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>main villain wants to converge all timelines/human consciousness into one, which will destroy all reality or something

What's the most overdone anime villain motivation?
>>
>>101004157
Avenging a loved one, of course.
>>
>humanity is evil/sucks and deserves to die
Fuck every single goddamn villian who thinks this.
Just because one person or a group of asshole or your government sucks doesn't mean EVERY SINGLE FUCKING HUMAN is evil
That grandma is fucking evil, isn't she? No so fuck you you goddamn piece of shit.
>>
> I just wanna kill everyone because fuck it why not its part of my nature
>>
>>101004244
calm down son
>>
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>>101004244
>>
>>101004244
>humanity is evil/sucks and deserves to die

But that's true.
>inb4 edgy
>>
I WILL CREATE A SOCIAL DARWINIST UTOPIA
>>
>>101004157

Attaining Godhood
>>
>I'm bored so meh
or
>only the strongest deserve to live, if you can't beat me, then knewl down before me and die
>>
>>101004244
I agree and it's not even just a villain thing. e.g. misanthropy.
>>
Attaining energy necessary to prevent the death of the universe
>>
>>101004417
Edgy
>>
daddy issues
>>
>>101004418
Fuck this motherfucker, especially.
Though the world he lives in was meant to be broken and only Pain had the right idea to reform but the writing got fucked somewhere along the line for edgy bullshit.
>>
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>I hate this world
>>
Taking away free will to "save" humanity.
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>>101004244
To be fair, many grannies are pretty darn wicked
>>
>because superior being
Never good, ever
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>i do evil things so mankind will not have to suffer at the hands of a far greater evil
>>
>>101004417
And I agree.
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>>101004675
It worked pretty well with TTGL imo
>>
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>>101004244

Never trust Obaa-chan.
>>
>>101004708
Humanity is naive, retarded, bias, judgmental, prejudice and overall fucking stupid, but not evil.

We just try to do our best and sometimes get fucked due to bad decisions that we think are the best idea/solution.

I don't see how anyone could even think that humanity is evil by any possible means.
>>
>>101004479
What's wrong with being bored?

It shows how truly depraved and heartless they really are when they'll starting fucking up the entire universe just because they have nothing better to do.
>>
>>101004244
>villian
Opinion invalidated.
>>
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>>101004417
>>
>>101004801
Nothing wrong with being bored, there's a quote somewhere that says that the source of all evil comes from boredom and I'm included to agree.

You don't decide to rape someone if you aren't bored. imo, it's just poor writing where the villain just does it because he has nothing else to do, it has no personal goal to him.
>>
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Revenge.
>>
>muh father
>>
>>101004826
>mistakes invalidate opinion
Being autistic invalidates you invalidation.

>>101004915
Revenge is pretty fucking sweet, though it's how revenge is done that is wrong.
>>
>>101004915
This.
>muh fukushuu
>>
Misunderstood villain.
>>
>>101004797
I just want to point that in plenty of works humanity actually does deserve to die even if they're being exaggerated just to be edgy.
>>
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>>101004915
>implying revenge isn't the best motive when done right
>>
>my parents were killed right in front of me so now I want everyone to die
>>
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>>101004801
I love this fucker so much, because he felt so real. like it was an accurate depiction of a legitimately depressed person lashing out, and then trying to sound all grandiose with 2deep4u motives.
>>
>I want more power
>>
>>101005089
The novel showed more how revenge just destroys the soul when he barely had anything worth living for.
>>
there are only so many villian tropes that writers can choose from, eventually you're gonna run out. That's why, after a while, every villian seems cliché.
>>
>>101005067
That's mostly because they're either curious or sadistic motherfucking bastards.

>>101005158
>I want to be immortal
>>
>>101004970
>invalidates you invalidation
>you

Your invalidation of his invalidation has just been invailidated.
>>
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>>101005263
Then you make it personal without having it relied on power, status or money and it does wonders.
>>
>>101005107

Same. I liked him because of how petty and naive and immature his reasoning was. He came off as a totally legit asshole.
>>
>>101005194
Well yeah. The novel made the Count a lot less antagonistic. Anime made it so that he was still focused on revenge till the very end.
>>
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we need an /a/ villain ranking chart.
>>
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World Peace.
>>
>>101005437
>Ozymandias
>Lets just kill millions of people and blame it on the blue guy, that'll totally stop people from cold-warring the shit outta each other
Pretty bloody stupid for a genius.
>>
Nihilism taken to a sadistic extreme. Using suffering and loss to mock the value others place on life, i.e "because I personally find evil to be entertaining."

