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Guide (Start here):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G5C7fCe07CDzYalZYZObzxv_fhw7RUNsLHiMAY-t7FA/edit

Reading List:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Agk2IH0ZXhn7dDNmSW1BVFU5dVgyOHkzWjU4b2l2dkE
#l/a/nguage on irc.rizon.net
Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/w0gRFM0c

Previous Thread:
http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/100957825/
>>
Is it important to learn how to hand-write kanji? I'll mostly use moon to read, and when I write it it'll be on the computer, so I'm not sure.
Just thinking about handwriting 試験 makes me dizzy.
>>
>>101032517
Yes
>>
>>101032573
Fuck. ok.
>>
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つまんないよ~!
>>
>that sensation when you're able to read something in kanji with no help for the first time
>>
>>101032954
>Who are you quoting?
>>
http://fweb.midi.co.jp/~hobby/index.php/view/74?

can someone tell me if my friend is dying. i used google translate and the mood seems grim
>>
>>101033047
>le who are you quoting meme
>>
>>101032517
Technically no; it will however help you retain and reinforce the information.

after a while you'll get a feel for the radicals and correct stroke order so it gets easier.
Personally, found it to make them less "intimidating"

>>101032643
What did ya' expect from a book aimed at classroom usage?
>>
My phone's IME doesn't come up with 胆気 when I write 「たんき」, is that a good indication that this word is too obscure for me to use? I found it in my reading so it obviously has some value.
>>
What's the difference between 獣 and 動物?
>>
>>101033204
Not dying. Had influenza and now something called "Giant-cell tumor of the tendon sheath" that requires cosmetic surgery.
>>
>>101035490
ty anon
>>
>>101035096
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/68837/m0u/
http://dic.nicomoba.jp/k/a/%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%8E
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/156763/m0u/%E5%8B%95%E7%89%A9/
ggrks
>>
Why can't you put だ after i-adjectives? Is there a particular reason for it?
>>
>>101036052
Because they conjugate like verbs.
>>
>>101036052
Historically, I-adj's came first and are 'real' adjectives so they have more strict grammatical rules.
>>
What is the best way to get through manga? Should I try and use Kanjitomo or just try and use rikai or what?
>>
Do I use する for wearing ribbons?
>>
>still have trouble with basic particles
Fucking に and で. Sure へ and occasionally を can add to the confusion, but not nearly as much as the first two. I mean を in terms of distance or direction commands and instructions, not that を as a particle is all that confusing.
>>
What's the difference between 忘れた 忘れてた? I feel like I get it, but it's hard to put into words. Am I correct in saying the latter is more of an 'in the moment' kind of thing, while the former is more stating a fact?
>>
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How old is Asagi supposed to be anyways? This girl looks just like Yotsuba's dad.
>>
>>101036604
Wouldn't it just be something like 「リボンを着る」? What were you thinking, 「リボンする」?
>>
>>101037715
>「リボンを着る」
Yeah, but I'm not sure since as far as I know they use する for accessories
>>
>>101032517
If you're scared to right that, just stop trying. That's fairly easy.
>>
>>101038391
>right
>>
>>101032517
If you're scared to write that, just stop trying.
>>
>>101034891
Do people actually think it's a meme now?
>>
パパ
This reads as papa right?
>>
>>101038968
How else would it be read?
>>
>>101039020
But does it mean the same thing as it would in English?

Also, what's the best way to translate a word into katakana? (A word such as >Breaking)
>>
>>101039100
Please stop asking all your stupid questions. You were in the last thread too. Either shut up and learn to not ask every single thing that pops in your head or stop trying to learn another language.
>>
>>101039100
If you can't figure it out, use a fucking dictionary, rocket science it aint
>>
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>>101039157
>>101039199
Where's the link to the dictionary
>>
>>101039329
http://dictionary.jp/
>>
>>101039100

Install Rikaisama and just hover over words you don't know.
>>
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>>101039358
>Website that does nothing
Am I being tricked?
>>
>>101039430
Set your locale to Japanese.
>>
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>>101039422
I'm clicking the download link on Rikaisama, but it's doing nothing

>>101039494
How? My IME is already Jaパnese
>>
>>101038968
Why would you ask something so incredibly stupid? Sound it out, faggot.
>>
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>>101039666
>Sound it out
But some sounds aren't in the moonspeak language. I can't find a ja sound in katakana
>>
>>101039723
>ジャ
>>
>>101039723
ジャ。
Same way as hiragana, just in katakana.
>>
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>>101039767
>>101039776
oh shit

i just realized the program I'm using doesn't include modern sounds

top kek
>>
>>101039872
Stop posting here please, no one cares.
>>
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>>101039908
>Stop posting in a thread designed for japanese learning
>>
>>101039630
>I'm clicking the download link on Rikaisama, but it's doing nothing
You are so stupid that it hurts. Please stop posting.
>>
>>101039630
>>101039723
>>101038968
This newfaggotry is killing me.
>>
>>101039985
Fuck off shitposter.
>>
>>101040255
People are too fucking stupid to not reply.
>>
What verb do I use for wearing ribbons?
>>
>>101040648
つける
>>
thank you
>>
亡いスレ
亡い言語
>>
>Kanjitomo doesn't pick up a word
>spend 10 minutes trying to find out where the word starts and ends so I can put it into a dictionary

God fucking damn it. And I'd learn conjugations much easier if Kanjitomo worked with them, it only works with the dictionary form unfortunately.
>>
age
>>
Is 嫉妬 a na adjective? Or when I see 嫉妬な is it just some kind of pun with the reading shit?
>>
>>101044841
嫉妬 is a noun, not an adjective
>>
>>101045342
Then what the fuck is this shit?

今の攻撃は嫉妬なわけですか

Unless I'm supposted to read it as litteraly SHIT shitto or somthing this shitto makes no sense
>>
>>101045601
ーなわけ is a colloquialism
>>
>>101045601
Holy shit you're stupid
It translates to

"That comment just proofs you're jealous"

what, you think the わけ is 嫉妬?
>>
>>101045842
>comment
>proofs

クソワロタ
>>
韓国(かんこく)
監獄(かんごく)

偶然じゃないぞ
>>
>>101045758
It's not a colloquialism, you have to put な if you want to end the sentence with わけ.
>>
>>101045954
韓国(かんこく)
糞(かんこく)
池沼(かんこく)
芥(かんこく)

いや多分偶然だと思う
>>
>>101046124
本当に馬鹿だよな?
>>
>>101046121
んな訳あるか
>>
>>101046366
韓国人が?
うん、そうだよ
>>
>>101046518
その餌を真に受けるな
>>
>>101046644
心配しないで
今時韓国人を真に受ける人はもういないでしょう
>>
>>101038947
Asking "Who are you quoting?" as a reply to greentext has been a meme for some time. You better recheck your dictionary or your knowledge of what's posted here.
>>
>>101042133
To be fair it'd be pretty tough to make a perfect Kanjitomo. Especially when slurs and mispronunciations start getting involved.
>>
JiiのJiiは次世代のJii
JiiのJiiは時代のJii
JiiのJiiは自由のJii
JiiのJiiはジゴロのJii
>>
あっあの
先輩
あたしはね
先輩にしてもらいたい事があるんだけど
それはね
このぞろ目を確認する事
>>
Meiryo or Gothic?
>>
>>101048306
これを確認しろ *ちんぽを取り出す*
>>
>>101048306
だからこのぞろ目を持ってきちゃって
さあ確認してください
>>
>>101048383
I prefer Meiryo.
>>
>>101048433
>>101048422
素晴らしい
感動して確認した
>>
>>101048383
Who's gothic?
>>
>>101048306
Please stop talking like a little faggot.
>>
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What kind of Katakana is this?
>>
>>101048868
あぁん?
日本語で書けないくせに他人の文書を蔑むなんていい加減恥をしろ馬鹿たれ
文句があったら俺の顔の前で言ってみろこら
>>
>>101049046
A fast one.
>>
>>101049129
Do a lot of mangas tend to use a mix of hiragana and katakana? I'm getting confused because I haven't mastered katakana yet.
>>
Daily reminder not to reply to the mentally disabled or to the people (them) replying (to themselves)
>>
Is there any way to enlarge the text in Anki?
>>
>>101049181
It's not a kana you fucking idiot. It's a kanji. Holy fuck, do some basic research before posting stupid shit.
>>
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>>101049271
Holy shit man, you're fucking mad

might wanna put some tampons on ya' bitch
>>
>>101049219
Go to a card, then Edit > Cards > change the font size/make a span with HTML (for an individual part of the card). It works for all of the cards in that deck, but you'd have to change any other decks accordingly.
>>
>>101049419
I tried that but it makes no difference. Oh well, I guess it's a client-side problem.
Thanks anyways.
>>
>>101040255
>>101040418

ITT and every DJT: Assholes. Assholes everywhere.

Like none of us started from scratch, either.
>>
>>101050323
>Like none of us started from scratch, either.

That's a fallacy and you know it. Nobody's shitting on anyone else solely because they're new to the language. They're shitting on them because they're posting stupid shit and questions with answers that are easily googleable. The same is true for /a/ in general, if people would just lurk more instead of posting the first thing that comes to mind, the board would be a lot better.
>>
>>101050323
Maybe people shouldn't ask questions here until they've learned a bit. There are fair, complicated questions that the guide can't answer, and then there's "what should I learn: hiragana or katakana?"-tier.
>>
>>101050905
I agree with this guy. Eventually there are questions not answerable with a quick google. When you start, there aren't many of 'em.
>>
Ok guys, I have a question.

