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Just watched Nekomonogatari Kuro (I had forgot to watch and ended up watching Season 2 without it...)

One thing got me really confused. Araragi blatantly says Black Hanekawa is Hanekawa herself and that she's only pretending to be a cat. Furthermore, Hanekawa herself starts speaking normally without the nyah thing in the end.

But then in Neko White, we are told that Hanekawa isn't Black Hanekawa and isn't the tiger either. We are told that she is cutting her personality into oddities to stays pure and clean.
Which explantion is true? The impression I got from Bakemonogatari and Nekomonogatari Kuro is that Hanekawa is sort of a rotten being and that she is aware of everything she's doing. But Neko White completlety changes that notion into making us thinking she doens't know anything and even the OP says that.
Did Nisio changed his mind of what kind of character Hanekawa would be?
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>>100803716
She transforms into BH whenever she gets stressed. She gains conciousness in that form during both neko black and in the ending of neko white(when she talks to the tiger).
Whatever Araragi says can be wrong, since he isn't sure of what is wrong with her.
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The cat is an actual oddity, one that does give her supernatural strength and abilities. At the beginning, she blacks out what happens to her during that time, and feels like someone has taken over her body, but then she realizes that she actually is Black Hanekawa, too. There's like a mental barrier going on there sometimes though.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

All the girl's embody some form of mental disorder or another. This one is Hanekawa's.
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>>100804663
I don't get it, so she was conscious during Neko Kuro, but wasn't in Bake and Neko White?
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>>100803716
I figure in Neko Kuro, after she attacked her parents, she gained some realization of what was going on and could take her body back if she wanted to. Instead, she let the cat continue to fool around and she was just kind of a passive observer, probably because she didn't want to face the consequences of what she did (which ties in with how she avoided dealing with her problems).

In Neko White she only briefly took control when talking with Kako at the end. But the cat quickly took back over when the tiger attacked.

Kako and Black Hanekawa were just fragments of her psyche that she refused to acknowledge and deal with. Black Hanekawa emerged due to her stress, and Kako due to her envy. She never dealt with her own issues and instead meddle with everyone else's (hence why the meddle cat was a perfect fit for her). Only at the end of Neko White did she face her problems.

The scene with her getting rejected by Araragi still gets to me. It was necessary for her to make good on her promise to deal with her issues, but I still felt awful for her.
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Nisios characters lie all the fucking time.
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>>100805496
except kaiki
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>>100805603
I can't figure out Kaiki.
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>>100805362
I think I sort of get it now, thank you anon.

>>100805603
Funny thing, when I was rewatching Nisemonogatari, this scene seemed really familiar with Kaiki's situation.
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>>100805887
That was one of my favorite part of momogatari
That and all of kizu
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>>100805006

Can't be entirely DID, since the other "personality" was explained, and we know the Sawari Neko and Hanekawa became one. There was all this talk of her cultivating her own hero in Black and used the Cat. The cat actually existed and spoke at length about wanting to protect its Mistress. She allows the Cat to use her as a vessel.

What people got confused by was when Hanekawa came out in Black and admitted to pretending. She and the cat are accomplices, and the cat does protect her with magic when it uses her body as it says in White, otherwise her bones would shatter at jumping into orbit. So DID isn't quite the way to explain the relationship. Black Hanekawa is a part of Hanekawa, but not just a personality.
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Didn't she for some reason lose her memories of Black Hanekawa in the last episodes of Bake? I think I remember Oshino saying something to that effect.
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>>100805844
Conman with zero regards for anything but himself
Obsessed with his dead love interest (Kanbaru's mom)
Respects Crab's tenacious, dedicated personality
Helps Hitagi as she's close to Kanbaru and having Crab die would devastate her
Weakness: Metal type attacks
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>>100806005
She doesn't retain any of her memories from Black Hanekawa if I remember correctly. But Black Hanekawa can access regular Hanekawa's memories.
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>>100805844
I can't figure out the love for him. He's cool but I like almost all of the other major characters better.
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>>100806115
But it was heavily implied that he was also obsessed with Senjougahara, both before and after she got to show her strength.

