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Just wanted to know what does /a/ think about does fansub groups that include translator's notes at the end of the episode?

pic: related
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wiki works fine
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AS LONG AS THEY NEVER MENTION 4CHAN
then notes at the end are fine
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They should fuck off.
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You're going to get a bunch of people who go "THEY ARE SO STUPID ARG" but it's fine. It's not in the way of the episode so you can just stop watching if you don't want to learn something.
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occasionally TL notes at the end or beginning of an episode are justified, but very rarely. Almost 100% of the time it is possible to just write the script in such a way that the meaning is conveyed. For instance, you could have a big TL note at the end of an episode explaining what a "shinigami" is, or you could just call them a death god. AFK is extremely good at TLing this way, and Triad as well.
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For something like this, to fill us in on something that is actually fucking important, it is acceptable. When I was watching the episode it just suddenly just pulls a "LOL IN DEBT" on us without telling why.
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They're pros.
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I really enjoyed the notes at the end of Mai-Hime that Static-Subs put in, they were very informative actually. I missed out on them the first time because I watched speedsubs, and then when I downloaded the full one later I was like FUCK YEAH!
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wiki works fine
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>>10084290
depends on relevance and execution.
I like AFK and SS's way of adding notes about name meaning and shit like that to the end of episodes for SZS Mai Hime/Otome.
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>>10084350
WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT
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TL notes at the beginning or end are ok, but within the show itself, they're evil. They take your attention off the animation or dialouge subs. Effort should be made not to use them.

Once I saw a TL note explain something in the background that had no relevance to the conversation happening the foreground. I raged.
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>>10084385
BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW rdAINBG IZ BV HARD
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>>10084331 occasionally TL notes at the end or beginning of an episode are justified, but very rarely.
I'd hate to think how you must react to on-scene translator notes then. The fact that notes are put at the end is perfect, since anyone who thinks them useless can simply not watch them.
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They are quite useful in explaining all the puns and symbols that don't translate. What gets me is when they give translator notes over stuff any amerifag would know anyways. I was watching a sub the other day where they were explaining what an EMT and CAT-scans were!
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TL notes are okay for really impossible to translate stuff.

But I absolutely HATE it when I'm watching Gintama and every two seconds a little THIS IS A REFERENCE TO FIST OF THE NORTH STAR or SUKONBU IS PICKLED SEAWEED, KAGURA'S FAVOURITE SNACK window pops up.
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>>10084443
I've seen worse.
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WE ARE TOO LAZY TO TRANSLATE THIS JOKE, HAVE AN EXPLANATION WHY YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LOL INSTEAD
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>>10084413
The notes we're talking about here aren't really TL notes, though, they're cultural or historical notes. That's different, it's just extra cool info.

My problem is just far too often a group sees a pun and decides "oh well can't translate it" and tosses a TL note on the screen or at the end of the episode, rather than actually putting in some effort and figuring out a way to make it work.

As much as DB started out as a speedsub group, apparently they're getting better - see this link http://dattebayo.com/pr/66 for an example on how you can translate a pun that "only works in Japanese". Good TLs will do this.
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>>10084487
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>>10084513
this guy did a much better job explaining my point.
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>>10084526
APROVED!
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They are awesome, because I'm lazy fuck and can't bother with google
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>>10084487
Damn, I hope that was a comedy
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Gentlemen, I like subs.
Gentlemen, I like subs.
Gentlemen, I love subs.
I like fonts. I like typesetting. I like timing. I like translator's notes.
I like it when I download a raw and a separate softsub file.
I like it when more more than one group does a different sub.
I like it when the subs have a dual audio for dubs.
I like it when subs are well seeded for torrents and when they are uploaded in full to streaming video.
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Ayako's translator's notes actually are good because they actually help you understand what's going on, and it's at the end of the episode past episode preview
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Better than having them floating above the subtitles during the episodes, but ultimately unnecessary.
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>>10084591
On a unrelated note, who is this guy?
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>>10084652
Hitler
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>>10084652

The Mayor.

Hellsing.
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>>10084491
For Gintama, which relies on a huge number of references, I like onscreen notes, but I agree it can get overwhelming if there are too many. For ep 50 they put everything at the end, which was a good move.

Are there any more of those Spice and Wolf notes? Someone post them kthx
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I like translators notes very much.

Very useful in stuff like Ghost Hound with all the BRAINZ discussion.
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>>10084626
Still, if the group isn't good enough to properly translate something, I'd rather have a TL note a the end then just miss that facet of the show altogether.