There are a lot of villains who use this line of thinking, though off the top of my head no anime villains really come to mind. They tend to be more into pure angst/unfocused revenge. But those kind of motives have already been mentioned here.
>>
>>101005437
>>101005437
I really like "Mid Tier" villains actually. Especially if it's a cosmic horror situation where a normal character is trapped in that state, aware what's going on and wanting to stop it but not having the capabilities.
>>
>>101005580
>blame it on the blue guy
Read the graphic novel, pleb.
>>
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>I love the protagonist
>Therefore I will kill his entire family

/a/ villain logic
>>
>I want to create a new world order with only special people like me who are ubermensch
>I was bullied in the past, so revenge
>I want to be God
>>
>>101005437
Does Griffith go into Elder God Tier?
>>
>>101005717
No, it's an extremely stupid and short sighted plan that will blow up in his face.
>>
>>101005737
To be fair, that's the new Joker's logic, too.
I hate what they did to him.
>>
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>>101005313
i invalidated ur mom with my dick last night
>>101005343
absolutely, if Shakespeare proved anything, villains who develop a personal relationship with another character at some point in a story's timeline, the capacity for emotional attachment is much higher, making a story far more stimulating. Faceless villains with no relationships have a greater tendency to be flat, and even if their motives are broadcasted, they seem fake, contrived or dehumanized.
>>
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>We're doing it to help you
>>
>>101005737
>I love the protagonist
>the protagonist insists that I don't exist
>I'll prove I exist by killing his family and resurrecting them
>>
>>101005665
That actually sounds cool.
>>
>>101005786
I think he's talking about how he blames the explosion on aliens in the novel and in the movie they have him blame Manhattan.
>>
>Villain is treated badly as a child due to powers or whatever
>Eventually just snaps
>YOU WANT ME TO BE EVIL? FINE I'LL BE EVIL AND DESTROY ALL OF REALITY
>Story portrays villain as sympathetic

Screw that shit. Yeah, you had a bad past and it didn't help you, but that DOES NOT give you the right to destroy everything. As far as I'm concerned, the moment a villain takes that step, he/she stops being sympathetic.
>>
>>101004729
>imo

Learn how to spell.
>>
>>101005343
What was her problem again? I'm pretty sure she was just batshit insane.

>>101005437
I don't like to classify villains like that. Sometimes, villains who are evil for the sake of evil can set up a nice contrast. The whole
>misunderstood villain
or
>villain is actually a good guy
shit is getting pretty cliched and seeing some stories bend over backwards to shoehorn that in is really silly.
>>
>>101005737
Yasu isn't the villain though.
>>
>>101005839
To be fair everything in TTGL was cliche. They just did the cliche really fucking well.
>>
>>101005785
Not really. Gut's motive is to get off the fucking boat and I think we can all hop on that bandwagon.
>>
>>101005785
Hmm, I love Griffith as a character, but his "villainous" motivations (as we know them) can be summed up with one word: ambition. So technically according to that chart, he'd be shit tier.

He's never really gone into detail about what he wants to actually DO with the kingdom he covets, just that he wanted to rule his own kingdom. He's seen as the messiah by many and has a talent for bringing people together using his fierce charisma. It remains to be seen what becomes of him once his initial goal has been reached.
>>
>>101006078
>They just did the cliche really fucking well.
That's a matter of personal opinion.
Personally, I found it to fall apart by the ending.
>>
>>101005437
>Elder God Tier
Othinus
>Great Tier
Fiamma of the Right, Aleister Crowley, Kihara Gensei, Terra of the Left
>High Tier
Sherry Cromwell, Vento of the Front
>Mid Tier
Ridovia Lorenzetti, Biagio Busoni, Yakumi Hisako
>Meh Tier
Acqua of the Back, Oriana Thomson
>Shit Tier
Accelerator, Aurelous Izzard
>>
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>>101005839
Antispirals didn't do it for anyone but their own race, they just wanted the universe to persist so they could keep living. And if villains can't be altruistic, that removes a lot of opportunity for interesting storytelling. Sure it's cliché, but villains doing something for what they perceive as the greater good is such a general idea that it can't possibly be good or bad. Please tell me what you consider to be a well done villain.
>>101006033
>imo: in my opinion
>>
I guess I should be glad that we don't have a lot of 'disillusioned former hero' villains in anime/manga. The only one I can even think of at the moment is Lord Genome, and technically he was coerced, not simply disillusioned.
>>
>>101006092
Well, he allied himself with evil incarnate to accomplish his ambition, so I'm guessing he's just going to be evil.
>>
>>101005437
Is this a troll? Great and shit tier have a 90% overlap.
>>
>People with superpowers are superior! Death to normals!

