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I was thinking: Ciel cannot die so long as Roa survives, right? Thus, all wounds she sustains will eventually regenerate, correct? Well, just how far does this go? Stop me at the point you think she's not getting up after.

Say, for example, you managed to temporarily kill her, perhaps via decapitation. Then, you dismember the corpse into chunks no larger than your hand. Following that, you place the chunks into a series of BlendTec Total Blenders and render them down to meat-slurry. You then proceed to use a series of high-power centrifuges to separate the water from all other substances in the slurry, leaving it mostly solid. Next, you cover the dried slurry in a large amount of thermite and ignite it, turning the slurry into ash. Now, you gather the ashes and mix them into a large vat of molten iron, which you then cool into a 3-ton ingot. Finally, you chop the ingot into 20 pound ingots and dump them all into the Marianas Trench.

Is she able to recover from that?
>>
Dunno if you're serious, but since the world essentially reverses time for her condition, she could recover even if she was reduced to ash. Regardless of circumstances, she will resurrect as long as Roa is alive.
>>
As long as Roa lives under no condition can she be killed. Time itself will bend to bring her back to life.

In fact the Church unsuccessfully tried to killed her an ungodly number of times though countless methods and failed so they said fuck it and gave her a job.
>>
>>100984397
So, in the OP's scenario, her ashes would somehow worm their way out of the iron, gather together, and reform into the original being?

Well, before being killed again by the whole, "6 miles underwater" thing, that is.
>>
>>100984570
What's the part of "time rewinds to make her alive" don't you get?
>>
>>100984705
Well, yeah, she'd come back, but that doesn't change the fact that, just because she's alive, doesn't mean she's not trapped under billions of tons of water.
>>
>>100984774
She also is an amazing magic user.
>>
>>100984774
...I have to do draw it to make you understand?
>>
>>100984842
She also doesn't wear panties under that robe.
>>
>>100984842
She is also an amazing senpai
>>
>>100984884
I seriously hope they're gonna redesign her bodypaint in the remake. instead of those third gradeer-drawn crosses, something like a Raffaello painting all across her body would be faptastic.
I'm fooling myself...
>>
>>100984774
She'll still come back. Thing about the Nasuverse, there are a LOT of absolute statements, things that cannot under any circumstance be invalidated. You could, for example, throw Ciel into a black hole and she'd still come out right as rain. You could try to destroy her soul and she'd still walk it off. There is exactly nothing you can do to her body that will cause any permanent harm in any way, ever, infinity, the end, period.
>>
>>100984884
As expected of currybutt!
>>
>search fresh currybutt on pixiv
>pages of badly drawn aberrating porn
I got PTSD
>>
>>100985110
MEoDP can kill her for good
>>
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>>100985549
You Shikifags like doing this shit don't you?
>>
>>100985706
Why is Rin so abusive?
>>
>>100985706
This literally happens in one of the bad ends.
>>
>>100985549
Eh...NO. because the concept of immortality resides in Roa, not in her. Ciel is like a link icon, only something Archetype Earth can fuck her for good. if shiki recides the link, it just pops up back again.
>>100985761
Anus shenanigans
>>
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>>100985706
What? Just stating the fact
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>>100985956
Nasu at some point stated that she would come back from that eventually.
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>>100986083
Citation needed because it bullshit.
If something has lines it can be killed. If it can't be killed it just wont have any lines
>>
>>100986188
Lines regenerated duh
>>
>>100986188
Lines don't exactly kill, they just destroy. Points are needed for a true death.
>>
>>100986188
your waifu is a bullshit
>>
>>100986344
>I can see "death" on her body. Although it's very different from other people's, I can still see her death. So, killing her is easy. The "lines" have no exceptions.
She's dead Jim
>>
>>100986083
>Nasu at some point stated
At some point Nasu has stated many conflicting things. Shit Nasu says is not actually canon. Still, I should thank him. his bullshit is what got to to accept death of the author as the preferred method of handling fiction.
>>
>>100986659
no one said the opposite, but she will come back due to shared existence
>>100986816
I fucking know, stupid nigger. I'm just inventing shit on the spot
>>
Hitting Points are required for permanently killing something, tracing the lines just destroys the body which Ciel can recover from, Stabbing her point would properly kill her however
>>
>>100986993
If she has any points, that is.
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>>100987134

Point taken
>>
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>>100986937
The time reverse kick in in less than a minute normally. Shiki spend like 10 minutes watching the moon and Ciel still didn't come back to life
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Anybody still mad bout remake ciel?
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>>100987314
Cutting the lines won't kill Ciel permanently we have been over this

