Guide (Start here):
#l/a/nguage on irc.rizon.net
あ え い お う
あ え い お う
あ え い お う
あ え い お う
あ え い お う
Isn't it あいうえお?
Is the first result with converting with the space bar a reliable way to know if a word should be written in hirgana/katakana/kanji?
/jp/ called DJT a useless Distraction General.
If only what /jp/ said mattered at all.
And their Anki generals are still shit.
They have the highest number of fluent Japanese speakers on 4chan. /int/ doesn't count because they're natives.
Yeah, why learn Japanese when you can just use a text hooker and machine translation?
Guess we're doing this again.
can we please not though?
What is text hooker?
War is hell.
You made your bed. You unleashed the wrath of the otaku, you woke the beast, and now you have to deal with the consequences of your actions.
You sound like an autist.
Nobody cares about board drama.
It's like a regular hooker, but instead of paying them for sex you pay them to read a VN for you.
Why are hooker are called hooker instead of bait?
They're worse than these threads that for sure. Because they aren't fast enough to distract anyone.
Despite all of our attempts at peaceful negotiation, they continued to push for war. And today /a/ will freely admit: "Indeed, this war could have been avoided, but we do not want peace." Today they admit that it would have been possible to arrive at an understanding, but they wanted war.
The otaku held out our hands in friendship, but they refused it and they cried out: "No reconciliation! No understanding! Only war!"
Well, /a/, you will have your war. You shall yet get to know the otaku of /jp/! They will personally instruct you. You will get to know their divisions and their regiments as they march into your board. Perhaps then you will be cured of a peculiar form of insanity. Namely, the insanity of believing that you are faced by the divided and fractured otaku tribes of old. /a/, today you are faced by every otaku of /jp/!
Christ, I don't even go on /jp/.
What did we do that is so worthy of a petty cross board war?
some anons were saying they can't into japanese
They can't. Neither can this thread.
And so the great war between the two illiterate Japanese students has begun.
Are you retarded? /jp/ wouldn't actually "declare war" on anything. The concept of doing that is retarded script kiddy /a/v/b/ shit. You guys are like stupid kids obsessed with /jp/, and this is coming from someone who isn't actively from /jp/. Stop.
It's more that /jp/ thinks that everything is shit. Since DJT falls into the category "everything," it's shit too.
>not from /jp/
>using the term /a/v/b/
What are you even talking about? Stop shitposting.
>Wake up at 2:00PM
>Start doing my reps and occasionally look at DJT or other threads on /a/ to take a quick break.
>It's currently 9:34PM
>Feel like I've been studying Japanese for hours.
>"Studied 234 cards in 28 minutes today."
Jesus christ. I must have been procrastinating for hours and I didn't even realize it. I can barely believe it. Only 28 minutes? I feel like I've been studying for at least six hours.
How do I stop doing this? I wasn't even doing anything interesting. I didn't play any games or watch any anime, I just looked at /a/ a few times and somehow that took nine hours.
What helped me is removing yourself from the situation. The computer is a major distraction for me, so I bought the anki app (Yeah, I know, I'm a faggot) and use that because a phone is less of a distraction.
You may just have narcolepsy.
I'm watching Joshiraku with the subtitles off, and what the fucking is going on?
>Studied 234 cards in 28 minutes today.
You shouldn't feel bad, anon. I took 90 minutes for 250 cards today. You can't get worse than me.
i studied no cards in no minutes today
get on my level
/jp/ really is out in full force today.
Well I'm up to the t's in my hiragana memorization, I can easily tell the phonetic that goes with each character. Problem is, I have trouble doing it the other way around (given a phonetic or roma-ji and asked to make the symbol).
Any tips for making it click in this regard?
I forgot 240 cards in negative 20 minutes.
You can't beat that.
somebody went out of their way to invite us
Posting on 4chan is a far bigger time sink than anime or video games.
Look at this thread. It feels like it's been up for 30 minutes, right? Nope.
>Thread created at: 20:26
>Current time: 21:49
If you opened this thread when it was started then an hour has gone by in what has probably felt like 20 minutes.
I know this isn't going to work with everyone and isn't exactly what you're looking for, but try learning hiragana/katakana with a "game". I did this for a day or two and memorized all my kana without writing it down repeatedly.
i haven't studied in 10 months
deal with it
i should be reading my books, but ive been so busy with other summer school papers that ive been putting my japanese studies on hold
this semester is semester 2, that means genki 2. when im back into the books, i promise i will participate in these threads as much as i can
I did 2 cards in about 5 seconds. I guess you've got me beat though.
But could you also easily think up the character when given a phonetic or Roma-ji equivalent after doing so?
They have much more Japanese speakers than /a/. Why are you so tsundere for /jp/ in that you must repeatedly bring them up? Stop acknowledging them all of the time like some insecure approval seeking faggot. /a/ isn't even a topic of discussion on /jp/.
Get a timer. i spent all day studying for 1 hour with 15 minute breaks in between.
I'd also spend my 15 minute breaks doing chores to stay actively focused on something.
Here, the timer i use.
A guy from here called it that. I don't think anyone from /jp/ cares what we do.
Yes. After playing with it for a while I just recognized the characters without needing romaji anymore. It feels great when you reach that step. We may have different learning methods, so you may need more than just a game to get you through kana. Good luck, anon! がんばって！
Thanks, the game is pretty fun, I also use this.
They have a similar game that speeds up as you progress, it's very fun.
Also yeah it's been fairly easy, just wish I could think up the character in my head as easily as I can name the phonetic when I see the character. I'll keep at it.
I need to concentrate and stop going to 4chan so I can practice my reading by reading jp-only VNs. How do you do it, DJT? Do you close all of your tabs and get full imersed in what you're reading?
Yes, but I've at least got to keep Jisho open.
Whichever works for you best, keep doing it. You will reach that step where you'll be able to think of the character right away. You'll even reach the point where you just recognize the character without even thinking about it. Remember, this is just the beginning. Keep at it and you'll be okay. DJT is usually pretty helpful, so don't be afraid to ask if you need help.
these threads need quality control because it's mostly ganbatte stuff.
