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Why was Fate/Zero so much better than Fate/Stay?
>>
It wasn't, really.
>>
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Gee, I have no fucking idea. It is SUCH a mystery.
>>
Because it wasn't filled with stupid sluts who were constantly getting in the way.
>>
>>100732680
Because DEEN.

FSN VN > FZ LN = FZ anime > Shit >>>> Deen Stay Night.
>>
It was different. I wouldn't say it was better. Zero doesn't quite go into as much detail on its characters that Stay Night goes into on Shirou.
>>
because it wasn't based on an eroge?

the new f/sn anime will be shit too
>>
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>>100732814
What ever do you mean ?
>>
>>100732930
How was the LN for FZ compared to the anime anyway?

I've read FSN, but I wasn't sold on reading the LN for FZ without the multiple routes aspect.
>>
because it wasn't trying to mash three very different routes together
>>
>>100732841
>Gil
>Alexander
>Gilles
>Diarmuid
-Sola-Ui
-Kerry
-Maiya
>not sluts
>>
>>100733052
Some things are better done than the anime, some things worse.

Kayneth vs Kiritsugu is much better in the novels. Most animeonlyfags don't even understand it because it didn't explain it well.

Banquet of Kings and and Saber vs Berserker are also much, much better in the novel. A lot more fleshed out.
>>
Because Rider wasn't a bitch.
Because Caster wasn't a bitch.
Because Assassin was relevant.
Because Berserker was a badass instead of just an angry hulk.

The only thing that was really missing was Lancer.
>>
>>100733175
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6aPk8BHwf0

This was better than the anime fight.
>>
>>100733354
>Zero Assassin
>Relevant

True Assassin in FSN was more relevant.
>>
>>100733354
>Because Assassin was relevant.

F/SN True Assassin was great and Fake Assassin (while not a fucking Assassin) was ok.

F/Z Assassin is just a bait so that Gil can gather info.
>>
>>100733354
Zero Assassin was relevant?
are you being serious
>>
>>100733354
>FSN Berserker
>not badass
Please kill yourself.
>>
>>100733354
This is bait or you haven't read the VN. Because all of them are wrong.
>>
>>100733484
>>100733477
>>100733438
>>100733354
Assassin is NEVER relevant.

>>100733492
Heracles was powerful.
He wasn't bad ass. There's a difference.
>>
>>100733543
Are you seriously telling me that the scene when he protected Ilya in UBW, when he was already dead yet he continued fighting for her wasn't badass?
>>
>>100733593
stop answering him
>>
>>100733593
>breaking out of Enkidu

Pure will man.
>>
>>100733175
What was done better in the anime? Aside from the batcave fight, of course
>>
>>100733686
Gil's slutty scenes in Kirei's basement.
>>
>>100732680
Because...
>Tripfag
I'm kidding, I can't take you seriously now.
>>
>>100732680
Because it wasn't about a retard trying to fuck highschool girls.
>>
Talking about FSN, has there been any info whatsoever on the ufotable project since it's announcement?
>>
>>100733543
>Lancelot wasn't powerful as well.

In every instance he fought against gil, he either drew or won.
>>
>>100733543
>Assassin is NEVER relevant.
What about that one time where Fake Assassin joined the race in Carnival Phantasm?
>>
>>100733791
I didn't say that he wasn't powerful.
I just mean he was badass.

Lancelot had far more interesting motives than Berserker did. Heracles was just
>BLAAARAGADFR PROTECT DA LOLI BJASFDSAIFDS
>>
>>100733791
Because he was a hard counter for GoB.

Next you're going to say Shirou was powerful, on par with Gil. Not Archer, Shirou.
>>
>>100733786
next week the type moon ace with info comes out.

Expect many threads, personally i've stocked up with beer for the inevitable celebration and/or dissapointment
>>
>>100733593
>BLAAARAGADFR PROTECT DA LOLI BJASFDSAIFDS
There. I just summed up Berserker's entire character for you.
>>
Now that I think about it, why did Heracles have so much trouble against Girugamesh when Lancelot gave him a run for his money?
>>
>>100733686
Summoning scene, fight at the docks, fight at the river, Rider vs Assassin, Rider vs Gil, off the top of my head.

A lot of scenes also benefit from voice acting and atmospheric music, like most scenes with Caster.
>>
>>100733972
Lancelot's Knight of Honor was a hard counter for Gate of Babylon.

Heracles was a demigod, and Enkidu (the chain) is a hard counter for Divinity.
>>
>>100733868
Difference being that Lance wasn't just a hard counter, He slapped sabers shit hard as well.

Not to mention he survived a full on strike of riders A+ anti army NP.
>>
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>>100733354
>Because Caster wasn't a bitch.
This. Because lovecraftian horrors are the greatest cool.
>>
>>100733972
Enkidu is a thing.
>>
>>100733791
Gil was going to end the first fight right away but Tokiomi (rightfully) stopped him.
>>
>>100733972
Heracles was focusing on defending Ilya and so was unable to dodge GoB spam and on top of that has a measure of divinity making him a prime target for Enkidu.
>>
>>100733972
The Vn points out that he was purposly standing in the way of GOB to protect Illya. If she wasn't there then who knows
>>
>>100733786
There was a PV that shows absolutely fucking nothing. It's made of clips from FZ and the VITA OPs.
>>
>>100734080
>Knight of Honor was a hard counter for Gate of Babylon

Not a hard counter. Just good against it.
>>
>>100733354
>Because Caster wasn't a bitch.
She was great in F/SN and CF.
>>
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>>100734146
Yeah he was going to end it up throwing more stuff at him

Because it worked so well the first two times
>>
>>100734146
He hadn't even pulled out arondight yet, and the amount of times in fate were any statement has been proven wrong renders that whole ' no-one couuld survive' irrelevant.
>>
>>100734242
She still had a vagina and let her emotions run her ambitions.
>>
>>100733972
Lancelot had the dexterity to counter GoB while Herakles was a pincushion
>>
>>100734309
Arondight seals Knight of Honor, though.
>>
>>100732841
Kerrytugu was much worse and bigger slut than anyone in F/SN
>>
>>100734354
She just should've quit the war with her husbando.
>>
Alright, badass manly Rider or lovely Nee-san Rider?
>>
>>100734379
>Increases all stats by one
>Doubles his saving throws
>Protection of the fairies increases his luck when in danger (ie when he needs to use a saving throw).

He wouldn't need KOH against GOB because he's already got an A++ NP
>>
>>100734517
The problem is getting close to Gil.
>>
>>100734435
As much as I love dat ass, I gotta go with BADASSMANLY.
>>
>>100732680
fz had great servants. maybe because all of them had some time in the spotlight. Caster and Berserker we're my favorites.

fsn still had great servants too.
>>
>>100732680
Because there were 5 women in F/SN who should have just stayed in the fucking kitchen
>>
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>>100732680
Easy question OP
>>
>>100734555
>Rider
>D Agility
>A Endurance
>Gil deems him worthy to use Ea on
>in the anime (bad example i know) gil goes 32 gates on him
>Iskander gets close enough to strike him if not for enkidu

>Lancelot
>A+ Agility
>A Endurance
>Thats not even including the effects of Arondight

Im sure he'll struggle.
>>
>>100732680
Because it wasn't. C'mon, Jake, you were the only tripfag I almost didn't mind until this thread
>>
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>>100732680
Did you just watch the F/SN anime?
>>
>>100734771
>Iskander gets close enough to strike him if not
for enkidu

No fucking shit. The guy didn't move an inch because he had everything under control.

Cu didn't manage to get close and do damage. It's not far-fetched to assume Gil is agile when he wants to.
>>
>>100732680
>better servants
>no high school kids
>no Shirou
>10 times the budget
I don't know man, I think it will have to remain a mystery forever.
>>
>>100734942

This is true. Herakles blew Alexander's charge out of the water: he made it to Gilgamesh and managed a swing, Gil just retreated a bit and renewed his assault.
Then Herakles made it to him a second time and Enkidu came out.
Then he busted out of Enkidu before finally succumbing.

All while he was completely unable to dodge or Ilya would have been destroyed.
>>
>>100734677
Sakura did.
>>
>>100734942
>Cu didn't manage to get close and do damage.

Because Cu is a demigod and this weak to Enkidu.
>>
>>100735296
They fought for 12 hours. Enkidu was not used (except maybe at the very end), otherwise it would have ended a lot sooner.
>>
>>100734942
>Cu still under a command seal not to kill
>ranked down in all stats

Cu wasn't at full strength in fate, and he still managed to fight for 12 hours
>>
Friendly reminder that Prototype Gil is best Gil.
>>
>>100735364
It is still motherfucking Cu with a good ability against GoB spam.
>>
The animation was orgasmic.
Plus, Shirou was a total bitch.
>>
>>100734900
Watched the F/SN anime.
Read the F/SN VN.
Watched the F/Z anime
Have not read the F/Z VN.

>>100734845
>Because it wasn't
I thought it was.

Kiritsugu's rivalry with Kirei was awesome.
>>
Because you are a secondary, OP.
>>
>>100735464
>F/Z VN
Ya blew it.
>>
>>100735464
>Have not read the F/Z VN.

I wish there was one.
>>
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>>100735464
Shirou/Kirei was better.
>>
>>100734845
different jake, check the trips for both. This one's an imbecile.
>>
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>>100735535
2gay
>>
>>100735364
I wonder how the war would have been if Bazett didn't knew Kotomine and joined the war for other reasons.
I mean they are both broken as hell when not nerfed.
>>
>>100735500
>>100735535
>LN
Sorry.

>>100735552
I liked their interactions more, but I liked seeing Kirei develop as a character in F/Z was far more satisfying to me.

It didn't feel like as strong of a Rivalry in F/SN since Shirou was just continuing Kerry's legacy against Kerei.
>>
>>100732680
because you haven't read the VN
>>
>>100735464
But there was no actual rivalry between Kotomine and Kerry. Kotomine had some delusions and development while all the Kerry did was pissing his pants every night about how horrifying Kotomine was.
>>
>>100735427
You think Cu is bad ?