>>100987261
>>
>>100987396
>mad
Why would anybody be mad about superior design?
>>
>>100987396
She's cute and would make a great design for a new character, but she's a completely different character from the old Ciel. Doesn't fit at all.
>>
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>>100987396
remake ciel is based why would anyone ever be mad at this
>>
>>100987568
What if she only wears her hair down like that while she's at school, and her combat garb looks more like her old hair?
>>
>>100987396
You mean Sayaka?
>>
>>100987620
I think her robes would look good with the new hair: the blue combat dress thing looks really good with the old hair though imo.
>>
>>100986993
>The Lines of Death are not the lines at which "an object can be easily cut apart", rather, they are the concept of longevity given form. Strictly speaking, it is not "tracing the lines causing the object to fall apart", but "ending the lifespan and killing the object". To put it into simpler terms, it is the erasure of existence rather than physical destruction.
>>
The real question is and forever will be:

Is senpai senpai without her glasses?
>>
>>100987946

Then by that definition Arc should have died. which she didn't.
>>
>>100988244
She did.

But because she's that fucking strong, she came back.
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>>100988382

She came back to life due to her being connected to Gaia anon.
>>
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>runs around wearing nothing but a cape raping her fellow villagers and tearing apart their bodies, not necessarily in that order

Roa-Ciel was the edgiest Apostle
>>
>>100988244
She had to completely reconfigure herself right down to her atoms. She couldn't stick herself back together, so she basically took the parts, broke them down to their base components and recreated herself from scratch. It drained a fuckton of power from her.
>>
>>100988507
>"What's with you? I can't tell when you're being sincere and when you're not. Let me repeat it again: you killed me. You probably can't imagine it, but it takes a lot of energy to regenerate once you've been killed. Well, actually, it wouldn't be a big deal if you had just killed me, but the way you killed me was something I've never seen before. I couldn't heal the wounds, so I had no choice but to remake my body parts. That's why it took so much energy to revive---"
She was forced to create completely new body for herself
>>
Ciel best turkeyhandle.
>>
>>100984204
What if Shiki kills her?
>>
>>100988673
>>100988691

I stand corrected, carry on
>>
>>100988741
So I've never been able to get a straight answer, are her body drawing things some kind of magical tattoos or are they just body paint?
>>
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It would be pretty silly to crayon on all those magic seals on her body every night just to wash them off in the shower when she got home from patrol.
>>
>>100988934
Church magic anon
>>
>>100989027
Why does that gun have a stock?
>>
Does Ciel's hymen regenerate?
>>
Everything in Nasuverse follows a certain hierarchy. The "superior concept" will always trump the "inferior concept". This is how things work.

Ciel's regeneration is pretty high on the ladder. No matter what happens to her, she'll always come back to life.

But the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are higher on the conceptual ladder than Ciel's regeneration. In fact, in the grand scheme of things, there's almost nothing in the Nasuverse that's higher in concept than those eyes. Those who possess the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception have a direct connection to Akasha (with Ryougi technically being the Void itself). Akashic order is higher than Gaia order, so anything born from Gaia will be vulnerable to them. That includes Servants.

The only things that are immune to it are "perfect" entities, those who do not possess death on a fundamental level. These are the TYPEs, the most powerful beings of each celestial body. Arcueid, too, has no lines at night, since the nighttime is her domain and it's at that point when she's considered "perfect".

Also, because the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are only capable of killing the death of that which the user is capable of comprehending, even if something does have a death, if the user is unable to understand the nature of that entity on a fundamental level, they cannot see lines.

But anything that they CAN see lines on CAN be killed by them. Ciel is no exception to this rule.
>>
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>>100988934
magical tattoos I think
>>
>>100989149
Technically it should
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>>100989241

So when Type-Earth possesses Arc she should have no lines whatsoever regardless of what time it is then?
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>>100989260
Is she part giraffe?
>>
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>>100984204
Whatever horrible method you can think of killing her and destroying the body, the church has already tried it and more.

The church experimented on her for a long fucking time trying to find a way to kill her as they deemed her a hertical existance.

Once they exhaused every method they could think of, the said "fuck it, lets just give her a job. If we cant kill her we will control her"
>>
>>100989437

Any idea how many years they were testing on her? shouldn't be too hard to calculate because of Roa jumping bodies
>>
>>100988691
Indeed, which is something gaia will do automatically for Ciel aswell.
>>
>>100989341
There is no TYPE-EARTH.

If you're talking about Archetype=Earth, she's at a level whom even Ryougi can't see lines on. And according to Nasu, Arcueid is more powerful than Ryougi, which seems to imply that even " " Ryougi can't do shit to her.

Makes sense if you think about it. Despite all her power, Ryougi is still a being born from Gaia. And there is nothing born from Earth that is higher on the hierarchy than Gaia itself; when Arcueid becomes Archetype=Earth, she essentially BECOMES the planet. So an Earth-born entity like Ryougi, despite being the embodiment of the void itself, is still probably lower on the hierarchical ladder. This is just my theory, though, but the "Arcueid > Ryougi" thing does come from Nasu himself.

