterwards-bullshit to be quite entertaining.

"Oh, we didn't know... just teasing..."

Yeah yeah, you tortured a kid and expected nothing to happen. Nice work.
>>
>>10107323
But teasing (and even abuse) are NORMAL.

People are DESIGNED to find an expendable receptacle for their woes, and shovel shit into him until he pops.

The difference today is: the receptacle knows he can shoot you.
>>
>>10107266
Nothing ruins a good school shooting like a poorly written manifesto though, that Virgina Tech one was particularly embarrassing.
>>
I lashed out violently everytime anyone tried it. One wannabe hardcore black dude was talking shit and a punched the fucker in the diaphragm and went about my business, he never bothered me again. A few kids thought it'd be funny to mess with me in elementary school by one person grabbing me from behind and then the other person doing something until I broke the guy's grip (that was grabbing me) and chased the other guy down, etc.

There was always a case or two whenever I went to a new school of people trying to prove something but I made sure they knew better after that.
>>
>>10107286
You're not supposed to hit a lady.

You can hit all the dumbass bitches you want. A bitch needs to be put in her place, just like a male asshole.
>>
>>10107360
No, it isn't normal. There's a massive difference between harmlessly teasing someone and, say, shoving their head down a toilet and destroying their possessions.
>>
>>10107384
What part of the country are you from?
>>
>>10107360
Teasing is normal. Abuse is not.

But you're right about the woes thing.
>>
>>10107397

You can tell shes a bitch, a couple of years ago she was on the news for trowing her newborn baby which she had at the age of 16 into the garbage
>>
>>10107431
Deep south, where returning the favor of bullies is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

Unless they're the sons of politicians or whatever.
>>
>>10107460
That does sound Southern, lol.
>>
>>10107460
Ahh its good to see some backbone in this thread. I knew you couldn't be from the east or west coast.
>>
When I was in fourth grade I had no friends in my class, was bullied constantly, and my teacher didn't notice at all.
Finally, I was kicked out of the lunch table I usually sat at, so had to sit across from a bunch of random guys I barely knew, and they started messing with me, and my bottled up anger just exploded and I jumped up and started screaming at them in the middle of the crowded cafeteria.
Then I got put in Guidance for the rest of the year. And they still kept doing it too. God, my last two years of elementary school sucked.
So did middle school.
>>
>>10107490
thing is, everyone knew I was a nerd too. I used to play MtG all the time back then and I was quiet and kept to myself or hung out with other nerds.

Guess people got the wrong idea.
>>
If guns were as easily available to us Brits as they are to our American cousins I'm sure we'd have crazy school shootings over here too. The only British school shooting that immediately springs to my mind is Dunblane which involved a crazy 43 year old shooting a bunch of children for no reason, which isn't cool.
>>
>>10107566
What about high school?
>>
>>10107555
Same with me. I played that game, i ate at the nerd table. But the jocks never bullied the nerds. Sure every now and then you may have a tatortott hit you in the back of the head but no one cared.

This one time of the nerds that i had never seen express any form of self defence or rage had a MtG card come up missing. It was a rare card and i can understand. He thought i took it because i asked if i could see it. His friend hid it from him as a joke. He came after me in the hallway and pinned me up against my locker demanding to know where his card was. I was so shocked that this guy was stepping up that i couldn't move. He got his card back like 2 minutes later.

At my school the people that got picked on were the goths. You had to be careful with the goths. Sure you all call them EMO and what not but where i come from... Ill say this, they could take a lot of abuse but when it came time to defend them selves they got the job done.
>>
>>10107704
High school finally got better for the most part.
>>
>>10107555
My high school was pretty good about this sort of thing. No one knew about my anime-watching (power levels) but there was general nerdship across the board.
>>
worst I had was someone hitting me with a ruler, leaving a large bruse along my back and the occational jerk who called me out and my brother had to seperate us before he got his ass kicked by me. not to mention that time being called a chicken fucker out of the blue. the artist couldn't draw for shit.
>>
File: 1205013401206.jpg (48 KB, 480x351)
48 KB
48 KB JPG
>>10107706
>>You had to be careful with the goths
BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
>>
I go to a school where it seems like everyone and their dog does some kind of drug, but it's not violent or intolerant at all. I think we have 1, maybe two real fights a year. So I've never experienced any bullying despite being a classic nerd. I consider myself lucky.
>>
>>10107555
My high school didn't have cliques. The nerds hanged with the jocks, and all that shit. You can even speak with the popular kids and you won't call you a dweeb. Hell, I was "the artist" in my class and I never got shit for it, actually I was somewhat popular because of it.