Imagine his bro Ferdiad against GOB spam
>>
>>100732680
Because Studio DEEN fucking sucks. Wait for Ufotable's adaptation of F/sn.
>>
>>100735500
>>100735535
FZ does actually have a VN now. Just saying.
>>
>>100736718

It's one of those cheap mobile phone VNs though.
>>
>>100736634
Studio DEEN sucks at LN and VN adaptations. I'm liking Sakura Trick (Lesbian Physics aside) and a few of their other recent non-novel adaptations.
>>
>>100732680
Why is this bait the most uninspired bait around?
>>
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>>100736634
If it's a straight adaptation it'll have some great parts but it'll also have some ridiculously fuckboring parts as well, so I'm not sure about its overall quality.
>>
>>100736761
Your point?

With a linear plot like F/Z, there's not really a point in distinguishing between an LN and a VN. They'll be the same regardless.
>>
>>100732809
This
It wasn't, you guys just liked it because it was more ``serious''
>>
>>100736853

ufotable hasn't let us down yet. I trust that they have a good grasp of Type-Moon.
>>
>>100732680
It isnt, but at least I know that I can happily filter your tripcode now.
>>
>>100736782
Actually their LN and VN adaptations are the best.

>Touka Gettan
>MariMite
>Seizon
>Yami to Boushi

It's just that all people know are fsn and umineko
>>
>>100732680
Because Saber got to wear a suit and got treated like a MAN.
>>
>>100736916
>because it was more ``serious''
Damn straight I liked it because it was more serious.

You don't make a VN about mythological characters, and then spend half the time deciding which girl to bone or what to cook for dinner or drooling over the size of Rider's ass.
>>
>>100736930
>weib kruez
>futakoi
>coyote ragtime show
>manabi

>ufotable hasn't let us down yet
top lel
>>
>>100737057
>Insulting best Nee-son
Fuck off.
>>
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>>100737057
That was fun too, but wasn't enough to make it better then the prequel.
>>
>>100737057
It's a fucking eroge. The route you pick is the one with the girl you get to fuck. What did you expect?
>>
>>100735464
Kudos to you for being able to actually watch the anime, I couldn't do it.
>>
>>100737113
Deal with it, faggot.

Turning Medusa into a fucking semendemon just shows that Nasu wasn't actually serious about F/SN.
>>
>>100737057
It was a fucking eroge, what did you expect? The route you go through is the route with the girl you get to fuck. Like all the others.
>>
>>100736782
>Lesbian Physics aside
It's in the manga too.
>>
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>>100737162
It wasn't easy.

Especially around the point where they started haphazardly introducing HF plot elements.
Good lord, that shit was awful.
>>
>>100737212

You act as if doing that was completely revolutionary and unexpected for Nasu. Secondaries show themselves up real nicely sometimes/
>>
>>100737162
So you weren't hear when it was airing and everyone thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Then again the tsukihime anime is what got the whole west interested in type-moon and actually got the VN translated in the first place.
>>
>>100733543

Yo, turbonigger, Hercules is the only servant sans EMIYA that could have beaten Gilgamesh.

In fact, he could do it by simply overpowering him if he was the archer class himself.

Herc is broken as hell, just nerfed hardcore by the Berserker class.
>>
>>100737236
>>100737163
>Like all the others.
Which is why it wasn't as good as F/Z.

You know what F/Z was so much better than F/SN?
Because it's what F/SN should have been.
>>
>>100737317
I was not, thankfully though.
I actually just started Tsukihime, I love the atmosphere it has.
>>
>>100737389
Being powerful doesn't automatically make you a BADASS.

Heracles character was
>ASDFJAAASDFIOASD PROTECT THE LOLI FDASJUAUASDFZXCV
and nothing more.
>>
>>100737016
I kinda hope that they add in more retroactive nods to FZ like Saber in a suit or Gil not being a giant dickbag 24/7
>>
>>100736634
DEEN always ruins adaptions. Just look at Pupa. That has Blood-C levels of gore and censorship.
>>
>>100737317
>So you weren't hear when it was airing and everyone thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

That was never true of the FSN anime except early on before people realized the horror that was unfolding before them.
>>
>>100737212
But Medusa got turned into a monster for being a slut. Of course she'd still be a slut when summoned.

I do think he should have gone with the original idea for Rider though, even in the final version. Perseus going full scumbag tactics and becoming what he hates for the sake of reviving a master who died wishing for him to be happy is way better than the shitheap that was no personality Medusa and worst character in the entire story Sakura.
>>
>>100737591
People liked it until the VN was translated. It was the same thing with Tsukihime, but nobody even appreciates that the VN would have never been translated if not for the anime.

I wish I had that blog post stating this.
>>
>>100736634
DEEN fucked it up I agree, but the source material is shit. It won't be as good as f/0
>>
>>100737649
If that's true, at least the anime had a useful purpose.
>>
>>100734282

F/Z berseker can't beat a 32 weapon GOB, 16 he can deal with although. Read the LNs
>>
>>100732680
- The visual novel format doesn't lend itself well to adaptions
- F/Zero had a much larger production budget
- Butcher adds a more adult spin on what was essentially a teen drama with awkward H scenes interjected in inappropriate places
- Fate is the least eventful route of FS/N but was the main focus of the anime
- The FS/N anime tried to combine elements of other routes unnecessarily rather than focusing on one
>>
Because F/SN was an eroge.

Seriously, if it did away with those altogether, it would have been a lot better.
>>
>>100737742
If your familar with the Fate universe it's full of people saying they can't do things and then doing them.

Have you even read the Vn
>>
>>100737764
>- The FS/N anime tried to combine elements of other routes unnecessarily rather than focusing on one
Not really defending this but it is very common (and even more common back then) to shoehorn all the routes they could into VN adaptations back then. With the idea being, they could please everyone and give the most story without having to make separate anime.
>>
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>>100737742

To die in my King's arms, by my King's sword....

It's as if... I was a true, loyal knight.
>>
>>100737845

Word of God is Word of God.
>>
Why even bother joining the Grail war after you summon a Lancer?
>>
>>100737236
The only people who get really butthurt about F/Z are the people who think that the dating elements from F/SN actually contributed to the story somehow.
>>
>>100738020

Because no master of lancer survived to tell the tale that lancer is a auto-lose class.
>>
>>100737875
Lancelot is probably the most interesting and deepest character in all of Arthurian lore, and F/Z just shit on it.
>>
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>>100738020

In a regular war he'd slap some serious shit
>>
>>100738055
To be fair they did for the Fate route.
>>
>>100738175
Exception to prove the rule.
>>
>>100738020

>Lancer of Black
>An auto-lose

Do you even motherfucking Vlad the Impaler.
>>
>>100738020
W-well there's like one or 2 decent lancers.
>>
>>100738135
>Lancelot is probably the most interesting and deepest character

He's just a cunt that betrayed his King for a fucking fling.
>>
>>100737742
Is gil using binary?
>>
>>100738175
To bad his Master came inside him and he got fucked by a priest.
>>
>>100738325
Who wouldn't?
>>
>>100738325
He does, apparently
>>
>>100738135

>french fanfiction
>interesting or deep
>>
UBW > Zero > HF >>>> that other route not worth mentioning.
>>
>>100732680
I like them both for different reasons, but one thing I think Fate/Zero handled a little bit better than Fate/stay night was the servants.

The relationships between the servants and their masters were done well in both, but hardly any of the stay night servants had their pasts mentioned at all if I remember correctly. At least compared to how fleshed out they were in Zero.
>>
>>100738020
Just get yourself a Servant Strengthening Device and you'll be fine.
>>
>>100738290
I don't mean the lore presented in F/Z, I mean that present in Le Morte d'Arthur and the Once and Future King. He didn't just "betray his king for a fucking fling." He fell in love with Arthur's wife, and ARTHUR FUCKING KNEW ABOUT IT. People don't realize that in Arthurian legends Arthur was a fucking beta who knew about the affair the whole time, and only acted to execute her after Mordred, his bastard son, exposed them publicly.

But I digress. He fell in love with her, then literally spent two years adventuring because he knew if he was around her he might betray his king, until Arthur literally ordered him to stay. When the affair starts, he hated himself, and that was what eventually drove him to "betray" his king (Even though Arthur quietly encouraged him to take his wife away. Again cuckold beta). The shit hits the face when Lance accidentally slays Gawaine's brothers in the melee.
>>
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>>100738598
But I liked Fate.
>>
>>100738598
Fucking love the tiger dojo.
>>
>>100738336
>Priest
Servant saint more like it. Plus that weakness only kicks in when he goes vamp mode which he normally wouldn't do.

Plus the vamp mode comes with his vampiric fog, which was so strong it threaten'd to drain all the servants in the area of mana, thus distrupting the war. hence why Jean made the servants gang up on him.
>>
>>100738598

Best scenes in UBW > Majority of HF > F/Z > Rest of UBW > Rest of HF > fate
>>
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>>100738598
I feel the same way
>>
>>100738598
HF is the most interesting Route
Rin is the least awful heroine
UBW is the best Route
Taiga is best girl
>>
>>100738664
Theoretically Servants in the Grail War are supposed to keep their identities under wraps because it pretty much reveals all their tricks and abilities. So in that respect, the FSN servants were much more clever.

It's just that the FZ servants were all about muh honor and muh ego or muh jeanne and never cared a single fuck about showing off their abilities.
>>
>>100738694

it helps that in this context Arthur just took a wife because she had to being a king and all.
>>
>>100738598
That I can agree with.
Except I actually liked HF about as much as Fate.

I'd consider F/SN better than F/Z overall, though, if MoS was actually written. But without it, I prefer F/Z's story.
Also, Taiga is best.
>>
>>100738694
In that respect the Arturia concept does actually make some sense.
>>
>>100738694

He's a fucking sperglord.

>He fell in love with her, then literally spent two years adventuring because he knew if he was around her he might betray his king

Just don't put your dick in her, sperg. Easy enough.