And, here's the interesting part: Ryougi and Arcueid cannot coexist. There is no Arcueid in the Kara no Kyoukai universe. The only time they're able to meet is in that non-canon scenario in Actress Again.
>>
>>100989514
I'd say at least two years
>>
>>100989514
>After being killed repeatedly by the Church for an entire month in an attempt to study her immortality and to vanquish her as a heretic, she was taken in by the Burial Agency due to her unique nature.
>>
>>100989537
Nope. Ciel' regeneration is too low tier.

Think of it this way: Let's say that Ciel's regeneration is like a System Moderator privilege given to her by the planet.

The Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is a low-end Administrator privilege. A moderator cannot overturn a decision made by an administrator. If an administrator bans someone, there is nothing a moderator can do about that.

That's basically the relationship between Ciel's auto-regen and the Shikis' eyes.
>>
>>100989570

Comparing power which would be stronger a Aristotele or Archetype=Earth?
>>
>>100989815

Strongest lifeform on the planets vs the planet itself?
>>
>>100989815
Aristotle, no question.

Archetype=Earth is an "imperfect" TYPE. Even TYPE-MOON, who all True Ancestors were derived from, was relatively low-tier for a TYPE.
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>>100989670
>low tier
>pretty much is a walking paradox

Nope. Gaia aka THE WORLD brings her back each time without fail. Its pretty goddamn high tier.
>>
>>100989815

Aristotele. ORT itself would make Archtype Earth its bitch, simply because of its terraforming Reality Marble.
>>
>>100989975
It's low tier compared to the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.

As already stated, the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is a direct connection to Akasha, the very Spiral of Origin, itself. It doesn't matter what Gaia wants; the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are on a higher level.
>>
>>100990104

Thats Ryougi's eyes, not Tohnos.

They work differently and for different reasons.
>>
>>100989570
>There is no TYPE-EARTH.

Why?
>>
>>100990146
They work the same.

The difference is in their specs.

Ryougi Shiki is the void itself. She's optimized for the usage of those eyes.

Tohno just happened to obtain them due to his compatibility, but his specs are too low to use them on the same level as her.

They're still the exact same eyes and they work the exact same way.
>>
>>100990212
Dunno.

The Earth was incapable of creating its own TYPE. That's why it asked the Crimson Moon for assistance, and that's how True Ancestors were born.
>>
>>100990252

What was with Nasu's comment that in 3(?) years Tohno's eyes could be on the same level as Ryougi's?
>>
>>100987396
Yes. Of course, what really matters is personality, and it could easily be that the redesign doesn't change that at all.
>>
>>100984204
Ah, test 4032

we're not too sure what happened but we found her floating in the suez cannal some months latter.
>>
>>100990304
Silly question but is Archtype=Earth = Gaia itself? and if so then the highest authority figure on earth is Archtype=Earth, right?
>>
>>100990320
This comment doesn't exist.

Tohno will never be able to get on her level. Their specs are just too different.
>>
>>100990320

No. That was not his comment. That is fanfiction.
>>
>>100990451
Well, basically.

See, the thing is, Arcueid is basically the will of the planet itself, so the Earth and Arcueid are technically the same person. Arcueid basically regards it that way. I guess it's kind of like an alternate personality thing?
>>
>>100990252
Tohno got them as he had Jougan from his Nanaya heritage and then almost died, leaving him with the ability to see death and the fragility of things. He isnt connected to the void.

At least he certainly wasnt in Tsukihime.
>>
>>100990571
>See, the thing is, Arcueid is basically the will of the planet itself, so the Earth and Arcueid are technically the same person

Arc =/= Archtype Earth

When Archtype appears, Arc is gone forever.
>>
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>>100990454
>Shiki eyes are constantly developing, and he becomes more in-tune with death the more he utilizes them
He might reach her level.
>>
>>100990692

He wont an MB is not a valid source for this matter.
>>
>>100990654

Then Shiki's comment in KT about bringing Arc back is rather stupid?
>>
>>100990792
It's canon so fuck you
>>
>>100990598
Nope.

First off, according to Nasu, the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception themselves are a jougan ability. It's said that the Nanaya and Ryougi used to be on pretty good terms. What this seems to imply is that the reason Ryougi's power took that form is because she had the latent talent for it. If not for her latent jougan abilities, she might have developed an entirely different power.

Second, Tohno obtained his power the same way Ryougi did. They both "touched" death, and in turn, this created a link to Akasha. Technically, Ryougi was always the "void" from the beginning, so her touching death merely "mutated" her ability and granted her those eyes. In the case of Tohno, he had no such traits; he merely had a high enough innate compatibility which allowed him to obtain those eyes upon touching Akasha largely by chance.

