Griffith is the best villain ever conceived in any story genre ever.
Prove me wrong.
east v west
messiah v anti-Christ
empire builder v destroyer
who would come out on top?
He's a dick I'll give you that OP
prove yourself right
He couldn't even perform a rape properly.
I mean, the girl barely gave a shit she was being raped, she was almost enjoying it.
He needs to get his shit straight.
He's the most confusing villain ever. I don't know weather to hate him or not. I I just want Guts ram that fucking giant sword through his faggot head.
Yea what the fuck? he even had numerous tentacle beasts at his command, and all he did was have them hold her.
A villain is a person whose nature is unilaterally evil and who commits evil acts. Griffith is not a villain. Destiny merely happens to oppose Guts and him, and since we view the story from the perspective of the former, that merely makes Griffith the antagonist, but not really a bad person. The fact that a large portion of readers can sympathize with him is testament of that.
griffith is a buttslut
You know one time, after I watched the anime but before I read the manga, I read a red herring article on wikipedia that after Griffith revived he, Guts and Ceska re-formed the band of hawks and continued his quest of conquest what should've been
No, the man is a whore, not a slut, you have to pay to touch that ass.
>prove me wrong
I can't prove that.
Like nobody can't prove that Griffith did anything wrong.
and you will never see his tender boypussy.
Please stop breathing.
He fucked the princess before he killed the king, he fucked up big on that one.
He raped Caska and killed his entire remaining family because he wanted to be king.
He's the villain you numbskull.
>actual name is Caska
I'm just going to call her "potato bitch" from now on
might as well
When is this manga gonna end? It's been running like 20 years now.
>not really a bad person
>>but not really a bad person.
He's a charming sociopath and anything but a good person.
>I I just want Guts ram that fucking giant sword through his faggot head.
Guts left him. It was Guts' fault.
>MUH MEANING OF LIFE
griffith is just a clone of sauron and sauron is just a clone of lucifer
It's spelled Casca, with a 'c'. It baffles me that there are still idiot 'fans' out there who misspell 5-character long names in 2014. Are you still reading your shitty hawks scans?
It will never have a proper conclusion, if that's what you mean. It will actually end when either Miura gives up on it or dies.
>not being a part of Gattsu,Caska,Griffissu master race
It baffles me as to why you care.
it'd be kaska, no?
What a faggot
I don't particularly care, especially since it's a manga on a one-year hiatus that I've stopped following closely. Just pointing out how easily it is to notice ignorant fans who have no authority to discuss the manga when they can't even spell the names right.
he could be Italian, here she has been translated as Caska with k
Sometime between a couple years(well shortly after Gigantomakhia ends), and shortly after the end of the universe.
Just because is best friend left doesn't mean he had to go fuck a princess without killing her dad. Like a couple hours before banging her, hell just a couple hours after even, so long as the king wasn't around by morning.
I never implied he was a good person, now did I?
I only claimed he wasn't a bad one. There's a lot of grey area between the two extremes, kinda like how humans tend to be.
Nah, prove it wrong you fag.
Shitposting is a bannable offense, kiddo
So if an evil person sympathizes with another evil person that would make him not a villain but a mere antagonist? Next you'll tell me JayJay is actually a person and not just a plane.
>expressing glee at someone's moronic attitude is shitposting
>being a shitty person spurging over spelling isn't
You forgot to finish your sentence with a dot, senpai.
I don't think Griffith is a villain. He was good at heart at the beginning but hardships of life and ambition turned him into a questionable guy. He just want to achieve his ends whatever it takes, but I don't think he's just evil.
Frieza for example was evil, he's just a sadist son of a bitch who enjoyed killed children and didn't give a fuck about anything but himself and his quest for immortality (only to keep conquering planets and killing people forever).
She was so traumatized she literally turned into a retard that couldn't even talk properly. Wtf are you even talking about
All right, then I'll be more clear. He is very much a bad person.
It's not shitposting to ask you to memorize a 5-letter name, especially since Miura went out of his way to put out the official name spellings years ago. You're fucking retarded. I suppose you see nothing wrong in posting mangafox scans either, and people pointing out how new you are are met with accusations of "sperging out."
I don't think Frieza is a villain. He was good at heart at the beginning but hardships of life and ambition turned him into a questionable guy. He just want to achieve his ends whatever it takes, but I don't think he's just evil.
Griffith for example was evil, he's just a sadist son of a bitch who enjoyed killed children and didn't give a fuck about anything but himself and his quest for glory (only to keep conquering kingdoms and killing people forever).
She only went retard because of the guilt
So how exactly was him raping Casca supposed further his plans? And don't give me some bullshit about strategically demoralizing/antagonizing Guts
Ladies and Gentlemen.
I bet you think Caska is a real life person.
Feel free to consider that every reader that sympathizes or relates to Griffith is "evil" in the same way he is. But the fact that those people exist, so you can either stubbornly keep believing Griffith is a one-dimensional villain or that there is more complexity to his character.
To achieve true power he needed to cut emotional links with his past and betray/kill his old friends.
You're probably the autistic one here for not understanding there's some basic respect to pay to an author's work by not intentionally misspelling the characters names. If you can't even bother to do that much, you're probably an underage idiot for whom Berserk is the first grimdark manga and who read it for the violence and gore.
I NEED GIFS
GIFS OF CASCA GETTING RAPED
Hahaha oh jesus.
You're seriously this mad I call her Caska.
How old is Guts anyway?
Here's a tender kiss.
The Berserk fanbase is well-known for comprising idiots who still read the manga with the shitty BotH scans. Not surprisingly, those appear to be more common during daytime /a/.
You won't get any intelligent discussion with those, so there's no point getting mad. It's your loss, really.
Consensual sex in the missionary position then.
Power obsessed faggot. Literally. Sells his ass for that "kingdom" he desires so much and in the end loses everything because he's too much of a gaylord to care for people close to him. Not only he's not a villain but he isn't the best in anything.
I think it's OCD.
Jews are worse
I mean better villains
To bring himself back to life. He used the child born from the rape as a new body, and everyone knows the Godhand know the future.
The people around him were his family because they were willing to die to see his dream realized. Thousands more had already lost their lives fighting for his cause. What becomes of those already sacrificed if he gave up then? His justification for sacrificing a few hundred more isn't bad at all.
As for the rape, he just escaped a year of being tortured in the most horrific ways imaginable to discover that the two people most important to him are in love with one another. They have each other while he's left to rot in a state worse than death. On top of that, he may have even been interested in Guts romantically. If you can't see why that would make somebody bitter to the core, I dunno what to tell you. It's a Greek tragedy of the highest quality.
>His justification for sacrificing a few hundred more isn't bad at all.
>It's a Greek tragedy of the highest quality.
It's sad people actually think like this.
He's like mid or late 20s
Feel like explaining where he's wrong? Nobody gains anything if all you're going to do is look down your nose at people without trying to teach them.
he's not the villain though.... in fact he's the only reason humanity is still alive currently
guts is like 22 years old
Is that Aji Tae? Didn't he get raped by a jaguar?
Is it bad I can't watch/read Berserk because it bothers me how much my girlfriend wants to fuck Griffith?
Well, can you blame her?
people don't eat toast with the buttered side face down.
It isn't inherently 'wrong'.
That being said, there are people that could argue,
eating it buttered side up is wrong,
because your tongue is on the floor of your mouth, not the roof.
Basically, at the end of the day,
opinions are opinions,
Griffith is the antagonist,
and no-one ain't gotta explain shit.
>prophesy states that the worlds will merge with the coming of the Hawk
>Griffith is the Hawk
>he's responsible for it all
If he hadn't dun fucked the world, he wouldn't need to "save" it again, and "conveniently" benefit himself in a big way.
Griffith is a great villain, he's a stone-cold psychopath who has a twisted view of "friendship", which he only shares with Guts.
>MFW guts descends further into insanity and becomes ambiguously villainous
>MFW the finale is him tearing a remorseful Griffith to pieces with his bare hands
>in full view of a recently-cured Casca, who tries in vain to stop Guts, in ignorance of Griffith's betrayal
I can only dream.
>not using the italian translation
I don't think you can blame him for that really. He didn't know what becoming the fifth king would entail. Besides, it was woven into his fate apparently, if you believe the Skull Knight.
>it was woven into his fate apparently
I thought that the candidates had the ability to make their own fate.
Griffith is not a villain. Gut is the villain. It's all his fault anyways.
Unlike Guts, Griffith's cock is magical. She enjoyed more than when she was fucked by Guts. You got be quite the bitch, to be out done by a guy the looks like a faggot.
Prove it bitch.
Go back to your black and white morality shounen stuff, kiddo.
He only fucked her that good because he smelled Guts peewee in her vajayjay.
>Implying Griffith isn't the pinnacle of pure evil
Guts was only mad because he wasn't the one getting raped by Griffith. He felt betrayed.
>implying you wouldn't choose to become a demi-god instead of a cripple
>tfw you will never get raped by griffith
Isn't he a pretty typical 'end justifies the means' case? Who even had to resort to such drastic measures because of a stupid fuck-up he himself committed.
Guts was heart broken when Griffith said that he didn't think of any of the band of hawks as equals. Then like a break up, he just had to get away from them, because it hurt too much. Griffith saw that his dreams were coming to a close, because he need Guts's abilities. He felt like he had nothing to lose because of Guts, and fucked the princess. Which, cause all the anguish in Guts's life. It's Guts selfish fault for being such a little bitch.
>Prove me wrong.
Tens of thousands had already died to feed his ambitions. Both of the Band of the Hawk and his enemies.
It would be a disservice to them all to stop a few hundred men short.
>Hokuto No ken.
>The anime where villains are not actually bad, just really misunderstood.
It's more like 'if I don't reach my dream then all the people who died for it would have done so in vain'. They're kinda similar, but I like Griffith's plight a lot more. His reasons for sacrificing them seem pretty sound. I'm sure none of them would have complained if they died on the battlefield, so there isn't a huge difference really.
off the mark there OP
Casca was finally noticed by senpai and she didn't like it. Fuck that bitch.
Are you crazy? This is nothing like what happened.
Top 2 most overrated on /a/
>Implying Casca didn't like it
Yeah, it was.
But that's not Shira OP.
Nope. You got everyone's motivations wrong.
Did you only watch the anime? What that anon described is exactly what happens in the manga.
what do you propose hater
Griffith is also a villain, but good villains don't see themselves as villains because they see the rational behind their actions. Frieza has kind of a crappy villain, he was evil because... he was an asshole or something.
If Griffith wants to become a king and create the utopia he longed for as a child, than what do a couple tens of thousand lives mean in the end? You can't create an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
I guess women like when a demon takes away their only chance of motherhood by raping them with his demonic dick.
It describes what happens, but fails at getting the motivations behind the actions.
I'm genuinely interested in hearing your interpretation. Do you mind sharing?
Thats like blaming a couple art school admissions directors for world war 2.
that would fit the name "berserk" hue
Main bitch loved the cock.
I don't Guts was selfish.
He just wanted to be equal to Griffith by having a goal and meaning in his life.
I'm watching Berserk for the first time at the moment, and I'm at the part where he fugged the Princess and got imprisoned. He's an S class retard. Also, should I watch the OVAs after the anime or read the manga first? Which chapters do they cover?
Read the manga,nigger. You should've done it before watching the anime. But nothing is lost.
Anime covers chapters 1-13.
Read the manga. The movies cover what the anime covers right now.
and the OVAs?
1-13,too. But they go few scenes past the anime.
