Why didn't they give Shinji anti-depressants?
Because nobody actually cared about his mental health
He never went to a psychiatrist.
They wouldn't even help
Because watch the show
I didn't know they explained why they couldn't just give him Prozac.
Gendo's entire plan was to break him mentally while mainting his status as pilot. I suppose they might have dosed any of them if the need became that great. I think brainwashing was mentioned at another time, too.
The kid was obviously depressed and it affected his ability to preform his job. If anything, they should have wanted to pump him full of drugs BECAUSE they don't care about him.
Conventional anti-depressants actually raise suicide rates among those predisposed to it. So drugging Shinji up the usual way wouldn't do much except give him the impetus to off himself.
I never really understood the finer points of the plot so I don't know why Gendo wanted his son to go insane, but I'm watching it again and they do indeed mention brainwashing as an option.
>suicide rates are high among people who take anti-depressants
>therefore taking anti-depressants causes one to commit suicide
Anon, your logic is disappointing.
Though it does prompt the question of why they didn't just pump him up with a cocktail of methamphetamine and morphine and let him go apeshit. Maybe that's bad for sync ratios?
Because they don't work. Anti-depressants are a scam by the pharmaceuticals.
"Oh try this drug for 3 months, it will probably do nothing but got to give it time to kick in, except for completely killing your sex drive of course that is virtually guaranteed. If that doesn't work you will have to slowly taper off it, then try this new drug for another 3 months." Rinse and repeat.
Nothing more than a placebo in the best case, but raking in the cash because the 3D world is such a depressing shithole that people will jump at anything that promises to make it bearable.
because his ego-death or "psychotic breakdown" as some may put it was intentional and and part of the plan
the entire eva series can be summed up with 'why'
Drugs can make one happy (not depressed). Therefore anti-depressents DO work. They just have plenty of unwanted effects.
yeah, i've tried about 5 different anti-depressants and all they did was stunt my ability to climax.
Because Japan doesn't believe in taling to other people about your problems. You're supposed to shut up and do your work without complaining. Especially kids, they don't have the right to complain
This. Hell, most of the people that are given them could be perfectly well off with a dose of manning the fuck up.
> happy (not depressed)
You know there are more emotional states than happy and depressed, right?
>Especially kids, they don't have the right to complain
God bless Japan.
This guy gets it. I'm speaking from experience as well. This entire realm of problems doesn't work like cut and dry medical ones. If you don't take things into your own hands and rely on the help of others, you're never going to pull yourself up.
The kids didn't take it so well...
I DID get some inkling that the reason Sinji's character is so infuriating is because he is an exaggerated case of distinctly Japanese traits, like if there was a hero who was a NRA Republican who was very conservative even by the standard set by American conservatism.
Or maybe because the adults are too fucked up to guide him, unless the other mecha shows. Japan treat their kids like shit because nobody doubt the adults know everything, just like any authority on Japan.
Nobody cared about him.
Probably would fuck up his ability to pilot the EVA and/or his synch rate.
>underage automatically means you don't know what is right or good
>being a adult automatically means you do
>manning the fuck up.
Isn't that their problem? That they don't know how or simply can't man the fuck up? Telling someone to "man the fuck up" would be like telling a pedophile to stop finding children attractive.
It's not depression if you are angry all the time.
Why didn't anyone give Anno antidepressants?
Technically, Asuka was more "Japanese" than Shinji.
>Be the number 1 at any cost
>Refuse to showing weakness or even recognize to have a problem
>I failed, I must die
Why didn't anyone shave his fucking beard?
It looks like he never shaved it once, it is like uncut pubes.
100% pure ignorance.
Most people who haven't dealt with real depression don't understand it. If you could will yourself to just feel better you wouldn't be depressed in the first place.
>If you don't take things into your own hands and rely on the help of others, you're never going to pull yourself up.
Why didn't they just shoot her?
Now that you say that, I ALSO found myself wondering why they didn't just lay everything out to Shinji logically.
>You see, Shinji, you wan to protect your friends, right? Well if the world is destroyed, your friends will be destroyed too. You like living too, right? Well you're in this world too, so if this world is destroyed then you will be destroyed as well. Do you notice the pattern?
Or how about...
>Shinji, I'll make this simple... If you save the world, you will get all the bitches.
Depression is more complicated than just feeling sad or tired all the time
>>I never really understood the finer points of the plot so I don't know why Gendo wanted his son to go insane
Gendo didn't want him to go insane, he just wanted him depressed and withdrawn, so that he could be easily manipulated. Gendo himself couldn't pilot the Eva, but Shinji could.
>If you could will yourself to just feel better you wouldn't be depressed in the first place.
Excuse me for my edge, but if you can't do this, you really should just die.
Autistic people, paralyzed war veterans, and even kids slowly dying of cancer at Saint Judes can do it. Survival of the wiliest.
>Talk about autism
>Lack basic empathy
>>Drugs can make one happy (not depressed)
They don't make you happy, the drugs chemically alter you so that you "feel" happy. It's like taking a cold medicine, it doesn't take away your cold, it just temporarily gets rid of the symptoms.
>you really should just die
A lot of people do just die. Suicide is one of the leading causes of death in the developed world.
The whole problem with depression is you lack the will to do anything. Saying the solution is to just find the willpower to get yourself out of it is like telling a quadriplegic to just walk it off.