>When the affair starts, he hated himself,

As well he should, traitors are scum of the earth.
>>
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>>100738834
>Taiga is best.
>>
>>100738918
>Ilya
>remotely better than even Saibah
>>
>>100738738
Yes.
>>
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>>100738598
>>100738834
>>
>>100738802
Word of god says that if Diarmuid had not have met saber, he would have been convience by kayneth to use hit and run techs against the other servants.
>>
>>100738598
>I have shit taste.
ftfy.
>>
>>100739033

Why does Saber have to ruin everything?
>>
>>100732680
No dense faggotry and Saber is actually likeable. In fact, everyone is quite likeable and diverse unlike Stay.
>>
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>>100738918
Don't tempt me.

I'm not immune to Ilya.
>>
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>>100738955
>speaking ill of Ilya
Those scenes where she noticed Shirou about to cry were so heart warming
>>
>>100738881
Well yes, obviously it was a betrayal, but Lancelot is actually a fairly interesting character. I mean yes, Lancelot was a fucking moron too. his only son, Galahad, was conceived when a blonde girl got him drunk and then pretended to be Guinevere
>>
>>100732680
Better human cast
Rider was godly
No shitty romance plots
More screen time for Gilgamesh
Saber wasn't a submissive cunt
All the characters felt like people instead of cardboard
>>
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>>100739116
>>
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>>100739116

Does this help?
>>
Why the fuck are you wearing a trip? Sage.
>>
>>100739146
Saber was a useless cunt instead!
>>
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>>100739181
Now that was just uncalled for
>>
>>100739134

It's a shame, I love his apparently awesome combat prowess and otherwise firm loyalty, but traitors deserve nothing less than death.

Or in some cases maybe just exile, but they should never be forgiven, ever.

What a waste of good potential, thank fuck for Galahad.
>>
>>100739181
QUICK, SOMEBODY CALL DR. GILGAMESH.
>>
You just summoned a Lancer for the Holy Grail War, how do you proceed?
>>
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>>100739033
So basically the reason he didn't follow his Master's orders is because he wanted Saber's pussy?

Jesus christ, what a fucking manslut.
>>
>>100739372
Which lancer?
>>
>>100739422
Any Lancer but Vlad.
>>
>>100739372
Hang out with my lancer bro and fight through the war honorably.
>>
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>>100738694
Don't be so mean to Arthur-chan! He loved Lancelot and Guinevere both, and knew about Lancelot's love for Guinevere because it was completely public. But Arthur didn't know for sure that they were actually having an actual affair behind his back; he had a strong premonition, sure, but Mordred and that one other dude brought him proof of it, and he was forced to punish Guinevere.
>>
>>100739372
run the fuck away

actually fuck the lancer first if it's cute
>>
>>100739277
But neither Lancelot nor Guinevere die of unnatural causes...

Mordred kills Arthur though
>>
>>100739372
Immediately tell him to kill himself and then flee the country.
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>>100739391
Diarmuid as a manslut actually fits pretty well
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>>100739372
Hope it's the one that didn't die a shitty death.
>>
>>100739451
Sir Agravaine was the other guy, I think. Agravaine was one of Gawaine's brother. Literally all he had to do was whisper "stop fucking my wife" and his kingdom wouldn't have collapsed.
>>
>>100738802
Thats true but I still would've liked them to elaborate on their characters a little more. Rider, Lancer, and Berserker's mythologies are fucking interesting and none of those get mentioned or have their own spin put onto them in Fate/stay night. It could shown how and why they do things the way they do. Hollow ataraxia is too little too late.
>>
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>>100739372
Only one thing to do
>>
>>100739474

Isn't that because Lancelot was simply too good to be killed?
>>
>>100739446

Cú Chulainn? let him have his fun and don't retrict his abilities. tell him to go after the master of servants that can beat him

Diarmuid Ua Duibhne? tell him to go assassinate masters while their servants are fighting, other than that, hit and run tactics focusing on doing unhealable damage to the other servants to weaken them and then slowly pick them off. kill the masters of servants that are stronger than him.

>>100739565

Instead she got sealed for a extensive period of time
>>
>>100739682
Pretty much
>>
>>100739682
Yeah that's probably it. Lancelot was all but invincible, and basically the muscle to Arthur's ideals.
>>
>>100739588

Arthur being beta doesn't justify what Lancelot or Guinevere did.

Lancelot was supposed to be a Knight of the Round Fucking Table ffs, if anything it's worse that it was him and not some random Knight.
>>
>>100739372
I keep a low profile and wait for the rest of the magi to duke it out. With a little bit of luc- oh who am I kidding I'm dead no matter what I do
>>
>>100739762
>>100739788

If he wanted to atone, why did he fight back against Gawain's brothers? Or Gawain?
>>
>>100739372
Have Lancer kill himself and run far, far away.
>>
>>100739372
You know? I always wanted to try that polejumping onto masters strategy with Cu...
>>
>>100739828
>if anything it's worse that it was him and not some random Knight

This I agree with, and that's why the affair led to the collapse of the kingdom (and of course, the slaying of Arthur at Camlann). But for god's sake he's the FUCKING KING, tell your best friend and chief knight to keep it in the pants. King Arthur in the Arthurian canon runs into the same problem as Kiritsugu in F/Z - his ideals are twisted and used against him
>>
>>100739899

Gawain told him to fuck off. which pretty much fucked Arthur in the end, if Lancelot was in that final battle Arthur would have survived
>>
Kerry >>>>>>>>>>>> Shirou
There you go.
>>
>>100738055
>What is Heaven's Feel
At least read the novel before judging it.
And when you do it don't skip all the text, since things do happen in FSN and it's not only kitchen and sex.
>>
>>100739992
Refresh my memory - Gawaine dies too right?
>>
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>forgetting the best Master

Emotionless Jackie Chan is the strongest
>>
>>100740088
>Emotionless
It's like you really haven't seen Carnival Phantasm.
>>
>>100740044
HF sucked, and the only people who like it are slut apologists.
>>
>>100739985

How do we know for sure Lancelot would have tipped the scales? Or that Arthur even wanted his help in the first place? I mean, that must feel pretty bad for the guy, having to beg the guy who shagged his Wife for help.

>Gawain told him to fuck off.

Wasn't it Gawain who was killed after trying to kill a tired Lancelot for a whole day, and then Lancelot killed him with a fucking twig or something?
>>
>>100740046

No, but Gawain did admit his mistake of not letting Lancelot fight with them. Admitting his hatred of Lancelot brought his King to her deathbed.

"...in the chance there is a next time. If there is an opportunity to restore my honor - a second life - then at that time I will devote my everything to the king..."
—Gawain

Which is why Gawain acts like he goes in F/E (He still is a disrespectful asshole although)
>>
>>100740219
The only people that like Heaven's Feel are the same people that might like Attack on Titan. They need grimderp bullshit sugarcoated in Heaven's Feel so they can think it's a good story.
>>
>>100740088

D-do you think he saw Caster again after they both died?
>>
>>100740088
That's such a stupid fighting pose I'm still mad after all this time
>>
>>100739588
>Literally all he had to do was whisper "stop fucking my wife"
Um, I don't think it would have been that easy for Lancelot to stop. In my opinion, a better way to make the kingdom last longer was just to let Lancelot continue with his little affair. Of course, it looks kind of bad for Arthur to just let it happen, but maybe things wouldn't fall apart so quickly that way.

>>100739828
Yeah, that's exactly right. Lancelot was supposed to be the "perfect" knight, but he just loved Guinevere so much and couldn't help himself. That whole thing led to his and the kingdom's downfall, and IIRC Tristan's as well. Maybe the old French authors were trying to warn us about 3DPD.
>>
>>100740257

No, Lancelot broke his armor by tricking him. the twig incident was unrelated to this.
>>
>>100738741
From the thumbnail it looks like she's possessed by satan
>>
>>100740269

So is he saying he might have been able to forgive Lancelot? As you can't really ask for his help then tell him to fuck off again.
>>
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>>100740257
You know, Gawain really sped up the fall of the kingdom by urgin Arthur to hurry up and attack Lancelot when Arthur didn't really want to do it in the first place.

And then after he's dead the ghost of Gawain tells Arthur to not fight Mordred so immediately, which Arthur promptly ignores.
>>
>>100740318
>In my opinion, a better way to make the kingdom last longer was just to let Lancelot continue with his little affair.

But he was trapped by his own set of laws and views of justice and chivalry. The affair was publicly exposed by Mordred, and so by his own laws he was forced to put them to death, leading to next tragic events.

Gawaine would have been a fun heroic spirit
>>
>>100740318
>Yeah, that's exactly right. Lancelot was supposed to be the "perfect" knight, but he just loved Guinevere so much and couldn't help himself. That whole thing led to his and the kingdom's downfall, and IIRC Tristan's as well. Maybe the old French authors were trying to warn us about 3DPD.

Do you think Lancelot's guilt was a sufficient a punishment as any?

He was probably feeling worse off than Artur was.
>>
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>>100732680
lel Even F/A is better than F/Z, but not superior to the Masterpiece VN of F/SN. When the Ufotable F/SN gets released you F/Zfags will be F/SNfags, then you'll either be F/Afags or complain how it wasn't good compared to F/SN the loop will continue.
F/SN>F/A LN>F/Z LN=F/Z Anime>Shit>More Shit>Eternal Shit>DEEN FSN
>Shirou Kotomine master race
>>
>>100740432

He was able to forgive Lancelot but he was just too suborn to do so and let his hatred overcome his judgment, and this action in the end cost Arthur his life and drove Lancelot into his maddened state.
>>
>>100732930
>FSN VN > FZ LN

Apex kek
>>
>>100740432
Have to remember Gawaine and his brothers - (let's see if I can recall them all) Gareth, Agravaine, and Gaheris were a significant source of instability themselves. They were members of the Round Table, and were Arthur's friends, but really were criminals anyway
>>
>>100740670
Why the hell does Shirou keep turning brown with white hair? Is he allergic to magic or something?
>>
>>100740046
Yeah, Gawain dies trying to kill Lancelot, which he couldn't do even with sunhax
>>
>>100740736

Different person.
>>
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Best adaptation.
>>
>>100740741
oh right, "twice as powerful at noon" or something like that
>>
>>100740688
>He was able to forgive Lancelot but he was just too suborn to do so

But I feel he was in his right to never forgive him, even if Lancelot was truly sorry.