>Weakness: Metal type attacks
So he's a fairy.
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>>100806266
I didn't really care for him until this last season. That fucking OP sold me.
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>>100806115
>Weakness: Metal type attacks
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>>100806433
He just respects her blunt personality and diligence. Plus she can (kind of) see through some of his bullshit. Obviously he's several steps ahead of her though. He's more concerned about Tooe and to a lesser extent Suruga. And of course himself.
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By the way, do you guys think Araragi was in love with Hanekawa? This bit in the end left me confused.
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>>100806834
He wasn't. He just felt/feels incredibly indebted to her. And sexual frustration.
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>>100806834
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>>100803716
Novelfag here. The reason why hane was conscious during kuro and not white is because she was getting better at cutting her psych from herself. In kuro she was new at it so she was mostly conscious (90% her/10% cat). In bake she was starting to get it and was around 30% conscious. In white she mastered it and the cat was in 99% control.
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What the hell happened with sengoku? Why the hell did she go batshit crazy?
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>>100806710
But supposedly, he ruined Hitagi's life because he selflessly tried to improve it when she was still a loli,he didn't see much of her.
On that not, I still don't know how conscious was he that he was going to fail with Nadeko since he stopped doing the job for himself and started doing it for Hitagi.
Which is kinda fun since he also got away with it (and even improved the situation) for similar reasons. I guess a failure nulls another failure?
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>>100807030
Yeah, this is all explained.

If you like Hanekawa at all you should read Neko White.
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>>100807070
Selfishness plus jealousy plus wanting to have a goal in life.
That and Ougi messing with her so she gets worse faster.
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>>100807070
She repressed all her feelings and dreams to act like a cutesy model schoolgirl, then couldn't deal with the fact that Araragi wasn't interested in her.
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>>100807070
Schizoid yandere
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Is Araragi a bad boyfriend or what? He's with Senjougahara but he can't keep it in his pants, kissing and molesting other girls.
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>>100806834

He was, he was bullshitting and got a broken heart without asking her first.

That last question where he said they were both unfortunate and unappreciated, and they would be that way all their lives was the key point in the last battle in Black. When Hanekawa said there is no way that's right, he thought she rejected him. He basically misunderstood her, and it was obvious that he puts her on a high pedestal, even called her his second mother in Nisemonogatari.
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>>100807531
I tend to agree. Sure, she loves his white knight syndrome, but he also fools around with about every girl he sees.
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>>100807531
He's never cheated on her emotionally.

He kissed Tsukihi and said he felt nothing
He only kissed Shinobu to shut her up
Yotsugi kissed him
Hachikuji kissed him, he did not initiate
Kanbaru raped him
Only brushed Karen's teeth

He even rejected Cat even though he wanted to fuck her for the first half of the series. The guy is faithful.
Meanwhile Senjou is literally begging for Kaiki's dick and actually likes him emotionally. Fucking slut.
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>>100807764
>literally begging for Kaiki's dick
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>>100807764

>wanted to fuck her for the first half of the series

>implying he still doesn't want to

Have you seen his Hanekawa collection and the fact he invited her to sleep in his room right after rejecting her? Hanekawa could ravish him and he would love it and not fight it.
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>>100807764
>Kanbaru raped him

When did that happen?
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>>100807764
Already discussed, but neither Kaiki or Senjougahara have much interest in the other. Hell, Hitagi seemed more interested in Tsubasa than she was Kaiki.
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>>100808538
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>>100808600
This delusion. Did you even watch the show?
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>>100808600
Why are you seriously responding to it?
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>>100808616

What the fuck, why does he have Hachikuji's hair. Man I feel like I forgot so much from nise and bake. I need to watch the BD's one of these days.
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>>100808616
Ah, those Mayoi twintails. That scene was gold.
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>>100808642
Yes, as well as read the LNs. You're reading too much into something that isn't there.
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>>100808734
>why does he have Hachikuji's hair
I don't even watch Monogatari and even I get the joke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDfPyJKwmO4
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>>100807699
Plus, it straight-out stated that he fell in (and out of) love with Hanekawa at the end of Neko Kuro.
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>>100808734
>why does he have Hachikuji's hair
A rapist learns his lesson.

