Puella Magi Madoka Magica Thread?
Nice 39s Madoka.
No Kyouko allowed.
Anyone got that Hitomi X Mami abuse fic?
OP, this is not how you start a PMMM thread. Here, let me show you:
>Sayaka a shit
>Homura did nothing wrong
>QB did nothing wrong
>Mami a murderer
>Sayaka is straight
>Rebellion was shit
I've failed. I shall commit sudoku now.
>Rebellion was shit
This one is okay though
ha ha what a loser
Sayaka is so hot.
I just watched the series the other day, pretty good. Are the movies worth watching?
Homura a shit
Oriko was right
Hommando a best Homu
First two movies are recaps, third movie is a sequel.
Incorrect, Gothloli Homu is best Homu.
Bowmura > Moemura > shit > *
I got you bro
Why am I not doing this with my nendos?
so I just need to see the 3rd one or do the first 2 have better animation or something?
Because you are shit.
Entirely up to you if you care about the series enough to watch it again with fancier visuals. It's mostly the same. You should at least watch the OP for the recap movies though, because it's referenced in the third movie, sorta.
Better animation and arguably better music. The pacing is also pretty impressive.
For what purpose.
>The pacing is also pretty impressive
Yeah, impressively shitty.
I want to hug Mami-san.
I just finished watching this for the first time. I got an urge this morning to see what all the fuss was about, and I've been (at least) on the verge of tears since before the first OP. This has to be the single most tragic thing I have ever witnessed out of all the TV shows, movies, and anime I've watched, out of all of the books I've read and games I've played - this takes the cake. I thought I was upset when the witch killed Mami in like the 4th episode, but that was just the tip of the tear-jerking iceberg. I've never hated a character more than Kyubey. I understand where he was coming from, but that was just awful. I can't even describe how I feel right now coherently.
Also, Homura did everything right.
>Also, Homura did everything right.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Postin a sad Mami.
I want to hug Sayaka-chan.
Now we can be sad together.
Kyuubey is true neutral
He's like a human who watches over cattle, proves them an envirement without predators, but once they're fattened up he'll send them out to slaughter. There's no evil in his actions, rather he genuinely has no emotions and is just objectively moving to the best path he sees while not being held back by easier moralities, since everything is just a means to an end.
Go watch the sequel movie in order to understand properly "Homura did nothing wrong", because Kyuubey certainly gets fucked over there, but you'll also see the more selfish side of Homura as she makes a choice that's very splitting among the fandom in order to make her dreams come true. Objectively her choice could be correct, but at the same time it won't last.
The difference being that cattle have no choice while QB gives them the option to accept or not. Since his actions benefit the vast majority of existence, to try and fight QB is extremely selfish on a cosmic scale. That's why Homura a shit.
Suffering Mami is best Mami.
Also, Homura did nothing wrong.
>You will never get lessons on how to name your finisher
I want to hold hands with her
>Suffering Mami is best Mami.
I don't think any timeline has any other kind of Mami.
Seems to be doing pretty well with Bebe these days
Having a kid can really turn some people around I guess.
I really enjoyed the continuation of Homura's and Mami's emnity in the movie.
Nagisa a shit.
>You will never have a lewd threesome with Mami and her Doppelgänger.
It'll go pretty well until Bebe abandons her just like everyone else.
>You will never do anything with mami
>Implying Mami wouldn't be distracted the entire time trying to give positions unique names
Gotta learn to accept death some time
You don't have to rate her best but at least give the Homunyan the recognition of being on your inequality.
I need more
Doppelganger Mami would be best Mami because she would let you come inside every day.
Wasn't it implied somewhere that she got immortality as a side-effect of the wish?
...Are you talking about Candeloro?
I've got this.
Nah, just her strong will to live tethered her to life, which is why her magic power is ribbons
What a card.
Must have been thinking of something else, then. At least her ribbon decoys are cool.
Queen of /a/
But she's not here yet, she can't be the queen.
Uh, it's pretty clear that Love arrived.
Love only arrives when Homura learns to love herself.
Why do people ship these 2 together, again?
An interesting thought. Maybe that would mean the Homulilly doll is self-love and Madoka doll is love for Madoka?
It leaves holes though. Why is Mado doll in packaging? How come Homu doll has a nutcracker handcrank?
I am tempted to story time the whole thing but it is really pretty long.
We'll see the true Goddess teach her how to do true love. In sequel
Because they're polar opposites and Mami has a habit of tying Homu up which is really fucking hot.
So we bondage, now? With Mami the S and Homu the M?
Homu is always the M
This is turning lewd quickly.
There is a disturbing lack of Kyouko in this thread
Reversals are also permitted
>Mami's gently rides your lower part at the same time that her Doppelgänger carelessly bounces at top of your face
>for just a moment, you regretted having your vision of the real her blocked by just a puppet but the astoundingly resemblance of the decoy, as much in scent as at the touch, quickly brushed off those thoughts
>their combined assault almost immediately made you lose notion of the time. How long have you been doing this? An hour? Two? Fifteen minutes?
>still you can feel getting closer and closer to the edge and, although you can't really see her face, you know she is getting there as well
>just a moment before climaxing, the weight over your head disappears. The Doppelgänger violently burst in a whirlwind of yellow ribbons, swiftly pulling your bodies and tying both of you together at just the right time
I died a little inside writing this.
There's nothing dissatisfying about a life lived for love.
She doesn't have a Doppelgänger, I don't know what the fuck are you referring with this.
>there will never be another anime as epic as Madoka
Homura isn't really satisfied with her life though, "still not good, still not good".
Anon, I'm guessing you're waiting for BDs before you watch Rebellion?
>The Doppelgänger violently burst in a whirlwind of yellow ribbons, swiftly pulling your bodies and tying both of you together at just the right time
That sounds unpleasant
If she can't be with the one she loved, and if the one she loved also didn't get the best, then of course anything to her would be second place at best.
Doesn't that simply tie into her ending's multiple parallels to The Fool arcana? The Fool symbolizes optimistic new journeys. As in, Homura isn't done just yet. "The night is still half-eaten", so the song goes.
When will she be satisfied? Ever?
Are you talking about the clone made of ribbons? That's not really a Doppelgänger, anon.
Remember this? This.
What's with all this talk of depressed Homura? If she didn't want to do this, she wouldn't have. No one forced her to do anything. She did what no other magical girl did, and denied the cursed nature of witches, instead embracing despair.
Everyone who has seen Rebellion, please at least take a peek at Nietzsche's writings. There's a reason the Clara dolls echo, "Gott is tot."
Look up 'Amor fati'. Anything there sound familiar?
It can be hardly referred as such.
>What's with all this Madoka yearning of Homura? If she didn't want to do ascend, she wouldn't have. No one forced her to do anything. She did what no other magical girl did, and denied the cursed nature of witches, instead embracing despair.
Madoka confessed she wouldn't separate her beloved family and friends in Rebellion.
That forced Homura.
>In contemporary vernacular, the word doppelgänger is often used in a more general sense to identify any person that physically ‒ or perhaps even behaviorally ‒ resembles another person without regard to the word's original paranormal meaning, thus shifting it back to the original German meaning of look-alikes.
Fucking kids destroying the meaning of words.
Rereading this I just realized that I can't write anything lewd which doesn't overlap into rape.
I blame MGQ
Holy shit. I haven't ever seen shittier taste than this.
Agree, you have pretty shitty taste anon.
I will not even bother in insult you directly, so
>>101067397 please, refer to >>101067506
Are you sure that's not just your fault for knowing how to fucking quote?
Sayaka is love.
Sayaka a shit.
No wonder the thread is so slow. Needs more best girl.
>"Hmmm... Mom doesnt like working, she likes working hard. There are a lot of things that she doesn't like about it, but she likes the feeling of satisfaction she gets when she overcomes those obstacles, those achivements are precious to her. It doesn't mean that she dreamed to work for that company. But Mom is living her ideal life, and some dreams come true this way."
Junko is a prime example of the Will to Power. She shows that happiness itself is not the aim, but rather a side-effect of overcoming one's personal obstacles.
>Q: Do you have any marriage desires?
>Madoka: "It would be nice if I could find a cool husband like my mom..."
Someone like your mom, you say, Madoka?
Homu is not a rapist.
She raped Madoka, she's not a very good friend.
Hi, you must be new to yuri.
It's not rape if Madoka enjoyed it.
Mami is a lolicon
There are a lots of rape in yuri, that doesn't make it right, anon.
Someone is translating that doujin?
If Colorful's intro shows that Homura was unhappy with Madoka's world, then by that logic we can assume she was wrong to think Madoka was unhappy as a goddess since she was dancing along with the other girls right?
>not wanting to have a tea party with Mami-san
Nagisa is just a bitch, Mami deserves better.
I think it had a bit more to do with the dream world in some ways. They all liked it there, but Homura willingly killed paradise because she couldn't help feeling it was wrong.
Homura used that as an excuse, what did she think Madoka was just happy to abandon her friends and family back in ep. 12?
This whole thing was covered in the space hug, she mentioned that Madoka would be alone and she got an answer which amounted to "I'm with everyone everywhere so don't worry."
It's just a OP, It dont mean shit.
>what did she think Madoka was just happy to abandon her friends and family back in ep. 12?
Well yeah. She was willing to accept that Madoka was doing what she wanted to do. In Rebellion, she got the idea that Madoka was suffering doing it.