I mean, would things ever be the same again if they had forgiven him, can't see them being back to bros as before, not after that.

Even if it cost his King his life it's not like you can just go 'k, we cool now'.
>>
>>100740736
I Can explain but i'd spoil the shit out of F/A and the 3rd holy grail war so read a wiki article or something.
>>
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>>100740806
no
>>
>>100736994
But Yami to Boushi sucks.
if that's a good adaptation I don't want to read the novel.
>>
>>100740257
If I recall Lancelot had a fighting force coming in from France

>>100740478
If I recall, in Tennyson's Idylls of the King, Arthur did follow that advice and even called for a truce. What happened was that a snake (addler, in the original text) showed up at the meeting, where one of the knights drew his sword to kill it. Sadly, nobody took it nicely and the fighting broke out due to that.

But yeah, Arthur has a bad track record of ignoring important advice.
>>
>>100740688
>drove Lancelot into his maddened state.

Which almost had him attempt to kill Arthur again.

>>100740741

Did Lancelot regret this and did Gawain curse him with his last breath?
>>
>>100740670
>F/Zfags will be F/SNfags
Fucking this. When the F/SN anime airs this Summer along with the Second Season of SAO, /a/ is going to be flooded with Frodos.

>>100740736
>Why the hell does Shirou keep turning brown with white hair?
This is a completely different Shirou named Shirou Amakusa who was the Ruler of the 3rd Holy Grail War.
>>
>>100740219
>My opinion is better than yours.
Where did you learn how to justify an opinion of yours?
>>
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>>100740895
>>
>>100740865

If we are talking about the fate universe, after Arthur died Lancelot left and they (Gawain and Lancelot) never meet again. with Lancelot slowly going insane from his guilt due to whole issue.

>>100740961

Funny how things work out huh?
>>
>>100739134
But Galahad was a good thing

In fact, he was nothing short of a truly perfect knight
>>
Because Iksander. Best spirit. Plus Fate/Zero had a lot of view points compared to Fate/Stay which focused on Saber.
>>
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>>100739992

why is gawain such a piece of shit?
>>
>>100740961
>When Gawain and Lancelot attempt to fight several times, the extremes of their characters are comic. Lancelot consistently wounds Gawain; however, he explains: "'I will no more do than I have done,' said Sir Lancelot, 'for when I see you on foot, I will do battle upon you all the while I see you stand on your feet; but for to smite a wounded man that may not stand, God defend me from such a shame!'" Even though Gawain orders Lancelot to finish the job, Lancelot's courtesy will not allow him to kill a fallen man. As for Gawain, each time Lancelot wounds him, he heals, then returns to fight all over again: "'Wit thou well, Sir Lancelot, when I am whole I shall do battle with thee again, for I shall never leave thee till that one of us be slain.'" Finally, in the end, Gawain dies at the sword of Lancelot.
>>
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>tfw Saber misses times like pic related

why do times have to change...
>>
>>100740908
Yes, Arthur did eventually call for a truce with Moredred so that he could wait for Lancelot's help, who would come in a month's time according to the messenger or something.

But Gawain's warning appears only after the fighting breaks out again.

>>100740961
Yeah, Lancelot regretted it. I'm pretty sure that Gawain writes an apology letter to Lancelot.
>>
>>100741039
Best adaptation
>>
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>>100741084
>Fate/Stay which focused on Saber
You sure about that?
>>
>>100741096

His reasons are justifiable but he just didn't look at the whole picture, he could have dealt with his issues with Lancelot after Arthur had won.
>>
>>100741127

Gawain comes off as a bit of a manchild there.
>>
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>>100741096
He was such a piece of shit Mordred was better than this faggot, and she got womanhandled by Arthuria
>>
>>100741288

Because he is.
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>>100741187
Nope
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>>100741241
dunno, this CG looks pretty focused on Saber to me
>>
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>>100741131
>“Everyone who got to know you would think this way. Irisviel, you’re a very charismatic person.”

In order for the conversation to stop being so heavy, Saber deliberately joked with a light tone.

“For a woman, her body would often have various discomforts. There’s no need for you to be ashamed.”

With that, even Irisviel gave a bitter smile of embarrassment.

“Speaking of that, Saber, you’re also a girl – umm, wouldn’t it be problematic? You have to act as a man during such times.”

“No, about that –”

Seeing that Irisviel’s face has regained its usual smile, Saber relaxed, so she continued with a tone that’s even lighter than usual.

“You wouldn’t know it, but I had the extra protection of my Noble Phantasm when I was alive. Not to mention disease, even aging had stopped for me. Therefore, no discomforts would appear for my body. I’d still be like I am right now even ten years later.”

“…”

F/Z LN act 12 part 2
>>
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>>100741345
KOTOMINE KIREI!!!
>>
>>100741331
winrar

>>100741288
Yeah, Gawaine's "trademark" so to speak is having good intentions but being too hotheaded to truly be the knight Lancelot was.
>>
>>100741145
>Yeah, Lancelot regretted it.

I find it comical how Lancelot blundered into one tragedy after another.

>oh noes I shagged the Kings wife

>oh noes I accidentally killed my friend's brothers

>oh noes I accidentally killed one of my friends

He probably died an empty shell, knowing everything was all his fault.
>>
>>100741241
What's funny about Heaven's Feel is that it focuses on other characters rather than the heroine of the route.
>>
>>100741131

I kind of want an Arturia anime
>>
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>>100741489
Now that you mentioned it, Tousaka's Anus, Nine lives blade works and Kotomine stole the show in HF.
>>
>>100741483
He becomes a monk and dies shortly after burying Guinevere, who became a nun and refused to ever see him again. I think he died because of suicidal fasting
>>
>>100741657
And Guinevere is buried next to the king. So she got her happy ending.

Sort of.
>>
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>>100741581
It really goes to show that Sakura is just a boring old wormslut.
>>
>>100741657

...I hope she was worth all this trouble.

Once again, a Woman brings another Kingdom to ruin.
>>
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>>100741821
>>
>born to the strongest knight in the entire world
>saves everyone in the Round Table as they search for the Grail
>so pure that he alone is allowed to find and touch the grail
>is granted the ability to chose how and when he will die

Galahad confirmed for best knight
>>
Who do you guys think is the biggest asshole in the Fate Franchisee?
>>
>>100741927

I reckon he's being intentionally withheld from Fate for this very reason.
>>
>>100741879
>Once again, a woman brings another Kingdom to ruin.
But that's surprisingly accurate! If Morgan le Fay weren't so jealous of Arthur, then he would've never gotten his scabbard stolen. If Igraine would've just admitted that Arthur is her son, then all the other kings wouldn't have doubted Arthur's birthright and tried to attack him.

And I'm sure you all know about Guinevere.
>>
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>>100741942
Its clearly not Gil, Tokiyomi or Kirei possibly.
>mfw Kirei was weaker than Ciel
>>
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>>100741942
For me it would be Kotomine, because of what he did to Kariya in Fate Zero.

He's still one of my favorite characters ever though.
>>
>>100742003
Hey don't forget Mordred for starting the rebellion
>>
>>100742003
And Elaine fucks Lancelot, which leads to his madness when Guinevere finds out and loses her shit
>>
>>100742003

I hear this shit all the time, there was a woman in Dynasty Warriors, who became a concubine to an otherwise 'business as usual' Ruler, where she brought forth pure unbridled terror to the place and was eventually blamed for bringing all the shit on to the empire with her atrocities.
>>
>>100742064
Ciel is Krillin tier so of course
>>
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>>100742186
sup
>>
>>100742003

So the point of the Arthurian tale is that Women aren't to be trusted?

>>100742199

Ciel is more suited to be a mage than a executioneer
>>
>>100742064
>mfw Kirei was weaker than Ciel

Kirei worked for his power, Ciel was given absolutely all of it.

Doesn't change a thing though I suppose. I would rather have everything and not work for it too.
>>
>>100742064

Ciel is more of a genius than Rin is.
>>
>>100742257

Why were you such a Monster, Lady?
>>
>>100741942
Tokiomi. Literally the only character that is an ass hole by choice. He is completely irredeemable.
>>
>>100742294
Ciel had plenty of karmic retribution for her power, though
>>
>>100742264
It's medieval 3DPD literature.

But seriously, there's not really a "point" to Arthurian literature since it's by a million different people who all add different aspects to the story, and that's why Arthurian literature contradicts itself so frequently.
>>
>>100742347
They are both "born" geniuses rather than working for it.
>>
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>>100742357
Because she's Dakki-chan and she'll grind up your son into hamburger and force you to eat him for kicks
>>
>>100742264
>So the point of the Arthurian tale is that Women aren't to be trusted?

As much as I abhor the fact, I also find it pretty remarkable that a single Woman can do what entire armies of men can not in completely dismantling a Kingdom down to it's last ebb.

When you think about it, they are far more powerful than Men will ever be.
>>
>>100742446

IIRC, Ciel is 100 and Rin is 70-100, Shirou was 10 and sometimes 30 depending on the situation. or something like that,
>>
>>100742380

She did? All I remember is the atrocities Roa made her commit (Was Roa considered a Girl when he was using Ciel?) both took her life from her and also made her feel guilty.

Other than that, in the here and now so to speak, she's fine.
>>
>>100742487

Is it considered bad form to want to fuck a Woman who's basically Satan incarnate?

Should I be ashamed of myself?
>>
>>100742700

Temptation is something Satan does IIRC?
>>
does anyone have the fate/zero facebook pictures?
>>
>>100742785

But I feel I should be putting my morals in front of my dick, I have been slagging off Lancelot in this thread after all.