But on the other hand, it also needs motivational reading so we anons can keep with your reps as much as we can
One of my goals in life is to eventually make a Graded Reader RPG. It will start with very basic grammar and slowly move up to more complicated grammar as you progress through it. Every sentence will have both a literal and regular translation. There will be a built-in dictionary to lookup any words in the sentences. Words with multiple meanings will have all definitions shown, but the definition being used in that particular sentence will be highlighted. Then I will sell it to weeaboos and make loads of money.
I guarantee your certainty that this dream of yours will stay merely that; a dream. Give up now for you will definitely fail.
Honestly, the best way is to just stop going to 4chan as often altogether. When you've been lurking and shitposting here for more than an hour a day, every day, to the point where you feel compelled to have a thread open at all times, it's going to make any sort of productive activity on the computer that much harder.
Also, if you start reading every day, it'll soon be something you don't even need to think about.
Does anyone else think the order of the words in the Core decks could be a lot better? I'm working on reordering it to better suit my needs, and I figured I might as well upload it when I'm done.
So far I know for sure I want to group together transitive/intransitive versions of words, group together inflections that Core somehow decided were new words (近く／近い), and group together related words, because I think it's ridiculous being able to say "arm" but not "leg", just because they're not exactly as frequently used, but still almost equally important.
Anything else you think I should keep in mind/you'd want in a Core based deck?
What I do to keep myself productive and might help others:
I have a dual monitor setup. I put anki on the second monitor that doesn't have a start button or any icons. I unplug the 1st monitor and put the cord in another room.
50 times each
That isn't what he was asking. I'm pretty sure you can't.
>group together inflections that Core somehow decided were new words (近く／近い)
How are those not different words? They're spelled differently and refer to different concepts.
Did anyone ever use this? I'm gonna try to make a deck off some anime episode and see how well it works. Looks interesting for very focused learning.
Less fucking business words.
Some logic in the kana/kanji usage. There are some words they randomly write in kanji where they're normally kana and vice versa and it's annoying.
Things like this are why everyone should just start their own deck from scratch eventually. One of the reasons I didn't like core2K very much is that it felt too much like highschool/university coursework, with me having to learn information in a prescribed and many times arbitrary order/fashion, only without professor/teacher interaction that makes the class worth it.
Your hypothetical deck might fix some of the glaring issues, but there will always be something more engaging about the user studying the cards that he himself put in.
I usually just put in words from the JLPT's, combine those with the results I get from punching any new kanji into KD, and call it a day.
The new core ordering solves most of that.
イギリス does not make sense to me. Shouldn't it be taken from the English word?
I have such a hard time understanding grammar. Polite and formal present/past/negative/negative past I'm fine with, but then I come across
and the works. I regret learning vocabulary and kanji first and putting grammar off for so long. How long until you felt comfortable and it "clicked" for you?
Can't read Kanji to save my life yet but from context this should be...Konnichiwa?
Whoops, meant informal.
What part do you find hard? Use, forming, all? I've never found the sheer grammar to be that big of a deal, learning kanji takes way longer.
Maybe from Portuguese or Spanish
>アフリカ does not make sense to me. Shouldn't it be taken from an Ethiopian or Swahili word?
You really can't read Kanji to save your life
It has 近く twice; once as an adverb and once as a noun. 近い is an い adjective, 近く is the adverb form of that い adjective. Makes no sense to separate them.
I'm not planning on removing any words, but less early focus on business words for sure. Will take a look at the kana, although that may require too much editing of notes instead of just reordering. I think it can be solved with some creative card creation, though.
Yeah, I'd actually really like to just make my own deck, but corePLUS has way too much useful info for me to stop using it. I'm mostly just doing it for my own use, I'm not planning on taking up a whole project to make a "perfect" deck. But if it's a bit better than what's currently up, why not upload it?
Epic spoiler usage /b/rother. You showed him.
so from what foreign country did they take it from?
All of it. I don't get when to use it or how to form them. I'm the opposite, kanji isn't that hard but grammar is too much.
I don't like anime. Can I still participate in these threads since I have an interest in learning Japanese?
It's from Portuguese or something like that. Another popular weird one with non-English roots is baito (arubaito).
Grammar doesn't exist. It's ex-post-facto reasoning to make sense of things that we already say. They're essentially different words considering they're spelt differently and refer to two different and distinct concepts regardless of how you meta-level linguistically classify it.
What I did/do is make up sentences with various placeholder nouns to practice a form, and mumble to myself like a retard when nobody is around. Worked well enough.
You're basically using the lazy man's version of making his own deck. Great for not having to make the entire card from scratch, but expecting order from it is hilarious considering i'm using it too.
>It's from Portuguese or something like that.
same as above
If grammar doesn't exist then how come people form language in ways that appear to follow pretty consistent rules rather than just barfing out whatever? Of course, the rules shift over time, but there is the fact that certain things are felt to be correct and some not, implying an internal set of standards for language formation.
The fuck do you like? Anime is just manga for plebs who can't read and like watered down shit that moves anyway.
Don't like Manga either. I like vidya though and I can tolerate most anime shit in games so long as the actual game is decent.
Then why do you want to learn Japanese? If you don't want any of their entertainment and just want to learn a new language, you're probably better off learning a practically useful language like Chinese or Spanish.
I don't see how it's so very different. And as long as the grammar rules apply to the words, I think it's a good idea to utilize them. Are you into the "no grammar books, 100 % immersion" approach? Otherwise I'm not really sure what your problem with it is. It's not allmighty, but it serves a purpose, especially when starting out. Worst case scenario, don't use the deck. It's gonna take a while anyway, and you'd probably be way past it if you're already not.
It's pretty alright with good cards. It's just the ordering that really bothers me.
>a practically useful language like Chinese or Spanish
Don't even joke like that. There are people here who actually believe it.
What if you have no need to speak to Chinese or Mexicans over Japanese?