>All they did was have them hold her
The demon with the giant phallus for a head says otherwise
His life. He's a killer. Without Griffith, he would just going to be killing person after person for no reason. He could actually accomplish something under Griffith. Fulfilling Griffith's dream gave him a reason for living. And he threw it away because of Griffiths views about him. This was personal. This was an act in the selfish nature.
Griffith stated that he didn't think any of the Band of the Hawks as equals because he valued independency and chasing one's own dream, not following that of others.
Guts took those words at heart and decided that in order to find his own road he had to leave the Hawks - Griffith's shadow. He wasn't heartbroken at all, rather he found the confidence and volition to leave the known house for the unknown road.
Griffith couldn't take that, he couldn't stand to be "abandoned" by Guts, even if doing so was the very thing he said he'd respect. He chose to duel him and was perfectly fine if Guts ended up dead because "Either with me or I don't care".
But he lost. He lost something he really, really cared for, something he totally wanted to win at.
This made him lose his cool, so instead of carefully keep planning towards his stated goal he tried to haste things, fucking (binding) the Princess to himself, trying to erase the failure at keeping Gut's close from his mind.
Things backfired hard, but it was entirely Griffith's fault.
>guts will never kill the god hands
Miura probably will die first.
It was selfish. But in a positive way.
Under Griffith he was just a servant. Griffith's subordinate. A lesser human. By practicing his own will and leaving Griffith,he became free.
A real human bean
It was selfish, but his reasons were good. They both did what they felt was necessary in pursuit of their dreams.That's why it's a tragedy, I guess. Equally likable characters doing things they must for equally good reasons. They're compelled to butt heads, even if they don't want to hurt each other.
>watching the anime
>before reading the manga
You fucked up hard. Manga is 400% better and covers lots of things the anime didn't.
Stop spouting this shit, thank you very much.
It's Guts own fault.
What this guy said.
Just finished reading the manga, why does it feel different after golden age?
At the expanse of the hawks and Griffith. Yeah sounds like Bro to me. "What about your comrades, Guts?" Guts: "what? Nah, fuck them. I going to something with my life."
What is Guts's dream? He only shown interest in killing and Griffith. If anything it looked like supporting Griffith was his only dream.
Because 99% of main characters died and story went in a whole other direction.
I like it all personally. Did you rike it?
guts left the band to find his own dream and be an equal to griffith, the griffith fucks the princess to speed up the process to become king because he lost his best weapon, guts
>At the expanse of the hawks and Griffith.
Expense of what? I don't remember Guts belonging to them, and they seemed to be already doing fine before his arrival.
>What is Guts's dream? He only shown interest in killing and Griffith.
It's exactly because he didn't know what he wanted that he left to find out.
You really are terrible at this whole thing.
The war was practically finished. He didn't abandon his comrades. They were all going to become knights..But then,Griffith fucked the princess and everything went to hell.
Griffith a shit. /thread
But Jon Irenicus exists
Unless I slipped between timelines and in this timeline somehow RPG games don't exists
You guys don't know what you're missing, your world sucks some major XL penis
Possibly because a lot of the characters worth caring for are dead or out of reach. It almost feels like having Guts fight through a bunch of the apostles to reach Griffith is kind of unnecessary. It doesn't have anything to do with the tragic story already laid out, so there's not as much emotional involvement.
A small part of me thinks the manga should have just ended with Guts dying as a sacrifice in the Eclipse. It would have been a succinct and bittersweet end.
But isn't Griffith a manlet? Why is he topping Guts?
This shit aint realistic
Technically he kills apostles to avenge his fallen comrades, with Griffith being the final nail in the coffin.
He already took vengeance on the Count and Rosine.
But, this still says that he was selfish baby. It's just as much as Guts fault as Griffith. Griffith's words made Guts leave. But, he damn well knew that it could very much be at the expense of Griffth's dreams. He should of know better. He could have waited longer. Hell, he came back to save after anyways. Don't act like Guts is so innocent in the way his own life turned out.
He raped his best friends girlfriend in front of him.
Not a bad guy nope.
Everything about Irenicus is fantastic, but he doesn't have as much personal involvement with the protagonist. His story is all in the past, and the main character is only there to stop him and get his soul back.
I think it'd be really hard to write a video game villain that's as close to you as the player as Griffith is to Guts.
Griffith was interesting when he was human, now he's boring as fuck.
Griffith is like 5,11. Guts is just his bitch. But, Guts loves it, so it all works out.
>But, he damn well knew that it could very much be at the expense of Griffth's dreams. He should of know better.
Griffith was about to be crowned head of the army and all of the Hawks would be titled knights. What the fuck should he "know better" of?
You speak as if Guts should be some sort of obedient vassal of Griffith's instead of being his own persona.
>I think it'd be really hard to write a video game villain that's as close to you as the player as Griffith is to Guts.
Situation being what it is, if it wasn't done in the past it will probably won't be done in the near or far future
you must have some pretty stupid definition of baby, what guts did was totally normal
>A villain is a person whose nature is unilaterally evil and who commits evil acts.
Like Griffith? He's a fucking demon god, bro. Demon GOD. He sees the demons as gods. He loves power and being evil.
Dio Brando. Nigger's evil as fuck.
Femanon here. It's actually easy to understand. Griffith is pretty much the ultimate alpha male. He's an incredible, stoic leader, an amazing warrior, a good confident. He's a really intelligent, really strong, tall, beautiful, has a nice hair. At the same time, he's not perfect, he has some flaws, which only make him more interesting. I know this is probably sound trollish, but I'm dead serious: he's also really loyal to the people who care about him. Remember in volume 11 how he "told" Charlotte he would come back for her, despite being so crippled?
The people around him weren't just willing to die for Griffith, they were willing to die for the Band. That's why Judeau and Pippin sacrificed themselves so quickly for Casca, because if she survives the Band lives on. It wasn't all for Griffith. Also the difference between the people that died before and the people who died during the eclipse was that Griffith was fighting along side them to accomplish their goal, but during the Eclipse they weren't comrades anymore, just sacrifices. And Griffith isn't interested in anyone romantically, even Charlotte. He just fucked her to get his kingdom and he raped Casca to say "fuck you" to Guts
...And he actually came back, 16 volumes later. I actually cried a little when that happened.
>But isn't Griffith a manlet?
Full retard. Griffith is actually pretty tall and strong.
Well,he does have perfect genetics arranged by a demonic almighty god.
That Griffith was spiteful, and childish. Also, Griffith's dream is to be king. He was getting close, but at the time he still needed Guts to succeed.
Just because it was understandable doesn't mean it was the right thing to do..
You're right, but that's going to take a very long time. The Golden Age was a really intense story all on its own, and it seems weird for the remaining half of the manga to be so devoid of any emotional involvement.
Postponing the conclusion for 20 more volumes of emotionless slaughter seems like a bad decision for the pacing. Everything else about the manga is still incredible though, so I guess I can't complain.
I don't wish to shatter your dreams, but he came back to take her because he needed a connection to the Throne, as he did before.
He cares for her as much as you would care for a loyal puppy.
This. Griffith is a manipulative,evil mothafucka.
>griffith will rule over the land
>he destroys the rest of the godhand
>prosperity is brought to the realm
>guts kills him
And let's not forget, he feeds on souls now.
>Guts ruins the world because of his selfish revenge.
They're very minor, but I can assure you they exist.
This is bullshit. At this point, Griffith didn't need anything. Midland couldn't even muster a coherent army anymore. He could have usurped power by himself anytime. But he genuinely loves Charlotte, which is understandable, since she's one of the few genuinely good persons in Berserk, and because she was his most loyal follower. She took a poisoned dart for him!
Griffith still needs the validation of the human authorities to legitimize his country/reign among the humans, hence why he seeked out to marry Charlotte (nobility) and impress the Pope (church) as their holy saviour.
Then as Griffith dies he reverts back to his real body, frail and broken. Guts remembers the Griffith he once knew, the one he let rot in a torture chamber, and weeps.
Nah, he's still really interesting imo. I like how he came back in perfect human form after the whole transformation and continued his conquest, now along with a bunch of demon knights.
She's a naive,delusional teenage girl.
Griffith only gives a fuck a about Midland's throne and he uses Charlotte's love to manipulate her.
Le deal with it.
The world was already fucked up.
I love how people still love painting Griffith as some sort of hero and Guts as a selfish child despite everything that happened.
>But he genuinely loves Charlotte, which is understandable, since she's one of the few genuinely good persons in Berserk, and because she was his most loyal follower. She took a poisoned dart for him!
I question this sometimes....
>They're very minor
> he genuinely loves Charlotte
Yeah, keep dreaming
Daily reminder that Caska was pregnant with Gut's child back then and Griffith fucked him up too.
What a hero.
>Griffith still needs the validation of the human authorities to legitimize his country/reign among the humans
Yes, but you don't necessarily need a link to another monarch to do that. Dynasties are replaced "all" the time, both in real life and in Berserk. I doubt that Gaiseric married another queen or princess before taking over a country.
>hence why he seeked out to marry Charlotte (nobility) and impress the Pope (church) as their holy saviour.
This is true. But he did those for convenience, not because it was actually needed. He's Griffith, he could have taken power without them. Hell, he could have wiped out the entirety of the old nobility and replaced it with his own if needed. Who had the power to resist him? Nobody.
How is she naive and delusional? Griffith actually came back to free her. She was right all along to wait for him. And I admit that Griffith's main love was always power, but he still loves Charlotte.
It's the truth.
The world is final coming into balance, because of him. He's part of Godhand and they can see the future. Guts what wants is to take that all away. He's a child. Guts could careless about the world, and people.
Forgot to specify: pic is proof Griffith isn't a manlet.
>The world was already fucked up.
And he's fixing it, what long-term does Guts have aside from planting his sword into Griffith and his dick in Caska?
Why is there so little fan art of Griffith? I would think that a manga that's been going on for so long would have much more. There are only about 20 pages on pixiv, while Link has almost 700. Is there some website I don't know about where I can find more?
>But he genuinely loves Charlotte
More like he simply has no reason to hate her. I wouldn't exactly say he's passionate about her though.
I remember being shocked about it when I turned 22 last summer.
Supposed to quote >>100971183
>Yes, but you don't necessarily need a link to another monarch to do that.
There was no reason to throw away a loyal puppet like Charlotte who could inspire legitimacy and respect among the humans. He's gonna need that once apostles start doing their shit behind everyone's backs.
>This is true. But he did those for convenience, not because it was actually needed. He's Griffith, he could have taken power without them. Hell, he could have wiped out the entirety of the old nobility and replaced it with his own if needed. Who had the power to resist him? Nobody.
He could have, but would that have been the best course of action? No.
Expecially when he already had a perfectly, blindly loyal tool like Charlotte or that retarded Pope who dreamed about him and immediately elected him as holy saviour of the world.
Does Griffith love Charlotte?
It came to the point where we cant really even say if he loves Charlotte or not.
I mean he was able to sacrifice EVERYONE he ever knew and love in years in a heart beat, and now someone is claiming he loves her.
Well, he either doesnt give a shit OR he really do love her but is perfectly capable of sacrificing her as well, in time of need for his own goal.
Neither are true love.
Or he simply loves power more.
NOW LETS TALK ABOUT SPOOKY MAN!
>Griffith is like 5,11
And Guts is taller, and stronger, and faster.
>Guts is just his bitch
He surpassed him some time in the first 3 years they knew each other, and the first fight was uneven, and close, to begin with. And Guts was an adolescent during the first fight.
Only reason Griffith ever reached his goal was because Guts allowed it to happen. The only reason Griffith didn't die young was behelit plothax.
Pic related, Griffith's real bitch.
Well,the child perhaps survived.
Btw,who do you think the moonchild is?