Except before she cheated on Arthur, Guinevere wasn't the female Hitler, so this is probably worse.
>>
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>>100742860
Oh oh! I have some!
>>
>>100742534
Shirou is a freak though.
>>
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>>100742898
Whatever floats your boat
>>
>>100743030

Yes but he isn't suited to be a mage so it doesn't matter
>>
>>100743056
>Whatever floats your boat

Are you Gilgamesh?
>>
>>100743075
But that's what makes him so freakish. Someone so unsuitable is capable of something usually only Dead Apostles and such are capable of.
>>
>>100743035

The friends list made me laugh pretty damn hard!
>>
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>>100733354
>>
>>100742064
Who the hell is Ciel, and how is she stronger than motherfucking Kotomine?
>>
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>>100743035
Aw man now I'm back to the blobby captchas.
>>
>>100743402
>Hasn't played Tsukihime
>Posting a fate thread
>>
>>100743402
>Who the hell is Ciel, and how is she stronger than motherfucking Kotomine?
Is this bait?
>>
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>>100743441
>>
>>100743402
Kotomine a scrub.
>>
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>>100743441
>>
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>>100743402
Something Kotomine never had, a Man(Shiki), Guns(Familiar) and being part of superior master race of Burial Agency
>>
>>100732680
Because Fate/Zero got a good anime while FSN got shit, so now people judge FSN by a shit adaption of the worst route and think "Man, the prequel blows that shitty sequel out of the water. Urobuchi really takes Nasu's shit and turns it into gold".

Then people tell them to go play the game and realize that the shit adaption really is shit, but of course playing the game they'll still have to go through the first route again and it's still the worst. So they'll only be more assured in that superiority since Fate route just can't deliver. Meanwhile the other two routes blow Fate route out of the water and bring forth the real meat there, but by then the opinions are kind of set.
>>
>>100732841
>Sola Ui
>Not the biggest slut
>>
>>100743670

Did they ever meet?
>>
>>100743815

Which is why you play the VN/LN before you watch any of the adaptions. isn't that the standard protocol?
>>
>>100743889
If they did Ciel would murder his ass as a heretic of the church
>>
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>>100743550
So it's either let google track you or get extremely hard captchas?

I understand why moot's selling his passes now.
>>
>>100733543
>Heracles was powerful.
>He wasn't bad ass. There's a difference.

>Hercules after his fight with Archer only lamented not being able to fight such a man while sane
>He withstood Gate of Babylon in order to protect Ilya who was behind him, and broke the unbreakable chain out of anger after Gilgamesh cut Ilya's eyes out. This is a reference to his myth in regards to Prometheus.
>Blocked Caldobolg after realizing the danger it presented while protecting Ilya
>Broke the command seal put on him to never speak in HF, he simply said "Run" when the Shadow approached the castle since he knew he could not win
>Chose to have his spiritual core die on Earth rather than returning to the grail so Ilya would not be alone in her final moments of HF
>Even after he had his skin ripped off and going blind he was still just trying to fight Saber Alter as best he could while already losing all sense in the world.
>The guy did see Ilya like a daughter, and it's stated if he could talk he'd be rather like Alexander in Zero.

The guy was far more than "RRAAAAAAAAAAR", but Ilya used a command spell so that he could never speak properly as shown in the flashback of UBW out of anger when she was thrown out into the forest to die.
>>
>>100743999

He keeps his dark side a secret though.

What I want to know is, does she use an honorific to refer up to him based on his higher age or lower based on her superior rank?
>>
>>100742534
Shirou is a 10 - 40 in terms of being a magus, he'll never be more than a rank amateur

However it's stated he could be a top class Magic User, which is supposedly very different so they can't be compared on the same scale.

That's not a ranking of battle power either, but Thaumaturgy power.
>>
>>100743670
Ciel's new design looks so great. I don't give an infinite amount of fucks of what the Arcfags say about the Tsukihime remake, I would fuck Ciel.

>>100743815
>"Man, the prequel blows that shitty sequel out of the water. Urobuchi really takes Nasu's shit and turns it into gold".
I agree with you. Gen Urobuchi is beyond overrated and because he fucking wrote Madoka people that like Fate/Zero to Fate/Stay Night agree that his writing is above everyone else's.
>>
>>100743999
Nah, the Church is full of "Heretics", and she herself is something of a heretic. They don't care as much as long as you work for them.

Like that guy who can turn all of his limbs into demons who works for the Church. If they're unable to kill you then they'll most likely give you a job, as long as you aren't that big of a threat.
>>
>>100744562
Yeah, F/Z's well-written style is due to a team effort of Urobutcher and Nasu, and not just to one or the other.
>>
>>100744562
>I agree with you. Gen Urobuchi is beyond overrated and because he fucking wrote Madoka people that like Fate/Zero to Fate/Stay Night agree that his writing is above everyone else's.

The reason this statement is a joke though is because Urobuchi himself says Nasu already had most of Zero mapped out or written before he came on board, and Nasu helped Co-Write when they actually got into it as well. Nasu did maybe 75% of the work there including creating all the characters and nixing any ideas he didn't care for like Urobuchi wanting to make one of the Assassins a loli who lived with Waver.

Nasu has gotten better and that reflects with Zero and his other recent works, but people see that as more Urobuchi being plain better. Sure it was still a team effort, but even Urobuchi talks about how he was only a part of the process and a lot of it was there from the start.
>>
>>100744562
>Ciel's new design looks so great.

I like it, but it doesn't scream 'strength' or 'confidence' that the original Ciel did, case in point, my favourite CG of her balanced on a Lampost looking serious.
>>
>>100744631

Merem Solomon, himself a vampire.
He could probably be exterminated, but since he hates all other vampires (except Arc), he's allowed to stay.
There's room for freedom when the organization is lead by a psychopath with a fetish for vampire slaughter.
>>
>>100744815
Give it a chance, they'll make a new version of that CG for the remake.
>>
>>100744815
Oh boy am I gonna look forward to that gem.
>>
>>100744815
Ciel's look should be a mixture of "cute" and "formidable".
>>
>>100744631
I Suppose so however didn't Caren in F/HA got sent to Fuyuki to exterminate Kirei as a Heratic?
>>
>>100744889
>>100744894

Maybe she's going to have a new personality full stop?

She'll be cuter (She's pretty cute in her Student disguise as is though, even if she's fucking lying to you) but not as tough.
>>
>>100744972
I thought she was there to replace him, but I suppose he'd be branded after his recent failure with many dying in the Heaven's Feel.

It's not like he hasn't been on missions in the last ten years, so it's not like they didn't know for some time now.
>>
She better still wear dem Boots.
>>
>>100744972
>>100745108

>She was sent to Fuyuki by the Church to replace Kirei after his death and report the aftermath of the Fifth Holy Grail War.
>>
>>100745078
As long as i get my Onee-sama Ciel I am happy, however making her a new personality...Nasu would never do that...Would he?
>>100745182
Ah thanks, looking forward to the F/HA Translation so i haven't read it yet.
>>
>>100744815
>I like it, but it doesn't scream 'strength' or 'confidence' that the original Ciel did
She is in her school attire in the trailer. It's a perfect facade for her, because she comes off as more feminine rather than as a killing machine.
>>
>>100732680
But it's not.
>>
>>100745298
What if Takeuchi just can't not draw sameface anymore?
>>
>>100743815
Question: Which route does the FSN anime follow?
>>
>>100745256
>As long as i get my Onee-sama Ciel I am happy, however making her a new personality...Nasu would never do that...Would he?

Well we're definitely losing her sex scene aren't we? I'm going to miss that one as it's the most pure.

Something about Shiki taking her up the ass from behind, while lying on her, fingers interlocked while her cheeks burn bright pink in embarrassment and a simultaneous look of 'enduring the pain out of love'.

Man, I love Ciel. It breaks my heart that she was only lying to Shiki for most of her route.
>>
>>100745476
The first route

That's how all VN adaptions tend to work, because the first route is always the main heroine route.
>>
>>100745490
I know, Ciel was one of my favorite routes in Tsukihime as well. However Akiha's was a favorite of mine. Nasu give me my Satsuki route already ;_;
>>
>>100745464
>What if Takeuchi just can't not draw sameface anymore?
But isn't that the heart of Type-Moon's art besides Koyama's art? Besides Takeuchi keeps Nasu motivated in writing.
>>
>>100745608

What the FUCK was that subplot with Caster and Rin all about though? That was the very worst of the anime imo.
>>
>>100745722
They tried fusing in elements from other routes, but they couldn't go all the way and had to censor it, so the result was bullshit.
>>
>>100745704
Koyama's art obviously takes after Takeuchi. But yeah, his art is very iconic.
>>
>>100743889
>Q: Are Kotomine, Caren, and Ciel, who are all affiliated with the Church, personally acquainted with each other?

>A: Currently, they are not. It’s possible that Ciel and Caren could meet, though.
>>
>>100745608
I deleted my post because I realized the question was answered in the post, but thanks for answering anyways. That's unfortunate, I just finished the Saber Route earlier today, and... well, I don't want to say it was bad. But I didn't really like Saber very much, so I found it hard to get emotionally attached to everything.
>>
Ciel is my favourite character to play/watch in Melty Blood too, although Akiha is pretty cool too.
>>
>>100745722
They wanted to try adding in pieces from other routes, such as Unlimited Blade Works, Assassin getting a chance to fight, or Rin vs Sakura. However the way it was handled was a flop because they they couldn't just try combining shit like that, they only went half on a bet that only needed a light touch after all

Read the Tsukihime manga for a good example of how someone should actually mesh multiple routes together. In the sense that you adapt shit straight, but you can add extra scenes to it as long as don't mess up pre-existing scenes, and make sure the references to other routes still flow and work with the story. In tsukihime manga they don't try to fuse routes, rather the just show nods to other routes as the story goes along in ways that show the author has either competency or love for the series.
>>
>>100746072
>But I didn't really like Saber very much, so I found it hard to get emotionally attached to everything.
Understandable. The reason that I really enjoyed Fate was because I really really like Saber. So whichever character you like the best, obviously you would like their route the best.
>>
>>100746396

Saber so Kawaii

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA9tZXR9mWA
>>
>>100746396
That makes sense. My favorite is Rin by far, and the added bonus of knowing that Archer will play a bigger part was well is making me really excited to go through it. Dammit, I may have to go do that now.
>>
>>100737844
so how's Realta Nua
>>
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>>100746072
Nasu works always tend to work the same way

First route is the introduction as a few things are revealed and it's remembered somewhat fondly but that's never where the real meat is to be found, next part of the game starts turning things around on you as you start to learn the real truth here and it all gets far more insane, then comes the final route where the full truth is finally known and shit is balls to the wall as Shiki and Akiha end up dueling to the death as he's walking on walls(or replace that last bit with Shirou and Kotomine who are both at deaths door mere minutes away from dying each who end up fighting to death with their fists in front of the Embryo which will soon give birth to the devil itself as they give their all to let the beast live or to finish it off for good. There is no outcome for either of them anymore, both will die within minutes no matter who comes out victorious, but their ideals on on the line as this is everything they have ever believed in right here.).