>I need to watch the BD's one of these days.
Wait, have you not watched the Bake BDs? It's night and day.

>>100808743
The entire scene leading up to it was gold, too.
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>>100808801
Where in the LNs does it show Senjou does not still love Kaiki, it can't be her in denial or doing some banter about how she "hates him"
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>>100808836

I understand why he would have her hair, it was just I do not remember that scene at all.

>>100808909

God damn that's a big difference. So that gif from bake or nise?
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>>100809074
The gif in >>100808616 is from Nise.
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>>100807764
>He only kissed Shinobu to shut her up
Not really. We don't know what goes on in that scene because Nisio is intentionally very vague about their relationship. He outright stated he wanted to kiss Shinobu previously, then he kisses her and it's nothing? It's a shaky conclusion at best.

>Yotsugi kissed him
He knew she was just doing it to drive a wedge between him and Shinobu.

>Hachikuji kissed him, he did not initiate
You are in extreme denial if you think there was nothing emotional between Araragi and Hachikuji.

>Only brushed Karen's teeth
Someone doesn't know about Hana.
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>>100808909
>BDs

RIP African trees
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>>100809164
Fuck, don't remind me.
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>>100808935
There wasn't any particular line or scene that implied otherwise. Obviously not everything the characters say should be taken as accurate, but I've read all the books and there was nothing to imply that she felt anything more than respect for him (during the series, not prior). I'm sorry to piss all over your delusional shipping fantasy but that's the way it is.
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>>100808909

Christ, how could the boys in their school keep their hands off Hanekawa? Araragi even says she is a popular class rep, why is a curvy girl like that not swimming in numbers and having her own boy toy entourage?
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>>100804425
That's such a weird concept to me. That is one of the only lessons from a tv show that has just persisted in fucking with me.
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>>100809151
>Someone doesn't know about Hana.
Tell me more.
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>>100809358
Why would I ship her with Kaiki? I don't like him.
There is plenty of hints in the show which would not be included for no reason.
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>>100809364
She was so perfect in every way that people around her were constantly reminded of their own flaws and imperfections. They felt more uneasy/repulsed than attracted, even though she's absolutely delicious.
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>>100809393

Cat joins NGO
Kanbaru is annoyed that Araragi keeps sending her perverted jokes in texts
Shinobu riding in Ragi's new ride with him
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>>100809364
A sensible explanation would be that she's a nerd and doesn't do "fun" things. A SHAFT explanation is that there aren't any boys in the class to toy, nor is there even a teacher. The bullshit Nekomonogatari explanation is that she so perfect that she makes everyone else feel inferior.

>>100809374
It's probably just the elevens being elevens, but my takeaway was that she's telling him not to lead other women on.
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>>100809616
No i meant Karen wise, anything worth telling.
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>>100809393
Araragi is so "friendly" with Karen that it even weirds Kanbaru out.
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>>100809653
>A SHAFT explanation is that there aren't any boys in the class to toy, nor is there even a teacher
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>>100809526

Now she will travel the world, and stories will spread about this wise, tiger stripe haired hot Christmas Cake cat lady that will solve your problems for a paltry fee.
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>>100809798
I'd _hug Cat
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Araragi is an oblivious idiot that will unknowingly fuck everything up.
At least in Kaiki's eyes
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>>100809653
That's kind of a real thing though. The vast majority of dudes won't even approach someone they think is out of their league. And this is Japan we're talking about, where the males are naturally beta as hell, and the girls don't like to put out.
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>>100804049

The irony of putting those two in the hospital? It saved their marriage by forcing them to talk with each other in a hospital room and they were only there for a week. Made it seem worse than it was.
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>>100810120

Which made Araragi super beta, does anyone have the scene in Kizu on hand, the storeroom scene where she pretty much gave him the green light and he pussied out?