Did everything work out the way Gendo wanted it to or did he fuck it up? Again, I don't know WTF is going on half of the time.
yeah, anti-depressants aren't supposed to cure a patient on their own, just control the symptoms so they can start getting their life back on track & work out more healthy long-term ways of coping. Unfortunately most doctors just want to write the prescription and consider it a closed case
>Lack basic empathy
Nigga I cry from shit that isn't even suppose to be sad.
I feel empathy for people that are depressed, but not the depressed that think they should/are going to be like this forever.
They have given up or just being crybabies, and I truly can't stand quitters and crybabies.
No, it's just an entirely different level of will. I willed my way out of real suicidal depression, and I'm perfectly fine now. I'd go so far as to say sheer will is the only way out of it.
also if someone is constantly berated with "man the fuck up" and shown absolutely no empathy then they won't have much motivation to try to be happy or sociable. you have to be braindead not understand this.
>like telling a quadriplegic to just walk it off.
If a german war criminal can do it, why can't you? What's your excuse depressedfags??
>>Shinji, I'll make this simple... If you save the world, you will get all the bitches.
I really doubt Shinji wants that.
>Broken machines should be thrown out...
Unless they can be fixed.
Obviously, Evangelion is set in a world where the knowledge of psychological treatment has been lost.
Of course. There's virtually no way to help depression from the outside. That manning up has to be entirely self-generated. The only thing that can help a depressed person is themselves.
Japs don't believe in depression. They also don't believe in dyslexia.
>Evangelion is set in a world where the knowledge of psychological treatment has been lost
Each case is different and yours would seem to be the exception.
Dude, he's only a subpelagic, not a quadropelagic.
Because he's 14. Unless anti-depressant technology advanced along with giant bio-robot technology, anti-depressants can make things a lot worse for children and teenagers. Anti-depressants are, ironically, in the depressant category of drugs. If your nervous system isn't fully mature the drug can interact in a way that makes depression worse.
>Saying the solution is to just find the willpower to get yourself out of it is like telling a quadriplegic to just walk it off.
Will is like time, everyone has it, people that are depressed are just wasting will, it isn't that they don't have it or can't use it. Comparing quadriplegics to depressed people is like saying there is no longer any will at all.
Well, it's not like I just got up one day and decided to feel better, and that's all there is to it. I had to work up the courage to face my own fears, problems, and self-imposed limitations.
That is the destination, but saying that is the destination is not going to help someone get there. The human psyche is a complex thing and cannot be easily reconstructed.
>The only thing that can help a depressed person is themselves.
This is true. But I think outside help and medicine are important for keeping them alive long enough to do that.
You do realize you're on one of the top boards with people who are depressed, right? You don't just shrug it off and go on with life, there's more to it than that. You have to push yourself, make small to-do lists, volunteer, get a job, find decent people.
>I can't stand quitters
I can't stand people who do not understand depression.
>You do realize you're on one of the top boards with people who are depressed, right?
Isn't that /r9k/ or /lgbt/?
I think he does.
As someone who hit the pits of depression and got back out, I have to say that people claiming depression is misunderstood is by and large just an excuse to keep themselves in that pit of despair. It's really not that hard a thing to understand.
And not everyone can do that on their own. Some people do need help.
>I can't stand people who do not understand depression.
>why does nobody feel bad for me?
No one from the outside needs to understand, you just need to understand.
Of course outside help can kick-start your understanding, but only you can get yourself to full understand it, just like with everything you have ever learned.
>I think outside help and medicine are important for keeping them alive long enough to do that
Yes. But absolutely none of the actual problem solving is in their hands. They keep the person at least breathing until they finally grit their teeth and get in the fucking robot.
>one of the top
>no longer any will at all
For a small number of people that is the case, but it's not a perfect metaphor.
>Discussing depression on an anonymous board
Why nobody has posted the marine copypasta?
That's the thing, though. They wont be able to end the depression until they can do that without help.
If any of you depressed fags are on anti-depressants, don't stop that shit cold turkey.
I did and am more depressed than I've ever been
I always thought it was silly how they treated him bad. Even if they didn't care about him wouldn't it be in everyones best interest if Shinji was healthy enough to be a badass pilot?
You don't get on it in the first place.
All he wanted was to see Yui again, and he did.
They are putting children in giant death robots because they have to. They don't give a damn about their development. Shinji's psychological issues are a threat survival of humanity. It seems logical that Nerv wouldn't give a second thought to forcing Shinji to taste the rainbow every morning.
RIP in peace, David Foster Wallace.
Yeah that's a good point, but when I was started on it it was when I was fairly young and didn't have say in the issue.
Then explain it, because I still can't explain it when other people don't understand.
But that's not a requirement to start getting themselves out of it, it's something you can figure out later when you're doing better. If you need help in the beginning it doesn't mean you'll always need it.
So Gendo and Shinji are complete asshats and that is why humanity gets seriously F'd up the A?
That's not explaining it to others. That's making yourself understand it. Others will still not get it.
It's like having no motivation to exist. It's like an empty water bottle. They stay as they are because there's a bare minimum air pressure inside. When you suck the air out, a vacuum forms inside. The pressure of the atmosphere, which air filled bottles easily endure, now crushes it. Depression is a bottle with the air sucked out of it.
>>Did everything work out the way Gendo wanted it to or did he fuck it up?
No. In EoE when Gendo is about to trigger Third Impact by merging Adam (that he had fused to his hand) with Rei, Rei betrays him. Gendo planned to trigger Third Impact himself so that he could control the Human Instrumentality hivemind and re-unite with Yui, at the last moment, Rei gave control over the Human Instrumentality hivemind over to Shinji.