First route - Introduction

Second route - Understanding and Growth

Third route - Climax
>>
I am too lazy to look up OP's trip but are you Jake the Zoo or just some faggot going by Jake the Snake?

The quality of your posts are significantly lower than they used to be if you're the same Jake.
>>
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>>100746553
Archer pretty much hijacks Rin's route, he's the real focus there in the end. Turns out if Saber doesn't wound him on the first day with a surprise attack then all kinds of shit goes crazy.
>>
What is the most pure sex scene in all of Type Moon?
>>
>>100746509
That makes it sound like Saber is basically Index from To Aru no Majutsu
>>
>>100747220
>To Aru no Majutsu
>>
>>100739634
That's why we have F/HA

99.5%
>>
>>100747155
That's awesome, Archer is god damn awesome. When he stayed behind to fight by himself and killed Berserker 6 different times in 6 different ways, I swear I nearly lost it.

However, now I'm going to ignore your image and close this thread before I get spoiled too much. I suspect I'll be back in Fate threads when I finish the next 2 routes.
>>
>>100747497
Nigger you're gonna enjoy UBW so damn much. Enjoy yourself
>>
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>>100747174
Right here

http://youtu.be/qi-wLivfePY?t=4m52s
>>
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>>100747174
"do you want some?"
>>
>>100747155
All of the servants get way more love during UBW, while HF focuses on villains from the first two routes.

Shit is fucking great.
>>
>>100747667

Hollow Ataraxia will see a translation before CCC. ;_;
>>
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>>100747856
HF focuses more on the human characters more than anything. Half the servants are killed in the first few days, but the humans are far more important this time as well, and each of them has a huge connection to the past going on that really comes into play here. That's why people tend to say it follows from Zero the best, since all the human side characters have a large connection to the previous war going on and they're all carrying someones will at that point. Tohsaka has to decide whether she wants to follow in her fathers will or accept her family but be a failure of a magus, Sakura still harbours the sins of the past which haunt her even now but Kariya's wish might just come true, Kotomine still searches for an answer to his existence and it seems after all this time his prayers might just be answered, Shirou is trying to stick close to Kiritsugu's ideals but what happens when a choice comes along that will shatter him to his core, and Ilya wishes to reconnect with the small family she still has after realizing the one whom she came to see she'll never see in this world again.

At the end it's just the convergence off all those different ideals and values from the human side characters as they each carry something from the past even now. Shirou will break it while Kotomine protects it, Sakura and Rin face off, and Ilya chooses her own Fate at the end.

People don't like that servants generally feel jilted here, but there is meaning in what happened as well.
>>
>>100747856
>HF focuses on villains from first two routes
Huh what did you read? If i'm not mistaken they didn't do that, they brought Zouken and Shadow Sakura as New villains and all of the servants in HF Died pretty goddamn fast besides for archer and True Assassin really Rider being the exception for being the only one alive.
>>100748094
It isn't even announced for localization ;_:
>>
>>100748198
>Half the servants are killed in the first few days,

It was pretty shocking when Saber blitzes Rideri n the park.
>>
>>1007482134
>>100748198

Ilya and Kotomine were more or less the two major villains from the first two routes.

Maybe villain is the wrong word, antagonists and side characters is probably more accurate.

Except for Zouken that guy was straight up evil, I mean having your soul rotting probably does that to a guy but still.
>>
>>100748336
>Except for Zouken that guy was straight up evil, I mean having your soul rotting probably does that to a guy but still.

I like the scene in Fate/Zero when even fucking Kirei thinks Zouken is too much.
>>
Hey guys, I'm watching F S/N adaptation right now before F/Z or any VN and it's awesome.
>>
>>100748837
0/10.
>>
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>>100748837
Quit and download the VN now
>>
>>100734242
She was a pretty big cunt man
Stop thinking with your dick
>>
>>100732680
Different writers and all the masters are adults that feel more like a war.
>>
>>100749009
Wow 70 hours. It's like several month of playthrough.
>>
>>100750940
Took me maybe 2 weeks, but I got pretty into it. Worth it.
>>
DEEN, OP.

It was DEEN.

ufotable will fix everything.
>>
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>this thread
>some people actually haven't read the VN
>motherfucking 2014
>>
>>100750940
>>100751156
Took me three weeks, but two of those were with me working 40 hours a week.
>>
Why are there so many king athur fans on /a/? What book did you niggas read? Le morte? Once and future king?
>>100747497
this guy is pretty much me when I first read fate.
>>
>>100737594
All this edge.
>>
They were both good as stories. I feel the Servant roster was perfect for each war.

I am one of the few who has Cu as favorite Servant, but think Diarmuid was the perfect Lancer for the fourth war. It brought a playful side of Saber with an enemy Servant she didn't have before.
>>
>>100735188
>This is true. Herakles blew Alexander's charge out of the water:

No, he didn't. Gil never used Ea against him. That's why Nasu only sees Iskandar as Gil's rival.
>>
>>100738211

They didn't, Saber in UC arrives to the same conclusion without dating Shirou, only becoming his friend and mentor. Nasu and Gen didn't even see their interaction as romantic or physical attraction. It can be rewritten.

They did in case of Sakura. She's the only heroine whose romantic feelings are indeed a plot point. The way to access her route is to court her.
>>
>>100754174
Ataraxia is kind of key for really getting Cu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pFwBq0DDes
>>
>>100740723
I've never read anything about Gaheris, but at least for Gareth, I read that he was kind and gentlemanly, and after returning from a quest, beat the shit out of Sir Kay for striking a woman in his presence. I believe Agravaine was an ally of Mordred's though. IIRC, in the version I read, Gaheris and Gareth refused to fight Lancelot, and so dressed like monks rather than in armor at Guinevere's execution, so when Lancelot charged in to rescue Guinevere, they were accidentally wounded and died.
>>
>>100748436
Even in F/SN Kotomine forgets his place when Zouken is around and goes full inquisitor on his ass. It's an interesting duality to his character that as much as he loves fucking with people, he still takes his job as a priest seriously by not abiding people like Zouken and continuing to help people in need. Kind of like an evil Batman.
>>
>>100754354
I should have rephrased what I said. While it is true that Shirou falling in love with Saber didn't change the main story, it did however make up most of the story for the Fate route. So in a way the true plot for the Fate route is the relationship between Shirou and Saber. Other than that there isn't that much happening in that route.
>>
>>100754174
I never liked Diarmuid. He just felt like a combination of Lancer, Archer and Assassin.
>>
Man, if Ufotable DOES do HF, imagine this scene.

My god, this should be good.
>>
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yfw it's saber's route again
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>>100754354
F/UC also has Rin solo the war and turn Archer into a mascot character.
>>
>>100752022
Personally, it's from stories that I read as a kid abridged by Penguin, then later, I read the Le Morte and Once and Future King and whatnot.
>>
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>>100754884
I'd be happy. I loved Fate because Saber's my favourite heroine.
>>
Toaru/Fate crossover when?

I want Touma in Carnival Phantasm and Shirou in the Index-Tans.

Or a book where Kamachi and Nasu just make the most hax shit possible.
>>
>>100748213
Marvelous AQL is out of business. Europe isn't getting Rune Factory 4; I don't think the English speaking world is ever going to get CCC.
>>
>>100748436
when does that happen?
>>
>>100754884
yfw It's all three
>>
http://exhentai.org/g/664812/7ed82f60e8/
>>
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This thread
>>
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>>100755431
>>
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didn't read thread, came in here to remind you guys that F/UC is much better than Extra
>>
>>100755536
Fatal/Fake Crucis > juggle-o-matic/Unlimited Codes
>>
>>100754630
Yeah Gareth was for sure the nicest of the bunch, and was one of Arthur's closest friends as well
>>
>>100755430
>moonrunes
>cartoony
why
>>
>>100754630
Gareth is the chillest knight, he's tasked with escorting this lady and she keeps getting him into fights with other knights and constantly calls him kitchen knave and he doesn't complain once, also some lord offerd him his 8 year old daughter and he refused. The guy reminds me of sword leaf guy from katanagatri
>>
>>100752022
Once and Future King and Le Morte
>>
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>>100755536
Except no it isn't. It's a fighting game where the combat is still rather iffy, meanwhile Extra even if you don't like the combat still has great characters and an interesting cast to mess around with.
>>
>>100755760
Is that a real line? If it is, Aksys really is the best English publisher.
>>
>>100755877
Yeah it's a real line
>>
>>100755877

It's the real line, and yes their translations are really good.
>>
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>>100755877
Yes, another reason why we want them to TL CCC
>>
>>100756046
Why wait

Keep bothering them on Twitter or wherever
>>
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>Fate
>Shirou drags Saber along on a date she doesn't want to go on, has no idea what to do, is clumsy as fuck about it

>UBW
>Rin drags Shirou AND Saber along on a date Shirou doesn't want to go on, has it all perfectly planned and executes it with masterful precision

Why is Rin such a better main character than Shirou?
>>
>>100738598
HF>UBW>F/Z>Fate
HF and UBW can be switched on personal taste but the rest is fact.
>>
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>>100756141
Shirou doesn't know how to be human or have fun(literally, he says his joy died in the fire), but that's just part of him. Rin however is a semi-normal person so she knows how dates work.
>>
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>>100755760
it has one good character, your servant (Saber Red in my case)
>gameplay is rock paper scissors
>combat is flat
>same repetitive voice overs
>shitty same backgrounds
>terribly generic cliche plot
>you know who the servants are at first glance, no mystery
>same backgrounds over and over
>same hub over and over
>"digital" mode, also known as NOT CANON
no. unlimited codes plays really well and has fun mini games.
>>
>>100756140
People are consistently asking for it, the only reply we got was along the lines of "we know you guys want us to TL CCC" or something like that
>>
>>100756021
The Rani scene is better.
>>
>>100756285
>>
>>100756141
Shirou is a crappy strategist even if he is a decent tactician. Rin is a great strategist.