I've continued learning Japanese because it's a p. cool language with a lot of media that makes its study more accessible. Chinese and Spanish are relatively boring to me.
Because I think the culture is interesting. I wouldn't mind learning Chinese though.
Well, that's how I operate as well but Spanish and (mandarin) Chinese are the 2nd and 3rd most spoken languages in the world.
And are you travelling the word, doing international business, or anything like that? If not, I don't think that argument is very strong. The realistic context of an individual is far smaller than the world at large for the majority of people.
mind you, anime's alright if you take them as listening sessions for beginners.
Truthfully I don't think anime is really suited for beginners, but I suppose it's better than a news program or something. But since beginners want to watch anime anyway, it ends up being their first exposure to the language.
How is でも used in this sentence それは空でも同じ.
Sorta depends on the animu. SOL type stuff I think is pretty accessible for a beginner with a decent grammar foundation, since they tend to have slower speech rates and be about mundane topics.
We should really get some easy anime in the guide, it's a lot more confusing than finding easy manga.
Who the fuck are you talking to?
It's all about tastes. Anything is easy if you really, really want to know what is being said and I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt you care about competitive cycling, teamwork, and the power of friendshipand spandex shorts anywhere near as much as I do to find it any less difficult than any other show that isn't about asspull science or philosophy.
You just have to find the thing that gives you the weeb boner to drill through to the heavens.
Yes and no. Listening is inexact. The more words and expressions you know, the more easily you can pick things up when they are muffled or spoken really quickly. If you don't know what word they're saying and you try to just get it by sound, you may end up getting it completely wrong. You may even find something that seems to fit in context, and yet still be totally wrong.
At least with reading, provided you have a good scan and can make out the kanji, you can eventually look up the word, even if it's a pain. Grammar can still be tricky though.
I assumed you'd do the correct thing and read the manga and mine the fuck out of it before taking on the show.
Yeah, but as >>100874747 said, stuff like SoL is generally really easy, and usually not very specific into one subject, so it's easy to start with just to get a first step into raw anime, which can otherwise be a bit terrifying.
One good approach would probably be to link some relatively easy manga with adaptations that stay fairly close to the source material, so that people could start with the manga and then move on to the anime after already picking up a lot of the vocab.
Sure I guess that can help a bit.
Sometimes these stories are really weird, but I probably won't forget this one.
I always see this posted in a but I've been ignoring it
So is this about learning Japanese? Will this guide help learn jap?
I've been using a mindsnack app to help me learn I feel like it doesn't help much lol
As someone who studied Mandarin for years before starting to learn Japanese, I get unbelievably pissed by the differences in how they are read.
>What, this kanji has more than one syllable!?!
help me I need everything spoon fed to me because I'm retarded
Any ideas on where to get the 時をかける少女 audiobook without a credit card?
盗み聞き（ぬすみぎき） - eavesdropping; tapping
男膣（だんまん） - boypussy; mancunt
卑猥（ひわい） - indecent; obscene
>Spanish and (mandarin) Chinese are the 2nd and 3rd most spoken languages in the world.
English is the third most spoken language in the world, Spanish is second and Mandarin is first.
There is too many "pair work" in Genki. :'(
Pear work you say?
Ask your waifu for assistance.
Really? There's a verb for "to go to a Seven-Eleven". Not just go to any convenience store but SPECIFICALLY a Seven-Eleven.
There are tons of these, I've never seen them actually used though.
Actually you can stick る to anything to make a fake verb and it will often get the point across. It just so happens that some of them like ぐぐる are actually useful and so everyone starts using them...
That was entertaining. I need to go read some imouto eromanga now...
Why would any of you guys do this?
Many of you people here say x language is more useful. First off I'm going to tell you anyone that says a certain language is more "useful" is usually wrong. Unless you're learning a language so you advance in some field of business a language is a useful as you make it. Let's be honest what use would Chinese be to any of you guys any way? It's not like you'd use it for anything, maintaining to would be a waste of time, not to mention you'll learn how awful China's culture and people are. You guys just don't get it because you haven't been exposed to it for awhile.
Yeah, if people say japanese culture is bad, Chinese culture seems to be many times worse.
Take it easy, bro. You're on a board about Japanese cartoons, in a thread about learning Japanese. I think you don't have to worry a whole lot about everyone deciding to learn Chinese. (Not that it would matter in the slightest if that did happen...)
Haven't been in one of these in months but you guys do more than just memorize kanji off cards right?
Yeah. We memorize vocabulary off of cards as well.
I practice stroke order with my 精液
Wait, we're supposed to MEMORIZE the kanji? I thought we were just supposed to click as fast as we could to get the best stats possible. My bad.
How about actual reading?
You're coming along just fine then.
Go easy on your wrist.
In 2.5 hours there's going to be some Japanese starcraft tournament being streamed at http://stream.j-cg.com/sc2/ch1
It should be fully commentated in Japanese
Reading is fun and we can't have that. In the grimdark future of /a/, there is only reps.
>Japanese starcraft tournament
this should be as amusing as watching americans play iidx
What are you talking about? I'm learning Japanese so I can one day read the stuff that I want to read. If I could already read them now then there would be no point in studying Japanese now would there? Obviously after getting a good understanding of grammar and a vocabulary at about the level of a native, I will read tons of stuff.
I'm working my way through a few books from the early 1900's. My Japanese is no where near good enough to be reading natural Japanese before western literature affected it yet.
where do they get the images, though?
just answered my own question, they all come from the dreamtime page
That white lady appears to have two Japanese people stuffed in her shirt
Damn, I wish it wasn't already so late for me. Would watch otherwise
Are there a bunch of Japanese people somewhere studying English so they can watch western TV shows?
the jap equivalent of us
hilariously broken sentences and all
Yes. And not just Japanese, people all over the world.
I love how the thread derails completely within seven posts. They really are like us.
>turns into /int/ within ten posts
Yup, that's us.
>bulliedness, canncer surviviors, houses of sweets, houses of sweet family, sweet food and loss of our own teeth, roundness of my body,
>I like Texas Oyaji. He is a person with good sense.