At least that's what I think happened. But I know for sure that his elaborately complex plan didn't work out as he had painstakingly planned.
That's where the progress begins, though, and where you stop aimlessly existing. You need to take things in your own hands, and serve yourself.
>Others will still not get it.
Only those that need to understand depression are those that are going through it, of course in turn, only those that are going/went through depression can understand it.
Why would you want everyone else to learn something they are never going to use just so everyone can understand how you feel?
Having a discussion/argument on depression and using anecdotal evidence is stupid. depression can be caused by a multitude ranging from life style to some type of imbalance or predisposition, it can even be a symptom of something deeper like ocd or schizophrenia. So putting any type of generalizing statement on depression like "will your way out" or "depressed people can't do anything about it" will be met with contradiction.
Yeah obviously you need to be the one to make the decision to change something because other people can't make it for you. But that's a far cry from the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" or "man up and get over it" people keep repeating.
If all Gendo wanted was Yui, why did he trigger Second Impact instead of just living a happy life with her.
I'm not talking about opiates or stimulants or something. Most depressants don't make you high. An actual anti-depressant could very easily only make a teenager more depressed. There are various euphoriants that might have helped, but a vast majority would would have made him more impaired than it was worth, and after the high wore off, the depression would only get worse.
Why is Yui gone? She fused with the 1.0, right? Why did she do that? To save humanity? Did Gendo really fuck things up by wiping out humanity in order to reunite with a woman who died to save humanity?
He did try and think of motivations to fight like protecting his friends, gaining a new identity as 'an eva pilot' etc, the biggest one being to fight so Gendo would like him, which was obviously a bust.
>You like living too, right? Well you're in this world too, so if this world is destroyed then you will be destroyed as well.
Well, he also thought of that, but then he let Tumbling Down happen ashis depression reached a head and he decided he didn't want to live anymore, and wanted everything to be destroyed too. Although he did hold out for 26 episodes, so that's something.
That fucking image is hilarious. Domestic violence.
Finally someone gets it.
Pulling yourself up by yourself is exactly what needs to be done. Like people have already said, any outside help is nothing but buying time and momentarily staving off you killing yourself.
>So putting any type of generalizing statement on depression like "will your way out" or "depressed people can't do anything about it" will be met with contradiction.
Yup, everyone is just giving their own understandings thinking another can not exist.
4chan in a nutshell.
Yui wants to live forever as a the last piece of humanity.
Is it really that hard to create characters who fuck things up for believable reasons instead of making them seem like they were lobotomized?
Anno presents depression within Japan as stemming from multiple pathways, but all coming from the inherent division between people. And perhaps he provides a more nation-driven concept when he presents the present day mindset, but he knowingly reverses race and gender to keep things interesting.
Shinji presents one part of Japan as it is today, in the societal dilemma of being passive, of sensing a sort of exclusion, and experiencing great self-loathing. In some ways, this might be a response to the disgrace of WWII, a dishonorable surrender brought about by great trauma. Shinji hates his cowardice and regrets it, even repeating "I mustn't run away".
Shinji's issues are presented as opposite to Asuka's issues, but they share a lot of traits in common. Asuka constantly berates Shinji, but tolerates him at certain times as well. What she truly has no tolerance for, though, is Rei.
Asuka represents the section of the Japanese social consciousness that strives. The Shinji and Asuka portions have existed throughout much of Japanese history, but the division grew throughout the 20th century, culminating in the Japanese surrender and occupation. Asuka cannot handle any sort of defeat and faces the dilemma of a Japan without a military.
There's probably more to this but that's enough
bullshit for now
tl;dr evangelion pilots are japan
>Conventional anti-depressants actually raise suicide rates among those predisposed to it
"it" being suicide
this means that if you had a sample of people that were predisposed to suicide X percent would kill themselves without antidepressants and greater than X percent would kill themselves with antidepressants because classical antidepressants dont usually work as intended on suicidally depressed people
Anon, your reading comprehension disappoint.
At the beginning of episode 3, Shinji is in training going through target practice. His behavior is that of someone completely desensitized; exhausted, zero exuberance, yet overall very agreeable and obedient. He's going through the motions, "Position target in the center, pull the switch".
This is often the kind of behavior associated with those medicated on antidepressants, they numb the system as opposed to actually making someone feel happy. It doesn't seem directly related to the plot, but I could see that state of Shinji being Anno's interpretation of what it means to be on antidepressants; Taking a drug that robs you of anything resembling human emotion in order to do what society expects to do, as how Shinji shut down his emotion to cope with doing what his father and NERV wanted.
Yui, like Gendo did some things for personal reasons. I think part of it was that everyone does things for themselves but have to balance that with the needs of others.
You could argue that Shinji didn't want to live but that doesn't mean he wants to die either. If you've been depressed you know what I mean.
Your image is perfect.
Take this, you may need it.
Wait until that guy who hates WWII-related anime interpretations hears this one!
You don't need to pull yourself all the way out on your own. If you can that's great but sometimes people need help.
This is a lie
In which case, they're lacking will and will probably remain in depression. Stand on your own two feet, there's no better thing you can do.
Also shinji is a kid so you have to take into account
> two independent groups of FDA experts found that a 2-fold increase of suicidal ideation and behavior in children and adolescents, and a 1.5-fold increase of suicidal behavior in the 18–24 age group
tl;dr antidepressants make you want to kill yourself more if you already are depressed and spend a lot of time thinking about your place in the world especially if you are a dumb teenager
>humanity in a nutshell
I think that's a great theory.
I also think that anno is a complete hack and any symbolism you see in his work is your own.