If mami wasn't in this show no one would have bought it.
>In Rebellion, she got the idea that Madoka was suffering doing it.
key word is "the idea", homufag apologists here argue that this idea is actually correct, as if Madoka regretted her whole sacrifice and Homura was doing her a favor by taking away her responsibility to do anything for anyone just like in the series.
The fact that Rebellion ends this with absolutely nothing visibly wrong with the world afterwards just adds to that frustration.
And people call yuri the purest form of love why?
I dont understand how you guys like this show.
The characters are uninteresting, the plot is predictable and ignores plot points to keep the story going for reasons, and the fights aren't anything real good either.
>someone actually believes this
She rape Madoka and then she erase the memories of what happened, Homura really is a horrible friend.
Yeah, it's not like Connect's lyrics had anything to do with the series. It's not like anything in Luminous had relevance to the movie or anything.
And Madoka will forgive her immediately because we can't have super saint Madoka showing any kind of emotion like anger. That would make her too human!
I'm an apologist for myself?
>Bawwwwww, Rebellion messed with my 'perfect' series ending so it must be bad!
Haha, fuck you and your "Homura's happiness is a necessary sacrifice" ending! Utilitarianism is shit as usual.
Aren't you misunderstanding something? Madoka was happy with her sacrifice, just like she was happy sacrificing herself a hundred times before. It's Homura who doesn't want to accept this and she understood that final wish wasn't any different, even if Madoka didn't die.
Homura doesn't want Madoka to have to sacrifice herself at all.
I think you are confusing me with someone else, I never implying any of that.
>Pretty much be the closest to Madoka than any other magical girl in that universe
>reassured you'll meet again in the afterlife
>can't go a year without Madoka before breaking down and going back to self-destructive ways
Homura was hardly sacrificing anything, her happiness was assured. All she needed was about as much faith as any theist on the planet has in real life.
Homura's wish wasn't "Let Madoka sacrifice herself for the world, yet fucking again", her wish was "Save Madoka". Even if it has to be saving her from herself it's still her wish, she'll save her and give her a normal life at last.
To think the series was a good ending for Homura and that she "saved" Madoka is the same as thinking she saved Madoka in every world-line up to that point as well. In the end the result was still the exact damn same, she just sacrificed herself to save others, and that's not what Homura wanted.
Madoka is a saint, if she's going to be angry with someone is going to be with herself for letting this happen, although that doesn't mean she will not feel hurt and betrayed for what Homura did.
Just like Sayaka felt hurt and betrayed when Madoka chucked her Soul Gem onto the freeway.
Nobody going to give me a reason why this is liked?
>her happiness was assured.
Except that the incubators were just waiting for a chance to capture Madokami and let magical girls go witch again.
No, fuck off.
Sayaka is just a bitch, you can't expect sanctity from her.
Her damn fault in the first place.
But what about what poor Madoka wants?
Need to examine this bizarre specimen and see what makes them tick
Yes, this is what I'm saying.
Scene in flower field is there to confirm Madoka's final sacrifice. Madoka doesn't want to become god if everything is right with the world.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but didn't QB said that Homura's story confirmed what the incubators were thinking already?
I want to beat the shit out of Sayaka.
>homura fucks up by telling qb about witches and madoka
>she ends up making things even better than they were before
Guys, do any of you remember that Homura ended on the note of, "Well, Madoka didn't actually change much. The world is still garbage. But, since she tried to protect it, I'll fight." ?
She's fighting. She did what Madoka couldn't and tamed the incubators, and intends to use them to deal with the curses of humanity. Not only that, but she's kept the system Madoka sacrificed herself for while undoing the sacrifice itself.
I only hope those who think otherwise have the open-mindedness to at least consider the notion.
Homura taking absolute power and making the universe a better place isn't the problem. Homura tearing Madoka apart without her consent is.
Sometimes you gotta be selfish to get what you want, and at this point in order to reach that happy ending they've gotta find some compromise which currently seems impossible. Madoka wants to sacrifice herself for others and help people, Homura wants Madoka not to sacrifice and to live a normal life, and unless all conditions are met neither will really be happy in the end. After all there's an incompatibility going on with the duality of selfishness and selflessness at the end as both girls represent one and the other. Homura will go against the world to save one person, and Madoka will give herself to the world to save as many as she can, in the end those ideals are in conflict but neither is truly wrong.
>Q: If you could be reincarnated, what would you want to be?
>Madoka: I would want to be Mom and Dad's daughter again!
Neither of those things are confirmed, you know
Who the hell cares what Madoka wants? She'll sell her soul to save a fucking cat, let her stay in her golden cage it's where she belongs.
>not caring about animals
Watch that edge, son. You'll cut someone.
Go away, Homura, you're an awful friend.
It's okay. Madoka will tear Homura apart is S2.
>No watchable version of Rebellion for months
I still haven't seen it. I'm not going to watch a cam rip with horrible broken-English subs.
>Uses Kyubey to purify mankind of curses, freeing magical girls from their burden and making life a better place for everyone on Earth
>Incubators more than reach their quota after consuming the entirety of the planet's curses
>Madoka, Sayaka, and Nagisa are all reborn as humans and can live fulfilling lives with the people they cherish.
>Everyone can go into heaven together after their lives are spent, smiling and happy rather than sacrifices for a system
>"B-But Madoka didn't give her consent!"
If Madokami ACTUALLY had foresight she would've seen how grand the scope of Homura's mission is and she would've been like, "tear that shit up and feed it through a paper shredder"
How is Homura an awful friend?
They were curious to why soul gems disappear upon total impurity. So maybe they'd do the isolation devices eventually, but they didn't seem to know the energy advantage that came from witches.
If someone wanted to make a pmmm fan game, what sort of game would you actually want it to be?
Between waiting for Rebellion BDs, the next monogatari series, and kizu SHAFT is making me go insane. Are they always like this?
Homura a shit. She enslaved the innocent Incubators for the sake of her crush on Madoka. I hope QB finds a way to put her back in her place. The ingrate should be happy they gave her any power in the first place.
>Neither of those things are confirmed
Anon, you know they made a sequel to the series, right? It's called Rebellion, you should watch it.
Yeah. Shaft is literally saving anime. Don't listen to those Yamakan faggots.
Dark Souls style with customizable megucas, weapons, skills and gigantic labyrinths.
Funny how "love conquers all" was confirmed for bullshit when it was done in the tv series, but here in Rebellion it works to the T with no repercussions on the world for risking the entire universe for the sake of one person.
Would you call me a faggot if I said I was designing that
Nah they'll just scissor.
>with no repercussions on the world
>Turning the Incubators into a deposit for condensed negative emotion
Yes, until I see proof because Pandering Pentagram killed my hopes for anything except, you know, pandering.
I wanted to do something different not involving characters. It wasn't just pandering that killed that game though- the combat was stiff, along with the rest of the game.
>in Rebellion it works to the T with no repercussions on the world for risking the entire universe
Well, that happens when jews with magical technology are no in charge anymore. That and the stability of Homura's world depends on how often she hugs Madoka.
Homura used despair. The despair that would normally cause ones downfall, Homura turned into her power.
No, the pandering was fine, gameplay sucks dicks. Dynasty Warriors is more fun than that.
>I wanted to do something different not involving characters
>A race that offers completely fair and reasonable trade agreements that preserve the entire universe at the cost of a few lives
I'm not following
Well, not involving the canon characters- much like how they have other manga writers and artists make a spin-off. Since I wanted the player to make their own meguca, I figured I'd use a different setting (that is still in Japan) and a different set of characters.
The game would also have a focus on magical girl territories. I feel that isn't brought up enough imo
>No, the pandering was fine
No, it was shit. If they wanted to pander, at least fucking do it right. Fucking faggots can't appeal to yurifags and wafufags forever. They should stop trying to play both sides and either make them do unquestionably gay shit, or just disregard yuri altogether.
You seem to have accidentally posted Homura. Let me fix that.
Bait and switch pandering is literally the worst and it just ruins the characters in that story's incarnation. And if they do yuri pandering, it just shouldn't be OOC as fuck
>Withhold information for the sake of energy conversion.
That would be nice, but are we talking about videogame or pen and paper rpg. Frankly, any of them would be fun.
Is Madoka Magica worth watching? I see threads like this all the time and I don't want to start watching and get addicted to the show.
I guess I count among the hetrofag/waifufag/friendfag group because its fucking cringe inducing to see Sayaka blow off Madoka just because you put your points into a Saya/Homu relationship.
I mean if they wanted to do it right they could have bonded over their shared protective feelings for Madoka or something more subtle.
>Comparing: A) a childhood 'eros' crush that wouldn't have worked out, didn't, and both Sayaka moved on from. B) a beautiful 'agape' love where Homura fell in love with Madoka because she was such a beautiful person and devoted herself to protecting Madoka, and later fighting for the world she sought to save.
Reminder that Sayaka wanted to be the one who granted Kyousuke's wish.
Also, Homura isn't an example of 'love conquers all', she's an example of Nietzschean transformation.
Pandering doesn't give a shit about staying in character. Did you see some of the shit in Pandering Pentagram?
I was hoping for videogame and that's what I designed it for. Though, I can only draw kind of and do the design of the gameplay- don't know how to work a game engine or 3d model (yet, if i have the time.)
And I also don't know if the publisher would be okay with this ahha
Please don't use Mami-san to start waifu wars.