Just because you give a character racist values doesn't mean your shitty story has somehow become a deep social commentary.
>>
>>101006305
Except if a gay guy writes it, of course.
>>
>>101006184
Please tell me that was moot.
>>
>>101006305
>People with powerlevels are superior! Death to normalfags!
>>
>>101005437
Where would this guy fall in this spectrum?
>>
>>101005786
novel he creates fake aliens as an enemy of earth thus uniting humanity against an external threat

the movie went all retard mode and made him blame manhattan, which is stupid considering that since everyone knows manhattans powers they would know they stand no fucking chance
>>
>>101004551
Somewhere being when Sasuke survived the Zabuza arc.

He should've died right there and the show would've been better for it.
>>
>>101006465
Mid Tier.

How about you read the chart you scumbag.
>>
>>101006520
>Kotomine
>retaliating against misdeeds

Do you even read FSN?
>>
>>101006305
I remembered the opposite during one of the arcs in Zettai Karen Children.
>>
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>People suffer by living
>So if all life were to end all suffering would end
>>
>>101004910
"Idle hands are the Devil's workshop."
>>
>>101006465
Great and/or shit.

>>101006520
He's not some borderline sentient non-human lifeform scifi bullshit. He's just a dick.
>>
>>101005717
It actually works well in the movie as well as the graphic novel, though the graphic novel did it better imo, because it gave mourning to the entire human race who was shocked and in need to help each other rather than have them arm guns at each other. Then with Manhattan flying away, it's like if god was having a gun pointed at earth so nations wouldn't ever go to war.

In the graphic novel, it just gives nations an enemy to fight but imo it wouldn't completely work since backstabs or national ignorance towards other country can still exist and it doesn't lead to the perfect world Ozymandias would have wanted.

I personally like the movie better on that aspect because vagina squids are a bit outdated.

>>101006054
>lost parents as a child due to stupid accident
>sent to child orphanage
>all the representative and staff are dicks and sadistic bastards
>regularly beat up children for fun
>try to escape
>manage to get into contact with the only person who your father trusted by accident
>get captured
>forced to ''clean the toilet'' for an unknown period of time
>saved by father's teacher
>ptsd from experience
>dedicate life to the person who saved her
>learn that he wants to prove the existence of special virus
>not enough funding and people laugh at his work
>he dies
>dedicate her life to study to prove that this virus exist
>gain social status and power
>get research approved by elite of country
>get special research center to study virus
>slowly go mad due to stress
>single most important person backing research dies
>entire research disbanded in 1 year
>everything will be locked, closed and disclosed
>it will be as though the research doesn't exist
>manipulated into thinking that causing a catalyst will force everyone to acknowledge the existence of the virus
>kill ~2000 people
>no one ever finds out
>become figuratively a god

She was batshit insane and the best was that her entire motivation was wrong as she thought the virus explained Jesus.
>>
>>101006553
Didn't his wife die or something? Isn't that why he's so salty?
>>
>>101005737
>STILL thinking yasu murdered anyone
He was just too busy reuniting with Battler that he forgot to turn off the bomb.
>>
>>101006553
Never mind. I read it wrong.
>>
>>101006214
I can tell you're a faggot pseudo-intellectual, and a newfag.
>>
>>101006609
No. He was just born a sociopath.
>>
>>101006583
Can't really argue with that, though.
Of course, from a human point of view it's stupid, but assuming a perfectly rational view, that's sound logic.
>>
>>101006295
The Godhand aren't really actively involved though. More than anything they're like a mirror that reflects the worst in mankind. They serve as a tool to encourage potential apostles to "do whatever you want," what the apostle wants doesn't necessarily have to be bad. Rosine and the Behelit Apostle for example didn't seem to have especially villainous backgrounds or goals.