If Griffith REALLY loved Charlotte, why would he rape Caska?
Spooky man a best
He doesn't love her, but he's loyal to people who are loyal to him. He said he would come back (when he was still human), so he stuck to his own words.
But were Charlotte needed to be sacrificed he would do that in a blink.
BerserkFags are the weeaboo equivalent of GoT/GRRM fags
>They're very minor
Yeah, like psychopathy, emotional ineptness, crippling insecurity, total dependence on others.
>But he genuinely loves Charlotte
N-no he doesn't. The only person he had any emotional attachment to whatsoever was Guts.
>which is understandable
Here's something more plausible: She was the princess, and he wanted his own country, she is a pawn.
I'm not a Griffith apologist because there's nothing he has to apologize for.
It's true, he's not madly in love with her. But he loves her a lot compared to how he's actually capable of loving people.
I agree with everything you said, but it doesn't disprove me.
>I mean he was able to sacrifice EVERYONE he ever knew and love
You're taking that out of context.
> in a heart beat
Fuck no. If you read it again, you'll see he was actually about to refuse. It took a lot of convincing/manipulation to get him to agree, and that was all after being horrible tortured/crippled for a year, and come back to see your 2 best friends in love together. And yet he almost refused.
>And Guts is taller, and stronger, and faster.
That's debatable. He managed to cut off Zodd's arm with his tiny sword, something which Guts couldn't do with a much heavier one.
>N-no he doesn't. The only person he had any emotional attachment to whatsoever was Guts.
And Caska, I'd say.
>That's debatable. He managed to cut off Zodd's arm with his tiny sword, something which Guts couldn't do with a much heavier one.
and Guts managed to cleave Zodds sword and carve into his flesh with one strike, what's your point?
So who's gonna kill Griffith in the end? Place your bets.
>gets butthurt when his "friend" leaves him
>screws up and fucks the princess
>cries after sex thinking about guts
I'm pretty sure Berserk fans have no interest in Japan or it's culture, just the core material of Berserk.
Please stop using words you don't know the meaning of for the sake of making a better /a/.
Guts,everything else would be retarded.
Maybe so, but I have a feeling Miura may want to surprise us.
What about Rickert
No, it's really not. He is taller, Griffith notes that he could hardly lift Gut's sword.
During the fight with Zodd, Guts dealt more blows, on his own, and Griffith only dealt a blow when working in tandem.
It's like I'm talking to someone who's only read the Wikipedia plot summary. You're aware that Guts later beats Griffith right? Not only does he beat him, he does so without the intention of harming him.
Guts is a stronger man than Griffith, Griffith is currently more powerful as a demon.
is Idol Master still the cancer killing berserk?
Nah man, I just came back from a stomach surgery (with complications). I couldnt take any pain killers or sleep pills in 5 days and I had to take part of my surgery awake (its all very medical, not my area I guess) but let me tell you one relevant thing:
If I had a fucking war band that I took most ridiculous chances of staying alive, not even winning but staying alive in battle, I would not sacrifice them because of the pain.
I am telling you, I went trough such pain because of this shit and I wouldnt even betray some shitty friends I got, let alone my own personal war niggers that I borrow my life to.
Oh and I am very pain intolerant person, I remember I fainted when I squeezed a pimple when I was a teen.
So, if pain was a factor, they were never his friends. I know pain is pretty subjective, believe me I know that, they had to keep me from fainting this time, I sensed the pain far beyond fainting (they kept me conscious because of my kidneys or something, medicine..) just one week ago and still I wouldnt let down someone I consider a friend for it.
What about cured Casca?
Spooky man really is the spookiest character.
Do you think Guts will become the new spooky man? He's 2/3 the way there already.
What the hell is GRRM ? If its an equivalent of GoT and Berserk, I'm in, sounds like a fun pass time.
>but you have to take oath to be faithful to only one genre of fun
I really dont, what is GRRM ?
The next important person Griffith is going to kill will be someone we already know and love.
She doesn't have a special role and it's going to kill /a/.
/a/ won't be ready and it'll be something that shocks to death one of the characters. At that moment, we will see Griffith's true colors and the horror of Falconia.
Erika is going to die.
Fate has already decided it.
this, so fucking hard.
what if Guts is the spooky man, but from the future?
He's not a psycho, but even if he were, I wouldn't really see it as a flaw.
>emotional ineptness, crippling insecurity, total dependence on others.
What are you talking about? Those are just blatant lies.
>N-no he doesn't. The only person he had any emotional attachment to whatsoever was Guts.
He likes Guts and Casca as great friends. Charlotte as a girlfriend.
>Here's something more plausible: She was the princess, and he wanted his own country, she is a pawn.
That's how it was at the beginning, yes. It changed when she showed so much courage and loyalty.
That was the smaller Zodd. Apostle form Zodd has an arm thicker than the torso of man Zodd. Besides, I'm not denying that Guts is also very strong.
>He is taller
Not by much.
>During the fight with Zodd, Guts dealt more blows, on his own, and Griffith only dealt a blow when working in tandem.
Griffith arrived much later. so yeah. And Zodd got a lucky hit on him, which made him faint.
>It's like I'm talking to someone who's only read the Wikipedia plot summary.
Wow. I read the Golden Age like 5-6 times in total. And some specific parts even more.
>You're aware that Guts later beats Griffith right?
No, Guts beat Griffith's tiny sword.
>Griffith notes that he could hardly lift Gut's sword.
Yet he did it without breaking a sweat on that same page.
Griffith is fucking evil
No, that's just some sort of joke taken too far.
This shit isnt fun anymore, so:
GUTS BECANE NEW SPOOKY MAN! WHAT HAPPENS TO OLD SPOOK-MEISTER?
Oh and what happens to the doG ?
he's the author of GoT.
I think he means that they both have shit fanbases despite being good
I don't know if that's comparable. I'm sure what you went through is tough, but for Griffith it was over the course of a year. And it was about more than just the pain. Griffith was being dismantled, taken apart piece by piece. Every hope of achieving his dreams, or even just walking on his own two feet, was being stripped from him. The idea of a person being deconstructed like that is way worse than the pain involved in the process. Maybe that's just me though, different people fear different things.
Griffith is closer to the Luciferian ideal with his white/glowing appearance and perfectly calm, charismatic nature.
You think Guts and this crew of guys will be enough to stop the godhand?
Akuma would solo the godhand.
Firstly, you're a sissy.
Secondly, Griffith didn't accept the deal because "pain", but because it was the only way to realize his obsessive dream now that he was crippled. Power has always been the thing he cared the most about. He's almost morbidly obsessive about it. It was horrible for him to live knowing it wouldn't happen. Hell, look at this page. Even as a cripple he was still trying. God, I love Griffith so much...
We'll see it towards the end.
Right now, we're seeing the oh so perfect world of Griffith but you have to wait a bit until we get off the boat.
Currently, everyone is going towards Falconia for a safe heaven but it was all a keikaku to trap humanity itself into a single area while the rest of humanity either has to fight off endless hordes of fantastical monsters or go to Griffiths paradise, where he would enevitably just sacrifice a bunch for himself and have the godhand use another bunch for their own power and whatnot. Because they feed on collective negative emotion, it's brillaint to entrap the entire human race in a single area and them getting them all to be sacrificed or destroyed according to various specification the godhand.
Afterwards, the nobles, who are going to be pissed as fuck that Griffith has rendered them pointless, are going to head from someone we know about all the horrors inside Falconia and an army will be formed to become the last hope to save humanity.
After that moment where all shit breaks lose at the end, we'll see the darkest shit Muria can imagine where madness itself will defeat rationality and evil itself will become the force that overcomes good. It'll be insane, but we'll have to wait a few decades for it.
From what I can see, it's going to be extraordinary and magical in every possible level.
>He's not a psycho, but even if he were, I wouldn't really see it as a flaw.
can't imagine how lonely you must be that you don't see being a Psycho as a flaw.
>What are you talking about? Those are just blatant lies.
>He likes Guts and Casca as great friends. Charlotte as a girlfriend.
Casca was nothing more than a tool, same as Charlotte.
seriously, what is your major malfunction?
oh right, I forgot.
You're a woman
Nope, but the skull knight & elf king might do it.
He's too weak to die first, everyone knows and bets he's going to die because he's simply just a kid with a few cool tricks that puts him above normal humans but he's still just a kid and nowhere useful in a battlefield.
But he might actually grow up to become the next wandering hero once the shit hits the fan and Griffith dies. I honestly don't see him dying.
>He's not a psycho, but even if he were, I wouldn't really see it as a flaw.
You're delusional. Both parts of that retort are written by someone who isn't interested in being realistic.
>What are you talking about? Those are just blatant lies.
Friend leaves, have psycho-sex for no conceivable gain.
>He likes Guts and Casca as great friends.
Casca is just as close to him as any of the other prominent Hawks, this is made clear so many times. Charlotte is a PAWN, get over it, you irrational tween.
>It changed when she showed so much courage and loyalty
Most of which he was completely absent for, all he came in contact with was her infatuation with him.
>Not by much
So he is taller, thanks, finally. I'm 6'0, someone who is 6'2 is only a little taller, but proportionally weighs much more than me.
>And Zodd got a lucky hit on him, which made him faint
What a dandy little lad he is.
>Wow. I read the Golden Age like 5-6 times in total. And some specific parts even more.
I've figured out that you're retarded, don't worry, I believe you.
>No, Guts beat Griffith's tiny sword
He should swing a bigger one then, not to mention Guts also moved just as fast.
>Yet he did it without breaking a sweat on that same page
Yes, I'm aware it's a figure of speech, are you aware that this is extremely tenuous evidence you're relying on? Do I need to tell you what "tenuous" means?
>seriously, what is your major malfunction?
>oh right, I forgot.
>You're a woman
If anything, Griffith was the selfish one
I've already predicted how Guts can kill Slan and Ubik, no clue for Conrad because his powers are completely unknown to me except that he loves to create plague and famine and overall distress among those times, which is more of a clue to his power and origin but it's completely speculation.
Void is going to be killed by Skull Knight and we will know that Skull Knight was the previous guy, like Guts. who had to wait 1000 years to furfill his revenge.
We'll then find out, after Gutts kills Griffith that he will have to also wait another 1000 years for another messiah to be born, become the 5th member of the Godhand, go back on earth and then bring the Astral world together again and bring the Godhand back on earth where only then can Gutts kill Griffith for the 2nd and final time.
Berserk is going to end with Gutts hearing about his and walking into the distance, waiting with a bitter smile that he got his revenge but will have to wait so log to finaly complete it. And we'll see from Skull Knight a completel ''ARGGHHHH FINALLY AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, I'VE DONE IT'' that we won't need to know what happens to Gutts in 1000 years.
Because fate is a spiral and what has happened once will happen again.
Guts Titan Akuma Yujiro Raoh.
godhand the next generation.
The only sensible way to take down a god hand is to become one yourself, prove me wrong. Pro tip: you cant!
Nothing in the Berserk universe is nearly as powerful as god hands. Not even the thousand years old Schierke's mistress or thousand years old Duke of Spook.
Kentaur realized this and said: 'Oh fuck this, I screw up. I made these dog hands too powerful and nothing can take them out. Also I am a perfectionist, so I cant just scramble some bullshit end. Fuck it, ids ogre ;_;' and Berserker ended.
>charlotee was his girlfriend
>casca was a good friend of his
how delsional and/or retarded are you?
>what if Guts is the spooky man, but from the future?
Metaphorically speaking that already seems to be true.
>can't imagine how lonely you must be that you don't see being a Psycho as a flaw.
I don't see what my loneliness has to do with it.
>Casca was nothing more than a tool, same as Charlotte.