Ultimately, it's the same thing. Their eyes are the same, it's just that the specs of the users are different.

>>100990654
They're the same. It's all Arcueid. The seed of Crimson Moon within Arcueid is also Arcueid. As Arcueid is the will of the planet itself, the planet, too, is also technically Arcueid. All Arcueids are Arcueid; none of them are separate individuals.

More specifically, each "Arcueid" is an aspect of "Arcueid". Like a piece of a greater whole. The princess, the Archetype, the girl, all three are one and the same. It's just that currently, she's still in the "development" phase. She's like a seed that hasn't fully sprouted yet. But it's not like the flower and the seed are two separate entities, get it?

>>100990692
No matter how far he develops, he'll still never get to Ryougi's level. He can sometimes kill concepts, but he'll never truly get close to her.
>>
>>100990965

Its also canon that he dies not long after the events of Tsukihime, of any of the routes, due to overuse of his eyes and his normal shitty health anyways.

You people tend to love forgetting this fact.
>>
>>100991372

Wasn't Nasu's thing, that everything is canon or something like that? or was that only related to the Extra series?
>>
>>100991372
Eh, that's not exactly set in stone. It seems that the more his eyes develop, the shorter his lifespan will get. So he'll probably live longer in the Far Side routes than he will in the Near Side routes.
>>
>>100991103

When Archtype comes out, the person we all know as "Arc" disappears. It is a vessel for the Crimson Moon Brunestud.
>>
>>100991372
>Its also canon that he dies not long after the events of Tsukihime, of any of the routes
Citation needed
Actress Again is around 2 years after after Tsukihime and he's still alive and kicking
>>
>>100991456

No, it is very much set in stone. Dont try to wiggle around this one, however inconvinient it is for you.
>>
>Implying that Arc won't turn him into a Dead Apostle before he dies
>>
>>100991525
No, it's not.

He won't live long regardless, but he'll still probably live longer in the Far Side routes.

Remember, Shiki was never gonna live as long as the average human anyway. What matters here is what might cause his lifespan to shorten. In this case, his eyes are a primary factor, so if he doesn't develop his eyes too far, he might be able to squeeze in a couple more years.
>>
ITT: People not understanding how Nasu's writing works. He has the power of [Writing Casuality Reversal], wherein he comes up with a result THEN writes an excuse for how it's possible, enabling him to do whatever the fuck he wants with his series
>>
>>100991638
>but he'll still probably live longer in the Far Side routes.

Doubtful, since he did things like kill the poison in Kohaku and defend himself against demon Akiha and fight SHIKI and so on and so forth.

He ends up fuked no matter which route.
>>
>>100991476
Well, maybe not. Shiki doesn't seem to think it's that cut and dry. And the seed of Crimson Moon within Arcueid seems to be rather interested in how he gets around that too.

To Shiki, all Arcueids are Arcueid, so it would be unacceptable for any one of them to die.
>>
>>100991737
He never learns to see points in the Far Side routes. I'd say that gives him plenty of leeway.
>>
>>100991634

Would Arcueid seriously turn him into one before he dies a natural human death? i don't see her allowing him to die before she does honestly
>>
>>100991802

He felt his head nearly implode when he killed the poison.
>>
>>100991634

Just like muh Twilight books!
>>
It should be noted that the mystic eyes of death perception doesn't kill so much as realize the possibility of death. Therefore, as long as there is a means of the victim to die (in Ciel's case, fatal injury after the death of Roa) then the mystic eyes can cause this potential for death to express it'self.
>>
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>>100984204
She cant die, and that's all one really needs to know. regardless of her powerlevel, she is ultimately best girl of all Type Moon.
>>
>>100992069

Except Tsukihime predates Twilight so word that correctly please
>>
>>100992163

Either way, its fanfiction.

If Arc tastes blood at all ever again, she would lose herself to her bloodrage and Crimson Moon Brunestud would happily take over her body.
>>
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>>100992006
But it didn't and his nerves healed up
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>>100992318
>healed up

Every route takes a deadly toll on him, anon. Your fanwanking wont circumvent this.
>>
>>100992301
You realise that she can turn him in DA by giving him her blood right? She wanted to do it in Ciel route
>>
>>100992403
How about you read Tsukihime
>The examination revealed absolutely nothing wrong with my eyes, but only problems with my nerves. Rather than my cut nerves connecting themselves, it seems that it's more like the nerves which were numb healed up.
>...... It seems like my eyes will not go blind that easily. Or it might be that even if I do go blind, I'll still see those "lines".
>>
>>100992410

Which i can see Arcueid doing at some point in the future regardless of his will about the matter.
>>
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>>100984204
Anything that isn't mystic eyes of death won't kill her

Time will basically rewind as soon as she's even somewhat free to put her back together again. Whether to the end of time itself, or even with her pieces separated, she'll eventually come back together.
>>
>>100992605