>Yesterday, his opinion about this issue appeared in an evening tabloid called Yukan Fuji.
>He criticized Caroline's remarks so severely that I wanted to give him a kiss.
Who is this guy? Texas Oyaji?
It is incredibly weird
> I think Russia might be one hell of the place where spy is around.
some shitty youtube conservative that netouyo love to flock around
いつもちゃん and her hard nipples is my favourite.
are we talking about the same girl or don't you have a pic of her?
Seems like the equivalent of /pol/, I wouldn't mind if it was more funny and less butthurt, but it's pretty much just butthurtedness all around.
well it looks like they do the whole 'hate niggers but like black people' thing with 外人 and 害人
that's kind of cute.
guys do you think the rape of nanking happened or not?
Of course not, idiot.
>someone comes into your room to talk to you while you're doing reps
>that picture comes on
Every god damn time.
I see no reason to doubt it did.
Not wanting to believe that one's countrymen have done terrible things is understandable, if not exactly commendable.
>my little aniki can't be this good swimmer
This is getting dangerously close to becoming an off-topic shitstorm.
Deleting my post.
anon! 落ち着いて！ 怖いよ！
Okay so roughly how many hours a day do I need to spend studying to be able to read at around a high school level by June?
I know about 200 Kanji and 300 vocab at the moment.
The only thing you'll achieve from trying that is a lot of disappointment and wanting to quit, which you probably will end up doing after.
Um... yeah I don't know but 24 would be a good place to start. If you can't manage that then 18 I guess. Either way I don't see it happening but good luck.
Instead of trying to force yourself to fit into arbitrary time frames, why don't you learn at a pace that is most effective for you, personally?
18 hours a day could definitely get you good enough to read without a text hooker in that amount of time. Of course, that's still not exactly high school level since you'll still need to look up words. And it would require pretty much all of that time to be spent between reading and anki, with no time cooking, eating, posting on 4chan, or jerking off.
That's implying that those 18 hours could be used effectively. I'd argue that on 6 hours of sleep consistently, even with drugs you won't get to a level that will satisfy what he wants in that time frame.
Is it better to learn the kanji to meaning or just cram all the info (stroke order, what it means, and the big list of pronunciation it can have)
e.i. 雨- Rain, ウ、あめ、あま
I won't quit I'm already determined to learn this language.
I need sleep unfortunately.
The thing is I need a ridiculous goal or a goal I can't achieve, it does help psychologically. Maybe lowering my goal would help.
Make your goal to read either a full length VN, or three LN volumes by that time.
I don't feel like I'm making progress. Is there anything else I should be doing aside from Anki, grammar study, and reading (while reviewing the grammar I forget as it comes up)?
Maybe you don't realize how much shit you actually have to know to be equivalent to a native Japanese highschooler. It's a lot, like a fucking shit ton.
The vast majority of people who study languages for extended periods of time usually don't get to a level of fluency close to a near-adult native. It's essentially impossible without living in the country for many years.
Ambitious goals are good, but having completely unrealistic ones will only lead to disappointment
lel, good luck reading things like 氷雨 村雨 五月雨 and 時雨 if those are the only readings you learn.
Listening practice is good if you intend to watch anime raw or listen to radio shows or anything of that nature.
It's much easier to see your progress in hindsight, I recommend not thinking too much about progress if you can help it. If you stay consistent and actively work on improving then you're bound to end up improving.
You could try adding production in as well, try writing and having natives correct it or find some Nips to chat with.
>learning every reading in existence for all kanji because it might be used in one word that you may see
Reading a full length VN would be good I suppose.
I guess I misunderstood really, my real goal is just to be able to read Japanese media and maybe understand raw anime. I just thought knowing up to a high school level was that.
High schools can actually read them. You're gonna start out cheating your way through them.
Alright thank you anons.
I'm going to start studying now.
Any good first VN recommendation to read in Japanese would be appreciated.
>understand raw anime
took me 2 years to do that. studied a lot initially but all I do these days is watch anime.
Living the dream
Having native-like knowledge can only really come from exposing yourself to gigantic amounts of real Japanese. But being able to read at a highschool level doesn't mean that you're as fluent as a highschooler -- I think that I misunderstood what you were originally saying.
I'd recommend practicing your reading speed/endurance early on. Reading Japanese can be really exhausting, it took me a while to be able to read for anything longer than 20 minutes or so.
If you go too fast you may have more trouble remembering what you learned making your progress even slower. Balance and commitment are more important then raw speed.
do you like old japanese music?
I think they have decent taste
Any recommendations for listening practice? I'll occasionally Japanese shows playing in the background, but that's mainly for immersion.
When you're starting out listening practice is pretty useless unless you have text to go along with it. Which means it's either japanese subbed drama/anime, or voiced VNs. Your vocab just isn't enough for anything else to be efficient.
Once you can read basic level conversations comfortably (maybe N2 level vocab?) then it's a good idea to start on pure listening
There's apparently a starcraft tournament in 10 minutes and there's a LoL tournament going on on the same website. >>100883681 May be worth checking out if you have any interest.
If not, there's some relatively easy things on Youtube that have good visual aids that can help ease you into spoken Japanese if you're unfamiliar with it. Subtitled anime is also a pretty good way to get into it.
Overall, find something you like and keep at it until it stops sounding like noise.
Yeah exactly, I wasn't too clear myself don't worry. With hiragana I can read decently, but katakana is a nightmare for me. I'll keep that in mind when I'm reading not too overdo it.
Anon it's like you know me.
That's not very old.
This one is good too: http://vndb.org/v10112
That's not very old.
wow I remembered this adorable song
No they don't.
Everyone on /po/ is a Japanese master
What is this and how do I proceed to marry her?
Can anyone help me with some katakana bullshit? It's probably esoteric but I'm not quite sure why some transliterations are Xァ instead of just X. For example:
I think I've seen it for Champion as well, it doesn't quite make sense to me and 11s I've asked who are fairly good at English don't really know either. I asked a couple about this and ヴ and other shit and they're like nigga it's とても難しいです and used as a mixture.
enka a shit, avoid that though.