I loved how she browbeat him.
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Why the fuck didn't Hanekawa have her own room? I get she never asked for one and avoided bringing it up but why didn't they give her one in the first place? I would've beat the shit out of them too if I were in her situation.
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>>100810355
Well, he did use the opportunity to get some sweet trophies.
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>>100810120
>That's kind of a real thing though.
It's almost a real thing. They way they describe it isn't a real thing, though.

>>100810355
>she pretty much gave him the green light
Didn't she say that she'd hate him forever, or something?
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>>100810553
You're thinking about in Nisemonogatari. In Kizu Hanekawa pretty much outright said she was willing to fuck him.
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>>100810673
You're going to make me find the scene, aren't you?
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>>100810355
"Hanekawa."
"Yes?"
As Hanekawa tilted her head to the side, I said in my most gentlemanly manner, "Could I touch your breasts?"
"............"
Hanekawa's facial expression froze while her head was still tilted.
Nevertheless, she still kept her smiling face.
A heavy air got a hold of the PE storehouse.
What should I do when there is this heavy atmosphere......
"Your breasts."
"I heard you."
Uhmmm, Hanekawa looked up, then down.
After that she looks back at me again.
"Why would you need it?"
"I need it at all costs."
I say.
I make my most serious facial expression.
"You didn't see it. What Kissshot-Acerolaorion-Heartunderblade in her complete form looked like."
"Hm? Well...... I have seen her 12 and 17 year old forms, so it's not like I can't imagine what she looks like as a 27 year old."
"It is probably beyond your imagination."
I say, raising my index finger.
"She possesses breasts that are beyond your imagination."
"......Breasts."
"I fear of losing while I am distracted by those breasts. Those breasts will probably shake a lot in the middle of battle. That's why I want to gain some training on female breasts as a countermeasure."
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>>100811025
"Oooh."
Hanekawa groaned.
"That's a surprisingly stupid reason......"
"D-Doesn't it make sense to you?"
"......Hmm."
Hanekawa quietly closes her eyes and brings her eyebrows together as if she has a headache.
"......Fine then."
"Huh!? Really!?"
Why?
Did she concede some parts of it made sense!?
"Wait a moment."
She says.
First Hanekawa unfastens the scarf and takes off the school sweater -- then she extracts the cuff of the blouse inserted in the skirt. While I was puzzled over what she was doing, she also winds both arms around her back, and inserts her hands under her blouse.
Some seconds passed.
From inside her blouse, Hanekawa pulled out her unhooked bra. With an adeppt hand she quickly folds it, and she hides it under the mat she was sitting on.
After that, she looks at me.
"Well then, touch them."
She said.
"............!"
I didn't wish for this much!
What is this situation!?
I can't get my heart ready.
S-She didn't need to take it off!
She didn't need to take off anything!
"E-Eeeeh?"
Besides, what is this?
Somehow, the moment she took off her school sweater and unfastened her underwear, it seemed like her breasts inflated...... is it an optical illusion?
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>>100811097
No, vampire eyes are immune to illusions.
Hanekawa now, at least from what I can observe from over the blouse, wouldn't lose to Kissshot, no, possibly she possesses a bust that cannot even be compared to.
Moreover the shape was also splendid.
Although she took off her underwear and they should have lost their support, it was like they were defying the laws of physics -- it's as if Hanekawa can disregard gravity while being an earthling.
This is beyond my imagination.
Of course, it was because I thought Hanekawa was qualified for it that I made that request, but even so, it was very rude to say it was for training.
Hanekawa Tsubasa.
She can have a fair match with Kissshot on her own.
It was unthinkable that Hanekawa had such breasts!
B-But.....?
Getting up, Hanekawa walked towards me (at each step her chest showed a movement that exceeded imagination, so I shut my eyes, and I couldn't move, like I was paralyzed), and then she immediately sits in front of me -- lining up her arms on both sides, she pulled tight her dorsal muscles, and with a jerk she threw out her chest.
In that posture, her breasts seem even bigger.
Undoubtedly this could be said to be asserting one's chest.
Moreover, since it was quite a thin blouse, the whole image of Hanekawa's breasts could be said to be within a hair's breadth of being explicit.
"Araragi-kun."
"Eh? Ah, what?"
"Since you are going to massage them, massage them right."
"R-Right?"
"I think you should massage them for no less than sixty seconds."
"Si-sixty seconds......"
No way.
The hurdle is too high.
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>>100810985
Why the fuck haven't you read Kizu?