Is she okay?
>>
>>100992605

I;m surprised she kept any notion of sanity after all that
>>
>>100992727
She was already insane, so maybe she went through a similar thought process as Arc did.
>>
>>100992473

Have you? Go and fucking read Eclipse, fanwanker.
>>
>>100992910
>read Eclipse
Story which we don't know how many year after Tsukihime taking place?
Story which is heavy implyed to happend after Tsukihime 2?
I did
>>
>>100993090
>Story which is heavy implyed to happend after Tsukihime 2?
What complete and pure fanwank you are spouting. I know we have come to expect this from dedicated Shikifags but still, this is a bit much even for you.
>>
>>100993254
>"If we did see each other, it would have caused trouble, right?" "Right. I am a member of the Association, after all. We're not quite on good terms with the Church."
>"And, since I ran out of things to do, I was going to leave here tomorrow. See, this incident was partially my fault, you know? So, I stopped by here for a final check
Shiki works for the Church so far side routes are out
>>
>>100993457

That is hilariously stretching it, fanwanker.

He is on good terms with Ciel in each route. Thats all that comment implies
>>
>>100993457
That line is left vague, you may think that's weaseling because in your mind you're sure it means only that but it definitely does not say he was working for the Church exactly. It could easily just be the fact that he's close to Ciel who would end up reporting Aoko if she got too close, or the fact that he's close to Arcuied who is often hounded by people of the Church which would make meeting him like walking into a war zone. He isn't working for the Church in Tsukihime 2 here.
>>
>>100993628
Are you retarded how being on good terms with Ciel would have caused trouble if he meet Aoko? Not to mention they meet in MB without problem.
>>
>>100993753
>Are you retarded how being on good terms with Ciel would have caused trouble if he meet Aoko?

Are you retarded?

Ciel = works for church
>>
>>100993797
>Not to mention they meet in MB without problem.
Holy shit stop embarrassing yourself
>>
>>100993842
>MB
>using that as part of any serious argument
>a game and storyline almost completely removed from the events of Tsukihime

This is always a sign of desperation in Shiki fanwankers.
>muh Melty Blood
>>
>>100993927
Everything in Nasuverse is canon.
>>
>>100993927
>Nasu: Actually, the original story took place in 1980, a time of "Check it out Soujuurou! The neighboring town built a convenience store!!" "What's a convenience store?". The reason for the change in time was mainly to preserve continuity with other TYPE-MOON games. Thinking of Aoko's age in Melty Blood, if we want to have her age make sense, the story has to take place in 1989.
Give up faggot
>>
If we had sex and I broke her Hymen would it regenerate?
Would it sill regenerate if my penis was more powerful and infinite than the most omnipotent thing in the series?
>>
>all these Shikibabies trying to argue around Eclipse

Jesus fucking christ the cancer.
>>
>>100994114
>brining a characters age into logical relms
>THIS TOTALLY VALIDATES MY ARGUMENT GUYS!!

Grasping at straws this hard is unsightly.
>>
>>100994216
>>100989149
>>100989281
>>
>>100994216

If Roa still exists it will
If he doesn't it won't

Pretty simple
>>
>>100994216
Depends on whether she was a virgin when Roa took control of her body.

And after what is implied that Roa did with her body before Arc came along and killed him in it, I really doubt that she was still a virgin by the point of her "death"
>>
>>100994270
>Nasu changed the year for Mahoyo preserve continuity with MB
>not valid argument
Also first post some counterargument faggot
>>
>>100994493
*to preserve
>>
>>100994493
There mere fact that MB is set after the non existant Saccin route so it completely avoids treading on the main canon of Tsukihime is more than enough of a counterargument for your weak bullshit, anon.
>>
>>100989281
But what if my penis can negate the effect of time?
>>
>>100994574
>MB is after Satsuki route
>MB is canon
Sohow exactly it can't be used argument?
>>
>>100994574
>>100993989
>>
But could she be killed by someone able to override the will of the universe or at least Time itself?
>>
>>100994574
>MB is after Satsuki route
>MB is canon
So how exactly is not valid
>>
>>100995022

Yes.
>>
>>100995061

So it entirely dodges Tsukihime and is treated like the sidestory it is.