What the hell does 哀しからず mean? I know that 哀しい is sad, but I can't find anywhere the meaning of -からず.
>>
>>101051516
Isn't it 哀しがらず?
>>
>>101051587
According to google is with か:

「白鳥は
哀しからずや
空の青
海のあをにも
染まずただよふ」
>>
>>101051900
>poetry
We may never know
>>
>>101051900
Sorry, don't know then. Since it ends in azu I'd guess it's some negative form. Maybe an old form of 悲しがらず even.
>>
>>101052032
>>101052096
Could it be some sorttening of 哀しくならず?
>>
>>101052758
Perhaps. That would amount to pretty much the same thing as 哀しがらず.
>>
>TVとっといてくれた?

If the verb here is 撮る, what is the function of that とい?
>>
>>101047797
So how am I supposed to call out greentext shitposting now?
>>
>>101051516
からず is the old negative form. It's the same as 哀しくない. You'll see it preserved in some current phrases, such as あしからず.
>>
>>101055832
Why doth thy japanese doeth this?
>>
>>101053719
っとく=っておく. It's とっておく.
>>
>>101055891
I see now, thanks. Do you happen to know a decent resource or list of all of these common shortenings? It's what's slowing my reading the most, and they're not always easy to find when I don't know what to search.
>>
>>101056306
Not really. Most of it I picked up by guessing or googling. If you google "とっとく meaning" for example, you'll get results that explain it. A large part of learning language is not memorization, but learning how to guess or figure things out.
>>
>>101054976
If it's shitposting you can just call on their shitposting for what it is. Also,I don't think there's anything wrong with it being a meme in itself. People who think memes are a bad thing are usually people who don't really understand what a meme is. The problem is that it's a stupid meme that makes no sense because when it started being used people where using greentext for things other than quoting for a long time already and it was common practice, as it still is.
>>
>>101055891
>っとく
That's not even in there.
>>
>>101057158
Think for one second about it. Read the original post. Think again. Then if you still don't get it, go study some basic grammar before trying to correct people.
>>
>>101057158
とっといて is a conjugation of とっとく.
>>
>隆起
Is that commonly used to describe an erection?
>>
>>101057833
I only saw 勃起
>>
>>101057833
Yes, yes it is.
>>
I'm learning Japanese via Genki I and I just got up to Chapter 8 with 〜と思います。

In the practice book, it asks me:
>日本語のクラスについてどう思いますか。
And I want to answer:
>日本語のクラスは楽しいと思います。

Is that grammatically correct in the way that this book wants me to answer?
>>
>>101057158
Fucking japanese verbs, huh?
>>
>>101058105
Whenever you're asked a question all you need to respond with is くたばれ
>>
>>101057050
>when it started being used people where using greentext for things other than quoting for a long time already
So what? People were making dubs threads on /a/ all the time before, they were called out for their faggotry and it stopped. Using greentext for >tfw
or it's equivalent is /v/tier shitposting.

今、僕は勉強しなければならない。
>>
>>101058105
Yes. That sentence is perfectly correct. I haven~t done Genki so I don't know what it wants you to answer, but the sentence is just fine.

Of course, in a real conversation you wouldn't give such a long reply. A simple 楽しいと思います would suffice.
>>
I just finished the kana and in a few days I'll be going on a road trip where I plan to study with a good portion of my free time. I won't have access to wifi most of the time but I'm going to download the anki app and probably read a lot of Tae Kim. Is there anything else I can get/do to prepare for a week of studying a lot?
>>
>>101058335
You didn't point out any reason why using greentext for things other than quoting is bad, you just pointed out one way in which people use it to shitpost. That's the same fallacy as saying memes are bad because there are stupid memes out there. For the record, I'm not trying to make any claims that >>101032954 wasn't shitposting.
>>
>>101058344
Right right, but for sake of completeness.

Thanks!
>>
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What do the dots above sounaru mean?
>>
>>101058602
Emphasis. Like underlining a word or writing it bold or in italic.
>>
>>101058706
Thanks.
>>
Does anyone understand what 小便をちびり means? Google is telling me "tsilivi piss", which sounds clearly wrong.
>>
>>101060083
ちびる is to wet yourself. 小便 is urine. You do the math.
>>
>>101060083
To break a contract miserly.
>>
>>101060083
You really shouldn't use google translate. Ever.
>>
I decided to drop $25 on the anki app and it was surprisingly worth it. I recommend it highly, I am much more productive on the phone than on the computer.
>>
>>101061417
anki dev, pls
>>
>>101061417
isn't anki app free?
>>
>>101061597
Not for the phone, I think.
>>
>>101061417
Macfag plz, it's free on android and not as good. Agreed so much harder to be distracted on a phone, but sometimes editing and research needs to be done and then I want to die.
>>
>>101061646
it keeps downloading hundreds of megabytes to my phone when I sync and I don't know why
>>
>>101061639
But I didn't payed anything to have it in my android
>>
>>101061715
Make sure to turn off your sound and pictures from wherever it's done at(ankiweb maybe), unless you want them on your phone taking up space.
>>
>じゃあ、卒業式を始めさせていただきたいと思うので
日本語って、極めて回りくどい言語だよな
>>
http://www.forvo.com/word/konnichiwa/#ja

>dat MikkiPawlick
>>
>>101061832
the thing is i don't have any sound or pics in my deck

it's like it's downloading my entire deck half the time I sync
>>
>>101061955
Check sync settings and see if it's set to force full sync.

Sometimes it does it if you have a database conflict from not syncing on one device before doing reps on the other, other times I think it's just QUALITY programming. I'm on android and have only had it happen a few times and I can't figure out if it's random or not.
>>
>>101061786
Android version is developed by different people.
>>
What do you guys think of Genetic Kanji (learning kanji through etymology)?

I've tried both RTK and KD and don't like either completely, though I have liked parts of each (mnemonics in RTK, ordering and reading in KD). Genetic Kanji seems to have both, plus the mnemonics is the etymology of the kanji.

http://www.genetickanji.com/
>>
>>101048012
itd be cool if they could link it to the same algorithm as rikai though, conjugations would be pretty nice
>>
>>101062832
Genetic kanji is good.

Better than RTK which from my hiragana days is fucking stupid. Though coming up with a story does help (eg. mother loves her child for "suki")
>>
>>101063186
I only started today, but the etymology for 王 is both interesting and quite helpful.

I got to around 800 in RTK before I quit, and 400+ in KD. I did around 15/20 new kanji a day, and I quit when the reviews where overwhelming. I think I'm going to take the suggestion from the genetic kanji site and just do 5 a day... seems way too easy, though. What do you guys think? How many new kanji are you doing per day?
>>
>>101063450
What were you going for on the kanji? Recognition, pronuciation, writing, on and kunyomi?
>>
Is Nico the best place to find Japanese people streaming and commentating on video games?
>>
>>101063708
Writing, recognition, and onyomi. When I learned a new one, I wrote it 20 times.
>>
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>>101063450
I'm not too sure about the etymologies, but they're a lot better than rtk for remembering them.

Seal script isn't always the best indicator of original form but this resource seems to have older forms than modern seal script. Neither 玉 nor 王 share the same anything as 三 and now I'm curious where it really came from.
>>
>>101064130
Hmm, well, in the entry for 王, there is a link to here http://zhongwen.com/cgi-bin/zipu.cgi?b5=%A4%FD that has the same etymology. There is another link to the Tower of Babel site, but it seems that the entry is broken.
>>
>>101063450
honestly 30 at the start to hundredish for the last week, wanted to get through that part fast. Think of it this way, at 5 a day it will take you over 400 days just to learn the meanings of the common kanji.
>>
>>101064711
Basically this, if you're willing to take ~2 years what someone can do in about 6 months, then that's up to you.
>>
>>101064359
>Since the zipu are based on traditional etymologies, which themselves are based primarily on the "seal" characters from about 2,200 years ago, this dictionary does not represent the current state of research into character etymologies. In the last century far older characters have been uncovered, allowing modern researchers to go beyond the traditional etymologies and obtain a better understanding of the true history of Chinese characters

Sounds to me like it's a mix of actual etymologies and mnemonics made up by ancient scribes with the truth being fuzzy for anything that isn't obvious. For some reason, I trust 3000 year old RtK to work a little better.
>>
>>101064711
Yeah, that's pretty much one of the reasons why I'm not sure about five a day.. I know the vast majority of the grade 1/grade 2 kanji, if not the reading, at least the meaning... but I don't want to burn out yet again.

>>101064877
Makes sense. The seal characters are really interesting looking.. comparable to how Greek looks.

Anyone in here try to learn another language after Japanese?
>>
>>101065078
Ainu sounds fun. I want to get in on the bear stabbing dance and all the best mythology is hidden in there.
>>
>Start on kanji
Oh God I feel like I'm about to have a panic attack.
Is this the feeling everyone has at first? I'm not even sure how to go about memorizing something like this...
Is there a deck with just the first grade kanji? Maybe the simplest ones will help me ease in better instead of this one with all 1006 early years being flung at me randomly.
>>
>>101065271
>Ainu
Wow, I didn't know about this language/culture.

If you do get to learning it, make sure to translate some of the cooler stuff.