That won't happen because Japan is a country of pussies. They won't go for canon romantic relationship between Homura and Madoka because that goes against what their society thinks.
>Skipping irrelevant information
It's not like a bunch of emotional girls are going to understand it or that he wouldn't explain if they asked. It's their fault for not asking for the details and fine print before they agree.
That's what they have been from the beginning. Have you seen the show? It's a pretty good watch--I recommend it.
I have no interest in waifu wars. I'm only enforcing the No Homus Club rules.
DotA style game
They disposed of the empty artifacts. Homura's just dumping the grief and taint straight into QB, now.
I meant Madoka and Kyoko trying to bring Sayaka back from Oktavia.
Agreed. But you faggots are going to keep eating it up so it doesn't really matter how right you are.
You both should die.
>they should cut half of their market and pander only to me!
No, that's retarded, at least Pentagram does something right and pander to everyone, I wouldn't mind if they keep doing the same thing while they make sure to pander to all.
How would you divide the "good" vs "evil" sides?
>Walpurgisnacht as the Roshan that floats through the map and wrecks whatever hero it passes
Make a few witches as playable heroes!
You take what you can.
In this case, by pandering to one group, they fail to pander to the other. Yurifags want them to kiss and aren't satisfied with this hugging shit. Waifufags don't want any gay shit at all.
Ophelia best witch.
Too bad, actual programing is the hardest thing. Though RPG maker is still a thing.
>filled with the grief of magical girls
Do you seriously not understand how energy collection works? Kyubey explains it nice and slow for you in episode 6, go and check it out
would she play like gemini from hon
>implying dick is priority
I just don't like lesbian shit because it breaks up the group dynamic by saying "if all four were in trouble Sayaka would save Kyoko first because fuck buddy, maybe second because Madoka is her childhood friend and generally weak."
Plus for fuck sake you start a series with them gossiping about boys and being regular hetero girls and by the end everyone one of them is paired off with their Yuri OTP
Ophelia is not that tiny.
They don't have to. Let both sides pick from the same pool of heroes.
>Plus for fuck sake you start a series with them gossiping about boys and being regular hetero girls and by the end everyone one of them is paired off with their Yuri OTP
It's worse than fujoshis pairing up blatantly and entirely hetero guys
>they looked at each other!
I know my programming basics and could probably learn through attempting to make this game. I loathe the idea of making it a turn based rpg- I am also sort of afraid of seeking out someone who would want to help with the project as well. All I can do is plan, at the moment. I might start to snag a few art students around campus to get some concept art other than my own going.
Why should Shinbo care about characterization or good writing when this shit is all the brain dead fanbase wants?
Either that, or Dota 2's Chaos Knight.
Actually the series starts with Junko telling Madoka to wear the red ribbon to look good for her secret admirers.
I think I wouldn't mind if the map allowed things like Magical Sayaka to fight against Oktavia despite that not really fitting lore wise.
Or you know just have all OC witches and Magical Girls.
Would you allow teams to have a mix of witches and Magical girls? Like how the Radiant can have Dire heroes in Dota?
Again, that cup of tea is damn too tiny.
Or maybe Oktavia isn't that big.
>Implying we can't get good storytelling AND lesbians.
Granted, it wouldn't be easy.
>Plus for fuck sake you start a series with them gossiping about boys and being regular hetero girls and by the end everyone one of them is paired off with their Yuri OTP
That only applies to Sayaka, all the other girls, except for Homura, are quite neutral, not that yurifags care about that.
Think of it like an emergency cup of tea to-go for the Magical Girl that has to be on the move.
I'd say it could be fine to have oktavia and sayaka be on the map at the same time- mobas don't always keep the canon anyway.
Mixing it would be all cool and limiting that would limit the fun
I'd love to contribute. Unfortunately I don't know a lot outside of programming either. Most of my work is with lwjgl.
Madoka does say she wishes she could get a confession letter at least once, their is no gender specific pronoun from Madoka but the conversation was about boys with Sayaka even playfully saying she wasn't going to let her become popular with boys because she's hers.
No, at this point a good story and fulfilling you stupid fetish is impossible.
Also if this was an actual meguca dota, there would be some OC if they wanted to release more heroes
I'd like to talk about it more with you, do you have like an email or messenger? Unless, of course, we could never bring this up again.
Since we're discussing Meguca moba I'll dump these.
>not the cancer killing RTS
So obviously creeps for the witch side would be familiars.
What would be the creeps for the Magical Girl team?
It's fine with me.
Also that's DotA 2, the original uses Sentinel and Scourge.
The bigger problems are what structures the girls/witches will be attacking for the winning condition, and what the towers will be.
Mix and matching could work. Just add an extra mode or option to limit them if there are too many OCD people.
Not sure how something like Oktavia would play out, though.
>Not dead with Westwood
You wouldn't know a good story if it hit you in the face. You philistines bitch about this shit consistently but when Rebellion delivers a story that is not only viscerally entertaining and moving, but overflowing with symbolism and references to the classical literature that inspired its plot, all you do is bitch about the lesbians.
You have your anti-/u/ dick crammed up your own ass so hard you can't even see the literary significance of the story through your bitch tears.
You do know that another term for MOBA is Action RTS, right?
Sayaka also says that Madoka and Homura are "destined people" or something like that, all the girls are ambiguous with the exception of Sayaka and Homura.
I have a Skype/TorChat. Take your pick.
An entire army of Kyubeys.
Think of all those fucking wheels that could be shot at you (as a skill shot of course)
That's the idea, yeah.
Skype would be preferable.
mine is "detinor" if you search for it. got a grumpy ass icon
>the ubermensch breaks societies norms, gets what she wants and nothing bad happens as a result
Thrilling story my nihilist brother!
Wait, do you mean it's a cancer that's killing RTS, or it's an RTS that's cancer-killing?
Captcha: gleste science
So who's buying us 17.5 4chan passes?
Maybe a cross between Naga Siren and Earth Spirit. At least in terms of wheels being like ES's OP boulders.
The first one? I think?
There's so much wrong with this post, that I'll just tell you to kill yourself instead of pointing out how stupid it is. Kill yourself.
I would guess for the Magical Girls their ancient would be a major city center. For the witches, maybe create an OC witch like Walspurgis that converted an entire city into its barrier, with the power to dominate weaker witches to fight for it.
>Shit, I don't know how to refute him
>I know, I'll tell him to kill himself, that always works.
Nope, no Homus here. Only cake.
Is Homu the cake?
No she's a gourd
>I could write a fucking essay tearing this faggot a new one
>but I rather just tell him to kill himself because I don't feel like arguing with stupid yurifags
and towers could be the outskirts of the city and witch towers would be the a building that's been converted into a barrier.
Maybe the tower damage for the magical girl side could be faceless magical girls who do their best to defend the 'tower' for the hero magical girls by shooting beams at the witches and familiars?
Nice save, I could almost believe it.
Whatever helps you sleep, kiddo.
That's close enough to squash. I suppose there's nothing wrong with pumpkin pie as a side dish.
That's only one lens of many you can use to look at the kaleidoscope that is Rebellion.
You can also look at Homura as Marlowe's Faustus, or as Tchaikovsky's Clara, or even as his Nutcracker. You can see her as a tragic figure like Jack from the Jack o'Lantern origin story. You can see her as a continuation of the stoic, long-haired beauty archetype yuri has propagated with works like Kannazuki no Miko. Hey, you can even see her as pragmatic. Oh yes, you can certainly see Nietzsche's will to power within her.
You're only doing yourself a disservice by viewing Rebellion in such a pessimistic, ressentimental spectrum.
>Guy points out how there's more to the story than yuri
>"I don't feel like arguing with stupid yurifags"
Or you can look at the story for what it is instead of comparing it to other stories.
Pumpkin pies don't even use real pumpkin, they use Old Spice deodorant.
Nothing exists in a vacuum. You can't define what something "is" without something to compare it to.
Nigga, Rebellion has so much shit wrong that I would take hours trying to explain it to you, and I'm not even talking about lesbians or fanservice, plus I have to explain not only why Rebellion is shit but also why is shit in comparison with the series, too much work to try to change the opinion of a pleb with shit taste.
So in short: Kill yourself.
Why her Vag00 bloody?
Will there ever be a sequel to Rebellion? I personally enjoyed it and just hate the way it ended and want the story to continue.
That's not really true at all. A story can be judged in isolation.
You say that like Old Spice is a bad thing.
So we've settled the heroes for the sides, the towers, the base... we'll still need the minions.
Anything else I missed out?
Which Clara would you doll?
>Using my brain is hard so I shut it off and only look at the visceral components of a story
Are you 15 years old, or did you flunk out of school before they got around to feeding you classic authors like Steinbeck, Orwell, Golding, Camus, Vonnegut, and Conrad?
Just finished the series, watched it twice in a row, loved it.
Should I watch Rebellion or will it fuck my mental image of it? Is it on good quality somewhere or only the camrip?
Posting best girl.
Except the viewer is judging it based on everything they've experienced in their lifetime, which in your case apparently isn't much.
I don't understand that, either, Clara Dolls are supposed to be negative emotions, how is "stupid looking" a negative emotion?
I would give Neglect the tender loving care she deserves.
>You're only doing yourself a disservice by viewing Rebellion in such a pessimistic, ressentimental spectrum.