>It's essentially impossible without living in the country for many years.
No. Khatz dispelled that myth a long time ago.
I'm talking about near native level proficiency. It'd be harder to get the level of exposure required for that without living in the country then it would be to just move to that country.
Anyone with basic computer proficiency can get that level of exposure.
There's clearly a misunderstanding here. Whatever your definition of near native proficiency must not be anything like mine.
You don't need to live in Japan to get native proficiency. That doesn't make sense.
I'm sure it's possible, but getting the actual amount of exposure you'd need would take a very long time, as well you'd have to go out of your way and explicitly spend thousands of hours producing.
The question is, if you're not living in Japan, why would you need native level proficiency?
That's a good point. Very few people do get near a native level with a second language that's as significantly different from their native one as Japanese is to English. You'd be able to read everything you'd ever want to long before approaching native level.
i'd really like to successfully install at least ONE FUCKING VISUAL NOVEL
now i remember why i stopped playing games
Not really, but it depends what you mean by "very long time". You could just read 15-30 novels and play video games for a couple years and only talk to Japanese people. It can be done in 4 years with an SRS and a lot of work if you count passing N1 as half of that.
I believe you anon. I believe you.
And do you think reading 30 novels will get you to a near native level? I don't think you can really achieve the same level of proficiency as someone has spent the last 20 years using the language all day every day in such a short time with that amount of exposure.
But at this point, it's just my opinion based on what I know about second language acquisition, I don't have any real data to work off of here.
If you can read 30 novels you will have near that level of proficiency, however that time-frame is impossible without the SRS in my opinion. The SRS is the enabling factor.
'Novel' is also pretty vague. I have a novel in 4 parts that's over 2,000 pages sitting on my shelf, because Japanese people love splitting books up. And another novel that's only about 200 pages.
I see what you're saying, but I don't know if by reading that much you'll develop the same kind of 'feeling' that natives have. When a native writes or reads in their language, they don't think about the words or the grammatical structure, it pretty much just happens automatically.
Although, after having a lot of input if you did have extensive contact with native speakers then I can see how those skills may potentially be able to start developing.
Do Japanese subs for Kill La Kill exist?
For your vocab decks, do you guys study cards both Japanese word -> English meaning and English meaning -> Japanese word or is it more constructive to do blocks of studying all one way or the other?
It's not the easiest show to watch with subs, try some KyoAni shit or kids shows instead:
Can someone explain the ん sound that's sometimes heard in some phrases like "ちがうんです！"? Is the ん actually written or is it one of those instances where the Japanese "soften" their pronunciation of a word (similar to how が can be heard pronounced んが)? Does anyone know if this phenomena has a name?
You must not be motivated enough. Stop talking about learning Japanese and discussing anime and get to actually learning and being able to at least read 4koma and fanart.
>It's all about tastes. Anything is easy if you really, really want to know what is being said
>You just have to find the thing that gives you the weeb boner to drill through to the heavens.
This, 100%. Listening to the "easy stuff" isn't actually easy if you don't really feel motivated by or interested in it. I've been chipping away at eps of KlK which probably would be considered no-good for someone wanting to work on their listening comprehension. Last week's ep took me 4 days to get through raw, but I got a lot out of it and had fun. That takes love and dedication.
>Listening is inexact. The more words and expressions you know, the more easily you can pick things up when they are muffled or spoken really quickly.
It's not just that: Having some understanding of how the language works/sounds and following context are also big helps in picking out words.
>If you don't know what word they're saying and you try to just get it by sound, you may end up getting it completely wrong. You may even find something that seems to fit in context, and yet still be totally wrong.
This is where "learning from your mistakes" kicks in, provided one actually checks their work (by turning on subs).
Give the ん a little mouseover and refresh yourself on the explanatory の.
～んです / ～のだ is an informal form of ～のです / ～のだ, if that's what you're referring to.
Does anyone else sometimes resort to slowing down the audio when trying to pick out what's being said in a show?
I haven't been able to find any. That's the one thing I need for my learning experience to be complete. I hear the DVD/BDs (will) have subs.
>It's not the easiest show to watch with subs, try some KyoAni shit or kids shows instead
You're not exactly helping, anon.
how would you translate this:
"I was in poor me punishment"? does it mean that she was "in the wrong" and was punished or more of a "oh, poor me, I got punished"?
This is your punishment for treating me poorly
i don't get the ? at the end
the ? was mine
Is なお in tweets meant to be "now" or 尚?
なう means now. なお means なお. Though there's always the possibility of mistyping I guess.
>If you can read 30 novels you will have near that level of proficiency,
No you won't. You won't even be at a native level in reading, much less speaking and writing. You're clearly underestimating native speakers.
And 30 novels within 4 years is completely feasible without SRS.
Cool and hip youngsters use 「Ｘなう」 to mean that they are currently at place X
Hopefully they eventually decide to be so hip that they just post in english.
Where do you even get japanese subs in general?
>Get out of here you fucking Korean
It makes me laugh every single time.
No it isnt. At least they're shitposting in English while most people here are too lazy to do it in Japanese.
How are you supposed to memorize how to write 2000+ Kanji? Unless you write a fair amount (of sentences) each day I just don't see how you would retain all of it.
You learn how to write the radicals and then just memorize how they're put together.
You do you learn to spell 2000+ words? Unless you write a fair amount of sentences I just don't see how you would retain all of it.
Please rate my latest card
>You do you learn to spell 2000+ words
The thing with English is that in most cases you can sound out a word. Can't do that in Japanese. Not to mention Kanji != words
Is it from JLPT 5 to 1?
Guess the Japanese are in fact NOT hentai
No, it's just cards I added on to the KD anki deck. I've already posted it to the DJT before if you're interested in using it
Are you having trouble, or are you just asking from curiosity? The short answer is that while each kanji is unique, the small parts that make up each character are repeated in different combinations in a wide variety of different characters. So most of the time you're just learning a different combo of parts, each of which you've seen dozens of times before.