Actually, he liked her quite a lot too. In volume 12, again, after he fainted, he has a dream where he was married with her. On the next page, he even says that the situation "isn't so bad".
>seriously, what is your major malfunction?
oh right, I forgot.
You're a woman
>You're delusional. Both parts of that retort are written by someone who isn't interested in being realistic.
No, I just understand Griffith in a non-superficial way since I spent so much time reading/watching Berserk, and hours of reflection.
>Friend leaves, have psycho-sex for no conceivable gain.
Pfffttthahaha. What the hell is psycho-sex? He didn't beat up and murder her. She enjoyed it quite a lot, in fact.
>Casca is just as close to him as any of the other prominent Hawks, this is made clear so many times.
>Most of which he was completely absent for, all he came in contact with was her infatuation with him.
He still saw her coming to deliver him, risking her reputation, and taking a poisonous dart for him.
>He should swing a bigger one then
Maybe he should have, but it was a bit too late to switch at the time.
Here is the next page... How can anyone deny that Griffith cared about Casca? This mindless demonization of Griffith is just sad.
>There are people who actually believe that Griffith will be killed by Guts
News flash for such people, Berserk will have a tragic ending with Guts dying there is no possible way that Guts can defeat Griffith (Femto) and the God Hand.
>guts becoming a god
You're a fucking idiot and you should die.
Did you forget about the whole ''fuck you guys, I'm human''.
The moment Guts becomes an apostle is the moment he loses his humanity and becomes boring. It's Gutts being the pinical of human strenght overcoming all odds with only his strenght and will to fight.
THAT will be how he defeats Slan and Ubik.
The point of the Godhand is that they are so fucking powerful that it's inconveivable to them to be defeated or even attempt to damage them.
A fight with them will be the hardest thing Gutts will have to fight and he will skirm not just his life but his very sanity to even attempt to kill one.
Slan can be defeated by Guts and so will Ubik.
Void will be defeated by SK and no one else and Conrad is an unknown imo.
I still like to believe that this vision was caused by Ubik.
The kid we see is the child Caska is holding from Guts and names him after him after Guts take whatever is left with the Band of the Hawk and Caska stays with Griffith.
iirc, the anime never shows Griffith's face, we only see it from his POV which makes me wonder if his face never recovered.
Fuck, it was literally more than one fucking year since last chapter.
What is he fucking doing? Another manga? If so shouldn't he concetrare on Berserk because it's popular as fuck?
What if Griffith planning? To sacrafice the whole world to become a ultimate God or something?
Because at the moment he looks more llike a hero than Guts. Killing evil inidan guy, restoring balance, people and monster living in peace in his city etc
but its true, women tend to become very crazy when fandom is involved. Not saying that guys don't get crazy either, but women tend to take things to the extreme.
I bet you're either fat, or a redhead. Possibly both.
Yes. Supposedly he's going back to Berserk once he's done with that.
"isn't so bad" doesn't translate to "liking someone"
getting a blowjob from someone you hate "isn't bad"
finding money in your jacket "isn't bad"
Newsflash, fate is a spiral, what has happened once will happen again, Griffith is playing a match against the Idea of Evil and Gutts is the backup plan if Griffith decides to doom humanity rather than save it.
What is going to happen is that Gutts will free Caska and break off from his ideas of revenge.
Griffith will become king and find out that his dreams have finally been realized. He has gotten everything he wanted. And that's going to twist him.
Stop trippin', man. The God Hand will be dealt with. The Skull Knight seems to match them in power pretty well, and the plane sink probably left them weaker or more vulnerable in one way or another.
>someone asked you "how?"
>you called him retard, wished him death and then spewed out text of irrelevance
How do you kill a god hand (without being one) then?
>the whole point of Im human yada yada ching chang chong
Let me ask you again: How do you kill a god hand (without being one) then?
Being possessive and being caring are two separate things.
>No, I just understand Griffith in a non-superficial way since I spent so much time reading/watching Berserk, and hours of reflection.
oh, I'm sure you do.
>Pfffttthahaha. What the hell is psycho-sex? He didn't beat up and murder her. She enjoyed it quite a lot, in fact.
remember his crazy eyes, and the whole fucking act that he was thinking about his "best friend" while fucking what you calls "the woman he loves"?
Thats a shit theory.
By attacking them when they're on the mortal realm, maybe.
The only time when Guts attacked a God Hand (Femto) it was in their own home plane.
>The God Hand will be dealt with.
But how can you fight beings of causality? It's like trying to fight the flow of Time itself. The only thing to do is to either join them, lose to them, or reduce yourself to an animal like Casca's current state where their presence no longer exists.
What manga is he doing? Couldn't find anything expect some old finished one-volime books
Why he decided to make another manga in the first place? Berserk is popular as fuck. And I don't think Guts can beat Godhand without at least 150 chapters of development,training and party building. Godhand are powerful as gods
Yeah but those are not their core beings, they are more of avatars or pupets or what ever.
That is said somewhere in the text.
>have infinite power
>proceed to make yourself mortal
To me, you sound like a retarded one..
No, the anime does show his face.
I'm actually pretty underweight and I have brown hair.
He also showed jealousy often when he saw her with Guts. In fact, Miura went out of his way to show that. Also, he jumped on her.
Right, but they often go together. Griffith is the supreme alpha male, so it's obvious he's gonna be possessive of his loved ones.
>remember his crazy eyes
They weren't particularly weird compared to his usual eyes.
>and the whole fucking act that he was thinking about his "best friend"
You're taking that out of context.
>while fucking what you calls "the woman he loves"?
You're confused. At this point, he still saw her as a tool. It's later on that it developed into love.
It's some future-setting miniseries involving a strong wrestler and a little girl. So far it's pretty good.
and Guts is a good guy?
he's killed children
>How do you kill a god hand (without being one) then?
You stab it to death, like any other Apostle.
The difference between an Apostle and a Godhand is both big and minor. They are the same but simply more powerful and do not rely on physical abilities wheres the Apostles only use their first, the Godhand use manipulation or astral powers. The bigger issue is more that we've seen so little of them that it's impossible to predict how vast their powers are.
Like Guts told Schierke when he stabbed Slan.
She remarks that his sword has cut through all those astral beings that it's technically possible for Guts to kill one with his sword
It's what is going to happen, I already predicted the ending of Berserk to a very close degree. You simply didn't notice the insane amount of foreshadowing Miura left everywhere after the Eclipse.
Gutts building an army, Gutts being friends with the daughter of a high noble who's approval is needed for war, Guts comments that merc only want money and nothing else, Serpico shown as a tactician on the level of Griffith, Witches being more powerful than an army of 10,000 and Griffith already starting to hunt for them to protect himself even though nothing happened yet.
The signs are fucking everywhere.
>He also showed jealousy often when he saw her with Guts
fucking when did that happen?
>They weren't particularly weird compared to his usual eyes.
so, eyes FULLY opened, with a glaring look is his every-day face?
>They weren't particularly weird compared to his usual eyes.
not really. fucking someone while thinking of someone else doesn't really leave much for debate, in my book anyway.
>You're confused. At this point, he still saw her as a tool. It's later on that it developed into love.
now you're pretty much contradicting yourself there, champ.
just face it, you've been reading too much into Berserk. You've over-analyzed it, and warped what you understood to fit what you want to happen.
That's what makes him a good guy.
Guts care about people, even when he has to use kids and kill them by accident.
Griffith wouldn't give a shit if he sent a child to their doom while Guts would try everything in his power to make sure the kid doesn't die, even if he's using him.
>just harassed 1 planet
>not space hitler
That was Oberstein.
And Yang was the worst villain of the show, deciding to rebel rather than just submit because he had different ideals.
Oberstein doomed millions to save even more whereas Yang killed millions for no gain in any possible way. Reinhart saved the galaxy form the most stupid group war that never ended by both sides not giving a shit and sending both to war endlessly without seeking victory.
>fucking when did that happen?
Do you want a list? Because it happened many times. I can provide proof, but it's gonna take a while, because I have more pics to post.
>so, eyes FULLY opened, with a glaring look is his every-day face?
No, but it's pretty common for him. Pic related.
>not really. fucking someone while thinking of someone else doesn't really leave much for debate
It was his best friend, he lost his first duel to him, and he was gone. He doesn't want to fuck Guts.
>now you're pretty much contradicting yourself there, champ.
No, I said several times he started loving her after he understood her devotion, which was after he had been to prison, not before.
>just face it, you've been reading too much into Berserk. You've over-analyzed it, and warped what you understood to fit what you want to happen.
I totally disagree. I'm not one of those delusional people who interpret reality as they want it to be. I'd never be like that. I try to be as objective and truthful as possible at all time.
You're so wrong. Wait a moment, pic incoming.
>Yang is a villain
Nigga you for real? Yang was the hero space deserved, you just have a hardon for nazis
>They weren't particularly weird compared to his usual eyes
They were his predator eyes, you retard. The entire scene was predatory and impulsive.
>You're taking that out of context.
The sex IS THE CONTEXT.
>You're confused. At this point, he still saw her as a tool. It's later on that it developed into love.
Oh, how nice of you.
>Griffith wouldn't give a shit if he sent a child to their doom
No. Just no. Read the beginning of volume 7. Page 5 to 27. Miura blatantly explains that the death of a kid under Griffith's orders changed him forever, even leading him to prostitution so less people would die. Go read it, seriously. Griffith is empathetic and feels guilt when people die under him.
>You're so wrong
It better not be about the part where Griffith sold himself to save his men from death.
The best man doesn't make him the most honerable man.
History may have written Yang as a brilliant hero, but it was written one sided.
The nazi started their own revolution, got the best men on the board and stopped the entire fucking war with a bit of their own inner struggle.
Yang had idiots on his side and no one really giving him a hand in anything, even his own man just sat around and did shit.
Yang killed millions and his wife was happy.
Tell me a single thing that was accomplished by rebelling against the Reinhart.
he definitely used to be that way but now he too is a monster, there are no good guys in berserk except from maybe Judeau
Not the guy you were talking to, but Griffith changed a lot since the page you posted.
That was before he became a member of God Hand and willingly sacrificed everyone for his own goals. He's beyond doubting himself now.
>prove me wrong
easy, he isn't shishio
That's why he tryed himself first. Griffith did what he did, because he thought "fuck it, I don't care anymore."
Now, for Griffith being jealous of Casca and Guts... Evidence one. There's more coming, just hold on.
>Do you want a list? Because it happened many times. I can provide proof, but it's gonna take a while, because I have more pics to post.
yes. Give me a list.
>No, but it's pretty common for him. Pic related.
oh its nothing he does unless he's intending to scare, confuse or just for shits and giggles.
>It was his best friend, he lost his first duel to him, and he was gone. He doesn't want to fuck Guts.
if you think about someone while fucking someone else, that's essentially that you want to be with that person, and the "open crazy eyes" is a way of mentally projecting it.
>I totally disagree. I'm not one of those delusional people who interpret reality as they want it to be. I'd never be like that. I try to be as objective and truthful as possible at all time.
except this is fiction, and you are like that.
oh, and according to you, what you think is objective HAS to be objective?
His ideals were twisted by the Eclipse so it's irrelevant.
Whatever compassion he might have felt that killing people by accident due to his ideals turned to ''necessary casualties'' for his ideals.
Yeah, trying to make the world a better place. What a dick, huh?
I'm dumping the list.
Here he tries to save Casca despite being crippled.
Gutts is as good as they come. He still has a heart of gold, he just doesn't always recognize it in time.
He also killed children.
>heart of gold
>has killed countless men and children with no remorse
Here he notices Casca crying for Guts again.