No kidding, unlike those who praise Homura's actions and want this to be the official end I have to wait 5-10 years for a sequel that may never happen to see if they'll be willing to provide consequences for Homura showing once again that "Madoka is more important than every other life in the universe, no matter how nice or kind other people are to me they'll never match Madoka ever."
>Should I watch Rebellion or will it fuck my mental image of it? Is it on good quality somewhere or only the camrip?
Yes, yes, only camrip (BD is out on April 2)
The end of the movie basically fix everything that was bad/horrible/out of character moments in the serie's ending. I disliked the serie because of ep 11 and 12 which more or less ruined everything,but after the 3rd movie it became one of my favorite anime.
She's vanity or something, isn't she? Or was that another one?
That depends, do you find ep. 12 to be a happy end?
Go watch the sequel movie in order to understand properly "Homura did nothing wrong", because Kyuubey certainly gets fucked over there, but you'll also see the more selfish side of Homura as she makes a choice that's very splitting among the fandom in order to make her dreams come true. Objectively her choice could be correct, but at the same time it won't last.
how is Homura supposed to be selfish in the movie? The movie confirmed tht Madoka never wanted to "die" in the first place, and that's why she do what she do in the ending, because she realized that she was wong when she thought that "dying" was something that Madoka wanted and not something she felt she had to do.
There are some incredible BGM but at the same time I feel like some of them don't really fit as well in as they should
Is another doll, I don't know how vanity and stupid looking can exist at the same time though.
No, it's nothing like that at all. There's simply no need for drawing comparisons when looking at a story.
My bad, here Yakimochi(Jealously) for you.
Yes. They will all meet in the afterlife, don't they?
>all this shit taste
The serie shove these comparisons down your throat by itself ll the time if you know them though.
The wiki went with "Fool" apparently, but that translation would break the comic
She can have my love.
Where would these opinions even come from if it wasn't for someone experiencing other things first to establish whatever standards there were
There is also Dunce(Noroma), which doesn't seem fixable too.
Just because she doesn't want it doesn't mean she doesn't want it. It was a betrayal of trust.
>Madoka is more important than every other life in the universe
>Retains the system Madoka sacrificed herself for without Madoka actually having to sacrifice herself
>Does what Madoka couldn't by putting a leash on the incubators and using them to purify the world of curses rather than stand by as they sacrifice humans as utilitarian fuel for the furnace of the universe.
>Gives Madoka the happy life with her precious family that she wanted
>Gives Kyouko and Sayaka that mirthful, playful future they dreamed of in And I'm Home
>Ensures that Mami and Nagisa won't be left alone like they were in their past lives
We share the same view anon. It made me all nostalgic toward the first time I saw the series end...
Rebellion will destroy that ending for you.
I would still recommend you watch it, visually and musically it's beautiful. The action is good and it certainly leaves you in a constant state of asking questions. Besides like it or not Rebellion is the follow up to the story, no matter how much the writers want to pass this idea that "The movies aren't tied to the tv series."
All while ominous, "this isn't right" music plays in the background
Because she's not static, she's a complicated, human character. Are you saying that someone who has ever felt vanity or pride in their life will never know the feeling of self-doubt and inferiority? These are not mutually exclusive things.
>trying this hard
What is this blasphemy?
They'll all meet in the afterlife after Rebellion, too. Except this time the girls can live happy lives instead of dying before they even finish puberty.
Not really? Even when Homura proclaims her AI YO, music is very positive, similar to Sagitta luminis.
Sayaka and Mami are both still magical girls, living in a wraith system that killed Sayaka in Madoka's universe. Though the theory is Homura will probably have her familiars help them out so they never die fighting wraiths.
>Though the theory is Homura will probably have her familiars help them out so they never die fighting wraiths.
And all it took was Homura once again taking away all decision making and responsibility away from Madoka.
But hey the series shows that Madoka is too self-sacrificing to the point that she cannot have a say in how she lives her own life without ruining everything. Maybe Rebellion is right and a cage is where Madoka belongs.
So Madoka never has a reason to ever become a magical girl.
>Sayaka died! I must make a wish and revive her.
Same with Mami.
Rebellion is more subtle about this but that's more or less the point yes. Madoka doesn't give a damn about her own happiness, which is a really bad thing in the first place. In a "sane" mindset, you're supposed to find a balance between the two, and not consider yourself as expandable and the only thing that soen't deserve to be happy.
What awful translation of the song are you quoting?
It's "still no good", as in, "The night is still half-eaten." Homura isn't done. Weren't you listening when she told Kyubey she needed him to fight the wraiths that spread curses among mankind?
What is with these anti-Madoka anons? When you say things like this everyone gets upset with Homufags. Homura thinks that Madoka deserves mortal happiness, is all. Why is that a big deal? If Homura's plan succeed and Madoka ekes out a peaceful existence, she's just going to return to her godliness afterward. (Cue "Oh no, she's getting the best of both worlds! Homura is a monster!!")
-We don't know what the state of the law of cycles
-QB continues to do business as usual, Homura didn't change anything
-All the girls, except Madoka, are still condemned to a life of fight just to survive and can die at any time
Homura only made a better world for Madoka, everything else remained the same.
We can't be sure about this right now though. Just look at how Homura suppressed Sayaka's powers and memory at the end. (then again, it is SUPPOSED to be an open ending)
All the girls have rings.
Uh. Homua basically enslaved Kyuubey. nd an happy world for Madoka is a world where everyone is happy.
Everyone's memories are getting tinkered with, although I'm not really sure what's going on with the Oktavia thing, whether that was just a one-time thing or she was actually stripped of it. Probably the latter as keeping it around would be a bit overpowering
Being Madokami is Madoka happiness, what the fuck are you talking about.
>We don't know the state of the law of cycles
Except we do, when it's told to us what the state of the law of cycles is.
>QB continues to do business as usual
Did you watch Rebellion? You had to have, so I guess you just passed out before AI YO? Rewatch the scene where Kyubey speaks to Homura as she rewrites the universe.
>All the girls, except Madoka, are still condemned to a life of fight just to survive and can die at any time
And this happen RIGHT at the end. Homura says that Sayaka will lose her memory over time. Do the maths. I don't say that you are wrong, but the two are possible.
What I'm talking about? Look at the movie again. The scene in the garden between Homura and Madoka.
Because she stole suffering from everyone
The one where Madoka currently doesn't remember being a god or any of the suffering that led up to her making the choice she did
What? The amnesic Madoka who doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about? Yeah, solid proof, faggot.
Exactly. If there is no suffering, she doesn't want to become a god.
She is happy because of what her wish did for others, not happy that she's separated from her friends and family and will never get to live a normal life where she can grow up, fall in love, go out drinking with her mother, graduate from school, find a dream and goals for herself, etc.
Homura did nothing to her wish to protect magical girls from the despair that causes them to curse mankind, while giving her that happy human life.
Yes anon a Madoka who knows nothing about suffering would have no reason to leave her friends and family. Just like a Siddhartha who knows no suffering would never want to leave his palace and become the Buddha.
Homura's logic if flawed that Madoka was forced to become a goddess. The truth was she simply achieved enlightenment on the situation and felt the sacrifice was worthy enough to lose the memory of her friends and family-save for Homura.
You say that as if Madoka living a human life prevents her from ever becoming enlightened. Time and time again anons ignore one crucial point--Madoka can just live a happy life and return to her seat of power afterward.
No homus... so one homu is allowed right?
And you are basing this on absolutely nothing, not to mention that Homura will never agree with that, she probably would force Madoka to revive her mortal life again and again that allow her to join with the law of cycles again.
You are vastly over the Homu quota.
She wasn't in Homura's soul gem when the isolation field was erected and she didn't have the foresight to see the future, confirming your picture as an example of Madoka using hyperbole to be poetic and hopeful.
Even assuming the best case scenario you've put forth, she had already reached that point before.
What Homura has done amounts to nothing more than pure meddling.
It's not like she live all her life just to sacrifice like that.
She just want to be useful for the others and of course, she will be happier if she is useful and can stay with her friend and family too.
Rebellion is bad because it gives more fulfilling ending and Madoka don't have to sacrifice anymore.
From a writing standpoint that kind of ending sounds worse than the original idea of just ending with Homura being purified and sent to Madoka's heaven. (though at least that ending would fit with the original series concluding feelings.)
I can see it now.
>Madoka gets to live to die an old woman
>dies with Homura by her side
>soul retains a youthful figure and becomes a goddess again
>Madokami thanks Homura for what she did and for giving her those 80 years of life to cherish
>they both go off as goddesses; Homura doesn't even have to apologies because once again she knew better than Madoka
>no conflict, Homura was right blah blah blah
No, anon, that is called a plothole, please ignore it.
Meddling that is entirely within her right.
Unless mankind somehow develops FTL technology within Madoka's lifetime, she's never going to see the boundaries of her so-called 'cage'. They may as well not exist.
>I'm right, please ignore all evidence to the contrary!
>I will always be with everyone, even if no one can see/hear/remember me
Who is she trying to fool?
>Do your best
If Homura is in fact an "equal being" to Madoka then it isn't terribly far-fetched that even as a goddess, Madoka might not have been able to see it coming.
Or perhaps she did see but could do nothing (or chose to do nothing) about the chain of events that would follow. It's all up in the air, really.
>Homura will never agree with that, she probably would force Madoka to revive her mortal life again and again that allow her to join with the law of cycles again. And I am basing this on absolutely nothing.