Or are you going to start trying to tell me that Fate/Unlimited Codes should be held in the same regard as the main events in F/SN?
>>
>>100995204

Not him but, Is MB considering a sequel or a spinoff?
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>>100995339
Both.
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>>100995339

A spinoff. KT is the "sequel" which known as a "fandisk" rather than anything else.
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>>100995204
>So it entirely dodges Tsukihime and is treated like the sidestory it is
What? It's continuation of Satsuki route
And Fate/Unlimited Codes wasn't writen by Nasu
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>>100995467

Yes, the non-existant route which was done for convinience to separate it from the events of the actual main game.
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>>100995339
In Nasuverse, if it could have happened, it has happened. So it's a spinoff and whatever info and lore you find in it is canon.
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>>100995614
>Yes, the non-existant route
Tsukihime was doujin game. Remake will be canon so yeah
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>>100995339
Alternate time-line that takes place after Satsuki's route in concept

It's not something to judge by the rules of normal canon as even Nasu says there are some differences from Melty Shiki and normal Shiki for starters, but that's mainly just explaining how he can keep up with everyone else in the game so he doesn't lose outright. I think it's just a fan-game that Nasu took a liking to and so he started to help make it more official and worked in some stuff, but in concept it's a story that takes place after Sacchin's theoretical ending.

Which really shows considering he isn't dating her and seems closer to Arc in the game itself.
>>
>>100995739

What about everything is canon don't people understand. if there is any differences between Original and remake they will be set in different alternative universes.
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>>100996020
No, just like with original Mahoyo, the new verison is canon and old doesn't matter anymore
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>>100984204
It's not regeneration. It is the world reverting things to resolve a paradox: She is dead. She is Roa. Roa is not dead. Therefore she cannot be dead.
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>>100996510
>It is the world reverting things to resolve a paradox

Good thing that there are things that are above the world that can kill her permanently huh?
>>
>>100987396

I never liked Ciel anyway.

Akiha is best TM girl.
>>
>>100990517
>No. That was not his comment. That is fanfiction.
>This comment doesn't exist.
Melty Blood Actress Again
Tohno Shiki meets Ryougi Shiki

The three years from now comment was actually amended. It was first ten years, but after examination, will take only three years to reach Ryougi's eyes' level.
>>100990692
This is what Nasu expanded on with MBAA's meeting of Tohno and Ryougi.

>>100991372
>not long after the events of Tsukihime
NO ONE knows when Eclipse happens.
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>>100991103
>It's said that the Nanaya and Ryougi used to be on pretty good terms. What this seems to imply is that the reason Ryougi's power took that form is because she had the latent talent for it. If not for her latent jougan abilities, she might have developed an entirely different power.
The Ryougi do NOT have jougan.
What their specialty was were split personalities that gave them their psychic abilities. Only the Nanaya ever had jougan, and they never fucked outside their families.
>>
>>100996557
Very few things are above Gaia

Maybe Arcuied but Arcuied hasn't really put the energy or concern into really killing Ciel before since Ciel is a non-issue and she can't even kill Roa (or Ciel either in that one ending they do end up fighting briefly), a few Aristotle, Mooncell can fuck with Gaia by reshaping or rewriting the history of Earth but it's hard to say if that's really a power struggle at all or if they just don't conflict with each other directly as one sort of Aristotle to another sort of higher being deal(kind of like how Gaia won't really mess with Arc, and will even help her if possible.), maybe Kiara, and that girl from DDD

However even some of those are questionable
>>
>>100987396
I don't think its bad, but it seems almost too far removed from the original.

Akiha by comparison is barely changed at all, aside from having more detail added from the upgrade to have more than 256 colors.
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>>100991103
>Technically, Ryougi was always the "void" from the beginning,
And no. One of the main differences between the two was that Ryougi was stuck and forced to adapt to her eyes for an entire year, always using them. She couldn't claw her eyes out because she was in coma.

Tohno did not develop his eyes at the same rate because of two things.

1. He was awake, so he would probably have ripped his eyes out if it went on any longer.
2. His growth was stunted by Magangoroshi.
>>
>>100984204
Just imagine all the things you can thrust in her anus and how much times you can beat her to death with a baseball bat hitting his butt, like nigga he is the ultimate BDSM doll for the otaku crew.

she literally can eat bricks with her holes and survive from it just imagine.
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>>100997118
Pay attention. The Mystic Eyes of Death Perception are a direct line to Akasha and are thus above Gaia.

>>100997191
Have you actually paid attention to Kara no Kyoukai?

Listen to what " " said. From the moment she was conceived, her Origin was " ". Normally, those with such Origins would die in the womb as a result of the Counter Force. However, the Ryougi had techniques that would force that baby to live. Ryougi was always " ". She ALWAYS had a direct link to Akasha. From the moment of her conception, she had the specs that granted her perfect compatibility with the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. Understand?
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>>100997450
You would think she would have developed an extreme form of masochism eventually with all the torture and experiments performed on her. I don't know if that had ended up happening if my penis would enjoy that or be intimidated.
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>>100997696
>Normally, those with such Origins would die in the womb as a result of the Counter Force. However, the Ryougi had techniques that would force that baby to live

Wouldn't the counter force just send something to kill the mother and be done with it?
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>>100997832
It's not that convenient.