There's nothing wrong with that; the consumer's interpretation is just as valid as the creators in my opinion.
It was during the 1st activation of Unit 01, she disappears into Unit 01.
Humanity was going to be wiped out anyway by Seele, Gendo just saw it as opportunity to reunite with Yui. .
He obviously gets motivated for some things. He complains that his own life is danger is gets VERY motivated when someone who has talked to him for more than five seconds is in danger.
So I guess they could either explain the reason why it makes sense for him to save the world or they could have everyone in the world talk to him for 10 seconds.
Yes, certainly. For me, and I'm guessing for a lot of people, an obligation toward those close to me was one of the only things separating me from seriously considering suicide. But if I could choose to simply disappear as if I never existed? When I was most depressed I would have taken that opportunity no questions asked.
the fuck is this shit?
That's the logic that will only keep you grovelling in depression. There's absolutely nothing that can be done besides helping yourself.
>tfw evangelion thread #4,875,658
Not necessarily. I'm not talking about dependence on someone to be happy, but having someone to help you out when you need it. People aren't islands and trying to solve everything on your own can be an exercise in futility.
Your image is perfect.
Take this, you may need it.
my inability to check the spoiler image box
I know you're not talking about that. People aren't islands, but depression works in a place understood and influenced by no one but yourself. Solve your own problems, no one else can.
I highly doubt it's a metaphor for drugs themselves. More just him fitting the role he's expected of (very Japanese) and of course having no motivation or goals, or caring about it at all.
Anno also used his experience being jerked around by producers while trying to make Nadia, with them ordering those shitty filler episodes that he was forced to do, and he felt like he had no control over anything.
>they could have everyone in the world talk to him for 10 seconds.
It makes perfect sense, then, that Shinji rejected Instrumentality.
I don't know why I'll need it but I take it in gratitude.
Solving your own problems doesn't preclude having people to support and help you.
Spoilering NSFW doesn't make it allowed, though.
Also, generally I would agree with you, but some people need help in order to be able to help themselves. Teach a man to fish, or something like that.
I'm a polite rebel.
Well you could also argue that he's not the same level of depressed throughout the series and that some days are better than others especially when he builds up a trust with the other pilots. But when things go wrong he's straight back to the dark place.
>This is roughly the world-view for Neon Genesis Evangelion. This is a world-view drenched in a vision of pessimism. A world-view where the story starts only after any traces of optimism have been removed.
>And in that world, a 14-year-old boy shrinks from human contact. And he tries to live in a closed world where his behavior dooms him, and he has abandoned the attempt to understand himself. A cowardly young man who feels that his father has abandoned him, and so he has convinced himself that he is a completely unnecessary person, so much so that he cannot even commit suicide.
>And there is a 29-year-old woman who lives life so lightly as to barely allow the possibility of a human touch. She protects herself by having sufarce level relationships, and running away. Both are extremely afraid of being hurt. Both are unsuitable-lacking the positive attitude-for what people call heroes of an adventure. But in any case, they are the heroes of this story.
>They say, "To live is to change." I started this production with the wish that once the production complete, the world, and the heroes would change. That was my "true" desire. I tried to include everything of myself in Neon Genesis Evangelion-myself, a broken man who could do nothing for four years. A man who ran away for four years, one who was simply not dead. Then one thought. "You can't run away," came to me, and I restarted this production. It is a production where my only thought was to burn my feelings into film.
I once heard that the pilots had to be as fucked up as possible in order to better disassociate themselves and synchronize with their evas. It made sense to me
For me I don't think I ever really considered suicide. I felt like I lived in a world of gray but I just went through the motions for a long time and never seriously considered ending it. I don't think its in me.
>a Japan without a military
I bet you don't think they have an aircraft carrier either.
All this talk about depression just confirms my fears, first is that drugs and depression meds can only do so much, the moment you quit them be it either because you dont have money or your body cant physically take them anymore its all over.
And its true that no one but yourself can help you get out of the hole, some people really cant. Also some people are fucked up beyond repair in every way, the real outcasts, ugly, retarded, poor and unwilling/unable to move on. Makes me think of some hikkis, when you throw away so many years of your life and are mentally ill it sounds like a real hassle to become a normal person again, it needs unhuman levels of willpower which was probably the reason it happened in first place.
In short suicide can be the answer in many cases, I just wish society was more accepting of it and helped those in misery to put an end to their pain, instead of trying to keep them going when theres not even a valid point for that. I dont even think charity applies here because they may take more than what they could give. Suicide booths would be cool, put your favourite music movie food whatever, and slowly fade into nothingness without pain.
It's a "helicopter destroyer." Totally different and not in violation of their terms of surrender.
Was this whole "do what you're told" thing in Evangelion created as an intentional critique of Japanese culture or did the creator not realize that Shinji would look completely insane to all non-Japanese?
A-all the troops are for policing America-sama
I respect Japan for only having a defense force.
He doesn't look insane to all non-japanese people. I found him a lot more relateable than a lot of other goku like characters.
Protip: A Military and a Defense Force are functionally the same thing.
And it better stay that way.
Eva wasn't created for non-Japanese.
Assisted suicide should be allowed for terminal conditions. The thing is, depression isn't strictly terminal. The people you described who are, arguably, beyond all hope have other more serious conditions of which depression is a symptom.
Also, meds are (should be) be a means to an end rather than an end in and of themselves. In the long run, good therapy is more important than meds.
Not when definition of Defense Force is written into the constitution.
why did shinji choke her in the end of EoE?
why didnt they just stop the show after the first episode
It's easy when you have the US military to lean on, cheaper too.