As far as they were concerned they were simply allowing Griffith to continue as he had been up to that point without their interference. He'd established the Band of the Hawk for a specific purpose and had been willing to sacrifice them (including himself) on the small scale in order to climb higher and reach his goal. In his darkest hour, they gave him the means to more or less go the rest of the way all at once.

What I'm trying to say is that the Godhand, shady fucks though they might be, did not make Griffith who he was. Griffith had been walking that path on his own long before their offer.
>>
>>101006609
He explicitly stated in FZ that he only grieved for his wife's death because he didn't have the opportunity to kill her himself. She committed suicide in the hope that he would finally love her.
>>
>>101006583
Schopenhauer would agree but fuck him.
>>
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I feel like manga has a lot more memorable villains than anime.
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>>101006716
Fuck Schopenhauer, Hegesias said it first, and better.
>>
>>101006699
Oh yeah, you're right. Then I'm not really sure where he would fall. Maybe Great Tier?
>>
>>101006593
>become figuratively a god
I always disliked how it came down to this. I liked it better when she was just batshit insane, but then she developed a God Complex out of nowhere.
>>
>>101006819
Mid Tier. His motives are pretty well known.
>>
>>101006819
Maybe. Or mid tier because he was "born that way". Or shit tier because he's just an ass. Which is why that chart is shit that ruins every villain tier thread.
>>
>>101006553
You're retarded.

>>101006591
Mid-tier doesn't specify that you have to be a non-human. Those are just examples you retard.
>>
>>101006757
>he said it first
Well no shit, both got that same bullshit from the same source.
It's not secret that Shoppy and Hegesias got their ideas from Buddhism about the lack of meaning of life and their subsequent suffering.

Apparently, Hegesias went to India with Alexander the Great and found a buddist monk, forgot the reason for it but the monk walked up a tower, put himself on fire and calmly jumped off without saying a single word.

Hegesias was so impressed because the monk did not show a single inch of pain and never screamed. It showed him that mind was truly more powerful than anything and I just find that little story hilarious whenever I read whatever Hegesias writes because I always imagine him thinking about that experience whenever he was writing his text.
>>
>>101005437
>Mr. Freeze
>meh
Pretty self-contradictory chart you got there
>>
>>101006676
>implying there is free will in the Berserker universe

You're a funny one.
>>
>>101006908
What is the difference between villains who "seem almost insane at times", "who are only obeying their nature", and "who are just evil".

If you can assblast me on that argument, then I'm a retard. If not then you're a retard for taking that /v/ tier shit seriously.
>>
>>101006972
To be honest I can see how seeing a man burning himself and jumping off a tower can be quite the experience.
>>
>>101006860
It's more explicit in the vn, the grandfather explains that ''you live forever if people keep remembering you, even after you die''.

For example, Galiao is a god because people still talk about him and Takano took that to heart.
So when someone twisted that idea of proving the virus existing to proving the research was right at all cost, it made her by extend a god, but she was completely fucking mad and never became a god by any extend, so it doesn't really matter.
>>
>>101005785
And Kyubey?
>>
>>101007035
I was going to say those categories are not exclusive
>>
>>101007035
That chart is stupid and anyone who uses that chart to categorize villains is just as stupid. I don't know why /v/ made that shit. It just simplifies villains to try and make them fit into one type.
>>
>>101005944
I think this is fine when the story doesn't try to be sympathetic about it.
>>
>>101006164
What is Othinius motivation, or is just your waifu shit?
>>
>>101007077
meh tier because his explanation is never shown nor is his reason actually shown to be of any relevance and he's only doing evil because of the situation.

Imo, he's really a bad villain but what sells him is more of his :3 that makes him more creepy than a competent villain and the 3rd movie just showed how retarded he is.
>>
>>101007035
>What is the difference
Why do I have to explain it to you? I don't really care for it, nor does it pertain to why I called you a retard.