I remember you.
You're that fucking landwhale that kept going on about how Griffith didn't love Guts and how Casca was a whore.
He never killed people who didn't attack him first, save the few Griffith had him assassinate.
Here he's pissed that Casca is taking care of Guts while he's stuck with Judeau.
Right, that was me, but I'm far from being a whale. I'm pretty underweight.
There isn't any room for him to doubt himself now. If he let grief overtake him at this point all the hard work and sacrifice, both on the battlefield and in the Eclipse, would be meaningless. Griffith isn't the kind of character to let his friends die for his cause only to throw it away in a moment of self loathing. Also, he can see the future and stuff now so that probably helps in making his future decisions pretty easy.
>Gutts is as good as they come. He still has a heart of gold, he just doesn't always recognize it in time.
He cares about kids, and his friends.
He's not a very altruistic person, nor is he a very nice one.
Only because he shat bricks in front of Munsu
Here he sees them hugging.
Too many Guts fags out there. I'm sorry your waifu isn't prefect. He fuck up his own life, and is a bad person deep down.
The way I saw it, Griffith was jealous of Caska because she was winning the Guts
Here he jumps on Casca because of his frustration.
Griffith isn't making the world a better place.
He ironically made the world a worst place so I don't know what the fuck you're on able.
What Griffith did was open a generator that merged both the Astral and the normal world and let in an insane amount of beast everywhere.
This will cause everyone into a mass panic to save themselves since the only place in the whole world that is safe is Grifith little paradise.
And like sheep going to the slaughterhouse, all of them will be happy to have a shelter rather than stay outside with all the monsters.
Griffith caged the entire human race and it's very likely that he's going to create an endless Eclipse for himself and his Godhand while having an endless amount of people coming seeking refuse, so numbers are hardly the problem and Falconia is huge, so losing a couple dozen people/couple hundred people in a few million isn't a big problem right?
Griffith doomed the world, he didn't save anything or make it better.
Gutts will not seek to destroy Griffith's cute little paradise for his own revenge, he doesn't have the army or number for a one man group to just kill Griffith. It takes money and whatnot to do so.
Griffith is evil and doesn't care about people, you'll see.
Failing to fucking SAVE SOMEONE IS NOT JEALOUSY! YOU HAVE FAILED BASIC HUMAN EMOTIONS
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!
Here's the last one. He overhears Casca being in love with Guts, and, along with his hallucination, causes him to flee.
No, but it's evidence he cared about her.
>Right, that was me
Well there we have it
I prefer Aji Tae more because of his dynamic between Munsu and himself.
Self defense motherfucker.
He felt like shit when he killed a kid by accident.
Well he's got the damn nicest heart from the entire cast. He's not completely altruistic but he still cares, like that time he used a kid to get the attention of those bugs.
He does care for people and their well being if he can.
>all from the rescue
she is sad, he notices this and think of it.
still not jealousy.
that one I could give you, but I could also make the argument that its a "look of hate" since he blames Guts for it.
cant see shit captain.
lust ain't jealousy.
He's not pissed, he just notices Caska is caring more emotionally about Guts and connects the dots.
i.e. my interpretation of what Griffith's face is evoking.
>"He saw me!"
>hey guys, you know how i said how much i love you all and how valuable you are to me, and how the band is like my home? well yeahhhhhh... sorry, but you're going to be sacrificed to demon gods so i can get pimping powers.
>Implying it will ever be over
He will suicide
Finally chemo from the Griffith groupie.
Self defense until he realized it was a harmless kid.
And it's also that exact time he got doubts about following Griffith.
Not being equal, thinking he's just a tool and killing people for reasons other than his own.
god, you are just way to stupid for this?
first off, caring for someone doesn't mean that you're jelly over a relationship.
secondly,failing to save someone isn't evidence that he cared about her, its just to show that he feels weak and useless.
If he has to kill someone for his own goal, he will. That's all there is to it. And right before the transformation he was yelling at Guts to get away from him. "Never again..." or something like that. He's done with having strong feelings for people who will distract him from his only desire.
>people are still arguing about Griffith
Let's just discuss how fabulous Roderick is.
Who designed Gutts bags?
>refusing to pronounce names how they are spelled
>and is a bad person deep down
>not thinking early Guts was fucking badass
I miss this Guts. Too many pixies and girlies around him, making him all soft and shit.
On the one hand, I fucking love him, charming, helpful, loving, kind, etc. He's great.
But on the other, it;s screwing my ideas of Farnese falling in love with Serpico and then him announcing that they're related and he simply can't and putting Farnese into an emotional breakdown.
But he might not give a shit and it might just be a show for Farnese as they taked beforehand about manipulating Farnese so that they can be together, so I'm expecting a possible backstab of some kind if shit hits too much the fan and he can't take it.
I agree that the Eclipse changed him. To be honest, /a/, I'm not even sure Griffith is a good guy anymore. We'll have to see later. However, I have no doubt he was good before the Eclipse. I mean, a really good man.
>still not jealousy.
It is jealousy because he notices she cares about Guts more than him, now.
>cant see shit captain.
Now, be fair. It's obvious Miura was trying to show how Griffith felt with all those panels i showed, and he felt jealous.
>lust ain't jealousy.
No, but lust can bring jealousy, and it did in this case.
Yes, he notices that, and it pisses him off.
I love Bagserk...
BUT HE WAS JELLY. He wanted Casca for himself, as evidenced by all the panels and by his dream.
Also, here's Griffith trying to get the Hawks to stay away from him after he realizes what's going to happen. This shows he didn't want to sacrifice them at first.
That and bags
>he didn't want to sacrifice them at first
but he did. and that makes him evil.
That's the Guts that came out right after the Eclipse. He was fucking out of his mind and for good reasons. He had time for his brain to get back to normal a bit.
Even early Gutts had a good heart like when he killed that girl who showed kindless. I mean, he fucking threw up after killing her. It was like whatever was left of his humanity was stabbing him, reminding him not to trust anyone.
Maybe. Or his actions will bring harmony between both Humans and monsters. People think Godhand is bad, but that really only because the series is in Guts's perspective. They can see the future. For all we know, they are doing what is right for the world. And people like the skull knight is trying to stop them because of he's selfishness.(lost he's kingdom, because of them.) Griffith is just the poster boy for them to make the world a better place. God's will.
Don't forget that Griffith's soul is bright and embracing. Guts's is dark and frightening. I think Griffith is really better for the people than some fans believe.
He wanted GUTS you shit
GUTS was the only one he cared for
GUTS was the one who made him forget his dream
> I'm not even sure Griffith is a good guy anymore
He manages the only known flourishing bastion of humanity and gives orders to assist vagabonds on their journey to his kingdom.
The bar has been lowered pretty far but its safe to say Griffith is a better person than he ever was.
>BUT HE WAS JELLY
>Farnese falling in love with Serpico and then him announcing that they're related and he simply can't and putting Farnese into an emotional breakdown
Honestly, that would be way too predictable at this point. I'd like to see something else.
He always had a good heart, but he never says shit like that anymore. Brutal truths about life and war that are intimidating to people around him. He's definitely gotten wearier and softer, which sucks.
I will and might agree with you that Griffith might have been a good guy past his whole plans to take over.
The thing that convinces me the most is when Griffith finds the behelit in the water.
At that moment, he notices that everything, him building his band of the hawk, hiis falling, and his suffering and torture were all according to fate and he just laughs at the madness of it all.
And then he sees Gutts, the person who caused all his recent suffering and tells him to stay back, that if he doesn't stay back he'll likely turn into something he doesn't want to become.
And then the Eclipse happens and the Godhand subconsciously change his ideals. Like Gutts says on the valee of the swords grave, the Griffith we knew is dead.
Griffith is an Alexander-esque character in that he will always be really polarizing and depending on your point of view he can be seen as really good or really bad. From Guts' point of view, for example, Griffith is the epitome of evil, which, comparing the situation to Alexander, would be how the Persians/people in the Middle East/India view Alexander, whereas most other people outside of Guts/his group view Griffith in an extremely positive, almost idolatry light, which can compare to how the Western world views Alexander.
Black & white arguments of these characters doesn't really work - it's a matter of viewpoint.
We, as readers, have the opportunity to see everything that happened, and we should all have the same point of view, and yet even within this there are disagreements as to whether or not Griffith is good or evil. I personally, for example, view Griffith as an overwhelmingly evil character, certainly a villain, but that doesn't make my viewpoint correct. It's just my perception of him.
I don't deny it was his best friend by far.
Yeah, but then there's the whole fantasia thing.
>Someone finally agrees with me
I kinda hope that turns out to be untrue. Griffith was my favorite character leading up to the Eclipse, I think it'd suck if Guts was the only decent character left for the entire second half of the manga. It feels like there still needs to be moral ambiguity in Griffith's choices and justifications. It'd be really dull if he just turned into a typical anime villain who wants nothing but blood and carnage like the apostles.
> Betrayed and got all who ever trusted him with their lives killed on porpoise
> Fucked best friend girl in front of him
> Created a kingdom of lies and religious deceit for humanity
> brought hell back with him when resurrected
He is a fucking son of a bitch mattes... Not that any of that makes Gutts good or anything since he is a murderous bastard too but Griffith is fucking evil.
Also... kinda related question: Do you think Gutts is "special" as Griffith is? I mean... he keeps surviving unsurvivable scenarios. Do you guys think he is part of some kind of greater scheme destined to kill Griffith or that he has been forgotten even by death and it's outside of the control of god himself?
I mean... i can hardly believe he is just a normal mortal man with just raw strenght...
I know it's predictable as fuck but I want it to happen so badly. Or maybe some actual incest but Serpico doesn't want to cross that line.
>Griffith 's soul is bright
Remember the part with the Emperor, those that are closest to the light hold inside them the deepest of darkness.
His actions have only brought harmony between Monsters and Human so that humans will not fear the wold who reveil themselves not be have sheep clothing but to be actual wolves.
Griffith has doomed the entire world except for his little pot of land. He fucked the world more than you imagine he fixed it.
Also that whole prophecy about the dark age and the Godhand crackling about it.
I'm sure people who only think about the good of humanity, about destroying your humanity to become a monster who feeds on humans, only care about doing the best thing for human kind in general.
You're completely deluded.
He got older. That was teen edgy as fuck Gutts who didn't give a fuck, wanting to show the world that nihilism and war and everything was fucked up but he calmed down over the years of people not listening to him. He says pretty much the same speech to that girl after killing the butterfly apostle that he's full of darkness and everything is death and war around him.
Gutts just accepted his reality and got older.
What are the chances of this ending soon so i can finally start reading it?
>Griffith be a Alexander-esque character up in dat da thug will always be straight-up polarizin n' dependin on yo' point of view his schmoooove ass can be peeped as straight-up phat or straight-up bad. Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! From Guts' point of view, fo' example, Griffith is tha epitome of evil, which, comparin tha thang ta Alexander, would be how tha fuck tha Persians/playas up in tha Middle Eastside/India view Alexander, whereas most other playas outside of Guts/his wild lil' freakadelic crew view Griffith up in a mad positive, almost idolatry light, which can compare ta how tha fuck tha Westside ghetto views Alexander.
>Black & white argumentz of these charactas don't straight-up work - itz a matter of viewpoint.
>We, as readers, have tha opportunitizzle ta peep every last muthafuckin thang dat happened, n' we should all have tha same point of view, n' yet even within dis there be beef as ta whether or not Griffith is phat or evil. I personally, fo' example, view Griffith as a overwhelmingly evil character, certainly a villain yo, but dat don't make mah viewpoint erect. It aint nuthin but just mah perception of his muthafuckin ass.