FTFY. Also I based my specula on the fact that Madoka is still connected to the Law of Cycles. It's shown in the movie you've supposedly watched.
For that was the "probably", faggot.
And Homura said they would become enemies, suggesting that she not agree with Madoka joining the Law of Cycles.
Dr. Manhattan theory is pretty solid and I have no counter for it.
>"I did the right thing, didn't I? It all worked out in the end."
>"In the end? Mada dame yo, Homura. Mada dame yo."
Sorry, couldn't resist the jab. I agree with you actually. Homura as a Luciferean figure embraces sin and desires and puts no stock in enlightenment or other godly virtues. Looking at her as Nietzschean only reinforces this, because she embodies his works and values of: a) not only accepting one's own pain and suffering, but being glad for it and using it to one's advantage; b) discounting God as a concept.
So, that said, it only makes sense that she would also embrace Nietzsche's concept of Eternal Recurrence (the salamander, a symbol of rebirth like the phoenix, can be seen as denoting this) and want the girls to relive their lives over and over. (Considering this, it's possible that Yuru Yuri takes place in megucaverse.)
>Rebellion is bad because it gives more fulfilling ending and Madoka don't have to sacrifice anymore.
This at the end of the day is the real problem, Homura's world is better for all 6 of them and from face value not any worse than Madoka's universe, but it doesn't feel earned if Madoka's system that she made a sacrifice to uphold can remain standing strong without Madoka doing anything.
Homura has her cake and eats it and its to the point where you look at Madoka and just think her wording was stupid. She should of just made the wish and forgot about the "I want to do this by my own hands" part, apparently she wasn't needed to actually have the Law of Cycles work.
>She should of just made the wish and forgot about the "I want to do this by my own hands" part, apparently she wasn't needed to actually have the Law of Cycles work.
You could say that now after what Homura's already done to alter things further, but, there's no guarantee if she had done that in the first place that things would have turned out the way they did.
I dunno about that. Madoka didn't rewrite the laws of the universe with her wish, but rather her wish turned her into someone who could. I doubt she could've done what she did without factoring in her immense potential as a magical girl.
Ok I'll level if you're still here.
I don't know why it bothers me that Homura meddled but not Madoka.
I mean thinking about it, Madoka did something nearly equal to Homura tearing Madokami in half. Homura was dying with no way to even physically get up and Madoka made her decision to make a wish, pretty much keeping her personal mission out of the equation for the betterment of magical girls throughout time.
Maybe its because Madoka sacrifices for the macrocosm of Magical Girls, while Homura does everything and manipulated the universe solely for one person?
Isn't love a godly virtue? I guess love and desire are connected in some way, but I can't agree that it's all sin and nothing divine. Although what's divine and what's sin are probably completely different depending on where you're coming from.
>She should of just made the wish and forgot about the "I want to do this by my own hands" part
I think she needed to do that to kill her own witch and actually reform the universe towards a new truth. Perhaps after her personalized implementation, she might not need to direct it.
There still might be some use to being in that position, since Madoka can still reawaken Madokami, but it's not really clear.
Yes. In other words, it wasn't a choice. She did it because she thought she had to. Homura says it EXACTLY just afterward. which is why she doesn't do it out of selfishness, but because she wanted Madoka to be free and to have the happiness she wants, not the one forced on her.
>YOU MUST BE HAPPY IN MY TERMS, NOT YOURS! FUCK YOU!
Are you even trying? How is being forced by Kyuubey's shit any better than what Homua did? And nope. Once again, Madoka's true wish was to live happy with her family and NOT LEAVE ANYONE. She says that many times. Homura just freed her of the reason she had to sacrifice herself because she thinks she's some kind of messiah, WHICH WASN'T COMPATIBLE WITH WHAT MADOKA REALLY WANTED. Sure, the movie does everything it can to mke Homura look like some kind of evil overlord at the end, but if you skip what Madoka wanted at the beginning before she was FORCED to sacrifice herself to save everyone else, you miss the whole point of Homura and Madok's scene.
>Forcing anyone to do anything
>Anonymous 01/28/14(Tue)11:03 UTC+1 No.101077724
>File: 1390903386842.gif-(67 KB, 350x343, 1336962880637.gif)
>>Forcing anyone to do anything
Sure, it's not like everyone she loves would die and Walpurgisnight would hve killed everyone if she didn't do anything.
Homura please go, Madoka was not forced to do anything she didn't want to and she was happy to do so.
How hard did yo just fuck up?
He's still not forcing anyone to do anything. It's not like he made the Witch appear or did it against her will. Madoka could've easily just said no and let everyone die.
That's like blaming Kyubey for Mami's car crash or blaming him for Kyouko wanting her dad to be heard.
>I'm not guilty, I just withhold crucial details that I know would make people reconsider my offer
Fuck off Qb.
She was forced to. When you look t Madoka's moral code, it was the only thing she could do. Because she have way too much of messiah complex to think bout herself in the slightest. Are you saying that if the whole magical girl business didn't happen, she would hve done it anyway, just for fun? Her rel view of happiness was to NEVER HAVE TO LEAVE HER FRIENDS/FAMILY. Which was impossible because of was Kyuubey did. So yeh. She didn't have a choice, it was the lesser of the two evils for her so of course she was okay with it.
>Withholding irrelevant information makes Kyubey guilty of another person's thoughts and decisions
What would change if he told her the full story about an extremely powerful Witch about to show up and kill everyone she loves? She would make the same decision. Kyubey is not at fault for the emotional shortcomings of a girl with a martyr complex.
Your own fault for making wrong decision in a situation with incomplete information. Kyubey is not responsible for your lack of intelligence.
Let's make it clear, its a sacrifice which means it does have a cost toward the person. I'm sure if Jesus wasn't ordered by God to die for mankind then he'd be more happy just being with his Apostles than dying on a cross. The same deal is with Madoka, she would have been happy just with her family and friends, but she learned of a wide spread problem of magical girls and witches and gracefully accepted the burden of fixing this system. When she made the wish I'm sure she thought of her family and friends but felt it was for a greater cause that she leave them.
Kyuubey still caused everything and without it it wouldn't have happened. She was forced by the consequences. And please.
>> Madoka could've easily just said no and let everyone die.
Which is why I said that it was the lesser of the two evils. But with the whole witch business, "being happy with her familyn her friends nd everyone else", her first wish just wasn't possible anymore. Hence her being happy with her choice; Because that's the next best thing to do. If everyone cannot be hppy WITH her, so everyone should be happy WITHOUT her. It doesn't change the fact that she didn't sacrifice herself just for teh lulz.
Qb gives a half-baked story. He tells them all the nice things that he knows they want to hear, but leaves out the details that he knows would evoke a negative reaction. Qb is not impartial, he is not innocent. He's a manipulator, a con-artist, and a thief.
"Forced" implies coercion by a third party, which was clearly not the case here. Madoka had plenty of opportunity to simply let go but she herself chose to not do so.
>She was forced by the consequences.
This isn't a thing.
Madoka is not a machine with one function nor was she forced into making a decision one way or another. The Witch was going to appear on its own. It was in Madoka's nature to act selflessly for others. Kyubey did the rational thing which would benefit both him and Madoka. She could save the town and he would get the energy from it.
Madoka could have made a lot of decisions. She had free will to ask questions. She could have gotten a more full picture and Kyubey would have explained it if asked. She even could have decided not to save anyone. Her decision was entirely her own. Kyubey never once forced her to become a magical girl against her will, which he easily could have done from the beginning, and he never threatened or lied to convince her to do otherwise.
>He's a manipulator, a con-artist, and a thief.
Homura, go to bed. You're telling crazy stories again. Kyubey provides information when asked. It is not his fault the girls are too impatient, slow, or naive to think about asking questions before they sign the contract.
That's what they both do, anon. Starting to see the bigger picture?
Homura did mention Walpurgis was heading to the community center. If Madoka did nothing eventually she would have died along with Homura and those who took shelter.
She was still forced by the "world", or rather the situation, Kyuubey created by doing this. The point her isn't about Kyuubey being the culprit. It's about her not having the choice to pursue her old dream anymore. So yeah, she was forced by the circumstances. It's not about finding culprit, it's about understanding why she changed between the originl Madoka and Madokami.
He is not obligated to tell them everything. He is nice enough to explain some parts of what is going on, when he doesn't have to.
People expecting him to disclose all of his knowledge are wrong.
No really, Madoka only learned of the situation of Homura after she made her wish and had no more options.
She could have wished just to save her ass instead of all magical girls forever throughout time and space instead
When it's the best possibility you have, you go with it. It doesn't change the fact that she was still forced to do it by what happened. Seriously, it looks like for you Madoka saying what happiness is for her in the movie was just a filler. When it is the basis for the whole end of the movie.
Kyubey is not responsible for this situation at all. He didn't force anyone to make contracts, and he didn't force them to become witches.
>her old dream
She just wanted to find some purpose. It could have been anything. She wasn't very specific about it before.
There were a million other things she could have done instead of making the wish she did, but she did not do those things and fuuuuuck you for implying otherwise.
>Kyubey provides information when asked.
He wasn't asked to offer a contract. He wasn't asked to explain his role in the development of humanity to Madoka. He's asserts information that is beneficial to him and withholds information that is not. Everything he does is not based on inquiry, leaving him impartial. He's selective and withholds information because of his bias. Which is fine. Just don't pretend he's impartial. He's not.