Saber is a crap strategist and tactician, since she always bullheadedly pushed through with her instincts.
>>
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>>100756351
>tfw we couldn't have a threesome
>tfw no oreo cookie with femc in the middle
;_;
>>
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>want to play CCC, but I haven't finished learning how to moonrunes

Existence is a state of unending suffering.
>>
>>100756285
>>you know who the servants are at first glance, no mystery

No you don't

>it has one good character, your servant (Saber Red in my case)

Every character gets a little room to shine, people loved the other servants as well.

>"digital" mode, also known as NOT CANON

Nasu wrote an entire Data book on how it is canon, but as a different time-line from the usual Fate stuff since infinite time-lines. He gives all kinds of little details like "The reason the world changed was due to OVERCOUNT 1999, this is different in Extra time-line, this is the same, Mooncell only exists here, but the boundry can be crossed". It's not that it didn't happen, but it's about as much alt world from Fate as Tsuhikihime. Alternate world-line is still canon as he goes on and on about how that shit works, but it's canon for it's own time-line primarily.
>>
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>>100756493
Having Gilgamesh as a servant is pretty awesome i might want to point out

>>100756285
>"digital" mode, also known as NOT CANON

Everything is canon, you must be new here
>>
>>100756285
If you want to complain about Extra, complain about Arco Wada's art.
>>
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>>100756659
I bet it is.

Also, we need more hair-down red saber. Best look for her, fuck the bun.
>>
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>>100756659
Best parts of CCC are BB and Gilgamesh. no contest
>>
>>100756700
I'd rather complain about my lack of JUSTICE SCARF ARCHER outfit.

Not even a fucking butler outfit? Fucking injustices never end.
>>
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>>100756700
I don't think it looks that bad. Just a bit awkward and elongated in places, and precariously thin in others.
>>
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>>100756578
>>>you know who the servants are at first glance, no mystery
>No you don't
cmon yes you do.
>guy in red cape shows up, white hair and moustache (derp dracula)
>little girl (derp alice)
>green guy (derp robin hood)
cmon
>Every character gets a little room to shine, people loved the other servants as well.
you mean to tell me that people like.... Alice? they like... Gawain? -cringe-
>>
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>MFW the FSN remake comes out, we're gonna have to deal with the annoying comic relief tiger teacher and the stupid SOL moments
>>
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>>100756875
>>
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>>100756875
>>
>>100756889
wish they'd do Tsukihime instead
ugh
>>
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Since there's an Extra discussion going on, I figured this is the place to ask:

Why didn't Archer just use UBW to nullify Gawain's Numeral of the Saint? I mean, Shirou's ubw is clearly at dawn, before Gawain's boost period so shouldn't Archer's UBW be the same?

Or is there even a sun in the first place there?

Rin/Rani hacked the mooncell RM to change the sun, so wouldn't UBW do the same?
>>
>>100757154

They can't just break a boss fight.
>>
>>100757154
You have to write the scenario to fit all three servants after all. It might work if it was a manga featuring Archer as the main servant, but for a story where they have to write it basically the same for all three aside from dialogue it needs to work for all three characters.

Would it work? Not sure, I mean saying if it changes all external factors or saying UBW takes place during the dawn is a bit of a question. It's like asking if Archer can use UBW to cut off Arc's connection to the Earth.
>>
>>100754238

Herakles wasn't at his full power.
Gil wouldn't have used Ea if Alexander was beneath his full power.

Being insane makes Herc far weaker than he should be. The greatest son of Zeus would give Gil a serious run for his money if he had his wits and deadliest skill.
>>
>>100756889
Knowing UFOtable, they'll cut 99% of the cooking out.

People will bitch, but it is a good thing.
>>
>>100757408
>Gil wouldn't have used Ea if Alexander was beneath his full power.

He was rather nerfed by Waver being a mediocre magus and only had recovered enough mana to use his NP once more, but was still running low there. Still someone could make the argument that the command spells give him a bit of a boost I guess.
>>
>>100757532
>>100757408
For fuck's sake, were you not paying attention or did you not read the LN?

Gil used Ea on Alexander because although he rejected his offer at friendship, Gil respected him by the end of it all. Bringing out the greatest of his treasures and using his greatest weapon against Rider was an honor.
>>
>>100757408
>>100757532

Gilgamesh never "needed" to use EA, he used it as a sign of respect for Alexander. Alexander could have never beaten Gilgamesh anyway
>>
>>100757408
I thought it was more that Gil respected Rider enough to use all that he could against him.
>>
>>100757787
>respect
>blowing the fuck outta you
Gilgamesh should respect everyone more
>>
>>100758064
I know, I mean who knows what someone might do if Gil didn't show respect.
>>
>>100758064

He should treat other servants as trash more often and just kill them outright with Enkidu+GOB
>>
>>100757787
>>100757762

Honestly I wish we had more of this. Gil's scenes with Rider (and the one with Waver) were some of the best scenes he is in (excluding CCC).

Kinda wish Heracles wasn't a Berserker just to see what interactions the two could have had.
>>
>>100758324

His interactions with Herc would have been like his interactions with Karna most probably.
>>
>>100758064
>>100758191
You don't hunt rabbits with a canon

And you don't go all out on someone unless they've proven to be a respectable or capable adversary.
>>
>>100758412

Yes but you still exterminate them if they are pests.
>>
Do I need to read the F/SN VN before watching F/Z?
I understand that that the latter is a prequel to the former. But I don't feel like spending months going through the VN.
>>
>>100758608

You don't, but don't come here and talk about F/Z without reading the prequel.
>>
>>100758698
Fair enough.
>>
>>100758412
Reminds me of this


>“I speak of genesis.
>The elements intermix, coalesce,
>and bring forth the stars that forge all of creation.

>Know now the apex of the Truth.
>I shall show you that which I acknowledge as truly golden.
>The hidden prototype.

>Now―――
>sing its praises in your death throes, foul noise......!”

“That power―――
Power of the same order as mine.
―――What baseness.”

>“Indeed.
>Not even on the verge of death
>would the king show his primordial form.

>“However, this is a sovereign rite that my mongrel
>had put his life on the line to perform.
>Who but I will answer his offering?”

>“If the malice enveloping this place
>is that of all the world, that is most convenient.
>Heed this, all those that be.

>“This man is my contractee.
>Know that you will never lay a finger on
>Kishinami Hakuno without my permission!”
>>
>>100732680
Because theres no shirou in it.
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>>100758608
>>100758698
I'd honestly recommend reading the VN first. I really can't stress this enough, but F/Z plays heavily off of FSN and will spoil various parts of it for you if you go read it afterwards.
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>>100758874
But Shirou is the best part of Fate, anon.
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>>100759036
Explain then.
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>>100758874
But Shirou plays a major role in the finale, I mean the timer is all about Shirou and all.
>>
I think this is the only type moon thread right now, so I'll ask here.

I haven't read F/SN in a while, but I was looking for a fight scene that had some decent strategic elements to it. I'm talking use of terrain, and planning.

Any thoughts as to scenes that fit that description?
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>>100759162
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>>100759190
Kotomine vs True Assassin

Kotomine literally only had one way to win, and was able to accomplish it because he watched the fight against Lancer before

or Lancer vs Archer
>>
>>100759190
Most of Rider's fights are kinda like that. From using the skyscraper to fighting Alter underground.

Rin had a pretty decent showing against Caster, too.
>>
>>100759381
Even then he stood no chance against True Assassin at the best outcome; he could only pin him down for two seconds at most. That was all he needed to accomplish though. If Assassin had tried any other method of fighting, tried getting in close, then it just would have been over. Kotomine knew Assassin was a coward and took advantage of it even if he far outranked him.
>>
>>100759381
Those were more about tactics, since they didn't prepare any strategies beforehand. Not even Archer, since he was expecting Shirou.
>>
>>100759381
>>100759426
Will give those a re-read. I'm mostly just trying to get a feel for how Nasu writes strategy-related stuff.
>>
>>100759190
Archer had no chance against Lancer when they fought straight out since Lancer was unbound for the first time. However as Archer had seen Cu fight previously he knew his style, and could adjust accordingly. He left himself open for 90% of the fight and just focused on blocking the spots that were left open since Cu's attacks were too fast to be seen. Be creating a forced opening he could know exactly where the attack would come from. Next he made sure to goad and insult Cu into attacking with his strongest attack, because if he could manage to block that then he'd have a momentary chance to surrender when Cu was confused. It was entirely a battle where he could have died at any point, but as an underdog he used his inferiority as a weapon.
>>
>>100759190
FHA, but still pretty good.

Shirou and Saber vs. Archer on the bridge.
>>
>>100737844
No, because it actually fit.