>Gutts just accepted his reality and got older.
>>Someone finally agrees with me
The issue is that people, when they talk about Griffith, talk about how evil he is past the moment Gutts touches Griffith and causes the Eclipse and everything after that.
Before that, Griffith isn't THAT evil and just kills people who threaten to kill him.
And the part where he fucks the princess imo is just him putting equality.
He lost something important and wanted something big to compensate his loss rather than accelerate his plans imo.
But even that acceleration was controlled by fate which is funny.
Griffith lost his humanity, like everyone else who became an Apostle.
But like we've seen from the Count in the early Berserk, Apostles still hold some bits of humanity, so who knows.
He was a teen back then, now he's nearing his mid twenties (22-23 iirc) He's like an old war vet.
Maybe in the next decade or two, so very high.
I have absolute trust in Miura from what I've recollected. The ending is already on the horizon and everything is already going according to fate.
didn't he even think about him during the sex? Or was that only a thing in the movies. Can´t remember it correctly, since two or three pages got turned into like ten minutes there.
>We, as readers, have tha opportunitizzle ta peep every last muthafuckin thang dat happened, n' we should all have tha same point of view, n' yet even within dis there be beef as ta whether or not Griffith is phat or evil
Shit, this puts everything into a new perspective.
The movie really implied it more than the manga.
Griffith cared for the entire Band of the Hawk, that is the entire reason the sacrifice had any meaning. Sacrificing someone you care nothing about doesn't work. Guts was the most important part of this sacrifice because it was the only person Griffith deeply cared for enough to risk his own life.
Now Griffith cares for no one, (lol Charlotte, how many visual cues do you need that he didn't care) that is the entire point of the sacrifce, to cut the love from yourself so you lose your humanity and become a true demon inside. After you have killed the most important people in your life there is nothing you won't do.
I don't understand why the grand majority of readers see Griffith and Femto as the same person. Granted, it's easy to use the same name but he's not the same person. Griffith was dissolved and gave life to Femto.
I don't know of any non-fringe belief system where the sins from a former life weigh on the current.
Griffith is a horrible man. That's not disputable. His actions have cost the lives of much of the world as we've seen it and limited the world to relatively small sanctuaries that rely on powerful entities to maintain.
Femto has done very little that could be considered damning, though. He's very much made the best of a wretched situation and even seeks to unite the world's intelligent species in cooperation.
He did stare at Guts almost the entire time. He was obviously doing it because of Guts.
Can't wait for their official consummation once they get married and he gets crowned King.
I wonder if he'll mind break Charlote the same way he mind broke Caska.
Don't think anyone can handle Griffith's demon cock.
He has to wait for Gutts to arrive before he can get it up.
What? Femto has Griffith's ambitions, personality, emotions and memories. He is for all intents and purposes the same person, except he can bend space now.
>Now Griffith cares for no one, (lol Charlotte, how many visual cues do you need that he didn't care)
He does care about Charlotte, though. See >>100970545
Griffith would never do such a thing to her.
Griffith has canonly a dick that can pierce the heavens and mind.
He can literally have a harem of mind broken girls around him.
>Griffith would never do such a thing to her.
I wonder about that. He obviously sees Charlotte as a tool so he clearly doesn't have any reason or purpose for his queen in his kingdom other than for public image.
He can completely mind break her now that he has no use for her.
>we may actually see the day of another mind break in berserk
Those are fairly long reaching assumptions seeing as we only know he keeps at least a hefty amount of his memory.
Contrary to that, the God Hand refer to him as reborn and don him with a new name.
Except his humanity is lost. It's the same Griffith but twisted.
>He obviously sees Charlotte as a tool
This is outdated. He hasn't seen her as just a tool since his rescue.
I disagree. Griffith really feels different since the Eclipse. He seems more empty and soulless. It's just not the same anymore.
However, Guts agrees that Griffith is the same.
A dick that can slay even the mightiest of foes. Say what you will about him, but that's pretty sweet.
Now I'm thinking that perhaps the Four Godhands will stab Griffith in the back - Perhaps Skull Knight once was just like Griffith, but the Godhands used him like a tool.
That would be interesting, Guts meeting depowered Griffith that has lost his Castle and all his citizens to hordes of Demons.
>He hasn't seen her as just a tool since his rescue.
He's shown signs that he cares for her, as he spends time with her during a war but I think it's just for show.
Like something out of a fairy tale to be honest
>the handsome general spends time eating a picnic made by the princess rather than in his war efforts and shows how deeply he cares for her
It's bias but I truly think that this is just for show.
Nearly everything Griffith has done is like something out of a fairy tale or an old legend that I don't take it seriously.
The Griffith vs. Guts struggle is essentially the Apollo vs. Dionysus struggle.
Putting the ends before the means is what makes every villain a fucking villain you idiot.
Messiah is literally a god that works on different dimensions, Aji tae is just a demon.
It's definitely bias. Yes, he loves to do things theatrically, but I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe that he's more than a sociopathic monster.
No, it's called being rational. It's the result that matters, not how you achieved it.
Wouldn't Dionysus be Griffith though?
>It's bias but I truly think that this is just for show. Nearly everything Griffith has done is like something out of a fairy tale or an old legend that I don't take it seriously.
That isn't bias, it is called good reading comprehension. His charisma is literally at supernatural levels.
Griffith has sacrificed everything he cares about and had their deaths literally pass through him so he would understand the enormity of what he did. He cares for no one now.
I don't see how Griffith promotes logical thinking and creativity. If anything, he's causing chaos by merging the two worlds. The only thing that matches between Guts and Dionysus is his inner rage. He doesn't spread chaos or anything like that.
How much until he rapes her too?
You know it's coming...
>You know it's coming...
No, I know that nothing of the sort will ever happen. What would be the purpose?
When you're able to submit someone who has never seen you and make them cry just by the sigh alone and to make the enemy leader so fearfull of being touched that something much more is going on than normal charisma.
It's pretty much the same reason all the novles had when they saw the fucking pope do the most honorable bow in front of Griffith.
Some shit is too much bullshit to even be believed yet Griffith does that.
>No, I know that nothing of the sort will ever happen. What would be the purpose?
Her illusion of Griffith as a savior and perfect personality finally ruined.
You do know that once you get married, it's tradition to consummate the marriage, right?
Griffith already planned to do that when he would have become king but he's a demon now, and rape is his only skill set.
And the best part is that once they become husband and wife, she won't be able to leave him since she's now officially his queen.
It's the ultimate bait and switch in mind break games, you get some girl to get completely head and heels over you and then you show your true colors and mind break her and she's too stunned about the rape to leave you and doesn't know what to do , who you are or what happened.
How is it an illusion when he literally saved her and midland...?
>You do know that once you get married, it's tradition to consummate the marriage, right?
So? That doesn't mean he's gonna rape and mindbreak her. As said previously, there would be no purpose. Besides, he loves Charlotte.
>he's a demon now
>implying he isn't an angel
>>implying he isn't an angel
Yes... the godhand are angels, not demons.
Dude, give it up, the godhand are fucking evil.
God Hand are supposed to be beings of casuality, the fact that Griffith saw them as gods and became a member willingly means he sides with the Order of the universe. His desire is merely power and coincides with the Idea of Evil (life itself is will to power), and his appearance too is very Apollonian in concept since he's all white/glowing like the sun which symbolizes unstained perfection.
Meanwhile Guts's journey is one of revenge, anger, passion, and rebellion, all forms of intoxicating Dionysian principles. He does all he can to not become like Griffith and so far has won, making him a god in his own right, but Guts is more like a god of ungodliness, of chaos, since he is in a state of eternal struggle. Guts's story is also one of tragedy. Apollo and Dionysus aren't exactly opposites but rather complementary forces, which is why Guts also has a demon inside him, but he even fights against that. Guts fights against everything, making him the opponent of Order, or chaos.
You're a fucking idiot.
They were angelic to Griffith and demonic to Guts, so it really is just a matter of perspective.
>all this delusion
It's like you created your own Berserk universe where Griffith is the savior of human kind and a perfect prince on a white horse.
They all represent different sins. They are totally demons.
I was trolling a bit with the angels thing.
The truth is they aren't really either angels or demons. They're different entities.
Explain in details why. I make efforts to write long posts and answer as many points as I can.
He might be. Who's to say he isn't? Just because the story is from Guts' perspective doesn't mean he's the good guy. We'll just have to wait until the manga ends to see. Until then, try to keep an open mind.
He is on a white horse though, uniting all the different civilizations together.
>where Griffith is the savior of human kind and a perfect prince on a white horse.
Maybe I'm not so delusional after all.
But your wrong faggot. His only good trait is being extremely unlikable.
>He likes Guts and Casca as great friends. Charlotte as a girlfriend.
>That's how it was at the beginning, yes. It changed when she showed so much courage and loyalty.
Griffith doesn't care for anybody, with perhaps the exception of Guts.
You actually let yourself be fooled by Griffith, despite having Miura show you how much of an evil ass he is. You're just like the sheeple that Griffith herded in the manga.
Otherwise known as complete and utter idiots.
Oh,look,sheep which are going to be sacrificed.
>They're very minor
Yeah, I guess having a gigantic superiority complex, being emotionally crippled, and having little to no empathy for anyone are minor problems.
That's because he is putting on the appearance of a messiah you faggot. He has no real intention to save anyone, and has basically brought forth the apocalypse with the destruction of all logic.
meanwhile Hurk is the CLOSEST thing you'll ever get to playing a berserk like action game
sure DD has its armor but Warriors dont swing it as fast as GUTS
>They were angelic to Griffith and demonic to Guts, so it really is just a matter of perspective.
No, it's kind of a matter of being the hand of evil, like literally evil. Perspective doesn't come into it.
Griffith did not need Charlotte to become king of Midland, but it made it easier. If Griffith had killed the nobility, then the nobles of the other countries would have used that as another excuse to come in and split up Midland amongst themselves.
Also, if Griffith had taken Midland without Charlotte then it's possible she, or someone using her, would use her as a rallying cry to take the kingdom back from the "Usurper" Griffith.
You don't know that yet, the manga isn't finished. Between the two sides of the argument, it's those making baseless claims about something that hasn't happened yet who will look delusional.
>Griffith doesn't care for anybody, with perhaps the exception of Guts.
He cared for his entire band. The fact that he even had the possibility to sacrifice them proves that.
>gigantic superiority complex, being emotionally crippled
Show me the pages where he had those. I'll be waiting...
>and having little to no empathy for anyone
Already disproved, and besides I wouldn't really see it as a flaw. >>100974635 >>100975730
We don't know that yet. We'll have to wait for the next volumes to see who is right.
But to Griffith, evil is god.
>But he loves her a lot compared to how he's actually capable of loving people.
He's incapable of loving anyone. He got rid of his human emotions when he became Femto, and before that he was pretty much a sociopath anyway, so not a whole lot changed. The only person he might care for a little bit is Guts. And even then, he still raped the woman Guts loved, killed all of his friends, and would have allowed him to be killed too had it not been for the Skull Knight showing up. Don't confuse charisma for genuine emotion.
Griffith did nothing wrong.
You're talking to a female tween who empathises with Charlotte. You're never going to get anywhere.
It doesn't matter how many times Griffith blatantly states than he is "free" of emotions. It doesn't matter that he killed all of his "friends" for his own benefit.
He put a toy soldier on a dead boy, and smiles at people, therefore the rest of his actions don't mean anything, because FEMALE TWEEN.
>He also showed jealousy often when he saw her with Guts.
Because he's a psychopath. He sees her as a possession. A possession that Guts was taking away.
>Perspective doesn't come into it.