His actions are incomprehensible unless one understands the Japanese preoccupation with doing what others expect one to do.
um, people don't have existential crises in the West?
he might look inside to dumb jocks though
We call them midlife crises and solve them by buying an old muscle car or a motorcycle.
>most Americans are so mentally stunted they don't think about their purpose in life until they're at least 40
I think it's purposely left ambiguous, but the general consensus seems to be that's it's simply a mix of anger and confusion that make Shinji go a little crazy.
Shinji eventually 'found himself' at the end of the TV series, but it's not entirely clear if it was all happening in his mind or if what happened is actually part of the story. EoE makes things even more complicated because Shinji is a bitch to the end. Now Rebuild is trying to change things again with some kind of loop theory. So which one is the real ending?
I think a lot of people are just frustrated that there's no real conclusion and the fates of your favorite characters will never be really known.
Because he was choking her before.
4.0 is going to explain everything
This type of advice has always rubbed me the wrong way.
I understand that it is in the end the only solution, but if that is the case then there probably is no help for someone who feels that life is completely pointless with nothing to strive for, and uses anything they can find as a distraction.
NGE = what's happening in people heads during EoE instrumentality.
For rebuild, we have to wait for 4.0
It was a continuation of their argument from earlier, with the only difference being that Asuka understood Shinji as a person thanks to instrumentality.
I thought the end of the tv series took place during EoE when everyone is tanged.
We don't have time to think about it, not with all the freedom we're enjoying.
Well I wouldn't say its exclusive to the Japanese. Its a mindset you can reach through separate means.
People all over the world have the same psychological issues that Shinji has, but Shinji also has an excess of traits that are already distinctly Japanese. A character with psychological issues would be easily understood by non-Japanese viewers and a character with an excess of distinctly Japanese traits would simply seem different, but taken together (without knowledge of Japanese culture) it becomes very difficult to understand what is going on in Shinji's head.
Imagine trying to detect speech impediment while listening to someone speak language you've never heard before.
>So which one is the real ending?
The one where Shinji finally dies.
Admit it /a/, Anno is a hack and he doesn't have his touch anymore and 4.0 won't solve anything, it will only make it worse.
You are right, but I don't know of another culture that takes that concept to such extremes, hence me singling out Japan.
People can get depressed again after a revelation. The congratulations scene is when he rejected instrumentality. But when you come back to Earth and it's a wrecked wasteland with nobody around (it's implied that Shinji spent quite a bit of time alone before Asuka showed up), you'd go straight back to insanity.
At least that's my take on it
EoE and the t.v. series are considered there own different continuities.
It was a joke. Everyone knows Anno is the George Lucas of anime.
No they're not.
And after sharing a telepathic link with Shinji during Instrumentality, she probably knows that he jerked off over her comatose body.
Yes they are.
As an internet rule, everything is shit and "liking" something simply means finding an excuse as to why something isn't complete shit.
Maybe you haven't spent enough time trying to come up with an excuse for the rebuild.
Yes, they are.
EoE was created to replace the tv endings, not to complement them.
It sure seems like they are.
Your point is valid. I just saw Shiji as being depressed though and never really thought of the Japanese thing.
It's either that or it was a reaction to Shinji still failing to get close to another person even after instrumentality.
>not being flattered
Come on Asuka most people look like shit when they're sleeping. Even with their nipples.
Anno stood by the t.v. ending, they are both different possible endings.
Yea kinda sucks for Shinji really. After getting to know everyone through instrumentality he's like "I don't need to be alone anymore. I feel confident and can be my own person and be happy." The he rejects it but almost immediately regrets it I'd say and chokes Asuka out of frustration and his own weakness. Nothing has changed and the only thing that could have helped I stopped.
>>The congratulations scene is when he rejected instrumentality.
The congratulations scene in the TV ending is Shinji accepting Instrumentality. It's him tearing down his mental and emotional walls, dropping his self-loathing, and allowing himself to be accepted by the Instrumentality hivemind.
>I bet you don't think they have an aircraft carrier either.
You mean Okinawa?
Because EVA was part social commentary on mental illness are treated in Japan.
In the 90s at least, it was generally ignored. "You'll get over it," type of mentality, with very little treatment options or people willing to understand it.
This is part of why it seems no one cares Shinji has all these problems or cares to help. All the cast would rather ignore it and just have him get back to his job (I wouldn't be surprised if this is how Anno was treated too)
14 year old faps aren't much of a complement. I don't know about you, but when I was 14 I could fap to a potted plant if it had the right curves.
But it wasn't a regular fap it was a sad fap.
It's debatable. There's no reason they can't be part of the same continuity, but they probably weren't intended to.
Perhaps that would be exceedingly impressive for an adult fap, but again, the slightest breeze would have got me going when I was that age.
CAPTCHA: ntskal seaman
EoE isn't mean to "replace" anything. You're not supposed to take one ending over the other.
They're just two different endings that can happen to Shinji. TV: he accepts himself and other... EoE: he hates and rejects everyone
Why is she so perfect then?
Didn't Shinji's boyfriend die around the time of the Third Impact in the original series? He is is still around after the Third Impact in the rebuild.
If Kaworu never died in the TV series, then Instrumentality would never had happened because Adam's soul would have stayed in Kaworu's body.
Shinji fucked up.
Well some people just have a gift, I hope you nurtured it into adulthood.
> Nothing has changed
No, Shinji made a huge change - he didn't want to not die anymore.