>If not then you're a retard for taking that /v/ tier shit seriously.
Who said I took it seriously? I'm just saying you can't read and are a retard.
>>
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>>101005737
>smarter than everyone
>knows she's smarter than everyone
>gets off to proving that she's smarter than everyone
The best villains are those you love to hate
>>
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>Villains were actually perfectly all right and the entire conflict is actually a mysterious third party's work
>>
>>101007190
She wants to return to her own world, a world without the other religions of the world that she calls "filters".
>>
>>101007195
>because his explanation is never shown nor is his reason actually shown to be of any relevance

So you never watched Madoka?
>>
>>101007148
>Elfen Lied does this with their villain
>tries to make this villain an antihero psuedomoe MC

It's like they were going out of their way to make a shitty story.
>>
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>>101006583
>>
>>101007209
>I don't care for it
>But I'll respond like a nigger

Don't embarrass yourself any further.
>>
>>101007237
>smarter than everyone else
>can't prove anything
>can't actually do anything correctly

>>101007289
Yes, because we see how the universe's entropy is fucking with anything and we're just going by his word.

Who's to say he isn't fucking lying and that the juice he's gaining from witches aren't just to power their fancy cars?
>>
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>>101007276
>Implying the dirty Osean scum and filthy Yukes didn't have it coming
>Implying there isn't any tactic that isn't justified for defending Belka
>Sympathizing with the thieving Osean trash
>>
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>>101006583

I've been fighting urgue to replay the game and now it's overcoming me

And I'll do it, it's not like there's any other RPG or videogame worth playing until some weeks at best
>>
>>101007344
Don't care for the chart, not the post.

>Reading comprehension
>>
>>101007452
The Yukes did nothing wrong.
>>
>>101007452
>You will never be a proud knight of Belka
>>
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>>101007276
>the main villain's overall goal was to kill the main hero because he/she is evil and because of a third party connected to the main hero that is evil

This fucking show man.
>>
I haven't seen this often and I don't really know how I feel about it but
>Entire world has eternal life
>YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT LIFE IS WITHOUT DEATH; YOU MUST ALL DIE NOW
>>
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Pixy did nothing wrong.
>>
>>101007615
I would like that if it was
>I'll let you choose whether to experience death or not
>>
>there will never be a good anime villain
>>
>>101007724
define god.
>>
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Elder God Tier villain coming through
>>
>>101007749
A Mythical creature
>>
>>101007536
>Not being Belkan
>Supporting the Allies against Belka in the Belkan War
>Losing to the Osean scum in the Circum-Pacific War

>Nothing wrong

>>101007542
>You will never reclaim South Belka from Ustio while swearing loyalty to the Prince and avenging the Pillars of Belka
>>
>>101007776
>posting anything SSY related
Let the shitposting commence!
>>
>>101007615
I don't recall ever seeing this in anime.

But to be fair, life without death is a pointless existence.
>>
>>101007749
Events within causality that is controlled/lead for your benefactor.
>>
>>101007749
define good*
fuck me

>>101007789
>>101007877
fuck you too.
>>
Is there any villain who did evil things just because they're powerful enough to do it and nothing more? I mean,like they're killing time doing that or something
>>
>>101007559
Just what the fuck seriously?

Why did you even have to remind me?
>>
>>101005437
Watch Kaiji.
>>
>>101008011
Because it causes ptsd by sight alone.
>>
>>101007868
That's only based on philosophical interpretation.
Life has meaning if you're living for something, you don't need to die to validate living.

On the other hand, I'd only like to die when im ready to accept death, and not a second sooner. I don't think anyone truly wants to live forever.
>>
>>101007868
I'm pretty sure something like that happened in Kamisama no Nichiyoubi
>>
At least most of us can agree that the whole 'This world is evil so I must now be evil for the greater good' bullshit is played and needs to die.
>>
>>101007972
Johan.

In every possible way, he just walks around, gets people fucked because he can and simply doesn't give a shit while pretending he gives a shit about small little things and to get people to try and kill him or stop him or use him while skimming death as closely as possible by doing as little as possible.