You made this?
What else are you adding to it?
Yeah, can you post link?
I'm studying 日本語 for about half of the year and my only source for kanji was kanji senpai for android, but now, I'm interested in anki.
>You made this?
>What else are you adding to it?
I add whatever kanji I encounter while reading various sites/VNs, etc. I've slowed down recently though and only added around 160 new ones since I posted that deck. Once I get to 3000 I'll post an update.
>Are you having trouble, or are you just asking from curiosity
Both. I was stupid and didn't work on handwriting when I first began. So now I can recognize/read a whole ton of kanji but can only write a handful.
but that's a deck meant to fill the gaps Kanjidamage left.
Finish this deck first:
...I like きのこ帝国
Sorry, what you meant to say is
>Thuh thing with Aynglish is that in most cases you can sound out a word. Can't doo that in Japanees. Not to menshun kanji != words
The mnemonic method from RTK or kanjidamage is designed with writing in mind. You use the mnemonic to recall the components individually, then all you have to do is remember how to put them together. Personally, it never worked for me, but I am not too concerned with writing by hand, so no biggie. It makes me feel really dumb when I can't recall what a character looks like even after seeing it 1000 times though, so at some point I might try learning to write in earnest...
You some kind of hick or something?
>can read over 1500 kanji
>can't write 私 from memory
that's disgusting anon you should be able to at least write 私
That is one specific fucking term.
Not that specific, it just has no direct English equivalent so you have to describe the word rather then translate it. Plus it's internet speak.
It's like putting "buyfag: a person who needlessly pays money for digital goods that can easily be gotten for free; a person who collects anime figurines" in a dictionary.
Do you guys buy any study books to look over?
I've been studying for about 7 (almost 8) years now since I was 14 years old and took it for GCSE at school.
These are the books I've got used and find useful over the years.
There's like 3 that are actually useful in there and one of them is irrelevant because of the internet. I don't even see a proper J-J dictionary or even a j-e one that isn't shit.
That said, I have a small pile of books that are even worse because I didn't know better than to never pay for anything at the time.
books that you don't buy with the explicit intent of supporting the author/artist are a waste of money
What do you guys do for your reps? I just got to the point where I can read kana fine and have been trying different ways to go about kanji vocab the past few days.
I make a 20-card deck for each, and practice writing the kanji ten times each, though I'm still not particularly good with writing them from memory even after that. Is that a decent way to go about it? Is there anything else I should be doing for improvement? It might be a bit early for me to look into grammar, but I don't know.
kanji & vocab
I do the anki core decks, but as I repeat the phrase, I write it. Every kanji, even if it isn't the one being taught. So phrases that contain jukugo like 就職試験 are a real pain in the ass. But after a few days reviewing, you get to see is actually worth it, specially if you can divide the word in other jukugo.
That's a great idea anon, thanks, I'll start doing that.
I keep doing it because i've stuck with it so far, but I don't really think is a good idea. Reviews of only 100 cards may take you an hour. And the core decks, from 3 onward start throwing up really weird jukugo, and a lot of them on the same phrase. Like, that one, その事件の犯人はまだ捕まっていない, there you have to practice 犯人 and 捕まる.
It might be a good idea with some background knowledge in radicals.
Writing it might also be a good idea to do only when you first see the card and when you're going to hit 2, 3, or 4.
What ones do you think are good?
I'm a NEET anyways so it's not like I have anything better to do.
Something isn't right here. Is this just another case of handwriting differing slightly from printed fonts or is it a rendering error?
I'm practicing writing 管 right now, and it's such a fucking smug piece of shit. I can't stand looking at it. It just looks down on me with that condescending fucking look, goddamn.
It doesn't help that I can't for the lift of me get the proportions right.
What J-J dictionary and what J-E dictionary do you guys recommend then?
If you're writing in a college-rule notebook, that's half the problem unless you're using two lines to write or have a micron pen and a steady hand. Otherwise it's just a matter of making it look like you don't give a fuck while following some basic ratios and angles.
This helped me immensely with writing better and faster.
The internet. It's always up to date and free. Paper dictionaries are only good if you like learning words while looking for other ones. If you must buyfag a dead tree, the 新明解国語辞典 has some amusing definitions and the Green Goddess is the only j-e dictionary that has real definitions instead of vague, shitty glosses with no context, if I remember correctly.
There's also the Daijiten which is basically the OED at 20 volumes and has etymologies and first recorded use. It's overkill unless you're doing classcial textual analysis, though.
Yeah I'm using a college-rule notebook. Is the standard Japanese equivalent for writing something close to two lines of space? I'll probably make them bigger then. Also thanks for that literature, I'll definitely read over that.
Who Skype here? I need learning partners without the distraction of listening to 50 people in this thread.
>join the irc
>no one saying anything
>some people just leave
It's just hard to learn how to write properly on a small space. Once you get better and use a finer pen, you can make kanji fit in half the space, but first you have to master proportions, which is much easier with handwritten forms as they usually get bigger at the bottom.
Cool alright, I'll start big then. I started doing all this because I thought it might be a fun way to learn kanji. It's probably going to take fucking forever to get through them all, but at the same time when I see one I've written before in a juukugo, I instantly recognize it.
Some learning partners that aren't absolute beginners.
The reps are building up, /djt/. Is there any way to set Anki to do them in two sittings?
Leave halfway though and come back. I just do it on my phone throughout the day so it looks like I'm texting someone and don't have to talk to anybody.
How do I wide text?
Call me a slowpoke but I just realised that Shinobu from Monogatari's name is 忍, her long as fuck name is Kiss-Shot Acerola-Orion Heart-Under-Blade.
>心 under 刃
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Meme even explains this explicitly at one point. Though I don't remember if that was in Kizu or Bake.
le nisioisin doz it agean
It's in Bake but I didn't know Kanji at that time, no bully pls ;_
I was wondering what "slap your shit" means.
Is it the same as "slap your poop"?
My level isn't enough to understand it, 先生
What's the ありつけない here?