Of course it does. All life is evil, depending on how you look at it. Nothing in this world survives without consuming energy from other living things. Even a basic concept like eating is really monstrous if you let yourself get hung up on ideals of good and evil.
I just can't wait until Guts comes ridin' into Falconia and everyone sees him as the bad guy.
Miura already retconned that.
>then the nobles of the other countries would have used that as another excuse to come in and split up Midland amongst themselves.
You have no proof of that. Besides, Griffith's army would protect the land.
>Also, if Griffith had taken Midland without Charlotte then it's possible she, or someone using her, would use her as a rallying cry to take the kingdom back from the "Usurper" Griffith.
Charlotte would have never allowed that. She's pure and loyal.
>He's incapable of loving anyone. [...] and before that he was pretty much a sociopath anyway
This was disproved again and again, Read the thread.
>He got rid of his human emotions when he became Femto
Could be true. I'm not sure yet.
>Don't confuse charisma for genuine emotion.
I don't know if Femto is good, but there's no doubt that Griffith pre-eclipse was.
>It doesn't matter how many times Griffith blatantly states than he is "free" of emotions.
Griffith lied before. We can't be sure if this is true or not. Maybe it is.
> It doesn't matter that he killed all of his "friends" for his own benefit.
Event taken out of context.
By the way, I'm not a "tween". I'm an adult.
I think this is a valid theory, although I completely disagree with it. See the rest of the thread for why.
>"He should've known better"
How? Griffith seems damn near invincible to Guts and all the hawks. Besides Griffith had at that point just about won his dream already. Guts was so sure nothing could keep Griffith down that he could easily leave. Guts even monologues as he leaves "It's all right. It's like stumbling on a rock on the roadside. It's petty... a small thing. The place you want to go... is more distant...farther off. So... it's all right.. you'll stand up."
How the hell should Guts have known that Griffith would have a mental breakdown the size of hiroshima just because he wanted to have a life of his own instead of constant war for other people.
The fact that he came back for them in their time of need doesn't change the fact that he wanted to gain something of his own.
>there will never be the perfect Berserk-inspired game
I imagine it'd be like DD but like you said, better two-handed action, but also a proper Ethereal plane and Berserk armor mode similar to Devil Trigger in DMC.
Imagine being able to get the brand of sacrifice at some point in the story and then being introduced to the plane of demons that relentlessly chase you down and prevent you from resting/healing, and an online mode with drop-in drop-out multiplayer where un-branded players can encounter branded ones and get fucked up by unexpected demons. And a Berserk mode you soon gain after being branded, which makes you unable to be stunned and gives you crazy speed/attack power, but damage you receive while using it is permanently taken away from your max HP until you properly rest (which is hard to do when demons are always chasing after you). And if you overuse Berserk mode your ally NPCs can eventually appear as demons and you can accidentally kill them unknowingly.
I dream about this kind of game.
You seem to forget that being tortured for years and the Eclipse tend to change a person. His goal was in reach and he already admitted to not caring if the Hawk were to die in order to reach his goal since they all joined of their own volition. He only let himself get raped in the first place because it saved manpower and it was quicker. Sure, Griffith used to feel something when someone died under his command, but that wouldn't stop him from sacrificing a thousand more of his men to reach his goal.
Pre-eclipse Griffith felt sad about using people, but still used them.
Post-eclipse, he literally doesn't care for anyone. Th quickest route to his dream is the path of the messiah, and so he'll play the part.
But the idea of evil is born of evil thoughts, so it doesn't fucking matter what Griffith thinks. It's a thing which exists, and facts can be stated about it which are objective and not open to perspective or debate.
>"Guts let Griffith rot"
No he didn't. Guts literally ran back through like a continent to get to the band of the hawk the minute he heard what had happened after he left. Before that he thought they were doing fine. Then he immediately pushes the band of the hawk to go through with their plan of saving Griffith.
I actually agree with everything you said except
>Post-eclipse, he literally doesn't care for anyone. Th quickest route to his dream is the path of the messiah, and so he'll play the part.
I'm not sure about that. I'd say that it's a possibility, but not a fact yet. We'll have to see.
Most of the time, when I talk about Griffith, I'm talking pre-eclipse.
>all the fickle evidence I use is doubtful, but should be believed
>all the overwhelming evidence the the contrary is doubtful, and should be dismissed
Nobody can get anywhere with you, your arguments aren't falsifiable, excuses just keep sprouting. You take a solid stance on one side, without solid evidence.
>She's pure and loyal.
She's naive and has daddy issues.
>Miura already retconned that
Oh this is rich, we both know why.
>I don't know if Femto is good, but there's no doubt that Griffith pre-eclipse was.
You're delusional. He had his entire warband brutally slaughtered so he could reach his own selfish desires. That in and of itself is enough to put him in bad person territory. And that's ignoring the rapes and assassinations and god knows what else went down while the Band of the Hawk was still a small gang of bandits before Guts joined. He was not at all a good person.
Or maybe post-eclipse Griffith embraced the idea of Stoicism, and decided that if he was alright with letting people die for him before then he should just do what he needs to do without tearing himself up over it. It's possible to have genuine care and concern for others and still not feel anguish when they die. Life is fleeting, and death isn't an inherently bad thing. It's possible to accept these things and be at peace. When people say 'To learn to live is to learn to die' it doesn't just refer your own death.
>and death isn't an inherently bad thing.
All of his followers go straight to hell. On a scale of slightly annoying to eternal torment, that's pretty fucking bad.
Haha, oh wow. Overwhelming evidence of the contrary? There's none. And a lot, though not all, of my evidences are solid.
You know, I think the problem is we just don't have the same morality, the same idea of good and evil. I don't see killing people and stuff like that as bad if it's for the greater good. Griffith is a tragic hero. He didn't enjoy killing people, he felt remorse, but at the same time he kept going because he knew it would be better for him and Midland in the end. Yes, the end justifies the means.
>And that's ignoring the rapes and assassinations and god knows what else went down while the Band of the Hawk was still a small gang of bandits before Guts joined.
Now you're just extrapolating. As far as we know, the only thing that happened back then was that he allowed Casca to kill the noble trying to rape her.
We don't really know the nature of hell in Berserk's universe, though. They all seem to be plagued with regret and fear, but maybe they just swirl around in there until enlightenment hits and they learn to be at peace with themselves. All the demons and specters in Berserk seem to have one thing in common, and it's that they torment themselves. Maybe by joining the two worlds Griffith plans to bring true peace, both inner and outer, to the universe. We'll just have to wait and see how it all ends before making judgements.
>womyn kills thread by having shitty opinion
if 4chan was men only THEN it could finally start to become muh sekrit club
One little thing I want to add to this is the fact that Guts's right eye was crushed. If you tie this in with left-hand and right-hand paths then the right symbolizes white magic; Guts became blind in that eye and is now all about the left, black magic, which is more chaotic.
nah, she's right. Griffith is cool.
I didn't ruin the thread. I just defend Griffith whenever I can, even on other boards and websites.
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Guts becomes the new spookyman and joins the old spookymen. We timeskip to like 10 000 years later and a thousand spookymen go to war against Griffiths immortal empire.
>As far as we know, the only thing that happened back then was that he allowed Casca to kill the noble trying to rape her.
We also know for a fact that Griffith allowed Corkus and his buddies to try to kill Guts and take his gold. If he let it happen then, it's safe to assume that it's something that'd happened before.
>I don't see killing people and stuff like that as bad if it's for the greater good.
Griffith wanting a castle is not the greater good. It's his own personal ambition. And it's very much wrong to kill solely to have your own desires fulfilled.
you ruined this thread so fucking hard and you can't even realise it
you are the tumblr cancer that is killing /a/
Guts will heal Griffith's heart eventually.
You're right. I'm sure hell is just a magical paradise wonderland where Griffith gives everyone ice cream and free handjobs. Just look at those guys. They must be having a ball.
>We also know for a fact that Griffith allowed Corkus and his buddies to try to kill Guts and take his gold. If he let it happen then, it's safe to assume that it's something that'd happened before.
That's a good point, actually. Well, this shows he was a kinda easygoing leader. He left freedom to his soldiers, also as evidenced by how he let Guts do whatever he wanted in battle.
>Griffith wanting a castle is not the greater good. It's his own personal ambition.
The castle was just a symbol. He said he wanted his own country. That was his dream. It's safe to assume he would have been a great leader, because, Historically, the few ones that came from lower classes were good, like Gaozu of Han. Pic related, he wasn't fond of the nobility.
I don't even go on tumblr.
Yeah, they're all in torment, but the common theme is inner turmoil. Nobody can save you from that but yourself. Nobody else can be held responsible when somebody dies and refuses to let go of their regrets. Maybe Berserk's hell is a little more philosophical than we've been lead to believe. I don't know any more than everyone else what will happen in this story, but I think that'd be a good way to make Griffith out to be a good guy in the end, despite all he's done. Especially in opposition of Guts, who is anything BUT at peace with himself.
remove griffith remove griffith
you are worst scum
Lets not forget that after Griffith became Fempto he went around encouraging others to sacrifice their loved ones, essentially damning them to hell.
She ruined the thread by generating discussion? If you're looking for an echo chamber or a hugbox, then you should switch over to a site like Reddit. The point of anonymous and unregulated discussion is to let everyone speak their true feelings.
>Well, this shows he was a kinda easygoing leader. He left freedom to his soldiers, also as evidenced by how he let Guts do whatever he wanted in battle.
Turning a blind eye to thievery and murder is wrong, plain and simple.
I guess those Japanese commanders in WWII were just real easygoing, that's why their soldiers committed all those war crimes. They shouldn't be held responsible for that right? Nah, they were just letting their soldiers do their own thing. Just being cool bosses. They weren't bad dudes. Just chill. Right?
>The castle was just a symbol. He said he wanted his own country. That was his dream.
I was being a bit of a smartass when I said "castle." I know that. Whether his desire is a castle or a country doesn't matter though. He still killed a fuckton of people solely for his own desires. That's not something a good person would do.
>It's safe to assume he would have been a great leader, because, Historically, the few ones that came from lower classes were good, like Gaozu of Han. Pic related, he wasn't fond of the nobility.
You know what they say about assumptions? Anyway, that doesn't much matter either. Being a good leader isn't the same as being a good person.
Cognitive Dissonance: The Femanon.
>You know, I think the problem is we just don't have the same morality, the same idea of good and evil.
And stop trying to be an edgy femme fatale. It's pathetic.
Has there been NOTHING from Miura since 2014 started?
I've heard so many good things about basically everything in general for Berserk from over the entire fucking internet for years and I really want to get into it, but I can't stand knowing I could get invested only for that fucking boat sailing away to be the last I ever see.
You've got the elevens here too all the time surely they've heard SOMETHING?
One thing I never understood, were they trying to make the Count a member of God Hand or something else?
That's still just speculation. And it doesn't change the fact that Griffith sent more than a few people down into a place that is clearly a place of torment. And, even if Griffith goes and saves the world and gets everyone out of hell, he still wouldn't be a good person. Because, for one, ends don't justify means. And, more importantly, he did all of it for his own selfish reasons.
I don't think people should view who Griffith used to be through the lens of what he ended up becoming.
It's clear that he had momentary lapses in sanity due to all the stress he held on his shoulders and that the year of torture he endured finally broke his mind completely and because of that he became a true monster. Before that though he still had a good heart and was deeply affected by the death of that little boy, which is why he sold his body so he wouldn't have to sacrifice more of his men needlessly. He had moments of coldness and moments of warmth but he still felt and acted as a strong reliable leader who provided for his men more than any other mercenary leader as Guts commented early in the series.