>>100811025
>>100811097
Why the fuck are you enabling him?
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>>100811162
What is she meaning with massage them right?
Before I knew it it changed from touching to massaging.
Crap, now I can't say it was a joke......
What am I doing to my precious friend?
"Don't go easy on me!"
"Y-Yessir!"
As told, I prepare both hands by reflex.
I prepare them, but aside from that I don't move.
At any rate, because of vampire grip, I can't really avoid going easy, but I don't know how much force I should use. To begin with, should I touch them from above or from below...... and I haven't the slightest idea of what to do after the first move.
Certainly they won't fit inside my hands......
Therefore I hesitated going from the front.
Maybe approaching from the side -- no no.
Uh, there is a more pressing matter though.
"H-Hey, Hanekawa."
"Hm? What is it?"
"Could you turn your back?"
I say with a vanishing voice.
"It's hard to do it while seeing your face."
With just the light of the flashlight, maybe Hanekawa wasn't able to see me well, but being a vampire I could see her facial expression perfectly.
Her face was already flushing.
She was biting her lips.
It's hard.
"............"
Remaining silent, Hanekawa suddenly nodded meekly, and faced the opposite direction.
I could see the roots of her braids.
I never looked at it carefully, but what beautiful hair...... there really are no signs of damage. I guess it habitually receives a careful grooming.
"Ugh......"
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>>100811187
>Why the fuck haven't you read Kizu?
I have. I just happened to completely alter what happened in that scene in my mind.
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>>100811187
Because