Time for some words from the master himself.
What? I got the complete opposite impression. Shinji accepts reality similar to how he does in EoE.
Because she's an angel
We're talking about the TV series and EoE, not Rebuild.
>There's a Japanese Empire. In the year 2000, the U.S. and Japan had a war, and Japan occupied Hawaii. Sorry.
Double negatives man. So he didn't want to live ? I don't see how that changes things.
The Internet tends to desensitize people until everyone has approximately the same "sensitivity".
Let the man dream of his Glorious Nippon Empire Anon-kun.
Anno is a bit of a fascist asshole. He blew up half of the United States in Rebuild.
When is Jet Alone showing up in Rebuild?
>Most anime makers are basically autistic
The sort of hurt pride that comes from the relabeled and restricted JSDF is something that would be reflected in Asuka's character. Imagine if she was relabeled as an "operator" or "backup pilot" or some other diminutive term. Would prolly bum her out
I can't fault a man for wanting to see his country win.
Pretty sure it was instrumentality.
Didn't they say something about everyone being able to choose Instrumentality? I thought the reason Shinji and Asuka were on the beach together at the end was because they were ironically the two people to reject it. Why else would they be on Earth?
>japs still upset they got BTFO during WW2
I don't know about HALF. I assumed he just blew up the desert states.
What the fuck? Shinji accepting Instrumentality MAKES NO SENSE. Where do you do this from?
That goes against the whole theme of the show. Shinji accepts himself, and learns that everyone doesn't hate him and start to make the first step at opening up to others.
The final 2 episodes really have little to nothing to do with the plot details, that it's completely stupid to even bring in if 25/26 is "Shinji inside Instrumentality or not" cause it's dumb. It's about Shinji (and the girls to an extent) coming to terms with themselves, that's it. It's a long awaited therapy lesson.
They'll never get over that shamefrul dispray.
>They can't handle strong women such as Misato and Asuka.
>Eva MK 69 is gonna start 21st impact or whatever
>Jet Alone shows up
>Shinji. You stay. I go.
He gave his life for all of us.
Him accepting instrumentality does make sense. The entire show was him struggling and failing. Only when he broke down the walls between himself and humanity did he finally understand himself and others but that required instrumentality.
>Shinji accepts himself, and learns that everyone doesn't hate him and start to make the first step at opening up to others.
Which is what he did when accepted Instrumentality. Everyone is in the Tang he rejected them when he left the Tang in EOE.
Not him, and I won't claim to understand anything about NGE, but Shinji never seemed significantly "cured" and it makes sense why someone who seems to want to connect with others but remains seemingly incapable of doing so would want to join in the hive mind hoopla.
>>Shinji accepts reality similar to how he does in EoE.
Shinji accepts himself and allows himself to make emotional connections with others, and accepts the unconditional acceptance of the hivemind. The last scene has the stage facade (his emotional barriers) crack and break away while all the people in the hivemind congratulate him and welcome him into the hivemind.
In EoE, he accepts the fact that human interaction carries the risk of emotional pain from rejection, and chooses to reject the unconditional acceptance of the hivemind in favor of making emotional connections with other people in the real world outside of Human Instrumentality.
Would YOU accept Instrumentality, Anon?
It seems like a pretty sweet deal.
Only if Asuka is in it.
No because Asuka rejected it. I want to be with her at the beach.
If I cease to be defined as an individual do I cease to exist?
No, but I would take over the world through NERV.
>sombre piano cover of Break My Stride plays
>Him accepting instrumentality does make sense
It doesn't though. Cause like we learn in EoE, accepting it is like running away into a fantasy. It's not real life and it's not dealing with real people anymore.
Why would Anno end a series, where whole minor theme was YOU NEED TO ACCEPT REAL LIFE and have Shinji do the exact opposite?
by most definitions, yes
Well after you join it wouldn't bother you anymore.
What you think he meant for Shinji to make the 'right choose'?
But if I don't exist how can I be happy?
i think that's the point
so fuck instrumentality
You won't be sad either.
In the Tang everyone exist as a collective.
What? Did you even watch episode 26?
Shinji accepts his identity. Shinji realizes that in order to have an identity there must be people around him to interact with. Human Instrumentality is the complete dissolution of all identity. ERGO, Shinji rejects Human Instrumentality.
Humanity gains stuff with Instrumentality and it losses stuff. I think humanity should could have spent a few more thousand years exploring its own potential as a group of individuals before making the final decision.
Humanity may value the complex bonds it uses to connect itself and perhaps not simply the extent of the connectivity. We may have lost more than we gained with Instrumentality. Humanity could have spread across the stars, diversified, and changed the face of the universe as a group of individuals. Is humanity still capable of that after Instrumentality?
Because the whole idea of accepting "real life" which seems like a fairly miserable time for him just sucks. People are calling the shots for Shiji and there are barriers he's got that can't be broken with simple pleading. He's stuck in a life he doesn't want with no way out and instrumentality gives him the answer. In EoE after he rejects it does he seem happy ?
Who needs space ships when you got Tang.
If I can be neither happy nor sad then what is the point of existing?
Can anyone help me here.
I KNOW this is from somewhere - can't remember.
We will be happy.
Well I don't give a shit about you faggot. Stay tang I'm going to space.
>what is the point of existing?
To buy Anno's merch
>>Why would Anno end a series, where whole minor theme was YOU NEED TO ACCEPT REAL LIFE and have Shinji do the exact opposite?
Because by the time of EoE, he had a different point of view of the otaku he was addressing in the themes of Evangelion.