>The castle was just a symbol. He said he wanted his own country. That was his dream
Which is not "the greater good".
Generally I've found that when people appeal to "the greater good", they've run out of things to say. It's an excuse that can justify literally anything.
And this isn't even taking into account all the shit he allowed to happen which had sweet fuck-all impact on his dream.
They were going to keep him from dying. They were basically offering to extend his apostle "contract."
>were they trying to make the Count a member of God Hand or something else?
The count wanted to survive, all apostles get an audience (AFAIK).
this, I still think we have a delusional tradlet here but this thread would be dead hours ago otherwise.
I bet you also hate powerlevel threads, because people discuss (albeit pointless) things in there instead of the usual baiting and fawning arround waifus.
I don't have autism or any other kind of mental problems.
>Turning a blind eye to thievery and murder is wrong, plain and simple.
>I guess those Japanese commanders in WWII were just real easygoing, that's why their soldiers committed all those war crimes. They shouldn't be held responsible for that right? Nah, they were just letting their soldiers do their own thing. Just being cool bosses. They weren't bad dudes. Just chill. Right?
War has its own rules. They were violent times. You don't get anywhere if you're not ready to do horrible stuff. Those things happen in all wars, too.
>He still killed a fuckton of people solely for his own desires. That's not something a good person would do.
It depends on what the goal is. Griffith's goal was good, and worth a few people dying.
I'm not trying to be edgy. I honestly believe that Griffith would do good for people, and that the GOOD result would be worth the dirty methods.
What's a "tradlet"?
Are you seriously excusing war crimes now? This is how far you're willing to go to defend your husbando? I'll give you one thing: you don't back down. But, holy shit are you delusional.
Someone complained about their GF having the hots for Griffith, femanon said that his GF should because Griffith is so alpha and only flawed in minor ways.
"flawed in minor ways" being the retardation which generated a "discussion" in which everything she said was right and everything anyone said in opposition is wrong. Those aren't the arguments, those are the terms of the "discussion".
That probably would have been true before the eclipse, but to assume the fifth embodiment of evil has humanity's best interests at heart is wishful thinking
War crimes is an invention of the patriarchy
They were just going to make him an apostle again saving his life. By using the behilit and sacrificing your loved ones your desire is granted with your apostle form.
The Count originally was so hurt from his wife betraying him he got a body that could never be hurt again.
Wyld was an old man, pathetically weak and fragile and he becomes this super strong guy capable of indulging his every desire.
Roshinu wishes for fairies to save her and becomes the fairy queen capable of birthing "fairies."
The behelit apostle wishes to birth a new world so he becomes the egg for Griffiths reincarnation.
All apostles have sacrificed the person they care about the most making them monsters inside and out. The only unusual one is the behelit apostle because he sacrificed himself (his world) and it is why his tongue was branded.
You have to understand that the concept of a war crime barely even existed before 1945, and that it was made up to give a reason to incriminate Axis leadership. It existed even less in medieval times. You can't judge them with modern liberal morality.
Everything I said in the last posts concerning Griffith were about him before the eclipse. I also admitted I didn't know whether Femto was good or bad.
a spelling error of tardlet which means little tard.
>tard = cake
Once used as a nicer word for whore but here usually standing for retard.
They were going to resurrect him in his apostle form
Griffith's goal is power. He used to want to be king, but after the eclipse he wants the world. That's why he chose the messiah route.
He has no good intentions, nor evil ones. He just wants power and is willing to do anything to have it.
He is evil to the people close to him. He raped Casca for revenge, not jealousy. If he wanted her as a possession, then he would have spent more resources trying to capture her, but instead he only has one more showdown with Guts to see if he is still worth of his attention or not.
Griffith is not a good dude..
I know it's speculation, I don't think I have more insight into how this story ends than anyone else, but I intend to keep an open mind. I just think it's possible we'll be shown something that subverts our expectations. Anyway, whether Griffith sent people to hell or not really wouldn't matter assuming everyone ends up there anyway. If everyone has to confront their personal problems eventually, now is no different from later.
As for his selfishness, you could also say that there's no such thing as a good deed for the very same reasons. Mark Twain wrote a few things about that subject, but the problem is that argument never ends. It just goes in circles. You can just continually claim that any good deed was done to further self esteem. It's impossible to tell where an action's true motives lie, even as the person committing the action.
Also, whether or not the end justifies the means isn't something you can be concrete about. It's a grey area, and it always has been and mostly likely always will be. It really depends on the circumstances.
This is the problem with Guts fags. Because his life is so bad, fans think he can do no wrong. Weather or not Griffith is a villain, or hero is all opinionated. But, Guts is a bad person who going to go on to do more horrible things.
That or like a lot of the stuff including the title it's Viking symbolism, Odin loses his eye to see the future and other planes, and Tyr who lost his hand and was also the god of War.
I really shouldn't have to give you examples of Griffith's crippled emotions. It's his psychopathy, which you say isn't a fault so even if I reread the entire manga and list hundreds of examples you would dismiss them as not being a problem. Ever hear the sentiment that kids can be cruel? Griffith does not care about anyone outside his very little group of friends, and purposely hunts and hurts those he does not like, because he has the maturity level of a five year old.
If i'm not mistaken he still has a bethelit he got from the beginning of the manga, which shows shit might go down later on
>the concept of a war crime barely even existed before 1945
>It existed even less in medieval times.
That no one paid it any heed because there was no independent media and such, is another matter.
We don't know what his precise objective is but he can definitely assume he is malevolent, he encourages sacrifices, he condemns those who die in his battles to hell, he slaughtered hundreds so that he could manifest, he sends armies of demons to kill anyone who can oppose him, even if they aren't directly threatening him.
Guys, I think I'll have to call it a day for now. Last time I ate anything substantial was 22 hours ago, and right now I can't stop shaking because of hunger and exhaustion from typing so much.
It's a shame, because I love discussing that kind of stuff. I wish these threads would happen everyday.
To conclude, I'd just like to say that nothing I said in the thread was trolling. I genuinely believe everything I said and I truly love Griffith. I'd love to go on, but I can't before I eat supper. Thanks for yet another interesting conversation.
Bye, have a nice meal!
Let's face it. The majority of everyone loves Griffith even though he's flawed and deserves a sword to the face. I even love him because he's flawed and deserves a sword to the face.
Good bye. I had fun talking to you, as well.
This is a guy who shrugged of sexual trauma, Guts assumed Griffith would not over react to his departure. Besides the war was over, Griffiths only way up was through the Princess's vagina, Guts was no longer vital to his plan, so he had every right to leave.
Jesus christ eat something now
I think something interesting that not many people talk about is the chance that Griffith may not have ever been able to legitimately marry the princess. Wasn't her dad like an incestuous control freak? Reminds me like Tony and his sister from Scarface.
Griffith is more beautiful than any woman in the series, does that make Miura closet gay?
That's true, Griffith may not have 'thrown it all away' like most people think. In Griffith's position, it'd be pretty reasonable to think that the king would give their relationship his blessing considering how much he had done for the kingdom, and how gracious he was. Maybe getting caught in her chambers was an actual step of his plan that went horribly wrong because he didn't predict how fucked up the king was.
By that definition, villain is as useless as a word as altruism.
>I think something interesting that not many people talk about is the chance that Griffith may not have ever been able to legitimately marry the princess. Wasn't her dad like an incestuous control freak? Reminds me like Tony and his sister from Scarface.
Yep, he had the potential stature but he still wasn't totally accepted by most of the nobility and the king most likely never would have accepted anyone until his hand was forced.
Griffith might have been able to force his hand eventually or assassinate him allowing him to swoop in and marry Charlotte but it would have been one of the most difficult things he had done and potentially impossible.
Getting Charlotte to like him like he did would have simply pushed the king farther away if it worked.
No,it's well explained that Griffith's genes were practically perfect.
Forcing Charlotte to give birth to his child would also give him some right to the throne. Griffith, already being in charge of most of Midland's forces, would be welcomed as a king of the common people. There would be very little the nobility could do at that point.
>actually discussing Griffith
Griffith a shit.
Charlotte a stupid kid.
Her father was already terminally ill, all he had to do was wait for him to die
>Maybe getting caught in her chambers was an actual step of is plan that went horribly wrong because he didn't predict how fucked up the king was.
It clearly wasn't. There is not situation where discretely stealing the princesses virginity would have been acceptable to any king.
I think that secretly slipping the princess the old one eye was a plan Griffith was going to enact eventually after Guts left he was so shaken up that he did it immediately to prove something to himself. Normally he wouldn't be so careless as to come in on a rainy day making here room all wet, to be seen by a maid, and not even have his sword.
>Prove me wrong
His name is not Makishima Shogo
>best villain ever conceived in any story genre ever
Well, Charlotte had previously tuned down all of the presented suitors, so maybe he would have been happy that she was showing interest in someone?
I also think it's a stretch but the king certainly reacted in the extremest way possible considering her daughter was madly in love with him.
He still would have no claim to the throne. He needed to get into Charlottes pants and he needed the kings blessing to do so.
He's not the best ever, but he's the best in recent years.
The King was insane and obviously in love with his own daughter. He was jealous more than anything that Griffith had gotten his daughter, and he didn't.
He knew Charlotte was in love with Griffith too and that made him even more angry.
This makes me wonder if the king was choosing suitors that he knew Charlotte would hate in order to keep his daughteru pure. Definitely seems like something the king would do.
Whether it was intentional or not Miura is a fucking genius.
The king definitely acted in an extreme fashion with the years of torture but nobody gets to fuck the kings daughter behind his back and get rewarded for it.
Do you people not notice how fathers are protective of their daughters now and this was back when a women's virtue was important.
So who are these angels, if Void was supposed to be the first?
Nope, I would let Griffith suck my cock without regrets. I wouldn't want to see him naked or have any other intercourse with him though. He is has a perfect face everyone drawn to beauty should find arrousing and that is intended.
I rather would ask myself if women who like him are gay.
>This makes me wonder if the king was choosing suitors that he knew Charlotte would hate in order to keep his daughteru pure. Definitely seems like something the king would do.
The king was probably simply turning them down himself and then saying his daughter didn't approve. It would have been the easiest. It doesn't seem like Charlotte would have been the kind of person to have the guts to actually say no too, she is a stereotypical princess raised to be naive and married off to the noble of your choice.
It is speculated that the God Hand members get "replaced" at some point or another, since there were already 4 or 5 of them a thousand years ago.
How or why, I couldn't tell. I don't think the manga really expands on that.
>Should've just killed the rest of the jews and might've prevented WWII
and only because Munsu is just that alpha
Griffith's Beauty makes all the women in the manga wet. Poor ugly Guts has to make it up by being a "lone wolf" type.
Your critizism is justified but the analogy is bullshit.
Hitler also wanted to conquer east europe as a "living space" for his arian masterrace. For him the jews were just vermin, he wanted to get rid of in the process.
King of Fist (Raoh), Blackbeard D. Teach, Saito Hajime, Hao Asakura, Randall Flagg (The Stand), Hexxus (Fern Gully), Calypso (The Odyssey), The Knight of the Wood/Knight of Mirrors (Don Quixote), Anakin Skywalker (and Palpatine too), Buzz Lightyear, Ned Flanders, Tak (Regulators, Desperation), etc.
>hurr he raped somebody
>He choked people
Griffith and Anakin are somewhat similar, both sold out in order to gain power, both got defeated like little bitches before doing so, the only difference is Anakin killed the Emperor who was so god tier he owned the fuck out of Yoda, and Griffith's bitch ass will never own the main god hand. Griffith is inferior.
what if guts and griffith join to kill the other members of the hand