There should be some sort of repository for the best myths/legends/traditions, translated by people who learned the language. I wouldn't mind learning some ancient languages and digging up weird stuff all over the map.
>>
>>101065384
If you're starting kanji you should probably be using Remembering the Kanji or KanjiDamage.
>>
>>101063450
I dropped RTK somewhat recently ~600 in and have been trying out simply learning vocab by themselves for a month or two. This seems like something to try out if I find strictly-vocab to be too difficult.
>>
People's opinion on Kanjidamage?
>>
>>101065845
Recently when I started doing KD, I realized how much of a difference learning the onyomi makes when learning the kanji. For example, though I learned less kanji with KD than with RtK, I can recall more of them and correctly guess the reading of a compound word. It's way more satisfying.

So though I think that doing the vocab is a good idea to keep up the motivation, learning kanji by kanji can be very satisfying... perhaps a hybrid would do. Only a few individual kanji a day, but more vocabulary...
>>
>>101065837
I lack access to a desktop currently.
I recall someone mentioning a kanji senpai app that I think I'll try.
>>
>>101066148
>I can't use websites on a phone
>>
>>101065960
KD is alright because it teaches you the reading plus gives you some examples... but imo, the mnemonics are terrible, as is the fact that it doesn't teach you stroke order (you could learn that on your own, though).
>>
>>101066148
Why don't you just use Koohii?
>>
>>101065960
It's ok, a lot of the mnemonics aren't great, but it's a lot better than RTK, in my opinion, which is pretty much its only competitor.
>>
>>101065845
I dropped RTK at around 800 to try Vocab and I think im done trying to do more unless I have trouble with really complex kanji.
>>
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>>101066216
Have you ever tried to browse most websites with phone internet? Let alone one that is going to constantly load things.

>>101066263
>koohii
Does it start from the early kanji or is it mixed like anki decks?
Cause that's what I'm mainly looking for.
>>
>>101066052
So do you learn both on and kun now? What were you even doing before?
>>
>>101066719
>I can't scroll with my fingers because they're probably the size of most normal people
>>
>>101067118
I was talking about loading times.
Unless the site has a mobile view mode, it takes too long to load unless I have a wifi point nearby I can latch onto.
>>
>>101066836
Before I was learning the meaning, writing, and the on, just from the KD deck. But I also played some VNs, watched RAW anime, and just read a lot. I didn't do a separate vocabulary deck, but I would open a text document and write down the words that I understood, or that I could guess the reading or meaning. That boosted my motivation a lot, and though I wasn't doing SRS with those sentences, it helped me remember a lot of the kanji I was already seeing in KD.

However, because I had to miss a day or two of reps, my cards piled up. I never got back in step and quit (though I continued to play VNs). Right now I want to learn with genetic kanji, with a regular Jouyou deck for anki. Recognition, writing, and on. Instead of doing around 20+ kanji a day like I was doing before, I think I'm going to take it slower and focus on getting vocabulary through playing VNs.
>>
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>と思って
Is this an instance where the いる gets cut off completely? Or does it not mean "I'm thinking the ukelele might fit well with an Okinawan song."?
>>
>>101062832
>liking ordering of KD
Are you retarded? Serious question.
>>
>>101064711
>hundred kanji a day
Some of us do more than just learn the meaning.
>>
>>101062832
Am I missing something? The page doesn't have much (useful) information, it uses romaji out the ass, and goes at a pace of 5 a day. This looks like shit.
>>
>>101068439
it's not the いる that's being dropped here, more like 「・そうした」

context is important, but it's usually a colloquial thing
>>
>>101068985
then some of you are wasting your time.
That shit and vocabs best learned by reading, knowing the readings doesn't help you read manga any better.
>>
>>101068439
It's not cut off, it wasn't there in the first place. Read about the te form.
>>
>>101068985
the whole point of learning the kanji first is to read simple chinese comics as soon as possible retard

Shockingly enough slowing the process down for something that doesn't help you read is pants on head retarded.
>>
>>101069366
>>101069252
I'm constantly reminded why DJT is so bad at Japanese.
>>
>>101069366
>the whole point of learning the kanji first is to read simple chinese comics as soon as possible retard
If that's why you're doing it you're retarded, given that you could start reading chinese comics without "learning kanji"
>>
>>101069421
You're a dumbass.
>>
>>101069267
I have, and it's lead me to believe that the te form without anything following it is like a request similar to ください.
>>
>>101069421
>>101069427
What possible benefit does learning the readings give you when anything simple enough for you to learn from at that point will have furigana?

Also good luck reading when you can't even puzzle out the meanings of things, might as well be reading bear speak as Japanese.
>>
>>101069518
>puzzling out meaning of words
>when you can just look it up, and then spend a few seconds thinking about it
That's your problem, you have brain damage.
>>
>>101069518
Why even learn japanese at all? Everything good gets translated! Keep on trying to rationalize why the lazy approach is the best approach.
>>
>>101069576
>doing something in a second
>breaking concentration to look somewhere else for thirty seconds
>totally the same thing

I am afraid that you might be the one with brain damage

>>101069617
I'm waiting for an explanation of any advantage it gives.

Yes, stay away from native materials as long as you can, better to spend your time doing reps than exposing yourself to their filthy pig tongue.
it is the devil
>>
I was thinking about memorisation methods and I came up with an idea, hear me out: instead of studying 10 kanji for every day for 5 days why not study 50 kanji on the first day then spend 4 days going back over those 50 kanji. Opinions?
>>
>>101069769
Yes, because clearly knowing some english keyword for each kanji means you don't have to put any effort in to remember the reading or meaning. I bet you can't read without furigana.
>>
>>101069769
Good to know that if I learn anything more than the meaning that I must obviously only do reps all day. I totally don't spend my time reading anything at all in Japanese.
>>
>>101069875
Not him, but you learn the readings when you learn vocab. The only things you wouldn't be able to read doing that are names, which someone studying individual readings probably wouldn't get without furigana either.
>>
>>101069875
I couldn't when i started, but shockingly enough you start reading you can't read philosophical treatises and all the simple crap you can even somewhat understand has furigana.

Strangely enough, when you learn vocab you pick up the readings pretty quick as well as picking up a fair amount from seeing it repeatedly.

>>101069926
Nope, but it means you have an understanding of fewer kanji while gaining no benefit in return
>>
>>101070007
Learning more than the meaning of the kanji somehow means I have less understanding of said kanji and that additional knowledge is somehow no benefit. Either b8 or retarded.
>>
>>101069980
He claimed that you only need to spend a second on each word if you've done RTK.

>>101070007
>Strangely enough, when you learn vocab you pick up the readings pretty quick as well as picking up a fair amount from seeing it repeatedly.
Again, then why waste time on RTK?
I'll be honest, I don't even care if you use RTK or not. I just think it's silly how you're trying to argue in two directions at once, as if your amount of learning japanese before reading is the perfect amount, and any more or less is doing it wrong.
>>
>>101070085
>understanding of fewer kanji
>fewer kanji
>fewer
you have the same understanding of kanji, but know fewer
>>
>>101070170
>you have the same understanding of kanji
You blew it
>>
>>101070088
I'm waiting for you tell me literally any advantage you get from knowing one reading of the kanji when everything you can even somewhat read at that point is furigana.

The point of RTK in my mind is to somewhat read as soon as possible, it's not the only way, there are many valid ways, but from your logic why not learn every reading independently of anything just because it's more knowledge?

>>101070228
> fewer... again
Maybe you should learn english before you worry about japanese...
>>
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>>101069819
Nobody?
>>
>>101070170
>knowing more than the meaning means you have the same understanding as someone who only knows the meaning
I think you're literally retarded.
>>
>>101070307
>I'm waiting for you tell me literally any advantage you get from knowing one reading of the kanji when everything you can even somewhat read at that point is furigana.
Why would you assume everyone wants to start out with stupid kiddie shit?
>>
>>101070432
Because all he can read is stupid kiddie shit so he assumes that's all anyone can read.
>>
>>101070395
When everything at that point is in furigana and you're going to pick up more common readings from vocab... pretty much.

>>101070432
Good luck running before you can walk.
>>
>>101070432
>thinks knowing one meaning will help him read more complex material
oh god my sides, where are my sides
>>
What is that character after 女の?
>>
>>101070549
>one meaning
We're talking about readings, bub. Regardless why would you only learn one reading? I mean I know you're only shitposting and all, but at least put in some effort.
>>
>>101070561
>>
>>101070561
>>
>>101070561
>>
>>101070506
>Good luck running before you can walk.
Just because it doesn't have a furigana crutch for retards doesn't mean is has super difficult grammar or anything. Many more "advanced" things are actually easier to understand for learners, because they have less slang, onomotopeia, weird grammar, etc.
>>
>>101070658
>>101070659
>>101070674
Way to prove you suck at japanese.
It's clearly 孑
>>
>>101070658
>>101070659
>>101070674

Well that makes sense now. I should have guessed but it looks so different from what I'm used to.
>>
日本語能力試験を受けたみなさん、結果はどうでしたか?
>>
常用漢字 "regular-use kanji" - 2,136 characters
人名用漢字, "kanji for use in personal names" 2,928 characters
Approximately 2,000 to 3,000 characters are in common use in Japan, a few thousand more find occasional use, and a total of about 13,000 characters can be encoded in various Japanese Industrial Standards for kanji.

That's fucking astounding.

Any advice for learning kanji for someone who speaks fluently, watches raw anime pretty easy but only knows a couple hundred kanji? Do you write them out over and over again or what?
>>
>>101071063
RTK
>>
>>101071063
If you already know a hundred of them and understand radicals, you could do fine just reading manga with furigana. As long as you pay attention to the kanji, and which radicals are in it, you'll pick it up very quickly if you know the word already. Its really fucking easy.