But I guess that's why I wait for slow groups where I don't have to make that choice.
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>>10084652
go download the hellsing ova
there are currently 4 of them
you won't regret it
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>>10084591

can someone post this brawl "i like.." short story?
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>>10084679
maJor
lol mayor
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>>10084691

References should NEVER be noted. If you can't recognize them yourself, explaining them won't make them funny either since you don't know the source material anyway.
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>>10084707
>>short story

facepalm.jpg
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>>10084707
on this page somewhere in this thread, because I'm way too lazy to do it
http://www.bloodknight.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3155&start=90
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>>10084721
Generally I would agree, but if it's some historical background info, not just explaining something for a joke, then I don't mind that.
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>>10084736
huh, looks like you need 2 be logged in
o well
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i don't care.
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If someone wants to make translator's notes, they can do so on their webpage. Or in any other place and format that was intended for reading. Video is for video, it's a bitch to read from your player window and there are obviously better formats for walls of text.

Seriously, fansubbers who alternate original videos in any way are just boasting their egos, like dogs or cats making piss-marks. And translator's notes shouldn't be needed anyway. They're usually either unnecessary, factually wrong or taken from Wikipedia anyway, let's face it, fansubbers are rarely specialists in Japanese culture.
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I like translator notes that are before or after the actual show. Sometimes they're fun to read, and if I don't feel like it, I can skip it. Notes that pop up in the middle of the show can go either way. It really depends on what they're explaining and how big they make the note.
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>>10084721
Without any information at all I find the sequences less funny, or at least pointless. It's like things are happening for no reason. Sorry, but I prefer the notes. Also where do you get off asserting that that something should "NEVER" be done? What if there are lots of people like me who prefer it?
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>>10084591
SHOKUN.
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>>10084774
It doesn't have to be just Japanese culture; you didn't even look at the OP image, did you? Anime sometimes makes references to other cultures or fields that it's perfectly reasonable to expect one of the team members to be well versed in. At least occasionally.
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I don't mind translator notes that are put at the end or beginning of an episode. They do their thing as they're supposed to.

Excessive spam of idiotic translator notes during episodes on another hand are more often an annoyance, very much so when it's common phrases being explained.
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Like, this is a shitty TL note. If I wanted a definition of each japanese word, I'd buy a fucking dictionary. IT'S YOUR JOB TO TRANSLATE, NOT TELL ME WHAT EACH WORD MEANS.
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>>10084854
Holy shit some one actually saved it.
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>>10084774 it's a bitch to read from your player window
No it's not, and it's definitely more convenient than finding the website to read the notes after an episode, especially if I was watching several at once. Also in the case of Wolf & Spice I don't think you can get the information in English from anywhere, unless someone's written an in-depth summary or something.
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>>10084858
Sigh... You chose the least important part of the post to argue with.

Anyways, I believe saying anything on any subject should be made ONLY when someone actually knows what they're talking about. TL notes are no exception. I actually appreciate people with actual knowledge sharing it (even if I hate when they do this inside the movie, which should be completely free of it). From what I've seen that's rarely the case, though.
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>>10085039
>>You chose the least important part of the post to argue with.

that's because it was the only part I disagreed with heh
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>>10084970
You know, this is a special case because the info can't be found anywhere else, so, technically, you're stuck with what translators tell you anyway, but in a normal situation:

You're either interested in something, in which case you search the internet to learn exactly what you want, not what translators think you should know...
...or you're not interested, in which case you don't care about the notes anyway.
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>>10084774 fansubbers who alternate original videos in any way are just boasting their egos
They're already distributing copyrighted material without permission, adding on subtitles and signs and karaoke, and you're talking like translation notes are something completely different. Protip, they aren't, they're just more freehanded modification that, because some viewers find them irritating, are called defacement or fansubber wanking. But it's all the same thing in the end, the only thing that matters is what viewers want.

Shit, why am I being so serious on /a/.
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A good translator knows what needs notes and what doesn't. It will be blatantly interfering with the course of the show, or it will be timely.
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>>10085234
agreed, tl notes are ok in small amounts, but damn stupid when a group just throws them at everything like its some japanese culture documentary
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>>10085214
I think he's implying that hardsubs are bad, and he wants subbers to just distribute softsubs without actually modifying the video. in other words, he's very ignorant.
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I was hopeing there would be a TL no why that dude got so pissed off at this scene. The only thing i could think of is that he is anon and hates to see anyone with a woman since he is so ronery but that dosent seem to fit much
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>>10084774
>>10084774
Many quality fansub groups actually modify the video during typesetting. For example, for a signboard with japanese words but not enough space to put the english translation, some typesetters will EXTEND the size of the signboard in the video, or ADD a second signboard in the video to put the english.
It's a common act among fansubbers, especially quality ones.
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>>10085359
I doubt it, saying softsubs are 'ethically' better than hardsubs because they don't "deface" the video is just retarded. He's probably just making an arbitrary distinction between what's accepted (subtitles, karaoke, signs) and what pisses him off (TL notes).