Anno in the TV ending: Hey, otaku, just learn to accept yourself and realize that other people have hang-ups, too. Once you drop your self loathing, you'll have the confidence to make connections with other people.
After the backlash of the TV ending
Anno in EoE: Look you nerds, stop fapping to lifeless dolls, just accept that life isn't easy, get over your bullshit, and join everybody else in the real world.
>space ships and Tang
You can't have one without the other.
Alright. Good luck being the last person left alive on earth while i live with everyone else forever in my tang of eden.
Not him, but I think his point is that it doesn't make sense from a story-telling perspective, which is reason to suspect it might not be true.
Whats he gonna do now that everyones been turned into tang? In the end isn't he rejecting humanity once more. They choose the tang and he couldn't handle the intimacy.
Get raped by Asuka probably
There's nothing "intimate" about choosing the tang. It's the opposite of intimate: it's choosing non-identity over identity.
And it's implied that more of humanity comes back as time goes on.
It's not "implied", they actually say people have the ability to come back.
It doesn't mean they did.
Which is why I said "implied," because it was not explicitly stated that anyone came back, only that they were able to.
But do they? We saw how long it took for Asuka to come back.
I got the idea pls don't bully.
A couple of things I always wondered about EoE, is the entire Earth destroyed or just Japan? And are Shinji and Asuka immortal or is the curse of EVA just a Rebuild feature?
>is the entire Earth destroyed or just Japan?
Did you really watch EoE m8
Anno didn't want a "happy" happy ending. The vagueness and darkness in the final scene, independent of anything else comment on Instrumentality as a symbol and that not everything is resolute at the end
This thread makes me want to accept a live action Hollywood adaptation where every pilot is coked up like the Wolf of Wall Street and NERV HQ is just a gangbang center counting down to the end of days.
It's funny because Asuka seems to be the only one psychologically all right
on the surface, at least
>live action Hollywood adaptation
She doesn't seem to have that many issues other than her hangup over gaki-Shinji. Oh and I guess living in the post-apocalypse for 14 years.
Pacific Rim is pretty much a good simulation for evangelion
It'll retcon EoE and say more angels are coming, completely botch any fanwanked symbolism, and end up taking the cross symbolism literally and have shinji sacrifice himself (but not before sexing the female lead). They might change names, too
ADV was in a legal dispute with Gainax to make one a few years ago. Thankfully they went bankrupt before they could go forward.
I don't know if anyone else, likely Funimation, bought up those rights in ADV's liquidation.
Oh boy, I understand it a hell of a lot more than you do.
I know like 10 people who say they're depressed when they've all got nice comfy houses with big LED TVs and the newest smartphones and gizmos and gadgets, meanwhile I'm freezing my ass off in a shack with the flu and a 103 fever (actually I passed out yesterday) sleeping on the floor with 5 cats and two rabbits, no father, mother is ill, and no transportation to boot.
As it turns out, I'm not depressed because I'm an inspired individual with actual values and discipline, while the depressed kids are really just misguided materialists that actually bought into the whole atheism and tolerance joke.
Also, eat 2 bananas a day, they help prevent anxiety and depression 10 times more than professor kike-puppet and his drugs.
Also get some sleep, and take a break from the computer because when you stare at a monitor your brain will think it's daytime and it will not produce melatonin, this can lead to sleep deprivation, anxiety, depression, irregular heartbeat, and cancer.
Never ever drink soda, you need water, LOTS of water, like, way more than you ever thought.
>sleeping on the floor with 5 cats and two rabbits
For the warmth and company I'm assuming.
They live around here.
By some miracle, the cats have not eaten the rabbits.
What the fuck did I just read?
Cats prey on rabbits? Well shit. Also, don't they shit all over the place?
>a dose of manning the fuck up
While in most cases i agree with this, its not always that simple. Depression can be both deeply psychological AND/OR a chemical imbalance. people who are just a kinda depressed/sad/sluggish, they need a tall glass of quit your bitching, and a does of man up, but when its heavily psychological or chemical to the point of crippling a persons life, therapy and meds , depending on the caus of the depression, are the only real options.
my mom was severely depressed and tried to commit suicide several times in the past few years because her chronic depression was chemical, and when ever she was on meds, she was better, when she stopped taking them, she went back to being depressed. And, she didnt know they were anti-depressants, she was told they were simply "mood stabilizers"
seems like you're the materialist since you're placing so much value on it
I do all the things you said anyway, doesn't really help
what the fuck is with the atheism/liberal assumption
>Oh boy, I understand it a hell of a lot more than you do.
well apparently you dont, of you dont realize that depression can be both chemically caused in the body, or deeply psychological, regardless of how well off someones life may seem.
Because people don't want to/know how to help depressed people.
>tfw I had to convince myself to get a shrink and anti-depressants after years of pain
>beg family to drive me there
>despite obvious signs I was messed up I just kept getting yelled at
>they only finally took me seriously months after I lost mind and ended up in a mental ward
....fuck this gay earth.
(good thing I have meds & supplements now or I'd be a lot more upset about it.)
Shit yeah they drop a turd like every 10 seconds, so I do have to clean that.
They are very low maintenance though.
You can afford to not be a materialist if you have everything you need.
Money isn't everything, but it sure is a lot of things.
You should find a way to convert all that cat and rabbit shit into electricity. That will show those fucking fedora donning atheists.
this isn't my point. you call others materialists and then you claim happiness directly correlates with your income
A lot of people say they're depressed when they've had a somewhat bad day anon. Unless you know they're actually diagnosed, I'd just assume their day hasn't been the greatest.