Do RTK only if you have trouble with that (or if you want to learn to write), and even if you choose to do RTK you should do what I suggested at the same time.
>>
Read if you just want to recognise them.

If you're fluent, do RTK. RTK is pointless for people who aren't fluent. However it's very helpful if you want to WRITE KANJI because you already know all the vocab to attach the kanji to it's much easier and works quite well. When you review, review VOCAB that use the kanji you learn in the book.

This only works for people who are fluent and have a large vocabulary though.
>>
>>101071148
That's not that book with the fucking silly stories to remember things that's even harder than just remembering the character itself is it?
>>
>>101071240
They're mnemonics. Just about all people who have "eidetic memory" are basically people who just use mnemonics in everyday life.

It's impossible to learn (and WRITE) 3000 characters just by writing them over and over. Japanese people can't do it and they spend their entire life in Japan.
>>
>>101071331
Alright, i'll certainly try it anyway, as is I'm barely remembering anything. Thankyou
>>
>>101071331
Of course it is.
It's just only about 2k or so are common in the language people commonly write, and most japanese people don't write any more (thus ワープロ馬鹿)
>>
>>101071379
>and most japanese people don't write any more
But that's wrong. The Japanese culture is super respectful and cater to the older generation. The older generation also says fuck computers and thus handwriting is a lot more common there than say the US or Europe.
>>
>>101071331
Ah also I have a question about mnemonics. Once you've gotten really familiar with a character do you simply forget the mnemonic when you no longer need it or is it something you will always need to remember?
>>
>>101071422
Perhaps, but I bet those people have no trouble remembering the kanji that they need.
>>
>>101071379
>people commonly write

Haha, no. Many people forget so many of the kanji that are in the 常用漢字 when they have to write it down. A lot of the harder kanji words have just become カタカナ (see fruits and animals) because it's easier to write 4 strokes instead of 10.
>>
When reading raw manga should I have a page open with it translated to see if im getting it right?
>>
>>101071433
The mnemonic is only there to help you remember at first. Eventually you will no longer need it, but if you forget how to write it you can always recall the mnemonic.

Many people use mnemonics when starting hiragana and katakana, after a while you just don't need them anymore.
>>
>>101071422
Hahahaha. Where do you get your information? The younger generation barely writes anymore. Once they get to university there is no need anymore.
>>
>>101071477
>fruit and animal kanji
They didn't forget how to write those, they never learned in the first place.
>>
>>101070561
母さん…捨てなかったんだね…優しい…
>>
>>101071496
Why not? I do that, but I only open the page if I really am confused. Just make sure you aren't checking the translation first.
>>
>>101071496
>>101071759
Also make sure you trust the translator. There's a bunch of pretty bad ones, and also more liberal translations may not be so helpful.
>>
Do any of you ever help each other over Skype?
I don't know, I'm just a babby, I can't really do anything except directions and ordering food but without anyone to talk to it feels really empty.
>>
>>101071817
>liberal translation

Redundant. Translation by nature is liberal. Transliteration is probably better when studying a foreign language.
>>
>>101071882
>more liberal
>redundant
You're retarded. Even if you claim all translations are liberal, that doesn't change the fact that some can be more liberal than others.
>>
>>101071844
Do you want to talk in English or Japanese? It sounds like you can't really hold a conversation in Japanese so I'm gonna assume English... but in that case, it seems like your time could be better spent in this thread studying than on Skype.
>>
>>101071963
Okay then,I'll keep at it for now, it's just so boring sometimes alone!
>>
>>101072078
Join the IRC...?
>>
>>101072170
You mean the reddit/wanikani japanese IRC channel?
>>
>>101072170
That place is dead as fuck
>>101072200
What?
>>
>>101072200
>wanikani

Oh god. Why is it so damn bad.
>>
I just cant get into Tae Kim.
>>
>>101073032
Do Genki.
>>
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How do you get from the actual line to the provided translation?

Using rikaichan + basic grammar knowledge, the translation I came up with is:

"I'm also not in the position of being able to say various things to you"

Nothing to do with morality at all.
>>
>>101073633
どうこういう has the connotation of judging someone or commenting on what they're doing (like backseat driving). "moral" is a bit strong of a translation, but given proper context, it's not wrong.
>>
>>101073032
Same here. Apparently it's the best thing to use though because it doesn't beat around the bush and just jumps into it, correct?
>>
>>101073801
>>101073032
It's best used as a reference list rather than as a textbook. It moves very quickly and doesn't have as many examples or sample problems as a real textbook (like genki) would. It's a great resource, but don't count on it as your only one.
>>
I started using duolingo for German the other day and it is pretty interesting. I wonder how long it will be until the Japanese course gets released, and I also wonder how they are going to handle teaching the kanji.
>>
>>101073838
Do I have to read the whole damn book or can I get by with looking up what I need as I read in the wild?
>>
>>101073926
What he said is basically
>Tae Kim is a better reference. Genki is better as a textbook to work through.

What you asked is basically
>So do I have to use Genki as a textbook or can I use it as a reference?

Do you see the problem here?
>>
>>101073926
Genki or Tae Kim? If you're at a point where you feel comfortable working with real material, I don't see any particular need to go through all of Genki.
>>
>>101073633
What is the character after "あれもあん"?
>>
>>101073987
It's not あれも, it's おれも.

おれもあんたのことをどうこう言える立場じゃない
>>
>>101074015
My mistake. That's た? Wow. I was trying to figure out how the hell it was a broken 方 or something
>>
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>mfw playing Danganronpa 2

I get understand and then I don't understand.
>>
>>101074347
Maybe pick something easier than edgy phoenix lite.
>>
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>>101074482
But I like it, then again the only import series I've been playing for years is SRW
>>
Summon Night is a good place to start with imports.
>>
>>101073633
You'll do good in translating doujins.
>>
>tfw you realize you've been reading a word incorrectly for months to years.
>>
>>101075838
>tfw that happens in English

epitome
>>
age
>>
>でもあの子元気だから島の子ってかんじねー
How is って being used in this? In place of the は particle?
>>
Hey guys, this may sound stupid but I've been using coreplus on anki for about 2 weeks now and it never show the kanji first up, which I thought it would. It only shows the kana which kind of gets irritating. Am I being retarded and missing something or is it supposed to always be just the kana that appear before "show answer" is pressed?
>>
>>101081073

You can customize the deck however you want. If you enter the browser, select a card from the deck in question and press the "cards..." button, you get to the layout editor. From how you describe your problem, simply pressing the "flip" button should do it.
>>
>>101081171
Thanks a lot, people like you are the reason this threads do so well, putting up with my idiocy
>>
???????????
>>
>>101081217

Nah, Anki is pretty confusing when you first start to use it and the fact that no one can agree on the "best" deck doesn't help.
>>
>>101081324
Damn, sorry to be a bother but when I try to flip it, it just says that it couldn't find the line between the question and the answer and that I have to adjust the template manually to switch the question and answer.
What exactly does that mean, are there tags for the question and answer or does that refer to the front of the card and back of the card respectively? I'm a little confused about the whole thing actually
>>
>>101079537
It's being used in place of と言う.
>>
>>101081427

Look at the input fields on the left. The stuff inside the {{ }} determines where on the card the content of the field goes. If the frontside (upper-left input field) shows something like {{Vocab Kana}} and the backside (bottom-left input field) shows something like {{Vocab Kanji}}, try exchanging those.
>>
>>101081509
Alright, I think I've got it now. Thanks a lot mate
>>
wwwwwww
>>
hey.
I'm japanese.
questions me?
>>
>>101082758

How do Japanese kids deal with kanji? Is it easy to learn them if you've read manga with furigana all your life?
>>
>>101082758
Prove it.
>>
>>101082758
この時期の好きなアニメは?
>>
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> 天然水。 ‏@Tennensui_khon

女「付き合ってください…!」

男「え?ああ、明日暇だし久々にパーティー組むか!付き合うよ!」

女「ゲームの中の話じゃなくて…その…」

男「なんだよ…?」

女「男女の仲…みたいな…意味で…///」

男(ダンジョンの中…?)
>>
Is something wrong with the Google Docs?
>>
>>101083786
You mean this?
>>
>>101058476
Download chapters of Yotsuba and give reading them a go.
>>
>>101083823
Yeah.
>>
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why? I can't post Japanese. umm...
I'm not good at English.
Sorry.

>>101082826
Japanese kids was studied from simple kanji.
from 7 years old.

>>101083031
I prove it. at the upload picture . ok?

>>101083036
I'm not watching this season animation.
But winter season watched "Non Non Biyori"
>>
Screw it, I would search this if this was answered in the Google Docs but I'll ask it here since the doc is fucked up.

How can you tell if something is in Kanji, Hiragana or Katakana? Do I have to memorize everything or is there a way to distinguish between them?
>>
We should have a rule where you can't post in this thread unless you at least know all the kana. Tired of retarded ass questions.
>>
>>101083966
Once you know all of the Katakana and Hiragana it becomes pretty easy. If it's Hiragana or Katakana you'll recognize it. If you don't recognize it, it's Kanji.

Anyway, of course you have to memorize it. What's the utility of knowing if something is Hiragana, Katakana or Kanji if you can't even read it?
>>
>>101083882
What do you think of the DJT?
>>
>>101083966
>How can you tell if something is in Kanji, Hiragana or Katakana?