The reason no one ever returns upon reaching the Root is because the Counter Force cannot allow anything to touch Akasha. But there are loopholes. If you look but don't touch, you can still retrieve something from Akasha and continue to stay human. That's what True Magic is, and the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception fall under that same category.

Even the Counter Force isn't infallible.
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>>100997958
fair enough
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>>100997958
>True Magic is getting information from Akasha
I'm sorry, what?
>>
>>100997696
First point. Nasu places Ryougi lower than Arcueid. You will still be a glass cannon even if you have the greatest power if your vessel is weak.

Getting MEoDP, you are attached to Akasha, no matter the Origin. And it has been said in much later works that Shiki will develop into something of the same level.
>>
>>100998427
True Magic is something you get when you reach the root but don't go in balls deep. It's like an extra.

The ultimate goal of all Magi is to reach the Root. Magicians are basically failures in that sense. They secured a route to the root but didn't actually walk through the entrance. Their magic is merely the result of that connection, same as the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.
>>
>>100997727
Well, she does gladly engage in buttsex at the drop of a hot. Strictly for the purposes of demonic suppression in the doggystyle position, of course.
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>>101000262
I think she'd do it even if it wasn't for suppression.
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>>100987396
I always disliked Ciel's design. This is a good improvement.
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>>100991103
>No matter how far he develops, he'll still never get to Ryougi's level. He can sometimes kill concepts, but he'll never truly get close to her.
In the first place, her origin is void. The only other character so well suited for their respective skillset is EMIYA whose origin and affinity are aligned to sword. I'm not sure Tohno's origin is stated, but unless he also has the origin of void, there is no way he could ever really be on par with her. That being said, he never actually made contact with the root, while Ryougi crossed it, and managed to come back, which only adds to how in tune her eyes are with the root. If Tohno somehow managed to get past the root and come back, his eyes would advance quite a bit, but he still wouldn't develop as fast as Ryougi.
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>>100991992
>>100991634
Not a chance, it's a major point within her own route that if she were to do that she would invariably end up as a demon lord.
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>>101000262
>Well, she does gladly engage in buttsex at the drop of a hot.
Nah, she wasn't given a choice.
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>>101002587
Well his eyes are connected to "death" are hers are connected to " ", at the end of the day that's a pretty decent difference.
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>>101002587
There's also the fact that Ryougi retained the Void personality, which made her compatible with Akasha and the MEoDP from birth. Tohno can't really compete with that.
>>
>>101002587
Ryougi never crossed the root.

The Mystic Eyes of Death Connection can only be obtained by opening up a route to the root.

If Ryougi actually TOUCHED the Root, even she wouldn't be able to return. You're remembering things wrong.
>>
>>101003001
>If Ryougi actually TOUCHED the Root
There was 2 Ryougi who died at the same time.
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>>101003108
That doesn't mean she actually crossed into it.

You don't need to enter the root in order to obtain the Mystic Eyes of Death Connection. The moment the route was established, that was enough. Since " " was already the Spiral itself, nothing more than that connection was necessary.
>>
>>101003193
>That doesn't mean she actually crossed into it.
The way it was portrayed with SHIKI and Shiki at the opposite sides of the root make it seem that way.
>Since " " was already the Spiral itself
The void is the root?
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>>101003435
The Void, the Root, the Spiral of Origin.

They're all names for the same thing.
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>>101003494
>The Void, the Root, the Spiral of Origin.
Why would Nasu do this?
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>>101002587
>Tohno's origin
What could it be?
Madness, unnessesary violence, rape?
>>
>>101003591
I'm still wondering if this exert has much to do with [root]

>Rani: I couldn’t find a way to seal the Ten Crowns, but I can formulate a countermeasure. Through analyzing the Ten Crowns, I acquired the access rights to the “Power of the Beginning” from the moon cell.
>The Ten Crowns are the start of human history, what could be described as the dawn of the light of civilization….
>In summary, it’s the power of the “Origin” (original model) from which human genes began. Anyone human should contain it within.
>So, I will add this ability to your Servant. If it’s power on the same level, the “Ten Crowns” should not be able to “undo” it.
>Gilgamesh: So you intend to access my original form.
>Rani: Correct, we will dive into the digital body of the Servant, directly access the core of the Heroic Spirit, and unlock the root of the Heroic Spirit sealed by the Moon Cell - its mythological formal wear.

>Alternatively, if this was Archer, instead of what Gil said, he’d go “The Beginning….you mean the (R?)root. The original form that not even we know of……” or something like that. Can’t remember the details.
>>
>>101003591
That's not even the half of it.