>>100811225
Ah, but even now it's hard.
Since Hanekawa turned her back, I have to move my hands around her body, but in this case her arms neatly aligned on her sides are slightly in the way......
"Ra-Raise your hands over your head."
"Is this radio gymnastic?"
Despite saying that, Hanekawa raised her arms.
With this the way was opened.
And then I slip my arms under those armpits -- obviously, going this far, our bodies are on the brink of contact. Actually, because Hanekawa is facing the other way, if I try to touch her breasts, naturally it will feel like I am hugging her from behind though.......
Even perceiving the distance is hard -- should I cross my arms? No, is it easier to grasp if I keep going normally?
I open my fingers.
Hanekawa had not moved at all from before -- but even from behind I understand she is nervous. However, I am certain I was nervous.
My heart is racing.
"Y-You won't get mad afterwards?"
"Don't worry. I won't get mad."
"Really?"
"Really."
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>>100811323
"......Okay then, just in case there is a trial later, please say 'Araragi-kun, please fondle my bra-less boobs'."
Snap!
I have the impression I heard that sound.
It must have been the sound of Hanekawa's veins popping out. Or maybe it was her facial muscles that popped out.
"A...... A-Araragi-kun, p-please, fondle m-my bra-less boobs."
"No, it won't do saying it in such a low voice. That makes it seem as if you hate it and I'm forcing you to say it against your will. You must state in a much louder voice what you want me to do to what, by your own will."
"Araragi-kun! P-please fondle my bra-less boobs!"
"......'It is really an honor to have my boobs massaged by Araragi-kun'"
"It is re-really an honor...... to have my boobs massaged by Araragi-kun......"
"Err......'I developed these lascivious boobs for the sole reason of having Araragi-kun massage them'."
"I developed these l-lascivious boobs for the sole r-reason of having Araragi-kun m-massage them."
"Really. It didn't look like it, but you are pretty perverted, Hanekawa."
"......Yes, I am incredibly perverted, I am sorry."
"You don't need to apologize. No matter how perverted you are, it's not like someone would be bothered by it."
"Th-That's right, ehehe."
"Well then, concretely, in what ways are the boobs of the perverted and serious class rep lascivious?"
"I can boast that th-their size, and their softness...... are peerless in their lasciviousness!"
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>>100811388
You can stop now. Someone can just read the rest on Baka-Tsuki if they want.
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>>100811388
Aah.
I see, now I get it.
During puberty even I experienced the common perplexity of why I was born in this world...... but now, at the age of seventeen, I finally found the answer to that question.
I was enlightened.
I lived for the sake of this day.
I existed for the sake of this moment.
The person called Araragi Koyomi was born in this world in order to experience the day of today...... no, that's not it. It is not on a personal level anymore.
Surely this world has existed this long just to make me experience the day of today.
From this point on the rest of history will simply be a throwaway match!
"That is to say, normally it's impossible to massage the tits of a friend!"
I ran away.
I was the one who threw my hands up, I made three steps back and I started crying.
It was a posture exceedingly close to prostration.
"It doesn't happen! It doesn't ever happen!"
"......Chicken."
Hanekawa said in a terribly quiet voice.
Without even turning this way.
Without even looking at my posture exceedingly close to prostration.
"Chicken. Chicken. Chicken chicken chicken chicken."
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>>100811441
Alright I'm done.
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>>100808883

He still has a gignatic amount of affection toward her though. Nisio really did he best to hit Tsubasa fans in the gut and make their relationship ambiguous, especially after Kizu, Kuro and Bake, he still says she is his role model and repeatedly addresses her as "My Hanekawa".

She would have to do something horrendously vile to ruin the worship he has for her.
>>
>>100811388

>"I developed these l-lascivious boobs for the sole r-reason of having Araragi-kun m-massage them."
"Really. It didn't look like it, but you are pretty perverted, Hanekawa."
"......Yes, I am incredibly perverted, I am sorry."
> "You don't need to apologize. No matter how perverted you are, it's not like someone would be bothered by it."
> "Th-That's right, ehehe."

Hnnnngh.
Fuck you that I can't see this animated yet, Shaft!
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>>100811671
Oh I'm not denying that. I just don't think he's in love with her in the traditional sense. He obviously deeply cares about her. And really he should with how much she helped him out.
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>>100812143
As much as I loved that scene my favorite part with her was when she finds Araragi's ero-books featuring "class reps with glasses" that he bought after seeing Hanekawa's panties. She figures out immediately when and why he bought them and teases him about it and almost sounds into it. My dick was diamonds.
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>>100811388
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>>100809364
I never liked Hanekawa because of the huge glasses and ugly hair. She became more interesting and more attractive after the haircut and no glasses.
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>>100812704

Shinbo really messed up how cool Hanekawa is portrayed. That assured, noble, powerful presence doesn't always flow through in the anime. The thing that still makes Araragi and even Senjougahara go, "yeah, she's the real thing." Even Kaiki is intimidated.
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>>100813029
Okay, the 3DPD opening had a disgusting, frumpy vision of her, but she looked fine as animated before her haircut.
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>>100813521
Are you saying that her haircut in Nisemonogatari isn't fine?
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>>100813667
I was only commenting on her looks pre-haircut, not making any statement on them afterwards.



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