His entire job is simply to get people to try and kill him and fuck with them by not even giving them any clues.
There's evil and then there's giving money to a hooker to buy more drugs because why the fuck not.
>>
>>101008188
>>101007868
Casshern Sins.
>>
>>101008147
>Life has meaning if you're living for something
It's hard to find something to live for when you have an eternity to mull it over. It would most likely just lead to lethargy and decadence, nothing more.
>>
>>101005437
this is a terrible chart and anyone who thinks a villain with a "mysterious origin" is good can go fuck themselves.
>>
>>101004157
You talking shit about noein faggot?
>>
>>101008351
Not so.
If it's hard to find something to live for, then you'd have been lethargic from the get go.
If you can find something new, then there's no reason for you not to be able to keep going.
And there's a lot to live for. I don't think you ever get bored.

And in the case that you do,
>On the other hand, I'd only like to die when im ready to accept death, and not a second sooner.
>>
>>101006148
I really enjoyed everything, though I was pretty much primed to view it as a satire anyway.

When they started hurling galaxies around and dangling the Earth in danger I was 100% sure this was as meta as an anime can get.
>>
>>101008422
You can go fuck yourself
>>
>>101008291

He sounds like an edgy fag
>>
>>101008652
It's lazy writing.

"WOOO WHO KNOWS WHERE HE CAME FROM? ISN'T THAT SPOOKY?"

No.
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>x does not give you the right to y

These complaints about villains always bug me the most. It's like the mewling of the powerless or something.
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It's funny because every villain motivation ever conceived is in this thread.
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>>101008665
You watched the show?
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Uh, a lot of these motives are pretty common, but to say they're overdone is silly. It's kinda like saying the seven story archetypes are overdone. Like the stories, there is only a few molds when it comes to villains.

What makes them interesting is their personality, history and how they interact with the other characters, etc. Their ultimate goal is just a vehicle to move the plot; it's secondary to everything else.
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>>101008665
Faggot doesn't even exist. He leaves no trace of his existence and no one even knows the crimes he commits, so it doesn't even matter.
His whole stick is to prove absurdism and nihilism in concept, people and the entire human race by literally doing fuck all and showing that nothing matters, nothing is right or wrong and by being the absolute pinicale of humankind.
He has literally everything, done everything and is fighting against fate itself because he's bored out of his fucking mind.

In hindsight, he's probably an insanely huge edgy motherfucker but he does it so convincingly in a completely realistic setting that it makes it completely alien and terrifying.

You don't go around fucking with people for no reason other than to show off without already being an edgy fag.
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>>101008953

So he's like Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged, but played straight.
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>>101008733
No.
Well, it can be, but not necessarily.

In can be
> "WOOO WHO KNOWS WHERE HE CAME FROM? ISN'T THAT SPOOKY?"
Or it can be
>This person presents a serious threat and/or a complicated situation, and that's all he/she needs to be
In the latter case, it isn't necessarily poorly written(other factors contribute) because the essence of the character lies within the action he is doing, unrelated to what's causing him to do it.
Take the Joker for instance.
You may see it differently but I see it as, "the Joker" only exists to be an antithesis to Batman, and most of the time everything surrounding him is well written. We don't need to know where he comes from, just who he is.

How this is different from "It just their nature" I can't tell you, but lazy/poor writing for a villain isn't dependent or even defined by their goals. Goals and reasoning are a major factor, but so long as all the other elements pick up the slack, it's still good.
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>>101005437
>Author didn't even bother finding a reason for the villain to do anything
>GREAT TIER 9/10 IT'S OK
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>>101009247
>Author didn't even bother finding a reason for the villain to do anything
What are you on about now?
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>>101008609
I disagree with your naive assessment, but your greentext is a good compromise.

>>101008633
>I was 100% sure this was as meta as an anime can get.
You're going to have a blast with seacats.
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>>101009294
The joker.
He attacks unrelated people because WOW LOOK AT HOW EVIL THIS CHARACTER IS
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>>101009339
When characters start to control every single protagonist in all of fiction and start to go all DBZ with their attacks creating big bangs, it's fucking metameta.
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>>101009106
The 'mystery' thing is completely betrayed by the idiotic writing done to perpetuate it. Wow, a vilain is a serious threat with unclear motives/history so scary wow! So why not off them and be done with it?