Also, why bring politics into this?
Lots of people are twats who have never been depressed and thinking having a sad is the same thing.
Have you tried breeding those cats and rabbits together? You can probably make bucket loads of cash with cabbits.
Interesting metaphor. I guess you could say the outside air pressure is like stress/problems/life in general etc, and the air in the bottle is positive sense of self, so when the good inside you is gone, all of the tings in the world just make you come tumbling down.
That'd be a singularity of cute.
"received" is misspelled everywhere.
Also that's some terrible code.
I didn't mean to generalize, but that seems to be ubiquitous among the depressed people I've become friends with.
Didn't you read my post? Of course I understand that.
But why the massive increase in depression, anxiety, and ADD since 1945?
Suicide is one of the leading causes of death in America and it is not because people just got unlucky with their chemical reactions.
It's a bit of a cultural phenomenon, and it only gets worse when you surround yourself with the wrong people, tumblr is one such example.
>When asked about Evangelion's last two episodes, which upset many fans, Anno cooly replied, "I have no problem with them. If there's a problem, it's all with you guys. Too bad."
>Didn't you read my post?
It came off as you saying that "rich people have no reason to be depressed", then giving some good advice so i apologize if i misinterpreted your point.
>But why the massive increase in depression, anxiety, and ADD since 1945?
That's actually a good question, and you bring up good point about it being a sort of cultural phenomenon. It could have to do with the fact that it is increasingly common for people to be around those who enable those kinds of behaviors. Before then, you had to actually interact with people, but now, chatting on the internet with anonymous people is so common esp among the younger generations, it enables us to think we dont need to interact with people in real life because we can escape to the internet where we can be whatever we want and who ever we want. I could say im a girl, or a black man, or whatever, and if i act convincingly enough, people would believe me. That in and of itself enables depression and anxiety and ADD in so many teens.
It could also have to do with the american mindset of "blame it on something out of your control" that so many people lean to. That would seem logical considering the start date of 1945 and onward being some of the most prosperous times in america until recently. everyone thought the country and every one in it was doing great, so if there was a problem with someone, it was something out of their control.
Then there's the idea that society causes it by in a way promoting things that lead anxiety, ADD and depression. As in, not talking to anyone about your problems, not properly educating kids on things they should probably know, and to that end, things kids/teens shouldn't be doing being portrayed as cool in almost every outlet of media. The people who dont fit into this walled garden idea of being cool, or how a teen should be, or if you are older, how an adult should behave, its gonna have some psychological effects sooner or later.
>Gendo himself couldn't pilot the Eva, but Shinji could.
The problem is, absolutely anything at all could be a ruse or really part of Gendo's master plan, but we can't tell because we never get to see what he's thinking. Anything can be explained via conjecturing that Seele/Gendo know stuff that we don't and retroactively using this theory to retroactively interpret their actions.
You have to take into account that these conditions have only be able to be diagnosed for a relative short period of time, so a statistical increase does not necessarily represent an increase in actual cases
All of these disorders and issues have always been around, but they were never identified as such and now that they have they've become things to cope with or treat rather than personality quirks or illnesses
Certainly ADD and depression are overdiagnosed but that doesn't mean they're not real things that have become increasingly more common as our culture has changed and developed over time.
Shit like this is why I love Anno.
true, but it seems to be a lot more prevalent in society, or at least much more talked about and as a result, more accepted.
>Certainly ADD and depression are overdiagnosed but that doesn't mean they're not real things that have become increasingly more common as our culture has changed and developed over time.
exactly. As someone with severe ADHD, i can say that 1: without meds, or some form of daily meditation, i am absolutely fucking bananas, and 2: all these normal people complaining about ADD/ADHD are just hyperactive and lazy, and using it as an excuse giving a bad name for people like me. Unlike them and their facke excuses, i manage to cope and do better than them in most things.
i loved it too
"most anime makers are basically autistic" made me almost fal out of my chair laughing, then feel sad after i realized its true, and the fans are no different.
also, Asuka is best girl, confirmed by Anno himself
ITT: People expressing their personal opinions on how to properly treat a documented psychological disorder
Third Reich's treat is the best way.
>Anno names Asuka (above) his favorite EVANGELION character because "she's cute"
This isn't the Anno I know.
Oh he thought someone Asuka related was cute for sure.
Nah man you can just use your force of will to overcome your ADHD. If you just will yourself to stop being hyperactive, you can fix the problem by yourself!!!
That isn't Miyamura, it's the lead for his Cutire Honey LA.
You do get that symbolism isn't supposed to 'mean anything' specific, even (especially) in literary works and that the emotional effect it has is the point.
Wow that's completely wrong and I hope you're trolling. You've taken too closely the idea of relativism. Please look into other perspectives, as you are missing out on a lot in life by dismissing everything that way.
Didn't he marry her and then she ended up cheating on him?
Nah, he's still with his one wife he's had.
I'm pretty sure he didn't divorce her afterward.
According to google, that was just a ridiculous rumor. His wife's just an aritst/author.
Honestly, with something that narratively unsatisfying and ultimately insincere, I'd hardly be surprised with all the complaints.
Shinji did open up to other people, but only because they allowed themselves to connect with him too after shunning him previously.
I'm not dismissing anything worthwhile. The idea that art should stand for some particular view on some other social topic instead of simply being for its own sake is backwards, though explorations of morality and other such ideas are still very much valid subjects and themes of artworks. Art should not substitute for what could be better explored in an essay.