You learn the piss-easy 100 or so kana, then you can tell that everything that isn't written in kana must logically be kanji.
>>
>>101083882
Through dick unity.
>>
>>101073870
I was in duolingo since day one (also learning German). It's been almost two years, I really do hope that Japanese gets released soon.
>>
>>101084284
Is duolingo any good? I'd really like to learn French at some point and was considering using it.
>>
>>101075838
I've been reading the word 目安 as めあん for the longest time... Could have sworn I've heard it being said like that too. But it was all in my imagination. It's めやす.
>>
>>101083882
ゲームを遊ぶか
>>
>>101084057
The reason why I came for here...

Real English is very important to studying English.
>>
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what is the man here saying? i am reading something along the lines of
``did you prepare a gift as a greeting to kinjou?``
>>
>>101084340
I found it quite enjoyable for German. You get vocab. lessons and real world practice, where you are given a text in your target language that you translate line by line, and you get points.

I think I stopped because, while German is cool, I couldn't think of anything I wanted to read in it, so I had no real motivation for learning it.
>>
>>101084450
Hah, just watch out not to get tainted with all of the "4chan english".

What boards have you been to so far?
>>
>>101084450
Well good luck. What do you think about learning English so far?
>>
>>101084461

kinjou = neighborhood
>>
>>101084436
yes. I like tetris and TouhouProject's STG.

you're japanese is good.
but,
game wo a so bu ka ? (na ni ka) game wo shi ma su ka ?
it's better.
>>
>>101084463
I can't see the rosetta stone method duolingo uses as being useful for japanese. It's just fundamentally different with too many ways to translate something. If subs and scanlations are any indication, most people aren't knowledgeable enough in english to render the nuance of even simple things and a computer judging you on that can only be worse.
>>
>>101075838
I feel like such an idiot when I realize stuff like that. I read 入手 as "にゅうて" for the longest time. I still sometimes accidentally read it that way when I'm tired or not paying attention. It also took me forever to realize that 土 and 士 were different kanji.
>>
>>101084696
>you're japanese is good.
>you're
Fitting in already.
>>
>>101084867
I know it's a common mistake but I would laugh so much if he picked that up from browsing /a/ too much.
>>
>>101084768
I honestly think you are right. It's not just the grammar being fundamentally different, but it would also have to teach a different writing system. At least with German/French/Spanish/Portuguese, you get languages that are either very similar, grammar-wise, to English, or at the very least use the same alphabet.

It's also one of the reasons Rosetta Stone sucks for Japanese. There are a lot of lessons, but all they teach you how to say in the first module is pretty much "cooking", "newspaper", "apple", etc.
>>
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>>101083882
Who is your favorite character in non non biyori?
>>
>>101084696
そうだ
ありがとう
>>
>>101084939
The only thing duolingo would have going for it is that the text-to-speech samples would sound like an actual person with flawless keigo. For french, they were useless muffled garbage.
>>
>>101084696
Do you play in Tetris Online?
>>
>>101085166
I remember in German it was good EXCEPT when there was a guy talking about the sandwiches and house pets.
>>
>>101084489
I'm visiting other 4chan board for example "otaku culture " and "international ".

>>10108455
ahh...
English is very hard...
Therefore I understand your feeling.
>>
>>101084461
In Japan you take a small gift to people in your neighbourhood/apartment building as a token of appreciation and to let them know you're moving in.

However, no one does it at all anymore.
>>
別のブラウザからなら日本語で書けるかな?

テスト
>>
>>101085309
英語を勉強するためにここに来たの?どっかに消えろ。
>>
>>101085607
dull those edges
>>
>>101082758
スペックは?
おすすめの観光スポットありますか?
なぜ一部の日本人は歴史を信じたがらないと思いますか?
>>
>>101085635
Is it called "Daily English Thread"?
>>
>>101085607 #
そう怒らないでよ。英語が得意になりたいんだ。

>>101085698 #
おすすめの観光スポットはやっぱり京都(kyoto)ですね。
歴史を信じたがらないのは、日本は宗教があまり復旧してないのが原因かもしれません。
>>
>>101085755
no, but it isn't called "Daily Japanese Thread (no English allowed)"
>>
Bought Anki for iOS yesterday. Figured that while $20 seems expensive for an app the amount I use Anki would make up for it.
And I was goddamn right, the app is great. Would wholly recommend if anybody is on the edge.
You can even import custom fonts,
>>
>>101086045
What the fuck is with people talking about the incredibly overpriced iOS anki app in the last 3-4 days? It's a total ripoff for a mobile app, and the android version is free.
>>
>>101086142
>>101086045
Oh goddamn, I just read through the thread and realized somebody else had already posted about it.
I must seem like a huge shill.
Fact is that this was entirely innocent recommendation.
>>
>>101085955
Okay. Whatever.

Be prepared for every conversation you will have with a Japanese person to be in English about how they can learn English.

It's even better when they start the conversation with "I wanna learn English so let's be friends!".

Yeah, nah.
>>
>>101086142
I guess because everyone bought the overpriced Apple iPhone
>>
>>101086216
Yeah, it sure was an entirely innocent recommendation, anki dev-kun
>>
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>>101086237
B-but I'm already so 上手 at everything that even anki recognizes it.

Speaking of which, with all the politeness, how do you recognize an actual compliment? Is it not sincere unless someone mentions their ancestors and composes a haiku about it right then and there?
>>
>>101086453

I'd rather have the anki devs posting here than the wanikani devs.
>>
>>101086492
The socially accepted way to accept a compliment is like this.

"No way! I'm still super まだまだ."
"No really, I don't know that much."
"No no no."
A few further denials.
Only after about 7 or 8 denials are you allowed to drop an "ありがとうございます”. Any earlier and you will be seen as an arrogant fool.
>>
>>101086514
Preach it, brother.
>>
>>101086591
The more you deny it the more you are asking for praise so your advice doesn't make much sense. Just say thanks and move on or else it turns into a fake-praise fest.
>>
>>101086591
>"No way! I'm still super まだまだ."
That made me cringe.
>>
Anki is "暗記"?
確かに漢字は暗記を必要とするよね。
でも、実は文字一つ一つに意味があるから、それを組み立てていけば意味も分かってくるよ。
>>
>>101086492
>how do you recognize an actual compliment?
If you can't tell, it's not genuine.
>>
>>101086722
That isn't how it works in Japanese silly.

You HAVE to deny it once or twice or else you come off sounding arrogant. Don't even try to say you're 上手 yourself or else you will be met with "自分でい言うんだ!”.

It's not like in English nor western culture where denying it is seen as asking for praise. It's really quite different.

>>101086732
Good. That was the desired effect.
>>
>>101086808
明らかになんかの恨みがあるからお前の言うこと真に受け取れない
正直、自分の経験の中ではそういうふざけた会話がないよ
確かにおせじを上手く受け流せるなら謙遜だと思われるだろうけど
しかし俺達は外人だから、完璧に日本人らしい答えを期待されてないだろう?
>>
So how did you guys learn your kana? By stokes of pronunciation?
>>
>>101086969

your japanese is good.
>>
>>101086969
>しかし俺達は外人だから、完璧に日本人らしい答えを期待されてないだろう?

Hilarious. I guess the Japanese are just too humble and polite and us mere gaijin can never understand them or their ways.
>>
>>101086969
恨みなんかないよ
事実言っているだけだ。
>>
>>101087133
前も似たような会話をしようとした気がする
あの時もお前は日本語についていろんなこと言ったのに、日本語で話そうとまったくしなかった
過去になんかのトラウマがあるかわからないけど、とにかくこのようなこと言ってると、ただ初心者の迷惑になると思うから、控えた方がいいと思う
>>
夕食
夕飯

ご飯
食事

昼飯
昼食

朝飯
朝食

マンション
アパート


夕方

Anyone has that feeling when you guess the word but it turns to be a synonym (knowing that the word has a synonym but still guess it wrong)? I sometimes slightly change to definition so that I can tell which word is which. I sure that most of you who have been learning Japanese longer than me seen worse though.
>>
>>101087233
へー、としか言えない…
>>
>>101087390
You're doing E>J then? What I do is just list all the words it could be. This makes the most sense, as presumably the point of doing the review is to ensure that you are able to call up words for a given concept on command, and you want to have a wide vocabulary.
>>
>>101087390
Read more japanese definitions. There's a nuance between native words and chinese loanwords that's hard to explain. And マンション is a type of アパート and not interchangeable.
>>
>>101087266
あの時って?何の事について言っているかわからないけど

>ただ初心者の迷惑になると思うから、控えた方がいいと思
まー、納得だな

ってかさ、どうして前から日本人のふりをしてたの?
>>
>>101087601
>Read more japanese definitions. There's a nuance between native words and chinese loanwords that's hard to explain.
While I agree that there's absolutely a difference, reading the Japanese definition is hardly a solution. More often than not, they're used in defining each other. The only realistic solution to sorting out the multitude of synonyms that exist in any language is to get familiar with them through repeated exposure. This builds collocation and word association, which are critical to becoming a well-rounded learner.
>>
>>101068909
What's wrong with KD ordering?
>>
>>101087663
>>101087133
>俺達は外人だから

してないだろボケ
>>
>>101087753
これら、
>>101086740
>>101085906
>>101085309
>>101085581
お前やろ?
>>
>>101087663
>ってかさ、どうして前から日本人のふりをしてたの?
どういうこと…
>あの時って?
なんか、英語で「皇帝に俺を使うかよ、外人だからって調子に乗るな」って人がいたんだけど、お前じゃなかったらすまん
しかし本日本語のレスに英語で答える人が多いのは、ただ日本語話せないって事なのかな
とにかくそのように捉えてる
>>
>>101087714
Nothing really, it's no worse than rtk for what it does. The complaint is an argument from ignorance. Some people don't understand that it's designed to learn the whole thing at once by building slowly from radicals you know and expect it to be in the most frequently used order, which would defeat the whole purpose of learning it this way.
>>
>>101087920
>しかし本日本語のレスに英語で答える人が多いのは、ただ日本語話せないって事なのかな
話せないんじゃなくて、ちょっとミスったら馬鹿にされるからなんじゃないかな

少なくとも俺はそうだが
>>
>>101087572
Thanks, I'll try that.