>>10085458
There was discussion about this last night, I think various reasons were: Lawrence is going around begging but he's bringing his woman around like they're strolling around town, which doesn't display an earnest attitude. Also, she might look like a whore or something, and the residents are very conservative about that. And having a good-looking woman also is also considered to mean that you're frittering away your money on her, so it's insulting to bring her around with you when you try to borrow it. Finally, the last guy is probably just a crazy asshole.
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>>10085458
see the whole discussion at >>10077264
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>>10085458
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1445707&postcount=78
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>>10085672
No, I'm not saying anything like that and you're just making things up. And, yeah, I prefer softsubs, and hate karaoke as much as tl notes. What of it?
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>>10085822 I'm not saying anything like that and you're just making things up.
I said you weren't, read carefully. But least you're consistent in hating karaoke as much as TL notes. And probably graphical signs too, right?
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>>10085928
Well, they're actually usable. I'd prefer them softsubbed, but as long as it's a bitch to do (or plain impossible), I guess I'll live with them.
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>>10086052
wait, which kind of softsubs do you like? the mkv-style type where a video is provided along with the text so the timing works out and you're sure to get a decent quality video, or just distributing an .ass or whatever and ending up with 70% of the stupid people who download it using the wrong raw and everything just goes to shit
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>>10086118
The embedded ones. Standalone text files have their own set problems, some of which you mentioned.

Geez, but it's completely straining away from what I was trying to say in the first place... The point was that subbing should be just interpreting the film in a least intrusive way possible, but some subbers are under delusion they're both expected and actually able to add some additional value to the video. But they can't, and the results are usually ugly.
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>The point was that subbing should be just interpreting the film in a least intrusive way possible
The point was that there are no set standards or goals for subbing, merely what subbers produce and what viewers demand. To be less of a smartaleck, I'll say that translators throwing in definitions of Japanese words in subs willy-nilly when perfectly good English substitutes are available is retarded, and when they actually use TL notes to DEFINE English words in subs, it's a fucking crime.
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good discussion, continue please
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Ayako is doing a great job with their end of ep notes. The stuff they re explaining should actually have been in the anime itself for a better understanding (as it is we have no idea about why the price of armors crashed after being stable for years for example)
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Don't worry, be happy.
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>>10084882
They should've explain what a sou-uke was

TN: "Sou-uke" mean "a total bottom in sex in BL."

Meh, I don't care if it's in an episode, actually I prefer it within the episode if a reference show like Yakitate!!Japan because I'll understand the whole pun means and I can laugh at it. It won't be as funny at the end of the episode when you can't remember the joke clearly.

Meh, as long as they don't do "Just as keikaku (TN: Keikaku means plan)" shit, I'm fine.
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>>10084290
when done well they can really add to the story... most of the time they're shit.
But i like it when they explain stuff at the end, or even better at the begining. I believe the subs for samurai champloo that i watched were fucking great.

>>10084721
fuck yeah, that always annoys me. References are supposed to be gotten, if you don't get it, you don't get it.
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I like them too, but I hate those that takes up 2 lines for simple stuff just because of unnecessary stuff like
""Keikaku" (計画) is Japanese and translates into "Plan" when translated into English."
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As a rule, translator's notes suck. There are some special cases where they are necessary (like Akagi, where the western audience would most likely be totally lost if Triad didn't explain some of the basic terms), and some other special cases when they are fun (like SZS's endings where AFK explain the punny names - they are unobstructive and semi-interesting, even though they won't make the names any funnier to the non-Japanese), but that's all those are - exceptions. As a general rule, notes should be avoided.

Especially bad are notes that EXPLAIN the plot, or references, or things like that. Those aren't just annoying, they are tantamount to an insult on the viewer. Just let us fucking figure the plot out ourselves, assholes.
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Also bad: notes that just smack of WAIIII JAPANESU CULTURE YOU MUST WANT TO KNOW MORE ^_^. For example, if there's a mention of some food, like oden, some motherfuckers feel the need to explain to us in a translator's not what it's made out of. WE DON'T CARE. We can infer from the context that it's some type of food and if we really want to know more, we can fucking google it ourselves.
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>>10088453

>>Especially bad are notes that EXPLAIN the plot, or references, or things like that. Those aren't just annoying, they are tantamount to an insult on the viewer. Just let us fucking figure the plot out ourselves, assholes.

Seconded.

And notes shouldn't sit on top of the screen for 10 or 15 seconds. If we want to read the whole thing we'll hit pause. I know the group that subbed Baccano! did that a few times and it was pretty annoying.
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>>10088486 For example, if there's a mention of some food,
Except for Yakitate and other food shows of course. But I get your point.

I consider the a.f.k. name translations for SZS a model of what should be TL noted. A-E's notes for Yakitate's were also very good for in-episode notes (even if they did contain references at times).



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