Strictly speaking, the "Void" that makes up Ryougi's Origin (" ") and the "Void" that is the Spiral of Origin (" ") are technically two separate things. But even so, " " isn't an Origin that should ever exist. Even though the Origin " " and the Spiral " " aren't necessarily one and the same, just having that Origin means that " " Ryougi and " " the Spiral are essentially the same being. In the case of " " Ryougi, she's basically " " in human form. She's not really as powerful as she claims to be, since she's ultimately still human, but she's still more powerful than any human could ever claim to be.
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>>101003830
Nah, I've heard Avenger has the same origin anyway
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Well all powerlevels and whatnot aside, Ciel is still a shit right
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>>101003901
No. The "Void" that makes up Avenger's Origin and the " " that makes up Ryougi's Origin are technically two different things.

They're similar, but not quite the same.

For starters, the reason I keep using " " to describe Ryougi's Origin is because her Origin is a literal blank slate. The logic here is the moment you give something a name, it becomes "something". That's why the moment you start calling " " by a name, it's no longer an appropriate description of it.

What Avenger has is different from that.
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>>101003830
>technically two separate things
Okay--
>essentially the same being
You lost me again.
>>101003811
The root is the root is the root of all Nasuverse events.
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>>101004151
It's Nasu's usual "It's same but it's different but it's still the same but it's also different" fuckery.
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>>101003830
So uhh... they're both two blank slates then?
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>>101004090
She was a cunt in her route. I liked her a lot iin Akiha's though.
Smug is love.
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>>101004210
Like Red Seibah and Seibah, or like Magi and Sorcerers?
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>>100987396
I'm still pissed. Then again, I haven't played Tsukihime 2, so who knows how that'll affect me.
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>>101004415
No, like how Archer and Shirou are the same person but at the same time they're different because FUCK YOU TIMELINES.
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>>101004474
>Tsukihime 2
You mean Kagetsu Tohya, r-right?
>>
>>101004535
Rule of clones; the second something branches off it becomes something different, because different experiences will render a different person.

It's like saying Fate Shirou and Heaven's Feel Shirou are the same, but the difference in life or ideals means they're already far too different to see eye to eye.
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>>101004535
Ahhh, that makes it quite a bit clearer.
Thanks.
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>>101002830
It was of her own free will
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>>101003830
>>101004117
>" " isn't an Origin that should ever exist.
Then why does it exist? How? If it exists as an origin then it becomes "something" right?.
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>>101007242
Ryougi was supposed to die in the womb.

Anyone with " " as their Origin is supposed to die in the womb, die before they even get a chance to be born.

But the Ryougis had a cheat. They had a technique that basically forced Shiki to live.
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>>101007308
Then how did Avenger survive?
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>>101007654

Because his origin is slightly different
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>>101008373
What about that girl from Fate/Prototype who was also connected to the Root from birth.
>>
>>101008532
>doesn't know anything about F/P
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>>101008588
>Manaka is the older sister of Ayaka, and while both were raised to be magi, Manaka was the one their father had expectations for rather than Ayaka. She participated in the Holy Grail War eight years before the main story, and was the Master of Saber. They managed to defeat the other six Masters and Servants, allowing them to finally reach the Great Grail. While her father thought he was guiding them towards a bridge to the Root that they had failed to attain for a thousand years and yearned for for a thousand years more, she had a different plan for it.

>She believed such an outcome was boring, as she had already been connected to the Root since birth, so she instead decided to use it for its real purpose of raising the Beast rather than silly stories about granting wishes. She gathered sacrifices, a number of girls weeping as they fell into the Grail, and even her own father and sister. She tore her father into mincemeat, and while Ayaka could only cry and hide at the sight, Manaka easily found her and prepared to use her as a sacrifice as well. She was killed by Saber before she could do so, and unable to cope with such a betrayal, she died smiling at Saber with an expression that didn't show any pain. He threw her corpse into the Great Grail afterward.
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>>101008740
>as she had already been connected to the Root since birth

Well fuck, not exactly sure tbh, she might be connected to the Root but her origin might be different, not 100% sure tbh
>>
>>101004535
No that can't be it, because that one makes sense, but the whole Ryougi's Origin and Spiral of Origin both being " " but being different doesn't.

Like, I get Ryougi's means blank slate, maybe if you told me what the Spiral of origin's is it'd make sense to me?
>>
I don't know if this thread is still about Ciel but didn't the church actually tried to kill her in hundreds of ways before they finally gave up?
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>>101008740
Here's a gif of the sacrifice scene
>>
This thread.

It's just like the old days. I miss it.
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>>101009730
Sakura a shit
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>>100984397
Then why does Ciel suggest in the manga that Akiha could've killed her if Akiha wasn't holding back?
>>
>>101011028
Plunder is an odd power
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>>100984204
Not gonna wade through the replies, but if it gives you an idea of just what she can come back from...the Church in the manga did things like decapitation, vivisection, and my favorite...dissolved her slowly and while conscious using aqua regia. Over the course of a month they killed her over and over in every way they could imagine. And she felt EVERY. SINGLE. SECOND.



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