>>101087601
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/

Would a website like this do?
>>
>>101087992
まあね
このスレを練習台にして日本語を上手く話せるようになろうぜ
日本語で言おうともしないで、ただ他人の日本語にけちをつける人は無視でいいと思う
>>
>>101087992
あのな、自分のミスが指摘されるのが一番望ましいシチュエーションなんだぞ
そうじゃまきゃここにレスするのになんの得もない
>>
I've been curious for a while, how should westerners pronounce their names in japan?

Say my name was Eric Smith, do I pronounce it as I would normally, or japanese style? (eg. スミス エリク) . Would I say my surname, first name or both and in which order?
>>
>>101088057
Anything is better than glosses, which is what the 'definitions' in core and on rikai are. You can also switch rikai to sanseido mode by pressing O and copy the definition when you hover over words if you're using firefox.

The problem is that it only goes so far without regularly hearing what words people use and how they use them. Much is still a mystery to me, but when I started looking at who was using them and in what context, I started getting a better idea of the nuance.
>>
>>101086591
I'm American and I could never do this. Watching anime/dramas makes me so uncomfortable all the time because Japs are so beta (I don't like to use the word but I couldn't think of a better one). And this is coming from a NEET who rarely even leaves the house.
>>
>>101088274
ミスが指摘されるってことは別に問題じゃないんだけど、指摘の仕方がひどくて話したくなくなる

指摘の仕方がうまい人が少ないからね。
>>
>>101088274
添削貰いたいならlang8の方がいいと思うけど
ここはそういうのにあんまり向いてないと思う
それに、匿名だから、誰を信じるべきかまったくわからない
>>
>>101088336
Unless your name is Johnny and you're the best goddamn fiddler there's ever been, you already do this or it's proof that you don't know shit about what you're talking about. Anyone remotely skilled at anything knows what real skill is and how much further they have to go.

A master of japanese would say that he knows nothing at all and convince a native speaker that they've been speaking english the whole time, complimenting how clear his L's and R's are.
>>
How do I know if its "fu" or "hu"
>>
>>101088294
In my beginning Japanese class, they had us say them in reverse order, but this is the only time I've ever seen it done. First last, just like in English.
>>
>>101088294
You can get away with pronouncing it normally, but if you don't want to be a faggot, the katakana pronunciation in western order works and doesn't make the other person feel stupid.
You obviously look foreign, so they will understand what you mean.
Going beyond either of those two is just plain weird.
>>
>>101088591
It's a bilabial fricative, aka neither.
>>
>>101088294

Everyone in Japan says western names in western order.
>>
>>101088571
>Unless your name is Johnny and you're the best goddamn fiddler there's ever been
Ha, I love that.

I guess I see your point. I am fairly modest but I just think the Japanese go to the extreme. The best thing about not being born in Japan is you aren't forced into following their rules.
>>
>>101088651
>bilabial fricative

da fuq
>>
>>101088745
I think we need to find the DET
>>
>>101088656

Makes me feel kind of inconsiderate for switching Japanese names around in English, actually.
>>
>>101088745
Press your lips together and blow. Or Google.
>>
>>101088466
ひどいこと言われたら落ち込むの当然だよね
でも、他国を勉強するのは、いっぱい失敗を重ねるという事だ
しかたないから、恐れずに喋って、そのうち自信がついて、指摘をありがたく思うようになる
>>
>>101087867
wait.
that is me.
>>
>>101088591
'fu' has an initial 'start' that's slightly different and noticeable, I wouldn't say that everyone pronounces it like that though, the same way a lot of Japanese people pronounce the R almost fully like an L.
>>
>>101088591
It's always neither. Try emulating the fu sound without using your teeth, just blowing trough your lips. That's ふ.

Make sure you actually listen to the sound said by Japanese native speakers so you don't mess it up.
>>
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>>101088784
>Press your lips together and blow

So, ふ sounds like a whistle? No one will get this joke.
>>
頼む
>>
>>101089100
どうした、アノン君!?
>>
>>101088591
Here, my accent is a little thick, but at least I have the ふ right.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mqa3jw1Nfb
>>
>>101089057
The reference was intentional on my part. It's hardly an obscure one.
>>
>>101089240
>It's hardly an obscure one

*tips fedora*
>>
>>101089372
Speaking of this phenomenon, have anyone else realized how many common knowledge cultural references there are that you just aren't aware of in japanese?
>>
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>>101069252
>knowing the readings doesn't help you read
>>
>>101086142
I'll never pay that much for an app when it's free on android. If it was at most $10 I might consider it supporting the guy.
>>
>>101089783
Readings alone are meaningless and a bad way to learn a language. It's like learning word particles in english before you know the language in the first place. "con" "junction". So useful. Not to mention different readings are actually completely different words that just happen to share a vaguely similar meaning and were put under the same kanji by some scribe who got a boner from chinese.

Seriously, knowing the reading and having an idea of what a compound might mean is in no way the same thing as knowing what the word itself means. It's the way people learn dead languages, not ones that are still spoken by 100,000,000 people.
>>
>>101090104
What the fuck do readings have to do with the meaning? Nothing. The reading is how you read it. You need to know the onyomi to read most of the compounds or whatever and you need the kunyomi at least for verbs, else the furigana will just confuse you, especially when you're starting and your grasp on conjugation is shaky.

If your brain doesn't protest trying to read sentences in which every significant word is unreadable and you're also fine with being unable to make a connection between spoken japanese and written japanese, good for you, but that's not the way to learn a language spoken by 100,000,000 people.
>>
>>101090544
>furigana
okurigana obviously.
>>
>>101089783
Roughly translates to "Just as planned..."
>>
So, like, why is the IRC so dead?
>>
>>101090544
I should add that all living languages are learned by first learning how to pronounce and write words, and THEN learning the meaning of those words, not the other way around. It's both the natural way and the academically-encouraged way. It's the reason japanese children start with kana and furigana and learn the kanji's readings as they learn to write it. It's the reason they taught you how to READ in school instead of just making you memorize the letters of the alphabet and shoving dictionaries full of unreadable words down your throat.
>>
>>101090544
We're looking at this two different ways. I see it as words having meaning independent of how they are written. You aren't leaning yomi, or at least shouldn't be looking at it that way. You're learning words. The kanji just may incidentally represent something close to the the meaning of the word itself if you're lucky. This is especially true of native words with okurigana.

>>101090988
Nevermind, maybe we are in line. It's just that when anyone talks about readings, it seems like they are unaware of the spoken component coming first and kanji only have a tenuous link to words pronunciation and meaning.
>>
In a sentence like 混みあう土日だけ手伝っているのかもしれない this だけ is saying it's only packed on weekends right? So to say to only want help on a packed weekend it would have to follow 手伝 right?
>>
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Please give me your phone numbers, I don't have any classmates.
>>
>>101091297
I think we more or less agree. The reading is usually just a way for the meaning to anchor itself into your brain.

In fact, you can read and pronounce a word wrong, that's not a problem if you don't care about spoken comprehension.
I still don't know how to correctly pronounce half the english words, but I do have a way of reading and pronouncing the latin alphabet in general, and using that I can easily memorize english words (or german words, or japanese words in romaji, or any other language using the latin script.) It's like japanese people learning foreign words through katakana. The pronunciation is very approximative, but they can probably memorize it better that way.
>>
>>101091633
You didn't use the dialogue above and I don't give my 番号 out unless you've got a pooper I'd stick my sharpie in.
>>
>>101091633
ちゃんと日本語で聞けよ!

日本語じゃないと教えん!
>>
>>101091806
>>101091728
でんわばんごうはなんですか。
Please, classmates.
>>
>>101091573
It refers to when s/he helps, which is only on weekends. The clause indicates weekends are always packed, which is -only- when they help.
>>
>>101091573
It's saying the person may only be helping on the weekends, because that's when there's a lot of people.
混みあう土日に手伝っているだけなのかもしれない would be "He/she might just be helping out on saturday and sunday.

You could remove 混みあう and the sentence wouldn't change that much, in either case.
>>
>>101091887
田中圭子です。電話番号は、090ー5767ー8829です。いつでもいいから、電話してね^^
>>
>>101092214
>18/女/東京
>>
>>101091887
ごめん、貧乏ですから、携帯がありません。桂子さんは腐女子だから、番号を上げるかもしれません。
>>
乙女
女の子
少女

All these words describe young girls, what's the difference between them?
>>
>>101092583
女の子 and 少女 are pretty much the same. Otome sounds a bit fancier. Like saying maiden instead of girl.
>>
>>101092583
女の子 is simply "girl". It can also be used for youngish women.

少女 is for girls who are between 7-16. "Young girl".

乙女 means girl, but can refer specifically to an unmarried girl or a girl who hasn't had sex.