I'm kinda sad that my high school never had the cliques and that shit just to see what people are talking about....
>>
>>10107903
Same here. Nerds were just another subset of people, next to the jocks, pregnant teenagers with IQs of 20, goths, musicians, etc.
>>
>>10107914
Be glad it didn't. my high school was full of rednecks and that got wierd when it began to have gothic rednecks, preppy rednecks... and they all talked the same too. I cringed for moving here, everyone kept saying they were related to each other
>>
>>if anyone ever stabbed me with a compass they would suffer severe brain damage

enjoy your jail-assrape
>>
I've always kept my power levels well hidden and did an excellent job fitting in. I was popular, not at the top of the food chain, but enough to be elected student body president. Didn't bully other kids, but my friends certainly did- usually the social rejects. I did nothing to stop since I didn't give a shit, and if I, who frequent the chans like crazy, can manage to fit, no pity for those that knowingly segregate themselves by being freaks irl.

People can give me shit for conforming or whatnot, but I had an excellent high school and college life. I got invited to all the parties, went out on dates, got laid on prom night, etc.
>>
School shootings are one of the few things that gives me hope for humanity.
>>
>>10106175

Yuremeshi from Yu Yu, wtfever beat asses on a regular.
>>
>>10108032
>Look at my giant penis.

Prom night was bullshit, I didn't go, enjoy your waste of time and money.
>>
>>10108032
I never really hid my power levels, but I never unleashed them either. Most of my friends knew I liked animu/mango and I got invited to parties, went on dates, was sorta popular in high school and college....

Conformity sucked and I never described to it even before I became a weeaboo. You just have to have the right attitude to pull it off.
>>
>>10108291
My prom night was awesome. Dancing, bad food which prompted me and my friends to go to McD's after the prom, and good ol' fashion high school drama before graduation.

Ah, good times, good times.
>>
>>10108291
I'm actually female, but if I was male- thanks for the compliment.

Prom was lots of fun and worth the hundreds of dollars I (read: my parents) spent.
>>
>>10108428

you're a girl? and you brag about losing your verginity at prom night?
HEY LOOK GUYS I KILL ANTS! HUNDREDS OF THEM!
>>
>>10108511
Chances are you're a virgin.

Still, no girls on the internet, cunt.
>>
>>10108032
>>10108428

You don't have to lie so much, anonymous, you card.

no matter how much you want your fantasies to become true, they won't.
>>
>>10108425
Prom night was awesome for me too, i ate good food, danced with a couple girls and then the after prom party was awesome because i got really drunk and really high and the next day was Canada Day so after the prom me and my friends just went to another persons house and stayed up all night drinking and smoking pot in our suits until the end of canada day.

GREATEST WEEKEND EVER.
>>
>>10108529

not really, no. but it wouldn't really change the fact that
getting laid as a girl = killing ants as a man
when it comes to toughness
>>
>>10108748

But killing ants is just pointless. Getting laid a lot as a girl makes you an broken and undesirable slut.
>>
>>10108819

nice try, but that's not the point. i said "when it comes to toughness".
girls manage to fit faaaaaar more easily that men in school. mostly because they are treated like some superior and untouchable species. a girl shouldn't even post in a thread like this.
and on top of all that, she showed off her experience on prom night like it's something hard to achieve as a girl. i mean, come on.
>>
>>10108914
Killing ants is a bigger achievement than a girl getting laid at prom. You have to leave your food out there for a while and wait for the ants to come. A girl can just whore herself and grab the first fucktard that comes her way.
>>
Ok im from Cal, so when a nigger or a dirty mexican (like myself) bully some one and you try to fight back one has to worry about a whole fucking gang of fuckers. Luckily, they mostly fight with themselves and are cowards.

but suicide from bullies is only ONE of many reasons people an hero. the books that deal with the psychology of a person with a suicidal mental state often come from a western origin but there are many others that encompass the whole world, specifically east asia.

Now, one also has to take into consideration time periods of which cultural norms have given a spotlight to suicide and bulling. School shootings and such have NOT increased in number but rather one EPIC shooting with huge press opened the fucking floodgates to increased coverage of every new school incident involving violence.

as to OP's question of why so many suicides in manga from bullies? lol, iunno



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.