The idea of changing the soul which can be seen as the true nature of the psyche with rape was very well done. Not to mention the thousands of years of real history in which sex was used for magical rituals.
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>>100759642
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsrfyjfL_jM

One of my favorite fights for sure.
>>
>>100734942

Because I'm sure Enkidu will work against someone with no divinity. Gil fanboys logic.
>>
>>100759739
Although the actual sex scenes were very poorly written. But yes, I totally agree with you about their role in the story being good. I wish Realta Nua would have kept them the same, but just faded to black and left it to your imagination. Then it would have been the better version. Instead we got weird retcons that made little sense.
>>
>>100759739
It's either sex or vagina dragons in the end

There are no other choices
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>>100759793

But Alexander has Divinity. It is just a normal chain to anybody without Divinity
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>>100759824
Yeah, the writing for those scenes was...uh...curious
>>
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>>100759824
The sex scenes are well written, the translation is shit.

>>100759739
Yeah, this.
>>
>>100759793
Alexander has C rank divinity, Cu has A rank divinity
>>
>>100759903
I'm talking about Lancelot. The guy has no divinity. He would fuck Gil shit any day.
>>
>>100759908
It's said every thread at this point, but the main reason is because of the translation
>>
>>100759987

In melee combat? of course. Generally? No
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>>100737742
>The narrator said it; so it must be 100% true

There's a little trick that happens in every Nasu work ever; the narrator says something is an undeniable fact only to seconds later say "But what's this, Saber is not a hero bound by such logic as she dodges the undodgable attack that was not possible to be dodged by any means". What the narrator says isn't a cold fact until it actually happens; because usually the "facts" are switched around moments later in order to create that surprise

Here's a prime enough example
>>
>>100760039
If Cu managed to fight for 12 hours what makes you think Lancelot can't do even better with much higher stats, a sword that can block anything and no divinity so Enkidu can't do shit? Reminder Kariya was a shitty master so Lancelot stats took a hit.
>>
>>100760193
Lancer's abilities literally make him geared for survival above all else

Protection against all projectiles

The ability to not die until you take an absolutely fatal hit

Ability to restart the battle from step one at any point

And Runes
>>
>>100760193
Cu has Protection from Arrows and Battle Continuation.

Projectiles CAN'T hit him and exhaustion doesn't matter until he disperses from all his prana running out.
>>
>>100760052
But until that switch happens, it holds true.

You have nothing to prove he can survive.
>>
>>100760052

Are you seriously trying to continue a conversation that was finished over 7 hours ago?

>>100760193

Cu has defense skill against ranged weaponry (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Protection_from_Arrows) and specializes in defensive combat and has battle continuation (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_Continuation#Battle_Continuation), what does Gilgamesh fight with? Ranged weaponry.

Lancelot has no answer to GOB 32+ and EA.
>>
>>100760052

Except until that Switch happens the Word of God is correct. and considering it didn't happen the Word of God holds true
>>
>>100760374
Not at all, until it actually happens nothing is certain, and we know this because the bait and switch is a key part of his writing. Something is only certain if it has happened, but something that hasn't happened and can never happen can never be certain.
>>
>>100760193
Lancelot could only counter GoB up to 30 shots and a non-serious Gil was more than willing to open it further to kill him on the first night, Ea wasn't needed. He was never a threat and even if he was deemed so, the king would acknowledge it and act accordingly.

No form of Lancelot can take someone on Gil's level.
>>
>>100760489
>>100760374
>>100760526
Basically this. Put it this way. That kind of switch would only happen for one reason. If it would benefit the story.

The only time it would benefit the story would be if you were playing as Lancelot in the story mode of a fighting game and had to fight Gil. That's about it. I can't think of any other reason Lancelot would ever need to defeat Gilgamesh.

So because he doesn't need to, he can't.
>>
>>100760426
read
>>100760052
>>
>>100760614
Read
>>100760609
>>
>>100760374
>>100760489
I could also argue that you have nothing to prove he CAN'T survive.
>>
Lancelot can't beat Gilgamesh.

>Fate/side material - Encyclopedia: Gilgamesh [Servant], p.059
>Gilgamesh can be called the 'Servant Destroyer', as Heroic Spirits are no match for this man. Undoubtedly, the strongest Servant.

Deal with it, nerds.
>>
>>100760692
Lancelot can just throw a nucler bomb at him. Deal with it nerd.
>>
>>100760692
No match for him doesn't mean they can't beat him.

Shirou was no match for him but beat him. Saber was no match for him but beat him.
>>
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But it isn't.
It didn't have enough best girl.
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>>100760692
It seems only Seiba+Avalon would win against Gil in the 4th War.

I doubt any of the other servants might even pose a threat to him.
>>
>>100760692
>Saber, not a heroic spirit(yet)
>Archer, counter guardian=not a heroic spirit
>Sakura, not a heroic spirit
Holds 100% true.
>>
>>100760771

It's more Avalon counter everything than anything else
>>
>>100760755
Gilgamesh has anti-nuclear bomb shields.

>>100760765
Shirou and Saber aren't heroic spirits. Also, Archer is listed as Gilgamesh's natural enemy.
>>
>>100760768
I still want a sidestory about how kerry met her.
>>
>>100760865
Citation needed.
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>>100760894
Not him but here is the citation for the natural enemy part:

Natural enemy:
None (Zero)[2]:
Fate/Zero material - Gilgamesh entry, p.042
Archer (stay night)[1]:
Fate/complete material II: Character material - Characters - Gilgamesh entry, p.074-079
>>
>>100760894
For what?

Gil has everything, from anti-second magic shields to decent wine. Collector: EX, motherfucker.

Shirou is human. Saber hasn't died. Archer is listed as his natural enemy in the CM.
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>>100760579
Are you seriosly telling me a D agi Iskandar survived yet an A+ Lancelot can't
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>>100761023
Lancelot nuclear bomb is literally a NP tho. Not your regular Nuclear Bomb.
>>
>>100761055
He didn't dodge, he went straight through.
>>
>>100761055

Yes, According to Word of God. Lancelot gets overwhelmed when more than 30 weapons come at once
>>
>>100761010
That's not really a citation of him having a nuclear bomb shield.
>>
>>100761151
According to the F/Z LN and Word of God you mean.
>>
>>100761010
CCC and Zero Gilgamesh have no natural enemies, but FSN GIlgamesh is weak to Archer.

You can chalk this up to either Archer not being around in Zero, or it's just that his more hotblooded incarnated self is weaker in that sense.
>>
>>100761151
According to Word of God Saber couldn't dodge Archer.
>>
>>100761208

I know, that's what i just typed out?

>>100761174

And how exactly do you expect Lancelot to get his hands on a nuclear weapon exactly?
>>
>>100761151
It's literally been proven the narrator is an unreliable source when it comes to events that have not transpired yet, since half the time they end up twisting back around. That's not word of god, that's more like an outside voice saying what is happening at that moment based on his own thoughts, only to go "What's this, the knight of the sword makes what's impossible into what's possible once more by overcoming that absolute law". Whatever you call that, it certainly is not the word of god.
>>
>>100761120
A D-rank NP.
>>
Is Gilgamesh gimped at all in FS/N for not having a proper master?
>>
>>100761151
According to word of god Kuzuki could not have stopped Saber's attack during UBW, but what's this...? It seems the King of Knights attack was stopped as even Caster is baffled by this impossible event.
>>
>>100761349

His physical combat abilities are gimped a little, that's about it
>>
>>100761349
He's more gimped since he's technically an incarnated human, which makes him stupid because his human blood rushes to the surface.

GoB actually doesn't cost that much mana. All it requires is the amount to summon the key.
>>
>>100761349
Not because of the master, I'd say more because he's lost some shit during the previous war. Two NP's in the bottom of the riverbed, Vimana etc.

Also it's possible that he had some shields and armor that broke with the EXCALIBUR rejection + mudbath combo, since he did appear naked.
>>
>>100761523
Iirc, he gets a drop in Magic Resistance and he is shown to rely mainly on his treasures to defend against magecraft, so maybe?
>>
>>100761385
>>100761331

Are you guys seriously arguing this point?
>>
>>100761523
NPs are returned to the vault and repaired one would assume, and by that I mean the first point is confirmed but the second point is assumed since his armor is not dented upon meeting Saber the third time in Fate route among other things. The loss of the weapons used against Caster's beast were no big, but it's confirmed in CCC that he has an NP that calls back all his shit into the vault at any time.
>>
>>100761640
They won't return fixed, or otherwise Gil is even more retarded than previously though for losing against Shirou.

And Gil's armor is probably the same as Saber's.
>>
>>100761609
It's kind of foolish to say "No, this is absolute" in regards to an event that did not actually occur but was at most commented on by the narrator. The same narrator who has been proven to be unreliable in the past as half the shit he says is just there for that sweet turnabout moment, but you remain adamant that "No no, it's for serious this time". I'm not arguing it one way or the other, rather I'm saying nothing that did not in fact happen is absolute. Shit is not an absolute guarantee because you suddenly want to trust what you personally want to believe is "word of god" now despite the same things happening in the past with the exact same result of the narrator being off each time as the event unfolds, it's just the writing style here.

I don't care if he can or can't, but it certainly isn't an absolute fact.
>>
>>100761796
But the author of F/Z is Gen Urobuchi not Nasu?
>>
>>100761884
Nasu co-wrote it, and even Gen admits that Nasu already had it mostly mapped out and written before he got there. The characters were already created, the ideas were set, a lot of it was already there, he just had to breathe life into it.
>>
>>100761796
Point out a instance in F/Z LN where Gen contracts himself and i might start to take you seriously.
>>
>>100761796

You still haven't argued against >>100760609 yet
>>
>>100761977
Half of what happened was mentioned in F/SN, so yeah.

I was impressed by how few retcons there were. The only retcon I found was that in F/SN someone mentioned that every single Master besides Kirei and Kiritsugu was killed in the war, yet in F/Z Waver survives.
>>
>>100762209
Kiritsugu only speaking to Saber only 3 times is another.
>>
>>100762277
Not really a retcon, as they did go out of their way to try to make that work in story. It's just he had one passive aggressive conversation where he talked through Iri as well.
>>
>>100762209
Well it was Kotomine who said that, and maybe he didn't know. After all Assassin information network was already down and Gilgamesh wasn't inclined to tell him.
>>
>>100762349
Fair enough



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