In everyday life you will most likely hear 女の子 or 少女
>>
>>101092722
I think you mean 女性 you fucking masochist misogynist of the patriarchy
>>
>>101092912
Wh... what now?
>>
>蛇に睨まれた蛙ならぬ、犬と猫がいた。
What is the ならぬ here for? Is it supposed to mean that MC couldn't help but compare the dog/cat to a snake staring down a frog?
>>
>>101092912
More like 女子.
>>
>>101093073
After being called 女 and 女の子 for 3000 years, it's a loaded word.
>>
>>101092722
What about 女性?
>>
>>101093191
>>101093182
>>101092912
Is this a ruse?
>>
>>101093147
蛇に睨まれた蛙 is "deer in the headlights", and ~ならぬ is "not ~". "here was no deer in the headlights, but a cat and a dog." Without some context, it's hard to tell why he brought up the phrase (it's an idiom), but that's the meaning.
>>
>>101093211
女性 just means female or woman.
>>
>>101093191
The loaded words would be 夫人, 婦人 and 婦女子
>>
>>101093243
It's the euphemism treadmill. Did you also know that 少年 is a neologism to replace the original 若衆?
>>
>>101093280
Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. When those old forms come up, I never know how to interpret them.
>>
>>101093363
若衆 means fagboi or something right
>>
How do you say "check your privilege" in japanese?
>>
>>101093558
Well _nowadays_ it does.
>>
>>101093781
言わない
>>
>>101093781
特権をチェックして
>>
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>>101093558
It's a lot of things, but that's one of them. It's more like the edo period word for twink if you want to get specific. Has to do with dressing younger than you are and kabuki shit and prostitution, but originally it was just 'teenager'. It's also where the オカマ head scarf thing came from.
>>
>>101093781
特権の程を知れ!
>>
>>101061597
it's not free on iphones. Apple fanbase are retarded so they regularly get charged for stuff that's free on android.
>>
衆道
若衆道
若道
若色
少年愛嗜好
ショタコン

Which is the best translation for pederasty?
>>
>>101087714
>>101087921
What's wrong is that you don't learn common as fuck kanji until 1200+. Things like plate, left/right, clothes, etc.
>>
Are you a 外人 or a 害人?
>>
>>101094787
What are you talking about? You learn a lot of "common as fuck" kanji in the first few hundred.
>>
>>101094787
No wonder you didn't get it, given your reading comprehension.

>Some people don't understand that it's designed to learn the whole thing at once by building slowly from radicals you know and expect it to be in the most frequently used order, which would defeat the whole purpose of learning it this way.
>>
>>101094900
南蛮人 represent
>>
>>101091887
911
>>
>>101094509
若衆道 is a little dated and poetic but nothing else makes the distinction of sexual maturity. ショタコン carries the connotation that you might not be into 3D (not that the average person knows the term and can make that distinction), but doesn't specify if there's grass on the field, so to speak.

Looking to go teach english and do some tutoring on the side, but don't want people to get the wrong idea? You're out of luck ever since we went over there and brought them shame and pants.
>>
>>101094900
俺は我意人
>>
>>101094933
No, YOU don't get it. What's the point in doing a retarded as fuck order if you need to go through all of it before you can do anything? Obviously that's an exaggeration, but a bad order just means you'll have to wait longer to actually put it to use or you'll be looking up simple kanji because KD decided you shouldn't know it yet.
>>
>>101094900
ゲイ人
>>
So I've gone through a little over 1000 kanji and I've been thinking about using RTK to try and learn to write them. What would be the best way to use it, just go through or write some readings into the book or what?
>>
>>101095067
So there's basically no proper way to introduce oneself as a boylover who is not into elementary school kids? For shame.

Err, not that I was planning to introduce myself. Just needed that for research purposes.
>>
Why is さ sometimes written differently?
>>
>>101095376
Why is g sometimes written differently?
>>
>>101095176
It's the fastest way to learn to recognize minute differences in kanji as well as write them. And it's not like it kills the man to reschedule some cards and learn a few radicals out of the proscribed order. Core, even the optimized ones, are far worse at presenting things in a useful order and no one who can read the anki manual seems to have a problem.
>>
>>101095588
Or, y'know, you can just learn to write kanji by their radicals in a useful order. The only thing KD does is group them in a stupid order and give you a retarded mnemonic.
>>
>>101095176
>What's the point in doing a retarded as fuck order if you need to go through all of it before you can do anything?
The point is that's it's easier to learn like this, supposedly. I don't know if that claim is true or not (it sort of makes sense, but the author doesn't have any academic background) but that's why it's like this.

>a bad order just means you'll have to wait longer to actually put it to use
You're not supposed to put it to use before you're finished, is that such a difficult concept?

Also the irony is that shit like the joyou kanji and vocabulary lists supposedly introduce you to the common kanji and terms, but actually leave out many words and expressions in common use because they decided you shouldn't know them yet, and teach you some terms you will never use or care about because they pop up a lot in the newspapers or at business meetings.
You can finish any of the "Core X000" vocabulary lists and still miss many words that would be common knowledge among elementary schoolers and adults alike, what the fuck is that shit?
>>
>>101070561
This is why I live alone.
>>
>>101095736
>You're not supposed to put it to use before you're finished, is that such a difficult concept?
No it's not difficult at all, it's just horrible. Is that difficult to understand? If all you do is reps you're not going to get anywhere. You need to put what you learn to use.
>>
>>101070561
You've got to be kidding
>>
>>101095289
That kind of research where there's an impressionable high school boy who's unsure of himself and clearly needs guidance but it's competing your long-neglected animal nature and hey, you're still young and inexperienced yourself so you begin the slow circular dance of implication and innuendo akin to stalking a hind though the misty forest, ever so slowly approaching, judging whether your affections are returned in a way that you can only do through the medium of japanese, speaking affirmations, reaching for that overlarge hand on such a slender wrist, inching closer to the moment where you can speak not with words, but with action and burn that afternoon at your place after being caught in a downpour into your memory forever?

Good luck with your research
>>
>>101095940
>Why won't this square peg fit it into this round hole? What kind of shitty shape is this? If it has corners it can't fit anywhere!
>>
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>>101096153
Precisely.
>>
>>101096217
So you have nothing to really say then? Okay.
>>
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How do I translate it?

P is a integer, n is a optional (?) natural number.
Prove that ◯◯◯ is divisible for P.

Is it accurate?
>>
>>101095685
What order is useful? It's not by grade and it's definitely not the order I come across them.
>>
>>101094509
ペドって言ったら伝わるよ
>>
Hey guys, so I've been considering learning japanese for a while. However, before now it was really just as a hobby, but i
realized I could potentially get a job doing subbing/translating etc. Does anyone know if this would be a reasonable job? I'm unemployed atm.
>>
>>101096632
I think it is saying that n is an arbitrary natural number and p is a prime number.
>>
>>101096632
任意 is arbitrary, any n in N.
>>
>>101096825
yes, you can start translating VNs, I heard VN translators earn a lot of money
>>
>>101096825
>>101096896
You should start by doing a fan translation to get your name up there.

Begin a project and hype it up a lot, then make sure to drop it when you get to around 70-80% complete. You'll be pretty well known in the VN scene by then so should be easy getting a job.
>>
>>101096860
>>101096867
I see, it makes sense.
Now how I solve it?
Should I use binomial theorem?
>>
>>101096825
Step 1) Find some shitty obscure fetish fuel doujin game
Step 2) Go to communities with a high concentration of sick fucks with plenty of disposable money, like furries, and praise it to high heavens
Step 3) Offer to translate it for a small fee

You can make a living off of this, I'm pretty sure.
>>
>>101097049
then why there is no obscure fetish fuel doujin game translated?
>>
>>101096825
You won't be good enough to translate professionally for at least a few years, more if it's more complicated than a user manual. Assuming you're a native english speaker, being extremely well read and maybe having a degree in english lit would be a must to put you ahead of unpaid amateurs who can't into nuance to save their life.

Otherwise, >>101097049 is your best bet for cash. kemonononi might have someone willing to pay, but it's mostly whiny bitches screaming for a translation like it's owed tothem.
>>
>>101097092
It's all sitting on some neckbeard's hard drive never to see the light of day.
>>
>>101097038
Yes. Then see that every summand is divisible by p.
>>
>>101097092
>pay big bucks for a VN translation
>release it publicly for free

Why would anyone ever do that?
>>
>>101097031
Fucking Majikoi
>>
>>101097092
I don't know, but people weren't auctioning off shitty scribbles of a pregnant Lisa Simpson 10 or an inflated Bugs Bunny years ago either.
>>
>>101097184
>having a degree in english lit
Is this bait?
>>
>>101097340
derp
>people weren't auctioning off shitty scribbles of a pregnant Lisa Simpson or an inflated Bugs Bunny 10 years ago
I need to stop adding in the middle of sentences.
>>
>>101097372
For translation, it's the only degree that's really relevant. If you want to prove you can read Japanese, jlpt or time in the country are worth more than a Japanese degree.
>>
>>101097372
To translate well, you have to be at least as smart as the person who wrote it or crafty enough to hide that you aren't to people who can check your work. Assuming you have a master's in english, you're one or both.