Yeah, he just opportunistically manipulates them into becoming magical girls and then into witches.
..... Are you fucking reading me? I said that it isn't about finding a culprit, it is bout understanding why she did it. It was the next best thing to do, because ccording to her moral code, she didn't have a choice. I'm pretty sure she would have liked living with her friends, without witches, AND with all magical girls happy a lot more than disappearing.
That Madoka literally had no idea what she was talking about.
>she didn't have a choice
It was the natural choice for her. It was still a choice. She was not forced. Stop trying to force forced.
This is a good point toward Madoka legitimately being happy with her wish. Even with the story about humans being cattle for Incubators, she didn't have an obligation to make a wish that would save them all. She could have behaved like Homura does constantly and just make a wish that benefited herself and her friends.
And you are conveniently skipping the climax of the movie because it contradicts you. Why didn't she say that "having a purpose" is happiness for her at this moment then? Then it would make sense. But she didn't say it.
It doesn't matter what the situation was. Kyubey was taking advantage of the situation for the mutual benefit of himself and Madoka. He wasn't guilty of anything. If he didn't offer her a contract, then she would have died anyway when the Witch materialized. She was encouraged by the situation to accept the contract he proposed, but she wasn't forced.
Kyubey could have used force, but he didn't. He never made her a Magical Girl against her will, he never lied to her, he never deceived her half truths don't count and he always gave her the final say in her decision.
You are saying Kyubey either created the Witch and unleashed it on the city, forced her to do it against her will, or threatened her into doing it. He never did any of these.
He gives half-information, but I can't recall him ever outright lying. He's obviously biased towards getting energy out of each investment, but that's part of his job. He doesn't force anyone to do anything. He's not guilty of anything except helping the universe.
I really hate how Homurafags try to put all the blame on Madoka and discards everything she did just to justify the horrible thing that Homura did.
>no more options
Except Homura gave her other options. That's what Rebellion accomplishes. Both girls have fully realized their character development.
Nope. She wanted all magicl girls to be happy, and it is implied that it wasn't possible, at least by the time of the serie, to do it in another way. Even in the serie, she only had the "power" to do it because of all off Homura's loops. What are the "millions of other things" she could have done that would have saved everyone AND would have rescuing magical girls from their fate?
>He's not guilty of anything
But manipulating naive adolescents for his agenda.
>remove the free-will of Madoka is giving Madoka more "options"
>Madoka did nothing wrong!
The one thing that could be considered outright lying is saying that the magical girl to witch to energy thing was for ultimately for humanities benefit when he was happy to let Earth be destroyed by Madoka as a witch when his energy quota was fulfilled in a previous timeline. Still, he does say this in different timelines.
It doesn't really matter though, since he twists the truth so selectively that it basically has the same effect as lying.
>She wanted this
Thank you. That's all you needed to say. Madoka was never "forced" into anything, she did it of her own will and no one else's.
you're going into a low-level philosophical debate here. You always have the choice for absolutely everything in life. Except being born and dying. Ultimately, you re free to do everything, even things that are against the law, if you want to.
But there are still a lot of things you wouldn't do otherwise that you are forced to do depending of the situation. When someone die, for example. She was forced to give up on what happiness initially was for her, and to deal with it, by how the world worked now becuse it was not compatible. That's still being forced to since she didn't have way to get what she wanted at first..
Have you read this thread at all? It addresses both the fallacies you've just made.
>us vs. them mentality assumes all Homufags are the same
>implying anything Madoka did besides sacrificing her right to a happy life has been discarded
You can choose to die. You can't choose to never die, I suppose.
>Removing free will
It's like you didn't even watch the film. Here's a hint: Search "Rebellion Homusubs" on nyaa.se
Next you will be calling universe a cage.
Madoka not being a god doesn't make her lose her free will.
Are you even reading? I've said at least two times that it's not a matter of "he's at fault". But the world he created made what Madoka wanted in Rebellion impossible. That's it. Santa claus could have done it in any way instead of Kyuubey, it wouldn't change anything.
How is it Kyubey's fault that the girls are too stupid to ever take a minute to have a Q&A with him? He fully explained the situation over time to Madoka even when he didn't need to, while still desperately wanting her to make a contract. The other girls could have had the patience to think about it instead of just assuming it's a burden-free arrangement. Not reading the fine print is their fault, not his. It comes with all legal soul binding agreements.
Those are two different timelines, like you said, and ultimately it WAS for humanity's benefit. Whether or not humanity would survive to reach that benefit was not something he promised or elaborated upon. He was running under the supposition that humanity would survive and have a universe to expand into.
Does this look like the face of a liar to you? He states what is necessary and in the context of what is asked of him. If Madoka didn't want to destroy humanity as a witch, then she could have just not made the contract. It's simple.
>blaming Madoka for anything
>discarding everything she did
How can these people be Homura fags? These are Kyubey fags.
If your friend wants to commit suicide, is it right or wrong to allow it to happen?
Yeah, that's what I meant. "To day someday". I probably worded it wrong.
She could have chosen to just move on.
Get your stories straight please.
Since our argument began with >>101077724 I can't say we're on the same page anymore. It's not about fault, it's about force. Kyubey never forced anyone to do anything and he's not guilty of the ramifications of their decisions. That's all there is to it.
You're replying to two different people.
Madoka did do nothing wrong, saying otherwise is bordering on delusion. Homura really didn't need to do what she did.
I'm not saying I don't understand why it was done. The Incubators were looking for a way to control Madoka and she saw what she did as a way to save Madoka from that.
What would have been the sensible thing to do would have just to have not told Kyubey about the past and then eventually ascend to be God's wife and do mutual cosmic scissoring for eternity.
>How is it Kyubey's fault that the girls are too stupid to ever take a minute to have a Q&A with him?
It's not his fault. But he's still guilty. They're fucking 14 year old children. Be realistic.
He just fed bullshit and half truths to convince them to do what he wanted to.
No they're Homufags, showing how wrong Madoka was to make her wish proves that Homura was in the right to go against Madoka's wishes and tear her in half.
Thank you Captain Obvious. I'm saying that you Homura naysayers have a way to go if you can't even form congruent points of view.
Sayaka is straight, Kyouko forced her to be gay
That's not a problem of blaming Madoka, at least for me. She's way too selfless for her own good, but that's nothing new. It's about "Homura being a bitch who did what she did out of selfishness". It Madoka didn't say her that part about never wanting to disappear, who knows what would have happened. She wasn't really nice in her way of doing it, but this isn't selfishness at all. She wanted to grant past-Madoka's wish, the one she had to give up.
>Whether or not humanity would survive to reach that benefit was not something he promised or elaborated upon
Well, that's tricky, but I guess I'll allow it.
What Homufag is saying that? What Homura did is obviously wrong. We just value Madoka's happiness unlike you fucks.
Yes good Homufag, equate sacrificing for the good of others to suicide. That will make your queen seem justified.
Then let her be Madokami, she was happy in her work.
>What Homura did is obviously wrong.
No, it wasn't wrong in the slightest.
Which would fit even less with her view of happiness.
As I said, sacriicing herself was the "next best thing" in this context since she values others more than herself. It still doesn't mean that she had to give up everything she wanted just because magical girls appeared in her life, and that's what Homura's actions were all about.
It depends if they're in a rational or irrational state of mind when they attempt it.
You're acting like Kyubey is going out of his way to pick emotional children. It just so happens they're the best energy source and he's about efficiency. He told them what they wanted to hear and gave them not only complete freedom to decide for it or not, but even offered a payment in exchange. They were given a wish of anything they desired that they could accept or decline.
The only bullshit you could say he's responsible for is withholding information, but many times it was irrelevant or pointless. He shared knowledge with Madoka as it became relevant or necessary, but why would he bother telling someone who had already made the contract about what would happen to them? It's not a necessary detail and it only hurts them to know it ahead of time. Kyubey's half-truths are a mercy he gives to them, not a crime.
Madoka did the best thing she could, considering the circumstances. But there still was room for improvement.
Homura did the best thing she could, considering the circumstances. But there still is room for improvement.
Sayaka will follow the same pattern in s2.
No, they're Kyubey fags. Madoka's wish and what she did was the only way to save Homura while still preventing Madoka herself from becoming a witch.
Trying to invalidate what Madoka achieves is basically saying Homura should die. These are Kyubey fags, not Homura fags.
And it was her choice. No one had a gun to her head. She could have walked away, but of course she didn't walk away.
Again, it depends of how you define "forced". Being forced doesn't mean that someone physically forces her to. If you want to see a dinosaur in real life nowaday, I wish you good luck.
It was probably a correct course of action, but it was morally wrong.
>We just value Madoka's happiness
By claiming that her moment of glory and highest point of the tv series was little more than another one of her desperate wishes made on a whim that Homura has to fix. No, for once she thought it out and understood and accepted the risk. She repeatedly said she was happy with her decision and the intro to Rebellion showed that Madoka was happy with her choice, just Homura was unhappy in Madoka's world.
>but it was morally wrong.
No, it wasn't morally wrong either.
>Universe encapsulated by a labyrinth
>Memories have to be suppressed
>Homura makes herself out to be a villain
I love Homura to death, but like she said, "Still no good."
What if we all quit arguing and just had some cake and tea, hm? Wouldn't that be nice?