I don't want a machines help, since it will just assume it's some random root of ある when it's clearly a phrase but it seems to apply to finding a job or some shit.
No, it will tell you.
>since it will just assume it's some random root of ある
its the first result. Rikaichan is actually pretty good at recognition
Isn't the the same as using a machine translation? I thought that was looked down around here.
You're right, we should use telepathy to figure out the meaning of words we don't know
Rikai-chan is a dictionary. It does not translate anything for you. It just looks up words when you hover over them.
How can I make it so that Google IME is automatically in Kana when I switch to it? How can I make a hotkey to switch from Hiragana and Katakana? I tried doing it myself but I couldn't come across anything.
I thought the common practice was to learn all your vocab first and then read.
Well if you ask anyone else they'll tell you it's a crutch.
Alt or Ctrl + capslock switches kana and deleting the english keyboard option and just using english mode with Alt+ ~ is so much faster.
Is Anki for iOS worth the cash? Or are there better third-party flashcard apps that integrate with your anki account?
>Well if you ask anyone else they'll tell you it's a crutch.
As he said, it's nothing more than a dictionary that's slightly faster than cuntpasting.
>learn all your vocab first and then read
If you're trying to be funny I'm not seeing it.
>Well if you ask anyone else they'll tell you it's a crutch.
It is a crutch. And you're a cripple.
Figured it out. Ctrl and caps goes to Hiragana. Alt and caps goes to Katakana. Ctrl and ~ goes to whatever Kana you were on last and back to English. Thanks.
Does anyone know why the Rikaisama dictionary page won't come up?
Disable and reenable Rikai if it doesn't work.
It also doesn't like the frontpage if you have Appchan.
Hey man I type out all my lines by hand who the hell can even copy paste without tools and hookers.
I'm being serious that's what I was taught.
I thought this thread was for learning Japanese not stand up comedy.
I was talking about
Also, what's halfwidth and fullwidth supposed to be?
ﾊﾙﾌ ｆｕｌｌｗｉｄｔｈ. Kana should be fullwidth and english halfwidth or they look retarded.
aaa ａａａ aa
I can't find this kanji on the dictionary and I feel retarded because I know it's not a complicated one.
I see no difference between full and halfwidth English.
You're probably using Linux then.
Looks like 重. If everything fails, Google Translate has handwriting recognition. It's not very good, but can save you if you just can't find a kanji.
Nope. Windows 7. ｊｊｊ is that half width English? Because I typed that in fullwidth. The difference is when I pressed space twice, it went back to normal. But when I use halfwidth English, the font doesn't change at all
Those j's are full-fith, and appear to be so too.
Fucking weird. Whatever, I'll just stick to full width for both as they both seem the most normal.
Show me what halfwidth and fullwidth j's look to you.
Yes, it was that one. Thanks for the advice.
Wow, first time I've ever seen 顰蹙 actually used in a real sentence. I figured it was one of those fake words they invented just to scare gaijin.
Isn't it always automatically in kana? Hiragana first then you can switch to Katakana with alt+caps lock (or control + caps lock, they seem to work intermittently with me)
So how do I do the little tsu? The one that's used to strain the next character?
いつ is what it gave me.
come on dude
I'm seriously pressing every key I can.
"tu" is a superior romanization to "tsu"
I would get in the habit of using it
Type x before the character to get a little version
Nevermind. I found it. It's tt on the keyboard.
つ = tsu
っ = the strain
At least call it the 促音 or geminate consonant mark.
Well it's tt if you wanted to write a word that had a doubled t like 行って, but xtsu is the way to get the character itself.
Anyone else found out L does the same thing by trying to be racist with the IME?
I don't understand.
You're right actually I never noticed that, I figured that L would go to らりれるろ or something.
Raikuh yoo figuya tsatuh za ERU key iz za seimuh asuh za ARU key.
Who are the patriots?
>Raikuh yoo figuya tsatuh za ERU key iz za seimuh asuh za ARU key.
>Raikuh yoo figuya tsatuh za ERU key iz za seimuh asuh za ARU key.
Please don't type like this. Also I still don't get it.
I have a Japanese lecturer at Uni who talks like that. When she speaks English it genuinely sounds like everything is being pronounced through Katakana
He's saying that L does the same thing as X.
Reading comprehension is a valuable skill.
>Reading comprehension is a valuable skill.
Indeed. If you had a better grasp of it you'd be aware that I was asking what he meant with "being racist with IME" rather than the fact that the l key does the same thing.
he thought he was being funny
It's one of the hardest things for japanese people to overcome. It's also why I die a little inside when a book says that any part of している or です or any word, really is completely de-voiced.
In relation to ever using the L key in japanese, it's pretty obvious.
How far into Tae Kim's guide should I begin to try to read? Been looking through the reading list, not sure if I could handle anything.
I don't know what I'm supposed to infer from someone who just replies "I don't understand" or "I don't get it" to a statement I found easy to parse. I just assume you're dense.
It helps to read the whole thing just so you know where to refer to when you come across what you don't understand. The reading list is fucked anyway because the biggest list of things that are easy to read is just "any shonen jump". See also, >>100875891
I only learned about pitch accent recently and it's really been bugging me, I have a lot of difficulty hearing the pitch in natural speech. When I look it up I can hear the difference between http://www.forvo.com/word/%E9%AB%AA/#ja and http://www.forvo.com/word/%E7%A5%9E/#ja but on the spot when I hear the word I don't really notice the difference in pitch.
I always study in the toilet, i find it easier to concentrate for some reason
It's not a huge deal, most would still understand what you're saying.
It's not like Chinese where a wrong pitch completely changes the word.
No one knows why this page doesn't work?
How should I get a dictionary for Rikaisama if I can't use it?
mozdev has been down for days now. I'll upload the dictionary I have as soon as I can find where firefox puts it.
nevermind, just get it from here.