The translator of Girl by the Sea seemed to think that "I don't care" is a perfectly acceptable translation of それはご自由に and I want to hunt him down and choke him.
>>
>>101097728
You should probably stay away from horriblesubs or you might shit blood. Last Space Dandy you can clearly hear dandy saying ベービ and not to be one and the fuck does the sub say? "Stop being so scared"
>>
>>101097728
but those translations make me feel prettier than EOPs
>>
>>101097635
For translation all that matters is speed and accuracy. An English Lit degree doesn't mean shit except icing on the cake
>>
That's all well and good if you already have an English degree, but getting one with the purpose of becoming a translator doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. Is anyone here actually talking from experience or just making shit up.
>>
>>101097635
While i agree that a japanese degree's useless
>JLPT
hahahahahhahahahaha
thats adorable

Shockingly enough, all they give a shit about is your portfolio.
>>
>>101098082
>implying the japs don't consider JLPT a prove that you can read japanese
>>
>>101098065
So long as you can show that you can translate well, it doesn't really matter what your degree is.

Process for me was send in resume with translated samples, get sent back article to translate as a test, didn't fuck it up so got hired.

Didn't have any relevant work experience so other than actually being able to translate, everything on your resume means jack shit
>>
>>101097988
Not to start a circlejerk, but how do the plebs rationalize reading and watching character driven media when they don't even know the characters are actually saying? The only time I know I'm not missing anything is reading Murakami because he writes the shit in english first and it shows even before a translator gets to it. Also Rubin is pretty god-tier.
>>
>>101098199
Yup, pretty much.
All they care about is kanken 2 or better
>>
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Which way of handwriting lower-case kana is preferable?

Please excuse the mouse drawing.
>>
>>101097728
I think it's because most of the entry-level japanese media has such worthless writing, translators started to think that their only duty is getting the general meaning across.
Much of the target audience doesn't give a shit about quality of the writing, they just want to know what the fuck is going on in the new Naruto chapter as soon as possible, so they heap praise on those translators and encourage that kind of thinking.
>>
>>101098251
based retard
>>
>>101098218
For me I just watched stuff with lots of boobs or fighting or physical comedy, makes the talky parts less relevant and you still pick things up.
>>
>>101098269
on paper with boxes, bottom
on normal paper, top
>>
>>101098269
Top one, mainly because the bottom お makes me want to murder you in your sleep
>>
>>101098269
「お兄ちゃん」を耳元でささやいてほしい
>>
>>101098205
I see, that's sort of what I figured to be honest, but it's good to have confirmation.
>>
>>101098433
其れは一寸違う
俺様のちんちんを耳元で近づいて欲しいだね?
>>
お前らはいつクロゼットの中から出るのかしら
>>
一 is the shittiest kanji. It doesn't even register as a character in my head when I read over it, just as a blank line. We should all just use 壱 instead.
>>
>>101098642
入ってはいいホモ達、クロゼットは凄く楽しい
>>
>>101098286
So you're saying if Naruto was written like the insufferable retard that he actually talks like, no one over the age of 12 would touch it? Now you have me wanting to turn trash into a philosophical masterpiece just to troll newfags.

>Yeah Magical Kawaii Girl Aiko is like some crazy high level shit in japanese. It might be years before you can understand it.
>>
>>101098082
>how to show you know nothing in just one post!
>>
>>101098684
>壱
>not 壹
look at this simplified faggot
>>
>>101098642
こっちおいでお兄ちゃん
いいもの見せてあげる
>>
>>101098803
>お兄ちゃん
俺は女子だけどw
>>
>>101098064
Well, I assumed he was talking about translating actual books or other material for entertainment. Which is of course, not what the vast majority of translation is, but as a goal it makes sense.

>>101098082
I assumed >>101097372 was implying that a Japanese degree was somehow more relevant. My only intention was to say that it was not. I don't know why you took that as "JLPT is really important guys and it's all that matters." If you don't have a portfolio (which you won't, at the start) and you want basic translation work (which would be garbage like patents and contracts), an English degree and N1 certification will mean something to a potential contractor.

Not sure why people are so eager to insult others over things they didn't even say.
>>
>>101098852
え、じゃあ、なんで「俺」を使うの?
>>
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>>101098874
>Not sure why people are so eager to insult others over things they didn't even say.
I'm on 4chan, where are you?
>>
>>101098926
女が俺を使うのがなにが悪いんだよ
CISクズ野郎は、ちゃんと権利を確認しろ
>>
Here's a useful expression for you, DJT:

彼らは息がぴたりと合っている。
>>
>>101099081
>のは
押し間違えた
>>
>>101099063
4chan is what you make of it. There's a difference between being crude or holding an unpopular opinion vs putting words in others' mouths. But hey, post how you like. That's what makes this place great.
>>
私の伝記
今日は、『ミ』の書き方を忘れた。
恥ずかしいでした。
>>
>>101099081
何言ってるのかよくわからないけど、つまりは、性同一性障害ってことなのかな?
特に問題はないけど、「俺」を使う女子は変な目で見られるので、注意してね
>>
>>101099155
It's more the mix of anonymity, english as a third language, autism, and frustration at learning japanese that makes posts like that unsurprising. It beats any other place as a crucible for finding the truth in what is good and what works in spite of all that and I wouldn't have it any other way.
>>
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>>101098286
It won't be long before this becomes the new standard for translations.
>>
>>101099081
>権利
Use 特権 as in 特権階級, 権利 is for human rights and such.
>>
>>101099226
DJTへようこそ
日記=diary
もしくはブログ=blog
×恥ずかしいでした
〇恥ずかしかったです
明日の日記を楽しみにしてます
>>
How do I become a teacher in Japan?
>>
>>101099514
Thanks. I will use this to further improve my funposting in the future.
>>
>>101099474
That character looks like a genuine retard, maybe that's why no one saw anything wrong with the dialog.
>>
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>>101099226
>恥ずかしいでした
>>
>>101099578
Short term or long term?

Short term, be a native english speaker who is a US citizen and theoretically under 35 and join the JET program. You get overpaid to do talk to kids about manga and play soccer.
Or you can be underpaid to work in a creepy english school.

Otherwise for the long term, you have to have a degree from a top university in the field you wish to teach, proof of native level japanese proficiency, and be ready to bend your western will to their retarded ways. Jobs are scarce and there's plenty of more qualified natives.
>>
>>101099862
I wouldn't call 3.5m yen a year underpaid. That's garbage. Though I guess if you live in the country rent won't hardly cost you anything.
>>
>>101099960
>3.5m yen a year underpaid.
Whoops, meant overpaid. But yeah, that's shit money. I guess if all you have is a liberal arts degree, it's ok.
>>
>>101099578
Can I not teach english if I'm not american? My english level is about fine. My Japanese level is JLPT 1-2 as well. I'm thinking about passing TOEIC or something similar to that.
>>
>>101099862
Can I not teach english if I'm not american? My english level is about fine. My Japanese level is JLPT 1-2 as well. I'm thinking about passing TOEIC or something similar to that.
>>
>>101100006
Depending on the placement, you might not even pay rent. But you don't pay for the trip there, or much if any of all the documentation and legal mumbo jumbo.

Considering starting teacher salary is less than that in the US and you do half the work of a full time teacher, it's pretty good. You've also been deluded by credit debt and consumeristjew propaganda into thinking it's a small sum.
>>
>>101100369
If anything, I've been deluded by the fact that an engineering degree has internships that pay (considerably) more than that. Dual degree is the way to go.
>>
もうすぐ終わりだね
>>
>>101100448
You missed the part where all you do is speak english and write lesson plans. In Japan. The next best thing is volunteer organic farming where you learn to do things the hard way in exchange for food and a futon. I'm personally more intrigued by that because I like food and being outdoors/
>>
>>101100212
From what I've read, they usually only want native English speakers. And I think you need a bachelor's degree for most of them.
>>
How do I become a Japanese teacher in Japan?
>>
>>101101278
Cram school, entrance exams, get into Toudai or Keio or somewhere fancy, kiss ass and remember people's names.
>>
>>101100617
You mean WOOFF? Or whatever the abbreviation was. My friend did that over a summer, he enjoyed it.

I guess if it's what you like, do whatever. But frankly I'd rather get a job in Japan that pays more than peanuts, and besides, I haven't heard the best things about job satisfaction doing JET (though of course the experiences vary wildly)
>>
What is 身体がもたん? Rikaichan has failed me.
>>
>>101101872
もたん=持たない
>>
>>101101944
So does it mean like my body can't take it sort of meaning? Like my body can't hold(take) it
>>
>>101102079
Yeah more or less
http://home.alc.co.jp/db/owa/s_htsrv_rep4?num_in=1238&char_in=02&char2_in=ka
>>
>>101101619
I could see how it would be terribly alienating if you didn't know the language or don't have the balls embarrass someone when they try to get you do go beyond what is reasonably expected of you, but that's what people get for treating a cultural exchange program as either a vacation or an actual job.

Either way, it's a comfortable amount of money considering what you have to do. I could care less what I get paid as long as I truly enjoy it. Had an absolutely crazy position that made me hate myself and gave it up because I didn't want to be dead inside like everyone else doing it.
>>
Should I make a new deck for new words I see/hear everyday in anime, songs, shows, 2ch and so on?
>>
I'm sure there is a rule for this and I just can't think of it but how exactly do you determine the new verb when changing it with lets say ~ました for example.
I've come across the following,
1. ある -> ありました
2. ねる -> ねました
I'm a little confused as I don't see why it stays in 1 but changes in 2.
>>
>>101102807
Have you tried reading a textbook, or anything that describes verb conjugation in any way?
>>
>>101102850
I read it somewhere but I totally forgot.
>>
>>101102807
>五段動詞
>一段動詞
or v5 and v1 if you're using rikai and something stupid and confusing if you aren't

>>101102921
oh, you're a troll.
>>
>>101102965
No I was serious.
That rings a bell though



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