>Sayaka in charge of being relevant
>Homura did the best thing she could, considering the circumstances.
No, not really, she just does what she thinks is best and ignore everything else.
But, I hate cakes. They are too sweet for me.
>but many times it was irrelevant or pointless.
To him. Just accept it, qbfag. He tell them what he knows they want to hear and leaves out what he knows they don't want to hear. Qb does what has the same affect as lying to get what he wants.
I don't even know what the best thing to do now would even be. I don't think what Homura did was something that had to be done, but now that it is... now what?
Without her Homura would have been purged without even the chance to be saved.
>You're acting like Kyubey is going out of his way to pick emotional children
He did go out of his way to pick a girl dying in a car crash, a girl who was about to watch her mother die and a girl who was being yelled at by her childhood friend and crush after she was doing what she could to comfort him.
All cakes? Certainly there must be some sort of cake you like!
>Without her Homura would have been purged without even the chance to be saved.
That just wrong on so many levels.
You really need to watch your cake intake, Mami, you wouldn't want to get fat would you?
I'll eat his share if you don't mind.
Not him, but it relates perfectly. Someone dying can also help other peoples. An human life cost money, and some people give an hard time to other people just by existing. Look at some handicapped people that ARE a burden to the ones they love if you want a real life example. It doesn't give them the right of killing themselves just to "help" others. Not everywhere anyway.
And this is not a question that have an easy answer like most people here imply. There is a reason euthanasia is such a complicated problem. Is the person's freedom the only thing that count, or should other people also be taken into account?
How? Madoka had a plan and sent her and Nagisa along to accomplish it.
Getting rid of the mindcontrol and purging the wraiths.
Fucking get over yourself. There's no inherent value in being a martyr. Madoka created a fantastic system that Homura specifically did not tamper with. On top of that, Homura aims to keep fighting wraiths just like she resolved herself to in Episode 12.
"Sacrifice" this, "sacrifice" that. What about Nagisa? You think an elementary schooler who watched her mom die should be burdened with the responsibility of 'sacrificing herself for the greater good'?
Fuck that noise. If someone tells me it's wrong to value human lives, I'll tell them they're wrong every time.
This is getting boring. Again,
How was she supposed to continue with her own ideal when it wasn't possible anymore?
There is no reason to believe she didn't understood the risks in first timeline. Except for becoming a witch, but that was totally irrelevant then.
What does purging the wraiths solve? Wraiths have been around forever, they're part of the ecosystem, right?
No, without Sayaka, the other four meguca would've teamed up in Timeline 3 and beat Brazilian Night.
You could say that he picks people on some vague "potential" they appear to have, based on incubator potentiality analysis or whatever. Which is probably based off some kind of strong feeling towards something.
He only says Homura has the potential for a contract while she's grieving over Madoka's body.
So perhaps Mami very badly wanted to live, and it wasn't just some random chance. Same goes for the others I suppose.
Also another point, I don't think QB can force girls into making a contract. It's not that he's benevolent and has ethics, it's that forcing a girl simply does not work. They have to act on their own strong feelings towards something, their own strong hope to fight for.
He's not being nice or something, he's being efficient, but in an alien inhuman way.
Not him. >>101079034
But I would say that it wasn't "morally wrong" when you know the reasons, but she certainly wasn't really nice in her way of doing it. That's a fact.
Nothing morally right ever ends up with someone becoming a demon. Homura did it with the right intentions and out of her love for Madoka but at the same time that love was used to do something that was against Madoka's wishes and that visibly hurt her.
Nagisa is best girl. Sayaka was just unnecessary.
>Madoka created a fantastic system that Homura specifically did not tamper with
>remove the core of the system is not tamper with the system
OK, anon, whatever you say,
No wraiths = no need for MG's = no need for the LoC = endless MadoHomu.
None of them asked about witches before they made contracts and none of them asked about it until it became relevant. There is no point to tell them about that sort of thing because it would only hasten their decent into grief or make what life they have left miserable. He's doing them a favor by not mentioning it until it's necessary. Again, it's not his fault they didn't read or ask the fine print. It's their fault.
Like I said, it's not his fault they just happen to be what produces the most energy. Besides, in every situation he upheld his end of the deal and improved their lives. At the very least, Mami would've died with her parents. Is that the preferable alternative? It was a mutually beneficial agreement. Kyubey would target 30 year-old single men if they were what happened to produce the most energy.
>against Madoka's wishes and that visibly hurt her.
For her betterment. It's wrong in no way to hurt someone for their betterment and safety.
Well, it is not like I can't eat cakes. I only eat cakes for sake of not disappointing others. I just prefer somebody else eating my share. I hate wasting food even more after all.
Actually, I disagree with you when it comes to human lives. But that's not the problem here. To me the real problem is that everyone is trying to find a "good guy" and a "bad guy" in this situation when it clearly isn't black and white. No, Homura wasn't a bitch. And Madoka wasn't just stupid with her wish. Homura lived for years and years and is very familiar with the witch system. Of course little Madoka, who wasn't even a magical girl, can not be able to do the same thing as Homura in ep12 when she doesn't even understand the full system.
That's outrageous. Cake is a medicine for the soul, you know. Running after witches and entertaining guests would burn those calories in hours.
Certainly! I hope you're a fan of lemon cake.
I was responding specifically to you saying that he doesn't target emotional girls. He does, since that is when they are at their most vulnerable and the most likely to make a contract with him.
Homura did this over a hundred times, there was probably a timeline like that and they failed anyway.
>I lie to little naive girls, trick them and take advantage of them
>it's not my fault they die though!
Not exactly (I'm not into sour stuff in general), but it's good enough for me to enjoy.
Grief and curses have to go somewhere. Wraiths filled the void after witches were erased, something else will fill it when the wraiths are gone.
This. People should not forget that Madoka is WAY too selfless for her own good. Most people would get angry if something close to them said that they aren't worth more that a rock. Without talking about being right or wrong here. It's just something that isn't that well-liked.
It's not what I say, it's what Homura says. Oh, but I'm sure this is the part where you present proof that she lies and aren't just talking out your ass... right?
Posting more pics of Homura's cruel, awful, evil world. God, I just HATE IT when little girls like Nagisa get to live instead of being livestock for Kyubey Farms, Inc.
Have you ever thought about why he only goes up to young girls?
When you're offering magic sunshine and rainbows, kids aren't going to think much deeper than "I want___!"
Also it wasn't for human benefit, it's for the universe(but mainly QB) benefit ultimately.
>Doesn't refute the point about Nagisa
So you've accepted your new goddess, then? Kiss her feet as proof of your fealty.
...she still is "livestock for Kyubey Farms, Inc." you retard, all of them are, although it would be more accurate to call it "Homura Farms, Inc."
I'm a terrible friend for forcing my friend into therapy when he was suicidal. He's now quite happy and thanks me, but when I first did it when wasn't happy at all. But I'm selfish and evil. Yes.
>>Kyuubey, The universe's superhero
>Posting more pics of Homura's cruel, awful, evil world. God, I just HATE IT when little girls like Nagisa get to live instead of being livestock for Kyubey Farms, Inc.
I guess that's why when Homura had a chance for it to end she told the Incubators to keep doing what they do best right?
I'll kiss my queen's feet anytime.
What if he had terminal cancer and was going to die anyway?
Let me fix that. What I meant is that Kyubey doesn't target the girls for any reason other than because of their peak energy production. He doesn't prey on the young and easily manipulated, it just so happens the people who produce the most energy fall into that category. He's not preying on the weak.
>Take advantage of
>His fault nature takes its course afterward
Nope on all fronts. He says what's necessary, but he doesn't lie. The closest he comes to "taking advantage" of them is by nudging them toward making contracts or doing certain things, but he doesn't lie and manipulate them into doing what he wants. Dying is also definitely not his fault, because he's never responsible for it.
They made the agreement of their own free will. They knew what they were getting into. They got a wish of anything they could have wanted out of the deal. Whether they die to a witch or turn into one is none of Kyubey's business after that fact.
He goes after them for the sole reason that they produce the most energy. He has stated as much to Madoka. Whether or not the people he goes to understand or even care about the results of making the agreement isn't his fault, you keep removing responsibility from the other party. If old men gave the most energy, he'd go after them. They don't.
The entire universe benefits from not being destroyed. Humanity is included in that. How would ceasing to exist benefit humanity?
I'm pretty sure that by now he purposely goes for girls who aren't emotionally stable with exception to Madoka in most timelines because Homura tries to prevent it so Madoka can hopefully figure shit out.
"Charlotte"->asked to contract as her mother is dying
Mami-asked to contract when she's half dead
Kyouko-asked to contract when her dad's church is failing and she's poor as shit
Madoka-1st timeline asked when she sees a kitten run over as is upset by it
Homura-only asked to contract when as you said, is grieving over Madoka
Sayaka-asked when she has girl issues and is all hyped up about JUSTICE because of Mami.
peak energy production is how large and hasty their wish and situation are. He preys on the emotionally weak and unstable. If he didn't he wouldn't go to young girls in shitty situations for energy.
>but he doesn't lie and manipulate them into doing what he wants
No no no, we could argue all day about whether or not he technically "lies", but there is no doubt he manipulates them into doing what he wants all the time. Remember the answers have gave Kyouko about what to do about Sayaka? Afterwards he is quite explicit her death was to his advantage in regards to Madoka.