You cite Joker as your prime defense, but Joker should've been killed off a long time ago, his mysterious origins and existence gone and forgotten. Joker is one of the most retarded things in Cape comics and I can't believe you are defending him.
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>>101008953
>done everything

Did he suck a cock?
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>side-villain who does things just because they're bored

Am I a fag for liking this type of villain?
They don't really have any goals they just do things because they're bored.
They'll betray the big bad if it entertains them, or help out the protag if something interesting will happen, etc.
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>>101009344

Wrong

He attacks because he wants to instill chaos in the society and prove that it sucks and that order is a lie, the Joker is a deep and complex character no wonder you don't understand him
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>>101009344
Nah man, the joker wants to find a joke and to prove the world something by being innocent, though it depends on which interpretation of the joker you believe in.
The one in the The Dark Knight has him pretty well in the Great Tier since he simply doesn't give a fuck but has a point to prove by fucking with everyone and simply not giving a fuck.

The weird thing about the joker is that he truly doesn't give a flying fuck about anything other than fucking around and sometimes doesn't even care about being evil so long as there's a joke, since the world's a stage and all that jazz.
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>>101009479
He spent a year with a serial killer as a kid with his sister, so who the fuck knows honestly.
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>>101005194
He didn't have anything left to live for they took it all from him to cover their own asses, he didn't feel like just laying down dying so revenge was the only thing left.
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>>101009527
>the Joker is a deep and complex character

Wanting Batman's dick isn't deep or complex.
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>>101009247
>there is nothing irrational in human nature or the universe
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I'm sick of villains that didn't do anything wrong. It's a cheap way of instilling ambiguity.
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Rampant cynicism has gone out of control in this thread. Anyone who isn't an edgy teenager who already knows everything would do well to abort.
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>>101005785
Griffith is mid tier at best
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>>101009674
See this is a good example, Nui, if you look at her in any possible way, would be a boring shitty villain since we fucking know nothing about her but her overall presence is fucking terrifying.

And the fact that she has that cute moe Rika voice just fucks with you.

It's what they do that's sometimes more frighting then where they come from. Though the latter gives more depth but it doesn't mean it's better.
>>
I've always thought that it doesn't matter what you do with a villain, so long as their motive fits their actions and both are justifiable from their frame of reference. Same as any other sort of character.
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>>101009674
I like how hard he got told in Batman Beyond. Terry summed it up best when he said Joker was just a manchild obsessed/gay with/for some dude dressed as a bat wearing underwear.
>>
>>101009106
>>101009247
I think Villains like this are more for the fans than anything.
It gives them a reason to sit there after watching that show, or reading that comic/manga, and think about who that person it, and imagine who that person is, and discuss it with others, thus increasing the fanbase.
It's fun and it's a pretty intuitive move on the side of the developers/writers.

>>101009468
Read the above.
Also, I site the Joker becaue he is a prime example of what im getting at, also what I wrote above.
Joker has been killed off a number of times.... and while I realize how ridiculous, it's besides that point. Most of the imaginings of the Joker do exactly that. have him there to play the opposite of the hero, so that hero can learn a lessons, then he dies by the end of it.
Or he gets sent to jail, escapes, and fucks with the heroes some more, rinse repeat until one or both of them die.
>>
>>101009769
>implying knowledge is even applicable in any situation and everything isn't circomstancial based on how people do their best with whatever limited knowledge they know of the world, even if wrong, and that they do their best to live in said world.
>>
>>101009106
I've always like the Joker's origin of being Bruce's first mistake when he fails to catch him as the red hood.

It makes WAY more sense than his current "mystery" origin. At least Bruce would have a reason for his attachment to the joker.
>>
>>101009527
>the Joker is a deep and complex character

I spend equal time on /a/ and /co/, and I am calling bullshit on that right now.

The only time we get any depth out of him is in those non-canon graphic novels, and he has a very inconsistent character biography. By the time he makes his next appearance in the comic all of that is kicked to the curb.
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>>101009841
The Joker would be more considered as a force of nature more than anything else.
There's really nothing wrong with him, there's just a hint that he might have something more going on than just simply killing people that makes him mysterious and interesting.
>>
>>101009724
Why would they be considered villains in the first place?
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>>101009819
>See this is a good example, Nui, if you look at her in any possible way, would be a boring shitty villain since we fucking know nothing about her but her overall presence is fucking terrifying.