Just listen to more speech and you'll pick up on it. I never studied or dwelt on it and it came naturally (I know that some people have a ridiculous amount of trouble with it compared to others, but practice solves everything)
I do think it's a huge deal if you ever want to talk to an actual Japanese person without sounding like a caricature. But yeah, not if you don't.
Seen the pic of that discussion before, anon. Nice try.
Take your time and keep at it, anon. Are you exercising proper stroke order? It might also help to write it on gridded paper.
Thanks a bunch.
Isn't it like the equivalent of stressing incorrectly in English? Like I wouldn't hate on someone for it but I don't want to sound silly. I kind of have this feeling that because everyone speaks English, it means that we're very used to hearing really shit English spoken by Eastern Europeans or French people or whatever, thus we are relatively used to hearing bad English, the Japanese wouldn't be the same in this regard, I don't really know if that's actually just a load of bullshit that I've made up to scare myself into thinking that I sound like an idiot.
Hopefully I'll get it with time.
Just curious, what's your native language?
I didn't understand what you meant here. What are you saying about している or です?
As long as you aren't trying to squeeze your way into the culture and fuck with the collective hivemind the average person is hooked into, they're usually genuinely surprised you can say anything at all.
People with more exposure and those who have been abroad don't expect shit and may have enough rudeness in them to politely pronounce it properly. But no matter what you say or how you say it, never forget your set phrases or they think you're a serial killer.
Okay so those two mean different things. Jesus Christ, thank the Lord. I was worried, thinking that they both meant the same thing but it's just a different accent.
Hey this is my first Japanese thread. Interested in learning the language and just read the volition. Does /a/ recommend this guide?
A lot of resources will tell you that it's 'shteru' and 'dess' but even with heavy slurring in dense slang, there's always the tiniest bit of a vowel in there. Like this little hiccup at the end of every mora. Natives notice when you omit it entirely.
And just to fuck with your listening if you haven't already noticed it, sometimes を IS うぉ depending on the person and the dialect.
So how would している
be technically, according to the book, pronounced? Shiteru?
I'm a noob at Japanese, I wanna check this real quick. Is this correct? 僕 はペンを借りてもいいですか？
i think??? it's
に instead of は
Yeah and apparently it's spelled the same way to describe hair; just the Kanji are different. Fuck, this is going to be a 'long', 'long' road.
u wot m8? Just pay attention to the context of the conversation and you wont confuse the two.
Yeah but still having to learn different Kanji because of the many homophones in Japanese is troublesome.
However a native says it. There's a lot of room and a lot of dialects, but there's always a vowel in their mouth, even when they think there isn't.
The problem is that outside of linguists and speech therapists, what either a native or a foreigner believes they are hearing is usually dead wrong. Most teachers of both english and japanese aren't really aware of these things and can't teach phonics worth shit because of it.
this is me, Is this correct??
Seems like it.
>I'm being serious that's what I was taught.
So you were taught incorrectly, you're bitter about it, and now you want to spread as much bad information as possible.
my favorite is this
I'm not sure you know how to say what you're trying to say.
Are you using google translate? Be honest.
What is vi and v5r? I'm pretty sure one is u-verb and one is ru-verb but I'm not sure which is which.
I know this is the incorrect way of saying it and I have no idea how to actually say it. You should really work on your Japanese.
Holy shit this is a lot to digest. Not to mention all the fucking romaji
why is the my cat from hell guy here
vi is intransitive and v5 is 五段 (-u verb). The r means it's a godan ending in -ru. v1 are 一段 (ru) verbs. I don't know who decided that u ru shit was less confusing than 2 numbers.
It's just like watching djt study.
That. is. adorable.
Why couldn't I have been raised in Japan?
Until I moved to the West
whats with all the annoying tv personalities on jap tv
Surrogate friends, nippons are really lonely.
What do you mean?
Anybody willing to share other halfway interesting shows that have real people and lots of subtitles? Whenever I go diving all I find are variety shit with people that aren't funny or actual comedians that go way over my head.
Dat bro imouto, man.
Their mom's a milf
How long did it take for hiragana to "click" for you?
I can't really read it well, I am very slow and read out loud.
I'd like an answer on this too. I just want to know when you start to be able to read it without having to think about every letter.
>hiragana to "click" for you
There is no such thing, just like when you learned to read as a kid it takes practice.
Go play pokemon. You become a kana master by the time you get to the second gym. Constant exposure is key.
>Kiwi for making the meat more tender
Is that for real?
Is this...a joke?
It never clicked, it just got progressively easier as I practiced.
Are you proud of this? Are you fucking sorry? You just ruined my ENTIRE NIGHT. THE WHOLE FUCKING THING WITH YOUR GOD DAMN PUN. FUCK YOU AND YOUR KATANA.
Godfuckingdammit moot. I'm starting to think he gets a little notification every time a picture is switched and laughs his jew ass off.
Playing pokemon? Absolutely serious. The picture? It's one of 4chan's many hilarious 'bugs'.
Is this any good?
I sure do miss the kana days. Have your fun. It's the last time you ever will ;_;
would that be right?
If the people I stalk on twitter is any indication, you just append 気がする on the end of whatever it is.
That's the best I can do
Not at all.
Trying to translate word for word shows that you have no idea how languages work in general.
This is the best example I found lurking, and not all 気がする's carry the same meaning.
I have the pokemon GBA games, but they're american retail. Are there language settings to set it to Japanese?
You can't exactly translate letters
Nope. You'll probably be best off emulating them.
You can always emulate and pirate. The newest Pokémon games have options for Japanese (both kana and kanji) if I remember correctly.
Here, I used one of the secret power words for finding things and this was the first link. とは is some powerful shit, so use it carefully.
There any good apps for Japanese on androids?
I've got anki and a tae kim book, but I'm trying to find more stuff that I can mess with during breaks at work or in transit.
If there are, no one has ever shared them here.
Just think of something to do with anki. I made my own conjugation cards and turned the entirety of verb grammar into one of those charts every other language has individually for each verb tense.
I can't do much of anything with anki right now.
The app is limited and my PC is out of it.
I was hoping for a dictionary or some simple kids game or something, oh well.