>I set up the situation perfectly and specifically for your downfall through taking advantage of you and withholding important information from you
>I-it's not my fault you die!
That's good, Anon. A responsible person should never waste food whenever possible. Sharing it is an excellent idea. Everyone could use some cake in their life.
That's the splendid thing about it; for every cake that is too sour there are two even sweeter!
Well, if I remember well they clearly say that they take energy from feelings. So it makes sense for him not to go after an adult who may take more rational decisions but after children that are more "FEELINGS EELINGS FEELINGS"
Nagisa and Sayaka are outside of the cycle of karma already, try to keep up. On top of that, Nagisa's ring/nail art are gone, suggesting that her powers are completely suppressed.
>Maybe its because Madoka sacrifices for the macrocosm of Magical Girls, while Homura does everything and manipulated the universe solely for one person?
That's part of it. However, Madoka was mostly confined to another plane of existence, a great sacrifice, while Homura can do anything she wants in the real world. Homura didn't really sacrifice anything; she got a ridiculous amount of power for free!
Even the apparently "stable" ones could eventually crack after night after night of fighting monsters--or if they find out the truth afterwards.
Did she have a ring and nail art to begin with? I don't recall seeing much of her hands when she took normal human form.
Of course, I'm saying that these girls who can generate such strong feelings and emotions are the most efficient targets, or perhaps the only ones worth contracting.
I guess if you consider emotions to be bad, then "emotional stability" might mean something. You can't make a contract based off of QB logic, it has to be the strong emotions, hopes, and dreams of young girls.
Well, if you can call watching her friends die in countless universes, countless times, free anyway. But yeah.
Thanks, I think you nailed what bothers me about this.
Kyubey is a victim of circumstance in these situations. Unlike the entire concept of the magical girls, the Incubators are bound by reality and stuck with how the laws they can interact with function. The extreme emotions of those girls are the best source of energy and so he goes to them. If Madoka wanted to spare the girls of a unnecessary fate, she could have wished that only the most cruel people on the planet produced the energy Incubators desired.
Then again, she'd want to give everyone a second chance so that would be uncharacteristic of her. Kyubey isn't responsible for their actions. You shouldn't strip everyone but him of responsibility. They could all have decided not to make the contract, after all.
She asked the wrong question. He provided a factually correct answer to the question. She never asked if it was impossible, only if it was possible. There's a difference.
She never takes hume form before the new world, but if this is indication, she might not.
If you're just going to circlejerk then put a trip so i can filter you, faggot.
>Nagisa and Sayaka are outside of the cycle of karma already
That doesn't mean that they can't generate energy for the farm, anon.
If Homura subjugated the Incubators, then who is fighting entropy?
>She asked the wrong question.
In episode 2, Madoka and Sayaka ask Kyubey directly, "What are witches?" He is very deliberate with his choice of words for the answer he gives then.
This isn't a coincidence. How could you not describe this as "manipulation"? It's purposefully misleading.
Incubators, Homura allows them to do what they always do until she can find a permanent solution to wraiths.
The Incubators are still doing what they do. What's important to Homura is keeping things the way they are for now. No cave nudity and so forth.
>It's wrong in no way to hurt someone for their betterment and safety.
Sure, at the basis of these kinds of decisions, that is workable logic. But at a real world level, multiple other factors come in that also affect whether something is right or wrong. I'm not even sure how to begin to explain this. It's just basic human interaction.
Look, what if your dad pointed a gun at you in the woods and threatened you because you were wasting your life away (in a completely hypothetical situation, I'm not automatically assuming that you're wasting your life or anything. I'm just saying 'you' because I want you to consider it) and wanted you out of the house, you would understandably feel upset. This could lead to you eventually doing something important with your life, but you would also understandably hate him for a long time, maybe forever. Him threatening you with a gun, while it turned out well, was still a wrong action.
In a best case scenario, you would recognise that your dad did do it for the right reasons but he would also recognise that what he did hurt you badly and that that was wrong. Then you could forgive and understand each other. That's also what I would consider the best end for any continuation of the series from this point if there will be one. Madoka realising that what Homura did was necessary and Homura realising that what she did hurt the person she cares for and was wrong. Then they forgive and forget, and then naked space hugs.
>was still a wrong action.
This is where philosophical and differences in morality become the determining factor. Threatening me with a gun in that case is not wrong to me.
And Nieztsche argues that sacrifice is valueless and should be overcome. Homura is the Ubermensch, deal with it.
>Homura realising that what she did hurt the person she cares for
Homura realizes this and the movie shows this through symbolism (although Gen said this was much more obvious in his script) but she doesn't think she was wrong.
>but she doesn't think she was wrong.
Because she's not.
Whatever you says, faggot.
It really bothers me that these images don't have Anthony's mustaches.
If you want it that way, sure. I don't think that not hating your dad for a time after that is in anyway a natural reaction, but sure. Let's say you have a moral code that is so rigid that it wouldn't affect you negatively at all. You've got to understand that that's not Madoka. She doesn't have your nerves of steel and sheer pragmatism. Madoka would have understandably be hurt and come into conflict with Homura over what Homura did when she remembers it. Even Homura knows and says this.
>Madoka would have understandably be hurt and come into conflict with Homura over what Homura did when she remembers it.
Of course. Homura still wasn't wrong though. She was right.
I'm sure if you repeat it enough times it will become real, anon.
It will never be objective. It's not meant to be. Saying she's right is the same thing as saying she's wrong: asserting opinions.
Yeah, it's quite obvious Homura realises that. And yeah, she may not necessarily see it as wrong. That's what I'm saying though. Eventually she would have to realise that it was wrong on some levels. That would be the only way to solve stuff, any denial on her side would just further sever her close relationship with Madoka, just as any refusal to accept that it was made for the right basic reason on Madoka's side would do the same thing.
Why would she deny it or refuse anything? Amor fati--love your fate.
Gott ist tot.
Please understand what I'm saying. Homura is right on some levels - namely the basic reasoning - and wrong on other levels - namely the hurting Madoka bit and some minor selfish reasons. It's very possible to be both right and wrong about something, and like everything in this series, it's not a black and white issue. It's grey.
She could do that, but what the scenario I'm putting forward is the best ending, in which Homura and Madoka do come into confrontation but are eventually able to move past it. If Homura just accepts her fate about it, it wouldn't turn out like that. Also, Homura cares for Madoka deeply, that's the basis of why she made the wish. I don't think Homura is so headstrong about her fate that she'd want to come into prolonged, unsolvable conflict with Madoka over anything.
Why not erase the force that makes negative emotions manifest? It could be something that is hard coded into the universe, but Madoka proved that new laws can be made and Homura proved that existing laws can be altered.
You could try that, but, the Incubators use that to prevent the heat death of the universe, so...
Oh boy, I bet this is the ending. the girls live happily ever after and then after their perfectly natural deaths the whole universe dies a few centuries later
But how else is Homura going to get Madoka back? Ask her to come down and not sacrifice her own life in the service of order?
I think you're suppose to look at this as more of a conflict of philosophy, order vs desire, not a bunch of misunderstandings.
But they are misunderstandings, kinda. Homura never listen to what Madokami has to say.
Why doesn't Sayaka just trick Homura into saying her own name backwards?
That might work.
She could have just not told Kyubey about the witch stuff and waited for her eventual afterlife as God's wife that's fill with endless space hugs and happiness.
No they aren't. The point of Homura's actions is that Madoka isn't going to agree, she will always sacrifice her own happiness for the sake of others.
>implying the after life exists
>implying the law of cycles isn't a mass bodiless collection of souls
Read the whole thread. Everything about Madoka's happiness. That's the whole point and what caused Homura's actions.
>implying the after life exists
Why bodies of girls taken by LoC disappear too?
Where Bebe takes her body out from?
I'm not saying it's a series of misunderstandings. I know Homura wants Madoka back, but what she wants isn't the be all and end all (even though I guess it turned out that way with the whole god thingo. It's kinda funny that it turned out that way, but it's still selfish). Anyway, I've said my piece, I guess you kinda get what I'm saying or you don't.
Look man, I know what's going on. I don't really want to undermine anything I said previously, but at the end of the day I just want them to consensually scissor. Doesn't matter how.
Wait fuck, not >>101081993
Or they can simply reignite the universe after the heat death, something like Shiva does in Hinduism. The lyrics of Your Silver Garden mention flying towards the endless beginning, to the true end. Many things in the series appear cyclic, maybe the universe itself is too.
>but what she wants isn't the be all and end all
Sure, I guess? Same argument could be made for Madoka. Nothing is perfect, the original TV series end was bittersweet but with a lot of optimism.
From here I'd simply point to >>101078959
I just finished watching rebellion via shitty camcorder with broken english subs. I liked it, but I don't think the ending was ultimately necessary. If it ended 20 minutes and 47 seconds earlier I think it would have been a perfect closure to the series.
Still, it's pretty good regardless. I hope they do wrap everything up at some point, hopefully though a season 2 that's still helmed by Gen.
I was partially saying what >>101078959 said. What I'm saying overall is that Homura was right in some regards and wrong in some regards at the same time. It was just a response to someone defending Homura as if she was completely free of any wrongdoing, which just isn't the case.
Homura did everything wrong
Homura did nothing worng
Homura did something wrong
>the characters are uninteresting
>the plot is predictable
opinions, and bullshit
>ignores plot points
>the fights aren't real good
I hope you didn't injure your mouth on that hook