Nui isn't the same as the joker, Satsuki grew up with her. They tell her "origin" through small banter.

She's not like the Joker who in the killing joke shits on all of his "known origin" just because writers are shit.
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>>101010052

Situations like these make me think it's more convenient to just use "protagonist" and "antagonist".
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>>101010105
>She grew up with Satsuki
And that tells us she's evil because...?

All we know from this is that she's known the antagonist of the story. It just gives us context on why she's there, the Joker doesn't need that because he's fucking insane and doesn't know himself.
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>>101010227
>And that tells us she's evil because...?

She's doing her job, she's just being a dick about it because she's having more fun that way.

She hasn't disobeyed any orders given by Satsuki's mom.
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>>101006164
Accelerator is mid, he just wants to level up. he's not just killing them for fun
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>>101010322
We don't even know if she even gives a shit about Satsuki's mom or even if she would follow it.
And that quote about ''great artist can do whatever the fuck they want'' makes be believe that she just pretends to follow orders because she doesn't see any reason not to, not because she's obliged to.
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>>101004157
It sure isn't wanting to invade Poland.
Moe Ostfront Anime when
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>>101009527
Confirmed for only watching the shitty Nolan films.
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>>101010414
>We don't even know if she even gives a shit about Satsuki's mom or even if she would follow it.

She's been following orders so far.
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>>101010533
Doesn't mean she can't break them.
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>>101010475
Come on man, Poland had it hard for the past few centuries.
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>>101010578
break the rules?

But then she'll get in trouble!
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>>101010633
Polend is always in need of a good deluge

Just kidding, BF4E
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>>101006092
Ambition isn't the same as 'lust for power', especially in Griffiths case. Not to mention that 'lust for power' is an obfuscation and can very well place someone in elder god tier.
A character that has a strong Will to Power and manifests it in enticing, magical ways are some of the most popular antagonists in literature. Primarily because Will to Power is such a directly imminent and elucidated concept.
>>
>>101010731
Because rules are meant to be broken.
I mean, look at what she does with the 4th wall.
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>>101010478

About time someone realized
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>>101010836

Part of the problem with "I want power" as a motive is that power in and of itself is a means, not an end. Even in metatextual cases where the antagonist explicitly seeks power for powers sake, it still must be applied in some way. In 1984, the Party seeks control of the human race for no reason other than to exercise power, but even in that case the desire for power manifests itself in a direct way- namely, sadism. When you create a character that desires power, a fundamental aspect of their character becomes what they use that power for. Are they obsessed with control, do they desire something that they need power to attain, do they genuinely believe that they can do a better job than the existing government? Simply leaving their final goal blank isn't an answer, as it makes their goals seem trivial or shallow, like they want to become powerful just to see what it's like. It's all part of thinking your characters' goals through.
>>
>>101011436
The issue is that power is a normal human drive, people do it sometimes just for the sake of having power. When you see someone with more power, it's instinctive to simply reach and have that power yourself.
>>
>>101011611

While that is true, the desire for power in everyday life can be articulated in a number of ways. It can be used to gain money or material goods, or it can be used to satisfy one's own ego. Simply listing a character's motive as "I want power" can be seen as lazy, since the application of that power is the important part of the equation.
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This pic sums it up better than I ever could.
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>>101012160
You know, if you control everything, chances are that nothing will kill you.
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>>101012160
Good idea.
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>>101012276
Say that to degenerative diseases.
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>>101012339
Lelouch pls.
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>We just want to live.
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>>101013620
>>101013620
Fuck those motherfuckers.
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>>101005437
Lavos 9/10, should be on high tier though

>alien in alien inside alien
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>>101013620

It's a decent concept but eating people is too taboo to ever work out well.
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>>101005437
hey fuck you
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>>101015846
>Elder God Tier
>Villains just looking to have fun.
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>>101007326
In this fucker's case it made more sense than usual. In his world it's literally possible to kick the bucket and then "live" on with less suffering.
>>
What if everything is shit, like in dark souls?
>>
MD Geist is best villian.
Starts the apocolypse just to have something to fight.



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